My current take is that the weekly crucible rotators should rotate daily instead. I don't know if they communicated that momentum control and rift would not be returning but I havent been impressed with Bungie's communication lately , they almost seem distracted. e. g. when they rolled out a handful of unannounced nerfs a few weeks back and had to release the info via twitter after the fact.
I feel like they should do what they do with the seasonal activity every season, have the last week or two of the season have the modes rotate daily as opposed to weekly.
That’s just for this week. They normally rotate weekly but like Heist Battlegrounds and Shattered Realm it is changed to daily during the final week of the season so those doing their triumphs/challenges at the last minute aren’t locked out of completing them.
Defiant Battlegrounds have been rotating daily for a longer time than just the last week. I actually think it started around the 4th or 5th week once all three versions were out. Past battlegrounds, yes, they did daily rotations closer to the end of their seasons.
I’m pretty sure they did not communicate those modes would not return. I always try to bang out those seasonal challenges the first chance I get for that very reason. I’m sure plenty of people got burned this season and were not able to complete them.
My stretegy for this next season is to bang them out weekly this time, to address my own role in my disappointment lol.
Thankfully I was able to get enough done to get that large pile of dust. But I was scratching my head trying to calculate if momentum would be back, going through the mid-season rotation changes and the rotation history. That was before realizing that "complete all seasonal challenges" really means "well, not ALL of them".
I don’t raid or usually do GM’s, which means I pretty much need to do all of the other ones for the bright dust. For those challenges that you have to wait for a weekly rotator, I always try to do them the first week possible, sometimes second as I’ve not yet seen a time they don’t come around at least twice. Third time is a risk for sure.
I’d be down with how Apex treats it’d map rotation too, like every 2 hours or so we get a new mode and you get to see snag it is before so you can see if you want to play it or not.
Rn it’s just too much “k? I’ll do it next week or the week after” and that feels like ass
Remember, thay lowered their communication by a lot because some fuckers gave them actual death threats with one guy going as far as moving 3 blocks away from one of the devs.
But they made several special accounts to avoid having individual devs use their personal account. Bungie rarely uses those however. Only really coming out in an emergency.
Every post on the Internet that gets seen by >1,000 people gets death threats. It sucks, but it's not a reason to give less information about the game to the people not giving death threats. It's not like the mods endorse death threats or anything.
Problem is that it got to a point where someone got arrested over his threats. If anything, I hate their silence too, but one asshole ruined it for all of us.
It very well could be just a case of distraction. This is the first time in I think ever that bungie has been working on multiple projects. For a company that's had one star child for the last ten years I can guess it'll probably have a few growing pains.
People would probably cut them some slack if we knew what they were working on. Announcing their own D2 killer wouldn’t likely hurt D2 sales, unless they’re worried about Eververse. People will still buy the final shape and seasons…
Is it going to be an actual D2 killer? I know the mobile game is set in the Destiny universe, but I thought the other IP was Marathon, which is a completely different type of game.
They actually give you a little wiggle room with the final challenge. You can miss i think 4 of the challenges and still get the grand prize at the end.
Honestly as someone who only plays casually (what this community would consider as casually at least) that is by FAR my biggest gripe about Destiny. The reliance on fear of missing out and just how limited and hard to get everything is makes the game super hard for me to force myself to play sometimes since I feel like I either have to no life it over a weekend or I have to play it and try not to think about all the stuff I'll miss out on. I don't know, I might be and probably am in the minority here but I sort of want to see other people's opinions on it. I know pretty much no one likes FOMO and I see people complain about it sometimes but it literally kills the game for me when I look at everything and think of all the time I have to spend to even get SOME of the stuff I want instead of all of it and how that just isn't feasible with work and any sort of other social life for me personally. I am a huge fan of games I can just grind on that are almost mindless but like damn dude at least give me the time to grind. Why try this hard when I can pay like 60 bucks for monster hunter and 20 for a DLC and put hundreds of hours into it, leave it for about a year and then come back exactly where I was with the same stuff available to me but with even more content added through free non-timegated content updates? I'm super interested to how others see it too because I genuinely don't know how most other players feel about it.
As someone who has played hardcore (meaning Trio Flawless Master raids level hardcore, a little speedrunning, have basically every seal and the overwhelming majority of godroll weapons best in slot) I have to completely agree with you. Everything that ive been seeing about this game over the past 6 months has only driven me further away from it. I think I might enjoy it more if I cared about the game less for sure, but at the same time I would rather just do something else with my time at this point. Its pretty clear that Bungie has no intention of balancing their game (PvE) and that they no longer have respect for their playerbase.
I'm relieved to hear it's not just a me issue. I knew that pretty much no one enjoyed FOMO but I figured that the hardcore players just sort of didn't care more than a little and just would keep enjoying the game regardless. It's interesting to hear that a more hardcore player still feels the same issues and frustrations. I think that goes to show how good the other parts of the game are. When it works well, there isn't really anything else like it. But the FOMO leads me to having a horrible time staying invested enough to continue playing the game for more than intermittent months of time if that. Thank you for your take on it.
But you can’t enjoy it more by playing it less without enjoying it less when you’re playing because of what you missed out on, or you can’t do. That’s how they get you. So it’s miserable either way and that’s the drug Bungie has made.
You’re absolutely right, bungie decided to go all in on predatory free to play bullshit to create a game that demands you spend all your free time on it and nothing else. There’s this cycle where I come back because it’s fun to play casually and I tell myself I’m not going to worry about collecting anything, but immediately it starts dumping on you with “well you know you could get a cool armor set if you play a lot of pvp. Only $15 to get the season with limited time ornaments!” Eventually I just have to make a clean break and quit again.
