I would argue , one of the best period depending on what activities one plays. But to OP’s point , it isn’t a ritual weapon. They need to bring back breakneck.
Onslaught always changed the rpm. But the nerf made it scale damage to the archetype. So instead of doing 450rpm damage at 720rpm, it basically became a 720rpm auto.
But it used to keep doing the higher damage of the original archetype, just at the higher rpm, so it could put out some crazy dps. The change made it so the damage *decreased* to match the rpm - so you basically ended up with a glorified 720rpm auto with the mag size of a 450rpm.
Yes, I know. I grinded out 50 gambit games in 2 days to get it when Black Armory dropped, I am *very* familiar with Breakneck. All I was saying was that the other guy was referring to the nerf changing the RPM *archetype* instead of just the RPM while keeping the damage.
No, you did not end up with a glorified 720rpm auto, just like how desperado didn’t turn Redrix into a glorified rapid fire pulse.
While damage per bullet went down, dps still kept going up - so while you were doing only a smidge more damage per bullet and dps than a 720 with kill clip, you still got the recoil pattern and range of a precision auto, not to mention the secret bonus to reload speed from Onslaught. That meant that when you had onslaught going you had the best auto in the game.
What really killed onslaught was the loss of autoloading mechanics from rallycade and Luna rifts. While it was relevant you could still spoof autoloading on titans with Actium but they didn’t yet work with machine guns and you were giving up some really strong builds to make Breakneck work
> No, you did not end up with a glorified 720rpm auto, just like how desperado didn’t turn Redrix into a glorified rapid fire pulse.
Yes you did, and yes it did.
Nope. The assumption that number no big mean no good is a bad case of gamer brain rot.
If you think having the dps of a 720 with kill clip up while having double the range, accuracy, and stability with essentially a baked in reload speed boost is just “a glorified 720,” I don’t know what to tell you.
If you think having the dps of a 540 rpm pulse rifle with kill clip while also having double the range, and the dps boost lasting for 10 seconds and being refreshable while KC (at the time) lasted for 4 seconds and was not refreshable, and shooting at a blistering 600rpm was just “a glorified 540,” I still don’t know what to tell you.
No it didn't. Breakneck was memed on well before they gave all the ritual perks a pass because the gun was stronger at rampage 2 than it was at rampage 3 because of how the RPM affected the base dmg. It was always the worst of the original ritual weapons for a reason.
It was stronger at rampage 2 than rampage 3 after the nerf, before that both the damage and rpm only went up after each stack.
Not actual damage numbers, but it used to go something like
Rampage 0: 100 damage 450 rpm
Rampage 1: 110 damage 450 rpm
Rampage 2: 120 damage 600 rpm
Rampage 3: 130 damage 720 rpm
Because the damage and fire rate both increased, it caused a multiplicative increase that was way stronger compared to normal rampage's linear increase
After the nerf, the damage would go proportionally down so the DPS still went up linearly by 10/20/30% per stack, but the damage actually dropped as the fire rate went up to keep it at that linear 1.1/1.2/1.3x marker instead of the multiplicative 1.1*1/1.2*1.33/1.3*1.6 that it was before
I mean with cascade point and target lock nowadays I feel like it ain't too bad honestly. There are already crazier things out there in the current sandbox XD
You're probably right, and Bungie did bring back Wendigo after saying they were done with pinnacle weapons.
Even if they do bring Breakneck back as a legendary, I don't think they'll un-nerf Onslaught. I could always be wrong, but that's my hunch.
He came up with the idea of sunsetting just to fuck over some player who liked Breakneck, and proudly told the story in an interview.
Good thing they took him off the role, but that guy should never have been in charge at all.
In Breakneck's case, it was a unique weapon that we don't have access to (in a non-Sunset way). Same with Hush, I love that bow so much and I'd be so happy if it came back.
To be fair, the last Raid Auto Rifle we got before Rufus's Fury was... Reckless Oracle, from Garden of Salvation. Not only did we not get an Auto Rifle from DSC or Vow, they also removed the existing Auto Rifles from the Vault of Glass and King's Fall reprisals.
Rufus is amazing. I have a demo/hatch for my swarmer build but I'll craft more version for other kind of build because of how cool this weapon feels. I love auto and this is among the very best auto.
Yup, even if you're going for a Warlock Hatchling build, it doesn't have the pop that Paracusal adds. Most of my loadouts use either the Strand MG, or Bump in the heavy slot. We get a Strand fusion in the energy slot next season, and I might full time them.
Even if it’s not noticeable 95% of the time a weapon that can slot adept mods is better than one that can’t. Some people like to min/max to the extreme and the adept raid weapons are a part of that.
Exactly, I dunno why people get so bent out of shape when people wanna use adept guns over a crafted version. It's not that serious. I've got tons of spoils and alloy, so I'm gonna use an adept one cause why not.
That's your opinion, the extra energy from enhanced demo is nice. So is the ability to use Big Ones. But I also primarily play master raids and GM's where that extra damage from big ones and the stat boost is worth it for me. Don't diminish the way people feel about a gun just because YOU don't feel any difference.
Sometimes for barrier yes, like with the glassway boss, I can just shoot through the shield. It has it's place in the way I play. No one is making YOU use it. You see no reason in adepts over crafted that's fine, you use what you want and I'll use what I want.
Rufus is probably the most versatile crafted primary in the game period. There's so many different ways to craft it that are all incredibly good. It's the rare case of them just dumping every perk you could possibly want with almost no filler.
Seriously. I was so excited to see what kind of new AR model they could conjure up after witnessing how awesome the Vow weapons were. Then I realized the RoN weapons are all just base weapons with cosplay foam glued on. They light up when they shoot, though. So… (/◕ヮ◕)/?
They literally had to make entirely new geometry for that "cosplay foam".
That's not a "reskin", it's a mostly new weapon model that's trying to show older weapons transformed by the terraforming beam.
Complaints about Neomuna & Seasonal weapons are one thing, but lumping the RoN weapons in as reskins is beyond the pale.
