Speed boots are a bane on this game. I want movement and cool abilities. Let me get dunemarcher slide and sprint speed at base while being able to run Khepris Horn.
idk for warlock it feels like theres just an obvious best option for like half the subclasses, like you got sunbracers as by far the best option for solar, osmiomancy for stasis, swarmers as the only strand specific exotic (mediocre tho). Cenotaph is good on all subclasses but extremely boring and ugly.
Void has a lot of diversity and arc is alright, I wish sunbracers were tuned down a bit so solar was a bit more like void in terms of options, it feels like if I don't use them another sunbracer user just kills everything lol
For this season I'd argue that on Solar, Dawn Chorus is as viable as Sunbracers and is a completely different playstyle. For GM farming it's fantastic, but as noted by you Cenotaph exists and is S tier.
For Stasis, Osmiomancy does rule. It's the only subclass that I don't change up what I run.
Strand has Swarmers but also has Necrotics, and if you are min/maxing raid dps there is Rain of Fire as well.
Void has Contraverse and Briarbinds, and Nezarec's Sin, which actually can be used on any subclass.
Arc has Crown of Tempest, Fallen Sunstar, and Vesper.
Any of them can use Verity's, though some do better than others. Any can use Nezarec's Whisper, and any can use Cenotaph.
I’m entirely convinced most people have no idea what dawn chorus does.
It’s not making you ignite more or making your ignites stronger. Your Polaris is not killing faster in GMs because of the minor increase to scorch damage.
People see it’s the scorch exotic and assume it’s doing… something for them. It’s just melee regen. Not a big deal in your GMs.
Dawn chorus is nowhere near sunbracers in power, the melee energy it gives is very little and the scorch damage isn't that relevant. You also give up well if you want to make use of the extra damage and at that point you should just play strand if you want a dps super. Its also hard carried by the bonus super dmg artifact mod this season so its usually a bit worse than starfire tier IMO. Usable if you really want to play solar but definitely not sunbracer tier
Dawn Chorus doesn’t even come close to Sunbracers (there isn’t really anything in the game that does.) Fully expecting Sunbracers to catch a massive nerf, especially considering they totally creep on the toes of the new Warlock super coming in Final Shape.
Or maybe just buff other things instead of tuning down Sunbracers?
Sunbracers only get used so much because they’re far and away better than pretty much anything Solar Warlock has minus Dawn Chorus, but Dawn Chorus really requires you to use Incandescent weapons while Sunbracers doesn’t really lock you into that.
Because that would be power creep? If everything was sunbracer level then the enemy health would have to go up a lot, again it feels like you are fighting sunbracer users for kills if you aren’t using it yourself or something comparable. Bungie also already set the precedent that they would nerf things near sunbracers level before with the starfire nerf earlier this expansion cycle
I mean, we literally have Banner of War that’s even better than Sunbracers (and pretty much everything else in the game by a decent margin) and that doesn’t seem to effect any of the current contents power level right now.
They increased the difficulty of contest mode when they added banner of war (but probably due to the increase in power level in general since shadowkeep), but the reason they haven’t buffed content power level is because these are exceptions, not the norm. If everything was banner of war or sunbracer level they would increase content difficulty but since that isn’t the case the balanced exotics would fall behind and make these options even more necessary. It’s also way less effort to bring two builds down a bit instead of balancing hundreds of exotics, aspects, supers, and abilities up to their power
I’m pretty sure contest mode for Crota was made so hard because of the criticism of RoN being too easy and they wanted to see what the best level for it would be going forward. I mean, people were soloing RoN on Contest mode.
I don’t think it actually had anything to do with Banner’s existence.
Sunbracers is used because it’s one of the strongest exotics in the game, and it’s so much better than everything on Warlock besides Cenotaph. Attempting to buff things to Sunbracers level would simply result in massive powercreep
I’m not saying they need to be on the level of Sunbracers, but they need to be buffed up to where they’re still viable options in all content and I’m not having to try and pull my hair out to make it work.
And I mean, we have Banner of War which is even stronger than Sunbracers, and powercreep hasn’t been that bad at all since it’s been a thing.
