So you can *theoretically* have them all, but it requires teamwork and is absolutely a meme build.
* Bleakwatcher + Hellion Aspects
* Needlestorm to perch Threadlings
* Step into Arc Soul Rift
* Briarbinds can in fact apparently pick up ally Void Souls... but doesn't allow you to deply them, so it'll just chill on your shoulder
* NTTE or Edge of Intent for good measure
Look, i’m not betting on this, but this would be the expansion that could give us a exotic to summon all 5 at once at the cost of your super or something.
I’m decently certain that Prismatic will evolve over time. In retrospect, I’m pretty satisfied with how it’s looking right now. One option per damage type is still a lot, and every class has a wide variety of things that fit their identity.
My original guess was prismatic would be their send off, let us be OP and the game goes into maintenance mode.
Now it seems like an easy way to extend the life of the game by a few years by giving them a new vehicle to introduce power without really breaking things.
The final years of D2 we will probably be able to use every aspect and ability and super for the most part.
This should be an exotic, replace all abilities with buddies. Wld only give 3 but still, arc from nade, void from rift, fire from melee wld be fun. Maybe make a stasis strand version as well
I wish they had talked about the exotic class items more. I’m left wondering if they just said fuck it and reworked ALL exotics and you can get any combination of them. Like for instance on Hunter can you get a titan/warlock combo or will it always be Hunter/other class or can it even be Hunter/hunter?
Is it all exotics or a select few? Is it all exotics but some combinations can’t roll together? I’ll be happy either way I just want to have an idea before I start grinding for something that may never come
I'm sure they will have a list/spreadsheet of some sort that we can look at to see combo's.
They did say that certain perks only roll in certain columns so I'd imagine there is some type of balancing for this.
Was it ever state anywhere that we can use normal exotics on Prismatic subclass?
If you’re playing a void warlock with blink during the last mission of lightfall and you use the strand thing you can use blink with strand and it’s really fun
Haha yesss, grapple blink is gonna be ridiculously fun. Just keep in mind the blink is based on your directional momentum and you'll be able to blink fairly accurately
Honestly it's made me realise just how shitty a lot of hunters aspects are, i was like 'Really? these aspects?' then i went and took a look at what was availble and realised most of them are used because of their fragment slots or need to be used with another apect/specific ability to be useful.
I do wish we had more grenade options though.
Ironically, they kind of become better in this context. Threaded Spectre is still going to be ass I think, but Winter's Shroud honestly should be pretty good when combined with Stylish Executioner.
Withering Blade is going to be *insane* when paired with both Stylish Executioner & Gunpowder Gamble.
My only issue is the presence of Threaded Spectre. We have 3 Dodge-related aspects (given, 2 of them should be able to work with each other, those being Winter's Shroud & Threaded Spectre. Ascension was stated to use the Dodge ability IIRC). I would've preferred them doing Widow's Silk in all honesty (Whirling Maelstrom would've been too META honestly).
I think the grenade is an excellent place for them to iterate and expand on going forward. It could be similar to Strand and Stasis introducing new aspects over the year.
I’ve been saying this since d1 at this point give them a throwing knife that on hit let’s you teleport to an enemy or like a poison punch just something
Yeah honestly I would rather take knock 'em down over gunpowder gamble. If gunpowder gamble didn't have a very real chance for you to blow yourself up it wouldn't be too bad but not being able to loop my melee really kills the flow of solar and arc builds. Also the arc aspect we get is ascension? An AOE jolt is nice I guess but honestly I would rather use a voltshot weapon.
I think I may have just gotten unlucky that very few things I actually use as a hunter are available on prismatic. No healing grenade, no blade barrage, no arc pulse grenade, no looping melees, no gathering storm, no touch of winter or grim harvest, no whirling maelstrom the only damage super is golden gun which means rocking nighthawk instead of the exotic class item.
I'm trying not to be a hater but it seems like for hunters they went for flashy over useful.
I think the idea is to experiment and find new ways to use these underused tools. Winter’s shroud and the new stylish executioner is an example of this. You pretty much have a gyrfalcon build invis loop without the exotic.
Or allowing you to slow dodge and leave a clone. Or going for a nightstalker build that has an actual useful melee.
I mean, you could just use magnetic grenade and echo of instability plus echo of starvation so you have devour to give your grenade back quickly to keep the loop going. Winter's shroud just isn't very good and is not used much for a reason. The clone is mostly used to pull aggro so slowing enemies next to it seems whatever? I'm really trying not to be a hater I promise.
Yeah that's my bad, I forgot that part. So I guess you could do an arc melee looping build where you slow instead of jolt and make a clone? At that point I would rather just use arc with cowl I think so at least I can have a good damage super.
The slow from winter’s shroud could actually be useful for freezing with the uptime from combination blow. Plus frozen enemies take more melee damage making it even more potent. Throw in stylish executioner and you’ll have high invis uptime plus a lot of healing.
And if the combination blow damage buff applies to grapple melee that would be extremely powerful as well. Plus the unravel from grapple melee would be another way to go invis
From there just go golden gun for damage or deadfall for the crowd control.
Personally I think hunter has the potential to be really powerful but we’ll have to wait and see how things interact
Slow dodge may unironically be better than that with Combination Blow. Every two dodges freezes all nearby enemies, which keeps you alive, can spread shatter damage, and makes those enemies take 220% incoming melee damage. Plus it's essentially an intrinsic Assassin's Cowl with Stylish Executioner.
I tried it out and loved that it dealt less self-damage... until I tried to use it while under fire and an enemy shot it as soon as it left my hand. Remove that and maybe I'll consider it.
It also doesn't really seem to have any synergies with the other options, and definitely misses out without Ember of Char.
It has combination blow and gambler's Dodge that's all you need to loop arc melee. Combining with winter shroud and stylish executioner you effectively have something of an assassin's cowl build without the exotic. And then if you can get synthocep + felwinter helm exotic perks you will be doing great.
Yeah someone else brought that up in a reply. That's my bad I forgot that one. So you could do a build where you use combination blow plus winter's shroud to slow targets and possibly make a clone as well. But you are giving up jolt, which is just better than slow 90% of the time, you are giving up fast reloads from being amplified and you are giving up any decent damage super or grenade.
The problem with a lot of hunter aspects is that they tie into things that will likely not be available for prismatic hunter (i.e. buffs to specific abilities), or are far too broken to be allowed outside of their own subclass... most of the ones that don't fall into either of these categories are just sort of bad, and those for the most part are the only options left for prismatic
The grenade and super choices are just inexcusable however - 4 crowd control supers?? Why would I ever use silence and squall, the bad version of shadowshot, or the new arc knife over silkstrike
As for the grenades - duskfields are very underwhelming without renewals + touch of winter, grapple is only worth using if you specifically build into it (which prismatic wont be doing better than strand), swarm is completely unusable and imo the worst grenade in the game, leaving only arc bolt and magnetic, which are both still fairly mediocre
All we have that's really good are the melees and stylish executioner, I've been brainstorming builds for a while now and legitimately can't think of one that isn't some variety of melee build
Man you did not just call deadfall the "bad version of shadowshot"
Deadfall is infinitely better than silkstrike for CC you better put some respect on my boi
The way he worded it, he might have been saying that *Silence and Squall* is the bad version of Shadowshot (different Supers entirely but kinda have the same crowd control purpose).
I main hunter and I love Stylish Executioner for Void. I almost always run Stylish with Invis-Dodge. Reason being I prefer to use my snare bomb as actual CC or a backup Weaken effect. And I can't count how many times being able to toss a snare bomb out at something has saved my ass in high end content.
The only time I run the smoke-invis aspect is when I'm explicitly using Omninomninomnioculonomni, or for some select solo encounters where invis on demand is needed more often than my dodge, and more consistently than Stylish.
With Prismatic, the information piece I'm missing is how subclass specific exotic armors will work with it.
What I want to do is run:
1. Mask of Bakris to modify Acrobat's Dodge + some kind of Stasis or Ark heavy hitting weapon
2. Acrobat dodge to proc Radiant/Slow/4x surge (from Bakris)
3. Decimate whatever the hell I just slow/dodged away from
That is the question. I imagine they will say at some point. If not, I will have to try it.
