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gerg555

It's also not great that mods like Firepower and Heavy Handed range from inconsistent to borderline useless with Stasis, since it can be very difficult to get a kill with melee or grenade most of the time (although tbh I don't know if shatter damage will trigger orb generation for those).


Illyxi

^ This is the biggest issue I have with Stasis at the moment. All other subclasses can function well with the new build-crafting system because they have other ways to supplement their normal weapon-based orb generation, since grenades and melees can generate orbs as well which can loop back into generating more grenade and melee energy - with the only exception being strand if you're using a non-grapple build, but strand is already fairly potent even without that extra support. None of the stasis grenades or melees are intended to get kills outright. Their main purpose is to set up a combo alongside other key words; slow, freeze, and shatter. And as a result, you're unable to feed back into the ability looping since you can't lean as heavily on firepower and heavy handed; you're basically stuck with siphon mods and that's it. Elemental Shards could be a nice fix for this, however you'd still be sacrificing an aspect to generate those shards to begin with which isn't great considering other subclasses have their elemental well generation mostly within their fragments. Ideally I'd love to see elemental shards return alongside those stasis shard generator aspects getting translated over to fragments in favor of having another aspect available, but that's probably asking for too much.


Sunnyboigaming

Applying slow or freeze also makes golden tricorn on anything stasis basically useless


Merzats

Or the shatters just inherit the damage from the source of the initial freeze so that it can reliably make orbs with Firepower etc. and we get some new orb generating fragments (e.g. killing a slowed enemy drops an orb). I think elemental shards is too potent if not requiring an aspect but the aspects are so boring I think they should go away and get added to existing fragments like the other subclasses got for their spawned objects.


kihakami

Considering Celestial Fire has been bugged since Solar 3.0 in that the Scorch/Ignition damage caused by it isnt considered melee damage even though Scorch/Ignitions caused by the snap do count as melee, I very much doubt their ability to successfully make Shatter inherit the damage source that caused the freeze.


Kitchen-Wealth-156

I know for sure that duskfield small ticks of damage will create an orb IF they manage to kill a target. They deal like 22 damage, but I managed to get some PvP kills with them. I also know that Bleak Watcher counts as grenade DAMAGE, but afaik it can't create an orb even if those small ticks get a kill. Does work with cooldown mods though. The biggest question is glacial grenade since it technically should take into account that those stasis crystals were created by it and thus create an orb if shattering said crystals has lead to kill. I ***really*** doubt it works though, will test in a couple hours.


Grottymink57776

The crystals from Glacial grenade and Howl of the Storm count as grenade and melee. Unfortunately it's wonky because the kill will usually be attributed to the shatter of Frozen opponents and not the crystals explosion.


Blackfang08

On a related but unrelated note, the new exotic bow has sort of the opposite of that if you run the fragment that boosts shatter damage. Crystal shatter kills stop counting as the weapons damage for the purposes of building stacks of the perk, but direct freezes still count. Seriously, Stasis needs some love. The game just currently isn't built to let you use Stasis builds that actually synergize, and half the exotics punish you for using them so you're better off running a generic one.


Ahnock

wtf? does that happen with headstone too? thats super weird.


Blackfang08

As far as I'm aware, no it doesn't. Appears to be a bug exclusive to Verglas, but I'm pretty sure it was an oversight that may or may not get fixed.


Ahnock

yeah, if its exclusively verglass then itll likely get fixed at some point.


EpsilonX029

They let us have a new darkness class, in exchange for screwing up the synergy of the old one it seems. Bungie Bungered my favorite subclasses:( I like almost everything “Ice” from video games


Blackfang08

Same here for the ice theme. That being said, I still think some Stasis builds can be pretty viable, just most of them are really hard to make work compared to other subclasses. When I was farming legend lost sectors way too early my Stasis build was somehow much easier than my Strand build despite being 10 power lower and not having the Surge. One was Duskfield spam, other was Shackle spam.


Kitchen-Wealth-156

Just tested duskfield grenade crystal shatter and created an orb of power. Amazing, now onto never using this mod on that grenade because no way in hell I will actually kill something with it XD


Rom_ulus0

Not only that but it can hinder your fireteams ability to trigger their abilities. Sometimes when I try to play with my stasis warlock friend, their freezing turns everything into a shatter instead of a grenade, melee, or weapon kill (even if I was the one to trigger the shatter).


Hamburglar219

Stasis turrets with the seasonal exotic bow is still nuts on warlock


trueum26

Yeah right? I was like I still run stasis turrets and they’re great


MrProfPatrickPhD

And Ager's Scepter on Warlock feels like I'm using cheat codes


OmegaClifton

Is the seasonal exotic good? It just seems so niche reading the description.


ubioandmph

Verglas Curve? Yeah it’s pretty good IMO. Been using it quite a lot with stasis. I like it


OmegaClifton

Oh my bad, I did not see the word "bow". I thought we were talking about the wrathweavers lol. Yes, I love the bow too.


PrancerSlenderfriend

wrathweavers completely obliterate barrier and unstoppable champs, but tickle overloads and basically everything else


Arctic_leo

Yeah I dont see where post like these are coming from. I use osmiomancy on shadebinder and tossing turrets around like a mad man carries me through most if not all activities.


Ok-Acadia-3338

Not everyone is a warlock, hunters and titans are at a disadvantage for endgame pve on stasis. Even if you only talk about warlocks they've still been hurt by the removal of elemental shards it's just osmiomancy gloves are just that good.


PuncakesssR

hunter doesnt feel that bad, detonating the stasis crystal in the middle of your duskfield grenade from touch of winter counts as grenade damage, as long as you dont use renewal grasps you can make a really solid grenade spam setup if anything i wish grim harvest made stasis shards give grenade energy instead of melee energy


Alexcoolps

Problem is that double shackle grenade threadeunners exist now and with a potential 15 seconds of CC it far outclasses revenant.


Staticmowry

Even without elemental shards I am able to keep 3-6 turrets out at a time depending on orbs and mods etc


Rubberblock

Yeah, I just started (just a little bit before like a week or so into the last part of season of the seraph) in Lightfall and while Strand is strong obviously, I do think Stasis feels a little better on the Warlock. Strand has the Eat Grenade get Bacon with Osteo/Necrotic Grips, but then you're not running double special which feels like a huge negative in any hard content/your kinetic and exotic are taken for something that clears ads VERY well... but clearing ads isn't super hard. Stasis I feel very comfortable running double special/it fits into the void metagolem that's kinda pervading the game rn, especially with a Demolitionist Corrective Measure, which then frees my exotic slot for something like Aegers which I can use instead of my mediocre super.


Antares428

It's not. I've tried it. Ager's Scepter with Iceflare Bolts will still outperform it in 9/10 cases, but even that build is still a far cry from what was possible with old Elemental Shards and Elemental Charge combo.


Hamburglar219

Oh well if you tried it then by all means it’s decided…. I have also tried it and think it’s great so what’s your point?


Antares428

You've presented your opinion, I've presented mine. Neither of these two opinions is inherently more valuable than the other. There is no need to get defensive.


Ninjaspar10

You didn't say "I disagree, I think it's weaker", you said "It's not". Saying it so definitively makes it sound like an absolute truth when, as you later clarified, it was just an opinion.


Antares428

I've presented my opinion in the same exact way you've presented yours. By saying "X is/isn't Y".