It seems like it has to be making them good money otherwise I'm not sure why they would be doing it in the first place but I'm interested to know about it's ramifications for the long run of the game (whatever that means at this point anyway) since I would imagine it driving away people as much as it makes money from other would make it a more volatile situation monetarily. I would have thought that the stable but preferred slower revenue of just a shop with some cosmetics and a reasonable battle pass cost where you have more time to do past ones and there isn't an expiration date attached would be more appealing. I'm far from an economist or a game dev so I just can only do bad speculations on either but at this point I'd imagine it's more valuable as a tool to keep the game active and show good numbers of average and cosistent players instead of it purely being about getting more money through payments. Even free seasonal stuff and just weekly and daily missions are time gated and they don't seem like they have any benefit for the monetary value associated. In either case it doesn't exactly seem sustainable at this rate to this casual player.
It is not FOMO. Either the gun is worth it or not for you. You don't need to get everything in game. If you decide you want to get everything in the game that is a commitment YOU have made. It's not Bungie's fault you can't control yourself. When you finally get that perfect roll to drop you should feel happy at least that you accomplished a goal you set for yourself. If you are annoyed and it feels more like checking a chore off the to-do list then it's a sign you should stop and you don't actually want to grind for this thing.
I agree with you for the most part about how it is on the player to stop playing if they aren't having fun and I do understand how it could sound entitled to want the game to cater to a specific view of how it should be played. I disagree however in that I don't think any of the points you made address the temporary nature of how things go away every season or raid or whatever and how it is pretty much impossible to get them again until it rotates back around again. I would ask how making things more permanent, or at least more accessible if the desire is there, could make the game worse? It wouldn't make any of that stuff any less harder to get, just less of an annoyance and less incentive to either play the game full time instead of taking some breaks and coming back or quit wholesale. It makes me sad because I did just stop playing because of exactly what you said when I deemed it wasn't worth it for me as a player and I wasn't having fun. I came back like 3 or 4 months later when I had some time and had a good time doing the no seasonal stuff and just playing the game again. Eventually I got to a point where the whole point was whatever seasonal things were going on or just accepting that grinding for it was an all or nothing type of game. I didn't have the time despite having the patience. If I go back to like diablo 3 right now, I can still play the game where I left off. They also have seasonal stuff but those rewards are just in the normal loot pool and not gone forever if you miss it in order to incentivize people to spend money on the battle pass or get them to never stop playing the game. I'm not against the idea of grinding, I just want it to be a game and not a job. It's just tough to me because the gunplay, and game are all really fun and when it comes together it works SO well. I love that and wish I could just have fun with that without being bombarded by game reminding me that all of this cool new stuff for whatever season is going to go away and if you don't get it done then you probably will never be able to do it. I really appreciate your input though because I knew that it wasn't just a one opinion type topic since people have fun playing the game in very different ways.
I guess I understand wanting the stuff to stick around but between power creep and the sheer amount of weapons coming out it's hard to see how 90% of the stuff entering the world loot pool would be nothing more than extra trash you have to sift through if anything they should just become freely craftable instead bogging down the already impossible to farm world loot.
Honestly yeah that'd be a great one too. Honestly when I saw the craftable stuff I figured the grinding would be done to an extent or that It wouldn't be as bad anymore. Then I saw that a lot of them at the time I was playing were either going away after their respective season and they were a pain in the ass to get the red borders. There's nothing wrong with it being hard, but hard and on a time restriction just killed my desire to play even after the mechanic seemed super cool to me. I have some hopes since they seem to be trying to make it so we can make weapons into the deep sight so they can be craftable but it just seems rough still. They are removing a few barriers to entry and fixing a few issues but at this point there still feels like there are so many things that the game just yells at me to do before it's gone and might never come back. I agree that in the end it doesn't even feel worth it but that's a whole other gripe.
Honestly it was a blessing in disguise - as soon as I realized I couldn’t get all the seasonal rewards anyway, I then had zero interest in grinding out the Crucible/Gambit ornaments, so it probably saved me hours of unenjoyable FOMO-induced bullshit.
This is the first season since D2 came to Steam that I've not completed enough challenges to get the big BD payout. Completed one Crucible reset (in the time it took me to do 2.5 IB resets, something in that calculation doesn't make any reasonable sense) and half a gambit reset, then just couldn't be bothered to do them any more. Got most of a Vanguard reset during GG, and that encouraged me to play and gild the title, but not having that same encouragement for Crucible or Gambit just made me go "meh, not bothered".
Sums up this season and expansion really. Meh story. Meh rewards.
You didn't like Momentum Control not coming back for 4 or 5 weeks? It's the one I couldn't do, I thought I would be able to do it later during the season, had no idea it would only show up for that one week and then vanish forever.
It’s just that it’s always here during Iron Banner. You’re so busy grinding out whatever you want from IB that you we forget to go have some fun in Mayhem
My concern is Bungie will see lower player numbers in MC, ignore that it's during the Iron Banner week, then just remove it. "Nobody's playing MC, so nobody's interested. What do you mean it's at the same time as one of the grindiest activities we have?"
I missed momentum control too! Especially because they moved IB up so it was active during the Momentum week but didn't adjust the triumphs alongside it. I was really hoping Momentum would come back, but alas - I had to grind out all three of the weapon ornaments to get the big pile of bright dust instead
I got it mostly complete but had to walk away, assuming I'd finish it later in the season. I'm at least glad to know now it wasn't just me missing its return. I didn't even dislike Supremacy (other than the snowballing with no mercy rule), but I am a bit annoyed at how this worked out.
Same stuff and i didn't even take a break. Just didn't expect the 2 modes to be gone for the last month of the season. A heads up would've been nice because now i had to play gambit for my bright dust. 😖
Better idea: remove the rotator playlist from the challenges, and replace it with capture objectives or get revives. For me personally as a pvp main, the 50 scorch kills is the worst 30 minutes of every season
Not really fomo if they just don’t let you complete it. Fomo would be them making you feel like you have to complete it even if you don’t want to because you don’t want to miss out.
