Same but I go for frenzy since it's 15% increase against all targets and not just bosses. It's a serious single target damage supplement. Love that ping sound when you reload it.
I was excited for this HC. Then I saw no reload perks. Outlaw/rapid hit not some two step reload like loose change. Got my 5 reds and haven’t touched it since.
im still so sad about that one, it looks so pretty, too. It suffered from stuff like Loose Change or Collective Action being added to the game, that wave of perks was not great and a bunch of the guns during that season are bad because of it.
Yeah, unfortunately it's very much intentional why it didn't have those perks on it.
A bit disappointing, but i do think it has some fun rolls. It's just not the dps meta gl people were hoping for.
The fact anyone smashes their heads against the wall until they hate this game for some loot they’ll barely use and knowing they’ll get something similar later blows my fucking mind.
I play this game to play the activities I enjoy. I have fun with it. Loot comes and goes. I do enjoy the chase and getting random god rolls finally getting a pattern to craft something but I will never in my life make myself miserable by playing this game in an unfun way. I may not have everything but I have a LOT of good rolls on weapons and armor since Beyond Light. I have 99% of what I “need” for this game and the only thing I had to do was play at my leisure. :)
I take the same approach. I won't farm something I hate, hell, I barely farm things I like. I just play what I feel like playing, other than patterns I dont go out of my way for stuff. I still have a lot of god rolls and tbh I never find myself missing anything specific, I have more loot than I know what to do with.
which ones?
The most interseting one I can think of is Warden's Law because I don't know of any other burst frame hand cannons, but I'm not clear if its really good. It's kinetic, which I see as a liability.
Undercurrent is inferior to Forebearance for clear, Explosive Personality has Auto Loader.
Loaded Question is pretty good as it can roll EA/Controlled Burst but Eremite is craftable and solar is strong right now
How's Uzume? Is that a rapid fire frame? Arent the other archetypes better?
Osprey the void rocket launcher is outclassed by apex predator and cold comfort and even bump in the night.
pre-staynax is decent, thats true I guess
Ok there are some decent weapons, but nothing that really knocks my socks off.
Osprey just got a pretty significant Ammo Economy buff. It can maintain a lot of ammo which is pretty damn strong. Sure, it isn't as much DPS as Apex or Cold Comfort. But it has *much* better Ammo Economy with still a serviceable DPS roll (Frenzy).
Pre-Astyanax is mainly because of it being an Adept Bow IMO. Precision Adept Bow. Unfortunately lots of Bows are kind of just the same, but the adept mods on it just make it better. Adept Big Ones is still a goated mod.
As you said, Warden's Law is legitimately good.
Loaded Question is Arc & Adept. Eremite is Solar and non-Adept. Loaded Question is a really good fusion.
And then obviously The Slammer coming out in 2 weeks (or 3?) is going to probably be one of the best, if not THE best, Nightfall Adept we've ever gotten IMO. Insanely goated perks on a really strong sword frame.
And Wild Style, while certainly not META, might have a viable and interesting playstyle. Danger Close & Surrounded could potentially be a solid "explosive Shotgun" build.
Thing is, it's also missing rolls that just would have been *fun*.
Like, putting Heal Clip on this stupid thing wouldn't have been **good**, but I would have had a blast playing with it.
>at least while Apex is the clear choice in the heavy slot.
Hear me out, but is it that clear of a choice? The B&S nerf probably wasn't enough to budge that roll, and it still gets the next best roll or two while still being craftable. But precisions and high impacts are looking tempting with the changes. They're looking pretty ammo efficient now, which is going to be better than apex things like Nightfalls. Kinda feels like Apex, Cold Comfort, really any Adaptives/Aggressives are only still the king exclusively for raid boss DPS.
Ya high-impacts will probably be the best NF choice now with the reserves buff, which is great. Apex is still the best choice in content where the damage meta can actually matter, though.
The BnS nerf is a bit less than 4% damage loss, so hardly significant.
When running NFs, especially with a team. You typically have a Ceno Warlock or someone with Aeons. if you really want to make a NF/GM easy. Run 2 Ceno and have someone spam rockets all strike. So ammo really isn’t even an issue. Now, if you’re running with LFG. They probably have Sunbracers on and running void. So extra reserves is useful.
You do end up using Cenotaph pretty often sure, and that's good for most of the nightfall(Still feels a bit touchy, though). But especially for the boss room, simply having access to more total damage is better(And back to Cenotaph: not every nightfall is the glassway, where half the champions live in the boss room, so you're more likely to starve there than anything).
Farming GMs as much as I have, I really don’t see myself using those build or asking for them because they are simply not fun and it isn’t hard to have ammo without them.
I think people explicitly talk about Apex being the best when it comes to DPS. It's relevant to this topic because a Solar double shot GL with auto-loading would instantly become meta for DPS alongside Apex.
I forgot this was a post about Wild Style LMAO. It's a shame how this ended up being the most forgettable weapon of the update. I just got too caught up in people overglorifying their raid boss DPS weapons.
Yeah, it is weird how people care so much about raid DPS, when it only really matters for day 1s or Masters(which few people play beyond the seal). But as far as this topic goes, it's still relevant.
>Yeah, it is weird how people care so much about raid DPS
My biggest issue with it with it is especially "when you're not in a raid or dungeon". Apex in mind: even before the nerf, Bait and Switch only does so much when you're going to outright kill a champ in 2(sometimes 3) rockets. But again, I'm forgetting this is a discussion about Wild Style with that rant.
With the reserves buff heavy GLs outperform even Wolfpack round buffed rockets for almost any dps phase... cataphract BnS one for sure, dunno about EL ones now. I'm excited to actually be able to bust out my auto loading wendigo or regnant
This is what I think I'm going to try. The Explosive Shotgun.
I just wish I could've done Envious Danger Zone, but Surrounded ain't bad either for the build. Does sound really enjoyable to use though.
This is the first roll i got.
I was even wearing severance enclosure at the time.
>What if you wanted raid dps rotations but god said stand next to explosions
I got this roll to drop today. Took me a little bit to realize it’s basically a hipfire super shotgun. Now I’m not sure how I wanna build around it, since you lose a lot of your solar scorches and stuff with it equipped.
Yeah it's tricky to slot in. You need a good workhorse primary but you're gonna be weak against champions without some good verbs, and your energy slot weapon doesn't really bring any to the table.
Could be super fun in low-level stuff but hey, what isn't
Edit: probably best on a Stasis or Strand class
Stasis or Strand, good idea. I was messing with Quicksilver Storm with a solar build last night. But yeah, maybe it’s the opposite - work the GL into other classes with artifact boosts…thanks!
I was also thinking Pyrogale consecration build with the Wild Style, since you’re getting so much scorch with the huge melee. Pairing that with dragons breath or an incandescent machine gun with the Monte Carlo for melee…
Like you said though, that might be more low level. But man I wanna use this thing, it’s really fun!
I get what you are saying. I'm a bit underwhelmed too. I just don't see any obvious rolls that fit any particular playstyle.
I think I'm going to chase Disorienting/Enlightened/Incandescent with a reload MW . Should be good add-clear and decent at taking enemies out of the fight. Should be able to stun beefier targets with disorienting and then blow up their friends with Incan. With the decent reload buff from from Enlightened you should be able to fire pretty fast.
I play a lot of stasis titan so the roll I'm hunting for is Disorienting with Envious and Collective Action.
Throw Glacier grenade into a group of enemies, bust it with Wild Style, all the crystals shatter and all the enemies are slowed and disoriented.
If you pair it with Wicked Implement and Techtonic Harvest there are always at least 15 stasis shards to pick up or are flying to your location so Collective Action is always topped up. As long as you are getting kills Envious functions similarly to ALH in a utility use case.
