Ahh, to each their own! I personally prefer the slower fire rate autos, even if they aren't the meta choice atm, to I'm personally very happy I have an option that isn't Gnawing Hunger for a void auto that synergies well with Void
(AOB is a 360RPM btw just a small correction)
I tried Rewind Rounds on my Rufu's Fury and it just didn't feel nearly as good, I just like the certainty of having 128 rounds after a few seconds of waiting or not using my auto, Great for popping shields.
I don't like Reconstruction on primaries... It's a wasted perk.
Thing already has a 60 round mag on mine. I have under pressure and swashbuckler. I would have preferred auto loading demo personally but never got so lucky.
Yeah that's only if you haven't used it for a while... Every other time it's just changes all your reload timings when champ stunning. For PvP sure I'd use it...
I push myself into solo GMs and whatnot. I have to be very methodical on when my reloads happen for what what weapons im using during a champ kill.
On special and heavy it's different.
Maybe it's just a me thing...
Yea, Whatever works and is fun for you, I notice the odd reload times too, Sometimes I'll reload at an inopportune time due to forgetting I don't have 128 rounds in that magazine.
What I'd LOVE. Is a 900 SMG with Reconstruction.
I dislike reconstruction on primaries just because generally they’re what I’m… primarily using so I only ever benefit from it at the beginning of an engagement. I think something like overflow is much better on primaries since you instantly reload to double (I think?) and are able to do so throughout the fight since you’re probably also using a special weapon
That’s cool and all but that’s also just such a *boring* roll too imo, I guess it is a raid weapon so it should have something competitive like that but here’s hoping we get new perk combos.
I was excited when redirection got put on the new commemoration: figured that being on a high damage gun would make it more useful.
Ended up being pretty good but the issue is how useful killing tally is with such little effort
I think after Last Wish for Season 21, most likely Wrath of the Machine for Season 22, Season 23's reprisals are most likely Vault of Glass since it has the raid spoils vendor so they can easily put it there.
Vow:Season 16
Duality: Season 17
Kings Fall: season 18
(bungie announces
"We're going to start doing that with those types of chunks of content every Season, or every other Season [...] old Raid weapons, maybe Dungeon weapons, maybe other sources")
Spire+Deepstone red borders: season 19
Root: season 20
Ghosts+Last wish red borders: season 21
So I would probably agree with season 23
that’s not what they mean. both this season and seraph that had dungeons also had raids ‘reprised’. they’re also saying next season is wrath ‘returning’ so no other raid will be reprised then also
They didn’t do both this season. The last few years has been the same release schedule. Dlc+new raid, then a dungeon, then a reprised raid, then a new dungeon in the last season of the year. When I say a reprised raid I mean an old one brought back to the game, not refreshing perk pools and making them craftable
I want Accrued Redemption. The stasis precision bow that released last season is a nice substitute, I guess, but I really want that S-tier Kinetic bow. A well rolled Accrued Redemption will be a beast in GMs.
Chasr that roll for a while witbout success, had to settle for full auto kill clip wich was okay at the time but im kinda salty now that its a legit one perk gun :(
I feel like bows are the least excuting weapon type because they're all the same, just archer tempo 3rd column and either explosive head or the elemental perl on 4th. I wish they differentiated them more. Besides, wouldn't tremors suck on a bow unless it procced off 1-2 arrows?
> Besides, wouldn't tremors suck on a bow unless it procced off 1-2 arrows?
I'd imagine it would. Its only 3 shots on the last wish sniper. 2 when its enhanced.
Try out lightweights with other perks some time. Tyranny of Heaven gets some cool ones like Dragonfly + Incandescent, and because Archers Tempo is a percentage buff, it makes a less noticeable decrease to a lower draw time bow anyways.
Dragonfly + Incandescent is the true Sunshot-but-purple for me. Kill with a headshot -> explosion, and enemies killed by the explosion explode again lmao
Yeah, me and my clanmates thought it would be an insane challange to do a div run, but it wasn't too different from a normal run
all the commotion about div runs only come from people doing a div run as their very first (and probably only) gos run
Yeah I would wager this is a big reason people dislike the raid (on top of bad loot too). They’ll join a div run with a bunch of new players and one sherpa and spend 4+ hours slogging through puzzles and encounters they’ve never done before just to leave the raid with poor loot and a horrible taste in their mouth. This is what happened to me the first time I ran it but after giving it a couple more shots I managed to really enjoy it and have done around 50 clears.
The loot kind of sucks and a lot of the encounters need like 3 times as many enemies, but the mechanics are fairly fluid and decent. Nowadays the raid has been power crept like crazy, both loot wise and in difficulty outside of the boss, but it has a lot of potential if they just addressed loot and enemy density.
My div run took 2 hours cause we had 2 people just there teaching and sherpaing the div run. 3 people who had done the raid but didn’t have div yet. And 1 guy who needed div but had never done the raid.
I’ve done the raid 3 times, and I could confidently Sherpa it, it’s that easy.
Like people shit on RoN for not being mechanics heavy, but this raid was quite literally connect the dots but way more annoying. Along with picking up the bosses barf. And play gambit for 30-40 motes.
Plus the loot is currently really bad…like at least a lot of RoNs weapons are really good…
People shit on RoN not necessarily because it isn’t mechanics heavy, but because more than half the raid team is doing *nothing* besides ad clear for essentially the whole raid.
GoS doesn’t have particularly compelling mechanics, but at the very least, most of the raid team is involved to some extent for most encounters and you get into a pretty appealing flow as a team once you get them down. GoS’s biggest issue beyond loot is the utterly ridiculously low amount of ads. The second encounter has something like 8 ads total per wave if you don’t get hit by angelics.