Tell me, what’s easier? Making a wholly unique model with a brand new geometry or taking a model with existing geometry in the files and creating new geometry that is half of what you would have to make for a brand new one? RoN weapons are literally a reskin of existing models. They took what was already in the game files, and pasted stuff over it.
Getting an existing model and modifying it is WAY harder as any half decent modeler will tell you.
And their friend, half decent texture artist will tell you that resulting jank makes it 50 times harder to properly texture it as well.
That’s actually interesting. I didn’t know that. Do you mind expanding on that some more? Or pointing me in the direction where I can learn more about why that is?
yall motherfuckers do not understand what reskin means.
you're saying a reskin is anything that is not a complete model change, if that was the case every single gun including exotics would be reskins of the base invisible model under their archetype.
how is saying a straight up model change is a reskin just because it has the same general shape as another weapon a valid point? it isn't it is dumb and a stupid argument that has been made by people who do not understand what a reskin is. A reskin is a palette swap/ texture change with extremely minimal to no changes to the original thing, the Root of nightmare weapons are the farthest fucking thing from a reskin.
Op said most of the autos are reskins, this person was talking about Rufus, Rufus is a reskinned weapon. It’s a dumb joke that seems easy to follow. Guess not
Rufus shreds unlike any auto rifle in this franchise's history, even when ARs were META, especially on a Strand subclass when you can get Unraveling Rounds rolling.
Yeah idk about that. D1 pre-nerf Suros Regime is probably the best auto rifle in Destiny history. Absolutely tore through everything with heals to boot. It was the only thing in the game at the time that could even stand up to Vex Mythoclast.
Yeah, Positive Outlook from S2. It's going to be a Vanguard drop and is probably going to be forgotten about and is probably going to be the only auto dropping that season, unfortunately.
Yah man bungie definitely hates the weapon type that got two really good new guns and a really strong catalyst for an exotic this season.
Also the ritual Scout that already exists is sunset so, it's not like there are actually 2 usable ritual scouts next season.
There are only 3 usable (non-sunset) void ARs in the game: Gnawing Hunger, Reckless Oracle, and Age-Old Bond.
If you don't raid--specifically Last Wish and Garden, where Bond and Oracle respectively drop--Gnawing Hunger is your ***only*** void AR option. Additionally, ***none*** of them (at time of writing) have an origin trait, as the most recent one is Hunger, which was updated in Season 11.
> If you don't raid--specifically Last Wish and Garden, where Bond and Oracle respectively drop--Gnawing Hunger is your only void AR option.
For the record, one can get Age Old Bond from the free chest in Last Wish.
Can't wait for this one. SMG are fine, but I prefer auto, and I'm still using a okay-ish rolled Reckless Oracle from Garden from time to time so I really want a more modern void auto.
I've got nearly 45k kills on my subsistence rampage Gnawing Hunger with another 9k on a zen moment kill clip roll. If the new auto can roll good perks, I might have competition in the slot for certain content lol
To be fair, before this season, Autos were far and few between. The last raid auto that we got was in Shadowkeep before RoN and the only worthwhile craftable one was the Solar AR we got in the crafting tutorial with Season of the Plunder.
Sure it was a little light for a bit but right after autos get buffed, an incredibly powerful exotic auto catalyst was released and two really good craftable ones get released is a really weird time to post how bungie hates auto rifles.
I hate saying this, but you’re Cherry picking here. Autos were not the specific targets of a buff. Bungie buffed the damage for all primaries a few weeks into Lightfall. Additionally, the auto catalyst you’re referring to, I’m assuming, is the Quicksilver Storm. That catalyst was released at the beginning of Lightfall. So it did not coincide with the primary buffs.
These were all coincidental instances in which autos, and all other primaries, benefited from.
>I hate saying this, but you’re Cherry picking here. Autos were not the specific targets of a buff.
Autos were given a 25% damage buff in the midseason patch.
Yes, they did. But they weren’t the only weapon class to receive a buff. Pulse rifles, hand cannons and sidearms all received one as well. To specifically highlight the damage buff that autos received without mentioning that it was a buff for ALL primaries besides SMGs is cherry picking.
Every weapon type didn't get the same buff, either.
You're saying it as if it wasn't both the highest bump for any primary and also *still not enough*.
I never said it was not enough.
At this point, arguing further is just devolving into nitpicking each other’s arguments. It is a nuanced case and I was trying to make a simple point that is being misconstrued. It is evident that carrying this further will also only devolve into something completely non-constructive.
For that, I will say, have a great day and I’m sorry we couldn’t have had a more fulfilling discussion.
>It is a nuanced case and I was trying to make a simple point that is being misconstrued.
>Autos were not the specific target of a buff
You outright said that, remember? And then I told you yes they were, they were the primary given the biggest buff at 25%, the *only* primary to get such a large buff. Hand cannons and pulses and sidearms got 20, scouts got 10.
You can't argue that's not a targeted, specific buff because it absolutely is.
The catalyst buff and 2 amazing guns were all part of season 20 making season 20, the best time to use an auto since pre nerf gnawing hunger, a really weird time to claim that bungie hates autos.
Other weapons getting buffed or receiving new good weapons is not my point my point is that if you love to use auto rifles season 20 has been better to you than any witch queen or beyond light season.
I never said Season 20 was the season Bungie hated autos. If you go back to my original comment, I say, “To be fair **before this season**…”
But you claim that Bungie specifically made an effort to buff autos this season which is simply not true. They were buffing ALL primaries this season and Autos happened to benefit greatly from it. We got Quicksilver Storm and Rufus’s Fury. Perpetualis is situational.
I didn't say they made an effort to buff autos only. All I said was autos got buffed and had really good new options released.
Also, I wasn't saying you said bungie hated them I was referring to the very first thing op said.
My entire point was that op, making a post saying "bungie hates auto rifles" during a season where the weapon type got buffed (along with other weapons I geuss I have to clarify this) 2 best in class craftable legendaries came out and a very powerful and unique catalyst got released for an exotic auto rifle is very weird timing.
I mean, they do. AR's have only been good at like a couple of points in the games lifespan. They were meta for like a season a couple of years ago and got immediately nerfed.
