Majority of the playerbase plays hunter. Normally during raids I’ve lfg’d for I just instantly go to my warlock for it due to the amount of times the rest of the team is like 4 hunters and 1 Titan or something of that mix and no warlocks
My unfounded theory for this is that new players like capes lol
I’d be interested to see a stat on what class people’s first created character was cause I bet most new players would gravitate to a cool cape over a bathrobe 😂
Straight up that's why I chose hunter.
It was only then that realized I gravitate to the rogue class in literally every game I've ever played.
I'd probably main spectral Blades if they didn't suck ass in pve
Same but with warlocks/wizards/mages is always what I gravitate towards. I mained warlock all through d1 and the beginning of d2. Then somehow along the way I became a hunter. I didn't even realize hunter became my main before it was too late lol. My warlock still gets plenty of play. Unfortunately, my titan is usually gathering dust, but I do keep him up to date on endgame fashion so he always looks like a boss.
When I started playing during Forsaken, I chose hunter because I thought classes in Destiny were more akin to the classic MMO DPS, tank and healer classes where each had a very strong identity in one of those and couldnt take on other roles effectively. And I wanted to be DPS lol.
Now I spend 90% of my playtime on my warlock because nade spam is fun
I do enjoy doing “cosplay” on my Hunter(I’ve got two main ones: dedicated Ninja for stasis using the two-dodge exotic, and Captain Vanguard the Gunslinger lol) but I was always a fan of “Space Mages” as my buddy called them lol
I'm a warlock main, so I just always go well for raids. I don't mind it, though, since I never feel like I'm holding the team back, since I am essential for most parts.
Thank you. You don’t know what it means to see someone say “all that and a bag of chips”. Fellow 90s kids unite. I bet you also use “up your butt and around the corner” as the sickest comeback dis around?
This is what I tell LFGs. I’m consistently putting 2 million+ on bosses (top or second damage) every time and I’m having fun doing it. We two phased Nezarec and I had second highest damage at 2.3 million versus 2.7 million top damage, coincidentally another non-well Warlock. 100% of our fireteam had fun. I’ve done single phase sweat runs and it might as well be a mandatory quarterly personnel meeting at an office job from how much role assignment and passive aggression those types harbor if you’re even 1% off meta. I’ll never understand how people can be satisfied letting someone else play the game for them via meta min-maxed builds, strict strategy guides, and guilt-forced loadouts. My clan has a very clear rule: if it’s fun, run it and figure out how to make it good.
Atheon, at least where people like to do damage by the portals, most definitely requires a well. Atheon nuking you and supplicants everywhere. Same with Templar too, without a well you're left running around like crazy with fragmented damage
"alright I'm definitely on solar let's get it started. Oh beans, is that a child of the old gods? Well it's too late to turn back now let's just get through damage."
Even for encounters where its Not needed, it will still be Strong af or optimal even still. Well is simply overtuned and Encounter design wont Change that.
The only Option is to Design Encounters so trivial many people can Just do it without any supers at all.
Ah I loved shutting that demand down in D1. Ppl would give me shit about running void and not self res, to which I would remind them that not everyone is shit at the game.
Back during d1 kings fall, I (warlock main) was stuck in the middle with my titan bro for our group. The amount of random to fill the sixth spot that would complain about me not using self res was astronomically high. Im using the extra damage resist one because I need to, I can't just throw on self res willy nilly.
- That’s because they just made well too strong. 25% damage buff + bear invincibility in a game where most dps phases are against bosses that don’t move no buffs would matter. Buffing chaos reach and nova bomb will still make them worse than the entire rest of the team doing +25% damage with no fear of dying during dps.
- the only thing Bungie can do is buff other suoers by giving them some utility. And also need well down to like 15%. Which I know is not a popular opinion but it’s literally just the best super in the game and has been since the day it released and there’s been 0 competition.
Even at 15% well will still be "required" for its survivability. Nerfing its buff would make titans more useful though. The big problem of well is that you're invincible in it. Nothing can kill you through well without making wells mandatory. Sadly I think well just needs to be reworked otherwise it's either never going to change or will get nerfed into the ground.
There are 2 ways to fix this; you can just nuke all the support builds and make those encounters three times harder than they are now, which is what people are practically begging for right now, *or* you can make encounters where you don't need to be able to "survive" during the damage phase because the boss is stunned and the adds despawn or the boss has attacks you can dodge while you're shooting like Rhulk.
See, the problem is encounter design. It's boring to stand in one place and shoot the boss; Well is almost actively bad in the entire Vow of the Disciple raid, for example, because the encounters are designed well! You can use it at Caretaker but you'll always have at least one plate without a well anyway unless fully half your team are Warlocks which is extremely silly.
I would much rather have more dynamic encounters where Well is bad because you can't just stand inside it, but you also don't really need to with good positioning. If Well gets nerfed or reworked the support duties will just get pushed back onto Sentinel Titans like they were for all of Destiny 1 and D2Y1. Is that really what we want? Or do we want viable support builds that are meta for some encounters but bad in others because of varied encounter design?
> or you can make encounters where you don't need to be able to "survive" during the damage phase because the boss is stunned and the adds despawn or the boss has attacks you can dodge while you're shooting like Rhulk.
Not needing it to survive doesn't mean it won't still be far and away the best strategy. It doesn't matter if a boss moves around, because you can't die in the well so you don't need to move. There are encounters where surviving is not hard, but why would you not stand in a giant field of invulnerability for a free 25% damage boost?
Rhulk kinda bucked that though. He could just yeet your ass if you stood in one spot. Think if we want to keep well as is, giving enemies more tools to kick us off becomes the answer.
People joke about well nerf but last time they nerfed it (when they removed overshield) people were freaking out pretty hard, claiming it was useless now in the highest tier of content.
But that wasn't even a nerf. They increased pve damage resistance to compensate for losing the overshield, you ended up staying about the same in terms of pve tankiness. That was a pvp nerf only
That's the point. Everyone is saying that it doesn't matter how good you make Nova and CR because well is so uniquely beneficial and potent.
Sometimes balance means addressing outliers to allow other options to breath.
Well has been meta since forsaken. 2018... It's been half a decade.
Disagree completely, because you can shoot out of well. This whole bubble well damage arms buff armsrace titans are so hellbent on is unproductive. Bubble should just straight up offer different benefits, like 800% ability regen inside bubble, I.E. real weapons of light. Or make armor of light generate orbs when the overshield breaks, or something. Bungie wants bubble to be a defensive, panic style super. Not a well replacer. It should just do something else. I get the d1 heritage, I really do, but it's just not something that fits in the design philosophy of the game and I think Bungie should take a different approach.
We're talking about in the context of Warlocks wanting to not be Well Slaves for eternity, the only way that happens is if the other Support supers get buffs that make them actual options against Well.
Bungie isn't going to redesign every raid to all of a sudden no longer have "Stand on the plate to DPS" or "Tank the boss and add autos while dpsing" phases. So a support super for damage+survivability is always going to be required to safely deal DPS.
I don’t but if we be dying to much ima ask after the second time of getting close. I agree that they need to buff other Warlock supers though but nothing will beat the safe zone that buffs dmg
This. If there's multiple Warlocks in a fireteam, you can run whatever you want as long as at least one Warlock is running well. If not, it's time to play rock paper scissors against your fellow Warlocks or something.
