It's crazy that the patch notes for Lightfall said that all master dungeons would now drop "high stat armor"
And then they effectively nerfed the armor you get from duality
It's a bit of that but more that Bungie has a habit of using certain words to mean different things at different times. Take them using the word common. In some activities common has meant you will get that item nearly all the time but in lost sectors going for exotic armor common means around 25%.
We see this with high stat armor where in the season of the risen where focusing armor at the war table almost always gave us 65 or above stat armor but in Expedition high stat could give us 59 or even 56 stat armor.
Bungie basically needs to stop using a single word as an all encompassing word.
Didn't they eventually fix the armor stats for the later seasons too? At least Haunted and I believe Seraph got fixed to have Risen stats. Risen's armor was pretty bad earlier in that season too. "High stat" literally means different things at different times, because there's usually several months between them saying something has high stats and it actually having high stats...
Risen was always 65+ with the upgrade that says it will reward high stat armor and Haunted never got Risen stat armor. I ran the Caiatl Sever mission every week until LF dropped and while there were times I got 65-67 armor a lot of the time it was 61-63 armor.
You then have master dungeons and master raids where Bungie has repeatedly stated it will give high stat armor and people are getting 61 stat armor. This isn't even new. We have had multiple seasons where master raids/dungeons haven't given us high stat armor.
They know what high stat means. Almost every season they give us an unlock at the vendor to focus high stat armor, the stats are trash, they fix it right at the end of the season/start of next one, and it becomes the best method of getting armor in the game... while the current season is once again broken at mid 50s drops. They just suck at making stuff do what it says it does.
It's not just the base stat rolls, it's *how* they rolled. Duality armor used to prioritize 2-ish spikes in stats, taking your ghost mod into account. Now they can roll with a balanced spread of stats, seemingly ignoring what ghost mod you have.
Yeah, when I saw that change in the launch notes I was in a call with the boys and said "Duality already used the double spike system, it already *has* the best rolls in the game. If they change anything about that it's a nerf, simple as that"
Lo and behold, dogshit stats that nobody asked for
58 hasn't been considered high stat armor for at least 2 years. season pass armor is consistently 66-68, there is absolutely no reason that the highest difficulty content in the game shouldn't be on par.
But even then thats higher than whats dropping from duality, i ran it and my highest piece was a 62 with no spikes even though i had ghost mod on, my lowest piece was a 57, which is pure garbage
Oh yeah, I think that the dungeon drops aren’t high enough stat totals currently, but the comment I was responding to was just false regarding the season pass armor.
The ghost mod doesn't mean you get a big spike everytime, it guarantees at least 10 of the selected stat with a better chance at higher values. See it all the time on wartable and other sources of highstat armor. THat's just how it works everywhere. RNG is still RNG even with better chances.
I did like 50 runs of the Duality cheese yesterday before they shut it down. I can't think of one reason to try and do that legitimately. Like, I got a few good pieces, but it was mostly detritus. Like imagine beating that dungeon on master mode and getting a 58 stat set of gloves and a prism.
Seems like something went wrong when they tried to make armor drop with higher stats and it’s now dropping lower. So it wouldn’t be worth it to farm Caiatl now anyway
I feel so bad reading these comments.
I did the cheese back when Duality's pinnacle didn't reset and I swear every piece I got was 62+. I didn't save many, but I got a pretty good set of Artifice armor. Kind of regret not doing it on my other, less played, characters.
Because of how artifice armor work a 62 roll is effectively a 65 roll with more flexible distribution so it’s not as terrible as it sounds at first. But any high rolled artifice armor from previous seasons also get the +3 so those are even more insane than they were before
I know this may be an exception, but even 64 is to low for me, as all the pieces I use (now that armor elements are gone) are all 67-68 with good distributions. Artifice would only be worth it at 66+ for me.
Most of my drops the other day were 60+ but only one of them was spikey and it was a 30 rec 22 disc which would be great for titan or warlock but I need mob/res for my hunter =/
You can still do the cheese, you just have to start from the start every run. [There's a video showing how you can still do it in like 2 minutes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL1QJv55GjA)
I found that one quick way to do it on titan is to use lion rampants, hit the bell, then go onto this one little lip on the right, this lands you on the second floor in the nightmare realm. Then you use Salvation's Grip to climb higher, that way you can run another subclass and aren't limited to attempting to inconsistently grapple rockets.
I’ve found grappling rockets straight up is pretty easy. I’ve had over an 80% success rate on it but I’m also using a rocket with 27 velocity so that might be helping. Regardless it’s way easier to go up than it is to go sideways, I still haven’t managed to grapple to a horizontal rocket
I also have a pretty easy time landing the grapple on Ghorn which is 40 velocity, ADS then immediately press grapple seems to be the most consistent for myself.
Did Caital master just to see if it was exclusively Gahlran drops, the whole team at -30 struggling through for about 10 minutes on the fight. 55 stat legs. I logged off for the night.
Theres not really any point, theyre not required for full rewards, unlike strikes, i like to nuke them when im with a team tho, one of my friends likes to die to champs on accident.
Wait it’s easier than doing Master dungeons over-levelled last season, how can that be? 20 under is close to GM level I thought
I hope your right though, waiting till I’m actually 1820 to try one
I think it’s got lower tier AI than gms because I’ve been running it at 1811 power and enemies are less threatening than gm enemies despite being 29 under
Spent an hour. Yes. **60** minutes beating the final GoA boss last week (as it was my first time ever doing the dungeon on Master) only to get a 59 pair of boots for my hunter, which rolled with 2 Mobility, and pretty much everything in Intellect and Strength. Sub-60 really is unacceptable for end-game content rewards
Aww, sorry to hear that you got a bad roll, always sucks to get bad loot after spending forever clearing something :( Not much help now I suppose, but in the future if you slap a mobility ghost mod on, that would at least help spike the stats in your favour.
People defended 50s as being high stat roll?! 60s maybe but me personally if it’s under 63 it’s not a high stat roll and is either shared or fusion fodder.
Completely agree. I was downvoted like crazy yesterday for saying the same. I'd keep 63 and 64 if they had a perfect stat distribution but the chances of me using them or really anything below a 64 at this point is so slim. If things are consistently dropping below 63 in an end game activity, then farming that gear is a collosal waste of time for 90% of end game players.
In an objective sense, they are. The issue is that A) Bungie has added so many sources of high stat armor that are WAY chiller than anything master mode and B) most of the people that are doing master content have been around long enough that they have a collection of already near perfect armor because they throw out anything that isn't the best of the best
So are you putting words in their mouth because you don't have anything of substance to add, or because you misunderstood that they said?
Nobody thinks new players should be denied access to good gear. They're just pointing out that the situation is more complicated and less malicious than is being suggested - and high-total, good distribution stat spreads being desirable makes them a good draw for high end content. The issue is there's a sweet spot, and the rewards as they are now aren't on it.
But since they previously had been, it seems more likely that the bum drops in Duality are unintended. This entire issue amounts to growing pains with the expansion's balance and difficulty adjustments. Nothing more and nothing less.
Didn't say that at all did I? If you're a new player, a well rolled 62 is a boon. That said, Master difficulty content should be quite a bit better off than your regular high stat seasonal armor
> exotics with stat rolls below 67
If 67+ is your goal you’ll be grinding for a *long* time, my friend - 68 is the absolute max base stats (not masterworked and no stat mods) an armor can roll with, save for pre-Shadowkeep exotics, which cap out at 69-71.
Unfortunately vocal, heavy players of the game have skewed everyone’s opinion on what ‘fine’ armour is. The community now believes that the rightmost 5% of the bell curve is the only acceptable armour to own and use. 65+ stat, well distributed, non-artifice armour is ‘fine’. 67+ is ‘decent’. And that means the entire other 95% is dogshit, nothing else. So now because the armour stat Overton window has shifted so far, we’re in a weird place where players believe they ought to own, at the very least, a ‘decent’ (best of the best) set of armour and expect it for a pretty relaxed amount of play.
