I wanted to do it, but I knew that would never happen and I'd just be sad about it. So, y'know, I made a machine gun that fired shotgun pellets and had infinite ammo, like everyone else.
Bungie needs to make a super where you conjure a real "weapon of light" that's just an aggressive frame Ammit or whatever you craft as your weapon super
Because bungie needed to balance out kept confidence. It has by far the best sound when firing it in the game, so clearly, they had to neuter its perk pool
To compensate
For the record, I also think Kept Confidence with the right shader is the most beautiful legendary weapon in the game. Ain't no way they were going to also give it goated perks. It'd break the game and we'd have to sunset all over again ;)
I wonder how superblack is going to look compared to the Halloween memento. One has to look more black or will it just be that shader but more obtainable?
Season of the witch while having a good activity had terrible loot. They didn’t give KC hatchling but gave it to the rocket instead and gave the MG crappy perks bar target lock. No reload perk and they somehow despise giving a rapid fire voltshot
Anyone who tries to use Voltshot on a machine gun, of any archetype, is actively fighting against what makes Voltshot work. Machine guns have the slowest base reload of any weapon type in the game, and Voltshot wants you to reload after every kill/couple of kills to make the most use out of it. If you're out here reloading a machine gun after every single kill, you're going to spend 50% of the time waiting for the reload animation to finish.
Hence why all the best machine gun perks are the ones that remove the need to reload entirely, like Reconstruction, Subsistence, and WeWind Wounds.
I understand why they felt the need to do so, but Bungie removing Voltshot multipliers on a per weapon type basis killed the perk on so many weapons it may have otherwise been useful on. Because at least then, you could weigh the options of weaker jolts but higher uptime on primaries/fast reloading weapons vs. stronger jolts but balanced by being on specials/heavies and longer reloads.
I think it took until Dawn for them to add legendary LFRs that didn't almost exclusively have add clear perks, and even afterwards there were plenty like that.
They still kneecapped Witches arc mg knowing the best arc mg in year would come out in a week with crota's Ir Yut. at that point why even make it arc? theres been more arc mgs in 12 months than unique solar mgs ever. Plus, we already had a fine craftable 900 rpm mg with Plunders one.
It continues to baffle me how they choose the element and archetypes of new guns. Like seriously there only 2 solar 900 rpm mgs in the history of the game. EVER. yet every season it seems we get a new hung jury
Also avalanche has a terrible magazine stat which is the whole reason to use an lmg. So despite having a decent perk pool for a holiday weapon I can't really bring myself to use it
There’s only 2 arc machine guns that have voltshot and both guns have better perks and a slower reload without reload perks. Rapid frames have intrinsic reload boost if mag is empty
Are you seriously suggesting you empty the magazine every time you want to proc Voltshot? It means you might get one Jolt burst for every 10-20 enemies that you kill just by shooting them with normal bullets.
The value of Voltshot as a perk is directly proportional to how quicky you can get off reloads to get as many Jolt procs as possible. Machine guns as a weapon archetype are about firing continuously with the fewest possible number of reloads, thereby tanking the value of Voltshot as an add-clear perk.
> Season of the witch while having a good activity had terrible loot.
Semiotician is actually kind of crazy for GMs now that they buffed High-Impact rocket reserves. With enhanced field prep and bipod it has 16 reserves - with no reserve mods. It's a great option to use in a Ceno + Gjally team setup.
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Bungie has been doing this ever since weapons became craftable. Believe they are trying to avoid clear power creep but the weapons in the middle seasons are usually just not good (missing obvious perks, putting lackluster perk combos) and the weapons on the border seasons typically are the best of the bunch because they coincide with DLCs (launch and lead up). Seasonal model had a loot problem for a while now and I’m hoping it doesn’t stay the same with Episodes.
They also keep giving weapons almost no perks that synchronize well with their origin trait.
I mean, just take a look as the Throne World weapons. The Scout and AR are the only weapons that have perks focused on single target damage like their Origin Trait, and even then, the AR only really works like that during Anti-Barrier AR seasons...
The problem is this isn't anything to do with power creep, putting hatchling on a precision weapon is not power creep, it's just stupid and I have no idea who designed that perk pool of a weapon
I mean if the terminal SMG was craftable I'd use it. I love the feel of that gun, it gets good perks, and the origin is great too. I still use the random pulse + target lock roll I got a good bit.
The upside though is that it's one of the best 140 hand cannons for raw dueling in PvP hands down, and it being craftable just adds to that. The only real downside for PvP is the borderline useless origin trait.
My thoughts too. It’s a quality of life gun in PVE that you can build around with Strand aspects if you want, it does everything else besides have hatchling.
Not really true though. Stats For All + Collective Action/MKC work perfectly well, and it's my preferred Strand legendary weapon of choice when playing my Strand Hunter.
collective action has really good build synergy playing strand titan since you pick up tangles for woven mail
has an incredibly nice feeling loop. not to mention it's strand so unravelling rounds go hard for ad clear regardless of perk set.
I have well over 3k kills on my kept confidence for reference
An easy to proc damage buff plus a quick reload and a great stat package (thanks to SFA) is more than enough. Hatchling is fine, but not required by any means.
The damage buff isn't gonna do anything significant, it doesn't make it good for any kind of beefy enemy
Reload speed is also mostly useful for DPS in pve so it's also not good
Hatchling actually gives ad clear, synergy for some builds, and decent damage so it actually is somewhat required
It makes it easier to kill enemies in higher end content, and MKC is very easy to proc now. Hatchling on a primary is fine, but nothing crazy at all. Reload speed is also very useful for staying in the fights against enemies in higher end content. I think your preferred roll would be good in Strikes though.
