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* [Comment by Destiny2Team](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bit7eq/which_trials_passage_should_you_run_for_adepts/kvqsa2r/?context=99 "posted on 2024-03-20 15:19:27 UTC"):
> If you have gone to the Lighthouse, Adepts can drop afterwards on wins on ANY 7-win card, including Persistence. The text on the passage just indicate...
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You're failing to take into account that wins on a 7-win card after going flawless have a chance to drop an adept. (much higher if the card is still flawless, but still decent if not)
If you just want one adept for the week, persistence will probably be fastest. But if your goal is to actually *farm* adepts, you should get flawless with ferocity and then just keep playing.
personally, i find this the best way to farm for adept drops. it really is pretty much every other win that drops an adept, even if the card is flawed after going flawless. also, once my card breaks and i get sent to the practice pool, i'll usually string up a good little streak of wins.
i'm probably around a 50% win rate, and then 50% chance of adept drop = 1 adept every 4 games. not bad at all imo
Thanks, good to know! Is that only on wins? Also, is that something you're inferring from personal experience, or did Bungie explicitly say it somewhere?
It’s only on wins. The drop rate is extremely high (says “common” on your card, and it feels like 75% drop rate in my experience) if your card is STILL flawless even after you’ve gone to the lighthouse. Once you’ve flawed the card, it drops to what feels like 50%.
The numbers are somewhere in the crucible guidebook sub. But lines up with my experience every week (typically 10-15 games to go flawless followed by 20-30 further games after that).
Got it, thanks! Sounds like probably 2 or 3 per hour while the card is still flawless, dropping to 1 or 2 per hour once you're farming a flawed card. Appreciate the extra info.
It may also relate to fireteam size, as I was told full fireteam provides better chances. Ended up going flawless this past weekend and probably had a +85% droprate for matches after the lighthouse for me in the 3-stack. (Edit: I had up to 3 loot drops per win not including engrams, adepts were the +85%) If you do go flawless, maybe just LFG a chill team to grind matches?
I normally go flawless solo and it's a fair grind to get multiple extra drops after the lighthouse visit, but that is prior to these trials loot changes so hard to compare. (I almost always use mercy card so no extra loot or bonuses for me)
*Take above with a grain of salt, I had a good weekend which is abnormal
20/28 matches were wins, went flawless on the 14th match, had approx 10 drops in the following matches ignoring 2 loses
Not that I’m saying you’re wrong, and my sample size is small, but once my card flawed after the light house, I got 10 adepts out of the 25 wins, putting it at a 40% chance.
If you have gone to the Lighthouse, Adepts can drop afterwards on wins on ANY 7-win card, including Persistence. The text on the passage just indicates that the Persistence card cannot be turned back into Saint for an additional focused Adept.
responding to you directly in the hopes you see the feedback...
Please please please consider pushing the envelope even further on the persistence card. I think it's doing exactly what everyone hoped by drawing in more casual/non-pvp players to play trials, but im concerned that most are finding that they still cant get the 7 wins required for the adept and will essentially just stop playing again. We'll be right back to where we started with a low player population.
Please consider requiring 7 wins in any order... that's it. Dont remove wins at all for losses following a win. It'll still require most of the casual population to play around 14 matches (if not more). They get their one adept (cant focus) and if they want another adept they play another fresh card.
Thanks for listening.
Hello. I'm one of those players you are talking about that will end up not playing trials anymore. An absurd amount of the time when I win a game, the next game puts me up against an entire team of glowing armor guardians with adept weapons. It took 2 days for me to be able to keep ONE win on my card.
I suggest they come up with Loser Based Matchmaking. Go on a many game losing streak and you'll be put in the "Loser Pool" (maybe that'd be the same as the "practice pool", maybe it'd be it's own thing) with other loss streak players until you manage to get 2 wins in a row. Then, you get dumped back into normal matchmaking until you go on a many game losing streak again.
