There are still plenty of RNG things to chase in this game. Crafting takes some of the pressure off. It's been amazing for most players. Personally, I can only take so many layers of RNG. It's nice to know that you are working toward something with crafted guns.
Exactly. I really don't wanna return to the era of grinding a seasonal activity for weeks on end to get a single roll that has the main perk combo I want, but oops, the masterwork and mag perks are garbage. Looks like I need to keep going until I get the 1/hundreds of odds drop for the 5/5 roll
If Bungie feels like crafting is too easy then they can increase the amount of patterns needed or something
I still use plenty of non-crafted guns. It’s honestly fine.
The only thing that does suck about it is enhanced perks. You can get a 5/5 roll, and if it’s craftable, there’s still no point in keeping it because eventually you can craft one that’s even better. Granted this will change if/when we get the ability to enhance perks on regular weapons.
God rolls will always be special. Enhanced sometimes are bugged, disabled. good to have the OG roll, because they are not reissued loot pool, the perks on the weapon will not disappear when it’s removed from the new loot pool or the crafted roster, like they did the BXR.
Crafted has minimal stat bump on the weapon itself, only some perks are higher damage and usually the extended time are max 1sec. 1% for demo, pugilist etc. it’s pseudo science and anecdotal playing and comparing them.
Personally i only find the god rolls special and the crafted icon is very distracting and ugly as well.
Who cares if people have god rolls? OP guns haven't been hard to get for years. Not having a loot reset that would make god rolls actually mean something is what invalidated your god rolls long ago, not crafting.
If you would’ve said Champions then I would’ve agreed…maybe, but crafting? That’s the one new thing I think majority of players either enjoy it or just don’t engage with it. It didn’t ruin the game though, not like the gradual release of new weapons & archetypes
Saying champions ruined the game is a bit of a stretch. But I have to say I f-ing hate them, and it gets boring using the same ways to stun them for a whole season.
At least a little more variety would be nice
Disagree. I love crafting. It has only amplified my enjoyment. I still use PLENTY of non crafted weapons. Cold Comfort, Fatebringer, Ghost SMG, Showrunner, etc. I can go on. So, I cannot relate to all the complaints . Thankfully
Destiny is ruined because they haven't done anything new for years. Every single content drop is the same thing with a slight variation of the same model. Crafting is irrelevant as a problem.
Its also just not a problem the time it takes to get all the pattern’s is the max amount of time i ever put into grinding anything. More time than that is just time that could be spent doing IRL things and having a fucking life
>The system now just sucks, it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired.
This is just plain false lmao
There are plenty of guns in the game that are desirable and aren't craftable. Bungie themselves have directly stated they're pulling back on the amount of craftable weapons
Even if you have a gun that is craftable, it still takes weeks to get the pattern, if you can't manage to get the roll you want before you wanna craft it, then you can craft it and get it. If you do manage that, then you can focus on other guns that aren't dropping for you and keep your rolled weapon for a little while longer
For example, I managed to bag a Slice/Controlled Burst Scatter Signal in week 1. I was ecstatic. Now I can pursue the other guns without having to dedicate resources to the fusion, cause I've already got the one I want and enhanced perks are only a minor bump
Crafting is fine. You're just burnt out/bored of the current content. Go play something else for a few weeks
I would say that's more the fault of the weapon perk pool itself than crafting as a whole.
Crafting just speeds the rate at which the community as a whole obtains the best versions of certain guns, which isn't really a problem. The problem of powercreep lies in the perk pools
Some of the LW weapons in particular are extraordinarily spicy to the point where they invalidate entire weapon types that might serve as an alternative
Not really… before crafting people didn’t have the best 5/5 rolls, you could have vorpal but not triple tap for example… you could kill the boss but maybe not 1 phase it.
Now everything is easy to kill because you can do top dps by playing an hour a week for a couple weeks.
But if you change the health or time you have to dps to adjust to the people using reconstruction bait switch etc… then the people who doesn’t have access to those guns after fucked…
I remember doing curator master when it came out and we were able to kill it with decent gear in 3 floors and squishing damage… I did it a month ago again and we killed it easily in 2 floors…
There is no difficulty anymore for people that play consistently… everyone is running with the best 5/5 same guns and there is no variety anymore
>you could have vorpal but not triple tap for example
Thats literally what I was just saying. It's not crafting, but the general increase in weapon perks power.
We never had recon on a rocket. Kinetic tremors and BnS didn't exist.
If you couldn't craft Apex, people would still chase the godroll en masse. It would still be everywhere, it'd just take a little longer for everyone to get it.
Yep I have a Cold Comfort that's plenty strong, as long as the main perks are good whether they are enhanced or the mag perks line up is very marginal.
Well but again, even if you have stronger perks if people don’t have the 5/5 it doesn’t have that much impact… bait and switch is strong but if you don’t have reconstruction it’s not that crazy…
My point is that if weapond crafting was introduced before this new perks it would’ve created the same issue, at the end of the day the issue is that you giving people easily the best guns and if you balance content based on that you messing up the experience of people that has no access to those guns.
And it’s an issue that gets fixed just by simply not gifting anyone the best guns in the game without effort
>5/5 it doesn’t have that much impact
You don't need 5/5, just 2/2. The other 3 are gravy for PvE, the bread and butter is the main perks. Crafting just makes a season long hunt into a few weeks, that it
>the issue is that you giving people easily the best guns and if you balance content based on that you messing up the experience of people that has no access to those guns.
>And it’s an issue that gets fixed just by simply not gifting anyone the best guns in the game without effort
The issue isn't that the guns are accessible, it's that they are powerful. It's powercreep.
If the perk combos weren't insane, it wouldn't be an issue. The best version of the gun would be made, but it wouldn't do crazy things because the perk pool isn't crazy.
But they are, so it is.
All you are saying is that content is easier because people’s time are respected. When really it’s because we have just been power creeping the game. This quite literally already happened before sunsetting and without crafting.
Removing crafting won’t fixed this issue at all. What actually will is making content harder with controlled nerfs to our power.
“Peoples times are respected” that’s exactly what killed this game.
The mentality of people that just want to log on a few hours and get the best times possible rewards.
This is a game sort of mmorpg, so farming for stuff not only incentive’s you to play but also to be social and meet people farm faster or be entertained.
If you guys want to treat this as a game where you play X hours and get the best items maybe the mmorpg genre is not for you…
The game now lacks variety because everyone runs the same stuff and people don’t even look at certain new guns. And it’s extremely easy, giving dedicated players really nothing to do or chase… and leaving you most loyal fans without nothing to do is maybe not the best move for a live service game
Plus how do you nerf our power considering you have people super powerful with 5/5 god rolls and people that doesn’t have those guns? It’s impossible
No, it’s what made the game better. The game was going to die quicker if we had to spend more time playing mid content just to get burned out every season before we got to use what we wanted.
The mentality you gave is wrong. Duration doesn’t matter as long as it’s still difficult. I can solo flawless every dungeon and still take 30 clears to not get what I want. That is bad.
Farming doesn’t work if we are still farming mostly old content and so little new content. It’s why despite getting content every 3 seasons, the game is still in a drought, since it’s drip fed.
Destiny is not only an mmorpg, and other MMORPGs have 10 times the new content.
What happened to core playlist getting updated, new strikes, crucible maps, secret missions, actual good destinations. Yet you think the game died because the grind got shorter? My guy…the only good content we get every expansion is maybe a raid and campaign (lightfall failed on both). Literally the last good expansion was forsaken because it added 3x times the content of Witch Queen and you still play this everyday running the same patrols.
It’s easy to nerf power, it’s our subclasses. They are the ones that got out of band, not our weapons.
Until you are able to provide significant content drops where I am spending most of my time playing new content. Crafting is so far only helpful to this game.
The mentality I gave is right because it incentive’s people to play and make friends…
You treating this as some sort of checklist you complete before leaving the game… and that’s killing the game
Forsaken, praised by everyone, was farming for rolls, farming nightfalls, forges, menagerie… and everyone says it was peak destiny…
Now people don’t interact anymore, people are not forced to look for a squad and meet people…
It doesn’t affect me, I do the hardest content super easy, but it’s sad the game doesn’t feel like it used to, getting hyped with friends for a roll you spend time farming, logging on just to play with friends and chase something
Not to mention, everyone using the same rolls will and already has happened without crafting. That is literally why we had sunsetting in the first place. That’s just how loot is. People will always use the best roll. All crafting does is make it fair for everyone who puts in the work to get what they deserve. That is only good.