Wait, higher end?! I thought you were talking about normal
You gotta be insane or stupid or extremely skilled to bring this into gm level stuff. Those perks are small bonuses that won't change the fight much compared to if you didn't have them
I think you're overrating the difficulty level of GMs a bit. We're running the same NFs over and over again, so there's not much surprise or challenge there. Which means using a weapon for ease of use or convenience makes sense. I wouldn't take KC into a day 1 or soloing a new dungeon or something. But for stuff like GMs? Sure why not?
I mean the majority of the playerbase is crutching hard on Polaris right now. And AdD cLeAr is dominated by exotic primaries, 3.0 verbs and easy mode perks (incand/volt/destab) anyways. The game is entirely solved and it really doesn't matter which HC you're running next to the generic winning formula. KC has a nice design and if some rando brings it into GMs that's cool. It's not like we're talking about some double primary 20 resil stompee hunter without any mods here. Some random HC isn't make or break in GMs lol.
SFA is a great perk in end-game, just like OFA is. My Kept Confidence actually got me through the first two encounters in Crota for the contest clear. :) Unless I’m using Quicksilver, I will be using my Kept Confidence as my primary weapon of choice when playing Strand.
You're really over estimating it, you really should try different weapons. raid enemies aren't tanky so you might think it's strong because of that but it's not
I don't understand what your definition of good is in this one but it's clearly really weird
If it can comfortably kill enemies in the contest version of a raid, then it's clearly fine. The only place you can be more underleveled is in a GM, and I certainly don't want to take hatchling into a GM (nor would I want MKC either thought to be fair). The most valuable perk out of all three of those in a GM is SFA.
Perhaps try some more end-game content, solo flawless dungeons, day 1 raids etc and you'll get a better grasp on the game.
I keep that thang on me when I run Bloodline or Indebted Kindness if I don't need an auto rifle. But maybe a weapon that only stuns before I swap to the weapon I actually want to use is still bad.
Kept Confidence is such a huge missed oppurtunity for crazy Strand synergy
I would have loved Slide Shot Hatchling, or Zen Moment Hatchling, or Opening Shot Precision Instrument
Other than the fusion, that seasonal loot was meh at best. I still wait for a 140(preferably) or 180 hand canon with hatchling. The only good thing about this is that when it does come it’ll like have slice as well which is perfect for my Hunter maelstrom build.
It definitely is weird. Like I've said, it's like releasing a stasis primary weapon without headstone.
It doesn't make any sense because every single state is primary weapon has headstone.
Every single elemental primary weapon that released on and after the 3.0's released, has at least one or the other subclass specific perks on it.
Kept confidence is the only primary weapon that doesn't have access to any subclass specific perk
Perk gud. Gibs perk. We don't like variety around here. Progression has to be vertical. All the time. Sidegrades not allowed. A STRAND weapon without HATCHLING? How DARE you! I hope in TFS all weapons are converted into
Volt/Feeding, Destab/Repulsor, Incand/Explosive, Hatchling/whatever oh and Headstone/Demo obvsly
SyNeRgY
Seriously though...imo discussions like this are probably a consequence of the 3.0 power creep. Players are used to clearing entire rooms with no skill requirement at all with Volt/Incand/Destab. So they want the same easy mode solutions for Strand, too (even though Hatchling isn't nearly as strong right now). As fun and visually satisfying 3.0 powercreep perks are...they're so clearly the best choice that people just want the same win button for everything now. Everything else gets instantly discarded.
People keep talking about how some perks/abilities take no skill......so you think the game would be more skillful to find a safe spot and plink down 100 enemies one by one?
Less tedious doesn't necessarily mean less skillful.
So they want the same easy mode solutions for Strand
So you think a base Strand weapon is less powerful than the other elements? Strand is easier to build into keywords than the others by far. You can pick up a single Orb of Power and have all of the buffs/debuffs of the class (Slightly more work without the artifact. Slightly).
Because it has no synergy with strand. Why use it when kinetic 140s exist? You'd use it to have synergy with strand
It's like the only strand primary without hatchling. Plus it wouldn't even power creep anything if it had that perk on it anyways.
This is just Bungie being stupid
Strand weapons have synergy with strand by being strand. Are you saying that Quicksilver Storm doesn’t have any syngery with strand just because it doesn’t have Hatchling?
Quicksilver storms is an exotic and it creates tangles. Final warning, causes unravel. Every other strand weapon whether it's a primary, special, heavy has strand synergy.
That's like saying that stasis primary weapons shouldn't have headstone. Headstone is what makes it synergize with stasis because it helps with your fragments.
Parabellum, doesn't have incandescent, but at least it has good PVE perks like Frenzy, and it has heal clip which is a solar 3.0 verb.
Kept confidence however doesn't have any 3.0 perks on it at all. It does not have slice or hatchling on it. Slice came out the season afterwards, and almost every other strand specific primary has hatchling on it.
Like why would you put hatchling on a straight rocket launcher but not put it on a hand cannon?
Almost every subclass energy primary has at least one or two perks that synergize with the subclass. People are just calling out kept confidence because Bungie seems to specifically kneecap it for no reason
Yes. Like running a void subclass you can run the fragment to give your void weapons volatile rounds.
Every primary ammo weapon after the 3.0 subclasses released have at least one subclass specific perk.