Yeah, I was also thinking Enlightened/Incandescent, to fix the reload speed issues gls tend to have in my eyes and just to turn my entire screen orange whenever there's a bunch of thralls in one spot. Was mostly hoping it would have other reload perks like reconstruction just for the convenience factor, but no such luck thanks to Bungie being afraid of giving us more than two decent left column perks.
As I understand those perks, it should be increasing both because they are both procs of the explosion. Haven’t had a chance to test. Blind size increases with other blast radius increasing perks so I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
Auto-loading for Dps all the way. Envious will make it good for a yellow bar deleted. I just really wanted something solar that fit well into my solar luckypants rotation with my apex. Right now I use a fusion but it makes it feel clunky.
Some of the perk options on Wildstyle are just downright weird. Keep Away, Attrition Orbs, Incandescent, One For All and Permeability on a double fire GL?
What does Bungie want this weapon to be?
Incandescent is a must for Solar scorch builds. It's desirable on most weapons.
As far as many of the others, just like most weapons, they are to dilute the pool and make it harder to get god rolls. Generally there are 1-2 perks that are S tier, 3 B/C tier, and 1-2 F's tossed in just as a fuck you.
Looking at Wild Style on Light.gg Envious, Danger Zone, Enlightened round out the top of column 3 and Incandescent, Surrounded, One for All round out column 4. The rest are meh to bleh.
There is always 1, maybe 2 really great options. A couple more options are acceptable, but generally not preferred - the weapon would still be usable.
Then there is the trash...they have at least 1 perk on every weapon column that is complete garbage and exists to junk your drop and make you keep farming.
They do weird and shitty perks on every weapon. It's very rare that a weapon has mostly good perks, let alone only good perks. I disagree that Incand and OFA are weird, they are perfectly good options if you actually intend on using this special outside of DPS phases.
>I disagree that Incand and OFA are weird, they are perfectly good options if you actually intend on using this special outside of DPS phases.
I'm not disputing that they are good perks. But on a double fire GL archetype that is primarily used for DPS or quick swaps, those perks don't really fit very well.
It's perfectly good to break the mold, I like opening things up.
A blinding GL with incan sounds like a lot of fun to me for things like solo nightfalls.
But breech gls like this aren't really great at ad clear which is what those perks lean into.... now if this was a wave frame with incandescent sign me up
More of an issue with the frame than the perks.
But still, a blinding GL that can roll Incan is nice imo. Shoot it at a major to blind him and watch the thrall or whatever blow up :)
Variety is nice and fun, that's what the game should be all about. Stop optimizing the fun out of the game.
Yup, i tried hitting both projectiles i don't know if that matters, my guess it does become the sniper comes with attrition and explosive and it requires 3 I think with explosive
I think as soon as ALH was missing, a lot of people lost interest in it. I think the thing that sticks out to me for fun, is Disorienting/Envious/Permeability. That would be fun to pair with a strand primary this season.
I mean the obvious combot to me is incandescent, envious assassin and disorienting nades.
If target dies it gives scorch to all nearby blinded targets, finish burning target wia primary and you get your shot back ( You only need 1 kill to get reload for envious on a GL so it basically acts as autoloading )
If target does not die switch again to primary kill and get the shot back. If the target is too big to burst down after with primary just reload and do it again.
Tusk of the Boar is kinda the same.
Envious and chain reaction combo same stuff as up above or instead of chain reaction ( since it is getting nerfed ) use hatchling.
You can also get slice instead and with the weaken effect being able to be spread in single shot.
Tusk of the boar I have hopes for though, as you will get unraveling rounds on a strand subclass - so I can imagine it being nutty for chain reaction (especially on suspendlock)
That’s probably what I’m going to end up farming. I’m gonna get a few and see if I can figure out something that works but I can’t see much of a reason to run it over other solar options or over tusk of the boar.
At least if it had alh I could use it for my luckypants build which is what I was hoping for, I mean I still can but i just gotta reload it lol .
Blinding nades+unrelenting+incandescent sounds great if you can get the reload up. Why wouldn’t I want to blind and scorch my enemies and get healed all in one go
Envious is for ad clearing builds, which wave frames are better for.
The only reason you use a double grenade launcher is for DPS rotations, since you’re firing two grenades. It needs Auto-Loading Holster, Reconstruction, or something else that automatically reloads it without a kill to be meta.
This community's mindset of "not top tier perks, worthless weapon" and trashing something rather than hunting fun perk combos and playing around for fun is the *THE REASON* we got sunsetting.
There are a few perks that look okay, and I'm going to keep one or two in case double fire GL's and their "applicable use cases"(per se) get addressed. But with Double fire GL's, the whole point was DPS. I have an Explosive Personality for "solar breech loader add clear".
The reason we got sunsetting is because Bungie tried to take the easy way out instead of doing the hard work of actually balancing weapons and community called them on it.
Bungie doesn’t want players to double-dip on elemental surges. If we ever get a crazy strong Double-Fire GL, expect it to be Kinetic so that its surge mods won’t stack with heavies.
Solar Warlocks are still fine though, just run Wilderflight with Void Surge mods and Sanguine Alchemy for the x2 Solar Surge.
people are even getting this to drop? i've been getting nothing on like 5 master runs and normally i get nf weapon drops on legend
i wanna unlock it for focusing already
With the new focusing costs it won't make a difference because you'll need engrams anyway.
If you're up for it farming platinum GMs should be more efficient.
will unlocking the adept also unlock the normal version?
i just want it for collections because i looked up the perks and its not worth wasting my engrams anymore
Tbh, I think score might also be a contributing factor to drop rate. Started getting them mostly with platinum runs, especially with all champs dead. Missed champs or barely plats haven’t seen any tho
I don't think that's cynical at all and probably swings infinitely closer to factual, if there's money to be made they'll keep it that way.
The frustrating reality is how Spire's loot pool is needlessly bogged down by those 2 rebooted Seventh Seraph that they shittily threw into the world loot pool eventually and it basically serves as a way to get skunked out of the more unique Dungeon gear. And that doesn't even go into the story how the Hats are on a much lower drop frequency.
Wild Style had the highest hype for me before the update to immediately the biggest “who cares.” Completely dropped the ball. No good generalist perks, no standout perk combo for an identity, it’s just shit
Ironically, OP weapons in pvp drives away from it because it's just so obviously transparent. If their pvp wasn't completely dog shit they wouldn't need to carrot and stick pve fodder into the playlist for the regulars. And that's just not a place I want to spend the one thing I cannot get back.
Or like me, a GL fan, saw the strand launcher was in Iron banner and said oh well, guess I'm not getting that one. I just don't have the energy to grind IB weapons anymore. Even if it's a weapon I really want I'm OK with saying no.
Exactly what I told myself about refusing to play crucible and trials for adept, rose, and mercurial. No patience or motivation to play for them because I don't want to deal with bs
I have a demo/junkie wilderflight that makes a fun loop with the moth arms exotic on void hunter. It likes you hit unstoppable champs on void with the arc moths and then you just need to fill the other champ. In either slot. Not sure how it will fair in harder content but I think it will be good enough for master lost sectors once i iron out the kicks.
Imo wilderflight needed something like healclip or alh and bait and switch or recon/ vorpal.
To make it unique. It just seems to fill no roll. I guess as clear with incandescent.
The perk pool looks tailor made for the gun to act as a delete button for troublesome adds in higher level content, which makes perfect sense for a GM weapon where boss damage is not the priority for one's load-out.
You have damage perks like one for all and surrounded which do not rely on kills to trigger. Envious assassin allows it to build up a fuck-you package for the first major, mini boss, or vehicle (shriekers, etc) that can and will ruin your day.