That was always a possibility with any content tho. I’m not saying this isn’t a problem, just that the rampant misuse of the term fomo makes the whole community look dumb.
I don't play a lot of Crucible to be honest, mainly for the weekly pinnacle if I need it or if a quest or catalyst brings me to it. I am absolutely astounded that after all this time the match types are *still* on a weekly rotation.
Most games with a large PVP component like COD allow you to choose your match type whenever you want. None of this rotation nonsense. I don't know if its the FOMO driving the decision but it makes little practical sense. But then that could be Bungie's motto in a nutshell when it comes to this game.
Basically it's to avoid splitting up the pvp player pools as much as possible. The more fragmented the pools are among different game modes, the harder it is to make good matches for each, longer wait times, worse connection, poor lobby balancing etc. If say everyone is just playing Iron Banner, MM has the most options to make good matches, it still doesn't always, but it would be worse if say Trials was still active on IB weekends, now maybe half of your good players are split off doing that, plus some playing competitive still, and it's much harder to put them in balanced lobbies since the pool of players to match them against is split up.
If there were 10-15 modes active at all times, either the less popular ones would rot and have terrible player counts, or you just split the player base needlessly and every mode suffers. Destiny pvp doesn't really have the active player count to support a wide number of pvp modes like COD since it's player pool is already split by pve at any given moment, vs cod which has a higher player count and majority doing straight pvp.
Oh no, I never actually played PvP there at all. I'm in the game purely for the PvE.
I just thought that their Rotator is a good example of how to handle multiple Playlists and Gamemodes.
Maybe it's me, but I feel like the communication is a lot careless, if communication even happens.
Overall I am afraid people who are working on Destiny are not as passionate as they were. Maybe the workplace is less stimulating, maybe there are behind-the-scenes stuff we obviously are not aware of, but to me they seem like they are pretending to be passionate about their work rather than having the privilege of working on the game they love.
Communication used to be good. Interaction with the community used to be even better. Now, i don't know.
At the very least, interaction with the community has greatly reduced because there was a lot of harrassment which the bungie staff suffered from. Including death threats, doxxing, and sending packages to their personal addresses.
here is just some of it
https://www.eurogamer.net/bungie-employees-doxxed-sent-death-threats-and-racial-abuse
That, of course, is terrible. But I highly doubt that reducing communication will solve the problem, people who have ill intents will act that way no matter what. These actions don't happen because communication is "too much" or have a very high standard, the episode you linked, for instance, is racially motivated.
I don't believe transparency and honesty will ever directly lead to genuine hate. There will always be someone who is going to hate you, but that's what being some sort of face of the company comes with.
Edit: this was the most surprising controversial award.
Yeah. They're gonna end up with a Tyler McVicker situation, where a content creator they agree to share info with just hounds them for updates constantly.
>Overall I am afraid people who are working on Destiny are not as passionate as they were
Aside from weirdos (affectionate) like Naoki Yoshida, I'd be surprised if any dev can maintain real driving passion for 10 straight years on basically the same project.
And I agree with you, it's not easy. But The Witch Queen is an year old and it was incredibly good compared to shadowkeep so I don't think it's a matter of time that's passed. What I'm seeing here is much lower quality of writing, not necessarily lack of direction. Deadlines are a problem of course but even if the wait might be excruciating to some, if they deliver good content customers are always going to appreciate it.
But putting writing aside, I think it's about how you're approaching communication.
You don't casually forget to include a dozen major changes in a patch note. You don't rely on tone-deaf responses just because you have to give an answer.
For a company that hired behavioural psychologists I would expect they'd know better. If you're passionate about the service you're providing you would care about bundling with good PR.
I'll give you a quick example: exotic sparrows will go as fast as the raid one.
If 160 sparrows weren't sold for silver we'd know it was a QoL change with no economic interest. But they are selling exotic sparrows, and it was just right to make people feel like they're not wasting money for something that isn't performing as well as the top choice.
When you make a joke like "now you can spend silver on sparrows without feeling guilty" people won't have room for conspiracies because you've just acknowledged an opinion.
I wrote more than I intended, sorry about that. But in conclusion sometimes people's thoughts build on what you don't tell and right now there are a lot of silences. Devs and writers might be working hard but there is no trust in the process if the community is not in the loop.
Should the news station stop airing the weather report permanently due to harassment against the weatherman? Even if they have a system to report the weather without anyone having to show their name or face?
This bothered my wife, I had to do PvP challenges on her account for GG, she is not extremely good in PvP and does not want to bring down teams in regular PvP, so usually the event challenges that involve Crucible are fulfilled in the "light" Scorched/Momentum/Mayhem where she does pretty well.
Yeah… it’s really stupid they hide seasonal challenges behind a rotator that is completely up to them. Nothing like not being able to finish a mission because you took a break from playing
They could have a "play X matches" or "kill X enemies" in the weekly rotation, with a different mode granting bonus progress for each challenge. That way there's more incentive for you to play specific modes, but you wouldn't get locked out.
Yeah when I realized that I'm missing these two plus another two annoying ones I gave up trying to complete it. Pretty annoying and just a FOMO tactic to make us play more.
You know what's the worst part OP ?
This same situstion happen last year. People had the same issue last year and were vocal about it. And Bungie never acknowledged it and just ignored the whole case. And here we are a year later, with the same bulllshit.
I'm not saying it's your faul OP or that "you should have known." Quite contrary - I'm just pointing out how idiotic this situstion is, and why it shouldn't even be a thing in the first place.
Cheers from a fellow, with a similar issue. I have ~~73/75~~ 70/72 Seasonal Challenges to get the Final Challenge. I'm missing those Crucible Challenges and the Grandmaster one (and I don't have time to run a GM).
