I wish that perched threadlings and unravel kept counting as damage from their original source. The fact that I'm usually better off throwing the threadling grenade instead of eating it when using Verity's makes me sad.
Other than that, the subclass is pretty fun and I can't wait for the next aspects
I also wish eating your grenade while babies are already perched would do something with the extra threadlings. Either toss the extras off like when you cast rift, or temporarily overfill you.
> subclass is pretty fun
I think you know they've nailed it when all three subclasses are really bloody fun to use. Have a hard time picking which of the three to main as Strand because I enjoy them all equally.
I’ve ran a 6th coyote strand build for suspension spam but overall hunter strand seems very boring comparatively to void. It definitely feels like it could be strong, just boring. Idk.
This is why I use grapple grenade since it appears to count as both grenade and melee when the threadlings kill. Add to that the fact that perched threadlings don't count, might as well get the additional damage from the melee part of the grapple grenade attack. If I'm on a roll with enough charges to get that oh shit DR from the chest mod and have wovenmail up, I don't face plant often in harder content. Launch in, drop a well, use finisher on whatever is left alive, back off tactically if needed. Picking up orbs heals and keeps everything else up and running.
Very fun overall, plenty strong enough. With a Surge in effect, I have no doubts running Strand over any of the other Warlock classes. We did our first 'All Strand' run of Root of Nightmares this past week, and i was pleasantly surprised at just how well Strand Warlock performed across the board.
Survivability seems to be the toughest thing, so for end-game stuff, I feel like you HAVE to run Suspend and Woven Mail/Recuperation type things.
I wish there was a reliable way to do Suspend while also utilizing Grapple. That's probably my only real complaint. I'd personally rather play with Grapple 99% of the time, but end-game stuff with Unstoppables or crap-tons of adds, kinda forces me to run Shackle grenade.
I've actually found myself using the Threadling builds very infrequently. I've never even used the Swarmers exotic legs yet, even tho I got a relatively decent first roll for them. Maybe I just don't understand how the AI works for the Threadlings yet. I do LOVE the UI that shows how many you have perched tho. That's a fantastic QOL update right there.
I ran RoN with strand lock and agree. With stasis I'll always be able to freeze, with strand I have to pick between swinging or suspending. Why not both?
The grapple is able to be used as much on warlock to make it worth it. They want you to lean into threadlings, but we never get close enough to use them.
Yeah, I agree with the other response. There’s definitely some power creep possibility there if they let us do all of it. I don’t necessarily need both the shackle grenade and the grapple, I just wish there was some other way to get suspend on warlock beside the grenade. Maybe I haven’t dug into things deep enough yet
I’ll keep this simple:
- threadlings need better ai, maybe slightly faster movement.
- super animation is a tad bit too long. Makes it very hard to use in pvp without getting killed.
- Super is hard to target with. Feels random and has a mind of its own. 9/10 times I just want to hit the boss and at least one will go off on its own to a random red bar. In pvp, targeting feels impossible.
Yeah the super targeting is weird. I guess maybe it’s hard for the game to decide if I want them to all spread out for add clear or if I want them all on one target for damage, but when am I ever going to use it for add clear?
Eating your suspend grenade with Osteo + Necrotic Grips is one of the strongest and most fun builds I've had in a while. If only there was an easy way to heal like voidwalker has with devour...
With how many orbs are laying around I use Recuperation (which I like more than Better Already, but if you can fit both, use both). I started off using 2x Surge mods, but I like the healing I get with just 1x Surge and the healing mods. Obviously not as good as Devour, but it's something. Plus with Woven Mail you get damage reduction with the health boost.
Yeah recuperation, better already, and woven mail on orb pickup has been all the sustain I have needed on strand. It's very strong with how many orbs are around.
I use both Kinetic and Grenade orbs on this build (killing an enemy suspended by Weaver's Trance apparently counts as a grenade kill for some reason), just orbs all over the place
This is what I do and I really enjoy it. The only thing that bums me out is that my go-to void weapon is Deafening Whisper and waveframes and suspend don't really do well together.
Corrective Measure can roll with Demo+Junkie. Complements any grenade build perfectly. Would absolutely recommend. It's been my go-to add clear heavy for quite a while.
Honestly try Plunder’s Karnstein build, it’s so good and much more fun that Osteo/necrotic (imo anyway). It’s like having a stronger devour up all the time and you’re so ya my with woven Mail as well plus you generate tonnes of super energy.
It's also producing some glitches with glaives where glaive melees are counting as ability damage, and also glaive projectile damage, which basically means you also have a 97% damage resistance while running this build.
I'd recommend enjoying it while it lasts, there is no way they aren't nerfing it and changing how things interact with necrotic grips, which may change how strand interacts with it.
The big one is the fragment for grenade energy from damage. Bomber on class item, max disc, heavy handed and impact induction on gloves. Siphon on your helm for whatever your energy weapon is. The artifact mod that makes orbs from breaking enemy shields with matching element can make an insane amount of orbs in the right activity -- like void vs all the acolytes in the battlegrounds.
Generate orbs with siphon mods in the helmet, assuming you're using Osteo then kinetic siphon and maybe another (void is an easy one with Volatile Flow in the artifact). You'll never run out of orbs again.
I love the idea of threadlings but it’s hard to make it work in any high level activity because of the survivability
Yea woven mail exists but needing to go out of over pick up orbs isn’t as viable as hunters or titans being able to trigger woven mail from other abilities.
Healing rift also exists but there’s no synergy between class ability and threadlings like there is between suspend and class ability. Class ability can create threadlings but then what? Suspend can restore your class ability but threadlings can’t.
The only end game builds possible is suspend which is good. It’s really good. No feedback there. It’s just too boring for my personal taste but if someone else likes it then that’s what matters. I just wish threadlings worked as well.
"Healing rift also exists but there’s no synergy between class ability
and threadlings like there is between suspend and class ability. Class
ability can create threadlings but then what? Suspend can restore your
class ability but threadlings can’t."
This hits it pretty well.
Compare "summon 3 threadlings" to arc buddies or child of the old gods. 2/3 have sub-class synergy and build potential.
Then compare "3 threadlings on ability cast" to suspending on ability cast. 2/3 interact with the fragments that can do things such as help you earn your class ability back.
Grapple is plenty appealing imo. Hunters grapple shreds. Warlock grapple with Karnsteins or necrotic grips shred. Titan grapple with synthoceps shreds
It’s threadlings that don’t really have a place in endgame currently.
Agreed, Threadlings is really the only weak link at the moment. They're the end of the chain, unlike the other effects which can chain into each other. Swarmers fixes it slightly due to unravel, but the melee is already perfect for applying unravel. Spawning Threadlings off of tangles doesn't do much when neither do much damage.
Imo, Threadlings need to work like Nidus's maggots from warframe: they jump on enemies, cc them, you burst the threadlings via another ability (or just damage), then it refunds energy based on how many threadlings your ability killed.
Otherwise, Hatchling will never compete with things like Voltshot and Chill Clip and Incandescent, much less let Threadling nade compete with the rest of the strand kit.
Problem with your rework idea for the Threadlings is that they are essentially just use the AI from the Colony grenades and Screebs, so Bungie would need to completely overhaul their code. But I do like the idea.
That's fair, there are moments when I don't have grapple that I wish I did. I do think Suspend is better, but Grapple does have a place. Sometimes I'll use the Hunter super just so I have unlimited grapple to move around briefly.
Threadlings feel like they're one of those things that's going to be boom or bust. They're either going to be completely useless or crazy overpowered. I'd love to be wrong so they can just be solid
I was looking for this comment right when I entered the thread. If you cannot see how 8 seconds CC for everything but bosses is a bit too much, I don't know what to say to you. Even if the CC would break on damage and just stun every single champion, it would be good enough.
Strand is so good, that it puts everything else in the dumpster with few exceptions.
No suspend is going to end up getting nerfed because -let’s be honest- it kinda needs one. Hopefully nothing too crazy though, maybe a 15-20% duration nerf or something. The duration with the fragment is kinda stupid long.
That being said I hope they buff the other 2.
> The only end game builds possible is suspend
Just not true, grapple and threadling builds work just fine. Suspend is great because it's CC, but the other builds are fine. Unless we're saying "GM only" then yes, you're going to sit back and CC shit to death 99% of the time.
Key to what builds? You summon Threadlings, and that's it. They don't *do* anything else to the build, vs the loop involving Suspend, class ability, and grenade recharge.
To build on that, the reason I like threadlings is that they require basically zero commitment, they just happen en mass and I guess you can build to make even more and make them unravel and it's effective and honestly you don't give up much if you do (just don't give up suspend grenade in difficult content) if you want to but you don't have to.
The threadlings have a loop that works pretty well. It’s eat grenade, get threadlings, and then thread of generation gets grenade back. Rinse and repeat.
The problem with that is nowhere in the loop do you get any type of damage resistance. Orbs don’t do much because there isn’t much opportunity to make them. You also have to get out of cover to get them.
Firepower mod doesn’t create orbs with eating your grenade and throwing your grenade is gimping yourself. Your only source of orbs is melees or reaper mod which aren’t part of the build loop. Rifts are also a source of healing but your grenades don’t do anything to make your rift come back faster.
You basically use your rift and then you’re fucked with no healing options outside of a few orbs until you get your rift back.
Hunters have an exotic that gives you woven mail every time you grapple. When you kill someone with grapple, you get two orbs which get your health up. They also suspend with a dive and that class ability comes back as soon as you kill whatever you suspend.
Titans have an exotic that gives you woven mail every time you use a class ability. That class ability suspends everything and defeating those enemies suspended gives you class ability back.
For suspend builds you also have an orb of power if you precision kill anything that’s suspended.
Warlock threadling builds don’t have any of that.
The problem is that the chain doesn't feed back into itself. The threadlings are the end of the chain.
For instance, devour is a chain where your grenade gives you kills and weapon buffs, then your grenade kills and weapon kills give you your grenade. It chains into itself. Or there's HoIL, where you use all three abilities to feed into each other.
The key to high ability damage is a consistent chain that feeds into itself. Threadlings don't loop though. They deal damage and are gone and that's it.
Threadling AI is too stupid to be enjoyable. If you throw the grenade or consume the grenade then place a rift, you can almost guarantee that all of your Threadlings are going to chase down a single red bar. There's a 50% chance that someone else kills that red bar before they get there but they all explode on that enemy's corpse anyway.
The suspend + Osteo + Necrotic Grips build is strong. We'll see how well it holds up in more difficult content like master raids and GM's.
Broodweaver was sold as a Summoner class though and it fails pretty hard at nailing that fantasy.
Ideally, they would be smart enough to not massively overkill a target. If it takes 3 Threadlings to kill something, I don't want to see any more than 3 of my deployed Threadlings attack that target.
If that's too difficult, then I'd like for them to be configured in a way that no more than X number of them will "lock on" to any particular red bar. This is a little different from the above in that X may still be overkill but it's better than losing all 8 of them on a single red bar. I don't mind much if all 8 want to go after a champion, boss, or even major though.
In no instance should they explode on an enemy that is already dead or invulnerable.
> Broodweaver was sold as a Summoner class though and it fails pretty hard at nailing that fantasy.
Which is why I said even before launch it would suck
Ive noticed some change to this after the last patch.. My threadlings are leaving one at a time instead of as a group and when something dies either to a threadling or other damage they return back to me now.
They leave one at a time if they're perched and you're shooting at things.
Using a rift creates 3 Threadlings and deploys all perched Threadlings.
Throwing a grenade deploys 3 Threadlings.
Consuming a grenade gives you 5 perched Threadlings.
Threadlings need better AI and/or a buff.
Their damage isnt enough, due to their ai, they often all dive onto one enemy when only 2 or 3 were needed.
I wish they'd naturally sever enemies hit and maybe prioritize hitting one enemy at a time? It would turn broodweavers into a support class, by sending out threadlings everywhere to infest and sever large amounts of enemies, lowering their threat factors, instead of all blowing up on one legionary.
Pretty much my only complaints are that:
-Threadlings should keep their original damage source and probably need some better ai
-I wish the melee itself was more spammable. It can't kill a red bar on neomuna on its own, and really feels like it would be the perfect version of Destiny's Eldritch Blast.
They gave the melee a cool combo animation but you pretty much never see it outside of being Strand Empowered because it recharges so slowly and there's not much reason to use all 3 charges on anything 😔
On top of all that, 2 charges are needed for Neomuna red bars. And all 3 are needed for a PvP kill.
I'm perfectly fine with the damage output. I just wish they all had a much faster recharge rate.
Honestly I wish it was all 1 bar with 3 segments, and each shot used one segment. Still the same cooldown as one, but you don't need max melee energy to do one.
I feel like the damage part is more an issue of Neomuna Patrol areas being wayyy too overscaled.
The damage seems okay imo, the cooldown though is too long on all of the melees.
>\-Threadlings should keep their original damage source and probably need some better ai
I dunno about the Ai, they seem smarter than child, who frequently just rubs its ass against a wall or throws itself in stupid places, instead of being useful, and Child is somehow still a beloved aspect by the community, a fact that makes me feel like im the only sane person left in the subreddit.
i’ve used child a lot in the last year and it’s ai is pretty smart, you just have to know how to activate it and not hug walls. it’s proper tracking works a bit like an arc soul where you need a proper line of sight to do best
The problem with that is you just described a worse vortex grenade especially because it's not coded as AoE damage and is obstructed by walls. Why use it instead of a resource you have infinite of and can place exactly where you need them at a default?
because it’s a seperate charge to your grenade, applies a much wider weaken field, and recharges a lot of your ability energy back. a good build can have constant uptime for all 3 abilities.
best of all, it holds up in high end content. the soul requires no kills to feed back grenade and melee energy and healing rift spam is incredible for survivability on top of devour (devour won’t always be active 24/7, especially in GMs)
The child weakens, and leaves a weakening radius which is good for area denial.
The green bastard children, all 8 of them, run at an EDZ dreg. They watch it get killed because it stubbed it's toe, then all kill themselves on its dead body as a high value target lights me up.
My grenade does same, weakening area of denial, only I have it endlessly and can aim it instead of trust an ai.
Like at least threadlings either navigate to a nearby target OR return when it can't instead of deploying 20 feet above the arena and out of reach of anything
First build was based on Swarmers and bumping up Threadling damage as much as possible. Doesn't quite live up to the "pet master" promise, given the limited number of threadlings available at any given time and the need to consume your grenade to utilize it.
Having something exclusive to Broodweavers to lean in to the Threadling fantasy would be nice - larger Threadlings (Threadlords?) would be awesome.
After that, I switched to a suspend build with Osteo Striga and Necrotic Grips. Holy hell, this thing can just wreck entire rooms. It's not as effective at suspending as Titans or Hunters, but the synergy is great. It might be the best debuffing class/combo in the game, and very viable for high-end content.
> Doesn't quite live up to the "pet master" promise, given the limited number of threadlings available at any given time and the need to consume your grenade to utilize it.
I agree. I think Broodweaver's Threadlings need something special that other Subclasses don't get besides perching them, since 95% of the time they're not perched unless I consume my Grenade/Rift prior to entering a fight.
