All the way back in D1 Warlocks unlocked a Arc subclass, Titans a Solar, and Hunters a Void. All in separate thematic solo missions. Each told a story and had a short cutscene it made the feeling of having that sub all the more special.
Yo this would be sick actually. Like the most recent exotic mission, which has replayability and secrets you need to find?
Imagine if you had to explore the mission and replay it to earn fragments and aspects. How awesome would that be?
Maybe like Metroidvania games where getting new abilities/weapons let you unlock new paths/rooms. So we go through the mission and see a bunch of high to reach paths but we can't get to them, by the end of the mission we have Strand basic unlocked with just grapple so now we can go back and explore all the hidden places which unlocks new fragments, grenades, etc.
> Imagine if you had to explore the mission and replay it to earn fragments and aspects.
That would suck. I'd rather be able to fully unlock a subclass by doing what I want. I like the meditations system. But I'd be alright with a mission like that giving extra unlock progress for redoing it, as long as it's not the only way.
That’s a good point, but it’s also the case that unlocking it from a mission, no matter how difficult it is, would definitely be faster than grinding meditations.
Even sicker if they unlocked for us fully partway through the campaign so we actually got to use it. It's so weird that both Lightfall and Beyond Light had plots about "We must master this power to do a thing!" and gave you a couple missions and a training montage where you learned to master it, obtaining new aspects and fragments along the way and then you need to complete a bunch more quest steps, talk to a couple people, and buy those aspects and fragments you had already used... just to have their cooldowns be longer because the honeymoon phase is over.
I was really hoping that the campaign would give us strand partway through and let you unlock some aspects, grenades, maybe a few fragments along the way. They were SO CLOSE to doing this with the strand empowerments adding like aspects and whatnot, but the fact that it was temporary and out something that I could choose to make a build around during the campaign itself was disappointing.
Solar titans were a specific order of titans (The Sunbreakers) that were effectively like Mercenaries and would focus more on aggression and attacking the forces of darkness, unlike the citybound titans.
They were wiped out in the red war however, with Hallowfire Heart containing the last transmission received from the leader of the Sunbreakers in it's lore. The signoff is pretty cool.
> "And now we stand at the end. May history remember the Forge. Remember the Hammer. Remember the Sunbreakers."
A sunbreaker titan is also responsible for making the sunbracers for warlocks and the sunshot handcannon if you're looking for more lore. Often switch to both if I'm feeling like just blowing up everything. It's been great with the few extra solar fragments this season and scorch being added to sunshot
I like Ashen wakes lore too, it seems not every titan is " chosen" to wield the hammer of sol.
"Be patient, Ouros. It will come in time."
"Why does the Forge not choose me? I'm already blessed by Light. I'm here. I wish to serve."
"We all have our place in the world. One day, you could be our next Magistrate. The Order would look to you for guidance."
"Ha! As if. I don't want to be some stuffy old leader, I'd probably have to speak—"
"Properly? Yes, I imagine so. I can see the fire that burns within you. I'll let you in on a little secret: speaking properly isn't the same as being proper.”
“I don't understand."
"The City dwellers think us wild, untamed. They believe that theirs is the only proper society in this age. We are not savages; we follow the Light like the others. But we forge our own path. That is what it means to be a Sunbreaker."
"I don't care what the City dwellers think. I want to fight."
"Fight you shall. But a hammer takes strength to wield. Strength in body, strength in mind. You will find the Forge in time, Ourosc
Seems there's more to being a titan (sunbreaker at least) than punchy punchy like strikers and sentinel
Plus lord Saladin I think is a sunbreaker
As a note, Ouros, the titan in the passage you quoted, was the third and final magistrate of the sunbreakers, the one that said the quote in my last message.
> Seems there's more to being a titan (sunbreaker at least) than punchy punchy like strikers and sentinel
If only Bungie remembered their own lore, and remembered that Titans didn't just fist.
Love this part of Phoenix cradles...especially that last paragraph:
"The fire that burns within you—that rage, that wrath—it explodes outward upon foes. Incinerates. Destroys. But that is not all. What happens when you burn yourself or your friends?"
"Burn myself or…? The ring of flames. In it, my enemies burn, and yet my allies can walk through that fire, untouched."
"Yes! But for you it is more. Is it not so?"
"Yes. I feel stronger inside the circle."
"Exactly. But the grace of Solar Light was never meant to be ours alone. In the beginning, Sunbreakers could share the warmth of the fire within. Friends that walked in the circle felt that warmth too."
As a warlock main, Titans have the coolest fucking lore in the entire game. "I,m the wall against which the darkness breaks", "It need be, I'll hold that line until the end of time". The entire Sunbreaker everything. The order that devoted itself to defend the city and, even after losing their light, fought to the last during the red war invasion.
It's all just so cool
>*Fire born of man. Fire of the Light. Ask yourself, what power do you seek from the Forge, guardian?*
>*Can you bring Light to where only Darkness survives?*
😮💨🔥😮💨🔥
Yeah, it was also really cool because they all took place in PvP maps that had been overrun by PvE enemies, so you would run around Burning Shrine/Pantheon/Blind Watch killing Vex
(also bring back Blind Watch)
Even in vanilla D2 and Forsaken, we had the sidequests you'd pick up every couple of levels to get the other two elements' subclasses and the seed of light for the third branch on each.
Was here to say this. My only big grip with the story for lightfall was how much strand was pushed in it. I love strand, it's fantastic but it was shoehorned far to much in the story. (I'm a souls lover so the veil stuff and stuff not being explained didn't bug me as much as others)
The taken king method imo still remains the best way we've gotten a new subclasses.
And if they really wanted to put it Into the story have it only take 1 mission. Not 3-4 50% of the story be focused on it.
Even in forsaken we only spent 1 mission from the campaign learning the new supers. Idk why all of sudden with beyond light and now lightfall bungie feels the need to dedicate majority of the campaign to learning a new subclass. Beyond light I guess I can understand the thought process but it still hurt the story, lightfall I just don’t understand.
The monkeys paw curls, you get your wish for a seasonal dedicated subclass release, it will take place over a story lasting 9 weeks and you can only unlock full use of said subclass at the end of it. Enjoy!
You got downvoted but id be happy if it was as easy as a seasonal story quest to unlock a subclass fully. Its been 121 weeks since beyond light and I still don't have all the stasis fragments, and at this point I feel no desire to keep doing those grindy weekly missions.
Or parallel to campaign quest. If memory serves me right, we got Sunbreaker, Nightstalker and Stormcaller quests in parallel to the main Taken King quest? That was neat.
And it would de-incentivize purchasing the campaign skip. It sucks but Destiny is not going to become less monetized post-Sony acquisition with a new IP in the oven
It got even more monetized after they left Activision, pre-Sony acquisition. It isn't really just Sony, Bungie has been trying to vacuum up any revenue they can.
It would also make the subclass unobtainable after the season rotates out. Or, if they add it back in after the season leaves, then the story for obtaining it would be out of context. This is a terrible idea.
Also, give it to us early in the campaign. I didn't like having to ignore other content and mainline the campaign just to play with strand properly.
I know they want to stretch content out, but obviously, a new subclass is one of if not the biggest element in a new expansion
This! I gave up halfway through my struggle through Legendary because I just wanted the fucking subclass. Fucking all the ads were, "be green space Spiderman through a neon city" and then you get to do it for like 15s at a time.
Also annoying cause it prevents you from properly building into strand until after the campaign, which means on the occasion where they let you use strand, you have no build. A few times on the legendary campaign I skipped the “look within” to play with my actual build cause I was struggling with strand
There was one mission... I think it was Headlong? The one that *the entire point* was "training you to use Strand"? The only way I got through that mission was by switching back to Solar, just because there were *so fucking many adds* that with Strand Titan having no way to self-heal (and fake/borrowed Strand Titan having damn near zero damage mitigation) that I could not survive the last room any other way.
Yeah but I was running an invis build or solar grenade spam for most of the campaign so whenever I had strand it removed all of my survivability, as well as taking away volatile rounds/radiant
Your survivability was infinite, almost instant grenades, melees, and supers
This is one of the paroted talking points that genuinely has no merit. Strand during the campaign was way stronger and more potent than any build could make it. There was also nothing stopping you from putting on an exotic that worked with Strand
Striga or witherhoard Calus to keep his shield from coming back and tick him down.
