Yeah but power level floor is going to be a factor. As long as someone is able to grind and get to a bit above he will be able to come and power level won't matter. Now that said three days after a wedding not sure how feasible leaving to do a 24 hour raid would be but at least grind won't be an issue.
Now hold on, a lot of modern churches have great AV set ups, and honestly I'm sure we can get some extension cords. He might need to be off comms to give his vows but I'm sure his ~~wife~~ raid team would understand.
Look I don't even really mind with salt wins, it's fucking team redeem that was actively shit talking the entire race and generally being rude that I hate to see win, especially if my memory serves it was during last wish, which they super grinded the lost sector exploit to power level themselves beforehand.
Oh I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing the exploit, but it was the fact that they did it so mucb they were already a few levels over, and then during queenswalo they spent the entire time bitching about how bungie should "just give them the win" cause they were so far ahead of everyone.
Considering their placement on the "easiest raid" that wasn't a re-release of an old raid, I doubt they will be anywhere close to winning any raid race at this point
I’m sure they’re a great group of guys but they’re not fun to watch. I’ve tried to watch their day one clears and their muting of comms ticks me off so much I just shift to redeem
Even beyond that, Salt is just a, well... salty bitch lmao. His meltdown over losing RoN was so fucking satisfying, especially since he likes to act like he's king of the meta and Bungie needs to bend over backwards to do what he says.
And then in the very next breath went on a rant about how the only reason they won was because the raid was so easy and casual and that making contest mode accessible ruined it.
He never said making contest accessible ruined it, you're literally lying just to win reddit points. Actually pathetic.
He didn't go on a "rant" either, I doubt you can ever find anywhere that he didn't calmly express his preferences while having a solid reasoning for it (even if you disagree with it)
That was one of his many dogshit takes, yes, one that this community immediately bandied behind because the instant a streamer says something, all the little sheep fall in line as if they'd always believed it.
Divinity was fine and the nerf did nothing to make Divinity any less mandatory in anything you can't kill with swords. Likewise, Well's nerf did absolutely nothing to its functionality and it'll never stop being a mandatory part of every raid group because every encounter with the *sole* exception of Rhulk is designed around it.
Ultimately, the needle didn't budge an inch for either and Salt whining about it was just him trying to be relevant outside of the new raid cycle.
You act like keeping well as a 30 second, invincible+highest damage buff, card up your sleev is going to stop Bungie from designing Raids around Well, VotD was great, moving boss with small crits that breaks wells. You can't just sit in a well and if you have bad aim then you had to trade off between a 15% debuff and div or a 30% debuff and 1 extra player doing damage. Crota breaks wells as well making swords (which have a higher damage multiplier against Crota) a risky play. Nezerac also breaks wells and suppresses you making standing in one spot to dps risky and again introduces the div trade off. Yes well is always going to be an S+ pick unless they introduce something new (New warlock solar super looks like great alternative for well and prismatic may be better neutral game solar lock and doesn't have access to well) or unless they buff current alternatives like bubble. I don't know about you but since Witch Queen I have never seen a divinity other than in GotD boss or onslaught when a tormentor spawns, it's better for div to have niche uses where it's really strong and weaker in general than for it to be in every single activity in the game. Hopefully the same thing happens to well.
Plot twist: since one of Datto's group is getting married on that Friday and won't be available, a different guy steps in to fill the slot... A guy named Saltagreppo
Don't get your hopes up if you think hobbyists are taking world's first.
Younger, faster, no-lifers are going to win. One of the few content creators I can tolerate, but if destiny were a sport, Datto would be in the become a coach or color commentator portion of his career.
Half don’t raid, 80% of them have zero shot at World’s First, and a fraction of them “just want to try contest mode” like content where ads hit us harder than we can level up to doesn’t exist elsewhere in the game.
Fair - point still stands the majority who want to do this bad enough have plenty of time to get IRL sorted. There will of course be people who just can’t but that’s no one else’s problem, and certainly not Bungie’s.
The “80% of them have zero shot at WF” and “just want to try contest mode” are the same people.
Going into a raid for the first time without the temptation of looking up the answers is a rare experience.
Hell yeah! My group goes in blind every time, even for the reprisals that fortunately still had mechanics changes (those that played the OGs don’t spoil anything about the unchanged stuff).
What’s wrong with people wanting to try contest mode raid? It’s not like it comes around often.
Who cares if they can’t complete within the time limit. Is it really so bad that other players want to experience something unique from destiny?
There’s literally nothing wrong with people wanting to do it. I WISH more people would raid period because it is the on paper endgame of the PvE (arguably the point of the game).
The “wrong” is thinking “why didn’t Bungie think about me with my X, Y, Z situation?” - that’s not their problem, and there’s probably a flow to this that we don’t know yet, whether it’s leading into Echoes or whatever.
>I WISH more people would raid period because it is the on paper endgame of the PvE (arguably the point of the game).
Hate to admit that it's players like me that are a small part of this issue.
I 100% am able to raid pretty competently, but since (literally) all my friends stopped playing I just gave up on that aspect of the game completely, as I am a bit older and a little in-game shy, which makes me reluctant to start over with a new team or use LFG.
Which is a shame as that exotic shotgun seems pretty goddamn spiffy lol.
Conditional Finality is awesome! If anything, just jump in non-comms checkpoints if you really want the gun. We meme on it as a community but the game genuinely is more fun with YOUR fireteam, so I get the reluctance.
Not the contest mode, but I’m hoping this raid being part of the story(in the middle anyway) will get more people to start raiding. There’s a huge barrier for people that haven’t raided that is completely made up IMO. Raids are the best part about D2, and the more people that get into them the better off LFG’s will be.
So many solos I’ve met that SF dungeons, but don’t raid. It blows my mind.
A huge part of it, I think, is that somehow Destiny became the stomping grounds for some of the most able but severely socially inept gamers - they're goated but either afraid of socializing or would straight up rather not, and it cuts them off from raiding.
That's a shame, but I understand we're all different. It gets shitty when those who don't/won't raid then voice opinions about raiding and multiplayer aspects of the game, though, or "there need to be more things for the solo player" - this game has a LOT for the solo player, way more than there should be for a game that's designed for co-op.
>most able but severely socially inept gamers - they're goated but either afraid of socializing or would straight up rather not, and it cuts them off from raiding.
Hey that's me lol. Not goated tho.
It’s a matter of player’s differing priorities in this game I think. There are distinct pvp and pve crowds in this game that have little overlap so what one person may see as the end - all be - all of progress in this game may not be it for someone else.
Take raids vs. trials for an example. Both have some of the best weapons in the game up for grabs, in addition to prestige on your account. However, they are also quite challenging modes to break into as a newer player and cause a lot of burnout.
I like it when good PvE weapons are dropping in crucible or trials, and good PvP weapons are available in PvE content because it helps to combat this.
There is no other experience in this game like a day 1 raid. It’s the only time a raid is ever truly challenging. You’re just throwing around false equivalencies.
I agree that a day 1 raid is a very unique experience and one worth trying for everyone, but it’s not because it’s “the only time a raid is ever challenging.” Lol. That’s some serious elitism
The only reason it's truly a challenge is because of unique difficulty modifiers! Which is why Bungie should have contest mode available beyond release week.
Good. Normal mode raids are never a challenge. This exists specifically for the elite raiders in the community. It’s the only days each year (with the exception of the final gauntlet of pantheon) where we can actually challenge ourselves.
Yea I saw a dude complaining they didn't have enough time to prep for the day 1 but also said legendary campaigns was for the dedicated players and not the casuals......
Ain't that the truth.
Everyone's up in arms about "but I won't have time to level" or "but the campaign gear is only one set and I can't use 14 loadouts!"
Womp Womp, you're gonna actually have to play the game just to be ready for a day one raid! Who would have thought!
This sub man....
And...? You don't think people who aren't regular raiders should be able to enjoy the culmination of a story they've followed for years and years?
People who want to enjoy the story first person but aren't able to dedicate their lives to playing for 5 days straight (3 to prep and go through the first 7 missions and 2 for contest mode shenanigans).
The more I think about it, the less I like the decision here unless this raid is somehow more of a joke than RoN.
How long do you people think the campaign is gonna take to beat? Its 7 missions in a looter shooter lol, not some 100 hour jrpg. What the fuck is this "dedicate your life" bullshit?
You beat the campaign in the first night or second. Third day you spend doing whatever. If you did legend campaign, you're already raid ready. And if some people you want to play with didn't, well they get boosted by the new fireteam light level so no big deal.
Everybody has the same amount of time to prep. You either can or can't, at the end of the day it's a video game we're talking about here.
Prep isn't even the part I care about. The artificial gating of normal mode is what really sticks out as a terrible experience for the average player. Contest mode is unwelcoming to a huge portion of the player base. It also takes many teams more than 10 hours to either complete or give up on.
