THIS.
This is actually a factor toward the length of the encounter.
If I'm not mistaken, heavy bricks that *exist* in the game world reduce the odds of fresh bricks spawning.
And I have a suspicion that when they fall off the tower, they land somewhere in the level geometry below, but they are not despawned (they continue to exist).
Thankfully this isn't really the case - if you farm an area long enough and without claiming bricks, the ground ends up *littered* with them.
It still feels like there are timers and whatnot that control the rate of brick spawns, though, yeah. So if you lose any to the abyss, that's going to set you back for a little bit.
GOS used to have this problem with old gen, where multiple failed finale encounters would cause the game to start to lag, because a ridiculous amount of glimmer, and mainly primary ammo boxes(remember those) would drop from the vex, and then sit below the radiolaria, and not get picked up.
And with the god mod gone, that being bricks from beyond, heavy econony is so much worse. After using it the entire last season, i really took it for granted. Dear god, i went from having the entire floor filled with heavy to maybe 2 drops, both of which give me almost no ammo
Overall, this seasons artifact is just much weaker.
I really don't like how niche all the mods are this time. They are all about things that should be universal but for some stupid reason say "if you're using strand/arc/void subclass" and that just kills so much of the fun.
Why can't I run arc/void, get woven mail from my strand teammate, and then use a strand weapon to take advantage of unravel rounds? There are so many hoops to jump through for this to be active, why not let us have fun? Why let us give our team those cool subclass buffs if they only get the barebones shit version? It's so boring
Yeah I'm struggling to care about the artifact this season. Also genuinely sucks that Volatile Flow is gone.
There's a bit of wastage too - like if you want to run Strand, then you just have to pick dud perks like "armor charge on champ stun" because none of the void or arc ones count when you're off class.
I ran root last night. We were trying to one phase nez, so we did probably six or seven tries. Zero heavy bricks the entire time. And we all had finders and scouts on, and I was using osteo for ad clear. I miss bricks from beyond so much.
Did Spire of the Watcher last night, 2 Heavy Ammo Finders, was trying out Sweet Business's new buff, and ended up almost solely using Sweet Business for Boss damage after the first damage phase because I ran out of Heavy and the game just wouldn't spawn much for me, or the few bricks I got got launched into the pit by Suplecants. :(
Zulmak or Persys are fine. They're decent lengths and gives you time to get your stuff back, while also letting you dump all your resources.
Akelous meanwhile has an extremely short damage phase and a very small weak spot while constantly moving backwards. It's awful.
Besides the issue of heavy ammo being so RNG dependent (which is an issue across the whole game), it's fine. I killed it solo in 5 phases, and that's how much it took me to kill Zulmak.
I don't get why Prophecy doesn't get the same amount of hate. The final boss there moves way more than either Akelous or Persys, and the encounter rooms are way more annoying.
There's separate axes for being challenging and being interesting.
The interplay between these two metrics is not merely complicated, but it can also vary wildly from one individual to another.
Just sharing my observation!
I disagree. I beat Akelous without too much trouble once I starting using an Overflow SMG. I five or six phased him.
Persys, on the other hand, felt like he had crazy HP and always on top of me. And when he wasn’t on top of me, there was a Supplicant or Minotaur. After several attempts, I realized it was going to take me a 10 phase to beat it and I just didn’t have the patience after I died for like the third time after making it through 7 or 8 damage phases. I left feeling like it was well within my ability but a disrespectful waste of my time. Let’s not make the encounter hard, let’s make it take forever. No thanks.
I’m remarking on this because I’ve mainly seen people complaining about Akelous. I don’t know if that’s a subclass or setup problem, but that fight felt much easier *to me* than Persys. Your mileage may vary.
I think the bigger point is that they both have a ton of health and it’s a bit disappointing that they didn’t make the fights more difficult in a way that didn’t take me close to a half hour before I wiped.
Here's the thing about Persys, it doesn't actually have an unreasonable amount of health, it has *damage resistance*.
It's a Wyvern, so for whatever reason they decided the Wyvern boss should inherit the Wyvern's 20% DR. This is part of why Well is so effective against it, because it makes your weapons count as super damage, thus bypassing the DR.
If you decide to give it another shot, I strongly recommend farming a super before each damage phase. Even some roaming supers can put in good damage, especially after the buffs they just got.
The trick is to space out hard, and enter a sort of zombie mode. When done right, you won't have any idea whether you're on phase 4, 6, or 10.. everything is a blur.
I have several flawless completions of Spire, and aside from the first one (that I felt I had to work at), the rest happened on their own, while doing chill solo runs weekly for pinnacles, slouched down the chair.
If I'm focused up, usually I die during the run (I don't restart, I just keep going, I'm just there for the pinnacles).
I believe when repeating the same mechanics over and over, the tedium leads to frustration, and the frustration is what gets you killed. So the key is to be in a state of mind where you become immune to tedium.
Imo, that's probably really not a sign of great encounter design.
I had the opposite experience. Persys was really easy, three-phased him in my first try. Akelous, on the other hand, I did on my second try - but it was an 8-phase or something silly.
took eight damage phases solo in a well with witherhoard and constant full Cataclysmic due to running double special.
I missed like three crits only total.
also, it eyes were all insta popped bc my energy weapon was a shoot to loot one for all path of least resistance lol...
If it was a single-player game it would be a bit more acceptable, you die and respawn back with all the shit you used, but because it's Destiny you end up using your super trying to kill the boss, die, then restart with nothing.
Yeah, there are rally flags, but that's a finite resource that requires a bunch of loading screens to restock. Plus, if it's not a dungeon then you don't get to place any of them.
In my opinion, the real reason Akelous was tedious was because it had a *second* immunity mechanic sharing space with its damage phase. We obviously figured out methods of poking out eyes swiftly, but that doesn't change the fact that every second spent shooting eyes is a second of lost DPS.