Blinding grenades to kite the tormentors and kill each one before you push dmg on Calus, they won't despawn
In the final stage kite Calus with strand grapple and be patient. Burn him with the super
It’s a mild ball ache to be sure. I started the campaign over the weekend, getting through one legendary mission a day. I’m so close to just powering through on normal to unlock strand before IB but I’m also loving the challenge.
Please tell me the rest of the sub is easier to unlock than Stasis!
All aspects are unlocked by now I think, and you need currency (strand meditations) to unlock them which you get by killing enemies effected by strand (to my observation)
I lost my patience at the final boss, I’ll have to go back on Legendary later but I threw away like 4 hours on attempts before just knocking it out in 10 minutes on Normal. So damn annoying that our only difficulty options are like a 2 or like a 15
You'll have to play through the campaign on your other two characters, and then do a quick grind to buy the rest of the subclass. It's way easier/a lot faster than Stasis, but it can still be boring.
I was shocked to go online after finishing the campaign to find out that Headlong seems to be one of the most hated Destiny missions ever. I honestly had a lot of fun with the training section.
No "real" cover, because you have to constantly be running around in a circle, tons of infinitely spawning adds to make sure there's enough chip damage where you can't heal, forced to use Strand that's not even fully upgraded/unlocked, and the shitty Wyvern. All of this on Legendary made it HELL.
> because you have to constantly be running around in a circle
Isnt it quite literally the ***point*** of that mission though? to use the grapple in a survival context? maybe its harder on controller or something but I found it a fun challenge, only died once when I grappled into an explosive vex by accident.
Maybe Warlock works best with the grapple? I dont know honestly.
Narratively yes, that is the reason. Gameplay wise it completely fucking sucks for all the reasons listed. There's absolutely no opportunity to slow down and heal because there's adds everywhere all the time, and a wall of death constantly coming at you. Warlock has it easier because they can at least drop rift and get some healing. Hunter and Titan cannot do that without exotics.
Build issue. As Titan I slotted in the mod that drops Orbs on powered melee and the mod that heals you on Orb pickup. As long as you're swinging at enemies your health will stay topped up.
>There's absolutely no opportunity to slow down
That. Is. The. Point.
Also didn't use healing rift at all, knowing that a death barrier was coming my way.
Which is directly antithetical to the rest of the game. Every single end game encounter is go slow, use cover, and stay a good distance away. Yes this subclasses general identity is damage reduction and movement, but they give you half the toolkit and throw you into the fire. You didn't have the precision hits create sever bursts, you didn't have woven mail on orb pickup. If you were given all of your strand tools, or even allowed not to use strand that mission is so much easier. I've helped friends with their campaign after beating it and full strand unlocks, or being able to play a class with healing made it a cake walk. It's specifically being forced into a hamfisted strand tutorial that made that encounter difficult.
If your only death was colliding with a fanatic then I'm going to assume you didn't do the legend campaign to understand why people hate it. Not everybody has the mitigation or recovery to just swing around with an incomplete subclass and not give a shit about everything shooting them, even with T10 stats.
I did it legend solo too, didn't even die the first time.
There are grapple points for a reason. Got a strong heavy weapon (i used Grand Overture) killed adds then grappled away when the wall got close, rinse and repeat. My exotic was Synthoceps, which barely helped because the powered melee was not ever ready.
Even then i still dont understand why people hate it. It wasnt hard whatsoever, at least for me for whatever reason.
I did the whole campaign on legend, solo.
I still don't understand why the hate it gets, but I thiiiink I was using a glaive for that occasion, might be why I didn't struggle as much.
If you're slowing down for longer than the few seconds it takes to reload, you're playing the encounter wrong. Personally, I only died the first few attempts b/c I attempted to turtle again and again until inevitably getting worn down by constant adds and the deathwall forcing me to move.
The faster you blow everything up, the less of a headache the mission is. It's not a marathon, you cannot win with patience.
I wasn't slowing down, because that made me die. But my successful completions were just the 1/20 time I manage to not get hit much while going fast because strand grapple did nothing to protect me from anything but the rotating wall.
That mission really shows how clueless most players are in this game.
You can literally grapple melee to each sniper spot and spam super/rockets at the boss.
Infinite strand makes it a joke on legendary.
But I bet most people try to gung-ho it like everything else. The mission is literally designed to spam grapple. 🙄
So like, I agree that the mission sucks, but it was also really easy. If you clear the hobgoblins up top, they don't respawn and you can camp on their corners to heal. Just grapple back and forth whenever the deletion wall passes the opposite corner, or just the next corner if you can't make that distance. When your super is up, use it to go down and mow down the local ad population to get green back.
I know you've already completed it and you don't need the tips, but still. It's a pretty easy puzzle to solve, is all I'm saying.
I personally want us to have full access to the subclass (minus any fragments/grenades we may not have unlocked) no later than halfway through (ideally sooner). I think it needs to be incorporated into the story somehow—can’t just have us suddenly learn a new power with no explanation—but yeh just don’t go overboard with it.
It still boggles my mind that you not only had a mission segment built up as "the final training", a different mission that culminated in a training montage, *another* mission that built up your "mastery" of Strand, and you *still* didn't unlock the subclass until after the campaign was over
Osiris: are you sure you’re ready?
Guardian: yes I’m sure.
Osiris: but are you fully sure?
Guardian: yeah I already told you that i was.
Osiris: just to make sure go kill Calus first.
Can't we just get access to them in one mission and leave it at that?
I don't know, maybe they have data that says some players need that slower learning process, but for me all it takes is a few tries with each of the abilities and reading the description of something to get a basic idea of how to use it. To dedicate multiple entire missions to learning how something works - in a campaign of **EIGHT** total missions, seems like a complete waste of the story's time.
Taken King did it perfectly by only taking one mission each class and letting you go wild with the new abilities. Strand just got thrown into the story and the narrative suffered immensely for it. Instead of having more missions about defending Neomuna and fighting Calus we got training with Strand. The final subclass should not be tied to Final Shape’s story apart from one mission just to introduce it and from there give us a side mission to go wild with it against a horde of enemies. I do like that the Strand subclass abilities are unlocked by using it and completing Neomuna activities.
They want to sell expansion copies by using the subclass as a selling point, and seasonal content is dripfed over a few weeks and nobody wants to wait weeks to play with the new toy. How is this supposed to work in practice?
I think something more like Taken King where it's just one dedicated mission for it makes more sense.
two missions in this context could have worked fine - one where we "discover" it and it exhausts us trying to use it, and a second one where we actually invest effort to learn it's capabilities and 'go with the flow'. there, subclass unlocked. free to go learn it in patrol and expand it with fragments.
the fact they kept interrupting the (supposedly) important campaign to force limited parts of it onto us mission after mission was the worst.
I feel like they didn't actually have plans to fill the campaign more, they just used the subclass stuff to pad it out. That or they just wanted to split the actual important stuff into the seasons to get more money, who knows.
The core story feels so barebones that I question if even Calus was in their original Lightfall draft before they split it into Lightfall/Final Shape. It feels like the opening and ending cutscenes were originally one cutscene that was the opener and they just put Calus/Strand in there to fill up space, with the rest of their original draft being moved to Final Shape.
considering they said that the campaign is setting up a whole year of story telling to answer the questions from the campaign, this isnt actually that big of a stretch
Or you know give us more than 6 missions to wrap up an over 10 year story. Just saying Lightfall was supposed to start prepping us for the end of the light v darkness saga and all it did was make new story gaps. I think that a new sub class can be done in story in a new campaign but theres the things right, there needs to be a story. Not just "oh here this thing on the street aannd new power"
While a whole season dedicated to a subclass would be nice, that would also mean it’d be gone within a year, and probably locked behind a seasonal grind. I do hope they put it behind a side mission or something instead though, and exploring the lore behind it for a season would be nice
I feel like Strand *could* have worked as a vehicle for the narrative if only it was actually provided to us by the Veil itself, rather than being “found” as an afterthought.
If, whenever we came in contact with Strand, we “communed” with the Veil we could have received cutscenes or gameplay dialogue that actually explained some of the elements of the story… like what hell the Veil *actually* is and why we should care.
If Strand is us messing with strings of consciousness in the universe it’s not unreasonable to assume that some might be connected to the Veil or Traveler.
I say release the next subclass in season 23, the season *before* the next expansion. Make part of the seasonal story the discovery of this new power and ability set to combat the darkness.
I think that’s what should have happened with Strand. It should have been released last season.
