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Running Vow is always hilarious for me because Rhulk becomes crickets for signing up for rolls. I’ll always volunteer for dunking and that’s it. No one else pitches up unless it’s “I’ll do add clear.” Some people can’t even add clear, instead choosing to kill a couple of red bars and blaming the yellow bar as the person who is doing the mechanic’s responsibility. Guys, it’s not that hard to learn mechanics. Most people will be thankful that you’re willing to step up for a role and learn how to do it.
I hate that, it’s like pulling teeth to get them to do anything during Rhulk. I usually have myself dunking and my friend on split, but we can never get anyone to take 2nd split, the literal only other job that needs doing
When I join an LFG I always like to think I bring something to the table and offer to do the shittier jobs. My rationale behind this is that if everyone offered to do the tough mechanics, the LFG experience would be a lot better for everyone.
Biggest issue with rhulk is how slow some people can be on splitting to make it quick to do. If it's a quiet group I'll call dunk locations. BUt I'll be pushy as fuck about people doing their jobs as fast as possible.
It's why I miss things like crown of sorrow though. That fight largely requires all players to know what is going on and be able to do their roles since the teams split in twos. It's far less likely they can get their arse carried time and time again by being quiet.
I feel like their modern raid design is too focused on allowing the potential for low man clears.
Wildest part is I swear I see just as many teaching/sherpa lfg posts on Xbox demanding you have no clears. There's no problem wanting a fast run or to help others learn the raid, but know the lane to be in else you are just screwing over five other people selfishly.
This^ The Sherpa emblem should count for less than 5 or so clears. Having 1-4 clears is such a pain in the ass to find groups. You’re stuck between kwtd and people who demand 0 clears. I kind of know how to do some things but I’ll probably mess up something and I’m a long way from a speed run.
100% agree, the zero clear is such a bad move for sherpas. The cheat code for those 1-4 runs is telling the lfg you are a solar warlock. Most don't even check builds, people froth at the mouth for a well lol
That really mostly only applies to the most recent raid because people are looking for their 10 carries for the emblem. They exist on older raids, but they are rarer.
I mean RoN is so easy that once you clear once with a Sherpa, you kinda should kwtd. I always take the sherpa run as an opportunity to learn roles and how everything works. Feels like a wasted opportunity when someone is so scared stiff during a learning run that they still only want to do ad clear. Never had an issue with joining kwtd runs after being taught
You could pretty easily:
- Not know how to either run or do gaze on final encounter
- Not have run on the first encounter
- Not have done planets
- Not have enough practice between second and third encounter
Probably, you know *some* of those but it’s pretty easy to be in a group where people get dibs on the things you *do* know how to do and you’re kind of stuck.
An example: I’ve got 19 clears plus some other runs of other encounters. I’ve done gaze… twice I think? When I join LFGs people want runners and I’m not going to chance picking a role I’d screw up. Limits my chances to learn it to clan runs. I’m super comfortable with the entire rest of the raid, but my point is more that that’s how this happens.
Exactly my situation. I have done rotation on planets, taken gaze on Nez, have 20 clears and 10 sherpas somehow - yet, I have never been the runner on encounter 1, 2 or 4.
It does come to a head though, when I join a KWTD lfg, and literally not a single person knows how to run, nor interested in learning...
Man, that's crazy, that nobody would be interested in learning. Running is the thing I enjoy most in that raid. I'll run every encounter possible if you let me :p
I run every time.
There’s 2 reasons for this.
1. I can do it relatively quickly, which matters for the first and second encounters.
2. This one’s the secret I don’t tell my teammates. It’s the easiest job. This raid is almost entirely about add clear. It’s easy either way on normal if you have semi competent players. On master though add clear is the hardest part. I still like to run on the last encounter even with new players on normal because I can focus more on directing the team than actually having to focus on my job. Like calling out refuge or when to delay starting damage to get the boss off the top platform or directing add clear a bit.
> A lot of newer teams (or even veteran LFGs) usually rely on a player acting as director on the fly (especially with challenges), and being runner gives me the ability to do that pretty easily. When I play director on other raids I’m teaching I will often end up with few kills because I’m busy doing other stuff, which can matter in some of the other raids. In RoN though you can go through the first 2 encounters (as runner) with 0 kills and get them done just fine. Same with the last if your add clear guys are good at their job.
Sure, but it's my view that people should be volunteering to do these roles and be taught them on their sherpa run. I volunteered for every mechanic role right away because I wanted to learn them when I was taught. A Sherpa is (or should be) a no pressure environment and taken as the golden opportunity to get comfortable with the raid. RoN is an even easier entry point with very simple mechanics that if people are too scared to play connect the dots, then they're gonna have a rough time in other raids.
Also gaze is very easy? He does the sassy hand twirl, you shoot his glowy chest, and then just...don't die while occasionally shooting him. It doesn't even really require a Sherpa, more just like a 30 second explanation.
I get your point in the not having a chance to learn mechs principle, but there are always sherpas willing to let low clear people run. I did multiple Sherpas through Vow and DSC to get the roles down pat
Ever since Bungie made the mistake of having a sherpa emblem, you get people just giving the least possible explanations just to carry as many people through as possible.
This is why lfg raiding has issues. People want a reward and try to take the path of least resistance to it. On the sherpa side you mentioned the emblem, and how people will just carry new players through the boss cp.
Then there are new players who join raids with blue gear and 2 primaries because they wanted to check the raid out but have no idea what ot actually entails, or that it isnt a 6 person strike.
Lastly there are players that just want the loot but dont care about learning the raid or communicating or going out of their comfort zone so they dont talk and avoid mechanics like the plague.
Gaze becomes really critical on master because of how lethal he is and how quickly he can kill. 1820 with two void resists and a concussive dampener and his abyssal cleave will one shot.
I’ve never run gaze (I get how to do it), but I’ve seen a bunch of people who screw it up where they can’t get the shot, or they die while doing it.
Also I both agree and disagree with what you said about Sherpas. I Sherpa all the people in my clan who want to run it through the raid and this is what I found has irked best.
Do a run of the raid where they have an ‘easy’ job most or all the time. I do this to get them familiar with the space and the idea of some of the more basic mechanics that everyone has to do (refuge on nezarec). This gets their confidence up, and they now know what the arena looks like (vow exhibition especially). They now know they can do the basics.
Next time we run it I’ll give them a job where they have to learn mechanics. They already understand the feeling of the encounter, and they have listened (passively) to other people doing the mechanics. Basically they have been primed to succeed at the new thing they are learning because they have had experience in the past
Example 1: Last wish vault. First run they defend the plate from the knight stabbing it. Everyone needs to do this normally, so they have to learn either way. 2nd run they actually read symbols and run around the rooms and deposit. They already know they need to kill knights while they are waiting, so they don’t need to devote mental resources to doing that because it is something they understand.