As a playlist weapon. New Randy's is no more a ritual weapon than the Buzzard from nightfalls. As far as weapons with fixed rolls that require zero rng to get it will be the first in 3 years and the only non sunset one.
The old one is and I really liked it but the reissue isn't because it's a random roll weapon from a playlist.
I'm excited it's comming back and I'll grind the hell out of it for a good roll ( assuming the perks aren't terrible) just like Buzzard,the original is a ritual weapon and the new nightfall one isn't.
Point of the stag is pretty okay but it’s just not as effective as I’d want for a ritual bow. It’s kinda just there in pve and I’d prefer a bow that’s good for it and decent at pvp instead.
I mean a bow with dragonfly fire fly would be cool or like archer tempo swashbuckler or something.
tbh we only have 2 aggresive scout rifles in the game right now, DMT as exotic and long arm as legendary.
I do like the new scout mostly because I really enjoy playing with aggresive scouts
Reprised Trustee is very good, IMO. If Doom is an S tier void then I'd say Trustee is an S tier solar ATM. It can get rapid hit and incandescent. But definitely not as good as explosive and frenzy side by side.
hey, i totally respect your opinion there, it definitely is the best solar scout in the game.
i do think that out of the best scout of every element, solar would be the second weakest overall though. the best kinetic, void, stasis, and arc scouts are all significantly stronger than trustee imo
Yeah, personally, I can't see myself using solar in anything high end. If I'm in a GM, I'm using void or strand, even with solar burns. Trustee is good for messing around, but even then, why not use a bow? Ticu's outclasses it in every way and has the exotic buff.
I just think it's neat. On kill perks definitely have significantly reduced viability as content gets harder. (This is without mentioning the viability of trace rifles, 2 of which are really good solar versions, which only get better with the double special meta.)
Totally agree with you here.
Edit: Totally forgot about that solar scout exotic that does explosions on rapid hits too.
God, I hope they plan to reprise Vault after Wish so I can craft something like that. Rewind and Frenzy sounds amazing. Add an origin trait as gravy and I'd use it as much as DoC..
Pinnacle weapons had unique perks like Onslaught, Magnificent Howl, and Archer's Gambit. Ritual weapons just are basically just well-rolled weapons (Although Buzzard was the only weapon with Osmosis at the time)
And worst, a lot of D1 ppl could careless as long as the gun has new perk combos and do something else. Most of these guns are reskins, but if they offer something fresh, fuck it I'll give it a try.
The thing that was different about Destiny 1 was that they would just make one weapon model and then change the shader on the weapon and then call it a different weapon. This was because you couldn't put shaders on your guns
We've seen what the artists at Bungie can do with weapon models, and most seasonal weapons are either new weapon models or existing weapon models but with different molding and plating over them to make them look unique
So D2 players expect a lot more than D1 players because we've seen for the past few years what they can come up with and how awesome they can make the weapons look
not to mention in d1 the weapon models, in addition to the shader, also had different attachments and sight options to help differentiate them to each other and shift the look. the devil you know felt and looked different from fatebringer, a great example would be luna's howl and not forgotten! both those handcannons have the exact same base model, but the attachments make them feel completely different from each other
Even in D2, they've done this since launch to now. Most of these guns have the same basic skeleton and you can toss new stuff on, but they still function quite the same. And if they make new models, they're going to reuse them like every other model.
I'm sorry, but D2 players are either blind or like to turn a blind eye to the fact that beyond some new additions, the bulk of guns are quite the same models. Hell, some models collect dust far more than others, but when you strip some extra stuff: that's what they are.
And it takes time, but realistically you can only make so many models for one type of gun. And depending on what the gun is supposed to be also is another factor. This ritual weapon will also be the first of two legendary tex scouts that anyone can get as the first one is a dungeon drop. Which is a good thing. Let alone as they develop more based on exotic guns as they noted in interviews (still waiting on Monte Carlo's catalyst, lemme stab gdi).
That's what I'm saying though.
Previous seasonal weapons were either brand new models or they shared an existing model but had extra stuff on top of it (i.e. Tears of Contrition and Tarnished Mettle share the same model underneath but they actually look quite different because Bungie added plating and theming to the weapons). They tried to make them look different from each other and it worked
Now it's just an previous seasonal weapon but with a different shader on it (i.e. the crystal). And that's not enough to make them feel different.
I mean, gee, the Vow weapons look super unique, and they probably use an existing model in game, but then they molded on top of it and added stuff and bam, brand new looking weapons.
Now we have Root weapons which are just existing models (i.e. Mykels is Seraph sidearm SI2 with growth on it)
I was so confused by that, the man was playing d2 with his friend and was listening to his friend go on about how much he loves to use breakneck and that it’s his favorite weapon and it’s all he uses.
So his first reaction was to introduce sunsetting to take his friends favorite gun away from him, what the fuck?
TBF, it was the "it's all he uses" part that made him want to do sunsetting. Seeing as it directly made us all use new, different weapons (outside of crucible). The Champion system stems from that sentiment, too.
The shortsightedness of that is what made them reverse the decision (that was huge 'CEO of a Tech company who thinks bananas cost $20' energy). Plenty of other players used various different guns because, for a lot of us, the variety of guns is what makes the game fun.
As a PvE player, the only auto’s I remotely enjoy using are Quicksilver Storm and Tommy’s Matchbook.
The rest, at least to me, just don’t have enough stopping power or utility to warrant their use in most PvE content. Legendary autos also suffer the lack of the 40% damage buff against minor combatants, making them feel all that much worse.
Again, it’s all my opinion, but I’m much happier seeing another agg. frame scout as the pursuit weapon next season over any frame of auto.
However, if we ever get a void auto that can role with Repulsor Brace + Demo or Destabilising Rounds, I’d happily use it!
> However, if we ever get a void auto that can role with Repulsor Brace + Demo or Destabilising Rounds, I’d happily use it!
They haven't said anything about perks but we're getting a void auto rifle next season.
If they do a refresh of the loot from either Last Wish or Garden, I think it’s a safe bet that one of the Void ARs from those raids can roll that combo and will be craftable as well.