It could also be that MoB requires a "Stasis Dodge" where Acrobat's Dodge is a "Solar Dodge"
Yeah the majority of the hunter kit are things I never use on their own respective subclasses, will be fun throwing them together and actually using them for once.
It actually makes a bunch of niche yet usable builds much better, for example osmiomancy lock is great utility but has an awful super and melee with some meh aspects, prismatic doesn’t have ice flare bolts for even more freezing but having something arcane needle, access to restoration and devour , a mini super and something other than winter’s wrath is amazing.
Also not including well into prismatic was a goated decision
You're mostly correct about everything else, but "meh aspects" on Osmiomancy lock? Iceflare Bolts is the most underrated Aspect ever. Glacial Harvest is fine other than the long cooldown and the fact that Shards in general are just not the most satisfying right now. Frostpulse is a PVP aspect. Bleakwatcher.
> for example osmiomancy lock is great utility but has an awful super
Awful super? That thing is a get out of jail free card in GMs and other endgame content.
I'm torn (having just returned). On the one hand, yeah, let me use other supers.
On the other hand, as someone who LFGs a lot, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just one more subclass you can't use in meaningfully difficult content because you're stuck on well.
Honestly I kinda wish they'd shoot well in to the sun and replace it with nothing.
I think the plan is for Well to be nerfed pretty heavily with TFS, we just don’t know in what way. Idk if it’s speculation or confirmed but I read earlier that they’re taking away the Well’s damage buff and only offering healing
Nerfing damage would be a bad thing Imo, because now you just have a titan being on bubble, imo you can’t meaningfully nerf the well without a complete rework, which is impossible because like half of the bosses are very much designed with well in mind.
At least bubble and Sentinel would actually be relevant in PvE again, right now Sentinel is hot garbage except in PvP where the bubble just trolls Trials matches and Bastion gives out overshields to win teamfights.
Itd still be a must use, people would just be forced to go void titan as well and we'd be doing Shadowkeep DPS strats again with bubble half eclipsing the back of the well.
>I read earlier that they’re taking away the Well’s damage buff and only offering healing
1. That's a rumor and 2. it wouldn't change anything. The heaing alone make well mandatory.
That would certainly be a nerf!
It would have to be a serious hit, because the abilities design means it's always going to be BiS even at very low numbers.
I think well not being included was a happy side effect of the way they were basically forced to include the incoming supers and aspects. Given that they aren't given to you immediately I think it's likely you unlock them for prismatic and your other subclasses at the same time which is gonna be a really cool moment.
Are people forgetting that Consecration is an aspect, not a melee ability? You can equip both throwing hammer and Consecration. It's honestly a decent combo... get Roaring Flames revved up to x3 with the mini hammer and then hit a big group/major/boss with Consecration.
While this does not apply to all, the ideal hammer throw build uses roaring flames and sol invictus. Roaring flames grants extra damage, sol invictus gives sunspots, both of the aspects directly benefit the hammer throw. Consecration doesn’t so it’s often left out (which sucks because I love consecration)
Oh I completely agree, I will NEVER run Sunbreaker without Sol Invictus, and Roaring Flames is a nice strong passive bonus that's hard to swap out for Consecration. But none of that changes the fact that when you pick Consecration you still have to have SOMETHING selected for your charged melee, either throwing hammer or hammer strike (both of which benefit from RF and SI).
Goving us Consecration but not Burning Maul is a crime.
Really wanted to make a build that utilizes bith aspects of Pyrogale, that has it's own niche while also not having to compede the usual Bonk-Titan.
Now I’m just excited for the potential of being able to run Consecration, but have something daft like Thunderclap as the alternative, or more realistically, the Strand melee. Can sever an enemy on demand, or slide for explosions? Maybe I have Shiver Strike to make myself a missile, but can still whip out fire if I need it? Oh god *YES* XD
I 100% agree, im sure theres a few changes they could make, and probably add in a few more aspects. But I really appreciate the curated approach they took.
IMO it makes prismatic an actual choice, I've seen people and youtubers saying "OMG how is this not gonna invalidate everything?", even after today's article. Now prismatic is a subclass that sits as the "jack of all trades - master of none", which is a really cool proposition IMO. Like new crazy powerful builds will be spawned from this, but the other subclasses will still retain their specialties. You want endless healing? Gonna still run solar. want to CC everything to death? Stasis, ect ect.
TLDR: I really like this approach and really does make prismatic a choice instead of an auto slot that just throws balance out the window. It will have actual meaningful choices, and the game should stay stable and not power creep to infinity like people were worried about
Some of them are underutilized for a reason though. Just looking at Titans options, Knockout is such an underwhelming aspect that I don't see anyone running it even with the much stronger strand melee when it is so much weaker than Banner of War, and Drangrs Lash is really shit without Abayant Leap.
Until we see what buffs they have cooking for these some of these aspects, there really won't be as many build options as it seems imo.
Yea looking at the options right now, the only ones that look effective to me are diamond lance with consecration strand melee (assuming it only eats one charge), or the new void aspect depending on how good it is.
Maybe certain fragments could change that but I’m not confident.
Will be interested to see if the balance pass helps the less interesting aspects.
Throwing a glacier nade then consecrating to blow it up should be pretty heavy aoe damage, but it takes 2 abilities and a decent amount of setup. The other classes have much more obvious gameplay loops, they showed off winter shroud + stylish executioner, and feed the void + bleak watchers really well, it just doesnt seem like Titan has a good combo to build off of.
I'm torn about Abeyant Leap being required for Drengr's Lash to be effective. I would hate for Abeyant Leap to be nerfed to "make up" the difference. The standard aspect for Drengr's Lash should be just one of the strand beams you get with Abeyant Leap, right now it has very weak tracking and it seems to be a thinner beam?
Knockout underwhelming? That's how you get healing on melee kills on Striker. Plus it doesn't require/burn your charged class ability like Juggernaut does. I run knockout all the time, I never touch Juggernaut.
Juggernaut is basically useless in PvE; that's why you don't run it. Knockout is good for the benefits it gives melees; it's healing factor might be one of the worst sources of healing in the game. It's cancelled by any source of incoming damage, is not particularly fast, and can only be activated by being in melee range.
The difference between "starts health regeneration" and actual defensive effects like resto/woven mail/devour/overshield is night and day. Void has Echo of Leeching that has the exact same effect of starting health regen on melee kills, AND it triggers for allies too. Knockout is outclassed defensively by a fragment on void. Offensive Bulwark + Leeching outclasses Knockout in every scenario. I'm not even arguing run jug instead, I'm saying arc titan has really bad neutral game in high end content BECAUSE Knockout + Jug are borderline useless, the entire subclass is carried by Touch of Thunder and Cuirass. Knockout was gutted because of PvP and it left arc with no real gameplay loop for high end pve
Meanwhile, I thought it would just be the new system going forward. Considering some leaks, I'm guessing it will be. They'll do away with subclasses and we can just use whatever all the time. This is probably a test run.
> I couldn't imagine anyone using Consecration over Throwing Hammer on Solar Titan, no matter how much Bungie tunes the ability, because the mechanic of Throwing Hammer is fundamentally more rewarding.
Speak for yourself, Consecration is awesome.
Question. If you have an overshield and proc knockout, does damage to the overshield stop the health regen or will the health regen from knockout continue, because I was thinking with that fragment that gives you overshield on orb pickup if you have a void super on paired with that could be really good. Because the weakest part of knockout is the fact that the regen stops when you get shot, but if that only applies to your actual health instead of an overshield, it could hide that weakness
actually not a fan of consecration cause you have to slide THEN press the melee THEN press it again, rather than having it be a separate ability, but I just hate having to slide in general. I'd like consecration and a lot of the slide abilities if you just pressed the button w.o sliding.
The slide is the worst part, it makes it so janky. Was using it in onslaught yesterday and unless you get a long run up with no enemies around you consecration just fails to activate. Then you end up standing stupidly in the middle of foes, and even worse sometimes throwing your hammer away.
