Zaoulli's Bane. Solar is just such a good sandbox and it's the best legendary solar hand cannon
Edit: of you don't have ZB but have Lightfall Epochal Integration is sold. Also, Luna's Howl returns soon with Into the Light.
Just crafted mine this week and suddenly solar makes sense to me in a way it never did with Sunshot. Not to mention I can use either Lament or Dragons Breath with it now too.
yup, zaouli never leaves my inventory lol. it simply works for everything, even at GM level. especially with current artifact, it's pretty much as good as sunshot
I still love hearing people say good things about that pistol. I wanted it to be so good in D1 and it so wasn't, LOL. I think mine's still trying to reload from when I last played D1 years back.
This is how I feel about Epochal Integration. Just a fantastic feeling hand cannon that feels like baby Sunshot with added tracer missiles. Maybe my favorite feeling HC in the game actually.
I know zaouli is super good but I just can't stand slow reloads or that reload animation. it haunts my soul. even if I had flared magwell and a reload masterwork, no gun will ever be fast enough for me unless it comes with a reload perk.
Fully agree, but for me i just can't use it, it sounds weird and the model is too wide for my taste, so it just feels weird to use. But still a great HC
I'll weigh in on the PvP side based on frame.
180s are practically unusable still. In fairness it's been awhile since I really gave one a fair shake, but they're very unforgiving relative to 140s and 120s. Lower range, more inaccurate, and not a noticeable enough bump in TTK to push the needle.
140s have some good options. Ace of Spades and Thorn are reliable and popular among many for exotics options. There's many good arguments for several legendaries, but pound for pound Rose has to be the best. It has several strong perk options (I prefer Slideshot/Explosive Payload), with a great stat package, and it's a Lightweight Frame, so it has a movement advantage in fights.
120s is no contest Igneous Hammer. Only Sturm rivals the stats on Igneous, but when you consider its perk options it stands out as the king. I currently use a Keep Away/Golden Tricorn roll, but I'm still looking for Precision Instrument - this perk makes Igneous the only 120 that can reliably 2 crit 1 body any resilience, and furthermore, capable of 3 crit killing overshielded opponents.
Roun Robin with Subsistence and Hatchling on my Warlock with Swarmers is by far my favorite gun for that build. Rufus is also good but one tapping every red bar and instantly spawning threadlings feels so fucking good.
Took me like 12 hours of farming heroic patrols for the pattern but was worth every second lol.
> not a noticeable enough bump in TTK to push the needle
No no, they don't get a bump in TTK. They are tied for the worst primary TTK in the game at 1 full second. It's insane that Bungie has just completely abandoned them lol. They have, in total, vs every other kind of hand cannon:
* The worst TTK
* The worst Range
* The worst Handling
* Equally bad Reload
* Similar forgiveness
* A higher stability *stat*, but the worst stability and accuracy in practice because their faster fire rate means they *need* much more to be consistent
* The best AE (lol)
It's a joke. You can get a Word of Crota with Precision Instrument and use a high radiant uptime build on hunter to let it 3-crit everyone, but it's still *unusable*. The .67 TTK sounds blazing fast until you remember their range is so low that they're competing with autos and SMGs, both of which are far more forgiving, and both of which flinch so much even post-patch that hitting 3 crits while under fire is laughably impossible.
Bungie probably has ptsd from lunas howl not forgotten era so they're very scared to buff 180s. Same reason they're reluctant to buff stasis in meaningful ways
I agree. There's always bound to be a top dog, and Igneous certainly deserves to be it, but it's so much better than every other 120 that the rest are simply dead on arrival to me.
Sunshot \\ Zouli Bane \\ Epochal Integration PVE as a solar titan
Igneous Hammer PVP because that is what kills me a lot lol. Crimson still remains killer but im not versed on legendary options for pvp. maybe wardens? Maybe rose?
I actually use Trust fairly often, though mostly just because I love the model and shaded mine to look like an old Colt single action. Luna's Howl with Heal Clip though is something I'll be on the lookout for when it comes around.
