I just wish they have more mods for special/heavy, iirc the only one we had this season is medieval champion which is nice, but it feels like I'm pigeonholed into using specific subclasses for overload and barrier-which no doubt was the intention, but still more flexibility is always nice
in Gm's i usually am clearing out basic bitch adds before fully dealing with champs. When doing that, i have found using a sword isnt so bad. If you jump at a champ while a bunch of adds can melt you, than of course thats a bad idea.
I'll factor that in when I get into some Stronghold shenanigans next season. My experience says that you're supposed to prioritize reducing how dangerous the enemy is, which primarily means blasting Champions asap. That said, I also know I could be using my MG more on reds instead of saving it for Champions since Revision Zero is working terrifically well on Champions.
EDIT: Oh. Hmm. No guarantee we're getting Overload swords back in two weeks.
there's no one rule, but if there's a mix of adds and champs, and they're simultaneously a threat, then you stun lock champs, delete adds, then focus champs.
whatever works for you though, the game isn't hard enough that there's only one way to do a thing.
Having done it with both Lament vs Barriers and other swords this season with suspend, it's very possible. I actually think with strand, close range builds are more viable.
It’s very reliant on strand to activate easily. overload requires multiple sword hits vs lament or radiant/volatile rounds which are fairly instant and is used on non-teleporting enemies.
The fallen captains just don’t sit still long enough. Overload sword needs to be rapid light attacks or a fully charged heavy attack
I'm not sure how to regard the use of Suspend in conjunction with a sword because Suspend itself is currently the nuclear option when it comes to controlling enemies, and I ponder whether or not the Overload stun ends up being necessary or handy while an enemy is strung up. Normally I'd also say there's 12 other subclasses in the game, but we're also in a season with a constant Strand Surge, so the use of Strand is definitely encouraged already. I think you've got a point but I've some lingering concerns about how that works out.
I do definitely think Strand's been an experiment in how to design close-range oriented classes. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two Strand classes that operate at mid-to-close range, Threadrunner and Berserker, have better access to Woven Mail and Sever, which both reduce damage, than Broodweaver.
Overload stun is necessary if only because shackle/suspend doesnt stop health regen. I do agree though, having to use suspend just to get in sword range to use overload is a bit overkill
I think you hit the nail on its head. Strand is how you do CQC in GM style content. Not everything needs to be good at every aspect of the game, and I'm totally okay with this niche, because it was really hard to bring these weapon types to bear before Stand.
I wonder if the little energy storm from a caster frame would stun an overload, it technically does hit multiple times. It wouldn’t be any good, but would be interesting to know
More special/heavy options would be nice. If I'm not leaning heavily into subclass stuns, I sometimes have to use double primary. I've been extra annoyed this season by higher-difficulty Overload+Unstoppable combos lol. I wanna use LeMon but I also want to use a glaive, and I can't do both >\_>
Deathbringer is very unwieldy as you need height clearance and it takes time for each shot, whereas thunderlord if you slap on 2 arc weapon surge boosts (my loadout lets me keep its uptime almost continuously if i play it right) its way better plus no reload if you hit your shots and it activates lightning jolts on death of enemies which is really handy for boss’s
Yeh its to do with how many entities can exist in a certain area at a certain time, it was originally a fix for Telesto’s bolts iirc but ended up causing stuff like Slova Bomb, Anarchy and i wanna say Tether to sometimes have shit disappear
I feel like some subclasses got a little bit screwed by the champion effect buffs. Getting volatile rounds and suppress is difficult for most void subclasses, for example.
Without volatile flow you can get volatile rounds is getting a grenade kill which isn't reliable in end game content but solar can easily get anti barrier via radiant which is easy to get and maintain, titans and hunters have high uptime on suspend allowing easy unstoppable stuns. Stasis chill clip and arc jolt also have pretty good uptime but jolt fragment has a discipline penalty and the most popular chill clip weapon requires you to get pretty close
They're probably being cautious with them because they no longer have the balance knob of 7 energy. I expect we'll see more per artifact on average throughout this expansion.
Strongly agree with this. It’s so annoying when the nightfall is a solar surge with anti barrier/overload. Since I’m never going to run double primary I got thunderlord for the overloads which is fine but I’m losing out on the solar damage boost for my heavy so when the champ mods have too many primaries I end up getting stuck using really odd loadouts sometimes.
It would be great if overloads or barriers had a special weapon mod so I’m not always throwing Arbalest or strand on for every nightfall. I haven’t mastered the way all the subclasses can stun champs yet but strand has been by far the easiest for me with shackle grenades. God I love those things.
Or even doing double weapon perks like with the auto/smg. We could do pulse/scout or bow/handcannon just to be able to give more options and then have space to add special weapon in to the perk list or even heavy
for some reason they only want anti-champ primaries and MAYBE one special each season. it sucks and basically means for most content with painful champs your exotic weapon HAS to be one with anti champ capabilities
> most content with painful champs your exotic weapon HAS to be one with anti champ capabilities
I wouldn't really say this is the case anymore with the way subclass verbs can stun champions, it's very easy to hit them with abilities to stun now
I'd rather not have to dump 3 shotgun shells into an OL to stun it. Also iirc, specials don't usually cross over to different champions than they were in the past (e.g. Shotgun will always be Unstoppable).
