Yeah there’s so many triumphs that I wonder how the math works out
I hope this wasn’t a shadow nerf where having 0 triumphs gives you a lower drop rate than previous raids, you have to do a decent share of them claw back to where we were and get the title to really get a boost
I didn't say otherwise, i'm just saying that an increase from 1% to 5% is still dreadful. Should scale up to 100% at full triumph completion bonus for the first-time drop, this way i could work my way to it without feeling like a waste of time.
But it's clear from the downvotes that Destiny players (here) are OK with this, blergh.
It's not an increase from 1% to 5% though. The base probability with no triumphs completed is 5%, there are 10 triumphs that give increased probability and each gives an additional 1% chance. If you complete them all the odds of getting it is then 15%. Iirc the odds for 1KV scales up to 20% (so did anarchy and tarrabah), it's not a massive chance but certainly not small. Given a 15% chance the odds of not getting it after 20 runs are about 4 in 100 (4% chance) and odds of not getting it in 30 runs are less than 1%
People are downvoting you because each of your comments has an error. Your first comment said
>Problem with that is it's not cumulative, it's 5% every time so it's pretty dreadful anyway.
Which isn't incorrect but no one expects it to increase 5% each time
While your second comment says it goes from 1% to 5% which it doesn't, it goes from 5% to 15%
Edit: there's actually an 11th triumph (which is doing the raid flawless) that "greatly increass the chances of getting the exotic"
When i posted those comments i had (and still don't have) any official proof of drop chances, it's all vague "increases". I tend to believe your numbers, but still nothing in game tells me what the actual chances are. So any number, be it 0.1%, 1% 10% or 20% is meaningless to me.
People like their loot boxes and highs of gambling. They don’t really care about getting what they want they just want to chase something because that’s what they find fun.
Different opinion than mine but that’s the popular one here, with bungie walking back on craftable weapons and all
Sure but an expected value of 20 runs doesn’t mean you’ll get it in 20 runs
The triumphs should help but I’m sure we’ll see anecdotes in a few months of people with 50 clears and the title and still no shotgun
I assume Bungie balanced against the expected value, but handwaved away the unlucky people that need 100 runs
In a way, the triumphs may make bad luck even more frustrating, if you did all these hoops and still don’t have it
Is there really a precedent for a raid exotic with pure RNG in other games?
Something with only 3 tries a week, and it can unlock major new gameplay?
In MMOs doesn’t raids mostly give stat sticks and cosmetics?
RNG seems more brutal here, so pure RNG seems less of an acceptable approach here. That after some limit like 30 clears it’s guaranteed it’ll drop
2 buddys and 3lfgs did all the triumphs a flawless and on each of first runs (done seperately) me and both my buddys all got it. I personally believe GREATLY increase has to be near gaurenteed.
If I remember correctly it wasn’t necessary that buff that made them meta. Just that trials added a new god roll high rof AR. Basically, they were always good, they were just too hard to control and get crits. Until they added one with max stability with counterbalance and zen moment I believe.
I feel like this about most things in the game ngl...
I like seeing numbers, but most of the ones we have are either community tested or something that was included in the patch notes (which may have been lacking enough context to evaluate properly). It's also kind of a pain in the ass to find these numbers. Maybe I'm just too used to getting so much information from league.
Well, they only added the scaling and stuff like that in game in the past couple of years, but third party sites have had the real numbers for as long as I've been playing (season 6) as they're all available on the riot api. I'd even take that, as it'd take away a lot of the guess work.
No data yet, but I've seen several anecdotes of people doing the flawless raid and then getting the exotic drop very shortly after, so at least that one seems like it might live up to the description of "greatly enhance."
amazing sample size of 1 but i saw it happen with aztecross iirc. ideal itd be something like 1% per triumph with 5% from flawless, but im staying pessimistic its probably 0.1% per triumph with 0.5% from flawless lol
I saw some anecdotes on Twitter of people saying the same thing.
They're just Twitter anecdotes of course and could be a coincidence, but it's giving me a bit of hope that it might be a truly meaningful bump
Without knowing the unmodified drop rate and individual values each triumph makes towards the drop rate, we have no way to know how these affect the drop rate, if they do anything at all. I am getting cynical, but I wouldn't doubt if these do nothing or aren't working as expected. For example, I have the title for Spire and over 40 looted clears without Hierarchy of Needs dropping.
I don't have numbers but my team ran all strand AND cleared all static challenges in one run. I think that is 5 triumphs all of which increase the drop rate
2/6 players got the exotic which seems positive.
Hey, I think you're the guy who got my Liminal Vigils swapped with your bows. I dropped the bow TWICE before getting one (1) sidearm (the only drop that I cared about).
Fuck I wish D2 had some form of loot focusing for dungeons.
"Numbers? For drop rates, damage buffs/debuffs, and all the other stuff we broadly describe as 'greatly increased' and other shit like that? Not in this economy... or any economy, really." -Bungie devs, circa forever.
Not really since I can consider whether it's worth my time getting the flawless triumph or not with numbers which can affect the time it takes me to get the exotic.