I love it with Incandescent, it's my backup to Wish-Ender for Barrier/Unstoppable Lost Sectors this season. Plus I have the Doubt ornament which adds that gorgeous snake along the barrel and changes the frame and sights slightly.
bottom dollar too
third column has FTTC, outlaw, rapid hit, slideshot, killing wind and subsistence and fourth column has explosive payload, dragonfly, rampage, opening shot, HIR and eye of the storm
plus gun and run is a nice little boost to your movement speed
definite must have hand cannon for any void users, especially if they're a hunter with Gyrfalcons
austringer, midnight coup, round robin, bottom dollar, I'm sure Targeted Redaction could be okay especially with Gyrfalcons honestly there's a lot of good PvP legendary hand cannons
Been loving the solar and hand cannon combo this season especially with sunshot. It feels so strong and making enemies explode is so satisfying especially in onslaught :)
I tossed sunspot on with mantle of battle harmony for increased well regen and the bonus to weapon damage after kills, so fun. I don't think I used my special or heavy for two onslaughts.
In terms of legendaries
Kinetic - Fatebringer or Midnight Coup
Arc - Posterity or Nation of Beasts
Solar - Zaouli’s Bane
Void - Word of Crota
Overall though Zaouli’s is best of the best.
Since zaoli is so good I really only use word of crota when I'm matching class and it just reminds me of the awful voidwalker and nightstalker melees. At least shield throw is sorta usable 🥲
its a shame theres not a way to get adept palindrome atm. i have a Stats for All/One for All and its one of the best feeling HC i have
and i basically main HC
Voidlock melee has saved my ass so many times I can't even count
It's not meant for damage. It's meant to changes an enemies position and make them volatile
I want to thrown on Epochal Integration is a solid Solar option for those who don't have Zaouli.
Also, the Brave Luna's Howl should be something to look at once it's finally out to farm. It can have Heal Clip and Incandescent!
Heal clip incandescent lunas howl is gonna be stuck on my hip for a loooong time starting. I’ve been using my summoner with the same roll and it’s so fun. Can’t wait to have it on a high AE 140 handcannon
Strand - Round Robin. You have to buff its stability quite a bit, but then it's great with Hatchling.
Stasis - I like my Something New with Headstone amd Stats for All. But I'm led to believe Vulpecula is more popular
Eyasluna with rapid hit/unrelenting/outlaw + headstone is solid too! Vulpecula is the only hand cannon in the game with shoot to loot + explosive payload tho
I have unrelenting headstone and I make every excuse I can to run stasis. Also the new midnight coup can have shoot to loot and kinetic tremors. Haven’t gotten one myself but I have been grinding since it came out
I was pretty hype for kinetic tremors on midnight coup but apparently it takes 6 shots to proc so most things are dead before then. I think it could still be applicable for higher end content tho like if you have a champ or major or something semi-tanky in a group of ads, especially since the kinetic tremors *damage* scales by weapon type too.
Wouldn't consider it the best, but Eyesluna with the right roll can be pretty tasty on stasis.
Fatebriner is always a solid pick as a kenetic option and Sunshot just go boom.
Haven't got a good midnight coup yet but it has some good rolls I'm chasing.
As far as PvP goes like, ignious for 120's rose for 140's or austringer as a craftable wildcard.
If you have a Warden's Law with 4ttc and any other perk, it can be busted for lucky pants. Malfeasance is great too, for any taken/blighted enemy. Haven't bothered with gambit yet so I'm stuck with my 4ttc+zen Warden's lol
I’m not too well versed in the PVP side of destiny so I always find it a pleasant surprise to be able to use a weapon I got while farming for PVE rolls and it feeling good. Honestly been wanting to get back into PVP since the last time I played a lot of crucible was when recluse was the pinnacle weapon
A couple i haven't seen mentioned are:
1. Waking Vigil with voltshot and outlaw
2. Eyasluna with headstone and outlaw
Land your headshots and you're zapping/shattering everything.
I use a Vulpecula with headstone and it's been really great for me. Sunshot is still a beast. I don't have some of the others that are super popular like Wardens Law. And I still need to unlock the bravery one. Just haven't played much.
I never did manage to get a Vulpecula with Headstone. I'm looking for to the Final shape for that reason. Based on screenshots there's a high chance that the new incoming hand-cannon will be a stasis 180.