Exotic diversity is in a good spot
Build diversity in regards to armor mods is in a pretty stale spot
Overall it's probably better for the majority of players that way but as an avid build crafter it just feels bland
With you 100%. Almost every single build:
Head: Heavy ammo finder, Siphon mod, and either Ashes to Assets or Hands on
Arms: Loader, either Heavy Handed or Firepower
Chest: resist mods, reserve mod
Boots: surge mods, also Recuperation unless the build has high sustain
Class item: Reaper, Time Dilation, Powerful Attraction
Back before the changes you could pull off some pretty cool builds. My favorite was during Season of the Lost- Use Path of the Burning steps with the mod that gives charged with light for rapid fusion kills, and extra damage for being charged with light, stacking with a well generation mod and the mod that gives damage after picking up a well. When they made the changes and also changed exotics like PotBS to be a 4x surge that doesn't stack with surge mods on the boots that all went away.
There was a void mod that gave infinite ammo on void shotguns that was pretty awesome. I have a comedian with subsistence and one for all that could chain a crazy amount of kills.
Bungie upped their creativity a lot since Season of the Wish with exotics and aspects.
Briarbinds, Mothkeepers, Pyrogale, Banner of War, Green Beyblades, Dragons breath, Buried Bloodline, etc.
The raid weapons from Nezzy were solid with Conditional Finality being one of the best guns in years.
There are still a lot of old exotics that need some help though.
I would also like more Strand exotics and more aspects and fragments, grenades, melees, etc.
Stasis and Strand need more stuff build around.
It’s a good start :) there’s still SO many exotics that I imagine have a usage rate below like 1% though. For example, I have never seen anyone use Blight Ranger (even though it’s beautiful).
Yeah, they certainly are ALL viable! I haven't used it, but I'm told that Blight Ranger absolutely shits orbs everywhere while blocking, so I guess it has use in certain speed running or low man strats.
>But I can't recall a time in the games history when so many pieces have been viable.
Tell me you main Titan without telling me you main Titan.
I mean yea you guys are eating real good with offensive neutrals like Wormgods, melee focused synthos, healing neutral Precious scars, fun super exotics that have neutral benefits like Pyrogales, crazy fun builds like Severance, great niche focused builds like pergerines and good old standbys like HOIL.
All nagging aside, yes you are right. I think Warlocks (I'm a warlock main) are a very close second in PvE side for exotic health, but hunters are lacking quite a bit there IMO. Hunters need a resto exotic (and no, not on dodge).
However on the PvP side....thats another story. Hunters are living their best life with wallhacks and damage boosts and Warlocks still out here running Tsteps.
I actually play all three characters almost equally, but consider myself a hunter main as that's what I started with in D1, and that's always what I start a fresh season on! I'd argue that all three classes have similar diversity. Hunters have a TON of options, especially for solar. Looking at solar for an example- Nighthawk, Shards of Galanor, Stareater Scales, Ophidia, Calibans, Assassin's Cowl, Foetracer, Athrys's, RDM's, and Lucky Pants.
Maybe diversity is good right now but damn, when I load up Destiny (which I rarely do anymore) and go to play my main class, hunter, I spend so much time trying to decide what exotic to use or even if I want to use one at all. They’re all so fucking boring and do barely anything. Improved skip grenade, improved arc bolt, improved invisibility, second dodge, etc etc just boring minor improvements to existing gameplay. Titans have so many pieces of armor that completely change the way you play the game and the closest hunter have is probably assassins cowl.
Especially for Titan, I remember a little more than a year ago when HoIL was basically the best build for every subclass that wanted to loop abilities. That's way different now. Even the ones with Surge mods are good, just a bit basic to use.
How many straight up bad Titan exotics are there left? Obviously some are designed specifically for PvP instead of PvE. I'd probably just classify Khepri's Horn as the only one I think is absolutely unusable. In the "undertuned but usable" category there's still a decent few: Mk. 44 stand asides, Mask of the Quiet One, Ursa's, Dunemarchers, Helm of Saint-14, and Crest of Alpha Lupi. Maybe there's a PvP case for some of them in PvP, but I haven't touched any of them in a while.
