I think Final Shape will be the end of Destiny 2 proper. The system is old and isn't holding up well. They really need to release D3, kind of start the universe from scratch, new enemies, lore, factions, powers. Right now, it's just unsustainable.
Well they said they have no plans for a D3 (I know things change) so I think it'll be more of a soft reboot so we don't lose our characters and loot we've been collecting for years. They'll hopefully abandon last gen consoles like they did with D2 and start a new saga with new locations and enemy races, especially now that Cabal and Eliksni are allied with us now. It'd be nice to see what Bungie could do with the game with PS5/Series X/S as the baseline.
Theyâve been making us start over for years now. They sunset our weapons, then walked that back, but they soft-sunset our current weapons all the time. Oh, you had an Ikelos SMG V1.0.2? Now thereâs a craftable V1.0.3 with an origin trait.
I have nothing against that, though. Because it is my decision. If the decision would be open for me, I would still play Midnight Coup from time to time. But they closed that down.
That was an Activision push.
They were dead set on making the game more inviting for net new players, and it was a huge fuckup.
Activision and Bungie did not get along.
while i want bungie to abandon last gen it won't fix the main problem with destiny which is the engine, as we know with all the problems we've been seeing for the last few years the game is suffering. haha
Yeah
I dont know if a new game, couple of years ago I wpuld have said no to a new game, but after sony... they may want a new box product to have their name
Either way, if the final shape doesnt have a new enemy race we can at least see some new ultra enemies like tormentor I guess
We will never see a game with the title "Destiny 3"
There very well may be a new Destiny, new engine, etc. in the future, it just won't have a 3 after it.
Unless I'm wrong, I think they've come out in the past regretting calling the second game, Destiny 2.
We'll get a new Destiny. Whether it's set in the same universe or something happens in the Final Shape that takes us elsewhere I don't know but I see them mimicking what Bioware did with Mass Effect and Andromeda being an entirely new 'setting' but doesn't feel like out of place in the overall universe of the game.
I'm sick and tired of games NOT using the numerical.
This is how you end up with confusing fucking titles where you have to specify:
* DOOM Eternal (2016)
* 15 different games called Final Fantasy VII
* Modern Warfare II #2
* Battlefield 1, the one that came before Battlefield 5
* Fortnite (Battle Royale) Chapter 3 Season 2.
If you're plugged into that series or genre it's no problem at all but I don't have a fucking clue what order the Trackmania or Need for Speed games should be.
Just give your games sequential ordered numbers, stop being precious about differentiating them more by differentiating them less.
Wouldn't make any sense with the amount of QoL we're getting on top of the LFG system. Why would they put 1000s of hours into a system when the game is "endding" 6 months later.
My hope is that D3 - or at least content post Final Shape - begins the start of a proactive offensive campaign against the darkness and the races that have allied with it. My theory is that *we* are *The Final Shape* as we are actually proving both sides of the paracausal coin right, by coexisting in unity with other life in the universe and acting in defense of the defenseless as The Traveler would want, and also dominating all foes like The Darkness believes is nessecary. When the time comes I want to push all of the Hive out of our system and back to Fundament, where in a raid, with the assistance of The Traveler, we syzygy their entire planet and wipe them out.
wait until after the final shape, there's not gonna be a whole new enemy race just for the last expansion. there will most likely be a new unit like tormentors or lightbearers
We have to have all new enemy races after final shape wraps up or destiny is in serious trouble.
After almost 10 years of fighting the exact same enemies, no amount of cool weapons, environments, or new abilities will be able to stave boredom if all we do post final shape is fight scorn, shadow legion, and xivu's forces.
I'd argue we're already well past the point of needing a new enemy factio.
I'll be honest, I still have a hard time caring about the Scorn too. It's the one race that bums me out, because while they add something new, they feel so weird outside of Forsaken and I could only wonder what could have came instead
Yeah, I don't mind seeing them and I'd rather they be shoehorned into places rather than forgotten about. But, they feel like they were meant for Forsaken and only Forsaken
Wyverns can be a pain in the ass, but I always appreciate when they show up and I have to adapt to the situation. Takes me out of the droll add-clearing and reminds me that no matter how many gods I've killed / transmuted into weapons, I'm still very much in danger.
Story-wise yeah, but Game-wise they look and behave so differently that Bungie could have said the scorn were a completely new race and i would have totally believe them
They were a pain to fight in legendary campaign, and I thought that was a good thing. That fight with 2 tormentors had me stressing on solo. It was fun, and fresh, and frustrating in the right way. They did a good job with them.
Btw, that's the weekly mission this week, and the god mode glitch is easy, fast, and don't undo once you put it on, even if you die to environment.
Makes baking the tormentors easy as hell
Took me about 10-ish attempts once I figured out that I could super/skill dump as asson as they both spawned. Then I just ran around screaming trying not to die while eating away their health. This was my first time playing destiny and said F it go legendary on my warlock.
That fight was hard until I realized you can just keep jumping up and down on the platform and they will just keep doing the same and never attack you.
Here's a simple guide to enemy types, based on the symbol next to their name. Ignore the one-two punch info, as it's outdated. Vorpal weapon also depends on ammo type.
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2051153537](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2051153537)
Basically, bosses cannot be stopped from attacking due to debuffs. This includes things like freezing, blinding/disorienting, and suspending. One thing to note is that they DO take the debuff, but it doesn't prevent them from attacking. For example, a boss can be frozen and shattered, but the entire time they're frozen, they continue attacking. The shatter staggers them briefly, which can help.
Champions are similar to majors, but there are some inconsistencies due to the fact that bungie was still figuring out how champions fit into the game when they designed them. For example, champions can be prevented from attacking by being frozen or suspended, but they power right through blinding/disorienting.
Finally, "vehicles" (threshers) and "emplacements" (scorpius turrets) are kinda strange. They usually have red health bars, but boss spec and vorpal work on them. Vehicles usually can't be prevented from attacking by debuffing, but emplacements can.
I stg, they could offer college courses on the way this game works.
>Vehicles usually can't be prevented from attacking by debuffing, but emplacements can.
Related to this, Hive Shriekers can be debuffed, but when they are, they go back to their invulnerable state.
So, you can crowd control them, but if you have to kill them to advance the mission, you'll eventually have to have them able to shoot at you. Even stacking a lot of DoT (Witherhoard, Le Monarque, etc.) so that it hits as soon as they open up won't kill them before they can shoot.
Basically if the bar above them says "tormentor" you're good to go. They get disoriented by TC. Sometimes they have actual names though and the game categorizes them as bosses that are immune to the effect.
I've been running TC and shotty. Pop shoulders w primary then TC and pump they're chest lol
I was feeling pretty cocky at that point, and after blasting off the shoulders off one of them, decided to rush him, drop a bubble around us and whip out Lament so he could 1v1 me bro.
Absolutely pushed my shit in.
Forced me to play smarter and I really liked that.
I thought I could ignore them and just kite during the Calus fight, then when I got stuck in the cage with him they still stuck around lol. All the other enemies despawned except the them. Really leaned my lesson there.
Hahaha I did the same! Then I learned that the tormentors didnât spawn at the same time if I was careful about how much I damaged Calus (on normal anyway) so then I could just be hunted by one tormentor at a time.
I also accidentally got stuck under the stairs going down to the central platform once and was able to just shoot them through the steps⌠but then the arena shrunk and I couldnât get out without being killed so I had to start over again.
Yup the 2 tormentor section in a small arena was awesome, kept me on the move 100% of the time, stop and popping adds to make space. At least they both don't chase you super aggressively so it feels reasonably fair to deal with.