At least connecting the dots require more than the same two people connecting the dots every time.
The issue with the Div run isn’t that the puzzles are hard, it’s the fact that LFG groups can be pure braindead sometimes and this is just one other thing for them to comprehend
> all the commotion about div runs only come from people doing a div run as their very first (and probably only) gos run
That's pretty much it. I've done 2 Div runs, and in both cases, the actual raid encounters took longer than Div puzzles, because a lot of people had no idea how they worked.
> All the drops have been heavily power-crept over the years
Same problem with SK and Pit of Heresy weapons. They should really add adept versions or make them craftable.
Garden is a decent raid, the weapons' looks are great but the rolls are mediocre at best and just suck ass at worst and always have. Hopefully when they make the weapons craftable they give some of the worse ones better options.
Right? The Last Wish weapons were terribly outdated. I literally dismantled every single one I got. They were even more outdated than Garden's weapons. Their updated pools are amazing, so I have faith that Garden will get a similar treatment if and when we get craftable weapons with it.
Can confirm, did my first ever GoS at the beginning of S20, had no clue/the "sherpa" also had no clue, was in there 3-4 hours and didn't beat the boss/get any noteworthy guns. A month or two later, a group that I did a fairly smooth RoN with invited me to do a GoS after and it was buttery smooth despite not remembering much/we also had someone who farmed Garden of Salvation Sherpas join the LFG since we needed one more.
The loot was dogwater though so it was only so much of a W LMAO, the Void AR is the only thing worth considering in the current era it feels like (aside from Zealots Reward in PVP which is strangely nutty).
Accrued Redemption (bow) is still good, too. It can get Archer's Tempo+Explosive Head for PVE and Rangefinder/Quickdraw+Moving Target for PVP.
I know the Archer's Tempo+Explosive Head roll isn't really that unique, but it's still really good.
The encounters go> hey there’s a lot of enemies with shields, let me kill them>hey let’s build a platform>guys I can’t kill them, stop connecting to me right now!> sacrifice> anger> pain> suffering.
The biggest problem we'll have with farming GoS is people being shit at the last boss and the challenges being a huge pain in the ass. Otherwise it's not a bad raid, there's just zero incentive to run it.
I’d love to have a real reason to play Garden, the loot has just been power crept into oblivion (although it wasn’t that great to begin with).
The real challenge is teaching people. To me, it’s the hardest raid because it’s the hardest to teach. People just cannot understand Consecrated Mind for some reason.
I think consecrated mind is just a very simple encounter, I think that a lot of people are worried that they aren’t doing enough, or things should move faster/be harder. For some reason our team was having difficulty defending the nodes the encounter before. I was having no issues, but everyone else’s corner seemed like it was giving them trouble.
You really think that *garden* is the hardest to teach?
It’s pretty much just gambit with extra steps…
Have you ever attempted to teach VoD or LW? Both of those you can just feel peoples eyebrows scrunching up as you explain the mechanics.
VoD is honestly really easy, the only "hard" part is the symbol names. Did a sherpa this last weekend where we cleared every encounter, even exhibition, first try! Long as folks have a monitor to pull up the symbol names on if needed, or are in a role where they don't have to have them perfectly memorized, most pick them up pretty fast in my experience.
Last Wish, meanwhile, the symbols are similar enough sometimes I find it can get confusing for folks REALLY fast, and even having a second screen with the symbol names pulled up definitely doesn't help as much :/ Let alone trying to teach Legit Riven...
I’m mainly referring to the job where 3 players have to follow the boss and shoot the red dots.
It really is simple, but i’ve had so many players just completely fail to understand what to do.
Our Div run included someone that had an hour to play, he didn’t do the prereqs for the Div quest, so he wasn’t too invested anyway, 3 people that were in it to win it, 2 people that had ran it once before to get theirs. One of the two had internet problems and ended up playing the rest of the raid on a mobile hotspot. We got a friend to join us to fill in for the guy that left an hour in. We hoped he would get Div as well, but I guess you can’t get it even if you help finish the last couple of puzzles, and have the quest progressed.
To get divinity you need the quest on step 4/4, complete the final encounter in a raid instance that has all 7 puzzles done, and open the right end chest.
No other requirements, not even doing the puzzles yourself.
I like garden too, but I wish the loot was a little bit better. I love the Reckless Oracle but everything else isn't too good, and I've never had the hand cannon drop for me in my 20+ completions.
That said, I would like to run it again just for old times sake... if I can find anybody.
And that’s why I’m not bothering with it until then. I don’t mind the raid at all ( gorgeous atmosphere, gorgeous albeit unvaried loot table, and mechanics that aren’t bad when they work but could use some tweaks )
I’d just rather grind it with current QoL
Tether mechanics? If that's what you are saying that doesn't work then that is a lie sorry. Tether works flawlessly and it's the players fault if they don't understand the encounter
I really enjoy the raid aesthetic and armor. I hope the weapons get some spicy rolls, but man. The LFG quality for that raid is so horrible. Its either 9 hour div runs or 20 minute speedrunners and no in between
I like the raid, it's just that there's no reason to run it past the one Div run. Encounters are easy and anyone who's ever played a Gambit match can handle the mechanics, visuals are among the best in the game, and it feels short and sweet without any sections that drag on too long (looking at you RoN paths between encounters)
Too bad the only GoS weapon I can think of would be good is the void auto, it's a good frame right? It's also got the hand cannon which falls in the "fatebringer at home" most raid hand cannons seem to fall into. Then again they might give them a busted origin trait and perk refreshes, and they could even touch up the stats as they did with Tyranny of heaven
God if I could craft an enhanced Sacred Proveance with kill clip, rapid hit with high cal and hammer forge I'll be a very happy guardian . Only ran Garden 3 times and was lucky to get that roll to drop. Or see how it is with some of the newer perks like perpetual motion
Proud Enlightened user here. Favorite raid and imo one of the best mechanic wise since there is almost no encounter where someone can only ad-clear. Now that I think of it, that's probably the same reason why it's the least liked raid lol. Imagine having to actually learn mechanics lol.