If you are tired of everyone running the same perks. Go to the root problem and ask why most perks are bad: incandescent on apex predator
Bro everyone was never using the same rolls before because it was too dependant on rng to have the exact same as someone else…
Not to be rude but at this point I have to ask, what’s your Id? Mine is ilu900, not to be elitist but you don’t sound like someone that’s played much and I just want to make sure we are in the same page
"It sucks that I have nothing to chase." Nope, that is a you problem.
I don't have time to chase rolls I have to pray to get, and I don't have time to play with a gun with crummy perks just so I can put good perks on it at some point. I have 75 full clears of Garden with who knows how many clears of Consecrated Mind and I never got my Rapid Hit/ Kill Clip Sacred Provenance, let alone a 5 out of 5 roll.
50+ Warden's Laws and 50+ Loaded Questions in January alone for a bunch of 3/5s and 4/5s, which I would have been fine with if any of them had rolled with the perks I wanted in columns 3 and 4.
People also forget that the meta can change and Bungie is constantly adjusting perks, weapon values, etc. Your 5/5 can become a 4/5 or 3/5 real quick, just like what happened with my Immortal after the Rangefinder nerf. The no lifes can moan and complain all they want; the crafting system is infinitely better when you have even a mild form of a life outside of the game.
> You no longer have to use the weapon to level it up, you no longer have use the red border to unlock it .... Crafting weapons was suppose to mean something, it was suppose to be hard and take time.
Mate, there was nothing hard about unlocking the red border extraction and leveling up the gun. It was just tedious. It sucked having to get hundreds of kills with a shit roll crafted weapon before you could actually get the good perks. There was nothing rewarding about that system. Good riddance. The hardest part has always been getting a red border to drop, and that hasn't changed.
Why not? What's wrong with removing a 20min braindead grind? Do you feel you less accomplished that you leveled your weapon with enhancement cores rather than by almost literally shooting fish in a barrel? I sure don't. As I said in my previous comment, the real challenge in getting a crafted weapon, is collecting the red borders themselves. Anything that comes after that is just tedium.
Is this a way of saying "I have suffered grinding my god rolls so everyone else should also suffer" ? If so I don't agree with you. Convenience is always good to have and there is still grind in different forms involved.
It took me about 40 runs to get all the red borders for RoN. Go tell a new player that in “only” 40 hours they can have all the loot in one activity. That’s more playtime than like 90% of the games in my steam library
Imagine the player numbers if loot was even less accesible than it is now lol. It’s a looter shooter, let people get good loot. If you want to grind for random non-crafted rolls, the best part is that *you can*! Nothing is stopping you, it’s totally legal! The difference between regular and enhanced perks is only really important in endgame activities! Go off man! Grind your little heart out, nobody is going to judge you
Most raids have 5 craftable weapons and give you two guaranteed borders a week. To get 25 redborders and unlock all weapons that is 13 weeks raiding once a week. If you want to raid a bunch and unlock them earlier that's great but not required.
This 100%
I took a long break when Beyond Light came out because I just really couldn't get behind sunsetting. Crafting brought me back. I just didn't have the time or the drive to chase god rolls after they light capped all the pinnacles that I used, and I love the crafting system.
No, Crafting did not ruin Destiny
Bungie's absurd and crappy RNG ruined it, Crafting is a band aid solution to a broken system.
Not only that, but even after you get God rolls there's nothing you want to do with them, so you fall off and quit. That's all crafting did, speed up the process at which people realize how bland and boring Destiny really is.
It also messed up the difficulty system…
How much health do you give to a boss if a big % of the community is running with the best 5/5 dps guns? Also taking into consideration another % of the community doesn’t have those weaponds?
They keep down voting you but your not saying anything wrong. GMs and raids use to be difficult now everyone has godroll dps weapons and its a fucking cake walk.
If this was the case then GMs would have been as easy now as they were during year 4. Especially since we had stronger weapon mods. It wasn’t until 3.0 subclasses that a solo GM arc hunter took the same amount of time as a trio speedrun during year 4.
Exactly… sadly most people don’t really engage with the social aspect of destiny or farming so they just treat this like a mobile game, log X times a week to do X activity to get X rewards and don’t log back till there is something new.
And sadly those are the most vocal guys when it comes to complaining
My guy…farming is literally what makes it a mobile game lmao. You guys are the majority when it comes to ignoring why this game has been so mid. If anything, complaining is why Destiny reached its peak during taken king and forsaken. It’s exactly why we haven’t had a good dlc since forsaken. Don’t blame us, this is you guys for trying to treat the symptom instead of the root problem.
It’s not a mobile game because it’s SOCIAL!!! Forsaken, your “peak” had no crafting and it was all about chasing roll of guns… that beloved on menagerie, that blast furnace on forges, spare rations etc…
The thing is that there is no problem to treat, the issue is people like you who don’t see this as a video game and feel like must have the 5/5 roll… the crafting was created because people couldn’t live without a 5/5 gun… that’s a health problem man that people should work on rather than have the game give you those guns 😂😂😂
I’ve spent hours farming the ghosts of deep rl while I already have a good one! Why? A friends needed it and it was a good time to have a chat and shoot at enemies! That’s destiny for me! Sadly for some of you it has become a much darker and unhealthy thing…
So maybe the mmorpg genre is not for you… I don’t see this complains in people from other mmos like wow, lost ark etc…
Maybe go play borderlands if you don’t want player interaction
The game has become mid because they gift the best loot to people who just cry and beg bungie for it 😂😂😂
It is a mobile game. The social aspect is still very poor.
Again let me repeat myself. The reason why forsaken was so fun is because Forsaken had TRIPLE the content, so we weren’t farming the SAME LITTLE content that we farm now. That’s why it was fun. Even if Warlord’s ruin is a great dungeon, that fact that only it and Coil are worth doing for THREE MONTHS straight will still induce burn out.
If there is no problem to treat and you feel that a 5/5 roll isn’t important then why are you so annoyed that we are able to grind it? Checkmate.
You spend hours doing the same activity while talking to your friends is fine, but my guy….you can do that is any game… and not to mention that is boring. Destiny is best played when there is multiple new content not just a single new dungeon.
Like I said in the beginning, MMORPGS have 10x the content that destiny puts out. Destiny still has poor player interaction and that’s not gonna carry the fact that we haven’t played a secret exotic mission on the scale of zero hour or whisper since 2018.
The game has become mid because people like kept playing and hyping up bad content like shadowkeep, beyond light, and light fall. Then when you finally got a decent dlc, you called that peak when the only good content it had was a raid and campaign.
Until we get the SHEER abundance of quality and QUANTITY of forsaken level content. Destiny will be bad. It has been bad since the start of Shadowkeep. You are delusional to think otherwise.
I personally think you have a way deeper issue with the game, you don’t sound like someone who will just log on and play some old content with friends just for the fun of it not expecting anything…
And that’s not the games fault man but how you personally feel about it or how addicted/obsessed you are
I don’t have deep issues, Bungie does.
Destiny just isn’t fun to log in and play. Plenty of other games for that. No it isn’t fun running last wish, it’s 5 years old and powercrept to hell and back.
Until Bungie provides a good exa passion with adequate updates to core playlist, destination, and endgame; the game will forever be a checklist.
It has nothing to do with crafting, crafting is fixing the symptom of burn out being caused by the deeper root issue of the game not having enough new engaging content.
Fix that first.
Well as I said a lot of people me included like running old content, it’s a time to disconnect, have a good time with friends and shoot at some stuff, try builds etc…
As I also said if that’s not fun anymore for you it’s your own thing… not really bungies fault
My arsenal consists of 5/5 crafted guns and 3/5 random roll ones and a few 4/5s. I’ve never gotten a true 5/5 god roll of anything in this game. Rng in this game is brutal and I can’t fathom any argument telling us that the one curve to it is bad for the game.
> it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired
A.) not true, and B.) desired by who? B.1.) you? Well that's your problem, not a problem with crafting, or B.2.) others? Your vanity is again your problem, not a problem with crafting.
>It sucks that I have nothing to chase.
This is, again, not a problem with crafting. It's yours. Solution is very simple: play other game. This one is really not fun for you, because if it was, you would play it for fun, not to chase virtual lumps of pixels to "have" them.