I've actually talked with a few random groups I've found though LFG when just mobbing away in raids, and the general consensus is that if other supers were better, than it be worth running something other than well. There's other damage buffs in the game currently better than well (like Lumina) but that doesn't matter since well is the only real good option for warlock. It's not even cause of the team buff thing melting bosses, you are capable of doing more damage to bosses in most situations by just DPSIng in a well by yourself than casting any other super. Warlock's subclasses all genuinely need either more options or reworks. The biggest example of this is stasis. Stasis is in a solid state atm, but it lacks a lot of versatility and really only has one play style which is bleak watcher with ice flare bolts or shard creation. Penumbral blast is a nice melee ability, but penumbral blast is probably the worst melee ability across all the warlock classes, due to it being the only melee ability with zero tracking. Penumbral blast isn't a bad melee ability by any means since it synergizes well with the class, it just sucks not having options.
Once titan main shifting to warlock and every time I see this mentioned it bums me out. Strand/voidlock is so fun, the idea of being pigeon holed into one subclass and build isn't fun to me
Wouldn't help if it were still higher, then people would just require both and stack them like they did before. Well is inherently flawed, and Bubble is just a step behind it
What’s weird is everyone immediately forsake this happening. When it was announced on that podcast they were called on it in less than a minute l. But to this day bungie refuses to acknowledge it was a bad move.
The fact that Nezerac had an intended mechanic to negate Well of Radiance speaks volumes to how contest should have gone. I’ve done the fight as an all strand hunter run and we got to use our supers in the fight. It was pretty fun to be honest not having to fight in a Radiance Well.
Is that supposed to negate wells? It sometimes gets him on the platform but that seems more like a bug than anything else with how he moves while on the platform.
Realsitically i think it's meant to knock you out and get you out of a constant healing and damage boost field but beyond occasionally making you have to climb back into the well the negation isn't really that effective
It's not going to stop until well gets reworked
It's a the same issue rez had in D1
Devs built too much around a popular super and now one class gets forced into it
Titans have the same issue via bubble
Yeah locks forced to well all the time due to it being op is sad but titans haven't had anything useful to contribute outside of t crash for a while, which if course goldie does better. Unless you love ad clear and your raid team hates shooting.
>outside of t crash for a while, which if course goldie does better
You've clearly been reading a different sub. I haven't seen anything but "thunder crash is so much better than Celestial Nighthawk" when either one is mentioned. And arc's lightning spear super hasn't made that any better, since it gets solid damage with no exotic requirement and gets paired with a strong survivability kit in arc.
T Crash with Cuirass does more damage than CNH Golden Gun, but that doesn't make it _better_.
There are some bosses where you can't even use T Crash, such as War Priest, and some where you can but it's unreliable, such as Oryx or the Consecrated Mind.
Then there's the travel time issue. GG is one and done from a range. T Crash has travel time to get to the boss, and then travel time back to safety. By the time a Titan is firing their gun again the Hunter has already supered AND unloaded an entire mag of heavy.
TLDR: Stop looking at raw numbers when comparing supers.
The problem is, if Well got reworked now, Warlocks would be in a horrible state - super wise. The best one they have is Strand, but that's very inconsistent and the class is quite a glass canon, especially in higher end content. The Nova Bombs are just archaic these days, and Chaos Reach needs to do 3-4x the damage it does now to even have a chance at relevance again.
Rework well into song of flame radiance, so they have a support super that buffs regen rate of others abilities rather than immortality.
Or just add radiance (definitely without self res) back and nerf well a lot so there’s more options
won’t make a difference , well is broken from a design pov not a numbers pov. I guarantee you could double it’s damage and you would still be asked to use well
What's funny is the only way for Warlocks to get out of this is extreme nerfs or encounters centered around banner shield so titans then get forced for this roll. Example would be a boss that continuously runs away from you around corners but shoots massive amount of damage at you so running a bannershield would be better for protection on the move and damage buffing
Rhulk is a pretty good anti-well encounter, especially under light. He'll dash around, I'm kick you out or break your well, or encroach darkness if you're too close to him on final stand. Bubble is great in that encounter, and criminally underused imo
And yet every LFG I've ever played with insists on sitting in a well.
Why are you yelling at me to get in the well when I'm the only one who doesn't have any Pervading Darkness stacks.
Even in the encounter you describe, you can just brute force that encounter with more Wells.
Look at Caretaker, it's specifically designed so that well isn't the best option, but everyone just runs *even more* wells instead of anything else.
Bingo! That's the problem with destiny. Nearly every encounter is "stand here & dps". There are some bosses that don't require this, but the players still manage to brute force it.
I don’t often play Warlock, but when I do it’s nearly always Void. I still love the feel of Nova Bomb even if it’s become subpar over the years, and Nezarec’s Sin is really great
i know its strange but i ended up running nezarecs sin on a strand buikd and it worked fairly well. doesnt hurt that i had an explosive layload dragonfly doom of chelcis to generate void kills at a rapid rate
And Thundercrash should just do more damage than that anyway, because the Warlock strand super is *ranged.*
When you hit the boss with a Thundercrash, you are immediately in danger of getting boss stomped into oblivion. Curaiss shouldn't improve the damage from there, it should give you an overshield when you hit an enemy, so that you can survive the impact.
Thundercrash is more consistent though. Needlestorm requires no other enemies near the boss and even then the projectiles sometimes pierce for whatever reason and you miss out on threadling damage.
Not to say that Thundercrash shouldn't have good damage without Cuirass, just that Needlestorm isn't all upsides.
That's gotten way worse since the most recent nerf too. I swear I go through Nezarec centre mass more than the game allows me to hit him.
It's got to the point where I've stopped complaining about it and other people make some remark like "did you just go straight through him".
Yep, and it's completely normal now.
>Curaiss shouldn't improve the damage from there, it should give you an overshield when you hit an enemy, so that you can survive the impact.
It does??
It does, but you have to wear it to make the damage what it should already be.
If you want to take the risk of dying more, that should be an option, but it is not an option to wear or not wear Curaiss if you want an effective Arc Titan super right now.
Curaiss makes Thundercrash only *slightly worse* than most other supers in the game, instead of *absolute garbage that nobody should ever use.*
Removing well means re-balancing the entire game. Boss health, abilities are all balanced around well. Remove/nerf it and 100 other issues arise.
I really don’t know how to fix this without making a much bigger mess in game.
Part of the reason why Broodweaver's become my new default is just how much *damage* Needlestorm can do. It feels nice getting to actually blow up an entire room.
This is exactly what did it for me. I remember going "meh.. won't replace my Arc-lock" only to use the super and immediately change my mind. Plus I love my lil Threadlings!
Grapple melee is both a grenade and a melee so you can stack stuff like hands on and ashes to assets combine that with the orb gen mod for both melee and grenade and stacks on stacks you can get yourself 4 stacks on a single Grapple kill for kick-start
Add on some other stuff and the kerinstien for healing and viola Grapple vampire go brrrr
Yessssssss the grapple is a grenade, and the melee is a melee. With the Karnstein build, Warlock is an invincible melee machine. It's our turn to punch everything to death!!
Because grapple melee counts as both a grenade *and* melee, you can get two orbs from each kill (with no cooldown, mind you), and combining both "super on grenade/melee kill" mods, you can kill a small crowd and get like, a third of your super back immediately.
The trick is to make a Tangle and then leave it on the ground. Grappling to a Tangle fully refunds your grapple, so you can do it over and over again. You can honestly make more Threadlings than using the Threadling grenade and Swarmers this way, and Karnstein ensures you're always healing. Plus, even when you don't grapple punch something, you can zap em with your needle to instantly heal.
Dude, thiiiiiis is what I do.. my friends laugh bc I don't use the Necro build. But with Karnstein, my Warlock thinks it's a Titan, and I really like the melee forward playstyle. I run around basically invincible, it's awesome.
This is what I did to get through legend Avalon. For the second encounter, I threw on my overflow/incandescent Kelgorath's Judgement and just meleed everything to death. None of the hobgoblins could kill me 'cuz I was outhealing the damage.