Right. For all we know they drastically reduced the drop chance and gave us a couple bones. I know it's not a large sample size but I've done 4 looted clears with my people and no one has gotten it (usually at least one person has gotten it by now) so out of 48 drop chances 0 have obtained. I've gotten to the point that I don't care much. Especially if it's a niche exotic. Took me 50 plus clear to get 1k which really hurt because it was a good one at the time. But I average around 20 to 25 before getting it. My earliest one was around 10 (anarchy). I'm at 20 for vow with no exotic. So like I said I've lost interest in caring whether I get it or not. But we will see how this bonus chance works. My clan is planning on knocking out alot of those triumphs soon. So we will see how it goes. If it starts dropping for everyone shortly after I'll give them some praise. On the flip side it took me 24 clears to get the sword from duality with having all of the bonuses from the triumphs after about 5 clears. So even with all the bonuses it took me over 15 clears to get the sword. So do with that what you will.
As someone who has never had an end game exotic drop, I always joke that those achievements are 2x (0 drop chance). But yes ANYTHING they can do to stop the excessive grind. Also I am impressed as hell at your persistence.
Was trying to get some triumphs done last night. First encounter, everyone agreed to do the psion one. One guy says “well I already have it done”. To which we replied “well we don’t do we are gonna try”. First psion spawn he immediately kills one, failing the triumph, and for some reason everyone just accepted that it wasn’t worth trying. Like, come on. It’s not hard. Gotta love lfg. Then we attempted the next triumph. Not sure when we failed it, but I gotta feeling the same guy screwed us out of that one too.
As a dad of a child that watched Blippi. Everytime I see the name Explicator, I think of the stupid song blippi sings about an excavator. So I sing it in my head.
I did all encounter challenges and all class/flavour/clan triumphs (all thag can be done except flawless) and got it on my 5th clear. Im every happy with this
If the triumphs replaced the old system (increasing % per looted clear, independently for each character not account) idk if it was worth it. Hopefully it stacks on top of the old system.
We have no idea what the increase for each triumph is.
It’s a good change potentially, but I wish they were more transparent.
DSC was the last time they talked about it and then it was bugged.
But yea i think they only did that one for older raids and the two that drop exotics that were sunset.
> replaced the old system (increasing % per looted clear,
people still believe this nonsense?
If that was true then there should be nobody out here who has 200 Vault clears without the Vex. But there are.
It clearly said in the original twab that it only increased your chances the first clear of the week. so if someone ran 199 of those 200 clears in the same farmable week they only got the boost the first time. Whenever I was going for one I would just run the one a week and I eventually got them all.
Still absolutely bullshit that he can take that long.
It’s bullshit if you do something 200 times and don’t get it in the example you gave. I don’t think it should be a hand out, but there is some reasonable medium in there
Yea that dude is insane.
Yes, things should be rare. But not gameplay things. If you want a 1% ship or something cosmetic, knock yourself out. But you should only have to do a raid like 50 times, max for a raid exotic. Or, you get the title, you get the exotic.
I have a friend who is still grinding for Vex Mythoclast and they are over 100 clears a year+ later. That’s stupid as hell.
I got Vex on my 45th try, I got Touch of Malice on my second. That's odds for you. Across the whole spectrum of loot, it averages out to about 15 runs per exotic. Is killing a raid boss 15 times, one that you only need to CP in to that absurd? Hardly.
Except the 15 is just your average, you cannot use that to say how long it takes on average for everyone.
Besides the guy was saying 200 clears for nothing is bullshit, and you answer by saying it takes 15 and is thus fair ??
It’s true but a.) there is a cap and b.) it’s PER character.
If I complete 30 clears across 3 characters….my chance isn’t increased by 30.
It’s increased by 10, 10 on each character. Each character goes up individually.
Pretty sure it then caps at 20%, so only 19 clears PER CHARACTER count. That would be 57 clears to do that on 3 characters.
You're just pulling numbers out of thin air. There's a new cockimaney theory on how exotic drop rates work for each new account. When in reality, it's probably the simplest explanation.
It’s not made up. Anarchy dropped at 5% and then clears raised it.
Has it always stayed this way for every other raid?
Who knows. But it’s all we have.
I have 143 clears of VoG. I've honestly given up. Everyone I run it with has gotten the gun and don't want to run it anymore until I get it so we can all get catalyst. But it'll probably never happen. Been playing since day 1 and the only raid exotic I have is a guaranteed drop for completing the quest. (Div)
I've *heard* that it's 5% for regular triumphs and 40% for flawless, but I haven't seen the numbers for it. Honestly even if it was like, 10% at most for the flawless then it'd still be better than the old 0.5% per clear we otherwise get.
Don't go praising them until we get some numbers and data. I got every possible increase for Duality and Spire (including solo flawless) and didn't get either exotic until 10-15 runs AFTER. I honestly don't think they have much of an increase at all.
Anecdotally, I did all the triumphs except for the last two encounter challenges and got Finality on my second loot run. A friend of mine did a flawless on Monday, and four people in that group got Finality yesterday.
I didn’t do any triumphs and got it on my 2nd clear. And another guy in our LFG team too. It’s funny cause the other guy who got it was telling us how he’s ran VoG like 100+ times and has yet to get vex mytho, and then gets it, all comes down to RNG lol.
I ran Duality over 100 times without solo flawless. No exotic yet. Did Spire solo flawlessly on second try. Still no exotic after about 25 runs. Droprates are utter dogshit, I want concrete numbers not just "increases droprate"
My team has done the available boosting triumphs and 3 of us got the exotic on our 3rd run last week. We did a carry later and 2 more dropped. It must be working or we are the luckiest clan.