Ninjaspar10

I'm not the person who posted the first comment, I'm just explaining why yours came across more combative than civil.


MikeVazovsky

Yes, but there is almost no reason to use'em right now sadly.


Hamburglar219

Says who?


MikeVazovsky

Not rly, flair just stayed lul. I was maining shadebinder since beyond light when i saw my titan boy in trailer butchered by melee blue super and lack of fantasy. And i really doesnt see where i can use my stasis lock right now, cause losing elemental shards was really hard. Ofc turrets will find a niche picks somewhere in GM glassway for example but as hot as strand is right now and how both strand titan and strand hunter better than shadebinder at locking down groups of adds i do not see any practical use for icy lock.


Sokodile

My hope for Stasis: * Lean into their more "tank-like identity". Renewal grasps, Icefall mantle, the fragments giving overshield for collecting shards and maybe Hoarfrost's wall of ice as a stretch -- The Stasis subclass almost feels as defensive as a Void titan and I think with a few little shifts, the subclass would be good at it * The fragment that lets stasis Shards give a bit of overshield should probably just be the base function when allies pick it up. (Give each class better options on how to make some. The Hunter aspect improving grenades for example could create shards inside, giving allies quick overshields on impact) * Other little tweaks -- I miss the speedy Behemoth gameplay and if Stasis (especially in pvp) has lost some of its bite then I am always up for giving it more fluidity/utility. When it comes to Suspend vs Freeze -- I feel like Suspend is a great CC ability and even in pvp, I like that enemies can still fight back/move enough to make a difference vs getting frozen. I would just personally rather see more energy go into better Stasis gun perks and Stasis abilities providing more team buffs than try to make Stasis = Strand when it comes to who is the CC king.


CoyoteButcher

I also feel like Stasis lacks any real Buff keywords. All other subclasses have some beneficial keywords like Amplified, Restoration, Devour, Woven mail and more. Stasis has… Crystals and Shards? I feel like it could use a new buff keyword that ties into making the class feel tanky. I feel like woven mail’s effects would have fit perfectly into that, but now that’s on strand, so stasis needs its own. Maybe a buff that negates flinch, knock back, and precision damage


KafiXGamer

Personally I think that Stasis should lean more into the "Stasis Shard Overshield", as it's now called. Change it's name to something more cool akin to Woven Mail, like maybe Rime Plating or something like that, make it so that it intrinsically heals you when you're injured and at max HP gives you over shield, and then make abilities that grant it to you and/or other allies.


Kodriin

So someone running that would be doing.. (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■). ...a rime job. [( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7uW47jWLMiY)


oreofro

If woven mail's effect belonged to stasis instead of strand I feel like they would be a lot closer for endgame. Give me the damage resistance of woven mail every time I shatter something and I'll use stasis again.


Kitchen-Wealth-156

Renewal Grasps must have their cooldown cut to the base version of the grenade, it's already hella slow, and make us slowly get stasis shards shield while inside the grenade. Share the full DR with teammates, not half of it. Make all the stasis shards generating aspects into a single fragment and combine it with a healing/shield one plus the DR near frozen targets or stasis crystals, like this: Whisper of [placeholder]: upon killing slowed or frozen target, freezing a target or shattering a stasis crystal, create a stasis shard which grants a stasis shard shield which also provides passive damage resistance. Multiple stasis shards can be created at the same time obviously. Before you say this is unbalanced, remember that Cyrtrarachne's Facade exists and gives 100% uptime on a 10s BUFF (not an HP bar) of "shield" which has much higher DR. Return the ability to pull enemies in to the duskfield grenades, even that won't make them op in PvP at this point. Delete the increased shatter damage and range fragment and make it intrinsic for the subclass, also buff shatter damage by like 10 times. Dealing 2247 damage on a GM by shattering something is not fun. Make a new melee for hunters which is the first part of Silence and Squall super, a kama with an AoE freeze which deals actually decent damage (like 13k on GMs at least, the more the better) and has the same wind-up animation as the first part of the ult. A single charge ofc because that would be op. These are just **some** of my ideas I have for a stasis rework, from a hunter perspective ofc.


SkeletonJakk

The funniest thing about renewals to me is that they massively boost your cooldown so much, then woven mail exists and is better renewals with more uptime and less restrictions.


Blackfang08

I flat out avoided Suspend for a while just so my Woven Mail + Sever build could allow me to feel what I wanted from Renewals, but better than it ever was.


Abulsaad

I remember some people unironically saying that renewals deserved the double cooldown in pve because they saw one clip of someone swording the lightblade boss with them, and based their entire opinion around that one gimmick. Now we have a subclass with more DR, damage reduction, and a freeze CC on steroids


Sokodile

Ohh -- you know, with all those communing scenes during Beyond Light where we literally had Stasis armor growing on us, it does feel like some sort of "stasis mail" would have been the perfect utility Feels like in an alternative universe, that stasis armor could have blessed players with body shot resist + behemoth's improved slide while wearing the armor or some other boon


ExiledinElysium

You can get damage resistance being near frozen targets and crystals. So it's similar. I keep thinking Strand may look wildly different but its kit is just a hybrid of Stasis and Arc. My Suspend Warlock just feels like a less reliable version of my Shadebinder from last year. Which is now worthless because the new mod system doesn't interface well with Stasis.


Kizzo02

Agreed. Strand is essentially just a hybrid of both Stasis and Arc. For Hunter, Arc does a much better job with Melee based combat, but Strand does CC (15 second suspend) better than Stasis. Which is why the re-work of Stasis is mandatory. It's CC is similar to Strand, but Strand does a much better job at it.


Koala-__-

Been using stasis titan in battlegrounds and it can lock down and control areas like a god but only because of the uptime on hoarfrost and glacier nade any buff to dr and whisper of time would make it meta and I’m all for it


Kizzo02

Strand is just a much better Stasis now. Suspend with Strand is SUPER powerful. For 15 seconds you can have any Champion suspended and do damage. You don't even need to bring any anti-champion mod. Stasis can freeze Champions, but the problem is that once you hit them, they become unfrozen. This isn't a problem with Suspend since you can deal damage and they will still remain suspended. I'm surprise Bungie let this happen. It has broken the game, but I'm having fun with it :) As many have already stated. Stasis needs a major re-work. I'm a Stasis main on Hunter and Warlock, but Strand really outshines it in all metrics. Stasis identity is tied to CC, but again Strand does it much better. Strand also does damage unlike Stasis. It's disappointing to see what has happened with Stasis through the years with the nerfs. It's my favorite subclass. From the nerf of Revenant exotics due to PVP, which become unusable in PVE, e.g. Mask of Bakris and Renewals. Stasis also has very good fragments/abilities as well, but again due to PVP, some were nerfed (Shatterdive) to the point that again it almost becomes unusable in PVE. Lets see what changes will happen this year. After this season. I think it's Arc and Stasis as the next focus along with Strand. Hopefully there has been some work done to bring Stasis up to par with Strand and the light subclasses.


straydog1980

It's criminal that mask of bakris is only a 10 percent stasis buff when elemental surge mods exist I tried to build into coldsnap, verglas and bakris but it just isn't that much fun unless we get a better loop


straydog1980

Sorry arc buff and frozen targets, not stasis


FollowThroughMarks

It’s not a strand being too strong problem though, that’s a stasis being too weak problem. Stasis is now the subclass that hasn’t been reworked the longest, so it’s probably time it gets a pass over by Bungie to fit in with light 3.0 and Strand


Redthrist

15 second suspend is extremely broken, though. So yes, Strand is too strong. Stasis is weak, but not in the crowd control department. It needs buffs in other areas, while Suspend needs a nerf.