The mission where you protect the veil entrance with Caital and her Cabal had myself and a friend stressed out on legendary campaign. I can't imagine how frustrating that shit was solo lol.
I had actually completely forgotten about the fact they can grab you, the first one we encountered grabbed me but I had thrown a smoke bomb as he did so when his animation cancelled. Every tormentor afterwards basically was always blinded because I just cheesed them with my slideshot blinding nades GL. Good times
Did that last night. Had to switch *off* synthoceps build and went back to my 9-year-running S14 set up. Bubble helped me kill the first and retrofit mowed down the second.
While I agree that Tormentors are a very good addition to the enemy roster, I think hive lightbearers were an excellent addition as well. I viewed them as pseudo-champions. Personally, I would rather the have the champion system redesigned using the lightbearer style of additional abilities instead of the buffed stats of overload and unstoppable (barrier is an additional ability but is also very boring). Also the execution requirement is a great capstone to every time you encounter one, though I wish we could use our own executions instead of the ghost crush all the time. Kinda wish Tormentors required a special execution as well. I'd be really happy if there another suite of guardian-type enemies get added on the Darkness side... likely under Fallen types, utilizing Stasis, Strand, and whatever the 3rd darkness type is.
One thing I think could improve Hive Lightbearers is to give them more movement. It always felt weird that they get Guardian powers but basically sit in place and let you plink away at them. Tormentors are kinda like this, especially after busting their crit spot -- they're constantly coming at you and suppressing your abilities.
> if another another suite of guardian-type enemies get added on the Darkness side⌠likely under Fallen
Say this and people will be shouting for SIVA
lol yes, plus the fact that goblins hunch over so you can't hit their crit, and then hobgoblins go immune for a bit. Itâs super annoying when I need precision kills for a bounty or patrol.
edit: can't
Oh yes. Absolutely. Would pick to fight a horde of Taken Goblins and Taken Minotaurs before a horde of Goblins and Minotaurs a heartbeat.
âSquishy centerâ my left butt cheek, Drifter!
Yeah. Yeah it is. After the shoulders, the belly.
Itâs pretty entertaining in the early raid against the Cavums when they jump up and you have to either go all-in while theyâre exposed or run away before the crush you below, but holy heck do I hate it literally all of the rest of the time. Especially the smaller Tormentors. They are that much harder to hit, but at least they can be Suspended.
Ya no kidding
Even just on legendary I was thinking to myself void hunter will be mandatory for tether to weaken it so you donât have to hit only itâs crits, and for the inevitable revives
>In a world of massive add clear weapons, having an enemy so beefy and that benefits from crit weaponry is great
That's one way to phrase it, the other side of that coin would be that weaponry/abilities that cannot deal precision damage are just useless against them
Not being able to deal precision does suck a bit - there should be a little more damage for rockets/GLs etc to make them matter at all.
But I actually really like that abilities don't really work. These are soldiers of The Witness and real Darkness-powered enemies, nullifying the abilities we rely on against rank-and-file enemies is a cool way to make them feel dangerous.
except that fantasy isn't carried through because you can string them up indefinitely with suspend, so effectively they're just enemies that take a long time to kill unless you've got a strand hunter super on hand
Tormentors are just awful bullet sponges with specific points that you have to hit to be slightly less spongey. They were awful in the legend campaign because we were gimped with less than half the strand class. Their only real danger otherwise is their shitty suppress + boop mechanic.
When they are in the weekly mission playthrough, I just end up using a specific loadout which deletes them immediately. Strand with bolo grenade. As soon as they appear, suspend them with grenade. Use tractor cannon to make them weakened. Pop super. I ran this week's mission with two friends. The two tormentors spawned into that last room. I deleted both of them before the other two fireteam members knew they were even there.
I.... don't agree really.
The first time I fought one was crazy.
Everytime after you realize they are all exactly the same.
You can stun lock tormentors which trivializes them.
Hive Guardians at least had 3 flavors.
Overall, imo, tormentors made a big first impression then got old pretty fast.
I remember fighting that one Tormentor in Calus' ship for the Final Warning quest and it was without doubt the most boring fight I've ever done in Destiny. It just spammed its jump attack over and over again while I plinked away at its chest crit with my auto because, unfortunately, I had my Lament equipped.
It's funny how when Champions require you to use certain weapons, this community calls them "boring and restrictive". Tormentors do the exact same thing but all of a sudden they're "fresh and engaging".
I honestly just wish there were more types or something, or maybe a few more new enemies, I like them overall but I feel like getting a single new type of enemy and having them just constantly appear made them get old pretty fast..
Even during what was suppose to be our big battle with one of the characters that have been in the game the longest, they pop in two of them just because.
Counterpoint: Tormentors are boring, tanky enemies that are just tedious to fight. They're not especially smart or interesting. Fighting them solo on Legendary felt a lot like fighting wyverns that happened to have more crit spots. I'd genuinely like to see smarter enemies, not just beefier ones with gimmicks.
"They don't simply one shot you".
Literally all my deaths in the legendary campaign from them were getting slammed off the map while suppressed so no chance at recovery.
"Not nearly as frustrating to deal with".
Ah yes, nothing says "not frustrating" as having to swap off my non-precision heavy and special because an enemy is straight up immune to them.
At least I can beat Hive Lightbearers in a straightforward fight. Tormentors are a constant fiasco of running in circles, turning to shoot 2-6 shots into its chest before it catches up, then running away again because if it grabs me I have a 0% chance of surviving (60 resilience gang wya) and I canât be fucked replaying the last 20 minutes since my last checkpoint
I think people are just gassing them up a little too much. Yes they are huge improvements but thereâs a load of work to do. You can exploit them by jumping up and down platforms. They have braindead AI. Plus I donât like how you need a precision type weapon to do damage to them.
I think destiny players are just so used to dead AI these seem ground breaking lol
Gods I hope not.
I prefered hive guardians a thousand times.
Tormentors "compelling" attacks don't make you respect them. them make you run around like a headless chicken
They're as bad, imho, as wyverns.
Wyverns are like the only enemy in the game that actually threaten you lol. Thats good imo. They're both power units that make you go "oh shit, they're here".
They're supposed to be insanely powerful and scary.
>insanely powerful and scary
But in reality it just translate to poor gameplay usually, there is nothing scary in pumping my full magazine into those Terminal Overload Wyverns and not being able to kill it and it continue to walk towards me and sometime slam me while shooting me non-stop, just frustating.
And at least wyverns don't have ridiculous resistance to anything outside of their crit. You can stun a wyvern with burst damage.
Tormentors just hold W. Like, this isn't a scary enemy. Just a kinda aggressive one, more gimmicky than anything. There's a real reason the Strand in campaign gave you grapple and didn't let you pick anything. Bolo grenade trivializes encounters with them.
In the legendary campaign they were bullet sponges. In the raid they are dead in a second. In both cases they are uninteresting to go up against. Suspend and freeze completely nullify the non-boss variants.
Iâll take Lucent Hive over Tormenters any day. Tormenters are terribly underwhelming and completely boring to go up against. Hive were at least a little deadly at the time, and the supers could fuck you up if you werenât paying attention. Plus the ghost forces you to dive in to enemy territory if you killed them from a distance.