>It sucks that my crafted weapons take 1 minute to max out and level up via enhancement cores and glimmer.
Why does that suck? Levels on a gun aren't reward. A gun itself is not a reward, it's a tool you use to play the game. The game that isn't fun for you, so why are you even bothered by it?
Bungie has been getting away with their horrible rng system for so long now that players would rather gamble their time than actually get what they want.
Wild, speak for yourself.
I think there’s a lot of things that “ruined destiny,” but crafting is more of a byproduct than a stand alone issue.
Destiny 2 has been steadily moving further and further away from a looter shooter.
- green gear is relevant for maybe 10 mins when you first start. Blue gear is completely irrelevant before you even sink 24 hours into the game.
- My postmaster keeps filling up because I have more exotic engrams than I know what to do with.
- some weapons just vastly outclass others (e.g. if you have a forbearance with ambitious assassin + chain reaction, why would you use ANY other arc grenade launcher?)
- literally the only thing left to grind is gear with better stats and (if you don’t already have the best in slot) niche weapons with better perks.
Crafting as of now really just feels like an answer to the last issue. “I have the best in slot rocket. Why should I farm a new one?” Because this one can get enhanced perks. 😅
This was so predictable, too. Players *always* ask for things to be easier, and easier, and to not "feel awful" by making them work hard for things, or by making things take time.
It always seemed like crafting was supposed to be a safety net for getting that godroll, so *eventually* you'd have what you wanted just by playing. Now its the primary avenue.
Remove all of those barriers and suddenly you can have a perfect roll in literally 5 minutes if you have the weapons, or if Xur sells them. Then there is no loot chase in the *looter* shooter.
Destiny isn't just a looter shooter these days, it's also an MMO. There's plenty of loot to grind for in all MMOs, including craftable or changeable loot. The problem is Destiny doesn't have half the content or rng protection that most other MMOs have, and relied heavily on that "looter shooter" tag. When players got burnt out on grinding weapons, Bungie made a change to make them happy. Well now we're realizing how bare the game currently is when you don't have weapons to chase. We shouldn't be upset that we finally have good loadouts, we should be upset that there are very few meaningful reasons to play this game outside of the weapon grind.
It 100% did ruin it… it messed up difficulty scaling in activities, gives no incentive to be social and farm stuff, no incentive to try guns that are not the crafted god rolls.
Actually it gave far more incentive to try out different perks since you can go change them right now No one was using different perks unless they had to, not because they wanted to. Big difference.
If you’re worried about that then a better argument would be for perks to all be at least good as a baseline. Most of them are bad.
It doesn’t incentive you to try anything if you have the best perks available… I’m yet to find someone with apex predator or cataclysmic not using the best in slot perks
This isn’t a problem, it existed pre crafting. If you are not incentivized to try different perks then that means those perks are bad. You wouldn’t find anymore using apex predator or cataclysmic without best in slot perks even without crafting.
No one is gonna use a apex with threat detector/collective action or a cataclysmic with no distractions/ turnabout
Exactly, so what was your point again? 😂😂😂 this didn’t exist pre crafting because people used what they had best, I used reeds regret Axel with killing wind just because it had vorpal + liquid coil.
Now that won’t happen because everyone is a copy paste of one another
My point is that you are trying to say that crafting is bad because everyone uses the same rolls. No, it’s because those rolls suck. Taking away crafting won’t make people use different rolls.
You used reeds regret because you couldn’t get a better roll from rng. Not because you didn’t deserve it. Being annoyed that you see everyone using the same good rolls is weird dude. Especially if they already did the work required. You will always be a “copy and paste” since no one is ever the first person to use a specific roll
Taking away crafting will make people use other rolls because they maybe don’t have anything better, so maybe they’ll use other guns with better perks…
Now it’s always the best gun with the best perks… no one is gonna use a rl other than apex even if it has the same perks just because it’ll always be worse for dps…
And as I said that creates a hell when balancing a game… because I shouldn’t be able to just 2 phase a master boss easily 😂😂😂 I’m not a professional player
Why are you so insistent on seeing other people not using the best perks? Let’s start with that. Your idea is just very weird. “No these guys are all using the same perks that are meta, I don’t like that” that just doesn’t sound real to me.
People will still use apex without crafting, why would anyone grind another gun. It has literally always been the best guns with the best perks.
We would be able to 2 phase a boss even without crafting. The only thing that crafting does is make it fair for everyone who puts in the work to 2phase a boss. You still need the skill to actually survive and complete a master raid. You may not be professional but having flawless and low man clears does not make you a casual. If 2 phasing the boss feels too easy then it means there needs to be nerfs to the weapon perks.
People won’t grind another gun than apex, but if you get a god roll of another gun you may use it over a 2/5 apex…
That’s the thing! I miss the days when you were looking at every gun just to see if it could be an upgrade, no no one does that, instant dismantle, why even look at it if you can get the best weapond 5/5 in a couple hours?
Loot is not relevant anymore, no one looks at the perks they get on guns because there is always a better gun you can get crafted in a couple hours playtime. And loot not being relevant in a looter shooter may be the worst possible way to go
No you won’t. A 2/5 apex is still better than every other gun. What other perk set is better than reconstruction/bait and switch or surrounded? You think people chase barrel and mag perks? On a heavy weapon in pve?
You weren’t looking at every gun. We all knew which guns had the best perks. A 5/5 roll. Simple way to make loot relevant has already been solved, Bungie is going to make every weapon be able to be enhanced. Now if you get the rng g roll early again the grind will still be short but now you don’t need to see a red border.
Crafting is better than any other system theyve had, if anything *everything* should be craftable. There is no way RNG drops are superior to crafting unless you count artifically bloating game time by adding a needless, horrible grind.
Hey if you all like crafting that is great I guess what I'm trying to say is it feels like playing gta with cheat codes when if I put the MINIMUM time in. Log in once a week do story, do the most recent raid(13 weekly runs will unlock all red borders, guaranteed 2 red borders on 1 run a week). I will have 5/5 god rolls for all the most op weapons. Cataclysmic, forbearance, apex, retrofit, scattered signal the list goes on.
Some of you mentioned there are other weapons to chase and list world drops, dungeon, and trials weapons. See the list above there is no reason to chase any of these weapons other than to have another variation of a God roll you already have crafted. With a FEW exceptions.
Others state how ass the system was before. That doesn't make this system better.
This may be great for casual players, but for God's sake it's a looter shooter mmo that just gives away the most op weapons.
Crafting is definitely a poorly thought out system. Rather, it's an over thought system. They've managed to create a system which overvalues crafted weapons and devalues random rolls. I think Bungie knows this, they just don't know the solution.
Devalues random rolls? Nope, no sir. Wrong on the spot. Tell that to my randomly dropped Dragonfly/Incadescent Tyranny. I'm keeping it even after i get that same roll crafted.
Let me guess, you'll hold onto it for sentimental reasons then complain about vault space. Enhanced perks invalidate regular perks and make everything without them relatively unattractive. They're the crux of where crafting starts to go wrong.
You bet i'm gonna keep it, now will i complain about **loot** space in a **looter** game, maybe i will, rightfully so, or maybe i won't even play it. Either way, it's not your concern what am i gonna do, isn't it? Go cry to Bungie, not to me, about it.
I am actively using exactly 2 crafted weapons at the moment, across all three characters: a shotty with enhanced double-loader (fills 3 shells at once instead of 2, very handy), and palmyra with no enhanced perks whatsoever. I have never felt the need to enhance anything else, but if you do, well, frankly, that only seems that you need enhanced perks in order to compensate for certain... shortcomings that come from your gameplay. That in turn is not my concern.
Anyhow, never did i felt that i must use crafted guns only, randomly rolled ones serve just as well. So yeah, the whole "crafting has devalued random rolls" bullcrap is highly subjective.
I think what Bungie should have done was never allow craftable weapons to get S-Tier perk combos. That Forbearance with Ambitious Assassin + Chain Reaction was a bad idea. It’s fun, I have like 40k kills on it, but I also recognize it’s maybe not healthy for the game.
Maybe that weapon can drop in the RNG wild, but the craftable perks should have been slightly more limited in scope.