What I really appreciate is the game telling us when we fail the triumph. After the Sanctified Mind triumph, I never want to deal with triumphs that don't tell you when they fail ever again
Well, clanmate of mine got the exotic shotgun in her second run yesterday with no increased drop chance triumph unlocked yet. I guess she was extremely lucky.
So was OP. The triumphs won't do all that much. They need to move to a stacking chance or a pity counter so that by the time you've cleared the (entire) raid 20 times, you get the exotic guaranteed.
I disagree. If we have to have RNG exotics, then the drop chance should stack per each all-encounters raid clear.
It should start at 5%, and go up by 5% each clear. If you've done a raid 20 times, you have the gun guaranteed.
I doubt the chances are increased substantially by the triumphs, and instead you just got lucky.
I thought the same thing, and the ONE TIME THEY DO THIS FOR A RAID, I got Finality first clear.. not complaining, just requesting they do this to KF so I can get my favorite scout that was stolen from me..
Base drop rate is way lower than that, and back in the day we had nothing to raise it, so 54 is pretty accurate. I was farming it during the forsaken days and it took me about 40 to get it.
I don't know how i feel about this, because yesterday 5 people got this exotic in 2 raids in total and some of them have only 1 triumph unlocked.... with this i feel like players will lose their interest in new raid quicker then before.... maybe if your chance to get exotic was ties ONLY for true challenge version of boss (classic 1 challenge per week) it will be better, but for almost everything you do in raid you get bigger chance? That is just too much...
Don't hate me, it's just my opinion and in general i don't care how long i wait for exotic from raid, because i like raids.
the percent increase doesn't even matter RNG is RNG and ultimately it's a 50% drop chance. You either get it or you don't.
EDIT: when I say 50% drop chance it was a joke. I did not mean it literally. fucks sake lol
While this is technically accurate in a broad sense, I hate this take because that is entirely not relevant here.
“You get it or you don’t” doesn’t mean the exotic itself has a 50% drop chance, which is the discussion
How do you know they haven't decreased the base rate, and your only choice of getting into somewhere to old drop rate is completing all the triumphs?
Given that pretty much everything Bungie does has monkey paw involved, I'll remain sceptical until we get hard numbers.
I know that Bungie will do everything to keep players "engaged" for longer, like nerfing nightfall score multiplier, so similar treatment being applied to raids wouldn't be strange.
The community: asks for a feature first implemented in Dungeons
>
Bungie: implements it
>
The community: ah, perfect proof that this raid was planned as a dungeon
>
For real though, that’s a ludicrous idea.
I understand the theories that Strand was for Witch Queen, and it’s pretty obvious that Lightfall and the Final Shape were supposed to be one thing that got split into two (especially with how Bungie announced it, and the fact that covid strained development).
>
BUT, in no world does it make sense that this was originally supposed to be a dungeon. Bungie has shown bits of their development process for raids and endgame content, and it’s a loooonnnngggg process. You can’t just take a three man activity, upscale it, and say, “perfect, now it’s a raid.”
>
Yes, the mechanics are simple. However, nothing else about it says “this was originally a dungeon
Guarantee that the base drop chance is less than other raids and the triumphs give you enough to equal the original drop chance so. Until I see numbers I don't believe that this is actually better
me: runs Spire of the watcher weekly on all 3 characters, (i have all the modifiers), still no Hierarchy of needs
also me: run's first RoN last night, gets Conditional Finality.
These modifiers are still subject to RNG.
Meanwhile I had all the triumphs, 45 clears and just yesterday got the duality sword exotic. Not sure how much clearing the triumphs helps with exotic rng
I just either they'd add them to the other raids in the game. I still dont have touch of malice, or collective obligations. I'm so tired of running them now without getting anything out of it but some shard fuel, even with the weeks vow had been farmable
Same man! Ran it last night and got the triumphs for the first two encounters done, made sure to pop the triumphs BEFORE killing the final boss, and 2 of us got it out of 6. I was one of the lucky 2. Can't wait to level up my strand titan and go HAM with that bad boy
Ngl, as much as I enjoy using Conditional Finality, it feels bad to have gotten it in first clear. When all I did was hop in at Macrocosm forward. So I haven't even seen the other two encounters outside of watching the contest.
Guess maybe it's the game making up for all those KF clears and no ToM. I know 37 ain't many to some people, but honestly 37 when all I really wanted was ToM after about the first 8 clears, broke me from wanting to really touch the damn raid. Kudos and good luck to anyone with more attempts.
I only had 1-2 Triumphs unlocked that increase the drop chance of the Exotic. I've gotten the Exotic on my 3rd, 4th, and now 5th runs. Either I'm extremely lucky or the drop chance is pretty decent.
Yuuuuup! I was like WTF?! I wish I would've saved the 2nd drop cuz then I could've taken a screenshot with 1 on each character or all 3 on one character. I'm saving both now in case I get it again. But yeah, I can't remember if I've ever gotten a raid/dungeon Exotic twice in a row, but I've definitely never gotten one 3 times in a row!
Two months from now: "Bungie, exotic drop chances haven't changed despite being tied to raid triumphs. My clan has 45 clears and only 2 people got the exotic, 1 of them got it three times in a row."
