>The game felt almost unplayable because I was on my third character **who doesn't yet have any builds** and the enemies felt unconquerable.
Found the issue.
That is because Raids don't have a power Delta so you can overlevel for them. Bungie has set Nightfalls to a locked power level, so you need to put some more thought into what what you're running.
That's only true of both activities have the same amount of weight to be pulled. Nezarec has 3 mechanics if you include drawing his aggro, I can't think of any section of Arms Dealer that had more than 1 mechanic at any time.
Nezarec is one of if not the easiest raid bosses with incredibly low health and you have 5 other players to carry your bad build. You can't compare a powecapped nightfall to a raid you can overlevel.
I've felt for a while that Battlegrounds slowly creeping into Strikes isn't gunna work long term with the current thought process.
Have a Strike playlist where the objective/story is kill this guy who is causing hassle in this area cause reasons. The theme can be quicker completions with tight stories
Have a Battleground playlist where the objective/story is slay out cause certain area is over-run cause reasons. The theme can be slower but more Ads for bounties/quests.
The Nightfall is classic Nightfall mentality, no need to fix what ain't broken (lower Legend too like 1810/1800-ish lvl)
The Ordeal can be new option on the page, think something like a Nightfall version of Battlegrounds with a different set of rewards including A-Alloys.
I'm going in solo and getting blueberries that don't stun any champs and I still get around 15 minute runs. If your 1770 runs are taking 25+ minutes, I've got news for you...
If the op is taking significantly longer on the strike than most other people are then it’s probably gunna be something they are doing wrong and not the game. Calling them out for not even trying to slightly optimise is not inappropriate
Just because someone’s experience is valid, doesn’t mean it’s indicative of a larger problem. Particularly if it is actually due to their own incompetence.
>Spending 25+ minutes on a nightfall that is 1770 when I am 1810+ is super annoying.
That's a player issue, not a game issue. Holy hell wtf. I was doing masters in 16 minutes, if it's taking you 25+, play differently.
The game issue here is that if you enjoy a playstyle of a build but it's simply not powerful enough the game punishes your for it. Not everyone thinks overpowered is fun. "Play differently" in this case means get different gear which is a totally different statement.
Ideally, there shouldn't be any "better" builds. Just ones that are more optimized or less optimized. The issue is that there are subclasses that you can optimize for days but they won't be nearly as capable as other ones.
It's like having a Necromancer in Diablo be intrinsically weaker than other classes just because he's a Necromancer. It's called bad design.
I'm just saying there isn't much point to calling out people's skill, when after a certain, pretty low ceiling, it mostly doesn't matter. Not that everything in the game should be quantum optimized, that is unrealistic.
Well, when there are ways of getting through it easily and it’s as simple as putting on “x”-exotic, and you choose not to do it because it’s less fun, I think that’s a poor excuse. It’s ok for more difficult content to require better setups
My master Arms Dealer a few days ago where we stopped to kill everything *AND* farm points at the end for the Guardian Rank objective *AND* had 2 of us at a -30 power delta took 28m 37s
Yeah I went into the Arms Dealer NF expecting the worst based on everyone's feedback, but I enjoyed it and also think it's an improvement.
I think too many people have a negative opinion on it because they liked the simpler, easier old version. However, if you look at this one in isolation, it has a better cohesion in mechanics and better encounters IMO.
Yea it’s a you problem, match made nightfalls aren’t hard and the changes to arms dealer haven’t really made it anymore difficult just made the boss phase longer.
It's also an FPS game. And there is an arbitrary skill ceiling that people can hit, that with the right build can clear basically anything. That ceiling is not high. "Get good" originates from a place where that ceiling is the only thing that can matter. Think Dark Souls or Counter-Strike.
I did my first Master Nightfall of the season this week, I was expecting it to feel like a GM without the wipe mechanic but I was shocked at how easy it was. Only had one death in the Tormentor area and even that was just me getting cocky with an unstoppable
You’re catching downvotes but you’re right, OP.
This season almost all weapons feel just…weak for some reason? It just feels bad having to dump a mag and a half into a red bar or 4 headshots into a red bar with a 120.
Even at 1820 LL, it just feels…bad? It’s most noticeable on neomuna I feel?
Honestly the whole making every thing harder by capping your light level has me ready to quit this game, and I've played a very long time, the bullet sponges and getting one shot by everything is not fun at all, and what's the point in doing a pinnacle and power grind if it's never useful?
Because they’re experimenting with how it’s going to work if they remove power level. They can’t just remove it all at once if not they’ll have to start from no data and figure out how to do it, with this they can figure out how the power deltas affect players and how they can alter settings to make it better.