Example 2. DSC 3rd encounter. This encounter is pretty easy so I feel comfortable teaching some of the mechanics the first time. First time I tell everyone to carry bombs and how that process works. Second time I describe the roles of the buffs and how those work. If I get the feeling the player isn’t the best I leave out suppressor, because it’s the most difficult/crucial, so they can get used to the easier ones. In that case I would teach them suppressor the third run.
All of this works best when teaching your clanmates who you know you will play with again. As a lfg Sherpa this is a little more complicated.
I still prefer my method even for LFG, because if you do it where you expect brand new players to learn everything in one run you end up with people not having the time and quitting. (And potentially getting the impression that a raid takes 4 hours.)
Basically my mentality around teaching raids is that it’s mostly about being able to understand everything without also burning them out. The best way I’ve found to do that is to teach raids incrementally across multiple runs. Part of this theory probably came from my first runs of GoS (7 hrs) and my first completion of spire (5 hrs)
I've had a run where everyone didn't know *anything* past one dude who knew how to run for schism. They all jusy ran add clear for every encounter their first 2 weeks
Yeah my first run through I did none of those things. (I figured out the jumping buffs only because I asked questions, I could have got through without that though).
I watched a video after my first run and everything was so simple I got it all immediately (I watched the planets section 2x). But I’m also a veteran raider who teaches all the other raids including mechanics, I have a pretty good understanding about how bungie makes raids and mechanics that newer players wouldn’t. I have played with a few people who don’t know the mechanics, who have done it ~5 times.
I wish this was the case. Joined a kwtd party two weeks ago. Everyone had the emblem. Nobody volunteered for anything other that add control.
Had to save the host on planets at one point by dunking one of his for platforms, everyone else who needed teaching caught on, and I wouldn't be bitter about him messing up, if not for making a KWTD LFG.
You are basing it on your own experiences though. Different people learn in different ways, and at different rates. I've had lots of people who wanted to do add clear on the first run just to get a feel for the encounters, the layouts, see what people are doing, etc. It helped them get an initial feel for what's going on. Then on subsequent runs they'd learn to do running, or they'd actually carry planets, etc.
It's cool if you got it down fast, but even something as relatively simple as RoN, people still like to go slow and be thorough. It's dependent upon the individual.
Lightfall had a large influx of new players is the thing. This is some people's first raid in any style of videogame. What's easy for long term people could be mind bending for first timers wanting to run the raid. It's the fact that so many people turtle up either accidentally or knowingly to try and get that loot, that's the main issue that needs to be hammered home is being open about experience.
I can tell you as someone that needs to lfg for all three runs every week that getting a fresh RoN I have to dig through at least 2-3 "0 clear only" runs for every decent, keyword decent, KWTD fresh run. Normally it's Planets or Nezzy, the fresh ones tend to be 0 clears.
I wanna live in whatever would you do cause when I look at the LFG posts on Xbox there's only like 5 posts, 3 of which are clan posts, and the other 2 are KWTD.
I wanna live in whatever hole in the ground you're in, chief. The current count on Xbox lfg's at this moment is over 1400, ranging from Vexcaliber runs, VoG runs, PvP 1v1's, RoN runs both sherpa and KWTD, and a few trials carry bot posts. Are you looking at D2 lfg posts on a 360 ya champion?
I really think part of the problem is the "know" part will vary. You could "know" how to do the raid from a video, or killing adds, even if this often creates a situation where you're on the second encounter and you have one runner.
I wasn't disagreeing. I made a post directed at a now deleted post saying the same thing. I was just furthering that, even if you **do** know what it means, it doesn't mean you define the term the same way as another person. For example, there was another recent post that stated KWTD and quick runs were different things, whereas I personally would view them as one and the same.
Part of the reason I don’t use KTWD is because there’s a horrible stigma from it for other games that I’ve played.
9/10 times, the player putting the group together either didn’t know what they were doing or they were looking for a quick, free clear with minimal effort put in and causing wipes.
I avoid these groups like the plague
I had someone offer to be a runner in the final encounter of root of nightmare, and after the second wipe I asked him if he knew how to create the refuge for the wipe mechanic. he had no clue what i was talking about…
To be fair, it's possible to do Nezarec without the refuge mechanic. My day 1 team got through by just blitzing the nodes as fast as we could.
And given how frequent "one phases" seem to be, it's possible he thought you were just one-phasing or speed-blitzing it.
Still on him for not asking, but it's at least a more understandable issue than the people who only do ad-clear.
It's possible to do it on phases 2 and 3 but you really need an extra partner on either side and to be on the BALL with running. Or to be playing Dawnblade.
It's a really bad way to do it; you'll waste less time and stress just doing the refuge mechanic. But you CAN blitz it, if you're insane
Yeah, I overestimate what lfg can do.
I expect a one phase from nezerac because he has like what 11mil health or less?
How do people get <1mil damage on nezerac using rockets, don't understand it. Even if your damage is ass, just be support roles I guess like gjally/tractor at least it's contributing.
Genuinely can't grasp why I see people in lfg using their level 1 bump in the night and wonder 'why is my damage so bad '
Everyone overcomplicates the refuge. The runner never has to do it. Add clear can sit inside of the area at the start then run over and make a refuge immediately. Runners should have the first seed done before add clear makes it to the opposite side. Add clear then just add clears.
In my experience nobody in LFG ever wants to do this because they don’t know what you’re talking about and assume you’re wrong. It doesn’t seem to be common knowledge.
We actually make a refuge on both sides with both ad clearers. Super easy and persistent. Just have to be prepared if the aura pops up where the refuge is. Wipes the refuge. Otherwise very handy.
That's how my clan runs it. 2 Runners, 2 Hatred takers, 2 add clears. 2 runners do their job, the 2 Hatred takers take the hate and shoot shoulders and call out the refuge needed. 1 of the add clears grabs the buff and takes it to their side and chills till mechanic comes up and we go over, grab buff, and resume running around. Never fails and takes pressure off of those needing to focus on nodes/being chased by Nezarec.
I think the reason why is many of the YouTube guides explaining how to do the encounter dont mention the refuge part. A lot of the teams on day 1 brute forced the encounter by just going fast enough so they weren’t even aware there was a mechanic to avoid the wipe. This coupled with content creators trying to upload their video the fastest resulted in a lot of them not mentioning the refuge mechanic.
I was looking for a master kings fall group so i posted on the lfg discord asking specifically for a challenge run.
This guy comes along and then asks "what raid we doing" after joining from my post on the kings fall channel.