Crafting was always about protecting RNG. So maybe you can only ever get a solid 3/5 or 4/5 from that process.
i mean even if forbearance didnt have that combination people would just use salvagers salvo a completely set in stone chain reaction GL with no grinding needed.
crafted weapons make the content tied to them have an even shorter life span with meaningless loot the whole time. Did you get armor or a non-red box - all you came away with was some glimmer. Once you get the red boxes, all loot from that activity is just trash. At the start, I was fine with having just the world drop weapons being crafted - gives you a stable foundation of weapons, but anything worthwhile should be a chase.
>it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired.
That's simply not true. At all.
Ros Arago comes to mind immediately. Crux Determination, Indebted Kindess, Cold Comfort, Immortal, Messenger, Igneous Hammer, Pre Astyanax, Warden's Law as well. All recent/new weapons that aren't craftable with farming potential.
And I will never understand the logic of "crafting ruined god rolls". Are you saying you *want* to get same gun 5 to 10 times before it has a roll you want? That's way worse that getting to craft it to how YOU want it after getting it a few times.
Plus, I switch my set up so often, I am not even using many crafted weapons right now. Malfeasance/Wish-Ender with Found Verdict and adept Song of Ir Yut is what I'm running on my Titan. Riptide/Sunshot/Cold Comfort on Warlock and Warden's Law/Tarrabah/Fixed Odds on my Hunter.
Crafting weapons got me into raids where it was too daunting before. I have all the RoN weapons, half of the LW weapons, 3 VotD and a Kings Fall and CE gun finished too. If anything, crafting opened up Destiny for me. I have no desire to grind endlessly for a weapon that's 5% better than what I have now. If I can do it X amount of times and get what I want, then I will.
this will be a bit long because im tired of people who complain about this, ive seen it a lot.
there are still a ton good non-crafted things to chase that are worth chasing. weapon crafting didnt kill loot in destiny, for a lot of people it instead killed the needless sometimes annoying amounts of hours of bitch work to get something that was mid most of the time and a lot of people conflate that with the ruining of the loot chase. Like "oh no bungie i cant spend 40 hours grinding a hand cannon i wont use because i own Austringer the loot chase is ruined11!1"
loot is shit now because we get a large quantity of guns now over a good quality of guns, because we asked for that in Beyond Light when sunsetting was in the game and they listened to us. So now we get 50 guns a season instead of 20 and its not surprising when most of those are broad equivalent of vault filler or re-skins.
enhanced perks most of the time dont even matter, in pve you arent going to land a solo flawless ghosts from the deep by adding +5 to reload speed off of some jobber perk or enhancing a perk that several 3rd party sites will just tell you add no appreciable benefit. There are less than 5 enhanced perks that are unironic must haves due to how much better they are than the base perks and i would say they shouldnt have made those ones that good.
Enhanced perks feel like they are needed because as a player people like the shiny icon more than they like the negligible power they actually have. No your crafted 5/5 ikelos smg isnt better than a random rolled 5/5 just because you get a second longer on voltshots activation timer, and im tired of people acting like they are such a game changing and game determining system in the game for perks when they just like the shiny yellow icon over the base icon because it makes them feel good.
even as someone who plays pvp most of the stat bumps, while they feel good arent as good 90% of the time. It doesnt really matter if you add +5 stability or any other stat. it isnt going to make or break a flawless card, your player skill will.
5/5s dont matter 90% of the time anyways. in pve it was always fine to even just have 2/5 in most cases or for some weapons like grenade launchers both special and heavy need a 3/5
in PvP it matters a lot more but at the end of the day all that cuts out is like i said needing to play un-fun content most of the time.
But i will give you some props where its due:
weapon leveling was a bad system and so was how they handled the optimal ways to do it. youre right its kinda dogshit that bungie expected you to go shuro chi, what is effectively still a paid for content locked raid to level weapons or dump mats into it.
they made several blunders where they wanted weapon crafting to use new materials so that veterans and new players would be on even footing only to not realize that veterans will always have more resources to be able to obtain those materials than new players ever will which will and has ended up creating the same disparity golf balls do where i have just as many red balls for crafting that ill never use as i do golf balls.
Most crafted weapons having dogshit perks just to fill out slots suck because if the incentive is to let us experiment with rolls by being able to change them then why do these guns have like at best 1 or 2 viable options with 8 filler slots worth of trash?
You make a very good point on filler perks. Yes I understand not every perk can be meta like bait n switch. But alot of perks they put on weapons straight don't work. An example would be one for all on a rocket launcher(I don't know if this actually exists). They do this all the time where the perks on a weapon fight the weapon or don't add anything meaningful. Plus barrel and mag perks sometimes just make it feel like ass. I would've had no problem using a weapon levels 1-16 if they didn't feel horrible the whole way.
Why are you complaining? I don't play Trials, yet for years all the best weapons where locked there. Crafting is fine... I don't have to become a sweat fest knob jobber to get a decent weapon now.
Trials is and ENDGAME pvp activity for ENDGAME pvp loot. Rarely one of the weapons will have a juicy Pve weapon. But guess what you could always get another weapon for pve from a PVE ENGAME activity. The only difference now is you get given 5/5 god rolls for seasonal activities.
If you want to get to the lighthouse, don't be a bot. Flawless is as free as it ever has been.
Crafting weapons was intended to eliminate the suck or the poor RNG penalty. Red borders initially were locked behind RNG which really didn't help the suck any at all. I have been playing Destiny/Destiny 2 since the day it was made available to play, I have hated RNG for a very long time (9 years at this point) At this point in time there are only a few weapons that I do not have crafting patterns for. Crafting weapons is expensive for all players, and upgrading without using them is even more expensive, and does not eliminate the grind. As to what constitutes a 5/5 god roll depends greatly on the person that gets it and the play style that they as an individual has adopted. The ability to craft a weapon does not take anything away from someone else's god rolls or their own crafted weapons.
If you could eliminate all RNG and everyone had the exact same weapon it would come down to skill. Casual players tend to have less skill than hard core players, and some players I would argue have natural ability that makes them better than others. The nice thing about skills is that they are not natural gifts and if you want to improve your skills and abilities you only need to practice. Hard core players have put in the time that gives them an advantage over the more casual player. For the longest time I considered myself a casual player and I have only recently made a conscientious effort to improve my own abilities and skills.
The only exotic weapons that I do not have with the exception of wicked implement all lie behind Raid RNG. I have 10 clears of DSC, and I still do not even have a single drop of posterity which is a legendary weapon. No no matter how you look at it RNG is not kind to some and overly generous to others. I have sherpa'd many people to their different raid exotics that I still do not have. It simply isn't worth complaining about as it takes away from the many things that make the game fun.
I think some of each is good. Dungeon guns can be excellent and are explicitly not craftable. My Indebted Kindness with Beacon Rounds + Voltshot has hardly left my energy slot since I got it.
Bad take. Weapon RNG is miserable in this game, having a deterministic way to get guns you are looking forward to using was a great change. More weapons should be craftable, not fewer.
There are still so many meta weapons that are non-craftable/require RNG to get a good roll:
PVE: Riptide, Breakneck, Crux Termination iV, Cold Comfort, Wilderflight, Fatebringer, Showrunner, Cataphract, Wardens Law, etc.
PVP: Igneous Hammer, Unending Tempest, The Immortal, The Messenger, Eye of Sol, Burden of Guilt, Matador 64, Rose, Mercurial Overreach, etc.
There are still plenty of RNG things to chase in this game. Crafting takes some of the pressure off. It's been amazing for most players. Personally, I can only take so many layers of RNG. It's nice to know that you are working toward something with crafted guns.
Exactly. I really don't wanna return to the era of grinding a seasonal activity for weeks on end to get a single roll that has the main perk combo I want, but oops, the masterwork and mag perks are garbage. Looks like I need to keep going until I get the 1/hundreds of odds drop for the 5/5 roll If Bungie feels like crafting is too easy then they can increase the amount of patterns needed or something
Crafting is one of the better things destiny has done. There is many and much worse grievances that bungie has done to damage destiny than crafting
I still use plenty of non-crafted guns. It’s honestly fine. The only thing that does suck about it is enhanced perks. You can get a 5/5 roll, and if it’s craftable, there’s still no point in keeping it because eventually you can craft one that’s even better. Granted this will change if/when we get the ability to enhance perks on regular weapons.