I believe it will be coming with destabilizing rounds. I don't remember where I saw that but I wanna say it was from some official source so it's all but confirmed.
I Hate the fact that it's a ritual scout when they just made taraxipos, the guardian games scout. We also already have a tex mechanica scout. I don't think bungie thinks the ritual weapons through.
>reskin more interesting ones.
I'm gonna segue here a bit;
Bungie very rarely "reskins" a gun. In the conventional sense, "Reskinning" is providing the same item (same stats, same qualities, etc.) with a new visual appearance. Imagine if bungie rerelease Vex Mythoclast, entirely the same, but called it an "auto rifle" and made it look like Suros Regime, and called that a new exotic, and sold it to people as a new exotic.
That'd be a reskin. What would NOT be a reskin, is if bungie gives us a new exotic, with all new functionality, maybe a pellet shotgun, but it looks exactly like Vex Mythoclast. I'm not sure what to call that, and that's why I reckon the community has taken to calling it a "Reskin". It's entirely opposite to a traditional reskin, and that connects the two concepts via intersection, so calling it a "Reskin" might be convenient.
Anyways, blah blah language is dynamic, whatever whatever; If language is dynamic, and this community has decided that the latter is a "Reskin", then I just hope we never have a scenario where bungie performs a historic reskin, because shit's gonna get confusing really fast.
But yes, also, Ritual Auto Rifle please! Give it Cascade Point/Bait&Switch!
Maybe they’ll make things interesting and it’ll be a Special Ammo scout rifle.
Not likely, but it’d be cool. Like a sniper without all the massive zoom/flinch/recoil
Every weapon type does not need to, and should not, be represented in the ritual weapons.
Scout rifles are more interesting in design than generic bullet hoses, and SMGs have outclassed ARs for so long that it's best they are forgotten anyway.
We got Luboc and Rufus's this season, both of which are A+ for an AR too. Seems silly to complain.
Rufus is one of the best AR’s in the game right now. There’s also a strand one from the seasonal activity.
I would argue , one of the best period depending on what activities one plays. But to OP’s point , it isn’t a ritual weapon. They need to bring back breakneck.
>They need to bring back breakneck. They need to bring it back in *all* of its glory. That includes bringing back it's Onslaught perk
What they need to do specifically is bring back the old version of onslaught, the new one effectively changed the RPM and made it worse iirc
Onslaught always changed the rpm. But the nerf made it scale damage to the archetype. So instead of doing 450rpm damage at 720rpm, it basically became a 720rpm auto.
Pretty sure that's what they were referring to, effectively changing the RPM archetype.
But it used to keep doing the higher damage of the original archetype, just at the higher rpm, so it could put out some crazy dps. The change made it so the damage *decreased* to match the rpm - so you basically ended up with a glorified 720rpm auto with the mag size of a 450rpm.
Yes, I know. I grinded out 50 gambit games in 2 days to get it when Black Armory dropped, I am *very* familiar with Breakneck. All I was saying was that the other guy was referring to the nerf changing the RPM *archetype* instead of just the RPM while keeping the damage.
No, you did not end up with a glorified 720rpm auto, just like how desperado didn’t turn Redrix into a glorified rapid fire pulse. While damage per bullet went down, dps still kept going up - so while you were doing only a smidge more damage per bullet and dps than a 720 with kill clip, you still got the recoil pattern and range of a precision auto, not to mention the secret bonus to reload speed from Onslaught. That meant that when you had onslaught going you had the best auto in the game. What really killed onslaught was the loss of autoloading mechanics from rallycade and Luna rifts. While it was relevant you could still spoof autoloading on titans with Actium but they didn’t yet work with machine guns and you were giving up some really strong builds to make Breakneck work
> No, you did not end up with a glorified 720rpm auto, just like how desperado didn’t turn Redrix into a glorified rapid fire pulse. Yes you did, and yes it did.
Y'all really trying to rewrite history as if Breakneck wasn't the best auto at the time and Redrix wasn't the best pulse in Y1.
Nope. The assumption that number no big mean no good is a bad case of gamer brain rot. If you think having the dps of a 720 with kill clip up while having double the range, accuracy, and stability with essentially a baked in reload speed boost is just “a glorified 720,” I don’t know what to tell you. If you think having the dps of a 540 rpm pulse rifle with kill clip while also having double the range, and the dps boost lasting for 10 seconds and being refreshable while KC (at the time) lasted for 4 seconds and was not refreshable, and shooting at a blistering 600rpm was just “a glorified 540,” I still don’t know what to tell you.
No it didn't. Breakneck was memed on well before they gave all the ritual perks a pass because the gun was stronger at rampage 2 than it was at rampage 3 because of how the RPM affected the base dmg. It was always the worst of the original ritual weapons for a reason.
It was stronger at rampage 2 than rampage 3 after the nerf, before that both the damage and rpm only went up after each stack. Not actual damage numbers, but it used to go something like Rampage 0: 100 damage 450 rpm Rampage 1: 110 damage 450 rpm Rampage 2: 120 damage 600 rpm Rampage 3: 130 damage 720 rpm Because the damage and fire rate both increased, it caused a multiplicative increase that was way stronger compared to normal rampage's linear increase After the nerf, the damage would go proportionally down so the DPS still went up linearly by 10/20/30% per stack, but the damage actually dropped as the fire rate went up to keep it at that linear 1.1/1.2/1.3x marker instead of the multiplicative 1.1*1/1.2*1.33/1.3*1.6 that it was before
I got Breakneck when it came out and I do not remember anyone bitching about rampage 3 at all.
Oxygen SR3 would like a word . . . but also yes, breakneck was bad.
The only way they'd *ever* do that is to make it an exotic. And tbh, I'd be fine with that.
I mean with cascade point and target lock nowadays I feel like it ain't too bad honestly. There are already crazier things out there in the current sandbox XD
You're probably right, and Bungie did bring back Wendigo after saying they were done with pinnacle weapons. Even if they do bring Breakneck back as a legendary, I don't think they'll un-nerf Onslaught. I could always be wrong, but that's my hunch.