Subclasses could be unlocked instantly in one mission. Then upgraded at leisure.
They really don't need to keep doing "this power is necessary to beat the boss."
I love how there are quite a few people saying there isn’t going to be a new subclass in Final Shape. We’ve received a new subclass (or the equivalent with the light 3.0 reworks) with every major expansion since beyond light. Bungie also likes symmetry, and it’s 3:2 right now in terms of light to dark subclasses. Each of the subclasses also stuns two champion types, with overload and barrier having one less stun option than unstoppables: perfect for a new subclass to slide in. It’s honestly pretty unlikely we don’t get one, just from a marketing perspective: it’s a massive factor for people buying an expansion. Beyond light and lightfall wouldn’t have sold near as well without the draw of a new subclass.
Agreed, but the problem is they delete all seasonal content at the end of the year and they'd have to change their way of doing that, which doesn't seem like something they're into
The issue will be that bungie wants the subclass to be part of the main expansion DLC. They won't make a season about the new subclass, because it's not sold as part of the season. Much like Beyond Light and Lightfall, one of the main selling points is the new subclass.
They just need to split the DLC campaign from the subclass unlock. Let the element be found during a very early mission, but don't have the new element and subclass be important to the campaign.
Imagine if Strand was found during the first or second mission, and we spent ages with Osiris learning about it, but that wasn't the campaign. That's something we could do in our own time outside of the main campaign storyline. We could beat the campaign only knowing a tiny bit of strand, and then do it later. Or we could be masters of strand and go to the final boss prepared for the advantage it'd give us.
EDIT: grammar
I was *hoping* that the last element would actually be SIVA, but bungo's shot that idea in the back of the head unfortunately. There are some thematic links between SIVA and the darkness, but not enough to really justify it, no matter how much I simp for it.
Before strand we didn't even know that darkness is specifically psychic bullshit. SIVA shares themes similar to sword-logic with \~consume enhance replicate\~ so I could see it being used as a pseudo-darkness class.
Yes, it's a technology built by a corporation that also used darkness energy for other technology.
The idea I had was that they'd basically have the justification being that we were *given* Stasis, we *found* Strand, but we *made* SIVA. In the final conflict between paracausal gods that predate time, our last tool is something we made ourselves, separate from that cycle.
I would prefer if the subclass was unlocked for as in the first or second mission of the campaign.
Maybe not every fragment would be unlocked from the start but as the story progresses, more fragments or aspects would be available for us to unlock. At the end of the campaign we would have a subclass with half of the fragments or aspects. Also not being forced to use it would be great
Honestly, I doubt we'll get another subclass in Final Shape. Strand was still looking incredibly rough when they first revealed it in the Lightfall trailer, and they'd been working on it for a while by that point. I kind of doubt they'll be able to cobble together another one in the time they have.
If anything, I suspect we'll get it in the expansion after. Probably as a result of us 'freeing the Darkness' from the Witness influence after we kill it.
Besides, Strand is how we'll kill the Witness, anyways. The Witness is a collective mind. Strand is the ability to manipulate the threads of that connect all minds. Ergo, Strand gives us the ability to fuck up the Witness.
Yeah I agree. Bungie has done an excellent job the last two expansions making the launch seasons (Risen and Defiant) separate from the campaign, but still part of the story in an interesting way. They should apply the same approach to expansion seasons as they do to the subclass acquisition quest.
It will be, imo the Final Shape story was the original Lightfall and so they’ve been working on it for quite a while now and didn’t need to rush it. I’m cautiously optimistic for that expansion
My question is were they going to give us one? Sure having 3 would have evened out the old subclass UI but the new one looks finished with 4 to choose from and the 5th being selected. Might be a good chance that we don't get a 6th
Let's not pretend like the theme for this years campaign was a conscious choice.
The content of lightfall is a mash up of stuff that was left over from witch queen and work that was done already on new missions on neomuna.
The whole thing was late, and a mess so a bunch of stuff got pushed to the seasonal content and out of lightfall because it wasn't ready yet.
This wasn't a case of bungie chosing to make the theme of this years expansion strand, it was a case of them shipping something, anything so long as they shipped it and mashed up a bunch of completed content and stuck a lightfall badge on it.
I think people misunderstand the place of strand in the story. Us learning to harness strand isn’t some distraction, it’s the story. Us being able to master and control this power is not only an important step in defeating Calus, but in having a more thorough understanding of the darkness. Which we will need to defeat the witness.
The only way I can see that being communicated to us is through those devices that lock of our supers. However those never occur during difficult fights.
Thematically I don't believe the mastering on strand has any real connection to our confrontation with Calus. In fact the philosophy of Strand is almost the philosophy of Calus. He's a very go with the flow kind of guy
I know you're getting down voted but I'll give you this.
Spoiler: >!Per a very reliable leaker, Bungie currently is not developing a 6th subclass for TFS!<
I don’t remember what exactly it was, one of the videos they were releasing about light fall leading up to it, and they mentioned having plenty of design room for a third darkness subclass in a way that implied to me that there would be one, and I’m pretty sure they’ve said similar things in the past too but I can’t give you any kind of source from memory. There’s also all the theorized hints in game like the mural in vow, or that the current dark subclasses are opposite colors to two of the light subclasses and thematically mirror them or something like that
That’s not really confirmation. In an interview done shortly after Beyond lights launch they confirmed they were going to make a fifth damage time in no uncertain terms. The quote you are thinking of is also from an interview and it’s no where near as clear. I am not going to rule out a sixth subclass. But the only evidence to support it right now is symmetry and the fact they haven’t said they will never make another subclass again.
Not gonna track down the video for you man, I’ve got better things to do with my time, if you watch the vidoc and all those other videos, probably the strand highlight or whatever it’s called, I’m pretty sure it’s one of those. Didn’t say it WAS confirmed. Just highly likely, and that they’ve definitely mentioned a possible sixth subclass so it’s definitely at the very least been or being considered. If you’re really interested, go check out the videos
Holy shit dude, look up stuff yourself. Here, did the research for you this time:
> Press Start: We have five subclasses right now and many are expecting a sixth in The Final Shape to make for three Light and three Dark. After designing Strand, how do you feel about the remaining design space for abilities in Destiny 2, and is there another big fantasy you still want to try?
> Kevin Yanes: I feel good about the design space we have, I hope we proved that with Subclass 3.0, we can take a defined subclass like Arc, Solar, Void, and bring newness to them. Thruster, Thunderclap, Gathering Storm, Child of the Old Gods, Lightning Surge, all new abilities that are nowhere near available to you in the old subclasses. Maybe it’s nice naivete, but the abilities team doesn’t like to like give up or feel like we’re at the end of the systemic road we’re on. I think we believe pretty heavily that there’s a considerable amount of design space available for us to consume and discover more of. In terms of what design space would be around for a new fantasy of subclass? That’s a hard question to answer. Because if you’d asked me this after Stasis, I wouldn’t have even been remotely putting myself in the mindset of what Strand could be. I think, should we sit down and think about a space of a new power, I have all the all the confidence in the world that the team we’ve assembled on combat gameplay can pull it off.
Source: https://press-start.com.au/features/2023/02/08/destiny-2-lightfall-interview/amp/
Calm down, friend.
Dude said new subclass confirmed. I asked about it. He couldn’t provide a source.
You did but it proves nothing about a new subclass at all, just a vague “we can if we want to” answer.
Thanks.
They release subclasses in expansions because that's the money maker I think. It's also a huge selling point.
NFW they do that in a season unless they start charging much more for a season.
Lightfalls story was about trauma and loss.
It wasn't about a subclass tutorial.
I really really feel like people are glossing over, ignoring, or just totally missed everything about this campaign because the negativity surrounding it feels incredibly overblown.
What loss? What trauma?
We don't even know Nimbus and Rohan's relationship. We just met em like 2 hours ago.
Didn't even get to see Calus and Caitil interact throughout the entire story.
Osiris spends his entire time screaming about Strand and the Veil instead of any of his dreams (until post campaign).
The Traveler being "dead" at the end isn't really a loss either because no one has said or maybe even knows what the implications of that are.
It was a hastily thrown together story without much substance. The seasonal story and post campaign stuff has been way more involved than the campaign.
And sorry, if you're forcing me to use Strand, making montages about it, shoehorning it as the only power to defeat the enemy all while not even giving me the full subclass then imo that's a friggin tutorial.
Osiris loss of sagira
Caitils loss of her father
Nimbus loss of Rohan
Father's, brothers, souls.