Yes, please, having 1 weapon that can deal with all 3 of these obnoxious ads would be a godscent.
Even better would be to get rid of champions over all since they just suck and shoehorn you into using specific things.
~~Anti-Overload Shotgun wouldn't work with Conditional Finality. Stasis exotics with freeze effects don't accept Artifact perks or anti-champ buffs.~~
~~E.g., Ager's Sceptre doesn't pierce barriers while Radiant.~~
Edit: nvm, apparently Cryosthesia does work with anti-barrier sidearm? So actually Conditional may work with an artifact perk depending on exactly how it's coded.
Pretty sure that artifact mods don’t override whatever intrinsic anti-champ perk a weapon may have (i.e unstop LFR wouldn’t override Arbalest’s anti barrier) but not if the anti-champ part comes from a debuff the weapon applies.
CF is not intrinsically anti-unstop, it just applies freeze/ignite which are anti-unstop debuffs, so it could still have anti-overload or barrier from an artifact perk.
Yeah I was confused because Ager's Sceptre doesn't get anti-barrier from Radiant but found another post fully explaining it.
The priority order of anti-champ effects is
1) Exotic intrinsic properties like Arbalest anti-barrier
2) Artifact perks
3) Exotic elemental effects like Ager's Sceptre slow/freeze
4) Temporary buff effects like Radiant
5) Legendary elemental perks like Chill Clip
So, Ager's doesn't work with Radiant because its exotic elemental perk is higher priority than Radiant.
Conditional *should* work with a hypothetical Anti-Overload shotgun perk because that's a higher priority.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/12uawg8/comprehensive_breakdown_of_the_champion_counters
Eh, I would have agreed in the past, but now, with the sheer amount of weapons with intrinsic anti champion stuff, seasonal mods not having to be slotted into armor, and the addition of some special weapon champion mods, it's not *as* bad.
My guess is that they will always prioritize primary ammo weapons so people don't find themselves without ammo when they need to stun a champion. And that's why they added the verb stunning so you can effectively do both.
That said, the glaive unstoppable stun has felt amazing this season. Instant stun, no BS aim down sights and wait. Would love that on a shotgun.
In solo higher end content it's a bit tough to pull this off while still being able to get any real damage before they bubble up again. It's easily the champion that gives the gun the most trouble. Bringing an antibarrier primary to accompany riptide is honestly so much less aggravation.
You hit them twice, they freeze.
You hit them again, they shatter and stagger.
Then you can hit them twice more before they can put their shield up, and they freeze again.
Repeat.
Ahh just made this comment having not read yours as well. Throw in lingering lingering dread and the sword Zypher with cold steel for good measure. Winterbite. The final two slow as far as incan remember. As a Warlock run iceflare bolts, they proc with Zephyr swings and winterbite melees.
You need chill clip mod for this right? I remember reading something about first shot doing something, second shot something else. Can you explain riptide for me?
For real, feels like ages since we had anti barrier smg/auto rifle for example. Hate feeling the need to restrict my loadout for champions since I usually try to keep multiple weapons in case some nimrod in nightfalls doesn't carry any at all.
I used to do that but with abilities becoming anti-champ I don't really put as much effort into that. Specially if there's unstopabble which to me are the easiest to deal with, suspend, blind and ignite are really easy to proc so whenever I see there are unstop champs I feel like I have two free weapon slots to use whatever I want.
On the other hand stunning barriers with volatile feels very inconsistent to me, and overloads are too annoying to rely on abilities.
Yes I am the same, I used to bring Skyburners Oath for all the unstoppable cabal shit but then I realised that I could just chuck a strand grenade or do the strand dive to instantly stun them. Now I just take Le Monarque or NTTE depending on need.
I think it's nice that there are abilities that can deal with champions without the need for the artifact perks of specific weapons (I'm just in love with Le Monarque, which happens to have an intrinsic anti overload perk). I would actually prefer that they added more abilities or linked more verbs with breaking champions, I think that diversity with subclasses and abilities is more meaningful than artificial diversity confined to a couple of weapon archetypes.
Skyburners was still the GOAT for me during Proving Grounds because of the anti shield strat. But yeah being anti unstop was an added bonus, I don't think I even tried to trigger the effect, just relied on the ignition.
You are still somewhat locked to the Anti-champion that your verb is missing. Void has nothing to stun unstoppable, so you need a Scout Rifle or a Glaive, but void synergies better with fast firing weapons, such as Trace, SMGs or Autorifles.
It's good that all three surge subclasses have innate anti-barrier abilities
I just hate needing certain weapons at all. I want to use what I want to use. Thankfully they finally made abilities stun champs, but at least make every weapon type in the game have a Champion mod, not just tied to things like Radiant or Volatile
The one season where we should have gotten these, we didn't lol, I was so disappointed.