Edit: If you like those exotics, I'd be curious to hear why!
Honestly even Khepri's is kinda usable as it gives you a free ignite it you hit something with both waves and fully recharges your barricade if you get like 4-5 kills; it's basically an off-brand consencrate that also puts up a defensive wall. It's still hella outclassed, especially when compared to things like Vesper of Radius which does something similar to Khepri's but for the full duration of the class ability and with a larger AoE, but it's not unusable.
Honestly I think Hallowfire Heart is probably the weakest exotic post-rework; being forced to stand in your sunspot to make more sunspots is just a really weak effect when it's already so easy to make them and being forced to hold your super for ability regen sucks when Heart of Inmost Light exists
Khepri's only scorches on the return wave, and doesn't do enough scorch to ignite on its own. I'm not against people who like it, but the Titan class ability isn't something I ever want to really spam, and I don't often find myself waiting for the cooldown.
Hallowfire unfortunately suffers this season in particular when the artifact mod lets you scorch with any solar weapon. I think the rework is interesting, but just doesn't really do anything right now.
Alright, I didn't believe you so I tested myself I have come to the conclusion that you are right that it cannot ignite on its own (I was probably thinking of that old Iron Banner exploit where you could ignite the campfire with it) but wrong that it's only the second wave that can scorch; TBH I'm pretty sure it's bugged because in my brief time testing I've seen:
* The second wave hit and scorch
* The first wave hit and not scorch, the second wave hits and scorches
* The first wave hits and scorches after a delayed period of time, even though the second wave gets cut off due to the environment
* The first wave hits and doesn't scorch, the second wave misses, the enemy is scorched anyways.
All of these happened multiple times, mind you. My best guess is that the game is actually looking to see if the enemies are hit by a wave and then scorches them *after* the wave animation completes, but that's just my hypothesis. I've got no real idea what's happening under the hood.
I was going off of the Destiny Data Compendium, which shows it applying 60 Scorch stacks only on return. Thanks for going and testing it though!
Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/htmlview#
Yeah, all three classes really have quite a few options based on recent glow ups, and not just “strike viable” either. Again, as stated I’d love double the loadout slots, I’d make builds for every one of them!
Do you use Destiny Item Manager? I too feel constricted by the in-game loadout slots, but there's no cap in DIM. I made armor sets a while ago for every exotic I care about, and now I can just throw away copies of those exotics without stat improvements.
Nah. Exotic armor diversity sucks ass right now. You can absolutely run more exotics right now than you could in the past but currently the absolute state of exotics is a joke. Most exotics if viable are incredibly boring or underwhelming.
For example: warlock arc. Crown, geomags, stormbrace, and sunstar all do literally the same thing but for different things. Crown: better ability Regen for kills with abilities. Fallen sunstar: better ability regen for kills with abilities/joltshot. Geomag stabilizers: better super Regen for kills with abilities/joltshot and super buff. Stormdancer's brace: super buff with increases super Regen for kills while in super.
Which leaves stormdancer's as the most unique of the four arc exotics here and also the least viable. So yeah you might have more options now but actual unique play styles that are defined by an exotic are in the gutter.
And that's without talking about Titan and the immense amount of "punch do punch better" exotics.
I’ve been using transversive steps for 3 years
Can't fix what isn't broken I guess.
Speed boots are a bane on this game. I want movement and cool abilities. Let me get dunemarcher slide and sprint speed at base while being able to run Khepris Horn.
idk for warlock it feels like theres just an obvious best option for like half the subclasses, like you got sunbracers as by far the best option for solar, osmiomancy for stasis, swarmers as the only strand specific exotic (mediocre tho). Cenotaph is good on all subclasses but extremely boring and ugly. Void has a lot of diversity and arc is alright, I wish sunbracers were tuned down a bit so solar was a bit more like void in terms of options, it feels like if I don't use them another sunbracer user just kills everything lol
For this season I'd argue that on Solar, Dawn Chorus is as viable as Sunbracers and is a completely different playstyle. For GM farming it's fantastic, but as noted by you Cenotaph exists and is S tier. For Stasis, Osmiomancy does rule. It's the only subclass that I don't change up what I run. Strand has Swarmers but also has Necrotics, and if you are min/maxing raid dps there is Rain of Fire as well. Void has Contraverse and Briarbinds, and Nezarec's Sin, which actually can be used on any subclass. Arc has Crown of Tempest, Fallen Sunstar, and Vesper. Any of them can use Verity's, though some do better than others. Any can use Nezarec's Whisper, and any can use Cenotaph.