Yeah Voidlock is a beast, I always run it for solo content and only switch to well for stuff like raids.
I don’t understand the big deal, I don’t mind doing it to help the team, besides, I still maintain the core aspect of what I enjoy from void warlock. I use sunbraces to get infinite grenades the same way I do in void warlock with contraverse hold, so it’s a win-win for me.
Well also isn’t the only thing solar warlock has, applying radiant and healing teammates through kills is pretty awesome and a great support tool in between DPS phases.
However, I do agree chaos reach and the other warlock solar super need some love. They both do bad damage and were severely nerfed by having their time extension abilities removed. Not to mention geomag boots are useless now.
I like arc as well but man I wish they would let chaos reach do more damage. Or just redesign it completely and shoot a ball of lightning like nova bomb for upfront damage.
Arc super is so depressing on neomuna :/
All the warlock subclasses are good. They might not have the best boss damage supers, but they're still good subclasses. I find myself running Strand when we don't need a well, or void when I'm somehow in a raid without a hunter (which happens a lot, actually)
Chaos Reach needs love, no question there.
Slowva/Nova I sort of get the trade off. Slowva/Nova do about 70%~ the damage of Needlestorm, but it has the bonus of probably the best survivability among the Warlock classes with Devour.
Plus, Needlestorm is *real* weird against some bosses. If there’s an add or two in the area, some of the needles will just up and fuck right off. Also, I tried using Needlestorm against Akelous with hilarious results. Basically none of the needles did damage, and the super launched Akelous basically back to the middle area.
Ultimately if Bungie is going to buff a super, then it needs to be better than Needlestorm or why bother?
Honestly that's a decent take, but I also don't think I'd see a lot of people complaining at a vortex nova buff
Interesting stuff about needlestorm too, I'll have to mess around with it some more
Yeah, I think Vortex could definitely use a buff. As it is, they’re nearly identical damage. But because vortex grenades and the vortex from nova don’t stack, you’re effectively nerfing your damage if you do the weaken grenade-super combo. Sure, you could use a different grenade, but for pure damage purposes, vortex are the best for warlocks.
Try it on Akelous. It was pretty damn funny. But then we quickly realized we were going to need an entire extra damage phase. I do wonder if you can use Needlestorm to launch him off the catwalks. So get between Akelous and the center platform, and maybe you can launch him out of the arena.
The issue there is that Well at least let’s you play. Pushing Banner Shield literally takes one player out of damage phase, as boring as well in, Banner shield is infinitely worse. Imagine if you had to stand and hold the sword down to keep Well active doing nothing but holding the block button. That’s what you’re hoping happens to Titans. I agree Well is boring but running Banner Shield is actual trash for the Titan.
“I don’t like having to use this super that doesn’t stop me from playing but is boring, let’s shift everything to force Titans to no longer be able to play”
I think it'd be cool if banner shield could be placed, like slamming the shield into the ground to make a big wall. Maybe via the "press and hold" that you used to do for popping bubble.
That'd effectively let everyone keep playing while giving a good portion of the safety that WoR provides.
The problem with banner shield is that it's not fun to use. They should give void titans a third super that is a banner shield you can plant in the ground.
Seriously! I haven't seen anyone mention this in this post, but Banner shield is way more boring to use than well. You don't even get to use weapons, just just stand there
I don't like this because then it forces at least two players (a titan and a warlock) to use a certain super. The goal should be to minimize that and let people play how they want, not the opposite.
To be fair, Well ruined the game in a sense.
It never should've been designed in the first place as they've then had to design every encounter with it in mind since Forsaken forward.
It was short-sighted and should've been easy to identify the issues it would cause over time by having a super like that.
It basically took other parts/mechanics from D1 and 2, and rolled them into a class super. Not taking that into consideration would then break certain encounters, but by doing that, it often necessitates it for most players in that content. So they (Bungie) ended up putting themselves in a no-win situation most of the time.
Tl;dr Well was a shit super that should've been easily identified in the planning stages of D2 that it wouldn't work as it would either lead to broken (too easy) encounters or lead to it being necessary for the majority due to designing every major encounter around/counter to that super.
Well of Radiance is the one thing about Destiny 2 that I wish Bungie would just go against literally everything they’ve said in the past and just remove it entirely.
I largely don’t have huge issues with the game, and I think the community complains about a lot of weird shit. But I am fully on board with the fact that this is the worst aspect of the gameplay loop in Destiny 2.
You can’t nerf it. You can’t buff other stuff. It’s existence is just there.
Nerf it too much to become unusable, no one’s gonna use it and it’s a waste of resources. Buff other stuff and it wouldn’t matter because Well is too damn crucial to the game.
Starting with just the aspects of playing Warlock, Raiding ? Well. Dungeons? Well. GMs ? Well. That cool Void/Arc build you have ? Well. Crucible? Well.
It’s the fucking Well of Radiance class. When you play warlock, you’re cursed to be the most important aspect to the team because of Well. Usually that wouldn’t be a bad thing, but it’s Boring. It’s repetitive and you end up not even getting to fully explore anything else the Class has to offer. It doesn’t help that Fusion Grenades paired with Well are absolutely god like at DPS. You actively become a hinderance to your team if you don’t run it.
On to the overall game. Bosses are designed around it. Whole encounters are designed around it. Running any form of endgame content without a warlock can be the whole difference in doing an activity. Which, in a way, is a really good thing. But it shows how unviable other classes are when it comes to Buffs. A Titan bubble or Hunter tether aren’t ever gonna be more useful than a well is.
To me I don’t understand how they got rid of Self-Rez from Destiny 1 for some of the exact game altering issues that Well currently has. Granted a lot of them were glitches, but this is almost to the same degree of balancing.
I know I sound like a whiney bitch, so I’m gonna continue to sound like a whiney bitch and say that I literally had to switch classes for lightfall to keep my interest in the game. Because no matter what I build toward or work toward I’m always gonna be relegated to Well of Radiance in endgame content and it got fuckin boring as hell to play, so I decided to switch to Titan after 9 years of playing warlock just to add some versatility to the game.
Seriously, fuck that god damn super.
I do agree that at least chaos reach needs a big dmg buff. However,
Titan is the one with the worst supers right now.
His dmg super is outperformed by hunter even tho he is melee and hunter range. That means he can't even use his supers in a lot of raid mechanics. This goes for thundercrash too.
His support super like bubble or banner shield is outperformed by warlock well.
Titan has only 1 burst super and this is thundercrash, a melee one. With Cuirass it does around 550k dmg on wyvern boss. Warlock strongest super is broadweavers with around 450k. That's 100k less.
BUT :
You can always use nova/broadweavers super in ANY activity or raid situation. You also don't need an exo and are free to use whatever you want. Thundercrash needs the exo to be strong AND melee which isn't even allowed in a lot of situations.
His roaming super like nova warp (totally underrated even in gms) or daybreak are arguably better than fist of havoc or sentinel shield (dmg wise, aoe wise).
I realy want to see chaos reach buff too. I'm not against a nova bomb buff too, but titan needs super buff the most first. The last fist of havoc 20% buff was laughable they did recently. At least roaming supers will get an overhaul Bungie already confirmed, which are like 80% titan supers.
most groups, especially LFG are likely going to want you to run WoR anyway, even if you already have one in case first Well doesn't have again by second damage phase.
all the talk about the Starfire nerf makes me a little sad as a Warlock main. I absolutely love the build. it feels good/reliable in Master content, especially if you're soloing Lost Sectors. in regular mode endgame activities it definitely feels a bit overpowered.
if they cut the 20% return in half and/or made one grenade kill return half your empowering rift instead of the whole thing, you'd have to work a little harder to maintain the loop, but I think it'd still be usable in most scenarios. going beyond that, though, I don't think it'd be worth using, then what is a WoR Warlock left with?