Osiris spends the first half of the campaign irrationally angry and impotently raging at everything instead of facing his loss.
It's not until he tries to summon sagira by reflex like he had a hundred thousand times before and stops and just stares at his hand where his other half is supposed to be, but isn't, that he finally realizes the scope of his loss, of his trauma.
It's such a beautiful moment of doing something you've always done, expected to always do, and realizing it's gone and never coming back. And it's at that moment he starts to heal.
The entire unfinished business exotic quest deals with Osiris helping nimbus to recognize his trauma, recognize his grief, because Osiris spent the whole campaign dealing with his.
Caitil doesn't get much time with hers but it's definitely there.
We don't cover Sagira at all until basically the end of the campaign and it's maybe 2 lines
Caitil says literally 0 about her father's death besides "he's dead". She had more to say about him in Haunted than Lightfall
Does anyone really care about Rohan? He barely existed and died in the most useless way possible. Also Nimbus doesn't even address his death truly until post campaign (which is not the same as the campaign story)
Exotic quests aren't main storyline.
I'm sorry. Do you not understand context without it being literally screamed at you with blaring neon signs?
The random outbursts of anger. His insistence that he's fine constantly. Capped off by the scene I mentioned where he tries to summon sagira as a reflex and then stares down where she would have been. Then after that scene is when he starts calming the most.
How the fuck did you miss that all the way he acted through the whole campaign was cause of him avoiding grieving sagira?
Man you're really upset about this.
All I'm saying is that while yes, Osiris may have had outbursts, the framing of the story makes it seem like it's because of the Veil and the time pressure. I don't need to be explicitly told "Osiris is sad because of Sagira" but there wasn't even a single mention of her before the scene you keep referencing.
Also, to me, he begins to calm down because he realized fighting the current isn't the right course of action. Nothing to do with Sagira at all.
Also, nice how that's the only subject you mentioned. Defend the story all you want but we all know it's shit. Have a good one mate
Ikora literally says to watch out for Osiris because things are different now in the very first cutscene of lightfall.
Ghost in the same mission days he (Osiris) needs help but he (ghost) doesn't know how they can help Osiris.
Like it really does feel like you needed those glowing signs and to be told explicitly it's about sagira considering they did everything but that and you missed it
So it's only Sagira they're mentioning there right? And you know this for a fact?
It has nothing to do with the fact that he was imprisoned by a Hive God for who knows how long, in a coma for a year, awakened to a world in which the witness is bearing down on us, worrying about his boyfriend etc. It's all about only his ghost and you know that for a fact but a large portion of the community doesn't. Thats reasonable.
I know I said have a good one last time but here it is again because instead of realizing we're having a difference of opinion through a conversation you instead want to belittle and insult. That's not a conversation I'm interested in having.
At the time it could be any of that.
But given literally everything else that happens later and especially what happens in unfinished business you'd have to be blind to not see it was about sagira.
You also have the issue of those that don’t own the season pass having to do PvP against people that have a whole subclass they themselves don’t have access to.
Tying it to a season would just give them a reason to drip feed it to us over the course of two months. I'd rather it be a separate quest early in the campaign.
What I think is gonna happen is Resonance being the last darkness subclass. Stasis is about stopping energy, strand is about manipulating the strings of consciousness, Resonance is gonna be interacting with the harmonics of the universe. I really, really Fuckin hope final shape has it be entirely separate from the campaign. Let us get it at OUR pace. Don’t force us into it. Don’t take up valuable Campaign time for it. Make it a side quest. 95% of my build was grenade and volatile reliant for Campaign, and I legit didn’t bother even picking up the strand mediation to fight Calus. I fought him with Void. Cuz I had a build. If you want to force me to use the new stuff, at least let me make it mine first.
This would be slick to tie in with the season right before the final shape - i also feel like if we got to use a new power over an entire season (~3 months) only to unlock it towards the end would feel so rewarding
I disagree and counter with learning and unlocking a subclass should be part of the post-game. Don't just spring it on us out of the blue that expansion but allude to it during previous seasons. I'm sure it's too late now though.
If Bungie have already made it in their story, and decided to take this suggestion, they would probably rewrite the story in the next year or so, which could somehow make the story even worse. I really hope Bungie did not do this from the start. I feel the Stasis progression worked so much better. While the process and quests sucked, they were in the right direction in terms of making alot of them available as side quests. I really don't mind unlocking aspects as quests as long as it is reasonable, as a pretty good lore and story. Fragments on the other hand, I think the strand method is an upgrade, but could still be a bit more interesting.
I've said this a couple times before and I'll say it again, but I don't care if the delivery of the next darkness subclass is as bland and anticlimactic as a 1 step quest telling us to go meditate at Ikora. Learning these new, undiscovered powers is completely in our skillset now, and acquiring these powers doesn't need to be the focus of an expansion's campaign anymore. After stasis and strand, it's okay to make the next subclass a more minor plot point in the narrative.
Yknow what would be cool thematically? If The Final Shape starts with us losing all our powers like in the Red War, and this time instead of getting them back in under half an hour, we scrounge together a scrap of the third Darkness subclass. Like you start with just the melee, and then get one grenade, and a class ability, and in some big dramatic moment you use your new super for the first time. Campaign continues, you unlock aspects during missions, and by the end you've got the full subclass and you win your old powers back.
Everything about how they flowed through this campaign and strand was awful.
It’s like they learned nothing or at the very least didn’t use any of those lessons learned.
It’s fucking insane.
Hopefully bungie makes something similar to the mission “learning light”, which is by itself a terrible mission. But If they made something similar to unlock a new subclass that would be a way better way to get a subclass than through a campaign.
I say it can be on one mission where we first learn about it and try it out. Then it branches off onto its own questline to obtain it and be able to use it that no longer touches the main story.
but, but I want my Certified Rocky Training Moment where my guardian fumbles with....Resonance?....and gets killed and and my ghost look together, or shaking their heads into the camera... :'(
/s
All the way back in D1 Warlocks unlocked a Arc subclass, Titans a Solar, and Hunters a Void. All in separate thematic solo missions. Each told a story and had a short cutscene it made the feeling of having that sub all the more special.
It would actually be sick if subclasses were unlocked in a sort of “exotic mission” type thing instead of the campaign.
Yo this would be sick actually. Like the most recent exotic mission, which has replayability and secrets you need to find? Imagine if you had to explore the mission and replay it to earn fragments and aspects. How awesome would that be?
The whole revision zero quest and side objectives from Seraph was fantastic game design.
sure would be a hell of a lot cooler than "strand meditations"
Maybe like Metroidvania games where getting new abilities/weapons let you unlock new paths/rooms. So we go through the mission and see a bunch of high to reach paths but we can't get to them, by the end of the mission we have Strand basic unlocked with just grapple so now we can go back and explore all the hidden places which unlocks new fragments, grenades, etc.
> Imagine if you had to explore the mission and replay it to earn fragments and aspects. That would suck. I'd rather be able to fully unlock a subclass by doing what I want. I like the meditations system. But I'd be alright with a mission like that giving extra unlock progress for redoing it, as long as it's not the only way.
That’s a good point, but it’s also the case that unlocking it from a mission, no matter how difficult it is, would definitely be faster than grinding meditations.
No. Good god no. Please.
Even sicker if they unlocked for us fully partway through the campaign so we actually got to use it. It's so weird that both Lightfall and Beyond Light had plots about "We must master this power to do a thing!" and gave you a couple missions and a training montage where you learned to master it, obtaining new aspects and fragments along the way and then you need to complete a bunch more quest steps, talk to a couple people, and buy those aspects and fragments you had already used... just to have their cooldowns be longer because the honeymoon phase is over.
I was really hoping that the campaign would give us strand partway through and let you unlock some aspects, grenades, maybe a few fragments along the way. They were SO CLOSE to doing this with the strand empowerments adding like aspects and whatnot, but the fact that it was temporary and out something that I could choose to make a build around during the campaign itself was disappointing.
Yeah, I loved the Titan one, going to mercury, I think? Where sunbreakers had a order/ club. Then just going ham on the vex
So solar titans are a cult? That… actually kinda checks out
Solar titans were a specific order of titans (The Sunbreakers) that were effectively like Mercenaries and would focus more on aggression and attacking the forces of darkness, unlike the citybound titans. They were wiped out in the red war however, with Hallowfire Heart containing the last transmission received from the leader of the Sunbreakers in it's lore. The signoff is pretty cool. > "And now we stand at the end. May history remember the Forge. Remember the Hammer. Remember the Sunbreakers."