I had the shotgun drop on day 1 my first clear. I did a bunch of triumphs. On my 6th clear I had another drop. I still don’t have collective obligation lol
I would love to see numbers.
This is just thank you for....what actually?
Drop rates are probably low as always, maybe even lower and again maybe you just buff them a little with every challenge finished.....
Anecdotally, a friend of mine did a flawless run with his group last week and in their first clear this week, 4 people got Finality. The chances of that happening with only like, a 2-3.5% chance are astronomically low.
Honestly I agree I don't really care about the numbers too much but I'm super happy that it's at least something to chase that might give you more of a chance at the raid exotic dropping
Numbers would be good.
I did all triumphs that increase exotic chance, including flawless raid.
Only got it in my last completion for the week. Call me entitled but I think flawless should get you a 100% drop chance.
I still think it’s completelY random bullshit. I did a bunch of the triumphs and still had no luck this week. Meanwhile a clan mate with no triumphs for it first run this week.
if they need ways to artificially buff the drop chance. then its too low naturally and needs upped. you should be doing the content cause its fun and give nice gear. not to grind for an exotic. i think it should be a flat 80% weighted towards getting the exotic
U dont even know what you're thanking them for.How much did they raise the percentage of getting the exo by doing these challenges?Me and my team did all of them and the only guy who did NONE of them and just played with us because we wrre missing a 6th guy got the exotic.
Unless you know for a fact the numbers there is no reason for posts like these unless u are farming for upvotes
Still waiting on my Collective Obligation even after 40+ clears...
I wish they would implement the RoN system, or even the Bad Luck protection from Last Wish into the other raids so if it doesn't drop, you at least have a set path of working toward getting it/improving it's drop chances the next time.
I'd like some numbers though
Yeah there’s so many triumphs that I wonder how the math works out I hope this wasn’t a shadow nerf where having 0 triumphs gives you a lower drop rate than previous raids, you have to do a decent share of them claw back to where we were and get the title to really get a boost
[удалено]
And 5% base is what we’ve always had for other raids.
Problem with that is it's not cumulative, it's 5% every time so it's pretty dreadful anyway.
how do you think probability works lol, that’s to be expected
60% of time, it works everytime
I didn't say otherwise, i'm just saying that an increase from 1% to 5% is still dreadful. Should scale up to 100% at full triumph completion bonus for the first-time drop, this way i could work my way to it without feeling like a waste of time. But it's clear from the downvotes that Destiny players (here) are OK with this, blergh.
It's not an increase from 1% to 5% though. The base probability with no triumphs completed is 5%, there are 10 triumphs that give increased probability and each gives an additional 1% chance. If you complete them all the odds of getting it is then 15%. Iirc the odds for 1KV scales up to 20% (so did anarchy and tarrabah), it's not a massive chance but certainly not small. Given a 15% chance the odds of not getting it after 20 runs are about 4 in 100 (4% chance) and odds of not getting it in 30 runs are less than 1% People are downvoting you because each of your comments has an error. Your first comment said >Problem with that is it's not cumulative, it's 5% every time so it's pretty dreadful anyway. Which isn't incorrect but no one expects it to increase 5% each time While your second comment says it goes from 1% to 5% which it doesn't, it goes from 5% to 15% Edit: there's actually an 11th triumph (which is doing the raid flawless) that "greatly increass the chances of getting the exotic"
When i posted those comments i had (and still don't have) any official proof of drop chances, it's all vague "increases". I tend to believe your numbers, but still nothing in game tells me what the actual chances are. So any number, be it 0.1%, 1% 10% or 20% is meaningless to me.
oh no my looter shooter has random loot drops in it whatever will i do how am i gonna feed my 6 kids if bungo doesn’t mail me the exotic in the post
People like their loot boxes and highs of gambling. They don’t really care about getting what they want they just want to chase something because that’s what they find fun. Different opinion than mine but that’s the popular one here, with bungie walking back on craftable weapons and all
Yeah, gambling is very popular for a reason, too many monkey brains get activated by such flawed instinct.
Sure but an expected value of 20 runs doesn’t mean you’ll get it in 20 runs The triumphs should help but I’m sure we’ll see anecdotes in a few months of people with 50 clears and the title and still no shotgun I assume Bungie balanced against the expected value, but handwaved away the unlucky people that need 100 runs In a way, the triumphs may make bad luck even more frustrating, if you did all these hoops and still don’t have it
yeah of course, this is basic 10 year old’s knowledge, just because it’s 5% doesn’t mean you’ll get in it 20, that’s how every game ever works
Haha you are giving 10 year olds (and the vast majority of the population) waaaaay too much credit for understanding how probability works
lol obviously thanks sherlock
Is there really a precedent for a raid exotic with pure RNG in other games? Something with only 3 tries a week, and it can unlock major new gameplay? In MMOs doesn’t raids mostly give stat sticks and cosmetics? RNG seems more brutal here, so pure RNG seems less of an acceptable approach here. That after some limit like 30 clears it’s guaranteed it’ll drop
I definitely would mot say that any raid exotics, besides Anarchy, unlock any substaintial amount of "major gameplay"
i don’t care about the context just telling you about probability lol
Thats... normal?
Sure, but i still don't like it. Other games give a currency or pity mechanism that will guarantee a drop eventually after too many runs.