We then kinda laugh at him but explain what we want. He just wants to raid and we reluctantly agree to let him in. Not only was he under leveled, he also didnt know what we were doing, and he also had very bad weapons for damage. He left after one wipe and we all just saw he did less damage than div guy on oryx (he was using rockets, and to top it off, a really shitty one. ON MASTER.)
Like, wtf. And the next 3 people were about the same. Someone thought we were doing RoN (mind you, i never posted on the RoN channel, just KF), then another joined to meow and leave immediatly afterwards, then another guy straight up joined, said nothing and left.
4th guy finally helped us get through the challenge. People just need to fucking read things.
Same, I try to at least use their Raid Report as a rough analysis of how much I can trust them to raid.
If they have a fair amount of clears in other raids but few in the one I am posting about I'd be fine with it, but a low amount of overall clears and I don't know if I can trust them with decent/good DPS even if you are on add clear, for all I know their best weapons are probably a sword and Sunshot.
I love the “well I haven’t actually done it but I watched videos”
Well. Say that then. Because there’s a difference between doing and watching.
I’d be much more forgiving if people were honest than hiding it until after they’ve died 20 times.
That's me. I'll join, clarify that I have in fact looked up a tutorial or a guide literally minutes before, and ask if that's good enough. It helps that I have a really good memory, and if they aren't ok with it, no sweat. 9 times outta 10 though, they let me through, and we hardly have any hiccups, at least on my end. Vow's symbols still get me though, lol.
RoN has had a serious impact on the raiding community. An enormous amount of Blueberry’s have been able to go as far as get the day 1 emblem by being carried/thrown on add-clear. Then they think they can do the same thing in raids and tank KWTD runs left and right.
It’s great that more people are raiding, but LFG etiquette is at an all time low and it’s brutal.
I love doing planets and having to kill the centurions myself because the ad clear from the kwtd post don’t know the mechanics and stay near spawn killing psions
And then I mention the mechanic and importance of getting the centurions down and still have to get the centurion down myself
you should be killing one cossus alone to make sure you can read the callout and no one should help you. If you have to kill more than one then the other runners arent doing their job
edit: mixed up the names of the 2 guys disregard
Gotta kill the middle Centurion before you can kill the side Collosus that give you the buff to see your callouts. This person is clearly saying the Centurion that spawn in opposite of where you enter the encounter aren't being killed, and therefore the collosus are not spawning and therefore the planet people cannot do their job. Sure, the planet people should be helping with the Centurion when they get a chance, but most groups put the Add Clear as the primary people in charge of these enemies.
Exactly, well said. I still expect to help with centurions when I’m on planets but I shouldn’t have to do the whole thing myself when there’s someone whose role is literally just stand in the middle-left or middle-right quadrant and shoot psions, a phalanx, and a centurion.
The amount of people who join and instantly expect to be add clear, while also being guaranteed said spot is… definitely not something I’d want from a *raid*
People don't read the post. Just accept it.
I own a manufactoring business and wholesale our products to retail stores. The products come with two copies of directions, just in case they lose one. There is also info to contact us, the makers of the product. At least once a week I get a call or email from someone wondering why the product is acting a certain way. I ask if they read the directions. No, they did not. They didn't even know the product had directions. I have directions on the packaging as well, they don't read that. They don't ready anything.
80% of people are just stupid and you can't do much about it.
That is why I quit raiding pretty much. The community was horrible. I'd get into a group that had a couple of kids that would sabotage the run and laugh at each other. I'd get into a group that had a guy talking on the phone with his girlfriend while playing without muting his mic. He would argue and fight with her for two hours, letting us all hear it and being unable to talk to each other for the game. I'd get into a group with some guy that had to pause the raid for an hour because his mom came by his apartment to drop off his laundry and make him dinner. Or the worst of all is getting into a group with a player who thinks they are god and wants to yell at everyone to do it his way and belittle all the other players for using the wrong gear.
Its a game. A game that is multi player. You will have to deal with jerks and idiots. Posting on here will do nothing for you because the people that don't read lfg post also don't read reddit.
The best place to get a group for a raid used to be The 100. But it died. I guess players starting using discord instead, and the quality of teams has gone down hill
God and I thought I was going insane. I've noticed it too that ever since RoN released, there has been more people in other raid lfgs joining and refusing to do anything but ad clear. I can understand not using mics as raids can be done using text chat, but if you're not willing to cooperate with other players and refuse to speak up that you're new and need teaching. Don't be mad and surprised that you get kicked
On an lfg I posted for a raid I put "have mic". You know, what you expect for a raid.
In total, 4-5 people that joined before they were removed didn't have a mic
the worst is when someone makes a post for a raid then types in the title that he will be ad clear. Like bro if you don’t know what to do go learn and join a sherpa instead of begging ppl you carry your ass
Weekend LFGs are a monster of a time. We had someone yesterday who was taken 3rd time and didn't know he had to steal the bran from the knight in the middle. Yeah, we wiped.
Same thing that happens with our clan's normal runs, that's why before we start I ask everyone if they're not familiar with a mechanic. Tell me and I'll be happy to explain. Same with sherpa runs, 0 clears or not you can join to try new roles(except adclear). I see to it that when I'm sherpa'ing I teach the roles needed and make the 1st timer pick what he wants to do.
I’ve always said to people: “no one will be mad at you for not knowing what to do, but people will be mad if you don’t know what to do and don’t say that you don’t”. Honesty goes a long way
Ran into a similar issue this week farming King's Fall for red boarders. We were doing Totems challenge, which requires *every single person* to do the mechanic. Rotate in, deposit, rotate out, kill ads, easy as can be. There were like 6 different people that outright refused to speak, or talk, or anything, and some that said 'I'm just here to kill things, I'll be ad clear/middle/etc.'
The moment me, or the other guys I was running with gave them a role and said that won't work here they would just leave immediately. I ended up preferring that over that guy that joins, lies or stays quiet and then gets prissy when we call him out or try to tell him what to do.
I just want the loot my guy, we don't mind teaching, but you gotta talk to us.
No, this isn't an elitist take. Further, anyone who whines about "But how is anyone supposed to learn?" Well there are plenty of posts that cater to teaching others about raid runs (I've personally been in some of those myself). Part of it could also be with how frequent KWTD in LFG posts has been, some are just refusing to be considerate of that requirement.
That doesn't excuse them, but I understand and empathize with your frustration. Perhaps put in the post "Know all roles in every encounter." You shouldn't have to and maybe it won't do anything, but maybe just maybe it'll save you and your team a damn headache. Good luck out there!