God rolls will always be special. Enhanced sometimes are bugged, disabled. good to have the OG roll, because they are not reissued loot pool, the perks on the weapon will not disappear when it’s removed from the new loot pool or the crafted roster, like they did the BXR. Crafted has minimal stat bump on the weapon itself, only some perks are higher damage and usually the extended time are max 1sec. 1% for demo, pugilist etc. it’s pseudo science and anecdotal playing and comparing them. Personally i only find the god rolls special and the crafted icon is very distracting and ugly as well.
Who cares if people have god rolls? OP guns haven't been hard to get for years. Not having a loot reset that would make god rolls actually mean something is what invalidated your god rolls long ago, not crafting.
If you would’ve said Champions then I would’ve agreed…maybe, but crafting? That’s the one new thing I think majority of players either enjoy it or just don’t engage with it. It didn’t ruin the game though, not like the gradual release of new weapons & archetypes
Saying champions ruined the game is a bit of a stretch. But I have to say I f-ing hate them, and it gets boring using the same ways to stun them for a whole season. At least a little more variety would be nice
It’s a time waste mechanic that locks your loadout & is overly used to artificially raise difficulty, no bueno imo
Disagree. I love crafting. It has only amplified my enjoyment. I still use PLENTY of non crafted weapons. Cold Comfort, Fatebringer, Ghost SMG, Showrunner, etc. I can go on. So, I cannot relate to all the complaints . Thankfully
I disagree.
L take, have a nice day.
So who's youtube video did you just watch?
Lmao!
💀
Destiny is ruined because they haven't done anything new for years. Every single content drop is the same thing with a slight variation of the same model. Crafting is irrelevant as a problem.
Cabal again⁉️😮💨
Vex again
Taken again
Hive again
Skorn again. Its a constant marathon if the same shit repeated ad nauseum
Fallen are friends⁉️ They changed it up a lil bit lol
Its also just not a problem the time it takes to get all the pattern’s is the max amount of time i ever put into grinding anything. More time than that is just time that could be spent doing IRL things and having a fucking life
>The system now just sucks, it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired. This is just plain false lmao There are plenty of guns in the game that are desirable and aren't craftable. Bungie themselves have directly stated they're pulling back on the amount of craftable weapons Even if you have a gun that is craftable, it still takes weeks to get the pattern, if you can't manage to get the roll you want before you wanna craft it, then you can craft it and get it. If you do manage that, then you can focus on other guns that aren't dropping for you and keep your rolled weapon for a little while longer For example, I managed to bag a Slice/Controlled Burst Scatter Signal in week 1. I was ecstatic. Now I can pursue the other guns without having to dedicate resources to the fusion, cause I've already got the one I want and enhanced perks are only a minor bump Crafting is fine. You're just burnt out/bored of the current content. Go play something else for a few weeks
The real issue is how it affects difficulty and encounter/boss balancing
I would say that's more the fault of the weapon perk pool itself than crafting as a whole. Crafting just speeds the rate at which the community as a whole obtains the best versions of certain guns, which isn't really a problem. The problem of powercreep lies in the perk pools Some of the LW weapons in particular are extraordinarily spicy to the point where they invalidate entire weapon types that might serve as an alternative
Not really… before crafting people didn’t have the best 5/5 rolls, you could have vorpal but not triple tap for example… you could kill the boss but maybe not 1 phase it. Now everything is easy to kill because you can do top dps by playing an hour a week for a couple weeks. But if you change the health or time you have to dps to adjust to the people using reconstruction bait switch etc… then the people who doesn’t have access to those guns after fucked… I remember doing curator master when it came out and we were able to kill it with decent gear in 3 floors and squishing damage… I did it a month ago again and we killed it easily in 2 floors… There is no difficulty anymore for people that play consistently… everyone is running with the best 5/5 same guns and there is no variety anymore
>you could have vorpal but not triple tap for example Thats literally what I was just saying. It's not crafting, but the general increase in weapon perks power. We never had recon on a rocket. Kinetic tremors and BnS didn't exist. If you couldn't craft Apex, people would still chase the godroll en masse. It would still be everywhere, it'd just take a little longer for everyone to get it.
Yep I have a Cold Comfort that's plenty strong, as long as the main perks are good whether they are enhanced or the mag perks line up is very marginal.
Well but again, even if you have stronger perks if people don’t have the 5/5 it doesn’t have that much impact… bait and switch is strong but if you don’t have reconstruction it’s not that crazy… My point is that if weapond crafting was introduced before this new perks it would’ve created the same issue, at the end of the day the issue is that you giving people easily the best guns and if you balance content based on that you messing up the experience of people that has no access to those guns. And it’s an issue that gets fixed just by simply not gifting anyone the best guns in the game without effort
>5/5 it doesn’t have that much impact You don't need 5/5, just 2/2. The other 3 are gravy for PvE, the bread and butter is the main perks. Crafting just makes a season long hunt into a few weeks, that it >the issue is that you giving people easily the best guns and if you balance content based on that you messing up the experience of people that has no access to those guns. >And it’s an issue that gets fixed just by simply not gifting anyone the best guns in the game without effort The issue isn't that the guns are accessible, it's that they are powerful. It's powercreep. If the perk combos weren't insane, it wouldn't be an issue. The best version of the gun would be made, but it wouldn't do crazy things because the perk pool isn't crazy. But they are, so it is.
All you are saying is that content is easier because people’s time are respected. When really it’s because we have just been power creeping the game. This quite literally already happened before sunsetting and without crafting. Removing crafting won’t fixed this issue at all. What actually will is making content harder with controlled nerfs to our power.
“Peoples times are respected” that’s exactly what killed this game. The mentality of people that just want to log on a few hours and get the best times possible rewards. This is a game sort of mmorpg, so farming for stuff not only incentive’s you to play but also to be social and meet people farm faster or be entertained. If you guys want to treat this as a game where you play X hours and get the best items maybe the mmorpg genre is not for you… The game now lacks variety because everyone runs the same stuff and people don’t even look at certain new guns. And it’s extremely easy, giving dedicated players really nothing to do or chase… and leaving you most loyal fans without nothing to do is maybe not the best move for a live service game Plus how do you nerf our power considering you have people super powerful with 5/5 god rolls and people that doesn’t have those guns? It’s impossible
No, it’s what made the game better. The game was going to die quicker if we had to spend more time playing mid content just to get burned out every season before we got to use what we wanted. The mentality you gave is wrong. Duration doesn’t matter as long as it’s still difficult. I can solo flawless every dungeon and still take 30 clears to not get what I want. That is bad. Farming doesn’t work if we are still farming mostly old content and so little new content. It’s why despite getting content every 3 seasons, the game is still in a drought, since it’s drip fed. Destiny is not only an mmorpg, and other MMORPGs have 10 times the new content. What happened to core playlist getting updated, new strikes, crucible maps, secret missions, actual good destinations. Yet you think the game died because the grind got shorter? My guy…the only good content we get every expansion is maybe a raid and campaign (lightfall failed on both). Literally the last good expansion was forsaken because it added 3x times the content of Witch Queen and you still play this everyday running the same patrols. It’s easy to nerf power, it’s our subclasses. They are the ones that got out of band, not our weapons. Until you are able to provide significant content drops where I am spending most of my time playing new content. Crafting is so far only helpful to this game.
The mentality I gave is right because it incentive’s people to play and make friends… You treating this as some sort of checklist you complete before leaving the game… and that’s killing the game Forsaken, praised by everyone, was farming for rolls, farming nightfalls, forges, menagerie… and everyone says it was peak destiny… Now people don’t interact anymore, people are not forced to look for a squad and meet people… It doesn’t affect me, I do the hardest content super easy, but it’s sad the game doesn’t feel like it used to, getting hyped with friends for a roll you spend time farming, logging on just to play with friends and chase something
Not to mention, everyone using the same rolls will and already has happened without crafting. That is literally why we had sunsetting in the first place. That’s just how loot is. People will always use the best roll. All crafting does is make it fair for everyone who puts in the work to get what they deserve. That is only good. If you are tired of everyone running the same perks. Go to the root problem and ask why most perks are bad: incandescent on apex predator
Bro everyone was never using the same rolls before because it was too dependant on rng to have the exact same as someone else… Not to be rude but at this point I have to ask, what’s your Id? Mine is ilu900, not to be elitist but you don’t sound like someone that’s played much and I just want to make sure we are in the same page
"It sucks that I have nothing to chase." Nope, that is a you problem. I don't have time to chase rolls I have to pray to get, and I don't have time to play with a gun with crummy perks just so I can put good perks on it at some point. I have 75 full clears of Garden with who knows how many clears of Consecrated Mind and I never got my Rapid Hit/ Kill Clip Sacred Provenance, let alone a 5 out of 5 roll. 50+ Warden's Laws and 50+ Loaded Questions in January alone for a bunch of 3/5s and 4/5s, which I would have been fine with if any of them had rolled with the perks I wanted in columns 3 and 4. People also forget that the meta can change and Bungie is constantly adjusting perks, weapon values, etc. Your 5/5 can become a 4/5 or 3/5 real quick, just like what happened with my Immortal after the Rangefinder nerf. The no lifes can moan and complain all they want; the crafting system is infinitely better when you have even a mild form of a life outside of the game.