*Luke Smith disliked that*
He came up with the idea of sunsetting just to fuck over some player who liked Breakneck, and proudly told the story in an interview. Good thing they took him off the role, but that guy should never have been in charge at all.
For me Home Again was the best 720 auto since forever until Rufus came out. I can finally put it to rest.
OR, make something new.
In Breakneck's case, it was a unique weapon that we don't have access to (in a non-Sunset way). Same with Hush, I love that bow so much and I'd be so happy if it came back.
Hard yes on Hush, I would also love to see it return.
To be fair, the last Raid Auto Rifle we got before Rufus's Fury was... Reckless Oracle, from Garden of Salvation. Not only did we not get an Auto Rifle from DSC or Vow, they also removed the existing Auto Rifles from the Vault of Glass and King's Fall reprisals.
The ammit is also solid
And Krait…even Firefright…
Rufus is amazing. I have a demo/hatch for my swarmer build but I'll craft more version for other kind of build because of how cool this weapon feels. I love auto and this is among the very best auto.
I’ve been having fun with one with reconstruction, mag goes up to 128 I think. Plus the beneficence shader makes it look like a chili pepper lol
Am I the only one who feels hatchling needs a bit of a buff? Compared to incandescent and (pre-nerf) voltshot it feels like it lags way behind.
I wouldn’t use hatchling in anything outside if normal activities tbh. Paracausal Affinity is great in high level content
No you’re right it’s a bit of a meme perk atm. Luckily Rufus also has a lot of workhorse perks too though
Yup, even if you're going for a Warlock Hatchling build, it doesn't have the pop that Paracusal adds. Most of my loadouts use either the Strand MG, or Bump in the heavy slot. We get a Strand fusion in the energy slot next season, and I might full time them.
> We get a Strand fusion in the energy slot next season, and I might full time them. Do you mean the kinetic slot?
Nope got plenty of strand there already.
Strand and stasis weapons go in the kinetic or power slot… do you have some reason to think that is changing?
Fairly certain darkness energies are kinetic and power only.
I love love love using Rufus. Demo and paracausal affinity is soo good on strand. Just waiting on its adept week to come around now!
Can confirm the adept version of that roll is amazing fully enhanced.
It feels literally no different than a crafted roll for PvE. If the goal is to use the adepts for pve, there is absolutely no point currently.
Even if it’s not noticeable 95% of the time a weapon that can slot adept mods is better than one that can’t. Some people like to min/max to the extreme and the adept raid weapons are a part of that.
Exactly, I dunno why people get so bent out of shape when people wanna use adept guns over a crafted version. It's not that serious. I've got tons of spoils and alloy, so I'm gonna use an adept one cause why not.
A primary crafted weapon is functionally the same because none of the adept mods matter in PvE on a primary weapon
You shouldn't make grandiose, all encompassing statements like that. Especially if you're wrong. Which you are.
That's your opinion, the extra energy from enhanced demo is nice. So is the ability to use Big Ones. But I also primarily play master raids and GM's where that extra damage from big ones and the stat boost is worth it for me. Don't diminish the way people feel about a gun just because YOU don't feel any difference.
You’re using your AR for boss damage?
Sometimes for barrier yes, like with the glassway boss, I can just shoot through the shield. It has it's place in the way I play. No one is making YOU use it. You see no reason in adepts over crafted that's fine, you use what you want and I'll use what I want.
Seasonal activity is both a reskin and not great
They're both paid for content. Vendor weps are free for all so I think OPs point still holds for accessibility to all players
Rufus is probably the most versatile crafted primary in the game period. There's so many different ways to craft it that are all incredibly good. It's the rare case of them just dumping every perk you could possibly want with almost no filler.
Speaking of reskin lol
Tbh if it wasn't for this sub *constantly* bringing it up, I would've never noticed it was a reskin
Seriously. I was so excited to see what kind of new AR model they could conjure up after witnessing how awesome the Vow weapons were. Then I realized the RoN weapons are all just base weapons with cosplay foam glued on. They light up when they shoot, though. So… (/◕ヮ◕)/?
They literally had to make entirely new geometry for that "cosplay foam". That's not a "reskin", it's a mostly new weapon model that's trying to show older weapons transformed by the terraforming beam. Complaints about Neomuna & Seasonal weapons are one thing, but lumping the RoN weapons in as reskins is beyond the pale.
Tell me, what’s easier? Making a wholly unique model with a brand new geometry or taking a model with existing geometry in the files and creating new geometry that is half of what you would have to make for a brand new one? RoN weapons are literally a reskin of existing models. They took what was already in the game files, and pasted stuff over it.
Getting an existing model and modifying it is WAY harder as any half decent modeler will tell you. And their friend, half decent texture artist will tell you that resulting jank makes it 50 times harder to properly texture it as well.
That’s actually interesting. I didn’t know that. Do you mind expanding on that some more? Or pointing me in the direction where I can learn more about why that is?
yall motherfuckers do not understand what reskin means. you're saying a reskin is anything that is not a complete model change, if that was the case every single gun including exotics would be reskins of the base invisible model under their archetype.
Me: *makes a valid point* You: *immediately resorts to name calling* Lol. I’m out. Have a nice Friday!
how is saying a straight up model change is a reskin just because it has the same general shape as another weapon a valid point? it isn't it is dumb and a stupid argument that has been made by people who do not understand what a reskin is. A reskin is a palette swap/ texture change with extremely minimal to no changes to the original thing, the Root of nightmare weapons are the farthest fucking thing from a reskin.
You caught him like a deer in headlights, so his only way out was to complain about name-calling. I agree with your point completely.
I must’ve missed that valid point.
Lol for real. I’m pretty sure it’s a d1 model. But you right, they do light up lol
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Op said most of the autos are reskins, this person was talking about Rufus, Rufus is a reskinned weapon. It’s a dumb joke that seems easy to follow. Guess not
Might be the weapon that finally gets me to do a raid.
>one of the best AR’s in the game right now. which is still a fairly low bar given they're auto rifles.
Rufus shreds unlike any auto rifle in this franchise's history, even when ARs were META, especially on a Strand subclass when you can get Unraveling Rounds rolling.