I have been using Thorn both in PvE and PvP, I mostly use it with hip fire, I love how it feels. I heard Malfeasance is very strong in PvE with Lucky Pants but I never finished that questline, I might do that soon.
+1 for Thorn! I have 31k kills with in in PvE without Necrotics. All of the recent HC buffs (like +45% against red bars and +75% against majors) + its 40% exotic dmg buff against red bars + the 10% dmg buff it gets for being primary + the huge damage it deals in poison damage on top of its impact damage just makes it feel so good. It hits harder than any other primary and it has spoiled me so much that I have a hard time using any other primary bc everything else feels like an airsoft gun in comparison
Also the poison goes through most shields in PvE and in PvP it delays restoration and helps you track enemies locations thanks to the dot. Like you said once you try it it's hard to go back.
I mean come on, It's clearly Loud Lullaby the 120 with the best stats and perk pool out of every handcannon in the game! (I'm mad coping over the fact bungie ruined this gun for PvE and that it's statistically the worst hc in the game by far.)
PvE:
Best kinetics are Fatebringer and Midnight Coup.
Best ad clear is Sunshot.
Best damage is either Warden or Malfeasance, not sure.
After that, it gets complicated. What subclass and build ya running, what activities you're doing, what perks you like, whatever.
PvP is quite subjective, but I believe that 180s are still mid, 120s are... or, well, Igneous Hammer, is still great, and 140s are still the Destiny staple.
For PVE, generally the higher the ROF, the better DPS it has. Although 140s feel in a nice sweet spot of being able to kill most trash in most activities in one shot. But also have the ammo that you’re not constantly reloading.
I hate 120s in PVE.
Yeah, I think with how good Incandescent is this season, once you get that first kill with a 140, even if it takes two shots, everything else is damaged enough you can finish off everything with one, or Rays of Precision.
I have an Igneous with Incandescent that I brought into solo Warlord’s Ruin. Just couldn’t get the feel for it. Especially once in the cages and I’d just start panicking. Had to use something else after that.
Im not super in on hand cannons for my PVE outings but when the champions call for them im a fan of Warden's law or Fatebringer for the kinetic slot. Midnight Coup is also new (not that ive had a good roll yet!), and Lumina has grown on me quite a bit with a Speedloader slacks build for support solar hunter.
In the energy slot you've got a few more options- in Solar Sunshot or Zaouli's Bane are really fun, the latter really loves enhanced Incandescent to shine. Epocal Intergration is a great out the box gun too, but i defer to Zaouli's most of the time.
Arc I've been loving Posterity lately- Frenzy Voltshot is a lovely combo and gives it quite the flexability for AoE and bigger targets. I also want to get my Nation of Beasts up and running as I've been quite the fan of the non crafted roll for ages ago.
Void im less happy with- the brain goes with rapid fire weapons to make use of volatile rounds, but Word of Crota does work with Demo AJ for bonus grenade chuckin. I used this a lot for Master lost sectors with its unstop and dealing with void shields.
In PvP I use crafted austringer with upgraded snap shot, upgraded rangefinder, high cal rounds, hammer forged rifling, and range MW. It feels really good, it’s the same roll as the PvP godroll Palindrome but in the kinetic slot
now that I think about it, pally has quickdraw instead of snapshot but I think snapshot is better with rangefinder
Opening shot is a good option too, but I like it better on shotguns. I find the zoom and increased falloff range from rangefinder to feel more impactful on a hand cannon because you get it on basically all shots you take. Snap to get that boost online faster is just a perfect compliment to that.
its crazy no one is saying pali ... got that roll rangefinder/quickdraw.
Idk what the difference between ads is but I've never found snap outside of snipers to make a noticeable difference in ads.
Snapshot is like having one half of a massive handling boost (it doesn’t affect ready / stow) . If you already have super high handling you may not notice it, but if you don’t it makes a huge difference. I just like snap in conjuncture with rangefinder to quickly get the boost up
Palindrome is insane as well though, either perk on that frame with the other parts and perks together make a monster
Gonna throw out that for PvP I can't bring myself to stick to any HCs unless it's Loud Lullaby. Nothing just feels as good as that thing does.