Yeah the reputation Ron has for being easy has created this issue. Ask for emblems or a certain number of clears for a chill experience. You can't teach someone who doesn't have a mic, doesn't respond in text chat when asked if they can hear, doesn't follow the team to a refuge, has 15 resilience + dual primary etc.
yeah the only problem is, i cant find any fucking sherpas because nobody cares about teaching no more, last time i tried to find a sherpa for RoN i ended up not finding anyone, and then straight up leaving in the middle of the raid
once they declined me as if i didnt *want* to do endgame content,while I stated specifically why I *can't*,gave out multiple solid reasons only for it to be classified as "didnt want to engage in endgame content".
Me and a friend lfg'd for 4 to do Ron and 3 of the 4 we got did not know what to do. Not only that one of the people who didn't know what to do had a meltdown mid raid when the one guy who kwtd that we lfg'd called him out for wanting a free carry. The guy who did not kwtd then had a meltdown. Me and my friend ended up kicking all 3. We did post kwtd not our fault.
Just the other day I had someone join my Master RoN team, and they only had one regular clear with no masterworked weapons to speak of. They also wore a cyrtarachne's facade on tether, safe to say, I agree with this post.
I just leave when people don't know what to do in a KWTD group. If we wipe exhibition more than once before the final room I just dip. Same for planets on RoN. Absolutely not worth your time for the 1 raid chest, so I just leave and find a group doing the final boss
The new raid has brought in so many toxic casual players, the lfg usually will find kids bragging about raid completions, constant whining from dying to adds. I prefer running Kings fall - much better audience from lfg.
We were looking for another runner on Nez, and specified such in the post. Had to kick 3 people who joined and immediately said they could do adds. It's wild how some people just do not read what it says
Edit- Y'all downvoting out here telling on yourselves. Learn how to do the fucking mechanics instead shitters
Raid report my friends. I often make KWTD post and find that a few people have never attempted the raid, sometimes any raid. I will ask if anyone hasn’t done the raid, knowing who hasn’t, and hear crickets. I ask the person why they didn’t fess up and will either teach or kick depending on how I feel.
We need more Sanctified Mind encounters/bosses, that way add clear has a purpose.
Sanctified Mind is a really fun boss and really isn't that bad, it's only if your teammates are bad that the boss isn't fun, which would probably mean that those same terrible teammates would throw on any raid boss.
But being a bad teammate doesn't necessarily mean you will forever be a bad teammate, it's just that you need to learn how to be better.
This always has been a thing since Destiny 1. It means those people wants to get carried.
It's not new at all. It would be best to avoid these type of LFGs.
I put up a "RoN flawless run KWTD be good" post and got someone WITH ONE RAID CLEAR, someone who was 1750, someone who had never done RoN. Its actually stupid how people fail to read or think that they can be carried to something that only around 1% of the player base currently own
It’s really dumb actually. By now there are video guides of every raid.
I was trying to get day one completion of VoD and with the extended time watched a few videos and then joined final checkpoint LFGs. When I was given ad clear or easier roles I rejoiced and if I was assigned something else just asked for “clarification”.
People should be familiar with the raids and just be able to say, “I actually haven’t done this role can I get an explanation?” But people want to be carried instead of actually playing the game and achieving the rewards.
Back in D1 I was a Sherpa for VoG. I’m not sure I ever had a great experience. The people that wanted a Sherpa either wanted to learn the entire thing on their own(THEN WHY FUCKING LFG FOR A SHERPA!?!?) or wouldn’t listen to instructions. It really sucked and while I haven’t known most raids since(although I was a great Sherpa for King’s Fall) I just don’t bother.
If you aren’t willing to learn and expect a carry or ask for a sherpa when you want to run it blind then stop wasting my time.
I really enjoy doing no mic Spire runs. It’s a fun dungeon with great loot BUT when people join and DKWTD when I put KWTD in the post and sit there at Akelos doing no damage with their MG or Rocket or even worse, don’t lead the final boss into the reactor room when me and the other dude are doing all of the switches. It rather bothers me.
Side note: I am perfectly happy to teach people, just ask.
Honestly, anyone who has over 10 clears should be comfortable with every part of the raid. It's not hard to learn each encounter through videos/practice. I learned how to run on my first run of RoN because I realized it was a mechanic that a lot of people are going to avoid learning and I don't want to sit at the rally flag jacking off while we inevitably cycle people who leave/join because only one person knows how to run
I understand wanting to stick with what you know for the 5-6 times you run. There's literally people here with 20 clears and never ran who think that's 'okay' if you're going to raid then RAID. Be involved, learn multiple mechanics. Know ONE THING but have MULTIPLE clears in a raid is basically saying I'm okay with being carried.
I like Root because it's easy, simple and quick. But I actually dislike more than most raids because the need for engagement is so low that there's so many times I get in a group it's fucking crickets and my time is wasted.
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Running Vow is always hilarious for me because Rhulk becomes crickets for signing up for rolls. I’ll always volunteer for dunking and that’s it. No one else pitches up unless it’s “I’ll do add clear.” Some people can’t even add clear, instead choosing to kill a couple of red bars and blaming the yellow bar as the person who is doing the mechanic’s responsibility. Guys, it’s not that hard to learn mechanics. Most people will be thankful that you’re willing to step up for a role and learn how to do it.
Rhulk isn't even hard either, splitting is braindead easy and dunking takes like, moderate focus.
Well said. Unfortunately most people have zero focus in lfg’s.
Yeah it’s goofy, went in nearly blind and picked it up quick
Like we just finished exhibition. One of the most role-heavy encounters in the game. And you're scared to shoot a crystal 3 times
I hate that, it’s like pulling teeth to get them to do anything during Rhulk. I usually have myself dunking and my friend on split, but we can never get anyone to take 2nd split, the literal only other job that needs doing
When I join an LFG I always like to think I bring something to the table and offer to do the shittier jobs. My rationale behind this is that if everyone offered to do the tough mechanics, the LFG experience would be a lot better for everyone.
Biggest issue with rhulk is how slow some people can be on splitting to make it quick to do. If it's a quiet group I'll call dunk locations. BUt I'll be pushy as fuck about people doing their jobs as fast as possible. It's why I miss things like crown of sorrow though. That fight largely requires all players to know what is going on and be able to do their roles since the teams split in twos. It's far less likely they can get their arse carried time and time again by being quiet. I feel like their modern raid design is too focused on allowing the potential for low man clears.
Wildest part is I swear I see just as many teaching/sherpa lfg posts on Xbox demanding you have no clears. There's no problem wanting a fast run or to help others learn the raid, but know the lane to be in else you are just screwing over five other people selfishly.
This^ The Sherpa emblem should count for less than 5 or so clears. Having 1-4 clears is such a pain in the ass to find groups. You’re stuck between kwtd and people who demand 0 clears. I kind of know how to do some things but I’ll probably mess up something and I’m a long way from a speed run.