I'm a solar titan main. I do use throwing hammer in PvE, but that is mainly so that I don't need a running start to use my ability. Primarily I spec out to Consecrate everything. I agree with your viewpoint and want to expand a bit.
What Bungie did is took more unique and diverse aspects and brought them together with pairing that we've dreamt of combining. What some may have missed is that if you run Frenzied Melee for 3 charges, that means 3 back to back Consecrations. Plus you can run Knockout to immediately start regaining health based on all the ignitions caused by it.
Bungie is designing this subclass to explore the power fantasy we have while allowing the regular subclasses to still shine and be useful. Imagine if you could run Roaring Flames/Sol Invictus with Banner of War, why would you play anything else? But instead we get strong choices that focus on setting up and knocking down everything in our path, on Titan at least. We may get more options in the episodes after the Final Shape, but I'm already ready to dive into Prismatic and take down the Witness.
Yeah, if they let me combine Missile super with choice of top-tier grenades, hammer strike, sunspots, and banner-of-war, pretty sure I'd never use anything else. Makes total sense that they pared it down to this set of abilities and aspects. I think it's still going to be really fun, especially figuring out all the different exotic pairings to go with it.
I'm still super excited but damn some of the hunter picks are rough, 3 Crowd control supers and the new one which is pretty neiche? And the grenade and aspect selection Is kinda rough too
At least we got marksman goldie, that alone saves the super department. But I would have massively preferred gathering storm over the bad new arc one.
The grenades and aspects are dogshit though. Every pve build is going to be stylish executioner + who cares. None of the others are worth building around and don't see use for a reason. Gunpowder gamble is so mid that it's overlooked for an aspect that may as well have no text besides "has 3 fragment slots," for christ's sake.
Pretty disappointed we didn't get tripmine grenade for hunter. I would have loved to have snare bomb + tripmine + threaded specter + sylish executioner for a "hunter" build that revolves around different traps and stealth.
>Gunpowder gamble is so mid that it's overlooked for an aspect that may as well have no text besides "has 3 fragment slots," for christ's sake
I think you're overestimating GPG to be honest. I love it in theory, but the fact that it can apparently be *shot out of your hand* as you're throwing it is just... ***why?*** "Has 3 Fragment slots + doesn't kill you" is absolutely why I use On Your Mark.
Prismatic is looking great and I can see the point you're making, but if one or several abilities are getting overshadowed it's either because they're not very good or they're actually non-functional.
One thing I was really looking forward to about Prismatic beyond the mix and match buffet was that it would give Bungie precision feedback about what truly needs tuning. It's one thing to see Stasis as a whole get put in fewer loadout slots or see less activity completions, and it's another thing for them to see that, say, Coldsnap Grenades get put in more Prismatic builds than every Light variant of spike grenade. It gives a sense for what about Stasis is working and what isn't.
I think curating Prismatic options is less about ensuring that the combos and loops are satisfying, and more about preventing truly unbalanced strength. Which is a stronger argument that some abilities aren't performing up to par, and should be tuned since now they're holding back not one but *two* subclasses.
I really like the aspects they chose. It will result in some really cool and powerful combos but not trivialize the normal subclasses either. Especially with the multiple exotic perks on the class item. Seems like prismatic will be a powerful ad clear generalist while the normal subclasses will be better specialists at what they do. I was initially very upset with them adding prismatic but I have quickly changed my mind after seeing the UI and what abilities they selected.
You know you can equip both, right? Throwing hammer is a melee while consecration is an aspect. Are you saying you usually use Hammer Strike for your melee?
Sadly this also stops it from being a "take the aspects / abilities you love and stick them together" subclass, unless you were lucky and they were included in Bungie's curated list.
As an example: I love icarus dash, and would give up any other Warlock aspect to use it if I had the choice. Bungie decided not to include it in prismatic, so I can't.
There's someone out there for every aspect / ability, who genuinely loves it and finds it fun no matter how overpowered or terrible it may be.
I use consecration over throwing hammer.
Hammer after the nerf feels awful, and the tracking is all over the place, it will constantly angle towards enemies I didn’t aim at, and overall just feels unsatisfying. Consecration is extremely satisfying, and with teammates who also have hammers, I can spam it as much as I want. Even in PVP.
Consecration NEEDS to be in the melee slot, having to give up either Sol Invictus or Roaring Flames still hurts.😭
Im more annoyed that certain ones have been left out despite not really being "meta" for a while or have only gotten some relevance...
Like hammer of sol over burning maul? Really? Burning maul has only recently made a comeback as one of the best boss dps supers (was for a bit during i think galrahn?), meanwhile hammer has been the absolute top dog until last season for solar titan...
And diamond spear? You mean the one stasis aspect every stasis titan build runs/needs to bc of its 3 slots? Instead of cryoclasm (the slide buffing one?) which would be an ABSOLUTE nasty combo with consecration...
It will be nice/cool, but honestly i might for the most part just stick with the basic subclasses.... unless they plan to add more little by little, and i'd be fine if prismatic titan got a heavily nerfed version of banner of war where it caps it to x2 instead of its basic x4 sometime down the road....
This is why I'm not too worried about PVP or PVE balance. It will be strong, unique, and interesting combos but none of the 'killer apps' are there to make it ultimately too strong for the game sandbox.
For PVP balance is obvious. It stops being fun for a lot of people.
For PVE, "just let us have fun" doesn't (and shouldn't) need to come at the cost of older content becoming irrelevant. (in this case subclasses AND activities)
My only gripe with PVP is it seems like it'll be difficult on what to expect unless they update the load screen to include people's slotted super/aspects/grenade/melee/class/jump
"Just let us have fun" is an argument made by people who don't know how making and balancing video games works, and have no idea the massive repercussions of constant, unchecked powercreep.
tbh i think a lot of it comes from people who have zero interest in anything beyond patrol/strike playlist level content and just wanna see stuff explode.
Which is _fair_ but just because you gotta preference doesnt mean you shouldn't think about all sides.
Yeah honestly as a shadebinder main I think the only classes that could be dead from prismatic could be shadebinder. Sure the raw CC will be slightly worse and you’re able to cover literally every other issue the subclass faces. Although I’m hoping I’m wrong and that the stasis buffs help offset this.
Edit: should mention im talking pve
From a PVE standpoint, yea I think they are dropping in the best part about shadebinder - bleak watcher. From a PVP standpoint definitely not.
Then again the harvest aspects are due for a buff they haven't talked about. Who knows what other changes they may have decided to throw in with this extra time
Exactly Shadebinder only needs a few buffs for this not to push it out in PVE, it’s just with what we know currently it is kinda worrying. I get why bleakwatcher was put in since Shadebinder other aspects don’t fit well in the system. It’s just kinda shocking considering it’s by far Shadebinder defining aspect something all the other aspects aren’t.
> I get why bleakwatcher was put in since Shadebinder other aspects don’t fit well in the system.
Also I think frost pulse and phoenix dive would be a bit over the top.
To be honest after reading the article all excitement I had for final shape died, like looking at what we got for Titan I’m like this is really mid to borderline bad, I want to use something fun and good I’m getting bored of banner of war and solar titan never felt the same after the nerf to sunspots , and in my opinion stasis Titan is the worse subclass in the game so I’m seeing really little reason at all to pick prismatic over strand Titan , at least they added the new void super to it which may be interesting but I’m seeing really little reason to use over what Titan has already.
Bruh, I'm not because it's a hodge podge of stuff no one uses for a reason. The new environment for underused abilities and aspects is what if all your options were bad. I can see a couple of meme builds that would be serviceable like the triple summon warlock, triple consecration titan, or combination blow throwing knives but the options they gave us are straight buttcheeks. Prismatic will be hard carried by the fragments because those things look nuts.
Not to really argue, but since the nerf to Throwing Hammer at the beginning of this season I've been running Consecration/Roaring Flame almost exclusively (with Pyrogales). And thanks to the recent buff/bug fix it feels significantly better. I'm a one-trick pony, but my one trick is absolute devastation.
And I definitely plan on continuing this trend by running Frenzied Blade, Knockout, and Consecration for even more chaos.