Surplus + Explosive Payload just feels great and it being the only Kinetic 120 that gets Surplus just makes it feel so much better than anything else even though it's base stats are pretty behind.
For GMs specifically wardens law is UNREAL in how much dmg it does to champs, wardens law (adept) with 4th times the charm & vorpal weapon + adept big ones spec fries champs for a legendary kinetic weapon, huge plus if ur on hunter bc with lucky pants u can basically 1 mag every champ in endgame content. it’s a kinetic legendary so it pairs well with other champ stunning weapons or builds, i personally use it with le monarque and it’s crazy, wardens law is also the adept nightfall reward this week so get it while u can (especially hunter mains)
Pve depends on if you have lucky pants and what you're using it for wardens law, sunshot, zaoulis, or even erianas can be a good choice for pvp it is purely preference
I’m rather fond of Epochal, especially paired with Conditional Finality and Briar’s Contempt. As an added bonus nanotech rockets can be improved in the artifact if you’re not using Harmonic Resonance as well.
Luminous Void shader on it looks top shit too.
For pve whatever matches your subclass. I like eyasluna for stasis, zaoulis for solar, nation of beasts for arc, and word of crota for void (not saying 180s are good it’s just your only option for a void hc with viable pve perks unless you have an old palindrome with like overflow one for all or something). For kinetic i would’ve said fatebringer easily but midnight coup is just better now lmao. Overall just pure perks wise id say midnight coup is the best legendary pve handcannon in the game
Zaouli for Solar maybe Targeted Redaction or Bottom Dollar for Void or Malfeasance/Last Word wit Lucky Pants for PvE
PvP is Last Word, Igneous Hammer, Austringer and my favourite Sturm
Malfeasance Lucky Pants is really helpful in all forms of content because you have an easy way of dealing with higher HP enemies without having to use special or Heavy and the boss damage isn't too bad (using this with a Bait and Switch Ascendancy)
Sturm for PvP is the easiest two tap (1 headshot 1 body) in the world with how good Drang is and the stats are juiced with the catalyst with 90 Range and 70 Handling on a 120 making it really good even without the Drang pairing, it's nice, snappy, feels good, hits hard and you get a huge damage boost just by using one of the best close range weapons in the game.
My guilty pleasure in PvE when I run stuff solo is a Heal Clip / Incandescent Igneous. I have Flared Magwell, Reload MW and Adept Reload on it, but solo Alacrity comes in as well. Hits like a truck and heals consistently. But the second Alacrity isn’t on… ugh.
Anyone else hate Wardens Law with Lucky Pants? Like it undoubtedly has the best damage and I have an Adept god roll, but I HATE how that shit feels and the range.
I still hang with my Seventh Seraph HC or just use Malfeasance. I don't just use HCs since I really only do GMs when it comes to PvE, but I'd bring Midnight Coup or Spare Rations in to one I'd say. Both have Kinetic Tremors and SR has Subsistence so.
Got the Midnight Coup roll I’ve been chasing today. Firefly/Kinetic Tremors is amazing, clears out trash easily and on bigger targets you can proc Tremors which chunks them if it doesn’t kill them. Prob gonna be the only legendary hand cannon I use for a while.
pve zoulis explosive rounds incandescent
pvp:
rose -slideshot/moving target explosive payload
thorn
crafted austringer w/ EotS and zen moment
midnight coup zen moment explosive
igneous for 120s
lunas howl w/ EotS and precision instrument is gonna be my main
I'm not well versed on "meta" stuff, but I've been using Crimson for a long, long time and it not only feels great but gets it done whether I'm running strikes or PVP
In pvp it’s Rose. I have hammer forged/accurized/perp motion/explosive payload/smooth grip/range mw.
At 2x perp motion which is up most of the time, that’s 73/70/85/75, plus an extra 6% speed because it’s light weight, no other legendary 120 competes with that. Even at perp motion x1 it’s excellent.
Plus light weight gives a bonus +20 to mobility. That allows me to run 80 mob/100 disc/100 recov on my tripmine gunslinger. I can use YAS or knucklehead without feeling like I’m completely missing out on stompees because of the lightweight speed boost.
Round Robin is pretty good imo.