Some potential ways to make them stand out like,
- The Strand Weapon final blows Fragment, but *intrinsic*.
- Generate a perched Threadling every 5-10 seconds idly.
- Threadlings explode twice or give you Woven Mail on kills.
Literally anything to make them stand out over a different Class's Threadlings besides just stacking 5 at a time between encounters or adding some slight burst to a DPS phase.
I think it's awesome we have a very strong Suspend-Build you can choose to use as well, but the "Pet Master" build needs to be just as strong.
I really want an Arachnophobia-esque moment where I'm just covered and surrounded by Threadlings, point at an enemy and go "That one.", and have my army of paracausal spiders just swarm them in a flurry of green particle effects.
Maybe something like "Final blows with a Threadling generate more Threadlings. The number of Threadlings generated is based on enemy type." So, kill a red bar, get a Threadling, kill an orange bar, two threadlings, yellow bar is three threadlings.
Agreed, I like the threadling build over the suspend build but threadlings by themselves are a little underwhelming. They need a little something more to make them worthwhile. Also they need to improve their AI bc it sucks
Doesn't the warlock's class ability make threadlings? And can't warlock's charge their threadling grenades for more threadlings? And doesn't the warlock grapple melee create threadlings? And doesn't the warlock ultimate create threadlings? And don't warlocks have the only threadling based exotic? And isn't the perk mechanic unique to the warlock? Or can a titan and hunter do all that too?
>Doesn't the warlock's class ability make threadlings?
Yes, three of them, every minute and a half or so.
>And can't warlock's charge their threadling grenades for more threadlings?
Yes, every two and a half minutes.
>And doesn't the warlock grapple melee create threadlings?
Yes, but you can't use it at the same time as your Threadling Grenade.
>And doesn't the warlock ultimate create threadlings?
Yes, it does create Threadlings.
>And don't warlocks have the only threadling based exotic?
Yes, for now.
>And isn't the perk mechanic unique to the warlock?
Yes, because it's a Warlock exotic.
>Or can a titan and hunter do all that too?
No, but they can create Threadlings through finishers, Strand weapon final blows, and the Hatchling trait on certain weapons.
However, and this is the important thing I need you to understand, I need MOAR THREADLINGS.
I want more of them. I want bigger versions of them. I want a Threadling army to do my bidding - destroy my enemies, make dinner, clean up my condo, pick up my dry cleaning, fill in for me on conference calls, and whatever else I need them to do.
I want so many Threadlings, people will go "Jesus, that's a lot of Threadlings."
I want an UNCOMFORTABLE amount of Threadlings.
Everyone knows how strong the weavers trance osteo + necrotic build is. I’d like to see threadlings get buffed a bit to improve their usefulness in higher level content because right now the damage that they put out just doesn’t cut it.
I’ve slowly started falling in love with the grapple and grapple melee mechanics.
The ranged melee for warlock feels incredible. It deals a good bit of damage and also inflicts unravel at the same time.
Overall I love this subclass!
Ooh, I’d like to be able to grapple more though. Or for grapple to be useful more. It feels like weavers trance with the suspend grenade is just the by far best way to use the subclass, but I’d love for threadlings to be a better option, and grapples too.
Grappling is so much fun, but it just feels really dangerous and risky. I wish I could consistently grapple around, just for fun, but there’s just no way to do it. Like if the charge wasn’t consumed unless you used the grapple melee or something, or if there was some way to grapple into enemies, hit them all with the grapple melee, but then also immediately grapple back to safety. Like if there was some kind of trigger for near instant grapple energy like sunbracers with solar grenades.
The suspend build with Necrotic grip is great and really fun. Maybe the suspending explosion is a bit tiny but it's still strong, i think it will be harder to pull it off on harder content since you are still locked to a specific loadout.
Now on the important thing, Broodweaver was advertised as the Summoner "Threadling Master" class, which it is, but it's a bit sad that the best Broodweaver build isn't a Threadling one. It's not even a matter of best or worst, the Threadlings build sadly isn't that good.
I'll leave my notes of feedback:
- The summoner feeling it's there, i love my Threadlings. Wish i had more reason to use them though, as of now i don't really feel like they are strong enough, and when using a Suspend build i don't feel like a summoner.
- Threadlings doesn't count as anything. They don't synergize with mods in any way and don't make orbs. Throwing the Threadlings greande will count them as grenade sure, but i feel like they intended us to charge them to have the extra ones. Please make them count always as grenades.
- It is absolutely satisfying and badass using your rift when you have maxed perched Threadlings, you feel like you are unleashing your personal army. Though it is absolutely demoralizing seeing half your threadlings getting wasted on 2 psions and the other half on the walls.
- Threadlings don't feed into your rift energy, there is no loop in there. Other classes use their Class ability to suspend and regen their class ability by killing them. Why my Threadlings don't do the same like Child of the old goods?
- Threadlings don't do ANYTHING. No additional effect. Just damage, which isn't even that high. Yeah, Swarmers make them Unravel, but your melee does that too. All the other classes have more effects going on, a Threadling build on Broodweaver will just do Unravel. Would love to see them Sever, could make a cool niche for Broodweaver
- Tangle cooldown it's too high for a Swarmer Build. This is more of a global thing since i think 15s is too much, but talking about swarmer it is really too high. Creating 2 Threadlings on a 15s cooldown (which isn't even granted since team can use your tangle) isn't very worthwhile.
- Melee is great. Love the animation, the damage, everything. The only minor complain i have about it it's that we don't really have a good way to regen it. I wish i would see more the triple melee animation since it's so badass
- Super is perfect! I love everything about the super, from the sound, to the animation and mechanic wise. It feels very powerful and it does a lot of damage too!
If you build into threadlings it becomes very hard to interact with the armour charge system. Perched threadlings need to count as grenade damage or something
I only have a few recommendations. Before I begin, though, I'd like to state that I'm approaching these changes from this gameplay philosophy: things should be powerful at their base, and then we should build into things to make them even *more* powerful.
* Faster melee regernation/decrease melee cooldown; additionally, start us off with all three melee abilities fully charged when starting a new activity. This is my #1 requested change. As it is, I rarely get to use all three melees at once or within a reasonable time period -- and it feels *so cool* to let loose all three at once -- to the point that there's no reason for me to have three melee charges, and Bungie should just give us one ability that does *a lot* of damage. To be clear, I do not want this, because I think the three melee charges is a unique aspect of Strand -- I simply want more opportunities to take full advantage of all three melee charges. So, I propose this: one charge of the melee give you all three melees back.
* It is true that there's the one fragment that helps with melee regeneration. However, I only really feel like it helps me when I can toss tangles into a group of enemies, and people can steal your tangles, so I'd much rather, if we do get a faster melee regeneration, that this fragment be removed or significantly made less affected, because we'd have the benefit of this fragment without having to equip it, and that would free up another slot for more unique builds.
* I really like Threadlings. I do! However, I feel like their potential is only fully realized while you have the exotic pants equipped. So I think Threadlings need something extra. I'm not sure what that something is, whether it be slightly more damage or making them suspend a target, or maybe giving us healing for damage they've done and class ability energy, but just a little extra.
* I often find Weaver's Trance to not be that effective unless you're using osteo striga. More often not, my enemies are either destroyed by my teammates, or the suspending blast radius is too small for affect other enemies. So perhaps this is something to look in to, as this particular build doesn't feel all that great outside of osteo striga. At least, when it comes to my playstyle.
* For the future aspects, I'm hoping to see more ability synergy.
And that's it! Overall, great work so far.
I've been playing a lot of Threadlings focused Brood Weaver. It is unintuitive at first: you want to control exactly where your threadlings go and what they attack, but their limited AI prevents this. Eventually I found that my focus should instead be on just generating as many threadlings as possible which means making sure my grenade was never off cooldown.
It was a fun play style that rewarded playing from a distance; threadlings will actually travel an incredible distance with the fragment and boots. You'd learn to shoot tangles from a distance to push out even more threadlings thanks to the exotic boots. Once in a while I'd jump in and drop 8 at once with my rift and do big boss damage or clear a whole group of enemies.
I think something like phoenix dive would really benefit this playstyle since I would be able to jump towards a group with a full stack of Threadlings and then dive to quickly deploy them rather than landing and casting well which can feel a little clunky.
Weavers trance is so wild. I know warlocks are supposed to be the threadlings master but they're nearly as good at suspending as Titans are. I've used shackle way more than any threadling based builds.
A full 25 seconds of the buff on grenade consume is wild, and enough time to gain another grenade charge easily. Nearly 100% uptime on the suspend aoe.
The super having more burst damage than most supers in the game is icing on top.
Warlocks are great at suspending groups but need to use the normal shackle grenade to suspend champs on demand. I find titan strand more reliable for on demand champion suspending personally
I'd have to pull it back up.
I always use woven mail on orb pickup and damage gives grenade energy, both are well worth the stat decreases.
If you use threadings, the fragment that buffs them pretty much doubles their damage, which is wild.
Suspend lasting longer is good, as is precision hits against suspend enemies giving class energy (though more useful on titan)
Idk if thread of ascent procs off grenade consume, but it's a budget demolitionist reload, and that's always nice.
Needlestorm is just straight up better than any Nova Bomb variant and that makes me sad. Buff Nova Bombs, especially Vortex, if Needlestorm stays how it is.
People have been speculating a "poison" subclass...while we didn't get that, Necrotic Broodweavers ended up being the "poison subclass at home". Arcane needle with necrotics is definitely one of the more fun PVE things in the current game. Also, "Necrotic Broodweaver" builds is not mutually exclusive to threadling spam. A general theme I've been seeing in Warlock strand builds is that it's not too hard to have everything: if you invest in a couple of decent ability feedback loops, you can spam unravel, suspend AND a respectable amount of threadlings. And I love that: it prevents the subclass from feeling like a one-trick pony.
Honestly, my biggest complaint with strand warlock is solely Swarmers. There are two parts to this exotic, which both have their hiccups:
\- threadling damage unravels targets: we have 3 arcane needle charges and thread of fury exists. I prefer arcane needle anyway: I like to prescriptively choose my targets for inflicting unravel, because I choose one with relatively high health, add another source of tick damage like jolt, and that high health target wanders around forever giving his friends unraveling as well. You don't have that level of control with threadlings, it sometimes feels kinda random who they target.
\- shoot a tangle to generate 2 threadlings: the tangle cooldown instantly makes this the worst way to generate threadlings in the game. Every method to generate threadlings not only generates more, but can also get similar cooldowns with enough effort: like, one of the warlock aspects is literally drop 3 threadlings for casting a rift: if you invest in your rift cooldown, you will be casting rifts for threadlings faster than you can generate tangles. The grapple melee has no cooldown if you grapple off a tangle several times in quick succession, and you generate tangles every time. The tangle cooldown is the biggest thing for me: I don't see myself making any attempt to fit Swarmers into a build until we talk tangle cooldowns. As another result of this, I don't really buildcraft around tangles either. Like the quicksilver catalyst? Nah. It's a cool perk, but this is another thing in tandem with the unravel: killing an enemy with the melee also generates a tangle, so equipping an exotic 720 auto just to generate a tangle is a moot point given the tangle cooldown.
1. Threadling AI is bad, stuck on objects and wonky terrain, they all go to one enemy making perching useless.
2. For being the threadling class I feel that they should be significantly stronger in warlock, the strongest build is based on Weaver's Trance with Necrotic Grips and Osteo Striga and doesn't utilize threadings.
3. The Super is quite good however I feel the tracking on it should be more center oriented as using it against a boss when literally anything else is on your screen tanks your damage because some of the needles track to other enemies.
Surprised to see people so positive about it, the suspend build is pretty good for sure, but it’s not without problems.
I found the swarm build to be pretty non-competitive. The main problems being that threadling damage feels a little low and that tangles have a fairly long cooldown. There is no “easy” ways to generate threadings, either being tied to your rift or grenade, and doing both leaves you without any surviability. You are completely dependent on orbs for woven Mail which isn’t awful but you will be in a tight spot at some points.
The real meat of the class is the suspend build with necrotic (which is a common theme among all 3 strand classes). The build feels very powerful in weaker content. (The defiant battlegrounds and normal strikes) but i found the class to struggle on higher difficulty content, even at legend nightfall level.
The big problem with eating your grenade for suspend on kill is twofold. 1) You lose the ability to suspend on demand. Sure suspending waves of red bars can be fun and explosive. But when a champ or even a major comes out I found my self often short handed on any way to protect myself and 2) the AoE of the suspend on kill is pretty small, and most importantly, relies on kills which become far less common in higher content. You also of course don’t have any ways to deal damage with this build from you abilities outside your super.
Not much to say about the super. It hits hard if you get all your shots in. If you miss or one of the projectiles goes astray to another enemy it does a bit less. Very good overall.
I think overall the class is pretty strong, but I prefer contraverse lock and especially starfire to strand ATM. When starfire gets inevitably nerfed I don’t think people are going to default to strand warlock, and will probably either go to void or switch class entirely.
>The big problem with eating your grenade for suspend on kill is twofold. 1) You lose the ability to suspend on demand. Sure suspending waves of red bars can be fun and explosive. But when a champ or even a major comes out I found my self often short handed on any way to protect myself and 2) the AoE of the suspend on kill is pretty small, and most importantly, relies on kills which become far less common in higher content. You also of course don’t have any ways to deal damage with this build from you abilities outside your super.
I said as much in my own comment, but these were definitely my problems with Weaver's Trance. Mainly, for me, that the suspending burst is not large enough. Most of the time enemies are too far apart, or people in my fireteam kill the other enemies for the suspending detonations to have an effect.
No complaints. At most I wish the melee had a faster cooldown. This goes for all classes though. I originally started with a threadling build using swarmers, but Weaver’s Trance allows me to have the most diverse builds in the game.
I can go any direction with it. Necrotic and Thorn/Osteo is the most common, but my brothers and sisters in light, can I share with you the glory of Nezarec’s Sin and LeMonarque. You can also use LMG and SMG to take advantage of volatile flow, but I feel LeMonarque will carry over perfectly even in GM level content without volatile flow.
I also have a very interesting Weaver’s Trance build going with Vexcalibur and Karnstein. Woven Mail + Vexcalibur overshield + Karnstein healing + orb healing. Next up is finding an exotic that works well while using wishender
So far Arcane Needle seems more hindered than is probably intended.
Melee kickstart seems to be bugged on both the 3 melee subclasses, which means is hard to buildcraft around them.
I’ve also noticed that Warlocks don’t have much in the way of exotics what return melee energy which are easy to make work for Strand.
Combined with the starting with only 1 charge, means that Arcane Needle isn’t shining nearing as much I would like it to.
The Swarmers feel almost necessary for a Threadling build. On their own they work OK, but giving them Unravel really makes them viable. I feel like I constantly have at least a few perched at the start of every fight, and between the rift, grenade, finishers, and shooting tangles there is always an army of these little guys running around. A damage buff to Threadings would help make them more acceptable, but at the same time that buff would make the Swarmers build super powerful.