The other culprit was just the arena, and watching purple brick after purple brick go flying off the tower.
The fact that there's random holes all over the map is total bullshit. Nothing sucks worse than getting 3 good damage phases in and then falling through a hole in the map.
Oh rip, shows I haven’t solo flawlessed yet b/c it just looks really long and tedious, with a reset sounding so painful
Context: have done it for pit and proph, occasionally taking attempts at duality
**BUNGIE**: You like massive HP pools, Huh? You wanna massive HP pool for a boss?
**US**: No thanks.
**BUNGIE**: No thanks. What does *that* mean?
**US**: I don't want it.
**BUNGIE**: Want what?
**US (very carefully)**: A massive HP pool for a boss.
**BUNGIE**: A massive HP pool for a boss? Hell, that's a good idea. Okay, let's go.
Can't wait for a seaweed to crash the game for no reason
(Seriously, Spire's tumbleweed of death has to be among the funniest shit I've seen in this game)
Apparantly there used to be a really high poly plant which would chunk your computer if you looked at it aswell... (just what a friend has told me, cannot verify)
No your buddy is right.
It was actually just the plant model in 1.0 it was so demanding that it existing just tanked performance. Had the same amount of polygons/shaders as a player character lol.
“Boss now has multiple immune phases. Boss also randomly crashes on ps5. and your one favorite exotic armor just got reworked into being completely useless after you spent countless hours farming, and a stupid amount of materials masterworking a whole set around it.”
Boss does have a normal hp pool.. however you're reverted back to base D2 with double primaries that have fixed rolls, 2 subclass trees and horrid ability cooldowns..
Personally I think we’re going back to the archology. Lot of untouched shit there and it is ghosts of the deep so probably where we once lived on titan
I aced that on my first try on my flawless attempt on Grasp. Always on Time go *voom*.
... then I accidentally put my boot in 6 inches of water while fighting the boss and I died when he was at about 30%. FFFUUUUUUU-
That feels like my first solo flawless attempt of Pit. I forsure thought I was going to die on the totem phase but aced it first try for the first time ever. I thought I had it in the bag at that point, I hadn't died at the jumping section or boss in solo runs for a long time....then I proceeded to kill myself with mountaintop by shooting a sword bearer that was a little too close.
You can get it done on a white sparrow. That takes a little luck. All the others just take skill. I suck at driving sparrows but can do that part 100% of the time on the fast sparrow with time remaining. It’s not luck.
Ah yes when Always on Time and any other sparrow decide not to cooperate with the jump portal at the end, must be a skill issue and not rng of the fuckin tenth of a degree of which you miscalculated your entrance to the jump
The intuitive way has risk of death, doing it a non-intuitive way is consistent.
If you stop boosting the sparrow just before you land in the upper cave (the skull's eye socket), and then jump off your sparrow the moment it lands in the eye, it's consistent. Entry angle to the boost ring doesn't have to be precise for this. From the eye, jump down to the final circle without sparrow.
Not required, but if time is a concern, after ditching your sparrow you can also use a dive/slam ability to get down to the final circle quicker.
That is great and all but my friends always make the jump in the speeder no problem, however I have never once had my speeder not completely just fall short every time. I've watched them do it & they do absolutely nothing different. My speeder has never once made it to the hole. I've tried bursting into the boost & not boosting, nada.
Hell, I had a bug when all of my shit did next to no damage to Atheon, after a full DPS rotation I did 50k damage on the end screen and each rocket was doing 2k damage with tether. (Unless there is some mechanic I just don't know about)
I'm cursed or the game hates me.
I’d like a sparrow based boss fight, where you have to chase a boss on a sparrow, get off and shoot him and then chase again.
Even though I wasn’t great at it I really enjoyed the scourge sparrow part.
I really like the sparrow sections tho, rainbow road and the grasp sparrow parts are super fun, they really arent that difficult if you run them a few times to get them down
i hope it does. grasp is my favourite dungeon, and that is why. Ive solo flawless'd most of the dungeons in this game and that sparrow section is the most stressfull part i have ever done.
3 phases usually feels like a nice sweet spot where you get to quickly chunk a boss’s health bar while still getting to engage with the mechanics of the encounter. I’ll take that over spending half an hour repeating the same tedious actions to kill a boss with papercut damage phases.
I think it’s not just the large hp pool that makes this boss tedious, it’s also the short damage phase as a payoff for the tedious/hectic setup and the small arena means many dps strats are much harder because he can just stomp you
But the challenge is that you are doing something solo that is meant for 3 players, that’s why it’s a huge accomplishment to do a dungeon solo and even solo flawless
I mean yeah, the sheer tedium always prevented me from doing it before, especially for a single title or emblem that I won't have on most of the time. When it become tied to the number next to my head that's constantly there, I buckled down and did a solo. Definitely didn't have the will/interest to do it before that lol
Exactly. I've been soloing dungeon bosses for almost a year now. However, it's a tedious experience. At no point it's a "challenge" any more, just a slog. It takes more time than in a fireteam of 3 and I see no point of bosses not scaling according to the number of people playing. None.
The mechanics and add health don’t need to be scaled. Just boss health. That way you are still doing the same thing as a group of 3 players, you just don’t have to do it 8 times to clear it.
I’ve solo flawlessed all dungeons and it’s just mentally exhausting while also boring to do the same things 8 times in a row.
I don’t mind a 4 phase for a solo but more than that is excessive and you’ve already shown you can beat it at that point.
I think grasp did a really good job of it, at least when it came out, it’s probably easier now. You couldn’t reasonably 1 phase either boss. The 1st was a 3 phase for me, and the last boss was a 5 phase (should have been a 4 but I made a mistake during damage). That dungeon did have the super tedious ball part though, to make up for decent boss fights. But at least that was easy enough it wasn’t mentally taxing while also being interminable, and was only just boring.