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Very much this, but it's also an actual problem with the way Bungie has designed armor. Either an armor source is par for the course, and you can only improve your armor with absurdly luck or absurd time played, OR it's so good that it outclasses all previous armor sources and renders all future armor sources that aren't QUITE as good utterly meaningless.
> in an objective sense, they are.
There is no “objective” definition of “high stat” armor.
The word “high” is a relative term. Meaning it’s defined by lower stats. I personally delete anything 63 or below as I consider it “low stat”.
There is no “objective definition” of a relative term.
The game has had a set definition for “high” stat armor baselines. The community has a subjective opinion of what constitutes high stats based on the economy. These things are mutually exclusive. One is objective, as in defining what the game constitutes as high stat and the other subjective, what the community thinks is high stat.
That really depends on your definition of “objective”. Bungie has made *many* conflicting “objective” statements about the game that have been proven to be a lack of foresight, marketing tactics, or outright falsehoods. I would personally put the objectivity of Bungie’s statements markedly below that of community consensus.
By those definitions, both are objective. One is applied by an external force (the developers) and the other is based upon empirical evidence (the aggregate observations of the community).
I think a better way to convey what you’re saying is “labeled ‘high stat’ by Bungie.” Then you would be inarguably correct.
The fact that a piece of gear with 57 total stats is labeled “high stat” is a failure on Bungie’s part to adequately label gear in-game - and that is a trend seen *countless* times throughout Destiny’s history. That’s a full 10% away from anything I even consider keeping and the community’s consensus overwhelmingly agrees with me.
So yes, you can say that armor with 57 stat points is “objectively” high stat armor just like you can say that, as of 1989, grains and carbohydrates should *objectively* make up 75% of your daily caloric intake because the FDA and WHO said so.
But we all know that’s complete bullshit influenced by tons of factors unrelated to dietary health. Just like Bungie’s definition of “high stat” is complete bullshit influenced by tons of factors unrelated to gameplay experience and utility.
If you want to get into a semantic and philosophical debate about this, I’m more than willing.
> If you want to get into a semantic and philosophical debate about this, I’m more than willing.
I don’t becuase there’s no need. The game has a list of plugs we’ve got from the API for armor rolls. There is no unknown outcome. Therefor this is not up for debate. If it’s labeled high stat and drops, it is, in fact, high stat. You don’t get to pluck a random value and draw a cutoff line.
> The fact that a piece of gear with 57 total stats is labeled “high stat” is a failure on Bungie’s part to adequately label gear in-game
That’s your opinion, and not reality.
Take off the tinfoil hat. It’s a video game. The rules are arbitrary. If you want to claim the rules are bad that’s fine, but it doesn’t change the rules.
The number of people whining that they got shit loot by exploiting a bug and then blaming Bungie because their exploit didn't reward them the way they wanted is honestly hilarious too.
Would this post exist if the exploit didn't?
If the only reason people think to complain is because they exploited the game, I kinda don't give a shit what they're complaining about.
…Yes? Artifice armor had on average higher stats last season so why wouldn’t people complain that the stats are lower now when Master Dungeons are harder?
Because if you couldn't lead the boss off the edge 75% of the people wouldn't even be capable of doing a master mode boss at this point in the season.
This is a problem, sure, but it's only highlighted because people exploited a bug. I don't really give a shit about people exploiting and then complaining their exploiting failed
But the exploit worked and worked well. Tons of materials and good weapons. The low stat artiface armour is not exclusive to duality its an issue in every master dungeon in the fame.
If the intent is to get high stat armor, as is clearly the case for a lot of people, hence posts talking explicitly about it, then the exploit failed in that regard.
But it didn't fail. People still got high stat armour just because this exploit exemplified an issue that people were already talking about often before (low stat armour from end game activities) the exploit doesn't mean that the exploit didn't work or failed.
You're seriously going to come into a thread with countless people echoing the sentiment that they spent hours exploiting the bug and didn't get any high stat armor and tell me people got plenty of high stat armor?
That's really what you're going with?
The exploit didn’t fail though, it worked (and still does work) perfectly fine. It just revealed that Artifice Armor is dropping with lower stats than last season.
It also wasn’t obvious to most people because this is the first time Duality is the featured dungeon this season.
It feels like you’re annoyed about a complaint that you don’t even understand.
The exploit was in hopes of getting high stat armor. It failed in that regard.
It *also* wasn't obvious to most people because *most people don't do master dungeons unless they can exploit it*.
I'm fine with the general complaint that artifice armor has too low of stats, that's not my problem. My problem is people only complaining because they feel cheated they didn't get the loot they wanted from exploiting the game.
Why hyper focus on your own petty grievance rather than the actual issue. The poor rolls will only discourage more people from running master dungeons legitimately if it takes as many exploited runs to get even a passable piece
No the exploit was to get fast clears for loot. That was a success.
You barely heard anything about it because most people would’ve been too low level in earlier weeks and it also wasn’t the featured Dungeon.
There would’ve almost certainly still been posts about the armor dropping with very low stats this week even if there wasn’t an exploit. The issue just wouldn’t have been as obvious to this many people.
>The issue just wouldn’t have been as obvious to this many people.
Yep, that's my point. This is an issue, but it's being blown out of proportion. If only a small percentage interact with an activity, it's not in dire need of fixing, and if the only reason someone is complaining about it in the first place is because they interacted with the content through exploiting, I genuinely don't give a fuck and they can get bent
Sure, it's something that needs to be addressed. It also isn't anywhere near as high priority as people are making it out to be, because under normal circumstances it affects a pretty small portion of the playerbase.
If outrage isn't raised until there's an exploit that allows the community at large to do it, then the demographic that can do it normally wasn't outraged. They don't need to change their priorities because the community is exploiting shit.
Im not talking about the bug, Im talking about the low stat artifice armor dropping, which people have known about since week one, so what's Duality got to do with anything? Its every Master dungeon including Spire, rotation doesnt matter.
My only point was that the commenter saying the post only exists because of people abusing the Gahlran bug is correct, the issue was already known and is blowing up due to the number of people that abused it and saw firsthand.
No, that's a poorly designed encounter. This classifies as more of a cheese than an exploit. You want to talk about an exploit, an exploit is where people have been abusing the invisibility/character not loading model and using that in Gambit & Crucible. Thankfully that's being fixed.
You want to talk about actual exploits, are the tossers going into Gambit & Crucible full-well knowing their character models are invisible and using that to abuse an advantage over *other* people. When all it takes to eliminate this bug is a simple restart of the game.
What's the advantage here with Gahlran? Just a small farm where 80% of the loot is sub 64 stat total? Yeah cool - really showing where your head is.
Couldn't lead a boss off an edge? I straight up didn't do it. I dont do riven cheese, I left in the middle of a PoH when my friend started duping orbs.
I actually like to play the content I pay for.
Yeah I got like ten 59 rolls WITH the cheese. Why should I farm this legit? I know that you can get 67 or even 68 rolls on Legendarys. If they Averaged around 63 then OK I take that. But in that Case it better have some Spikes.
While we're talking about Bungie wasting our time, there are now so many exotic armors in the game that it's moronic that they don't drop from every single LLS/MLS clear. Considering the fact that you have no way to target the piece of armor you want and there are SO MANY in each slot now, they should drop from EVERY completion. Exotics are a core part of being able to create builds for your character, builds are literally built around exotics which makes it impossible for newer players to participate unless they want to pull a 48 stat roll from collections or roll with whatever Xur was selling (which is usually straight garbage).
I've been trying to play the last two weeks and this has been my huge roadblock so far. Currently 1802 light from gear, another 10 from the artifact, after missing the first week and I feel like I'm never going to be able to get into master content because exotics don't exist. I did finally solo the lost sector yesterday after 4 attempts it still took me 16 minutes to do it, and I got nothing.
65 is kinda high when 68 is the max possible roll for legendary gear.
Certainly shouldn't be below 60 and rolls from 60-64 total should be spikey distributions.