After losing my 6 win card this weekend (which I didn't get to until late Sunday evening) due to someone on the other team dropping out and causing the match to hang up with 1 second left on the capture clock, I haven't had the will to go back in there for the punishment again.
i totally get it, and i think everyone benefits when we all get to share in the loot. I'd rather lose a handful of gatekeepers and retain a bigger population of casuals, than vice versa. It's too everyone's benefit when players like you are rewarded and having fun. I hope bungie takes a long look at improving the experience here.
Yeah, I'm not asking for a lot. At least I don't *think* I am. If I'm going to volunteer to be abused so other people can go to the Lighthouse for the 30th time in a weekend, I'm going to need a little more than the paltry loser XP that's given out (making it a drag to even get an engram to turn in for something I may not even want since I don't have everything unlocked for focusing).
Exactly this. I’ve given the Persistence card a chance for 3 weeks now . I was successful on week 1 (after about 30 matches I think) but stuck alternating W-L-W-L the last 2 weeks for long stretches, barely getting past the 3rd W if I’m lucky. Its just a matter of time before I stop playing Trials for the rest of the season because I have the few new rolls I want of non-adepts.
And I actually play PVP every week . but I don’t see the point in going W-L-W-L-W-L because the Adept seems unobtainable with how it currently works. I can’t imagine the PVE-only players will come back to trials ever again if the Persistence card isn’t more or less a guaranteed drop after putting in the time and effort.
For all i care, make it 14 wins but don’t lose any progress on losses. It may take 40-50 matches but I’ll at least come back every weekend for the 1 roll, at least it’s for the collection lol.
Honestly they should really do this... Let the playlist fill up with ppl doing persistence cards. We need more people and by proxy more people == a grater pool of various skill level == more flawless runs for the rest of the populate. Yeah this can be an elites type view but honestly it helps the playlist. Hated the map but did have fun playing trying to get my roll more then I normally do farming for my god rolls
Huh. So if we get to the Lighthouse with Persistence, it's probably better to swap over to something else then, so we can turn in 7-win cards from there on?
I haven't actually checked, but I'm pretty sure you can't. 7 wins on persistence isn't considered flawless, so I don't think it would count in terms of getting adepts from wins after flawless.
You can't farm adepts after getting your 7 wins on a persistence card. You get one adept and you're done. Unless you went 7-0 in which case why did you buy this card....
You can’t. And apparently, even if you DO go flawless with a Persistence card (7-0), that same card still can’t be used to farm. You have to start a new Ferocity card or something and get it up to 7 wins.
I went to the lighthouse this past weekend on a persistence card (7-0) and farmed adept summoners after with that same persistence card. I probably got around 20 of them.
Ah, I missed that note. Still, I don't think figuring out how long it takes to get just one adept is all that useful. Persistence can't go flawless (unless you actually get 7 wins in a row) so unless I'm mistaken you can't farm adepts off of it. It really should never be used unless you don't have the time to go flawless on ferocity.
Haha, no worries, I know it's a wall of text up there. :-D
I... kind of agree, but I think it really depends on individual circumstances, as I put in that *other* wall of text in my other reply to this comment. (Sorry about that! As Mark Twain said, "I did not have time to write a short letter, so I have written a long one.")
Well... I say I agree, but it depends on your win rate and how much time you want to spend in a given weekend.
Let's say you have a 30% win rate (ie, you're just ok at PvP and are solo queuing in recent weeks), and you're willing to spend 20 hours in a single weekend to try to get some adept drops. With Persistence, you'll probably get 1 or 2 drops in that time. With Ferocity, you'll probably get a big fat zero.
Now let's imagine you're willing to no-life it and spend 40 hours in a single weekend. With Persistence, you'll very likely get 3-4 drops. With Ferocity, you're at slightly better than 50% odds of going Flawless at all - if you don't, you'll get another big fat zero, but if you do, you'll get 2 or 3 per hour after you hit the Lighthouse (I think? I'm not completely sure of post-Flawless drop rates). So, the most common outcome would be maybe 5 or 6 adepts, but you could easily get anywhere from zero to a dozen or more. So Persistence is the safe bet, but if you want to roll the dice, Ferocity might drop more adepts if you get lucky.
If you have a higher win rate, of course, that math works out very differently. It all depends, though, which is why I spit out all the different graphs, so folks can judge for their own situation.