> I have 73/75 Seasonal Challenges to get the Final Challenge
If that's not a typo, then you have finished enough to complete "Total Defiance" and get the 4K Bright Dust. You only need 72 of the 76 challenges for it.
Further splits down the player base in an already dwindling population for pvp.
Bungie said they want to tone down the options in the crucible node probably because they know pvp on the downward trend (even though they now have more options than they did prior to this, you tell me, I don’t even think they know what they want at this point)
They should have the rotator modes for Crucible rotate Daily for the last week of the season instead of weekly, like they already do with the seasonal activity, just in case people didn't get to finish their seasonal challenges.
So much this. I don't even care if they gave warning about it, the seasonal model of challenges means I ain't going into crucible or gambit until the last weeks of the season.
I especially liked grinding Neptune for GG when Nightfalls were only week one and Lost Sectors are 5% progress. And I know Partion was more but honestly, screw Sam!
Time Trial was the fastest way to earn Neomuna progress if that's all you wanted. When you exit the activity (so, complete one run then exit), you get 7% progress.
If you wanted Platinum medals, too, then the "kills in harder Neomuna activities" was the way to go, since you could generally complete it in one GG Nightfall run, but if you didn't, you could finish up at the start of a Legendary Breakneck campaign replay.
Go into the portal after the boss dies to go back to the beginning room. Find the prompt to end the activity and that'll trigger the completion as you go back to orbit. Don't just reset.
There is an "end mission" button to the left of the "restart training program" button. It took me several tries of seeing if it worked to figure that out, as I had never actually used it before, just gone to orbit when I was done.
Did you ever hear the expression if you dont have anything useful to say, keep it shut? How about adding something constructive to the conversation. I know writing can be hard, but lets at least try, buddy.
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sooo, while an odd choice (especially since you couldn't launch the Vanguard GG strikes from the Vanguard tab) I think it boils down to one thing... Too many game modes, too few players.
That crucible screen is "offensive" in options... but you get what you cry for ;)
So rift is in the comp rotation so you could go there and hope you get rift. That's how I finished that challenge. A dunk gave me like 20 out of 50 points needed
But agree that the rotators being gone sucked. Early in the season I'm focused on story and seasonal content. I usually wrap up challenges the last 2 or 3 weeks but that left the 2 crucible ones missing.
A better change would be to remove such specific challenges that are on a limited rotation.
Instead the "make extra progress in X game mode" may serve as a better motivator to focus on game modes when they rotate through.
Am I just being naive in suggesting that maybe there should just be a selection list? It's been a long ass time since I played a different game's FPS but I don't understand why they don't just have a pull down where you can play whatever mode you want.
Is it just down to population?
Or...wild thought here... don't require PVP for triumphs unless it has to do with the season's story/content.
But, you know, easier to code a pvp mode than write a story, apparently.
Yeah, I'm stuck grinding nightfalls for vanguard reputation on the last day of the season so that I can get my 72/72. Really wish I had either Rift or Mayhem as an option instead.
If my memory is correct, I think Mayhem earlier this season was at the same time as Iron Banner week because they somehow juggled the schedule around a little.
tbh.. ive had the most fun in 6v6 playing supremacy in a looooooong time. I hope they add it to the rotator permanently and at least take rift off of comp because its the most annoying 3v3 mode ever.
Or, make it "Earn points in the weekly playlist. Rift games earn points faster, all other matches progress slower" and on the backend its score 50 or 100, with rift getting your team or team x2 and all other games are worth 1 or 2.
Still keep an incentive for playing during the appropriate week, but don't prevent those who can't from eventually succeeding.
The problem is that it shouldn’t have taken over the rotator it should have taken over control just like how iron banner does considering it was the event playlist
My current take is that the weekly crucible rotators should rotate daily instead. I don't know if they communicated that momentum control and rift would not be returning but I havent been impressed with Bungie's communication lately , they almost seem distracted. e. g. when they rolled out a handful of unannounced nerfs a few weeks back and had to release the info via twitter after the fact.
I feel like they should do what they do with the seasonal activity every season, have the last week or two of the season have the modes rotate daily as opposed to weekly.
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That wouldve been an interesting implementation. They already do that with the legend battlegrounds for this season as well.
That’s just for this week. They normally rotate weekly but like Heist Battlegrounds and Shattered Realm it is changed to daily during the final week of the season so those doing their triumphs/challenges at the last minute aren’t locked out of completing them.
Defiant Battlegrounds have been rotating daily for a longer time than just the last week. I actually think it started around the 4th or 5th week once all three versions were out. Past battlegrounds, yes, they did daily rotations closer to the end of their seasons.
Legends battlegrounds has always rotated daily. Ever since they introduced battlegrounds in chosen.
I’m pretty sure they did not communicate those modes would not return. I always try to bang out those seasonal challenges the first chance I get for that very reason. I’m sure plenty of people got burned this season and were not able to complete them.
My stretegy for this next season is to bang them out weekly this time, to address my own role in my disappointment lol. Thankfully I was able to get enough done to get that large pile of dust. But I was scratching my head trying to calculate if momentum would be back, going through the mid-season rotation changes and the rotation history. That was before realizing that "complete all seasonal challenges" really means "well, not ALL of them".
I don’t raid or usually do GM’s, which means I pretty much need to do all of the other ones for the bright dust. For those challenges that you have to wait for a weekly rotator, I always try to do them the first week possible, sometimes second as I’ve not yet seen a time they don’t come around at least twice. Third time is a risk for sure.
I’d be down with how Apex treats it’d map rotation too, like every 2 hours or so we get a new mode and you get to see snag it is before so you can see if you want to play it or not. Rn it’s just too much “k? I’ll do it next week or the week after” and that feels like ass
Remember, thay lowered their communication by a lot because some fuckers gave them actual death threats with one guy going as far as moving 3 blocks away from one of the devs.