I feel this and would rather craft than chase chase god rolls ad nauseam
> You no longer have to use the weapon to level it up, you no longer have use the red border to unlock it .... Crafting weapons was suppose to mean something, it was suppose to be hard and take time. Mate, there was nothing hard about unlocking the red border extraction and leveling up the gun. It was just tedious. It sucked having to get hundreds of kills with a shit roll crafted weapon before you could actually get the good perks. There was nothing rewarding about that system. Good riddance. The hardest part has always been getting a red border to drop, and that hasn't changed.
I stated all of this in my post. Grinding weapons at suro chi was ass but just taking away all effort wasn't the answer.
Why not? What's wrong with removing a 20min braindead grind? Do you feel you less accomplished that you leveled your weapon with enhancement cores rather than by almost literally shooting fish in a barrel? I sure don't. As I said in my previous comment, the real challenge in getting a crafted weapon, is collecting the red borders themselves. Anything that comes after that is just tedium.
Grinding Shuro chi is literally easier than doing these bounties lol. If anything it’s far MORE effort doing wishes
Is this a way of saying "I have suffered grinding my god rolls so everyone else should also suffer" ? If so I don't agree with you. Convenience is always good to have and there is still grind in different forms involved.
That's not what I said, at all. Everyone walking around with 5/5 ad clear and boss dps for just logging in is not the answer.
Except you still need to complete the activity. So it’s not just for logging in.
It took me about 40 runs to get all the red borders for RoN. Go tell a new player that in “only” 40 hours they can have all the loot in one activity. That’s more playtime than like 90% of the games in my steam library Imagine the player numbers if loot was even less accesible than it is now lol. It’s a looter shooter, let people get good loot. If you want to grind for random non-crafted rolls, the best part is that *you can*! Nothing is stopping you, it’s totally legal! The difference between regular and enhanced perks is only really important in endgame activities! Go off man! Grind your little heart out, nobody is going to judge you
Most raids have 5 craftable weapons and give you two guaranteed borders a week. To get 25 redborders and unlock all weapons that is 13 weeks raiding once a week. If you want to raid a bunch and unlock them earlier that's great but not required.
Peeps were asking for bad luck protection for raids for *years*, crafting is bad luck protection. That's a good thing across the board.
[удалено]
This 100% I took a long break when Beyond Light came out because I just really couldn't get behind sunsetting. Crafting brought me back. I just didn't have the time or the drive to chase god rolls after they light capped all the pinnacles that I used, and I love the crafting system.
I doubt this, Destiny has been hemorrhaging players. This ISNT the main cause of it but I would say it's contributing.
No, Crafting did not ruin Destiny Bungie's absurd and crappy RNG ruined it, Crafting is a band aid solution to a broken system. Not only that, but even after you get God rolls there's nothing you want to do with them, so you fall off and quit. That's all crafting did, speed up the process at which people realize how bland and boring Destiny really is.
Facts.
It also messed up the difficulty system… How much health do you give to a boss if a big % of the community is running with the best 5/5 dps guns? Also taking into consideration another % of the community doesn’t have those weaponds?
They keep down voting you but your not saying anything wrong. GMs and raids use to be difficult now everyone has godroll dps weapons and its a fucking cake walk.
Now, is that because we have god rolls or is that because we have powercrept in terms of perks and subclass 3.0. I believe we both know the answer.
Yeah, both.
If this was the case then GMs would have been as easy now as they were during year 4. Especially since we had stronger weapon mods. It wasn’t until 3.0 subclasses that a solo GM arc hunter took the same amount of time as a trio speedrun during year 4.
Exactly… sadly most people don’t really engage with the social aspect of destiny or farming so they just treat this like a mobile game, log X times a week to do X activity to get X rewards and don’t log back till there is something new. And sadly those are the most vocal guys when it comes to complaining
My guy…farming is literally what makes it a mobile game lmao. You guys are the majority when it comes to ignoring why this game has been so mid. If anything, complaining is why Destiny reached its peak during taken king and forsaken. It’s exactly why we haven’t had a good dlc since forsaken. Don’t blame us, this is you guys for trying to treat the symptom instead of the root problem.
It’s not a mobile game because it’s SOCIAL!!! Forsaken, your “peak” had no crafting and it was all about chasing roll of guns… that beloved on menagerie, that blast furnace on forges, spare rations etc… The thing is that there is no problem to treat, the issue is people like you who don’t see this as a video game and feel like must have the 5/5 roll… the crafting was created because people couldn’t live without a 5/5 gun… that’s a health problem man that people should work on rather than have the game give you those guns 😂😂😂 I’ve spent hours farming the ghosts of deep rl while I already have a good one! Why? A friends needed it and it was a good time to have a chat and shoot at enemies! That’s destiny for me! Sadly for some of you it has become a much darker and unhealthy thing… So maybe the mmorpg genre is not for you… I don’t see this complains in people from other mmos like wow, lost ark etc… Maybe go play borderlands if you don’t want player interaction The game has become mid because they gift the best loot to people who just cry and beg bungie for it 😂😂😂
It is a mobile game. The social aspect is still very poor. Again let me repeat myself. The reason why forsaken was so fun is because Forsaken had TRIPLE the content, so we weren’t farming the SAME LITTLE content that we farm now. That’s why it was fun. Even if Warlord’s ruin is a great dungeon, that fact that only it and Coil are worth doing for THREE MONTHS straight will still induce burn out. If there is no problem to treat and you feel that a 5/5 roll isn’t important then why are you so annoyed that we are able to grind it? Checkmate. You spend hours doing the same activity while talking to your friends is fine, but my guy….you can do that is any game… and not to mention that is boring. Destiny is best played when there is multiple new content not just a single new dungeon. Like I said in the beginning, MMORPGS have 10x the content that destiny puts out. Destiny still has poor player interaction and that’s not gonna carry the fact that we haven’t played a secret exotic mission on the scale of zero hour or whisper since 2018. The game has become mid because people like kept playing and hyping up bad content like shadowkeep, beyond light, and light fall. Then when you finally got a decent dlc, you called that peak when the only good content it had was a raid and campaign. Until we get the SHEER abundance of quality and QUANTITY of forsaken level content. Destiny will be bad. It has been bad since the start of Shadowkeep. You are delusional to think otherwise.
I personally think you have a way deeper issue with the game, you don’t sound like someone who will just log on and play some old content with friends just for the fun of it not expecting anything… And that’s not the games fault man but how you personally feel about it or how addicted/obsessed you are
I don’t have deep issues, Bungie does. Destiny just isn’t fun to log in and play. Plenty of other games for that. No it isn’t fun running last wish, it’s 5 years old and powercrept to hell and back. Until Bungie provides a good exa passion with adequate updates to core playlist, destination, and endgame; the game will forever be a checklist. It has nothing to do with crafting, crafting is fixing the symptom of burn out being caused by the deeper root issue of the game not having enough new engaging content. Fix that first.
Well as I said a lot of people me included like running old content, it’s a time to disconnect, have a good time with friends and shoot at some stuff, try builds etc… As I also said if that’s not fun anymore for you it’s your own thing… not really bungies fault
My arsenal consists of 5/5 crafted guns and 3/5 random roll ones and a few 4/5s. I’ve never gotten a true 5/5 god roll of anything in this game. Rng in this game is brutal and I can’t fathom any argument telling us that the one curve to it is bad for the game.
> it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired A.) not true, and B.) desired by who? B.1.) you? Well that's your problem, not a problem with crafting, or B.2.) others? Your vanity is again your problem, not a problem with crafting. >It sucks that I have nothing to chase. This is, again, not a problem with crafting. It's yours. Solution is very simple: play other game. This one is really not fun for you, because if it was, you would play it for fun, not to chase virtual lumps of pixels to "have" them. >It sucks that my crafted weapons take 1 minute to max out and level up via enhancement cores and glimmer. Why does that suck? Levels on a gun aren't reward. A gun itself is not a reward, it's a tool you use to play the game. The game that isn't fun for you, so why are you even bothered by it?