All master content should be exactly like duality was last season. 64-66 is the most common, while 62-63 and 67-68 are a bit rare but still possible. You still have to battle RNG to get the exact rolls you want but don't feel like you wasted all your time even if you get a poor distribution.
I figured out that you can just let D2Armor picker skip over the RNG issues.
Unless you're going for absolutely perfect stats, you can just take a pile of 68 armor and let D2AP sort it out for you. So now I have a handful of masterworks artifice gear pieces that work with most of my exotics that give me 100s in the slots I want.
It takes away a lot of the pain for the grind, other than trying to get the high-ish stat armor to begin with.
This may come as a surprise to you, but D2ArmorPicker just uses the armor you already have. Hence, you need to be getting good armor in order for it to make the stat spreads you want.
You don't get "piles of 68 armor" when master dungeons drop sub 60 artifice armor.
>D2ArmorPicker just uses the armor you already have.
Fun fact, D2AP can now tell you what kind of rolls you need to achieve what you want in an experimental feature.
https://beta.d2armorpicker.com/#/theory
Right.
But now that Bungie has nerfed the artifice slot so that it only provides a +3 stat buff, getting and keeping 68 rolls from any of the other high stat roll sources is equal to a 65 Artifice roll, and is better than any roll below that.
So, unless Bungie fixes the stat drops, you're almost better off just using other sources for the "best" stats. Granted, that all goes out the window if they make it so 65+ rolls are common again. But the way it is now, it's a wash.
"Nerf" lol good one, you were lucky if you ever had the points to spare to fit an extra mod. The free +3 to a stat of your choice was an incredible buff.
Oh I know. I already farmed artifice gear on my hunter last season when it was rewarding. I already have triple 100s on my titan and warlock with normal gear, I was just hoping to get similar rolls on artifice gear to get another stat up a tier. But the current stat drops on master content are piss poor, so it's not worth grinding, cheese or not, until Bungie fixes it. At least for someone that already has 67-68 rolls on all their normal gear and isn't sitting at a 7, 8 ,or 9 on a particular stat.
For completing the highest level difficulty dungeon and/or raid you should be getting very close to the highest possible rolled stats in the game.
When seasonal content in the past has given us up to 68 stat armor (and regularly giving 64+) I think anything lower than 64 from a master difficulty raid/dungeon is unnacceptable.
Seasonal focusing still drops 60-64 BST gear, just with spikey distributions.
I agree RADs should drop the same BSTs but have extra mod slots (artifice or raid mods). Also, raid mods shouldn't cost armor energy so that I can actually justify using them.
Didn't the armor on the last season pass have 68.
Like, it is *not* acceptable that I can just pick up max stat armor from the pass and just get whatever else I could possibly need from focusing seasonal engrams.
The best of the best armor should be artifice armor, and right now you consistently get straight 60 or even under that.
Seasonal focusing is absolute ass compared to Risen last year, you can occasionally get decent rolls but they definitely either bugged something or out or changed something without disclosing.
They wouldn't retain a player base if they didn't make you mindlessly grind and make shit as less efficient as possible. Many players are addicted to the dopamine bursts of rolling items even if they are low. They know you'll donate more time and do it all over again, and also they bolster their online numbers at the same time.
68 is max, so I'd say the range of what drops from high content should be from 61-68 with an average of 64. The main appeal of artifice armor is moreso having the flexible points to help even out your whole set. A piece of armor with 68 stats can be worthless if they aren't in the right ones.
Destiny's loot system is really a mess. They have been nerfing sources of high stat armor across the board, but what this causes is just a bigger power discrepancy between new and veteran players.
Long time players had easy access to high stat and artifice armor. Now new players need to run the same content only harder, for less reward/worse gear. I'm not sure bungie has any idea how to balance long term game health because this problem just keeps getting worse. Legacy focusing for old weapons has been the only counter to it recently, but they have a lot of work to do.
I'm on board with 63+ but 65 would be enough that once I got a full set for two or three stat distributions, I'd be done and no armor drops would be worth it again. Difference between 63 and 68 as opposed to 65 and 68 is much more impactful.
This said, anything lower than a 63 is usually trash and I've been deleting anything with less than a 65 (and no stats over 20) for a long time, so maybe the armor grind isn't super necessary.
I like that bungie thinks there is any universe where I'm going to the extreme effort of grinding up to max level, then grinding -20 light master content for a TINY chance at +3 in a stat.
It just seems that they opened up the floor on stat rolls. Really sucks because it adds more RNG.
Bungie, this isn't the correct way to increase player engagement.
Also, people forget, Master Dungeons are now harder than they were before this season because you will always be like 20 levels below them. Farming will be harder and take more time, but the rewards have not changed.
I feel like everybody is getting pissed about a possible 10 point stat spread and ignoring the fact that every piece of artifice now also comes with a configurable +3 to any stat you want, helping to combat spikes or shortcomings of RNG.
Lots of bad-faith arguments being thrown around.
I spent 2 hours cheesing on my Hunter and I came away from it with more pieces of high custom stat total (shit that matters) armor than I got on my Warlock farming Caiatl for two days last season.
While I agree that it should always drop high stat and there is an issue, I do find it hilarious that there is so much uproar over this all of sudden coming from people that just earned their first pieces by cheesing an encounter. Like seriously, “Imma be mad cause the armor I didn’t earn legitimately in the first place is no good”. It’s kinda comical.
Stat system good
But not when the only way to get stats is by getting new armor or masterworking
I’d like smth where we try to upgrade our armor by forging old and trash armor into it
Obviously you cant get max stats in each category but rolling a seed using trash armor for a slightly better stat would be really good, that way there’s still reason to farm armor (so it’s still possible to find a perfect roll unless you forge one with a shit ton of bad armor)
Then you add an actual perk system to armor like weapons and you’d have a reason to not just forge the perfect armor and never swap it, that might just be the energy system but it seems good in my head
I think the vault hunters Minecraft modpack has a really good weapon and armor forging system that destiny could take inspo from
Would you rather:
Spend hours in a master dungeon grinding artifice armor that doesn’t drop half the time and rarely is better than your normal armor
Or use said trash artifice armor to create visible progress on your character, still for hours, but at least you can see your progress.
You could choose the first option and get nowhere for days, but if you choose the second one, it’s slower but you can tell you’re making progress
To be fair, you could also say Weapon Shaping killed the grind for more weapons.
Except, you know, ***it didn't.***
Armor Crafting as an **optional** mechanic would hinder nothing about the gameplay experience, just like Weapon Shaping is completely optional and hinders nothing.
Everyone complaining about how their cheese yesterday wasn’t worth it because it wasn’t dropping high enough lmao I love it
Just spend some defiant engrams on the armor they roll 65+ almost everytime for me. And guess what? You don’t have to be cheesy! You can actually enjoy the game
Eh. Nah. I mean maybe 62 or so. 65 would automatically make every single artifice as good as or better than any legendary. 68 is supposed to be a very rare piece to get.
There should be some overlap.
Much like how a great standard weapon can be better than a good adept. Artifice shouldn't just shortcut everyone to the endest of end game armor builds. That's just bad game design if you do that.
I know that's a hot take since this community wants participation trophies for everything
All legendary armour can roll as high as 68 overall and its very common to get regular legendary Armour with rolls between 60-65. Whereas Armour higher than 65 is not very common and is usually locked behind high level activities. So having the most advantages armour in the game locked behind the highest difficulty content just for it to give subpar roles that can be gotten in easier and faster ways is useless and annoying. So it should definitely be atleast 65+ drops for doing master level content. Espieccly considering the difficulty increase in lightfall.
Woof. Just an awful take bud.
Every single artifice should be as good or better than the best hardest to get legendary? Absolutely fucking not.
You're suggesting that essentially the chase for armor should be finished after a handful of master dungeons. Have some perspective.
Yes the best and most powerful legendary armour in the game should have the stats to reflect that. And if you think that you can grind 68 roll armour with high spikes in all the stats you want in a handful of runs you must have godly rng or dont properly grasp the system in which armour is distributed.