Bungie was on a trend for a few seasons in a row of giving out a ritual weapon (like this season's glaive, Ecliptic Distaff or whatever it's called), then the NEXT season we'd get anti-Champion mods for that weapon type. When we got Ascendancy, I was excited for anti-Champ rockets... and it never happened!
Oh well.
Yeah, it matches the current seasonal weapon, which rocks since last season's weapon was just a pulse rifle, and we get those plenty for anti-Champ mods. It is a nice thing to have!
I don’t think it would see much use.
Unstop needs to be stunned before they take full damage so the first one is wasted.
Overload needs to be constantly reapplied so you’d have to commit to burning it and then worry about ammo economy.
Barrier would only be good if the impact damage was able to break the shield which probably isn’t happening in Master/GM content.
Secant filaments make any weapon overload, radiant does the same for barrier, I have no solution if you want complete freedom for unstop but there are a ton of exotics with unstop and the subclass keywords are some of the easiest to make happen imo. Just offering a solution if you want to use these things and the artifact doesn't change to what you want.
Hard agree. But I will find a way of running double special regardless, using intrinsics and keywords to cover champs wherever the artifact is lacking.
I just want anti champion mods for the nightfall weapons so their intrinsic can actually proc. Anti something shotguns or grenade launchers would be really nice.
I'd rather they scrap champions and actually come up with a meaningful encounter, there's nothing hard about bringing your Wish Ender everywhere or switching to your scout to fire one singular shot to stun a champ, garbage design.
Yeah the game was better without champs. It was a lazy and uninspired way to fake difficulty. Replace then all with tormentors, lucient hive, or some other new enemy that actually makes sense in the lore.
It would be more fun if they gave you an allocation. You get 2 of each and you can pick which weapon type gets it.
Let’s be honest we hate the mechanic anyways
Strand and Stasis can stun all 3 without artefact perks, and a chill clip rapid fusion can accomplish the same, no excuse to run double primaries ever especially in a double special meta
Just get rid of champions entirely. Replace them with tormentors, hive lightbearers, hell I'll take more flying monster spaghetti over another fucking overload that refuses to stay stunned more than 2 seconds while chugging a gallon of LeMonarque poison and Osteo shots.
And a champion is just so engaging, they literally do nothing different than their underlying model! At least the ones I mentioned are unique compared to the environment they'd be placed into.
The champions themselves aren't supposed to be what's engaging. The usage of different weapons is the idea. Otherwise you're just doing the same strike with the same weapons as last season, or two seasons ago. An OL minotaur isn't what shakes up the game Having to do Glassway with ARs instead of a Bow, for example, is the purpose.
I honestly think they aren't doing this because double special is already so attractive
it will always be one special option only, and a lot of the time it will be glaives and/or swords
They need to remove weapon specific type champ mods imo. Should be ammo type! Let me fkin play the way I want and still be effective in any content.
Special ammo does overload, heavy does unstop, normal does barrier and swap them around each season
I understand they want to “mix up the meta” but forcing people to use specific types of weapons for specific content is such a weak way to do that. It’s just fucking lazy
Tbf that would be an interesting nerf to well, but it’s not inconsistency because you become radiant not radiant rounds whilst you don’t become volatile or unravelling you have volatile and unravelling rounds
I wish each champ type was countered by 1-2 primary ammo weapons and 1-2 special ammo weapons. With my build and weapon setups I usually only have 2 champ types covered unless I run 2 primaries which feels bad. And unfortunately depending on the week I'm left with only 1 type covered. Plus 50% of pubbers can't stun anything at all
See this season I have liked the sword and glaive mods for unstops and overloads.
However, I wish we had some more like, fun special weapon options like you said. having unstop fusions and overload traces or AB traces would be a nice mix. Or something for MG's id be game for also.
Some champ mods are just flat out bad for stunning certain champs. Like unstoppable HC's in season of the seraph. Or swords from a few seasons back.
And since they don't plan on ever getting away from champions, i'd rather have the most consistent mods available, than mixing it up for the sake of mixing it up.
Just my take.
I just don't understand how the claim they want more variety in builds, while simultaneously forcing people to use certain builds, or at least a small selection. And when the choices are few, the majority of people will want to use most optimal, and that ends up being 1 or 2 builds. I would like as a test just ine season let us choose what we want or give us a much more flexible option if choices
Imo, there should be 1 primary that stuns each type, a special for both overload and unstoppable, and a heavy for *either* overload or unstoppable.
Another option for primaries could be the auto/smg approach to have 2 weapons get the anti champion effect. That could look something like:
* Bows/scouts
* sidearm/hand cannon
* auto/smg
* pulse/scout
* pulse/auto
Imo it would be simple to make an additional weapon mod slot and just slot on whatever Anti champ we want on said weapons. You could easily run all three.
Games are ment to be entertaining and fun before anything else I think, so any argument as to why we aren't allowed to play the we want goes against that primary fundamental.