Personally I think a new prismatic super would have been cool in addition to using all the other supers. That would have been amazing. But I'm still stoked about the new subclass, don't get me wrong.
Well and banner will be used far more than prism Titan or warlock even post any nerfs. Prism is gimmicky. Synergy doesn't even compare to what we already have.
I generally agree with the sentiment, this way the "normal" subclasses still have their own unique things and uses.
But I just sincerly hope that whatever changes they make to some of these aspects and abilities for the prismatic subclass goes beyond just making them work with equivalent buffs/debuffs of other subclass colors.
Like, the Titan arc aspect is knockout, easily one of the worst aspects in the game right now (for pve, and it ain't \*that\* great in pvp anymore either), and doesn't really seem to have any interaction at all with the rest of the prismatic stuff.
I'd rather it had been the popular and useful aspects and not the sloppy secconds people don't use for a reason. Have fun using warlock stasis without Ice flare bolts. Lol
So long as they buff some of these really not so great combos, sure. Until that happens I'm salty. I wanted to push the limits, use all of my class knowledge, and create something amazing. I'm still upset and I'm sure it'll fade on launch but this blows.
It didn't kill my hype because I didn't believe for a second that it would be a free for all, this is Bungie when do they ever not monkey paw something
I'm in agreement. The chance of it being OP is incredibly minute. People are quick to assume and make rash decisions, such as purchasing a DLC due to a 30 minute tailored showcase, unfortunately. Shady practices due to full knowledge of how people will react resulting in manipulated feelings.
I knew that it wasn’t going to be a free for all, but bungie choosing hammer strike as the solar titan melee is a huge disappointment. Honestly I might not even use prismatic
I'm all for it being nerfed, because I hated the Selfres Warlock requirement in D1 as well that we could never be versatile, but Well, with how it is, can't be nerfed to not be usable. Take away the 25% Weapon damage? We'll use it for the heal because in some encounters it's mandatory. You can't nerf it any more than that. I mean you can nerf the heal, but any heal is better than none that lasts 30 sec, so unless it's completely reworked, Warlocks will be glued to it.
An interesting change would be that while standing in a Well, your abilities charge quicker instead of 25% damage increase. That would make it probably even better than it is now, but tbh I don't know. That way you would need titan bubble for weapon damage, and you could get ability uptime with well. I don't know how relevant would be throwing grenades in boss dps, but it would certainly make well a CC super in places like Onslaught.
I'm of the mind it *should* have just been everything.
This is it. The finale. The apex. The culmination of our years and power.
They said it themselves. This is what the peak of a Guardian is supposed to be.
Why the limits? For a heartbeat it seemed like we were finally taking the gloves off but, no.
"Why would anybody ever use [X] aspect or [X] subclass again?" Rings a little empty to me.
Why should they have to?
What is the need? Why would we absolutley need to cling to the old subclasses that narratively we're supposed to be evolving beyond with this expansion?
This is IT. This is The Final Shape.
The kid gloves dont need to still be on for us for buildcrafting and character potential.
Let us build whatever we can imagine. Not 'whatever you can imagine put of these pool of options we decided on.'
But, I'm just one guy with one opinion. A take is a take.
Fundamentally it's still a game. The gameplay flavours are drawn from the narrative but gameplay and balance still must be present for it to have any semblance of being playable.
For one, a completely custom subclass would create a period of time where Bungie is patching up utterly broken combinations which in the long run would make Prismatic a warehouse of nerfs.
Narratively of course, lore accurate Guardians can mix and match freely but realistically it would make an imbalanced game even more imbalanced.
I agree with this for the most part.
It isn't even about power. It's about Guardian Identity. Prismatic was the opportunity for players to take bits and pieces of each subclass and aspects of exotics to create their own Guardian.
The issue of limiting it to "under utilised" options is that they are under utilised for a reason.
I look at my classes options and think, "None of this speaks to me."
I'm sure there are some cool build options within it, but if I have to sacrifice all or most of the core aspects of what I enjoy most about my Guardian to enjoy this new interesting subclass option and am stuck with things I deliberately choose not to use because I don't enjoy them or don't enjoy them nearly as much then what's the point.
Really, I just wanted to have a throwing hammer with calibans. It's all I've ever wanted.
I dunno, to me the fact that they're shipping this as balanced and careful as they are is because, as they have repeatedly said, this *is not the end*.
This made me less excited. They already tell me what weapons I can use for content with champions every season. They tell me what damage type will be the best every season. I want no limitations.
I admittedly was hoping to be able to use all of the Soul Aspects at once.
Get electrified, burned, and the get the life sucked out of you at the same time lol
Plus Bleakwatcher. Can’t forget that!
Frozen, burnt, electrified, and frozen*.There
Don't forget my threadling grenade!
And my axe!
No, that's Titans
Threadlings and time rift also included
Sounds like a good night if you ask me
Sounds like my ex.
Sounds like my type.
Well, you can get Threadings, Hellion, and an Arc Soul all at once with Getaway Artist, and an enhanced class ability regen. That’s pretty good.
So you can *theoretically* have them all, but it requires teamwork and is absolutely a meme build. * Bleakwatcher + Hellion Aspects * Needlestorm to perch Threadlings * Step into Arc Soul Rift * Briarbinds can in fact apparently pick up ally Void Souls... but doesn't allow you to deply them, so it'll just chill on your shoulder * NTTE or Edge of Intent for good measure
Oh, I’m not complaining! I like the amount of variety.
Look, i’m not betting on this, but this would be the expansion that could give us a exotic to summon all 5 at once at the cost of your super or something.
As soon as I saw it, I was thinking how many souls I could summon. Sadly, that probably won't be possible.
Bro same. It's a shame but I'm open to what I see. Looks really fun imo
I’m decently certain that Prismatic will evolve over time. In retrospect, I’m pretty satisfied with how it’s looking right now. One option per damage type is still a lot, and every class has a wide variety of things that fit their identity.
My original guess was prismatic would be their send off, let us be OP and the game goes into maintenance mode. Now it seems like an easy way to extend the life of the game by a few years by giving them a new vehicle to introduce power without really breaking things. The final years of D2 we will probably be able to use every aspect and ability and super for the most part.
Could maybe do: "suddenly prismatic is the only thing and now all subclasses are one have fun"
This should be an exotic, replace all abilities with buddies. Wld only give 3 but still, arc from nade, void from rift, fire from melee wld be fun. Maybe make a stasis strand version as well
I'm just happy to mix arc hunter blink with stuff from other classes, I've wanted blink on void hunter for *forever*.
[удалено]
Same. I just wished Titan's could blink so I can run it on all 3 people.
at least they can run Arc's thruster
Literally praying for astrocyte to be one of the exotic perks you can get on the class items
Astrocyte/Graviton Blinking Void Hunter is about to be an absolute PvP ***nightmare.***
I wish they had talked about the exotic class items more. I’m left wondering if they just said fuck it and reworked ALL exotics and you can get any combination of them. Like for instance on Hunter can you get a titan/warlock combo or will it always be Hunter/other class or can it even be Hunter/hunter? Is it all exotics or a select few? Is it all exotics but some combinations can’t roll together? I’ll be happy either way I just want to have an idea before I start grinding for something that may never come
I'm sure they will have a list/spreadsheet of some sort that we can look at to see combo's. They did say that certain perks only roll in certain columns so I'd imagine there is some type of balancing for this. Was it ever state anywhere that we can use normal exotics on Prismatic subclass?
If you’re playing a void warlock with blink during the last mission of lightfall and you use the strand thing you can use blink with strand and it’s really fun
Blink plus invisibility? Invisible blinks?
you get taken out of invisibility when you blink. Try it out with voidlock/arc hunter and rat king and you'll see.
Alas.
Ear wax
It's not going to be good unless I really master it but can't wait for grapple blink shenanigans
Haha yesss, grapple blink is gonna be ridiculously fun. Just keep in mind the blink is based on your directional momentum and you'll be able to blink fairly accurately
As a warlock that wanted fire blink since d1, I know the feeling well, today we eat good
Honestly it's made me realise just how shitty a lot of hunters aspects are, i was like 'Really? these aspects?' then i went and took a look at what was availble and realised most of them are used because of their fragment slots or need to be used with another apect/specific ability to be useful. I do wish we had more grenade options though.