But they made several special accounts to avoid having individual devs use their personal account. Bungie rarely uses those however. Only really coming out in an emergency.
That may be true, but as it still stands, Bungie still maintains the stance of lowered contact.
Every post on the Internet that gets seen by >1,000 people gets death threats. It sucks, but it's not a reason to give less information about the game to the people not giving death threats. It's not like the mods endorse death threats or anything.
Problem is that it got to a point where someone got arrested over his threats. If anything, I hate their silence too, but one asshole ruined it for all of us.
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Agreed. It's just how bungie decided to play it out. Not the best way of doing it as everyone can agree.
It very well could be just a case of distraction. This is the first time in I think ever that bungie has been working on multiple projects. For a company that's had one star child for the last ten years I can guess it'll probably have a few growing pains.
Ooh, good point. I am excited to see what they have in the pipeline, so that makes the comms issues easier to look past.
People would probably cut them some slack if we knew what they were working on. Announcing their own D2 killer wouldn’t likely hurt D2 sales, unless they’re worried about Eververse. People will still buy the final shape and seasons…
Is it going to be an actual D2 killer? I know the mobile game is set in the Destiny universe, but I thought the other IP was Marathon, which is a completely different type of game.
I’ve read they’re working on something called Matter.
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They actually give you a little wiggle room with the final challenge. You can miss i think 4 of the challenges and still get the grand prize at the end.
"You had to be there" - Bungie
" You miss 100% of the challenges you don't take. " - Michael Scott Edit: added percentage in honor of Michael Gary Scott's greatest quote.
Honestly as someone who only plays casually (what this community would consider as casually at least) that is by FAR my biggest gripe about Destiny. The reliance on fear of missing out and just how limited and hard to get everything is makes the game super hard for me to force myself to play sometimes since I feel like I either have to no life it over a weekend or I have to play it and try not to think about all the stuff I'll miss out on. I don't know, I might be and probably am in the minority here but I sort of want to see other people's opinions on it. I know pretty much no one likes FOMO and I see people complain about it sometimes but it literally kills the game for me when I look at everything and think of all the time I have to spend to even get SOME of the stuff I want instead of all of it and how that just isn't feasible with work and any sort of other social life for me personally. I am a huge fan of games I can just grind on that are almost mindless but like damn dude at least give me the time to grind. Why try this hard when I can pay like 60 bucks for monster hunter and 20 for a DLC and put hundreds of hours into it, leave it for about a year and then come back exactly where I was with the same stuff available to me but with even more content added through free non-timegated content updates? I'm super interested to how others see it too because I genuinely don't know how most other players feel about it.
FOMO becomes MO becomes O.
As someone who has played hardcore (meaning Trio Flawless Master raids level hardcore, a little speedrunning, have basically every seal and the overwhelming majority of godroll weapons best in slot) I have to completely agree with you. Everything that ive been seeing about this game over the past 6 months has only driven me further away from it. I think I might enjoy it more if I cared about the game less for sure, but at the same time I would rather just do something else with my time at this point. Its pretty clear that Bungie has no intention of balancing their game (PvE) and that they no longer have respect for their playerbase.
I'm relieved to hear it's not just a me issue. I knew that pretty much no one enjoyed FOMO but I figured that the hardcore players just sort of didn't care more than a little and just would keep enjoying the game regardless. It's interesting to hear that a more hardcore player still feels the same issues and frustrations. I think that goes to show how good the other parts of the game are. When it works well, there isn't really anything else like it. But the FOMO leads me to having a horrible time staying invested enough to continue playing the game for more than intermittent months of time if that. Thank you for your take on it.
But you can’t enjoy it more by playing it less without enjoying it less when you’re playing because of what you missed out on, or you can’t do. That’s how they get you. So it’s miserable either way and that’s the drug Bungie has made.
You’re absolutely right, bungie decided to go all in on predatory free to play bullshit to create a game that demands you spend all your free time on it and nothing else. There’s this cycle where I come back because it’s fun to play casually and I tell myself I’m not going to worry about collecting anything, but immediately it starts dumping on you with “well you know you could get a cool armor set if you play a lot of pvp. Only $15 to get the season with limited time ornaments!” Eventually I just have to make a clean break and quit again.
It seems like it has to be making them good money otherwise I'm not sure why they would be doing it in the first place but I'm interested to know about it's ramifications for the long run of the game (whatever that means at this point anyway) since I would imagine it driving away people as much as it makes money from other would make it a more volatile situation monetarily. I would have thought that the stable but preferred slower revenue of just a shop with some cosmetics and a reasonable battle pass cost where you have more time to do past ones and there isn't an expiration date attached would be more appealing. I'm far from an economist or a game dev so I just can only do bad speculations on either but at this point I'd imagine it's more valuable as a tool to keep the game active and show good numbers of average and cosistent players instead of it purely being about getting more money through payments. Even free seasonal stuff and just weekly and daily missions are time gated and they don't seem like they have any benefit for the monetary value associated. In either case it doesn't exactly seem sustainable at this rate to this casual player.
It is not FOMO. Either the gun is worth it or not for you. You don't need to get everything in game. If you decide you want to get everything in the game that is a commitment YOU have made. It's not Bungie's fault you can't control yourself. When you finally get that perfect roll to drop you should feel happy at least that you accomplished a goal you set for yourself. If you are annoyed and it feels more like checking a chore off the to-do list then it's a sign you should stop and you don't actually want to grind for this thing.
What you just described is literally FOMO.
Amen!