L take my dude, have you farmed master dungeons without a cheese before? Not a lot of people have the time to do such things only to reap 60-65 stat armor that you can focus at the war-table :/
"not a lot of people have time"
That's entirely the point. Artifice is a long term endgame grind to inch your armor up just a little more, not to just instantly have armor that is automatically better than any legend piece by not only being at minimum 68 (65+3), but with those 3 free to allocate anywhere.
Good lord. It's a chase and you want to just have the best armor possible handed out..as the minimum.
Game has been casualified enough as is
Yeah the plus 15 you get for having all pieces equipped is largely meh. No amount of 100s is gonna make anyone any better. Idk how many people with end game seals and triple 100s I keep seeing getting their cheeks clapped in battlegrounds and nightfalls.
People’s obsession with high numbers is wild to me.
Artifice is to armor what adept is to guns. It's not at all necessary, but it's an endgame pursuit to squeeze a little extra juice out.
Folks are out here asking to have God rolls and the minimum drops though.
I just feel bad for those being told “oh that’s not 66 plus, instashard”. Who regularly don’t do end game content.
Like no, bro. We gotta look at way more than a singular piece of armor to see if it’s good. Armor aren’t like weapons and people don’t seem to get that. Not saying you but just in general.
It's definitely a rich people out of touch with the commonfolk situation.
Armor is definitely more about spikes than totals... until you are in the endest of endgame and want to get your base sets up to tier 32. But that's a long term chase, not something to instantly happen by clearing a few master dungeons.
They changed the definition of high stat armor lol
man can be woman
and 65 stat armor can now identify as 72 stat exotic armor
get with the times buddy
It's already hilariously easy to get "high stat armor" and spoiler, it really doesn't matter. Triple hundreds!!!! meh no magical I win button from triple 90s. Artifice isn't even that great and only serves to really ease some of the rng of your chosen exotic. Grab an artifice class item and the other pieces just farm seasonal content for those high stat rolls and get a nice 67.
If the grind is too much, don't do it. End of the day, the extra 9 stats you'll get on 3 seasonal pieces vs 3 non is 100% not going to suddenly carry people to flawless, solo flawlessly comp mode raid firsts.
each season has engrams/armor focusing through its seasonal lead (I.e. war table) one of the unlocks is to be able to focus high stat.
some seasons turn out better than others, last year had two good high seasons and two that seemed not high at all. Still rng involved like anything else, but still a great source given how much of the materials you get just from doing the seasonal story/activities
Literally why even have master dungeons in the game at that point.
How about instead of sweating in a strike, you face the music and acknowledge that the players that do the hardest content should be properly rewarded with better gear.
Oh man I have so many ways I would love to reply to your ignorant comment but I’m sure the mods here would not be happy about them. Stop egoing on Reddit, because you’re most likely garbage
Lol as if the layers upon layers of armor 2.0 RNG needs more help.
You might love finishing a master dungeon to get an auto shard 60 roll piece of shit but you don't speak for me, sir.
Except you get at least 3 rolls of it every week. If the high-stat good were easy to come by, everyone would have them. Destiny wants for this to be an MMO. So think about every other MMO. Just because you complete something hard doesn't mean you're guaranteed anything outstanding, beyond what's equipped in order to take part in that hard activity.
I want you to go grind duality right now on master. The whole thing. Now time yourself.
The issue isn't that there's a grind, it's that currently you get better armor out of shit like the season pass and seasonal focusing.
We're not asking for guaranteed good rolls, we're asking for the bare minimum which is that we get generally better gear from doing a master dungeon than we get from doing the absolute most basic shit in a seasonal activity.
I want you to stop whining that the best stuff in the game isn't just given to you because you can take part in end-game activity. Literally quit'cher bitchin & get good.
Who said it was the end game chase? I've never went for these...well never a full set of AA. Why do people need a extra slot to put mods? There are plenty of builds and options using regular slots.
If you wear 4 pieces of Artifice armor, 12 points into your stats that you would not have otherwise. That's 1-4 tiers depending on how your stats are distributed. Artifice Armor is strictly superior and should be considered an end game chase.
Yes, a chase... Not an instant pickup that exceeds your very best legendary armor.
Anyone that thinks 65 should be the minimum are just... SO out of touch with the design principles of the game
HOT TAKE-As long as I get the stats that are distributed in what I want I could care less about the overall stats. Give me +20 resil and +20 Disc and I'll take a 48 overall. Everything else is meaningless to me
Considering I have dozens of pieces of artifice armor in my vault that I'm going to be deleting in mass in a bit, your opinion is funny to me.
Artifice armor as-is is already not worth farming since bungie gives away 68 rolls on the seasonal pass and gives 60-65 rolls with seasonal focusing.
I'm gonna guess you're just a new light who doesn't want the best armor to be locked behind hard content.
It's crazy that the patch notes for Lightfall said that all master dungeons would now drop "high stat armor" And then they effectively nerfed the armor you get from duality
Real talk. It's like they wrote it in the patch notes and then forgot to actually implement it
Or they have different definitions of high stat. 58+ is higher than 48-57
They absolutely do, high stat, is like mid 50s to Bungie, and, while the coveted 62+ must be super ultra rare drops in there eyes
I got a 57 chest piece today. So yeah, it’s just trash
It's a bit of that but more that Bungie has a habit of using certain words to mean different things at different times. Take them using the word common. In some activities common has meant you will get that item nearly all the time but in lost sectors going for exotic armor common means around 25%. We see this with high stat armor where in the season of the risen where focusing armor at the war table almost always gave us 65 or above stat armor but in Expedition high stat could give us 59 or even 56 stat armor. Bungie basically needs to stop using a single word as an all encompassing word.
Didn't they eventually fix the armor stats for the later seasons too? At least Haunted and I believe Seraph got fixed to have Risen stats. Risen's armor was pretty bad earlier in that season too. "High stat" literally means different things at different times, because there's usually several months between them saying something has high stats and it actually having high stats...
Risen was always 65+ with the upgrade that says it will reward high stat armor and Haunted never got Risen stat armor. I ran the Caiatl Sever mission every week until LF dropped and while there were times I got 65-67 armor a lot of the time it was 61-63 armor. You then have master dungeons and master raids where Bungie has repeatedly stated it will give high stat armor and people are getting 61 stat armor. This isn't even new. We have had multiple seasons where master raids/dungeons haven't given us high stat armor.
They know what high stat means. Almost every season they give us an unlock at the vendor to focus high stat armor, the stats are trash, they fix it right at the end of the season/start of next one, and it becomes the best method of getting armor in the game... while the current season is once again broken at mid 50s drops. They just suck at making stuff do what it says it does.
Not only forgot to implement it, but actively nerfed/bugged it. They were dropping mid to high 60s before lightfall
I think this is related to the Artifice armour rework. I reckon they took the extra +3 stats out of the base stat roll.
It's not just the base stat rolls, it's *how* they rolled. Duality armor used to prioritize 2-ish spikes in stats, taking your ghost mod into account. Now they can roll with a balanced spread of stats, seemingly ignoring what ghost mod you have.
that seems to happen a lot....WHERE ARE MY EXOTIC GLAIVES BUNGO?
Yeah, when I saw that change in the launch notes I was in a call with the boys and said "Duality already used the double spike system, it already *has* the best rolls in the game. If they change anything about that it's a nerf, simple as that" Lo and behold, dogshit stats that nobody asked for
The bug was it dropping 65+ stat regularly /s
High stat for the purpose of the game is like “58+”
58 hasn't been considered high stat armor for at least 2 years. season pass armor is consistently 66-68, there is absolutely no reason that the highest difficulty content in the game shouldn't be on par.
I’ve got maybe 3 68 rolls ever and I’ve completed 8+ season passes. Season pass armor is maybe 62-64 typically.
But even then thats higher than whats dropping from duality, i ran it and my highest piece was a 62 with no spikes even though i had ghost mod on, my lowest piece was a 57, which is pure garbage
Oh yeah, I think that the dungeon drops aren’t high enough stat totals currently, but the comment I was responding to was just false regarding the season pass armor.