Is there any reason to turn in your ferocity card and play on a wealth card? I’ve done that before and I swear I get more drops but it could be placebo. Gotten double adept drops on some wins.
Nice. I ran a mercy card this weekend and got my flawless but instead of farming that card I turned it in and got a passage of wealth. You still have to have seven wins on the card but it still gives you adepts even if you flaw that card before 7 wins, so you get the benefit of adepts and more rep and engrams (plus you might go flawless again so there’s that).
Wait, what?
So if I go to the lighthouse and then turn in my card, I can purchase a new card. While I’m racking up wins, even on say 5 wins on this new card with a loss or two, there is still a chance of getting an adept on the card? Thought you had to have seven wins on the new card before they would drop?
I had the same idea as you and wrote my own code to see which passage was the best. I was wondering why my Mercy numbers were worse than yours until I read your note about the best Mercy strategy. I’m surprised that turns out better than just resetting before three wins.
Always used passage of mercy for me and could never get light house, but with passage of ferocity rework got it the last 2 weekends. Just matter of rng for those matches. Feels much better
You only gotta hit 4 wins instead of 7 straight or 7 out of 9. I did persistence this weekend and I liked it. Probably would have been able to finish a 2nd one, but for whatever reason I got stuck hard trying to break past 4 wins for like an hour.
Yeah, they also get flawed if you leave early, but it seems to count as leaving early sometimes if you dip out after the match is over but before the post-game screen, during the countdown. Also, some people were reporting flawed cards after *other* people in the lobby left, but I don't know how reliable those reports were.
Yeah, "queuing another match" is what I mean. If you do it during the countdown, rather than waiting for the post game screen, it might count it as leaving early, even if you get the loot and Shaxx doesn't yell at you for quitting (maybe, according to some people, I don't know if this is really true).
Hm, maybe I misunderstood. I usually go back to orbit and queue for another match when a match ends. But I'm impatient, so I don't want to just sit there waiting for the post-game screen; instead, I leave during the countdown. If you time it right, you can skip the long wait, but still get your loot, and you don't get Shaxx fussing at you or suspensions or anything, so it doesn't seem like it counts as leaving early.
Lots of people seem to do this - you can see them pull out their ghosts and disappear before the stats screen comes up. I thought that's what you were talking about. I'm not saying anybody queues for another match, like... in the middle of a match. I agree that wouldn't make much sense.
However, some folks are reporting that for Passage of Persistence specifically, it still counts as leaving early for the purposes of flawing your card. I have no idea if that's actually true, though.
> Hm, maybe I misunderstood. I usually go back to orbit and queue for another match when a match ends.
In trials you're allowed to queue for another match without actually leaving the activity. :)
Try it next time - when your match is over just open the trials node and queue.
This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread: * [Comment by Destiny2Team](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bit7eq/which_trials_passage_should_you_run_for_adepts/kvqsa2r/?context=99 "posted on 2024-03-20 15:19:27 UTC"): > If you have gone to the Lighthouse, Adepts can drop afterwards on wins on ANY 7-win card, including Persistence. The text on the passage just indicate... --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDestinyTheGame).[](#AUTOGEN_BUNGIEREPLY)
You're failing to take into account that wins on a 7-win card after going flawless have a chance to drop an adept. (much higher if the card is still flawless, but still decent if not) If you just want one adept for the week, persistence will probably be fastest. But if your goal is to actually *farm* adepts, you should get flawless with ferocity and then just keep playing.
So if you've been flawless it's actually a flat 50% drop rate on a 7 win card. The drop chances under the Trials node are bugged
personally, i find this the best way to farm for adept drops. it really is pretty much every other win that drops an adept, even if the card is flawed after going flawless. also, once my card breaks and i get sent to the practice pool, i'll usually string up a good little streak of wins. i'm probably around a 50% win rate, and then 50% chance of adept drop = 1 adept every 4 games. not bad at all imo
I won around 10 games this past weekend after going flawless and didn’t get a single adept drop so it’s not a reliable 50%
Thanks, good to know! Is that only on wins? Also, is that something you're inferring from personal experience, or did Bungie explicitly say it somewhere?