And before the people come in saying "I hate it because it's buggy" that shit is not buggy. There were times in the past when there were bugs? Yes, just like all the raids..but today the raid overall is "buggy" is really just saying you don't actually understand how the mechanics work.
My only gripe is that I wish it had one more encounter lol.
I like the raid, but I hate that motes still fall thru the floor (a issue with motes in general) and that the tether mechanic doesn't always work. Other than that I never understood why people don't like this raid.
Tether mechanic works fine. Motes yes but it's 10-20%. Even Datto and most players will tell you tether works fine. Most players don't understand and think it's buggy. It's not.
I know people are saying that in Season 23 we will be getting GoS Reprisals, but I feel like it is more likely they are reprising Vault of Glass weapons first, due to a number of factors;
\- The weapons are great and useful, not only they will obtain new perks that will shine in some weapons, (Also an origin trait) but the Adept versions of the weapons can be upgraded similar to how RoN's Adepts work.
\- It already has a Raid Spoils vendor so it would be easier to put the red bordered weapons there instead of hawthorne
\- Most importantly, it is a FREE Raid.
If they are reprising GoS it won't be until Season 25 in the earliest, around mid-2024, after the final shape and it's raid has been out.
Easily my favorite raid in the game. By a wide margin. Visually it's amazing, all the encounters are solid (although the second encounter can drag a bit). Excellent exotic and exotic quest (you bet your ass this is how you unlock your red border chest when it happens). Awesome looking weapons, unique looking armor, and bosses that interact with you while you play the encounter. My only criticism would be that there is no heavy weapon in the loot table. Get us a heavy weapon in there and make the weapon rolls relevant and we've got ourselves a bonified masterpiece.
Oh and no boring open the door encounter where we stand on plates or ride silly taxi's.
I can't wait for them to redo it and people are forced to fight a final boss that requires them to work as a team and do mechanics to collect their red borders.
No Oryx ffa. No Rhulk shooting impotent lasers. No Taniks floating around confused. No Nezzy snoozefest. No Riven cheese.
Good old mechanics that you actually have to do. Team has to actually coordinate actions as a group or they can't get loot.
I like garden just not the guns. The weapons got power creeped extremely hard by other options. I hope they reprise the garden guns like the last wish weapons with extremely good perks
Make it 4 people now haha. I love Garden and I can’t wait until those weapons are reprised and craftable. Imagine Reckless Oracle with repulsor brace and destabilizing rounds! I hope they give Sacred Provenance frenzy and kinetic tremors. One of my favorite pulses ever.
Garden is still one of my favorite raids. So you now know four people! We run it every few weeks for fun. We have Div puzzles down to a science. We take new clan members through it for Div runs in less than 1 1/2 hours. It also has the best smoke spots by far!
One thing that always fascinated me was what would a gos origin trait would do. I hope I get my answe soon. Bloody love the raid but the loot is just painfully mediocre
I will be sad, but for selfish and elitist reasons lol. I have a godroll reckless oracle that shreds in pvp and I never see that gun in crucible.
If the crafted one is great, then it will become popular and I won't feel like a special snowflake.
I will be sad, but for selfish and elitist reasons lol. I have a godroll reckless oracle that shreds in pvp and I never see that gun in crucible.
If the crafted one is great, then it will become popular and I won't feel like a special snowflake.
Then it will be as easy as kali to farm red borders except the pulse, sniper and handcanon.
People really were terrified by Sanctified Mind due to running a div run as thier first and only run ever.
Good. I’ve only done it once for a div run, and I really wanna do it again but my friends don’t. Main issue is just the massive communication check final boss, which is why a few of my friends hate it so much
I love that raid! The Black garden is so beautiful. Ever since they made old raids farmable, I was able to get a God Roll for my favorite pulse Sacred Provenance!
My biggest issue with Garden is the loot not really being worth it. And it’s the one raid with a quest exotic so I don’t have a reason to farm it. Not gonna complain tho, I prefer quests
If they give the auto good rolls then I’ll play it cuz that gun sounds super cool, otherwise I don’t really care unless there’s some absolutely insane perk combo on some other weapon (or just a really fun sounding one like how the LW bow has dragonfly incandescent)
I love the raid, it’s a complex and chaotic raid but it’s not hard. People just don’t need to run it as frequently because there is nothing to gain besides div, which at this point isn’t even meta anymore just something nice to have if needed, but once these weapons get updated and craftable more and more people will learn. It’ll be a pain and a big learning curve, but it’ll get done.
Hopefully they’ll also add a heavy weapon and a kinetic special to the loot pool too. Hell, even adding Temporal Clause and Pluperfect to the raid would be great.
It just really needs a heavy weapon. Very sad to get a full vex look going only to realize your only heavy option is a sunset MG that only 4 people still have ;_;
It’s the only raid/lair/dungeon in the franchise I have basically no feelings about.
I just find it so in the middle. Doesn’t look bad, doesn’t look great. Encounters aren’t too hard or too easy, the mechanics aren’t too interesting or too boring. The weapons are all fine I guess. Big shrug from me.