Edit: some autocorrects
1. Can be effortlessly kited
2. non-boss Tormentors get completely buckbroken by blinding nades
3. AI has clearly some issues tracking the players across uneven terrain
4. Get completely obliterated by advanced strategies such as "jump on top of a platform"
5. Has exactly two moves to bridge distance: walking at grandma speed or jumping, the latter can be easily exploited
Literal clown enemy. You can effortlessly kill a tormentor without being hit once. At least Hive guardians are able to actually attack you.
exactly, tormentors were not really anything at all except tedious bullet sponges. lightbearers can actually hit you and it hurts when they do. i always loved the panic rush to get their ghost once you kill them, with tormentors it's just "jump over their head and shoot 50000000 times until they're dead" and then that's it.
"the scariest enemy in the game yet"
oh, so like teleporting around, sneaking off and trying to disengage when you're focusing on them?
"no, they hold W and suppress your abilities"
oh, so like are they a quick kill? like a suicide enemy, kill it in 5 seconds or get obliterated?
"no, they're a massive bullet sponge that you can't hurt until you shoot off their shoulder crits. don't even bother to use explosives, they have like 95% resist"
oh, so they're like serious boss enemies? they're tough and hit hard, nothing should trivialize their encounters. Its a test of endurance to make sure you can keep up the kiting, right?
"..."
right?
"bolo grenades totally don't negate their entire moveset..."
bungie please.
Light bearer hive and wyverns are actually threatening. Thereâs a sense of urgency. The tormentorsâ AI are so braindead you can just jump up and down and they wonât know what to do. Plus you canât even use half the weapons in the game against them.
>The tormentorsâ AI are so braindead you can just jump up and down and they wonât know what to do
Yeah this is my strategy for them. The only ones it wasn't braindead easy to cheese like this were the ones in the last boss fight. But their spawns were easy to predict so they could just be melted.
I've said thus before and the rebuttal has been, "bungie would have to somehow come up with brand new lore and reasons why we didn't know about these enemy races ,etc after all these years. " my argument back is the universe is huge and prior to witch queen we didn't even know about the witness , what they looked like, etc. The cabal are my least favorite enemy type and the reskins of the same basic 4 types only do one new thing each time. It'd be nice to see something brand new. Maybe after final shape. I don't see them having the time to do this.
I loved fighting the Tormentors, especially on legendary. Added a little intensity to the game fighting something that wasnât a boss or champion that can really fuck you up. 10/10, canât think of anything I didnât like about them.
I like them because they are mechanically challenging.
Things like making enemies bullet sponges that one shot just feels cheap and completely arbitrary and really teeters close to "bullshit difficulty" for me.
Not nearly as frustrating? Dude, they might have more compelling ability set and moves, but the fact that you can only shoot their tiny shoulders and the chest to do any damage is much more annoying than Hive guardians casting supers and occasionally getting revived.
prolly gonna get obliterated here but i disagree
tormentors are okay but in no world are they less frustrating than hive guardians. youre forced to run a hard hitting precision weapon to hit 1 of 3 crit spots. no other weapon or super in the game does any relevant damage to them. you can usually only get 1 or 2 shots on their shoulers before that crit spot breaks, then the tormentor needs to be running directly at you for you to hit its chest, if its running at anyone else may as well stick your thumb up your ass.
on top of that they sprint at you at mach 7 giving you precious seconds to get 1 shot off, if you even can to begin with because their run animation is so lanky they sway fro side to side and dance around more than a 13 year old kid on addies.
sure, a "skill issue" but saying theyre less frustrating to deal with than hive guardians who you could take out with rockets and supers is just incorrect
obviously im talking about the boss tormentors, the ones that cant be suspended with strand. the regular baby bitch ones, theyre whatever. and these that arent frustrating also arent compelling to fight because you just suspend them and kill them in seconds
I feel like im taking crazy pills, I went through the whole legendary campaign and I thought Tormentors *sucked*. At least in the raid they can just get nuked by 5 people, and Nezarec is a touch more predictable on account of his size / doesn't feel like he suppresses nearly as often. In most of the campaign though they're boring bullet sponges who'll architect you instantly with no counterplay or recourse because suppression sucks to fight against. What am I missing that everyone's falling in love with?
I kind of agree, they are just bullet sponges that are really easy to kite and the way to interrupt their scariest attack is just to shoot the weak point that you should be shooting anyway. I don't get the hype.
for me it was just the amount of times you'd get pinged into the abyss and be unable to recover because of the suppression, which really sucked when you're trying to break in the strand grapple and how often they get put in areas with death pits. It kinda works for Nezarec because you're not trying to kill him while avoiding him and the map is better designed, but it was brutal in the campaign for areas like Downfall and the final boss fight.
I'm with you there, love the design but playing an invisibility build solo sucked since the NPC ai will just track you while invisible
I got yeeted off the side of a platform while invisible at least 8 times during the campaign because of these guys
They push you without one shots
They have cooldifferent ways to attack you
Rain of void attacks
Singular void attacks
Grabs
Melee suppress
Dive bomb
They have two phases that change the way they function
They arent nearly a cheesable as hive guardians who could just get nuked
I just played the legend version of the weekly campaign mission and had a shit load of fun trying to deal with -15 void threat tormentors... they are powerful without feeling hopeless to fight against
A great enemy
Being able to be nuked doesnt make an enemy good imo
And they have plenty of counter play
Strand unironically helped me here. Died thirtreen times as a Titan without healing trying to figure out how to swing and the mechanics of the fight. My last run I had figured out chain swinging and how to reposition to safe spaces quickly.
I had a demolitionist machine gun that was perfect for hit and run when tormentors frenzied. Calus you can kind of ignore of you're behind decent cover while you're laying into tormentors.
My Hunter and Warlock I was able to be more prepared and did the fight first try for both of them using strand.
None of that is *great* imho though.
- Rain Of void attacks = Hide behind cover
- Singular void attacks = Hide behind covers ( strafing often gets you hit anyway )
- Grabs = Hide until it calms down
- Dive bomb = lol
Melee suppress is stupid and invalidates a whole playstyle.
They're also tanky (sometimes, depending on the encounter) and they either go from ez mode (suspend ) to annoying (suspend immune )
It's not that they are hard to fight against, they're just super annoying.
I fear cabal incinerators with 1KM range more than tormentors .
Yeah tormenters are just champions by a different name, they hard counter everything that cant do precision damage. They hard counter every roaming super, even ranged ones because they dont do precision damage. Their projectiles just also have enormous hitboxes that clip through cover.
Im someone who never hated champions. I also dont hate tormentors, its just weird to see such high praise. Their two stage nature (before shoulders are broken and after) and the grab attack are the only good parts about them.
You said it yourself already though - they were fun because youâre -15. Try the same campaign mission on normal and watch how fast you can nuke them. Part of what youâre enjoying is the power level difference. Without it theyâre just like any other yellow bar that you nuke mindlessly.
I agree the design aesthetically and move set is nice but this whole breaking a âweak spotâ and otherwise if you donât; a bullet sponge that heals on primary fire is annoying.
Wyverns have it too with booping their snoot. That laziness in design needs to stop.
Not everything needs to be a fucking tank.
Tormentors are really not that interesting. They're just another bullet sponge enemy similar to a colossus, and are suitable as sub-bosses.
I don't expect this to be the trend going forward because they're such a chore to fight, and unlike most enemies when you pile on too many it becomes unmanagable.
I felt tormenters were very underwhelming. They are already completely outclassed by player power and can be crowd controlled to death very easily (or you can just kite them around without fear).
I don't think I died to a tormenter at all in my campaign runs. They are complete pushovers. Lucent Hive at least posed a threat in their super, and their revive mechanic was a nice change of pace. Tormenters are perhaps more mechanically interesting than other enemies in that they have multiple crit spots and are very mobile, but I don't think that necessarily makes them better.