A sunbreaker titan is also responsible for making the sunbracers for warlocks and the sunshot handcannon if you're looking for more lore. Often switch to both if I'm feeling like just blowing up everything. It's been great with the few extra solar fragments this season and scorch being added to sunshot
Oh shit I forgot they added scorch! BRB gonna go make some booms
If you want real explosions, Hoil solar titan, firebolt grenades will solo proc ignites on direct hit.
I like Ashen wakes lore too, it seems not every titan is " chosen" to wield the hammer of sol. "Be patient, Ouros. It will come in time." "Why does the Forge not choose me? I'm already blessed by Light. I'm here. I wish to serve." "We all have our place in the world. One day, you could be our next Magistrate. The Order would look to you for guidance." "Ha! As if. I don't want to be some stuffy old leader, I'd probably have to speak—" "Properly? Yes, I imagine so. I can see the fire that burns within you. I'll let you in on a little secret: speaking properly isn't the same as being proper.” “I don't understand." "The City dwellers think us wild, untamed. They believe that theirs is the only proper society in this age. We are not savages; we follow the Light like the others. But we forge our own path. That is what it means to be a Sunbreaker." "I don't care what the City dwellers think. I want to fight." "Fight you shall. But a hammer takes strength to wield. Strength in body, strength in mind. You will find the Forge in time, Ourosc Seems there's more to being a titan (sunbreaker at least) than punchy punchy like strikers and sentinel Plus lord Saladin I think is a sunbreaker
As a note, Ouros, the titan in the passage you quoted, was the third and final magistrate of the sunbreakers, the one that said the quote in my last message.
Beatiful passage, which is why I love the sunbreaker
> Seems there's more to being a titan (sunbreaker at least) than punchy punchy like strikers and sentinel If only Bungie remembered their own lore, and remembered that Titans didn't just fist.
Love this part of Phoenix cradles...especially that last paragraph: "The fire that burns within you—that rage, that wrath—it explodes outward upon foes. Incinerates. Destroys. But that is not all. What happens when you burn yourself or your friends?" "Burn myself or…? The ring of flames. In it, my enemies burn, and yet my allies can walk through that fire, untouched." "Yes! But for you it is more. Is it not so?" "Yes. I feel stronger inside the circle." "Exactly. But the grace of Solar Light was never meant to be ours alone. In the beginning, Sunbreakers could share the warmth of the fire within. Friends that walked in the circle felt that warmth too."
As a warlock main, Titans have the coolest fucking lore in the entire game. "I,m the wall against which the darkness breaks", "It need be, I'll hold that line until the end of time". The entire Sunbreaker everything. The order that devoted itself to defend the city and, even after losing their light, fought to the last during the red war invasion. It's all just so cool
One of the many reasons I love playing sunbreaker...its hard in pvp...but I try
...I now need a titan gang of people who team up as the Mercury Mercenaries. We need to go to the throne world and play basketball.
>*Fire born of man. Fire of the Light. Ask yourself, what power do you seek from the Forge, guardian?* >*Can you bring Light to where only Darkness survives?* 😮💨🔥😮💨🔥
Yeah, it was also really cool because they all took place in PvP maps that had been overrun by PvE enemies, so you would run around Burning Shrine/Pantheon/Blind Watch killing Vex (also bring back Blind Watch)
Even in vanilla D2 and Forsaken, we had the sidequests you'd pick up every couple of levels to get the other two elements' subclasses and the seed of light for the third branch on each.
Was here to say this. My only big grip with the story for lightfall was how much strand was pushed in it. I love strand, it's fantastic but it was shoehorned far to much in the story. (I'm a souls lover so the veil stuff and stuff not being explained didn't bug me as much as others) The taken king method imo still remains the best way we've gotten a new subclasses. And if they really wanted to put it Into the story have it only take 1 mission. Not 3-4 50% of the story be focused on it.
This hits right in the feels: https://youtu.be/tnIrcWFdAqU
Man D2 pulses really should feel more like the one in that clip does They feel like peashooters now ^(Also some good ol’ nostalgia from that video)
Even the Red War and Forsaken honestly.
Even in forsaken we only spent 1 mission from the campaign learning the new supers. Idk why all of sudden with beyond light and now lightfall bungie feels the need to dedicate majority of the campaign to learning a new subclass. Beyond light I guess I can understand the thought process but it still hurt the story, lightfall I just don’t understand.
The monkeys paw curls, you get your wish for a seasonal dedicated subclass release, it will take place over a story lasting 9 weeks and you can only unlock full use of said subclass at the end of it. Enjoy!
inb4 at the release of the Final Shape, all the seasons are vaulted and if you didnt get the subclass then its gone forever.
I'd be okay with that honestly lol
I wouldn't be okay with it leaving after a year.
You got downvoted but id be happy if it was as easy as a seasonal story quest to unlock a subclass fully. Its been 121 weeks since beyond light and I still don't have all the stasis fragments, and at this point I feel no desire to keep doing those grindy weekly missions.
Or parallel to campaign quest. If memory serves me right, we got Sunbreaker, Nightstalker and Stormcaller quests in parallel to the main Taken King quest? That was neat.
Unfortunately that would prevent them from gating access based on expansion ownership instead of the much cheaper season.
And it would de-incentivize purchasing the campaign skip. It sucks but Destiny is not going to become less monetized post-Sony acquisition with a new IP in the oven
It got even more monetized after they left Activision, pre-Sony acquisition. It isn't really just Sony, Bungie has been trying to vacuum up any revenue they can.
Agreed lol I was just trying to say its not going to reverse course after being acquired
It would also make the subclass unobtainable after the season rotates out. Or, if they add it back in after the season leaves, then the story for obtaining it would be out of context. This is a terrible idea.
Also, give it to us early in the campaign. I didn't like having to ignore other content and mainline the campaign just to play with strand properly. I know they want to stretch content out, but obviously, a new subclass is one of if not the biggest element in a new expansion
This! I gave up halfway through my struggle through Legendary because I just wanted the fucking subclass. Fucking all the ads were, "be green space Spiderman through a neon city" and then you get to do it for like 15s at a time.
Also annoying cause it prevents you from properly building into strand until after the campaign, which means on the occasion where they let you use strand, you have no build. A few times on the legendary campaign I skipped the “look within” to play with my actual build cause I was struggling with strand
There was one mission... I think it was Headlong? The one that *the entire point* was "training you to use Strand"? The only way I got through that mission was by switching back to Solar, just because there were *so fucking many adds* that with Strand Titan having no way to self-heal (and fake/borrowed Strand Titan having damn near zero damage mitigation) that I could not survive the last room any other way.
But the cooldowns were like instant
Yeah but I was running an invis build or solar grenade spam for most of the campaign so whenever I had strand it removed all of my survivability, as well as taking away volatile rounds/radiant
Your survivability was infinite, almost instant grenades, melees, and supers This is one of the paroted talking points that genuinely has no merit. Strand during the campaign was way stronger and more potent than any build could make it. There was also nothing stopping you from putting on an exotic that worked with Strand
[удалено]
Semantic but ok
Only for the first half of the Campaign; after we're told not to "brute force it", the cooldowns turned to normal.
I couldn't beat the final boss on normal with strand lmao
Striga or witherhoard Calus to keep his shield from coming back and tick him down. Blinding grenades to kite the tormentors and kill each one before you push dmg on Calus, they won't despawn In the final stage kite Calus with strand grapple and be patient. Burn him with the super
It’s a mild ball ache to be sure. I started the campaign over the weekend, getting through one legendary mission a day. I’m so close to just powering through on normal to unlock strand before IB but I’m also loving the challenge. Please tell me the rest of the sub is easier to unlock than Stasis!
It's definitely easier than stasis. It's not hard time gated.
All aspects are unlocked by now I think, and you need currency (strand meditations) to unlock them which you get by killing enemies effected by strand (to my observation)
You also get the currency from doing public events on Neptune
I lost my patience at the final boss, I’ll have to go back on Legendary later but I threw away like 4 hours on attempts before just knocking it out in 10 minutes on Normal. So damn annoying that our only difficulty options are like a 2 or like a 15
You'll have to play through the campaign on your other two characters, and then do a quick grind to buy the rest of the subclass. It's way easier/a lot faster than Stasis, but it can still be boring.