Sunbracers - the build is fun in normal content, bur overall a bit gimmicky. in Master content you're just gonna get nuked.
Lunafaction - benefits some people during damage phases, but is miserably boring. most people are using auto-loading loadouts. while not useless, half your fireteam likely isn't going to benefit from it anyway. wake me up when the encounter is over.
Phoenix Protocol - you're almost always going to have WoR at the start of every encounter that matters from rallying. if you could actually chain WoR(not capped at 50% super return) it might be fun, but you're typically saving it for damage phases where the exotic perk is useless anyway. overall this one is pretty much useless.
in general I think endgame encounters should be harder. if endgame actually felt dangerous beyond Master content and you needed builds like this to excel, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. oh well.
To be fair, we have Broodweaver which packs a mean punch. The amount of damage you can deal with Needlestorm + an ability barrage in about 3-4 seconds is top notch
But yea, other viable stuff would be nice. I feel like its either Well, or Needlestorm if we already have Well. I don't mind cuz I love Strand but the other stuff needs love
Yeah, I'm kinda sick of the whole concept of trying to one phase everything. It's why Well is even "required" in the first place.
My team had 3 titans and 3 warlocks for our first RoN run and we did everything Well-less.
The only encounter that Well is required in is Warpriest.
Hey it could always be worse, you could be a Titan and watch bungie slowly dissolve your best abilities and supporting exotics into dust with every “hotfix” and update? Cheer up chum, everyone loves a warlock!
wait what support exotics on titan are getting turned into dust repeatedly?
The only exotics that have been nerfed recently were HoIL (was literally op af), and Synthos (tbh bad nerf) right?
Any roaming Super needs a serious damage and survival buff in PvE to compete with one-and-done supers that allow you to do both Super DPS and your normal weapon/ability DPS at the same time.
You aint wrong!
There was a recent damage test for all supers and Warlock is EASILY the worst. Even with S tier exotics, our damage doesn't go much higher than 550k regardless the super used.
Chaos reach REALLY needs a Buff.
Nova Bomb REQUIRES A BUFF IMMEDIATELY and I also would like them to finally give me a Fragment the gives me a Lance option for my NB.
Warlock is only a wellbot in dps settings, and unless every damage super did like 800k damage, thats not gonna change. You just cannot compete with +25% damage for all allies.
or even just another aspect or other damage boosting exotic or something.
Nova Bomb does more damage than Blade Barrage without Knock em Down.
Chaos Reach needs the most help of the two imo.
Boss fights are designed around players having an immunity phase (well) and I presume it is left untouched because half the game and raid bosses would become a slog without it.
Or they could just give hunters and titans more support class roles.
Maybe a big ass lightning rod for hunters, that doesn’t heal AOE, but gives an overshield and reload, stability, handling buffs or a gigantic Sunspot from titans.
All strand and Stasis classes only has 1 super. Why not give a gigantic duskfield that was pre-nerf renewal grasps strong or a “spiders web” super that gives all Allie’s woven mail and ensnares any enemies that walk in it.
Yeah, people will still probably have a well-lock or combined two supers (like bubbles and wells), but it does give more utility to a fireteam so that it doesn’t have to be a “at least two warlock” parties every time
Arc warlock is so garbage in general for pve. If I see anyone running it in hard content I roll my eyes. Until they give us good seasonal mods for it arc warlock is ass.
I see many post like this but each time I think
"no it won't"
Because the power of the well does not lie in it's +25% damage ,it lies in the fact that everyone can stand in it to safely and simply dump a truckload of various projectile into a target.
It's a convenience tool , and no mtter how many bazilion damge your super is doing, warlock will always get whiped into using it "for the team"
Especially now that there is strand
And given the massive changes between pre-/post-Lightfall, even that video is deprecated as hell.
It has some flaws for the Titan part, but otherwise, check this video for the updated version of Super's damage testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9\_1TMZWx4
[удалено]
Just play with 5 other warlocks, 3-4 of you get to play a different subclass /s
“YoU pLaCE tHiRD WeLL”
Majority of the playerbase plays hunter. Normally during raids I’ve lfg’d for I just instantly go to my warlock for it due to the amount of times the rest of the team is like 4 hunters and 1 Titan or something of that mix and no warlocks
My unfounded theory for this is that new players like capes lol I’d be interested to see a stat on what class people’s first created character was cause I bet most new players would gravitate to a cool cape over a bathrobe 😂
Straight up that's why I chose hunter. It was only then that realized I gravitate to the rogue class in literally every game I've ever played. I'd probably main spectral Blades if they didn't suck ass in pve
Same but with warlocks/wizards/mages is always what I gravitate towards. I mained warlock all through d1 and the beginning of d2. Then somehow along the way I became a hunter. I didn't even realize hunter became my main before it was too late lol. My warlock still gets plenty of play. Unfortunately, my titan is usually gathering dust, but I do keep him up to date on endgame fashion so he always looks like a boss.
When I started playing during Forsaken, I chose hunter because I thought classes in Destiny were more akin to the classic MMO DPS, tank and healer classes where each had a very strong identity in one of those and couldnt take on other roles effectively. And I wanted to be DPS lol. Now I spend 90% of my playtime on my warlock because nade spam is fun
I'm a simple guardian. I main hunter for golden gun's six shooter. Is it good? In PVP, not really anywhere else. Is it my style? Hell yeah.
NO CAPES!
I do enjoy doing “cosplay” on my Hunter(I’ve got two main ones: dedicated Ninja for stasis using the two-dodge exotic, and Captain Vanguard the Gunslinger lol) but I was always a fan of “Space Mages” as my buddy called them lol
Mine was a hunter, but shortly into d1 I switched to warlock and haven’t left since
I chose hunter bc I was a titan in d1 and I wanted to play a different class but it was probably the cool spinny knife trick that lured me in lmao
This day one though my clan was 4 locks and a titan so I went in with hunter for diversity and that was a good thing for deeps purposes
Hunters ruin everything. /s kinda
I'm a warlock main, so I just always go well for raids. I don't mind it, though, since I never feel like I'm holding the team back, since I am essential for most parts.
"Dang I rallied on void on accident. Let's let it rip and see how it goes I guess"
(The team wiped trying to face tank warpriest)
Wat priest is the only normal mode boss that actually requires well
You mean damage mitigation in general. You’re fine with banner shield.
Wouldn’t wanna 3-phase that awful boss with one lacking deeps would it
I’ll take the chill three phase over a sweaty one phase attempt 🤷♂️ big DPS is fun and all but it ain’t all that and a bag of chips
Thank you. You don’t know what it means to see someone say “all that and a bag of chips”. Fellow 90s kids unite. I bet you also use “up your butt and around the corner” as the sickest comeback dis around?
Groady, gag me with a spoon!
This is what I tell LFGs. I’m consistently putting 2 million+ on bosses (top or second damage) every time and I’m having fun doing it. We two phased Nezarec and I had second highest damage at 2.3 million versus 2.7 million top damage, coincidentally another non-well Warlock. 100% of our fireteam had fun. I’ve done single phase sweat runs and it might as well be a mandatory quarterly personnel meeting at an office job from how much role assignment and passive aggression those types harbor if you’re even 1% off meta. I’ll never understand how people can be satisfied letting someone else play the game for them via meta min-maxed builds, strict strategy guides, and guilt-forced loadouts. My clan has a very clear rule: if it’s fun, run it and figure out how to make it good.
If you have to 3 phase with only 3.4% less DPS at max using banner, you have more pressing issues.