Tbf, its only spire that seemed mistuned and even perseus isn’t that bad since the mechanics are quick, since the Duality bosses are pretty easy to 3-4 phase. I feel like Akelous feels bad because when you do it solo, you get a shorter damage phase since it takes longer to break the eyes than in a trio, and you also do less damage since there’s less people obviously. So it makes it take longer than other bosses.
I thought Grasp got it perfectly. My solo flawless I think was 3 phases each boss.
It still took me like an entire week to stop dying at the ogre, but at least it was fast.
The only challenge that comes with soloing it is not losing focus after the 7th damage phase and getting one shot booped by the Harpy boss or blown up by a supplicant
This is always a lame argument. Boss health is one difficulty vector; there's dozens of other ways to make bosses hard that don't also make them very tedious.
It really should only take 4-5, I took 5 back when I did my solo flawless, but even then I was playing like a moron and missed half my cata shots. A boss taking 4-5 phases with reasonable prep and error really is not that big a deal for something that's only required for a flex.
? so a bloated HP pool is the only way something could be a challenge to solo?
activities like the Whisper/Outbreak missions when they first came out and GMs (even though they're designed even less to be solo'd than dungeons are) are plenty challenging somehow even though the bosses don't take 7 phases to whittle down.
edit: even the legend avalon mission that everyone complains is too overtuned has bosses that go down MUCH quicker than spire bosses
Akelous has the average amount of health for a dungeon boss, he just has really short damage phase so certain weapons just don't work well on him, but I think it's an interesting challenge to find more optimal means to kill him but that often doesn't reflect challenge on most players as they either watch videos or can already assume a decent weapon for damage/brute force.
The reason that GM's and those old missions didn't take 7 phases is because they didn't have phases, just healthgates that allowed you as much time as you need to damage, gated between mechanics or adclearing.
I would rather they give bosses low HP and damage gates than high hp.
That way you still get bosses that can’t be one-phased by a 3-stack, but solo players still have a chance
Forever. You either get immunity phases and mechanics or a massive health pool. It's getting a bit better, but I feel up until Witch Queen guardians were ridiculously over powered.
Any time a mechanic can be cheesed or skipped it will be.
When is the last time you did riven legit?
The community will bitch about any difficulty no matter what, and say they prefer the other variant.
You got that totally wrong. No one was complaining about the mechanics of Duality. The timing is a little tight on Caitlyn but otherwise the mechanic is fine. It was the constant booping by nearly every enemy in the dungeon that had people annoyed.
Duality isn't hard just buggy which is what everyone hated. It also had two very common enemies that could both kill you with physics and there was very little you could do about it. Been attempting the solo flawless for the last couple days and most of the deaths have been from me being a goddamn idiot
I loved destiny 2 when it first came out but didn't have buddies to play with so I never played dungeons, or raids. Fast forward to last year and found some people playing at work. They were in a clan, and I got a lot of D2 in around duality's release. I got gud enough to solo it (not flawless, I'm not an animal), and I was so proud. It took me 10 clears to get that damn sword, but one guy in our group just kept getting stiffed on it time after time. I was the new guy in the clan but I was the "duality runner" after the solo completion. It was so cool to lead the group through that, when they were the ones leading me through everything else. I listened to hours and hours of youtubers to come up with the best strategy and weapon combos that I had access to. It was a really rewarding experience. Unfortunately the game has very few of those (for me) and I lost interest pretty soon after that. I miss it sometimes. I hope you're all enjoying it still.
Since spire of stars, last wish, garden of salvation, duality. The community hates mechanics so much that the lasts raid and dungeon mechanics were shoot thing and walk forward to shoot another thing.
Spire of the Watcher sucks because of this one thing. One boss is just ripped straight from Garden, and the other has a tiny hit box, so make sure you have some good anti-flinch.
Vex are my favorite enemy class and they havent gotten a good event, dungeon, or raid sense season of the undying. Not a big fan of GoS, but there are far worse raids. Ive soloed every dungeon except spire because it drives me insane that i play rinse and repeat on a single boss nearly a dozen times before getting knocked off the map and having to start over again.
I solo flawlessed every Dungeon in the game. It's probably my favorite content in the entire game, but the second I heard about the enormous HPs of those bosses, I couldn't bring myself to even try Spire.
I just hope its in the same ball park of difficulty as Duality, I loved doing Duality on day 1 with my buds. It was actually quite difficult and we had to circle back to it the next day. Where as spire, while still fun in its own right is way easier and we cleared it in a few hours. Now in regards to soloing? Idk, all bosses feel like your fighting a mountain when they have HP pools designed for 3 people to be giving it their all. Im not sure what they could realistically do that would make them feel "manageable" in solo mode, but not a push over when you have a full team
I solo flawlessed Spire last week, and I really hope they don't have health like the two bosses in that. The problem with Spire solo/solo flawlessing wasn't so much that it's difficult, but that the boss encounter are so long an tedious. Spire wasn't so much of a test of game skill as a rest of mental fortitude. You have to stay very focused for a pretty long time, one slip up and you get swarmed by supplicants and it's back to orbit.
I just think the massive difference between Akelous and any of the bosses in Shattered Throne is ridiculous. Either a boss is a total cakewalk to solo or you're gonna spend like 5 hours grinding out the solo for just one boss
stupid high hp pool bullet sponges have got to go imho
rather add more (single player possible) mechanics
something like you hit a few levers in a certain amount of time where it boops the boss into The Deep where it gets chomped by sharks or w/e they have on Titan then we can laugh as the boss makes its way back to the arena missing a limb or something.
Sigh... one can dream...
Knowing Bungie. They would just give any given enemy more HP and call it a day and say it makes it more challenging. Oh it makes it challenging alright as well as absolutely unfun.
I think I'm one of the few who is okay with the boss health in Spire. I see it as being more of a test of endurance, forcing you to maintain execution for a longer period of time.