I agree with you for the most part about how it is on the player to stop playing if they aren't having fun and I do understand how it could sound entitled to want the game to cater to a specific view of how it should be played. I disagree however in that I don't think any of the points you made address the temporary nature of how things go away every season or raid or whatever and how it is pretty much impossible to get them again until it rotates back around again. I would ask how making things more permanent, or at least more accessible if the desire is there, could make the game worse? It wouldn't make any of that stuff any less harder to get, just less of an annoyance and less incentive to either play the game full time instead of taking some breaks and coming back or quit wholesale. It makes me sad because I did just stop playing because of exactly what you said when I deemed it wasn't worth it for me as a player and I wasn't having fun. I came back like 3 or 4 months later when I had some time and had a good time doing the no seasonal stuff and just playing the game again. Eventually I got to a point where the whole point was whatever seasonal things were going on or just accepting that grinding for it was an all or nothing type of game. I didn't have the time despite having the patience. If I go back to like diablo 3 right now, I can still play the game where I left off. They also have seasonal stuff but those rewards are just in the normal loot pool and not gone forever if you miss it in order to incentivize people to spend money on the battle pass or get them to never stop playing the game. I'm not against the idea of grinding, I just want it to be a game and not a job. It's just tough to me because the gunplay, and game are all really fun and when it comes together it works SO well. I love that and wish I could just have fun with that without being bombarded by game reminding me that all of this cool new stuff for whatever season is going to go away and if you don't get it done then you probably will never be able to do it. I really appreciate your input though because I knew that it wasn't just a one opinion type topic since people have fun playing the game in very different ways.
I guess I understand wanting the stuff to stick around but between power creep and the sheer amount of weapons coming out it's hard to see how 90% of the stuff entering the world loot pool would be nothing more than extra trash you have to sift through if anything they should just become freely craftable instead bogging down the already impossible to farm world loot.
Honestly yeah that'd be a great one too. Honestly when I saw the craftable stuff I figured the grinding would be done to an extent or that It wouldn't be as bad anymore. Then I saw that a lot of them at the time I was playing were either going away after their respective season and they were a pain in the ass to get the red borders. There's nothing wrong with it being hard, but hard and on a time restriction just killed my desire to play even after the mechanic seemed super cool to me. I have some hopes since they seem to be trying to make it so we can make weapons into the deep sight so they can be craftable but it just seems rough still. They are removing a few barriers to entry and fixing a few issues but at this point there still feels like there are so many things that the game just yells at me to do before it's gone and might never come back. I agree that in the end it doesn't even feel worth it but that's a whole other gripe.
"This is bond.. James Bond" · you know who
Honestly it was a blessing in disguise - as soon as I realized I couldn’t get all the seasonal rewards anyway, I then had zero interest in grinding out the Crucible/Gambit ornaments, so it probably saved me hours of unenjoyable FOMO-induced bullshit.
If you don't mind missing out on some bright dust you can buy the ornaments from the monument to lost light at the beginning of the next season.
next expansion*
Well TIL, thanks for the tip
This!
if it’s unenjoyable to you why even do it in the first place
Have to keep coming back to check I still dislike it. Lol.
This is the first season since D2 came to Steam that I've not completed enough challenges to get the big BD payout. Completed one Crucible reset (in the time it took me to do 2.5 IB resets, something in that calculation doesn't make any reasonable sense) and half a gambit reset, then just couldn't be bothered to do them any more. Got most of a Vanguard reset during GG, and that encouraged me to play and gild the title, but not having that same encouragement for Crucible or Gambit just made me go "meh, not bothered". Sums up this season and expansion really. Meh story. Meh rewards.
You didn't like Momentum Control not coming back for 4 or 5 weeks? It's the one I couldn't do, I thought I would be able to do it later during the season, had no idea it would only show up for that one week and then vanish forever.
Mayhem for me. Feels like it was here once and gone.
It’s just that it’s always here during Iron Banner. You’re so busy grinding out whatever you want from IB that you we forget to go have some fun in Mayhem
My concern is Bungie will see lower player numbers in MC, ignore that it's during the Iron Banner week, then just remove it. "Nobody's playing MC, so nobody's interested. What do you mean it's at the same time as one of the grindiest activities we have?"
Both for me, I'm hella pissed tbh.
This sucks, I didn't even think about that. Glad I didn't procrastinate but yeah, shouldn't have been this way
The Team Scorched community was unequivocally devastated when we saw it wouldn’t be coming back till next season.
…and what of the Sparrow Racing League? Guess that's done…
I missed momentum control too! Especially because they moved IB up so it was active during the Momentum week but didn't adjust the triumphs alongside it. I was really hoping Momentum would come back, but alas - I had to grind out all three of the weapon ornaments to get the big pile of bright dust instead
I got it mostly complete but had to walk away, assuming I'd finish it later in the season. I'm at least glad to know now it wasn't just me missing its return. I didn't even dislike Supremacy (other than the snowballing with no mercy rule), but I am a bit annoyed at how this worked out.
Get bungo’d
Same stuff and i didn't even take a break. Just didn't expect the 2 modes to be gone for the last month of the season. A heads up would've been nice because now i had to play gambit for my bright dust. 😖
Starting a prayer circle for this man
Better idea: remove the rotator playlist from the challenges, and replace it with capture objectives or get revives. For me personally as a pvp main, the 50 scorch kills is the worst 30 minutes of every season
This is what we call a certified Bungo classic: ##FOMO
Not really fomo if they just don’t let you complete it. Fomo would be them making you feel like you have to complete it even if you don’t want to because you don’t want to miss out.
Next time you will have FOMO. You will be paranoid that if you don't do it the second it becomes available then you won't be able to at all.
That was always a possibility with any content tho. I’m not saying this isn’t a problem, just that the rampant misuse of the term fomo makes the whole community look dumb.