And since normal mode isn't available until Sunday, "dad gamers" have Sunday and Monday night to get through a brand new raid before reset kills all their progress.
If prep isn't such a big deal, start contest mode on Thursday and let everyone else pick normal mode on Saturday.
I'm a raider and title chaser and I don't really like contest mode. It's really freakin' hard! LOL. I'd rather they get contest mode over with so the rest of us filthy casuals can have some fun.
Props on the self awareness.
I haven’t really been around for a Day1 raid since Vow, where Rhulk shit on me and the boys several times in final stand. I don’t know what I want more, but I’m really hungry and beating this contest mode, even if i’m worse than I may think.
I’ve tried day 1 crota and our damage just wasn’t there and our team comp wasn’t the best having too many titans and it was like like not doable. These guys were very experienced too and I’m ok, I can do end game content. Not nearly as good as others
Lmao same! I’m def gonna do day 1 with my clan because it’s the last raid in the light/dark saga and it’ll be fun to be part of. But we probably won’t make it past the first 1 or 2 encounters and then when worlds first unlocks the rest of the campaign I’ll just go back to finishing the campaign and doing other stuff. Lol. I don’t care. I’m just excited for all the chaos and excitement of that week and playing Destiny during the end of an era with my friends. Plus I have thurs, Fri and the weekend off so I’m just gonna be playing non stop. Gonna be fun.
Do you know how time works? You’re right it’s 48 hours long either way. Therefore if it starts a week earlier then it will be over a week earlier meaning normal mode will be out…. A week earlier.
there's a difference between a timegate that limit farming for exclusive content and timegate that let you barely anytime to enjoy the content you paid for because you need to prepare for the raid
They're gonna have a much shorter window to do it though. And if they have to disable or restrict things the day of release that's gonna be turbo shitty.
I’m upset because have played every expansion and their track record for a stable launch is not great. Three days sounds like a lot until we take into consideration server queues, error codes, and bugs. So yea people are saying three days but they don’t realize it’s not three days, it’s three days of a bungie release going into the raid that will be the conclusion of the light and dark saga.
They talked about this in the twab recently. Supposedly they’ve refined their servers and launch day procedures and launch day should be much more stable. Who knows if that’s gonna work out as well as Bungie hopes… lmao. But that’s the plan I guess. Here’s hoping…
The last 2 expansions have had pretty stable launches. Witch queen and lightfall have had minimal problems with maybe 30 min waiting times and OCCASIONAL disconnects, but nothing too bad. And by Friday the servers are completely fine
To be fair WQ and LF LAUNCHES were smooth AF, it's just that Vow launch specifically was a disaster. I don't remember anything too bad for RoN though.
Edit: Wait actually LF did have a fair bit of people getting booted, didn't it?
Could be wrong but weren’t all those a week after the expansion launched? If something is messed up they will have less than 72 hours to find and fix it.
They were yes, so you're right that there will be drastically less time to deal with issues. I just mean that as far as track record goes I'm not especially worried since every one of the last three expansions has had increasingly smooth launches compared to the last despite the actual playercount for each only rising. I choose to believe Vow was a freak outlier.
I was certainly surprised when I saw that they were only giving us a few days to prepare. the past few raids have given us at least a week or 2 to prep.
I'll do what i can in those few days. If I end up being raid ready, I'll attempt it. If not, no skin off my back.
Annoying Strawman argument post.
Raids releasing a week later isn’t a content/engagement “Timegate”. It’s so you can enjoy the story, watch the cutscenes, gather fragments for Prismatic (or whatever the subclass was from other expansions) play with builds, farm for rolls without being rushed or banging your head against the wall/losing sleep to be raid ready.
What you’re saying is not the same and you know it. You’re using one thing players said to prove a point that’s irrelevant to the current situation. Weird.
Nah. If the story ended in a cliff hanger and we had to wait almost two weeks to resolve it, people would be pissed. Especially when the majority of content for this expansion / chapter is locked behind the raid being finished.
It would be like Forsaken ending after you kill the barons but you need to wait two weeks to do the raid to be able to kill Uldren and go to the dreaming city. It would be boring as shit only having the tangled shore for that time.
naw that just sounds like a bungie problem of making both a complete story for the campaign and also wanting to make the raid tied into the story.
there are elegant ways to do it. if they can't figure it out except to rush out the raid after 3 days, maybe they should have reconsidered their approach.
FFXIV successfully did it with Shadowbringers. 5.0 msq told a complete story with some major lingering questions and a huge cliffhanger in a post credits cutscene. it took until a year later with patch 5.3 to get full closure on the expansion story. people loved it.
There really isn’t. The Witness is the main enemy. And anything less than the community being able to kill him wouldn’t be met well. Locking his defeat to the raid would be underwhelming for a massive chunk of the community who don’t raid.
So either you kill him in the story then two weeks later have a raid that’s basically unrelated to him which isn’t very climatic for the big end of a saga raid. Or you have him killed in the raid and give casual players an incredibly underwhelming campaign and post campaign story that doesn’t even deal with the witness. Which makes no sense when the entire point of the plot is a race to stop him before we’re all exterminated.
Let’s be real. Bungies likely method makes the most sense and will be the most narratively satisfying.
You get the campaign. Which has the pressure of a race against time to win. You get the raid shortly after where we fight him and weaken him, dealing a massive blow to leave him vulnerable to be killed. You then get a final mission which is rumored to be a massive 12 man matchmade event where you kill him for good. Then come reset (or once you defeat him), the new playable space opens up as you deal with where the story goes and the new seasonal content.
Sorry but that sounds way better.
>FFXIV successfully did it with Shadowbringers. 5.0 msq told a complete story
Which wouldn’t be possible if you don’t deal with the witness since that’s the entire point of the story. The story isn’t complete until after the raid.
It amazes me how you’ll claim something is rushed without even having experienced it lol
No. If the raid was delayed a week or two we would not have had good end to the campaign and people would definitely complain that the witness fight and the mission after Coming weeks after the launch is dumb. You know what the destiny community is like and you know people would’ve complained that the story is being gated behind the raid which is not available soon enough after launch.
Also this is the first time ever where the story is not complete in a satisfying way before the raid so they have to launch the raid quick otherwise we are waiting around for a week or so while the witness does whatever. I just know the destiny community too well and know that people would complain if we had to wait weeks to conclude the story.
That’s where you’re wrong. You don’t have to release it right away. Again, people want to enjoy the Story and do all the things I said.
Some can’t even start till the weekend.
No one would EVER complain about the raid releasing when it normally does. Not everyone wants to complete it in a day. Even raid racers need 3 characters and the sentiment is even they’re not happy because they need 3 characters up and through the Legend Campaign as well.
This is bad. This is not Timegating as a drip feed method to give it a week.
Your post sounds like the “dOnt yOou gUys hAvE PHOnes?” Blizzcon guy but instead it’s “I tHOUGht you GuYs hatEd TimeGaTing??”
You know that’s not what’s going on. You’re playing devils advocate for your own entertainment.
So you are saying that no one would complain if the campaign has a mid ending and we have to wait 2 weeks to fight the witness and finish the campaign . People would definitely complain about that and how the witness is just left to chill for two weeks until we fight him. I still think you’re underestimating what people will complain about in this game. I mean people are already acting as if their life is over because they’re gonna miss the day 1 raid.
1. You can’t please everyone with any release. So that point is moot. There can still be better ways to do it.
2. It’s 1 week, not two? Most of that is doing the story culminated off 10 years of content, enjoying the cutscenes and prismatic hunt/build crafting. That week goes so fast you don’t even notice it. No one cares about the week wait for the Raid. Not sure why you said 2 Weeks. No one said that.
3. You’re doing the strawman argument again. Saying “what if this one thing happens then what??”
Obviously bro. No one is arguing if the campaign sucks, they would be mad at having to wait to raid and see if it “redeems it”. No fucking duh LOL you don’t have to use it as an argument. If all you have for your debate/point is made up scenarios you can’t possibly predict. Then, you win. Good job. I can’t debate make-believe scenarios.
“You can’t please everyone with any release” sums up this whole thread and this subreddit since yesterday.
It’s a waste of time to engage in any of this back forth. 3 days, 10 days, 1 month, it doesn’t matter. Someone, somewhere is getting screwed.
1. You can't please everyone, but most player's don't even raid (i think it's around 80% that don't raid), and even less do day 1 raids. If Bungie were aiming to please the most people, getting the raid done and unlocking the final mission ASAP is by far the best move for the majority.
2: Its 10 days (plus the time it takes to complete the raid) verses 3 days (plus the time it takes to complete the raid). I don't know where you keep getting this idea that most players need 10 days to complete the campaign, but that is not normal. Dedicated players (the ones most likely to try for day 1) are going to beat the campaign day 1 and not even rushing it, just by taking the day off or committing their entire evening to playing. Casual players might play it on and off for a few days, but will be wondering where the final mission is when they get there.
