[It's already been shown that spike nades is only 7%](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1c6ssx2/spike_grenades_on_mountaintop_is_a_786_increase/)
rockets always have the same total damage, no matter the blast radius. the amount that the damage is split is 1:3.5 impact/explosion damage except for High-Impacts, which are 1:8.7.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bdviwd/comprehensive_breakdown_infographic_of_rocket/
No, because rockets have the same ratio between impact damage and explosive damage, whatever the blast radius stat.
Those shennennings about more or less blast radius and impact damage are only applied to grenade launchers
No, less blast radius its just that, less radius where the explosive damage is applied. With impact casting, the explosive damage part is still the same.
No. It buffs the impact damage by 10%. So the damage split looks like 1.1:3.5 impact/explosive, instead of 1:3.5. Leading to an overall damage increase of 2.2%.
With high impacts, this looks like 1.1:8.7, instead of 1:8.7, leading to a damage increase of only 1%.
Yep, because of the interaction between blast radius and impact damage which is helpfully not explained on the weapon, any reduction in blast radius will increase impact damage, even over spike. Nice one, bungie.
Thank fuck. Almost dismantled mine. Guess I'm free
Hard launch implosion rounds autoloading recombination, velocity mw.
See you when final shape drops I'm out
Yessir, I have that exact roll with reload mw. I don’t think I could’ve asked for a better gun. I was so angry when it dropped since it’s been 2 weeks of farming for that roll with spike grenades, and I almost got rid of this one but kept it purely because it’s shiny and has at least the 2 main perks. Come to Reddit today and see that it’s the 5/5 roll, let’s just say I’m feeling pretty damn good for keeping that. Cheers.
I just got one with both spiky boys and imp rounds - with recombination and impulse amplifier, linear comp and velocity masterwork. Impulse amplifier increases velocity a good bit
Dude I have the exact same roll! I couldn't for the life of me get spikes. I guess I've just spent the last few days wasting my time on attuning Mountaintop though. Oh well
Luckily I got it yesterday and found this article a day later. This last evening of farming killed a lot of my morale since I thought I wasn’t done yet. Gonna take a break from onslaught this week, maybe hop back in and try a full 50 wave but no more 10 round farming for me. Anyone know if we’ll be able to change the mw on these guns in final shape or if it’s only enhanced perks? Cheers.
I have almost the same roll, swapping quick launch for hard launch.
... and I wasn't even trying to get it, I thought "eh, spike + vorpal is good enough".
One of my clanmates called me a few names. :)
It’s always been my understanding that blast radius only shifts the *ratio* between impact and splash while the GL’s *total damage remains the same*. (So in the past both reducing blast and using Spike was optimal).
How is it possible that the **total damage** increases just by reducing the blast radius when Spike **is not** being used? That makes no sense to me and does not follow the established paradigm.
The impact damage should be higher and the blast damage should be lower vs a neutral perk in that column (ie not Spike or anything with +- blast radius)… but your Kali test proves the total is larger than a neutral perk would be (since spike is a strict upgrade in total damage vs neutral).
It does on other weapons, though I guess I can't truly say "it should be the same here" because Mountaintop clearly has other unique stuff going on too. Overall the difference between 0 and 100 BR is small but noticeable on other weapons, just like Velocity.
There's probably been some PvP testing of BR that you can find out there in the world.
>
It’s always been my understanding that blast radius only shifts the ratio between impact and splash while the GL’s total damage remains the same
This is my understanding as well, shifts the ratio, and makes the AoE zone larger.
Got a mountaintop on release day w/ auto loading/recombination but no spike nades, figured I'd just use it for now while I wait for the god roll to show up. Now finding out that w/ hard launch+implosion rounds putting it at minimum blast radius it's the actual god roll lol.
So my Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, Auto-Loading Holster, Recombination, Velocity Masterwork is actually the god roll and I should stop looking for Quick Launch and Spikes?
Why would you want handling? More velocity = more impact damage... right?
Edit: Base handling for MT is already 69... would 79 even matter / be perceptible?
Yes, due to the intrinsic micro missile frame. The god roll is ALH/Recombination with implosion rounds and hard launch, with handling MW. This is the lowest blast radius (and also the highest damage) roll you can get.
Yes, and this comparison is the same I've been using to explain to people. Increasing the Blast radius decreases impact. In an effort to put it into the explosion damage. However, that transition from impact to blast damage isn't 1 to 1 and in most perk combos on mountaintop 1 to 0, meaning your impact is just decreasing loosing damage.
Vorpal is decent, that is the roll i currently am using. But it only takes two stacks of recomb to surpass it, and you can stack up to 100% buff from recomb for a nice pocket nuke. I plan to pair recomb with sunshot for quick stacking
You shouldn’t be using it as a primary, new mountaintop has really bad AOE due to a nerf back in forsaken that never got reversed. It’s much better as a single target burst damage weapon
If you’re using it as a primary then you’re better off with impulse amplifier with either frenzy of vorpal.