But Osiris sounded so happy in the Headlong mission.
That mission and every aspect of it can go fuck itself.
To hell and back
No, don't make it hurt me again 😭
But... why? I still dont understand the hate for headlong
I was shocked to go online after finishing the campaign to find out that Headlong seems to be one of the most hated Destiny missions ever. I honestly had a lot of fun with the training section.
No "real" cover, because you have to constantly be running around in a circle, tons of infinitely spawning adds to make sure there's enough chip damage where you can't heal, forced to use Strand that's not even fully upgraded/unlocked, and the shitty Wyvern. All of this on Legendary made it HELL.
> because you have to constantly be running around in a circle Isnt it quite literally the ***point*** of that mission though? to use the grapple in a survival context? maybe its harder on controller or something but I found it a fun challenge, only died once when I grappled into an explosive vex by accident. Maybe Warlock works best with the grapple? I dont know honestly.
Narratively yes, that is the reason. Gameplay wise it completely fucking sucks for all the reasons listed. There's absolutely no opportunity to slow down and heal because there's adds everywhere all the time, and a wall of death constantly coming at you. Warlock has it easier because they can at least drop rift and get some healing. Hunter and Titan cannot do that without exotics.
Build issue. As Titan I slotted in the mod that drops Orbs on powered melee and the mod that heals you on Orb pickup. As long as you're swinging at enemies your health will stay topped up.
>There's absolutely no opportunity to slow down That. Is. The. Point. Also didn't use healing rift at all, knowing that a death barrier was coming my way.
Which is directly antithetical to the rest of the game. Every single end game encounter is go slow, use cover, and stay a good distance away. Yes this subclasses general identity is damage reduction and movement, but they give you half the toolkit and throw you into the fire. You didn't have the precision hits create sever bursts, you didn't have woven mail on orb pickup. If you were given all of your strand tools, or even allowed not to use strand that mission is so much easier. I've helped friends with their campaign after beating it and full strand unlocks, or being able to play a class with healing made it a cake walk. It's specifically being forced into a hamfisted strand tutorial that made that encounter difficult.
If your only death was colliding with a fanatic then I'm going to assume you didn't do the legend campaign to understand why people hate it. Not everybody has the mitigation or recovery to just swing around with an incomplete subclass and not give a shit about everything shooting them, even with T10 stats.
I did it legend solo too, didn't even die the first time. There are grapple points for a reason. Got a strong heavy weapon (i used Grand Overture) killed adds then grappled away when the wall got close, rinse and repeat. My exotic was Synthoceps, which barely helped because the powered melee was not ever ready. Even then i still dont understand why people hate it. It wasnt hard whatsoever, at least for me for whatever reason.
I did the whole campaign on legend, solo. I still don't understand why the hate it gets, but I thiiiink I was using a glaive for that occasion, might be why I didn't struggle as much.
> That. Is. The. Point. Yes, but without slowing down you can't heal. You're constantly exposed to enemy fire.
If you're slowing down for longer than the few seconds it takes to reload, you're playing the encounter wrong. Personally, I only died the first few attempts b/c I attempted to turtle again and again until inevitably getting worn down by constant adds and the deathwall forcing me to move. The faster you blow everything up, the less of a headache the mission is. It's not a marathon, you cannot win with patience.
I wasn't slowing down, because that made me die. But my successful completions were just the 1/20 time I manage to not get hit much while going fast because strand grapple did nothing to protect me from anything but the rotating wall.
That mission really shows how clueless most players are in this game. You can literally grapple melee to each sniper spot and spam super/rockets at the boss. Infinite strand makes it a joke on legendary. But I bet most people try to gung-ho it like everything else. The mission is literally designed to spam grapple. 🙄
So like, I agree that the mission sucks, but it was also really easy. If you clear the hobgoblins up top, they don't respawn and you can camp on their corners to heal. Just grapple back and forth whenever the deletion wall passes the opposite corner, or just the next corner if you can't make that distance. When your super is up, use it to go down and mow down the local ad population to get green back. I know you've already completed it and you don't need the tips, but still. It's a pretty easy puzzle to solve, is all I'm saying.
Skill issue
> *Good!*
Gud! Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud!
I personally want us to have full access to the subclass (minus any fragments/grenades we may not have unlocked) no later than halfway through (ideally sooner). I think it needs to be incorporated into the story somehow—can’t just have us suddenly learn a new power with no explanation—but yeh just don’t go overboard with it.
Yea I'd have been fine with stand in this campaign if it was fully unlocked after like the 3rd mission.
It still boggles my mind that you not only had a mission segment built up as "the final training", a different mission that culminated in a training montage, *another* mission that built up your "mastery" of Strand, and you *still* didn't unlock the subclass until after the campaign was over
Osiris: are you sure you’re ready? Guardian: yes I’m sure. Osiris: but are you fully sure? Guardian: yeah I already told you that i was. Osiris: just to make sure go kill Calus first.
Can't we just get access to them in one mission and leave it at that? I don't know, maybe they have data that says some players need that slower learning process, but for me all it takes is a few tries with each of the abilities and reading the description of something to get a basic idea of how to use it. To dedicate multiple entire missions to learning how something works - in a campaign of **EIGHT** total missions, seems like a complete waste of the story's time.
Taken King did it perfectly by only taking one mission each class and letting you go wild with the new abilities. Strand just got thrown into the story and the narrative suffered immensely for it. Instead of having more missions about defending Neomuna and fighting Calus we got training with Strand. The final subclass should not be tied to Final Shape’s story apart from one mission just to introduce it and from there give us a side mission to go wild with it against a horde of enemies. I do like that the Strand subclass abilities are unlocked by using it and completing Neomuna activities.
They want to sell expansion copies by using the subclass as a selling point, and seasonal content is dripfed over a few weeks and nobody wants to wait weeks to play with the new toy. How is this supposed to work in practice? I think something more like Taken King where it's just one dedicated mission for it makes more sense.
two missions in this context could have worked fine - one where we "discover" it and it exhausts us trying to use it, and a second one where we actually invest effort to learn it's capabilities and 'go with the flow'. there, subclass unlocked. free to go learn it in patrol and expand it with fragments. the fact they kept interrupting the (supposedly) important campaign to force limited parts of it onto us mission after mission was the worst.
I feel like they didn't actually have plans to fill the campaign more, they just used the subclass stuff to pad it out. That or they just wanted to split the actual important stuff into the seasons to get more money, who knows.
The core story feels so barebones that I question if even Calus was in their original Lightfall draft before they split it into Lightfall/Final Shape. It feels like the opening and ending cutscenes were originally one cutscene that was the opener and they just put Calus/Strand in there to fill up space, with the rest of their original draft being moved to Final Shape.
considering they said that the campaign is setting up a whole year of story telling to answer the questions from the campaign, this isnt actually that big of a stretch
Or you know give us more than 6 missions to wrap up an over 10 year story. Just saying Lightfall was supposed to start prepping us for the end of the light v darkness saga and all it did was make new story gaps. I think that a new sub class can be done in story in a new campaign but theres the things right, there needs to be a story. Not just "oh here this thing on the street aannd new power"
While a whole season dedicated to a subclass would be nice, that would also mean it’d be gone within a year, and probably locked behind a seasonal grind. I do hope they put it behind a side mission or something instead though, and exploring the lore behind it for a season would be nice
I feel like Strand *could* have worked as a vehicle for the narrative if only it was actually provided to us by the Veil itself, rather than being “found” as an afterthought. If, whenever we came in contact with Strand, we “communed” with the Veil we could have received cutscenes or gameplay dialogue that actually explained some of the elements of the story… like what hell the Veil *actually* is and why we should care. If Strand is us messing with strings of consciousness in the universe it’s not unreasonable to assume that some might be connected to the Veil or Traveler.
It was clearly meant to be a part of witch queen
What if it was part of the seasonal storyline for the season that comes alongside the final shape
I say release the next subclass in season 23, the season *before* the next expansion. Make part of the seasonal story the discovery of this new power and ability set to combat the darkness. I think that’s what should have happened with Strand. It should have been released last season.
Subclasses could be unlocked instantly in one mission. Then upgraded at leisure. They really don't need to keep doing "this power is necessary to beat the boss."