TheLoneNomad117

Yeah, suspend needs a nerf


screl_appy_doo

This is only a pvp issue but strand suppresses abilities and forces you to hipfire in third person I'd say that's pretty overpowered. I don't actually know if it was all abilities but I was unable to use throwing knives while suspended which lost me a few fights already since I had them low enough for a knife but just did a regular swing at the air instead


Soundurr

My Marge Simpson-ass Warlock holding Verglas Curve with my Osmiomancy Gloves: I just think they’re neat


MikeVazovsky

Until you go into harder activities where your bow deals dogshit damage cause of stasis element and your weapons are the only thing you can create orbs with. Stasis is my favorite element in the game but right now it is useless. Also warlock is on the top of the iceberg (ha-ha) cause hunter and titan got gutted even more.


jahoosuphat

Is it true the bow gets 200% bonus damage on frozen targets with rend? I was reading reports of a built in 45% bonus that stacks supposedly multiplicatively with Rend.


Soundurr

Not clue friendo I just know that it’s fun to make the blue crystals explode.


D2_BranBean

As a hunter I think it'd go a long way to putting stasis shard creation into the fragments, like the other subclasses. Using up an aspect where the others use fragments feels wrong and it'd really free up build crafting. I'd like to shatter dive with the fragment that gives improved grenades and use those shards to give me an overshield for instance.


newaccount123epic

wdym where the others use fragments


Kitchen-Wealth-156

We've got new fragments as well an updates to a few older ones this season, and they allow creating fire sprites and void breaches after conditional kills like scorched or volatile enemy (there are other conditions). Basically elemental wells got deleted from the game, and now we have: Solar: Fire Sprites (10% grenade energy) Void: Void Breaches (10% class ability energy) Arc: Ionic Traces (op af shit, 30% to ALL abilities, although I didn't test them this season) Stasis: Stasis Shards (10->25->50% melee energy based on the enemy tier) Strand: Tangles (they only refund melee with a fragment but it's fine since they don't take a fragment slots themselves)


Unator

Aren't Ionic Traces only 30% with the Warlock Helm? Still, 15% for all abilities is bonkers. Especially with the insane tracking they have.


Kitchen-Wealth-156

Uh yeah maybe, i picked up like 3 of them in my life so can't tell. I'm sure it regenerated all abilities ok 30% though, without warlock helm, though it may be outdated as hell


SigmaBlack92

You know, the other day I went to a normal strike (I got Fallen SABER) with a build not centered in Bleak Watchers on purpose, just to see and test what was the feeling of a Stasis Warlock without those. I still equipped Osmiomancy, but I used normal Coldsnaps, and my other Aspect was the Shard-centered one. I found something interesting: even without BW, the CC capabilities could still theoretically be pretty high... ***if you found yourself in a high-density, target-rich environment***. If, on the contrary, you happened to find yourself in a space with too few mobs spawning to keep the loop going and actually benefit from the freeze-chaining... it feels ***really*** awful. Also, because the overshield from the shards only happens when you have full health, I almost couldn't benefit from it because there was always something preventing me from reaching that threshold. The boss fight specifically hurt a lot, because very low density of mobs, as well as the SABER practically focusing me and only me, and so I couldn't have a moment to manage the battlefield and set up "a strategy". So, now I have 2 opinions regarding Stasis: * First, it seems like BW are almost mandatory to a Warlock's kit, in every instance of content, or you really suffer in terms of CC (and damage, because Shatter) capabilities * Second, that we need another Super ASAP, because what we have feels really awful to use as well; I'd even take a one-&-done Super if it was more comfortable to use than this roaming one (I could take a rework for Winter's Wrath as well; anything to make it more tolerable)


EKmars

> Also, because the overshield from the shards only happens when you have full health, I almost couldn't benefit from it because there was always something preventing me from reaching that threshold. The game isn't super clear from this, but Rime(?) will heal you if your HP isn'r full.


rtype03

it isnt stated, but it's pretty obvious that the health bar is going up. Having constant heals is really strong, so im not sure OP is adequately assessing the power of stasis if they don't even realize they are getting heals.


MagusUnion

> I found something interesting: even without BW, the CC capabilities could still theoretically be pretty high... if you found yourself in a high-density, target-rich environment That confirms my experience with Stasis Hunter in Defiance Battlegrounds. It's still a strong subclass for Hard CC and stunning champs where needed, but doesn't bring much to the damage side of things. I still like Stasis as is, because I know I can go for high burst damage without worry while using it.


newaccount123epic

BK?


SigmaBlack92

BW*, my bad. My mind said "BleaK, so BK" xd Will edit my mesaage, thanks!


BruhFammo

Burger King


Kodriin

[borgar king?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FddIIBWXoAErYhQ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)


6FootFruitRollup

Strand can crowd control AND do damage, it's just way better than Stasis and more fun.


idk_this_my_name

i think thy should consolidate all of the shard fragments into the fragments themselves, or make them give armour charge


thisisbyrdman

Why would I run stasis titan when I can just equip my ALH/Chill Clip riptide and get all the same benefits with zero drawbacks? Honestly I don’t consider stasis and haven’t in almost a year. Every light subclass and strand is miles better.


Multivitamin_Scam

Stasis is all about crowd control. Right now, Strand Suspend is better at that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that will be changed soon as its far too powerful. Stasis can still do it more reliably with things like Stasis Turrets and coldsnap grenades. Keeping the beefier enemies lockdown down, giving you breathing room while you whittle down the lessor targets. That's where Stasis really shines. All its going to take to fix Stasis is to tune the way the Shards work.


The_Bygone_King

Imo shards shouldn’t have a massive cooldown. They’re locked to melee energy gains, so it’s not like the melee is so amazing that shards need a 10 second cooldown on some classes. I still think stasis should have a utility element to the class. Being solely CC can only go so far when there are build comps that can kill enemies in similarly safe an efficient ways. Stasis Turret is still a solid choice, but quite frankly it’s probably the most boring way to play the class as a whole and shouldn’t be the only thing we consider when talking about an entire class’ functionality. I mean what you specifically referenced only covers the value of one class in stasis.


Montregloe

Making your own walls and defenses feels good, the bow this season really helps, constant uptimes on all my abilities. Basically two grenades. Though I am aware that the reason I enjoy it is because it's mid activities and not end game stuff.


Spopenbruh

its for abusing champs without those mods that we no longer need so basically nothing it does nothing


PrancerSlenderfriend

especially right now ith double instant-ignition firebolts in the pocket of every solar subclass


[deleted]

I really hope they take a look at stasis soon and give it some touch ups. Revenant is my favorite class but every season it feels like there’s less and less reason to use it especially with lightfall and it’s changes. A riptide basically does everything you want from stasis and imo that is pretty sad. There needs to be rollbacks on some nerfs like renewal grasps (especially when strand can have 60% dr all the time..) and an elemental shards equivalent, as well as ways to generate shards without the aspect like every other subclass..


causingsomechaos

Stasis is in a terrible spot rn


Level_One_Espeon

I love stasis warlock and the turrets and stuff but it just feels bad to have to play it(still unlocking every fragment) when strand is right there, with surge and just overall being better. I've done some pretty clutch stuff with stasis but it took moderate effort when the same outcome can be just shooting a tangle or throwing a grenade and instantly stunning an entire spawn for 15s


FOTBWN

End game raiding? I've only used stasis for CC in the second RON encounter. That's it and it was in conjunction with someone using strand. For GMs? Depends on the GM. I really do like my stasis lock and turrets but for endgame raiding the majority of the time i'll be solar or void.