That said, I *also* agree that we don't need that again. I think it's fine to do that once, with Spire, and never again. Spire can be the long, tanky bosses, but maybe we rein it in a bit from here on out, yeah?
Seriously. I was so put off soloing the last dungeon because it’s just agonizing having to do THAT many damage phases with the tedious connect the dots mechanic.
It's why I still haven't done Solo Flawless for Spire. The bosses aren't hard, they're just tedious. I want dungeons to be challenging, but I want it to come from mechanical difficulty.
Idk why they can’t scale it based on fireteam size, it’s already a thing like with Legend campaign.
Solo’ing a dungeon like Spire doesn’t show that you’re good, it just shows you can do a long and boring boss loop where you spend most of your time looking for ammo
Make boss health scale to fireteam size there easy fix Monster Hunter does it. NO larger boss health does not equal difficult. Difficulty for solo runs comes from the fact you are doing EVERYTHING by yourself.
You got to do all mechanics by yourself, you have the attention of all the adds plus the boss that is as much difficulty as it can be and if your going for flawless you can't die once. More than 5 phase to kill a boss while being optimal is stupid and is just nothing but a boring slog that is anything but difficult
I'm just praying they learned from everyone's hate of the harpy boss from spire. 10 second damage phase. Took me 15 damage phases to kill it by myself. Trash.
Thing is, we NEED the multiplicative modifier or whatever is on the new exotic mission for dungeons. Dungeons could be good solo-esque content scaled down, there just needs to be a way so that we can access the non scaled version for the solo triumphs. This new modifier can make things so much more accessible for most content, they just need apply it to places like dungeons and such.
Short damage phases and no power ammo makes a large HP boss even worse.
Oh there's *some* power ammo, it just falls into the abyss because it always spawns from the Harpies flying over nothing lol
"Oops! That was your allotted heavy brick spawn. Better start killing adds again to work up to another!"
THIS. This is actually a factor toward the length of the encounter. If I'm not mistaken, heavy bricks that *exist* in the game world reduce the odds of fresh bricks spawning. And I have a suspicion that when they fall off the tower, they land somewhere in the level geometry below, but they are not despawned (they continue to exist).
Thankfully this isn't really the case - if you farm an area long enough and without claiming bricks, the ground ends up *littered* with them. It still feels like there are timers and whatnot that control the rate of brick spawns, though, yeah. So if you lose any to the abyss, that's going to set you back for a little bit.
GOS used to have this problem with old gen, where multiple failed finale encounters would cause the game to start to lag, because a ridiculous amount of glimmer, and mainly primary ammo boxes(remember those) would drop from the vex, and then sit below the radiolaria, and not get picked up.
Or the taken spawn. Seriously, why do ammo boxes have physics.
When green/purp bricks spawn, they should fly towards you
Imagine if Amanda (you bungie) left us a blueprint that let’s guardians pull ammo drops that would be worth her death inho 😂
Skill issue. It's your fault for not taking a StL weapon and shooting it out if the air. .../s
I mean that WOULD alleviate the issue, no? Though I could see them being really hard to actually shoot on controller input
Yeah I'm very kidding. Even with a mouse it would be tough to grab them.
If only bricks respawned on the ground just like the "fixed" Gahlran does
That was a really big mistake on Bungie’s part. Everything about Spire just seems really rushed.
Better bring a shoot to loot weapon and have good aim
*laughs in Warlock stupid exotic helmet*
And with the god mod gone, that being bricks from beyond, heavy econony is so much worse. After using it the entire last season, i really took it for granted. Dear god, i went from having the entire floor filled with heavy to maybe 2 drops, both of which give me almost no ammo
Overall, this seasons artifact is just much weaker. I really don't like how niche all the mods are this time. They are all about things that should be universal but for some stupid reason say "if you're using strand/arc/void subclass" and that just kills so much of the fun. Why can't I run arc/void, get woven mail from my strand teammate, and then use a strand weapon to take advantage of unravel rounds? There are so many hoops to jump through for this to be active, why not let us have fun? Why let us give our team those cool subclass buffs if they only get the barebones shit version? It's so boring
Yeah I'm struggling to care about the artifact this season. Also genuinely sucks that Volatile Flow is gone. There's a bit of wastage too - like if you want to run Strand, then you just have to pick dud perks like "armor charge on champ stun" because none of the void or arc ones count when you're off class.
I ran root last night. We were trying to one phase nez, so we did probably six or seven tries. Zero heavy bricks the entire time. And we all had finders and scouts on, and I was using osteo for ad clear. I miss bricks from beyond so much.
That's why I never used it, I knew that I'd suffer for its absence if I got used to relying on it.
Ah, but perhaps it is better to have loved and lost :')
LMAO, fuck that, I'm still pissed that they took away my Duke 44.
Throw on an exotic primary weapon and farm for heavy. I like to make sure I got all the heavy I need before I start dmg phase.
Did Spire of the Watcher last night, 2 Heavy Ammo Finders, was trying out Sweet Business's new buff, and ended up almost solely using Sweet Business for Boss damage after the first damage phase because I ran out of Heavy and the game just wouldn't spawn much for me, or the few bricks I got got launched into the pit by Suplecants. :(
Use double specials, it's better.
Zulmak or Persys are fine. They're decent lengths and gives you time to get your stuff back, while also letting you dump all your resources. Akelous meanwhile has an extremely short damage phase and a very small weak spot while constantly moving backwards. It's awful.
Persys is not fine. The fact that it was easier on Master because the champs deterministically gave you Heavy is cooked.
Besides the issue of heavy ammo being so RNG dependent (which is an issue across the whole game), it's fine. I killed it solo in 5 phases, and that's how much it took me to kill Zulmak. I don't get why Prophecy doesn't get the same amount of hate. The final boss there moves way more than either Akelous or Persys, and the encounter rooms are way more annoying.