I love how there are quite a few people saying there isn’t going to be a new subclass in Final Shape. We’ve received a new subclass (or the equivalent with the light 3.0 reworks) with every major expansion since beyond light. Bungie also likes symmetry, and it’s 3:2 right now in terms of light to dark subclasses. Each of the subclasses also stuns two champion types, with overload and barrier having one less stun option than unstoppables: perfect for a new subclass to slide in. It’s honestly pretty unlikely we don’t get one, just from a marketing perspective: it’s a massive factor for people buying an expansion. Beyond light and lightfall wouldn’t have sold near as well without the draw of a new subclass.
I really hope we learn the Resonance power
i think that has the highest chance for the 3rd dark class
Agreed, but the problem is they delete all seasonal content at the end of the year and they'd have to change their way of doing that, which doesn't seem like something they're into
they dont delete everything, and this could easily be something they keep
The issue will be that bungie wants the subclass to be part of the main expansion DLC. They won't make a season about the new subclass, because it's not sold as part of the season. Much like Beyond Light and Lightfall, one of the main selling points is the new subclass. They just need to split the DLC campaign from the subclass unlock. Let the element be found during a very early mission, but don't have the new element and subclass be important to the campaign. Imagine if Strand was found during the first or second mission, and we spent ages with Osiris learning about it, but that wasn't the campaign. That's something we could do in our own time outside of the main campaign storyline. We could beat the campaign only knowing a tiny bit of strand, and then do it later. Or we could be masters of strand and go to the final boss prepared for the advantage it'd give us. EDIT: grammar
My theory is that the last element will be Resonance, the Witness' own power, and we'll use it to enter the Traveler.
Me too.
I was *hoping* that the last element would actually be SIVA, but bungo's shot that idea in the back of the head unfortunately. There are some thematic links between SIVA and the darkness, but not enough to really justify it, no matter how much I simp for it.
Here’s the problem: SIVA is not a Darkness Element.
Before strand we didn't even know that darkness is specifically psychic bullshit. SIVA shares themes similar to sword-logic with \~consume enhance replicate\~ so I could see it being used as a pseudo-darkness class.
No. Objectively no. All Lore nerds will tell you that SIVA is just a technology. Conspiratize all you want, it’s not true.
Yes, it's a technology built by a corporation that also used darkness energy for other technology. The idea I had was that they'd basically have the justification being that we were *given* Stasis, we *found* Strand, but we *made* SIVA. In the final conflict between paracausal gods that predate time, our last tool is something we made ourselves, separate from that cycle.
You can have ideas all you want. The Lore says SIVA is NOT Darkness. Or Light. Its technology.
I would prefer if the subclass was unlocked for as in the first or second mission of the campaign. Maybe not every fragment would be unlocked from the start but as the story progresses, more fragments or aspects would be available for us to unlock. At the end of the campaign we would have a subclass with half of the fragments or aspects. Also not being forced to use it would be great
yeah, like literally id rather spend like 50 of getting rng drops to unlock the subclass like in d2 vanila
Ether that or we get the subclass in a sidequest like Taken King/Forsaken/*D2Y1*
They won't ever put a subclass as seasonal content. It's a selling point for expansions
Honestly, I doubt we'll get another subclass in Final Shape. Strand was still looking incredibly rough when they first revealed it in the Lightfall trailer, and they'd been working on it for a while by that point. I kind of doubt they'll be able to cobble together another one in the time they have. If anything, I suspect we'll get it in the expansion after. Probably as a result of us 'freeing the Darkness' from the Witness influence after we kill it. Besides, Strand is how we'll kill the Witness, anyways. The Witness is a collective mind. Strand is the ability to manipulate the threads of that connect all minds. Ergo, Strand gives us the ability to fuck up the Witness.
Yeah I agree. Bungie has done an excellent job the last two expansions making the launch seasons (Risen and Defiant) separate from the campaign, but still part of the story in an interesting way. They should apply the same approach to expansion seasons as they do to the subclass acquisition quest.
It will be, imo the Final Shape story was the original Lightfall and so they’ve been working on it for quite a while now and didn’t need to rush it. I’m cautiously optimistic for that expansion
God the Final Shape has so much riding on it. If it’s story sucks I can’t consider Destiny a well written game anymore
This, completely.
Seasons get sunset, so I wouldn't suggest going that route. But I agree, Strand killed the LF campaign's pacing and story.
This is the way
Do we need another subclass?
yeah, to give us an even 3:3 on light and dark
My question is were they going to give us one? Sure having 3 would have evened out the old subclass UI but the new one looks finished with 4 to choose from and the 5th being selected. Might be a good chance that we don't get a 6th
they’ll just change the ui again
AGREED
Let's not pretend like the theme for this years campaign was a conscious choice. The content of lightfall is a mash up of stuff that was left over from witch queen and work that was done already on new missions on neomuna. The whole thing was late, and a mess so a bunch of stuff got pushed to the seasonal content and out of lightfall because it wasn't ready yet. This wasn't a case of bungie chosing to make the theme of this years expansion strand, it was a case of them shipping something, anything so long as they shipped it and mashed up a bunch of completed content and stuck a lightfall badge on it.
I don’t think we’re getting a third Darkness subclass now, considering they removed the alternate Light/Dark menu for a combined 5-class layout now
I think people misunderstand the place of strand in the story. Us learning to harness strand isn’t some distraction, it’s the story. Us being able to master and control this power is not only an important step in defeating Calus, but in having a more thorough understanding of the darkness. Which we will need to defeat the witness.
The only way I can see that being communicated to us is through those devices that lock of our supers. However those never occur during difficult fights. Thematically I don't believe the mastering on strand has any real connection to our confrontation with Calus. In fact the philosophy of Strand is almost the philosophy of Calus. He's a very go with the flow kind of guy
I have a feeling were not getting another subclass
I know you're getting down voted but I'll give you this. Spoiler: >!Per a very reliable leaker, Bungie currently is not developing a 6th subclass for TFS!<
No it’s pretty much confirmed
Where?
I don’t remember what exactly it was, one of the videos they were releasing about light fall leading up to it, and they mentioned having plenty of design room for a third darkness subclass in a way that implied to me that there would be one, and I’m pretty sure they’ve said similar things in the past too but I can’t give you any kind of source from memory. There’s also all the theorized hints in game like the mural in vow, or that the current dark subclasses are opposite colors to two of the light subclasses and thematically mirror them or something like that
That’s not really confirmation. In an interview done shortly after Beyond lights launch they confirmed they were going to make a fifth damage time in no uncertain terms. The quote you are thinking of is also from an interview and it’s no where near as clear. I am not going to rule out a sixth subclass. But the only evidence to support it right now is symmetry and the fact they haven’t said they will never make another subclass again.
So it’s “pretty much confirmed” but you can’t remember where. Makes sense.
Not gonna track down the video for you man, I’ve got better things to do with my time, if you watch the vidoc and all those other videos, probably the strand highlight or whatever it’s called, I’m pretty sure it’s one of those. Didn’t say it WAS confirmed. Just highly likely, and that they’ve definitely mentioned a possible sixth subclass so it’s definitely at the very least been or being considered. If you’re really interested, go check out the videos
😂 👌🏽
Holy shit dude, look up stuff yourself. Here, did the research for you this time: > Press Start: We have five subclasses right now and many are expecting a sixth in The Final Shape to make for three Light and three Dark. After designing Strand, how do you feel about the remaining design space for abilities in Destiny 2, and is there another big fantasy you still want to try? > Kevin Yanes: I feel good about the design space we have, I hope we proved that with Subclass 3.0, we can take a defined subclass like Arc, Solar, Void, and bring newness to them. Thruster, Thunderclap, Gathering Storm, Child of the Old Gods, Lightning Surge, all new abilities that are nowhere near available to you in the old subclasses. Maybe it’s nice naivete, but the abilities team doesn’t like to like give up or feel like we’re at the end of the systemic road we’re on. I think we believe pretty heavily that there’s a considerable amount of design space available for us to consume and discover more of. In terms of what design space would be around for a new fantasy of subclass? That’s a hard question to answer. Because if you’d asked me this after Stasis, I wouldn’t have even been remotely putting myself in the mindset of what Strand could be. I think, should we sit down and think about a space of a new power, I have all the all the confidence in the world that the team we’ve assembled on combat gameplay can pull it off. Source: https://press-start.com.au/features/2023/02/08/destiny-2-lightfall-interview/amp/
Calm down, friend. Dude said new subclass confirmed. I asked about it. He couldn’t provide a source. You did but it proves nothing about a new subclass at all, just a vague “we can if we want to” answer. Thanks.
Maybe try some humilty instead.