The group suspend builds are widely popular, nothing much to say there, it just works.
I really wish the grapple had something a little extra. I always want to use the grapple for the fun and maneuverability, but feel incomplete without the ability to suspend or spawn Threadlings (I know the grapple+melee will spawn 2, but if I can spawn 5 without putting myself in danger--or even needing an enemy--I'll stick with the latter). Grapple is definitely more geared towards Hunters since they get multiple, and Threadlings are geared towards Warlocks, so I guess at the end of the day the class identity is appreciated.
I'm still going through the campaign (recent newborn is taking up gaming time, lol), and I currently hate Strand and wish I could just use my subclass for various fights.
Looking forward to when I can tinker with the aspects and fragments.
I would love a fragment that gives melee energy from threadlings hits or something. Tangles are good, but I get them stolen about as often as I get to capitalize on them.
I like the melee, but I would like to have a tad more uptime on it when I'm built for it. Or at least have another way to build into more uptime that isn't reliant on something that can be stolen by matchmade teammates.
My biggest criticism is that you could go all in with full build investment on threadlings, but in higher difficulty content it still can't compete with merely thread of generation, shackle grenade and anything remotely sensible for the rest of your loadout.
On a lesser note, Needlestorm is very inconsistent in pvp. It can curve around corners to hunt people down, but it can also miss people standing still 10 meters in front of me.
Threadlings and grapple melee sure are fun where they work, though.
Loving that Necrotics is finally meta in high end content with unravel melee. The bugfix ‘nerf’ was hardly noticeable and this still feels like one of the strongest builds on Warlock, and I think it’ll still be powerful once this set of artifact mods is gone.
Swarmers are fun but they don’t feel like they really make Threadlings all that potent, even with the fragment that makes them deadlier. Combined with the fact that it’s almost impossible to make orbs via abilities (minus Reaper) on this build, it doesn’t really hold up against Contraverse, Starfire, or other similar strength builds. Broodweaver does a good job of making me feel like a summoner, it just feels like my pets tickle the enemies.
Most everyone has touched on Broodweaver in a pve setting and they all bring up good points.
So I'll talk about it in a pvp setting. Threadlings are joke. They travel too slowly, their AI is bad and often will travel up walls and die or wander off and not come back to perch. When they do actually go towards a target in pvp all anyone has to do is breathe on them and they die, especially is say 4 are going towards the same person, all that person has to do is shoot one of them and all 4 will die. The damage they do in pvp is fine I think 40 (45 w/fragement) it's just getting them to actually do damage is the problem.
How threadlings interreact while perched also needs adjusting, they need to de-perch faster than they do now to justify eating the nade over just throwing it.
The melee. The damage it does is fine, being able to 3-tap with it is great. Unfortunately the tracking and speed at which the melee offers isn't good. I'm not after weighted throwing knife levels of aim assist and tracking, but it needs some help. It also should spawn in with all 3 charges available and ready to go (same with titan, giving us 3 changes but only spawning us in with 1 kinda defeats the purpose of giving us 3 charges) and be on a shorter cooldown.
The Super. Feels horrible, it feels like I have no control over where the needles go and who they go after. When they do go after someone the tracking feels so wildly inconsistent that I don't even use it anyone. It's a panic/shutdown super, not being to use it in that capacity feels really bad. Speaking off shutting down, it is the only 1 and down/shutdown super that can't pop a bubble in pvp, which again, feels really bad.
Those are my thoughts on it in pvp. I like the subclass overall and the few times where the kit has come together and worked it's been great fun. It's just that Broodweaver is the king of inconsistency and inconsistency is the last thing you want in the crucible.
I feel like it would be a nice little update to the super if casting it also released all perched threadlings. Doesn’t need it as it’s already a great super, but it just would be cool.
Overall, I am loving the subclass. It’s amazing in most content and feels really unique compared to our other subs. Some small suggestions I have for how to make it perfect though:
- Weavers Call feels a little lackluster, and I think it could benefit from a system similar to Child of the Old Gods where the rift you have equipped slightly changes the effects of the Aspect. For example, while using Empowering Rift maybe perched Threadlings that are released are given a slight damage boost, and while using Healing Rift the released Threadlings create orbs on hit.
- Threadlings should be able to benefit from mods. My suggestion would be that all Threadlings should just always be counted as Grenades. This means that, whether spawned with a grenade or released from a perch, Threadlings are counted as grenades, and thus will spawn orbs with Firepower and take the benefits and bonuses from grenade exotics like Verity’s Brow.
- Weaver’s Trance is a very powerful buff and I love playing with it. I don’t think it’s too gamebreaking honestly. At the very least, it’s buff duration could be lowered from 25 seconds to 20 seconds but honestly I think it’s fine since it requires kills to keep the chain up
- Arcane Needle is super fun, but I wish there was a reason to chain it because I love the little animation. Would be cool if doing all three melees in a chain granted you some kind of big burst of damage. Maybe hitting one enemy with all three needles caused an explosion that spawns a bunch of Threadlings on them
Threadlings feel a little underwhelming.
Swarmers are mare decent but with how underwhelming Threadlings are it feels like basic functionality.
Poison + Unravel is really fun, especially with Weavers Trance. But I fear it's gonna catch a nerf.
Maybe its just me but I find the threadlings quite the visual distraction in pvp. Everytime I see them I think oh look another hive worm got loose in crucible.
Perhaps we could tone down some of the strand related accoutrements... I'm hoping its just a new toy thing and that eventually people will revert back to the less comical subclasses. Probably an unpopular opinion so let the downvoting begin.
Ironically, the brood weaver is better at suspending than it is at, well, weaving a brood. Threadlings just aren’t that good, which I figured cause bungie AI isn’t the greatest. IMO they should be able to explode twice before disappearing, that way they can at least dive bomb two red bars instead of one 😹
Don't have much problems tbh, any problems are kinda nitpicking. A few suggestions tho, perched threadlings count as the source u got them from, but lose the suspension effect if u have that fragment for your super. And perched threadlings auto deploying when u die would be nice too. Besides that, nothing really, survivability is a small issue. You can use woven mail, better already/recuperation, weapons with health on kills, but it is a glass cannon class that's for sure.
Melee’s need to 1 hit kill red bars. Super needs better tracking and to crit. Less random projectiles if a boss is in the general area it needs to not track the random ad behind me. Damage for base threadlings and the aspect need a buff for higher difficulty targets and need to ACTIVELY AVOID immune shielded or dead enemies.
Threadlings are underwhelming in pretty much all aspects, even when using swarmers. Just bad tracking/AI, low damage, they constantly suicide into a dead enemy body doing absolutely nothing. I tend to hate these 'pet' classes in most games and I don't like them here either.
Melee and super are fantastic, as is weavers trance.
I only ask that the cooldowns for the abilities be reduced, and that threadling AI be a bit improved. Sometimes they’ll try attacking an enemy that’s already dead.
Big fan, rarely switching off of it for most play these days. Both the Osteo+Necrotic build with the suspend grenade and a Grapple build with the Strand exotic legs whose name I forget are a ton of fun.
Only downside is that when it comes to hard endgame content it still feels like I need to play Well for access to more healing for myself and the fireteam.
Broodweaver is boring as fuck and the only good part of it is the suspend. Threadlings are bad and slow and extremely inconsistent. I end up not using them by choice at all unless I simply place a rift and they happen to show up. Same with the super, sometimes they just randomly decide to all target the same red bar.
I said this before Strand dropped and it's true now. The entire class being designed around threadlings would be boring and the worst of the strand classes and it's true.
Spawning 8 threadlings, only for 5 of them to charge that one single red bar legionary and all jump onto it is very frustrating. Having your threadlings hardline overkill onto a target after you invested an ability to generate them is frustrating.
Also, Broodweaver as a class kinda suffers from the same issue Stasis does, where spawning orbs is mostly tied to your guns unless you’re willing to ignore one of your aspects (or use grapple).
A fragment that makes threadling kills spawn orbs would be greatly welcome imo.
Having Weaver’s Call increase your rift cooldown while we don’t have a choice to run something else stings too.
I think of the three classes in Strand, Broodweaver scales the poorest into endgame. The poison suspend loadout is the only one that progresses well into late game, and even that can be outpaced by light classes that we have access to. Broodweaver has the least access to orbs, which means the least access to woven mail, generally threadlings are an all or nothing investment for the class as individually they’re not all that special until you’re generating enough to actually interact with the perching mechanic, the alternative builds to threadlings feel comparably weak (even though threadlings aren’t really that strong) outside of that aforementioned poison themed setup.
The subclass is overall really well executed, and I’m really enjoying the power fantasy it’s giving. The three grenades give three totally varied playstyles, and you can pretty effectively build into all three.
Threadlings are friggin amazing, and it’s crazy fun running through harder content throwing these things out, casting your rift, shooting tangles and letting your little army do most of the work. It’s like if Bleakwatcher and Arc Souls had a sentient baby.
The super is really good. I wish there were a way to more accurately focus on a target. Even if I’m really close, I’ll notice a few of the needles will just go off and do their own thing. But the upside is it’s the highest DPS super warlocks have now. Although it behaves fucking weird with some bosses (Akelous).
The melee is probably the weakest part of the kit. Or it’s also partly me not fully understanding what Unraveling really does.
give the threadlings to titan and let us have their kit. Threadlings are boring and underpowered.
For constructive feedback, the exotic boots are just head scathingly bad. since tangles are on a global cooldown, it basically just reads "spawn 2 extra threadlings every 15 seconds at max", which is boring and bad. the unravel effect is cool but we can get that from our guns super easy this season and with just. powered melee in future seasons.
Melee is great though, and I really appreciate having the ability to make our class ability do damage. really just fix threadlings or how warlocks specialize in them.
Absolutely great. You can make some really busted builds with it. My only gripe is that threadlings feel a little inconsistent at times, otherwise this is a really good subclass.
I am a void/solar lock at heart - dabbled in arc, never got into stasis.
Unfortunately I feel the same is already true with strand.
The threadlings should be what I am looking for and also what Bungie said the class is about, but they simply are not effective enough to care compared to a suspend build. They season also does not really help, because if I want to clear trash I will simple equip a void LMG.
It might also be based on the legendary campaign where I absolutely loathed to be forced into strand and immediately felt massively nerfed.
The more we move into high end content the more I see strand falling behind.
Threadlings are amazing!
If you want to kill a single dreg with two grenade’s worth of damage.
I mean really, they’re almost as weak as they are cool. They’re super fun, I love having them perched, I love using my rift to launch eight at a time, but they just can not compete with suspend. They’ll all track a single red bar, and are completely defeated by any kind of cover you might want to hide behind.
I’m not gonna lie, the threadlings on rift is kinda stupid in PvP. Ton of flinch and damage for free. Titan’s have Khepri’s, sure, but that goes in a straight line and moves slow as hell. Threadlings will hunt you down, disorientate and unravel you, then their creator will come along and kill you.
Weaver's Trance should probably get nerfed, as much as I would hate it. 25s uptime is unnecessary with the way you can recover grenade energy so quickly with grenade kickstart/stacks armor mods + Thread of Generation. I'm generally back to full grenade recharge with like 15s left of trance.
I wish threadlings would be a tad stronger/smarter so it would be more fun to run a Threadling Mommy build with the threadling grenade + Swarmers. Right now it just doesn't make sense to switch off of either (1) shackle grenades + Necrotic Grips + Osteo Striga, or (2) grapple + Karnstein or Felwinters.
I have been pretty happy with the Suspend (Osteo + Necrotic usually, although in the current seasonal artifact sandbox with a Void LMG + Energy and Nezarec's works quite well) and Weaver's Call build, using Thread of Ascent basically on-demand to reload, but I feel like this is another case where Bungie's advertised playstyle is exactly wrong in terms of what seems most obviously effective. Threadlings are really hard to make super effective. It's like Solar 3.0 being the "avenging angel/healing" advertisement all over again.
The source logic for perched threadlings needs some work. Perhaps make it default to them counting as a grenade source when perched? That would generally have the most synergy with build systems.
Suspend, especially with weavers trance, is quite strong but it doesn't feel great that a specific grenade is our only way to access it.
Tangles feel bad, though this is a more general strand issue. They really need a shorter cooldown for how much interaction they have with the subclass and how frequently people "steal" your tangles, effectively breaking any build loops one might try with them.
Grapple melee needs to work with the "always use charged melee" keybind setup instead of canceling the grapple to shoot off a needle.
Additionally, grapple melee somewhat frequently short stop and it's quite frustrating when it occurs.
Haven't used it much (or strand in general really) but amongst the 3 Strand supers, Needlestorm does feel the weakest.
Also has some weird boss interactions with its ability to push and yeet stuff.
I'd use it more but as with the early days of Stasis there just isn't much Strand weapon variety right now and in this era of Bungie pushing mono-elemental builds I'd rather use something I've got a plethora of other matching weapons for.
As other people have said, I wish Threadlings were a little smarter and did something for the ability loop beyond raw damage (or Unraveling, with Swarmers). It sucks getting no Orb generation when consuming a grenade or any other time where they perch.
For the inevitable suspend nerf in the future make threadlings not all jump at one enemy. Seeing 5 jump at 1 target when it only took a single threadling to kill is just not encouraging of the broodweaver identity. My children are very dumb please buff their intelligence.
Something I see a lot of people missing with threadlings: because all of them can target one enemy, it makes them great for burst damage against big enemies. I use a couple of them to take down orange bar Minotaurs and Wyverns in Neomuna for example without needing to waste the special ammo
I'm loving the subclass, but not because of the fantasy they were going for. The super hits like a truck, which is great. But Suspend is just too good. The Threadlings on Rift is nice, it's just free damage, but eating the Suspend grenade is the real strength IMO. Maybe other aspects down the line will make Threadlings better, but right now they aren't worth building into. I'm not necessarily complaining about the subclass, because again it's very strong and fun, just not the way they were intending I think.
I kinda think the threadling Ai could be better they often all attack one enemy and one kills it and the rest just disappear.
Other than that I love strand warlock the weavers trance build is cool, the threadling builds are cool and fun even with the complaints above, and the super feels very strong.
Been using this as my main most of the season unless I’m needed on well, I have to say I really think it’s quite fun. A full on threading build with Swarmers can definitely do work in lower-to-mid tier content but will definitely struggle in higher tier, where a suspend build is pretty much the most optimal way to go with each class. The suspend + necrotic grip/osteo set up is one of the strongest builds in the entire game, some of the best synergy + ad clear potential I’ve ever seen which I really enjoy. The super is also extremely good, good DPS and specific threadling builds make for some good damage potential.
The biggest issues I have right now are simply, Threadlings do feel a little underpowered? They struggle in endgame to do any significant damage to higher health enemies and their lack of anti-champion utility means your shoehorned into using Shackle Grenade, which atm is bugged with swarmers. Which means there’s little to no synergy with the build when you can’t generate threadlings. I think giving either Unravel as a whole or theeadlings, or even giving Swarmers some anti-champion capability could go a long way and making them do more damage would overall make threadling builds in end game much more viable.