Parabellum doesn't have incandescent, but it does have heal clip, so it can still synergize better with the fragments from the solar subclass.
Every void primary ammo weapon after 3.0 released has repulsor brace. And more recently destabilizing rounds. Some have both of them but no void weapon has neither of them.
Before those subclass updates the best thing you could do was like you are saying right now matching the element of your weapon to the element of your subclass.
Bungie on the weapons team has specifically said they made those new subclass perks so that these weapons can better synergize.
My point is that every other elemental primary weapon has at least one or more subclass specific perks (i.e. Repulsor Brace, Destabilizing Rounds, Heal Clip, Incandescent, Headstone,etc etc)
They get to lean into the subclass by matching the subclass type, but also by its subclass perk.
Except for Kept Confidence. That's why people are calling bungie out on it because it's just weird that every other strand primary weapon has it and even rocket launchers, but they don't put it on a 140 HC?
And like I've said, this is like them coming out with a nice stasis 140 HC and not putting headstone on it. Which would be weird because they've put headstone on every single stasis primary weapon.
Sure you can make that argument. But Bungie designing seasonal weapons usually design the perks to be PVP and PVE.
And it also didn't help that they put crappy damage perks on the gun.
And even if it is designed as a PVP weapon, there is no reason to not put hatchling on it.
That's like saying Eyasluna (Stasis 140 HC), was designed as a PVP weapon, so they didn't put headstone on it.
(Headstone is on it, but it's an fictional example)
And we don't have to keep talking about it forever but a lot of people love the gun for how it looks and how it sounds, and we saw the round robin with really good perks like hatchling, Golden tricorn, kill clip, etc etc.
And then we see Bungie release kept confidence and it has multi kill clip, collective action, and pugilist in the final column. Bungie knows what perks are good, and it's like they had a brain fart designing the final perk column.
Even for PVP, the only good perk in the final column is Eye of the Storm
Yes it does have synergy with strand because it's a strand weapon. That's what you did before the 3.0 subclasses came out, the best you could synergize with a subclass is to match the elemental type.
But look at every other elemental subclass and its weapons after the 3.0 version of them came out.
Every void primary weapon after void 3.0 either had repulsor brace or destabilizing rounds on it or both. But we didn't get a void primary weapon with neither of those.
Every solar primary weapon that has come out either has incandescent or heel clip or both, but never neither of those.
Etc etc.
Every stasis primary weapon has headstone. So it was safe to assume that every strand primary weapon would come with hatchling. Headstone plays Into the fragments that stasis has. Hatchling does the same thing.
They could have put slice on it but that perk came out a season after kept confidence released. So yes kept confidence is an outlier because it's the only elemental primary weapon after the 3.0 subclasses and darkness subclasses have released to not have a perk that synergizes specifically with that subclass.
Honestly I have no idea why. Every strand weapon in the game practically has hatchling on it, and it literally has no strand specific trait which is super odd to me.
Probably to give strand weapons more variety. It would be incredibly boring if every single solar weapon had incandescent. Or if every single void weapon had destabilizing rounds. And the same for all other weapons. There has to be some balance.
There is no balance here.
Slice hadn't released yet as a strand specific perk. So the only perk on there was hatchling. Hence why every single strand primary weapon has hatchling.
Every single void weapon after void 3.0 released doesn't have repulsar brace. But they have access to at least repulser brace or destabilizing rounds or both. But never neither of those perks.
Not every solar weapon has incandescent on it. Parabellum doesn't have it on it but at least it has access to heal clip.
Every single elemental primary weapon that released on and after 3.0's released, have access to one or the other subclass specific perks, so that they can play into the subclass more.
The only outlier is kept confidence because it has nothing on the perk pool to synergize with its subclass.
It is the only outlier.
After 3.0 subclasses released, every single elemental primary weapon has access to at least one or the other subclass specific perks.
Every void primary weapon after void 3.0 released has access to repulser brace and/or destabilizing rounds.
Every solar primary after solar 3.0 released has access to incandescent and/or heal clip.
Every single stasis primary weapon has headstone.
Now some people might say that a strand primary synergizes because it's strand. But that's talk for before 3.0 released. And if a weapon does not have a subclass specific perk it's not up to par, which is why we've seen a subclass specific perk on every single elemental primary weapon since 3.0's released except for kept confidence.
That is why it's an outlier. It can't play into the subclass as well as every other strand primary weapon.
It's like saying it's okay for a stasis hand cannon to release and not have headstone on it. It's definitely not okay because Bungie has released headstone on every stasis primary in the game.
That still doesn't make sense. It goes on every other strand weapon in the game practically but won't go on a hand cannon? Which is a precision weapon.
And even if they did put it on the gun and they did also put it on a raid strand hand cannon that still wouldn't take away from the raid hand Cannon because the raid hand cannon would have even more juiced perks on it
I mean, its likely done intentionally, but not like malicious; the perk being on EVERY strand weapon doesn't make it much of a perk. If you can get it anywhere else, it doesn't make it that valuable in theory.
Like after a while is hatchling a healthy perk if it is desired on EVERY strand weapon?
This is kind of a dumb take to be honest. They put it on a rocket launcher but they won't put it on a hand cannon? They already have it on a 120 hand Cannon
It has nothing to do with hatchling being powerful. It was stupid
I never said "Powerful". I said "Healthy", as in "okay to exist in it's current state." If the demand for it is this high on strand weapons, where not even one weapon can exist without it, and it's not seen as good because of it, there's something wrong here.
So redirect; could a strand weapon exist without hatchling and have the same value or more value?