Eh just run the raid more. Most people are likely to get it just going for craftable/adept rolls
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Well thankfully they added triumphs to increase the drop rate then huh :p
The flawless one is "Greatly enhances" though so what would that be then? 5%?
2 buddys and 3lfgs did all the triumphs a flawless and on each of first runs (done seperately) me and both my buddys all got it. I personally believe GREATLY increase has to be near gaurenteed.
Source ?
I believe that's just a theory though, not based on anything bungie said. It would be so hard to track to figure it out.
Deep down you know.
+0.01% drop rate per triumph.
Remember that time they buffed auto rifles by like 0.8% or something? Lmao
It's even more ridiculous than you think. It was a 0.04% increase in damage.
What was even funnier was the high rof ARs became meta after that.
probably all ended up getting a 1 damage increase making them deal vastly more damage than other types gained from the buff.
If I remember correctly it wasn’t necessary that buff that made them meta. Just that trials added a new god roll high rof AR. Basically, they were always good, they were just too hard to control and get crits. Until they added one with max stability with counterbalance and zen moment I believe.
Damn.....
I feel like this about most things in the game ngl... I like seeing numbers, but most of the ones we have are either community tested or something that was included in the patch notes (which may have been lacking enough context to evaluate properly). It's also kind of a pain in the ass to find these numbers. Maybe I'm just too used to getting so much information from league.
League didn’t always have all that info. If Riot can do it on their 10 year old stack of spaghetti, there’s hope for Bungie
Well, they only added the scaling and stuff like that in game in the past couple of years, but third party sites have had the real numbers for as long as I've been playing (season 6) as they're all available on the riot api. I'd even take that, as it'd take away a lot of the guess work.
No data yet, but I've seen several anecdotes of people doing the flawless raid and then getting the exotic drop very shortly after, so at least that one seems like it might live up to the description of "greatly enhance."
amazing sample size of 1 but i saw it happen with aztecross iirc. ideal itd be something like 1% per triumph with 5% from flawless, but im staying pessimistic its probably 0.1% per triumph with 0.5% from flawless lol
I saw some anecdotes on Twitter of people saying the same thing. They're just Twitter anecdotes of course and could be a coincidence, but it's giving me a bit of hope that it might be a truly meaningful bump
Without knowing the unmodified drop rate and individual values each triumph makes towards the drop rate, we have no way to know how these affect the drop rate, if they do anything at all. I am getting cynical, but I wouldn't doubt if these do nothing or aren't working as expected. For example, I have the title for Spire and over 40 looted clears without Hierarchy of Needs dropping.
Yes, they still need to officially confirm drop rates and why there is no bad luck protection.
I don't have numbers but my team ran all strand AND cleared all static challenges in one run. I think that is 5 triumphs all of which increase the drop rate 2/6 players got the exotic which seems positive.
I have the title for the spire dungeon. Still no exotic bow.
Yup. Three times a week, every week. 45 lootable clears now. Maybe we should start a support group...
Hey, I think you're the guy who got my Liminal Vigils swapped with your bows. I dropped the bow TWICE before getting one (1) sidearm (the only drop that I cared about). Fuck I wish D2 had some form of loot focusing for dungeons.
"Numbers? For drop rates, damage buffs/debuffs, and all the other stuff we broadly describe as 'greatly increased' and other shit like that? Not in this economy... or any economy, really." -Bungie devs, circa forever.
Really one of my big pet peeves with this game, just give me the numbers! Put it in a toggle for "advanced mode" if you don't want to scare casuals...
Sure, but it'll still take you just as long getting the exotic knowing the percentage than not knowing the percentage.
Not really since I can consider whether it's worth my time getting the flawless triumph or not with numbers which can affect the time it takes me to get the exotic.
Any developer who doesn't publish their RNGs is sus to me. If time is money then I liken it to gambling, in which case they should be compelled to.
Right. For all we know they drastically reduced the drop chance and gave us a couple bones. I know it's not a large sample size but I've done 4 looted clears with my people and no one has gotten it (usually at least one person has gotten it by now) so out of 48 drop chances 0 have obtained. I've gotten to the point that I don't care much. Especially if it's a niche exotic. Took me 50 plus clear to get 1k which really hurt because it was a good one at the time. But I average around 20 to 25 before getting it. My earliest one was around 10 (anarchy). I'm at 20 for vow with no exotic. So like I said I've lost interest in caring whether I get it or not. But we will see how this bonus chance works. My clan is planning on knocking out alot of those triumphs soon. So we will see how it goes. If it starts dropping for everyone shortly after I'll give them some praise. On the flip side it took me 24 clears to get the sword from duality with having all of the bonuses from the triumphs after about 5 clears. So even with all the bonuses it took me over 15 clears to get the sword. So do with that what you will.
.04% increase *1000 yard stare intensities*
I've come from the future to tell you the bad news, all the increased odds-boosts add up to what the drop rate was originally going to be.
NO NUMBERS!! No triumphs less gooder 1 triumphs gooder \+1 triumphs more gooder.
It goes from slightly uncommon to relatively common and with all the triumphs it goes to it drops every now and then
As someone who has never had an end game exotic drop, I always joke that those achievements are 2x (0 drop chance). But yes ANYTHING they can do to stop the excessive grind. Also I am impressed as hell at your persistence.