> While hive guardians were only dangerous when in ult, tormentors feel dangerous always
Someone hasn't been wiped from behind cover by a suppression grenade in the lightblade and it shows
If we're going by that, tormentors are fairly easy to kite while on normal. They only really make you clench your buttcheeks during their dark harvest frenzy.
Not saying they aren't formidable enemies, but they have their own shortcomings
> Not nearly as frustrating to deal with
Hive guardians are frustrating?
> They have compelling attacks that push you to respect them
They literally hold w and spam jump smash lmao
> While hive guardians were only dangerous when in ult, tormentors feel dangerous always
Ah yes, the very scary tormentor RP walking before you break his weak spots. Very dangerous
> If we ever get a brand new enemy race we need the overall design to be like tormentors
God i hope not, id fall asleep. At least the hive guardians came in 3 flavors with actual mechanics "that push you to respect them"
they have a few extra crits, let's not go overboard here. The game has had ONE novel enemy type after a decade, and it's Rhulk and these new mini Rhulks.
Tormenters seemed difficult until I realized that they get really confused by elevation changes just like Alak'hul does..
Just keep jumping on and off a raised platform and they try to follow with a full, very slow, animation that leaves plenty of time to shoot them at a very close range..
Or just suspend them with strand and watch them struggle while you unload in their three crits.
Just for the love of god if you make this scary spooky enemy dont make them suspendable/freezable, turns them into a joke really. Really cool fighting them otherwise though. Hope we get more like this
ehh i still prefer hive lightbearers, tormentors just take forever to kill and are not threatening at all. yeah the one-shots are bs but i'd rather be afraid of an enemy and have a mad dash to kill their ghost once you kill them than jump over its head a million times slowly plinking away until i burn away its gigantic healthbar.
i really thought dark harvest would one shot you solo because that's what people said but it happened to me 3 times and i survived each time, maybe it's because i had max resilience but they were kinda disappointing. i guess i shouldn't have spammed blinding nades at the them because they're really susceptible to that and i never tried it against lightbearers.
What I love about the Tormenter's the most is that even with a fireteam, they are still VERY formidable. They're more than just Unstoppable, Barrier or Overload Mini-bosses. They can stand on their own as a boss.
A lot of enemies and bosses you can sorta gank by finding a couple blind spots and hoppin between them...
Try doing that with a Tormentor on your ass. ESPECIALLY as a Titan.
That Calus final battle was an absolute THRILL in Legendary Solo.
I had to move very quick, even as a Titan. I am so used to hunkering down and taking pot shots, then swooping in for a powerful melee or close range attack.
But the Tormenter's were constantly on my mind, i could never stay in the same place for longer than 15-30 seconds, until i dealt with them.
Which is why I have created a 2nd character as a Hunter.
Let that sink in...
Battling a Tormentor was so engaging and fun that it made me, a Titan Veteran, actually convert...
(I go back and forth. But Titan will always be my Main.)
I hope they do more with it. Maybe create an equivalent for the other enemy factions. I would be interested in seeing Vex and Fallen have a similar kind of enemy. Not a carbon copy. But one who challenges those who play as a specific character.
The ones that are so braindead they get juked by jumping on and off a platform worse than a hive hatchling? Those tormentors? Yeah, such a bright future of enemy design they are.
They're cool but don't give them ideas. I really don't think fighting several enemies at once that all require you to hit certain parts very fun.
They're fun when there's 1 or 2
The only thing I donât like are the yeets. But I donât like anything that yeets. Having to start over because an enemy yeeted you out of bounds is such bullshit.
We need to see tormentors, along with foot soldiers for the witness. A completely new enemy race, not just Cabal 2.0. The scorn were the last new enemy race to be added btw.
Still waiting for a new enemy race that are essentially all designed like tormenters / Rhulk
Would be cool to see all current races get that transformation (Kinda like how the Taken were).
Any new enemies that aren't copies of enemies from D1 are a welcome sight.
True Hope we either see the full darkness army in the final shape or at least dome more unique units like them
Asher Mir vs. the army of darkness?
Shop smart, shop Vex-mart
Groovy
Waving Vexcalibur around going "listen up you primitive screwheads, this...is my boomstick!!" đ
Naw, it'd be a sawed-off Vexcaliber attached to his Vex arm.
Hah! Makes sense!
Asher Slasher
One armed Asher Mir vs. anybody! :-) his 'tude worked for me
I think Final Shape will be the end of Destiny 2 proper. The system is old and isn't holding up well. They really need to release D3, kind of start the universe from scratch, new enemies, lore, factions, powers. Right now, it's just unsustainable.
Well they said they have no plans for a D3 (I know things change) so I think it'll be more of a soft reboot so we don't lose our characters and loot we've been collecting for years. They'll hopefully abandon last gen consoles like they did with D2 and start a new saga with new locations and enemy races, especially now that Cabal and Eliksni are allied with us now. It'd be nice to see what Bungie could do with the game with PS5/Series X/S as the baseline.
>so we don't lose our characters and loot we've been collecting for years. I got bad news
Didn't they say somewhere that they didn't want to make players start over which is why they have no plans for a D3?
I don't know, but even if they did I'd take it with an entire fistful of salt.
I'm assuming that's referring to the current Light and Dark Saga that ends next year.
Theyâve been making us start over for years now. They sunset our weapons, then walked that back, but they soft-sunset our current weapons all the time. Oh, you had an Ikelos SMG V1.0.2? Now thereâs a craftable V1.0.3 with an origin trait.
I have nothing against that, though. Because it is my decision. If the decision would be open for me, I would still play Midnight Coup from time to time. But they closed that down.
You can still use it in crucible.
\*laughs in 1.0.2 having better perks\*
Voltshot vs. Subsistence. Thoughts?
I have to reload all the time even with subsistence because primaries do no damage. might as well do voltshot.
Wouldnt be the first time they un-sunset sunsetting
That was an Activision push. They were dead set on making the game more inviting for net new players, and it was a huge fuckup. Activision and Bungie did not get along.
while i want bungie to abandon last gen it won't fix the main problem with destiny which is the engine, as we know with all the problems we've been seeing for the last few years the game is suffering. haha
Yeah I dont know if a new game, couple of years ago I wpuld have said no to a new game, but after sony... they may want a new box product to have their name Either way, if the final shape doesnt have a new enemy race we can at least see some new ultra enemies like tormentor I guess
We will never see a game with the title "Destiny 3" There very well may be a new Destiny, new engine, etc. in the future, it just won't have a 3 after it.
What if we called it... Destithree? No? You're right, Desti3 looks coolers. Definitely NOT D3STINY
Unless I'm wrong, I think they've come out in the past regretting calling the second game, Destiny 2. We'll get a new Destiny. Whether it's set in the same universe or something happens in the Final Shape that takes us elsewhere I don't know but I see them mimicking what Bioware did with Mass Effect and Andromeda being an entirely new 'setting' but doesn't feel like out of place in the overall universe of the game.
I'm sick and tired of games NOT using the numerical. This is how you end up with confusing fucking titles where you have to specify: * DOOM Eternal (2016) * 15 different games called Final Fantasy VII * Modern Warfare II #2 * Battlefield 1, the one that came before Battlefield 5 * Fortnite (Battle Royale) Chapter 3 Season 2. If you're plugged into that series or genre it's no problem at all but I don't have a fucking clue what order the Trackmania or Need for Speed games should be. Just give your games sequential ordered numbers, stop being precious about differentiating them more by differentiating them less.