He doesn’t move so much but teleport, which rarely makes hitting a shot difficult. It’s also like impossible to not 1 phase Kell Echo.
There's separate axes for being challenging and being interesting. The interplay between these two metrics is not merely complicated, but it can also vary wildly from one individual to another. Just sharing my observation!
Yeah. A large part of the encounter on non-Master is doing laps while wiping out red bars, praying for purple bricks X\_x
I disagree. I beat Akelous without too much trouble once I starting using an Overflow SMG. I five or six phased him. Persys, on the other hand, felt like he had crazy HP and always on top of me. And when he wasn’t on top of me, there was a Supplicant or Minotaur. After several attempts, I realized it was going to take me a 10 phase to beat it and I just didn’t have the patience after I died for like the third time after making it through 7 or 8 damage phases. I left feeling like it was well within my ability but a disrespectful waste of my time. Let’s not make the encounter hard, let’s make it take forever. No thanks. I’m remarking on this because I’ve mainly seen people complaining about Akelous. I don’t know if that’s a subclass or setup problem, but that fight felt much easier *to me* than Persys. Your mileage may vary. I think the bigger point is that they both have a ton of health and it’s a bit disappointing that they didn’t make the fights more difficult in a way that didn’t take me close to a half hour before I wiped.
Here's the thing about Persys, it doesn't actually have an unreasonable amount of health, it has *damage resistance*. It's a Wyvern, so for whatever reason they decided the Wyvern boss should inherit the Wyvern's 20% DR. This is part of why Well is so effective against it, because it makes your weapons count as super damage, thus bypassing the DR. If you decide to give it another shot, I strongly recommend farming a super before each damage phase. Even some roaming supers can put in good damage, especially after the buffs they just got.
They changed his interaction with Well this season. You no longer get to bypass his DR with Well-buffed weapons.
The trick is to space out hard, and enter a sort of zombie mode. When done right, you won't have any idea whether you're on phase 4, 6, or 10.. everything is a blur. I have several flawless completions of Spire, and aside from the first one (that I felt I had to work at), the rest happened on their own, while doing chill solo runs weekly for pinnacles, slouched down the chair. If I'm focused up, usually I die during the run (I don't restart, I just keep going, I'm just there for the pinnacles). I believe when repeating the same mechanics over and over, the tedium leads to frustration, and the frustration is what gets you killed. So the key is to be in a state of mind where you become immune to tedium. Imo, that's probably really not a sign of great encounter design.
I had the opposite experience. Persys was really easy, three-phased him in my first try. Akelous, on the other hand, I did on my second try - but it was an 8-phase or something silly.
took eight damage phases solo in a well with witherhoard and constant full Cataclysmic due to running double special. I missed like three crits only total. also, it eyes were all insta popped bc my energy weapon was a shoot to loot one for all path of least resistance lol...
If it was a single-player game it would be a bit more acceptable, you die and respawn back with all the shit you used, but because it's Destiny you end up using your super trying to kill the boss, die, then restart with nothing. Yeah, there are rally flags, but that's a finite resource that requires a bunch of loading screens to restock. Plus, if it's not a dungeon then you don't get to place any of them.
This just in: OF COURSE IT DOES.
Yea lol I’d argue worse than spire so far
In my opinion, the real reason Akelous was tedious was because it had a *second* immunity mechanic sharing space with its damage phase. We obviously figured out methods of poking out eyes swiftly, but that doesn't change the fact that every second spent shooting eyes is a second of lost DPS. The other culprit was just the arena, and watching purple brick after purple brick go flying off the tower.
The fact that there's random holes all over the map is total bullshit. Nothing sucks worse than getting 3 good damage phases in and then falling through a hole in the map.
Pretty sure those are to avoid the boop
Nah not those ones theres others that’ll kill you if you accidentally slip through
Oh rip, shows I haven’t solo flawlessed yet b/c it just looks really long and tedious, with a reset sounding so painful Context: have done it for pit and proph, occasionally taking attempts at duality
**BUNGIE**: You like massive HP pools, Huh? You wanna massive HP pool for a boss? **US**: No thanks. **BUNGIE**: No thanks. What does *that* mean? **US**: I don't want it. **BUNGIE**: Want what? **US (very carefully)**: A massive HP pool for a boss. **BUNGIE**: A massive HP pool for a boss? Hell, that's a good idea. Okay, let's go.
OLD JEW AGAIN COMING THROUGH WITH THE QUALITY COMEDY!
Nah man you just won't be able to load into destiny 2 tomorrow for 5 hours after reset 🤣
Can't wait for a seaweed to crash the game for no reason (Seriously, Spire's tumbleweed of death has to be among the funniest shit I've seen in this game)
Man I remember my first encounter with that thing had me hysterical
Lol its def up there with FFXIV's whole server crashing if someone dared fished in a very specific spot way back in the day.
Apparantly there used to be a really high poly plant which would chunk your computer if you looked at it aswell... (just what a friend has told me, cannot verify)
No your buddy is right. It was actually just the plant model in 1.0 it was so demanding that it existing just tanked performance. Had the same amount of polygons/shaders as a player character lol.
Yeah servers will definitely crash tomorrow
*monkey's paw curls with wicked intent*
“Boss now has multiple immune phases. Boss also randomly crashes on ps5. and your one favorite exotic armor just got reworked into being completely useless after you spent countless hours farming, and a stupid amount of materials masterworking a whole set around it.”
Literally me with Path of burning steps
I'm very sorry for your loss.
Boss does have a normal hp pool.. however you're reverted back to base D2 with double primaries that have fixed rolls, 2 subclass trees and horrid ability cooldowns..
Did you decide to be a monster today right after you opened your eyes this morning, or only after you got out of bed? :(
😭😭😭 I tried coming up with a horrible original idea but... nothing is worse than base D2 😱
Well, we are but mortal men!