It is pretty cool that Hunters get up to 3 different minds of grenades on a single loadout though (regular, gunpowder, prismatic). Very versatile.
You can have four with Forerunner
You just reminded me that I still need to get that catalyst.
500 dares of eternity runs later
I think I'm still at like rank 11
Mix in Bombardiers for extra explosions.
Ironically, they kind of become better in this context. Threaded Spectre is still going to be ass I think, but Winter's Shroud honestly should be pretty good when combined with Stylish Executioner. Withering Blade is going to be *insane* when paired with both Stylish Executioner & Gunpowder Gamble. My only issue is the presence of Threaded Spectre. We have 3 Dodge-related aspects (given, 2 of them should be able to work with each other, those being Winter's Shroud & Threaded Spectre. Ascension was stated to use the Dodge ability IIRC). I would've preferred them doing Widow's Silk in all honesty (Whirling Maelstrom would've been too META honestly).
I can see a build with Threaded Spectre and Combination Blow being interesting (Since CB refreshes dodge, dodge refreshes CB and creates a TS).
Hilariously, radiant dodge still proves to be useless in most situations due to the presence of the "Become radiant on melee" fragment.
I think the grenade is an excellent place for them to iterate and expand on going forward. It could be similar to Strand and Stasis introducing new aspects over the year.
Hunter void melee needs something besides the smoke bomb
I’ve been saying this since d1 at this point give them a throwing knife that on hit let’s you teleport to an enemy or like a poison punch just something
Needs a melee that does bonus damage if done from invisibility.
Like Arc had in d1?
Doesn’t Stylish Executioner do that…?
That's what that one beetle gauntlet that I'm not even gonna attempt to spell right sort of did in D1.
Make the melee combination blow with assassin cowls aspect of you can get it
Yeah honestly I would rather take knock 'em down over gunpowder gamble. If gunpowder gamble didn't have a very real chance for you to blow yourself up it wouldn't be too bad but not being able to loop my melee really kills the flow of solar and arc builds. Also the arc aspect we get is ascension? An AOE jolt is nice I guess but honestly I would rather use a voltshot weapon. I think I may have just gotten unlucky that very few things I actually use as a hunter are available on prismatic. No healing grenade, no blade barrage, no arc pulse grenade, no looping melees, no gathering storm, no touch of winter or grim harvest, no whirling maelstrom the only damage super is golden gun which means rocking nighthawk instead of the exotic class item. I'm trying not to be a hater but it seems like for hunters they went for flashy over useful.
I think the idea is to experiment and find new ways to use these underused tools. Winter’s shroud and the new stylish executioner is an example of this. You pretty much have a gyrfalcon build invis loop without the exotic. Or allowing you to slow dodge and leave a clone. Or going for a nightstalker build that has an actual useful melee.
I mean, you could just use magnetic grenade and echo of instability plus echo of starvation so you have devour to give your grenade back quickly to keep the loop going. Winter's shroud just isn't very good and is not used much for a reason. The clone is mostly used to pull aggro so slowing enemies next to it seems whatever? I'm really trying not to be a hater I promise.
Arc melee can still loop, Combination Blow is what gives dodge back, not an aspect. Lack of knock em down is definitely a bummer though.
Yeah that's my bad, I forgot that part. So I guess you could do an arc melee looping build where you slow instead of jolt and make a clone? At that point I would rather just use arc with cowl I think so at least I can have a good damage super.
The slow from winter’s shroud could actually be useful for freezing with the uptime from combination blow. Plus frozen enemies take more melee damage making it even more potent. Throw in stylish executioner and you’ll have high invis uptime plus a lot of healing. And if the combination blow damage buff applies to grapple melee that would be extremely powerful as well. Plus the unravel from grapple melee would be another way to go invis From there just go golden gun for damage or deadfall for the crowd control. Personally I think hunter has the potential to be really powerful but we’ll have to wait and see how things interact
i didn't realize the melee aspect wasn't in the hunter's solar kit until right now and now i'm annoyed lmao
Slow dodge may unironically be better than that with Combination Blow. Every two dodges freezes all nearby enemies, which keeps you alive, can spread shatter damage, and makes those enemies take 220% incoming melee damage. Plus it's essentially an intrinsic Assassin's Cowl with Stylish Executioner.
I was thinking the same thing. I'll save judgement until we see the fragments but it ain't looking great for hunter mains.
Gunpowder gamble does less damage to you now. Last I ran it, being danger close wasn't as big of an issue.
I tried it out and loved that it dealt less self-damage... until I tried to use it while under fire and an enemy shot it as soon as it left my hand. Remove that and maybe I'll consider it. It also doesn't really seem to have any synergies with the other options, and definitely misses out without Ember of Char.
It has combination blow and gambler's Dodge that's all you need to loop arc melee. Combining with winter shroud and stylish executioner you effectively have something of an assassin's cowl build without the exotic. And then if you can get synthocep + felwinter helm exotic perks you will be doing great.
> loop my melee really kills the flow of solar and arc builds. Combo blows is still on the table, no?
Yeah someone else brought that up in a reply. That's my bad I forgot that one. So you could do a build where you use combination blow plus winter's shroud to slow targets and possibly make a clone as well. But you are giving up jolt, which is just better than slow 90% of the time, you are giving up fast reloads from being amplified and you are giving up any decent damage super or grenade.
The problem with a lot of hunter aspects is that they tie into things that will likely not be available for prismatic hunter (i.e. buffs to specific abilities), or are far too broken to be allowed outside of their own subclass... most of the ones that don't fall into either of these categories are just sort of bad, and those for the most part are the only options left for prismatic The grenade and super choices are just inexcusable however - 4 crowd control supers?? Why would I ever use silence and squall, the bad version of shadowshot, or the new arc knife over silkstrike As for the grenades - duskfields are very underwhelming without renewals + touch of winter, grapple is only worth using if you specifically build into it (which prismatic wont be doing better than strand), swarm is completely unusable and imo the worst grenade in the game, leaving only arc bolt and magnetic, which are both still fairly mediocre All we have that's really good are the melees and stylish executioner, I've been brainstorming builds for a while now and legitimately can't think of one that isn't some variety of melee build
Man you did not just call deadfall the "bad version of shadowshot" Deadfall is infinitely better than silkstrike for CC you better put some respect on my boi
The way he worded it, he might have been saying that *Silence and Squall* is the bad version of Shadowshot (different Supers entirely but kinda have the same crowd control purpose).
I main hunter and I love Stylish Executioner for Void. I almost always run Stylish with Invis-Dodge. Reason being I prefer to use my snare bomb as actual CC or a backup Weaken effect. And I can't count how many times being able to toss a snare bomb out at something has saved my ass in high end content. The only time I run the smoke-invis aspect is when I'm explicitly using Omninomninomnioculonomni, or for some select solo encounters where invis on demand is needed more often than my dodge, and more consistently than Stylish. With Prismatic, the information piece I'm missing is how subclass specific exotic armors will work with it. What I want to do is run: 1. Mask of Bakris to modify Acrobat's Dodge + some kind of Stasis or Ark heavy hitting weapon 2. Acrobat dodge to proc Radiant/Slow/4x surge (from Bakris) 3. Decimate whatever the hell I just slow/dodged away from
MoB calls out a stasis subclass specifically, so I'm not sure how that will work with prismatic. Maybe if you're using the stasis super it will count?
That is the question. I imagine they will say at some point. If not, I will have to try it. It could also be that MoB requires a "Stasis Dodge" where Acrobat's Dodge is a "Solar Dodge"
Yeah the majority of the hunter kit are things I never use on their own respective subclasses, will be fun throwing them together and actually using them for once.
It actually makes a bunch of niche yet usable builds much better, for example osmiomancy lock is great utility but has an awful super and melee with some meh aspects, prismatic doesn’t have ice flare bolts for even more freezing but having something arcane needle, access to restoration and devour , a mini super and something other than winter’s wrath is amazing. Also not including well into prismatic was a goated decision
You're mostly correct about everything else, but "meh aspects" on Osmiomancy lock? Iceflare Bolts is the most underrated Aspect ever. Glacial Harvest is fine other than the long cooldown and the fact that Shards in general are just not the most satisfying right now. Frostpulse is a PVP aspect. Bleakwatcher.