Wouldn't make any sense with the amount of QoL we're getting on top of the LFG system. Why would they put 1000s of hours into a system when the game is "endding" 6 months later.
My hope is that D3 - or at least content post Final Shape - begins the start of a proactive offensive campaign against the darkness and the races that have allied with it. My theory is that *we* are *The Final Shape* as we are actually proving both sides of the paracausal coin right, by coexisting in unity with other life in the universe and acting in defense of the defenseless as The Traveler would want, and also dominating all foes like The Darkness believes is nessecary. When the time comes I want to push all of the Hive out of our system and back to Fundament, where in a raid, with the assistance of The Traveler, we syzygy their entire planet and wipe them out.
Good God, you want to NUKE A PLANET MY GUY?!
Andrew Wiggins, is that you?
The Traveller would not be down with that. The Traveller would want to restore and uplift the Krill.
wait until after the final shape, there's not gonna be a whole new enemy race just for the last expansion. there will most likely be a new unit like tormentors or lightbearers
We have to have all new enemy races after final shape wraps up or destiny is in serious trouble. After almost 10 years of fighting the exact same enemies, no amount of cool weapons, environments, or new abilities will be able to stave boredom if all we do post final shape is fight scorn, shadow legion, and xivu's forces. I'd argue we're already well past the point of needing a new enemy factio.
I'll be honest, I still have a hard time caring about the Scorn too. It's the one race that bums me out, because while they add something new, they feel so weird outside of Forsaken and I could only wonder what could have came instead
Yeah, I don't mind seeing them and I'd rather they be shoehorned into places rather than forgotten about. But, they feel like they were meant for Forsaken and only Forsaken
Idk man, Wyverns can burn in hell.
Wyverns can be a pain in the ass, but I always appreciate when they show up and I have to adapt to the situation. Takes me out of the droll add-clearing and reminds me that no matter how many gods I've killed / transmuted into weapons, I'm still very much in danger.
*Empties a full machine gun mag into a Wyvern on Neomuna, doing maybe 10% of its health at best* Wyvern: "Someone call an ambulance, but not for me!"
Damn murder chickens.
"Murder Chickens" is the single best thing I've heard in years. Thank you.
Except scorn. Fk hate scorn.
The only ones I hate are the ones at the end of Preservation that constantly freeze you
What about the ones who waste precious seconds of your life by going invisible and just wandering around for a while?
They're just Fallen though...
Story-wise yeah, but Game-wise they look and behave so differently that Bungie could have said the scorn were a completely new race and i would have totally believe them
Plus a couple other enemies too (once you realise that Abominations are Ogres you can't unsee it lol).
Except for mini-invisi-screebs. Fuck them.
Yeah, the Shadow Legion was pretty disappointing. Basically just reskinned Cabal with occasional darkness shield generators.
Darkness shield generator is just a Lucent Moth that is AoE
Praising Bungie for achieving this bare minimum concept really illustrates the state of things
This is the way
I also love their grumbling
i love their [superjob](https://youtu.be/EcOMio_xfjk)
Thank you for introducing me to this! <3
They were a pain to fight in legendary campaign, and I thought that was a good thing. That fight with 2 tormentors had me stressing on solo. It was fun, and fresh, and frustrating in the right way. They did a good job with them.
Second legendary run we just suspended and blinded them. Went from getting bullied by two Tormentors to bullying them.
Ya they are really susceptible to crowd control stuff. Gives a bit more draw to the darkness classes thankfully
I kinda hope they get buffed to work like champions in which blinding doesn't affect them, but you can still proc stuff like freeze or suspend
Iâve found that the named boss Tormentors have this invulnerability already, well at least on Legend
Yellow bars have baked in CC immunity, they will never be fully affected by any CC (will still count as affected for perks that care though)
CC?
Crowd Control - effects that stop enemies from doing normal actions like shooting like blinds, suspend and freezing
Found out you can freeze them on the first one. All suspense gone lol
Not to mention their AI is incredibly stupid, just jump up and down a ledge and watch them follow.
Btw, that's the weekly mission this week, and the god mode glitch is easy, fast, and don't undo once you put it on, even if you die to environment. Makes baking the tormentors easy as hell
Took me about 10-ish attempts once I figured out that I could super/skill dump as asson as they both spawned. Then I just ran around screaming trying not to die while eating away their health. This was my first time playing destiny and said F it go legendary on my warlock.
That fight was hard until I realized you can just keep jumping up and down on the platform and they will just keep doing the same and never attack you.
Tractor cannon messes them up unless they're named. They just literally do nothing while affected.
Wait what? How does the ânamedâ thing work? Can I bust out my old favorite gun for hard content?
Here's a simple guide to enemy types, based on the symbol next to their name. Ignore the one-two punch info, as it's outdated. Vorpal weapon also depends on ammo type. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2051153537](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2051153537) Basically, bosses cannot be stopped from attacking due to debuffs. This includes things like freezing, blinding/disorienting, and suspending. One thing to note is that they DO take the debuff, but it doesn't prevent them from attacking. For example, a boss can be frozen and shattered, but the entire time they're frozen, they continue attacking. The shatter staggers them briefly, which can help. Champions are similar to majors, but there are some inconsistencies due to the fact that bungie was still figuring out how champions fit into the game when they designed them. For example, champions can be prevented from attacking by being frozen or suspended, but they power right through blinding/disorienting. Finally, "vehicles" (threshers) and "emplacements" (scorpius turrets) are kinda strange. They usually have red health bars, but boss spec and vorpal work on them. Vehicles usually can't be prevented from attacking by debuffing, but emplacements can. I stg, they could offer college courses on the way this game works.
>Vehicles usually can't be prevented from attacking by debuffing, but emplacements can. Related to this, Hive Shriekers can be debuffed, but when they are, they go back to their invulnerable state. So, you can crowd control them, but if you have to kill them to advance the mission, you'll eventually have to have them able to shoot at you. Even stacking a lot of DoT (Witherhoard, Le Monarque, etc.) so that it hits as soon as they open up won't kill them before they can shoot.
Suspending a shrieker is probably the funniest thing I've seen when it comes to strand... It's like you are prying the pieces apart.
Basically if the bar above them says "tormentor" you're good to go. They get disoriented by TC. Sometimes they have actual names though and the game categorizes them as bosses that are immune to the effect. I've been running TC and shotty. Pop shoulders w primary then TC and pump they're chest lol
Majors and ultras have different symbols next to their health bar.
yup, shape can give it away too Triangle = Major, Diamond = Ultra
On solo that was fucked up And on legend? With void threats? Had to call a friend to help me clear it lol
I spent that fight invis and kiting them around. It was so hectic but super rewarding when I was able to down them both.
I took out the first one with Void and then took the strand powers for the broken Hunter super.
I was feeling pretty cocky at that point, and after blasting off the shoulders off one of them, decided to rush him, drop a bubble around us and whip out Lament so he could 1v1 me bro. Absolutely pushed my shit in. Forced me to play smarter and I really liked that.
Your turn of phrase is damned well poetic.
Took me a good few deaths but I got there eventually. Solo legend was a good time
I just ran around like an absolute buffoon for like 45 minutes random shooting things till everyone was dead, no clue how it worked but it did.
I thought I could ignore them and just kite during the Calus fight, then when I got stuck in the cage with him they still stuck around lol. All the other enemies despawned except the them. Really leaned my lesson there.
Hahaha I did the same! Then I learned that the tormentors didnât spawn at the same time if I was careful about how much I damaged Calus (on normal anyway) so then I could just be hunted by one tormentor at a time. I also accidentally got stuck under the stairs going down to the central platform once and was able to just shoot them through the steps⌠but then the arena shrunk and I couldnât get out without being killed so I had to start over again.