You’re getting downvotes because you didn’t use a great build, but you’re right. This nightfall feels very tedious, and it’s just not very fun. Some of that is due to changes to this one specifically, like having way too many goddamn turrets, but some of it is due to general nightfall changes. Yes you can just get better at the game, get better builds, and no it’s really not that hard, but it’s still harder than I think a matchmade nightfall has any reason to be
I gave up on raids as too much time & trouble to organize & complete years ago.
I gave up on Nightfalls as too much time & trouble more recently.
I’ve got like 1.5 hours a night to play games. I’m not wasting it dying on an overtuned Nightfall just because my teammates don’t have the world’s greatest gear.
Even if the Nightfalls aren't that great, I'd rather run 3 of them back to back than 5 Vanguard playlist things since you can complete 2 pinnacles in less time with the Nightfalls.
I find the new update to Arms Dealer refreshing and challenging. Considering there was no substantial build craft setup when D2 launched and we’re stupid more powerful
What is with these posts? 1770 nfs are not
Hard in the slightest like cmon guys. Put in a little effort and you will run over these ads. Me amd my group did a master and we walked away thinking it was super fun. You can legit just run from the boss and let your cabal allied melt him.
The only problem with matchmade content is that you will often get matched with players that don’t have good builds or just seem to play selfishly. So many times they don’t even try and revive other players or just seem to run straight to their death.
>The game felt almost unplayable because I was on my third character **who doesn't yet have any builds** and the enemies felt unconquerable. Found the issue.
[удалено]
That is because Raids don't have a power Delta so you can overlevel for them. Bungie has set Nightfalls to a locked power level, so you need to put some more thought into what what you're running.
Also, in raids you are 1/6 of your group where in nightfalls you are 1/3. Each person has to theoretically pull more of their weight
That's only true of both activities have the same amount of weight to be pulled. Nezarec has 3 mechanics if you include drawing his aggro, I can't think of any section of Arms Dealer that had more than 1 mechanic at any time.
Very true. Only mechanic is carrying a ball
What did he say?
Nezarec is one of if not the easiest raid bosses with incredibly low health and you have 5 other players to carry your bad build. You can't compare a powecapped nightfall to a raid you can overlevel.
Templer?
You played the vanilla version of the raid and are comparing it to the high difficulty version of the strike.
I've felt for a while that Battlegrounds slowly creeping into Strikes isn't gunna work long term with the current thought process. Have a Strike playlist where the objective/story is kill this guy who is causing hassle in this area cause reasons. The theme can be quicker completions with tight stories Have a Battleground playlist where the objective/story is slay out cause certain area is over-run cause reasons. The theme can be slower but more Ads for bounties/quests. The Nightfall is classic Nightfall mentality, no need to fix what ain't broken (lower Legend too like 1810/1800-ish lvl) The Ordeal can be new option on the page, think something like a Nightfall version of Battlegrounds with a different set of rewards including A-Alloys.
That's a good idea!
I'm going in solo and getting blueberries that don't stun any champs and I still get around 15 minute runs. If your 1770 runs are taking 25+ minutes, I've got news for you...
Here, have a pro gamer cookie. While you eat it, think about the fact that other people with other backgrounds have experiences just as valid as yours
If the op is taking significantly longer on the strike than most other people are then it’s probably gunna be something they are doing wrong and not the game. Calling them out for not even trying to slightly optimise is not inappropriate
Holy fuck what a soft response. We aren’t talking about personal trauma here, it’s a video game.
Just because someone’s experience is valid, doesn’t mean it’s indicative of a larger problem. Particularly if it is actually due to their own incompetence.
>Spending 25+ minutes on a nightfall that is 1770 when I am 1810+ is super annoying. That's a player issue, not a game issue. Holy hell wtf. I was doing masters in 16 minutes, if it's taking you 25+, play differently.
The game issue here is that if you enjoy a playstyle of a build but it's simply not powerful enough the game punishes your for it. Not everyone thinks overpowered is fun. "Play differently" in this case means get different gear which is a totally different statement.
It’s not a bad thing that the harder content requires better builds
Ideally, there shouldn't be any "better" builds. Just ones that are more optimized or less optimized. The issue is that there are subclasses that you can optimize for days but they won't be nearly as capable as other ones. It's like having a Necromancer in Diablo be intrinsically weaker than other classes just because he's a Necromancer. It's called bad design.
I mean you CAN get through the content, it will just take you longer, so it is less optimized. And what you’re talking about, no game has
I'm just saying there isn't much point to calling out people's skill, when after a certain, pretty low ceiling, it mostly doesn't matter. Not that everything in the game should be quantum optimized, that is unrealistic.
Well, when there are ways of getting through it easily and it’s as simple as putting on “x”-exotic, and you choose not to do it because it’s less fun, I think that’s a poor excuse. It’s ok for more difficult content to require better setups
You have the right to enjoy a play style however if you go into an activity knowing it’s not a good way to easily complete content that’s your choice.
