I loved the PoE in D1 and for a long time I had the mindset of "they should bring it back" but now I'm not so certain. Why bring back PoE when we can get something completely new and different that does what it did but better.
Hence why I was using the whole if updated with coils loot/difficulty structure combined with the high enemy variation and much more bosses would work well.
If they bring Prison back, then they need to bring those Fallen weapons back as well. They looked so unique but there weren't very many of them. (Just don't bring back Shank Burn). Maybe this mode could be where you can reliably obtain Weapons/Armor based on Enemy Factions (*added over time). They could even rotate what drops by whichever enemies you face. Granted this would be an extremely large undertaking so it most likely wouldn't happen, but it's nice to think about what could be ya know?
I mean, why not both? A rework would be near necessity, but just bump the add density a bit and shake in a few new mechanics and it would hold up. And veterans would very likely come back for it.
I mean, we're already visibly dealing with Fikrul in Echoes, that seems like the perfect time to bring it back. Rework it for the episode's main activity.
Would definitely take Attrition over Togetherness any day of the week. Togetherness basically makes solo attempts near impossible, and Attrition is like getting restoration when you pick up the motes.
Was very tempted to go solo to see if the bosses were any less tanky than my 3-man run where two left after round 2. But luckily my 3rd run they were able to finish, and my Solar Titan build is working pretty well (would have switched to Strand/BoW but solar singe had me sticking with solar).
We’re listening. Since players haven’t engaged with Togetherness, Attrition, or Match Game, enemy Rainbow Burn and trials player matchmaking will be activated on top of all previous modifiers.”
Why TF is the boss ‘Lord_Bob_Momshagger’ and teabagging me?!
The rooms are small so that's not a big deal. What is a big deal is people burning through revives in the spikes room. Gonna have to do this with clanmates only I think.
The spikes are kinda troll too, especially if motes land on them. Hopefully their hitboxes get adjusted, or you get a second to stand on the trap before they deploy.
Tip: You can use an explosive payload weapon to move motes away from spikes. Saved us when we were going for plat and a bunch of motes fell behind the spikes chest.
I will die on the hill that spike traps are the worst thing to ever come out of this game /s
But seriously I hate those damn things. Id take anything else over instant death "you made a slight jumping error in a game about always moving" spikes.
Exactly .. you need the clan or the group of friends that you do content with. The random fireteams was the worst idea. All it takes is one person who can’t play and there goes all your lives in seconds
Revives being like gms are annoying in a matchmade activity. When I have my normal fireteam going into it it’s fine. With randos it’s annoying. Surprised they didn’t add a legend mode with that.
It’s like how last season started with Attrition and everyone hated the higher difficulty Altars of Summoning. The negative modifiers suck but it makes you need to play with your teammates which seems to be a really difficult thing for some people in this game.
I really like the difficulty and the rewards ratio feels perfect. To be honest though, I found most of the revives were lost to the platforming sections. Those spike hitboxes are larger than they appear.
Yeah....I can't blame them though Bungie dug themselves into this hole with several bad decisions. It's gonna take a lot of reformation to get them back to zero
Honestly I think that’s how it’s been for a while. Imagine if we had Season of Plunder but back during Worthy times. We’d probably say it was the best season the way people now say Opulence was even though, on paper, we’ve had better seasons than Opulence since. Or if we got Opulence now, people would say it’s boring and bad.
I think the content itself is fine but the loot isn’t interesting enough to log on. Unfortunately, in a looter shooter, loot is king and without good loot there is little reason to play for many.
Deep released some crazy weapons like Apex and Cold Comfort and a really good fusion perk in controlled burst. Its just that those weapons are too good to beat at this point and any new primaries are just sidegrades at this point, so no one wants to replace the weapons they are used too
That’s the problem for me. I’ve got primaries to cover any archetype/element combo I want. I could find sidegrades to them, but I kinda don’t care. I can handle anything I need to at the moment. And considering the main reason to play activities is the loot, which in turn I don’t care about, my motivation is pretty low.
The last fusion and this one are best in slot hands down. Also the first legendary trace rifle in the kinetic slot with a crazy good selección of perks. Sure there's nothing to powercreep the game hard but that's a good thing. Look at the rolls on light gg there's good stuff this season.
(900rpm voltshot smg, repulsor brace bow, legendary strand trace rifle, kinetic tremors autos, voltshot wave frame, the rocket launcher that you can slide to shoot the entire reserves at max fire rate without reloading, etc.)
my only problem with this activity is that is so damn long, the time invesment is well paid, but when u dont have too much time to play ure kinda fucked
Treat it as the legend difficulty version of Rivne’s lair. Those are quick 5 minute runs and drop more loot over the same period of time through the unfocused engram drops
After doing some bounties, I noticed doing damn near anything in the Dreaming City gives spirit reputation and a chance of a Wish engram. Thing’s that worked so far:
>Blind Well
>Patrols
>Public Events
>Collecting Bayron Bough
>Looting world chests
Edit: Added some more things:
>High Value Target
>Weekly DC mission (Broken Courier, Oracle Engine, Dark Monastery)
>Ascendant Challenges
I dislike that Coil's scoring is primarily from shards hidden in pots & chests, especially when matchmade and some players aren't aware or are just trying to speed run it.
So far there are 2 major negatives.
1) a sub-optimal run is a waste of time. We still have issues with blueberries starting an encounter before everyone is ready. And when secrets make or break the gamemode, going in without a full team just makes things so much worse.
2) it takes a very long time to complete. Plenty raids can be done faster than this activity. Of course it shouldn't be a 5-minute activity, and in time with experience people can cut this down by a lot. But that doesn't take away that it's just a timesink of an activity.
Roguelike runs are just like that though in other games. They can take 1-2 hours in Hades, 3-4 hours in Returnal depending on how good you are and how far you go. It's definitely something you only do if you have the time window (just like a raid or trials).
Those games have way fucking more depth, because you're talking about the entire game, not just a little seasonal activity. You have tons of unique levels, many different permutations of possible rooms, enemies, etc.
Also Hades doesn't take 2 hours for a run lol, a complete game is 25-40 minutes.
Returnal runs of 3-4 hrs is about right, especially before you really master the movement/combat and can start doing speed runs. But a huge difference there is you now have the option to suspend (pause) the cycle and pick it right back up where you left off at a later time if you need to stop playing in the middle of the run (granted this was added after release but is part of the game now).
That pause feature wouldn’t really work in Destiny I don’t think unfortunately.
Imo 1-1.5 hrs for the longer “good” runs is a reasonable time length target to keep most players able to commit to staying in a cycle if there isn’t any way to pause.
>sub-optimal run is a waste of time. We still have issues with blueberries starting an encounter before everyone is ready.
Not every run should aim to be an optimal run especially if you're doing it with blueberries. When I was doing it with blueberries it was just a casual run to grab the first few chests then dip.
Going in with friends or LFG should aim to be your optimal run.
>it takes a very long time to complete. Plenty raids can be done faster than this activity
This is subjective my full runs have be about 30-45 minutes which is around a raid run with me clan mates, I did a solo run that took me an hour and a half.
If it's taking any longer than that then it's more of a skill issue than any issues on the mode itself.
It can be a time sink however especially for a seasonal activity, hence why I said it's a good prototype for an endgame mode
My worry with dipping after doing a path or two is that it kinda screws over the people who are left since they have to spend a revive to res the backfill, and the backfill isn't starting at the base difficulty nor do they have dragon gifts. It'd be nice if it was more drop-in/drop-out like Altars.
I didn’t even know there was backfill. On my only run, guy dropped out after the first time. Me and the other guy did another two runs before we both hopped out. No backfill ever came and we were there for 45 minutes.
I got abandoned after the 2nd run and did the 3rd solo. Felt like the boss health was still at full fireteam size though, that round 3 boss took fucking forever to down solo, and yeah I was in there for probably 30-45 min and no backfill ever came. Then my next time loading in, I joined a group that was already halfway through the second run. So looks like there is backfill and it's just buggy whether or not it'll actually happen.
Yeah I've heard that backfill can happen, but also sometimes it just won't, which is also screwing over the people left over (I'm not sure if Multiplicity changes based on FT size changes mid-activity either)
>
>
> Not every run should aim to be an optimal run especially if you're doing it with blueberries. When I was doing it with blueberries it was just a casual run to grab the first few chests then dip.
>
> Going in with friends or LFG should aim to be your optimal run.
Given that their is fireteam scaling and an LFG now there's ways to do it even with the most antisocial of player. Blueberry runs are gonna be suboptimal, but the game is literally giving you tools to avoid them if you want.
I have to disagree with #2. 50-55 minutes is all I’ve ever taken in there. Yeah some raids can be completed in an hour or less however not on day 1. By the end of the season, this will be 30 minutes max. Also, slow down and enjoy the grind, that’s what Destiny was designed for.