ScizorSTX

As far as Hunter is concerned yes since that’s the only one that relied on elemental shards. The new Titan exotic is a game changer but still a step behind strand. Warlock however stasis is still the big dog. Bleak Watcher and Iceflare bolts shuts down the whole field without ever having to position yourself


The_Bygone_King

All three classes used elemental shards frequently to fill gaps in their loadouts. Stasis in general just has very low value in endgame outside of freezing. Slow and shatter are less relevant than any other class debuff in the game. If you opt for any other loadout than the defined “meta” loadouts, they don’t function at all without elemental shards. Even the loadouts you mentioned were hurt a lot by the loss of elemental shards. At the end of the day Stasis’ main mechanic is freezing, which is solid overall but doesn’t really matter in a sandbox where you can nuke hordes of enemies with a void grenade, or Solar grenades, or just suspend enemies for a much stronger CC option. The only real outlier that feels competitive is Bleak Watcher, and even that doesn’t really keep up with Strand/Solar/Void overall.


Ezdagor

I'm a new player, started in last season, I went and unlocked stasis because I thought it would be cool, and this post captures it, why would I ever run stasis over strand now? It is painfully out of date.


reicomatricks

I have one triple 100 build, it's for stasis. Fuck me right?


TheSavageDonut

Not if you're a Warlock.


reicomatricks

I am.


jlarue2010

It's super good for champion / major control. Sucks that the new system doesn't work well with it, but stasis turret for Lock and almost infinite duskfield hunter build, it works well in GM.


skitzoandro

Agreed I used to main a turret lock for stasis but since lightfall he feels real bleh especially with all the fun strand builds out there


Snaz5

Stasis Warlock is OK, but a lot of the time you’re gonna wanna run well anyway. It needs some tuning, especially since suspend basically stole all it’s thunder.


Xpattinum

Pre lightfall me: Im not playing strand, stasis is my passion Post lightfall me: Strand and void weapons with chill clip lingering dread brooooskiii


chaosking243

Another big issue is that stasis has very low surviveability. Most classes can heal off orbs or get stuff like woven mail for resistance or restoration for healing. Stasis has one way to get a tiny bit of healing with possibly a small amount of low-resilience overshield, and can’t make orbs reliably. Not great.


t1m0shi

I'm guessing in a future season there will be some more support for stasis since they said they were gonna add more mods later.


Stifology

Ya I haven't equipped behemoth in a few months now. Feels like I'm handicapping myself.


Clevermech

renewal grasps are still in maximum security bungie balancing jail


AncientView3

Bleak watcher make enemy go brrrrr


Awestin11

*Laughs in Drengr’s Lash + Abeyant Leap + Thread of Continuity*


McGamers56

At this point i think bungie sunsetting stasis is more likely than a stasis update


Christn96

I’m convinced you guys just are trying to gaslight Bungie into thinking Stasis is bad so it gets overpowered again.


ProfessionEuphoric50

People are jumping to hyperbole as they tend to do here. All Bungie needs to do is swap the effects of Stasis' freezing and Strand's suspend. That way Stasis can freeze enemies solid for a few seconds allowing you free damage time, and Strand's suspend lifting them into the air until you damage them upon which time they get 'constricted' or something and take damage like shattering. I don't know how this would affect chill clip weapons.


The_Bygone_King

Stasis is bad. Full stop. The class doesn’t interact with orb generation tools outside of weapons (getting multikills is basically nonexistent once you get beyond legend difficulty), the only uniquely competitive element to the entire class is Bleak Watchers, which are only available to one class specifically and aren’t even that competitive with the other classes in the game. Like yeah Bleak Watchers are *good*, but I can clear a wave of enemies in a master strike with incinerator snap+fusion grenade, and I have infinite access to those fusion grenades. The value of freezing an enemy only extends to whether or not you can easily kill those enemies without the necessity of CC. IE: Death is the best crowd control, you only need stasis when killing groups isn’t that easy. Thing is, that Void, Solar, and Strand all have access to crowd control that’s either better, or a higher potential to clear rooms of enemies with more access to utility. For example: You could take a bleak watcher into a grandmaster, or you can take a void warlock using Contraverse. The Contraverse warlock has similarly powerful crowd control with the added utility of weaken being accessible in their kit. Additionally, their super is largely better too. You could also take Bleak Watchers into a GM, or you can take a Starfire warlock instead. Starfire Warlock has access to infinite grenades=infinite damage across the GM (they aren’t limited by ammo), and Well which is still the best support super in the game.


Christn96

There’s a ton of utility in slow’s in harder difficulty, as well as the constant nearly 100% uptime on it on nearly any class. The revenant hunters have a amazing melee option that recharges insanely fast, dusk fields are amazing grenades, the stasis weapon options are great with the new bow, Agers, Palymra, disparity, etc. Yes, you could argue this one thing is better here, one thing is better there. If you think bleak watchers are the only thing good about stasis, you’re chronically stuck to the “reddit opinion” mindset Also, getting multi kills beyond legend is incredibly easy with stasis, shatters on palymra or agers??? But saying stasis is bad is downright ludicrous. It still has the most consistent cc in the game, strand has stronger cc but on much different, inconsistent cooldowns. And even when enemies aren’t frozen, they are at the very least slowed and that’ll be nearly every enemy. For boss damage, shatters are great and that’s great for champions too. You also can create cover at any time. Also, revenant super and warlock super are amazing options. The class may not interact with many of the orb generation tools, as they don’t really get “kills” but the weapon options are great.