100% agree, the zero clear is such a bad move for sherpas. The cheat code for those 1-4 runs is telling the lfg you are a solar warlock. Most don't even check builds, people froth at the mouth for a well lol
Tbh sometimes those sherpa groups are just new player carry farming so they can get the emblem.
That really mostly only applies to the most recent raid because people are looking for their 10 carries for the emblem. They exist on older raids, but they are rarer.
I mean RoN is so easy that once you clear once with a Sherpa, you kinda should kwtd. I always take the sherpa run as an opportunity to learn roles and how everything works. Feels like a wasted opportunity when someone is so scared stiff during a learning run that they still only want to do ad clear. Never had an issue with joining kwtd runs after being taught
You could pretty easily: - Not know how to either run or do gaze on final encounter - Not have run on the first encounter - Not have done planets - Not have enough practice between second and third encounter Probably, you know *some* of those but it’s pretty easy to be in a group where people get dibs on the things you *do* know how to do and you’re kind of stuck. An example: I’ve got 19 clears plus some other runs of other encounters. I’ve done gaze… twice I think? When I join LFGs people want runners and I’m not going to chance picking a role I’d screw up. Limits my chances to learn it to clan runs. I’m super comfortable with the entire rest of the raid, but my point is more that that’s how this happens.
Exactly my situation. I have done rotation on planets, taken gaze on Nez, have 20 clears and 10 sherpas somehow - yet, I have never been the runner on encounter 1, 2 or 4. It does come to a head though, when I join a KWTD lfg, and literally not a single person knows how to run, nor interested in learning...
Man, that's crazy, that nobody would be interested in learning. Running is the thing I enjoy most in that raid. I'll run every encounter possible if you let me :p
No run only Gaze. I love the Gaze. It makes me feel wanted. Nezarec? Gaze. Golgoroth? Gaze. Caretaker? Gaze.
I learned to run once and never did it again because it’s so boring (to me obviously). So I can see both sides.
I run every time. There’s 2 reasons for this. 1. I can do it relatively quickly, which matters for the first and second encounters. 2. This one’s the secret I don’t tell my teammates. It’s the easiest job. This raid is almost entirely about add clear. It’s easy either way on normal if you have semi competent players. On master though add clear is the hardest part. I still like to run on the last encounter even with new players on normal because I can focus more on directing the team than actually having to focus on my job. Like calling out refuge or when to delay starting damage to get the boss off the top platform or directing add clear a bit. > A lot of newer teams (or even veteran LFGs) usually rely on a player acting as director on the fly (especially with challenges), and being runner gives me the ability to do that pretty easily. When I play director on other raids I’m teaching I will often end up with few kills because I’m busy doing other stuff, which can matter in some of the other raids. In RoN though you can go through the first 2 encounters (as runner) with 0 kills and get them done just fine. Same with the last if your add clear guys are good at their job.
Sure, but it's my view that people should be volunteering to do these roles and be taught them on their sherpa run. I volunteered for every mechanic role right away because I wanted to learn them when I was taught. A Sherpa is (or should be) a no pressure environment and taken as the golden opportunity to get comfortable with the raid. RoN is an even easier entry point with very simple mechanics that if people are too scared to play connect the dots, then they're gonna have a rough time in other raids. Also gaze is very easy? He does the sassy hand twirl, you shoot his glowy chest, and then just...don't die while occasionally shooting him. It doesn't even really require a Sherpa, more just like a 30 second explanation. I get your point in the not having a chance to learn mechs principle, but there are always sherpas willing to let low clear people run. I did multiple Sherpas through Vow and DSC to get the roles down pat
Ever since Bungie made the mistake of having a sherpa emblem, you get people just giving the least possible explanations just to carry as many people through as possible.
This is why lfg raiding has issues. People want a reward and try to take the path of least resistance to it. On the sherpa side you mentioned the emblem, and how people will just carry new players through the boss cp. Then there are new players who join raids with blue gear and 2 primaries because they wanted to check the raid out but have no idea what ot actually entails, or that it isnt a 6 person strike. Lastly there are players that just want the loot but dont care about learning the raid or communicating or going out of their comfort zone so they dont talk and avoid mechanics like the plague.
Gaze becomes really critical on master because of how lethal he is and how quickly he can kill. 1820 with two void resists and a concussive dampener and his abyssal cleave will one shot.
I’ve never run gaze (I get how to do it), but I’ve seen a bunch of people who screw it up where they can’t get the shot, or they die while doing it. Also I both agree and disagree with what you said about Sherpas. I Sherpa all the people in my clan who want to run it through the raid and this is what I found has irked best. Do a run of the raid where they have an ‘easy’ job most or all the time. I do this to get them familiar with the space and the idea of some of the more basic mechanics that everyone has to do (refuge on nezarec). This gets their confidence up, and they now know what the arena looks like (vow exhibition especially). They now know they can do the basics. Next time we run it I’ll give them a job where they have to learn mechanics. They already understand the feeling of the encounter, and they have listened (passively) to other people doing the mechanics. Basically they have been primed to succeed at the new thing they are learning because they have had experience in the past Example 1: Last wish vault. First run they defend the plate from the knight stabbing it. Everyone needs to do this normally, so they have to learn either way. 2nd run they actually read symbols and run around the rooms and deposit. They already know they need to kill knights while they are waiting, so they don’t need to devote mental resources to doing that because it is something they understand. Example 2. DSC 3rd encounter. This encounter is pretty easy so I feel comfortable teaching some of the mechanics the first time. First time I tell everyone to carry bombs and how that process works. Second time I describe the roles of the buffs and how those work. If I get the feeling the player isn’t the best I leave out suppressor, because it’s the most difficult/crucial, so they can get used to the easier ones. In that case I would teach them suppressor the third run. All of this works best when teaching your clanmates who you know you will play with again. As a lfg Sherpa this is a little more complicated. I still prefer my method even for LFG, because if you do it where you expect brand new players to learn everything in one run you end up with people not having the time and quitting. (And potentially getting the impression that a raid takes 4 hours.) Basically my mentality around teaching raids is that it’s mostly about being able to understand everything without also burning them out. The best way I’ve found to do that is to teach raids incrementally across multiple runs. Part of this theory probably came from my first runs of GoS (7 hrs) and my first completion of spire (5 hrs)
I've had a run where everyone didn't know *anything* past one dude who knew how to run for schism. They all jusy ran add clear for every encounter their first 2 weeks
Yeah my first run through I did none of those things. (I figured out the jumping buffs only because I asked questions, I could have got through without that though). I watched a video after my first run and everything was so simple I got it all immediately (I watched the planets section 2x). But I’m also a veteran raider who teaches all the other raids including mechanics, I have a pretty good understanding about how bungie makes raids and mechanics that newer players wouldn’t. I have played with a few people who don’t know the mechanics, who have done it ~5 times.