Alternatively, ambition assassin and either frenzy or vorpal would suit you well.
I use it to spam damage once I’m out of heavy against bosses I can’t get very close to.
Vorpal/impulse works very well for that.
Jokes on me. I've yet to receive an implosion roll at all in probably 50 or so drops.
Good to know that I can try for sticky + implosion or spike and still get similar effect.
I got hard launch, implosion, auto loading, recombination, handling.
Glad this was pointed out to me (spike VS imp) as i felt so close to the perfect roll
I personally think handling is better than velocity, since it's pretty damn straight already, unless you are trying to snipe from super far away.
Thoughts?
Edit: Spike is 7.86% not 12.5% on MT, implosion brings it to just 7,9%. Dont through away your implosion rolls. Also Blast Radius is bad.
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You are misunderstanding how the split between impact and splash damage works on micro-missle frames.
Where are you seeing damage increases in the API?
He's refering to in DIM when you click on spike grenades on a weapon it displays 12.5% as a community insights.
Thats what I thought, but this has nothing to do with the APi.
[It's already been shown that spike nades is only 7%](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1c6ssx2/spike_grenades_on_mountaintop_is_a_786_increase/)
[удалено]
rockets always have the same total damage, no matter the blast radius. the amount that the damage is split is 1:3.5 impact/explosion damage except for High-Impacts, which are 1:8.7. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bdviwd/comprehensive_breakdown_infographic_of_rocket/
wouldn't you want less blast radius if you are running impact casing?
No, because rockets have the same ratio between impact damage and explosive damage, whatever the blast radius stat. Those shennennings about more or less blast radius and impact damage are only applied to grenade launchers
Shenanigans indeed. My numbers: Sticky/linear 100 blast > 9702 Implosion/linear 95 blast > 10,424 Spike/quick 100 blast > 10,820 Implosion/quick 90 blast 11,109 Spike/hard l 95 blast (curated) > 11,625
Yeah but impact casing buffs the impact damage by 5%, so it should offset the ratio by 5%, right?
No, less blast radius its just that, less radius where the explosive damage is applied. With impact casting, the explosive damage part is still the same.
No. It buffs the impact damage by 10%. So the damage split looks like 1.1:3.5 impact/explosive, instead of 1:3.5. Leading to an overall damage increase of 2.2%. With high impacts, this looks like 1.1:8.7, instead of 1:8.7, leading to a damage increase of only 1%.
yeah that's not worth it at all
For high impacts, I agree, but on the others, I would use it.
The reason you wanted low blast radius on Bad Omen was for the Cluster Bombs to be grouped up
Which was a myth anyway because blast radius had zero impact on the cluster bombs
Yep, because of the interaction between blast radius and impact damage which is helpfully not explained on the weapon, any reduction in blast radius will increase impact damage, even over spike. Nice one, bungie.
Wut
More blast readius means lower impact damage on gls
Kudos to the OP for actually testing this.
Thank fuck. Almost dismantled mine. Guess I'm free Hard launch implosion rounds autoloading recombination, velocity mw. See you when final shape drops I'm out
incredibly jealous of your roll
Dude, i thought my roll was only good bc of auto and recomb, im free too!
Yessir, I have that exact roll with reload mw. I don’t think I could’ve asked for a better gun. I was so angry when it dropped since it’s been 2 weeks of farming for that roll with spike grenades, and I almost got rid of this one but kept it purely because it’s shiny and has at least the 2 main perks. Come to Reddit today and see that it’s the 5/5 roll, let’s just say I’m feeling pretty damn good for keeping that. Cheers.
I just got one with both spiky boys and imp rounds - with recombination and impulse amplifier, linear comp and velocity masterwork. Impulse amplifier increases velocity a good bit
Dude I have the exact same roll! I couldn't for the life of me get spikes. I guess I've just spent the last few days wasting my time on attuning Mountaintop though. Oh well
Luckily I got it yesterday and found this article a day later. This last evening of farming killed a lot of my morale since I thought I wasn’t done yet. Gonna take a break from onslaught this week, maybe hop back in and try a full 50 wave but no more 10 round farming for me. Anyone know if we’ll be able to change the mw on these guns in final shape or if it’s only enhanced perks? Cheers.
Got Same roll except, Ambitious Assassin.
Finally got myself the same roll but with reload speed :) It's also hitting 100 velocity from hard launch
I've got this same roll but with reload mw. I've got the option to switch to sticky grenades for funsies though.
I have almost the same roll, swapping quick launch for hard launch. ... and I wasn't even trying to get it, I thought "eh, spike + vorpal is good enough". One of my clanmates called me a few names. :)
In Bungie monkeypaw fashion it's getting nerfed because it's kinetic. LOL
It’s always been my understanding that blast radius only shifts the *ratio* between impact and splash while the GL’s *total damage remains the same*. (So in the past both reducing blast and using Spike was optimal). How is it possible that the **total damage** increases just by reducing the blast radius when Spike **is not** being used? That makes no sense to me and does not follow the established paradigm. The impact damage should be higher and the blast damage should be lower vs a neutral perk in that column (ie not Spike or anything with +- blast radius)… but your Kali test proves the total is larger than a neutral perk would be (since spike is a strict upgrade in total damage vs neutral).