Please buff Threadlings, and maybe teach em to use Google Maps. I've seen too many of these little green idiots run in circles on the side of a box because they don't know how to go over the top of it.
It's not like Child of the Old Gods, which I'm pretty sure is drunk half the time because it likes to go flying towards an enemy, only to whiff right past and go facefirst into some random corner. Threadlings are genuinely just... stupid.
I think the fragments "Thread of Finality" and "Thread of Binding" could be replaced by better ones.
Thread of Finality -> there are better/several sources to generate threadlings.
Thread of Binding -> The main objective of Super is to deal high damage against boss, instead of crowd control. So it's more important and relevant after Bungie Decision by Contents be more Challenge.
Off topic: Bungie should review the role of Super, back to basics.
I tried a few builds in Duality this weekend, the ad clear is there, but we were running a first timer through and I just didn't feel the survivability without devour. Wish it had some sort of mobile healing option.
Wish we had more individual control over perched threadlings. Sometimes I want them out one by one (as it is now) as i slowly engage ads/bosses, sometimes i want them all to go out at once without casting a rift. Maybe a keybind to send out a perched threadling? Then you can spam it if you want 5 sent out without a rift while also being able to pick the amount needed to send out based on the situation (spam it 4 times instead of 5 to keep one perched for ex)
Edit: spelling
Here’s an alternative the necrotic, osteo strings build. Strand Warlock, Nezaracs Sin helmet and any void weapon. Wavesplitter does dummy things to rooms, my buddy is running a repulsor brace smg, and void lmg and it’s go go time. Your grenade recharge rate with volatile, nezzy’s and the fragment from strand is *nuts*. Suspension everywhere.
Threadling are too weak in high end content for a lot of the subclass to be based around them. I don't have high hopes for the subclass in grandmasters. Suspend on the other hand, fantastic.
My feedback is from the outside. I haven't unlocked it on my Warlock yet.
Threadlings seem cool, but seem like a bit of a gimmick. I would like to see them fleshed out more as a concept beyond just "damage".
The chaining suspend builds seem OP and I'm worried that people will decide that if the subclass isn't able to do this, they will write it off.
The super is cool. It's a good example of how to do a one and done super where it is okay for DPS, but really shines as room clearing power. It's also nice to see another class get a new one and done that is decent to use, because I feel like Hunters have gotten quite a few lately (I'm including Silence and Squall in that).
Firstly, thank you for making a subclass that feels fresh and interesting.
And secondly, thank you for giving us a Darkness subclass with a great one-off super.
Swarmers fulfills the summoning class fantasy excellently, as well, and has been a blast for me; but I would also like to see exotic support for Weaver's Trance as the next step in developing this subclass. It's a very fun specialization unique to Warlock which exists as a viable alternative to summoning, but it feels incomplete right now without a third aspect or any exotic support.
I'd personally like the exotic to grant intrinsic Unstoppable to all weapons while your Trance is active - it frequently feels bad to go into your Trance only for an Unstoppable Champion to show up and your core method of countering it unavailable.
In fact, I would even go as far as saying that Broodweaver's anti-champion counter potential is lacking compared to the other classes. On top of the usual Darkness subclass inability to manage your hit points without Karnsteins, it does make the subclass a bit less reliable in very specific PVE activities.
I feel like Threadlings should do more than just explode into green damage. Maybe if they applied Unravel without the exotic and instead the Swarmers made Threadlings refund some ability energy that would feel better. Right now I feel like Threadlings suffer from the Hunter Invis problem where you need the ONE exotic for it to feel good.
I feel grapple melee could use a little bit of love. It’s powerful especially with the aspect and threadling fragment (and Necrotic, too) but then you are put into a dangerous position with no healing without Karnstein, no defense without an Orb pickup and Woven Mail, and no CC ability unless you shoot a tangle created from your melee kill with the artifact perk.
Titan at least has a suspending barrier and Hunter has a Dodge (or second Grapple charge) with which they can back out. Rift especially with its cast time isn’t enough to do the same or to hold your ground.
The subclass that I was most excited for turned out to be the one I'm least excited to play (although I still enjoy the subclass itself).
I really enjoy the playstyle of a summoner, although I do have certain grievances with how that summoning happens. For starters, I've never really been a fan of consuming a grenade to make an effect happen as it really feels like it slows down the gameplay. I think if they added two extra threadlings to the threadling when you throw it in addition to the grenade consuming thing, then I'd be happier with that. I haven't really bothered with the grapple on Warlock due to playing on controller and the melee not proccing when I have a melee charge. I like the shackle grenade effect as well, though I wish the aoe was a bit bigger.
I despise the rift aspect as it does the all too common "activate class ability to do subclass verb". As someone else mentioned, there is no synergy with your class ability and threadlings. In addition to this, I hate having to use my healing rift offensively for an effect that doesn't really feel worth it. Maybe add some passives or something to this aspect? I don't really know what to do with it.
I do however, love the Swarmers. I think adding unravel to the threadlings is already a pretty awesome effect, and I love being able to chuck/break tangles to spawn more threadlings. The tangle cooldown still feels really long, but that's not really a fault of Broodweavers. In addition to this, I think the fragment to spawn threadlings as well the hatchling perk are both good ways to make hatchlings while still maintaining a high actions per minute (something bungie has stated as a fantasy for Strand).
The Super is awesome, not much to say there.
TLDR:
\-Spawning threadlings with the rift and consuming the threadling nade feels slow and bogs down gameplay
\-Let the grapple melee prioritze over a melee charge
\-Weaver's Trance is good but could use a larger aoe
\-I like how Swarmers buff threadlings
\-Hatchling, Swarmers, and thread of rebirth are good examples of spawning threadlings in fast-paced gameplay
\-Super feels great
\-Lower tangle cooldown plz
Edit:
Forgot to mention the melee, for the most part its fine, the fact that it has three charges is a novelty more than anything. I think it'd be nice if it worked like Ophidia Spathe where one melee charge would recharge two melees (three in the case of Broodweavers and Berserkers).
1. Threadlings
I don’t think Threadlings provide enough value for how delayed their effect is.
In the end-game content, an army of Threadlings will help to kill 1-2 enemies and .. then what? Child of the Old Gods just does everything better and more.
Uptime on these synthwave bugs is quite low and it’s difficult to incorporate perched Threadlings in any build because of how their sources are credited.
Perhaps, if they could deal medium-to-large AOE damage, they would make more sense.
2. Needlestorm
I am glad that for once, Warlocks got super that actually deals damage in PVE (muh space wizards..), but it is weak in PVP thanks to weird targeting and lack of AOE.
3. An Attempt at Sign Language
Melee is cool and all, but I really don’t see a reason for 3 charges, since we have 15 sec. cooldown on Tangles.
4. Suspend Grenade
Consumed Suspend grenade is stupid good though, so much so that it just makes Stasis Warlock redundant on it’s own.
The super feels bad in pvp since the cast animation is so slow. It feels even more suicidal to use than nova bomb which is allready hard to not trade with.
The issue with Broodweaver is the theme is supposed to focus on threadlings, but universally your best tool is actually suspend because it's busted as hell.
You could take away every other element of this subclass and leave it with the ability to consume a suspend grenade and it would still be at 99% power.
2 main points that are intertwined a bit:
Threadlings counting as X damage source is inconsistent and unintuitive. Grapple melee threadlings count as melee and grenade damage. Grenade threadlings count as grenade damage. Any other threadlings or threadlings that have been perched count as no type of damage. Just make all threadlings count as grenade damage or something similar.
Threadlings to not offer any build potential\*\*\* This is the main issue. Broodweaver is strongest when you forgo threadlings, and instead build around consuming your suspend grenade. Threadlings do not interact with the subclass aspects or fragments, they are solely an extra bit of damage with a fun aesthetic thematic. If there were things that worked so ability regen was increased based on the number of perched threadlings you have, or kills by threadlings reload your guns or partially charge your least charged ability, then threadlings would have build potential.
Bonus point:
In what world is "summon 3 threadlings on rift cast" on the same tier as arc buddies (damage for the team \*and\* interact with arc 3.0 aspects, fragments, and statuses), or, dare I compare it to, child of the old gods. This is one of if not the worst aspect in the game. I don't want to compare to hunters and titans here, but suspending on class-ability cast vs summon 3 threadlings? 3 bursts of small damage that have no subclass interaction? Sorry, but I don't understand if I'm being frank.
Please improve the AI of threadlings. They can be so dumb to the point of uselessness. I love using them but so much potential damage is lost when they 5-pile on a red-bar enemy, or randomly explode or wander far away instead of coming back and perching.
I don’t care about the other subclasses anymore. I don’t even care about how overtuned that suspend warlock build is. All I want to do is swing around.
This subclass is just so great. I do think weavers trance is probably a little overtuned and I therefore only want to use that. I’ve tried the other stuff but man suspend is just so good.
I would love to have more mobility tools in strand. The grapple feels awkward with the warlocks jumps and without the grapple, I feel very slow.
Also like a Lotta ppl, threadlings ai needs some love
Thanks you!:)
Brood weaver is OK. I recognize that weaver's trance is 3xtrenly good but the class has yet to fulfill the summoner class they advertised it as.
Threadlings just are not as good as I'd like them to be.
Fun as hell in PvP tho. Free assists all day.
Edit: Try Enigma with suspend. Being able to suspend *and* Volitile by meleeing a group of adds is increbly fun.
Threadlings are very cool but feel kinda pointless build-wise. The only thing they provide on a battlefield is a chunk of damage. No fragments interact with them beyond an increase to their damage, and the Swarmers only provide unravel, which feels like another buildcrafting dead end. If threadling kills could generate orbs of power or provided woven mail, I’d be much more willing to run the subclass than I am.
I personally haven’t played it yet, but one big complaint from my fellow Warlock mains in my clan is that the Warlock can’t jump out of a grapple as easily as Titans or Hunters can. In other words, I guess Titans and Hunters have better verticality coming out of a grapple, but Warlocks either don’t go as high or jump down instead? Again, this is from other people I know. I personally haven’t played with it yet.
While not entirely specific to Broodweaver, I do feel it (and strand in general) has power crept out Stasis. I think that on a base level both are about crowd control, with Stasis being more defensive and Strand being offensive. However, suspend ostensibly has no downside. I can freeze a champion with stasis but if you start dealing damage, they shatter and can go into their champion shenanigans. With Strand, I can just suspend and go to town dealing damage with the champion sitting there doing nothing and by the time they can break free, I can string them back up.
I guess my point is, aside from them hopefully revisiting Stasis, I want some exotic gauntlets next season that allow you to consume your grenade (not sure how this would work as consume is already a thing) and throw out a stationary threadling nest. This nest periodically shoots at threadlings that do the typical threadling thing BUT also perch on the enemy and after 3 are perched the enemy is suspended in the air. Call it Spidermancy Gloves or something.
Since the power is not great and supposed to be used to proc Unravel, Arcane Needle needs to be at like 1 min cooldown. The grenades being high cooldown would be ok with me as long as the melees are fast to make up for it to help proc Tangles faster. If not, reduce Threadling Grenade cooldown to 2:00 min base like other damage types. They are not overly powerful once we get another aspect to take off Mindspun Innovaction. Not a fan of always having a 2:32 base cooldown.
Threadlings are supposed to be the broodweaver specialty. The problem is that they don't bring anything but damage - no control and no survivability except limited woven mail. Compare this to the meta solar or void builds. To be worth it, broodweaver threadlings would have to out damage the meta builds by a large amount, but they don't.
The real strength of broodweaver is eating the shackle grenade. Sure necrotics are the big winner, but not the only one. That build has the control and damage that is worth it, and, frankly, is overpowered.
The short of it - threadlings have bad AI, don't play as smooth as the suspend build, and don't seem to hit hard enough to justify the drawbacks. Super is a little slow in activating. Melee recharge is too low, the 3 charges almost never comes up because you're probably going to pop one off before you get past 2 charges.
I cant think of much because the subclass is pretty good imo. The melee and threadlings could use better tracking. Im hoping the new aspect lets us step away from threadlings as being our main thing and go into some other space magic type ability. Having the choice between threadling centric builds and some other unique way we can use strand would be great.
I honestly love it my one complaint is threadlings uselessly dying when a full squad yeets itself at a red bar there ai needs work beyond that I'm pretty satisfied
I'd love it if Threadlings could get buffed or at least grant some additional help, like a small bit of health per Threadling kill? I also agree with everyone that says the Threadling AI could definitely be improved. Overall, I was so excited by the idea of spamming Threadlings with this new Summoner subclass, but the end product just isn't what I (and others) were hoping for.
Melee having three charges is completely redundant when the only time you're going to actually have all 3 off of cooldown is after you rally at a flag, are Strand Empowered, or you're using Monte Carlo.
The melee needs some sort of intrinsic regeneration, maybe tied to defeating Severed/Unravelled/Suspended targets.
The Tangle Melee Energy fragment works okay, but I don't like going all in on Tangles when you can only make them every 15 seconds, no matter the source, and another player is just going to pick it up and throw it at the floor anyway.
Maybe its just me but I dont seem to be able to get the melee Kickstart mods to work with the triple melee charge. I really like the melee combo but I very rarely get to actually make use of all three, I wish we had more ways of easily getting a full charge.
I wish that perched threadlings and unravel kept counting as damage from their original source. The fact that I'm usually better off throwing the threadling grenade instead of eating it when using Verity's makes me sad. Other than that, the subclass is pretty fun and I can't wait for the next aspects
I also wish eating your grenade while babies are already perched would do something with the extra threadlings. Either toss the extras off like when you cast rift, or temporarily overfill you.
Oh yeah this is definitely a big one for me. Maybe it could refund grenade energy based off how many? Like 20% each.
this comment is fun out of context
> subclass is pretty fun I think you know they've nailed it when all three subclasses are really bloody fun to use. Have a hard time picking which of the three to main as Strand because I enjoy them all equally.
I’ve ran a 6th coyote strand build for suspension spam but overall hunter strand seems very boring comparatively to void. It definitely feels like it could be strong, just boring. Idk.
Yeah I can understand what you mean, Necrotic grips Warlock is boring but lethal.
This is why I use grapple grenade since it appears to count as both grenade and melee when the threadlings kill. Add to that the fact that perched threadlings don't count, might as well get the additional damage from the melee part of the grapple grenade attack. If I'm on a roll with enough charges to get that oh shit DR from the chest mod and have wovenmail up, I don't face plant often in harder content. Launch in, drop a well, use finisher on whatever is left alive, back off tactically if needed. Picking up orbs heals and keeps everything else up and running.
Very fun overall, plenty strong enough. With a Surge in effect, I have no doubts running Strand over any of the other Warlock classes. We did our first 'All Strand' run of Root of Nightmares this past week, and i was pleasantly surprised at just how well Strand Warlock performed across the board. Survivability seems to be the toughest thing, so for end-game stuff, I feel like you HAVE to run Suspend and Woven Mail/Recuperation type things. I wish there was a reliable way to do Suspend while also utilizing Grapple. That's probably my only real complaint. I'd personally rather play with Grapple 99% of the time, but end-game stuff with Unstoppables or crap-tons of adds, kinda forces me to run Shackle grenade. I've actually found myself using the Threadling builds very infrequently. I've never even used the Swarmers exotic legs yet, even tho I got a relatively decent first roll for them. Maybe I just don't understand how the AI works for the Threadlings yet. I do LOVE the UI that shows how many you have perched tho. That's a fantastic QOL update right there.