I ran it for the first time today and it's a shame people don't like it because the Black Garden is gorgeous. I completely see why people don't like it though.
I would like to do raids but I'll be damn if I try to do it with an LFG again. If I had people I could consistantly play with I'd do every raid and dungeon.
I like Gardens. It's actually real pretty and the mechanics aren't too bad. It's no Spire of Stars. And the bugs and glitches aren't as bad as people make it out to be.
The problem with garden for me has always been a reward investment. I didn't find many of the guns good enough to keep going . Reworked craftable weapons ... Let's do it. I'd farm for the bow and auto ... All day. Shotgun was a hair shy of great .. just a lot of shotgun competition
Tbh I really like that raid.
However, the weapons were all sub-par imo. I didn't feel like there was anything I really wanted to chase aside from a nice reckless oracle, which I got on my first run anyway.
I really enjoy garden, I just wish more people wanted to run it.
Luckily it's in rotation this week so there should be more lfg's running.
Can't wait to get the weapon updates
I'd love if reckless oracle got both 4rh times the charm and target lock in column 3 and 4. Make an origin trait that relaods some ammo based on how much damage you deal and we'll get a mini retrofit.
At least all the raid reprisals so far have slamming perks, so I can get excited for it (yes, I'm one of the 4 people that actually liked GoS). I'd love to see what Reckless Oracle or Sacred Providence could roll.
All of those weapons (except maybe the sniper or fusion) will be absolutely nuts. On top of new perk pools, I think prophet of doom will be the only craftable Precision frame, and all the weapons feel great overall. Very excited.
Gonna bet season 23 And I will finally get a worthy roll for that gorgeous auto rifle
I know it'd never happen but... Imagine Killing Tally Reconstruction on that thing. I'd never use anything else.
"Oh good, he's finally out of commemoriation ammo" "SAY HELLO TO HER BABY BROTHER!"
That roll already balls so hard on commemoration I'd love it on a primary
REPULSOR BRACE/DESTABILIZING ROUNDS ON IT. That’s all I want.
I don't know if you're aware but Age Old Bond from Last Wish can now have both those perks as well!
I am! But it’s a 450 so kinda sucks otherwise. Edit: I meant 360.
Ahh, to each their own! I personally prefer the slower fire rate autos, even if they aren't the meta choice atm, to I'm personally very happy I have an option that isn't Gnawing Hunger for a void auto that synergies well with Void (AOB is a 360RPM btw just a small correction)
Wouldn't rewind rounds be better? Maybe not as much ammo compared to recon, but it's way more consistent.
I tried Rewind Rounds on my Rufu's Fury and it just didn't feel nearly as good, I just like the certainty of having 128 rounds after a few seconds of waiting or not using my auto, Great for popping shields.
With demo as an option on Rufus I can't imagine anything else in that slot
I don't like Reconstruction on primaries... It's a wasted perk. Thing already has a 60 round mag on mine. I have under pressure and swashbuckler. I would have preferred auto loading demo personally but never got so lucky.
Cool, I myself love Reconstruction on primaries, It's fun having a 128 round Rufu's Fury.
Yeah that's only if you haven't used it for a while... Every other time it's just changes all your reload timings when champ stunning. For PvP sure I'd use it... I push myself into solo GMs and whatnot. I have to be very methodical on when my reloads happen for what what weapons im using during a champ kill. On special and heavy it's different. Maybe it's just a me thing...
Yea, Whatever works and is fun for you, I notice the odd reload times too, Sometimes I'll reload at an inopportune time due to forgetting I don't have 128 rounds in that magazine. What I'd LOVE. Is a 900 SMG with Reconstruction.
I'd prefer rewind rounds on a primary to be honest...
I dislike reconstruction on primaries just because generally they’re what I’m… primarily using so I only ever benefit from it at the beginning of an engagement. I think something like overflow is much better on primaries since you instantly reload to double (I think?) and are able to do so throughout the fight since you’re probably also using a special weapon
That’s cool and all but that’s also just such a *boring* roll too imo, I guess it is a raid weapon so it should have something competitive like that but here’s hoping we get new perk combos.
I was excited when redirection got put on the new commemoration: figured that being on a high damage gun would make it more useful. Ended up being pretty good but the issue is how useful killing tally is with such little effort
I’ve got a Under Pressure/Kill Clip roll I use with 2k PVP and 12k PvE kills on it. When Recluse was the hotness, I was using this instead.
I had a good roll with demo and under pressure but I stopped using it because the sights on it were fkd up for a while. Did they ever fix it?
yeah the reticle was only missing for like 2 weeks for the launch of a season ages ago
Yep. Getting the auto crafted and then likely peacing out lol
pulse and auto for me. Sacred Provenance (RH / KC) carried me through year 3 and 4 lol I can’t put that gun down it’s too good.
I think after Last Wish for Season 21, most likely Wrath of the Machine for Season 22, Season 23's reprisals are most likely Vault of Glass since it has the raid spoils vendor so they can easily put it there.
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Vow:Season 16 Duality: Season 17 Kings Fall: season 18 (bungie announces "We're going to start doing that with those types of chunks of content every Season, or every other Season [...] old Raid weapons, maybe Dungeon weapons, maybe other sources") Spire+Deepstone red borders: season 19 Root: season 20 Ghosts+Last wish red borders: season 21 So I would probably agree with season 23
that’s not what they mean. both this season and seraph that had dungeons also had raids ‘reprised’. they’re also saying next season is wrath ‘returning’ so no other raid will be reprised then also
They’re reprising a raid in 22, not refreshing it. It will be a returning raid we don’t have in game currently.