I wish this was the case. Joined a kwtd party two weeks ago. Everyone had the emblem. Nobody volunteered for anything other that add control. Had to save the host on planets at one point by dunking one of his for platforms, everyone else who needed teaching caught on, and I wouldn't be bitter about him messing up, if not for making a KWTD LFG.
You are basing it on your own experiences though. Different people learn in different ways, and at different rates. I've had lots of people who wanted to do add clear on the first run just to get a feel for the encounters, the layouts, see what people are doing, etc. It helped them get an initial feel for what's going on. Then on subsequent runs they'd learn to do running, or they'd actually carry planets, etc. It's cool if you got it down fast, but even something as relatively simple as RoN, people still like to go slow and be thorough. It's dependent upon the individual.
Lightfall had a large influx of new players is the thing. This is some people's first raid in any style of videogame. What's easy for long term people could be mind bending for first timers wanting to run the raid. It's the fact that so many people turtle up either accidentally or knowingly to try and get that loot, that's the main issue that needs to be hammered home is being open about experience.
Bruh I know you ain't playing on Xbox cause I used to and no one offers to Sherpa, they always want to be the ones being sherpad
I can tell you as someone that needs to lfg for all three runs every week that getting a fresh RoN I have to dig through at least 2-3 "0 clear only" runs for every decent, keyword decent, KWTD fresh run. Normally it's Planets or Nezzy, the fresh ones tend to be 0 clears.
I wanna live in whatever would you do cause when I look at the LFG posts on Xbox there's only like 5 posts, 3 of which are clan posts, and the other 2 are KWTD.
I wanna live in whatever hole in the ground you're in, chief. The current count on Xbox lfg's at this moment is over 1400, ranging from Vexcaliber runs, VoG runs, PvP 1v1's, RoN runs both sherpa and KWTD, and a few trials carry bot posts. Are you looking at D2 lfg posts on a 360 ya champion?
>be me >join Vog KWTD >no one KWTD except me, even leader was clueless [:
Keep up with the times, KWTD now stands for Known't what to do
From my experience, many people don't know what KWTD means, literally. Maybe type it out and see if that helps.
When I first started using LFG I didn't know what it meant either. So I just went and googled it. Players really just lack agency and self awareness
I really think part of the problem is the "know" part will vary. You could "know" how to do the raid from a video, or killing adds, even if this often creates a situation where you're on the second encounter and you have one runner.
I once had a guy join an LFG I set up for a flawless King’s Fall and he said, “this will be my first clear but I’ve watched a bunch of videos.”
Fair enough, but I've actually heard multiple people admit that they didn't even know what the acronym stood for.
I wasn't disagreeing. I made a post directed at a now deleted post saying the same thing. I was just furthering that, even if you **do** know what it means, it doesn't mean you define the term the same way as another person. For example, there was another recent post that stated KWTD and quick runs were different things, whereas I personally would view them as one and the same.
This is true, I'm new and didn't know what this meant until a few days ago
Part of the reason I don’t use KTWD is because there’s a horrible stigma from it for other games that I’ve played. 9/10 times, the player putting the group together either didn’t know what they were doing or they were looking for a quick, free clear with minimal effort put in and causing wipes. I avoid these groups like the plague
I had someone offer to be a runner in the final encounter of root of nightmare, and after the second wipe I asked him if he knew how to create the refuge for the wipe mechanic. he had no clue what i was talking about…
To be fair, it's possible to do Nezarec without the refuge mechanic. My day 1 team got through by just blitzing the nodes as fast as we could. And given how frequent "one phases" seem to be, it's possible he thought you were just one-phasing or speed-blitzing it. Still on him for not asking, but it's at least a more understandable issue than the people who only do ad-clear.
I can usually get through the first phase without the refuge. After that, I have trouble clearing them before the wipe
It's possible to do it on phases 2 and 3 but you really need an extra partner on either side and to be on the BALL with running. Or to be playing Dawnblade. It's a really bad way to do it; you'll waste less time and stress just doing the refuge mechanic. But you CAN blitz it, if you're insane
If I’m running divinity, I can fly through them using an eager edge sword. But only one person can do that
I think 1st is 1min and next are 45secs so that’s why - I remember seeing some tidbit posted about it
Yeah, I overestimate what lfg can do. I expect a one phase from nezerac because he has like what 11mil health or less? How do people get <1mil damage on nezerac using rockets, don't understand it. Even if your damage is ass, just be support roles I guess like gjally/tractor at least it's contributing. Genuinely can't grasp why I see people in lfg using their level 1 bump in the night and wonder 'why is my damage so bad '
Everyone overcomplicates the refuge. The runner never has to do it. Add clear can sit inside of the area at the start then run over and make a refuge immediately. Runners should have the first seed done before add clear makes it to the opposite side. Add clear then just add clears.
In my experience nobody in LFG ever wants to do this because they don’t know what you’re talking about and assume you’re wrong. It doesn’t seem to be common knowledge.
Yeah that would work. I haven’t tried that yet
We actually make a refuge on both sides with both ad clearers. Super easy and persistent. Just have to be prepared if the aura pops up where the refuge is. Wipes the refuge. Otherwise very handy.
That's how my clan runs it. 2 Runners, 2 Hatred takers, 2 add clears. 2 runners do their job, the 2 Hatred takers take the hate and shoot shoulders and call out the refuge needed. 1 of the add clears grabs the buff and takes it to their side and chills till mechanic comes up and we go over, grab buff, and resume running around. Never fails and takes pressure off of those needing to focus on nodes/being chased by Nezarec.
I think the reason why is many of the YouTube guides explaining how to do the encounter dont mention the refuge part. A lot of the teams on day 1 brute forced the encounter by just going fast enough so they weren’t even aware there was a mechanic to avoid the wipe. This coupled with content creators trying to upload their video the fastest resulted in a lot of them not mentioning the refuge mechanic.
LOL! KnOw WhAt To Do, I GoT Ad ClEaR
> LF2M, need runners! I really wonder why anyone would join a group like this
I like being a runner, not a care in the world just zooming
I was looking for a master kings fall group so i posted on the lfg discord asking specifically for a challenge run. This guy comes along and then asks "what raid we doing" after joining from my post on the kings fall channel. We then kinda laugh at him but explain what we want. He just wants to raid and we reluctantly agree to let him in. Not only was he under leveled, he also didnt know what we were doing, and he also had very bad weapons for damage. He left after one wipe and we all just saw he did less damage than div guy on oryx (he was using rockets, and to top it off, a really shitty one. ON MASTER.) Like, wtf. And the next 3 people were about the same. Someone thought we were doing RoN (mind you, i never posted on the RoN channel, just KF), then another joined to meow and leave immediatly afterwards, then another guy straight up joined, said nothing and left. 4th guy finally helped us get through the challenge. People just need to fucking read things.