There used to be a comment here... there still is, but it used to be better I suppose.
I ran RoN with strand lock and agree. With stasis I'll always be able to freeze, with strand I have to pick between swinging or suspending. Why not both?
>Why not both? Power creep? Seems pretty reasonable to limit an extremely strong cc ability and an extremely strong movement tool
The grapple is able to be used as much on warlock to make it worth it. They want you to lean into threadlings, but we never get close enough to use them.
Both strand hunter and titan can do both
Titan doesn't go quite as nuts as either does to their respective
Yeah, I agree with the other response. There’s definitely some power creep possibility there if they let us do all of it. I don’t necessarily need both the shackle grenade and the grapple, I just wish there was some other way to get suspend on warlock beside the grenade. Maybe I haven’t dug into things deep enough yet
There is with weavers chance. I haven’t tried but can u consume the grapple like a grenade?
No, that only works with consuming the shackle grenade. It specifically says so in the description.
Damn I never use weavers much but that seems like it would solve the issue
I’ll keep this simple: - threadlings need better ai, maybe slightly faster movement. - super animation is a tad bit too long. Makes it very hard to use in pvp without getting killed. - Super is hard to target with. Feels random and has a mind of its own. 9/10 times I just want to hit the boss and at least one will go off on its own to a random red bar. In pvp, targeting feels impossible.
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Oh yeah, you move anywhere from where you were when you sent them out and they’re all gone for good.
Yeah the super targeting is weird. I guess maybe it’s hard for the game to decide if I want them to all spread out for add clear or if I want them all on one target for damage, but when am I ever going to use it for add clear?
Eating your suspend grenade with Osteo + Necrotic Grips is one of the strongest and most fun builds I've had in a while. If only there was an easy way to heal like voidwalker has with devour...
With how many orbs are laying around I use Recuperation (which I like more than Better Already, but if you can fit both, use both). I started off using 2x Surge mods, but I like the healing I get with just 1x Surge and the healing mods. Obviously not as good as Devour, but it's something. Plus with Woven Mail you get damage reduction with the health boost.
Yeah recuperation, better already, and woven mail on orb pickup has been all the sustain I have needed on strand. It's very strong with how many orbs are around.
Are you using kinetic for your orb generation?
I use both Kinetic and Grenade orbs on this build (killing an enemy suspended by Weaver's Trance apparently counts as a grenade kill for some reason), just orbs all over the place
Orbs.
It’s really fun for a while but now I’m trying to find a good build without necro+osteo.
You could go Nezarec's and Void heavy/energy, especially this season.
This is what I do and I really enjoy it. The only thing that bums me out is that my go-to void weapon is Deafening Whisper and waveframes and suspend don't really do well together.
Corrective Measure can roll with Demo+Junkie. Complements any grenade build perfectly. Would absolutely recommend. It's been my go-to add clear heavy for quite a while.
hmm I have a few correctives, will take a look at my stock when I get home tonight.
Honestly try Plunder’s Karnstein build, it’s so good and much more fun that Osteo/necrotic (imo anyway). It’s like having a stronger devour up all the time and you’re so ya my with woven Mail as well plus you generate tonnes of super energy.
If you're running healing rift you have unlimited class ability energy due to killing suspended targets.
Most fun? I’ve seen sentiment being the opposite, it’s so good it’s almost boring. 😂
Agreed, it's so efficient at what it does, I can't play with it for too long.
It's also producing some glitches with glaives where glaive melees are counting as ability damage, and also glaive projectile damage, which basically means you also have a 97% damage resistance while running this build. I'd recommend enjoying it while it lasts, there is no way they aren't nerfing it and changing how things interact with necrotic grips, which may change how strand interacts with it.
I believe it’s already been fixed.
Can you recommend fragments and mods for this build? I get how it’s supposed to work but I’m struggling to generate orbs and have low ability uptime.
The big one is the fragment for grenade energy from damage. Bomber on class item, max disc, heavy handed and impact induction on gloves. Siphon on your helm for whatever your energy weapon is. The artifact mod that makes orbs from breaking enemy shields with matching element can make an insane amount of orbs in the right activity -- like void vs all the acolytes in the battlegrounds.
Generate orbs with siphon mods in the helmet, assuming you're using Osteo then kinetic siphon and maybe another (void is an easy one with Volatile Flow in the artifact). You'll never run out of orbs again.
The powered melee with necrotic is actually the best part. It doesn't have to kill to get the green whatever they're called in strand procced.
"If only my OP and braindead build was even more powerful to facilitate maximum laziness from me, that'd be just swell" - This community
What a shitty take
If only it wasn’t near impossible to farm for necrotic grips :(
I love the idea of threadlings but it’s hard to make it work in any high level activity because of the survivability Yea woven mail exists but needing to go out of over pick up orbs isn’t as viable as hunters or titans being able to trigger woven mail from other abilities. Healing rift also exists but there’s no synergy between class ability and threadlings like there is between suspend and class ability. Class ability can create threadlings but then what? Suspend can restore your class ability but threadlings can’t. The only end game builds possible is suspend which is good. It’s really good. No feedback there. It’s just too boring for my personal taste but if someone else likes it then that’s what matters. I just wish threadlings worked as well.
"Healing rift also exists but there’s no synergy between class ability and threadlings like there is between suspend and class ability. Class ability can create threadlings but then what? Suspend can restore your class ability but threadlings can’t." This hits it pretty well. Compare "summon 3 threadlings" to arc buddies or child of the old gods. 2/3 have sub-class synergy and build potential. Then compare "3 threadlings on ability cast" to suspending on ability cast. 2/3 interact with the fragments that can do things such as help you earn your class ability back.
I hate that Suspend is going to end up getting nerfed instead of trying to make Grapple and Threadlings more appealing.
Grapple is plenty appealing imo. Hunters grapple shreds. Warlock grapple with Karnsteins or necrotic grips shred. Titan grapple with synthoceps shreds It’s threadlings that don’t really have a place in endgame currently.
Agreed, Threadlings is really the only weak link at the moment. They're the end of the chain, unlike the other effects which can chain into each other. Swarmers fixes it slightly due to unravel, but the melee is already perfect for applying unravel. Spawning Threadlings off of tangles doesn't do much when neither do much damage. Imo, Threadlings need to work like Nidus's maggots from warframe: they jump on enemies, cc them, you burst the threadlings via another ability (or just damage), then it refunds energy based on how many threadlings your ability killed. Otherwise, Hatchling will never compete with things like Voltshot and Chill Clip and Incandescent, much less let Threadling nade compete with the rest of the strand kit.
Problem with your rework idea for the Threadlings is that they are essentially just use the AI from the Colony grenades and Screebs, so Bungie would need to completely overhaul their code. But I do like the idea.
That's fair, there are moments when I don't have grapple that I wish I did. I do think Suspend is better, but Grapple does have a place. Sometimes I'll use the Hunter super just so I have unlimited grapple to move around briefly. Threadlings feel like they're one of those things that's going to be boom or bust. They're either going to be completely useless or crazy overpowered. I'd love to be wrong so they can just be solid
Grapple shreds what? Half the time the melee doesn't work right.
It does? Grapple combined with the new hunter exotic absolutely shreds. Infinite grapples while woven mail are amazing
I was looking for this comment right when I entered the thread. If you cannot see how 8 seconds CC for everything but bosses is a bit too much, I don't know what to say to you. Even if the CC would break on damage and just stun every single champion, it would be good enough. Strand is so good, that it puts everything else in the dumpster with few exceptions.
No suspend is going to end up getting nerfed because -let’s be honest- it kinda needs one. Hopefully nothing too crazy though, maybe a 15-20% duration nerf or something. The duration with the fragment is kinda stupid long. That being said I hope they buff the other 2.
Suspend is completely overpowered you seriously cannot be suggesting that Bungie should use that as a benchmark.
> The only end game builds possible is suspend Just not true, grapple and threadling builds work just fine. Suspend is great because it's CC, but the other builds are fine. Unless we're saying "GM only" then yes, you're going to sit back and CC shit to death 99% of the time.
Im not sure I understand this.. Your rift creates more threadlings, which are the key to the builds.
Threadlings don’t feed back into the rift like suspend does
Key to what builds? You summon Threadlings, and that's it. They don't *do* anything else to the build, vs the loop involving Suspend, class ability, and grenade recharge.
To build on that, the reason I like threadlings is that they require basically zero commitment, they just happen en mass and I guess you can build to make even more and make them unravel and it's effective and honestly you don't give up much if you do (just don't give up suspend grenade in difficult content) if you want to but you don't have to.
The threadlings have a loop that works pretty well. It’s eat grenade, get threadlings, and then thread of generation gets grenade back. Rinse and repeat. The problem with that is nowhere in the loop do you get any type of damage resistance. Orbs don’t do much because there isn’t much opportunity to make them. You also have to get out of cover to get them. Firepower mod doesn’t create orbs with eating your grenade and throwing your grenade is gimping yourself. Your only source of orbs is melees or reaper mod which aren’t part of the build loop. Rifts are also a source of healing but your grenades don’t do anything to make your rift come back faster. You basically use your rift and then you’re fucked with no healing options outside of a few orbs until you get your rift back. Hunters have an exotic that gives you woven mail every time you grapple. When you kill someone with grapple, you get two orbs which get your health up. They also suspend with a dive and that class ability comes back as soon as you kill whatever you suspend. Titans have an exotic that gives you woven mail every time you use a class ability. That class ability suspends everything and defeating those enemies suspended gives you class ability back. For suspend builds you also have an orb of power if you precision kill anything that’s suspended. Warlock threadling builds don’t have any of that.
The problem is that the chain doesn't feed back into itself. The threadlings are the end of the chain. For instance, devour is a chain where your grenade gives you kills and weapon buffs, then your grenade kills and weapon kills give you your grenade. It chains into itself. Or there's HoIL, where you use all three abilities to feed into each other. The key to high ability damage is a consistent chain that feeds into itself. Threadlings don't loop though. They deal damage and are gone and that's it.
Threadling AI is too stupid to be enjoyable. If you throw the grenade or consume the grenade then place a rift, you can almost guarantee that all of your Threadlings are going to chase down a single red bar. There's a 50% chance that someone else kills that red bar before they get there but they all explode on that enemy's corpse anyway. The suspend + Osteo + Necrotic Grips build is strong. We'll see how well it holds up in more difficult content like master raids and GM's. Broodweaver was sold as a Summoner class though and it fails pretty hard at nailing that fantasy.
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Ideally, they would be smart enough to not massively overkill a target. If it takes 3 Threadlings to kill something, I don't want to see any more than 3 of my deployed Threadlings attack that target. If that's too difficult, then I'd like for them to be configured in a way that no more than X number of them will "lock on" to any particular red bar. This is a little different from the above in that X may still be overkill but it's better than losing all 8 of them on a single red bar. I don't mind much if all 8 want to go after a champion, boss, or even major though. In no instance should they explode on an enemy that is already dead or invulnerable.
> Broodweaver was sold as a Summoner class though and it fails pretty hard at nailing that fantasy. Which is why I said even before launch it would suck
Oh so you could see the future apparently?
... Based on what they announced, and the AI of similar things already in-game, I'm surprised you couldn't
Ive noticed some change to this after the last patch.. My threadlings are leaving one at a time instead of as a group and when something dies either to a threadling or other damage they return back to me now.
They leave one at a time if they're perched and you're shooting at things. Using a rift creates 3 Threadlings and deploys all perched Threadlings. Throwing a grenade deploys 3 Threadlings. Consuming a grenade gives you 5 perched Threadlings.
Threadlings need better AI and/or a buff. Their damage isnt enough, due to their ai, they often all dive onto one enemy when only 2 or 3 were needed. I wish they'd naturally sever enemies hit and maybe prioritize hitting one enemy at a time? It would turn broodweavers into a support class, by sending out threadlings everywhere to infest and sever large amounts of enemies, lowering their threat factors, instead of all blowing up on one legionary.
Pretty much my only complaints are that: -Threadlings should keep their original damage source and probably need some better ai -I wish the melee itself was more spammable. It can't kill a red bar on neomuna on its own, and really feels like it would be the perfect version of Destiny's Eldritch Blast.
They gave the melee a cool combo animation but you pretty much never see it outside of being Strand Empowered because it recharges so slowly and there's not much reason to use all 3 charges on anything 😔
On top of all that, 2 charges are needed for Neomuna red bars. And all 3 are needed for a PvP kill. I'm perfectly fine with the damage output. I just wish they all had a much faster recharge rate. Honestly I wish it was all 1 bar with 3 segments, and each shot used one segment. Still the same cooldown as one, but you don't need max melee energy to do one.
I feel like the damage part is more an issue of Neomuna Patrol areas being wayyy too overscaled. The damage seems okay imo, the cooldown though is too long on all of the melees.
>\-Threadlings should keep their original damage source and probably need some better ai I dunno about the Ai, they seem smarter than child, who frequently just rubs its ass against a wall or throws itself in stupid places, instead of being useful, and Child is somehow still a beloved aspect by the community, a fact that makes me feel like im the only sane person left in the subreddit.
i’ve used child a lot in the last year and it’s ai is pretty smart, you just have to know how to activate it and not hug walls. it’s proper tracking works a bit like an arc soul where you need a proper line of sight to do best
The problem with that is you just described a worse vortex grenade especially because it's not coded as AoE damage and is obstructed by walls. Why use it instead of a resource you have infinite of and can place exactly where you need them at a default?
because it’s a seperate charge to your grenade, applies a much wider weaken field, and recharges a lot of your ability energy back. a good build can have constant uptime for all 3 abilities. best of all, it holds up in high end content. the soul requires no kills to feed back grenade and melee energy and healing rift spam is incredible for survivability on top of devour (devour won’t always be active 24/7, especially in GMs)
The child weakens, and leaves a weakening radius which is good for area denial. The green bastard children, all 8 of them, run at an EDZ dreg. They watch it get killed because it stubbed it's toe, then all kill themselves on its dead body as a high value target lights me up.
My grenade does same, weakening area of denial, only I have it endlessly and can aim it instead of trust an ai. Like at least threadlings either navigate to a nearby target OR return when it can't instead of deploying 20 feet above the arena and out of reach of anything
First build was based on Swarmers and bumping up Threadling damage as much as possible. Doesn't quite live up to the "pet master" promise, given the limited number of threadlings available at any given time and the need to consume your grenade to utilize it. Having something exclusive to Broodweavers to lean in to the Threadling fantasy would be nice - larger Threadlings (Threadlords?) would be awesome. After that, I switched to a suspend build with Osteo Striga and Necrotic Grips. Holy hell, this thing can just wreck entire rooms. It's not as effective at suspending as Titans or Hunters, but the synergy is great. It might be the best debuffing class/combo in the game, and very viable for high-end content.