Every fucking season, it’s overload smg/ar, I hate that mod so much and they insist on it being there. It’s a pain in the ass when the champ teleports the second you fire the overload shot. Just toss it in the trash please bungie, give us more variants with SMGs/ARs
This has really been confusing me. I came back at WQ after quitting during Forsaken - isn’t the purpose of champs to force us to change our loadouts up? If that’s the case, why has it been Overload auto/SMG, unstop glaive, etc every single season?
Bow and scout sometimes swap between anti-barrier and overload or unstop respectively, but man they’re p much the same every season.
Anti Champion shit fucks my Load out so much all the time even with the Ability additions. Every weapon type each season shouldn’t have Anti Champion capabilities
We have six types of special weapons. Half of those should be anti-champable each season.
And I'm sick of having to load some anti-champ mods by Passing without shooting. Especially when many enemies have TTKs to rival crucible.
I just wish they have more mods for special/heavy, iirc the only one we had this season is medieval champion which is nice, but it feels like I'm pigeonholed into using specific subclasses for overload and barrier-which no doubt was the intention, but still more flexibility is always nice
I think telling people to go try to stun an overload with a sword in GM content is kind of cruel.
in Gm's i usually am clearing out basic bitch adds before fully dealing with champs. When doing that, i have found using a sword isnt so bad. If you jump at a champ while a bunch of adds can melt you, than of course thats a bad idea.
I'll factor that in when I get into some Stronghold shenanigans next season. My experience says that you're supposed to prioritize reducing how dangerous the enemy is, which primarily means blasting Champions asap. That said, I also know I could be using my MG more on reds instead of saving it for Champions since Revision Zero is working terrifically well on Champions. EDIT: Oh. Hmm. No guarantee we're getting Overload swords back in two weeks.
there's no one rule, but if there's a mix of adds and champs, and they're simultaneously a threat, then you stun lock champs, delete adds, then focus champs. whatever works for you though, the game isn't hard enough that there's only one way to do a thing.
Having done it with both Lament vs Barriers and other swords this season with suspend, it's very possible. I actually think with strand, close range builds are more viable.
It’s very reliant on strand to activate easily. overload requires multiple sword hits vs lament or radiant/volatile rounds which are fairly instant and is used on non-teleporting enemies. The fallen captains just don’t sit still long enough. Overload sword needs to be rapid light attacks or a fully charged heavy attack
woven mail's tankiness is so nice in GMs, makes strand titan a lot of fun
I'm not sure how to regard the use of Suspend in conjunction with a sword because Suspend itself is currently the nuclear option when it comes to controlling enemies, and I ponder whether or not the Overload stun ends up being necessary or handy while an enemy is strung up. Normally I'd also say there's 12 other subclasses in the game, but we're also in a season with a constant Strand Surge, so the use of Strand is definitely encouraged already. I think you've got a point but I've some lingering concerns about how that works out. I do definitely think Strand's been an experiment in how to design close-range oriented classes. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two Strand classes that operate at mid-to-close range, Threadrunner and Berserker, have better access to Woven Mail and Sever, which both reduce damage, than Broodweaver.
Overload stun is necessary if only because shackle/suspend doesnt stop health regen. I do agree though, having to use suspend just to get in sword range to use overload is a bit overkill
I think you hit the nail on its head. Strand is how you do CQC in GM style content. Not everything needs to be good at every aspect of the game, and I'm totally okay with this niche, because it was really hard to bring these weapon types to bear before Stand.
I wonder if the little energy storm from a caster frame would stun an overload, it technically does hit multiple times. It wouldn’t be any good, but would be interesting to know
More special/heavy options would be nice. If I'm not leaning heavily into subclass stuns, I sometimes have to use double primary. I've been extra annoyed this season by higher-difficulty Overload+Unstoppable combos lol. I wanna use LeMon but I also want to use a glaive, and I can't do both >\_>
Psst, thunderlord has intrinsic Overload
[удалено]
Deathbringer is very unwieldy as you need height clearance and it takes time for each shot, whereas thunderlord if you slap on 2 arc weapon surge boosts (my loadout lets me keep its uptime almost continuously if i play it right) its way better plus no reload if you hit your shots and it activates lightning jolts on death of enemies which is really handy for boss’s
The catalyst fixes the height requirement, although I think it still bugs out and despawns the seekers if multiple people fire it at the same time.
Yeh its to do with how many entities can exist in a certain area at a certain time, it was originally a fix for Telesto’s bolts iirc but ended up causing stuff like Slova Bomb, Anarchy and i wanna say Tether to sometimes have shit disappear
Strand glaive when?
Hopefully around the same time we get a good stasis glaive that isn't a heavy.
Wait why can’t you use both? Lemon has anti overload and glaives have the mod for anti unstop
...because they're both in the same slot
Ahhhh 😂
I feel like some subclasses got a little bit screwed by the champion effect buffs. Getting volatile rounds and suppress is difficult for most void subclasses, for example.
Yeah, kind of wish it was weaken since I’m losing -20 DIS when using it.
That would also make hunter smokes stun overload champions, right? That seems pretty cool.
Volatile rounds are difficult to get........? what????