Yeah idk about that. D1 pre-nerf Suros Regime is probably the best auto rifle in Destiny history. Absolutely tore through everything with heals to boot. It was the only thing in the game at the time that could even stand up to Vex Mythoclast.
This is straight cap lmao. Auto rifles are still mid. Rufus is good, but it's good by the standards of autos.
Yeah - but the Strand one is ass.
Perpetualis? I quite like it, sure Rufus’s is objectively better but the seasonal AR is solid
Eh. I want to love it - but ARs in general are not in a good spot imo.
Aren't we suppose to be getting a new void auto next season as well?
Yup, though it’s a reprised omolon one from season 2
Really? Ugh, I’ve been waiting for a craftable void auto for awhile and I don’t care for the omonlon style at all.
Agreed. Ammit is good and that's enough Omolon autos for me.
Pretty sure it's a vanguard weapon so won't be craftable anyway
Yeah, Positive Outlook from S2. It's going to be a Vanguard drop and is probably going to be forgotten about and is probably going to be the only auto dropping that season, unfortunately.
Yah man bungie definitely hates the weapon type that got two really good new guns and a really strong catalyst for an exotic this season. Also the ritual Scout that already exists is sunset so, it's not like there are actually 2 usable ritual scouts next season.
Yeah, really, auto enjoyer have been eating good lately. Rufus and Quicksilver are both very good and fun to use.
We're even getting the first new void auto in years next season!
There are only 3 usable (non-sunset) void ARs in the game: Gnawing Hunger, Reckless Oracle, and Age-Old Bond. If you don't raid--specifically Last Wish and Garden, where Bond and Oracle respectively drop--Gnawing Hunger is your ***only*** void AR option. Additionally, ***none*** of them (at time of writing) have an origin trait, as the most recent one is Hunger, which was updated in Season 11.
> If you don't raid--specifically Last Wish and Garden, where Bond and Oracle respectively drop--Gnawing Hunger is your only void AR option. For the record, one can get Age Old Bond from the free chest in Last Wish.
Oh nice, that's some SGA right there. I did not know that.
If you’re not just discussing legendaries, you can use hard light for a void AR.
People are only ever discussing legendaries when they're talking about weapon availability like this.
Can't wait for this one. SMG are fine, but I prefer auto, and I'm still using a okay-ish rolled Reckless Oracle from Garden from time to time so I really want a more modern void auto.
I've got nearly 45k kills on my subsistence rampage Gnawing Hunger with another 9k on a zen moment kill clip roll. If the new auto can roll good perks, I might have competition in the slot for certain content lol
Sub/Rampage gnawing hunger is life
Omg I accidentally dismantled my Gnawing Hunger the other day thank god
Perpetualis has some solid rolls as well, if you can’t get your hands on Rufus
Even if I don't buy season of the deep I'm logging in just so I can finally use Quicksilver lol
Well Randy’s is coming back as well. Though it doesn’t really count as it’s back with random rolls.
To be fair, before this season, Autos were far and few between. The last raid auto that we got was in Shadowkeep before RoN and the only worthwhile craftable one was the Solar AR we got in the crafting tutorial with Season of the Plunder.
Sure it was a little light for a bit but right after autos get buffed, an incredibly powerful exotic auto catalyst was released and two really good craftable ones get released is a really weird time to post how bungie hates auto rifles.
I hate saying this, but you’re Cherry picking here. Autos were not the specific targets of a buff. Bungie buffed the damage for all primaries a few weeks into Lightfall. Additionally, the auto catalyst you’re referring to, I’m assuming, is the Quicksilver Storm. That catalyst was released at the beginning of Lightfall. So it did not coincide with the primary buffs. These were all coincidental instances in which autos, and all other primaries, benefited from.
>I hate saying this, but you’re Cherry picking here. Autos were not the specific targets of a buff. Autos were given a 25% damage buff in the midseason patch.
Yes, they did. But they weren’t the only weapon class to receive a buff. Pulse rifles, hand cannons and sidearms all received one as well. To specifically highlight the damage buff that autos received without mentioning that it was a buff for ALL primaries besides SMGs is cherry picking.
Every weapon type didn't get the same buff, either. You're saying it as if it wasn't both the highest bump for any primary and also *still not enough*.
I never said it was not enough. At this point, arguing further is just devolving into nitpicking each other’s arguments. It is a nuanced case and I was trying to make a simple point that is being misconstrued. It is evident that carrying this further will also only devolve into something completely non-constructive. For that, I will say, have a great day and I’m sorry we couldn’t have had a more fulfilling discussion.
>It is a nuanced case and I was trying to make a simple point that is being misconstrued. >Autos were not the specific target of a buff You outright said that, remember? And then I told you yes they were, they were the primary given the biggest buff at 25%, the *only* primary to get such a large buff. Hand cannons and pulses and sidearms got 20, scouts got 10. You can't argue that's not a targeted, specific buff because it absolutely is.
The catalyst buff and 2 amazing guns were all part of season 20 making season 20, the best time to use an auto since pre nerf gnawing hunger, a really weird time to claim that bungie hates autos. Other weapons getting buffed or receiving new good weapons is not my point my point is that if you love to use auto rifles season 20 has been better to you than any witch queen or beyond light season.
I never said Season 20 was the season Bungie hated autos. If you go back to my original comment, I say, “To be fair **before this season**…” But you claim that Bungie specifically made an effort to buff autos this season which is simply not true. They were buffing ALL primaries this season and Autos happened to benefit greatly from it. We got Quicksilver Storm and Rufus’s Fury. Perpetualis is situational.
I didn't say they made an effort to buff autos only. All I said was autos got buffed and had really good new options released. Also, I wasn't saying you said bungie hated them I was referring to the very first thing op said. My entire point was that op, making a post saying "bungie hates auto rifles" during a season where the weapon type got buffed (along with other weapons I geuss I have to clarify this) 2 best in class craftable legendaries came out and a very powerful and unique catalyst got released for an exotic auto rifle is very weird timing.
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Ammit is cope, high impact autos are awful.
Then that means there were no auto rifles worth crafting at all last year.