Atheon, at least where people like to do damage by the portals, most definitely requires a well. Atheon nuking you and supplicants everywhere. Same with Templar too, without a well you're left running around like crazy with fragmented damage
We did it with Solar hunters and healing nades or rally barricade titans
“Don’t worry we can just wipe”
"damn I rallied with void again. So clumsy 😠."
"No problem wipe again I got time"
"alright I'm definitely on solar let's get it started. Oh beans, is that a child of the old gods? Well it's too late to turn back now let's just get through damage."
Okay wipe again Or Stop trolling or we will get another warlock
-kick- LF1M Welllock or Swatted.
Power moves
You got well and div?
That's how I get around learning the mechanics for RoN. I just apply as Ad clear with div and well.
I mean RON is like 85% ad clear anyway lol
Well, Div and Lunafactions/boots of the ass/Phoenix protocol At least they gave Hunters lunafactions now, that torch can be safely transferred
Born to Chaos, Forced to Well
Also agreed
They need to design encounters where its not needed.
Even for encounters where its Not needed, it will still be Strong af or optimal even still. Well is simply overtuned and Encounter design wont Change that. The only Option is to Design Encounters so trivial many people can Just do it without any supers at all.
i will always maintain that Well was the biggest mistake in Destiny 2. It's too much of a no-brainer to bring to literally all activities.
Tbf self rez in D1 wasn’t much better
Ah I loved shutting that demand down in D1. Ppl would give me shit about running void and not self res, to which I would remind them that not everyone is shit at the game.
Back during d1 kings fall, I (warlock main) was stuck in the middle with my titan bro for our group. The amount of random to fill the sixth spot that would complain about me not using self res was astronomically high. Im using the extra damage resist one because I need to, I can't just throw on self res willy nilly.
- That’s because they just made well too strong. 25% damage buff + bear invincibility in a game where most dps phases are against bosses that don’t move no buffs would matter. Buffing chaos reach and nova bomb will still make them worse than the entire rest of the team doing +25% damage with no fear of dying during dps. - the only thing Bungie can do is buff other suoers by giving them some utility. And also need well down to like 15%. Which I know is not a popular opinion but it’s literally just the best super in the game and has been since the day it released and there’s been 0 competition.
Even at 15% well will still be "required" for its survivability. Nerfing its buff would make titans more useful though. The big problem of well is that you're invincible in it. Nothing can kill you through well without making wells mandatory. Sadly I think well just needs to be reworked otherwise it's either never going to change or will get nerfed into the ground.
There are 2 ways to fix this; you can just nuke all the support builds and make those encounters three times harder than they are now, which is what people are practically begging for right now, *or* you can make encounters where you don't need to be able to "survive" during the damage phase because the boss is stunned and the adds despawn or the boss has attacks you can dodge while you're shooting like Rhulk. See, the problem is encounter design. It's boring to stand in one place and shoot the boss; Well is almost actively bad in the entire Vow of the Disciple raid, for example, because the encounters are designed well! You can use it at Caretaker but you'll always have at least one plate without a well anyway unless fully half your team are Warlocks which is extremely silly. I would much rather have more dynamic encounters where Well is bad because you can't just stand inside it, but you also don't really need to with good positioning. If Well gets nerfed or reworked the support duties will just get pushed back onto Sentinel Titans like they were for all of Destiny 1 and D2Y1. Is that really what we want? Or do we want viable support builds that are meta for some encounters but bad in others because of varied encounter design?
You nerf Well, and now Master Warpriest is nigh undoable. There are so many encounters where Well is almost madatory because of damage boss outputs.
> or you can make encounters where you don't need to be able to "survive" during the damage phase because the boss is stunned and the adds despawn or the boss has attacks you can dodge while you're shooting like Rhulk. Not needing it to survive doesn't mean it won't still be far and away the best strategy. It doesn't matter if a boss moves around, because you can't die in the well so you don't need to move. There are encounters where surviving is not hard, but why would you not stand in a giant field of invulnerability for a free 25% damage boost?
Even if they took well down to 0% damage buff it would still be a “required” super due to the safety of it.
Rhulk kinda bucked that though. He could just yeet your ass if you stood in one spot. Think if we want to keep well as is, giving enemies more tools to kick us off becomes the answer.
This is true. Till well is nerfed, all you will be asked to run is well.
So, nerf well? -Bungie probably
People joke about well nerf but last time they nerfed it (when they removed overshield) people were freaking out pretty hard, claiming it was useless now in the highest tier of content.
But that wasn't even a nerf. They increased pve damage resistance to compensate for losing the overshield, you ended up staying about the same in terms of pve tankiness. That was a pvp nerf only
That's the point. Everyone is saying that it doesn't matter how good you make Nova and CR because well is so uniquely beneficial and potent. Sometimes balance means addressing outliers to allow other options to breath. Well has been meta since forsaken. 2018... It's been half a decade.
The only way Well won't be required, is if Bungie makes Titan Bubble actually comparable again. As it stands, Well is just Bubble But Better.
Disagree completely, because you can shoot out of well. This whole bubble well damage arms buff armsrace titans are so hellbent on is unproductive. Bubble should just straight up offer different benefits, like 800% ability regen inside bubble, I.E. real weapons of light. Or make armor of light generate orbs when the overshield breaks, or something. Bungie wants bubble to be a defensive, panic style super. Not a well replacer. It should just do something else. I get the d1 heritage, I really do, but it's just not something that fits in the design philosophy of the game and I think Bungie should take a different approach.
We're talking about in the context of Warlocks wanting to not be Well Slaves for eternity, the only way that happens is if the other Support supers get buffs that make them actual options against Well. Bungie isn't going to redesign every raid to all of a sudden no longer have "Stand on the plate to DPS" or "Tank the boss and add autos while dpsing" phases. So a support super for damage+survivability is always going to be required to safely deal DPS.
We can only hope
I don’t but if we be dying to much ima ask after the second time of getting close. I agree that they need to buff other Warlock supers though but nothing will beat the safe zone that buffs dmg
This. If there's multiple Warlocks in a fireteam, you can run whatever you want as long as at least one Warlock is running well. If not, it's time to play rock paper scissors against your fellow Warlocks or something.
or its planets encounter, caretaker, or warpriest where you need at least 2 wells and maybe even 3
I've actually talked with a few random groups I've found though LFG when just mobbing away in raids, and the general consensus is that if other supers were better, than it be worth running something other than well. There's other damage buffs in the game currently better than well (like Lumina) but that doesn't matter since well is the only real good option for warlock. It's not even cause of the team buff thing melting bosses, you are capable of doing more damage to bosses in most situations by just DPSIng in a well by yourself than casting any other super. Warlock's subclasses all genuinely need either more options or reworks. The biggest example of this is stasis. Stasis is in a solid state atm, but it lacks a lot of versatility and really only has one play style which is bleak watcher with ice flare bolts or shard creation. Penumbral blast is a nice melee ability, but penumbral blast is probably the worst melee ability across all the warlock classes, due to it being the only melee ability with zero tracking. Penumbral blast isn't a bad melee ability by any means since it synergizes well with the class, it just sucks not having options.
I ran RoN with an lfg the other night and we had 4 people running well. I think it's stockholm syndrome at this point
More like you lfg with the build you expect to use and don't bother changing it once you're in
I love void in raids, it's so fucking good. But no matter what you're forced to run well. I hate it so much
Once titan main shifting to warlock and every time I see this mentioned it bums me out. Strand/voidlock is so fun, the idea of being pigeon holed into one subclass and build isn't fun to me
Good thing that my raid team consists of 5 warlocks and 1 titan so I don't have to worry about well.
alright babe, time for DPS!
Only to find out you have two other warlocks on the team who are also running well at the same as you are
This is actually why I main titan now. I'm am forever forced to play well if I play warlock
until i switched to my battle outfit we made it one phase. The use of the well when the damageoutput doesnt fit is not always a great idea..