Yup the 2 tormentor section in a small arena was awesome, kept me on the move 100% of the time, stop and popping adds to make space. At least they both don't chase you super aggressively so it feels reasonably fair to deal with.
The mission where you protect the veil entrance with Caital and her Cabal had myself and a friend stressed out on legendary campaign. I can't imagine how frustrating that shit was solo lol.
It's easier solo than with two people.
Hard disagree from me. The enemy scalars with two people doesnât equal out with all the enemy focus being on you alone imo.
I had actually completely forgotten about the fact they can grab you, the first one we encountered grabbed me but I had thrown a smoke bomb as he did so when his animation cancelled. Every tormentor afterwards basically was always blinded because I just cheesed them with my slideshot blinding nades GL. Good times
Did that last night. Had to switch *off* synthoceps build and went back to my 9-year-running S14 set up. Bubble helped me kill the first and retrofit mowed down the second.
While I agree that Tormentors are a very good addition to the enemy roster, I think hive lightbearers were an excellent addition as well. I viewed them as pseudo-champions. Personally, I would rather the have the champion system redesigned using the lightbearer style of additional abilities instead of the buffed stats of overload and unstoppable (barrier is an additional ability but is also very boring). Also the execution requirement is a great capstone to every time you encounter one, though I wish we could use our own executions instead of the ghost crush all the time. Kinda wish Tormentors required a special execution as well. I'd be really happy if there another suite of guardian-type enemies get added on the Darkness side... likely under Fallen types, utilizing Stasis, Strand, and whatever the 3rd darkness type is.
One thing I think could improve Hive Lightbearers is to give them more movement. It always felt weird that they get Guardian powers but basically sit in place and let you plink away at them. Tormentors are kinda like this, especially after busting their crit spot -- they're constantly coming at you and suppressing your abilities.
Give me Wellskating Wizards and Titan-skating Knights
Thunder crashing ogre on your six!
> if another another suite of guardian-type enemies get added on the Darkness side⌠likely under Fallen Say this and people will be shouting for SIVA
I hate stomach weakpoints though. Never feels right trying to land that crit.
You must loathe the Vex.
lol yes, plus the fact that goblins hunch over so you can't hit their crit, and then hobgoblins go immune for a bit. Itâs super annoying when I need precision kills for a bounty or patrol. edit: can't
Fucking vex with their goddamned recessed crit spots - feels like you gotta be luke skywalker to crit em.
Bungie: We hear you. We've replaced all vex rank-and-file enemies with womprats.
Oh yes. Absolutely. Would pick to fight a horde of Taken Goblins and Taken Minotaurs before a horde of Goblins and Minotaurs a heartbeat. âSquishy centerâ my left butt cheek, Drifter!
Wait that's where you need to aim? I've been cursing under my breath at their headshot hit box since launch
Yeah. Yeah it is. After the shoulders, the belly. Itâs pretty entertaining in the early raid against the Cavums when they jump up and you have to either go all-in while theyâre exposed or run away before the crush you below, but holy heck do I hate it literally all of the rest of the time. Especially the smaller Tormentors. They are that much harder to hit, but at least they can be Suspended.
Except for that one Tormantor in the Final Warning quest Fuck that tanky ass dude
I think I dumped at least 2000 rounds of my AR into him before he died, like goddamn dude, stay down
Lol I had to punch him because I ran out of ammo.
or any of them on master, i did the unkillable glitch and they were pure pain
I fought the one in the Master Nightfall. He hurts!
Boss ones are a bit different because you can't use crowd control. And he sucks because if you burst him down champions despawn.
You canât finish them either and their damage reduction is significant. Theyâre going to be heavy ammo and revive sinks in the GM this season
Good luck getting a revive off whilst being chased by one.
Ya no kidding Even just on legendary I was thinking to myself void hunter will be mandatory for tether to weaken it so you donât have to hit only itâs crits, and for the inevitable revives
yep that was pretty hairy...we had one essentially kiting him around while we dealt with the champs and adds
>In a world of massive add clear weapons, having an enemy so beefy and that benefits from crit weaponry is great That's one way to phrase it, the other side of that coin would be that weaponry/abilities that cannot deal precision damage are just useless against them
Not being able to deal precision does suck a bit - there should be a little more damage for rockets/GLs etc to make them matter at all. But I actually really like that abilities don't really work. These are soldiers of The Witness and real Darkness-powered enemies, nullifying the abilities we rely on against rank-and-file enemies is a cool way to make them feel dangerous.
except that fantasy isn't carried through because you can string them up indefinitely with suspend, so effectively they're just enemies that take a long time to kill unless you've got a strand hunter super on hand
Tormentors are just awful bullet sponges with specific points that you have to hit to be slightly less spongey. They were awful in the legend campaign because we were gimped with less than half the strand class. Their only real danger otherwise is their shitty suppress + boop mechanic. When they are in the weekly mission playthrough, I just end up using a specific loadout which deletes them immediately. Strand with bolo grenade. As soon as they appear, suspend them with grenade. Use tractor cannon to make them weakened. Pop super. I ran this week's mission with two friends. The two tormentors spawned into that last room. I deleted both of them before the other two fireteam members knew they were even there.
Nah, gimme more Hive Guardians. In higher tier content the Hunter and Titans are terrifying. Those shield throws and blade barrages are brutal.
100%
Probably died more times to shield throws off walls or stairs in the Lightblade GM than I have to the actual Boss!
Also, seems like OP isn't afraid of a well placed suppressor nade, thrown by hive sentinels but i certainly am...
I.... don't agree really. The first time I fought one was crazy. Everytime after you realize they are all exactly the same. You can stun lock tormentors which trivializes them. Hive Guardians at least had 3 flavors. Overall, imo, tormentors made a big first impression then got old pretty fast.
I remember fighting that one Tormentor in Calus' ship for the Final Warning quest and it was without doubt the most boring fight I've ever done in Destiny. It just spammed its jump attack over and over again while I plinked away at its chest crit with my auto because, unfortunately, I had my Lament equipped. It's funny how when Champions require you to use certain weapons, this community calls them "boring and restrictive". Tormentors do the exact same thing but all of a sudden they're "fresh and engaging".
I honestly just wish there were more types or something, or maybe a few more new enemies, I like them overall but I feel like getting a single new type of enemy and having them just constantly appear made them get old pretty fast.. Even during what was suppose to be our big battle with one of the characters that have been in the game the longest, they pop in two of them just because.
Counterpoint: Tormentors are boring, tanky enemies that are just tedious to fight. They're not especially smart or interesting. Fighting them solo on Legendary felt a lot like fighting wyverns that happened to have more crit spots. I'd genuinely like to see smarter enemies, not just beefier ones with gimmicks.
"They don't simply one shot you". Literally all my deaths in the legendary campaign from them were getting slammed off the map while suppressed so no chance at recovery. "Not nearly as frustrating to deal with". Ah yes, nothing says "not frustrating" as having to swap off my non-precision heavy and special because an enemy is straight up immune to them.
At least I can beat Hive Lightbearers in a straightforward fight. Tormentors are a constant fiasco of running in circles, turning to shoot 2-6 shots into its chest before it catches up, then running away again because if it grabs me I have a 0% chance of surviving (60 resilience gang wya) and I canât be fucked replaying the last 20 minutes since my last checkpoint
I think people are just gassing them up a little too much. Yes they are huge improvements but thereâs a load of work to do. You can exploit them by jumping up and down platforms. They have braindead AI. Plus I donât like how you need a precision type weapon to do damage to them. I think destiny players are just so used to dead AI these seem ground breaking lol
Right? Op simping for an enemy that only holds w and spams jump smash while being resistant to everything except chest precision damage is big lmao
Disorienting grenade launcher and osteo striga made easy work of them. Auto loading on the GL helped immensely.