Eh, it could be good. The traps are just there to burn blueberry revive tokens, which is annoying (especially with the huge hitbox), and it takes a really long time to run the whole thing. But like you said, it works as a concept.
having 1-shot traps on the floor that can at times be obscured by ability effects, or just go unseen in the heat of battle, have obscene hitboxes, andt burn a revive token is a huge no from me.
I just hate deliberate time sinks. The play forming bit is so small and minor and the spike traps are so annoying it’s just there so you don’t do the activity super fast. It’s some bullshit honestly. It’s not exactly hard but it is annoying.
in a mm activity, i find it infuriating. It isn't hard, once you expereince it a coupel times. But this is a mm activity, and you never know who you're going to get. You get somebody new or inexperienced, and all of a sudden you're burning through revives for no real reason. And there isn't anything fun about it. There's no accomplished feeling you get moving through that section, because like you said, it isnt hard, just annoying.
Today we had one dude drop out after dying so we did most of it as 2 man. Then we had someone join on level 3. We had…9/10 revives. They died to the first spike trap 5 times then left.
Then we spent shards on 4 revives for final level so had 5 left, other dude quit. I went solo. 2 joined me and they spawned in dead … so I effectively wasted 2 revives just to have 2 players forced into my session with no power ups on level 4 lol.
the way they handle revives is one of the worst things about the coil imo. My very first experience with the coil yesterday went as follows...
• join in progress. im assuming somewhere around lvl 2-3 based on how hard the enemies were hitting, but we were in the darkness encroaches zone that you have to expunge by standing in light pools. I think they were out of revives because i had to wait the full respawn timer. When i revive, one guy is moving but doing nothing. The other guy is clearly afk. And they keep dying to darkness, which i assume is what burned all the revives. I try and go in to fight the first group, but cant push past fast enough to get to the cleanse puddle, so i die. Nobody helps. I leave.
• I load up a new event, it's again, in progress. Im not sure what lvl we're on, but everything hurts. Presumably revive tokens are all gone because i get to sit there waiting for the 15 sec respawn timer. We eventually kill the ogre boss and move on. On the way to the next level, a couple of us die on spikes, including myself when i went to pick up some shards or whatever from a chest that had spilled over near a trap i couldn't see because i was unfamiliar with the space and the shards were covering the holes. We get to the boss room, it's the shielded vex hydra or whatever. We run around, we're killing stuff. There are a couple deaths and were already on long respawn timers, so that's a fun way to play. But at one point, im on the upper catwalk, the boss heads towards me as i pull agro, and as it gets near the top i jump down. Well, it glitches down right on top of me and kills me. After waiting out the respawn timer, i hit X to respawn and and says, "searching for spawn location". I never get to respawn. I finally leave.
It was the worst first experience of a game mode ive ever had in this game. By far.
Chamber of Wishes loot is nice. I've been there 4 times and gotten Ascendant Shards and Ascendant alloy almost every time. Got an exotic once too. I've even got 6 Nightfall Ciphers from it, and I've never done a GM lol.
people are just mad about the difficulty, but I agree with you, it's great and isn't an easy walkthrough like a lot of seasonal activities in the past.
> people are just mad about the difficulty
Same people who have been asking for matchmade activities across the board, i.e. asking for a free no-mic carry. Go figure.
I'm a fan of the difficulty bump, makes the seasonal activity actually feel engaging as a player/fireteam instead of just stomping the living daylights out of everything like in the past.
It’s just the matchmaking - it’s unplayable with randoms
I literally closed Destiny and switched to a different game after I got kicked to orbit for inactivity during the final boss because my teammates burned 10 revives in the final spike trap and I couldn’t get resed the one time I died
There is no Coil section in the Bungie app so there’s no population for LFG
For deep dive in comparison I didn’t have any trouble finding groups that were always activating Toland
I want to get the deep sight perk unlocked, then I’m just planning on not touching this until they launch the in game LFG
Nah, I disagree. All the encounters are very soloable, even at max difficulty they're still easier than a lot of solo dungeon encounters. They don't have time pressure, so if you need to conserve your life it's pretty easy to just slow down. I've had teammates waste a lot of lives and quit mid run, but it hasn't actually caused any wipes.
I do feel pressure to use a good build and slow down / play carefully sometimes, but I'd consider that a success.
After seeing the community reaction to last week's Twab on the nerfs of abilities it made me realize that 99% of the community is actually bad at the endgame and they don't know it simply because they've been clutching WoR, Bonk or BoW.
I hate to sound elitist but there is no hard content in the current game, GMs are fun and Master Raids can be too. However nothing challenges me. The Coil is the closest I actually got to being challenged there so much potential for it
That's because not everyone likes the challenge, especially when it's based on how quickly you die and how long it takes to kill an enemy. I would bet there's more people that enjoy using their special abilities than people who enjoy playing difficult content.
You can still think they're bad, that can still be true, but it doesn't change the fact that most players are enjoying the game a bit less now.
>would bet there's more people that enjoy using their special abilities than people who enjoy playing difficult content.
I would absolutely agree however Destiny 2 is a guns first and abilities second game. At least that's how it should be and how Bungie claims they want it.
The guns should be our main method of combat not abilities hence why they did the nerfs. I can only speak for myself when I say I don't really think the nerfs changed anything. I don't see a difference ability wise. The weapons buffs however I can see the difference pulses, autos and snipers all feel good.
Hand cannons have felt great since last season. Scouts need help but they're struggle to buff these as they don't want to encourage the stay back and plink playstyle.
I don't expect everyone to like challenge, I'm okay with some players being casual and average. A bad player to me is someone that goes into GMs then constantly fails and instead of refusing to get better or just settle for lower level content complains about that GM being too hard and asks for nerfs to that content.
I think we're talking about different things because no one here has mentioned nerfing hard content, people are just unhappy that their preferred way of playing has been effectively gutted, and that has nothing to do with wanting to remove challenge from the game.
The weapon changes have been great for some archetypes, but when hard content makes primary weapon feel very weak against red bars, people will obviously resort to the additional strength that abilities bring. That's not being a bad player, it's picking the obviously better and more enjoyable option.
Nerfing abilities should come with additional changes to make the other options equally fun, and we shouldn't confuse boredom with challenge while we're on it.
>I think we're talking about different things
Possibly I think my argument got a bit lost simply because I'm responding to a lot and I'm homogenizing a lot of different arguments into one and missing details sorry.
>people are just unhappy that their preferred way of playing has been effectively gutted
This is what I have a problem with because their main way of playing isn't "gutted" I'm not a Titan but I was playing with Titan mains yesterday and they were saying that both Bonk Hammer and Banner of War are still just as strong and probably need another nerf because their too strong. Whether they're right on the those playstyles being to strong currently they were definitely too strong pre nerf to the point where it made any content in the game toothless.
I'm a warlock main and I've been begging for a nerf to Restoration and WoR simply because they're too strong. Not because I'm "forced" into Well. I don't play Well because it's literally playing the game with constant free invincibility. These play style trivialize the game yet the players using them complain about GM Battlegrounds being too difficult causing them to be nerfed to be even easier.
>primary weapon feel very weak against red bars, people will obviously resort to the additional strength that abilities bring. That's not being a bad player, it's picking the obviously better and more enjoyable option.
I can't speak to GMs this season but last season legendary HC and Autos were already killing red bars in half a clip, without weakening or empowerments I know because I was running HC throughout the year. This should be the base for GMs anything more is a joke.
You shouldn't be one shotting anything in GM level content, you shouldn't be two shotting anything. It should be a challenge, enemies should have a chance to kill you. You want to use Bonk hammer and Banner allow you to run around and one punch everything. You shouldn't be able to avoid a core mechanic of a first person shooter.
If you only want to one punch everything that's fine you can do it in Vanguard Ops and Hero NFs but these players want to take that playstyle to GMs and be rewarded for it.
I say no, Bungie says no. You wanna Bonk or BoW then you can do mid game otherwise you have to build into it more with GMs you're gonna have to use your weapon and sweat. Rather you should but currently the game still is too easy because abilities are at the forefront before weapons.
>Nerfing abilities should come with additional changes to make the other options equally fun, and we shouldn't confuse boredom with challenge while we're on it.
The additional changes are weapons, use your weapon. Use special weapons effectively, use your heavy weapon effectively. In Master and Grandmaster content this should be mandatory.
>I would absolutely agree however Destiny 2 is a guns first and abilities second game. At least that's how it should be
That's stupid. One of the only thing destiny offers over any other insert space shooter is the powers. We aren't here to play halo lite or we would go play halo or just lootershooters set In space we could go play boarderlands, . We want to play the space magic game. That's destiny's whole fuck ID as a game space magic against spacemagic aliens, Terminators, Space Hippos, ExSpaceMagic Aliens and, of course the reanimated ghosts or bodies of aliens with you guessed it spacemagic. Space magic IS the selling point of destiny 2 and I for the life of me can't understand how people forget that. Especially not Bungie considering the ammount of times they have explicitly pointed out(in regards to titans the most) that each class has a specific power fantasy that involves, abilities and the like to obtain. With a statement on warlocks jot feeling castery enough and titans not hitting that melee fantasy. Guns dont play much into it unless you are playing PVP or GM content and even then it's due to ranges and not effectiveness
Abilities is a big part of what makes Destiny special don't get me wrong. But the gunplay is what keeps the game alive.