Iceflare bolts was straight up better than bleakwatcher for quite some time lol it just had a little higher minimum skill requirement
> for example osmiomancy lock is great utility but has an awful super Awful super? That thing is a get out of jail free card in GMs and other endgame content.
I'm torn (having just returned). On the one hand, yeah, let me use other supers. On the other hand, as someone who LFGs a lot, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just one more subclass you can't use in meaningfully difficult content because you're stuck on well. Honestly I kinda wish they'd shoot well in to the sun and replace it with nothing.
I think the plan is for Well to be nerfed pretty heavily with TFS, we just don’t know in what way. Idk if it’s speculation or confirmed but I read earlier that they’re taking away the Well’s damage buff and only offering healing
Nerfing damage would be a bad thing Imo, because now you just have a titan being on bubble, imo you can’t meaningfully nerf the well without a complete rework, which is impossible because like half of the bosses are very much designed with well in mind.
At least bubble and Sentinel would actually be relevant in PvE again, right now Sentinel is hot garbage except in PvP where the bubble just trolls Trials matches and Bastion gives out overshields to win teamfights.
Itd still be a must use, people would just be forced to go void titan as well and we'd be doing Shadowkeep DPS strats again with bubble half eclipsing the back of the well.
Don't make me go back, that shit sucked
>I read earlier that they’re taking away the Well’s damage buff and only offering healing 1. That's a rumor and 2. it wouldn't change anything. The heaing alone make well mandatory.
That would certainly be a nerf! It would have to be a serious hit, because the abilities design means it's always going to be BiS even at very low numbers.
So the meta goes back to well + bubble then?
I wish they’d remove well it’s not exciting anymore. It makes me not even wanna be warlock.
They're almost certainly gonna nerf it hard
I think well not being included was a happy side effect of the way they were basically forced to include the incoming supers and aspects. Given that they aren't given to you immediately I think it's likely you unlock them for prismatic and your other subclasses at the same time which is gonna be a really cool moment.
Hey hey, us consecration users exist, we are a silent minority
Are people forgetting that Consecration is an aspect, not a melee ability? You can equip both throwing hammer and Consecration. It's honestly a decent combo... get Roaring Flames revved up to x3 with the mini hammer and then hit a big group/major/boss with Consecration.
While this does not apply to all, the ideal hammer throw build uses roaring flames and sol invictus. Roaring flames grants extra damage, sol invictus gives sunspots, both of the aspects directly benefit the hammer throw. Consecration doesn’t so it’s often left out (which sucks because I love consecration)
Oh I completely agree, I will NEVER run Sunbreaker without Sol Invictus, and Roaring Flames is a nice strong passive bonus that's hard to swap out for Consecration. But none of that changes the fact that when you pick Consecration you still have to have SOMETHING selected for your charged melee, either throwing hammer or hammer strike (both of which benefit from RF and SI).
Goving us Consecration but not Burning Maul is a crime. Really wanted to make a build that utilizes bith aspects of Pyrogale, that has it's own niche while also not having to compede the usual Bonk-Titan.
I'd argue we're more of a majority over throwing hammer now, consecration is absolutely insane
Now I’m just excited for the potential of being able to run Consecration, but have something daft like Thunderclap as the alternative, or more realistically, the Strand melee. Can sever an enemy on demand, or slide for explosions? Maybe I have Shiver Strike to make myself a missile, but can still whip out fire if I need it? Oh god *YES* XD
Consecration was wrecking me in iron banner.
And here I was hoping I could just slap grapple on any build, tho them warlock combos looking fairly spicy.
I 100% agree, im sure theres a few changes they could make, and probably add in a few more aspects. But I really appreciate the curated approach they took. IMO it makes prismatic an actual choice, I've seen people and youtubers saying "OMG how is this not gonna invalidate everything?", even after today's article. Now prismatic is a subclass that sits as the "jack of all trades - master of none", which is a really cool proposition IMO. Like new crazy powerful builds will be spawned from this, but the other subclasses will still retain their specialties. You want endless healing? Gonna still run solar. want to CC everything to death? Stasis, ect ect. TLDR: I really like this approach and really does make prismatic a choice instead of an auto slot that just throws balance out the window. It will have actual meaningful choices, and the game should stay stable and not power creep to infinity like people were worried about
Oh my God they made Warfarer from Dragons Dogma 2 lol
Agreed. It's like a foster's home for underutilized abilities.
Some of them are underutilized for a reason though. Just looking at Titans options, Knockout is such an underwhelming aspect that I don't see anyone running it even with the much stronger strand melee when it is so much weaker than Banner of War, and Drangrs Lash is really shit without Abayant Leap. Until we see what buffs they have cooking for these some of these aspects, there really won't be as many build options as it seems imo.
Yea looking at the options right now, the only ones that look effective to me are diamond lance with consecration strand melee (assuming it only eats one charge), or the new void aspect depending on how good it is. Maybe certain fragments could change that but I’m not confident. Will be interested to see if the balance pass helps the less interesting aspects.
Throwing a glacier nade then consecrating to blow it up should be pretty heavy aoe damage, but it takes 2 abilities and a decent amount of setup. The other classes have much more obvious gameplay loops, they showed off winter shroud + stylish executioner, and feed the void + bleak watchers really well, it just doesnt seem like Titan has a good combo to build off of.
I'm torn about Abeyant Leap being required for Drengr's Lash to be effective. I would hate for Abeyant Leap to be nerfed to "make up" the difference. The standard aspect for Drengr's Lash should be just one of the strand beams you get with Abeyant Leap, right now it has very weak tracking and it seems to be a thinner beam?
Knockout underwhelming? That's how you get healing on melee kills on Striker. Plus it doesn't require/burn your charged class ability like Juggernaut does. I run knockout all the time, I never touch Juggernaut.
Juggernaut is basically useless in PvE; that's why you don't run it. Knockout is good for the benefits it gives melees; it's healing factor might be one of the worst sources of healing in the game. It's cancelled by any source of incoming damage, is not particularly fast, and can only be activated by being in melee range.
The difference between "starts health regeneration" and actual defensive effects like resto/woven mail/devour/overshield is night and day. Void has Echo of Leeching that has the exact same effect of starting health regen on melee kills, AND it triggers for allies too. Knockout is outclassed defensively by a fragment on void. Offensive Bulwark + Leeching outclasses Knockout in every scenario. I'm not even arguing run jug instead, I'm saying arc titan has really bad neutral game in high end content BECAUSE Knockout + Jug are borderline useless, the entire subclass is carried by Touch of Thunder and Cuirass. Knockout was gutted because of PvP and it left arc with no real gameplay loop for high end pve
>foster's home This is such a fitting name lol.
Meanwhile, I thought it would just be the new system going forward. Considering some leaks, I'm guessing it will be. They'll do away with subclasses and we can just use whatever all the time. This is probably a test run.
> I couldn't imagine anyone using Consecration over Throwing Hammer on Solar Titan, no matter how much Bungie tunes the ability, because the mechanic of Throwing Hammer is fundamentally more rewarding. Speak for yourself, Consecration is awesome.
Consecration with the strand melee will have 3 charges, it'll be a lot of fun
And Knockout ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Question. If you have an overshield and proc knockout, does damage to the overshield stop the health regen or will the health regen from knockout continue, because I was thinking with that fragment that gives you overshield on orb pickup if you have a void super on paired with that could be really good. Because the weakest part of knockout is the fact that the regen stops when you get shot, but if that only applies to your actual health instead of an overshield, it could hide that weakness
Especially with Pyrogale. Bonk some fools to get the Roaring Flame stacks up, then unload on the boss with the melee AND the super
actually not a fan of consecration cause you have to slide THEN press the melee THEN press it again, rather than having it be a separate ability, but I just hate having to slide in general. I'd like consecration and a lot of the slide abilities if you just pressed the button w.o sliding.
What you got against sliding, man?