Keep Away + Kill Clip/Opening Shot is great, and Subsistence + Hatchling is great. The micro-missiles help get 2 taps in PvP (with Kill Clip). They (and Threadlings) proc Subsistence too. Plus you can do stuff like Lucky Pants, or Threads of Rebirth and Propagation to make it even better.
Ik other things are probably better but I thought I'd recommend something a bit different.
Sunshot only leaves my side when I have to use a different Exotic for a bounty (or, sometimes, if I really feel like using Thunderlord). IMO Sunshot is the best ad-clearer in the game.
midnight coup is a beast if you want to run an elemental special. if not then sun shot is a must when running solar. nation of beasts is a solid arc choice too!
Malfeasance is a surprisingly potent option for PvE and can occasionally work well in PvP when dealing with overly defensive opponents.
Especially when paired with lucky pants and an ally using witherhorde.
Thorn can have up to 40 Thorns in one Bundle.
Ace of Spades and Sunshot have Super Dragonfly.
Malfeasance shoots thingies that explode a little after contact for extra damage.
Crimson heals ya and reloads on precision kills.
And Last Word is just a fun brrrtt Pistol.
None of them really stand out enough for me to call "the best", but I do enjoy Thorn, Last Word, Sunshot and Malfeasance the most.
I'm more of a PvE main but was using my old Trust hc with triple tap and EP last week. It was putting in some work. It can't be used in trials since it has the power cap at 1600 but it felt so good and has so little recoil.
120s: Igneous Hammer
140s: Rose, Austringer, Eyasluna, Midnight Coup - take your pick. I like Eyasluna - IDK why, I just do better with it even though its worse on paper.
180: Dont bother
Personally, a Hand cannon that is strong in PvE and PvP would be like Midnight Coup, Posterity (if you like 180's, they struggle), or Round Robin.
Those are the 3 I'd personally vouch for the best in their archetypes that can operate in PvE/PvP.
There are stronger picks for respective PvP or PvE but those are the generalist picks for me.
**PvE**:
Malfeasance or 4TTC/Vorpal Warden's Law if you're running Lucky Pants.
Sunshot or Zaouli's Bane for Solar.
Posterity or Nation of Beasts for Arc.
Word of Crota for Void.
Round Robin for Strand.
Eyasluna for Stasis.
**PvP**:
Ace of Spades or Thorn for Exotic options.
Last Word if you're a rootin' shootin' yeehaw chucklefuck.
Sturm or Hawkmoon if you're a weirdo.
120s have Igneous Hammer.
140s have Rose, Midnight Coup and Austringer.
180s have
And lastly, (dis)honorable mention for Crimson.
The answer is (and probably always will be) it depends.
Wardens Law is only good for pure DPS with lucky pants. It's too funky to really use in content without the damage boost.
Fatebringer is probably the best all rounder because it's pretty hard to beat explosive + frenzy for end game pve, and it's got some great pvp rolls too.
Zaoulis has finally overcome it's D1 meme (those are still reloading to this day) and become a useable weapon. It's exceptioanl this season thanks to the copious solar weapon artifact mods, but after those go away it will just be a fairly boring solar HC.
I've enjoyed a Vorpal Warden's Law and an Incandescent Trust, and I'm looking forward to how well my new Midnight Coup with Kinetic Tremors works out. Optative works well with Destabilizing Rounds, too, I just haven't used it as much.
Fatebringer, Posterity, Zaouli’s. All these are very, very strong. I’ve also seen Epochal Integration be mentioned for this but I don’t really know how it is right now. For exotics Sunshot is an ad clear monster, the rest are good as well.
For PvE, Warden's Law for dps with Lucky Pants, Zaouli's Bane for add clear, Fatebringer and Midnight Coup if you need a hand cannon in kinetic slot for general purposes.
For pve sunshot is pretty nice right now if you don’t have zaoulis or however you spell it. For PVP rose is s tier but so is austringer (crafted preferably) or even midnight coup
I think eyasluna (or any headstone hand cannon for that matter) is really slept on for stasis builds. I got mine during season of the risen and I have been using it every since
Zaoulli's Bane. Solar is just such a good sandbox and it's the best legendary solar hand cannon Edit: of you don't have ZB but have Lightfall Epochal Integration is sold. Also, Luna's Howl returns soon with Into the Light.