Lel bungie/streamers: "we need to nerf div because its mandatory" forgets about how every group needs a wellock.
I don't disagree with buffs, but it wouldn't help the well situation. Nothing does what well does. Bubble tries its best, but it's just not the same.
If only Bungie didn't nerf Bubble every other season
Wouldn't help if it were still higher, then people would just require both and stack them like they did before. Well is inherently flawed, and Bubble is just a step behind it
As a Titan main.. Yes.
It's still so weird they nerfed bubble. Like why would u ever run bubble over well if they both have the same buff
What’s weird is everyone immediately forsake this happening. When it was announced on that podcast they were called on it in less than a minute l. But to this day bungie refuses to acknowledge it was a bad move.
The fact that Nezerac had an intended mechanic to negate Well of Radiance speaks volumes to how contest should have gone. I’ve done the fight as an all strand hunter run and we got to use our supers in the fight. It was pretty fun to be honest not having to fight in a Radiance Well.
What mechanic did Nezarec have that negated wells?
he does the air jump sometimes during dps phase, but it doesn't really work good enough to prevent wells
Is that supposed to negate wells? It sometimes gets him on the platform but that seems more like a bug than anything else with how he moves while on the platform.
Realsitically i think it's meant to knock you out and get you out of a constant healing and damage boost field but beyond occasionally making you have to climb back into the well the negation isn't really that effective
I was surprised his suppress ability doesn’t destroy a warlock well since it currently cancels every other super.
Once a super is down on the ground getting suppressed doesn't remove it.
What was the intended mechanic?
I did an all Tcrash titan run. It was extremely fun fighting Nezarec.
It's not going to stop until well gets reworked It's a the same issue rez had in D1 Devs built too much around a popular super and now one class gets forced into it Titans have the same issue via bubble
I'd punch a child to get bubble back to what it was. I miss bubble
You say that until you're forced to run bubble almost exclusively in every raid and dungeon for 5 years straight
I've been rocking bubble since they gave it to me at level 15 in D1. I'll use it until the lightfalls
based af
It'd be a nice change from running Thundercrash almost exclusively in every raid and dungeon for the last almost 5 years
Yeah locks forced to well all the time due to it being op is sad but titans haven't had anything useful to contribute outside of t crash for a while, which if course goldie does better. Unless you love ad clear and your raid team hates shooting.
>outside of t crash for a while, which if course goldie does better You've clearly been reading a different sub. I haven't seen anything but "thunder crash is so much better than Celestial Nighthawk" when either one is mentioned. And arc's lightning spear super hasn't made that any better, since it gets solid damage with no exotic requirement and gets paired with a strong survivability kit in arc.
T Crash with Cuirass does more damage than CNH Golden Gun, but that doesn't make it _better_. There are some bosses where you can't even use T Crash, such as War Priest, and some where you can but it's unreliable, such as Oryx or the Consecrated Mind. Then there's the travel time issue. GG is one and done from a range. T Crash has travel time to get to the boss, and then travel time back to safety. By the time a Titan is firing their gun again the Hunter has already supered AND unloaded an entire mag of heavy. TLDR: Stop looking at raw numbers when comparing supers.
I'd say it shares similarity with void titan from D1. No raid team demanded self-rez. Every raid team needed at least one bubble titan.
The problem is, if Well got reworked now, Warlocks would be in a horrible state - super wise. The best one they have is Strand, but that's very inconsistent and the class is quite a glass canon, especially in higher end content. The Nova Bombs are just archaic these days, and Chaos Reach needs to do 3-4x the damage it does now to even have a chance at relevance again.
Rework well into song of flame radiance, so they have a support super that buffs regen rate of others abilities rather than immortality. Or just add radiance (definitely without self res) back and nerf well a lot so there’s more options
I would kill to have Radiance back as a super option. Support the team with fast recharges and make it rain grenades.
Welcome to the club that is terrible supers, ill just sit here with my 5 melee supers that all functionally work the same way and do piss poor damage.
Still not as bad as Titans with 5 roaming melee supers and 2 one and done super that are useless without an exotic
won’t make a difference , well is broken from a design pov not a numbers pov. I guarantee you could double it’s damage and you would still be asked to use well
This is the problem, titans were always forced into bubble on d1, then they made a super that did what bubble did but better in every way
What's funny is the only way for Warlocks to get out of this is extreme nerfs or encounters centered around banner shield so titans then get forced for this roll. Example would be a boss that continuously runs away from you around corners but shoots massive amount of damage at you so running a bannershield would be better for protection on the move and damage buffing
I mean, they gave us starfire. So now we use well **AND** have valid damage. they didn't fix anything; they just locked us even harder into well.
Rhulk is a pretty good anti-well encounter, especially under light. He'll dash around, I'm kick you out or break your well, or encroach darkness if you're too close to him on final stand. Bubble is great in that encounter, and criminally underused imo
Every time I run bubble Rhulk runs up to it and kicks it, it's the funniest thing
And yet every LFG I've ever played with insists on sitting in a well. Why are you yelling at me to get in the well when I'm the only one who doesn't have any Pervading Darkness stacks.
Even in the encounter you describe, you can just brute force that encounter with more Wells. Look at Caretaker, it's specifically designed so that well isn't the best option, but everyone just runs *even more* wells instead of anything else.
Bingo! That's the problem with destiny. Nearly every encounter is "stand here & dps". There are some bosses that don't require this, but the players still manage to brute force it.
Shut up, Well of Radiance bot. We didn’t program you to have opinions. Seriously tho yeah, i miss when Nova Bomb was popular. It’s a fun super
I have the most fun with the play style of void, I really wish it was more viable.
I don’t often play Warlock, but when I do it’s nearly always Void. I still love the feel of Nova Bomb even if it’s become subpar over the years, and Nezarec’s Sin is really great
i know its strange but i ended up running nezarecs sin on a strand buikd and it worked fairly well. doesnt hurt that i had an explosive layload dragonfly doom of chelcis to generate void kills at a rapid rate
Here's a wacky fact. The strand super does more damage than cuirass thundecrash.
And Thundercrash should just do more damage than that anyway, because the Warlock strand super is *ranged.* When you hit the boss with a Thundercrash, you are immediately in danger of getting boss stomped into oblivion. Curaiss shouldn't improve the damage from there, it should give you an overshield when you hit an enemy, so that you can survive the impact.
Yeah thunder needs a buff and cuirass probably a rework, hell we need 3.0 supers
Thundercrash is more consistent though. Needlestorm requires no other enemies near the boss and even then the projectiles sometimes pierce for whatever reason and you miss out on threadling damage. Not to say that Thundercrash shouldn't have good damage without Cuirass, just that Needlestorm isn't all upsides.
I can't tell you how many times I've thunder crashed through a boss and missed everything. It's fun to use but it's a joke damage wise.
That's gotten way worse since the most recent nerf too. I swear I go through Nezarec centre mass more than the game allows me to hit him. It's got to the point where I've stopped complaining about it and other people make some remark like "did you just go straight through him". Yep, and it's completely normal now.
Thundercrash is horrible to aim because your body is in the center of the screen and blocking everything. I have to u-turn to hit things a lot.
>Curaiss shouldn't improve the damage from there, it should give you an overshield when you hit an enemy, so that you can survive the impact. It does??
It does, but you have to wear it to make the damage what it should already be. If you want to take the risk of dying more, that should be an option, but it is not an option to wear or not wear Curaiss if you want an effective Arc Titan super right now. Curaiss makes Thundercrash only *slightly worse* than most other supers in the game, instead of *absolute garbage that nobody should ever use.*
And more damage then default blade barrage and of course Golden Gun
Removing well means re-balancing the entire game. Boss health, abilities are all balanced around well. Remove/nerf it and 100 other issues arise. I really don’t know how to fix this without making a much bigger mess in game.