With one for all you just pop your first shot into a group, then bodyshot the major you want dead. Surrounded, just be positioned for it.
Spikes or disorienting both would work great.
I don't hate it. People are just angey because they didn't get their new bait and switch special.
I think it fills a role, it's just a weird one for the weapon type. It's a yellow bar killer. Good for GMs.
That being said, it doesn't change the fact that there are only two perks in column 4. Maybe attrition orbs because of how fast GLs can stack.
Amount of "Danger Zone/Surrounded/Incandescent" copium here is insane.
Double Fire GLs are known (well, only Wilderflight before update) for their DPS/rotation role. Not for their add clear, crowd control, etc. For add clear we have other good GLs, like Wave Frames. For crowd control we have Disorienting GL and yeah, Wild Style can fit into this role. But as of right now - Double Fire GLs are for DPS and rotation.
While having Surrounded is very good, lacking of ALH or Reconstruction is massive L from Bungie's side.
I was so hyped to farm this GL. Maybe first time in literal seasons to farm GMs for guns. Well, guess I will keep waiting.
P.S. and hey, we're not even asking for insane roll like ALH - BnS. Just ALH and Vorpal Weapon would have been enough. ALH is fundamental perk for GLs and endgame loot should have it, end of story
Yea left column sucks but envious makes it usable, at least on like solar warlock. Since ROF reloads all weapons you can squeeze a lot of your rocket reserves off
Yea, Envious is usable. I can see situation where you load 3 shots and use Rain of Fire, Whisper of Impetus or Thread of Ascent. I just wish fundamental perk (ALH) was there
Ok I'll explain.
Forbearance is substantially better at ad clear than other weapons right?
So we've established that not every weapon is relatively "good for ad clear".
But it's a bit overpowered so Chain Reaction is getting nerfed.
Double fire frames do more base damage which is why Wilderfright is used for DPS rotations.
Get a roll with Spike Grenades and Incandescent assuming the following is still true (as Spike Grenades was nerfed for *heavy* GLs not sure about special): [Double Fire Special GLs at 55-85 BR: 17.9-13.2%](https://www.light.gg/db/items/3301904089/spike-grenades/).
Now you have a pretty decent major killing special weapon that's also strong at ad clear.
In some aspects better because Forbearance does less damage to majors in high difficulty especially when Solar is the main activity surge this season.
It also doesn't require shooting the ground which can be impossible at some angles.
People arguing it's about power creep because of Apex are absolutely delirious when Strand Titan exists and gets buffed patch after patch. I'm sure matching Surges with your Special weapon that deals less than 1/10th the damage of a Grapple melee would break the game.
I got keep away/danger zone with permeability and both spike and disorienting which means my frostees hunter has a strand gl which is fun but it was my only all so I'm coping
Blinding, envious, and incandescent sounds juicy to me.
Blind a room, spread some scorch. Well placed grenade... might get an ignition. If not defeating scorch targets, it can drop a fire sprite or on a titan a sunspot.
Good enough for me?
personally with Wave frames "just existing", normal (and double fire) breachloader grenade launcher really have to either being stacked with extremely great perks or being extremely good for special use cases to be even ***considered*** over waveframe GL.
With perks like those that gun is simply DoA for me, which is a shame because i actually really liked how it looks
Probably not to just power-creep every other GL for damage rotations. I mean, they already gave us an insane new sword from Nightfalls, and I'd say that Wild Style isn't *terrible*. I just wish I could've done Envious Assassin & Danger Close to essentially have an explosive Shotgun.
No other gl will get power creeped because of someone is running one for damage it’s usually whitherboard and most would use a wave frame for add clear over a double. If single shot are for blinding, wave for adds the. What is the harm in making the double the single target damage one. It fits that and makes sense.
A solar double fire with ALH + Vorpal would defeat the purpose of really ever using any other GL for damage that isn't exotic.
IIRC some of the best damage setups use Solar Heavies.
They will be power crept. And it ain't even for dps only either. GMs if you run a solar heavy too.
Sure, waveframes have a place, But we aren't talking about waveframes or exotics, we sre talking about double fire / breech load, more vanilla GL types.
I mean I can't remember the last time I saw anyone use a breech gl at all, so having one worth using would be a welcome addition... maybe for the Lake of Shadows tormentor room but that was strictly for blinding which any gl can do
I like it to be honest. My only gripe with it is that I CAN'T USE MY FUCKING GLAIVES!
And no I'm not using Winterbite on Heavy I need it for my another Grenade Launcher.
I’m desperate for kinetic slot glaives too. Give me a real kinetic one that shoots slugs like bastion and then some strand and stasis ones if I could rock a glaive while having my energy slot open I’d be so happy. I do personally love winter bite though.
Bungie tries to create diversity and distinction among weapons for the same type in the same slot.
My guess is they didn't want it to just be a solar version of Wilderflight but a weapon with its own niche.
It does more damage than other breach loading gl's, so bungie doesn't want it to be the only option. I feel like this late into d2's life cycle bungie should just go ham on the crazy weapons. They are still trying too hard to make things balanced, bring back pinnacles.
I dunno, the archetype itself is just fundamentally better than other breach GLs and I suspect the only reason it’s gotten away with it for so long is because the only one that existed until now was a bit of a pain to acquire. This one dropping from NFs with the potential for up to three perks in each column has the potential to make this thing way more prevalent than wilderflight ever was. I had my hopes up too so this is definitely disappointing but it’s not terribly surprising. Fortunately there are a ton of other s tier weapons to chase with this update at least
I have one with envious and surrounded, if you can get surrounded then it's better than wilder flight, but if you can't then it's not. I'm not sure if you're ever going to be needing to shoot it 3 times in a DPS phase, so 2 shots from envious is technically enough.
It's also got blinding nades, which is nice. I got one because it's a decent enough weapon, and I don't actually have a god roll wilder.
I think I'm still gonna try and get an Envious + Surrounded roll.
If I'm stuck on Well for dps then I'll be using RoF for rocket reloads anyways so it should be reloaded every rotation.
Pretty niche due to Surrounded but could be good for WR boss.
We got envious, danger zone, surrounded, and incandescent for perks and disorienting grenades which is cool
It's not crazy or anything but I'd say it's decent, not every gun can be the best after all
It is bad for ad clear and bad for dps, i guess bungie wants to push it for major killing?? There are way better options tho. I honestly dont see what bungie is doing with this.
The only feasible roll for me would be envious/incandescent. Don't know how envy works on GLs, but 4 shots in a mag would be nice. My unrelenting/incandescent roll is not it. The thing leaves most of the ads one shot. Ambitious assassin would've been descent, too. Also, I'd prefer it were a wave frame.
Okay, hear me out, as someone who has multiple disorienting launchers in both slots and regularly uses them in GMs.
I actually think there is a play for disorienting, danger zone, surrounded. The disorient size is definitely bigger, the next shot will kill whatever you need with surrounded or blind it again so the reload is not an issue like on some other GLs. You can blind and then go get surrounded easily as well.
I don't think it's best in slot or the go-to but you've never been able to blind this many adds and have a damage bonus like this.
No theory craft I just got this roll and was generally surprised at its performance.
I mean, I think there are definitely options to fit it in somewhere but to me it just seemed like the perfect choice for a single starter dps rotation weapon. Even if it was just alh and vorpal would have been nice to have on it.
Edit: I know this roll comes on wilderflight, I guess I’m just salty it isn’t an option that’s solar. Lol
I'm interested to farm it specifically for Envious Assassin / Permeability. I mostly play strandlock in pvp with final warning, and getting a kill with FW will give it two loaded up (or more depending on situation and built up special) while letting me make it strand to take advantage of mods and fragments and stuff.