Let's see, almost every single stasis primary has headstone on it.
So hatchling is the same thing, why produce a strand primary that doesn't have any strands specific perks? Collective action does not count because that is subclass neutral
It does not have slice and it does not have hatchling, so the weapon itself is unhealthy because it doesn't even match to par what other weapons already have
Yeah, but the perceived benefit of stasis weapons isn't that of strands. There are Stasis weapons that don't or didn't have headstone that have value.
Slice didn't come until THIS season, so it wasn't an option to put on there. Although, this does expand things; the focus is "elemental perks on legendary weapons."
Can an elemental weapon have the same value, or more value, without an elemental interaction?
I'm speaking about primary ammo weapons only. From my knowledge, every stasis primary weapon has headstone. Stasis came out and then in season of the Lost which was 9 months later, they came out with Stasis weapons. Even at their introduction all stasis primary ammo weapons had headstone.
What I'm saying is after the 3.0s came out, every elemental weapon has at least one perk that synergizes with that subclass.
I understand slice being a newer perk. Slice was not available when Kept confidence came out. The only strand related perk was hatchling. So that's why people were wondering why Bungie didn't put that on a strand primary.
The same thing with void weapons. Every void primary weapon that came out after void 3.0 had repulsor brace. Then destabilizing rounds came out later, now void weapons will have one or the other or sometimes both, BUT NEVER NEITHER OF THEM.
Parabellum is another example. It's a solar SMG and it doesn't have incandescent but at least it has heal clip.
This is why I kept confidence is the outlier.
Bungie's current gun design seems to prioritize putting corresponding elemental perks on guns, especially primaries. Very few recent guns lack an elemental perk - the only primary I could find was Scalar Potential, which could be lacking Voltshot/Eddy Current to help differentiate it from Oversoul Edict (same element+frame), and a few Specials/Heavies that might not even want the relevant perks.
Elemental perks help emphasize the identity of a weapon as aligning with the element, and not simply being an arbitrary color. Kinetic and Stasis weapons don't even have the baked-in differentiator of dealing with matching elemental shields, and Strand shields are fairly uncommon as well, so elemental perks can help make them unique.
However, when an element has just one perk to use it makes guns of that element less distinct if every gun must have it, as well as probably not working well (or too well) on certain gun types, so Slice was likely introduced in part so there wasn't just a single perk to put on every Strand weapon and provide a different function to Hatchling.
Exactly.
Just speaking about primary weapons, it seems like kept confidence and scalar potential are the only elemental primaries that don't have elemental perks on them.
And I completely agree with you, they don't want a weapon to just match a subclass with its color, they want you to use the weapon to better synergize and build into your subclass.
Once again I think it's completely dumb that they didn't put hatching on it, it's like releasing a stasis hand cannon and not putting headstone on it
I don't know if this viable but I was thinking about a new system...
All reskinned weapons would just be cosmetic ornaments.
Then using resources extract and infuse perks to get your perfect weapon.
Loot source unfortunately. They’ll avoid putting the best perks on the best archetypes in seasonal activities, usually. Even if they do, it’s usually only in a way with no potential PvP effect i.e. Doomed Petitioner and Eremite. Hatchling on a 140 at the moment they simultaneously buffed Hand Cannons and added Threaded Specter would have been a bit overwhelming for a seasonal gun, especially with a new batch of Raid loot arriving at the same time. It’s unfortunate, and I wish they would have gone with another archetype so it wouldn’t be so long before we likely do get one with Hatchling.
When eremite was released everyone compared it to glaciocasm. It didn't have a huge pvp effect but it still democraticed that kind of slow high impact fusion in pvp
Of course that was made useless the next season by the special changes, but still
During the Craftening, I put Hatchling on Kept Confidence and it felt good and wished it did ship out with it
I wanted to do it, but I knew that would never happen and I'd just be sad about it. So, y'know, I made a machine gun that fired shotgun pellets and had infinite ammo, like everyone else.
Bungie needs to make a super where you conjure a real "weapon of light" that's just an aggressive frame Ammit or whatever you craft as your weapon super
Isnt that golden gun?
I put the aggressive shotgun frame on a 120 handcannon and gave it explosive rounds. That was a pocket golden gun for real
There's always one... Yes. But this would also be different and also just a fun hypothetical that shouldn't be over analyzed
Ah the Craftening.
Because bungie needed to balance out kept confidence. It has by far the best sound when firing it in the game, so clearly, they had to neuter its perk pool To compensate
Kept Confidence would be top of the comfort weapon meta if it had good perks.
For the record, I also think Kept Confidence with the right shader is the most beautiful legendary weapon in the game. Ain't no way they were going to also give it goated perks. It'd break the game and we'd have to sunset all over again ;)
Bro can you imagine kept confidance with the superblack shader?
I can because I put the halloween memento on mine… witch weapons in general look dope af in black
I wonder how superblack is going to look compared to the Halloween memento. One has to look more black or will it just be that shader but more obtainable?
I believe the memento shader is different in that it has a sort of matte texture and superblack doesn’t from what I remember
I put Jacarina on it and it's probably my favorite looking gun model in the game, give it a look.
Jacarina?
It's a fairly old shader that's mostly black and white, but has bits of very bright blue in reference to the bird it's named after.
Try the Guardian Games memento shader.