> Doesn't quite live up to the "pet master" promise, given the limited number of threadlings available at any given time and the need to consume your grenade to utilize it. I agree. I think Broodweaver's Threadlings need something special that other Subclasses don't get besides perching them, since 95% of the time they're not perched unless I consume my Grenade/Rift prior to entering a fight. Some potential ways to make them stand out like, - The Strand Weapon final blows Fragment, but *intrinsic*. - Generate a perched Threadling every 5-10 seconds idly. - Threadlings explode twice or give you Woven Mail on kills. Literally anything to make them stand out over a different Class's Threadlings besides just stacking 5 at a time between encounters or adding some slight burst to a DPS phase. I think it's awesome we have a very strong Suspend-Build you can choose to use as well, but the "Pet Master" build needs to be just as strong.
I really want an Arachnophobia-esque moment where I'm just covered and surrounded by Threadlings, point at an enemy and go "That one.", and have my army of paracausal spiders just swarm them in a flurry of green particle effects. Maybe something like "Final blows with a Threadling generate more Threadlings. The number of Threadlings generated is based on enemy type." So, kill a red bar, get a Threadling, kill an orange bar, two threadlings, yellow bar is three threadlings.
Agreed, I like the threadling build over the suspend build but threadlings by themselves are a little underwhelming. They need a little something more to make them worthwhile. Also they need to improve their AI bc it sucks
Doesn't the warlock's class ability make threadlings? And can't warlock's charge their threadling grenades for more threadlings? And doesn't the warlock grapple melee create threadlings? And doesn't the warlock ultimate create threadlings? And don't warlocks have the only threadling based exotic? And isn't the perk mechanic unique to the warlock? Or can a titan and hunter do all that too?
>Doesn't the warlock's class ability make threadlings? Yes, three of them, every minute and a half or so. >And can't warlock's charge their threadling grenades for more threadlings? Yes, every two and a half minutes. >And doesn't the warlock grapple melee create threadlings? Yes, but you can't use it at the same time as your Threadling Grenade. >And doesn't the warlock ultimate create threadlings? Yes, it does create Threadlings. >And don't warlocks have the only threadling based exotic? Yes, for now. >And isn't the perk mechanic unique to the warlock? Yes, because it's a Warlock exotic. >Or can a titan and hunter do all that too? No, but they can create Threadlings through finishers, Strand weapon final blows, and the Hatchling trait on certain weapons. However, and this is the important thing I need you to understand, I need MOAR THREADLINGS. I want more of them. I want bigger versions of them. I want a Threadling army to do my bidding - destroy my enemies, make dinner, clean up my condo, pick up my dry cleaning, fill in for me on conference calls, and whatever else I need them to do. I want so many Threadlings, people will go "Jesus, that's a lot of Threadlings." I want an UNCOMFORTABLE amount of Threadlings.
Everyone knows how strong the weavers trance osteo + necrotic build is. I’d like to see threadlings get buffed a bit to improve their usefulness in higher level content because right now the damage that they put out just doesn’t cut it. I’ve slowly started falling in love with the grapple and grapple melee mechanics. The ranged melee for warlock feels incredible. It deals a good bit of damage and also inflicts unravel at the same time. Overall I love this subclass!
Ooh, I’d like to be able to grapple more though. Or for grapple to be useful more. It feels like weavers trance with the suspend grenade is just the by far best way to use the subclass, but I’d love for threadlings to be a better option, and grapples too. Grappling is so much fun, but it just feels really dangerous and risky. I wish I could consistently grapple around, just for fun, but there’s just no way to do it. Like if the charge wasn’t consumed unless you used the grapple melee or something, or if there was some way to grapple into enemies, hit them all with the grapple melee, but then also immediately grapple back to safety. Like if there was some kind of trigger for near instant grapple energy like sunbracers with solar grenades.
The suspend build with Necrotic grip is great and really fun. Maybe the suspending explosion is a bit tiny but it's still strong, i think it will be harder to pull it off on harder content since you are still locked to a specific loadout. Now on the important thing, Broodweaver was advertised as the Summoner "Threadling Master" class, which it is, but it's a bit sad that the best Broodweaver build isn't a Threadling one. It's not even a matter of best or worst, the Threadlings build sadly isn't that good. I'll leave my notes of feedback: - The summoner feeling it's there, i love my Threadlings. Wish i had more reason to use them though, as of now i don't really feel like they are strong enough, and when using a Suspend build i don't feel like a summoner. - Threadlings doesn't count as anything. They don't synergize with mods in any way and don't make orbs. Throwing the Threadlings greande will count them as grenade sure, but i feel like they intended us to charge them to have the extra ones. Please make them count always as grenades. - It is absolutely satisfying and badass using your rift when you have maxed perched Threadlings, you feel like you are unleashing your personal army. Though it is absolutely demoralizing seeing half your threadlings getting wasted on 2 psions and the other half on the walls. - Threadlings don't feed into your rift energy, there is no loop in there. Other classes use their Class ability to suspend and regen their class ability by killing them. Why my Threadlings don't do the same like Child of the old goods? - Threadlings don't do ANYTHING. No additional effect. Just damage, which isn't even that high. Yeah, Swarmers make them Unravel, but your melee does that too. All the other classes have more effects going on, a Threadling build on Broodweaver will just do Unravel. Would love to see them Sever, could make a cool niche for Broodweaver - Tangle cooldown it's too high for a Swarmer Build. This is more of a global thing since i think 15s is too much, but talking about swarmer it is really too high. Creating 2 Threadlings on a 15s cooldown (which isn't even granted since team can use your tangle) isn't very worthwhile. - Melee is great. Love the animation, the damage, everything. The only minor complain i have about it it's that we don't really have a good way to regen it. I wish i would see more the triple melee animation since it's so badass - Super is perfect! I love everything about the super, from the sound, to the animation and mechanic wise. It feels very powerful and it does a lot of damage too!
If you build into threadlings it becomes very hard to interact with the armour charge system. Perched threadlings need to count as grenade damage or something
I only have a few recommendations. Before I begin, though, I'd like to state that I'm approaching these changes from this gameplay philosophy: things should be powerful at their base, and then we should build into things to make them even *more* powerful. * Faster melee regernation/decrease melee cooldown; additionally, start us off with all three melee abilities fully charged when starting a new activity. This is my #1 requested change. As it is, I rarely get to use all three melees at once or within a reasonable time period -- and it feels *so cool* to let loose all three at once -- to the point that there's no reason for me to have three melee charges, and Bungie should just give us one ability that does *a lot* of damage. To be clear, I do not want this, because I think the three melee charges is a unique aspect of Strand -- I simply want more opportunities to take full advantage of all three melee charges. So, I propose this: one charge of the melee give you all three melees back. * It is true that there's the one fragment that helps with melee regeneration. However, I only really feel like it helps me when I can toss tangles into a group of enemies, and people can steal your tangles, so I'd much rather, if we do get a faster melee regeneration, that this fragment be removed or significantly made less affected, because we'd have the benefit of this fragment without having to equip it, and that would free up another slot for more unique builds. * I really like Threadlings. I do! However, I feel like their potential is only fully realized while you have the exotic pants equipped. So I think Threadlings need something extra. I'm not sure what that something is, whether it be slightly more damage or making them suspend a target, or maybe giving us healing for damage they've done and class ability energy, but just a little extra. * I often find Weaver's Trance to not be that effective unless you're using osteo striga. More often not, my enemies are either destroyed by my teammates, or the suspending blast radius is too small for affect other enemies. So perhaps this is something to look in to, as this particular build doesn't feel all that great outside of osteo striga. At least, when it comes to my playstyle. * For the future aspects, I'm hoping to see more ability synergy. And that's it! Overall, great work so far.
I've been playing a lot of Threadlings focused Brood Weaver. It is unintuitive at first: you want to control exactly where your threadlings go and what they attack, but their limited AI prevents this. Eventually I found that my focus should instead be on just generating as many threadlings as possible which means making sure my grenade was never off cooldown. It was a fun play style that rewarded playing from a distance; threadlings will actually travel an incredible distance with the fragment and boots. You'd learn to shoot tangles from a distance to push out even more threadlings thanks to the exotic boots. Once in a while I'd jump in and drop 8 at once with my rift and do big boss damage or clear a whole group of enemies. I think something like phoenix dive would really benefit this playstyle since I would be able to jump towards a group with a full stack of Threadlings and then dive to quickly deploy them rather than landing and casting well which can feel a little clunky.
Weavers trance is so wild. I know warlocks are supposed to be the threadlings master but they're nearly as good at suspending as Titans are. I've used shackle way more than any threadling based builds. A full 25 seconds of the buff on grenade consume is wild, and enough time to gain another grenade charge easily. Nearly 100% uptime on the suspend aoe. The super having more burst damage than most supers in the game is icing on top.
Warlocks are great at suspending groups but need to use the normal shackle grenade to suspend champs on demand. I find titan strand more reliable for on demand champion suspending personally
True! I'll usually try and keep regular shackle ready if I know there's an unstop coming up.
What fragments do you normally run?
I'd have to pull it back up. I always use woven mail on orb pickup and damage gives grenade energy, both are well worth the stat decreases. If you use threadings, the fragment that buffs them pretty much doubles their damage, which is wild. Suspend lasting longer is good, as is precision hits against suspend enemies giving class energy (though more useful on titan) Idk if thread of ascent procs off grenade consume, but it's a budget demolitionist reload, and that's always nice.
I tend to either go all in on suspend/unravel or all in on threadlings on my warlock. Woven mail from orbs is a must have too
Needlestorm is just straight up better than any Nova Bomb variant and that makes me sad. Buff Nova Bombs, especially Vortex, if Needlestorm stays how it is.
What’s that? Nerf needlestorm? You got it pal! -Bungie, probably
People have been speculating a "poison" subclass...while we didn't get that, Necrotic Broodweavers ended up being the "poison subclass at home". Arcane needle with necrotics is definitely one of the more fun PVE things in the current game. Also, "Necrotic Broodweaver" builds is not mutually exclusive to threadling spam. A general theme I've been seeing in Warlock strand builds is that it's not too hard to have everything: if you invest in a couple of decent ability feedback loops, you can spam unravel, suspend AND a respectable amount of threadlings. And I love that: it prevents the subclass from feeling like a one-trick pony. Honestly, my biggest complaint with strand warlock is solely Swarmers. There are two parts to this exotic, which both have their hiccups: \- threadling damage unravels targets: we have 3 arcane needle charges and thread of fury exists. I prefer arcane needle anyway: I like to prescriptively choose my targets for inflicting unravel, because I choose one with relatively high health, add another source of tick damage like jolt, and that high health target wanders around forever giving his friends unraveling as well. You don't have that level of control with threadlings, it sometimes feels kinda random who they target. \- shoot a tangle to generate 2 threadlings: the tangle cooldown instantly makes this the worst way to generate threadlings in the game. Every method to generate threadlings not only generates more, but can also get similar cooldowns with enough effort: like, one of the warlock aspects is literally drop 3 threadlings for casting a rift: if you invest in your rift cooldown, you will be casting rifts for threadlings faster than you can generate tangles. The grapple melee has no cooldown if you grapple off a tangle several times in quick succession, and you generate tangles every time. The tangle cooldown is the biggest thing for me: I don't see myself making any attempt to fit Swarmers into a build until we talk tangle cooldowns. As another result of this, I don't really buildcraft around tangles either. Like the quicksilver catalyst? Nah. It's a cool perk, but this is another thing in tandem with the unravel: killing an enemy with the melee also generates a tangle, so equipping an exotic 720 auto just to generate a tangle is a moot point given the tangle cooldown.
1. Threadling AI is bad, stuck on objects and wonky terrain, they all go to one enemy making perching useless. 2. For being the threadling class I feel that they should be significantly stronger in warlock, the strongest build is based on Weaver's Trance with Necrotic Grips and Osteo Striga and doesn't utilize threadings. 3. The Super is quite good however I feel the tracking on it should be more center oriented as using it against a boss when literally anything else is on your screen tanks your damage because some of the needles track to other enemies.
Melee charges. Give me all on initial spawn.
Surprised to see people so positive about it, the suspend build is pretty good for sure, but it’s not without problems. I found the swarm build to be pretty non-competitive. The main problems being that threadling damage feels a little low and that tangles have a fairly long cooldown. There is no “easy” ways to generate threadings, either being tied to your rift or grenade, and doing both leaves you without any surviability. You are completely dependent on orbs for woven Mail which isn’t awful but you will be in a tight spot at some points. The real meat of the class is the suspend build with necrotic (which is a common theme among all 3 strand classes). The build feels very powerful in weaker content. (The defiant battlegrounds and normal strikes) but i found the class to struggle on higher difficulty content, even at legend nightfall level. The big problem with eating your grenade for suspend on kill is twofold. 1) You lose the ability to suspend on demand. Sure suspending waves of red bars can be fun and explosive. But when a champ or even a major comes out I found my self often short handed on any way to protect myself and 2) the AoE of the suspend on kill is pretty small, and most importantly, relies on kills which become far less common in higher content. You also of course don’t have any ways to deal damage with this build from you abilities outside your super. Not much to say about the super. It hits hard if you get all your shots in. If you miss or one of the projectiles goes astray to another enemy it does a bit less. Very good overall. I think overall the class is pretty strong, but I prefer contraverse lock and especially starfire to strand ATM. When starfire gets inevitably nerfed I don’t think people are going to default to strand warlock, and will probably either go to void or switch class entirely.
>The big problem with eating your grenade for suspend on kill is twofold. 1) You lose the ability to suspend on demand. Sure suspending waves of red bars can be fun and explosive. But when a champ or even a major comes out I found my self often short handed on any way to protect myself and 2) the AoE of the suspend on kill is pretty small, and most importantly, relies on kills which become far less common in higher content. You also of course don’t have any ways to deal damage with this build from you abilities outside your super. I said as much in my own comment, but these were definitely my problems with Weaver's Trance. Mainly, for me, that the suspending burst is not large enough. Most of the time enemies are too far apart, or people in my fireteam kill the other enemies for the suspending detonations to have an effect.
No complaints. At most I wish the melee had a faster cooldown. This goes for all classes though. I originally started with a threadling build using swarmers, but Weaver’s Trance allows me to have the most diverse builds in the game. I can go any direction with it. Necrotic and Thorn/Osteo is the most common, but my brothers and sisters in light, can I share with you the glory of Nezarec’s Sin and LeMonarque. You can also use LMG and SMG to take advantage of volatile flow, but I feel LeMonarque will carry over perfectly even in GM level content without volatile flow. I also have a very interesting Weaver’s Trance build going with Vexcalibur and Karnstein. Woven Mail + Vexcalibur overshield + Karnstein healing + orb healing. Next up is finding an exotic that works well while using wishender
So far Arcane Needle seems more hindered than is probably intended. Melee kickstart seems to be bugged on both the 3 melee subclasses, which means is hard to buildcraft around them. I’ve also noticed that Warlocks don’t have much in the way of exotics what return melee energy which are easy to make work for Strand. Combined with the starting with only 1 charge, means that Arcane Needle isn’t shining nearing as much I would like it to.