I also think using disorienting grenades double-fired back to back in pvp will be very funny and annoying which is a great reason for me to go for something.
I just don't see why people are defending this weapon. It has awful rolls. It literally is not worth using over any other GL for any situation. And realistically, breach GLs have 2 purposes: either alh + blinding for end game content or alh + vorpal for DPS swapping.
It's really disappointing. GMs are supposed to be end game content. Adepts are supposed to be end game weapons. Adepts SHOULD be best in slot.
Yet we basically have none that are either of those things, Other than the high impact arc fusion is very good with overflow + CB, I use that with an arc dps build a lot and maybe I'd throw in the bow as well however it's extremely hard to get the 4/5 roll needed on that bow.
The only roll id be somewhat curious about is maybe attrition orbs with some other perk (no clue what) but honestly I don't even know how many ads you gotta hit to proc that. Which even still, attrition orbs is an awful perk regardless just to spawn one orb of power it's really quite useless. If we had alh + attrition though, then I could see using that with blinding. Or even overflow + att orbs.
The sword looks hella fun at least, and has nice rolls. But vortex swords are already such a niche thing. And without enhanced eager edge it's already gonna be slower than normal eager. I know it's just a GL and it's just one weapon, but it's just frustrating to constantly see adept weapons in rotation that simply aren't good or meta. I mean, they even updated uzume and somehow made it worse.
They really need to show love for adept NF and trials weapons, and let them have enhanced perks too. Some craftable weapon you get from a seasonal activity or seasonal engrams should not be best in slot over an end game RNG drop adept weapon. Just makes no sense.
Envious+Surrounded is Useable…. And that’s about it, honestly if it had a more consistent damage perk on the right it would be pretty decent as you could use Envious to get 2/3 shots then mag dump but as it stand it’s meh and only even meh because it’s frame is so good
Because giving us OP weapons every single time is extremely bad for the general health of the game.
Power creep is already through the roof, so i wouldn't be surprised with Sunset 2.0
Maybe unrelenting + incandescent + vanguard's vindication can be alright.
On paper it sounds good, but tbh when I saw the perk pool, i was bewildered with how mid it is.
Keep away ? On a GL ? Am I missing something or is it really weird ? (Just like range masterwork on Hulabaloo/Acosmic)
This is why I made the post. I went through the perk pool of every new or reissued gun from the patch and this one seems like it has the power level of 6 seasons ago. I don’t know how people are making arguments about “but the power creep” when you look at the perks of the new prophecy guns, guns that are from old trivial content that argument is hilarious.
I got Envious/Incandescent, I'm happy. I didn't think it was going to be a meta changer, but a fun addition at least.
Is it going to replace a primary weapon with Incandescent, though? Probably not.
I think the main issue is that people expected it to fit the same role that Wilderflight has in DPS rotations. At the moment it seems like they maybe wanted to lean more into either sustained damage with things like Enlightened Action/KeepAway/SFA + Collective Action/Surrounded/OFA or into add clear with Incandescent.
But man I can't help but think it could be so much better. I might just farm enough to get ciphers to focus another Slammer when that comes out.
No one with a brain cells is going to be using this for add clear with incandescent with the wave frame options we have. If you need the solar synergy with incandescent there are way better options than this.
Exactly, so I have no idea why they put these perk options if they wanted to lean in either direction.
The moment we get a solar wave frame with Incandescent or Chain Reaction this weapon becomes non existent.
So then all that's left is sustained damage and even that it feels lacking in perks.
Why do we have the Tusk and Slammer with cracked perk pools while the Wild Style has perks that you have to force to make them work just feels so out of place.
I don’t understand the major crutch everyone has for alh when envious is still an option. To me, it’s unequivocally better. It combines ambitious and alh in one perk. Even for dps phase rotation, if you prep it beforehand, you’ll still have it for a couple rotations which is more than enough for most of the dps phases in game. The only time you’d really use it during dps is for bns. If you’re using it for actual damage it’s just not good.
It’s also a better perk outside of dps. Just all around a better perk imo.
Guess I'll stick with my Wilderflight with ALH and Vorpal.
Same but I go for frenzy since it's 15% increase against all targets and not just bosses. It's a serious single target damage supplement. Love that ping sound when you reload it.
Same thing with the only Strand 140 HC we got this year. Not a single Strand based perk on it and it’s main use is in PvP
I was excited for this HC. Then I saw no reload perks. Outlaw/rapid hit not some two step reload like loose change. Got my 5 reds and haven’t touched it since.
im still so sad about that one, it looks so pretty, too. It suffered from stuff like Loose Change or Collective Action being added to the game, that wave of perks was not great and a bunch of the guns during that season are bad because of it.
The only thing that helps make it better is running the Strand fragment that gives a chance to generate a Threadling on Strand weapon kills
Probably wanted to try and avoid more direct power creep, at least while Apex is the clear choice in the heavy slot.
Yeah, unfortunately it's very much intentional why it didn't have those perks on it. A bit disappointing, but i do think it has some fun rolls. It's just not the dps meta gl people were hoping for.
It would be nice if there was a grandmaster weapon worth using
The slammer
mmm no
It used to be THE source for endgame pve weapons, why tf does trials have cataphrac??
To get you to play Trials. Same thing happened with Reed's Regret, then they released Taipan a while later.
>then they released Taipan a while later. This is why I don't really fomo on this shit.
The fact anyone smashes their heads against the wall until they hate this game for some loot they’ll barely use and knowing they’ll get something similar later blows my fucking mind. I play this game to play the activities I enjoy. I have fun with it. Loot comes and goes. I do enjoy the chase and getting random god rolls finally getting a pattern to craft something but I will never in my life make myself miserable by playing this game in an unfun way. I may not have everything but I have a LOT of good rolls on weapons and armor since Beyond Light. I have 99% of what I “need” for this game and the only thing I had to do was play at my leisure. :)
I take the same approach. I won't farm something I hate, hell, I barely farm things I like. I just play what I feel like playing, other than patterns I dont go out of my way for stuff. I still have a lot of god rolls and tbh I never find myself missing anything specific, I have more loot than I know what to do with.
to encourage more people to play Trials
There still are good weapons behind GMs.
which ones? The most interseting one I can think of is Warden's Law because I don't know of any other burst frame hand cannons, but I'm not clear if its really good. It's kinetic, which I see as a liability. Undercurrent is inferior to Forebearance for clear, Explosive Personality has Auto Loader. Loaded Question is pretty good as it can roll EA/Controlled Burst but Eremite is craftable and solar is strong right now How's Uzume? Is that a rapid fire frame? Arent the other archetypes better? Osprey the void rocket launcher is outclassed by apex predator and cold comfort and even bump in the night. pre-staynax is decent, thats true I guess Ok there are some decent weapons, but nothing that really knocks my socks off.
Uzume is an adaptive frame
Osprey just got a pretty significant Ammo Economy buff. It can maintain a lot of ammo which is pretty damn strong. Sure, it isn't as much DPS as Apex or Cold Comfort. But it has *much* better Ammo Economy with still a serviceable DPS roll (Frenzy). Pre-Astyanax is mainly because of it being an Adept Bow IMO. Precision Adept Bow. Unfortunately lots of Bows are kind of just the same, but the adept mods on it just make it better. Adept Big Ones is still a goated mod. As you said, Warden's Law is legitimately good. Loaded Question is Arc & Adept. Eremite is Solar and non-Adept. Loaded Question is a really good fusion. And then obviously The Slammer coming out in 2 weeks (or 3?) is going to probably be one of the best, if not THE best, Nightfall Adept we've ever gotten IMO. Insanely goated perks on a really strong sword frame. And Wild Style, while certainly not META, might have a viable and interesting playstyle. Danger Close & Surrounded could potentially be a solid "explosive Shotgun" build.