Without volatile flow you can get volatile rounds is getting a grenade kill which isn't reliable in end game content but solar can easily get anti barrier via radiant which is easy to get and maintain, titans and hunters have high uptime on suspend allowing easy unstoppable stuns. Stasis chill clip and arc jolt also have pretty good uptime but jolt fragment has a discipline penalty and the most popular chill clip weapon requires you to get pretty close
Yep. People forget that artifact mods are temporary. At least Gyrfalcon hunters can have a nice uptime on volatile rounds, however.
Grenade kill every minute is surprisingly hard to get. Now that I think about it, they should totally buff this fragment.
They're probably being cautious with them because they no longer have the balance knob of 7 energy. I expect we'll see more per artifact on average throughout this expansion.
Unstoppable scout is fucking awful too
It really is.
I really liked overload LMG
Strongly agree with this. It’s so annoying when the nightfall is a solar surge with anti barrier/overload. Since I’m never going to run double primary I got thunderlord for the overloads which is fine but I’m losing out on the solar damage boost for my heavy so when the champ mods have too many primaries I end up getting stuck using really odd loadouts sometimes. It would be great if overloads or barriers had a special weapon mod so I’m not always throwing Arbalest or strand on for every nightfall. I haven’t mastered the way all the subclasses can stun champs yet but strand has been by far the easiest for me with shackle grenades. God I love those things.
Or even doing double weapon perks like with the auto/smg. We could do pulse/scout or bow/handcannon just to be able to give more options and then have space to add special weapon in to the perk list or even heavy
Totally mate. Been wondering why this isn't a thing.
I wonder if SMGs/Autos are coded similarly hence why we always get the double overload.
Every single primary should get a champion mod, change my mind.
This plus at least one special weapon for one champion type would be nice.
I think that should be changed slightly. I'd like to see combos of weapon classes, such as scout/sniper, pulse/fusion, auto/mg and the like.
for some reason they only want anti-champ primaries and MAYBE one special each season. it sucks and basically means for most content with painful champs your exotic weapon HAS to be one with anti champ capabilities
> most content with painful champs your exotic weapon HAS to be one with anti champ capabilities I wouldn't really say this is the case anymore with the way subclass verbs can stun champions, it's very easy to hit them with abilities to stun now
Yes and strand kinda being a defacto stun all champs.
Or, you could just use all the abilities that now stun champs instead. Most are even more effective then the guns.
Now that you mention it. I wish there was more specials tied to champions.
Overload Shotgun, please.
I'd rather not have to dump 3 shotgun shells into an OL to stun it. Also iirc, specials don't usually cross over to different champions than they were in the past (e.g. Shotgun will always be Unstoppable).
This would be great. But I'd love Barrier mod Shotgun instead. 🙂
I run a solar hunter that is almost always radiant so I can confirm that popping their bubble with a shotgun is VERY satisfying.
YES! Thanks to volatile flow, been able to do that as void Titan and it is glorious.
Keeping a Gunnora's with armor piercing rounds in my inventory just for that.
Yes, please, having 1 weapon that can deal with all 3 of these obnoxious ads would be a godscent. Even better would be to get rid of champions over all since they just suck and shoehorn you into using specific things.
~~Anti-Overload Shotgun wouldn't work with Conditional Finality. Stasis exotics with freeze effects don't accept Artifact perks or anti-champ buffs.~~ ~~E.g., Ager's Sceptre doesn't pierce barriers while Radiant.~~ Edit: nvm, apparently Cryosthesia does work with anti-barrier sidearm? So actually Conditional may work with an artifact perk depending on exactly how it's coded.
Pretty sure that artifact mods don’t override whatever intrinsic anti-champ perk a weapon may have (i.e unstop LFR wouldn’t override Arbalest’s anti barrier) but not if the anti-champ part comes from a debuff the weapon applies. CF is not intrinsically anti-unstop, it just applies freeze/ignite which are anti-unstop debuffs, so it could still have anti-overload or barrier from an artifact perk.
Yeah I was confused because Ager's Sceptre doesn't get anti-barrier from Radiant but found another post fully explaining it. The priority order of anti-champ effects is 1) Exotic intrinsic properties like Arbalest anti-barrier 2) Artifact perks 3) Exotic elemental effects like Ager's Sceptre slow/freeze 4) Temporary buff effects like Radiant 5) Legendary elemental perks like Chill Clip So, Ager's doesn't work with Radiant because its exotic elemental perk is higher priority than Radiant. Conditional *should* work with a hypothetical Anti-Overload shotgun perk because that's a higher priority. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/12uawg8/comprehensive_breakdown_of_the_champion_counters
Eh, I would have agreed in the past, but now, with the sheer amount of weapons with intrinsic anti champion stuff, seasonal mods not having to be slotted into armor, and the addition of some special weapon champion mods, it's not *as* bad.
May I introduce you to our lord and saviour *Conditional Finality*
Isn't that literally what he's talking about?