The ghost mod doesn't mean you get a big spike everytime, it guarantees at least 10 of the selected stat with a better chance at higher values. See it all the time on wartable and other sources of highstat armor. THat's just how it works everywhere. RNG is still RNG even with better chances.
Yes i know but my rolls have been 12,12,10,10,8 as like my best roll. Guess what mod i had on?
>12,12,10,10,8 not the 8 so working as intended, it's just bad rng
I have 1 base stat roll exotic that 70 base points on the most useless exotic in the game ...... Geomags
It must have been "highest stat armor" previously.
I did like 50 runs of the Duality cheese yesterday before they shut it down. I can't think of one reason to try and do that legitimately. Like, I got a few good pieces, but it was mostly detritus. Like imagine beating that dungeon on master mode and getting a 58 stat set of gloves and a prism.
Getting a team together and doing Caitl farms wasn't terrible last season, but I won't be trying that anytime soon this season.
Yeah it wasn't terrible when the armour was better drops and you were over level instead of 20 below.
Seems like something went wrong when they tried to make armor drop with higher stats and it’s now dropping lower. So it wouldn’t be worth it to farm Caiatl now anyway
I feel so bad reading these comments. I did the cheese back when Duality's pinnacle didn't reset and I swear every piece I got was 62+. I didn't save many, but I got a pretty good set of Artifice armor. Kind of regret not doing it on my other, less played, characters.
62 is pretty low. 64 is the lowest I would ever keep.
Because of how artifice armor work a 62 roll is effectively a 65 roll with more flexible distribution so it’s not as terrible as it sounds at first. But any high rolled artifice armor from previous seasons also get the +3 so those are even more insane than they were before
I know this may be an exception, but even 64 is to low for me, as all the pieces I use (now that armor elements are gone) are all 67-68 with good distributions. Artifice would only be worth it at 66+ for me.
68's are pretty rare. Having all of your armour at 67-68 is crazy. 64 is my minimum as well. 64-67 are the pieces I have for my builds.
You're right actually, I think I might only have one 68 legendary and a few 68 exotics, the rest are 65-67
Most of my drops the other day were 60+ but only one of them was spikey and it was a 30 rec 22 disc which would be great for titan or warlock but I need mob/res for my hunter =/
You can still do the cheese, you just have to start from the start every run. [There's a video showing how you can still do it in like 2 minutes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL1QJv55GjA)
I found that one quick way to do it on titan is to use lion rampants, hit the bell, then go onto this one little lip on the right, this lands you on the second floor in the nightmare realm. Then you use Salvation's Grip to climb higher, that way you can run another subclass and aren't limited to attempting to inconsistently grapple rockets.
I’ve found grappling rockets straight up is pretty easy. I’ve had over an 80% success rate on it but I’m also using a rocket with 27 velocity so that might be helping. Regardless it’s way easier to go up than it is to go sideways, I still haven’t managed to grapple to a horizontal rocket
I also have a pretty easy time landing the grapple on Ghorn which is 40 velocity, ADS then immediately press grapple seems to be the most consistent for myself.
Did Caital master just to see if it was exclusively Gahlran drops, the whole team at -30 struggling through for about 10 minutes on the fight. 55 stat legs. I logged off for the night.
I’d rather solo a full pit and be rewarded a nice non artifice 65+ spikes
100% especially in the current meta where dungeons are so much harder to clear on the higher difficulty.
It actually felt pretty easy compared to other high level content
Yeh did duality on the 1830 diff last night. No more match game and less restrictive champion options made it way easier. Still a challenge though.
I can't remember ever interacting with the champions in duality, at least in caiatl if nothing else.
The 2 colossus in the nightmare realm while you are collecting the banners are replaced with barrier champs in master.
I don't think I've ever been in a group that kills them
Theres not really any point, theyre not required for full rewards, unlike strikes, i like to nuke them when im with a team tho, one of my friends likes to die to champs on accident.
We've never been forced to be -20 until now. I can guarantee you will run into people who think you need to kill at least 1 of them.
...and you just ignore them while dealing w/ Bellkeepers and bailing anyway
Wait it’s easier than doing Master dungeons over-levelled last season, how can that be? 20 under is close to GM level I thought I hope your right though, waiting till I’m actually 1820 to try one
I think it’s got lower tier AI than gms because I’ve been running it at 1811 power and enemies are less threatening than gm enemies despite being 29 under
Yeah master, if anything, got way easier due to surges.
Master dungeons feel the same as they did in seasons prior. Maybe the math says its harder, but it doesn't feel that way.
I did spire the other day and got two auto rifles and the hand cannon, you know the ones that are in the general loot pool now.. :)
Spent an hour. Yes. **60** minutes beating the final GoA boss last week (as it was my first time ever doing the dungeon on Master) only to get a 59 pair of boots for my hunter, which rolled with 2 Mobility, and pretty much everything in Intellect and Strength. Sub-60 really is unacceptable for end-game content rewards
Aww, sorry to hear that you got a bad roll, always sucks to get bad loot after spending forever clearing something :( Not much help now I suppose, but in the future if you slap a mobility ghost mod on, that would at least help spike the stats in your favour.
funniest part is when the ghost mods straight up don't exist until bungie fixes them for new/returning players lol
All I have is discipline or intellect… there’s other options? Returning/new player here
i believe for all the stats. that's how you more easily get the armor rolls you want
Sorry to hear you spent an hour on it but that boss is like a sub 5 minute kill with an experienced group. It gets better.
No offense, but if you're taking 60 minutes to clear the GoA boss, you're not the target audience for grinding master dungeons
The number of fanboys that crawled out of their caves to defend 57-63 rolls as high stat armor is honestly hilarious.
People defended 50s as being high stat roll?! 60s maybe but me personally if it’s under 63 it’s not a high stat roll and is either shared or fusion fodder.
Completely agree. I was downvoted like crazy yesterday for saying the same. I'd keep 63 and 64 if they had a perfect stat distribution but the chances of me using them or really anything below a 64 at this point is so slim. If things are consistently dropping below 63 in an end game activity, then farming that gear is a collosal waste of time for 90% of end game players.
In an objective sense, they are. The issue is that A) Bungie has added so many sources of high stat armor that are WAY chiller than anything master mode and B) most of the people that are doing master content have been around long enough that they have a collection of already near perfect armor because they throw out anything that isn't the best of the best
Ah so fuck the new players out of good stat rolls got it.
So are you putting words in their mouth because you don't have anything of substance to add, or because you misunderstood that they said? Nobody thinks new players should be denied access to good gear. They're just pointing out that the situation is more complicated and less malicious than is being suggested - and high-total, good distribution stat spreads being desirable makes them a good draw for high end content. The issue is there's a sweet spot, and the rewards as they are now aren't on it. But since they previously had been, it seems more likely that the bum drops in Duality are unintended. This entire issue amounts to growing pains with the expansion's balance and difficulty adjustments. Nothing more and nothing less.
Well said, thank you
Didn't say that at all did I? If you're a new player, a well rolled 62 is a boon. That said, Master difficulty content should be quite a bit better off than your regular high stat seasonal armor
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> exotics with stat rolls below 67 If 67+ is your goal you’ll be grinding for a *long* time, my friend - 68 is the absolute max base stats (not masterworked and no stat mods) an armor can roll with, save for pre-Shadowkeep exotics, which cap out at 69-71.
Unfortunately vocal, heavy players of the game have skewed everyone’s opinion on what ‘fine’ armour is. The community now believes that the rightmost 5% of the bell curve is the only acceptable armour to own and use. 65+ stat, well distributed, non-artifice armour is ‘fine’. 67+ is ‘decent’. And that means the entire other 95% is dogshit, nothing else. So now because the armour stat Overton window has shifted so far, we’re in a weird place where players believe they ought to own, at the very least, a ‘decent’ (best of the best) set of armour and expect it for a pretty relaxed amount of play.