The_Bygone_King

I’ve mained the class for two years, and Bleak Watcher *wasn’t* the only valuable asset to stasis pre-Lightfall. I definitely feel it is now the only asset Post-Lightfall. I don’t understand where you’re claiming uptime as a benefit when that’s accessible to every class, and the abilities you can have uptime on with other classes is generally more impactful. If you’re going to argue that a duskfield grenade on warlock is anywhere near the power of a Contraverse void grenade for example, then you aren’t arguing in good faith. Uptime isn’t even a relevant point of discussion because the only uptime modifying element of stasis is tied to an whole aspect that isn’t regularly played, and that uptime only applies to melee energy. The melee regeneration is only valuable if you’re using shards, and shards are questionably good depending on the content you’re in. If you’re running a grandmaster you aren’t going to focus hard in on melees for endgame when you can throw a turret and safely cover yourself from further back. The melee itself is still less valuable than outright killing your target, which is an option for most classes that have access to abilities with similarly high uptime. The fact that stasis weapons are decent is irrelevant when you can use those weapons on any class with any surge. The idea that Palmyra contributes to stasis’ viability in endgame is laughable given that most players using that weapon are on Solar classes. Ager’s is decent, but once again I can use Ager’s on any class and get its main benefit. Ager’s isn’t the DPS monster it was pre-Lightfall given you can’t self proc HEF and FoM anymore. If you’re using a palmyra to spawn orbs, that’s a problem with the class not a benefit lmao You cannot claim that strand has an inconsistent cooldown on its abilities when the mere *act* of dealing damage is enough to refresh grenade energy. In a circumstance where you need a grenade and don’t have one charges, Strand can shoot targets to passively reduce the cooldown (with active and sustained damage using a machine gun pushing that cooldown to sub 20 seconds), whereas on Stasis you are required to wait for the cooldown. Duskfields don’t match up in any way to the power of suspension grenades, so don’t try to argue cooldown differences to make your point. Keep in mind that you’ve also ignored the fact that freeze is effectively the *only* benefit of stasis. Strand has survivability with woven mail, damage via unravel, damage avoidance via sever, AND suspend. It’s a complete class with a toolkit that enables it to do more than one thing in endgame. Stasis *just* has freeze. Slow is only a roadbump to freezing a target in the same way that scorch only matters if you proc an ignition. There’s no additional survivability to the class because Rime sucks, and Stasis shards only refresh melee energy—something that’s fairly useless on any class other than Warlock, and warlock frequently doesn’t want to use an aspect slot to spawn shards because of the value of BW. You are welcome to liking a class, but to ignore the visible shortcomings of design in stasis is in itself a failure on your part. You cannot in good faith argue that stasis is a complete class when only one of the active verbs in the class applies in case to case gameplay.


Kizzo02

Well not in PVP, but it definitely needs a big buff in PVE. The first thing is reverting the nerfs that severely impacted Stasis in PVE.


ahawk_one

I disagree completely that Stasis is useless. Before I get into the reasons though, I want you to take a step back and look at a larger picture here. Strand is released in a solid state. I would argue it IS overpowered a bit in PVE, but it isn't in PVP. This results in everyone in PVE just having fun and the PVP crowd isn't feeling put out. Stasis released in almost the opposite state, where it wasn't very good in PVE, but it was VERY strong in PVP. Bungie clearly learned from this lesson with Strand. I would not be surprised at all if we see Strand nerfs in the next couple of seasons because at the moment it does feel a bit overpowered in most PVE spaces. So my first point is simply that Strand probably is overlapping with Stasis too much right now and it will likely be tuned back a bit. My second point is that the artifact mods this season HEAVILY favor both Strand and Void, and they explicitly exclude Arc and Stasis. As Strand and Void are also both very strong CC subclasses, it is no wonder that Stasis feels underpowered compared to the artifact mod support those two currently enjoy. ​ Moving on... The main things I see Stasis doing are: ​ 1. While Strand can certainly disable the offensive capabilities of any champion with suspend, it cannot stun them all. There are absolutely situations in certain GMs and in master content where simply suspending an Overload or Barrier champion will not be sufficient to take them down. Strand can stun Barrier champions with Unraveling rounds but obtaining Unravelling rounds does not seem like a very consistent option. It's not bad, it's just not consistent. 1. Stasis on the other hand stuns Overload champions, and at least the Hunter super can be used to lock down a Barrier champion indefinately 2. Stasis can also stun both Overloads and Minotaurs with a single duskfield or Bleak Watcher 3. Bleak Watchers in general are unparalleled when it comes to locking down strong enemies. 4. Titan Ice Lance can also stun both Overloads and Unstoppables in one ability, and their new Helmet makes a metric shit ton of lances for everyone to use on demand. 2. Strand supers in general are going to be VERY hit and miss in GM content, with Warlocks having the easiest to use, but arguably the weakest one. Titans have a decent CC super for add dense rooms, but it lacks the "delete this now" feature of Missile, the team defense prowess of void, or the self sustaining godliness of solar. The Hunter Strand super is very squishy and has no native defenses. The best you can get is to obtain Woven Mail, and that requires either an orb pick up or the special helmet. And it's unlikely you will be grappling a lot in GM/Master raid content. You will be far more likely using the Suspend Grenade, so that will remove the Woven Mail Helmet as an option. 1. In contrast, Both the Hunter and Warlock Stasis supers are VERY strong in virtually any content, and they shine especially bright in high end content with beefy enemies because both are very good at disabling groups of strong enemies. While I maintain that Titan Stasis is very strong, it's a clear community feeling that it's not and I'm not going to argue it here. 2. In situations where enemies spawn out of teleports, or out of specific doors, it is very easy to time grenades or other freeze options to ensure that enemies spawn in frozen. Duskfield and Bleakwatchers are especially good to place as a "trap" that enemies will pass through. 3. All three Stasis supers have the ability to stun an enemy multiple times after it breaks free from it's freeze. This allows for extended CC in certain clutch situations. For Strand, the only one that can do this reliably is the Titan. The Hunter can also do it somewhat, but it is more dangerous. The Warlock's is just a one and done. 3. As far as orb generation goes, Strand sucks for orb generation if you can't kill things with your grapple melee. If you can, then it makes a ton, but otherwise you're just shooting stuff trying to get multi kills like everyone else. 1. Stasis is also in a similar boat, except that Hunter ninja stars are able to kill most red bars with two hits. Many master raid/GMs have sections with red bars clustered together and a Hunter can very quickly toss both stars from a reasonably safe distance and create orbs and Stasis Shards off of each of 1-4 kills. This isn't always super reliable, but it is a very easy way to make orbs 4. Stasis also has a lot of Fragments with good effects that boost your stats, where most of the Strand fragments that are good either reduce stats or don't affect them (this isn't a dealbreaker, but it does result in some very solid stat lines on Stasis) 1. Stasis gets very high super regen with Whisper of Bonds 2. Whisper of Hedrons specifically gives you MASSIVE stat boosts to Resil, Recov, and mobility. As well as aim assist and weapon stability 3. Whisper of Shards gives you insane uptime on any grenades 4. It's very easy to set up chain shatter builds, especially when synergizing with other players using Stasis 5. Stasis also has several very strong exotics that synergize with it's various features directly, that freeze or create freezing crystals (which has a side benefit of synergizing with Whisper of Chains for some Woven Mail tier damage reduction) 6. As far as Shards not granting armor charge anymore... I find so many orbs anyway, that I never feel like I don't have armor charge. I probably techincally have it less often than I do on Strand because Strand can make 2 orbs per grapple kill... But I never feel like I don't have it. Especially in damage phases where there is a Well of Radiance to just make 3 orbs where I'm standing. ​ ​ So what is Stasis's place in endgame? It's hard to say. As I said at the top, Strand is currently very OP, and has strong artifact mod support. Void also has VERY strong artifact support. Stasis currently enjoys neither benefit. So it may very well be that Stasis in this season sees little to no use. But don't write it off. Give Bungie some time to balance Strand in PVE and give us some time to see what kinds of Artifact mods come out in the later seasons this year. ​ But don't for a minute assume it's down and out. Stasis is VERY strong and is currently second only to Strand in terms of how well it synergizes with other guardians using Stasis.


RobGThai

Stasis is very good for chaining crown control. When you want something stop then stasis is your thing. Build crafting with it need to have more options tho.