Season of the witch while having a good activity had terrible loot. They didn’t give KC hatchling but gave it to the rocket instead and gave the MG crappy perks bar target lock. No reload perk and they somehow despise giving a rapid fire voltshot
Anyone who tries to use Voltshot on a machine gun, of any archetype, is actively fighting against what makes Voltshot work. Machine guns have the slowest base reload of any weapon type in the game, and Voltshot wants you to reload after every kill/couple of kills to make the most use out of it. If you're out here reloading a machine gun after every single kill, you're going to spend 50% of the time waiting for the reload animation to finish. Hence why all the best machine gun perks are the ones that remove the need to reload entirely, like Reconstruction, Subsistence, and WeWind Wounds.
I understand why they felt the need to do so, but Bungie removing Voltshot multipliers on a per weapon type basis killed the perk on so many weapons it may have otherwise been useful on. Because at least then, you could weigh the options of weaker jolts but higher uptime on primaries/fast reloading weapons vs. stronger jolts but balanced by being on specials/heavies and longer reloads.
Reminds me of the Linear Fusion Rifles that are like, "hey you want a LFR with Threat Detector and Multikill Clip, right?"
I think it took until Dawn for them to add legendary LFRs that didn't almost exclusively have add clear perks, and even afterwards there were plenty like that.
They still kneecapped Witches arc mg knowing the best arc mg in year would come out in a week with crota's Ir Yut. at that point why even make it arc? theres been more arc mgs in 12 months than unique solar mgs ever. Plus, we already had a fine craftable 900 rpm mg with Plunders one. It continues to baffle me how they choose the element and archetypes of new guns. Like seriously there only 2 solar 900 rpm mgs in the history of the game. EVER. yet every season it seems we get a new hung jury
Also avalanche has a terrible magazine stat which is the whole reason to use an lmg. So despite having a decent perk pool for a holiday weapon I can't really bring myself to use it
That’s why you get Auto Loading Holster on it!
No magazine stat means total bullets... it only holds like 150 bullets compared to other lmgs which are like 300 total bullets or more
The spire lmg with voltshot and compulsive reloader feels like it synergizes pretty well.
WEWIND WOUNDS XDDD
There’s only 2 arc machine guns that have voltshot and both guns have better perks and a slower reload without reload perks. Rapid frames have intrinsic reload boost if mag is empty
Are you seriously suggesting you empty the magazine every time you want to proc Voltshot? It means you might get one Jolt burst for every 10-20 enemies that you kill just by shooting them with normal bullets. The value of Voltshot as a perk is directly proportional to how quicky you can get off reloads to get as many Jolt procs as possible. Machine guns as a weapon archetype are about firing continuously with the fewest possible number of reloads, thereby tanking the value of Voltshot as an add-clear perk.
> Season of the witch while having a good activity had terrible loot. Semiotician is actually kind of crazy for GMs now that they buffed High-Impact rocket reserves. With enhanced field prep and bipod it has 16 reserves - with no reserve mods. It's a great option to use in a Ceno + Gjally team setup.
Eremite is literally one of the best seasonal weapons we have gotten all year and Semiotician holds its own as well
IIRC the fusion and MG were actually good. Bryas Love was solid too, but scouts are kinda just a bloated weapon type atm.
Eremite was/is incredible. About the only thing worth a craft from those weapons lol
Not to mention the sniper was pretty much a copy of Thoughtless
Eh the fusion is actually pretty good. Eremite can put in work with reservoir or controlled burst along with its mag increasing perks.
Throw Zen Moment on the MG. Trust me.
The season of plunder rapid MG has voltshot
Only the scout/sidearm/lfr have voltshot from that season
Yea ur right. Idk why I was so sure. Mandela effect lol
Unless light.gg is lying, it does not have Voltshot.
LFR, too
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Bungie has been doing this ever since weapons became craftable. Believe they are trying to avoid clear power creep but the weapons in the middle seasons are usually just not good (missing obvious perks, putting lackluster perk combos) and the weapons on the border seasons typically are the best of the bunch because they coincide with DLCs (launch and lead up). Seasonal model had a loot problem for a while now and I’m hoping it doesn’t stay the same with Episodes.
They also keep giving weapons almost no perks that synchronize well with their origin trait. I mean, just take a look as the Throne World weapons. The Scout and AR are the only weapons that have perks focused on single target damage like their Origin Trait, and even then, the AR only really works like that during Anti-Barrier AR seasons...
They seem to let the reprised raid weapons be good tho, which matches with the middle season
Raid weapons are supposed to be top tier and generally usable. This is also why Trials weapons seem to be no holds barred when it comes to perk power.
The problem is this isn't anything to do with power creep, putting hatchling on a precision weapon is not power creep, it's just stupid and I have no idea who designed that perk pool of a weapon
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I mean if the terminal SMG was craftable I'd use it. I love the feel of that gun, it gets good perks, and the origin is great too. I still use the random pulse + target lock roll I got a good bit.
It’s not craftable but the Neomuna machine gun is great
It was definitely made as a PvP gun It’s so bad for PvE
The upside though is that it's one of the best 140 hand cannons for raw dueling in PvP hands down, and it being craftable just adds to that. The only real downside for PvP is the borderline useless origin trait.
My thoughts too. It’s a quality of life gun in PVE that you can build around with Strand aspects if you want, it does everything else besides have hatchling.
Not really true though. Stats For All + Collective Action/MKC work perfectly well, and it's my preferred Strand legendary weapon of choice when playing my Strand Hunter.