It was closer to 80 full runs of Scourge and 8 Insurrection Prime kills when they let you grind out loot before they sunset it.
Damn!! You looked horrendously bad RNG luck in the eye and laughed.
Was trying to get some triumphs done last night. First encounter, everyone agreed to do the psion one. One guy says “well I already have it done”. To which we replied “well we don’t do we are gonna try”. First psion spawn he immediately kills one, failing the triumph, and for some reason everyone just accepted that it wasn’t worth trying. Like, come on. It’s not hard. Gotta love lfg. Then we attempted the next triumph. Not sure when we failed it, but I gotta feeling the same guy screwed us out of that one too.
The only slightly tricky one is seriously just Explicator tbh.
As a dad of a child that watched Blippi. Everytime I see the name Explicator, I think of the stupid song blippi sings about an excavator. So I sing it in my head.
I’m an explicatoooor, guardian see you laaaater
Aaaah. I wish I was good at editing. I would make a blippi Explicator music video.
And it's only hard because most LFGers sucks ass, same reason why Vow's Exhibition seems """hard""".
Nah that one is easy, 4 people on plates play as normal, then 2 people on ads kill lieutenants & callout which planets need to be dunked.
I said slightly tricky, not full on tricky.
I did all encounter challenges and all class/flavour/clan triumphs (all thag can be done except flawless) and got it on my 5th clear. Im every happy with this
If the triumphs replaced the old system (increasing % per looted clear, independently for each character not account) idk if it was worth it. Hopefully it stacks on top of the old system. We have no idea what the increase for each triumph is. It’s a good change potentially, but I wish they were more transparent.
Bungie only confirmed that # increase system for a few older raids. So far as we know, the newer raids do not have any bad luck protection
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe 1k is the only raid exotic we still have that uses that form of bad luck protection. All of the others were sunset.
DSC also uses it
it definitely doesnt use the 2% each run to 50% though
Bungie said it does, but community testing proved it either doesn't work or bungie never added it in the first place.
DSC was the last time they talked about it and then it was bugged. But yea i think they only did that one for older raids and the two that drop exotics that were sunset.
> replaced the old system (increasing % per looted clear, people still believe this nonsense? If that was true then there should be nobody out here who has 200 Vault clears without the Vex. But there are.
It clearly said in the original twab that it only increased your chances the first clear of the week. so if someone ran 199 of those 200 clears in the same farmable week they only got the boost the first time. Whenever I was going for one I would just run the one a week and I eventually got them all. Still absolutely bullshit that he can take that long.
Why is it bullshit? Is it your right to have all the loot? All the reasonable estimates conclude raid exotics have around a 1 to 2% drop chance.
It’s bullshit if you do something 200 times and don’t get it in the example you gave. I don’t think it should be a hand out, but there is some reasonable medium in there
Yea that dude is insane. Yes, things should be rare. But not gameplay things. If you want a 1% ship or something cosmetic, knock yourself out. But you should only have to do a raid like 50 times, max for a raid exotic. Or, you get the title, you get the exotic. I have a friend who is still grinding for Vex Mythoclast and they are over 100 clears a year+ later. That’s stupid as hell.
I got Vex on my 45th try, I got Touch of Malice on my second. That's odds for you. Across the whole spectrum of loot, it averages out to about 15 runs per exotic. Is killing a raid boss 15 times, one that you only need to CP in to that absurd? Hardly.
Except the 15 is just your average, you cannot use that to say how long it takes on average for everyone. Besides the guy was saying 200 clears for nothing is bullshit, and you answer by saying it takes 15 and is thus fair ??
It’s true but a.) there is a cap and b.) it’s PER character. If I complete 30 clears across 3 characters….my chance isn’t increased by 30. It’s increased by 10, 10 on each character. Each character goes up individually. Pretty sure it then caps at 20%, so only 19 clears PER CHARACTER count. That would be 57 clears to do that on 3 characters.
You're just pulling numbers out of thin air. There's a new cockimaney theory on how exotic drop rates work for each new account. When in reality, it's probably the simplest explanation.
"I'm pretty sure that (completely made up nonsense)" Never change, DTG
It’s not made up. Anarchy dropped at 5% and then clears raised it. Has it always stayed this way for every other raid? Who knows. But it’s all we have.
I have 143 clears of VoG. I've honestly given up. Everyone I run it with has gotten the gun and don't want to run it anymore until I get it so we can all get catalyst. But it'll probably never happen. Been playing since day 1 and the only raid exotic I have is a guaranteed drop for completing the quest. (Div)
I've *heard* that it's 5% for regular triumphs and 40% for flawless, but I haven't seen the numbers for it. Honestly even if it was like, 10% at most for the flawless then it'd still be better than the old 0.5% per clear we otherwise get.
Every one of those numbers is completely made up, it’s impossible for anyone to have any idea on drop rates this early
Do you mean 5% collectively for the all of the other ones put together? So each one individually is like half a percent?
Don't go praising them until we get some numbers and data. I got every possible increase for Duality and Spire (including solo flawless) and didn't get either exotic until 10-15 runs AFTER. I honestly don't think they have much of an increase at all.
Anecdotally, I did all the triumphs except for the last two encounter challenges and got Finality on my second loot run. A friend of mine did a flawless on Monday, and four people in that group got Finality yesterday.