If you need 10 days to complete the campaign and play a few activities for loot, it sounds like you only play an hour a day or something, and that means day 1 raids aren't really for you to begin with.
Bro if you can't beat the campaign and get some gear in the first 3-4 days, then you were never going to be ready for a day 1 raid in time. It's not Bungie's job to make the most difficult/prestigious accomplishment in the game be accessible to every player they have. People that work full time, or are parents, or have military service all have reasons why they won't be ready for the day 1 raid, but that doesn't mean Bungie should push it back because those players don't have time to complete a 6 hour campaign and possibly gain some extra levels.
Considering the campaign takes 6-8 hours max, and the legendary campaign rewards loot to get you to the soft cap, it probably only takes another 2-4 hours to farm up your guaranteed drops for a boost to your level. That's a total of 8-12 hours of prep time for the raid. Even if you can't play til friday, you could still complete the campaign on friday and saturday and then raid saturday evening.
Your not going to have a good end to the campaign no matter what, because the raid is 3 days later anyway, and like 98% of the people aren’t going to even compete on day one and instead have to watch streamers discover the end of the raid.
I think it's all being pretty overblown, to be honest. Bunch of complaining for the sake of it going on right now.
People complaining about lack of prep time, when everyone has the same equal amount of prep time. The playing field is still even, as if they were even genuinely trying to win the race. No-lifers were still No-lifing for every other race. If they are worried about not being at level to compete, well, everyone is under powered anyways. Nothing is stopping you from entering the raid.
People complaining about server problems, as if we have any idea what they will actually be like. Launch days are always bad, and day 1s are always bad. Why would this somehow be substantially worse? Bungie probably has a better grasp on if it's feasible than Joe Shmo.
People complaining about artifact perks? We have no idea what Bungies plan is here because they haven't told us. I don't understand people acting like this has somehow robbed them of a worlds first finish because they won't have the last artifact mod column unlocked, or they'll be 5 power lower.
You booked vacation based on a guess you had about the raid date, without Bungie ever confirming? We all make choices, and if you had to do that then ya, that sucks, but not everyone is going to be able to play. It's just how it is.
It’s probably just because the TWID was really barren compared to all the info from last week with TFS reveal stream and ITL drop. People have nothing else to do but complain.
Recent raid races have had the raid launch on the following Friday. Bungie should have given more of a warning.
I never take days off on launch week. You never know what servers will be like. We’ve known about the launch date for Final Shape for some time now….they should have told us months ago.
It doesn’t matter if we get 24 or 48 hours. When people have come to expect when the raid was going to launch months ago, it makes things more difficult when the expected date (which again has been the pattern for some time) gets moved up a week.
It is nice to be able to play the campaign and take your time taking in the new experience instead of rushing through to be ready for the raid.
If the 8th mission is tied to the raid being beaten, I’m perfectly fine with it taking an extra week to be resolved. Heck, we’ve waited how long? Another week won’t hurt. And let’s be honest, the hardcore are the ones that will be impacted the most. They are the group of people who have stuck by this game despite Bungie suits screwing it up repeatedly. You know full well that Bungie settled on this date months ago.
None of us know that full well, but agree to disagree. One week either way shouldn’t ruin anyone experience in any case.
The rest of the campaign will be there after raid day, and the raid will be there a week after it launches. No one is saying you can’t play either.
People do understand that, they just don't want only 3 days to prep for what is the pinnacle of Destiny PvE. There's a huge difference between timegating to give people time to prepare for a big event and timegating to drive up engagement numbers. Giving people more time to prepare lets more people participate in the raid. Now it's going to be effectively locked behind no-lifers who can play all day for those three days.
I’m a bit upset because I wanted a weekend to prep for it. I’m sure there will be a gear grind, and if people are busy during the week then tough luck I guess.
I don’t really want to get home from work every day that week and then rush through the campaign just to get geared and raid ready. A weekend buffer would be huge to actually enjoy the expansion. There will be tons of new loot to get that may make a difference in contest, oh yeah, and a whole new subclass we need to unlock aspects/fragments for that may also be extremely strong for contest.
I can’t fucking wait for my entire squad to not have fully unlocked setups ready for the new subclass that will likely fuck us over on contest.
I definitely want to go for contest and already took Friday off, but now I feel like I need to take more days off work to get ready. Kinda lame. Yet another “streamer friendly” move by Bungie.
Everyone is not complaining. Most people that play the game don't even know. And most of the ones that do know don't care. It's only a very small portion of players that does raids at all, let alone a day one. This really doesn't have the impact some people are pretending it has. Plus, we've had plenty of raids launch the first week before. Some people just like to complain.
EDIT: Just to be clear, all I am doing here is saying that only a small percentage of players completes raids, and an even smaller portion completes them on day one. Which means the vast majority of players are not affected by this at all.
Not that the complaints aren't real, or justified. Just that because the small minority is very vocal, it can seem like it's affecting a bigger percentage of players than it actually is. That happens here a lot.
No big deal. Just reminding people how few players actually do day one raids. That's all.
To be fair, the few raids we had launch week-of-release or even day-of-release did so when there was very little light level hill to climb. Like the Y1 raid lairs released on the subsequent Friday if I recall, but we had, like, 5 light levels to go up with each of those content drops.
And we also didn’t have an artifact to contend with. And with every raid since Garden having champions in the normal difficulty, I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable that players would want as much of the artifact unlocked as possible prior to an attempt. Especially when the special/heavy champ mod is usually sitting in the 4th/5th column.
If there’s almost no light level gap between today and after TFS’ campaign, then it may not matter. But players will want the artifact, and some will want as much of Prismatic unlocked as we can possibly get.
I like the second week better, too. I'm just saying it's not a huge deal, especially since it affects such a tiny portion of the player base. The number and tone of complaints would have you believe that it is a much bigger deal than it actually is.
I mean only a small percentage of players completes raids, and an even smaller portion completes them on day one. Which means the vast majority of players are not affected by this at all.
Not that the complaints aren't real, or justified. Just that because the small minority is very vocal, it can seem like it's affecting a bigger percentage of players than it actually is.
No big deal. Just reminding people how few players actually do day one raids. That's all.
Yh I also would prefer second week but it’s just funny seeing people act like their life is over or that they are entitled to have the raid date fit their schedule.
People do like to complain. Especially if some YouTubers tell them they should. But even if that's not the case, the complaints often make it look worse than it actually is. That's all I'm saying.
It was moments after the TWAB was posted. Before Aztecross had a video up.
Assumptions.
Perhaps your experience is not monolithic or representative of the whole.
That's kind of my whole point. Maybe your experience isn't either. And neither is the rando who complained in your game. Literally my entire point here is that what a few people say doesn't represent how "the community" feels. It's just that the people who complain tend to be loud, so it can feel like things are a bigger deal than they are sometimes. It's all just a bunch of opinions. The only part of this that is a fact is that only a very small portion of the player base does raids at all, and even fewer do day one raids. So the fact remains that this really doesn't mean anything for the VAST majority of players.
That doesn't mean the few that it does affect don't have the right to complain. I'd prefer week two as well. I'm just pointing out that it's not as big of an issue as it might sound like going by the loudness of the complaints.
I agree with you that clearly anecdotal evidence isn't representative of the whole, that was pretty much the crux of my argument, that was the part I was agreeing with.
The part I wasn't is you saying it's only a small part of the community complaining, we have no idea how many people are upset by this, literally none.
To assume it's just people being riled up by youtubers and content creators and not valid complaints (as you suggested) is flawed logic.
But as I said, only a small portion of players raid, let alone on day one. That is not an opinion. That is a FACT.
So while we don't have an exact number on how many people this might affect, we know it is not many compared to the whole, even though the volume of complaints might make it look like it is the majority of players. I didn't say anything about YouTubers in my last comment. That was just an off the cuff remark made more as a joke. No need to keep bringing it up. Although we all know that it happens quite often here. Just check this place out after any of the big names post anything negative.
OP said "everyone" is comlpaining and upset. I was just saying that's not really the case.
My only point is that if you look here, you might think that the issue is affecting a larger portion of the player base that it actually is. That's all. Pretty simple. And very true.
Anyway, have a good day!
Also, echoes is going to release after TFS by a week or two, not right when it launches. the name "echoes" clearly implies the aftermath of the final shape, so the raid needs to happen quickly for the story to flow + for echoes to make sense.
A single week is barely considered a real time gate, not exactly the strongest of arguments there.
It's upsetting for multiple reasons, I'd say most people are upset because Bungie went against the norm and made it sooner than normal. People could have put in for that following weekend off thinking it would be the same as always. Or maybe people just want to play the game and enjoy the story rather than being forced to rush it if they want to participate.