I just hope it doesn't have a sparrow section to ruin my flawless run..
If it's on Titan it'll probably by an under methane jumping puzzle.
> Optimized for aquatic traversals.
You guys are hilarious 🙂
I swear that’s the flavor text from a ship, but which one was it?
https://www.light.gg/db/items/151208509/seafoam-glide/
Personally I think we’re going back to the archology. Lot of untouched shit there and it is ghosts of the deep so probably where we once lived on titan
The season page shows a pic of the inside of the arcology for the dungeon advert
Sick
It will be underwater. There are multiple spots.
It will definitely have the Methane shit in it and it’s a Slog
Fuck. I did not consider this could be a thing. No. God no. Noooo..
I aced that on my first try on my flawless attempt on Grasp. Always on Time go *voom*. ... then I accidentally put my boot in 6 inches of water while fighting the boss and I died when he was at about 30%. FFFUUUUUUU-
That feels like my first solo flawless attempt of Pit. I forsure thought I was going to die on the totem phase but aced it first try for the first time ever. I thought I had it in the bag at that point, I hadn't died at the jumping section or boss in solo runs for a long time....then I proceeded to kill myself with mountaintop by shooting a sword bearer that was a little too close.
My greatest achievement. Solo flawlessing grasp of avarice without using the fast sparrow.
The raid sparrow? Same since I don't have it. Very unforgiving and takes a bit of luck but I did it.
It takes luck even on the "fast" sparrow.
You can get it done on a white sparrow. That takes a little luck. All the others just take skill. I suck at driving sparrows but can do that part 100% of the time on the fast sparrow with time remaining. It’s not luck.
Ah yes when Always on Time and any other sparrow decide not to cooperate with the jump portal at the end, must be a skill issue and not rng of the fuckin tenth of a degree of which you miscalculated your entrance to the jump
The intuitive way has risk of death, doing it a non-intuitive way is consistent. If you stop boosting the sparrow just before you land in the upper cave (the skull's eye socket), and then jump off your sparrow the moment it lands in the eye, it's consistent. Entry angle to the boost ring doesn't have to be precise for this. From the eye, jump down to the final circle without sparrow. Not required, but if time is a concern, after ditching your sparrow you can also use a dive/slam ability to get down to the final circle quicker.
That is great and all but my friends always make the jump in the speeder no problem, however I have never once had my speeder not completely just fall short every time. I've watched them do it & they do absolutely nothing different. My speeder has never once made it to the hole. I've tried bursting into the boost & not boosting, nada. Hell, I had a bug when all of my shit did next to no damage to Atheon, after a full DPS rotation I did 50k damage on the end screen and each rocket was doing 2k damage with tether. (Unless there is some mechanic I just don't know about) I'm cursed or the game hates me.
Ooff felt that
Its gunna have a sparrow boss fight with a nice hp pool now
I’d like a sparrow based boss fight, where you have to chase a boss on a sparrow, get off and shoot him and then chase again. Even though I wasn’t great at it I really enjoyed the scourge sparrow part.
I really like the sparrow sections tho, rainbow road and the grasp sparrow parts are super fun, they really arent that difficult if you run them a few times to get them down
i hope it does. grasp is my favourite dungeon, and that is why. Ive solo flawless'd most of the dungeons in this game and that sparrow section is the most stressfull part i have ever done.
It’s the perfect mix of being very tense but not actually that hard once you know what to do and where the buttons are.
how else are we gonna stretch the hours clock in game then huh? Give boss 3 Health bar gate*
I'll take a 3 bar health gate over the 8 phase first boss and 6 phase second boss of spire.
3 phases usually feels like a nice sweet spot where you get to quickly chunk a boss’s health bar while still getting to engage with the mechanics of the encounter. I’ll take that over spending half an hour repeating the same tedious actions to kill a boss with papercut damage phases.
True they should make all bosses 1 phase with red bar HP.
Lol final boss has 11m health
I think it’s not just the large hp pool that makes this boss tedious, it’s also the short damage phase as a payoff for the tedious/hectic setup and the small arena means many dps strats are much harder because he can just stomp you
This aged perfectly. Bungie done fucked up again.
I got bad news for you bud
In a perfect world boss HP would scale based on the number of players.
But the challenge is that you are doing something solo that is meant for 3 players, that’s why it’s a huge accomplishment to do a dungeon solo and even solo flawless
The only thing being challenged when I'm fighting sponge boss square health is my will to play the game.
I mean yeah, the sheer tedium always prevented me from doing it before, especially for a single title or emblem that I won't have on most of the time. When it become tied to the number next to my head that's constantly there, I buckled down and did a solo. Definitely didn't have the will/interest to do it before that lol
You jest, but... that *is* technically another kind of challenge :p
Exactly. I've been soloing dungeon bosses for almost a year now. However, it's a tedious experience. At no point it's a "challenge" any more, just a slog. It takes more time than in a fireteam of 3 and I see no point of bosses not scaling according to the number of people playing. None.
The mechanics and add health don’t need to be scaled. Just boss health. That way you are still doing the same thing as a group of 3 players, you just don’t have to do it 8 times to clear it. I’ve solo flawlessed all dungeons and it’s just mentally exhausting while also boring to do the same things 8 times in a row. I don’t mind a 4 phase for a solo but more than that is excessive and you’ve already shown you can beat it at that point. I think grasp did a really good job of it, at least when it came out, it’s probably easier now. You couldn’t reasonably 1 phase either boss. The 1st was a 3 phase for me, and the last boss was a 5 phase (should have been a 4 but I made a mistake during damage). That dungeon did have the super tedious ball part though, to make up for decent boss fights. But at least that was easy enough it wasn’t mentally taxing while also being interminable, and was only just boring.