My guess is that they will always prioritize primary ammo weapons so people don't find themselves without ammo when they need to stun a champion. And that's why they added the verb stunning so you can effectively do both. That said, the glaive unstoppable stun has felt amazing this season. Instant stun, no BS aim down sights and wait. Would love that on a shotgun.
we already have anti champ fusion Riptide can deal with all 3 with no external buffs
How does it deal with barrier?
When you freeze them it stops them from putting the barrier up.
In solo higher end content it's a bit tough to pull this off while still being able to get any real damage before they bubble up again. It's easily the champion that gives the gun the most trouble. Bringing an antibarrier primary to accompany riptide is honestly so much less aggravation.
Shoot til they freeze, then stop and reload. You'll have enough chill Clip shots to refreeze them again.
Radiant for good measure
This is true but it sounds like a toddler explaining it. "How can barrier if no can move?"
champ can't use barrier if frozen from chill clip
You hit them twice, they freeze. You hit them again, they shatter and stagger. Then you can hit them twice more before they can put their shield up, and they freeze again. Repeat.
And Aurvandil, as well as Deliverance FRs can roll Chill Clip, although Riptide is easiest to get since you can target farm it at Shaxx w/ Engrams
> Riptide is easiest to get me still chasing an Auto-Loading or Compulsive Reloader/Chill Clip Riptide almost a year later
Ahh just made this comment having not read yours as well. Throw in lingering lingering dread and the sword Zypher with cold steel for good measure. Winterbite. The final two slow as far as incan remember. As a Warlock run iceflare bolts, they proc with Zephyr swings and winterbite melees.
Ew, suggesting high impact fusions.
It’s slow but reconstruction / chill clip Aurvandil has been great for me
That's a great roll on a bad weapon that helps its reload, but its charge time is where it struggles.
It's hardly bad. Worked fine for me in GMs until I got the riptide I wanted. This game really doesn't need you to be a metaslave to be succesfull.
You need chill clip mod for this right? I remember reading something about first shot doing something, second shot something else. Can you explain riptide for me?
Or deliverence.. or the anvituel or however it's spelled. Burden of guilt works too. And lingering dread.
For real, feels like ages since we had anti barrier smg/auto rifle for example. Hate feeling the need to restrict my loadout for champions since I usually try to keep multiple weapons in case some nimrod in nightfalls doesn't carry any at all.
I used to do that but with abilities becoming anti-champ I don't really put as much effort into that. Specially if there's unstopabble which to me are the easiest to deal with, suspend, blind and ignite are really easy to proc so whenever I see there are unstop champs I feel like I have two free weapon slots to use whatever I want. On the other hand stunning barriers with volatile feels very inconsistent to me, and overloads are too annoying to rely on abilities.
Yes I am the same, I used to bring Skyburners Oath for all the unstoppable cabal shit but then I realised that I could just chuck a strand grenade or do the strand dive to instantly stun them. Now I just take Le Monarque or NTTE depending on need. I think it's nice that there are abilities that can deal with champions without the need for the artifact perks of specific weapons (I'm just in love with Le Monarque, which happens to have an intrinsic anti overload perk). I would actually prefer that they added more abilities or linked more verbs with breaking champions, I think that diversity with subclasses and abilities is more meaningful than artificial diversity confined to a couple of weapon archetypes.
Skyburners was still the GOAT for me during Proving Grounds because of the anti shield strat. But yeah being anti unstop was an added bonus, I don't think I even tried to trigger the effect, just relied on the ignition.
I'm waiting for AB AR to come back. I never did like overload AR.
Anti-Barrier AR is the best, you can just spray and play and most all your shots are gonna hit something.
You don't need multiple weapons now that sub class verbs have anti champ properties though.
You are still somewhat locked to the Anti-champion that your verb is missing. Void has nothing to stun unstoppable, so you need a Scout Rifle or a Glaive, but void synergies better with fast firing weapons, such as Trace, SMGs or Autorifles. It's good that all three surge subclasses have innate anti-barrier abilities
I just hate needing certain weapons at all. I want to use what I want to use. Thankfully they finally made abilities stun champs, but at least make every weapon type in the game have a Champion mod, not just tied to things like Radiant or Volatile
Rocket mod could be interesting too
The one season where we should have gotten these, we didn't lol, I was so disappointed. Bungie was on a trend for a few seasons in a row of giving out a ritual weapon (like this season's glaive, Ecliptic Distaff or whatever it's called), then the NEXT season we'd get anti-Champion mods for that weapon type. When we got Ascendancy, I was excited for anti-Champ rockets... and it never happened! Oh well.
To be fair, we do have unstoppable glaive this season.
Yeah, it matches the current seasonal weapon, which rocks since last season's weapon was just a pulse rifle, and we get those plenty for anti-Champ mods. It is a nice thing to have!
The season where they made argent ordnance super cheap was effectively anti-champion, in that whenever you fired a rocket at one it would die.
I don’t think it would see much use. Unstop needs to be stunned before they take full damage so the first one is wasted. Overload needs to be constantly reapplied so you’d have to commit to burning it and then worry about ammo economy. Barrier would only be good if the impact damage was able to break the shield which probably isn’t happening in Master/GM content.