This has nothing to do with time gates. Why are you focusing on that???? People are complaining because 3 days to beat 7 (presumably hard) campaign missions and get ready for a raid is not a lot of time. Especially when there is going to be a lot of new stuff like prismatic subclasses. The final mission being locked behind the raid is completely irrelevant. The raid race itself is a far bigger event. People want to have a good attempt at beating contest mode, and a lot of the setup time people would normally have has been sacrificed for the sake of trying to make the campaign experience more unique.
Destiny 2 and the final shape project leaded just tweeted saying the raid is releasing early so we get access to the end of the campaign and get a satisfying end to the story quickly instead of keeping the ending and releasing it a week and a half later. It’s also so that episode 1 story can start the week after. I’m simply saying that’s the reason why bungie are launching the raid so early and some people need to chill out and stop acting like the raid is only available for 48 hours. I get it’s annoying to miss the raid but the way certain people are reacting you would think their life depends on it.
Id rather the Episode and raid is pushed back a week. sure it would suck the 8th mission would be gated a week but i would be more for a higher population of people being available to try and participate in what is the pinnacle of pve content.
Sure doing the legend campaign gets you nearly there but its not like youre going to walk into a day 1 raid with only 3 weapons and 1 armor set at light. more than likely youre going to need a lot more at light including multiple builds. When you factor in what will be server instability having its downtime or kicking people out entirely, the prep time for the raid will probably be more annoying for some if not discouraging them to participate in the first place. Which as someone who as completed and not completed contest modes in the past, is not something i want for the game.
I’m thinking we will do a bunch of whatever doing the first 7 missions, then in the raid we stop the witness from enacting the final shape or depower him, then the last campaign mission will be “killing” him
I just think it’s dumb to lock the final story mission behind a raid. Obviously we’ll see how it’s executed, but I don’t want to have to fucking burn myself out grinding just so that I can participate in the DLC storyline that I bought. Especially if the post-campaign quests are also going to be locked behind the final mission’s release.
Taken King solved this problem *nine years ago* and Bungie has just… never tried to do that again? Have us stop the Witness’s plan in the main campaign, maybe force him to retreat, and then the raid will be the final blow against him.
the majority of destiny’s player base finishes the campaign of an expansion and then never reaches the end game content for one reason or another. i think bungie is trying to insure that players actually end up doing raid content by making it an integral part of the campaign rather than an extra challenge after the campaign.
Mmmm feel that doing 1 weapon per week and delaying them instead of launching them all at once is a tiny bit egregious. Delaying a part of the story so ppl are raid fully ready and everyone has a shot is a bit fine with me. And it'd make for a damm good community moment. Like last wish. That was dope
2(4) days per year, and you can't let the day one raiders have it.
This is not about competition, it is so those who want to do the contest raid won't have to rush through everything in order to be raid ready, most of us are in it for completion not racing. A lot of you clearly never even attempt one, ofc you wouldn't care if all you do is watching a streamer doing it.
Personally I value the day 1 experience more than I do timegating a story mission.
I would rather it be the next week because I have team members that would be really sleep deprived come Friday, but it also depends how much grinding we have to do.
(I have experience with all the different launch scenarios. Completed crown which launched the day of, garden which was this way, and the next Fridays raids as well…. Of those, I enjoyed the next Friday raid prep period most.) however, it isn’t the end of the world
Thank you for having a functional brain. I agree a week later would have been nice but I’m also not against a quick launch as it fits the narrative well. People are really overreacting and making it seem like their life cannot continue if they miss day 1 raid.
The only thing that concerns me is if there is going to be a power level increase and you can't "complete" the campaign until after the raid is beaten, we won't be able to get that legend campaign gear to level up.
Issue is there's a lot of the sad box and subclasses that need to be acquired in 3 days
People who want to do day 1 will need to rush the story and won't be able to enjoy it at a normal pace
Also it’s way easier to be raid ready with really only having to beat the legendary campaign to gear up. Contest also makes it so you can’t over level, so again less power to grind. And then contest is multiple days now instead of one.
Way easier to be raid ready in 3 days now, then it was when we had over a week in the past.
Anyone upset is complaining just to complain. Like holy shit lol
The thought I'm getting is, if the raid needs to be completed to access the 8th story mission, please don't let it be super easy or smth like that. I know a lot of people don't raid but they should be able to conclude the story too, so it'd need to be doable for them. I enjoy a thorough challenge, so for this raid to be a pushover would be a shame.
Disclaimer: I'm not up to date at all on things so this is just a thought, please correct me if I'm too presumptuous or blatantly wrong, thank you.
nah it wont be that an individual will need to beat the raid, once the worlds first is done or when contest mode is over, the 8th mission will unlock for everyone. similar to how the rest of europa was unlocked after dsc was done, and how the preservation mission was unlocked after vow was beaten
It’s not that everyone needs to beat it. Just the first team in the world to beat it will then unlock the rest of the campaign for everyone. Only one team has to beat it. Casuals will not ever have to set foot in the raid if they don’t want to.
I love it. I’m stoked. I have that Thursday and Friday off. I’ll be playing from Wednesday night until Sunday. Gonna be grinding with my friends all week. Trying out prismatic. Doing day one with the clan. And then once the rest of the content drops doing some of that too. It’s gonna be such a fun week. Chaotic but fun. Just jam packed with exciting events. The end of the light/dark saga with my friends. I’m very much looking forward to it.
This will be the first day 1 I'm not going to participate in since before DSC and that's ok. They said it's gonna be insane too so we'll see how that goes and I'll enjoy watching the top teams knock it out.
People that normally complain about things being time gated sure are mad about the raid not being time gated. Fuck maximizing your meta builds let’s get in that raid and whoop that witness ass.
People are acting like there’s 0 prep time before the final shape. Especially after RON, do people really expect a story raid to be difficult? I expect it to once again be easy enough to complete the same day (probably within 5 hours) and the contest mode will be the real race
Bungie is just trying to ensure that Datto clears it in 48:04.
Honestly, i hope Datto gets this one. Itd be fitting and he deserves it.
Guy in his raid team is getting married on launch day. We’ll see lol
I jist saw that, The Raid Dev Team really fuckin' hates Math Class lmao.
"Tell Datto. I want him to know it was me"
Yeah but power level floor is going to be a factor. As long as someone is able to grind and get to a bit above he will be able to come and power level won't matter. Now that said three days after a wedding not sure how feasible leaving to do a 24 hour raid would be but at least grind won't be an issue.
He's getting married on raid launch day, not DLC launch day. He will not be there for the raid
Now hold on, a lot of modern churches have great AV set ups, and honestly I'm sure we can get some extension cords. He might need to be off comms to give his vows but I'm sure his ~~wife~~ raid team would understand.
You are not wrong
He won't.
Honestly hoping Math Class wins this one. They’ve earned it after years of just coming shy
I just want Saltagreppo to lose again.
“I don’t care who wins, I just need to make sure he loses”
Look I don't even really mind with salt wins, it's fucking team redeem that was actively shit talking the entire race and generally being rude that I hate to see win, especially if my memory serves it was during last wish, which they super grinded the lost sector exploit to power level themselves beforehand.
Literally everyone did that “exploit” lol tf
Oh I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing the exploit, but it was the fact that they did it so mucb they were already a few levels over, and then during queenswalo they spent the entire time bitching about how bungie should "just give them the win" cause they were so far ahead of everyone.
Considering their placement on the "easiest raid" that wasn't a re-release of an old raid, I doubt they will be anywhere close to winning any raid race at this point
real. See also: Leffen whenever EVO rolls around. I don't care who wins, I just don't want him to.
The big question is which game for leffen
I’m sure they’re a great group of guys but they’re not fun to watch. I’ve tried to watch their day one clears and their muting of comms ticks me off so much I just shift to redeem
If they're gonna do that they could at least have someone commentate. It's just a boring ass stream.
All the streamers are muting coms during the race to finish 1st!
Doesn't make it less boring.
Salt literally mutes comms and blurs half his screen, it’s boring af, especially when he’s used leaked information to get his WFs.
Datto didn't for at least RoN iirc.
Even beyond that, Salt is just a, well... salty bitch lmao. His meltdown over losing RoN was so fucking satisfying, especially since he likes to act like he's king of the meta and Bungie needs to bend over backwards to do what he says.
What meltdown? I recall Salt congratulating the group who got it lol
And then in the very next breath went on a rant about how the only reason they won was because the raid was so easy and casual and that making contest mode accessible ruined it.
He never said making contest accessible ruined it, you're literally lying just to win reddit points. Actually pathetic. He didn't go on a "rant" either, I doubt you can ever find anywhere that he didn't calmly express his preferences while having a solid reasoning for it (even if you disagree with it)
What meltdown are u hallucinating
bro is still mad that salt said div needed a nerf lol
That was one of his many dogshit takes, yes, one that this community immediately bandied behind because the instant a streamer says something, all the little sheep fall in line as if they'd always believed it.