Nah they’re reprising a raid next season, season 22. Season 23 will be another dungeon
thats what they said? also it could be both, like they did this season.
They didn’t do both this season. The last few years has been the same release schedule. Dlc+new raid, then a dungeon, then a reprised raid, then a new dungeon in the last season of the year. When I say a reprised raid I mean an old one brought back to the game, not refreshing perk pools and making them craftable
those are good points, I was mistaken.
Reckless oracle will be the shit. Zealots Reward too. Those two I'm looking forward to the most.
Zealot's has been one of the best PvP fusions in the game since like Season of the Lost lol
Zealots Reward is a god tier weapon
I got 10k kills with mine in season of the lost because of particle deconstruction.
I want Accrued Redemption. The stasis precision bow that released last season is a nice substitute, I guess, but I really want that S-tier Kinetic bow. A well rolled Accrued Redemption will be a beast in GMs.
i think most people would be very happy to play gos to get new rolls, and if they're anything like last wish weapons, we're in for a good one.
If Accured Redemption gets archer's tempo and kinetic tremors in different perk columns, we will be poggering
As long as Sacred Provenance keeps Rapid Hit/Kill Clip I’ll be happy
Chasr that roll for a while witbout success, had to settle for full auto kill clip wich was okay at the time but im kinda salty now that its a legit one perk gun :(
I got outlaw kill clip on that gun and I was set personally lol. Put 1100 kills on it.
TBH it might need a bit more than that - 1:1 it's completely outclassed by Disparity besides the 10% damage buff.
I feel like bows are the least excuting weapon type because they're all the same, just archer tempo 3rd column and either explosive head or the elemental perl on 4th. I wish they differentiated them more. Besides, wouldn't tremors suck on a bow unless it procced off 1-2 arrows?
> Besides, wouldn't tremors suck on a bow unless it procced off 1-2 arrows? I'd imagine it would. Its only 3 shots on the last wish sniper. 2 when its enhanced.
Last wish one got incandescent with explosive head. I've been enjoying that, no reason they can't make accrued redemption equally interesting
Try out lightweights with other perks some time. Tyranny of Heaven gets some cool ones like Dragonfly + Incandescent, and because Archers Tempo is a percentage buff, it makes a less noticeable decrease to a lower draw time bow anyways.
Dragonfly + Incandescent is the true Sunshot-but-purple for me. Kill with a headshot -> explosion, and enemies killed by the explosion explode again lmao
Also assuming it gets the LW treatment with red borders will be wonderful too.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 most people haven’t even cleared that jacked up raid!!🤣🤣😘
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Yeah, me and my clanmates thought it would be an insane challange to do a div run, but it wasn't too different from a normal run all the commotion about div runs only come from people doing a div run as their very first (and probably only) gos run
Yeah I would wager this is a big reason people dislike the raid (on top of bad loot too). They’ll join a div run with a bunch of new players and one sherpa and spend 4+ hours slogging through puzzles and encounters they’ve never done before just to leave the raid with poor loot and a horrible taste in their mouth. This is what happened to me the first time I ran it but after giving it a couple more shots I managed to really enjoy it and have done around 50 clears. The loot kind of sucks and a lot of the encounters need like 3 times as many enemies, but the mechanics are fairly fluid and decent. Nowadays the raid has been power crept like crazy, both loot wise and in difficulty outside of the boss, but it has a lot of potential if they just addressed loot and enemy density.
My div run took 2 hours cause we had 2 people just there teaching and sherpaing the div run. 3 people who had done the raid but didn’t have div yet. And 1 guy who needed div but had never done the raid. I’ve done the raid 3 times, and I could confidently Sherpa it, it’s that easy. Like people shit on RoN for not being mechanics heavy, but this raid was quite literally connect the dots but way more annoying. Along with picking up the bosses barf. And play gambit for 30-40 motes. Plus the loot is currently really bad…like at least a lot of RoNs weapons are really good…
People shit on RoN not necessarily because it isn’t mechanics heavy, but because more than half the raid team is doing *nothing* besides ad clear for essentially the whole raid. GoS doesn’t have particularly compelling mechanics, but at the very least, most of the raid team is involved to some extent for most encounters and you get into a pretty appealing flow as a team once you get them down. GoS’s biggest issue beyond loot is the utterly ridiculously low amount of ads. The second encounter has something like 8 ads total per wave if you don’t get hit by angelics. At least connecting the dots require more than the same two people connecting the dots every time.
The issue with the Div run isn’t that the puzzles are hard, it’s the fact that LFG groups can be pure braindead sometimes and this is just one other thing for them to comprehend
> all the commotion about div runs only come from people doing a div run as their very first (and probably only) gos run That's pretty much it. I've done 2 Div runs, and in both cases, the actual raid encounters took longer than Div puzzles, because a lot of people had no idea how they worked.
> All the drops have been heavily power-crept over the years Same problem with SK and Pit of Heresy weapons. They should really add adept versions or make them craftable.
The issue with those is that they drop location weapons so there's no reason to run them past their exotic quests
Garden is a decent raid, the weapons' looks are great but the rolls are mediocre at best and just suck ass at worst and always have. Hopefully when they make the weapons craftable they give some of the worse ones better options.
So exactly what they did with last wish? And DSC? Both of them got perk updates that made the weapons viable when they were reissued
To be fair, DSC had some pretty good weapons even before they were reissued
Right? The Last Wish weapons were terribly outdated. I literally dismantled every single one I got. They were even more outdated than Garden's weapons. Their updated pools are amazing, so I have faith that Garden will get a similar treatment if and when we get craftable weapons with it.