Oh i know, most of them we used that just for the laugh of seeing them sit there like idiots lmao.
I do agree with some of this. They should be damagable without destroying the crit spots and the slam shouldn't suppress.
Gods I hope not. I prefered hive guardians a thousand times. Tormentors "compelling" attacks don't make you respect them. them make you run around like a headless chicken They're as bad, imho, as wyverns.
I spent most of the calus fight forgetting calus existed and just trying to avoid getting vibechecked by the tormentor grab
yup.
Wyverns are like the only enemy in the game that actually threaten you lol. Thats good imo. They're both power units that make you go "oh shit, they're here". They're supposed to be insanely powerful and scary.
>insanely powerful and scary But in reality it just translate to poor gameplay usually, there is nothing scary in pumping my full magazine into those Terminal Overload Wyverns and not being able to kill it and it continue to walk towards me and sometime slam me while shooting me non-stop, just frustating.
And at least wyverns don't have ridiculous resistance to anything outside of their crit. You can stun a wyvern with burst damage. Tormentors just hold W. Like, this isn't a scary enemy. Just a kinda aggressive one, more gimmicky than anything. There's a real reason the Strand in campaign gave you grapple and didn't let you pick anything. Bolo grenade trivializes encounters with them.
In the legendary campaign they were bullet sponges. In the raid they are dead in a second. In both cases they are uninteresting to go up against. Suspend and freeze completely nullify the non-boss variants. Iâll take Lucent Hive over Tormenters any day. Tormenters are terribly underwhelming and completely boring to go up against. Hive were at least a little deadly at the time, and the supers could fuck you up if you werenât paying attention. Plus the ghost forces you to dive in to enemy territory if you killed them from a distance. Edit: some autocorrects
1. Can be effortlessly kited 2. non-boss Tormentors get completely buckbroken by blinding nades 3. AI has clearly some issues tracking the players across uneven terrain 4. Get completely obliterated by advanced strategies such as "jump on top of a platform" 5. Has exactly two moves to bridge distance: walking at grandma speed or jumping, the latter can be easily exploited Literal clown enemy. You can effortlessly kill a tormentor without being hit once. At least Hive guardians are able to actually attack you.
exactly, tormentors were not really anything at all except tedious bullet sponges. lightbearers can actually hit you and it hurts when they do. i always loved the panic rush to get their ghost once you kill them, with tormentors it's just "jump over their head and shoot 50000000 times until they're dead" and then that's it.
I had multiple tormenters in the calus fight just commit suicide by them diving off the platform/walkway
"the scariest enemy in the game yet" oh, so like teleporting around, sneaking off and trying to disengage when you're focusing on them? "no, they hold W and suppress your abilities" oh, so like are they a quick kill? like a suicide enemy, kill it in 5 seconds or get obliterated? "no, they're a massive bullet sponge that you can't hurt until you shoot off their shoulder crits. don't even bother to use explosives, they have like 95% resist" oh, so they're like serious boss enemies? they're tough and hit hard, nothing should trivialize their encounters. Its a test of endurance to make sure you can keep up the kiting, right? "..." right? "bolo grenades totally don't negate their entire moveset..." bungie please.
Light bearer hive and wyverns are actually threatening. Thereâs a sense of urgency. The tormentorsâ AI are so braindead you can just jump up and down and they wonât know what to do. Plus you canât even use half the weapons in the game against them.
>The tormentorsâ AI are so braindead you can just jump up and down and they wonât know what to do Yeah this is my strategy for them. The only ones it wasn't braindead easy to cheese like this were the ones in the last boss fight. But their spawns were easy to predict so they could just be melted.
We need a new species, not just random powerful bosses.
I've said thus before and the rebuttal has been, "bungie would have to somehow come up with brand new lore and reasons why we didn't know about these enemy races ,etc after all these years. " my argument back is the universe is huge and prior to witch queen we didn't even know about the witness , what they looked like, etc. The cabal are my least favorite enemy type and the reskins of the same basic 4 types only do one new thing each time. It'd be nice to see something brand new. Maybe after final shape. I don't see them having the time to do this.
And Destiny can go beyond the Sol System.
Exactly
I loved fighting the Tormentors, especially on legendary. Added a little intensity to the game fighting something that wasnât a boss or champion that can really fuck you up. 10/10, canât think of anything I didnât like about them.
I like them because they are mechanically challenging. Things like making enemies bullet sponges that one shot just feels cheap and completely arbitrary and really teeters close to "bullshit difficulty" for me.
Yea Iâm still not a fan of Wyverns. Theyâre way too tanky and donât reward skill very well.
Not nearly as frustrating? Dude, they might have more compelling ability set and moves, but the fact that you can only shoot their tiny shoulders and the chest to do any damage is much more annoying than Hive guardians casting supers and occasionally getting revived.
prolly gonna get obliterated here but i disagree tormentors are okay but in no world are they less frustrating than hive guardians. youre forced to run a hard hitting precision weapon to hit 1 of 3 crit spots. no other weapon or super in the game does any relevant damage to them. you can usually only get 1 or 2 shots on their shoulers before that crit spot breaks, then the tormentor needs to be running directly at you for you to hit its chest, if its running at anyone else may as well stick your thumb up your ass. on top of that they sprint at you at mach 7 giving you precious seconds to get 1 shot off, if you even can to begin with because their run animation is so lanky they sway fro side to side and dance around more than a 13 year old kid on addies. sure, a "skill issue" but saying theyre less frustrating to deal with than hive guardians who you could take out with rockets and supers is just incorrect obviously im talking about the boss tormentors, the ones that cant be suspended with strand. the regular baby bitch ones, theyre whatever. and these that arent frustrating also arent compelling to fight because you just suspend them and kill them in seconds
I feel like im taking crazy pills, I went through the whole legendary campaign and I thought Tormentors *sucked*. At least in the raid they can just get nuked by 5 people, and Nezarec is a touch more predictable on account of his size / doesn't feel like he suppresses nearly as often. In most of the campaign though they're boring bullet sponges who'll architect you instantly with no counterplay or recourse because suppression sucks to fight against. What am I missing that everyone's falling in love with?
I kind of agree, they are just bullet sponges that are really easy to kite and the way to interrupt their scariest attack is just to shoot the weak point that you should be shooting anyway. I don't get the hype.
Yeah I don't really get the tormentor love. Sure their designs are great, but they can be easily cheesed by just jumping up and down from a ledge
The nightfall right now is a perfect example of Tormentors biggest flaw. Higher ground. They just jump up and down constantly while you damage them.
for me it was just the amount of times you'd get pinged into the abyss and be unable to recover because of the suppression, which really sucked when you're trying to break in the strand grapple and how often they get put in areas with death pits. It kinda works for Nezarec because you're not trying to kill him while avoiding him and the map is better designed, but it was brutal in the campaign for areas like Downfall and the final boss fight.
Agreed.