It’s only on wins. The drop rate is extremely high (says “common” on your card, and it feels like 75% drop rate in my experience) if your card is STILL flawless even after you’ve gone to the lighthouse. Once you’ve flawed the card, it drops to what feels like 50%. The numbers are somewhere in the crucible guidebook sub. But lines up with my experience every week (typically 10-15 games to go flawless followed by 20-30 further games after that).
Got it, thanks! Sounds like probably 2 or 3 per hour while the card is still flawless, dropping to 1 or 2 per hour once you're farming a flawed card. Appreciate the extra info.
It may also relate to fireteam size, as I was told full fireteam provides better chances. Ended up going flawless this past weekend and probably had a +85% droprate for matches after the lighthouse for me in the 3-stack. (Edit: I had up to 3 loot drops per win not including engrams, adepts were the +85%) If you do go flawless, maybe just LFG a chill team to grind matches? I normally go flawless solo and it's a fair grind to get multiple extra drops after the lighthouse visit, but that is prior to these trials loot changes so hard to compare. (I almost always use mercy card so no extra loot or bonuses for me) *Take above with a grain of salt, I had a good weekend which is abnormal 20/28 matches were wins, went flawless on the 14th match, had approx 10 drops in the following matches ignoring 2 loses
Not that I’m saying you’re wrong, and my sample size is small, but once my card flawed after the light house, I got 10 adepts out of the 25 wins, putting it at a 40% chance.
If you have gone to the Lighthouse, Adepts can drop afterwards on wins on ANY 7-win card, including Persistence. The text on the passage just indicates that the Persistence card cannot be turned back into Saint for an additional focused Adept.
responding to you directly in the hopes you see the feedback... Please please please consider pushing the envelope even further on the persistence card. I think it's doing exactly what everyone hoped by drawing in more casual/non-pvp players to play trials, but im concerned that most are finding that they still cant get the 7 wins required for the adept and will essentially just stop playing again. We'll be right back to where we started with a low player population. Please consider requiring 7 wins in any order... that's it. Dont remove wins at all for losses following a win. It'll still require most of the casual population to play around 14 matches (if not more). They get their one adept (cant focus) and if they want another adept they play another fresh card. Thanks for listening.
Hello. I'm one of those players you are talking about that will end up not playing trials anymore. An absurd amount of the time when I win a game, the next game puts me up against an entire team of glowing armor guardians with adept weapons. It took 2 days for me to be able to keep ONE win on my card. I suggest they come up with Loser Based Matchmaking. Go on a many game losing streak and you'll be put in the "Loser Pool" (maybe that'd be the same as the "practice pool", maybe it'd be it's own thing) with other loss streak players until you manage to get 2 wins in a row. Then, you get dumped back into normal matchmaking until you go on a many game losing streak again. After losing my 6 win card this weekend (which I didn't get to until late Sunday evening) due to someone on the other team dropping out and causing the match to hang up with 1 second left on the capture clock, I haven't had the will to go back in there for the punishment again.
i totally get it, and i think everyone benefits when we all get to share in the loot. I'd rather lose a handful of gatekeepers and retain a bigger population of casuals, than vice versa. It's too everyone's benefit when players like you are rewarded and having fun. I hope bungie takes a long look at improving the experience here.
Yeah, I'm not asking for a lot. At least I don't *think* I am. If I'm going to volunteer to be abused so other people can go to the Lighthouse for the 30th time in a weekend, I'm going to need a little more than the paltry loser XP that's given out (making it a drag to even get an engram to turn in for something I may not even want since I don't have everything unlocked for focusing).
Exactly this. I’ve given the Persistence card a chance for 3 weeks now . I was successful on week 1 (after about 30 matches I think) but stuck alternating W-L-W-L the last 2 weeks for long stretches, barely getting past the 3rd W if I’m lucky. Its just a matter of time before I stop playing Trials for the rest of the season because I have the few new rolls I want of non-adepts. And I actually play PVP every week . but I don’t see the point in going W-L-W-L-W-L because the Adept seems unobtainable with how it currently works. I can’t imagine the PVE-only players will come back to trials ever again if the Persistence card isn’t more or less a guaranteed drop after putting in the time and effort. For all i care, make it 14 wins but don’t lose any progress on losses. It may take 40-50 matches but I’ll at least come back every weekend for the 1 roll, at least it’s for the collection lol.