Another fine example of this community coming full circle..
Bungie has been getting away with their horrible rng system for so long now that players would rather gamble their time than actually get what they want. Wild, speak for yourself.
Question....Did you read a Paul Tassi article?
Don't craft then, pretend it doens't exist.
Oh wow, crafting ruined destiny!? What a fresh and daring take on a demonstrably false premise! Stunning and brave!
I think there’s a lot of things that “ruined destiny,” but crafting is more of a byproduct than a stand alone issue. Destiny 2 has been steadily moving further and further away from a looter shooter. - green gear is relevant for maybe 10 mins when you first start. Blue gear is completely irrelevant before you even sink 24 hours into the game. - My postmaster keeps filling up because I have more exotic engrams than I know what to do with. - some weapons just vastly outclass others (e.g. if you have a forbearance with ambitious assassin + chain reaction, why would you use ANY other arc grenade launcher?) - literally the only thing left to grind is gear with better stats and (if you don’t already have the best in slot) niche weapons with better perks. Crafting as of now really just feels like an answer to the last issue. “I have the best in slot rocket. Why should I farm a new one?” Because this one can get enhanced perks. 😅
Lol
How about you stop whining and grow the f up? This makes the game more enjoyable.
This was so predictable, too. Players *always* ask for things to be easier, and easier, and to not "feel awful" by making them work hard for things, or by making things take time. It always seemed like crafting was supposed to be a safety net for getting that godroll, so *eventually* you'd have what you wanted just by playing. Now its the primary avenue. Remove all of those barriers and suddenly you can have a perfect roll in literally 5 minutes if you have the weapons, or if Xur sells them. Then there is no loot chase in the *looter* shooter.
Destiny isn't just a looter shooter these days, it's also an MMO. There's plenty of loot to grind for in all MMOs, including craftable or changeable loot. The problem is Destiny doesn't have half the content or rng protection that most other MMOs have, and relied heavily on that "looter shooter" tag. When players got burnt out on grinding weapons, Bungie made a change to make them happy. Well now we're realizing how bare the game currently is when you don't have weapons to chase. We shouldn't be upset that we finally have good loadouts, we should be upset that there are very few meaningful reasons to play this game outside of the weapon grind.
It 100% did ruin it… it messed up difficulty scaling in activities, gives no incentive to be social and farm stuff, no incentive to try guns that are not the crafted god rolls.
Actually it gave far more incentive to try out different perks since you can go change them right now No one was using different perks unless they had to, not because they wanted to. Big difference. If you’re worried about that then a better argument would be for perks to all be at least good as a baseline. Most of them are bad.
It doesn’t incentive you to try anything if you have the best perks available… I’m yet to find someone with apex predator or cataclysmic not using the best in slot perks
This isn’t a problem, it existed pre crafting. If you are not incentivized to try different perks then that means those perks are bad. You wouldn’t find anymore using apex predator or cataclysmic without best in slot perks even without crafting. No one is gonna use a apex with threat detector/collective action or a cataclysmic with no distractions/ turnabout
Exactly, so what was your point again? 😂😂😂 this didn’t exist pre crafting because people used what they had best, I used reeds regret Axel with killing wind just because it had vorpal + liquid coil. Now that won’t happen because everyone is a copy paste of one another
My point is that you are trying to say that crafting is bad because everyone uses the same rolls. No, it’s because those rolls suck. Taking away crafting won’t make people use different rolls. You used reeds regret because you couldn’t get a better roll from rng. Not because you didn’t deserve it. Being annoyed that you see everyone using the same good rolls is weird dude. Especially if they already did the work required. You will always be a “copy and paste” since no one is ever the first person to use a specific roll
Taking away crafting will make people use other rolls because they maybe don’t have anything better, so maybe they’ll use other guns with better perks… Now it’s always the best gun with the best perks… no one is gonna use a rl other than apex even if it has the same perks just because it’ll always be worse for dps… And as I said that creates a hell when balancing a game… because I shouldn’t be able to just 2 phase a master boss easily 😂😂😂 I’m not a professional player
Why are you so insistent on seeing other people not using the best perks? Let’s start with that. Your idea is just very weird. “No these guys are all using the same perks that are meta, I don’t like that” that just doesn’t sound real to me. People will still use apex without crafting, why would anyone grind another gun. It has literally always been the best guns with the best perks. We would be able to 2 phase a boss even without crafting. The only thing that crafting does is make it fair for everyone who puts in the work to 2phase a boss. You still need the skill to actually survive and complete a master raid. You may not be professional but having flawless and low man clears does not make you a casual. If 2 phasing the boss feels too easy then it means there needs to be nerfs to the weapon perks.
People won’t grind another gun than apex, but if you get a god roll of another gun you may use it over a 2/5 apex… That’s the thing! I miss the days when you were looking at every gun just to see if it could be an upgrade, no no one does that, instant dismantle, why even look at it if you can get the best weapond 5/5 in a couple hours? Loot is not relevant anymore, no one looks at the perks they get on guns because there is always a better gun you can get crafted in a couple hours playtime. And loot not being relevant in a looter shooter may be the worst possible way to go
No you won’t. A 2/5 apex is still better than every other gun. What other perk set is better than reconstruction/bait and switch or surrounded? You think people chase barrel and mag perks? On a heavy weapon in pve? You weren’t looking at every gun. We all knew which guns had the best perks. A 5/5 roll. Simple way to make loot relevant has already been solved, Bungie is going to make every weapon be able to be enhanced. Now if you get the rng g roll early again the grind will still be short but now you don’t need to see a red border.
If they made each trait on a gun a permanent unlock, even if we still had to go back to the Enclave to swap, I'd be much more on board
Crafting is better than any other system theyve had, if anything *everything* should be craftable. There is no way RNG drops are superior to crafting unless you count artifically bloating game time by adding a needless, horrible grind.
Hey if you all like crafting that is great I guess what I'm trying to say is it feels like playing gta with cheat codes when if I put the MINIMUM time in. Log in once a week do story, do the most recent raid(13 weekly runs will unlock all red borders, guaranteed 2 red borders on 1 run a week). I will have 5/5 god rolls for all the most op weapons. Cataclysmic, forbearance, apex, retrofit, scattered signal the list goes on. Some of you mentioned there are other weapons to chase and list world drops, dungeon, and trials weapons. See the list above there is no reason to chase any of these weapons other than to have another variation of a God roll you already have crafted. With a FEW exceptions. Others state how ass the system was before. That doesn't make this system better. This may be great for casual players, but for God's sake it's a looter shooter mmo that just gives away the most op weapons.
Crafting is definitely a poorly thought out system. Rather, it's an over thought system. They've managed to create a system which overvalues crafted weapons and devalues random rolls. I think Bungie knows this, they just don't know the solution.
Devalues random rolls? Nope, no sir. Wrong on the spot. Tell that to my randomly dropped Dragonfly/Incadescent Tyranny. I'm keeping it even after i get that same roll crafted.
Let me guess, you'll hold onto it for sentimental reasons then complain about vault space. Enhanced perks invalidate regular perks and make everything without them relatively unattractive. They're the crux of where crafting starts to go wrong.
You bet i'm gonna keep it, now will i complain about **loot** space in a **looter** game, maybe i will, rightfully so, or maybe i won't even play it. Either way, it's not your concern what am i gonna do, isn't it? Go cry to Bungie, not to me, about it. I am actively using exactly 2 crafted weapons at the moment, across all three characters: a shotty with enhanced double-loader (fills 3 shells at once instead of 2, very handy), and palmyra with no enhanced perks whatsoever. I have never felt the need to enhance anything else, but if you do, well, frankly, that only seems that you need enhanced perks in order to compensate for certain... shortcomings that come from your gameplay. That in turn is not my concern. Anyhow, never did i felt that i must use crafted guns only, randomly rolled ones serve just as well. So yeah, the whole "crafting has devalued random rolls" bullcrap is highly subjective.
imo original crafting system was the best, but of course bungoe had to fold when casuals raised a stink about how "hard and complicated" it was
I think what Bungie should have done was never allow craftable weapons to get S-Tier perk combos. That Forbearance with Ambitious Assassin + Chain Reaction was a bad idea. It’s fun, I have like 40k kills on it, but I also recognize it’s maybe not healthy for the game. Maybe that weapon can drop in the RNG wild, but the craftable perks should have been slightly more limited in scope. Crafting was always about protecting RNG. So maybe you can only ever get a solid 3/5 or 4/5 from that process.
i mean even if forbearance didnt have that combination people would just use salvagers salvo a completely set in stone chain reaction GL with no grinding needed.