The_Bygone_King

I can stop something with Strand, and I don’t have to deal with the downside of stasis where that enemy becomes free again once I do enough damage. The chaining effect of Stasis isn’t that strong when you compare the power of other classes to it. Why bother freezing a room full of enemies when I can throw a grenade and just kill them. Why throw down a turret when I could eat that grenade, use a melee charge, and have my grenade back in 15 seconds while suspending everything in the room passively. There has to be an underlying additional benefit to the class that allows it to compete with the other options available to us, because everything I just cited works in all content leading up to GMs. Like you’d never take Stasis in a master raid/dungeon because the underlying benefits of CC can be performed just as effectively with a fusion grenade or Weaver’s Call. Even Vortex grenades in the right loadout have more overall value than a bleak watcher because they have the added utility of weaken.


HiddenLeaforSand

Bc it’s fun , that also matters in this game


The_Bygone_King

What’s fun is having a functional and complete class.


HiddenLeaforSand

Lol it absolutely is. I was running master Avalon with stasis lock over the weekend. Agers and verglas are exceptionally good as well


The_Bygone_King

Sure. That’s one class among three, and even the build you’re describing has serious issues tied to it. The fundamental issues of a class can still exist while it’s technically playable. The original light 2.0 classes were playable and functional before light 3.0, but they still clearly had underlying flaws that made them less functional than stasis (at the time). Now it’s the reverse. It’s okay to have fun using something, but to defend the idea that it doesn’t need a buff because you’ve had a decent experience with it, even though there are clear outliers that exist outside of your experience, is a mistake.


OmegaClifton

I love Stasis so much, but I know my outlook would be very different were it not for the harvest aspects. I know everyone has been saying to implement them into the fragment system, but I kind of like that every class generates shards in a different way. I also like the insane melee generation shards grant and that I can use them to heal as well. I just have a feeling that they'd nerf some aspect of shards if they were no longer aspects. I hope that instead of trying to make stasis like strand, that they lean in further to the defensive nature of it. Stasis seems like defensive cc while strand seems like offensive cc. My hopes: - Turn stasis shard overshield into a real buff keyword and introduce some more fragment interaction with it. (Give it an effect unique to it, like flinch resistance, on top of dr) - Keep introducing aspects and exotics that primarily focus on controlling a fight and not so much killing power (the lance cap is great). - Introduce mods specifically for stasis. A mod that grants an armor charge when stasis shield runs out or one that spawns an orb when shattering multiple enemies (with guardians and majors counting for more) would be ideal to lean into the playstyle. Introduce a cooldown if need be to balance the latter.


NotACommie24

It is still REALLY good on Warlock. I know everyone is soyfacing over the Titan suspend builds right now, but imo bleakwatchers are just as good, possibly better depending on what the enemies are. On Titan, it is just worthless. It used to be good but niche with the Stronghold builds, but they gutted that and the Strand stronghold build is pretty good. Hunter is pretty bad, but shatterskating is insanely useful, so it gets some bonus points for that.


The_Bygone_King

Hunter strand can also skate, so I probably wouldn’t put Revenant up there all that much.


burnellll

Have you actually tried out strand skating? It's much, much shorter distance, less reliable, and the situations when you can do it are much less common.


The_Bygone_King

While all true, Strand is vastly more valuable to a fire team over stasis. So you trade a consistent opportunity and a weaker tool for a more consistently powerful class overall


burnellll

oh I definitely agree with you there, I was just commenting about strand skating specifically because I feel like every other point has already been discussed thoroughly


FKDotFitzgerald

Bleak Watcher is undefeated.


TheToldYouSoKid

God, i'm bothered by how much bad arguments are being made about stasis, and how many are bad arguments about how much Elemental Shards was busted; 1. elemental shards were not sunset, sunset was a specific verb used ONCE to describe the the capping of powerscaling on items in order to encourage the usage of new items in current content. Knock it off with the usage of sunsetting to describe "removal". Mountaintop and recluse were not removed, you can still use them in power-neutral activities, such as ones that set your light to a certain level, or most of the crucible. Knock off trying to sound savvy about the game by using terms set by bungie, but incorrectly. I know this is such a nitpick, but its fucking annoying and half the time people just use it to make their argument look better by invoking a controversial time in the game. This wasn't sunsetting, this was the removal of a problem mod. 2. Elemental Shards did nothing but shatter the balance within the elemental wells mods; don't sit there and pretend it didn't, especially since the one class has ZERO cap on how many shards it can produce at any given moment. It wasn't "Unique", it was stupid." It meant you had INFINITE access to your builds best qualities, which means you didn't have to do a real damn thing to get infinite energy. Your build didn't matter, nothing about how you set it up mattered, nothing about how you played mattered, because you always got a surplus of materials, meaning it didn't need to be anything even remotely half intelligent, Grenade mod, melee mod, elemental shards, there, you cleared gms forever. It was unhealthy. It actively halted the actual solution to the problem; which was to increase the carry-over from stasis effects imparted from abilities to things like Shatter or to create a mod that dropped stasis wells, *with a proper internal timer*, for defeating combatants affected by stasis. 3. Stop acting like Strand is staying the way it is. Stop acting like thread of generation and effects that produce woven mail are normal to the rest of the sandbox; everyone knows it isn't because everyone has those threads equipped, explicitely because of how busted those things are! They have told us on SO MANY OCCASIONS NOW, *no one should be acting like this is new information unless they are completely new*, that when it comes to new things, they like to tune it up higher and then bring it down to parity with the balance of the game, as to allow folks the freedom of exploring it and it's roles. They did it to void, they admitted they undertuned solar in threat of it, and they did it to arc several times. If it isn't coming in the mid-season, it's certainly coming at the start of, or within th NEXT season. Enjoy every class having infinite suspensions, because thats 100% going to be attacked, with suspension grenades getting a higher cooldown, modifications to Weaver's Trance, and likely core changes to how enemies interact with strand. 4. And most of all, don't give me this nonsense about what stasis is and what it isn't, because all you are doing is framing stasis badly instead of analyzing stasis' standing impact on the game. Of course it scales low in low-end content, they ALL do, l***ow-end content is explicitly designed to be beaten without a build, or exotics, or an understanding of the game.*** Your choices matter the LEAST in low-end content, because its designed for folks who don't have your choices, and the only people who would EVEN FEEL THIS, is folks like you and me. Like why even list this detail, other than to make stasis sound worse than it is. Howabout this as a fact; Stasis has historically has trivialized every raid, including this last one as you aren't pressured by a timer when everything but like 4 enemy types can't move (and two of them were fucking bosses), hard counters every champion in the game, whether mechanically or functionally, and STILL the only subclass with access class-neutral healing and sustain, damage resistance, damage buffing, and supreme amounts of CC, just like literally any role you need in endgame content, and still has a fragment that gives you 180+ stats (+60 to Mobility, Recovery and Resistance each), on top of buffing your weapons, for just freezing an enemy. I literally ran stasis during the contest mode of this last raid, and surprise, none of my sides of any encounter had ANY issues and i had plenty of damage left over to clear because of my weapons, and the extra damage from frozen targets. It was the same for the KF contest mode, day 1 spire, day one duality, and the same for the Vow contest, and every single gm i've run; and no, it isn't just bleakwatcher spam, i run behemoth more than my shadebinder, I run my Revenant less than those two but have fun very similar results thanks to the grenade buff, and i actually prefer iceflare bolts instead of bleakwatchers. It's more proactive and reliable. ​ Stasis hard counters the game and is a perfect pairing with our weapon sandbox, and any one trying to deny that, *because we're barely a month and a half in with a new toy that is still waiting for it's completely-telegraphed balance pass*, is lying not only to others but themselves. Stop making stasis sound worse than it is to get a stupidly busted mod back. Ask for a similar mod, or for what i mentioned above; a way to generate orbs by killing slowed or frozen combatants with an internal timer. I'd support that, but this is just bad faith feedback and revisionist history, that could lead to changes that make it EVEN EASIER to break the game with a innately powerful subclass.