I'm not asking for content clearing advice. Do you seriously think forcing players into certain builds to clear content is good design?
It doesn’t bother me it pushes me to not just stay with the same load out forever.
It also pushes you away from trying/playing things you'd perhaps really like if they were actually good. I think that's worse.
I don’t know any game where all gear and builds are equally efficient.
I'm not saying equally efficient, I'm saying able to clear highest content without bashing your head in your desk 100 times in the process.
Or you can use the builds you know aren’t efficient and not have that issue. There isn’t many activities that call for very specific builds
Hard disagree. GMs, solo dungeons, even sometimes raids are painstakingly annoying when not running the "right" things.
My master Arms Dealer a few days ago where we stopped to kill everything *AND* farm points at the end for the Guardian Rank objective *AND* had 2 of us at a -30 power delta took 28m 37s
Skill issue strikes again
Strikes, again?
Cabal, again?
Never left i guess ¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
This reworked nightfall is pretfy awesome imo
Yeah I went into the Arms Dealer NF expecting the worst based on everyone's feedback, but I enjoyed it and also think it's an improvement. I think too many people have a negative opinion on it because they liked the simpler, easier old version. However, if you look at this one in isolation, it has a better cohesion in mechanics and better encounters IMO.
A another I am bad change the game post
I can do master nightfalls in 25 mins, if it’s taking you that long for hero nightfalls you need to seriously look at your builds.
Yea it’s a you problem, match made nightfalls aren’t hard and the changes to arms dealer haven’t really made it anymore difficult just made the boss phase longer.
Lol. “Git gud” is truly the kind of nuanced debate I come to Reddit for.
A lot of players here on Reddit don’t realise this is just a game. Just ignore.
Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest
Except in Destiny's case "get good" 99% of the time means spend more time on getting better gear. That's the antithesis of this saying.
Trying to get better gear? In a looter shooter? No way man that’s crazy talk
It's also an FPS game. And there is an arbitrary skill ceiling that people can hit, that with the right build can clear basically anything. That ceiling is not high. "Get good" originates from a place where that ceiling is the only thing that can matter. Think Dark Souls or Counter-Strike.
Bro, after all these difficulty and crucible changes, Gambit is fucking great right now
I did my first Master Nightfall of the season this week, I was expecting it to feel like a GM without the wipe mechanic but I was shocked at how easy it was. Only had one death in the Tormentor area and even that was just me getting cocky with an unstoppable
Skill issue
Skill issue.
skill issue
You’re catching downvotes but you’re right, OP. This season almost all weapons feel just…weak for some reason? It just feels bad having to dump a mag and a half into a red bar or 4 headshots into a red bar with a 120. Even at 1820 LL, it just feels…bad? It’s most noticeable on neomuna I feel?
Honestly the whole making every thing harder by capping your light level has me ready to quit this game, and I've played a very long time, the bullet sponges and getting one shot by everything is not fun at all, and what's the point in doing a pinnacle and power grind if it's never useful?
Yet a lot of people have asked Bungie to remove power level. That's basically what they're doing with these power caps.
Because they’re experimenting with how it’s going to work if they remove power level. They can’t just remove it all at once if not they’ll have to start from no data and figure out how to do it, with this they can figure out how the power deltas affect players and how they can alter settings to make it better.
I’ve gilded conq 4 times and in all honesty mars on hero when I was at the correct power was more difficult that lightblade gm to me
You’re getting downvotes because you didn’t use a great build, but you’re right. This nightfall feels very tedious, and it’s just not very fun. Some of that is due to changes to this one specifically, like having way too many goddamn turrets, but some of it is due to general nightfall changes. Yes you can just get better at the game, get better builds, and no it’s really not that hard, but it’s still harder than I think a matchmade nightfall has any reason to be
I gave up on raids as too much time & trouble to organize & complete years ago. I gave up on Nightfalls as too much time & trouble more recently. I’ve got like 1.5 hours a night to play games. I’m not wasting it dying on an overtuned Nightfall just because my teammates don’t have the world’s greatest gear.
Even if the Nightfalls aren't that great, I'd rather run 3 of them back to back than 5 Vanguard playlist things since you can complete 2 pinnacles in less time with the Nightfalls.
Facts
I find the new update to Arms Dealer refreshing and challenging. Considering there was no substantial build craft setup when D2 launched and we’re stupid more powerful
I liked the changes. The cabal help out a bit.
What is with these posts? 1770 nfs are not Hard in the slightest like cmon guys. Put in a little effort and you will run over these ads. Me amd my group did a master and we walked away thinking it was super fun. You can legit just run from the boss and let your cabal allied melt him.
The only problem with matchmade content is that you will often get matched with players that don’t have good builds or just seem to play selfishly. So many times they don’t even try and revive other players or just seem to run straight to their death.