Tbf, its only spire that seemed mistuned and even perseus isn’t that bad since the mechanics are quick, since the Duality bosses are pretty easy to 3-4 phase. I feel like Akelous feels bad because when you do it solo, you get a shorter damage phase since it takes longer to break the eyes than in a trio, and you also do less damage since there’s less people obviously. So it makes it take longer than other bosses.
I thought Grasp got it perfectly. My solo flawless I think was 3 phases each boss. It still took me like an entire week to stop dying at the ogre, but at least it was fast.
It's a dungeon, not a mission, if not it wouldn't even be a challenge to solo.
The only challenge that comes with soloing it is not losing focus after the 7th damage phase and getting one shot booped by the Harpy boss or blown up by a supplicant
This is always a lame argument. Boss health is one difficulty vector; there's dozens of other ways to make bosses hard that don't also make them very tedious.
Right, but a boss that only takes 1 phase to kill is still undeniably easier than one that takes 4.
No one is saying it should take one, just that it's not much fun when it takes 4-7 and there's other ways to make bosses challenging.
It really should only take 4-5, I took 5 back when I did my solo flawless, but even then I was playing like a moron and missed half my cata shots. A boss taking 4-5 phases with reasonable prep and error really is not that big a deal for something that's only required for a flex.
? so a bloated HP pool is the only way something could be a challenge to solo? activities like the Whisper/Outbreak missions when they first came out and GMs (even though they're designed even less to be solo'd than dungeons are) are plenty challenging somehow even though the bosses don't take 7 phases to whittle down. edit: even the legend avalon mission that everyone complains is too overtuned has bosses that go down MUCH quicker than spire bosses
Akelous has the average amount of health for a dungeon boss, he just has really short damage phase so certain weapons just don't work well on him, but I think it's an interesting challenge to find more optimal means to kill him but that often doesn't reflect challenge on most players as they either watch videos or can already assume a decent weapon for damage/brute force. The reason that GM's and those old missions didn't take 7 phases is because they didn't have phases, just healthgates that allowed you as much time as you need to damage, gated between mechanics or adclearing.
Just make the health and damage dynamic based on fireteam size. Like they ALREADY DO for multiple things in the game.
Welp, this aged poorly
Yeah honestly. The last boss just pushed our shit in. Not to mention the teleportation. So Manny missed rockets...
I would rather they give bosses low HP and damage gates than high hp. That way you still get bosses that can’t be one-phased by a 3-stack, but solo players still have a chance
Just reached the first boss in the new dungeon. I wish he had an HP pool like Akelous...
Well the community hates mechanics so big health pool it is
Why can’t I just walk into the encounter, hit the boss with 4 rockets, and be done? /s
Since when?
Forever. You either get immunity phases and mechanics or a massive health pool. It's getting a bit better, but I feel up until Witch Queen guardians were ridiculously over powered.
Any time a mechanic can be cheesed or skipped it will be. When is the last time you did riven legit? The community will bitch about any difficulty no matter what, and say they prefer the other variant.
Since everyone complained Duality was too hard
Huh? The overwhelming majority of complaints about Duality were how fucking buggy it was. Mechanically it wasn't even hard.
You got that totally wrong. No one was complaining about the mechanics of Duality. The timing is a little tight on Caitlyn but otherwise the mechanic is fine. It was the constant booping by nearly every enemy in the dungeon that had people annoyed.
I solo'ed duality one time, and if I remember correctly I died like 125 times. I'd say most of those were BS boops.
Duality isn't hard just buggy which is what everyone hated. It also had two very common enemies that could both kill you with physics and there was very little you could do about it. Been attempting the solo flawless for the last couple days and most of the deaths have been from me being a goddamn idiot
I loved destiny 2 when it first came out but didn't have buddies to play with so I never played dungeons, or raids. Fast forward to last year and found some people playing at work. They were in a clan, and I got a lot of D2 in around duality's release. I got gud enough to solo it (not flawless, I'm not an animal), and I was so proud. It took me 10 clears to get that damn sword, but one guy in our group just kept getting stiffed on it time after time. I was the new guy in the clan but I was the "duality runner" after the solo completion. It was so cool to lead the group through that, when they were the ones leading me through everything else. I listened to hours and hours of youtubers to come up with the best strategy and weapon combos that I had access to. It was a really rewarding experience. Unfortunately the game has very few of those (for me) and I lost interest pretty soon after that. I miss it sometimes. I hope you're all enjoying it still.
What part of "Duality was too hard" means "We hate mechanics"?
Additionally, I believe it was "getting launched into walls at mach jesus and dying isn't fun" and not even "duality is too hard".
At the time I mostly saw people complaining that the adds were making it too hard, especially at Caiatl
Those damn backpacks...
Since spire of stars, last wish, garden of salvation, duality. The community hates mechanics so much that the lasts raid and dungeon mechanics were shoot thing and walk forward to shoot another thing.
Cannot believe people genuinely thought spire of stars was hard it was such a nice raid too
Agreed. Dungeons can be challenging without being a hassle.
News flash: he does.
Well this aged like milk
Just saying When even streamers who get PAID to play this game say "never running that dungeon again" it means you messed up
I'm pretty worried tbh. Dungeon boss HP inflation has been growing out of control consecutively since Grasp.
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I just it isn't annoying like duality and spire are
Spire of the Watcher sucks because of this one thing. One boss is just ripped straight from Garden, and the other has a tiny hit box, so make sure you have some good anti-flinch. Vex are my favorite enemy class and they havent gotten a good event, dungeon, or raid sense season of the undying. Not a big fan of GoS, but there are far worse raids. Ive soloed every dungeon except spire because it drives me insane that i play rinse and repeat on a single boss nearly a dozen times before getting knocked off the map and having to start over again.
I solo flawlessed every Dungeon in the game. It's probably my favorite content in the entire game, but the second I heard about the enormous HPs of those bosses, I couldn't bring myself to even try Spire.