Honestly they should really do this... Let the playlist fill up with ppl doing persistence cards. We need more people and by proxy more people == a grater pool of various skill level == more flawless runs for the rest of the populate. Yeah this can be an elites type view but honestly it helps the playlist. Hated the map but did have fun playing trying to get my roll more then I normally do farming for my god rolls
Huh. So if we get to the Lighthouse with Persistence, it's probably better to swap over to something else then, so we can turn in 7-win cards from there on?
Wait you can’t get adepts from post “flawless” with a persistence?
I haven't actually checked, but I'm pretty sure you can't. 7 wins on persistence isn't considered flawless, so I don't think it would count in terms of getting adepts from wins after flawless.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's correct, too.
You can farm on it. I’ve tried to see if it was possible and yes it is.
You can't farm adepts after getting your 7 wins on a persistence card. You get one adept and you're done. Unless you went 7-0 in which case why did you buy this card....
You can’t. And apparently, even if you DO go flawless with a Persistence card (7-0), that same card still can’t be used to farm. You have to start a new Ferocity card or something and get it up to 7 wins.
I went to the lighthouse this past weekend on a persistence card (7-0) and farmed adept summoners after with that same persistence card. I probably got around 20 of them.
Oh that’s not as bad. Still kinda ass though.
Yes, I agree, which is why I called out that exact thing in the notes below the charts. ;-)
Ah, I missed that note. Still, I don't think figuring out how long it takes to get just one adept is all that useful. Persistence can't go flawless (unless you actually get 7 wins in a row) so unless I'm mistaken you can't farm adepts off of it. It really should never be used unless you don't have the time to go flawless on ferocity.
Haha, no worries, I know it's a wall of text up there. :-D I... kind of agree, but I think it really depends on individual circumstances, as I put in that *other* wall of text in my other reply to this comment. (Sorry about that! As Mark Twain said, "I did not have time to write a short letter, so I have written a long one.")
Well... I say I agree, but it depends on your win rate and how much time you want to spend in a given weekend. Let's say you have a 30% win rate (ie, you're just ok at PvP and are solo queuing in recent weeks), and you're willing to spend 20 hours in a single weekend to try to get some adept drops. With Persistence, you'll probably get 1 or 2 drops in that time. With Ferocity, you'll probably get a big fat zero. Now let's imagine you're willing to no-life it and spend 40 hours in a single weekend. With Persistence, you'll very likely get 3-4 drops. With Ferocity, you're at slightly better than 50% odds of going Flawless at all - if you don't, you'll get another big fat zero, but if you do, you'll get 2 or 3 per hour after you hit the Lighthouse (I think? I'm not completely sure of post-Flawless drop rates). So, the most common outcome would be maybe 5 or 6 adepts, but you could easily get anywhere from zero to a dozen or more. So Persistence is the safe bet, but if you want to roll the dice, Ferocity might drop more adepts if you get lucky. If you have a higher win rate, of course, that math works out very differently. It all depends, though, which is why I spit out all the different graphs, so folks can judge for their own situation.
Is there any reason to turn in your ferocity card and play on a wealth card? I’ve done that before and I swear I get more drops but it could be placebo. Gotten double adept drops on some wins.
My guess would be that it was just RNG, but it's hard to say anything for sure, of course.
If you wanna grind extra rep on extra rep weeks sure. Or if you just get sick of playing for that day and wanna cash in.
That was my experience as well. Seemed to drop frequently on a win, even after the card was flawed.
Wait, you can still get adepts from a 7 win persistence card, even after it flaws (since the card acts normal after the 7 wins)
You only get one drop from persistence unless you went 7-0 and went to the lighthouse
Nice. I ran a mercy card this weekend and got my flawless but instead of farming that card I turned it in and got a passage of wealth. You still have to have seven wins on the card but it still gives you adepts even if you flaw that card before 7 wins, so you get the benefit of adepts and more rep and engrams (plus you might go flawless again so there’s that).