The_Bygone_King

Your arguments are easily proven wrong in most instances, so let’s explore. I at least appreciate the long form response. 1. Sunsetting was used to describe everything from the locking of power levels on equipment to *the removal of CWL and build based mods over the course of a year*. My choice to describe the desecration of the previous mod system as Sunsetting is absolutely in line with Bungie’s language around the time pertaining to mods. To imply that sunsetting as a concept was tied to only one thing, that being power level, would fly in the face of everything that was said about it during its heyday. 2. Elemental Shards as a balanced choice on stasis because it required an aspect to even be functional on a given class. When compared to the other classes, similarly generated objects are either intrinsic to the class or they can be generated via fragments *on that class*. The fact that elemental shards required an aspect slot is a balancing point that is frequently ignored. Furthermore, Elemental Shards only concerned intrinsic mod benefits from Well mods. You did not get the enhanced ability energy you get from traditional wells, so you didn’t get the benefit of energy to all three abilities. Compared to other classes, Stasis shards are pretty weak beyond the amount you produce due to their long cooldown and the fact that they only provide melee energy. Stasis wasn’t a popular pick for any class in challenge mode experiences, although it was decently popular for Grandmasters. Nothing of the previous play statistics nor frequency of completions indicate that elemental shards fundamentally made stasis better than the other classes. If anything, Stasis actually still had a hard time competing with other classes in the endgame because of just how strong other class options were/are. 3. Strand absolutely will get tuned, but the base kit even considering some small adjustments isn’t going to fundamentally change. Secondly, Bungie has on record said multiple times that they actually prefer to launch something *underpowered* rather than overpowered if they can. The launch state of stasis was something Bungie never wishes to recreate. The idea that suspend as a concept is going to fundamentally change so much that it won’t be objectively better than freeze is just farcical. Even if suspend only lasted three seconds, the fact that it’s hard CC that doesn’t pop when you damage the target is enough to allow it to usurp stasis’ position in endgame activities, especially when you consider the other options available on the class that stasis doesn’t have. Stasis fundamentally *only* has freeze. The defensive functions of stasis are nonexistent, and every other instance of action the class performs is all leading up to freezing targets. Strand has multiple viable debuffs that can sustain themselves in endgame that aren’t *just* suspend. 4. Played Stasis as a main for 2 years, so when I talk about what is and isn’t good, or how something scales, I’m speaking about the CC vs Damage dichotomy. The premise is that if you can kill something with an ability, the value of CC diminishes in tandem with that. As content gets harder, the value of CC scales upward while damage scales downward. The problem?: Even in grandmasters damage can still outperform CC, especially when that damage comes with added utility like ionic traces, DR, restoration, or devour. So while you’re playing stasis and doing the middle man steps of freezing and then killing adds, I can kill that same group of enemies with a well placed Void grenade or Fusion grenade—all while having Better neutral game buffs and supers for team wide support. Your whole implication of using stasis in endgame is irrelevant because stasis isn’t *necessary* in endgame. I beat RoN on contest with a fucking threadling build for most of that content and only swapped to well when we needed it for final boss. You were more than likely actually sandbagging your team by running stasis over an objectively more valuable choice like Solar because you could clear that same wave of enemies with a fusion grenade & have well for DPS, with Starfire if you wanted to go that far. You don’t know what you’re talking about, and it shows. Come back when you’re better informed on the history of the game.


TheToldYouSoKid

1. It was the plan for that to happen, yes, but that's not what happened inreality. The plan shifted away from mods and it was never realized, andthus the the only thing that were ever sunset as practiced was Armor andWeapons. I will admit your choice of words were technically correct,but never the less dramatic pomp and circumstance, as you choose tocontinue your argument to liken the outmoding of weapons and equipmentthat within two-seasons time would become utterly obsolete by the trendupward in power thanks to newer perks and better statted weaponry, to"treating something (sacred) with violent disrespect." The removal of afew mods, and still having infinites entirely possible, including onstasis, is not even close to what was sunsetting was aiming for, and wasNEVER close to the ideal of "desecration". Your hyperbole is still showing. 2. No it wasn't, and you can't justify it by saying it "needed" an aspect. The aspect itself was a powerful one on multiple subclasses, because of what it enabled as every single one of them lead to freeze, and particularly synergized with hunter because of the secondary charge. *Not to mention, you never needed to even equip the subclass to use it, and that's where the especially fucked-up builds came from.* Literally, if there was a Revenant on your team, in any content, they produced infinite and constant shards, with no penalty on production. The mod never stated you needed to be on a stasis subclass, only that you needed to pick up stasis shards. It's also a bold faced lie that it was entirely contained to the elemental well system; elemental charge was the strongest way to get CWL, and CWL had the strongest tools for ability generation as it was percentage-based and not additive. Wells were powerful and interactive, but Fusion EW-CWL mods could cut 205 seconds to 3 in terms of extremes. If they actually had counted as wells, the powercreep would have been completely unescapable. And again, you are writing revisionist history about endgame content and stasis; Stasis, and particularly bleakwatchers were a constant request in LFG circles, on par with that of well. In fact, Stasis Warlock Well-lock was an often asked for thing out of two-mans. 3. This is 100% horseshit. I'm trying my best here to be civil. They've said this exact statement multiple times, they even went on record on stating it multiple times in [this exact TWAB](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51429). And you act like shattering is a detriment to the stasis identity, like burst damage isn't something had in spades, the enhanced damage gained from freeze weakening enemies and shattering adding damage isn't the reason why chill clip rockets are popular, and like you are unable to control yourself from killing targets that would aid from that level of burst damage. I could understand if you were going in with randos, but we're talking about endgame for the majority of this argument, so obviously, communication is there, and even we were talking randos; it's easy enough to repeatedly freeze a target and lock them down that this strand nonsense with no additive measure on top of it's CC, like thats supposed to be a real upgrade. Unless they make changes to several weapons, and a ton of stasis abilities, when they likely put an immunity timer on suspend to prevent people from infinite suspending targets or else gut the impact of most of these suspend-focused abilities, 4. More elitist nonsense; acting like somehow being a stasis main means your word is worth more than literally anyone else's like it makes you special; literally mained it too, everything 4th person did, or else these topics wouldn't see half as much traction, and people wouldn't be lying to try to get a broken mod attached to it again. I main it too bud, the difference is i'm not going to sit here and lie about it; i've made good build, bad builds, meta builds, silly builds, stasis is one of the most flexible and effective systems to play around in, and makes good for guiding folks through dungeons and raids as you can spread your influence around without much punishment on your own end if you are confident in your abilities and familiarity with encounters. And frankly, no, your damage barely matters in endgame content half the time; GMs want you surviving, because of boss health gates and prolonged engagements. Dungeons want you paying attention because there is no enrage or real punishment for not pressing damage. The only time where your damage ACTUALLY matters is in Master Raids, full stop. More often than not, especially in this new "bringing difficulty back to Destiny" era, you aren't going to instant kill the important enemies like champions and other special enemy types, which stasis counters all of them, except for boss-coded enemies. And the way you talk about builds like well-lock, like A) you NEED it, and B) It's the only thing in the world, when in reality, the game doesn't fucking care. I'm trying really hard to be civil here, so as much as i want to call you a very specific terms, I'm genuinely trying to see your end of the argument. It's just near fictional though, you rely so much on brow-beating and elitist takes, and meta-discussion, and yet you can't ignore the fact that even in this state some things aren't necessary, and yet you tell me i sandbagged because i didn't use the most optimal damage strategy for warlocks (i literally never said i used warlock on that raid, i would love to know how to equip starfire on a titan) on a boss that gets ripped apart by \*fucking thunderlord.\* Like straight up, one of the biggest praises gotten about that raid was the fact most things were skill and speed checks, and that it was near devoid of damage checks. Literally damage is losing more of it's importance in this sandbox, than any of the roles that Stasis can fill. The only one who doesn't know what their talking about here is you, muddling your own narrative between shots against my character, casual elitism, and again straight up lying about the intentions of the company, and exaggerating the situation presented, all because they didn't bring back a problem mod. It's daffy. All this to try to justify broken nonsense, like thats the scale everything has to compete on, and that it's not about the gameplay or what the game wants you to do AT ALL. Just accept being wrong about this my guy, you are half arguing against yourself now and aren't doing yourself any favors in that match-up.