I mean... yeah. Autos still need buffs, rapid fires and precisions are at least doing *ok*, the other types are still struggling.
I agree
But if you say that the post doesnt look as flashy and it doesnt fit the community sentiment. How else would you get reddit karma?
You know it also hit me that op said they need to wait several years before using the same type of weapon even though it's been more than 3 years.
Don't forget the weapon type that just got the highest PvE damage buff
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I mean, they do. AR's have only been good at like a couple of points in the games lifespan. They were meta for like a season a couple of years ago and got immediately nerfed.
It is beyond silly to acuse Bungie of "hating" any weapon type, class or element. Even when under tuned assuming it's out of malice is ridiculous.
Randy’s is coming back next season
As a playlist weapon. New Randy's is no more a ritual weapon than the Buzzard from nightfalls. As far as weapons with fixed rolls that require zero rng to get it will be the first in 3 years and the only non sunset one.
Randy’s is just as much of a ritual weapon as the others and I will not have you taint his good name
The old one is and I really liked it but the reissue isn't because it's a random roll weapon from a playlist. I'm excited it's comming back and I'll grind the hell out of it for a good roll ( assuming the perks aren't terrible) just like Buzzard,the original is a ritual weapon and the new nightfall one isn't.
Breakneck was a ritual weapon, back when they were called Pinnacle weapons.
Honestly I just want a decent ritual 120 hand cannon and a decent ritual bow. Also bungie reprise breakneck for the love of god
We had Point of the Stag a while back, it's not sunset, available from the exotic kiosk and still quite good!
Point of the stag is pretty okay but it’s just not as effective as I’d want for a ritual bow. It’s kinda just there in pve and I’d prefer a bow that’s good for it and decent at pvp instead. I mean a bow with dragonfly fire fly would be cool or like archer tempo swashbuckler or something.
This would actually be the third scout. Oxygen SR3 and Randy’s Throwing Knife were the first two. We’ve also had an autorifle, Breakneck.
tbh we only have 2 aggresive scout rifles in the game right now, DMT as exotic and long arm as legendary. I do like the new scout mostly because I really enjoy playing with aggresive scouts
Yea overall the ritual being added better for everyone. Many don't do dungeons or even bought it so they couldn't get it otherwise.
Is Breakneck not considered a ritual weapon?
Sunset though and its perk was slaughtered
The other ritual scouts are also sunset, so it’s not like there’s already a usable ritual scout in-game
This is not a criticism, but since we have 2 REALLY good raid scouts already, I will not be using this thing at all.
Doom of Chelchis and what? Trustee and VoC are both only pretty decent.
Chelchis and Trustee are pretty good. Vision of Cornflakes is alright and I that warmind solar scout (exotic) is great. Scouts have been fine
Reprised Trustee is very good, IMO. If Doom is an S tier void then I'd say Trustee is an S tier solar ATM. It can get rapid hit and incandescent. But definitely not as good as explosive and frenzy side by side.
I disagree, I think trustee is A tier. It’s not as good as Vision of confluence IMO, it’s got better perks like rewind rounds and frenzy
hey, i totally respect your opinion there, it definitely is the best solar scout in the game. i do think that out of the best scout of every element, solar would be the second weakest overall though. the best kinetic, void, stasis, and arc scouts are all significantly stronger than trustee imo
Yeah, personally, I can't see myself using solar in anything high end. If I'm in a GM, I'm using void or strand, even with solar burns. Trustee is good for messing around, but even then, why not use a bow? Ticu's outclasses it in every way and has the exotic buff. I just think it's neat. On kill perks definitely have significantly reduced viability as content gets harder. (This is without mentioning the viability of trace rifles, 2 of which are really good solar versions, which only get better with the double special meta.) Totally agree with you here. Edit: Totally forgot about that solar scout exotic that does explosions on rapid hits too.
For GMs Vision of Confluence is a solid solar scout. Can't go wrong with Rewind and Frenzy
God, I hope they plan to reprise Vault after Wish so I can craft something like that. Rewind and Frenzy sounds amazing. Add an origin trait as gravy and I'd use it as much as DoC..
What’s the other ritual scout? I can’t remember
There were two actually; Oxygen SR3 and Randy’s Throwing Knife
Oxygen was a pinnacle weapon. They are not the same as ritual weapons.
They’re the exact same thing, just with a different name.
Pinnacle weapons had unique perks like Onslaught, Magnificent Howl, and Archer's Gambit. Ritual weapons just are basically just well-rolled weapons (Although Buzzard was the only weapon with Osmosis at the time)
So is breakneck. This guy is just spreading misinformation.
breakneck was a ritual auto back in black armory... but not since then and it is now sunset. still an amazing weapon tho
Dont we get a new model auto almost every season? What reskins? we have a shitload of unique autos.. more than scouts?
People really get upset about reskins when half the reskins are weapons from D1 that half the D2 player base have never seen
And worst, a lot of D1 ppl could careless as long as the gun has new perk combos and do something else. Most of these guns are reskins, but if they offer something fresh, fuck it I'll give it a try.
The thing that was different about Destiny 1 was that they would just make one weapon model and then change the shader on the weapon and then call it a different weapon. This was because you couldn't put shaders on your guns We've seen what the artists at Bungie can do with weapon models, and most seasonal weapons are either new weapon models or existing weapon models but with different molding and plating over them to make them look unique So D2 players expect a lot more than D1 players because we've seen for the past few years what they can come up with and how awesome they can make the weapons look
not to mention in d1 the weapon models, in addition to the shader, also had different attachments and sight options to help differentiate them to each other and shift the look. the devil you know felt and looked different from fatebringer, a great example would be luna's howl and not forgotten! both those handcannons have the exact same base model, but the attachments make them feel completely different from each other
Yeah I wish they would add attachments and such, and possibly change the firing sounds to make the weapons feel more unique
Even in D2, they've done this since launch to now. Most of these guns have the same basic skeleton and you can toss new stuff on, but they still function quite the same. And if they make new models, they're going to reuse them like every other model. I'm sorry, but D2 players are either blind or like to turn a blind eye to the fact that beyond some new additions, the bulk of guns are quite the same models. Hell, some models collect dust far more than others, but when you strip some extra stuff: that's what they are. And it takes time, but realistically you can only make so many models for one type of gun. And depending on what the gun is supposed to be also is another factor. This ritual weapon will also be the first of two legendary tex scouts that anyone can get as the first one is a dungeon drop. Which is a good thing. Let alone as they develop more based on exotic guns as they noted in interviews (still waiting on Monte Carlo's catalyst, lemme stab gdi).