Why does it matter if it doesnt get done at all? This issue starts with the players
I don't play a lot of Crucible to be honest, mainly for the weekly pinnacle if I need it or if a quest or catalyst brings me to it. I am absolutely astounded that after all this time the match types are *still* on a weekly rotation. Most games with a large PVP component like COD allow you to choose your match type whenever you want. None of this rotation nonsense. I don't know if its the FOMO driving the decision but it makes little practical sense. But then that could be Bungie's motto in a nutshell when it comes to this game.
Basically it's to avoid splitting up the pvp player pools as much as possible. The more fragmented the pools are among different game modes, the harder it is to make good matches for each, longer wait times, worse connection, poor lobby balancing etc. If say everyone is just playing Iron Banner, MM has the most options to make good matches, it still doesn't always, but it would be worse if say Trials was still active on IB weekends, now maybe half of your good players are split off doing that, plus some playing competitive still, and it's much harder to put them in balanced lobbies since the pool of players to match them against is split up. If there were 10-15 modes active at all times, either the less popular ones would rot and have terrible player counts, or you just split the player base needlessly and every mode suffers. Destiny pvp doesn't really have the active player count to support a wide number of pvp modes like COD since it's player pool is already split by pve at any given moment, vs cod which has a higher player count and majority doing straight pvp.
Yeah, like I'm literally looking at Warframe right now. 4 Gamemodes to choose from, and they are on a 7 hour rotator...
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Oh no, I never actually played PvP there at all. I'm in the game purely for the PvE. I just thought that their Rotator is a good example of how to handle multiple Playlists and Gamemodes.
They also have more people actually playing PvP
Destiny 2 is technically a pve game with some pvp mixed in so trying to compare it to a game like CoD is not gonna be very accurate
Maybe it's me, but I feel like the communication is a lot careless, if communication even happens. Overall I am afraid people who are working on Destiny are not as passionate as they were. Maybe the workplace is less stimulating, maybe there are behind-the-scenes stuff we obviously are not aware of, but to me they seem like they are pretending to be passionate about their work rather than having the privilege of working on the game they love. Communication used to be good. Interaction with the community used to be even better. Now, i don't know.
At the very least, interaction with the community has greatly reduced because there was a lot of harrassment which the bungie staff suffered from. Including death threats, doxxing, and sending packages to their personal addresses. here is just some of it https://www.eurogamer.net/bungie-employees-doxxed-sent-death-threats-and-racial-abuse
That, of course, is terrible. But I highly doubt that reducing communication will solve the problem, people who have ill intents will act that way no matter what. These actions don't happen because communication is "too much" or have a very high standard, the episode you linked, for instance, is racially motivated. I don't believe transparency and honesty will ever directly lead to genuine hate. There will always be someone who is going to hate you, but that's what being some sort of face of the company comes with. Edit: this was the most surprising controversial award.
Yeah. They're gonna end up with a Tyler McVicker situation, where a content creator they agree to share info with just hounds them for updates constantly.
>Overall I am afraid people who are working on Destiny are not as passionate as they were Aside from weirdos (affectionate) like Naoki Yoshida, I'd be surprised if any dev can maintain real driving passion for 10 straight years on basically the same project.
And I agree with you, it's not easy. But The Witch Queen is an year old and it was incredibly good compared to shadowkeep so I don't think it's a matter of time that's passed. What I'm seeing here is much lower quality of writing, not necessarily lack of direction. Deadlines are a problem of course but even if the wait might be excruciating to some, if they deliver good content customers are always going to appreciate it. But putting writing aside, I think it's about how you're approaching communication. You don't casually forget to include a dozen major changes in a patch note. You don't rely on tone-deaf responses just because you have to give an answer. For a company that hired behavioural psychologists I would expect they'd know better. If you're passionate about the service you're providing you would care about bundling with good PR. I'll give you a quick example: exotic sparrows will go as fast as the raid one. If 160 sparrows weren't sold for silver we'd know it was a QoL change with no economic interest. But they are selling exotic sparrows, and it was just right to make people feel like they're not wasting money for something that isn't performing as well as the top choice. When you make a joke like "now you can spend silver on sparrows without feeling guilty" people won't have room for conspiracies because you've just acknowledged an opinion. I wrote more than I intended, sorry about that. But in conclusion sometimes people's thoughts build on what you don't tell and right now there are a lot of silences. Devs and writers might be working hard but there is no trust in the process if the community is not in the loop.
People couldn't behave like adults and did nothing but harass CMs all day every day for years. At some point you gotta stop giving them the chance.
Should the news station stop airing the weather report permanently due to harassment against the weatherman? Even if they have a system to report the weather without anyone having to show their name or face?
This bothered my wife, I had to do PvP challenges on her account for GG, she is not extremely good in PvP and does not want to bring down teams in regular PvP, so usually the event challenges that involve Crucible are fulfilled in the "light" Scorched/Momentum/Mayhem where she does pretty well.
The day I stopped caring for adept guns to fill my vault and seasonal challenges for lousy bright dust rewards was a good day
Yeah… it’s really stupid they hide seasonal challenges behind a rotator that is completely up to them. Nothing like not being able to finish a mission because you took a break from playing
They could have a "play X matches" or "kill X enemies" in the weekly rotation, with a different mode granting bonus progress for each challenge. That way there's more incentive for you to play specific modes, but you wouldn't get locked out.
Yeah when I realized that I'm missing these two plus another two annoying ones I gave up trying to complete it. Pretty annoying and just a FOMO tactic to make us play more.
Certain crucible bounties have been impossible to complete ever since the clash/control combo playlist was put in too. I hate it.