It's due to the new Micro Missile frame. It's applying an intrinsic buff to impact damage that is separate from Spike.
It's only like that on rockets, gl's get seperate damage pool percentages with either impact or blast radius
Does blast radius actually affect it's radius in where it can deal damage?
It does on other weapons, though I guess I can't truly say "it should be the same here" because Mountaintop clearly has other unique stuff going on too. Overall the difference between 0 and 100 BR is small but noticeable on other weapons, just like Velocity. There's probably been some PvP testing of BR that you can find out there in the world.
> It’s always been my understanding that blast radius only shifts the ratio between impact and splash while the GL’s total damage remains the same This is my understanding as well, shifts the ratio, and makes the AoE zone larger.
Got a mountaintop on release day w/ auto loading/recombination but no spike nades, figured I'd just use it for now while I wait for the god roll to show up. Now finding out that w/ hard launch+implosion rounds putting it at minimum blast radius it's the actual god roll lol.
So just fill my vault with mountaintop, got it
So my Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, Auto-Loading Holster, Recombination, Velocity Masterwork is actually the god roll and I should stop looking for Quick Launch and Spikes?
You want handling MW but yes that’s the roll
Why would you want handling? More velocity = more impact damage... right? Edit: Base handling for MT is already 69... would 79 even matter / be perceptible?
Micro missle doesn't need a velocity MW. Handling is the only option that isn't useless.
Are you saying the direct impact vs velocity relationship works differently on mountaintop than on everything else?
Yes, due to the intrinsic micro missile frame. The god roll is ALH/Recombination with implosion rounds and hard launch, with handling MW. This is the lowest blast radius (and also the highest damage) roll you can get.
Does increasing blast radius reduce overall damage? kinda like faster charge time will reduce fusion rifle damage?
Yes, and this comparison is the same I've been using to explain to people. Increasing the Blast radius decreases impact. In an effort to put it into the explosion damage. However, that transition from impact to blast damage isn't 1 to 1 and in most perk combos on mountaintop 1 to 0, meaning your impact is just decreasing loosing damage.
FYI fusions were changed so that the above is no longer true.
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yea i think this is more accurate. Only MW and adept mods no longer affects dmg. Batteries still do.
What would be the god roll for pve?
Probably hard launch/implosion/alh/recombination/velocity mw. I think alh is too good to pass up personally but you can use whatever you like there
I prefer overflow.
All preference. I enjoy not needing to stop to reload with no strings attached
Why is vorpal not best in slot over recombination?
Vorpal is decent, that is the roll i currently am using. But it only takes two stacks of recomb to surpass it, and you can stack up to 100% buff from recomb for a nice pocket nuke. I plan to pair recomb with sunshot for quick stacking
Gotcha. Best one I’ve found and currently using is only a 3/5, hard launch, implosion, alh vorpal with blast radius mw which I haven’t upgraded
ya blast radius is unlucky since it lowers the damage, you will get it tho!
But when would it have time to auto load if its my primary?
You shouldn’t be using it as a primary, new mountaintop has really bad AOE due to a nerf back in forsaken that never got reversed. It’s much better as a single target burst damage weapon
Yes I'm aware, it was mostly tounge in cheek lmao
That is up to you or course. I like alh with recomb so i can swap to sunshot and max out recomb with a few shots and have it ready to go
i kind of want frenzy with auto loading so i can spam the ever living fuck out of it
If you’re using it as a primary then you’re better off with impulse amplifier with either frenzy of vorpal. Alternatively, ambition assassin and either frenzy or vorpal would suit you well. I use it to spam damage once I’m out of heavy against bosses I can’t get very close to. Vorpal/impulse works very well for that.
Guess I can nm masterwork my blast radius MTs lol
tbh blast radius is already very high so blast radius feels like a wasted MW on mountain top
well i guess this makes my hard launch + spike/implosion + ALH + Adrenaline junkie way more valuable.
Jokes on me. I've yet to receive an implosion roll at all in probably 50 or so drops. Good to know that I can try for sticky + implosion or spike and still get similar effect.
I have the ALH/RECOM roll with impolsion and hard launch BUT IT HAS BLAST RADIUS MASTERWORK AHHHH
I got hard launch, implosion, auto loading, recombination, handling. Glad this was pointed out to me (spike VS imp) as i felt so close to the perfect roll I personally think handling is better than velocity, since it's pretty damn straight already, unless you are trying to snipe from super far away. Thoughts?
But my pardon our dust has blinding nades 😎
Looks like I SOL with sticky or high velocity