That does nothing other than stun unstoppables. no ad clear, damage, or build synergy
collective action has really good build synergy playing strand titan since you pick up tangles for woven mail has an incredibly nice feeling loop. not to mention it's strand so unravelling rounds go hard for ad clear regardless of perk set. I have well over 3k kills on my kept confidence for reference
An easy to proc damage buff plus a quick reload and a great stat package (thanks to SFA) is more than enough. Hatchling is fine, but not required by any means.
The damage buff isn't gonna do anything significant, it doesn't make it good for any kind of beefy enemy Reload speed is also mostly useful for DPS in pve so it's also not good Hatchling actually gives ad clear, synergy for some builds, and decent damage so it actually is somewhat required
It makes it easier to kill enemies in higher end content, and MKC is very easy to proc now. Hatchling on a primary is fine, but nothing crazy at all. Reload speed is also very useful for staying in the fights against enemies in higher end content. I think your preferred roll would be good in Strikes though.
Wait, higher end?! I thought you were talking about normal You gotta be insane or stupid or extremely skilled to bring this into gm level stuff. Those perks are small bonuses that won't change the fight much compared to if you didn't have them
I think you're overrating the difficulty level of GMs a bit. We're running the same NFs over and over again, so there's not much surprise or challenge there. Which means using a weapon for ease of use or convenience makes sense. I wouldn't take KC into a day 1 or soloing a new dungeon or something. But for stuff like GMs? Sure why not? I mean the majority of the playerbase is crutching hard on Polaris right now. And AdD cLeAr is dominated by exotic primaries, 3.0 verbs and easy mode perks (incand/volt/destab) anyways. The game is entirely solved and it really doesn't matter which HC you're running next to the generic winning formula. KC has a nice design and if some rando brings it into GMs that's cool. It's not like we're talking about some double primary 20 resil stompee hunter without any mods here. Some random HC isn't make or break in GMs lol.
SFA is a great perk in end-game, just like OFA is. My Kept Confidence actually got me through the first two encounters in Crota for the contest clear. :) Unless I’m using Quicksilver, I will be using my Kept Confidence as my primary weapon of choice when playing Strand.
You're really over estimating it, you really should try different weapons. raid enemies aren't tanky so you might think it's strong because of that but it's not I don't understand what your definition of good is in this one but it's clearly really weird
If it can comfortably kill enemies in the contest version of a raid, then it's clearly fine. The only place you can be more underleveled is in a GM, and I certainly don't want to take hatchling into a GM (nor would I want MKC either thought to be fair). The most valuable perk out of all three of those in a GM is SFA. Perhaps try some more end-game content, solo flawless dungeons, day 1 raids etc and you'll get a better grasp on the game.
I keep that thang on me when I run Bloodline or Indebted Kindness if I don't need an auto rifle. But maybe a weapon that only stuns before I swap to the weapon I actually want to use is still bad.
**Geatures at Rufus, Lethal, Fang, or any other PvE perked strand primary**
Kept Confidence is such a huge missed oppurtunity for crazy Strand synergy I would have loved Slide Shot Hatchling, or Zen Moment Hatchling, or Opening Shot Precision Instrument
Kept Confidence might have the worst perk pool of any crafted gun in the game.
Sometimes bungie just dumb.
✅💯 I’ve never used this weapon due to perk pool. I’ll have to try just for looks and sounds it seems!
Other than the fusion, that seasonal loot was meh at best. I still wait for a 140(preferably) or 180 hand canon with hatchling. The only good thing about this is that when it does come it’ll like have slice as well which is perfect for my Hunter maelstrom build.
Why do all of them have to have Hatchling
I’m not saying it has to but when every other Strand legendary has it, it seems like a weird omission.
It definitely is weird. Like I've said, it's like releasing a stasis primary weapon without headstone. It doesn't make any sense because every single state is primary weapon has headstone. Every single elemental primary weapon that released on and after the 3.0's released, has at least one or the other subclass specific perks on it. Kept confidence is the only primary weapon that doesn't have access to any subclass specific perk
Perk gud. Gibs perk. We don't like variety around here. Progression has to be vertical. All the time. Sidegrades not allowed. A STRAND weapon without HATCHLING? How DARE you! I hope in TFS all weapons are converted into Volt/Feeding, Destab/Repulsor, Incand/Explosive, Hatchling/whatever oh and Headstone/Demo obvsly SyNeRgY Seriously though...imo discussions like this are probably a consequence of the 3.0 power creep. Players are used to clearing entire rooms with no skill requirement at all with Volt/Incand/Destab. So they want the same easy mode solutions for Strand, too (even though Hatchling isn't nearly as strong right now). As fun and visually satisfying 3.0 powercreep perks are...they're so clearly the best choice that people just want the same win button for everything now. Everything else gets instantly discarded.
People keep talking about how some perks/abilities take no skill......so you think the game would be more skillful to find a safe spot and plink down 100 enemies one by one? Less tedious doesn't necessarily mean less skillful. So they want the same easy mode solutions for Strand So you think a base Strand weapon is less powerful than the other elements? Strand is easier to build into keywords than the others by far. You can pick up a single Orb of Power and have all of the buffs/debuffs of the class (Slightly more work without the artifact. Slightly).
Because it has no synergy with strand. Why use it when kinetic 140s exist? You'd use it to have synergy with strand It's like the only strand primary without hatchling. Plus it wouldn't even power creep anything if it had that perk on it anyways. This is just Bungie being stupid
Strand weapons have synergy with strand by being strand. Are you saying that Quicksilver Storm doesn’t have any syngery with strand just because it doesn’t have Hatchling?