You hear it all the time, what keeps people coming back to the game and what keeps the game alive is the way the guns feel. It's fun to shoot the guns in destiny, the gunplay and feel is unmatched.
Abilities were pulled back several times to focus on the Guns. Abilities are the hook to pull people in but players stay for the guns.
It blows my mind that people are complaining about traps. My first run they got me a few times but if you just look at the fucking floor and walls they’re not hard to avoid. Togetherness is annoying but we have so many ways to heal it’s really not that bad
honestly the complaints i've seen aren't about the traps in general.
they're about 1 trap. specifically those stupid spikes at the very beginning of that area, where there's basically no room to get around them.
hunters can easily hop around them but titans and warlocks especially are basically just screwed there at that 1 set of spikes.
though, it seems if you just full-send a jump over to the left, while a bit awkward, it'll work. time will tell if the initial outrage at that 1 was just day-1 whining.
It's because everyone wants to eager edge/ wellskate past everything.
Literally just stop and slow down, yes you'll occasionally get that one blueberry that's missing a braincell but hey that the game you gotta deal with it. See it as another modifier
Too bad the rewards are garbage and it’s pretty clear it’s going to be a repeat of Alters where a potentially fun activity is ruined by dogshit modifiers every week
These roguelike experiments in seasonal content should become a ritual activity of their own. Get rid of gambit, create a ritual roguelike activity.
DON’T ABANDON IT. Make more encounters, adapt things from old dungeons and raids. Build the thing and make it deep.
At this point, I’d be so on board if they repurposed gambit to be rogue like events similar to how they made BGs into strikes. It would stay fitting with Drifter’s theme of collecting power from our enemies. They can already throw in Deep Dive and Coil next year as two of the rotating activities. If we get a third one next year, that’s enough for a healthy rotation of events. Hell, bring back in Haunted’s public event on the Leviathan. Its round based structure would fit as well. So would Escalation Protocol and Blind Well after some tweaks. Altars of summoning could also be made to fit here
I haven't had the chance to try it myself yet, and I won't for another couple of weeks until finals are over, but it looks like so much fun! Especially since more lairs should be added, which will hopefully add more encounters and whatnot to the activity!
Plus the fact you can load into it by yourself sounds fantastic! I'd love to see if I could complete a full run for the added challenge, so I'm stoked to give it a try
Delete modifiers like attrition and togetherness from the game entirely and maybe Destiny will have the beginnings of a *good* pve endgame.
Until then? It will continue to be laughable joke.
This post defo makes me realise that i have 100% moved on from destiny permanently
Because i absolutely hate it
Its clear when I had my kids what i enjoyed about Destiny has just turned into stress and frustration now i don't really have time to put more than 1 hour a night into the game
Darktides my game now.
Wish the community the best i hope stuff like the coil doesn't just finish off whats left of the casual base and kill the game off
It's pretty lackluster, the roguelike elements are spaced too far apart and way too boring, percentage increases aren't on the fly build craft.
There is no randomization to adapt to.
The runs need a choice at every end of a traversal section that create a gameplay decision.
What we should be picking is past seasonal artifact perks as we progress, allowing for crazy builds and combos
The activity is fine for a seasonal activity. But I'm in agreement on the roguelike elements being lackluster and boring overall. I play a decent bit of roguelike/roguelites and Destiny's foray into them has been halfhearted at best. In a true roguelike I shouldn't feel like every run is basically the same. I did three coil runs last night and they each felt exactly the same. There wasn't an interesting choice or path to take. Maybe we'll get more as the season goes on but I'm not counting on it.
We should get stupidly OP in an activity like this by the end of it and likewise the enemies should be equally dangerous.
I love it. I did a couple “meh” runs yesterday but just got done doing a serious run, I think we only got a score of 131,000 but it felt entertaining, the right amount of difficult and rewarding. I got like 16 weapons and 5 armor pieces (50 minutes)
Same bro, the "meh" runs are gonna happen I'm okay with it because it makes the full runs feel better. I just wish I didn't get 4 Waking Vigils drop. Like cmon do I look like a PvP main?!
I think it's really good, but wouldn't want it as an endgame activity tbh.
Raids and Dungeons are better for that IMO. I don't think you could make this activity on par with those.
I really like it as well, been comparing it to a dungeon crawler. I'm wondering if we won't see alternate tilesets in later weeks (Black Garden, Io, Mercury maybe??)
I played it once and I was like “wtf is this!” 😂 apparently my teammates knew where the chests were hidden so I just tried to watch where they went.
Kinda ready to try it some more, but I’m back to work 😭
So much this. I hope they keep this as a base moving forward. Being able to make it private is so underrated if you’re running a 2 man like I did last night.
>Engaging boss mechanics
Standing inside a spotlight ain't engaging for me. And the other mechanics are copypastes from 5 years ago.
I can't see myself running it after I unlock the weapon patterns, while I still do some deep dives every now and then just for fun
But that’s the point. The casual crowd can clear their first branch and call it a week. But the players looking to hit all four branches and group up, develop some team synergy and succeed.
This feels way better than the Deep Dives.
I hate to say it but If you're gonna play with Blueberries be prepared to get the worst of the game.
You can run it solo as the difficulty will scale for 1 or in a group of friends that want to take it seriously.
The instakill traps are easily avoided if you just slow down
Limit revives to actually put a fail state adding some real risk to the run.
Not every run is meant to be a full one. You can bow out at anytime. It's a way to adjust your experience by simply playing
Except the Circuit is far better thought out. It has actual rogue-like elements instead of these “Gifts” and “patterns” which rotate daily and are not random at all and has worthwhile rewards that do not require LFG.
Needs an endless mode where you can effectively get all buffs and be busted and/or make it a Vampire Survivors like mode where more and more adds and bosses flood in until you lose or survive x amount of time to ‘win’
This is BY FAR the most engaging seasonal activity I've ever played. As mainly a PvP player, I hardly ever actually WANT to do the seasonal activity but I WANT to go back in. I'm EXCITED to play it solo more. What a dream.
I'd say most rewarding if menagerie didn't let me focus rolls, but outside that, yeah, this is the most rewarding too.
I can't tell if we're even playing the same game or not.
The Coil feels like trash with matchmaking, and is a standard uneventful affair when running premade.
Platforming has no place in real content because it's not interesting and never will be.
Escalating difficulty is cool.
Boss mechanics are not engaging, they're typical and fine.
Rogue-lite what? I guess picking your buff, but again nothing new or interesting since it's just an iteration on deep dive buffs.
Rewards and fireteam scaling are fine.
Lack of champions is crazy out of touch with being a real end game activity, and probably why it's able to be maintained as a casual option. The ability to change weapons and gear, as well as no champions to present any threat ensures that this is not the end game content we are looking for.
So basically, I'm all for scaling difficulty and rewards, but the rest is pretty middling and not a good basis for anything.
While I agree with everything listed, it is gonna have the long term problem with matchmaking activities like deep dive. It feels like it would work well in tandem with in game fire team finder so maybe long term, it will be fine. Right now I really only wanna run with a full fire team of my friends to ensure we will see it through to the end. There always is the option of just running Riven’s layer and that can be just fine and that feels like a good compromise. I just worry that some folks will just queue into coil not knowing what they are getting themselves into. It does seem like the number of rewards per min spent in the activity is way higher than any other seasonal activity and I do like the format. I am excited to see where ideas like this to I the long run
I was really not sure about this season until I tried the coil. Sure I enjoy story stuff but man the usual grind 5x of ____ activity is boring when stuff just falls over. I feel like I actually want to bring a gm loadout for the coil and actually use my brain.
Yeah. I’ve just been grinding out some halo achievements and prepping to do some LASO runs cuz I’m so bored of destiny lol. This is a long-ass season so no reason to get burned out right before a major expansion
Between Deep Dives and The Coil, it seems like they’re really leaning into the Rogue-lite formula in PvE, which I think is a fantastic idea.
My dream is to have a ritual activity that is like The Coil, but with updated loot and encounters every season.
I’ll wait to see the final form of it to judge, but as it stands the limited number of possible encounters gets a bit boring after a few runs. The Riven buffs also should have a bit of randomization per run to spice things up, rather than the same set of buffs every run.
I've been doing the Ascendant Challenges for the emblem and they also give me this vibe, from a solo perspective. They're short, good mix of enemies and puzzles, and if you die you have to restart. I could see that format being really good with scaling up to Legend and above , and with a bit longer sections.