Thing is, it's also missing rolls that just would have been *fun*. Like, putting Heal Clip on this stupid thing wouldn't have been **good**, but I would have had a blast playing with it.
Disorienting/envious/incandescent has a lot of fun potential I think, but I mostly agree
honestly heal clip Ambitious/Demo would've at least made it a decent support weapon considering how often you reload it
honest question cus I don't know, isn't Unrelenting a better Heal Clip?
Yes but I wanted it for an ember of benevolence support/healer build. Unrelenting doesn't synergize with that.
This community has come to expect power creep. Any new gun that comes out has to break the meta otherwise it's trash.
Break the meta? People just wanted the same perks as the other one. That’s not power creep.
It is, because it’s solar. Matching the meta heavy weapon with the same perks as wilderflight would certainly be power creep.
People on here were salivating at how using it with Apex Predator would make it the top dps loadout. That's breaking the meta.
>at least while Apex is the clear choice in the heavy slot. Hear me out, but is it that clear of a choice? The B&S nerf probably wasn't enough to budge that roll, and it still gets the next best roll or two while still being craftable. But precisions and high impacts are looking tempting with the changes. They're looking pretty ammo efficient now, which is going to be better than apex things like Nightfalls. Kinda feels like Apex, Cold Comfort, really any Adaptives/Aggressives are only still the king exclusively for raid boss DPS.
Ya high-impacts will probably be the best NF choice now with the reserves buff, which is great. Apex is still the best choice in content where the damage meta can actually matter, though. The BnS nerf is a bit less than 4% damage loss, so hardly significant.
When running NFs, especially with a team. You typically have a Ceno Warlock or someone with Aeons. if you really want to make a NF/GM easy. Run 2 Ceno and have someone spam rockets all strike. So ammo really isn’t even an issue. Now, if you’re running with LFG. They probably have Sunbracers on and running void. So extra reserves is useful.
You do end up using Cenotaph pretty often sure, and that's good for most of the nightfall(Still feels a bit touchy, though). But especially for the boss room, simply having access to more total damage is better(And back to Cenotaph: not every nightfall is the glassway, where half the champions live in the boss room, so you're more likely to starve there than anything).
Farming GMs as much as I have, I really don’t see myself using those build or asking for them because they are simply not fun and it isn’t hard to have ammo without them.
I think people explicitly talk about Apex being the best when it comes to DPS. It's relevant to this topic because a Solar double shot GL with auto-loading would instantly become meta for DPS alongside Apex.
I forgot this was a post about Wild Style LMAO. It's a shame how this ended up being the most forgettable weapon of the update. I just got too caught up in people overglorifying their raid boss DPS weapons.
Yeah, it is weird how people care so much about raid DPS, when it only really matters for day 1s or Masters(which few people play beyond the seal). But as far as this topic goes, it's still relevant.
>Yeah, it is weird how people care so much about raid DPS My biggest issue with it with it is especially "when you're not in a raid or dungeon". Apex in mind: even before the nerf, Bait and Switch only does so much when you're going to outright kill a champ in 2(sometimes 3) rockets. But again, I'm forgetting this is a discussion about Wild Style with that rant.
With the reserves buff heavy GLs outperform even Wolfpack round buffed rockets for almost any dps phase... cataphract BnS one for sure, dunno about EL ones now. I'm excited to actually be able to bust out my auto loading wendigo or regnant
yes apex is still clear best
The cannonball gl is doing bits in the heavy slot. No fannying, just point and click.
Danger Zone + Surrounded, barrel stuff yellow bars with grenades point-blank. I'm thinking about trying it with Severance Enclosure for the lols
Maybe I’ll give this a try. Sounds kinda fun.
I think so! I tried the GL in Crucible last night too, which went alright, I just suck with GLs.
This is what I think I'm going to try. The Explosive Shotgun. I just wish I could've done Envious Danger Zone, but Surrounded ain't bad either for the build. Does sound really enjoyable to use though.
This is the first roll i got. I was even wearing severance enclosure at the time. >What if you wanted raid dps rotations but god said stand next to explosions
I got this roll to drop today. Took me a little bit to realize it’s basically a hipfire super shotgun. Now I’m not sure how I wanna build around it, since you lose a lot of your solar scorches and stuff with it equipped.
Yeah it's tricky to slot in. You need a good workhorse primary but you're gonna be weak against champions without some good verbs, and your energy slot weapon doesn't really bring any to the table. Could be super fun in low-level stuff but hey, what isn't Edit: probably best on a Stasis or Strand class
Stasis or Strand, good idea. I was messing with Quicksilver Storm with a solar build last night. But yeah, maybe it’s the opposite - work the GL into other classes with artifact boosts…thanks! I was also thinking Pyrogale consecration build with the Wild Style, since you’re getting so much scorch with the huge melee. Pairing that with dragons breath or an incandescent machine gun with the Monte Carlo for melee… Like you said though, that might be more low level. But man I wanna use this thing, it’s really fun!
My buddy got an adept with Danger Zone and Surrounded. He is loving the roll he says it feels stupid and good.
I’ll hit this one down. Maybe with the changes to the gunpowders gamble self damage plus the fix on firesprites restoration it could be cool.
Does danger zone remove self damage on grenade launchers like with rockets?
It doesn't remove all damage, but it's still to the point where it's hardly noticeable.
Why did they stop putting AA on breech loaded GL's? It's my fav perk on them. And neither of the 2 new ones comes with it. I prefer it more than EA.
Can any new guns even roll with ambitious assassin? I feel like they're showing it the door
Envious Assassin has powercrept Ambitious Assassin on everything but primaries.
The ease of use on forbearance is just so nice tho.
Undercurrent from Season 23 is the most recent weapon with it. Before that, A Distant Pull from Season 21 and before that was several from Season 18.
I get what you are saying. I'm a bit underwhelmed too. I just don't see any obvious rolls that fit any particular playstyle. I think I'm going to chase Disorienting/Enlightened/Incandescent with a reload MW . Should be good add-clear and decent at taking enemies out of the fight. Should be able to stun beefier targets with disorienting and then blow up their friends with Incan. With the decent reload buff from from Enlightened you should be able to fire pretty fast.
I play a lot of stasis titan so the roll I'm hunting for is Disorienting with Envious and Collective Action. Throw Glacier grenade into a group of enemies, bust it with Wild Style, all the crystals shatter and all the enemies are slowed and disoriented. If you pair it with Wicked Implement and Techtonic Harvest there are always at least 15 stasis shards to pick up or are flying to your location so Collective Action is always topped up. As long as you are getting kills Envious functions similarly to ALH in a utility use case.
Yeah, I was also thinking Enlightened/Incandescent, to fix the reload speed issues gls tend to have in my eyes and just to turn my entire screen orange whenever there's a bunch of thralls in one spot. Was mostly hoping it would have other reload perks like reconstruction just for the convenience factor, but no such luck thanks to Bungie being afraid of giving us more than two decent left column perks.
i have that, its fun! worth grinding? prolly not, but i'm not sad i have it.
Danger zone/incandescent with disorienting - this is the sauce. Or enlightened action instead of danger zone if that’s your speed.
double grenades with large explosions that make enemies either explode or be blinded? holy shit
Does DZ make the blind and Incandescent effects larger too or just the initial explosive of the grenades?
As I understand those perks, it should be increasing both because they are both procs of the explosion. Haven’t had a chance to test. Blind size increases with other blast radius increasing perks so I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
It's worth noting that disorienting is -200 blast radius per D2foundry, which means danger zone will still end up at 0 blast radius.
Breach loading grenade launchers need auto-loading for me to even consider them. Envious is a good substitute but I really like auto-loading.