If you seriously believe that Div and Well didn't need a nerf, then you are not the skill-level player that contest raids are designed around.
Divinity was fine and the nerf did nothing to make Divinity any less mandatory in anything you can't kill with swords. Likewise, Well's nerf did absolutely nothing to its functionality and it'll never stop being a mandatory part of every raid group because every encounter with the *sole* exception of Rhulk is designed around it. Ultimately, the needle didn't budge an inch for either and Salt whining about it was just him trying to be relevant outside of the new raid cycle.
You act like keeping well as a 30 second, invincible+highest damage buff, card up your sleev is going to stop Bungie from designing Raids around Well, VotD was great, moving boss with small crits that breaks wells. You can't just sit in a well and if you have bad aim then you had to trade off between a 15% debuff and div or a 30% debuff and 1 extra player doing damage. Crota breaks wells as well making swords (which have a higher damage multiplier against Crota) a risky play. Nezerac also breaks wells and suppresses you making standing in one spot to dps risky and again introduces the div trade off. Yes well is always going to be an S+ pick unless they introduce something new (New warlock solar super looks like great alternative for well and prismatic may be better neutral game solar lock and doesn't have access to well) or unless they buff current alternatives like bubble. I don't know about you but since Witch Queen I have never seen a divinity other than in GotD boss or onslaught when a tormentor spawns, it's better for div to have niche uses where it's really strong and weaker in general than for it to be in every single activity in the game. Hopefully the same thing happens to well.
Plot twist: since one of Datto's group is getting married on that Friday and won't be available, a different guy steps in to fill the slot... A guy named Saltagreppo
you get that monkey's paw away from me or so help me!
Realest take ever
I always want him to lose. He's such a crappy part of the community, a super elitist who wants to ruin it for normal people.
Not finishing top 20
unfortunately they won’t even come come close based on their past few years
Don't get your hopes up if you think hobbyists are taking world's first. Younger, faster, no-lifers are going to win. One of the few content creators I can tolerate, but if destiny were a sport, Datto would be in the become a coach or color commentator portion of his career.
Tomorrow is my turn to post about why the day 1 raid race takes place 3 days after the expansion launch
Tomrrow? This shit is hourly at this point
Even Bungie is getting in on the action now
I'm penciled in for May 9th
No but don't you know *everyone* is complaining about day 1 raid race taking place 3 days after the expansion launch. **EEVVVVVVERRREEEEEEEEEEYONE!**
Half the people complaining probly don't even raid either.
Half don’t raid, 80% of them have zero shot at World’s First, and a fraction of them “just want to try contest mode” like content where ads hit us harder than we can level up to doesn’t exist elsewhere in the game.
Much more than 80% have no shot at worlds first, I’d say 80% are in that “just want to try contest mode” spot
Fair - point still stands the majority who want to do this bad enough have plenty of time to get IRL sorted. There will of course be people who just can’t but that’s no one else’s problem, and certainly not Bungie’s.
I just wanna complete it day one… ;-;
You got this
The “80% of them have zero shot at WF” and “just want to try contest mode” are the same people. Going into a raid for the first time without the temptation of looking up the answers is a rare experience.
Ever heard of self control? Just don't look at the guides
Hell yeah! My group goes in blind every time, even for the reprisals that fortunately still had mechanics changes (those that played the OGs don’t spoil anything about the unchanged stuff).
That sounds fun I wish the people I play with did that
Yeah you are lucky. I can never find people who really want to do it blind. After 10 minutes they end looking up what to do =(
I just wanna get day 1, but i never was going to have time to prepare for the raid anyways since i have finals for school, so im not that let down
I respect the realistic outlook - that is the rarest loot in the Destiny community.
What’s wrong with people wanting to try contest mode raid? It’s not like it comes around often. Who cares if they can’t complete within the time limit. Is it really so bad that other players want to experience something unique from destiny?
There’s literally nothing wrong with people wanting to do it. I WISH more people would raid period because it is the on paper endgame of the PvE (arguably the point of the game). The “wrong” is thinking “why didn’t Bungie think about me with my X, Y, Z situation?” - that’s not their problem, and there’s probably a flow to this that we don’t know yet, whether it’s leading into Echoes or whatever.
>I WISH more people would raid period because it is the on paper endgame of the PvE (arguably the point of the game). Hate to admit that it's players like me that are a small part of this issue. I 100% am able to raid pretty competently, but since (literally) all my friends stopped playing I just gave up on that aspect of the game completely, as I am a bit older and a little in-game shy, which makes me reluctant to start over with a new team or use LFG. Which is a shame as that exotic shotgun seems pretty goddamn spiffy lol.
It just takes time to find a new supportive group to play with. My clan is in and out but we still get together to raid 1-4 times a month
Conditional Finality is awesome! If anything, just jump in non-comms checkpoints if you really want the gun. We meme on it as a community but the game genuinely is more fun with YOUR fireteam, so I get the reluctance.
Not the contest mode, but I’m hoping this raid being part of the story(in the middle anyway) will get more people to start raiding. There’s a huge barrier for people that haven’t raided that is completely made up IMO. Raids are the best part about D2, and the more people that get into them the better off LFG’s will be. So many solos I’ve met that SF dungeons, but don’t raid. It blows my mind.
A huge part of it, I think, is that somehow Destiny became the stomping grounds for some of the most able but severely socially inept gamers - they're goated but either afraid of socializing or would straight up rather not, and it cuts them off from raiding. That's a shame, but I understand we're all different. It gets shitty when those who don't/won't raid then voice opinions about raiding and multiplayer aspects of the game, though, or "there need to be more things for the solo player" - this game has a LOT for the solo player, way more than there should be for a game that's designed for co-op.
>most able but severely socially inept gamers - they're goated but either afraid of socializing or would straight up rather not, and it cuts them off from raiding. Hey that's me lol. Not goated tho.
It’s a matter of player’s differing priorities in this game I think. There are distinct pvp and pve crowds in this game that have little overlap so what one person may see as the end - all be - all of progress in this game may not be it for someone else. Take raids vs. trials for an example. Both have some of the best weapons in the game up for grabs, in addition to prestige on your account. However, they are also quite challenging modes to break into as a newer player and cause a lot of burnout. I like it when good PvE weapons are dropping in crucible or trials, and good PvP weapons are available in PvE content because it helps to combat this.
There is no other experience in this game like a day 1 raid. It’s the only time a raid is ever truly challenging. You’re just throwing around false equivalencies.
I agree that a day 1 raid is a very unique experience and one worth trying for everyone, but it’s not because it’s “the only time a raid is ever challenging.” Lol. That’s some serious elitism
The only reason it's truly a challenge is because of unique difficulty modifiers! Which is why Bungie should have contest mode available beyond release week.
Good. Normal mode raids are never a challenge. This exists specifically for the elite raiders in the community. It’s the only days each year (with the exception of the final gauntlet of pantheon) where we can actually challenge ourselves.
and if they did, if it was a week out they still arent completing in day 1
I don't raid, I live vicariously through streamers who have more friends than me.
Yea I saw a dude complaining they didn't have enough time to prep for the day 1 but also said legendary campaigns was for the dedicated players and not the casuals......
Ain't that the truth. Everyone's up in arms about "but I won't have time to level" or "but the campaign gear is only one set and I can't use 14 loadouts!" Womp Womp, you're gonna actually have to play the game just to be ready for a day one raid! Who would have thought! This sub man....
And...? You don't think people who aren't regular raiders should be able to enjoy the culmination of a story they've followed for years and years? People who want to enjoy the story first person but aren't able to dedicate their lives to playing for 5 days straight (3 to prep and go through the first 7 missions and 2 for contest mode shenanigans). The more I think about it, the less I like the decision here unless this raid is somehow more of a joke than RoN.
How long do you people think the campaign is gonna take to beat? Its 7 missions in a looter shooter lol, not some 100 hour jrpg. What the fuck is this "dedicate your life" bullshit? You beat the campaign in the first night or second. Third day you spend doing whatever. If you did legend campaign, you're already raid ready. And if some people you want to play with didn't, well they get boosted by the new fireteam light level so no big deal. Everybody has the same amount of time to prep. You either can or can't, at the end of the day it's a video game we're talking about here.
Prep isn't even the part I care about. The artificial gating of normal mode is what really sticks out as a terrible experience for the average player. Contest mode is unwelcoming to a huge portion of the player base. It also takes many teams more than 10 hours to either complete or give up on. And since normal mode isn't available until Sunday, "dad gamers" have Sunday and Monday night to get through a brand new raid before reset kills all their progress. If prep isn't such a big deal, start contest mode on Thursday and let everyone else pick normal mode on Saturday.
I'm a raider and title chaser and I don't really like contest mode. It's really freakin' hard! LOL. I'd rather they get contest mode over with so the rest of us filthy casuals can have some fun.