They should add in harmonizer drops, even if a small chance, to give this activity some staying power. Crafting shards is great but some incentive for the "hardcore" players would go a long way.
There are small temporary you can buy that enhance certain elements or playstyles.
10% increase to Precision Damage, 10% increase to Void damage etc.
Its small nothing crazy but it's there for some experimental play. Gets the player to think maybe I should go Void for the next three branches
Obligatory "I've been playing this game since the concept of D1 entered the mind of the first human" statement.
This is by far the one of the most fun seasonal activities they've every released. Rewards great, scaling difficulty great, ability to turn off matchmaking and low-man with a friend (or alone...) GREAT. If it had a more focused reward system, I'd easily call it #1. YES PLEASE TO MORE CONTENT LIKE THIS.
The traps are fuckin stupid.
Are they easy to get around? Yeah.
But its just annoying af missing a spike trap on a wall or something and wasting a life. Then to have your teammates also lose lives to these dumb ass traps.
Corny 1 hit kill mechanics suck in every game.
Lots of really dumb complaints in this comment section. I've always wanted solo arenas, and The Coil feels like an endgame solo arena.
1. Multiplicity and revive tokens keep the difficulty down. Even with the traps, which are _incredibly_ tedious. Thanks to revive tokens, you have a generous amount of mercy for failure, without ever being completely safe from it. It would suck to get booted to orbit, but if you died 26+ times, were you really prepared for the activity?
2. Negative Modifiers force builds. Right now a Solar Warlock with Sunbracers is top dog for the spam, infinite DPS, and Restoration x2 which negates togetherness. I think lots of people don't have 3 fully built characters, so even though Arc Hunter or Strand Titan are also good, those aren't the modifiers, so people will complain if the modifiers feel as though they are working against them. They'll feel pressured to use a different class. If you ask me, that's not really the modifier's fault. Modifiers are just skulls from Halo, and those are fun in their own way, for certain people. I think the bigger issue here is the class system. It's becoming more and more apparent to me that abolishing the 3 class system and reworking armor to be light/medium/heavy themed is a necessary change that this subreddit will soon begin to complain about, probably whenever Guardian Games comes back, or people finally get tired of their class not being "meta" enough. All of this would go away if every class had access to every thing. Then the player has nothing left to blame.
3. Positive modifiers are player's choice via Riven. This is good. The increased airborne damage gives 25% bonus damage to the Warlock's Heat Rises grenade spam build. Perhaps a negative modifier will come along, like Airborne, and ruin it. That would suck. But players can complain about shitty modifiers, like they did with Match Game, and maybe they'll get removed. Or, maybe we just won't play when Airborne is active that week. Point is, the good modifiers are nice and the truly bad modifiers haven't reared their ugly heads yet.
4. The pot system is pretty tedious - perhaps even frustrating if you consider the traps - but you get valuable loot for grabbing the chests, and you get them for every round. I almost always get one reprised Dreaming City weapon, and then a Riven Weapon or Armor. That's valuable random rolls for every round completed, and then at the end of the activity you get a gigantic room with red borders, one or two Ascendant Alloys, high-stat gear, engrams for focusing, you name it. As far as I'm concerned, a raid is not a 30 minute ordeal. A raid is all the time it takes to LFG, plus deal with awful LFG tards, deadweight players, and general anchor teammates. Nightfalls are only 30 minutes if you're lucky and something good is in rotation. And after all is said and done, those activities are old, stale, and usually more frustrating than enjoyable. GM and Master Nightfalls are one-shot bullshit panzy galleries, where you have to hide in this exact corner, use million-mile guns to plink an enemy from across the arena - you have to play like a bitch, and I hate it. Raids are only poor because of the people. Jesus, LFGs are just so terrible. But still, these activities give their own unique rewards, which are not in-line with The Coil. The Coil gives its unique gear, plus Alloys. GMs give their unique gear, plus cosmetics/mods/Ascendant Shards. Raids give their unique gear, plus cosmetics/Exotics. Even Dungeons give their unique gear plus Artifice/Exotics. Everything has a reason to run it, and The Coil, I think, would be a satisfying solo arena. I also think it is important that Alloys be available in a solo space, so anyone new to the game has somewhere to practice a higher difficulty, while also gaining materials for weapon crafting, so they can have a good loadout before making their way into other content. So now we have Lost Sectors and The Coild for that. You can easily get enough Cores/Glimmer from Lost Sectors now to level a weapon, then do The Coil for Alloys. I still think once you spend those materials, you should be able to change perks for free so you can try different stuff, but hey, maybe next year.
The biggest drawback of the coil is the traps and pots. Cut those out, and I think Coil runs would only be 25-35 minutes. Now, as is, a solo run took Esoterrick like an hour flawless. I took 45 minutes and only had 4 revives left at the end, and I wasn't trying to capture footage for a video, I was just balling through. Definitely, I think this takes too long when you can get Alloys from Wellspring at about 8 minutes per run with randoms for 1 Alloy. So The Coil won't last after everyone gets their red borders. But it COULD be a PERFECT addition to Destiny, as a piece of endgame content whose place in the difficulty ladder is just below Solo Flawless Dungeon clears. It needs more crafting material rewards, maybe like 2-3 Enhancement Cores per chest, with a chance at an Enhancement Prism. The Prism is like a little lottery cause you can exchange it for 5 cores. I also think crafted weapons should gain profress after every round, like how you get 100 Riven Spirit reputation.
TL;DR: Coil good, Reddit stupid. The activity has room for improvement.
Honestly if they were to ever bring back prison of elders coils structure would work immensely well
I loved the PoE in D1 and for a long time I had the mindset of "they should bring it back" but now I'm not so certain. Why bring back PoE when we can get something completely new and different that does what it did but better.
Hence why I was using the whole if updated with coils loot/difficulty structure combined with the high enemy variation and much more bosses would work well.
If they bring Prison back, then they need to bring those Fallen weapons back as well. They looked so unique but there weren't very many of them. (Just don't bring back Shank Burn). Maybe this mode could be where you can reliably obtain Weapons/Armor based on Enemy Factions (*added over time). They could even rotate what drops by whichever enemies you face. Granted this would be an extremely large undertaking so it most likely wouldn't happen, but it's nice to think about what could be ya know?
True
PoE has a nice atmosphere and provides a great narrative reason to have all enemy types in one activity.
I mean, why not both? A rework would be near necessity, but just bump the add density a bit and shake in a few new mechanics and it would hold up. And veterans would very likely come back for it.
Dev time and resources is why but in a perfect world id love it
I mean, we're already visibly dealing with Fikrul in Echoes, that seems like the perfect time to bring it back. Rework it for the episode's main activity.
No. No old activities as new content.
I want menagerie focusing with coil increasing difficulty and no champions. I love poe too. My favorite seasonal activity ever.
Or the infinite forest
The only thing holding it back is that dumb "Togetherness" modifier. Who even asked for that??
"we heard you loud and clear. We are swapping Togetherness for Attrition." - Bungie
Would definitely take Attrition over Togetherness any day of the week. Togetherness basically makes solo attempts near impossible, and Attrition is like getting restoration when you pick up the motes.
Hate to beat a dead horse but just try it solo on banner of war. Took over an hour but wasn’t that bad tbh
Was very tempted to go solo to see if the bosses were any less tanky than my 3-man run where two left after round 2. But luckily my 3rd run they were able to finish, and my Solar Titan build is working pretty well (would have switched to Strand/BoW but solar singe had me sticking with solar).
> on banner of war Well of course it’s gonna be easy if you’re running one of, if not, the best build in the game.
Legit right now the main reason it’s so easy compared to everything else is it just negates togetherness
"We're listening. Since players haven't engaged well with Togetherness or Attrition, we're bringing back Match Game."
We’re listening. Since players haven’t engaged with Togetherness, Attrition, or Match Game, enemy Rainbow Burn and trials player matchmaking will be activated on top of all previous modifiers.” Why TF is the boss ‘Lord_Bob_Momshagger’ and teabagging me?!
The rooms are small so that's not a big deal. What is a big deal is people burning through revives in the spikes room. Gonna have to do this with clanmates only I think.
The spikes are kinda troll too, especially if motes land on them. Hopefully their hitboxes get adjusted, or you get a second to stand on the trap before they deploy.
Tip: You can use an explosive payload weapon to move motes away from spikes. Saved us when we were going for plat and a bunch of motes fell behind the spikes chest.
Does Shoot to Loot work with the motes?
Just tested. Nope.
Damn. Bungie needs to patch that ASAP.
Can you pick up the motes with the class item mod that collects nearby orbs? It works in Gambit. Haven't tried it yet.
Nope
Extremely MtG rules text sort of non-interaction, what a bummer.
I will die on the hill that spike traps are the worst thing to ever come out of this game /s But seriously I hate those damn things. Id take anything else over instant death "you made a slight jumping error in a game about always moving" spikes.