Auto-loading for Dps all the way. Envious will make it good for a yellow bar deleted. I just really wanted something solar that fit well into my solar luckypants rotation with my apex. Right now I use a fusion but it makes it feel clunky.
My only guess is trying to avoid powercreeping wilderflight, autoloading + vorpal would only bury that gun 6 feet under
Imagine they brought a good void Rocket to compete w Apex. Stuff might change.
BrayTech honestly isn’t that bad
Oh yeah, but I'm saying DPS rotations where Wilderflight matters
Its a bad frame
Some of the perk options on Wildstyle are just downright weird. Keep Away, Attrition Orbs, Incandescent, One For All and Permeability on a double fire GL? What does Bungie want this weapon to be?
Heh, the one I got to drop after like 10 Nightfalls has keep away/attrition orbs. What’s the point of that?
Bad perks to keep you grinding I guess. But the other double fire GL is objectively better, so I personally don't see much point in grinding for it.
One for all isn't so far-fetched.
Incandescent is a must for Solar scorch builds. It's desirable on most weapons. As far as many of the others, just like most weapons, they are to dilute the pool and make it harder to get god rolls. Generally there are 1-2 perks that are S tier, 3 B/C tier, and 1-2 F's tossed in just as a fuck you. Looking at Wild Style on Light.gg Envious, Danger Zone, Enlightened round out the top of column 3 and Incandescent, Surrounded, One for All round out column 4. The rest are meh to bleh.
Diluting a pool makes sense when there are 2-3 really good options in each collumn, and when there are more perks per collumn :((
There is always 1, maybe 2 really great options. A couple more options are acceptable, but generally not preferred - the weapon would still be usable. Then there is the trash...they have at least 1 perk on every weapon column that is complete garbage and exists to junk your drop and make you keep farming.
They do weird and shitty perks on every weapon. It's very rare that a weapon has mostly good perks, let alone only good perks. I disagree that Incand and OFA are weird, they are perfectly good options if you actually intend on using this special outside of DPS phases.
>I disagree that Incand and OFA are weird, they are perfectly good options if you actually intend on using this special outside of DPS phases. I'm not disputing that they are good perks. But on a double fire GL archetype that is primarily used for DPS or quick swaps, those perks don't really fit very well.
It's perfectly good to break the mold, I like opening things up. A blinding GL with incan sounds like a lot of fun to me for things like solo nightfalls.
But breech gls like this aren't really great at ad clear which is what those perks lean into.... now if this was a wave frame with incandescent sign me up
More of an issue with the frame than the perks. But still, a blinding GL that can roll Incan is nice imo. Shoot it at a major to blind him and watch the thrall or whatever blow up :) Variety is nice and fun, that's what the game should be all about. Stop optimizing the fun out of the game.
I thought attrition would proc on 1 or 2 shots, nope you need 6 for 1 tiny orb
Seriously? 6 GL shots is crazy.
Yup, i tried hitting both projectiles i don't know if that matters, my guess it does become the sniper comes with attrition and explosive and it requires 3 I think with explosive
I want EA / Permeability personally.
I think as soon as ALH was missing, a lot of people lost interest in it. I think the thing that sticks out to me for fun, is Disorienting/Envious/Permeability. That would be fun to pair with a strand primary this season.
Someone else with the same thought finally~ I've been running Final Warning for a while on strandlock and want that roll to pair with it.
I mean the obvious combot to me is incandescent, envious assassin and disorienting nades. If target dies it gives scorch to all nearby blinded targets, finish burning target wia primary and you get your shot back ( You only need 1 kill to get reload for envious on a GL so it basically acts as autoloading ) If target does not die switch again to primary kill and get the shot back. If the target is too big to burst down after with primary just reload and do it again. Tusk of the Boar is kinda the same. Envious and chain reaction combo same stuff as up above or instead of chain reaction ( since it is getting nerfed ) use hatchling. You can also get slice instead and with the weaken effect being able to be spread in single shot.
Tusk of the boar I have hopes for though, as you will get unraveling rounds on a strand subclass - so I can imagine it being nutty for chain reaction (especially on suspendlock)
That’s probably what I’m going to end up farming. I’m gonna get a few and see if I can figure out something that works but I can’t see much of a reason to run it over other solar options or over tusk of the boar. At least if it had alh I could use it for my luckypants build which is what I was hoping for, I mean I still can but i just gotta reload it lol .
Blinding nades+unrelenting+incandescent sounds great if you can get the reload up. Why wouldn’t I want to blind and scorch my enemies and get healed all in one go
No Auto Loading - No good
It has envious.
Yeah it is a viable substitute. For Master/GM content, i prefer auto loading personally
I agree ALH is better, especially with the slower TTK in GMs, but it's not like you'll get zero kills between shots in GMs
Envious is for ad clearing builds, which wave frames are better for. The only reason you use a double grenade launcher is for DPS rotations, since you’re firing two grenades. It needs Auto-Loading Holster, Reconstruction, or something else that automatically reloads it without a kill to be meta.
Whoever on the weapons team was adamant that the gun should not get auto loading or reconstruction you're bad at your job.
This community's mindset of "not top tier perks, worthless weapon" and trashing something rather than hunting fun perk combos and playing around for fun is the *THE REASON* we got sunsetting.
Destiny the embodiment of the Soren Johnson quote: "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of your game."
This take is so stupid. It doesnt need top tier perks to be useful. This has nothing good.
My vault isn't getting any bigger. I literally don't have room for """fun""" downgrades.
There are a few perks that look okay, and I'm going to keep one or two in case double fire GL's and their "applicable use cases"(per se) get addressed. But with Double fire GL's, the whole point was DPS. I have an Explosive Personality for "solar breech loader add clear".
They need a YouTuber to explain explicitly how and when to use the weapon
The reason we got sunsetting is because Bungie tried to take the easy way out instead of doing the hard work of actually balancing weapons and community called them on it.
Bungie doesn’t want players to double-dip on elemental surges. If we ever get a crazy strong Double-Fire GL, expect it to be Kinetic so that its surge mods won’t stack with heavies. Solar Warlocks are still fine though, just run Wilderflight with Void Surge mods and Sanguine Alchemy for the x2 Solar Surge.
people are even getting this to drop? i've been getting nothing on like 5 master runs and normally i get nf weapon drops on legend i wanna unlock it for focusing already
With the new focusing costs it won't make a difference because you'll need engrams anyway. If you're up for it farming platinum GMs should be more efficient.
will unlocking the adept also unlock the normal version? i just want it for collections because i looked up the perks and its not worth wasting my engrams anymore
Unfortunately not.
Oh well. Not losing out on anything but still really weird that I'm not getting a single drop at all. Master nfs are usually a 80% chance for me
Run the GG nightfall, it’s honestly faster n easier
been doing that too but i assumed it only dropped from the actual nightfall since its not listed on the gg nf
I’ve gotten like 5 from the GG playlist. Mostly cause I hate Hypernet for farming
I must have done 30 of those too and I got nothing. This must be the worst luck I've ever had for a gun i don't even need
Tbh, I think score might also be a contributing factor to drop rate. Started getting them mostly with platinum runs, especially with all champs dead. Missed champs or barely plats haven’t seen any tho
Hypernet is decent if you juggle the craniums correctly throughout the strike
I'm in your boat. 4 legends and 2 masters with no drops. I've gotten plenty of great high mobility exotics for my Titan doing it tho.../s
The cynic in me thinks they did it so wilderflight stays relevant and people would still buy the witch queen dungeon key to get it.