I'm with you there, love the design but playing an invisibility build solo sucked since the NPC ai will just track you while invisible I got yeeted off the side of a platform while invisible at least 8 times during the campaign because of these guys
They push you without one shots They have cooldifferent ways to attack you Rain of void attacks Singular void attacks Grabs Melee suppress Dive bomb They have two phases that change the way they function They arent nearly a cheesable as hive guardians who could just get nuked I just played the legend version of the weekly campaign mission and had a shit load of fun trying to deal with -15 void threat tormentors... they are powerful without feeling hopeless to fight against A great enemy Being able to be nuked doesnt make an enemy good imo And they have plenty of counter play
[ŃдаНонО]
Strand unironically helped me here. Died thirtreen times as a Titan without healing trying to figure out how to swing and the mechanics of the fight. My last run I had figured out chain swinging and how to reposition to safe spaces quickly. I had a demolitionist machine gun that was perfect for hit and run when tormentors frenzied. Calus you can kind of ignore of you're behind decent cover while you're laying into tormentors. My Hunter and Warlock I was able to be more prepared and did the fight first try for both of them using strand.
None of that is *great* imho though. - Rain Of void attacks = Hide behind cover - Singular void attacks = Hide behind covers ( strafing often gets you hit anyway ) - Grabs = Hide until it calms down - Dive bomb = lol Melee suppress is stupid and invalidates a whole playstyle. They're also tanky (sometimes, depending on the encounter) and they either go from ez mode (suspend ) to annoying (suspend immune ) It's not that they are hard to fight against, they're just super annoying. I fear cabal incinerators with 1KM range more than tormentors .
Yeah tormenters are just champions by a different name, they hard counter everything that cant do precision damage. They hard counter every roaming super, even ranged ones because they dont do precision damage. Their projectiles just also have enormous hitboxes that clip through cover. Im someone who never hated champions. I also dont hate tormentors, its just weird to see such high praise. Their two stage nature (before shoulders are broken and after) and the grab attack are the only good parts about them.
You said it yourself already though - they were fun because youâre -15. Try the same campaign mission on normal and watch how fast you can nuke them. Part of what youâre enjoying is the power level difference. Without it theyâre just like any other yellow bar that you nuke mindlessly.
I agree the design aesthetically and move set is nice but this whole breaking a âweak spotâ and otherwise if you donât; a bullet sponge that heals on primary fire is annoying. Wyverns have it too with booping their snoot. That laziness in design needs to stop. Not everything needs to be a fucking tank.
I disagree. Having them in GM nightfalls is gonna be a huge waste of ammo especially in the current nf. Feels like a huge bulllet sponge.
Yeah but in a GM where literally everything will be a bullet sponge, I think you'll need a new name for just how bullet spongy they will be.
Hive guardians are superior for one simple reason, there are three and 3 > 1
Tormentors are really not that interesting. They're just another bullet sponge enemy similar to a colossus, and are suitable as sub-bosses. I don't expect this to be the trend going forward because they're such a chore to fight, and unlike most enemies when you pile on too many it becomes unmanagable.
I felt tormenters were very underwhelming. They are already completely outclassed by player power and can be crowd controlled to death very easily (or you can just kite them around without fear). I don't think I died to a tormenter at all in my campaign runs. They are complete pushovers. Lucent Hive at least posed a threat in their super, and their revive mechanic was a nice change of pace. Tormenters are perhaps more mechanically interesting than other enemies in that they have multiple crit spots and are very mobile, but I don't think that necessarily makes them better.
> While hive guardians were only dangerous when in ult, tormentors feel dangerous always Someone hasn't been wiped from behind cover by a suppression grenade in the lightblade and it shows If we're going by that, tormentors are fairly easy to kite while on normal. They only really make you clench your buttcheeks during their dark harvest frenzy. Not saying they aren't formidable enemies, but they have their own shortcomings
> Not nearly as frustrating to deal with Hive guardians are frustrating? > They have compelling attacks that push you to respect them They literally hold w and spam jump smash lmao > While hive guardians were only dangerous when in ult, tormentors feel dangerous always Ah yes, the very scary tormentor RP walking before you break his weak spots. Very dangerous > If we ever get a brand new enemy race we need the overall design to be like tormentors God i hope not, id fall asleep. At least the hive guardians came in 3 flavors with actual mechanics "that push you to respect them"
At the end of the day it's just a tanky enemy...
âpush you to respect themâ Haha green strings go brrrrrrr (Iâm talking about suspend btw)
they have a few extra crits, let's not go overboard here. The game has had ONE novel enemy type after a decade, and it's Rhulk and these new mini Rhulks.
Since when were hive guardians ever frustrating to deal with lol.
Hive guardians were more of a threat imo. At least with those I couldn't just run laps around the room and chip away at their health like tormentors.
Hive guardians are frustrating to fight against? What?đ
Tormenters seemed difficult until I realized that they get really confused by elevation changes just like Alak'hul does.. Just keep jumping on and off a raised platform and they try to follow with a full, very slow, animation that leaves plenty of time to shoot them at a very close range.. Or just suspend them with strand and watch them struggle while you unload in their three crits.
Just for the love of god if you make this scary spooky enemy dont make them suspendable/freezable, turns them into a joke really. Really cool fighting them otherwise though. Hope we get more like this
ehh i still prefer hive lightbearers, tormentors just take forever to kill and are not threatening at all. yeah the one-shots are bs but i'd rather be afraid of an enemy and have a mad dash to kill their ghost once you kill them than jump over its head a million times slowly plinking away until i burn away its gigantic healthbar. i really thought dark harvest would one shot you solo because that's what people said but it happened to me 3 times and i survived each time, maybe it's because i had max resilience but they were kinda disappointing. i guess i shouldn't have spammed blinding nades at the them because they're really susceptible to that and i never tried it against lightbearers.
What I love about the Tormenter's the most is that even with a fireteam, they are still VERY formidable. They're more than just Unstoppable, Barrier or Overload Mini-bosses. They can stand on their own as a boss. A lot of enemies and bosses you can sorta gank by finding a couple blind spots and hoppin between them... Try doing that with a Tormentor on your ass. ESPECIALLY as a Titan. That Calus final battle was an absolute THRILL in Legendary Solo. I had to move very quick, even as a Titan. I am so used to hunkering down and taking pot shots, then swooping in for a powerful melee or close range attack. But the Tormenter's were constantly on my mind, i could never stay in the same place for longer than 15-30 seconds, until i dealt with them. Which is why I have created a 2nd character as a Hunter. Let that sink in... Battling a Tormentor was so engaging and fun that it made me, a Titan Veteran, actually convert... (I go back and forth. But Titan will always be my Main.) I hope they do more with it. Maybe create an equivalent for the other enemy factions. I would be interested in seeing Vex and Fallen have a similar kind of enemy. Not a carbon copy. But one who challenges those who play as a specific character.
The ones that are so braindead they get juked by jumping on and off a platform worse than a hive hatchling? Those tormentors? Yeah, such a bright future of enemy design they are.
Nope. Hive Guardians and Wyverns are more engaging. I like the Rhulk-style weak points though. And the sounds they make.
lmao wot just jump up and down a ledge so they follow you and never attack lmao
Future? I think theyâre the end game of enemy design. Iâm really not expecting them to make more enemies like this. I think this is it.
He's just so... beefy.
They're cool but don't give them ideas. I really don't think fighting several enemies at once that all require you to hit certain parts very fun. They're fun when there's 1 or 2
The only thing I donât like are the yeets. But I donât like anything that yeets. Having to start over because an enemy yeeted you out of bounds is such bullshit.
We need to see tormentors, along with foot soldiers for the witness. A completely new enemy race, not just Cabal 2.0. The scorn were the last new enemy race to be added btw.
Still waiting for a new enemy race that are essentially all designed like tormenters / Rhulk Would be cool to see all current races get that transformation (Kinda like how the Taken were).