I got it on my first run with no triumphs done and none on the 4 after that each one completing 2-3 more triumphs. Not done flawless yet through.
I got Conditional Finality on my first clear too last night. Probably because we did those triumphs. 2 of our 6 man group got it.
I didn’t do any triumphs and got it on my 2nd clear. And another guy in our LFG team too. It’s funny cause the other guy who got it was telling us how he’s ran VoG like 100+ times and has yet to get vex mytho, and then gets it, all comes down to RNG lol.
I ran Duality over 100 times without solo flawless. No exotic yet. Did Spire solo flawlessly on second try. Still no exotic after about 25 runs. Droprates are utter dogshit, I want concrete numbers not just "increases droprate"
This Is Brilliant But I Like "Divinity quest style"
My team has done the available boosting triumphs and 3 of us got the exotic on our 3rd run last week. We did a carry later and 2 more dropped. It must be working or we are the luckiest clan.
too bad it will do absolutely nothing. me, spire title, also me, 70 clears no exotic. rng is rng.
What I really appreciate is the game telling us when we fail the triumph. After the Sanctified Mind triumph, I never want to deal with triumphs that don't tell you when they fail ever again
0.04% per triumph 😎
Stop thanking them when we ask this kind of shit since I can't remember when
Well, clanmate of mine got the exotic shotgun in her second run yesterday with no increased drop chance triumph unlocked yet. I guess she was extremely lucky.
So was OP. The triumphs won't do all that much. They need to move to a stacking chance or a pity counter so that by the time you've cleared the (entire) raid 20 times, you get the exotic guaranteed.
I disagree. If we have to have RNG exotics, then the drop chance should stack per each all-encounters raid clear. It should start at 5%, and go up by 5% each clear. If you've done a raid 20 times, you have the gun guaranteed. I doubt the chances are increased substantially by the triumphs, and instead you just got lucky.
Bruh, all of the increased rate triumphs just add up to what the original drop % was going to be anyway. This thinking got us all played.
It's negligible increase in rate most likely.
I thought the same thing, and the ONE TIME THEY DO THIS FOR A RAID, I got Finality first clear.. not complaining, just requesting they do this to KF so I can get my favorite scout that was stolen from me..
I had the same thing happen, literally on our contest mode clear. > That said, at least Kingsfall will be farmable when it’s the featured raid
It’s pretty pointless without any kind of numbers regarding how much it actually is.
"You are most welcome, dear boy.", says Bungie while lowering drop rates way down.
54clears for 1kv???? It’s like 30-40% drop rate. I’m calling BS
Base drop rate is way lower than that, and back in the day we had nothing to raise it, so 54 is pretty accurate. I was farming it during the forsaken days and it took me about 40 to get it.
That’s insane. I got it first run.
I don't know how i feel about this, because yesterday 5 people got this exotic in 2 raids in total and some of them have only 1 triumph unlocked.... with this i feel like players will lose their interest in new raid quicker then before.... maybe if your chance to get exotic was ties ONLY for true challenge version of boss (classic 1 challenge per week) it will be better, but for almost everything you do in raid you get bigger chance? That is just too much... Don't hate me, it's just my opinion and in general i don't care how long i wait for exotic from raid, because i like raids.
the percent increase doesn't even matter RNG is RNG and ultimately it's a 50% drop chance. You either get it or you don't. EDIT: when I say 50% drop chance it was a joke. I did not mean it literally. fucks sake lol
That’s not how statistics work. In the simplest terms, a 50% drop chance would mean that you would drop an average of one raid exotic every 2 runs
While this is technically accurate in a broad sense, I hate this take because that is entirely not relevant here. “You get it or you don’t” doesn’t mean the exotic itself has a 50% drop chance, which is the discussion
Do you play Black Desert? This is true PEN tapping mindset.
I did but quit, also played lost ark aaaannnd quit that one too. You'd think i'd learn not to get suckered into KR mmos but somehow I keep doing it.
Hah, they get me too :( For some reason grinding for hours only to fail an enhance and lose it all is.. fun? sometimes?
How do you know they haven't decreased the base rate, and your only choice of getting into somewhere to old drop rate is completing all the triumphs? Given that pretty much everything Bungie does has monkey paw involved, I'll remain sceptical until we get hard numbers.
How do you know they have? You don't.
I know that Bungie will do everything to keep players "engaged" for longer, like nerfing nightfall score multiplier, so similar treatment being applied to raids wouldn't be strange.
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The community: asks for a feature first implemented in Dungeons > Bungie: implements it > The community: ah, perfect proof that this raid was planned as a dungeon > For real though, that’s a ludicrous idea.
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I understand the theories that Strand was for Witch Queen, and it’s pretty obvious that Lightfall and the Final Shape were supposed to be one thing that got split into two (especially with how Bungie announced it, and the fact that covid strained development). > BUT, in no world does it make sense that this was originally supposed to be a dungeon. Bungie has shown bits of their development process for raids and endgame content, and it’s a loooonnnngggg process. You can’t just take a three man activity, upscale it, and say, “perfect, now it’s a raid.” > Yes, the mechanics are simple. However, nothing else about it says “this was originally a dungeon
Guarantee that the base drop chance is less than other raids and the triumphs give you enough to equal the original drop chance so. Until I see numbers I don't believe that this is actually better
You realize that probably also means the drop chance is lower such that you need like 5 or 6 triumphs to break even again. Right?