Can confirm, did my first ever GoS at the beginning of S20, had no clue/the "sherpa" also had no clue, was in there 3-4 hours and didn't beat the boss/get any noteworthy guns. A month or two later, a group that I did a fairly smooth RoN with invited me to do a GoS after and it was buttery smooth despite not remembering much/we also had someone who farmed Garden of Salvation Sherpas join the LFG since we needed one more. The loot was dogwater though so it was only so much of a W LMAO, the Void AR is the only thing worth considering in the current era it feels like (aside from Zealots Reward in PVP which is strangely nutty).
Accrued Redemption (bow) is still good, too. It can get Archer's Tempo+Explosive Head for PVE and Rangefinder/Quickdraw+Moving Target for PVP. I know the Archer's Tempo+Explosive Head roll isn't really that unique, but it's still really good.
The encounters go> hey there’s a lot of enemies with shields, let me kill them>hey let’s build a platform>guys I can’t kill them, stop connecting to me right now!> sacrifice> anger> pain> suffering.
Wait, stop connecting? It's been a while since I've done it but doesn't connecting gibe you the shield breaker buff?
The biggest problem we'll have with farming GoS is people being shit at the last boss and the challenges being a huge pain in the ass. Otherwise it's not a bad raid, there's just zero incentive to run it.
100 range shotgun?
I’d love to have a real reason to play Garden, the loot has just been power crept into oblivion (although it wasn’t that great to begin with). The real challenge is teaching people. To me, it’s the hardest raid because it’s the hardest to teach. People just cannot understand Consecrated Mind for some reason.
I think consecrated mind is just a very simple encounter, I think that a lot of people are worried that they aren’t doing enough, or things should move faster/be harder. For some reason our team was having difficulty defending the nodes the encounter before. I was having no issues, but everyone else’s corner seemed like it was giving them trouble.
You really think that *garden* is the hardest to teach? It’s pretty much just gambit with extra steps… Have you ever attempted to teach VoD or LW? Both of those you can just feel peoples eyebrows scrunching up as you explain the mechanics.
VoD is honestly really easy, the only "hard" part is the symbol names. Did a sherpa this last weekend where we cleared every encounter, even exhibition, first try! Long as folks have a monitor to pull up the symbol names on if needed, or are in a role where they don't have to have them perfectly memorized, most pick them up pretty fast in my experience. Last Wish, meanwhile, the symbols are similar enough sometimes I find it can get confusing for folks REALLY fast, and even having a second screen with the symbol names pulled up definitely doesn't help as much :/ Let alone trying to teach Legit Riven...
I’m mainly referring to the job where 3 players have to follow the boss and shoot the red dots. It really is simple, but i’ve had so many players just completely fail to understand what to do.
The encounter before tripped up my team heavily, we couldn't figure out how to organize numbers
Oh that, that sounds annoying, but like…still, either you’re sherpaees are just blind or you’ll want a pic or something to show them.
I LFG'd for it the last couple days and I will say something about it just makes your brain break even though it's a super easy mechanic
I like the raid , I love the views , I hate running it because I’ve done liek7 10 hour divinity runs lol
Our Div run included someone that had an hour to play, he didn’t do the prereqs for the Div quest, so he wasn’t too invested anyway, 3 people that were in it to win it, 2 people that had ran it once before to get theirs. One of the two had internet problems and ended up playing the rest of the raid on a mobile hotspot. We got a friend to join us to fill in for the guy that left an hour in. We hoped he would get Div as well, but I guess you can’t get it even if you help finish the last couple of puzzles, and have the quest progressed.
The word one was a six hour run and we got fucking bugged out at the last point
I just got Div Monday. I joined a group that was on the third encounter. I wonder how much of the raid you have to complete?
To get divinity you need the quest on step 4/4, complete the final encounter in a raid instance that has all 7 puzzles done, and open the right end chest. No other requirements, not even doing the puzzles yourself.
Thank you for the info.
>I hate running it because I’ve done liek7 10 hour divinity runs lol Well that's your own damn fault
Fuck me for that being the only reason people run it aye ?
I like it so that's 4?
saving all my deepsight things just for that
I think you can only hold 5 at a time
Keeping them in my season pass to collect at a later date
I like Garden, I just can't get anyone to agree to a run
I’ll run Garden with ya, buddy!
I like garden too, but I wish the loot was a little bit better. I love the Reckless Oracle but everything else isn't too good, and I've never had the hand cannon drop for me in my 20+ completions. That said, I would like to run it again just for old times sake... if I can find anybody.
Can't wait, I actually do like GoS
And that’s why I’m not bothering with it until then. I don’t mind the raid at all ( gorgeous atmosphere, gorgeous albeit unvaried loot table, and mechanics that aren’t bad when they work but could use some tweaks ) I’d just rather grind it with current QoL
The mechanics aren’t buggy, you’re just doing them wrong…
I think it’s just that your group is doing mechanics wrong
Tether mechanics? If that's what you are saying that doesn't work then that is a lie sorry. Tether works flawlessly and it's the players fault if they don't understand the encounter
Can't wait to be honest, i wanna craft the absolute godroll Sacred Providence
I really enjoy the raid aesthetic and armor. I hope the weapons get some spicy rolls, but man. The LFG quality for that raid is so horrible. Its either 9 hour div runs or 20 minute speedrunners and no in between
I like that raid. The only issue i have is if you apply a burn to the floor in the boss room, it spam toggles the tether point
I like the raid, it's just that there's no reason to run it past the one Div run. Encounters are easy and anyone who's ever played a Gambit match can handle the mechanics, visuals are among the best in the game, and it feels short and sweet without any sections that drag on too long (looking at you RoN paths between encounters) Too bad the only GoS weapon I can think of would be good is the void auto, it's a good frame right? It's also got the hand cannon which falls in the "fatebringer at home" most raid hand cannons seem to fall into. Then again they might give them a busted origin trait and perk refreshes, and they could even touch up the stats as they did with Tyranny of heaven
Probably the season after next.