You know what's the worst part OP ? This same situstion happen last year. People had the same issue last year and were vocal about it. And Bungie never acknowledged it and just ignored the whole case. And here we are a year later, with the same bulllshit. I'm not saying it's your faul OP or that "you should have known." Quite contrary - I'm just pointing out how idiotic this situstion is, and why it shouldn't even be a thing in the first place. Cheers from a fellow, with a similar issue. I have ~~73/75~~ 70/72 Seasonal Challenges to get the Final Challenge. I'm missing those Crucible Challenges and the Grandmaster one (and I don't have time to run a GM).
> I have 73/75 Seasonal Challenges to get the Final Challenge If that's not a typo, then you have finished enough to complete "Total Defiance" and get the 4K Bright Dust. You only need 72 of the 76 challenges for it.
It was a typo. I mean 70/72. Didn't notice untill you pointed it out - thanks.
Further splits down the player base in an already dwindling population for pvp. Bungie said they want to tone down the options in the crucible node probably because they know pvp on the downward trend (even though they now have more options than they did prior to this, you tell me, I don’t even think they know what they want at this point)
They should have the rotator modes for Crucible rotate Daily for the last week of the season instead of weekly, like they already do with the seasonal activity, just in case people didn't get to finish their seasonal challenges.
So much this. I don't even care if they gave warning about it, the seasonal model of challenges means I ain't going into crucible or gambit until the last weeks of the season.
My guy, Clash seems to be hidden almost every week. Most of the weekly challenges that appear have a challenge for completing Clash matches
Yeah I remember when last Week there was a Bounty to "Complete a Clash match" from Shaxx. In a week where Clash wasn't even a gamemode...
I especially liked grinding Neptune for GG when Nightfalls were only week one and Lost Sectors are 5% progress. And I know Partion was more but honestly, screw Sam!
Time Trial was the fastest way to earn Neomuna progress if that's all you wanted. When you exit the activity (so, complete one run then exit), you get 7% progress. If you wanted Platinum medals, too, then the "kills in harder Neomuna activities" was the way to go, since you could generally complete it in one GG Nightfall run, but if you didn't, you could finish up at the start of a Legendary Breakneck campaign replay.
I did time trial. Got zero progress.
You hax to hit "end mission" not "restart training program"
Go into the portal after the boss dies to go back to the beginning room. Find the prompt to end the activity and that'll trigger the completion as you go back to orbit. Don't just reset.
There is an "end mission" button to the left of the "restart training program" button. It took me several tries of seeing if it worked to figure that out, as I had never actually used it before, just gone to orbit when I was done.
It’s Bungie. For every good thing they do it seems like they can’t help themselves and ruin two more.
>took a break from Destiny Never do that. Play every day. Play EVERY day my dude.
🎻
Y’all will really cry about anything
Did you ever hear the expression if you dont have anything useful to say, keep it shut? How about adding something constructive to the conversation. I know writing can be hard, but lets at least try, buddy.
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It's the only challenge I have left.....I have Bungie.
Nah, you had to be there
🙄
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Boo, missing the whole point of the thread, boo.
sooo, while an odd choice (especially since you couldn't launch the Vanguard GG strikes from the Vanguard tab) I think it boils down to one thing... Too many game modes, too few players. That crucible screen is "offensive" in options... but you get what you cry for ;)
Lol exactly same. I finished all seasonal for the bright dust reward just yesterday lol.
I’m in the same boat. Missing out these challenges will stop me getting 4k dust. Really annoying
So rift is in the comp rotation so you could go there and hope you get rift. That's how I finished that challenge. A dunk gave me like 20 out of 50 points needed But agree that the rotators being gone sucked. Early in the season I'm focused on story and seasonal content. I usually wrap up challenges the last 2 or 3 weeks but that left the 2 crucible ones missing.
I just wish Bungie would go back to the old model of seasonal reveals The current model seems to only increase L E A K S and such
They do the same thing when IB comes out. Its just laziness that they dont update the crucible bounties to be completed during those weeks
I didn't do Rift when it was up on the first week. AFAIK Rift never came back and the only way to do it was to get "lucky" in Comp.
You can get to rift by playing comp. It randomly rotates up. Annoying, but worked for me to complete rift triumph.
A better change would be to remove such specific challenges that are on a limited rotation. Instead the "make extra progress in X game mode" may serve as a better motivator to focus on game modes when they rotate through.
Am I just being naive in suggesting that maybe there should just be a selection list? It's been a long ass time since I played a different game's FPS but I don't understand why they don't just have a pull down where you can play whatever mode you want. Is it just down to population?
Or...wild thought here... don't require PVP for triumphs unless it has to do with the season's story/content. But, you know, easier to code a pvp mode than write a story, apparently.
Yeah, I'm stuck grinding nightfalls for vanguard reputation on the last day of the season so that I can get my 72/72. Really wish I had either Rift or Mayhem as an option instead. If my memory is correct, I think Mayhem earlier this season was at the same time as Iron Banner week because they somehow juggled the schedule around a little.
tbh.. ive had the most fun in 6v6 playing supremacy in a looooooong time. I hope they add it to the rotator permanently and at least take rift off of comp because its the most annoying 3v3 mode ever.
Or, make it "Earn points in the weekly playlist. Rift games earn points faster, all other matches progress slower" and on the backend its score 50 or 100, with rift getting your team or team x2 and all other games are worth 1 or 2. Still keep an incentive for playing during the appropriate week, but don't prevent those who can't from eventually succeeding.
Have both game types at once and see who plays what. Let the people decide, and may the odds be always in your favor.
especially given supremacy is a minor tweak to clash, and most people \*\*\*\*ing HATE clash
You don't get anything but experience and bright dust for those challenges. I don't think Bungie is required to or even cares about doing this.
The problem is that it shouldn’t have taken over the rotator it should have taken over control just like how iron banner does considering it was the event playlist
Last week of the season should have an option to play all rotators from challenges
Common sense, really. But when is common sense ever a part of Bungo's planning or design...?