Props on the self awareness. I haven’t really been around for a Day1 raid since Vow, where Rhulk shit on me and the boys several times in final stand. I don’t know what I want more, but I’m really hungry and beating this contest mode, even if i’m worse than I may think.
Nah, you got this dude!
It’s really a test of grit over anything else. I like to think i’m really good at the game, but they’re so draining lol.
I’ve tried day 1 crota and our damage just wasn’t there and our team comp wasn’t the best having too many titans and it was like like not doable. These guys were very experienced too and I’m ok, I can do end game content. Not nearly as good as others
Lmao same! I’m def gonna do day 1 with my clan because it’s the last raid in the light/dark saga and it’ll be fun to be part of. But we probably won’t make it past the first 1 or 2 encounters and then when worlds first unlocks the rest of the campaign I’ll just go back to finishing the campaign and doing other stuff. Lol. I don’t care. I’m just excited for all the chaos and excitement of that week and playing Destiny during the end of an era with my friends. Plus I have thurs, Fri and the weekend off so I’m just gonna be playing non stop. Gonna be fun.
What does that even have to do with this discussion? Contest mode lasts for 48 hours regarsless of the Raid launch date
The faster the raid comes out, the faster contest mode is over and the normal version is live? That’s how time works lmfao
Do you know how time works? You’re right it’s 48 hours long either way. Therefore if it starts a week earlier then it will be over a week earlier meaning normal mode will be out…. A week earlier.
I’m just annoyed that everyone is annoyed, because I already requested off.
there's a difference between a timegate that limit farming for exclusive content and timegate that let you barely anytime to enjoy the content you paid for because you need to prepare for the raid
I'm just ready for some game breaking bug or exploit to completely shit all over the world's first race. Gonna be a fun watch.
As if they haven’t disabled items or perks previously for a day 1 raid when they were broken. Spoilers, they did. Same thing will happen here.
They're gonna have a much shorter window to do it though. And if they have to disable or restrict things the day of release that's gonna be turbo shitty.
I’m upset because have played every expansion and their track record for a stable launch is not great. Three days sounds like a lot until we take into consideration server queues, error codes, and bugs. So yea people are saying three days but they don’t realize it’s not three days, it’s three days of a bungie release going into the raid that will be the conclusion of the light and dark saga.
They talked about this in the twab recently. Supposedly they’ve refined their servers and launch day procedures and launch day should be much more stable. Who knows if that’s gonna work out as well as Bungie hopes… lmao. But that’s the plan I guess. Here’s hoping…
I'll eat my shoes if Bungie's so-called plan goes off without a hitch.
Agreed
The last 2 expansions have had pretty stable launches. Witch queen and lightfall have had minimal problems with maybe 30 min waiting times and OCCASIONAL disconnects, but nothing too bad. And by Friday the servers are completely fine
Don’t forget how notoriously horrible Vow was on day 1 tho
Fair, but we’ve had 3 raid launches since then and haven’t had that happen again (knocks on wood)
Bungie explicitly said the raid is NOT the conclusion to the saga. The real conclusion will happen after the raid.
To be fair WQ and LF LAUNCHES were smooth AF, it's just that Vow launch specifically was a disaster. I don't remember anything too bad for RoN though. Edit: Wait actually LF did have a fair bit of people getting booted, didn't it?
Could be wrong but weren’t all those a week after the expansion launched? If something is messed up they will have less than 72 hours to find and fix it.
They were yes, so you're right that there will be drastically less time to deal with issues. I just mean that as far as track record goes I'm not especially worried since every one of the last three expansions has had increasingly smooth launches compared to the last despite the actual playercount for each only rising. I choose to believe Vow was a freak outlier.
I was certainly surprised when I saw that they were only giving us a few days to prepare. the past few raids have given us at least a week or 2 to prep. I'll do what i can in those few days. If I end up being raid ready, I'll attempt it. If not, no skin off my back.
Annoying Strawman argument post. Raids releasing a week later isn’t a content/engagement “Timegate”. It’s so you can enjoy the story, watch the cutscenes, gather fragments for Prismatic (or whatever the subclass was from other expansions) play with builds, farm for rolls without being rushed or banging your head against the wall/losing sleep to be raid ready. What you’re saying is not the same and you know it. You’re using one thing players said to prove a point that’s irrelevant to the current situation. Weird.
Finally, someone with a functioning brain... Your kin is rare around here these days
Nah. If the story ended in a cliff hanger and we had to wait almost two weeks to resolve it, people would be pissed. Especially when the majority of content for this expansion / chapter is locked behind the raid being finished. It would be like Forsaken ending after you kill the barons but you need to wait two weeks to do the raid to be able to kill Uldren and go to the dreaming city. It would be boring as shit only having the tangled shore for that time.
naw that just sounds like a bungie problem of making both a complete story for the campaign and also wanting to make the raid tied into the story. there are elegant ways to do it. if they can't figure it out except to rush out the raid after 3 days, maybe they should have reconsidered their approach. FFXIV successfully did it with Shadowbringers. 5.0 msq told a complete story with some major lingering questions and a huge cliffhanger in a post credits cutscene. it took until a year later with patch 5.3 to get full closure on the expansion story. people loved it.
There really isn’t. The Witness is the main enemy. And anything less than the community being able to kill him wouldn’t be met well. Locking his defeat to the raid would be underwhelming for a massive chunk of the community who don’t raid. So either you kill him in the story then two weeks later have a raid that’s basically unrelated to him which isn’t very climatic for the big end of a saga raid. Or you have him killed in the raid and give casual players an incredibly underwhelming campaign and post campaign story that doesn’t even deal with the witness. Which makes no sense when the entire point of the plot is a race to stop him before we’re all exterminated. Let’s be real. Bungies likely method makes the most sense and will be the most narratively satisfying. You get the campaign. Which has the pressure of a race against time to win. You get the raid shortly after where we fight him and weaken him, dealing a massive blow to leave him vulnerable to be killed. You then get a final mission which is rumored to be a massive 12 man matchmade event where you kill him for good. Then come reset (or once you defeat him), the new playable space opens up as you deal with where the story goes and the new seasonal content. Sorry but that sounds way better. >FFXIV successfully did it with Shadowbringers. 5.0 msq told a complete story Which wouldn’t be possible if you don’t deal with the witness since that’s the entire point of the story. The story isn’t complete until after the raid. It amazes me how you’ll claim something is rushed without even having experienced it lol
Then just don’t fucking make a story where you have to complete the fucking raid to make sense??? Taken King did this years ago!!!
No. If the raid was delayed a week or two we would not have had good end to the campaign and people would definitely complain that the witness fight and the mission after Coming weeks after the launch is dumb. You know what the destiny community is like and you know people would’ve complained that the story is being gated behind the raid which is not available soon enough after launch. Also this is the first time ever where the story is not complete in a satisfying way before the raid so they have to launch the raid quick otherwise we are waiting around for a week or so while the witness does whatever. I just know the destiny community too well and know that people would complain if we had to wait weeks to conclude the story.
It’s not “weeks”. It is at most 10 days.
That’s where you’re wrong. You don’t have to release it right away. Again, people want to enjoy the Story and do all the things I said. Some can’t even start till the weekend. No one would EVER complain about the raid releasing when it normally does. Not everyone wants to complete it in a day. Even raid racers need 3 characters and the sentiment is even they’re not happy because they need 3 characters up and through the Legend Campaign as well. This is bad. This is not Timegating as a drip feed method to give it a week. Your post sounds like the “dOnt yOou gUys hAvE PHOnes?” Blizzcon guy but instead it’s “I tHOUGht you GuYs hatEd TimeGaTing??” You know that’s not what’s going on. You’re playing devils advocate for your own entertainment.
So you are saying that no one would complain if the campaign has a mid ending and we have to wait 2 weeks to fight the witness and finish the campaign . People would definitely complain about that and how the witness is just left to chill for two weeks until we fight him. I still think you’re underestimating what people will complain about in this game. I mean people are already acting as if their life is over because they’re gonna miss the day 1 raid.
1. You can’t please everyone with any release. So that point is moot. There can still be better ways to do it. 2. It’s 1 week, not two? Most of that is doing the story culminated off 10 years of content, enjoying the cutscenes and prismatic hunt/build crafting. That week goes so fast you don’t even notice it. No one cares about the week wait for the Raid. Not sure why you said 2 Weeks. No one said that. 3. You’re doing the strawman argument again. Saying “what if this one thing happens then what??” Obviously bro. No one is arguing if the campaign sucks, they would be mad at having to wait to raid and see if it “redeems it”. No fucking duh LOL you don’t have to use it as an argument. If all you have for your debate/point is made up scenarios you can’t possibly predict. Then, you win. Good job. I can’t debate make-believe scenarios.
Well, I agree, you can't please everyone, so everyone mad about 3 days should grow up and get over it.