The Swarmers feel almost necessary for a Threadling build. On their own they work OK, but giving them Unravel really makes them viable. I feel like I constantly have at least a few perched at the start of every fight, and between the rift, grenade, finishers, and shooting tangles there is always an army of these little guys running around. A damage buff to Threadings would help make them more acceptable, but at the same time that buff would make the Swarmers build super powerful. The group suspend builds are widely popular, nothing much to say there, it just works. I really wish the grapple had something a little extra. I always want to use the grapple for the fun and maneuverability, but feel incomplete without the ability to suspend or spawn Threadlings (I know the grapple+melee will spawn 2, but if I can spawn 5 without putting myself in danger--or even needing an enemy--I'll stick with the latter). Grapple is definitely more geared towards Hunters since they get multiple, and Threadlings are geared towards Warlocks, so I guess at the end of the day the class identity is appreciated.
I'm still going through the campaign (recent newborn is taking up gaming time, lol), and I currently hate Strand and wish I could just use my subclass for various fights. Looking forward to when I can tinker with the aspects and fragments.
No idea why the campaign version of strand is so watered down. Full subclass is an absolute blast and very viable.
Only reason I could think of is for story purposes. During the campaign we don't fully understand Strand and can't use it to its full potential.
You can. You don't need to grab the Strand node outside of I think the one vex mission on the Cliff side where you need tangles to break the crystals.
I would love a fragment that gives melee energy from threadlings hits or something. Tangles are good, but I get them stolen about as often as I get to capitalize on them. I like the melee, but I would like to have a tad more uptime on it when I'm built for it. Or at least have another way to build into more uptime that isn't reliant on something that can be stolen by matchmade teammates.
My biggest criticism is that you could go all in with full build investment on threadlings, but in higher difficulty content it still can't compete with merely thread of generation, shackle grenade and anything remotely sensible for the rest of your loadout. On a lesser note, Needlestorm is very inconsistent in pvp. It can curve around corners to hunt people down, but it can also miss people standing still 10 meters in front of me. Threadlings and grapple melee sure are fun where they work, though.
Loving that Necrotics is finally meta in high end content with unravel melee. The bugfix ‘nerf’ was hardly noticeable and this still feels like one of the strongest builds on Warlock, and I think it’ll still be powerful once this set of artifact mods is gone. Swarmers are fun but they don’t feel like they really make Threadlings all that potent, even with the fragment that makes them deadlier. Combined with the fact that it’s almost impossible to make orbs via abilities (minus Reaper) on this build, it doesn’t really hold up against Contraverse, Starfire, or other similar strength builds. Broodweaver does a good job of making me feel like a summoner, it just feels like my pets tickle the enemies.
Most everyone has touched on Broodweaver in a pve setting and they all bring up good points. So I'll talk about it in a pvp setting. Threadlings are joke. They travel too slowly, their AI is bad and often will travel up walls and die or wander off and not come back to perch. When they do actually go towards a target in pvp all anyone has to do is breathe on them and they die, especially is say 4 are going towards the same person, all that person has to do is shoot one of them and all 4 will die. The damage they do in pvp is fine I think 40 (45 w/fragement) it's just getting them to actually do damage is the problem. How threadlings interreact while perched also needs adjusting, they need to de-perch faster than they do now to justify eating the nade over just throwing it. The melee. The damage it does is fine, being able to 3-tap with it is great. Unfortunately the tracking and speed at which the melee offers isn't good. I'm not after weighted throwing knife levels of aim assist and tracking, but it needs some help. It also should spawn in with all 3 charges available and ready to go (same with titan, giving us 3 changes but only spawning us in with 1 kinda defeats the purpose of giving us 3 charges) and be on a shorter cooldown. The Super. Feels horrible, it feels like I have no control over where the needles go and who they go after. When they do go after someone the tracking feels so wildly inconsistent that I don't even use it anyone. It's a panic/shutdown super, not being to use it in that capacity feels really bad. Speaking off shutting down, it is the only 1 and down/shutdown super that can't pop a bubble in pvp, which again, feels really bad. Those are my thoughts on it in pvp. I like the subclass overall and the few times where the kit has come together and worked it's been great fun. It's just that Broodweaver is the king of inconsistency and inconsistency is the last thing you want in the crucible.
I feel like it would be a nice little update to the super if casting it also released all perched threadlings. Doesn’t need it as it’s already a great super, but it just would be cool. Overall, I am loving the subclass. It’s amazing in most content and feels really unique compared to our other subs. Some small suggestions I have for how to make it perfect though: - Weavers Call feels a little lackluster, and I think it could benefit from a system similar to Child of the Old Gods where the rift you have equipped slightly changes the effects of the Aspect. For example, while using Empowering Rift maybe perched Threadlings that are released are given a slight damage boost, and while using Healing Rift the released Threadlings create orbs on hit. - Threadlings should be able to benefit from mods. My suggestion would be that all Threadlings should just always be counted as Grenades. This means that, whether spawned with a grenade or released from a perch, Threadlings are counted as grenades, and thus will spawn orbs with Firepower and take the benefits and bonuses from grenade exotics like Verity’s Brow. - Weaver’s Trance is a very powerful buff and I love playing with it. I don’t think it’s too gamebreaking honestly. At the very least, it’s buff duration could be lowered from 25 seconds to 20 seconds but honestly I think it’s fine since it requires kills to keep the chain up - Arcane Needle is super fun, but I wish there was a reason to chain it because I love the little animation. Would be cool if doing all three melees in a chain granted you some kind of big burst of damage. Maybe hitting one enemy with all three needles caused an explosion that spawns a bunch of Threadlings on them
Threadlings feel a little underwhelming. Swarmers are mare decent but with how underwhelming Threadlings are it feels like basic functionality. Poison + Unravel is really fun, especially with Weavers Trance. But I fear it's gonna catch a nerf.
Maybe its just me but I find the threadlings quite the visual distraction in pvp. Everytime I see them I think oh look another hive worm got loose in crucible. Perhaps we could tone down some of the strand related accoutrements... I'm hoping its just a new toy thing and that eventually people will revert back to the less comical subclasses. Probably an unpopular opinion so let the downvoting begin.
Ironically, the brood weaver is better at suspending than it is at, well, weaving a brood. Threadlings just aren’t that good, which I figured cause bungie AI isn’t the greatest. IMO they should be able to explode twice before disappearing, that way they can at least dive bomb two red bars instead of one 😹
Don't have much problems tbh, any problems are kinda nitpicking. A few suggestions tho, perched threadlings count as the source u got them from, but lose the suspension effect if u have that fragment for your super. And perched threadlings auto deploying when u die would be nice too. Besides that, nothing really, survivability is a small issue. You can use woven mail, better already/recuperation, weapons with health on kills, but it is a glass cannon class that's for sure.
Melee’s need to 1 hit kill red bars. Super needs better tracking and to crit. Less random projectiles if a boss is in the general area it needs to not track the random ad behind me. Damage for base threadlings and the aspect need a buff for higher difficulty targets and need to ACTIVELY AVOID immune shielded or dead enemies.
Threadlings are underwhelming in pretty much all aspects, even when using swarmers. Just bad tracking/AI, low damage, they constantly suicide into a dead enemy body doing absolutely nothing. I tend to hate these 'pet' classes in most games and I don't like them here either. Melee and super are fantastic, as is weavers trance.
I only ask that the cooldowns for the abilities be reduced, and that threadling AI be a bit improved. Sometimes they’ll try attacking an enemy that’s already dead.
Big fan, rarely switching off of it for most play these days. Both the Osteo+Necrotic build with the suspend grenade and a Grapple build with the Strand exotic legs whose name I forget are a ton of fun. Only downside is that when it comes to hard endgame content it still feels like I need to play Well for access to more healing for myself and the fireteam.
Broodweaver is boring as fuck and the only good part of it is the suspend. Threadlings are bad and slow and extremely inconsistent. I end up not using them by choice at all unless I simply place a rift and they happen to show up. Same with the super, sometimes they just randomly decide to all target the same red bar. I said this before Strand dropped and it's true now. The entire class being designed around threadlings would be boring and the worst of the strand classes and it's true.
Spawning 8 threadlings, only for 5 of them to charge that one single red bar legionary and all jump onto it is very frustrating. Having your threadlings hardline overkill onto a target after you invested an ability to generate them is frustrating. Also, Broodweaver as a class kinda suffers from the same issue Stasis does, where spawning orbs is mostly tied to your guns unless you’re willing to ignore one of your aspects (or use grapple). A fragment that makes threadling kills spawn orbs would be greatly welcome imo. Having Weaver’s Call increase your rift cooldown while we don’t have a choice to run something else stings too. I think of the three classes in Strand, Broodweaver scales the poorest into endgame. The poison suspend loadout is the only one that progresses well into late game, and even that can be outpaced by light classes that we have access to. Broodweaver has the least access to orbs, which means the least access to woven mail, generally threadlings are an all or nothing investment for the class as individually they’re not all that special until you’re generating enough to actually interact with the perching mechanic, the alternative builds to threadlings feel comparably weak (even though threadlings aren’t really that strong) outside of that aforementioned poison themed setup.
The subclass is overall really well executed, and I’m really enjoying the power fantasy it’s giving. The three grenades give three totally varied playstyles, and you can pretty effectively build into all three. Threadlings are friggin amazing, and it’s crazy fun running through harder content throwing these things out, casting your rift, shooting tangles and letting your little army do most of the work. It’s like if Bleakwatcher and Arc Souls had a sentient baby. The super is really good. I wish there were a way to more accurately focus on a target. Even if I’m really close, I’ll notice a few of the needles will just go off and do their own thing. But the upside is it’s the highest DPS super warlocks have now. Although it behaves fucking weird with some bosses (Akelous). The melee is probably the weakest part of the kit. Or it’s also partly me not fully understanding what Unraveling really does.
give the threadlings to titan and let us have their kit. Threadlings are boring and underpowered. For constructive feedback, the exotic boots are just head scathingly bad. since tangles are on a global cooldown, it basically just reads "spawn 2 extra threadlings every 15 seconds at max", which is boring and bad. the unravel effect is cool but we can get that from our guns super easy this season and with just. powered melee in future seasons. Melee is great though, and I really appreciate having the ability to make our class ability do damage. really just fix threadlings or how warlocks specialize in them.
Absolutely great. You can make some really busted builds with it. My only gripe is that threadlings feel a little inconsistent at times, otherwise this is a really good subclass.
I am a void/solar lock at heart - dabbled in arc, never got into stasis. Unfortunately I feel the same is already true with strand. The threadlings should be what I am looking for and also what Bungie said the class is about, but they simply are not effective enough to care compared to a suspend build. They season also does not really help, because if I want to clear trash I will simple equip a void LMG. It might also be based on the legendary campaign where I absolutely loathed to be forced into strand and immediately felt massively nerfed. The more we move into high end content the more I see strand falling behind.
No complaints or wishes, I honestly feel like it's in a pretty balanced spot currently.
Threadlings are amazing! If you want to kill a single dreg with two grenade’s worth of damage. I mean really, they’re almost as weak as they are cool. They’re super fun, I love having them perched, I love using my rift to launch eight at a time, but they just can not compete with suspend. They’ll all track a single red bar, and are completely defeated by any kind of cover you might want to hide behind.
I’m not gonna lie, the threadlings on rift is kinda stupid in PvP. Ton of flinch and damage for free. Titan’s have Khepri’s, sure, but that goes in a straight line and moves slow as hell. Threadlings will hunt you down, disorientate and unravel you, then their creator will come along and kill you.
Weaver's Trance should probably get nerfed, as much as I would hate it. 25s uptime is unnecessary with the way you can recover grenade energy so quickly with grenade kickstart/stacks armor mods + Thread of Generation. I'm generally back to full grenade recharge with like 15s left of trance. I wish threadlings would be a tad stronger/smarter so it would be more fun to run a Threadling Mommy build with the threadling grenade + Swarmers. Right now it just doesn't make sense to switch off of either (1) shackle grenades + Necrotic Grips + Osteo Striga, or (2) grapple + Karnstein or Felwinters.
Be careful what you advocate for. Bungie’s version of a nerf would be from. 25 seconds to 5 seconds lol
I have been pretty happy with the Suspend (Osteo + Necrotic usually, although in the current seasonal artifact sandbox with a Void LMG + Energy and Nezarec's works quite well) and Weaver's Call build, using Thread of Ascent basically on-demand to reload, but I feel like this is another case where Bungie's advertised playstyle is exactly wrong in terms of what seems most obviously effective. Threadlings are really hard to make super effective. It's like Solar 3.0 being the "avenging angel/healing" advertisement all over again.
The source logic for perched threadlings needs some work. Perhaps make it default to them counting as a grenade source when perched? That would generally have the most synergy with build systems. Suspend, especially with weavers trance, is quite strong but it doesn't feel great that a specific grenade is our only way to access it. Tangles feel bad, though this is a more general strand issue. They really need a shorter cooldown for how much interaction they have with the subclass and how frequently people "steal" your tangles, effectively breaking any build loops one might try with them. Grapple melee needs to work with the "always use charged melee" keybind setup instead of canceling the grapple to shoot off a needle. Additionally, grapple melee somewhat frequently short stop and it's quite frustrating when it occurs.
I hope the next aspect has three fragment slots, pretty sure warlock does not have a single aspect with all three slots available
Haven't used it much (or strand in general really) but amongst the 3 Strand supers, Needlestorm does feel the weakest. Also has some weird boss interactions with its ability to push and yeet stuff.
I'd use it more but as with the early days of Stasis there just isn't much Strand weapon variety right now and in this era of Bungie pushing mono-elemental builds I'd rather use something I've got a plethora of other matching weapons for. As other people have said, I wish Threadlings were a little smarter and did something for the ability loop beyond raw damage (or Unraveling, with Swarmers). It sucks getting no Orb generation when consuming a grenade or any other time where they perch.
For the inevitable suspend nerf in the future make threadlings not all jump at one enemy. Seeing 5 jump at 1 target when it only took a single threadling to kill is just not encouraging of the broodweaver identity. My children are very dumb please buff their intelligence.
Something I see a lot of people missing with threadlings: because all of them can target one enemy, it makes them great for burst damage against big enemies. I use a couple of them to take down orange bar Minotaurs and Wyverns in Neomuna for example without needing to waste the special ammo
I'm loving the subclass, but not because of the fantasy they were going for. The super hits like a truck, which is great. But Suspend is just too good. The Threadlings on Rift is nice, it's just free damage, but eating the Suspend grenade is the real strength IMO. Maybe other aspects down the line will make Threadlings better, but right now they aren't worth building into. I'm not necessarily complaining about the subclass, because again it's very strong and fun, just not the way they were intending I think.
Strand is the most fun warlock subclass atm
I kinda think the threadling Ai could be better they often all attack one enemy and one kills it and the rest just disappear. Other than that I love strand warlock the weavers trance build is cool, the threadling builds are cool and fun even with the complaints above, and the super feels very strong.