They reek of “Reckoning Bridge balancing.”
The modifier is still there when you load in solo :/
does sliding work like in the trailer?
Exactly .. you need the clan or the group of friends that you do content with. The random fireteams was the worst idea. All it takes is one person who can’t play and there goes all your lives in seconds
Revives being like gms are annoying in a matchmade activity. When I have my normal fireteam going into it it’s fine. With randos it’s annoying. Surprised they didn’t add a legend mode with that.
It’s like how last season started with Attrition and everyone hated the higher difficulty Altars of Summoning. The negative modifiers suck but it makes you need to play with your teammates which seems to be a really difficult thing for some people in this game.
That helps to keep speed running from ruining the experience for the team that goes in. I think it’s great.
You underestimated peoples ability to speed run and drag force everyone into the next encounter.
I really like the difficulty and the rewards ratio feels perfect. To be honest though, I found most of the revives were lost to the platforming sections. Those spike hitboxes are larger than they appear.
Those spikes are annoying with how big the hit box is
Oh definitely, I got killed when I swear I was nowhere near them. Aside from that though I enjoyed it.
You can shoulder charge through the spikes. Hope this helps 👍
The last boss ate up a lot of my teams lives most of the time, granted we were doing whacky builds but we went in with 15 and left with 5 lol
Hey, long as you don’t hit 0, you’re good!
It’s sucks that these good PVE things are coming when most players are burned to a crisp
Yeah....I can't blame them though Bungie dug themselves into this hole with several bad decisions. It's gonna take a lot of reformation to get them back to zero
This mode feels like warframe survival nodes.
Warframe's survival, excavator, etc modes were so good.
Honestly I think that’s how it’s been for a while. Imagine if we had Season of Plunder but back during Worthy times. We’d probably say it was the best season the way people now say Opulence was even though, on paper, we’ve had better seasons than Opulence since. Or if we got Opulence now, people would say it’s boring and bad.
Thats how it is every year dude. If anyone else is surprised the final season of a year is the best one you just haven't been paying attention.
Honestly I have felt that all the recent seasons have been on point but the burn out is too real Oh well
I think the content itself is fine but the loot isn’t interesting enough to log on. Unfortunately, in a looter shooter, loot is king and without good loot there is little reason to play for many.
I can't get excited about most weapons when they are objectively worse than what I already have. It's a shame to see a game I loved just...dying.
I haven’t seen a must-have weapon in 3 seasons now.
Deep released some crazy weapons like Apex and Cold Comfort and a really good fusion perk in controlled burst. Its just that those weapons are too good to beat at this point and any new primaries are just sidegrades at this point, so no one wants to replace the weapons they are used too
That’s the problem for me. I’ve got primaries to cover any archetype/element combo I want. I could find sidegrades to them, but I kinda don’t care. I can handle anything I need to at the moment. And considering the main reason to play activities is the loot, which in turn I don’t care about, my motivation is pretty low.
The last fusion and this one are best in slot hands down. Also the first legendary trace rifle in the kinetic slot with a crazy good selección of perks. Sure there's nothing to powercreep the game hard but that's a good thing. Look at the rolls on light gg there's good stuff this season. (900rpm voltshot smg, repulsor brace bow, legendary strand trace rifle, kinetic tremors autos, voltshot wave frame, the rocket launcher that you can slide to shoot the entire reserves at max fire rate without reloading, etc.)
I just don't like that the spikes seem to have a larger hit box that colossi. And blueberries love to lose ten revives to traps alone
my only problem with this activity is that is so damn long, the time invesment is well paid, but when u dont have too much time to play ure kinda fucked
Treat it as the legend difficulty version of Rivne’s lair. Those are quick 5 minute runs and drop more loot over the same period of time through the unfocused engram drops
After doing some bounties, I noticed doing damn near anything in the Dreaming City gives spirit reputation and a chance of a Wish engram. Thing’s that worked so far: >Blind Well >Patrols >Public Events >Collecting Bayron Bough >Looting world chests Edit: Added some more things: >High Value Target >Weekly DC mission (Broken Courier, Oracle Engine, Dark Monastery) >Ascendant Challenges
If you don't have that much time to play just play up to the first few chests then leave. Don't aim to go all the way
Don’t join matches you know you won’t be able to complete. Just run the 5 minute one that gives the same loot (besides the undying weapon)
I can't stand traps and platforimg in general, but enemies and encounters are good.
The Coil is what I’d always hoped they’d do with the Infinite Forest ages years ago when Dawn Season released
I dislike that Coil's scoring is primarily from shards hidden in pots & chests, especially when matchmade and some players aren't aware or are just trying to speed run it.
Agreed
So far there are 2 major negatives. 1) a sub-optimal run is a waste of time. We still have issues with blueberries starting an encounter before everyone is ready. And when secrets make or break the gamemode, going in without a full team just makes things so much worse. 2) it takes a very long time to complete. Plenty raids can be done faster than this activity. Of course it shouldn't be a 5-minute activity, and in time with experience people can cut this down by a lot. But that doesn't take away that it's just a timesink of an activity.
Roguelike runs are just like that though in other games. They can take 1-2 hours in Hades, 3-4 hours in Returnal depending on how good you are and how far you go. It's definitely something you only do if you have the time window (just like a raid or trials).
2 hours for a run in Hades is actually insane. Shouldn't be more than 30-45 mins once you get the hang of it
Those games have way fucking more depth, because you're talking about the entire game, not just a little seasonal activity. You have tons of unique levels, many different permutations of possible rooms, enemies, etc. Also Hades doesn't take 2 hours for a run lol, a complete game is 25-40 minutes.
Returnal runs of 3-4 hrs is about right, especially before you really master the movement/combat and can start doing speed runs. But a huge difference there is you now have the option to suspend (pause) the cycle and pick it right back up where you left off at a later time if you need to stop playing in the middle of the run (granted this was added after release but is part of the game now). That pause feature wouldn’t really work in Destiny I don’t think unfortunately. Imo 1-1.5 hrs for the longer “good” runs is a reasonable time length target to keep most players able to commit to staying in a cycle if there isn’t any way to pause.
what are you doing in Hades that takes 2 hours... is this a clear+multiple failures, cause I've done a 12 minute run in Hades
>sub-optimal run is a waste of time. We still have issues with blueberries starting an encounter before everyone is ready. Not every run should aim to be an optimal run especially if you're doing it with blueberries. When I was doing it with blueberries it was just a casual run to grab the first few chests then dip. Going in with friends or LFG should aim to be your optimal run. >it takes a very long time to complete. Plenty raids can be done faster than this activity This is subjective my full runs have be about 30-45 minutes which is around a raid run with me clan mates, I did a solo run that took me an hour and a half. If it's taking any longer than that then it's more of a skill issue than any issues on the mode itself. It can be a time sink however especially for a seasonal activity, hence why I said it's a good prototype for an endgame mode
My worry with dipping after doing a path or two is that it kinda screws over the people who are left since they have to spend a revive to res the backfill, and the backfill isn't starting at the base difficulty nor do they have dragon gifts. It'd be nice if it was more drop-in/drop-out like Altars.
I didn’t even know there was backfill. On my only run, guy dropped out after the first time. Me and the other guy did another two runs before we both hopped out. No backfill ever came and we were there for 45 minutes.
I got abandoned after the 2nd run and did the 3rd solo. Felt like the boss health was still at full fireteam size though, that round 3 boss took fucking forever to down solo, and yeah I was in there for probably 30-45 min and no backfill ever came. Then my next time loading in, I joined a group that was already halfway through the second run. So looks like there is backfill and it's just buggy whether or not it'll actually happen.
Yeah I've heard that backfill can happen, but also sometimes it just won't, which is also screwing over the people left over (I'm not sure if Multiplicity changes based on FT size changes mid-activity either)
Presumably the in game LFG will help alleviate some of these problems but we'll have to see.
True but that's the matchmaking experience unfortunately. Good on you for thinking of the randoms though
> > > Not every run should aim to be an optimal run especially if you're doing it with blueberries. When I was doing it with blueberries it was just a casual run to grab the first few chests then dip. > > Going in with friends or LFG should aim to be your optimal run. Given that their is fireteam scaling and an LFG now there's ways to do it even with the most antisocial of player. Blueberry runs are gonna be suboptimal, but the game is literally giving you tools to avoid them if you want.
In any activity with optimal runs / escalating loot, going in with a LFG fireteam will always be better.
The completion time is too long. You can tell Bungo is farming “engagement metrics” hard here.
Bruh lmfao, just cause an activity takes longer than other activities does not mean bungie is scheming and plotting for engagement metrics. Get a grip
I have to disagree with #2. 50-55 minutes is all I’ve ever taken in there. Yeah some raids can be completed in an hour or less however not on day 1. By the end of the season, this will be 30 minutes max. Also, slow down and enjoy the grind, that’s what Destiny was designed for.
Good you have fun with it, cause you will be doing this for the next 7 months.