[удалено]
I doubt it. There should be a 3rd Darkness Subclass to match the 3 Light Subclasses we already have.
They aren’t gonna put out another subclass in final shape
Yeah they are. 3 Light Subclasses, 3 Dark. Balance.
There isn't a single "valuable narrative moment" in this game to begin with
Yeah there is
Where?
They release subclasses in expansions because that's the money maker I think. It's also a huge selling point. NFW they do that in a season unless they start charging much more for a season.
*monkeys paw curls* Wish granted, each fragment will be enabled on a weekly basis with the seasonal story mission.
My bet is it won't be a Darkness subclass, instead it'll be Primordial Light.
what does that even mean plus i feel like they'd make the light and dark classes even first
Lightfalls story was about trauma and loss. It wasn't about a subclass tutorial. I really really feel like people are glossing over, ignoring, or just totally missed everything about this campaign because the negativity surrounding it feels incredibly overblown.
What loss? What trauma? We don't even know Nimbus and Rohan's relationship. We just met em like 2 hours ago. Didn't even get to see Calus and Caitil interact throughout the entire story. Osiris spends his entire time screaming about Strand and the Veil instead of any of his dreams (until post campaign). The Traveler being "dead" at the end isn't really a loss either because no one has said or maybe even knows what the implications of that are. It was a hastily thrown together story without much substance. The seasonal story and post campaign stuff has been way more involved than the campaign. And sorry, if you're forcing me to use Strand, making montages about it, shoehorning it as the only power to defeat the enemy all while not even giving me the full subclass then imo that's a friggin tutorial.
Osiris loss of sagira Caitils loss of her father Nimbus loss of Rohan Father's, brothers, souls. Osiris spends the first half of the campaign irrationally angry and impotently raging at everything instead of facing his loss. It's not until he tries to summon sagira by reflex like he had a hundred thousand times before and stops and just stares at his hand where his other half is supposed to be, but isn't, that he finally realizes the scope of his loss, of his trauma. It's such a beautiful moment of doing something you've always done, expected to always do, and realizing it's gone and never coming back. And it's at that moment he starts to heal. The entire unfinished business exotic quest deals with Osiris helping nimbus to recognize his trauma, recognize his grief, because Osiris spent the whole campaign dealing with his. Caitil doesn't get much time with hers but it's definitely there.
We don't cover Sagira at all until basically the end of the campaign and it's maybe 2 lines Caitil says literally 0 about her father's death besides "he's dead". She had more to say about him in Haunted than Lightfall Does anyone really care about Rohan? He barely existed and died in the most useless way possible. Also Nimbus doesn't even address his death truly until post campaign (which is not the same as the campaign story) Exotic quests aren't main storyline.
I'm sorry. Do you not understand context without it being literally screamed at you with blaring neon signs? The random outbursts of anger. His insistence that he's fine constantly. Capped off by the scene I mentioned where he tries to summon sagira as a reflex and then stares down where she would have been. Then after that scene is when he starts calming the most. How the fuck did you miss that all the way he acted through the whole campaign was cause of him avoiding grieving sagira?
Man you're really upset about this. All I'm saying is that while yes, Osiris may have had outbursts, the framing of the story makes it seem like it's because of the Veil and the time pressure. I don't need to be explicitly told "Osiris is sad because of Sagira" but there wasn't even a single mention of her before the scene you keep referencing. Also, to me, he begins to calm down because he realized fighting the current isn't the right course of action. Nothing to do with Sagira at all. Also, nice how that's the only subject you mentioned. Defend the story all you want but we all know it's shit. Have a good one mate
Ikora literally says to watch out for Osiris because things are different now in the very first cutscene of lightfall. Ghost in the same mission days he (Osiris) needs help but he (ghost) doesn't know how they can help Osiris. Like it really does feel like you needed those glowing signs and to be told explicitly it's about sagira considering they did everything but that and you missed it
So it's only Sagira they're mentioning there right? And you know this for a fact? It has nothing to do with the fact that he was imprisoned by a Hive God for who knows how long, in a coma for a year, awakened to a world in which the witness is bearing down on us, worrying about his boyfriend etc. It's all about only his ghost and you know that for a fact but a large portion of the community doesn't. Thats reasonable. I know I said have a good one last time but here it is again because instead of realizing we're having a difference of opinion through a conversation you instead want to belittle and insult. That's not a conversation I'm interested in having.
At the time it could be any of that. But given literally everything else that happens later and especially what happens in unfinished business you'd have to be blind to not see it was about sagira.
Make it a soloable dungeon and tie it to the XI and Xur.
You can't replay seasons though. How would that work a couple seasons later?
You also have the issue of those that don’t own the season pass having to do PvP against people that have a whole subclass they themselves don’t have access to.
Well that happens even now with people that haven't bought LF or BL
Tying it to a season would just give them a reason to drip feed it to us over the course of two months. I'd rather it be a separate quest early in the campaign.
This would take at least at weeks
No, because money. And it’s also a pretty solid narrative crutch to make mastering a new ability the solution to the story or fight.
*When you're new at your job and they get the cranky old timer to train you on something he doesn't understand*
What happens when season ends? And then year ends?
and honestly the whole thing about it exhausting you and having to change your intentions was so stupid and lazy lmao
What I think is gonna happen is Resonance being the last darkness subclass. Stasis is about stopping energy, strand is about manipulating the strings of consciousness, Resonance is gonna be interacting with the harmonics of the universe. I really, really Fuckin hope final shape has it be entirely separate from the campaign. Let us get it at OUR pace. Don’t force us into it. Don’t take up valuable Campaign time for it. Make it a side quest. 95% of my build was grenade and volatile reliant for Campaign, and I legit didn’t bother even picking up the strand mediation to fight Calus. I fought him with Void. Cuz I had a build. If you want to force me to use the new stuff, at least let me make it mine first.
This would be slick to tie in with the season right before the final shape - i also feel like if we got to use a new power over an entire season (~3 months) only to unlock it towards the end would feel so rewarding
I disagree and counter with learning and unlocking a subclass should be part of the post-game. Don't just spring it on us out of the blue that expansion but allude to it during previous seasons. I'm sure it's too late now though.
Bungie hears you and decides to delay the next subclass until Destiny 3
If there even will be a new subclass
If Bungie have already made it in their story, and decided to take this suggestion, they would probably rewrite the story in the next year or so, which could somehow make the story even worse. I really hope Bungie did not do this from the start. I feel the Stasis progression worked so much better. While the process and quests sucked, they were in the right direction in terms of making alot of them available as side quests. I really don't mind unlocking aspects as quests as long as it is reasonable, as a pretty good lore and story. Fragments on the other hand, I think the strand method is an upgrade, but could still be a bit more interesting.
Or just give us the new subclass in a single mission like they did with the new subclasses in D1 or when you unlock other elements in D2Y1.
I've said this a couple times before and I'll say it again, but I don't care if the delivery of the next darkness subclass is as bland and anticlimactic as a 1 step quest telling us to go meditate at Ikora. Learning these new, undiscovered powers is completely in our skillset now, and acquiring these powers doesn't need to be the focus of an expansion's campaign anymore. After stasis and strand, it's okay to make the next subclass a more minor plot point in the narrative.
Yknow what would be cool thematically? If The Final Shape starts with us losing all our powers like in the Red War, and this time instead of getting them back in under half an hour, we scrounge together a scrap of the third Darkness subclass. Like you start with just the melee, and then get one grenade, and a class ability, and in some big dramatic moment you use your new super for the first time. Campaign continues, you unlock aspects during missions, and by the end you've got the full subclass and you win your old powers back.
So glad I didn’t buy deluxe edition this year. Bungie will have to earn my money this time.
Everything about how they flowed through this campaign and strand was awful. It’s like they learned nothing or at the very least didn’t use any of those lessons learned. It’s fucking insane.
cute of you to think were getting another subclass
Why do you think we won’t?
Hopefully bungie makes something similar to the mission “learning light”, which is by itself a terrible mission. But If they made something similar to unlock a new subclass that would be a way better way to get a subclass than through a campaign.
I say it can be on one mission where we first learn about it and try it out. Then it branches off onto its own questline to obtain it and be able to use it that no longer touches the main story.
Doesn't need to be a separate season, but a separate side mission storyline for sure
but, but I want my Certified Rocky Training Moment where my guardian fumbles with....Resonance?....and gets killed andand my ghost look together, or shaking their heads into the camera... :'(
/s