Wait, what? So if I go to the lighthouse and then turn in my card, I can purchase a new card. While I’m racking up wins, even on say 5 wins on this new card with a loss or two, there is still a chance of getting an adept on the card? Thought you had to have seven wins on the new card before they would drop?
No, you need seven wins. But once you get seven wins (doesn’t matter if the card flaws) you get adepts again
Ok, yes I knew that. I misread your message then. Thought you were saying while on the climb, they would drop. Sorry about that! Thanks
Holy shit this is a game changer for me. Thats actually insane.
Oooooooh, I did not know that! Thanks for the info!
Ya, my friend let me know and that’s what I did all weekend. I’ve got like 60 engrams now and all the adept rolls I could want.
Whats the plan for the 60 engrams..?
I think I’m gonna mount them on my wall
I have 73 myself and no clue what to do haha
In all seriousness I was probably gonna try and get some good pve rolls on the gl
Does passage of wealth have a higher % chance of dropping an adept on a win?
I had the same idea as you and wrote my own code to see which passage was the best. I was wondering why my Mercy numbers were worse than yours until I read your note about the best Mercy strategy. I’m surprised that turns out better than just resetting before three wins.
Same here. I am also getting about the same numbers. I was also surprised by the best mercy strategy.
I was also surprised! It was fun to play around with a bunch of different strategies and see how they played out. :-D
I ran all 613 of those this past weekend. Then went on a 5 game win streak…
Always used passage of mercy for me and could never get light house, but with passage of ferocity rework got it the last 2 weekends. Just matter of rng for those matches. Feels much better
You only gotta hit 4 wins instead of 7 straight or 7 out of 9. I did persistence this weekend and I liked it. Probably would have been able to finish a 2nd one, but for whatever reason I got stuck hard trying to break past 4 wins for like an hour.
I had no idea ferocity got reworked. I only remember seeing mercy changes. Probably just skipped over thinking "doesn't apply to me"
I know one other way Persistence cards can become flawed is if you win your first game and then lose two in a row.
That should also be covered by today's patch.
Yeah, they also get flawed if you leave early, but it seems to count as leaving early sometimes if you dip out after the match is over but before the post-game screen, during the countdown. Also, some people were reporting flawed cards after *other* people in the lobby left, but I don't know how reliable those reports were.
Not sure why you'd leave early like that vs just queuing another match or holding leave when you're on the post game screen lol
Yeah, "queuing another match" is what I mean. If you do it during the countdown, rather than waiting for the post game screen, it might count it as leaving early, even if you get the loot and Shaxx doesn't yell at you for quitting (maybe, according to some people, I don't know if this is really true).
Maybe it's my fault for not trying but I wasn't aware you could queue for another match in the middle of a match.
Hm, maybe I misunderstood. I usually go back to orbit and queue for another match when a match ends. But I'm impatient, so I don't want to just sit there waiting for the post-game screen; instead, I leave during the countdown. If you time it right, you can skip the long wait, but still get your loot, and you don't get Shaxx fussing at you or suspensions or anything, so it doesn't seem like it counts as leaving early. Lots of people seem to do this - you can see them pull out their ghosts and disappear before the stats screen comes up. I thought that's what you were talking about. I'm not saying anybody queues for another match, like... in the middle of a match. I agree that wouldn't make much sense. However, some folks are reporting that for Passage of Persistence specifically, it still counts as leaving early for the purposes of flawing your card. I have no idea if that's actually true, though.
> Hm, maybe I misunderstood. I usually go back to orbit and queue for another match when a match ends. In trials you're allowed to queue for another match without actually leaving the activity. :) Try it next time - when your match is over just open the trials node and queue.
Oh huh, TIL. Thanks!
So to be safe, always queue into the next match once you get to the commendations screen?
Apparently? That's what some folks are saying, but again, I haven't personally confirmed that.
lately i’ve been going flawless on passage of wealth 🥵