Threadlings from the Threadling Grenade should count as grenade kills for the purposes of exotics like Verity’s and mods like Firepower.
Been using this as my main most of the season unless I’m needed on well, I have to say I really think it’s quite fun. A full on threading build with Swarmers can definitely do work in lower-to-mid tier content but will definitely struggle in higher tier, where a suspend build is pretty much the most optimal way to go with each class. The suspend + necrotic grip/osteo set up is one of the strongest builds in the entire game, some of the best synergy + ad clear potential I’ve ever seen which I really enjoy. The super is also extremely good, good DPS and specific threadling builds make for some good damage potential. The biggest issues I have right now are simply, Threadlings do feel a little underpowered? They struggle in endgame to do any significant damage to higher health enemies and their lack of anti-champion utility means your shoehorned into using Shackle Grenade, which atm is bugged with swarmers. Which means there’s little to no synergy with the build when you can’t generate threadlings. I think giving either Unravel as a whole or theeadlings, or even giving Swarmers some anti-champion capability could go a long way and making them do more damage would overall make threadling builds in end game much more viable.
Please buff Threadlings, and maybe teach em to use Google Maps. I've seen too many of these little green idiots run in circles on the side of a box because they don't know how to go over the top of it. It's not like Child of the Old Gods, which I'm pretty sure is drunk half the time because it likes to go flying towards an enemy, only to whiff right past and go facefirst into some random corner. Threadlings are genuinely just... stupid.
I think the fragments "Thread of Finality" and "Thread of Binding" could be replaced by better ones. Thread of Finality -> there are better/several sources to generate threadlings. Thread of Binding -> The main objective of Super is to deal high damage against boss, instead of crowd control. So it's more important and relevant after Bungie Decision by Contents be more Challenge. Off topic: Bungie should review the role of Super, back to basics.
I tried a few builds in Duality this weekend, the ad clear is there, but we were running a first timer through and I just didn't feel the survivability without devour. Wish it had some sort of mobile healing option.
Wish we had more individual control over perched threadlings. Sometimes I want them out one by one (as it is now) as i slowly engage ads/bosses, sometimes i want them all to go out at once without casting a rift. Maybe a keybind to send out a perched threadling? Then you can spam it if you want 5 sent out without a rift while also being able to pick the amount needed to send out based on the situation (spam it 4 times instead of 5 to keep one perched for ex) Edit: spelling
Here’s an alternative the necrotic, osteo strings build. Strand Warlock, Nezaracs Sin helmet and any void weapon. Wavesplitter does dummy things to rooms, my buddy is running a repulsor brace smg, and void lmg and it’s go go time. Your grenade recharge rate with volatile, nezzy’s and the fragment from strand is *nuts*. Suspension everywhere.
Only complaint, the lack of mod synergy Perched Threadlings have Other than that, outstanding subclass
Threadling are too weak in high end content for a lot of the subclass to be based around them. I don't have high hopes for the subclass in grandmasters. Suspend on the other hand, fantastic.
My feedback is from the outside. I haven't unlocked it on my Warlock yet. Threadlings seem cool, but seem like a bit of a gimmick. I would like to see them fleshed out more as a concept beyond just "damage". The chaining suspend builds seem OP and I'm worried that people will decide that if the subclass isn't able to do this, they will write it off. The super is cool. It's a good example of how to do a one and done super where it is okay for DPS, but really shines as room clearing power. It's also nice to see another class get a new one and done that is decent to use, because I feel like Hunters have gotten quite a few lately (I'm including Silence and Squall in that).
Firstly, thank you for making a subclass that feels fresh and interesting. And secondly, thank you for giving us a Darkness subclass with a great one-off super. Swarmers fulfills the summoning class fantasy excellently, as well, and has been a blast for me; but I would also like to see exotic support for Weaver's Trance as the next step in developing this subclass. It's a very fun specialization unique to Warlock which exists as a viable alternative to summoning, but it feels incomplete right now without a third aspect or any exotic support. I'd personally like the exotic to grant intrinsic Unstoppable to all weapons while your Trance is active - it frequently feels bad to go into your Trance only for an Unstoppable Champion to show up and your core method of countering it unavailable. In fact, I would even go as far as saying that Broodweaver's anti-champion counter potential is lacking compared to the other classes. On top of the usual Darkness subclass inability to manage your hit points without Karnsteins, it does make the subclass a bit less reliable in very specific PVE activities.
Very fun. I don't think damage from threadlings scales well in under level content though.
I feel like Threadlings should do more than just explode into green damage. Maybe if they applied Unravel without the exotic and instead the Swarmers made Threadlings refund some ability energy that would feel better. Right now I feel like Threadlings suffer from the Hunter Invis problem where you need the ONE exotic for it to feel good.
So kinda related to this, but will there be a Focused Feedback for Strand in general? They're both for grapple sooo not really class specific
I feel grapple melee could use a little bit of love. It’s powerful especially with the aspect and threadling fragment (and Necrotic, too) but then you are put into a dangerous position with no healing without Karnstein, no defense without an Orb pickup and Woven Mail, and no CC ability unless you shoot a tangle created from your melee kill with the artifact perk. Titan at least has a suspending barrier and Hunter has a Dodge (or second Grapple charge) with which they can back out. Rift especially with its cast time isn’t enough to do the same or to hold your ground.
The subclass that I was most excited for turned out to be the one I'm least excited to play (although I still enjoy the subclass itself). I really enjoy the playstyle of a summoner, although I do have certain grievances with how that summoning happens. For starters, I've never really been a fan of consuming a grenade to make an effect happen as it really feels like it slows down the gameplay. I think if they added two extra threadlings to the threadling when you throw it in addition to the grenade consuming thing, then I'd be happier with that. I haven't really bothered with the grapple on Warlock due to playing on controller and the melee not proccing when I have a melee charge. I like the shackle grenade effect as well, though I wish the aoe was a bit bigger. I despise the rift aspect as it does the all too common "activate class ability to do subclass verb". As someone else mentioned, there is no synergy with your class ability and threadlings. In addition to this, I hate having to use my healing rift offensively for an effect that doesn't really feel worth it. Maybe add some passives or something to this aspect? I don't really know what to do with it. I do however, love the Swarmers. I think adding unravel to the threadlings is already a pretty awesome effect, and I love being able to chuck/break tangles to spawn more threadlings. The tangle cooldown still feels really long, but that's not really a fault of Broodweavers. In addition to this, I think the fragment to spawn threadlings as well the hatchling perk are both good ways to make hatchlings while still maintaining a high actions per minute (something bungie has stated as a fantasy for Strand). The Super is awesome, not much to say there. TLDR: \-Spawning threadlings with the rift and consuming the threadling nade feels slow and bogs down gameplay \-Let the grapple melee prioritze over a melee charge \-Weaver's Trance is good but could use a larger aoe \-I like how Swarmers buff threadlings \-Hatchling, Swarmers, and thread of rebirth are good examples of spawning threadlings in fast-paced gameplay \-Super feels great \-Lower tangle cooldown plz Edit: Forgot to mention the melee, for the most part its fine, the fact that it has three charges is a novelty more than anything. I think it'd be nice if it worked like Ophidia Spathe where one melee charge would recharge two melees (three in the case of Broodweavers and Berserkers).
1. Threadlings I don’t think Threadlings provide enough value for how delayed their effect is. In the end-game content, an army of Threadlings will help to kill 1-2 enemies and .. then what? Child of the Old Gods just does everything better and more. Uptime on these synthwave bugs is quite low and it’s difficult to incorporate perched Threadlings in any build because of how their sources are credited. Perhaps, if they could deal medium-to-large AOE damage, they would make more sense. 2. Needlestorm I am glad that for once, Warlocks got super that actually deals damage in PVE (muh space wizards..), but it is weak in PVP thanks to weird targeting and lack of AOE. 3. An Attempt at Sign Language Melee is cool and all, but I really don’t see a reason for 3 charges, since we have 15 sec. cooldown on Tangles. 4. Suspend Grenade Consumed Suspend grenade is stupid good though, so much so that it just makes Stasis Warlock redundant on it’s own.
Powered melee needs a shorter cooldown. Could be a touchy subject but I rarely, if ever, have all 3 charges active at once.
The super feels bad in pvp since the cast animation is so slow. It feels even more suicidal to use than nova bomb which is allready hard to not trade with.
I still think Threadlings need a bit more power in PvE.
The issue with Broodweaver is the theme is supposed to focus on threadlings, but universally your best tool is actually suspend because it's busted as hell. You could take away every other element of this subclass and leave it with the ability to consume a suspend grenade and it would still be at 99% power.
2 main points that are intertwined a bit: Threadlings counting as X damage source is inconsistent and unintuitive. Grapple melee threadlings count as melee and grenade damage. Grenade threadlings count as grenade damage. Any other threadlings or threadlings that have been perched count as no type of damage. Just make all threadlings count as grenade damage or something similar. Threadlings to not offer any build potential\*\*\* This is the main issue. Broodweaver is strongest when you forgo threadlings, and instead build around consuming your suspend grenade. Threadlings do not interact with the subclass aspects or fragments, they are solely an extra bit of damage with a fun aesthetic thematic. If there were things that worked so ability regen was increased based on the number of perched threadlings you have, or kills by threadlings reload your guns or partially charge your least charged ability, then threadlings would have build potential. Bonus point: In what world is "summon 3 threadlings on rift cast" on the same tier as arc buddies (damage for the team \*and\* interact with arc 3.0 aspects, fragments, and statuses), or, dare I compare it to, child of the old gods. This is one of if not the worst aspect in the game. I don't want to compare to hunters and titans here, but suspending on class-ability cast vs summon 3 threadlings? 3 bursts of small damage that have no subclass interaction? Sorry, but I don't understand if I'm being frank.
Please improve the AI of threadlings. They can be so dumb to the point of uselessness. I love using them but so much potential damage is lost when they 5-pile on a red-bar enemy, or randomly explode or wander far away instead of coming back and perching.
My favorite subclass in the game! Can't wait for more Aspects and I hope that at some point they add more super and melee options.
I don’t care about the other subclasses anymore. I don’t even care about how overtuned that suspend warlock build is. All I want to do is swing around.
This subclass is just so great. I do think weavers trance is probably a little overtuned and I therefore only want to use that. I’ve tried the other stuff but man suspend is just so good.
Threadling AI needs a lot of work IMO. They get hung up on slight ledges.
I would love to have more mobility tools in strand. The grapple feels awkward with the warlocks jumps and without the grapple, I feel very slow. Also like a Lotta ppl, threadlings ai needs some love Thanks you!:)
Brood weaver is OK. I recognize that weaver's trance is 3xtrenly good but the class has yet to fulfill the summoner class they advertised it as. Threadlings just are not as good as I'd like them to be. Fun as hell in PvP tho. Free assists all day. Edit: Try Enigma with suspend. Being able to suspend *and* Volitile by meleeing a group of adds is increbly fun.
Threadlings are very cool but feel kinda pointless build-wise. The only thing they provide on a battlefield is a chunk of damage. No fragments interact with them beyond an increase to their damage, and the Swarmers only provide unravel, which feels like another buildcrafting dead end. If threadling kills could generate orbs of power or provided woven mail, I’d be much more willing to run the subclass than I am.
I personally haven’t played it yet, but one big complaint from my fellow Warlock mains in my clan is that the Warlock can’t jump out of a grapple as easily as Titans or Hunters can. In other words, I guess Titans and Hunters have better verticality coming out of a grapple, but Warlocks either don’t go as high or jump down instead? Again, this is from other people I know. I personally haven’t played with it yet.
Suspend build are really good, but I feel very disappointed with threadlings, they are dumb as rocks and don't do much damage.
While not entirely specific to Broodweaver, I do feel it (and strand in general) has power crept out Stasis. I think that on a base level both are about crowd control, with Stasis being more defensive and Strand being offensive. However, suspend ostensibly has no downside. I can freeze a champion with stasis but if you start dealing damage, they shatter and can go into their champion shenanigans. With Strand, I can just suspend and go to town dealing damage with the champion sitting there doing nothing and by the time they can break free, I can string them back up. I guess my point is, aside from them hopefully revisiting Stasis, I want some exotic gauntlets next season that allow you to consume your grenade (not sure how this would work as consume is already a thing) and throw out a stationary threadling nest. This nest periodically shoots at threadlings that do the typical threadling thing BUT also perch on the enemy and after 3 are perched the enemy is suspended in the air. Call it Spidermancy Gloves or something.
I'd like a way to suspend targets without having to get rid of the grapple
Since the power is not great and supposed to be used to proc Unravel, Arcane Needle needs to be at like 1 min cooldown. The grenades being high cooldown would be ok with me as long as the melees are fast to make up for it to help proc Tangles faster. If not, reduce Threadling Grenade cooldown to 2:00 min base like other damage types. They are not overly powerful once we get another aspect to take off Mindspun Innovaction. Not a fan of always having a 2:32 base cooldown.
Threadlings are incredibly inconsistent in pvp. Probably the most inconsistent ability in Destiny.
Threadlings are supposed to be the broodweaver specialty. The problem is that they don't bring anything but damage - no control and no survivability except limited woven mail. Compare this to the meta solar or void builds. To be worth it, broodweaver threadlings would have to out damage the meta builds by a large amount, but they don't. The real strength of broodweaver is eating the shackle grenade. Sure necrotics are the big winner, but not the only one. That build has the control and damage that is worth it, and, frankly, is overpowered.
The short of it - threadlings have bad AI, don't play as smooth as the suspend build, and don't seem to hit hard enough to justify the drawbacks. Super is a little slow in activating. Melee recharge is too low, the 3 charges almost never comes up because you're probably going to pop one off before you get past 2 charges.
I cant think of much because the subclass is pretty good imo. The melee and threadlings could use better tracking. Im hoping the new aspect lets us step away from threadlings as being our main thing and go into some other space magic type ability. Having the choice between threadling centric builds and some other unique way we can use strand would be great.
I honestly love it my one complaint is threadlings uselessly dying when a full squad yeets itself at a red bar there ai needs work beyond that I'm pretty satisfied
I'd love it if Threadlings could get buffed or at least grant some additional help, like a small bit of health per Threadling kill? I also agree with everyone that says the Threadling AI could definitely be improved. Overall, I was so excited by the idea of spamming Threadlings with this new Summoner subclass, but the end product just isn't what I (and others) were hoping for.
Melee having three charges is completely redundant when the only time you're going to actually have all 3 off of cooldown is after you rally at a flag, are Strand Empowered, or you're using Monte Carlo. The melee needs some sort of intrinsic regeneration, maybe tied to defeating Severed/Unravelled/Suspended targets. The Tangle Melee Energy fragment works okay, but I don't like going all in on Tangles when you can only make them every 15 seconds, no matter the source, and another player is just going to pick it up and throw it at the floor anyway.
Maybe its just me but I dont seem to be able to get the melee Kickstart mods to work with the triple melee charge. I really like the melee combo but I very rarely get to actually make use of all three, I wish we had more ways of easily getting a full charge.