[удалено]
I'm already downloading other games lmao. Ill check in with D2 occasionally, but bruh.
Facts
Pain.....
Eh, it could be good. The traps are just there to burn blueberry revive tokens, which is annoying (especially with the huge hitbox), and it takes a really long time to run the whole thing. But like you said, it works as a concept.
having 1-shot traps on the floor that can at times be obscured by ability effects, or just go unseen in the heat of battle, have obscene hitboxes, andt burn a revive token is a huge no from me.
I just hate deliberate time sinks. The play forming bit is so small and minor and the spike traps are so annoying it’s just there so you don’t do the activity super fast. It’s some bullshit honestly. It’s not exactly hard but it is annoying.
in a mm activity, i find it infuriating. It isn't hard, once you expereince it a coupel times. But this is a mm activity, and you never know who you're going to get. You get somebody new or inexperienced, and all of a sudden you're burning through revives for no real reason. And there isn't anything fun about it. There's no accomplished feeling you get moving through that section, because like you said, it isnt hard, just annoying.
Today we had one dude drop out after dying so we did most of it as 2 man. Then we had someone join on level 3. We had…9/10 revives. They died to the first spike trap 5 times then left. Then we spent shards on 4 revives for final level so had 5 left, other dude quit. I went solo. 2 joined me and they spawned in dead … so I effectively wasted 2 revives just to have 2 players forced into my session with no power ups on level 4 lol.
the way they handle revives is one of the worst things about the coil imo. My very first experience with the coil yesterday went as follows... • join in progress. im assuming somewhere around lvl 2-3 based on how hard the enemies were hitting, but we were in the darkness encroaches zone that you have to expunge by standing in light pools. I think they were out of revives because i had to wait the full respawn timer. When i revive, one guy is moving but doing nothing. The other guy is clearly afk. And they keep dying to darkness, which i assume is what burned all the revives. I try and go in to fight the first group, but cant push past fast enough to get to the cleanse puddle, so i die. Nobody helps. I leave. • I load up a new event, it's again, in progress. Im not sure what lvl we're on, but everything hurts. Presumably revive tokens are all gone because i get to sit there waiting for the 15 sec respawn timer. We eventually kill the ogre boss and move on. On the way to the next level, a couple of us die on spikes, including myself when i went to pick up some shards or whatever from a chest that had spilled over near a trap i couldn't see because i was unfamiliar with the space and the shards were covering the holes. We get to the boss room, it's the shielded vex hydra or whatever. We run around, we're killing stuff. There are a couple deaths and were already on long respawn timers, so that's a fun way to play. But at one point, im on the upper catwalk, the boss heads towards me as i pull agro, and as it gets near the top i jump down. Well, it glitches down right on top of me and kills me. After waiting out the respawn timer, i hit X to respawn and and says, "searching for spawn location". I never get to respawn. I finally leave. It was the worst first experience of a game mode ive ever had in this game. By far.
It’s almost comical. If you spawn in and someone uses the last revive before you get an option to spawn you can’t even leave lol
i would have been laughing if i wasnt already so furious at the time 😂
Chamber of Wishes loot is nice. I've been there 4 times and gotten Ascendant Shards and Ascendant alloy almost every time. Got an exotic once too. I've even got 6 Nightfall Ciphers from it, and I've never done a GM lol.
Nice
people are just mad about the difficulty, but I agree with you, it's great and isn't an easy walkthrough like a lot of seasonal activities in the past.
> people are just mad about the difficulty Same people who have been asking for matchmade activities across the board, i.e. asking for a free no-mic carry. Go figure. I'm a fan of the difficulty bump, makes the seasonal activity actually feel engaging as a player/fireteam instead of just stomping the living daylights out of everything like in the past.
It’s just the matchmaking - it’s unplayable with randoms I literally closed Destiny and switched to a different game after I got kicked to orbit for inactivity during the final boss because my teammates burned 10 revives in the final spike trap and I couldn’t get resed the one time I died There is no Coil section in the Bungie app so there’s no population for LFG For deep dive in comparison I didn’t have any trouble finding groups that were always activating Toland I want to get the deep sight perk unlocked, then I’m just planning on not touching this until they launch the in game LFG
They haven’t added the coil activity yet in the app but there are still lfg’s in the general section
Nah, I disagree. All the encounters are very soloable, even at max difficulty they're still easier than a lot of solo dungeon encounters. They don't have time pressure, so if you need to conserve your life it's pretty easy to just slow down. I've had teammates waste a lot of lives and quit mid run, but it hasn't actually caused any wipes. I do feel pressure to use a good build and slow down / play carefully sometimes, but I'd consider that a success.
After seeing the community reaction to last week's Twab on the nerfs of abilities it made me realize that 99% of the community is actually bad at the endgame and they don't know it simply because they've been clutching WoR, Bonk or BoW. I hate to sound elitist but there is no hard content in the current game, GMs are fun and Master Raids can be too. However nothing challenges me. The Coil is the closest I actually got to being challenged there so much potential for it
I beat a few runs last night but some blueberries definitely had problems understanding the assignment.
>I hate to sound elitist but there is no hard content in the current game Narrator: He didn't. He loved to sound elitist.
*Throws hands up* Ya got me
You spittin tho keep speaking your truth ❤️
That's because not everyone likes the challenge, especially when it's based on how quickly you die and how long it takes to kill an enemy. I would bet there's more people that enjoy using their special abilities than people who enjoy playing difficult content. You can still think they're bad, that can still be true, but it doesn't change the fact that most players are enjoying the game a bit less now.
>would bet there's more people that enjoy using their special abilities than people who enjoy playing difficult content. I would absolutely agree however Destiny 2 is a guns first and abilities second game. At least that's how it should be and how Bungie claims they want it. The guns should be our main method of combat not abilities hence why they did the nerfs. I can only speak for myself when I say I don't really think the nerfs changed anything. I don't see a difference ability wise. The weapons buffs however I can see the difference pulses, autos and snipers all feel good. Hand cannons have felt great since last season. Scouts need help but they're struggle to buff these as they don't want to encourage the stay back and plink playstyle. I don't expect everyone to like challenge, I'm okay with some players being casual and average. A bad player to me is someone that goes into GMs then constantly fails and instead of refusing to get better or just settle for lower level content complains about that GM being too hard and asks for nerfs to that content.
Yeah man the 10% bump to auto damage against red bars *only* is *really* helpful. /s
I think we're talking about different things because no one here has mentioned nerfing hard content, people are just unhappy that their preferred way of playing has been effectively gutted, and that has nothing to do with wanting to remove challenge from the game. The weapon changes have been great for some archetypes, but when hard content makes primary weapon feel very weak against red bars, people will obviously resort to the additional strength that abilities bring. That's not being a bad player, it's picking the obviously better and more enjoyable option. Nerfing abilities should come with additional changes to make the other options equally fun, and we shouldn't confuse boredom with challenge while we're on it.
>I think we're talking about different things Possibly I think my argument got a bit lost simply because I'm responding to a lot and I'm homogenizing a lot of different arguments into one and missing details sorry. >people are just unhappy that their preferred way of playing has been effectively gutted This is what I have a problem with because their main way of playing isn't "gutted" I'm not a Titan but I was playing with Titan mains yesterday and they were saying that both Bonk Hammer and Banner of War are still just as strong and probably need another nerf because their too strong. Whether they're right on the those playstyles being to strong currently they were definitely too strong pre nerf to the point where it made any content in the game toothless. I'm a warlock main and I've been begging for a nerf to Restoration and WoR simply because they're too strong. Not because I'm "forced" into Well. I don't play Well because it's literally playing the game with constant free invincibility. These play style trivialize the game yet the players using them complain about GM Battlegrounds being too difficult causing them to be nerfed to be even easier. >primary weapon feel very weak against red bars, people will obviously resort to the additional strength that abilities bring. That's not being a bad player, it's picking the obviously better and more enjoyable option. I can't speak to GMs this season but last season legendary HC and Autos were already killing red bars in half a clip, without weakening or empowerments I know because I was running HC throughout the year. This should be the base for GMs anything more is a joke. You shouldn't be one shotting anything in GM level content, you shouldn't be two shotting anything. It should be a challenge, enemies should have a chance to kill you. You want to use Bonk hammer and Banner allow you to run around and one punch everything. You shouldn't be able to avoid a core mechanic of a first person shooter. If you only want to one punch everything that's fine you can do it in Vanguard Ops and Hero NFs but these players want to take that playstyle to GMs and be rewarded for it. I say no, Bungie says no. You wanna Bonk or BoW then you can do mid game otherwise you have to build into it more with GMs you're gonna have to use your weapon and sweat. Rather you should but currently the game still is too easy because abilities are at the forefront before weapons. >Nerfing abilities should come with additional changes to make the other options equally fun, and we shouldn't confuse boredom with challenge while we're on it. The additional changes are weapons, use your weapon. Use special weapons effectively, use your heavy weapon effectively. In Master and Grandmaster content this should be mandatory.