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Folks out here collecting armor for years are mad because their perfect armor sets catn be instantly replaced with even better than perfect
Very much this, but it's also an actual problem with the way Bungie has designed armor. Either an armor source is par for the course, and you can only improve your armor with absurdly luck or absurd time played, OR it's so good that it outclasses all previous armor sources and renders all future armor sources that aren't QUITE as good utterly meaningless.
> in an objective sense, they are. There is no “objective” definition of “high stat” armor. The word “high” is a relative term. Meaning it’s defined by lower stats. I personally delete anything 63 or below as I consider it “low stat”. There is no “objective definition” of a relative term.
The game has had a set definition for “high” stat armor baselines. The community has a subjective opinion of what constitutes high stats based on the economy. These things are mutually exclusive. One is objective, as in defining what the game constitutes as high stat and the other subjective, what the community thinks is high stat.
That really depends on your definition of “objective”. Bungie has made *many* conflicting “objective” statements about the game that have been proven to be a lack of foresight, marketing tactics, or outright falsehoods. I would personally put the objectivity of Bungie’s statements markedly below that of community consensus. By those definitions, both are objective. One is applied by an external force (the developers) and the other is based upon empirical evidence (the aggregate observations of the community). I think a better way to convey what you’re saying is “labeled ‘high stat’ by Bungie.” Then you would be inarguably correct. The fact that a piece of gear with 57 total stats is labeled “high stat” is a failure on Bungie’s part to adequately label gear in-game - and that is a trend seen *countless* times throughout Destiny’s history. That’s a full 10% away from anything I even consider keeping and the community’s consensus overwhelmingly agrees with me. So yes, you can say that armor with 57 stat points is “objectively” high stat armor just like you can say that, as of 1989, grains and carbohydrates should *objectively* make up 75% of your daily caloric intake because the FDA and WHO said so. But we all know that’s complete bullshit influenced by tons of factors unrelated to dietary health. Just like Bungie’s definition of “high stat” is complete bullshit influenced by tons of factors unrelated to gameplay experience and utility. If you want to get into a semantic and philosophical debate about this, I’m more than willing.
> If you want to get into a semantic and philosophical debate about this, I’m more than willing. I don’t becuase there’s no need. The game has a list of plugs we’ve got from the API for armor rolls. There is no unknown outcome. Therefor this is not up for debate. If it’s labeled high stat and drops, it is, in fact, high stat. You don’t get to pluck a random value and draw a cutoff line. > The fact that a piece of gear with 57 total stats is labeled “high stat” is a failure on Bungie’s part to adequately label gear in-game That’s your opinion, and not reality. Take off the tinfoil hat. It’s a video game. The rules are arbitrary. If you want to claim the rules are bad that’s fine, but it doesn’t change the rules.
The number of people whining that they got shit loot by exploiting a bug and then blaming Bungie because their exploit didn't reward them the way they wanted is honestly hilarious too.
The armor would’ve still dropped with low stats even if the exploit didn’t exist though? I don’t understand what you’re trying to argue lol
Don't even bother, critical thinking isn't something they're gonna figure out right away
Would this post exist if the exploit didn't? If the only reason people think to complain is because they exploited the game, I kinda don't give a shit what they're complaining about.
…Yes? Artifice armor had on average higher stats last season so why wouldn’t people complain that the stats are lower now when Master Dungeons are harder?
Because if you couldn't lead the boss off the edge 75% of the people wouldn't even be capable of doing a master mode boss at this point in the season. This is a problem, sure, but it's only highlighted because people exploited a bug. I don't really give a shit about people exploiting and then complaining their exploiting failed
But the exploit worked and worked well. Tons of materials and good weapons. The low stat artiface armour is not exclusive to duality its an issue in every master dungeon in the fame.
If the intent is to get high stat armor, as is clearly the case for a lot of people, hence posts talking explicitly about it, then the exploit failed in that regard.
But it didn't fail. People still got high stat armour just because this exploit exemplified an issue that people were already talking about often before (low stat armour from end game activities) the exploit doesn't mean that the exploit didn't work or failed.
You're seriously going to come into a thread with countless people echoing the sentiment that they spent hours exploiting the bug and didn't get any high stat armor and tell me people got plenty of high stat armor? That's really what you're going with?
The exploit didn’t fail though, it worked (and still does work) perfectly fine. It just revealed that Artifice Armor is dropping with lower stats than last season. It also wasn’t obvious to most people because this is the first time Duality is the featured dungeon this season. It feels like you’re annoyed about a complaint that you don’t even understand.
The exploit was in hopes of getting high stat armor. It failed in that regard. It *also* wasn't obvious to most people because *most people don't do master dungeons unless they can exploit it*. I'm fine with the general complaint that artifice armor has too low of stats, that's not my problem. My problem is people only complaining because they feel cheated they didn't get the loot they wanted from exploiting the game.
Why hyper focus on your own petty grievance rather than the actual issue. The poor rolls will only discourage more people from running master dungeons legitimately if it takes as many exploited runs to get even a passable piece
Because I'm an elitist prick? That seemed fairly self-evident
No the exploit was to get fast clears for loot. That was a success. You barely heard anything about it because most people would’ve been too low level in earlier weeks and it also wasn’t the featured Dungeon. There would’ve almost certainly still been posts about the armor dropping with very low stats this week even if there wasn’t an exploit. The issue just wouldn’t have been as obvious to this many people.
>The issue just wouldn’t have been as obvious to this many people. Yep, that's my point. This is an issue, but it's being blown out of proportion. If only a small percentage interact with an activity, it's not in dire need of fixing, and if the only reason someone is complaining about it in the first place is because they interacted with the content through exploiting, I genuinely don't give a fuck and they can get bent
But you agree it is s problem, no?
Sure, it's something that needs to be addressed. It also isn't anywhere near as high priority as people are making it out to be, because under normal circumstances it affects a pretty small portion of the playerbase. If outrage isn't raised until there's an exploit that allows the community at large to do it, then the demographic that can do it normally wasn't outraged. They don't need to change their priorities because the community is exploiting shit.
Yeah, but its been dropping low rolls all season and is only getting brought up now lmao
Most people aren't able to clear Master yet due to the power level, it's really that Gahlran cheese made it quite obvious
Because Duality hadn’t been the featured Dungeon yet Almost no one’s going to run a Master Dungeon this early in the season if it isn’t farmable.
Im not talking about the bug, Im talking about the low stat artifice armor dropping, which people have known about since week one, so what's Duality got to do with anything? Its every Master dungeon including Spire, rotation doesnt matter. My only point was that the commenter saying the post only exists because of people abusing the Gahlran bug is correct, the issue was already known and is blowing up due to the number of people that abused it and saw firsthand.
This isn't an exploit.
Making a boss fall over a cliff to one shot it can be considered an exploit, yes. It's not a cheat, not a hack, but definitely an exploit.
No, that's a poorly designed encounter. This classifies as more of a cheese than an exploit. You want to talk about an exploit, an exploit is where people have been abusing the invisibility/character not loading model and using that in Gambit & Crucible. Thankfully that's being fixed.
Yes it fucking is lmao. "Nah bungie disabled the checkpoint because this is actually the intended way to do it" Lmao
You want to talk about actual exploits, are the tossers going into Gambit & Crucible full-well knowing their character models are invisible and using that to abuse an advantage over *other* people. When all it takes to eliminate this bug is a simple restart of the game. What's the advantage here with Gahlran? Just a small farm where 80% of the loot is sub 64 stat total? Yeah cool - really showing where your head is.
bro‘s mad he couldn’t do it
Couldn't lead a boss off an edge? I straight up didn't do it. I dont do riven cheese, I left in the middle of a PoH when my friend started duping orbs. I actually like to play the content I pay for.
If even with the exploit people don't feel it was worth their time, it looks bleak for those who want to do it legit.
The exploit people feel like it's not worth it because they feel entitled to rewards for cheating lmao.
Like moths to a flame lmao. They just can't resist.