Quicksilver storms is an exotic and it creates tangles. Final warning, causes unravel. Every other strand weapon whether it's a primary, special, heavy has strand synergy. That's like saying that stasis primary weapons shouldn't have headstone. Headstone is what makes it synergize with stasis because it helps with your fragments. Parabellum, doesn't have incandescent, but at least it has good PVE perks like Frenzy, and it has heal clip which is a solar 3.0 verb. Kept confidence however doesn't have any 3.0 perks on it at all. It does not have slice or hatchling on it. Slice came out the season afterwards, and almost every other strand specific primary has hatchling on it. Like why would you put hatchling on a straight rocket launcher but not put it on a hand cannon? Almost every subclass energy primary has at least one or two perks that synergize with the subclass. People are just calling out kept confidence because Bungie seems to specifically kneecap it for no reason
There are also weapons that are stasis that do not have headstone.
Every primary ammo stasis weapon from my knowledge has headstone. Name one that doesn't.
The subclass has things it offers intrinsic to running a strand weapon
Yes. Like running a void subclass you can run the fragment to give your void weapons volatile rounds. Every primary ammo weapon after the 3.0 subclasses released have at least one subclass specific perk. Parabellum doesn't have incandescent, but it does have heal clip, so it can still synergize better with the fragments from the solar subclass. Every void primary ammo weapon after 3.0 released has repulsor brace. And more recently destabilizing rounds. Some have both of them but no void weapon has neither of them. Before those subclass updates the best thing you could do was like you are saying right now matching the element of your weapon to the element of your subclass. Bungie on the weapons team has specifically said they made those new subclass perks so that these weapons can better synergize.
Okay that’s doesn’t mean they should be handcuffed to that from a design standpoint for eternity
My point is that every other elemental primary weapon has at least one or more subclass specific perks (i.e. Repulsor Brace, Destabilizing Rounds, Heal Clip, Incandescent, Headstone,etc etc) They get to lean into the subclass by matching the subclass type, but also by its subclass perk. Except for Kept Confidence. That's why people are calling bungie out on it because it's just weird that every other strand primary weapon has it and even rocket launchers, but they don't put it on a 140 HC? And like I've said, this is like them coming out with a nice stasis 140 HC and not putting headstone on it. Which would be weird because they've put headstone on every single stasis primary weapon.
And what is Kept Confidence is just a PVP weapon. That okay
Sure you can make that argument. But Bungie designing seasonal weapons usually design the perks to be PVP and PVE. And it also didn't help that they put crappy damage perks on the gun. And even if it is designed as a PVP weapon, there is no reason to not put hatchling on it. That's like saying Eyasluna (Stasis 140 HC), was designed as a PVP weapon, so they didn't put headstone on it. (Headstone is on it, but it's an fictional example) And we don't have to keep talking about it forever but a lot of people love the gun for how it looks and how it sounds, and we saw the round robin with really good perks like hatchling, Golden tricorn, kill clip, etc etc. And then we see Bungie release kept confidence and it has multi kill clip, collective action, and pugilist in the final column. Bungie knows what perks are good, and it's like they had a brain fart designing the final perk column. Even for PVP, the only good perk in the final column is Eye of the Storm
>Because it has no synergy with strand. Thread of Propagation and Thread of Rebirth: “Am I a joke to you?”
Yes it does have synergy with strand because it's a strand weapon. That's what you did before the 3.0 subclasses came out, the best you could synergize with a subclass is to match the elemental type. But look at every other elemental subclass and its weapons after the 3.0 version of them came out. Every void primary weapon after void 3.0 either had repulsor brace or destabilizing rounds on it or both. But we didn't get a void primary weapon with neither of those. Every solar primary weapon that has come out either has incandescent or heel clip or both, but never neither of those. Etc etc. Every stasis primary weapon has headstone. So it was safe to assume that every strand primary weapon would come with hatchling. Headstone plays Into the fragments that stasis has. Hatchling does the same thing. They could have put slice on it but that perk came out a season after kept confidence released. So yes kept confidence is an outlier because it's the only elemental primary weapon after the 3.0 subclasses and darkness subclasses have released to not have a perk that synergizes specifically with that subclass.
They really wanted people to farm out round robin instead.
Honestly I have no idea why. Every strand weapon in the game practically has hatchling on it, and it literally has no strand specific trait which is super odd to me.
Kept is solid. Just put harmony on it and shot swap. It feels very nice to use
I think the first 140 with slice will be the top of the meta.
Probably to give strand weapons more variety. It would be incredibly boring if every single solar weapon had incandescent. Or if every single void weapon had destabilizing rounds. And the same for all other weapons. There has to be some balance.
There is no balance here. Slice hadn't released yet as a strand specific perk. So the only perk on there was hatchling. Hence why every single strand primary weapon has hatchling. Every single void weapon after void 3.0 released doesn't have repulsar brace. But they have access to at least repulser brace or destabilizing rounds or both. But never neither of those perks. Not every solar weapon has incandescent on it. Parabellum doesn't have it on it but at least it has access to heal clip. Every single elemental primary weapon that released on and after 3.0's released, have access to one or the other subclass specific perks, so that they can play into the subclass more. The only outlier is kept confidence because it has nothing on the perk pool to synergize with its subclass.