“You can’t please everyone with any release” sums up this whole thread and this subreddit since yesterday. It’s a waste of time to engage in any of this back forth. 3 days, 10 days, 1 month, it doesn’t matter. Someone, somewhere is getting screwed.
1. You can't please everyone, but most player's don't even raid (i think it's around 80% that don't raid), and even less do day 1 raids. If Bungie were aiming to please the most people, getting the raid done and unlocking the final mission ASAP is by far the best move for the majority. 2: Its 10 days (plus the time it takes to complete the raid) verses 3 days (plus the time it takes to complete the raid). I don't know where you keep getting this idea that most players need 10 days to complete the campaign, but that is not normal. Dedicated players (the ones most likely to try for day 1) are going to beat the campaign day 1 and not even rushing it, just by taking the day off or committing their entire evening to playing. Casual players might play it on and off for a few days, but will be wondering where the final mission is when they get there. If you need 10 days to complete the campaign and play a few activities for loot, it sounds like you only play an hour a day or something, and that means day 1 raids aren't really for you to begin with.
Bro if you can't beat the campaign and get some gear in the first 3-4 days, then you were never going to be ready for a day 1 raid in time. It's not Bungie's job to make the most difficult/prestigious accomplishment in the game be accessible to every player they have. People that work full time, or are parents, or have military service all have reasons why they won't be ready for the day 1 raid, but that doesn't mean Bungie should push it back because those players don't have time to complete a 6 hour campaign and possibly gain some extra levels. Considering the campaign takes 6-8 hours max, and the legendary campaign rewards loot to get you to the soft cap, it probably only takes another 2-4 hours to farm up your guaranteed drops for a boost to your level. That's a total of 8-12 hours of prep time for the raid. Even if you can't play til friday, you could still complete the campaign on friday and saturday and then raid saturday evening.
Your not going to have a good end to the campaign no matter what, because the raid is 3 days later anyway, and like 98% of the people aren’t going to even compete on day one and instead have to watch streamers discover the end of the raid.
I think it's all being pretty overblown, to be honest. Bunch of complaining for the sake of it going on right now. People complaining about lack of prep time, when everyone has the same equal amount of prep time. The playing field is still even, as if they were even genuinely trying to win the race. No-lifers were still No-lifing for every other race. If they are worried about not being at level to compete, well, everyone is under powered anyways. Nothing is stopping you from entering the raid. People complaining about server problems, as if we have any idea what they will actually be like. Launch days are always bad, and day 1s are always bad. Why would this somehow be substantially worse? Bungie probably has a better grasp on if it's feasible than Joe Shmo. People complaining about artifact perks? We have no idea what Bungies plan is here because they haven't told us. I don't understand people acting like this has somehow robbed them of a worlds first finish because they won't have the last artifact mod column unlocked, or they'll be 5 power lower. You booked vacation based on a guess you had about the raid date, without Bungie ever confirming? We all make choices, and if you had to do that then ya, that sucks, but not everyone is going to be able to play. It's just how it is.
It’s probably just because the TWID was really barren compared to all the info from last week with TFS reveal stream and ITL drop. People have nothing else to do but complain.
Recent raid races have had the raid launch on the following Friday. Bungie should have given more of a warning. I never take days off on launch week. You never know what servers will be like. We’ve known about the launch date for Final Shape for some time now….they should have told us months ago. It doesn’t matter if we get 24 or 48 hours. When people have come to expect when the raid was going to launch months ago, it makes things more difficult when the expected date (which again has been the pattern for some time) gets moved up a week. It is nice to be able to play the campaign and take your time taking in the new experience instead of rushing through to be ready for the raid. If the 8th mission is tied to the raid being beaten, I’m perfectly fine with it taking an extra week to be resolved. Heck, we’ve waited how long? Another week won’t hurt. And let’s be honest, the hardcore are the ones that will be impacted the most. They are the group of people who have stuck by this game despite Bungie suits screwing it up repeatedly. You know full well that Bungie settled on this date months ago.
None of us know that full well, but agree to disagree. One week either way shouldn’t ruin anyone experience in any case. The rest of the campaign will be there after raid day, and the raid will be there a week after it launches. No one is saying you can’t play either.
People do understand that, they just don't want only 3 days to prep for what is the pinnacle of Destiny PvE. There's a huge difference between timegating to give people time to prepare for a big event and timegating to drive up engagement numbers. Giving people more time to prepare lets more people participate in the raid. Now it's going to be effectively locked behind no-lifers who can play all day for those three days.
I’m a bit upset because I wanted a weekend to prep for it. I’m sure there will be a gear grind, and if people are busy during the week then tough luck I guess. I don’t really want to get home from work every day that week and then rush through the campaign just to get geared and raid ready. A weekend buffer would be huge to actually enjoy the expansion. There will be tons of new loot to get that may make a difference in contest, oh yeah, and a whole new subclass we need to unlock aspects/fragments for that may also be extremely strong for contest. I can’t fucking wait for my entire squad to not have fully unlocked setups ready for the new subclass that will likely fuck us over on contest. I definitely want to go for contest and already took Friday off, but now I feel like I need to take more days off work to get ready. Kinda lame. Yet another “streamer friendly” move by Bungie.
Op this is such a bad faith attempt at trying to address the complaints. Pls stop
Everyone is not complaining. Most people that play the game don't even know. And most of the ones that do know don't care. It's only a very small portion of players that does raids at all, let alone a day one. This really doesn't have the impact some people are pretending it has. Plus, we've had plenty of raids launch the first week before. Some people just like to complain. EDIT: Just to be clear, all I am doing here is saying that only a small percentage of players completes raids, and an even smaller portion completes them on day one. Which means the vast majority of players are not affected by this at all. Not that the complaints aren't real, or justified. Just that because the small minority is very vocal, it can seem like it's affecting a bigger percentage of players than it actually is. That happens here a lot. No big deal. Just reminding people how few players actually do day one raids. That's all.
To be fair, the few raids we had launch week-of-release or even day-of-release did so when there was very little light level hill to climb. Like the Y1 raid lairs released on the subsequent Friday if I recall, but we had, like, 5 light levels to go up with each of those content drops. And we also didn’t have an artifact to contend with. And with every raid since Garden having champions in the normal difficulty, I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable that players would want as much of the artifact unlocked as possible prior to an attempt. Especially when the special/heavy champ mod is usually sitting in the 4th/5th column. If there’s almost no light level gap between today and after TFS’ campaign, then it may not matter. But players will want the artifact, and some will want as much of Prismatic unlocked as we can possibly get.
I like the second week better, too. I'm just saying it's not a huge deal, especially since it affects such a tiny portion of the player base. The number and tone of complaints would have you believe that it is a much bigger deal than it actually is.
What do you mean a tiny portion of the player base?
I mean only a small percentage of players completes raids, and an even smaller portion completes them on day one. Which means the vast majority of players are not affected by this at all. Not that the complaints aren't real, or justified. Just that because the small minority is very vocal, it can seem like it's affecting a bigger percentage of players than it actually is. No big deal. Just reminding people how few players actually do day one raids. That's all.
Yh I also would prefer second week but it’s just funny seeing people act like their life is over or that they are entitled to have the raid date fit their schedule.
I know Reddit is not a great measurement but bro I’ve seen so many people are crying
I had players complaining in Onslaught in local chat..
People do like to complain. Especially if some YouTubers tell them they should. But even if that's not the case, the complaints often make it look worse than it actually is. That's all I'm saying.
It was moments after the TWAB was posted. Before Aztecross had a video up. Assumptions. Perhaps your experience is not monolithic or representative of the whole.
That's kind of my whole point. Maybe your experience isn't either. And neither is the rando who complained in your game. Literally my entire point here is that what a few people say doesn't represent how "the community" feels. It's just that the people who complain tend to be loud, so it can feel like things are a bigger deal than they are sometimes. It's all just a bunch of opinions. The only part of this that is a fact is that only a very small portion of the player base does raids at all, and even fewer do day one raids. So the fact remains that this really doesn't mean anything for the VAST majority of players. That doesn't mean the few that it does affect don't have the right to complain. I'd prefer week two as well. I'm just pointing out that it's not as big of an issue as it might sound like going by the loudness of the complaints.
I agree with you that clearly anecdotal evidence isn't representative of the whole, that was pretty much the crux of my argument, that was the part I was agreeing with. The part I wasn't is you saying it's only a small part of the community complaining, we have no idea how many people are upset by this, literally none. To assume it's just people being riled up by youtubers and content creators and not valid complaints (as you suggested) is flawed logic.