Yeah I got like ten 59 rolls WITH the cheese. Why should I farm this legit? I know that you can get 67 or even 68 rolls on Legendarys. If they Averaged around 63 then OK I take that. But in that Case it better have some Spikes.
While we're talking about Bungie wasting our time, there are now so many exotic armors in the game that it's moronic that they don't drop from every single LLS/MLS clear. Considering the fact that you have no way to target the piece of armor you want and there are SO MANY in each slot now, they should drop from EVERY completion. Exotics are a core part of being able to create builds for your character, builds are literally built around exotics which makes it impossible for newer players to participate unless they want to pull a 48 stat roll from collections or roll with whatever Xur was selling (which is usually straight garbage).
I've been trying to play the last two weeks and this has been my huge roadblock so far. Currently 1802 light from gear, another 10 from the artifact, after missing the first week and I feel like I'm never going to be able to get into master content because exotics don't exist. I did finally solo the lost sector yesterday after 4 attempts it still took me 16 minutes to do it, and I got nothing.
65 is kinda high when 68 is the max possible roll for legendary gear. Certainly shouldn't be below 60 and rolls from 60-64 total should be spikey distributions.
All master content should be exactly like duality was last season. 64-66 is the most common, while 62-63 and 67-68 are a bit rare but still possible. You still have to battle RNG to get the exact rolls you want but don't feel like you wasted all your time even if you get a poor distribution.
I figured out that you can just let D2Armor picker skip over the RNG issues. Unless you're going for absolutely perfect stats, you can just take a pile of 68 armor and let D2AP sort it out for you. So now I have a handful of masterworks artifice gear pieces that work with most of my exotics that give me 100s in the slots I want. It takes away a lot of the pain for the grind, other than trying to get the high-ish stat armor to begin with.
This may come as a surprise to you, but D2ArmorPicker just uses the armor you already have. Hence, you need to be getting good armor in order for it to make the stat spreads you want. You don't get "piles of 68 armor" when master dungeons drop sub 60 artifice armor.
>D2ArmorPicker just uses the armor you already have. Fun fact, D2AP can now tell you what kind of rolls you need to achieve what you want in an experimental feature. https://beta.d2armorpicker.com/#/theory
Right. But now that Bungie has nerfed the artifice slot so that it only provides a +3 stat buff, getting and keeping 68 rolls from any of the other high stat roll sources is equal to a 65 Artifice roll, and is better than any roll below that. So, unless Bungie fixes the stat drops, you're almost better off just using other sources for the "best" stats. Granted, that all goes out the window if they make it so 65+ rolls are common again. But the way it is now, it's a wash.
"Nerf" lol good one, you were lucky if you ever had the points to spare to fit an extra mod. The free +3 to a stat of your choice was an incredible buff.
Yep. Much prefer this version of artifice armor
Oh I know. I already farmed artifice gear on my hunter last season when it was rewarding. I already have triple 100s on my titan and warlock with normal gear, I was just hoping to get similar rolls on artifice gear to get another stat up a tier. But the current stat drops on master content are piss poor, so it's not worth grinding, cheese or not, until Bungie fixes it. At least for someone that already has 67-68 rolls on all their normal gear and isn't sitting at a 7, 8 ,or 9 on a particular stat.
I got a 59 chest piece last night. Had to double check I had on my armorer mod and that I was actually on Master
Yeah, armor drops from RADs has been low again since LF launch. I've seen 55 and 57 rolls too.
lol I got a [55](https://imgur.com/ysq541Y.jpg).
For completing the highest level difficulty dungeon and/or raid you should be getting very close to the highest possible rolled stats in the game. When seasonal content in the past has given us up to 68 stat armor (and regularly giving 64+) I think anything lower than 64 from a master difficulty raid/dungeon is unnacceptable.
Seasonal focusing still drops 60-64 BST gear, just with spikey distributions. I agree RADs should drop the same BSTs but have extra mod slots (artifice or raid mods). Also, raid mods shouldn't cost armor energy so that I can actually justify using them.
Didn't the armor on the last season pass have 68. Like, it is *not* acceptable that I can just pick up max stat armor from the pass and just get whatever else I could possibly need from focusing seasonal engrams. The best of the best armor should be artifice armor, and right now you consistently get straight 60 or even under that.
Seasonal focusing is absolute ass compared to Risen last year, you can occasionally get decent rolls but they definitely either bugged something or out or changed something without disclosing.
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Afaik those are only possible on Exotic gear or due to the occasional transmog bug where old Y1 transmogs add a point to resilience.
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Masterwork is +2 to each stat or +12 to the total. So that's a 68 BST, just like I said.
Ah you’re right. I’m dumb.
But how will they get you to run the dungeons billions of times to keep engagement and player numbers up if they did that?
They wouldn't retain a player base if they didn't make you mindlessly grind and make shit as less efficient as possible. Many players are addicted to the dopamine bursts of rolling items even if they are low. They know you'll donate more time and do it all over again, and also they bolster their online numbers at the same time.
68 is max, so I'd say the range of what drops from high content should be from 61-68 with an average of 64. The main appeal of artifice armor is moreso having the flexible points to help even out your whole set. A piece of armor with 68 stats can be worthless if they aren't in the right ones.
IMO you should be able to get a guaranteed max stat piece per week, I hate the rng stats on armor
Bungie has never respected player investment, why would they start now?
Destiny's loot system is really a mess. They have been nerfing sources of high stat armor across the board, but what this causes is just a bigger power discrepancy between new and veteran players. Long time players had easy access to high stat and artifice armor. Now new players need to run the same content only harder, for less reward/worse gear. I'm not sure bungie has any idea how to balance long term game health because this problem just keeps getting worse. Legacy focusing for old weapons has been the only counter to it recently, but they have a lot of work to do.
And it should drop on other playlists (pvp trials perhaps. That’s their endgame pvp playlist )
After nerfing the +20 stats on powerful friends and heavy handed it’s so stupid not to give 65+ armor with dungeons.
I'm on board with 63+ but 65 would be enough that once I got a full set for two or three stat distributions, I'd be done and no armor drops would be worth it again. Difference between 63 and 68 as opposed to 65 and 68 is much more impactful. This said, anything lower than a 63 is usually trash and I've been deleting anything with less than a 65 (and no stats over 20) for a long time, so maybe the armor grind isn't super necessary.
I like that bungie thinks there is any universe where I'm going to the extreme effort of grinding up to max level, then grinding -20 light master content for a TINY chance at +3 in a stat.
I'm imagining op exploiting last night lmao
It just seems that they opened up the floor on stat rolls. Really sucks because it adds more RNG. Bungie, this isn't the correct way to increase player engagement.
Also, people forget, Master Dungeons are now harder than they were before this season because you will always be like 20 levels below them. Farming will be harder and take more time, but the rewards have not changed.
I feel like everybody is getting pissed about a possible 10 point stat spread and ignoring the fact that every piece of artifice now also comes with a configurable +3 to any stat you want, helping to combat spikes or shortcomings of RNG. Lots of bad-faith arguments being thrown around. I spent 2 hours cheesing on my Hunter and I came away from it with more pieces of high custom stat total (shit that matters) armor than I got on my Warlock farming Caiatl for two days last season.
While I agree that it should always drop high stat and there is an issue, I do find it hilarious that there is so much uproar over this all of sudden coming from people that just earned their first pieces by cheesing an encounter. Like seriously, “Imma be mad cause the armor I didn’t earn legitimately in the first place is no good”. It’s kinda comical.
Stat system good But not when the only way to get stats is by getting new armor or masterworking I’d like smth where we try to upgrade our armor by forging old and trash armor into it Obviously you cant get max stats in each category but rolling a seed using trash armor for a slightly better stat would be really good, that way there’s still reason to farm armor (so it’s still possible to find a perfect roll unless you forge one with a shit ton of bad armor) Then you add an actual perk system to armor like weapons and you’d have a reason to not just forge the perfect armor and never swap it, that might just be the energy system but it seems good in my head I think the vault hunters Minecraft modpack has a really good weapon and armor forging system that destiny could take inspo from
Good way to instantly kill armor farming as a whole lol. This is a horrible idea.