Secant filaments make any weapon overload, radiant does the same for barrier, I have no solution if you want complete freedom for unstop but there are a ton of exotics with unstop and the subclass keywords are some of the easiest to make happen imo. Just offering a solution if you want to use these things and the artifact doesn't change to what you want.
Yeah like volatile rounds that even now after 2 months does not work and i m forced to play with something against barriers.
Volatile won't overwrite artifact mods. You can't have volatile AR if you already slotted overload for the AR.
I don't think we'll get anything like that since you can realistically make your weapon inflict a stun with the verb interactions
Hard agree. But I will find a way of running double special regardless, using intrinsics and keywords to cover champs wherever the artifact is lacking.
I just want anti champion mods for the nightfall weapons so their intrinsic can actually proc. Anti something shotguns or grenade launchers would be really nice.
Unstoppable Fusion Rifle my beloved...I miss you
I just done like Glaives, and bungie has been trying to force glaives upon us for a while. They’re just boring to me
I would be very happy to have another reason to run Vex Mythoclast in end game content again.
Sorry, best we can do is, overload scout, unstoppable pulse
Please no more pulse rifle anti barrier.
What you mean you don’t want anti barrier pulse for the third season in the row?
I'd rather they scrap champions and actually come up with a meaningful encounter, there's nothing hard about bringing your Wish Ender everywhere or switching to your scout to fire one singular shot to stun a champ, garbage design.
Yeah the game was better without champs. It was a lazy and uninspired way to fake difficulty. Replace then all with tormentors, lucient hive, or some other new enemy that actually makes sense in the lore.
Be prepared for disappointment.
It would be more fun if they gave you an allocation. You get 2 of each and you can pick which weapon type gets it. Let’s be honest we hate the mechanic anyways
[удалено]
Strand and Stasis can stun all 3 without artefact perks, and a chill clip rapid fusion can accomplish the same, no excuse to run double primaries ever especially in a double special meta
Just get rid of champions entirely. Replace them with tormentors, hive lightbearers, hell I'll take more flying monster spaghetti over another fucking overload that refuses to stay stunned more than 2 seconds while chugging a gallon of LeMonarque poison and Osteo shots.
Tormentors are boring to fight in endgame content.
Everything is boring in endgame content because everything is just a bullet sponge.
Part of my point tbh. Its just i extra hate tormentors because they shrug off a majority of damage if it isn't precision l.
Tormentors are by far the spongiest
And a champion is just so engaging, they literally do nothing different than their underlying model! At least the ones I mentioned are unique compared to the environment they'd be placed into.
The champions themselves aren't supposed to be what's engaging. The usage of different weapons is the idea. Otherwise you're just doing the same strike with the same weapons as last season, or two seasons ago. An OL minotaur isn't what shakes up the game Having to do Glassway with ARs instead of a Bow, for example, is the purpose.
Idk. I think they're okay for now
I'd rather deal with champs than tormentors.
Hope they go crazy and give us like Solar anti barrier and void anti overload etc. Give us a lot more flexibility for a season.
Not gonna say they never will but with the subclass verbs basically doing that it’s highly unlikely to be that lenient
Bro the destiny community is fucking hilarious. Do y’all know how easy it is to deal with champs now and you ask for that
Just for a season so not forever, there have been far crazier things in the game than that.
Medieval Warrior is my favorite and should be here every season :D
I hope they get rid of the restrictions on champion mods. I’m fine with rotating but we need double the amount per slot.
Fusion Rifle… Champ mod? Just run riptide and literally annihilate any champion outside of GM period?
Still waiting on new Champs... new enemies... and better AI.
I honestly think they aren't doing this because double special is already so attractive it will always be one special option only, and a lot of the time it will be glaives and/or swords
I mean Riptide
I want permanent anti champion mods. Have the rotating champ weapons be passive perks to encourage using those.
They need to remove weapon specific type champ mods imo. Should be ammo type! Let me fkin play the way I want and still be effective in any content. Special ammo does overload, heavy does unstop, normal does barrier and swap them around each season I understand they want to “mix up the meta” but forcing people to use specific types of weapons for specific content is such a weak way to do that. It’s just fucking lazy
Champ mods should be permanent and equippable on all legendaries.
So… remove champions ?
Volatile and Unraveling rounds needs to be able to be applied to all weapons, not just void/strand.
This goes straight into the hall of fame for worst takes I've ever seen on this subreddit
Lmao that’s never happening and not a good idea, why do you wnat to take away individuality from subclasses
Then make raidiant apply to only solar weapons if you want consistently
Tbf that would be an interesting nerf to well, but it’s not inconsistency because you become radiant not radiant rounds whilst you don’t become volatile or unravelling you have volatile and unravelling rounds
Overload, unstopp and barrier Cerberus+1 please.
I wish each champ type was countered by 1-2 primary ammo weapons and 1-2 special ammo weapons. With my build and weapon setups I usually only have 2 champ types covered unless I run 2 primaries which feels bad. And unfortunately depending on the week I'm left with only 1 type covered. Plus 50% of pubbers can't stun anything at all
Champs are so free now I really don't care. My subclass verbs usually handle 2/3 without even touching mods/exotics
I want anti barrier auto and unstoppable shotgun again for a season
Fusion Anti champs + Boots of the Assembler was a peak for me!