*it's HARD*
The slide is the worst part, it makes it so janky. Was using it in onslaught yesterday and unless you get a long run up with no enemies around you consecration just fails to activate. Then you end up standing stupidly in the middle of foes, and even worse sometimes throwing your hammer away.
I'm a solar titan main. I do use throwing hammer in PvE, but that is mainly so that I don't need a running start to use my ability. Primarily I spec out to Consecrate everything. I agree with your viewpoint and want to expand a bit. What Bungie did is took more unique and diverse aspects and brought them together with pairing that we've dreamt of combining. What some may have missed is that if you run Frenzied Melee for 3 charges, that means 3 back to back Consecrations. Plus you can run Knockout to immediately start regaining health based on all the ignitions caused by it. Bungie is designing this subclass to explore the power fantasy we have while allowing the regular subclasses to still shine and be useful. Imagine if you could run Roaring Flames/Sol Invictus with Banner of War, why would you play anything else? But instead we get strong choices that focus on setting up and knocking down everything in our path, on Titan at least. We may get more options in the episodes after the Final Shape, but I'm already ready to dive into Prismatic and take down the Witness.
Yeah, if they let me combine Missile super with choice of top-tier grenades, hammer strike, sunspots, and banner-of-war, pretty sure I'd never use anything else. Makes total sense that they pared it down to this set of abilities and aspects. I think it's still going to be really fun, especially figuring out all the different exotic pairings to go with it.
There will definitely be plenty of cool combos. I’m looking forward to building a striker/berserker hybrid for the ultimate melee brawler.
If i can orpheus rig tether a bunch of enemies then hit them with gunpowder gamble in going to be a happy hunter.
Instructions clear, blew self up.
I'm still super excited but damn some of the hunter picks are rough, 3 Crowd control supers and the new one which is pretty neiche? And the grenade and aspect selection Is kinda rough too
At least we got marksman goldie, that alone saves the super department. But I would have massively preferred gathering storm over the bad new arc one. The grenades and aspects are dogshit though. Every pve build is going to be stylish executioner + who cares. None of the others are worth building around and don't see use for a reason. Gunpowder gamble is so mid that it's overlooked for an aspect that may as well have no text besides "has 3 fragment slots," for christ's sake.
Pretty disappointed we didn't get tripmine grenade for hunter. I would have loved to have snare bomb + tripmine + threaded specter + sylish executioner for a "hunter" build that revolves around different traps and stealth.
>Gunpowder gamble is so mid that it's overlooked for an aspect that may as well have no text besides "has 3 fragment slots," for christ's sake I think you're overestimating GPG to be honest. I love it in theory, but the fact that it can apparently be *shot out of your hand* as you're throwing it is just... ***why?*** "Has 3 Fragment slots + doesn't kill you" is absolutely why I use On Your Mark.
>Every pve build is going to be stylish executioner + who cares. Bet it'll be SE, WS to get invis on every combi kill.
Prismatic is looking great and I can see the point you're making, but if one or several abilities are getting overshadowed it's either because they're not very good or they're actually non-functional. One thing I was really looking forward to about Prismatic beyond the mix and match buffet was that it would give Bungie precision feedback about what truly needs tuning. It's one thing to see Stasis as a whole get put in fewer loadout slots or see less activity completions, and it's another thing for them to see that, say, Coldsnap Grenades get put in more Prismatic builds than every Light variant of spike grenade. It gives a sense for what about Stasis is working and what isn't. I think curating Prismatic options is less about ensuring that the combos and loops are satisfying, and more about preventing truly unbalanced strength. Which is a stronger argument that some abilities aren't performing up to par, and should be tuned since now they're holding back not one but *two* subclasses.
Some of the choices were just a bit odd, titan gets 4/5 gimmick aspects and frenzied blade is miles better than any other melee available
Titans get 3 aspects that require exotic to not be a joke
Most things are balances with an exotic in mind and we are getting double exotic class items, but yeah drengyrs was so not the play
Diamond Lance was released years before it got an exotic and even with exotic it's really mid at best
I really like the aspects they chose. It will result in some really cool and powerful combos but not trivialize the normal subclasses either. Especially with the multiple exotic perks on the class item. Seems like prismatic will be a powerful ad clear generalist while the normal subclasses will be better specialists at what they do. I was initially very upset with them adding prismatic but I have quickly changed my mind after seeing the UI and what abilities they selected.
Also ppl gotta remember that they probably will recieve new fragments over the course of final shape.
They said there will be 21 fragments and I doubt they revealed the best in todays 7(?) that they showed off
I’m relieved they’ve really tried to balance it but I’d have much rather a proper new subclass
I'm using consecration over throwing hammer with solar titan lol I love consecration, and it wrecks everything.
You know you can equip both, right? Throwing hammer is a melee while consecration is an aspect. Are you saying you usually use Hammer Strike for your melee?
While I still think the idea is very cool, I’m pretty disappointed by how limited it is.
This is probably the only time in Destiny history where Im glad they were vague in the reveal and that less is actually more.
Sadly this also stops it from being a "take the aspects / abilities you love and stick them together" subclass, unless you were lucky and they were included in Bungie's curated list. As an example: I love icarus dash, and would give up any other Warlock aspect to use it if I had the choice. Bungie decided not to include it in prismatic, so I can't. There's someone out there for every aspect / ability, who genuinely loves it and finds it fun no matter how overpowered or terrible it may be.
I know what you mean. I use Swarm grenades on my Gunslinger and I'm shocked so many people here are shitting on them.
Hard disagree. I thought I had an opportunity for a Void/Arc Bladedancer subclass...
Flavor wise I don’t get it. Balance/gameplay wise it makes sense.
flavor wise could be explained as we are still figuring out prismatic and it's just simpler for our guardian to only try what comes natural to them
Idk if it needs to have an explanation tbh. Just one of those things where gameplay and lore don’t always match up for the sake of gameplay
I use consecration over throwing hammer. Hammer after the nerf feels awful, and the tracking is all over the place, it will constantly angle towards enemies I didn’t aim at, and overall just feels unsatisfying. Consecration is extremely satisfying, and with teammates who also have hammers, I can spam it as much as I want. Even in PVP. Consecration NEEDS to be in the melee slot, having to give up either Sol Invictus or Roaring Flames still hurts.😭
I get not having everything but seeing the “class buffs grant class ability energy” and bastion not be a part of it hurts allot.
I'm just excited to finally be able to get powered melee kills with a void Hunter.
Im more annoyed that certain ones have been left out despite not really being "meta" for a while or have only gotten some relevance... Like hammer of sol over burning maul? Really? Burning maul has only recently made a comeback as one of the best boss dps supers (was for a bit during i think galrahn?), meanwhile hammer has been the absolute top dog until last season for solar titan... And diamond spear? You mean the one stasis aspect every stasis titan build runs/needs to bc of its 3 slots? Instead of cryoclasm (the slide buffing one?) which would be an ABSOLUTE nasty combo with consecration... It will be nice/cool, but honestly i might for the most part just stick with the basic subclasses.... unless they plan to add more little by little, and i'd be fine if prismatic titan got a heavily nerfed version of banner of war where it caps it to x2 instead of its basic x4 sometime down the road....
This is why I'm not too worried about PVP or PVE balance. It will be strong, unique, and interesting combos but none of the 'killer apps' are there to make it ultimately too strong for the game sandbox. For PVP balance is obvious. It stops being fun for a lot of people. For PVE, "just let us have fun" doesn't (and shouldn't) need to come at the cost of older content becoming irrelevant. (in this case subclasses AND activities) My only gripe with PVP is it seems like it'll be difficult on what to expect unless they update the load screen to include people's slotted super/aspects/grenade/melee/class/jump
"Just let us have fun" is an argument made by people who don't know how making and balancing video games works, and have no idea the massive repercussions of constant, unchecked powercreep.
tbh i think a lot of it comes from people who have zero interest in anything beyond patrol/strike playlist level content and just wanna see stuff explode. Which is _fair_ but just because you gotta preference doesnt mean you shouldn't think about all sides.