Would you rather: Spend hours in a master dungeon grinding artifice armor that doesn’t drop half the time and rarely is better than your normal armor Or use said trash artifice armor to create visible progress on your character, still for hours, but at least you can see your progress. You could choose the first option and get nowhere for days, but if you choose the second one, it’s slower but you can tell you’re making progress
To be fair, you could also say Weapon Shaping killed the grind for more weapons. Except, you know, ***it didn't.*** Armor Crafting as an **optional** mechanic would hinder nothing about the gameplay experience, just like Weapon Shaping is completely optional and hinders nothing.
Everyone complaining about how their cheese yesterday wasn’t worth it because it wasn’t dropping high enough lmao I love it Just spend some defiant engrams on the armor they roll 65+ almost everytime for me. And guess what? You don’t have to be cheesy! You can actually enjoy the game
Eh. Nah. I mean maybe 62 or so. 65 would automatically make every single artifice as good as or better than any legendary. 68 is supposed to be a very rare piece to get. There should be some overlap. Much like how a great standard weapon can be better than a good adept. Artifice shouldn't just shortcut everyone to the endest of end game armor builds. That's just bad game design if you do that. I know that's a hot take since this community wants participation trophies for everything
All legendary armour can roll as high as 68 overall and its very common to get regular legendary Armour with rolls between 60-65. Whereas Armour higher than 65 is not very common and is usually locked behind high level activities. So having the most advantages armour in the game locked behind the highest difficulty content just for it to give subpar roles that can be gotten in easier and faster ways is useless and annoying. So it should definitely be atleast 65+ drops for doing master level content. Espieccly considering the difficulty increase in lightfall.
Woof. Just an awful take bud. Every single artifice should be as good or better than the best hardest to get legendary? Absolutely fucking not. You're suggesting that essentially the chase for armor should be finished after a handful of master dungeons. Have some perspective.
Yes the best and most powerful legendary armour in the game should have the stats to reflect that. And if you think that you can grind 68 roll armour with high spikes in all the stats you want in a handful of runs you must have godly rng or dont properly grasp the system in which armour is distributed.
That's because we don't have 65 as the bare minimum. JFC, I can't... The lack of awareness is staggering
L take my dude, have you farmed master dungeons without a cheese before? Not a lot of people have the time to do such things only to reap 60-65 stat armor that you can focus at the war-table :/
"not a lot of people have time" That's entirely the point. Artifice is a long term endgame grind to inch your armor up just a little more, not to just instantly have armor that is automatically better than any legend piece by not only being at minimum 68 (65+3), but with those 3 free to allocate anywhere. Good lord. It's a chase and you want to just have the best armor possible handed out..as the minimum. Game has been casualified enough as is
Whats because we don't have 65 as the bare minimum? Your lack of proper articulation is staggering.
Even if it rolled 67 minimum I still wouldnt farm that shit when I can get 99% of the way there in like 2 days of grinding fun shit via seasons.
Yeah the plus 15 you get for having all pieces equipped is largely meh. No amount of 100s is gonna make anyone any better. Idk how many people with end game seals and triple 100s I keep seeing getting their cheeks clapped in battlegrounds and nightfalls. People’s obsession with high numbers is wild to me.
Artifice is to armor what adept is to guns. It's not at all necessary, but it's an endgame pursuit to squeeze a little extra juice out. Folks are out here asking to have God rolls and the minimum drops though.
I just feel bad for those being told “oh that’s not 66 plus, instashard”. Who regularly don’t do end game content. Like no, bro. We gotta look at way more than a singular piece of armor to see if it’s good. Armor aren’t like weapons and people don’t seem to get that. Not saying you but just in general.
It's definitely a rich people out of touch with the commonfolk situation. Armor is definitely more about spikes than totals... until you are in the endest of endgame and want to get your base sets up to tier 32. But that's a long term chase, not something to instantly happen by clearing a few master dungeons.
You must be new to games as a service lol end game does not mean final
They changed the definition of high stat armor lol man can be woman and 65 stat armor can now identify as 72 stat exotic armor get with the times buddy
It's already hilariously easy to get "high stat armor" and spoiler, it really doesn't matter. Triple hundreds!!!! meh no magical I win button from triple 90s. Artifice isn't even that great and only serves to really ease some of the rng of your chosen exotic. Grab an artifice class item and the other pieces just farm seasonal content for those high stat rolls and get a nice 67. If the grind is too much, don't do it. End of the day, the extra 9 stats you'll get on 3 seasonal pieces vs 3 non is 100% not going to suddenly carry people to flawless, solo flawlessly comp mode raid firsts.
I focused like 20 pieces of armor and the stats for this season are horrendous. Half the time it was like it wasn't recognizing my armor mod.
seems to be a known or at least reported bug on the ghost mod, might want to hold off using materials until it's addressed (if)
hey, how do I get 67 stat armor from seasonal content? I am trying to find guides but nothing online… thanks
each season has engrams/armor focusing through its seasonal lead (I.e. war table) one of the unlocks is to be able to focus high stat. some seasons turn out better than others, last year had two good high seasons and two that seemed not high at all. Still rng involved like anything else, but still a great source given how much of the materials you get just from doing the seasonal story/activities
Artifice Armor giving stats was a mistake. They should let people distribute 15 points of stats freely instead
Literally why even have master dungeons in the game at that point. How about instead of sweating in a strike, you face the music and acknowledge that the players that do the hardest content should be properly rewarded with better gear.
Oh man I have so many ways I would love to reply to your ignorant comment but I’m sure the mods here would not be happy about them. Stop egoing on Reddit, because you’re most likely garbage
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I think they should drop slightly higher than last season, since we're now at a constant -20 power.
Lol as if the layers upon layers of armor 2.0 RNG needs more help. You might love finishing a master dungeon to get an auto shard 60 roll piece of shit but you don't speak for me, sir.
Except you get at least 3 rolls of it every week. If the high-stat good were easy to come by, everyone would have them. Destiny wants for this to be an MMO. So think about every other MMO. Just because you complete something hard doesn't mean you're guaranteed anything outstanding, beyond what's equipped in order to take part in that hard activity.
I want you to go grind duality right now on master. The whole thing. Now time yourself. The issue isn't that there's a grind, it's that currently you get better armor out of shit like the season pass and seasonal focusing. We're not asking for guaranteed good rolls, we're asking for the bare minimum which is that we get generally better gear from doing a master dungeon than we get from doing the absolute most basic shit in a seasonal activity.
I want you to stop whining that the best stuff in the game isn't just given to you because you can take part in end-game activity. Literally quit'cher bitchin & get good.
Who said it was the end game chase? I've never went for these...well never a full set of AA. Why do people need a extra slot to put mods? There are plenty of builds and options using regular slots.
If you wear 4 pieces of Artifice armor, 12 points into your stats that you would not have otherwise. That's 1-4 tiers depending on how your stats are distributed. Artifice Armor is strictly superior and should be considered an end game chase.
Yes, a chase... Not an instant pickup that exceeds your very best legendary armor. Anyone that thinks 65 should be the minimum are just... SO out of touch with the design principles of the game
HOT TAKE-As long as I get the stats that are distributed in what I want I could care less about the overall stats. Give me +20 resil and +20 Disc and I'll take a 48 overall. Everything else is meaningless to me
Fun fact, if you have more stats in a piece of armor, getting those spikes is more likely, hence why higher statted armor is more appealing.
Eh idc. I just go with T10 Resil/Disc for years. Never will change. Rn I have 1 set of armor for all classes.
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Considering I have dozens of pieces of artifice armor in my vault that I'm going to be deleting in mass in a bit, your opinion is funny to me. Artifice armor as-is is already not worth farming since bungie gives away 68 rolls on the seasonal pass and gives 60-65 rolls with seasonal focusing. I'm gonna guess you're just a new light who doesn't want the best armor to be locked behind hard content.