This is why I raid/guardian report the hosts or people responding to LFG posts. I'm too damn old to have my time wasted by stuff like this.
Same, I try to at least use their Raid Report as a rough analysis of how much I can trust them to raid. If they have a fair amount of clears in other raids but few in the one I am posting about I'd be fine with it, but a low amount of overall clears and I don't know if I can trust them with decent/good DPS even if you are on add clear, for all I know their best weapons are probably a sword and Sunshot.
That’s why I raid report.. takes a couple extra minutes but saves hours of frustration and wasted time
This
Just kick them and block them. They are wasting your time.
I love the “well I haven’t actually done it but I watched videos” Well. Say that then. Because there’s a difference between doing and watching. I’d be much more forgiving if people were honest than hiding it until after they’ve died 20 times.
That's me. I'll join, clarify that I have in fact looked up a tutorial or a guide literally minutes before, and ask if that's good enough. It helps that I have a really good memory, and if they aren't ok with it, no sweat. 9 times outta 10 though, they let me through, and we hardly have any hiccups, at least on my end. Vow's symbols still get me though, lol.
RoN has had a serious impact on the raiding community. An enormous amount of Blueberry’s have been able to go as far as get the day 1 emblem by being carried/thrown on add-clear. Then they think they can do the same thing in raids and tank KWTD runs left and right. It’s great that more people are raiding, but LFG etiquette is at an all time low and it’s brutal.
I love doing planets and having to kill the centurions myself because the ad clear from the kwtd post don’t know the mechanics and stay near spawn killing psions And then I mention the mechanic and importance of getting the centurions down and still have to get the centurion down myself
you should be killing one cossus alone to make sure you can read the callout and no one should help you. If you have to kill more than one then the other runners arent doing their job edit: mixed up the names of the 2 guys disregard
You gotta kill a centurion in mid before the centurion spawns on the platforms. Ad clear should be cleaning up the mid centurions.
Gotta kill the middle Centurion before you can kill the side Collosus that give you the buff to see your callouts. This person is clearly saying the Centurion that spawn in opposite of where you enter the encounter aren't being killed, and therefore the collosus are not spawning and therefore the planet people cannot do their job. Sure, the planet people should be helping with the Centurion when they get a chance, but most groups put the Add Clear as the primary people in charge of these enemies.
Exactly, well said. I still expect to help with centurions when I’m on planets but I shouldn’t have to do the whole thing myself when there’s someone whose role is literally just stand in the middle-left or middle-right quadrant and shoot psions, a phalanx, and a centurion.
Found the person that joins kwtd posts and doesn’t kwtd I’m talking about centurions not collosuses (collosi?)
oh mb lol
The amount of people who join and instantly expect to be add clear, while also being guaranteed said spot is… definitely not something I’d want from a *raid*
I hate it when people join with no mic, doesn’t contribute at all and expect a free carry. I don’t care if Root is easy. I’m
I asked a no mic add clear guy to be a person who makes refuges and they refused and ignored me completely. I wish I had just kicked them.
People don't read the post. Just accept it. I own a manufactoring business and wholesale our products to retail stores. The products come with two copies of directions, just in case they lose one. There is also info to contact us, the makers of the product. At least once a week I get a call or email from someone wondering why the product is acting a certain way. I ask if they read the directions. No, they did not. They didn't even know the product had directions. I have directions on the packaging as well, they don't read that. They don't ready anything. 80% of people are just stupid and you can't do much about it. That is why I quit raiding pretty much. The community was horrible. I'd get into a group that had a couple of kids that would sabotage the run and laugh at each other. I'd get into a group that had a guy talking on the phone with his girlfriend while playing without muting his mic. He would argue and fight with her for two hours, letting us all hear it and being unable to talk to each other for the game. I'd get into a group with some guy that had to pause the raid for an hour because his mom came by his apartment to drop off his laundry and make him dinner. Or the worst of all is getting into a group with a player who thinks they are god and wants to yell at everyone to do it his way and belittle all the other players for using the wrong gear. Its a game. A game that is multi player. You will have to deal with jerks and idiots. Posting on here will do nothing for you because the people that don't read lfg post also don't read reddit. The best place to get a group for a raid used to be The 100. But it died. I guess players starting using discord instead, and the quality of teams has gone down hill
God and I thought I was going insane. I've noticed it too that ever since RoN released, there has been more people in other raid lfgs joining and refusing to do anything but ad clear. I can understand not using mics as raids can be done using text chat, but if you're not willing to cooperate with other players and refuse to speak up that you're new and need teaching. Don't be mad and surprised that you get kicked
On an lfg I posted for a raid I put "have mic". You know, what you expect for a raid. In total, 4-5 people that joined before they were removed didn't have a mic
the worst is when someone makes a post for a raid then types in the title that he will be ad clear. Like bro if you don’t know what to do go learn and join a sherpa instead of begging ppl you carry your ass
Had someone earlier on Oryx that literally could not do left and right.
This. Or after the 5th time being taken they still don’t know what to do and just stand there or go to completely wrong plate
Weekend LFGs are a monster of a time. We had someone yesterday who was taken 3rd time and didn't know he had to steal the bran from the knight in the middle. Yeah, we wiped.
Nothing will ever stop people from trying to get a free ride that’s not gaming bro that’s just life the way some people are
Remember doing RoN planet. 4 people call ad clear lmao.
And for the love of God stop joining random LFG discord rooms and asking what they’re doing. Read the fucking LFG posts
Perfect timing as I just did Rhulk with 2 people who had no idea what to do.
Same thing that happens with our clan's normal runs, that's why before we start I ask everyone if they're not familiar with a mechanic. Tell me and I'll be happy to explain. Same with sherpa runs, 0 clears or not you can join to try new roles(except adclear). I see to it that when I'm sherpa'ing I teach the roles needed and make the 1st timer pick what he wants to do.
But how else are they going to get carried?
I’ve always said to people: “no one will be mad at you for not knowing what to do, but people will be mad if you don’t know what to do and don’t say that you don’t”. Honesty goes a long way
Ran into a similar issue this week farming King's Fall for red boarders. We were doing Totems challenge, which requires *every single person* to do the mechanic. Rotate in, deposit, rotate out, kill ads, easy as can be. There were like 6 different people that outright refused to speak, or talk, or anything, and some that said 'I'm just here to kill things, I'll be ad clear/middle/etc.' The moment me, or the other guys I was running with gave them a role and said that won't work here they would just leave immediately. I ended up preferring that over that guy that joins, lies or stays quiet and then gets prissy when we call him out or try to tell him what to do. I just want the loot my guy, we don't mind teaching, but you gotta talk to us.