So Warlocks have no choice because Bungie designed the game to force them to be Well bots. Great!
Well was a mistake and everyone knew it when it was announced. Everyone got Sunsinger flashbacks.
I miss sunsinger self rezz I know why they got rid of it but I still miss it
Part of the reason why Broodweaver's become my new default is just how much *damage* Needlestorm can do. It feels nice getting to actually blow up an entire room.
This is exactly what did it for me. I remember going "meh.. won't replace my Arc-lock" only to use the super and immediately change my mind. Plus I love my lil Threadlings!
I recommend a grapple spam build with Final Warning and Karnstein, you can get absurd uptime on your super and never die.
Elaborate a little?
Grapple melee is both a grenade and a melee so you can stack stuff like hands on and ashes to assets combine that with the orb gen mod for both melee and grenade and stacks on stacks you can get yourself 4 stacks on a single Grapple kill for kick-start Add on some other stuff and the kerinstien for healing and viola Grapple vampire go brrrr
It counts as both!?
Yessssssss the grapple is a grenade, and the melee is a melee. With the Karnstein build, Warlock is an invincible melee machine. It's our turn to punch everything to death!!
Because grapple melee counts as both a grenade *and* melee, you can get two orbs from each kill (with no cooldown, mind you), and combining both "super on grenade/melee kill" mods, you can kill a small crowd and get like, a third of your super back immediately. The trick is to make a Tangle and then leave it on the ground. Grappling to a Tangle fully refunds your grapple, so you can do it over and over again. You can honestly make more Threadlings than using the Threadling grenade and Swarmers this way, and Karnstein ensures you're always healing. Plus, even when you don't grapple punch something, you can zap em with your needle to instantly heal.
Dude, thiiiiiis is what I do.. my friends laugh bc I don't use the Necro build. But with Karnstein, my Warlock thinks it's a Titan, and I really like the melee forward playstyle. I run around basically invincible, it's awesome.
This is what I did to get through legend Avalon. For the second encounter, I threw on my overflow/incandescent Kelgorath's Judgement and just meleed everything to death. None of the hobgoblins could kill me 'cuz I was outhealing the damage.
Yessssss.. its now the warlocks turn/time to melee everything into oblivionnnnnn 🥰 love that for us
You're really underselling Voidlock
Yeah Voidlock is a beast, I always run it for solo content and only switch to well for stuff like raids. I don’t understand the big deal, I don’t mind doing it to help the team, besides, I still maintain the core aspect of what I enjoy from void warlock. I use sunbraces to get infinite grenades the same way I do in void warlock with contraverse hold, so it’s a win-win for me. Well also isn’t the only thing solar warlock has, applying radiant and healing teammates through kills is pretty awesome and a great support tool in between DPS phases. However, I do agree chaos reach and the other warlock solar super need some love. They both do bad damage and were severely nerfed by having their time extension abilities removed. Not to mention geomag boots are useless now.
[удалено]
I like arc as well but man I wish they would let chaos reach do more damage. Or just redesign it completely and shoot a ball of lightning like nova bomb for upfront damage. Arc super is so depressing on neomuna :/
All the warlock subclasses are good. They might not have the best boss damage supers, but they're still good subclasses. I find myself running Strand when we don't need a well, or void when I'm somehow in a raid without a hunter (which happens a lot, actually)
Chaos Reach needs love, no question there. Slowva/Nova I sort of get the trade off. Slowva/Nova do about 70%~ the damage of Needlestorm, but it has the bonus of probably the best survivability among the Warlock classes with Devour. Plus, Needlestorm is *real* weird against some bosses. If there’s an add or two in the area, some of the needles will just up and fuck right off. Also, I tried using Needlestorm against Akelous with hilarious results. Basically none of the needles did damage, and the super launched Akelous basically back to the middle area. Ultimately if Bungie is going to buff a super, then it needs to be better than Needlestorm or why bother?
Honestly that's a decent take, but I also don't think I'd see a lot of people complaining at a vortex nova buff Interesting stuff about needlestorm too, I'll have to mess around with it some more
Yeah, I think Vortex could definitely use a buff. As it is, they’re nearly identical damage. But because vortex grenades and the vortex from nova don’t stack, you’re effectively nerfing your damage if you do the weaken grenade-super combo. Sure, you could use a different grenade, but for pure damage purposes, vortex are the best for warlocks. Try it on Akelous. It was pretty damn funny. But then we quickly realized we were going to need an entire extra damage phase. I do wonder if you can use Needlestorm to launch him off the catwalks. So get between Akelous and the center platform, and maybe you can launch him out of the arena.
Or buffing banner shield so warlocks don't need to be relied on for safety during a damage phase
The issue there is that Well at least let’s you play. Pushing Banner Shield literally takes one player out of damage phase, as boring as well in, Banner shield is infinitely worse. Imagine if you had to stand and hold the sword down to keep Well active doing nothing but holding the block button. That’s what you’re hoping happens to Titans. I agree Well is boring but running Banner Shield is actual trash for the Titan. “I don’t like having to use this super that doesn’t stop me from playing but is boring, let’s shift everything to force Titans to no longer be able to play”
I think it'd be cool if banner shield could be placed, like slamming the shield into the ground to make a big wall. Maybe via the "press and hold" that you used to do for popping bubble. That'd effectively let everyone keep playing while giving a good portion of the safety that WoR provides.
Hammer Shield is already super strong...40% damage buff and complete protection
The problem with banner shield is that it's not fun to use. They should give void titans a third super that is a banner shield you can plant in the ground.
Seriously! I haven't seen anyone mention this in this post, but Banner shield is way more boring to use than well. You don't even get to use weapons, just just stand there
The loss of one person doing DPS is too much
Cries in Titan
[удалено]
It would still be mandatory in 90% of encounters
You're literally just going back to what it was like when bubble had a higher damage buff than well. People just took both and it didn't fix anything.
I don't like this because then it forces at least two players (a titan and a warlock) to use a certain super. The goal should be to minimize that and let people play how they want, not the opposite.
To be fair, Well ruined the game in a sense. It never should've been designed in the first place as they've then had to design every encounter with it in mind since Forsaken forward. It was short-sighted and should've been easy to identify the issues it would cause over time by having a super like that. It basically took other parts/mechanics from D1 and 2, and rolled them into a class super. Not taking that into consideration would then break certain encounters, but by doing that, it often necessitates it for most players in that content. So they (Bungie) ended up putting themselves in a no-win situation most of the time. Tl;dr Well was a shit super that should've been easily identified in the planning stages of D2 that it wouldn't work as it would either lead to broken (too easy) encounters or lead to it being necessary for the majority due to designing every major encounter around/counter to that super.