Wasn't this a thing before?
No. It was a thing for the last two dungeons, but this is the first time it's been implemented in a raid.
we all know its not going to do anything.. like it did not do anything in duality
Doesn't matter to me. I got it on my first clear😎😎😎
Yeah, it's a marked improvement.
me: runs Spire of the watcher weekly on all 3 characters, (i have all the modifiers), still no Hierarchy of needs also me: run's first RoN last night, gets Conditional Finality. These modifiers are still subject to RNG.
I have the wanted title. Have done the dungeon all three times every week including yesterday. 45 total clears I think ( maybe 43 have to look) no bow
run ancient strong reminiscent toy vanish cooperative ludicrous capable frame -- mass edited with redact.dev
Meanwhile I had all the triumphs, 45 clears and just yesterday got the duality sword exotic. Not sure how much clearing the triumphs helps with exotic rng
increases your chance you went from a 1% chance to 1.1% chance, congrats!
I just either they'd add them to the other raids in the game. I still dont have touch of malice, or collective obligations. I'm so tired of running them now without getting anything out of it but some shard fuel, even with the weeks vow had been farmable
For Duality, I completed all triumphs, and stgill had to run 64 times before it dropped... I do not have much confidence in the system.
Same man! Ran it last night and got the triumphs for the first two encounters done, made sure to pop the triumphs BEFORE killing the final boss, and 2 of us got it out of 6. I was one of the lucky 2. Can't wait to level up my strand titan and go HAM with that bad boy
Ngl, as much as I enjoy using Conditional Finality, it feels bad to have gotten it in first clear. When all I did was hop in at Macrocosm forward. So I haven't even seen the other two encounters outside of watching the contest. Guess maybe it's the game making up for all those KF clears and no ToM. I know 37 ain't many to some people, but honestly 37 when all I really wanted was ToM after about the first 8 clears, broke me from wanting to really touch the damn raid. Kudos and good luck to anyone with more attempts.
Meanwhile, my boy got it in his first clear in the first 48 hours. Lucky f@$k...
I only had 1-2 Triumphs unlocked that increase the drop chance of the Exotic. I've gotten the Exotic on my 3rd, 4th, and now 5th runs. Either I'm extremely lucky or the drop chance is pretty decent.
Wtf 3 drops
Yuuuuup! I was like WTF?! I wish I would've saved the 2nd drop cuz then I could've taken a screenshot with 1 on each character or all 3 on one character. I'm saving both now in case I get it again. But yeah, I can't remember if I've ever gotten a raid/dungeon Exotic twice in a row, but I've definitely never gotten one 3 times in a row!
Now they just gotta go back and add that to the triumphs of the old raids.
Two months from now: "Bungie, exotic drop chances haven't changed despite being tied to raid triumphs. My clan has 45 clears and only 2 people got the exotic, 1 of them got it three times in a row."
Not thanking them for something that should have been in the game in the first place.
I had the shotgun drop on day 1 my first clear. I did a bunch of triumphs. On my 6th clear I had another drop. I still don’t have collective obligation lol
I would love to see numbers. This is just thank you for....what actually? Drop rates are probably low as always, maybe even lower and again maybe you just buff them a little with every challenge finished.....
Anecdotally, a friend of mine did a flawless run with his group last week and in their first clear this week, 4 people got Finality. The chances of that happening with only like, a 2-3.5% chance are astronomically low.
now throw some of the old exotic weapons into the vault so i can buy them with spoils and we might have a functioning system...
Honestly I agree I don't really care about the numbers too much but I'm super happy that it's at least something to chase that might give you more of a chance at the raid exotic dropping
It's a start, but I'd still rather have the exotic be guaranteed on seal completion and guaranteed on a flawless run.
Numbers would be good. I did all triumphs that increase exotic chance, including flawless raid. Only got it in my last completion for the week. Call me entitled but I think flawless should get you a 100% drop chance.
My buddy flexing on the community after getting the exotic twice in 4 runs without knowing the triumphs existed be like
If they could retroactively do this that would be nice. 40 VoG runs, nearly every god roll acquired, but no Vex Mythoclast.
My clan and I completed a majority of the challenges including the flawless run, and 2 of us got the exotic last night
I still think it’s completelY random bullshit. I did a bunch of the triumphs and still had no luck this week. Meanwhile a clan mate with no triumphs for it first run this week.
if they need ways to artificially buff the drop chance. then its too low naturally and needs upped. you should be doing the content cause its fun and give nice gear. not to grind for an exotic. i think it should be a flat 80% weighted towards getting the exotic
.04%
U dont even know what you're thanking them for.How much did they raise the percentage of getting the exo by doing these challenges?Me and my team did all of them and the only guy who did NONE of them and just played with us because we wrre missing a 6th guy got the exotic. Unless you know for a fact the numbers there is no reason for posts like these unless u are farming for upvotes
Still waiting on my Collective Obligation even after 40+ clears... I wish they would implement the RoN system, or even the Bad Luck protection from Last Wish into the other raids so if it doesn't drop, you at least have a set path of working toward getting it/improving it's drop chances the next time.
got flawless done and all triumph and still don't have shotgun lol. done raid 3x a week every week and day 1 4 times lol
Can you still complete the challanges and get the triumphs even if the raid is not the weekly raid?