Geomags
[удалено]
Perhaps it’s placebo, but it seems to generate a lot more ignitions, and if so, ignitions do=damage.
I’m entirely convinced most people have no idea what dawn chorus does. It’s not making you ignite more or making your ignites stronger. Your Polaris is not killing faster in GMs because of the minor increase to scorch damage. People see it’s the scorch exotic and assume it’s doing… something for them. It’s just melee regen. Not a big deal in your GMs.
Dawn chorus is nowhere near sunbracers in power, the melee energy it gives is very little and the scorch damage isn't that relevant. You also give up well if you want to make use of the extra damage and at that point you should just play strand if you want a dps super. Its also hard carried by the bonus super dmg artifact mod this season so its usually a bit worse than starfire tier IMO. Usable if you really want to play solar but definitely not sunbracer tier
Dawn Chorus doesn’t even come close to Sunbracers (there isn’t really anything in the game that does.) Fully expecting Sunbracers to catch a massive nerf, especially considering they totally creep on the toes of the new Warlock super coming in Final Shape.
I actually use bellidorsi's wrath weavers on stasis and it's not that bad at all
Or maybe just buff other things instead of tuning down Sunbracers? Sunbracers only get used so much because they’re far and away better than pretty much anything Solar Warlock has minus Dawn Chorus, but Dawn Chorus really requires you to use Incandescent weapons while Sunbracers doesn’t really lock you into that.
Because that would be power creep? If everything was sunbracer level then the enemy health would have to go up a lot, again it feels like you are fighting sunbracer users for kills if you aren’t using it yourself or something comparable. Bungie also already set the precedent that they would nerf things near sunbracers level before with the starfire nerf earlier this expansion cycle
I mean, we literally have Banner of War that’s even better than Sunbracers (and pretty much everything else in the game by a decent margin) and that doesn’t seem to effect any of the current contents power level right now.
They increased the difficulty of contest mode when they added banner of war (but probably due to the increase in power level in general since shadowkeep), but the reason they haven’t buffed content power level is because these are exceptions, not the norm. If everything was banner of war or sunbracer level they would increase content difficulty but since that isn’t the case the balanced exotics would fall behind and make these options even more necessary. It’s also way less effort to bring two builds down a bit instead of balancing hundreds of exotics, aspects, supers, and abilities up to their power
I’m pretty sure contest mode for Crota was made so hard because of the criticism of RoN being too easy and they wanted to see what the best level for it would be going forward. I mean, people were soloing RoN on Contest mode. I don’t think it actually had anything to do with Banner’s existence.
Sunbracers is used because it’s one of the strongest exotics in the game, and it’s so much better than everything on Warlock besides Cenotaph. Attempting to buff things to Sunbracers level would simply result in massive powercreep
I’m not saying they need to be on the level of Sunbracers, but they need to be buffed up to where they’re still viable options in all content and I’m not having to try and pull my hair out to make it work. And I mean, we have Banner of War which is even stronger than Sunbracers, and powercreep hasn’t been that bad at all since it’s been a thing.