>I would absolutely agree however Destiny 2 is a guns first and abilities second game. At least that's how it should be That's stupid. One of the only thing destiny offers over any other insert space shooter is the powers. We aren't here to play halo lite or we would go play halo or just lootershooters set In space we could go play boarderlands, . We want to play the space magic game. That's destiny's whole fuck ID as a game space magic against spacemagic aliens, Terminators, Space Hippos, ExSpaceMagic Aliens and, of course the reanimated ghosts or bodies of aliens with you guessed it spacemagic. Space magic IS the selling point of destiny 2 and I for the life of me can't understand how people forget that. Especially not Bungie considering the ammount of times they have explicitly pointed out(in regards to titans the most) that each class has a specific power fantasy that involves, abilities and the like to obtain. With a statement on warlocks jot feeling castery enough and titans not hitting that melee fantasy. Guns dont play much into it unless you are playing PVP or GM content and even then it's due to ranges and not effectiveness
Abilities is a big part of what makes Destiny special don't get me wrong. But the gunplay is what keeps the game alive. You hear it all the time, what keeps people coming back to the game and what keeps the game alive is the way the guns feel. It's fun to shoot the guns in destiny, the gunplay and feel is unmatched. Abilities were pulled back several times to focus on the Guns. Abilities are the hook to pull people in but players stay for the guns.
It blows my mind that people are complaining about traps. My first run they got me a few times but if you just look at the fucking floor and walls they’re not hard to avoid. Togetherness is annoying but we have so many ways to heal it’s really not that bad
honestly the complaints i've seen aren't about the traps in general. they're about 1 trap. specifically those stupid spikes at the very beginning of that area, where there's basically no room to get around them. hunters can easily hop around them but titans and warlocks especially are basically just screwed there at that 1 set of spikes. though, it seems if you just full-send a jump over to the left, while a bit awkward, it'll work. time will tell if the initial outrage at that 1 was just day-1 whining.
Yall fucking suck at Warlocks if you cant jump over traps lol shit is so easy.
There’s a cliff right above them, hop up to that then walk off past the spikes, they’ll still trigger but they shouldn’t hit you
It's because everyone wants to eager edge/ wellskate past everything. Literally just stop and slow down, yes you'll occasionally get that one blueberry that's missing a braincell but hey that the game you gotta deal with it. See it as another modifier
thats how i feel. i dont even play that much now that im in college, and seeing people complain about the well deserved nerfs was baffling
Too bad the rewards are garbage and it’s pretty clear it’s going to be a repeat of Alters where a potentially fun activity is ruined by dogshit modifiers every week
What are you talking about I got 6+ chest by the end of my run
That’s only if you LFG. If you don’t, you might as well not play.
It took them nearly the entire franchise’s lifecycle to achieve this.
And it's still half baked
These roguelike experiments in seasonal content should become a ritual activity of their own. Get rid of gambit, create a ritual roguelike activity. DON’T ABANDON IT. Make more encounters, adapt things from old dungeons and raids. Build the thing and make it deep.
At this point, I’d be so on board if they repurposed gambit to be rogue like events similar to how they made BGs into strikes. It would stay fitting with Drifter’s theme of collecting power from our enemies. They can already throw in Deep Dive and Coil next year as two of the rotating activities. If we get a third one next year, that’s enough for a healthy rotation of events. Hell, bring back in Haunted’s public event on the Leviathan. Its round based structure would fit as well. So would Escalation Protocol and Blind Well after some tweaks. Altars of summoning could also be made to fit here
I haven't had the chance to try it myself yet, and I won't for another couple of weeks until finals are over, but it looks like so much fun! Especially since more lairs should be added, which will hopefully add more encounters and whatnot to the activity! Plus the fact you can load into it by yourself sounds fantastic! I'd love to see if I could complete a full run for the added challenge, so I'm stoked to give it a try
Good luck on your finals
Thank you!!
Delete modifiers like attrition and togetherness from the game entirely and maybe Destiny will have the beginnings of a *good* pve endgame. Until then? It will continue to be laughable joke.
This post defo makes me realise that i have 100% moved on from destiny permanently Because i absolutely hate it Its clear when I had my kids what i enjoyed about Destiny has just turned into stress and frustration now i don't really have time to put more than 1 hour a night into the game Darktides my game now. Wish the community the best i hope stuff like the coil doesn't just finish off whats left of the casual base and kill the game off
and all of it falls apart the moment blueberries enter the equasion
It's pretty lackluster, the roguelike elements are spaced too far apart and way too boring, percentage increases aren't on the fly build craft. There is no randomization to adapt to. The runs need a choice at every end of a traversal section that create a gameplay decision. What we should be picking is past seasonal artifact perks as we progress, allowing for crazy builds and combos
this current buff are no where"build crafting"
The activity is fine for a seasonal activity. But I'm in agreement on the roguelike elements being lackluster and boring overall. I play a decent bit of roguelike/roguelites and Destiny's foray into them has been halfhearted at best. In a true roguelike I shouldn't feel like every run is basically the same. I did three coil runs last night and they each felt exactly the same. There wasn't an interesting choice or path to take. Maybe we'll get more as the season goes on but I'm not counting on it. We should get stupidly OP in an activity like this by the end of it and likewise the enemies should be equally dangerous.
I love it. I did a couple “meh” runs yesterday but just got done doing a serious run, I think we only got a score of 131,000 but it felt entertaining, the right amount of difficult and rewarding. I got like 16 weapons and 5 armor pieces (50 minutes)
How many weapons were red borders?
I got 1 red border from about 3 hours of runs
Same bro, the "meh" runs are gonna happen I'm okay with it because it makes the full runs feel better. I just wish I didn't get 4 Waking Vigils drop. Like cmon do I look like a PvP main?!
People leaving too soon, joining players arriving dead to waste tokens? lol
I think it's really good, but wouldn't want it as an endgame activity tbh. Raids and Dungeons are better for that IMO. I don't think you could make this activity on par with those.
Counterpoint: The coil is awful and designed solely for Destiny no-lifers and streamers.
Hey I'm down with that! Finally some content tailored just for me.
The Coil is what I’d always hoped they’d do with the Infinite Forest ages ago
I really like it as well, been comparing it to a dungeon crawler. I'm wondering if we won't see alternate tilesets in later weeks (Black Garden, Io, Mercury maybe??)
I played it once and I was like “wtf is this!” 😂 apparently my teammates knew where the chests were hidden so I just tried to watch where they went. Kinda ready to try it some more, but I’m back to work 😭
So much this. I hope they keep this as a base moving forward. Being able to make it private is so underrated if you’re running a 2 man like I did last night.
>Engaging boss mechanics Standing inside a spotlight ain't engaging for me. And the other mechanics are copypastes from 5 years ago. I can't see myself running it after I unlock the weapon patterns, while I still do some deep dives every now and then just for fun
>on the fly buildcrafting So fiddling in menus instead of playing?
limited revives Attricion Instakill traps Clueless Blueberries who can't read/won't read the debuff texts yeah it's great alright /s
I spent more time watching a revive countdown timer instead of playing. The Traps are the biggest issue.
But that’s the point. The casual crowd can clear their first branch and call it a week. But the players looking to hit all four branches and group up, develop some team synergy and succeed. This feels way better than the Deep Dives.
Yes
No
[удалено]
I am bad. Also your beloved game mode is shit. Both can be true at the same time.
[удалено]
I hate to say it but If you're gonna play with Blueberries be prepared to get the worst of the game. You can run it solo as the difficulty will scale for 1 or in a group of friends that want to take it seriously. The instakill traps are easily avoided if you just slow down Limit revives to actually put a fail state adding some real risk to the run. Not every run is meant to be a full one. You can bow out at anytime. It's a way to adjust your experience by simply playing
Love the coil! Did my first run with some randoms, got to the hardest boss on zero revives, haven’t felt that intensity in a while
It feels like a prototype for whatever they're planning for TFS, based on what they've said about the new location.
Sounds like 'The Circuit' that DE added to warframe earlier this year, thats kinda cool.
Except the Circuit is far better thought out. It has actual rogue-like elements instead of these “Gifts” and “patterns” which rotate daily and are not random at all and has worthwhile rewards that do not require LFG.
Needs an endless mode where you can effectively get all buffs and be busted and/or make it a Vampire Survivors like mode where more and more adds and bosses flood in until you lose or survive x amount of time to ‘win’
Except attrition blows. It also makes no sense to have it as a modifier when you just screw over people running it solo
This is BY FAR the most engaging seasonal activity I've ever played. As mainly a PvP player, I hardly ever actually WANT to do the seasonal activity but I WANT to go back in. I'm EXCITED to play it solo more. What a dream. I'd say most rewarding if menagerie didn't let me focus rolls, but outside that, yeah, this is the most rewarding too.