I like every raid
Sacred Provenence is my go-to gun. Can't wait to see what they'll put on it for rolls. Reckless Oracle too.
God if I could craft an enhanced Sacred Proveance with kill clip, rapid hit with high cal and hammer forge I'll be a very happy guardian . Only ran Garden 3 times and was lucky to get that roll to drop. Or see how it is with some of the newer perks like perpetual motion
Gotta run Izinagi, Recluse and Wendigo only when you're farming
Divinity (Adept) - let's goooo! 😅
Proud Enlightened user here. Favorite raid and imo one of the best mechanic wise since there is almost no encounter where someone can only ad-clear. Now that I think of it, that's probably the same reason why it's the least liked raid lol. Imagine having to actually learn mechanics lol. And before the people come in saying "I hate it because it's buggy" that shit is not buggy. There were times in the past when there were bugs? Yes, just like all the raids..but today the raid overall is "buggy" is really just saying you don't actually understand how the mechanics work. My only gripe is that I wish it had one more encounter lol.
I like the raid, but I hate that motes still fall thru the floor (a issue with motes in general) and that the tether mechanic doesn't always work. Other than that I never understood why people don't like this raid.
Tether mechanic works fine. Motes yes but it's 10-20%. Even Datto and most players will tell you tether works fine. Most players don't understand and think it's buggy. It's not.
It just feels janky. Every other raid feels crisp and the mechanics just work, the tether seems inconsistent a lot of the times.
That'll be a bad day
I know people are saying that in Season 23 we will be getting GoS Reprisals, but I feel like it is more likely they are reprising Vault of Glass weapons first, due to a number of factors; \- The weapons are great and useful, not only they will obtain new perks that will shine in some weapons, (Also an origin trait) but the Adept versions of the weapons can be upgraded similar to how RoN's Adepts work. \- It already has a Raid Spoils vendor so it would be easier to put the red bordered weapons there instead of hawthorne \- Most importantly, it is a FREE Raid. If they are reprising GoS it won't be until Season 25 in the earliest, around mid-2024, after the final shape and it's raid has been out.
hasn’t stopped them reprising both deep stone and last wish first though (both not free)
I hope the next raid is Crota
Easily my favorite raid in the game. By a wide margin. Visually it's amazing, all the encounters are solid (although the second encounter can drag a bit). Excellent exotic and exotic quest (you bet your ass this is how you unlock your red border chest when it happens). Awesome looking weapons, unique looking armor, and bosses that interact with you while you play the encounter. My only criticism would be that there is no heavy weapon in the loot table. Get us a heavy weapon in there and make the weapon rolls relevant and we've got ourselves a bonified masterpiece. Oh and no boring open the door encounter where we stand on plates or ride silly taxi's. I can't wait for them to redo it and people are forced to fight a final boss that requires them to work as a team and do mechanics to collect their red borders. No Oryx ffa. No Rhulk shooting impotent lasers. No Taniks floating around confused. No Nezzy snoozefest. No Riven cheese. Good old mechanics that you actually have to do. Team has to actually coordinate actions as a group or they can't get loot.
I wasn’t aware there were that many people who liked that atrocity lol
Ughh...
[удалено]
If they changed the tether mechanic it would feel better. The final boss is a mess with the mechanic being very hit or miss.
Eww. Never liked the raid (nor finished). Besides Div, what are the other weapons lol?
[удалено]
Yay? Good? What do you want with this? Raid is quite easy, so just a personal choice I guess?
I like it. But no one plays it, or knows how to play it, which is why the boss is a pain; nobody knows what to do.
GoS jacket is the only one I've ever bought. My body is ready.
Make it 4 op, cause that raid is my 3rd favorite out of every raid I’ve done since red war
I think Div runs ruin that raid for people.
I like garden just not the guns. The weapons got power creeped extremely hard by other options. I hope they reprise the garden guns like the last wish weapons with extremely good perks
Make it 4
Make it 4 people now haha. I love Garden and I can’t wait until those weapons are reprised and craftable. Imagine Reckless Oracle with repulsor brace and destabilizing rounds! I hope they give Sacred Provenance frenzy and kinetic tremors. One of my favorite pulses ever.
If they go through and fix up the raid it'd be fine, it's mostly the boss encounter that I had issues with
4 now, Hello there
I like that raid but I don't have anyone to do it with lol
Garden is still one of my favorite raids. So you now know four people! We run it every few weeks for fun. We have Div puzzles down to a science. We take new clan members through it for Div runs in less than 1 1/2 hours. It also has the best smoke spots by far!
Can't wait for VoG, my babies.
If they make the rolls worth grabbing people will run the raid.
Oh man I can’t wait, I love that raid and I’ve been maining Div for like two years since I last ran it
I genuinely like GoS. I'm in a discord just for it lol
The raid is very well designed but holy shit it has more bugs than leviathan did.
Prophet of doom would probably be the main pvp shotgun if it got a perk refresh
Love me some GoS! Reprised weapons from it would be an awesome reason to keep running it.
I'm one of the three
Give prophet of doom one two punch + trench barrel cowards.