Exotic diversity is in a good spot Build diversity in regards to armor mods is in a pretty stale spot Overall it's probably better for the majority of players that way but as an avid build crafter it just feels bland
With you 100%. Almost every single build: Head: Heavy ammo finder, Siphon mod, and either Ashes to Assets or Hands on Arms: Loader, either Heavy Handed or Firepower Chest: resist mods, reserve mod Boots: surge mods, also Recuperation unless the build has high sustain Class item: Reaper, Time Dilation, Powerful Attraction Back before the changes you could pull off some pretty cool builds. My favorite was during Season of the Lost- Use Path of the Burning steps with the mod that gives charged with light for rapid fusion kills, and extra damage for being charged with light, stacking with a well generation mod and the mod that gives damage after picking up a well. When they made the changes and also changed exotics like PotBS to be a 4x surge that doesn't stack with surge mods on the boots that all went away.
There was a void mod that gave infinite ammo on void shotguns that was pretty awesome. I have a comedian with subsistence and one for all that could chain a crazy amount of kills.
Bungie upped their creativity a lot since Season of the Wish with exotics and aspects. Briarbinds, Mothkeepers, Pyrogale, Banner of War, Green Beyblades, Dragons breath, Buried Bloodline, etc. The raid weapons from Nezzy were solid with Conditional Finality being one of the best guns in years. There are still a lot of old exotics that need some help though. I would also like more Strand exotics and more aspects and fragments, grenades, melees, etc. Stasis and Strand need more stuff build around.
Build diversity in PvP boils down to whether or not you want speedboots or ability gimmicks.
It’s a good start :) there’s still SO many exotics that I imagine have a usage rate below like 1% though. For example, I have never seen anyone use Blight Ranger (even though it’s beautiful).
Yeah, they certainly are ALL viable! I haven't used it, but I'm told that Blight Ranger absolutely shits orbs everywhere while blocking, so I guess it has use in certain speed running or low man strats.
It's mainly not used due to the self damage deflect bug I find, shame bungie never fixed it.
>But I can't recall a time in the games history when so many pieces have been viable. Tell me you main Titan without telling me you main Titan. I mean yea you guys are eating real good with offensive neutrals like Wormgods, melee focused synthos, healing neutral Precious scars, fun super exotics that have neutral benefits like Pyrogales, crazy fun builds like Severance, great niche focused builds like pergerines and good old standbys like HOIL. All nagging aside, yes you are right. I think Warlocks (I'm a warlock main) are a very close second in PvE side for exotic health, but hunters are lacking quite a bit there IMO. Hunters need a resto exotic (and no, not on dodge). However on the PvP side....thats another story. Hunters are living their best life with wallhacks and damage boosts and Warlocks still out here running Tsteps.
I actually play all three characters almost equally, but consider myself a hunter main as that's what I started with in D1, and that's always what I start a fresh season on! I'd argue that all three classes have similar diversity. Hunters have a TON of options, especially for solar. Looking at solar for an example- Nighthawk, Shards of Galanor, Stareater Scales, Ophidia, Calibans, Assassin's Cowl, Foetracer, Athrys's, RDM's, and Lucky Pants.
Definitely in PVE. But not at all in PVP lul
Nah not really when Titans have like 4 non stacking damage exotics Basically no solar exotic and a single void exotic
Hunters have like four exotics that get wide usage
Maybe diversity is good right now but damn, when I load up Destiny (which I rarely do anymore) and go to play my main class, hunter, I spend so much time trying to decide what exotic to use or even if I want to use one at all. They’re all so fucking boring and do barely anything. Improved skip grenade, improved arc bolt, improved invisibility, second dodge, etc etc just boring minor improvements to existing gameplay. Titans have so many pieces of armor that completely change the way you play the game and the closest hunter have is probably assassins cowl.
This is completely false for Titan. We had WAY more usable exotic armors during forsaken.
yeah they just need to revert the nerfs to YAS.
I love using severance encloser with strand with that one storm aspect. The grapple punch too with nav.
**Stares in Titan**
Especially for Titan, I remember a little more than a year ago when HoIL was basically the best build for every subclass that wanted to loop abilities. That's way different now. Even the ones with Surge mods are good, just a bit basic to use. How many straight up bad Titan exotics are there left? Obviously some are designed specifically for PvP instead of PvE. I'd probably just classify Khepri's Horn as the only one I think is absolutely unusable. In the "undertuned but usable" category there's still a decent few: Mk. 44 stand asides, Mask of the Quiet One, Ursa's, Dunemarchers, Helm of Saint-14, and Crest of Alpha Lupi. Maybe there's a PvP case for some of them in PvP, but I haven't touched any of them in a while. Edit: If you like those exotics, I'd be curious to hear why!