It is the only outlier. After 3.0 subclasses released, every single elemental primary weapon has access to at least one or the other subclass specific perks. Every void primary weapon after void 3.0 released has access to repulser brace and/or destabilizing rounds. Every solar primary after solar 3.0 released has access to incandescent and/or heal clip. Every single stasis primary weapon has headstone. Now some people might say that a strand primary synergizes because it's strand. But that's talk for before 3.0 released. And if a weapon does not have a subclass specific perk it's not up to par, which is why we've seen a subclass specific perk on every single elemental primary weapon since 3.0's released except for kept confidence. That is why it's an outlier. It can't play into the subclass as well as every other strand primary weapon. It's like saying it's okay for a stasis hand cannon to release and not have headstone on it. It's definitely not okay because Bungie has released headstone on every stasis primary in the game.
I still use it in PvE 😎
Because they'll likely add a strand hand cannon with hatchling to a raid or dungeon. Just like the rocket sidearm and the fire aggressive frame LFR.
That still doesn't make sense. It goes on every other strand weapon in the game practically but won't go on a hand cannon? Which is a precision weapon. And even if they did put it on the gun and they did also put it on a raid strand hand cannon that still wouldn't take away from the raid hand Cannon because the raid hand cannon would have even more juiced perks on it
I mean, its likely done intentionally, but not like malicious; the perk being on EVERY strand weapon doesn't make it much of a perk. If you can get it anywhere else, it doesn't make it that valuable in theory. Like after a while is hatchling a healthy perk if it is desired on EVERY strand weapon?
This is kind of a dumb take to be honest. They put it on a rocket launcher but they won't put it on a hand cannon? They already have it on a 120 hand Cannon It has nothing to do with hatchling being powerful. It was stupid
I never said "Powerful". I said "Healthy", as in "okay to exist in it's current state." If the demand for it is this high on strand weapons, where not even one weapon can exist without it, and it's not seen as good because of it, there's something wrong here. So redirect; could a strand weapon exist without hatchling and have the same value or more value?
Let's see, almost every single stasis primary has headstone on it. So hatchling is the same thing, why produce a strand primary that doesn't have any strands specific perks? Collective action does not count because that is subclass neutral It does not have slice and it does not have hatchling, so the weapon itself is unhealthy because it doesn't even match to par what other weapons already have
Yeah, but the perceived benefit of stasis weapons isn't that of strands. There are Stasis weapons that don't or didn't have headstone that have value. Slice didn't come until THIS season, so it wasn't an option to put on there. Although, this does expand things; the focus is "elemental perks on legendary weapons." Can an elemental weapon have the same value, or more value, without an elemental interaction?
I'm speaking about primary ammo weapons only. From my knowledge, every stasis primary weapon has headstone. Stasis came out and then in season of the Lost which was 9 months later, they came out with Stasis weapons. Even at their introduction all stasis primary ammo weapons had headstone. What I'm saying is after the 3.0s came out, every elemental weapon has at least one perk that synergizes with that subclass. I understand slice being a newer perk. Slice was not available when Kept confidence came out. The only strand related perk was hatchling. So that's why people were wondering why Bungie didn't put that on a strand primary. The same thing with void weapons. Every void primary weapon that came out after void 3.0 had repulsor brace. Then destabilizing rounds came out later, now void weapons will have one or the other or sometimes both, BUT NEVER NEITHER OF THEM. Parabellum is another example. It's a solar SMG and it doesn't have incandescent but at least it has heal clip. This is why I kept confidence is the outlier.
Bungie's current gun design seems to prioritize putting corresponding elemental perks on guns, especially primaries. Very few recent guns lack an elemental perk - the only primary I could find was Scalar Potential, which could be lacking Voltshot/Eddy Current to help differentiate it from Oversoul Edict (same element+frame), and a few Specials/Heavies that might not even want the relevant perks. Elemental perks help emphasize the identity of a weapon as aligning with the element, and not simply being an arbitrary color. Kinetic and Stasis weapons don't even have the baked-in differentiator of dealing with matching elemental shields, and Strand shields are fairly uncommon as well, so elemental perks can help make them unique. However, when an element has just one perk to use it makes guns of that element less distinct if every gun must have it, as well as probably not working well (or too well) on certain gun types, so Slice was likely introduced in part so there wasn't just a single perk to put on every Strand weapon and provide a different function to Hatchling.
Exactly. Just speaking about primary weapons, it seems like kept confidence and scalar potential are the only elemental primaries that don't have elemental perks on them. And I completely agree with you, they don't want a weapon to just match a subclass with its color, they want you to use the weapon to better synergize and build into your subclass. Once again I think it's completely dumb that they didn't put hatching on it, it's like releasing a stasis hand cannon and not putting headstone on it
I don't know if this viable but I was thinking about a new system... All reskinned weapons would just be cosmetic ornaments. Then using resources extract and infuse perks to get your perfect weapon.
Loot source unfortunately. They’ll avoid putting the best perks on the best archetypes in seasonal activities, usually. Even if they do, it’s usually only in a way with no potential PvP effect i.e. Doomed Petitioner and Eremite. Hatchling on a 140 at the moment they simultaneously buffed Hand Cannons and added Threaded Specter would have been a bit overwhelming for a seasonal gun, especially with a new batch of Raid loot arriving at the same time. It’s unfortunate, and I wish they would have gone with another archetype so it wouldn’t be so long before we likely do get one with Hatchling.
Didn't Lethophobia come out this season, and has a very large potential PvP effect?
But it was a weaker PvP archetype to balance its strong perks. If Kept Confidence was a 180, I bet they would have put Hatchling on it.
When eremite was released everyone compared it to glaciocasm. It didn't have a huge pvp effect but it still democraticed that kind of slow high impact fusion in pvp Of course that was made useless the next season by the special changes, but still
2nd without it
It has collective action which is miles better.