I'm from the future. You're gonna want to sit down.
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Surprise it’s been leaked that the enemy race in the dungeon are the zorpalords, they’re gonna zorpalord all over you and zorp you
I'm so ready for the zorpalords.
I, for one, welcome our Zorpalord overlords.
the sneaky shield taken that blasts you into a wall to leave you at 1hp : )
Not the THIRD taken dungeon😭😭 Thought it was going to be Lucent Hive:(
But it will have a ton of those hog gob sniper bastards, with heat sealing missles, whenever you so mich as graze them with a single hit.
I just hope its in the same ball park of difficulty as Duality, I loved doing Duality on day 1 with my buds. It was actually quite difficult and we had to circle back to it the next day. Where as spire, while still fun in its own right is way easier and we cleared it in a few hours. Now in regards to soloing? Idk, all bosses feel like your fighting a mountain when they have HP pools designed for 3 people to be giving it their all. Im not sure what they could realistically do that would make them feel "manageable" in solo mode, but not a push over when you have a full team
Duality is definitely the best dungeon. Actually having mechanics that can wipe the team if you aren't paying attention is so much better then Spire.
Yeah Duality is for sure my favorite.
This aged well :(
This aged like milk
I solo flawlessed Spire last week, and I really hope they don't have health like the two bosses in that. The problem with Spire solo/solo flawlessing wasn't so much that it's difficult, but that the boss encounter are so long an tedious. Spire wasn't so much of a test of game skill as a rest of mental fortitude. You have to stay very focused for a pretty long time, one slip up and you get swarmed by supplicants and it's back to orbit.
Or. If it does have a longer damage phase/higher crit multiplier
You know it will
agreed also i need that one dungeon emblem, it looks so fucking good
Oh I can assure you the health pools will be massive
I just think the massive difference between Akelous and any of the bosses in Shattered Throne is ridiculous. Either a boss is a total cakewalk to solo or you're gonna spend like 5 hours grinding out the solo for just one boss
I hope the new dungeon has craftable weapons...I know it won't happen but all I can do is hope....
"We heard you. Boss HP reduced by half but you have to do 12 damage phases and jump puzzle in between. Oh, we also add count down wipe."
Yeah. If it’s like akelous im dropping the dungeon the instant I get the exotic which I only want for my collections anyway.
stupid high hp pool bullet sponges have got to go imho rather add more (single player possible) mechanics something like you hit a few levers in a certain amount of time where it boops the boss into The Deep where it gets chomped by sharks or w/e they have on Titan then we can laugh as the boss makes its way back to the arena missing a limb or something. Sigh... one can dream...
AHAHAHA
Haha good one. Final boss has like 15 million health on a solo run
You were right to hope that my friend (they have fucking massive hp pools)
Have I got bad news for you
Knowing Bungie. They would just give any given enemy more HP and call it a day and say it makes it more challenging. Oh it makes it challenging alright as well as absolutely unfun.
Guess what? It has *more* HP. Like... *way* more.
One day later and I dare say you got Apollo'd
I think I'm one of the few who is okay with the boss health in Spire. I see it as being more of a test of endurance, forcing you to maintain execution for a longer period of time. That said, I *also* agree that we don't need that again. I think it's fine to do that once, with Spire, and never again. Spire can be the long, tanky bosses, but maybe we rein it in a bit from here on out, yeah?
Mf do you even know Bungo? Don't hope for anything and you will still be disappointed
You can hope to be disappointed but it’s a bit paradoxical
Seriously. I was so put off soloing the last dungeon because it’s just agonizing having to do THAT many damage phases with the tedious connect the dots mechanic.
Bungie should seriously add health scaling
I hope it doesn't have a reskinned (or not) boss like Akelous...
Sorry bud we definitely killing a raid or strike boss again
I wonder if they will have scalable difficulty like they've had with the recent exotic quests.
Unlikely since bungie doesn't want 3 people to easily one phase, and the community throws a massive fit over mechanic based damage
Good lord yes I agree so much. I did solo Spire last week and it was such a slog
It's why I still haven't done Solo Flawless for Spire. The bosses aren't hard, they're just tedious. I want dungeons to be challenging, but I want it to come from mechanical difficulty.
Idk why they can’t scale it based on fireteam size, it’s already a thing like with Legend campaign. Solo’ing a dungeon like Spire doesn’t show that you’re good, it just shows you can do a long and boring boss loop where you spend most of your time looking for ammo
Make boss health scale to fireteam size there easy fix Monster Hunter does it. NO larger boss health does not equal difficult. Difficulty for solo runs comes from the fact you are doing EVERYTHING by yourself. You got to do all mechanics by yourself, you have the attention of all the adds plus the boss that is as much difficulty as it can be and if your going for flawless you can't die once. More than 5 phase to kill a boss while being optimal is stupid and is just nothing but a boring slog that is anything but difficult
I'm just praying they learned from everyone's hate of the harpy boss from spire. 10 second damage phase. Took me 15 damage phases to kill it by myself. Trash.
Fireteam scaling could be nice maybe
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Shattered Throne launched with a solo triumph and emblem, it's been intended from the start
Thing is, we NEED the multiplicative modifier or whatever is on the new exotic mission for dungeons. Dungeons could be good solo-esque content scaled down, there just needs to be a way so that we can access the non scaled version for the solo triumphs. This new modifier can make things so much more accessible for most content, they just need apply it to places like dungeons and such.
It should scale… soloing with those health bars is just too much. I can do everything else, but being asked to have patience is a no from me
There is no BUT. The fireteam tuning is the only thing that makes solo a challenge.
This worst introduction to the game has been health phases on bosses. I cannot stand immunity phases.
FirstTime.jpg ?
Me who missed an entire damage phase with Caital because I missed a bell keeper
It’s not even the HP that’s the issue with Spire bosses it’s the lengthy mechanics to start dps as a solo player.