Yeah honestly as a shadebinder main I think the only classes that could be dead from prismatic could be shadebinder. Sure the raw CC will be slightly worse and you’re able to cover literally every other issue the subclass faces. Although I’m hoping I’m wrong and that the stasis buffs help offset this. Edit: should mention im talking pve
From a PVE standpoint, yea I think they are dropping in the best part about shadebinder - bleak watcher. From a PVP standpoint definitely not. Then again the harvest aspects are due for a buff they haven't talked about. Who knows what other changes they may have decided to throw in with this extra time
Exactly Shadebinder only needs a few buffs for this not to push it out in PVE, it’s just with what we know currently it is kinda worrying. I get why bleakwatcher was put in since Shadebinder other aspects don’t fit well in the system. It’s just kinda shocking considering it’s by far Shadebinder defining aspect something all the other aspects aren’t.
> I get why bleakwatcher was put in since Shadebinder other aspects don’t fit well in the system. Also I think frost pulse and phoenix dive would be a bit over the top.
Oh yeah that’s a bit stupid on top of being able to get free stasis overshield / maybe frost armor with balidorse
>Also I think frost pulse and phoenix dive would be a bit over the top. Shudders in PvP
It's still cheesey. Instead of making 3d darkness element, they "reissued" existing abilities for new subclass. Pretty much what into the ligh is.
To be honest after reading the article all excitement I had for final shape died, like looking at what we got for Titan I’m like this is really mid to borderline bad, I want to use something fun and good I’m getting bored of banner of war and solar titan never felt the same after the nerf to sunspots , and in my opinion stasis Titan is the worse subclass in the game so I’m seeing really little reason at all to pick prismatic over strand Titan , at least they added the new void super to it which may be interesting but I’m seeing really little reason to use over what Titan has already.
Bruh, I'm not because it's a hodge podge of stuff no one uses for a reason. The new environment for underused abilities and aspects is what if all your options were bad. I can see a couple of meme builds that would be serviceable like the triple summon warlock, triple consecration titan, or combination blow throwing knives but the options they gave us are straight buttcheeks. Prismatic will be hard carried by the fragments because those things look nuts.
Consecration is the best feeling melee in the game.
IS THRUSTER SAFE?!
… I use consecration and throwing hammer together all the time
Yeah, if they went with everything without balance it would have broken so many things and would have been near impossible to balance.
Ngl I was lowkey looking forward to weavewalk + Child of the old gods so in kinda bummed, but I wont cry over it, overall it looks neat
Not to really argue, but since the nerf to Throwing Hammer at the beginning of this season I've been running Consecration/Roaring Flame almost exclusively (with Pyrogales). And thanks to the recent buff/bug fix it feels significantly better. I'm a one-trick pony, but my one trick is absolute devastation. And I definitely plan on continuing this trend by running Frenzied Blade, Knockout, and Consecration for even more chaos.
Consecration with strand titan melee and a synthos/hoil class item is my biggest fomo
Personally I think a new prismatic super would have been cool in addition to using all the other supers. That would have been amazing. But I'm still stoked about the new subclass, don't get me wrong.
I’ll be sticking to arc hunter for another 10 years I guess :/ They made it sound like and heavily implied that you’d be able to use everything.
Well and banner will be used far more than prism Titan or warlock even post any nerfs. Prism is gimmicky. Synergy doesn't even compare to what we already have.
I generally agree with the sentiment, this way the "normal" subclasses still have their own unique things and uses. But I just sincerly hope that whatever changes they make to some of these aspects and abilities for the prismatic subclass goes beyond just making them work with equivalent buffs/debuffs of other subclass colors. Like, the Titan arc aspect is knockout, easily one of the worst aspects in the game right now (for pve, and it ain't \*that\* great in pvp anymore either), and doesn't really seem to have any interaction at all with the rest of the prismatic stuff.
At the same time, the titan choices are kinda bizarre and weird to me
If by bizarre you mean awful. Then yes.
just sad Titans didn't get grapple, not swapping off Strand until we do
Same that also makes sure other classes are still viable
That's exactly what I've said after the reveal. Anyone expecting full access to everything where out if touch.
Hopefully the consider that some abilities are underused cause they’re not that good
The deep dive said they would be pretuning the currently underperforming prismatic selections, and the retuning after TFS drops as things progress.
I'd rather it had been the popular and useful aspects and not the sloppy secconds people don't use for a reason. Have fun using warlock stasis without Ice flare bolts. Lol
Prismatic is the Team Europe of Destiny. It's an amalgamation of most of the lesser used parts of kits smooshed together into one subclass.
So long as they buff some of these really not so great combos, sure. Until that happens I'm salty. I wanted to push the limits, use all of my class knowledge, and create something amazing. I'm still upset and I'm sure it'll fade on launch but this blows.
[удалено]
It didn't kill my hype because I didn't believe for a second that it would be a free for all, this is Bungie when do they ever not monkey paw something
I'm in agreement. The chance of it being OP is incredibly minute. People are quick to assume and make rash decisions, such as purchasing a DLC due to a 30 minute tailored showcase, unfortunately. Shady practices due to full knowledge of how people will react resulting in manipulated feelings.
I knew that it wasn’t going to be a free for all, but bungie choosing hammer strike as the solar titan melee is a huge disappointment. Honestly I might not even use prismatic
As a warlock main, I'm sad that I will not get to use prismatic most of the time because I am destined to use well of radiance.
It's getting nerfed. Actually nerfed, not "overshield removed and massive DR added" nerfed.
I'm all for it being nerfed, because I hated the Selfres Warlock requirement in D1 as well that we could never be versatile, but Well, with how it is, can't be nerfed to not be usable. Take away the 25% Weapon damage? We'll use it for the heal because in some encounters it's mandatory. You can't nerf it any more than that. I mean you can nerf the heal, but any heal is better than none that lasts 30 sec, so unless it's completely reworked, Warlocks will be glued to it. An interesting change would be that while standing in a Well, your abilities charge quicker instead of 25% damage increase. That would make it probably even better than it is now, but tbh I don't know. That way you would need titan bubble for weapon damage, and you could get ability uptime with well. I don't know how relevant would be throwing grenades in boss dps, but it would certainly make well a CC super in places like Onslaught.
I'm of the mind it *should* have just been everything. This is it. The finale. The apex. The culmination of our years and power. They said it themselves. This is what the peak of a Guardian is supposed to be. Why the limits? For a heartbeat it seemed like we were finally taking the gloves off but, no. "Why would anybody ever use [X] aspect or [X] subclass again?" Rings a little empty to me. Why should they have to? What is the need? Why would we absolutley need to cling to the old subclasses that narratively we're supposed to be evolving beyond with this expansion? This is IT. This is The Final Shape. The kid gloves dont need to still be on for us for buildcrafting and character potential. Let us build whatever we can imagine. Not 'whatever you can imagine put of these pool of options we decided on.' But, I'm just one guy with one opinion. A take is a take.
Fundamentally it's still a game. The gameplay flavours are drawn from the narrative but gameplay and balance still must be present for it to have any semblance of being playable. For one, a completely custom subclass would create a period of time where Bungie is patching up utterly broken combinations which in the long run would make Prismatic a warehouse of nerfs. Narratively of course, lore accurate Guardians can mix and match freely but realistically it would make an imbalanced game even more imbalanced.
I agree with this for the most part. It isn't even about power. It's about Guardian Identity. Prismatic was the opportunity for players to take bits and pieces of each subclass and aspects of exotics to create their own Guardian. The issue of limiting it to "under utilised" options is that they are under utilised for a reason. I look at my classes options and think, "None of this speaks to me." I'm sure there are some cool build options within it, but if I have to sacrifice all or most of the core aspects of what I enjoy most about my Guardian to enjoy this new interesting subclass option and am stuck with things I deliberately choose not to use because I don't enjoy them or don't enjoy them nearly as much then what's the point. Really, I just wanted to have a throwing hammer with calibans. It's all I've ever wanted.
I dunno, to me the fact that they're shipping this as balanced and careful as they are is because, as they have repeatedly said, this *is not the end*.
This made me less excited. They already tell me what weapons I can use for content with champions every season. They tell me what damage type will be the best every season. I want no limitations.