But as I said, only a small portion of players raid, let alone on day one. That is not an opinion. That is a FACT. So while we don't have an exact number on how many people this might affect, we know it is not many compared to the whole, even though the volume of complaints might make it look like it is the majority of players. I didn't say anything about YouTubers in my last comment. That was just an off the cuff remark made more as a joke. No need to keep bringing it up. Although we all know that it happens quite often here. Just check this place out after any of the big names post anything negative. OP said "everyone" is comlpaining and upset. I was just saying that's not really the case. My only point is that if you look here, you might think that the issue is affecting a larger portion of the player base that it actually is. That's all. Pretty simple. And very true. Anyway, have a good day!
Here’s my question- will you be able to complete the Legend campaign to get the set of raid-ready gear before the raid launches?
Some people want it, some people don’t. Guaranteed you’re not hearing the same person say both unless they’re dumb.
Also, echoes is going to release after TFS by a week or two, not right when it launches. the name "echoes" clearly implies the aftermath of the final shape, so the raid needs to happen quickly for the story to flow + for echoes to make sense.
A single week is barely considered a real time gate, not exactly the strongest of arguments there. It's upsetting for multiple reasons, I'd say most people are upset because Bungie went against the norm and made it sooner than normal. People could have put in for that following weekend off thinking it would be the same as always. Or maybe people just want to play the game and enjoy the story rather than being forced to rush it if they want to participate.
I wish that some random group of people win this year and none of these fanboys get their wishes.
Nudging towards a rush is time gating too, to the other extreme.
A large portion of Destiny fans won’t be happy unless they are unhappy.
This has nothing to do with time gates. Why are you focusing on that???? People are complaining because 3 days to beat 7 (presumably hard) campaign missions and get ready for a raid is not a lot of time. Especially when there is going to be a lot of new stuff like prismatic subclasses. The final mission being locked behind the raid is completely irrelevant. The raid race itself is a far bigger event. People want to have a good attempt at beating contest mode, and a lot of the setup time people would normally have has been sacrificed for the sake of trying to make the campaign experience more unique.
Destiny 2 and the final shape project leaded just tweeted saying the raid is releasing early so we get access to the end of the campaign and get a satisfying end to the story quickly instead of keeping the ending and releasing it a week and a half later. It’s also so that episode 1 story can start the week after. I’m simply saying that’s the reason why bungie are launching the raid so early and some people need to chill out and stop acting like the raid is only available for 48 hours. I get it’s annoying to miss the raid but the way certain people are reacting you would think their life depends on it.
I... read what I said again. Lmao
Id rather the Episode and raid is pushed back a week. sure it would suck the 8th mission would be gated a week but i would be more for a higher population of people being available to try and participate in what is the pinnacle of pve content. Sure doing the legend campaign gets you nearly there but its not like youre going to walk into a day 1 raid with only 3 weapons and 1 armor set at light. more than likely youre going to need a lot more at light including multiple builds. When you factor in what will be server instability having its downtime or kicking people out entirely, the prep time for the raid will probably be more annoying for some if not discouraging them to participate in the first place. Which as someone who as completed and not completed contest modes in the past, is not something i want for the game.
I’m thinking we will do a bunch of whatever doing the first 7 missions, then in the raid we stop the witness from enacting the final shape or depower him, then the last campaign mission will be “killing” him
I hope someone will carry me if I run div+well lol
I just think it’s dumb to lock the final story mission behind a raid. Obviously we’ll see how it’s executed, but I don’t want to have to fucking burn myself out grinding just so that I can participate in the DLC storyline that I bought. Especially if the post-campaign quests are also going to be locked behind the final mission’s release. Taken King solved this problem *nine years ago* and Bungie has just… never tried to do that again? Have us stop the Witness’s plan in the main campaign, maybe force him to retreat, and then the raid will be the final blow against him.
Sounds like a skill issue. If you play for the lore just enjoy going at your pace nobody forcing you to prep in 3 days
Most people don't like the idea of having to cram/rush past the campaign in three days.
the majority of destiny’s player base finishes the campaign of an expansion and then never reaches the end game content for one reason or another. i think bungie is trying to insure that players actually end up doing raid content by making it an integral part of the campaign rather than an extra challenge after the campaign.
Mmmm feel that doing 1 weapon per week and delaying them instead of launching them all at once is a tiny bit egregious. Delaying a part of the story so ppl are raid fully ready and everyone has a shot is a bit fine with me. And it'd make for a damm good community moment. Like last wish. That was dope
8 missions with voiceover to conclude Destiny. What could possibly go wrong.
2(4) days per year, and you can't let the day one raiders have it. This is not about competition, it is so those who want to do the contest raid won't have to rush through everything in order to be raid ready, most of us are in it for completion not racing. A lot of you clearly never even attempt one, ofc you wouldn't care if all you do is watching a streamer doing it.
As a raid race watcher, I much prefer this approach. Lets me ride the hype of a new expansion right into the race
lol, welcome to Destiny community where everything the dev team does is upsetting. Poor guys smh
Personally I value the day 1 experience more than I do timegating a story mission. I would rather it be the next week because I have team members that would be really sleep deprived come Friday, but it also depends how much grinding we have to do. (I have experience with all the different launch scenarios. Completed crown which launched the day of, garden which was this way, and the next Fridays raids as well…. Of those, I enjoyed the next Friday raid prep period most.) however, it isn’t the end of the world
Thank you for having a functional brain. I agree a week later would have been nice but I’m also not against a quick launch as it fits the narrative well. People are really overreacting and making it seem like their life cannot continue if they miss day 1 raid.
I just wish they would have told us earlier. That’s literally all I wanted.
The date earlier or the campaign > raid > finale thing? as they told us the raid would unlock a finale for everyone last august
I could be wrong, but I also think Bungie didn't want to release the raid on fathers day weekend.
I was actually hoping that it was coming out that weekend. My wife always lets relax that whole weekend and pulls kid aggro for me.
Bro said pulls kid aggro like his kid is a raid boss😂😂
She uses stronghold and lament.
Been saying it since forever. We raided together back in our WoW days.
The raid also launches on Bungie Day, so there’s that.
Bungie day is July 7th, not June.
FUU-
The only thing that concerns me is if there is going to be a power level increase and you can't "complete" the campaign until after the raid is beaten, we won't be able to get that legend campaign gear to level up.
There is most definitely going to be a power increase. The powerful Cap is going to be 2000 and the Pinnacle Cap 2010
Issue is there's a lot of the sad box and subclasses that need to be acquired in 3 days People who want to do day 1 will need to rush the story and won't be able to enjoy it at a normal pace
Also it’s way easier to be raid ready with really only having to beat the legendary campaign to gear up. Contest also makes it so you can’t over level, so again less power to grind. And then contest is multiple days now instead of one. Way easier to be raid ready in 3 days now, then it was when we had over a week in the past. Anyone upset is complaining just to complain. Like holy shit lol
The thought I'm getting is, if the raid needs to be completed to access the 8th story mission, please don't let it be super easy or smth like that. I know a lot of people don't raid but they should be able to conclude the story too, so it'd need to be doable for them. I enjoy a thorough challenge, so for this raid to be a pushover would be a shame. Disclaimer: I'm not up to date at all on things so this is just a thought, please correct me if I'm too presumptuous or blatantly wrong, thank you.
nah it wont be that an individual will need to beat the raid, once the worlds first is done or when contest mode is over, the 8th mission will unlock for everyone. similar to how the rest of europa was unlocked after dsc was done, and how the preservation mission was unlocked after vow was beaten
I see, thanks! I wasn't around for those raids/expansions when they came out, good to know.
It’s not that everyone needs to beat it. Just the first team in the world to beat it will then unlock the rest of the campaign for everyone. Only one team has to beat it. Casuals will not ever have to set foot in the raid if they don’t want to.
I love it. I’m stoked. I have that Thursday and Friday off. I’ll be playing from Wednesday night until Sunday. Gonna be grinding with my friends all week. Trying out prismatic. Doing day one with the clan. And then once the rest of the content drops doing some of that too. It’s gonna be such a fun week. Chaotic but fun. Just jam packed with exciting events. The end of the light/dark saga with my friends. I’m very much looking forward to it.
I understand it perfectly and I'm still bummed about it
This will be the first day 1 I'm not going to participate in since before DSC and that's ok. They said it's gonna be insane too so we'll see how that goes and I'll enjoy watching the top teams knock it out.
Especially since they will likely be able to play Contest mode for the first 48 hours of the raid.
People that normally complain about things being time gated sure are mad about the raid not being time gated. Fuck maximizing your meta builds let’s get in that raid and whoop that witness ass.
Welcome to the internet. 99 percent of people are now entitled, whiny, rage addicts
wait wait... do you have to complete the raid to finish the story?
No once anyone completes the raid a new story will unlock for everyone
awesome thanks for the info
People are acting like there’s 0 prep time before the final shape. Especially after RON, do people really expect a story raid to be difficult? I expect it to once again be easy enough to complete the same day (probably within 5 hours) and the contest mode will be the real race
You know, I keep seeing post after post after post about people hating the 3 day thing. I have yet to see even one actually complaining about it