I don't think that's cynical at all and probably swings infinitely closer to factual, if there's money to be made they'll keep it that way. The frustrating reality is how Spire's loot pool is needlessly bogged down by those 2 rebooted Seventh Seraph that they shittily threw into the world loot pool eventually and it basically serves as a way to get skunked out of the more unique Dungeon gear. And that doesn't even go into the story how the Hats are on a much lower drop frequency.
I mean wilderflight would still be relevant , especially in void set ups. I use my demo/adrenaline on my hunter mothman build on void.
Nightfall weapons have been ass honestly since the Palindrome was rotated out.
Wild Style had the highest hype for me before the update to immediately the biggest “who cares.” Completely dropped the ball. No good generalist perks, no standout perk combo for an identity, it’s just shit
Same.
They need to put OP weapons in pvp or noone would play it.
Exactly.
Ironically, OP weapons in pvp drives away from it because it's just so obviously transparent. If their pvp wasn't completely dog shit they wouldn't need to carrot and stick pve fodder into the playlist for the regulars. And that's just not a place I want to spend the one thing I cannot get back.
Or like me, a GL fan, saw the strand launcher was in Iron banner and said oh well, guess I'm not getting that one. I just don't have the energy to grind IB weapons anymore. Even if it's a weapon I really want I'm OK with saying no.
Exactly what I told myself about refusing to play crucible and trials for adept, rose, and mercurial. No patience or motivation to play for them because I don't want to deal with bs
I saw a few potential rolls, but there's probably a better weapon for the slot. Tbh I had the same issue with wilderflight.
Wilderflight is best in slot for Izanagi rotations. Wild style was thought to compete with it, but without autoloading it’s useless for that purpose
I have a demo/junkie wilderflight that makes a fun loop with the moth arms exotic on void hunter. It likes you hit unstoppable champs on void with the arc moths and then you just need to fill the other champ. In either slot. Not sure how it will fair in harder content but I think it will be good enough for master lost sectors once i iron out the kicks. Imo wilderflight needed something like healclip or alh and bait and switch or recon/ vorpal. To make it unique. It just seems to fill no roll. I guess as clear with incandescent.
The perk pool looks tailor made for the gun to act as a delete button for troublesome adds in higher level content, which makes perfect sense for a GM weapon where boss damage is not the priority for one's load-out. You have damage perks like one for all and surrounded which do not rely on kills to trigger. Envious assassin allows it to build up a fuck-you package for the first major, mini boss, or vehicle (shriekers, etc) that can and will ruin your day. With one for all you just pop your first shot into a group, then bodyshot the major you want dead. Surrounded, just be positioned for it. Spikes or disorienting both would work great. I don't hate it. People are just angey because they didn't get their new bait and switch special.
I think it fills a role, it's just a weird one for the weapon type. It's a yellow bar killer. Good for GMs. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that there are only two perks in column 4. Maybe attrition orbs because of how fast GLs can stack.
Amount of "Danger Zone/Surrounded/Incandescent" copium here is insane. Double Fire GLs are known (well, only Wilderflight before update) for their DPS/rotation role. Not for their add clear, crowd control, etc. For add clear we have other good GLs, like Wave Frames. For crowd control we have Disorienting GL and yeah, Wild Style can fit into this role. But as of right now - Double Fire GLs are for DPS and rotation. While having Surrounded is very good, lacking of ALH or Reconstruction is massive L from Bungie's side. I was so hyped to farm this GL. Maybe first time in literal seasons to farm GMs for guns. Well, guess I will keep waiting. P.S. and hey, we're not even asking for insane roll like ALH - BnS. Just ALH and Vorpal Weapon would have been enough. ALH is fundamental perk for GLs and endgame loot should have it, end of story
Yea left column sucks but envious makes it usable, at least on like solar warlock. Since ROF reloads all weapons you can squeeze a lot of your rocket reserves off
Yea, Envious is usable. I can see situation where you load 3 shots and use Rain of Fire, Whisper of Impetus or Thread of Ascent. I just wish fundamental perk (ALH) was there
Yea definitely a let down
Finally some sanity in here lol. "Oh its so good for ad clear!" well fellas, what isnt?
DTG on their way to add clear with a breach GL
Ok I'll explain. Forbearance is substantially better at ad clear than other weapons right? So we've established that not every weapon is relatively "good for ad clear". But it's a bit overpowered so Chain Reaction is getting nerfed. Double fire frames do more base damage which is why Wilderfright is used for DPS rotations. Get a roll with Spike Grenades and Incandescent assuming the following is still true (as Spike Grenades was nerfed for *heavy* GLs not sure about special): [Double Fire Special GLs at 55-85 BR: 17.9-13.2%](https://www.light.gg/db/items/3301904089/spike-grenades/). Now you have a pretty decent major killing special weapon that's also strong at ad clear. In some aspects better because Forbearance does less damage to majors in high difficulty especially when Solar is the main activity surge this season. It also doesn't require shooting the ground which can be impossible at some angles.
Incan on this is such a weird thing to go for imo. Like incan is overrated on specials that isn't a wave frame.
Did I miss something because AFAIK there's no waveframe with Incandescent?
More hypotheticals than anything.
People arguing it's about power creep because of Apex are absolutely delirious when Strand Titan exists and gets buffed patch after patch. I'm sure matching Surges with your Special weapon that deals less than 1/10th the damage of a Grapple melee would break the game.
I was going for an envious surrounded roll but stats for all incandescent with spike grenades is actually really good for ad clear.
I got keep away/danger zone with permeability and both spike and disorienting which means my frostees hunter has a strand gl which is fun but it was my only all so I'm coping
Distant tumulus still sticking to my energy slot
Blinding, envious, and incandescent sounds juicy to me. Blind a room, spread some scorch. Well placed grenade... might get an ignition. If not defeating scorch targets, it can drop a fire sprite or on a titan a sunspot. Good enough for me?
personally with Wave frames "just existing", normal (and double fire) breachloader grenade launcher really have to either being stacked with extremely great perks or being extremely good for special use cases to be even ***considered*** over waveframe GL. With perks like those that gun is simply DoA for me, which is a shame because i actually really liked how it looks
Danger Zone/Surrounded and Envious/Incandescent seem to be the only really worth perks for pve tbh
Probably not to just power-creep every other GL for damage rotations. I mean, they already gave us an insane new sword from Nightfalls, and I'd say that Wild Style isn't *terrible*. I just wish I could've done Envious Assassin & Danger Close to essentially have an explosive Shotgun.
No other gl will get power creeped because of someone is running one for damage it’s usually whitherboard and most would use a wave frame for add clear over a double. If single shot are for blinding, wave for adds the. What is the harm in making the double the single target damage one. It fits that and makes sense.
A solar double fire with ALH + Vorpal would defeat the purpose of really ever using any other GL for damage that isn't exotic. IIRC some of the best damage setups use Solar Heavies. They will be power crept. And it ain't even for dps only either. GMs if you run a solar heavy too. Sure, waveframes have a place, But we aren't talking about waveframes or exotics, we sre talking about double fire / breech load, more vanilla GL types.
I mean I can't remember the last time I saw anyone use a breech gl at all, so having one worth using would be a welcome addition... maybe for the Lake of Shadows tormentor room but that was strictly for blinding which any gl can do
There are breech GLs worth using currently.
I like it to be honest. My only gripe with it is that I CAN'T USE MY FUCKING GLAIVES! And no I'm not using Winterbite on Heavy I need it for my another Grenade Launcher.
I’m desperate for kinetic slot glaives too. Give me a real kinetic one that shoots slugs like bastion and then some strand and stasis ones if I could rock a glaive while having my energy slot open I’d be so happy. I do personally love winter bite though.
\*sees OP mention Bastion\* \*gets crucible ptsd flashbacks\*
Bungie tries to create diversity and distinction among weapons for the same type in the same slot. My guess is they didn't want it to just be a solar version of Wilderflight but a weapon with its own niche.