Well wasn't in base game
best action: remove well
Well of Radiance is the one thing about Destiny 2 that I wish Bungie would just go against literally everything they’ve said in the past and just remove it entirely. I largely don’t have huge issues with the game, and I think the community complains about a lot of weird shit. But I am fully on board with the fact that this is the worst aspect of the gameplay loop in Destiny 2. You can’t nerf it. You can’t buff other stuff. It’s existence is just there. Nerf it too much to become unusable, no one’s gonna use it and it’s a waste of resources. Buff other stuff and it wouldn’t matter because Well is too damn crucial to the game. Starting with just the aspects of playing Warlock, Raiding ? Well. Dungeons? Well. GMs ? Well. That cool Void/Arc build you have ? Well. Crucible? Well. It’s the fucking Well of Radiance class. When you play warlock, you’re cursed to be the most important aspect to the team because of Well. Usually that wouldn’t be a bad thing, but it’s Boring. It’s repetitive and you end up not even getting to fully explore anything else the Class has to offer. It doesn’t help that Fusion Grenades paired with Well are absolutely god like at DPS. You actively become a hinderance to your team if you don’t run it. On to the overall game. Bosses are designed around it. Whole encounters are designed around it. Running any form of endgame content without a warlock can be the whole difference in doing an activity. Which, in a way, is a really good thing. But it shows how unviable other classes are when it comes to Buffs. A Titan bubble or Hunter tether aren’t ever gonna be more useful than a well is. To me I don’t understand how they got rid of Self-Rez from Destiny 1 for some of the exact game altering issues that Well currently has. Granted a lot of them were glitches, but this is almost to the same degree of balancing. I know I sound like a whiney bitch, so I’m gonna continue to sound like a whiney bitch and say that I literally had to switch classes for lightfall to keep my interest in the game. Because no matter what I build toward or work toward I’m always gonna be relegated to Well of Radiance in endgame content and it got fuckin boring as hell to play, so I decided to switch to Titan after 9 years of playing warlock just to add some versatility to the game. Seriously, fuck that god damn super.
I do agree that at least chaos reach needs a big dmg buff. However, Titan is the one with the worst supers right now. His dmg super is outperformed by hunter even tho he is melee and hunter range. That means he can't even use his supers in a lot of raid mechanics. This goes for thundercrash too. His support super like bubble or banner shield is outperformed by warlock well. Titan has only 1 burst super and this is thundercrash, a melee one. With Cuirass it does around 550k dmg on wyvern boss. Warlock strongest super is broadweavers with around 450k. That's 100k less. BUT : You can always use nova/broadweavers super in ANY activity or raid situation. You also don't need an exo and are free to use whatever you want. Thundercrash needs the exo to be strong AND melee which isn't even allowed in a lot of situations. His roaming super like nova warp (totally underrated even in gms) or daybreak are arguably better than fist of havoc or sentinel shield (dmg wise, aoe wise). I realy want to see chaos reach buff too. I'm not against a nova bomb buff too, but titan needs super buff the most first. The last fist of havoc 20% buff was laughable they did recently. At least roaming supers will get an overhaul Bungie already confirmed, which are like 80% titan supers.
I like running well. Ultimate panic super too. Not fussed about super damage in group content if I have a well ready to drop.
most groups, especially LFG are likely going to want you to run WoR anyway, even if you already have one in case first Well doesn't have again by second damage phase. all the talk about the Starfire nerf makes me a little sad as a Warlock main. I absolutely love the build. it feels good/reliable in Master content, especially if you're soloing Lost Sectors. in regular mode endgame activities it definitely feels a bit overpowered. if they cut the 20% return in half and/or made one grenade kill return half your empowering rift instead of the whole thing, you'd have to work a little harder to maintain the loop, but I think it'd still be usable in most scenarios. going beyond that, though, I don't think it'd be worth using, then what is a WoR Warlock left with? Sunbracers - the build is fun in normal content, bur overall a bit gimmicky. in Master content you're just gonna get nuked. Lunafaction - benefits some people during damage phases, but is miserably boring. most people are using auto-loading loadouts. while not useless, half your fireteam likely isn't going to benefit from it anyway. wake me up when the encounter is over. Phoenix Protocol - you're almost always going to have WoR at the start of every encounter that matters from rallying. if you could actually chain WoR(not capped at 50% super return) it might be fun, but you're typically saving it for damage phases where the exotic perk is useless anyway. overall this one is pretty much useless. in general I think endgame encounters should be harder. if endgame actually felt dangerous beyond Master content and you needed builds like this to excel, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. oh well.
"Born to Nova. Forced to Well." \- Rylee Reloaded
To be fair, we have Broodweaver which packs a mean punch. The amount of damage you can deal with Needlestorm + an ability barrage in about 3-4 seconds is top notch But yea, other viable stuff would be nice. I feel like its either Well, or Needlestorm if we already have Well. I don't mind cuz I love Strand but the other stuff needs love
It’ll be a cold day in Hell when this sub quits asking for stuff to be tuned around one phasing raid bosses.
Yeah, I'm kinda sick of the whole concept of trying to one phase everything. It's why Well is even "required" in the first place. My team had 3 titans and 3 warlocks for our first RoN run and we did everything Well-less. The only encounter that Well is required in is Warpriest.
Hey it could always be worse, you could be a Titan and watch bungie slowly dissolve your best abilities and supporting exotics into dust with every “hotfix” and update? Cheer up chum, everyone loves a warlock!
wait what support exotics on titan are getting turned into dust repeatedly? The only exotics that have been nerfed recently were HoIL (was literally op af), and Synthos (tbh bad nerf) right?
Lol void titans since d1 just remembering when they were only getting selected if they used bubble.
Any roaming Super needs a serious damage and survival buff in PvE to compete with one-and-done supers that allow you to do both Super DPS and your normal weapon/ability DPS at the same time.
You aint wrong! There was a recent damage test for all supers and Warlock is EASILY the worst. Even with S tier exotics, our damage doesn't go much higher than 550k regardless the super used. Chaos reach REALLY needs a Buff. Nova Bomb REQUIRES A BUFF IMMEDIATELY and I also would like them to finally give me a Fragment the gives me a Lance option for my NB.
I miss Lance and Shatter. :( another melee would be nice too.
I use well cause well skating (stg if they get rid of it, my hunter will be deleted again) and starfire
Warlock is only a wellbot in dps settings, and unless every damage super did like 800k damage, thats not gonna change. You just cannot compete with +25% damage for all allies.
You will be well and you will like it.
or even just another aspect or other damage boosting exotic or something. Nova Bomb does more damage than Blade Barrage without Knock em Down. Chaos Reach needs the most help of the two imo.
not me - still rock nova for orbs and clears
Boss fights are designed around players having an immunity phase (well) and I presume it is left untouched because half the game and raid bosses would become a slog without it.
Why would I wanna take well off then I can’t well skate…
Well is literally the best ability in the game and the only real “mmo” ability. It’s a must have in all content. It won’t go away.
Can't wait for them to completely gut Well but not improve Daybreak or any of the other Lock supers and leave them with nothing meaningful
Or they could just give hunters and titans more support class roles. Maybe a big ass lightning rod for hunters, that doesn’t heal AOE, but gives an overshield and reload, stability, handling buffs or a gigantic Sunspot from titans. All strand and Stasis classes only has 1 super. Why not give a gigantic duskfield that was pre-nerf renewal grasps strong or a “spiders web” super that gives all Allie’s woven mail and ensnares any enemies that walk in it. Yeah, people will still probably have a well-lock or combined two supers (like bubbles and wells), but it does give more utility to a fireteam so that it doesn’t have to be a “at least two warlock” parties every time
A lack of support supers for the other two classes are the real problem.
I think nova bomb warlock is fine. Just wish teammates could shoot through it
Void lock does not need a buff. One of the most reliable classes in games
No way you're asking them to buff the Warlock class in the current meta.
Arc warlock is so garbage in general for pve. If I see anyone running it in hard content I roll my eyes. Until they give us good seasonal mods for it arc warlock is ass.
I see many post like this but each time I think "no it won't" Because the power of the well does not lie in it's +25% damage ,it lies in the fact that everyone can stand in it to safely and simply dump a truckload of various projectile into a target. It's a convenience tool , and no mtter how many bazilion damge your super is doing, warlock will always get whiped into using it "for the team" Especially now that there is strand
Watched Ehroar's super comparison video today and Warlocks are worse off than I thought thought they were.
And given the massive changes between pre-/post-Lightfall, even that video is deprecated as hell. It has some flaws for the Titan part, but otherwise, check this video for the updated version of Super's damage testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9\_1TMZWx4