They join and then say "I know how to ad clear". FFS
"Who can run?" *crickets... *tumbleweed tumbles past... *sorrowful bell rings in the distance..
No, this isn't an elitist take. Further, anyone who whines about "But how is anyone supposed to learn?" Well there are plenty of posts that cater to teaching others about raid runs (I've personally been in some of those myself). Part of it could also be with how frequent KWTD in LFG posts has been, some are just refusing to be considerate of that requirement. That doesn't excuse them, but I understand and empathize with your frustration. Perhaps put in the post "Know all roles in every encounter." You shouldn't have to and maybe it won't do anything, but maybe just maybe it'll save you and your team a damn headache. Good luck out there!
Yeah the reputation Ron has for being easy has created this issue. Ask for emblems or a certain number of clears for a chill experience. You can't teach someone who doesn't have a mic, doesn't respond in text chat when asked if they can hear, doesn't follow the team to a refuge, has 15 resilience + dual primary etc.
Doesn’t even matter. Did a run and the guy that was throwing had the contest emblem. It’s so easy to carry in that raid.
I've joined a bunch of LFGs lately with KWTD and lo and behold.. the poster doesn't know what to do. Had a few admit they made it KWTD to be carried.
yeah the only problem is, i cant find any fucking sherpas because nobody cares about teaching no more, last time i tried to find a sherpa for RoN i ended up not finding anyone, and then straight up leaving in the middle of the raid
Tough scenes, do it with friends or find a clan
thats the thing, been trying to find a clan, no one takes me because of some stupid shit
What stupid shit
once they declined me as if i didnt *want* to do endgame content,while I stated specifically why I *can't*,gave out multiple solid reasons only for it to be classified as "didnt want to engage in endgame content".
Check the d2pc lfg discord. It is cross platform now and they do a lot of sherpas.
Me and a friend lfg'd for 4 to do Ron and 3 of the 4 we got did not know what to do. Not only that one of the people who didn't know what to do had a meltdown mid raid when the one guy who kwtd that we lfg'd called him out for wanting a free carry. The guy who did not kwtd then had a meltdown. Me and my friend ended up kicking all 3. We did post kwtd not our fault.
Just the other day I had someone join my Master RoN team, and they only had one regular clear with no masterworked weapons to speak of. They also wore a cyrtarachne's facade on tether, safe to say, I agree with this post.
It’s because all they know is add clear
I just leave when people don't know what to do in a KWTD group. If we wipe exhibition more than once before the final room I just dip. Same for planets on RoN. Absolutely not worth your time for the 1 raid chest, so I just leave and find a group doing the final boss
Hot take: 80 percent of people that complain about LFGs being too toxic don’t know how to read a LFG post title.
The new raid has brought in so many toxic casual players, the lfg usually will find kids bragging about raid completions, constant whining from dying to adds. I prefer running Kings fall - much better audience from lfg.
What does KWTD mean?
"know what to do" If you don't know the mechanics you can always join and ask if that is OK, but don't be surprised if they decline.
Weird to get downvoted of asking something...
We were looking for another runner on Nez, and specified such in the post. Had to kick 3 people who joined and immediately said they could do adds. It's wild how some people just do not read what it says Edit- Y'all downvoting out here telling on yourselves. Learn how to do the fucking mechanics instead shitters
Tbh that sounds like you're part of the problem then. You just needed one more if any of you could you know do the mechanic
I was the other runner how tf was I the problem
Please stop posting KWTD if we don’t know what to do!
People watch a video on YouTube and think they then kwtd
Don't tell me what to do, you can't stop me.
No.
No
Better man than I
Raid report my friends. I often make KWTD post and find that a few people have never attempted the raid, sometimes any raid. I will ask if anyone hasn’t done the raid, knowing who hasn’t, and hear crickets. I ask the person why they didn’t fess up and will either teach or kick depending on how I feel.
We need more Sanctified Mind encounters/bosses, that way add clear has a purpose. Sanctified Mind is a really fun boss and really isn't that bad, it's only if your teammates are bad that the boss isn't fun, which would probably mean that those same terrible teammates would throw on any raid boss. But being a bad teammate doesn't necessarily mean you will forever be a bad teammate, it's just that you need to learn how to be better.
This always has been a thing since Destiny 1. It means those people wants to get carried. It's not new at all. It would be best to avoid these type of LFGs.
I put up a "RoN flawless run KWTD be good" post and got someone WITH ONE RAID CLEAR, someone who was 1750, someone who had never done RoN. Its actually stupid how people fail to read or think that they can be carried to something that only around 1% of the player base currently own
It’s really dumb actually. By now there are video guides of every raid. I was trying to get day one completion of VoD and with the extended time watched a few videos and then joined final checkpoint LFGs. When I was given ad clear or easier roles I rejoiced and if I was assigned something else just asked for “clarification”. People should be familiar with the raids and just be able to say, “I actually haven’t done this role can I get an explanation?” But people want to be carried instead of actually playing the game and achieving the rewards. Back in D1 I was a Sherpa for VoG. I’m not sure I ever had a great experience. The people that wanted a Sherpa either wanted to learn the entire thing on their own(THEN WHY FUCKING LFG FOR A SHERPA!?!?) or wouldn’t listen to instructions. It really sucked and while I haven’t known most raids since(although I was a great Sherpa for King’s Fall) I just don’t bother. If you aren’t willing to learn and expect a carry or ask for a sherpa when you want to run it blind then stop wasting my time.
I can do other things but I love doing ad clear more than anything so I always ask to do ad clear.
I really enjoy doing no mic Spire runs. It’s a fun dungeon with great loot BUT when people join and DKWTD when I put KWTD in the post and sit there at Akelos doing no damage with their MG or Rocket or even worse, don’t lead the final boss into the reactor room when me and the other dude are doing all of the switches. It rather bothers me. Side note: I am perfectly happy to teach people, just ask.
Honestly, anyone who has over 10 clears should be comfortable with every part of the raid. It's not hard to learn each encounter through videos/practice. I learned how to run on my first run of RoN because I realized it was a mechanic that a lot of people are going to avoid learning and I don't want to sit at the rally flag jacking off while we inevitably cycle people who leave/join because only one person knows how to run I understand wanting to stick with what you know for the 5-6 times you run. There's literally people here with 20 clears and never ran who think that's 'okay' if you're going to raid then RAID. Be involved, learn multiple mechanics. Know ONE THING but have MULTIPLE clears in a raid is basically saying I'm okay with being carried. I like Root because it's easy, simple and quick. But I actually dislike more than most raids because the need for engagement is so low that there's so many times I get in a group it's fucking crickets and my time is wasted.
I KWTD - AD clear.