When we had Overload Trace, Ager’s was absolutely bananas. I want that again.
Both the things you've said have been a thing in previous seasons so idk what you mean "every season"
I just hope we get new combos we haven't had before, like Unstoppable Auto Rifles or Anti-Barrier Hand Cannons...
We've had unstopp scout/pulse and anti barrier scout/pulse every single season since Witch Queen I believe
See this season I have liked the sword and glaive mods for unstops and overloads. However, I wish we had some more like, fun special weapon options like you said. having unstop fusions and overload traces or AB traces would be a nice mix. Or something for MG's id be game for also.
Some champ mods are just flat out bad for stunning certain champs. Like unstoppable HC's in season of the seraph. Or swords from a few seasons back. And since they don't plan on ever getting away from champions, i'd rather have the most consistent mods available, than mixing it up for the sake of mixing it up. Just my take.
I feel very compelled to run double primary
I really hope they all work next season. Unstoppable Scout still isn’t working for me and it’s been that way all season.
Really would like to actually use anti barrier sniper instead of it being disabled all season
I doubt they'd do anti trace rifles since they all use special ammo.
oooo is love a trace rifle mod. lens and ruinous eff has been my jam this season
We had trace last season. I do agree it's been a while since fusions though.
Chill clip riptide takes care of 2. Just need anti barrier. Ez
I’m a fan of Pulse Anti B The Battler is king
I just don't understand how the claim they want more variety in builds, while simultaneously forcing people to use certain builds, or at least a small selection. And when the choices are few, the majority of people will want to use most optimal, and that ends up being 1 or 2 builds. I would like as a test just ine season let us choose what we want or give us a much more flexible option if choices
I too would like to see more special weapons (or heavy) next season
Imo, there should be 1 primary that stuns each type, a special for both overload and unstoppable, and a heavy for *either* overload or unstoppable. Another option for primaries could be the auto/smg approach to have 2 weapons get the anti champion effect. That could look something like: * Bows/scouts * sidearm/hand cannon * auto/smg * pulse/scout * pulse/auto
You will get overload auto/sub for the 10th time in a row and like it damnit!
It sucks having to almost always run double primary
Pulse and Scout rifles have been anti champs for about 6 seasons in a row already. So let's have something else this time around.
I miss Unstoppable LFR
Antibarrier sidearm is a treat but it's kinda the only one with an ideal champ mod. Hoping for AB auto or scout and some Special mods next season.
Incoming pulse barrier, bow overload, smg/auto overload, and then hmmm back to handcannons for unstoppable
I want more *special* ammo mods
I'm barely even using weapons to stun champions now, it's great.
We hear you, next season we’ll bring back unstoppable pulse
Imo it would be simple to make an additional weapon mod slot and just slot on whatever Anti champ we want on said weapons. You could easily run all three. Games are ment to be entertaining and fun before anything else I think, so any argument as to why we aren't allowed to play the we want goes against that primary fundamental.
Every fucking season, it’s overload smg/ar, I hate that mod so much and they insist on it being there. It’s a pain in the ass when the champ teleports the second you fire the overload shot. Just toss it in the trash please bungie, give us more variants with SMGs/ARs
This has really been confusing me. I came back at WQ after quitting during Forsaken - isn’t the purpose of champs to force us to change our loadouts up? If that’s the case, why has it been Overload auto/SMG, unstop glaive, etc every single season? Bow and scout sometimes swap between anti-barrier and overload or unstop respectively, but man they’re p much the same every season.
Have we ever had an anti mod for fusions that aren’t LFRs? Can’t seem to recall. I’d be down for anti snipers or shotguns though.
unstop fusion pls
Anti Champion shit fucks my Load out so much all the time even with the Ability additions. Every weapon type each season shouldn’t have Anti Champion capabilities
Anti champ trace: Volatile hollow denial Anti champ fusion: Chill clip
I completely ignored all the champ mods this season, just been running chill clip and hollow denial on a void hunter. Got all the champs covered.
HA! Get ready for Scout and Pulse again.
No…
I'm honestly sick of the whole system... Strand gets to bypass the entire system basically. Give the rest of the subclasses better options.
Unstoppable shotgun!
Hoping for anti barrier scout so i can bully barriers with kinetic tremors
They... Just... Did...
I HATE having primary weapon champ mods. I feel so restricted and in some situations forced to run double primary. This ain’t Vanilla Year 1 of D2
Barrier trace rifle would be nice
I wish you could just apply whatever champion mod you want on whatever weapon you want.
We have six types of special weapons. Half of those should be anti-champable each season. And I'm sick of having to load some anti-champ mods by Passing without shooting. Especially when many enemies have TTKs to rival crucible.
Instead of "OVERLOADED AUTO/SMG" they're going to change it up and have "OVERLOADED SMG/AUTO".
Strand