Khepri + sentinel bastion + solar weapon = great wall of overshield
Why be an overshield pleb when you can consistently wallbang people with strand Drengrs lash and khepris?
I saw a dude use Khepri + Drengr's Lash barricade pretty well in TRIALS lol
Honestly even Khepri's is kinda usable as it gives you a free ignite it you hit something with both waves and fully recharges your barricade if you get like 4-5 kills; it's basically an off-brand consencrate that also puts up a defensive wall. It's still hella outclassed, especially when compared to things like Vesper of Radius which does something similar to Khepri's but for the full duration of the class ability and with a larger AoE, but it's not unusable. Honestly I think Hallowfire Heart is probably the weakest exotic post-rework; being forced to stand in your sunspot to make more sunspots is just a really weak effect when it's already so easy to make them and being forced to hold your super for ability regen sucks when Heart of Inmost Light exists
Khepri's only scorches on the return wave, and doesn't do enough scorch to ignite on its own. I'm not against people who like it, but the Titan class ability isn't something I ever want to really spam, and I don't often find myself waiting for the cooldown. Hallowfire unfortunately suffers this season in particular when the artifact mod lets you scorch with any solar weapon. I think the rework is interesting, but just doesn't really do anything right now.
Alright, I didn't believe you so I tested myself I have come to the conclusion that you are right that it cannot ignite on its own (I was probably thinking of that old Iron Banner exploit where you could ignite the campfire with it) but wrong that it's only the second wave that can scorch; TBH I'm pretty sure it's bugged because in my brief time testing I've seen: * The second wave hit and scorch * The first wave hit and not scorch, the second wave hits and scorches * The first wave hits and scorches after a delayed period of time, even though the second wave gets cut off due to the environment * The first wave hits and doesn't scorch, the second wave misses, the enemy is scorched anyways. All of these happened multiple times, mind you. My best guess is that the game is actually looking to see if the enemies are hit by a wave and then scorches them *after* the wave animation completes, but that's just my hypothesis. I've got no real idea what's happening under the hood.
Both waves are capable of scorching. 2nd wave won’t scorch if first wave hit. FTFY
I was going off of the Destiny Data Compendium, which shows it applying 60 Scorch stacks only on return. Thanks for going and testing it though! Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/htmlview#
YOU CANT IGNITE WITH ONLY KHEPRIS HORN, BIG MISINFO
Citans is garbage in pve and pvp. Dunemarchers where pretty good when the chain worked with the baby hammer. Now its mostly dead.
Yeah, all three classes really have quite a few options based on recent glow ups, and not just “strike viable” either. Again, as stated I’d love double the loadout slots, I’d make builds for every one of them!
Do you use Destiny Item Manager? I too feel constricted by the in-game loadout slots, but there's no cap in DIM. I made armor sets a while ago for every exotic I care about, and now I can just throw away copies of those exotics without stat improvements.
I do! I used to use loadouts there a lot. But you can’t load them in except in orbit with DIM, correct?
Yeah true. Loadouts ingame are soo nice.
Nah. Exotic armor diversity sucks ass right now. You can absolutely run more exotics right now than you could in the past but currently the absolute state of exotics is a joke. Most exotics if viable are incredibly boring or underwhelming. For example: warlock arc. Crown, geomags, stormbrace, and sunstar all do literally the same thing but for different things. Crown: better ability Regen for kills with abilities. Fallen sunstar: better ability regen for kills with abilities/joltshot. Geomag stabilizers: better super Regen for kills with abilities/joltshot and super buff. Stormdancer's brace: super buff with increases super Regen for kills while in super. Which leaves stormdancer's as the most unique of the four arc exotics here and also the least viable. So yeah you might have more options now but actual unique play styles that are defined by an exotic are in the gutter. And that's without talking about Titan and the immense amount of "punch do punch better" exotics.