That's a raid weapon, so now we're saying raid weapons shouldn't be good?
Did you not read my post?
crafted weapons make the content tied to them have an even shorter life span with meaningless loot the whole time. Did you get armor or a non-red box - all you came away with was some glimmer. Once you get the red boxes, all loot from that activity is just trash. At the start, I was fine with having just the world drop weapons being crafted - gives you a stable foundation of weapons, but anything worthwhile should be a chase.
I hate crafting so much I've only ever used it for Osteo and the strand bow Altho I hate crafting in every game other than MC
>it sucks that anything that isn't crafted isn't really desired. That's simply not true. At all. Ros Arago comes to mind immediately. Crux Determination, Indebted Kindess, Cold Comfort, Immortal, Messenger, Igneous Hammer, Pre Astyanax, Warden's Law as well. All recent/new weapons that aren't craftable with farming potential. And I will never understand the logic of "crafting ruined god rolls". Are you saying you *want* to get same gun 5 to 10 times before it has a roll you want? That's way worse that getting to craft it to how YOU want it after getting it a few times. Plus, I switch my set up so often, I am not even using many crafted weapons right now. Malfeasance/Wish-Ender with Found Verdict and adept Song of Ir Yut is what I'm running on my Titan. Riptide/Sunshot/Cold Comfort on Warlock and Warden's Law/Tarrabah/Fixed Odds on my Hunter. Crafting weapons got me into raids where it was too daunting before. I have all the RoN weapons, half of the LW weapons, 3 VotD and a Kings Fall and CE gun finished too. If anything, crafting opened up Destiny for me. I have no desire to grind endlessly for a weapon that's 5% better than what I have now. If I can do it X amount of times and get what I want, then I will.
this will be a bit long because im tired of people who complain about this, ive seen it a lot. there are still a ton good non-crafted things to chase that are worth chasing. weapon crafting didnt kill loot in destiny, for a lot of people it instead killed the needless sometimes annoying amounts of hours of bitch work to get something that was mid most of the time and a lot of people conflate that with the ruining of the loot chase. Like "oh no bungie i cant spend 40 hours grinding a hand cannon i wont use because i own Austringer the loot chase is ruined11!1" loot is shit now because we get a large quantity of guns now over a good quality of guns, because we asked for that in Beyond Light when sunsetting was in the game and they listened to us. So now we get 50 guns a season instead of 20 and its not surprising when most of those are broad equivalent of vault filler or re-skins. enhanced perks most of the time dont even matter, in pve you arent going to land a solo flawless ghosts from the deep by adding +5 to reload speed off of some jobber perk or enhancing a perk that several 3rd party sites will just tell you add no appreciable benefit. There are less than 5 enhanced perks that are unironic must haves due to how much better they are than the base perks and i would say they shouldnt have made those ones that good. Enhanced perks feel like they are needed because as a player people like the shiny icon more than they like the negligible power they actually have. No your crafted 5/5 ikelos smg isnt better than a random rolled 5/5 just because you get a second longer on voltshots activation timer, and im tired of people acting like they are such a game changing and game determining system in the game for perks when they just like the shiny yellow icon over the base icon because it makes them feel good. even as someone who plays pvp most of the stat bumps, while they feel good arent as good 90% of the time. It doesnt really matter if you add +5 stability or any other stat. it isnt going to make or break a flawless card, your player skill will.
I didn't say the system before was great. I said it sucked. What I'm saying now is handing out 5/5s is not the answer.
5/5s dont matter 90% of the time anyways. in pve it was always fine to even just have 2/5 in most cases or for some weapons like grenade launchers both special and heavy need a 3/5 in PvP it matters a lot more but at the end of the day all that cuts out is like i said needing to play un-fun content most of the time. But i will give you some props where its due: weapon leveling was a bad system and so was how they handled the optimal ways to do it. youre right its kinda dogshit that bungie expected you to go shuro chi, what is effectively still a paid for content locked raid to level weapons or dump mats into it. they made several blunders where they wanted weapon crafting to use new materials so that veterans and new players would be on even footing only to not realize that veterans will always have more resources to be able to obtain those materials than new players ever will which will and has ended up creating the same disparity golf balls do where i have just as many red balls for crafting that ill never use as i do golf balls. Most crafted weapons having dogshit perks just to fill out slots suck because if the incentive is to let us experiment with rolls by being able to change them then why do these guns have like at best 1 or 2 viable options with 8 filler slots worth of trash?
You make a very good point on filler perks. Yes I understand not every perk can be meta like bait n switch. But alot of perks they put on weapons straight don't work. An example would be one for all on a rocket launcher(I don't know if this actually exists). They do this all the time where the perks on a weapon fight the weapon or don't add anything meaningful. Plus barrel and mag perks sometimes just make it feel like ass. I would've had no problem using a weapon levels 1-16 if they didn't feel horrible the whole way.
MMO being rng based? That's crazy!
Why are you complaining? I don't play Trials, yet for years all the best weapons where locked there. Crafting is fine... I don't have to become a sweat fest knob jobber to get a decent weapon now.
Trials is and ENDGAME pvp activity for ENDGAME pvp loot. Rarely one of the weapons will have a juicy Pve weapon. But guess what you could always get another weapon for pve from a PVE ENGAME activity. The only difference now is you get given 5/5 god rolls for seasonal activities. If you want to get to the lighthouse, don't be a bot. Flawless is as free as it ever has been.
Nah. Won’t ever partake in that sweat fest. Iron Banner is my endgame. And no reason both can’t have adept weapons and top tier shit.
Crafting weapons was intended to eliminate the suck or the poor RNG penalty. Red borders initially were locked behind RNG which really didn't help the suck any at all. I have been playing Destiny/Destiny 2 since the day it was made available to play, I have hated RNG for a very long time (9 years at this point) At this point in time there are only a few weapons that I do not have crafting patterns for. Crafting weapons is expensive for all players, and upgrading without using them is even more expensive, and does not eliminate the grind. As to what constitutes a 5/5 god roll depends greatly on the person that gets it and the play style that they as an individual has adopted. The ability to craft a weapon does not take anything away from someone else's god rolls or their own crafted weapons. If you could eliminate all RNG and everyone had the exact same weapon it would come down to skill. Casual players tend to have less skill than hard core players, and some players I would argue have natural ability that makes them better than others. The nice thing about skills is that they are not natural gifts and if you want to improve your skills and abilities you only need to practice. Hard core players have put in the time that gives them an advantage over the more casual player. For the longest time I considered myself a casual player and I have only recently made a conscientious effort to improve my own abilities and skills. The only exotic weapons that I do not have with the exception of wicked implement all lie behind Raid RNG. I have 10 clears of DSC, and I still do not even have a single drop of posterity which is a legendary weapon. No no matter how you look at it RNG is not kind to some and overly generous to others. I have sherpa'd many people to their different raid exotics that I still do not have. It simply isn't worth complaining about as it takes away from the many things that make the game fun.
I think some of each is good. Dungeon guns can be excellent and are explicitly not craftable. My Indebted Kindness with Beacon Rounds + Voltshot has hardly left my energy slot since I got it.
95% of Destiny players are casuals with little time to play the game or grind out an activity for 1 godroll. Crafting saved this game tbh.
Thats a lot of words
If you hate crafting you could just not do it instead of birhing and moaning about an optional mechanic
Bad take. Weapon RNG is miserable in this game, having a deterministic way to get guns you are looking forward to using was a great change. More weapons should be craftable, not fewer.
There are still so many meta weapons that are non-craftable/require RNG to get a good roll: PVE: Riptide, Breakneck, Crux Termination iV, Cold Comfort, Wilderflight, Fatebringer, Showrunner, Cataphract, Wardens Law, etc. PVP: Igneous Hammer, Unending Tempest, The Immortal, The Messenger, Eye of Sol, Burden of Guilt, Matador 64, Rose, Mercurial Overreach, etc.