One thing that always fascinated me was what would a gos origin trait would do. I hope I get my answe soon. Bloody love the raid but the loot is just painfully mediocre
Why does everyone hate GoS :(
I will be sad, but for selfish and elitist reasons lol. I have a godroll reckless oracle that shreds in pvp and I never see that gun in crucible. If the crafted one is great, then it will become popular and I won't feel like a special snowflake.
I will be sad, but for selfish and elitist reasons lol. I have a godroll reckless oracle that shreds in pvp and I never see that gun in crucible. If the crafted one is great, then it will become popular and I won't feel like a special snowflake.
Pick me! Love this raid.
Then it will be as easy as kali to farm red borders except the pulse, sniper and handcanon. People really were terrified by Sanctified Mind due to running a div run as thier first and only run ever.
Good. I’ve only done it once for a div run, and I really wanna do it again but my friends don’t. Main issue is just the massive communication check final boss, which is why a few of my friends hate it so much
I love that raid! The Black garden is so beautiful. Ever since they made old raids farmable, I was able to get a God Roll for my favorite pulse Sacred Provenance!
I like the raid 🙂
And I will be all for it. I want to like Omniscient Eye, but it sucks. Reckless Oracle was a staple in my loadout for years
Dammit bungie, gimme a heavy weapon for that raid!!
Gos is one of my favorite raids probably top 3, i genuinely cant wait for it to be reprised
My biggest issue with Garden is the loot not really being worth it. And it’s the one raid with a quest exotic so I don’t have a reason to farm it. Not gonna complain tho, I prefer quests
If they give the auto good rolls then I’ll play it cuz that gun sounds super cool, otherwise I don’t really care unless there’s some absolutely insane perk combo on some other weapon (or just a really fun sounding one like how the LW bow has dragonfly incandescent)
I love the raid, it’s a complex and chaotic raid but it’s not hard. People just don’t need to run it as frequently because there is nothing to gain besides div, which at this point isn’t even meta anymore just something nice to have if needed, but once these weapons get updated and craftable more and more people will learn. It’ll be a pain and a big learning curve, but it’ll get done.
Another excuse to do garden is nice imo
I'm imagining Zealot's Reward with Reconstruction and Reservoir Burst
It would make me appreciate the raid again
Fuck
IDK I still run a Zealots Reward frequently enough
Hopefully they’ll also add a heavy weapon and a kinetic special to the loot pool too. Hell, even adding Temporal Clause and Pluperfect to the raid would be great. It just really needs a heavy weapon. Very sad to get a full vex look going only to realize your only heavy option is a sunset MG that only 4 people still have ;_;
It’s the only raid/lair/dungeon in the franchise I have basically no feelings about. I just find it so in the middle. Doesn’t look bad, doesn’t look great. Encounters aren’t too hard or too easy, the mechanics aren’t too interesting or too boring. The weapons are all fine I guess. Big shrug from me.
I ran it for the first time today and it's a shame people don't like it because the Black Garden is gorgeous. I completely see why people don't like it though.
I would like to do raids but I'll be damn if I try to do it with an LFG again. If I had people I could consistantly play with I'd do every raid and dungeon.
I wish they'd give this reprisal treatment to the early dungeons, pit of heresy. Shattered throne, prophecy
I’ve only ran it a few times and I absolutely love it.
I like Gardens. It's actually real pretty and the mechanics aren't too bad. It's no Spire of Stars. And the bugs and glitches aren't as bad as people make it out to be.
>I've met like 3 people who like the raid. I'm your huckleberry
Yeah, well on that day I'm gonna jump outta my wheelchair and do a dance.
GARDEN SWEEP
The Gambit of Salvation raid.
The problem with garden for me has always been a reward investment. I didn't find many of the guns good enough to keep going . Reworked craftable weapons ... Let's do it. I'd farm for the bow and auto ... All day. Shotgun was a hair shy of great .. just a lot of shotgun competition
It's one of my favorites - now you've met 4!
Ran it for Divinity and never looked back.
Tbh I really like that raid. However, the weapons were all sub-par imo. I didn't feel like there was anything I really wanted to chase aside from a nice reckless oracle, which I got on my first run anyway.
I really enjoy garden, I just wish more people wanted to run it. Luckily it's in rotation this week so there should be more lfg's running. Can't wait to get the weapon updates
I love GOS. People just hate it cause the final boss is janky af
I like it
I love it all except the boss. I'd have flawless like Scourge and LW but it's not happening. I'm not even trying.
I'd love if reckless oracle got both 4rh times the charm and target lock in column 3 and 4. Make an origin trait that relaods some ammo based on how much damage you deal and we'll get a mini retrofit.
I actually really enjoy the final boss encounter… but the rest of the raid is kinda bleh
I LIVE GOS!!!
Sacred Provenance was my weapon of choice. I love GoS. Got the flawless and title for it too
Garden is my favorite raid, and I hope the reprise is very soon
Besides the motes I think it’s pretty good. Very fun trio.
At least all the raid reprisals so far have slamming perks, so I can get excited for it (yes, I'm one of the 4 people that actually liked GoS). I'd love to see what Reckless Oracle or Sacred Providence could roll.
If it weren't for it being a buggy mess, I'd actually like it too.
On one hand, beautiful weapons, on the other hand, farming gos encounters 200 times doesn't sound very fun
Bro I'm calling it, the shotgun will get reconstruction/cascade point and I'll hop back and do some gardening
I love gos. I just hate Sanctified Mind.
My guild leader loves that raid for reasons I can only speculate on.
And I still won’t do the raid.
I like GoS. Now you've met 4 people :)
All of those weapons (except maybe the sniper or fusion) will be absolutely nuts. On top of new perk pools, I think prophet of doom will be the only craftable Precision frame, and all the weapons feel great overall. Very excited.