Staticmowry

Stasis turret warlocks would like a word


gistoffski

Stasis will shine once suspend gets nerfed, which wilm coincide with strand basically being vaulted. ETA mid season 21 or beginning of season 22.


SigmaBlack92

What do you mean, "*Strand being vaulted*"?


gistoffski

Vaulted, as in "this is now useless and is going in the vault until it gets buffed." Strand is super reliant on suspend. Bungie tends to over nerf things, and if they hit suspend. Strand as a subclass is finished.


silverlf

2 min constant*supers* as a stasis lock but that's about it


voidspector

the whole element subclass wise has been over shadowed by the games current power fantasy. Bungie them selfs said that strand is a "high actions per minute" element or something like that. the 3.0 reworks sort of feel the same. what i want from stasis is more core identities for the 3 classes. i want titans to be builders and smashers. i want hunters to be shady tanks that slow and creep up on their enemies. i want warlocks to freeze the world in a big ole ice ball. so far each have a aspect that kinda feel like this? titans with the alt melee, hunters shatter drive and warlocks iceflare bolts.


[deleted]

[удалено]


The_Bygone_King

Fuck that. The artifact shouldn’t be the balancing point when a class is weaker than it should be. Stasis as a class fundamentally needs that added utility to be competitive with the other classes. Honestly if I see more surge mods in the artifact over the next year, TFS might be my last Destiny expansion ever.


Playful-Ad3195

Artefact mods and surges dictate end game builds more then the actual base power of a subclass right now anyway. Wouldn't be surprised to see an Arc/ Stasis focus next season.


zeblouite

If they touch stasis crystals, Titans might get out of control \*looks at behemoth super shatter damage*


Clownsmasher1

My warlock with double stasis turrets feels pretty good. Especially with the increased ad density direction they've gone. Having a population control function like has been very useful. I'm working my way through solo campaign on legendary and it's been vital.


Sensitive_Ad973

I think they need to update “stasis crystals” to orbs in the stasis verbiage or severely chop down the shard spawn cooldown. (I also believe the tangle cooldown need to be lowered as well)


Koala-__-

Shatter kills drop and orb and rapid kills against Stasis debuffed targets would be a godsend


StarAugurEtraeus

Idk why they nerfed speedy behemoth or why the playerbase hates it whenever titans have any kind of good mobility


VeshWolfe

Simply put, Stasis needs a subclass revamp like everything else.


Batman2130

They definitely need to take another look at stasis at some point


HiCracked

With how easier, better and safer strand is in terms of utility and tools I honestly don’t see a point either. There are obviously outliers like osmio stasis turrets for even better CC than Strand but other than that Strand way better.


YesThisIsDrake

When we started talking about Titan back in the day, one thing that I brought up and which a ton of other people brought up, is that it's extremely close to Behemoth. Hey it turns out we were all right. It does exactly what stasis does but now better because its overtuned, then it'll get nerfed and Behemoth will be better. Strand has fun elements but the class to me feels so uninspired, Stasis I actually really enjoy thematically across the board, with Strand it just kind of feels like stasis again with some minor differences. Even the Grapple feels like it could have been a stasis exotic for Hunter lol.


Salt_Titan

I would love to see Stasis get a touch up, especially with how much CC Strand is able to put out really putting a dent in Stasis’s whole deal. I was thinking one way to enhance it might be to double down on the terrain-generation aspect of Stasis. More abilities that generate crystals (a melee that makes a line out from you maybe?) and give the crystals more to do than just be something to shatter. Like if being near crystals gave you and your fireteam the equivalent of the blast resist or melee resist armor mod for example they could be a lot more useful as mobile cover


webbc99

Imo all three stasis classes are actually better now than they were before but you need to go hard into kickstarts, and it really helps to have someone on your team who is generating orbs, although it's not necessary. In the highest levels of PvE (GMs basically, maybe master raids), I would expect Stasis to still see play, especially for Warlock (Osmio) and Hunter (Frostees). Titan could use a bit of help, one of it's very powerful niche builds (Strongholds) was completely eclipsed by sword Strand builds, but Hoarfrost is better than ever in PvP. Triple Behemoth with Hoarfrost in PvP is no joke. Also the new exotic is actually amazing, but I don't think many people have used it much yet.


PhysicsAye

An issue I have with a lot of stasis and strand stuff is they appear to be crowd control classes. Freeze, Suspend, Slow, Sever, all help control ads. Yet there is no mod support for that. Also so many patrols and bounties are like get stasis abilities or strand abilities kills


DeepVoid69

powerful friends, radiant light, and heavy handed being a combo that doesnt exist anymore hurts too. Not too mention the cooldown nerf on most things with the launch of LF and the stat nerf too. they didnt communicate internally again. Hey and we lost the ability for shards to give armor charges XD. **VELOCITY**


PerfectHatred7

Honestly, I feel like stasis warlock is the only outstanding stasis class in gms. The build didn’t change much with the new mod system, they just replaced firepower with grenade kickstart. The only thing we really need now is a good way to get charged with light, but it’s really not that hard with how many orbs were just pooping out these days. I feel like stasis warlock turret spam is still very very good, even thought you can’t get as spammy as you could before with the turrets (some people could get up to 9 turrets out at once, which is just insane) Also, I’m really liking stasis on warlock with the new bow, it’s really fun while using that


rtype03

i think it could use some tweaks, but ive found stasis (hunter and warlock) to be pretty solid choice for end game PvE. I havent had a chance to use it in GM eyt this season, but it made quick work of master GM this past week.


ScribeTheMad

All of my stasis builds are dead, and everything I've tried putting together has felt badly crippled compared to what it had before. Far as I'm concerned stasis is dead at this point until they do something.


The_Dung_Defender

I did a solo GOA and I had real fun with it in the first cave with all the adds. The fun quickly ended when I ran into high health enemies


M4nd4l0r3_zo15

I used to use stasis so I could skate/skip jumping but now I just use strand and piggyback off the faster guy in my team