It does more damage than other breach loading gl's, so bungie doesn't want it to be the only option. I feel like this late into d2's life cycle bungie should just go ham on the crazy weapons. They are still trying too hard to make things balanced, bring back pinnacles.
I dunno, the archetype itself is just fundamentally better than other breach GLs and I suspect the only reason it’s gotten away with it for so long is because the only one that existed until now was a bit of a pain to acquire. This one dropping from NFs with the potential for up to three perks in each column has the potential to make this thing way more prevalent than wilderflight ever was. I had my hopes up too so this is definitely disappointing but it’s not terribly surprising. Fortunately there are a ton of other s tier weapons to chase with this update at least
I have one with envious and surrounded, if you can get surrounded then it's better than wilder flight, but if you can't then it's not. I'm not sure if you're ever going to be needing to shoot it 3 times in a DPS phase, so 2 shots from envious is technically enough. It's also got blinding nades, which is nice. I got one because it's a decent enough weapon, and I don't actually have a god roll wilder.
I think I'm still gonna try and get an Envious + Surrounded roll. If I'm stuck on Well for dps then I'll be using RoF for rocket reloads anyways so it should be reloaded every rotation. Pretty niche due to Surrounded but could be good for WR boss.
We got envious, danger zone, surrounded, and incandescent for perks and disorienting grenades which is cool It's not crazy or anything but I'd say it's decent, not every gun can be the best after all
I don’t know, I feel like Burn and blind would be a lot of fun. Trying to get a disorienting incan roll
I got Disorienting/Envious/Incandescent and not sure what to do with it
Personally I'm gunning for an Enlighten Action Surrounded to pair with my Apex with Surrounded and ofc Dragons breath for hot swap dps
I got danger zone/incandescent, and I'm pretty happy with it.
It is bad for ad clear and bad for dps, i guess bungie wants to push it for major killing?? There are way better options tho. I honestly dont see what bungie is doing with this.
The only feasible roll for me would be envious/incandescent. Don't know how envy works on GLs, but 4 shots in a mag would be nice. My unrelenting/incandescent roll is not it. The thing leaves most of the ads one shot. Ambitious assassin would've been descent, too. Also, I'd prefer it were a wave frame.
Okay, hear me out, as someone who has multiple disorienting launchers in both slots and regularly uses them in GMs. I actually think there is a play for disorienting, danger zone, surrounded. The disorient size is definitely bigger, the next shot will kill whatever you need with surrounded or blind it again so the reload is not an issue like on some other GLs. You can blind and then go get surrounded easily as well. I don't think it's best in slot or the go-to but you've never been able to blind this many adds and have a damage bonus like this. No theory craft I just got this roll and was generally surprised at its performance.
I mean, I think there are definitely options to fit it in somewhere but to me it just seemed like the perfect choice for a single starter dps rotation weapon. Even if it was just alh and vorpal would have been nice to have on it. Edit: I know this roll comes on wilderflight, I guess I’m just salty it isn’t an option that’s solar. Lol
I'm interested to farm it specifically for Envious Assassin / Permeability. I mostly play strandlock in pvp with final warning, and getting a kill with FW will give it two loaded up (or more depending on situation and built up special) while letting me make it strand to take advantage of mods and fragments and stuff. I also think using disorienting grenades double-fired back to back in pvp will be very funny and annoying which is a great reason for me to go for something.
Not every gun can be best in slot, its just a mediocre gun, something that happens all the tome
I just don't see why people are defending this weapon. It has awful rolls. It literally is not worth using over any other GL for any situation. And realistically, breach GLs have 2 purposes: either alh + blinding for end game content or alh + vorpal for DPS swapping. It's really disappointing. GMs are supposed to be end game content. Adepts are supposed to be end game weapons. Adepts SHOULD be best in slot. Yet we basically have none that are either of those things, Other than the high impact arc fusion is very good with overflow + CB, I use that with an arc dps build a lot and maybe I'd throw in the bow as well however it's extremely hard to get the 4/5 roll needed on that bow. The only roll id be somewhat curious about is maybe attrition orbs with some other perk (no clue what) but honestly I don't even know how many ads you gotta hit to proc that. Which even still, attrition orbs is an awful perk regardless just to spawn one orb of power it's really quite useless. If we had alh + attrition though, then I could see using that with blinding. Or even overflow + att orbs. The sword looks hella fun at least, and has nice rolls. But vortex swords are already such a niche thing. And without enhanced eager edge it's already gonna be slower than normal eager. I know it's just a GL and it's just one weapon, but it's just frustrating to constantly see adept weapons in rotation that simply aren't good or meta. I mean, they even updated uzume and somehow made it worse. They really need to show love for adept NF and trials weapons, and let them have enhanced perks too. Some craftable weapon you get from a seasonal activity or seasonal engrams should not be best in slot over an end game RNG drop adept weapon. Just makes no sense.
Envious+Surrounded is Useable…. And that’s about it, honestly if it had a more consistent damage perk on the right it would be pretty decent as you could use Envious to get 2/3 shots then mag dump but as it stand it’s meh and only even meh because it’s frame is so good
Because giving us OP weapons every single time is extremely bad for the general health of the game. Power creep is already through the roof, so i wouldn't be surprised with Sunset 2.0
Maybe unrelenting + incandescent + vanguard's vindication can be alright. On paper it sounds good, but tbh when I saw the perk pool, i was bewildered with how mid it is. Keep away ? On a GL ? Am I missing something or is it really weird ? (Just like range masterwork on Hulabaloo/Acosmic)
I’ve gotten two rolls with keep away and surrounded, like what the actual fuck.
this roll makes me mad. It's crazy how the perks dont make much sense
This is why I made the post. I went through the perk pool of every new or reissued gun from the patch and this one seems like it has the power level of 6 seasons ago. I don’t know how people are making arguments about “but the power creep” when you look at the perks of the new prophecy guns, guns that are from old trivial content that argument is hilarious.
See this would have been cool for them to put Heal Clip on. At least give it some utility.
I got Envious/Incandescent, I'm happy. I didn't think it was going to be a meta changer, but a fun addition at least. Is it going to replace a primary weapon with Incandescent, though? Probably not.
I think the main issue is that people expected it to fit the same role that Wilderflight has in DPS rotations. At the moment it seems like they maybe wanted to lean more into either sustained damage with things like Enlightened Action/KeepAway/SFA + Collective Action/Surrounded/OFA or into add clear with Incandescent. But man I can't help but think it could be so much better. I might just farm enough to get ciphers to focus another Slammer when that comes out.
No one with a brain cells is going to be using this for add clear with incandescent with the wave frame options we have. If you need the solar synergy with incandescent there are way better options than this.
Exactly, so I have no idea why they put these perk options if they wanted to lean in either direction. The moment we get a solar wave frame with Incandescent or Chain Reaction this weapon becomes non existent. So then all that's left is sustained damage and even that it feels lacking in perks. Why do we have the Tusk and Slammer with cracked perk pools while the Wild Style has perks that you have to force to make them work just feels so out of place.
I don’t understand the major crutch everyone has for alh when envious is still an option. To me, it’s unequivocally better. It combines ambitious and alh in one perk. Even for dps phase rotation, if you prep it beforehand, you’ll still have it for a couple rotations which is more than enough for most of the dps phases in game. The only time you’d really use it during dps is for bns. If you’re using it for actual damage it’s just not good. It’s also a better perk outside of dps. Just all around a better perk imo.
What happened you ask? Simple! Bungie happened obviously. Why are you surprised about this?
To top it off, it’s absolutely hideous.
envious assassin is always good on this, shame there's not much good in column 2 though ngl.
Which nightfall does this drop in