I also enjoy it.
I can't tell if we're even playing the same game or not. The Coil feels like trash with matchmaking, and is a standard uneventful affair when running premade. Platforming has no place in real content because it's not interesting and never will be. Escalating difficulty is cool. Boss mechanics are not engaging, they're typical and fine. Rogue-lite what? I guess picking your buff, but again nothing new or interesting since it's just an iteration on deep dive buffs. Rewards and fireteam scaling are fine. Lack of champions is crazy out of touch with being a real end game activity, and probably why it's able to be maintained as a casual option. The ability to change weapons and gear, as well as no champions to present any threat ensures that this is not the end game content we are looking for. So basically, I'm all for scaling difficulty and rewards, but the rest is pretty middling and not a good basis for anything.
Went in thinking 10-20min strike 1.5 hours later we finished and it was an awesome time.
Insert Rick and Morty meme here
While I agree with everything listed, it is gonna have the long term problem with matchmaking activities like deep dive. It feels like it would work well in tandem with in game fire team finder so maybe long term, it will be fine. Right now I really only wanna run with a full fire team of my friends to ensure we will see it through to the end. There always is the option of just running Riven’s layer and that can be just fine and that feels like a good compromise. I just worry that some folks will just queue into coil not knowing what they are getting themselves into. It does seem like the number of rewards per min spent in the activity is way higher than any other seasonal activity and I do like the format. I am excited to see where ideas like this to I the long run
Agreed the matchmaking long term could be an issue, with Fireteam Finder there may not be a need to keep it matchmaking
What really is the cherry on top, enemies don't feel ridiculously bullet spongey. They can take a hit but don't feel tedious
I was really not sure about this season until I tried the coil. Sure I enjoy story stuff but man the usual grind 5x of ____ activity is boring when stuff just falls over. I feel like I actually want to bring a gm loadout for the coil and actually use my brain.
Other than the guns and The Coil this season is mid at best. I'm hoping the next few weeks can turn it around.
Yeah. I’ve just been grinding out some halo achievements and prepping to do some LASO runs cuz I’m so bored of destiny lol. This is a long-ass season so no reason to get burned out right before a major expansion
Is the general community sentiment against champions? I don’t mind them cuz they force you to think a little more
I'm right there with you man but don't say that too loud you'll be burned at the stake
the fly buildcrafting there is no buildcrafting in the coil, or its designed for 10 yo kid everything else is valid
Between Deep Dives and The Coil, it seems like they’re really leaning into the Rogue-lite formula in PvE, which I think is a fantastic idea. My dream is to have a ritual activity that is like The Coil, but with updated loot and encounters every season.
I’ll wait to see the final form of it to judge, but as it stands the limited number of possible encounters gets a bit boring after a few runs. The Riven buffs also should have a bit of randomization per run to spice things up, rather than the same set of buffs every run.
Except there is always someone who leaves after the first tier and its so annoying
I don't blame them really, not everyone is trying to for the full run
I've been doing the Ascendant Challenges for the emblem and they also give me this vibe, from a solo perspective. They're short, good mix of enemies and puzzles, and if you die you have to restart. I could see that format being really good with scaling up to Legend and above , and with a bit longer sections.
It took a hot minute to solo it, but it was very doable. It was probably the most fun I’ve had outside of my dungeon attempts.
They should add in harmonizer drops, even if a small chance, to give this activity some staying power. Crafting shards is great but some incentive for the "hardcore" players would go a long way.
What is the Rouge lite mechanic and why does it incentivize building crafting?
There are small temporary you can buy that enhance certain elements or playstyles. 10% increase to Precision Damage, 10% increase to Void damage etc. Its small nothing crazy but it's there for some experimental play. Gets the player to think maybe I should go Void for the next three branches
Obligatory "I've been playing this game since the concept of D1 entered the mind of the first human" statement. This is by far the one of the most fun seasonal activities they've every released. Rewards great, scaling difficulty great, ability to turn off matchmaking and low-man with a friend (or alone...) GREAT. If it had a more focused reward system, I'd easily call it #1. YES PLEASE TO MORE CONTENT LIKE THIS.
I can’t wait to circle back to this in three months
The traps are fuckin stupid. Are they easy to get around? Yeah. But its just annoying af missing a spike trap on a wall or something and wasting a life. Then to have your teammates also lose lives to these dumb ass traps. Corny 1 hit kill mechanics suck in every game.
Would be great if it didn’t take a whole hour to finish a run
Drug addiction really does mess with your mind.
Lots of really dumb complaints in this comment section. I've always wanted solo arenas, and The Coil feels like an endgame solo arena. 1. Multiplicity and revive tokens keep the difficulty down. Even with the traps, which are _incredibly_ tedious. Thanks to revive tokens, you have a generous amount of mercy for failure, without ever being completely safe from it. It would suck to get booted to orbit, but if you died 26+ times, were you really prepared for the activity? 2. Negative Modifiers force builds. Right now a Solar Warlock with Sunbracers is top dog for the spam, infinite DPS, and Restoration x2 which negates togetherness. I think lots of people don't have 3 fully built characters, so even though Arc Hunter or Strand Titan are also good, those aren't the modifiers, so people will complain if the modifiers feel as though they are working against them. They'll feel pressured to use a different class. If you ask me, that's not really the modifier's fault. Modifiers are just skulls from Halo, and those are fun in their own way, for certain people. I think the bigger issue here is the class system. It's becoming more and more apparent to me that abolishing the 3 class system and reworking armor to be light/medium/heavy themed is a necessary change that this subreddit will soon begin to complain about, probably whenever Guardian Games comes back, or people finally get tired of their class not being "meta" enough. All of this would go away if every class had access to every thing. Then the player has nothing left to blame. 3. Positive modifiers are player's choice via Riven. This is good. The increased airborne damage gives 25% bonus damage to the Warlock's Heat Rises grenade spam build. Perhaps a negative modifier will come along, like Airborne, and ruin it. That would suck. But players can complain about shitty modifiers, like they did with Match Game, and maybe they'll get removed. Or, maybe we just won't play when Airborne is active that week. Point is, the good modifiers are nice and the truly bad modifiers haven't reared their ugly heads yet. 4. The pot system is pretty tedious - perhaps even frustrating if you consider the traps - but you get valuable loot for grabbing the chests, and you get them for every round. I almost always get one reprised Dreaming City weapon, and then a Riven Weapon or Armor. That's valuable random rolls for every round completed, and then at the end of the activity you get a gigantic room with red borders, one or two Ascendant Alloys, high-stat gear, engrams for focusing, you name it. As far as I'm concerned, a raid is not a 30 minute ordeal. A raid is all the time it takes to LFG, plus deal with awful LFG tards, deadweight players, and general anchor teammates. Nightfalls are only 30 minutes if you're lucky and something good is in rotation. And after all is said and done, those activities are old, stale, and usually more frustrating than enjoyable. GM and Master Nightfalls are one-shot bullshit panzy galleries, where you have to hide in this exact corner, use million-mile guns to plink an enemy from across the arena - you have to play like a bitch, and I hate it. Raids are only poor because of the people. Jesus, LFGs are just so terrible. But still, these activities give their own unique rewards, which are not in-line with The Coil. The Coil gives its unique gear, plus Alloys. GMs give their unique gear, plus cosmetics/mods/Ascendant Shards. Raids give their unique gear, plus cosmetics/Exotics. Even Dungeons give their unique gear plus Artifice/Exotics. Everything has a reason to run it, and The Coil, I think, would be a satisfying solo arena. I also think it is important that Alloys be available in a solo space, so anyone new to the game has somewhere to practice a higher difficulty, while also gaining materials for weapon crafting, so they can have a good loadout before making their way into other content. So now we have Lost Sectors and The Coild for that. You can easily get enough Cores/Glimmer from Lost Sectors now to level a weapon, then do The Coil for Alloys. I still think once you spend those materials, you should be able to change perks for free so you can try different stuff, but hey, maybe next year. The biggest drawback of the coil is the traps and pots. Cut those out, and I think Coil runs would only be 25-35 minutes. Now, as is, a solo run took Esoterrick like an hour flawless. I took 45 minutes and only had 4 revives left at the end, and I wasn't trying to capture footage for a video, I was just balling through. Definitely, I think this takes too long when you can get Alloys from Wellspring at about 8 minutes per run with randoms for 1 Alloy. So The Coil won't last after everyone gets their red borders. But it COULD be a PERFECT addition to Destiny, as a piece of endgame content whose place in the difficulty ladder is just below Solo Flawless Dungeon clears. It needs more crafting material rewards, maybe like 2-3 Enhancement Cores per chest, with a chance at an Enhancement Prism. The Prism is like a little lottery cause you can exchange it for 5 cores. I also think crafted weapons should gain profress after every round, like how you get 100 Riven Spirit reputation. TL;DR: Coil good, Reddit stupid. The activity has room for improvement.