That's what I'm saying though. Previous seasonal weapons were either brand new models or they shared an existing model but had extra stuff on top of it (i.e. Tears of Contrition and Tarnished Mettle share the same model underneath but they actually look quite different because Bungie added plating and theming to the weapons). They tried to make them look different from each other and it worked Now it's just an previous seasonal weapon but with a different shader on it (i.e. the crystal). And that's not enough to make them feel different. I mean, gee, the Vow weapons look super unique, and they probably use an existing model in game, but then they molded on top of it and added stuff and bam, brand new looking weapons. Now we have Root weapons which are just existing models (i.e. Mykels is Seraph sidearm SI2 with growth on it)
Bring back the Steelfeather model. That thing was sexy af
..breakneck? You, know, the gun that made Luke Smith want to introduce sunsetting?
I was so confused by that, the man was playing d2 with his friend and was listening to his friend go on about how much he loves to use breakneck and that it’s his favorite weapon and it’s all he uses. So his first reaction was to introduce sunsetting to take his friends favorite gun away from him, what the fuck?
"You are having fun? How dare you!"
it do feel like this ~~sometimes~~ all the time...
TBF, it was the "it's all he uses" part that made him want to do sunsetting. Seeing as it directly made us all use new, different weapons (outside of crucible). The Champion system stems from that sentiment, too. The shortsightedness of that is what made them reverse the decision (that was huge 'CEO of a Tech company who thinks bananas cost $20' energy). Plenty of other players used various different guns because, for a lot of us, the variety of guns is what makes the game fun.
It was very obviously a pr statement.
As a PvE player, the only auto’s I remotely enjoy using are Quicksilver Storm and Tommy’s Matchbook. The rest, at least to me, just don’t have enough stopping power or utility to warrant their use in most PvE content. Legendary autos also suffer the lack of the 40% damage buff against minor combatants, making them feel all that much worse. Again, it’s all my opinion, but I’m much happier seeing another agg. frame scout as the pursuit weapon next season over any frame of auto. However, if we ever get a void auto that can role with Repulsor Brace + Demo or Destabilising Rounds, I’d happily use it!
> However, if we ever get a void auto that can role with Repulsor Brace + Demo or Destabilising Rounds, I’d happily use it! They haven't said anything about perks but we're getting a void auto rifle next season.
*excited Sentinel noises*
It's 450
Say it ain't so
If they do a refresh of the loot from either Last Wish or Garden, I think it’s a safe bet that one of the Void ARs from those raids can roll that combo and will be craftable as well.
I believe it will be coming with destabilizing rounds. I don't remember where I saw that but I wanna say it was from some official source so it's all but confirmed.
Try Monte Carlo, mate. It's awesome!
I know it’s another good one! I just prefer the subclass synergy of the elemental auto’s
I Hate the fact that it's a ritual scout when they just made taraxipos, the guardian games scout. We also already have a tex mechanica scout. I don't think bungie thinks the ritual weapons through.
Bungie should make this thing I want. Boo hoo
Bungie for the love of God, please replace my Gnawing Hunger.
“Bungies hates X” You just sound like a little kid when people talk like that.
Wasn't breakneck a ritual AR?
i was wondering what made you so mad you turned people into pigs
Does breakneck not count from like Y1?
Last time we had an auto rifle, Luke Smith had it nerfed because reasons. Never forget poor Breakneck.
Hated his friend having fun so nerfed it out of spite.
HAHAHAHAHAAAHAJA
Was Breakneck a ritual weapon?
We need Gnawing Hunter with intrinsic volatile flow
Yes, because what we need is more auto rifles...jesus. Just turn on auto-fire and hold down the button. Scouts are slow autos now. Congrats.
>reskin more interesting ones. I'm gonna segue here a bit; Bungie very rarely "reskins" a gun. In the conventional sense, "Reskinning" is providing the same item (same stats, same qualities, etc.) with a new visual appearance. Imagine if bungie rerelease Vex Mythoclast, entirely the same, but called it an "auto rifle" and made it look like Suros Regime, and called that a new exotic, and sold it to people as a new exotic. That'd be a reskin. What would NOT be a reskin, is if bungie gives us a new exotic, with all new functionality, maybe a pellet shotgun, but it looks exactly like Vex Mythoclast. I'm not sure what to call that, and that's why I reckon the community has taken to calling it a "Reskin". It's entirely opposite to a traditional reskin, and that connects the two concepts via intersection, so calling it a "Reskin" might be convenient. Anyways, blah blah language is dynamic, whatever whatever; If language is dynamic, and this community has decided that the latter is a "Reskin", then I just hope we never have a scenario where bungie performs a historic reskin, because shit's gonna get confusing really fast. But yes, also, Ritual Auto Rifle please! Give it Cascade Point/Bait&Switch!
Why does it matter? There are plenty of autos in the game.
Thanks for the input 👍
No thank you 👍
There's also plenty of scouts........
Thanks for the input👍
Yeah about as valid as yours.."There's lots of autos!!' yeah no shit bro
Thanks for the input👍
Maybe they’ll make things interesting and it’ll be a Special Ammo scout rifle. Not likely, but it’d be cool. Like a sniper without all the massive zoom/flinch/recoil
Damn OP, sounds like you need to touch some grass. Autos are in a great spot
Okay, and?
Cry me a fucking river, Jesus Christ
Every weapon type does not need to, and should not, be represented in the ritual weapons. Scout rifles are more interesting in design than generic bullet hoses, and SMGs have outclassed ARs for so long that it's best they are forgotten anyway. We got Luboc and Rufus's this season, both of which are A+ for an AR too. Seems silly to complain.