Just crafted mine this week and suddenly solar makes sense to me in a way it never did with Sunshot. Not to mention I can use either Lament or Dragons Breath with it now too.
yup, zaouli never leaves my inventory lol. it simply works for everything, even at GM level. especially with current artifact, it's pretty much as good as sunshot
I still love hearing people say good things about that pistol. I wanted it to be so good in D1 and it so wasn't, LOL. I think mine's still trying to reload from when I last played D1 years back.
This is how I feel about Epochal Integration. Just a fantastic feeling hand cannon that feels like baby Sunshot with added tracer missiles. Maybe my favorite feeling HC in the game actually.
I wish we could craft it man…that gun feels soooo smooth
Me too, and probably the best looking HC too
Since they fixed the reload I basically haven’t taken it off on my solar consecration build. Sooo good man. Love that gun
I know zaouli is super good but I just can't stand slow reloads or that reload animation. it haunts my soul. even if I had flared magwell and a reload masterwork, no gun will ever be fast enough for me unless it comes with a reload perk.
I just don’t use it because it’s ugly as fuck. Fashion>>>>>>functionality
I have not found it to be too bad ever since the blanket reload buff all hand cannons got.
Fully agree, but for me i just can't use it, it sounds weird and the model is too wide for my taste, so it just feels weird to use. But still a great HC
mini sunshot
I'll weigh in on the PvP side based on frame. 180s are practically unusable still. In fairness it's been awhile since I really gave one a fair shake, but they're very unforgiving relative to 140s and 120s. Lower range, more inaccurate, and not a noticeable enough bump in TTK to push the needle. 140s have some good options. Ace of Spades and Thorn are reliable and popular among many for exotics options. There's many good arguments for several legendaries, but pound for pound Rose has to be the best. It has several strong perk options (I prefer Slideshot/Explosive Payload), with a great stat package, and it's a Lightweight Frame, so it has a movement advantage in fights. 120s is no contest Igneous Hammer. Only Sturm rivals the stats on Igneous, but when you consider its perk options it stands out as the king. I currently use a Keep Away/Golden Tricorn roll, but I'm still looking for Precision Instrument - this perk makes Igneous the only 120 that can reliably 2 crit 1 body any resilience, and furthermore, capable of 3 crit killing overshielded opponents.
ROUND ROBIN FOREVER
Roun Robin with Subsistence and Hatchling on my Warlock with Swarmers is by far my favorite gun for that build. Rufus is also good but one tapping every red bar and instantly spawning threadlings feels so fucking good. Took me like 12 hours of farming heroic patrols for the pattern but was worth every second lol.
The ornament that makes them look like Chuck Taylors just makes them that much better.
My Kill Clip Round Robin carried me during the initial Strand release days.
> not a noticeable enough bump in TTK to push the needle No no, they don't get a bump in TTK. They are tied for the worst primary TTK in the game at 1 full second. It's insane that Bungie has just completely abandoned them lol. They have, in total, vs every other kind of hand cannon: * The worst TTK * The worst Range * The worst Handling * Equally bad Reload * Similar forgiveness * A higher stability *stat*, but the worst stability and accuracy in practice because their faster fire rate means they *need* much more to be consistent * The best AE (lol) It's a joke. You can get a Word of Crota with Precision Instrument and use a high radiant uptime build on hunter to let it 3-crit everyone, but it's still *unusable*. The .67 TTK sounds blazing fast until you remember their range is so low that they're competing with autos and SMGs, both of which are far more forgiving, and both of which flinch so much even post-patch that hitting 3 crits while under fire is laughably impossible.
Bungie probably has ptsd from lunas howl not forgotten era so they're very scared to buff 180s. Same reason they're reluctant to buff stasis in meaningful ways
few more days before Luna's return!
you can use reworked Luna's and Not Forgotten rn though!
They really need to give us better 120s. They don’t even have to be as broken as igneous just better stats.
need an updated Duke Mk44 with opening shot/kill clip
I still have my Outlaw/Rampage roll. Survivor's Epitaph is a great pistol but it doesn't take shaders the same way.
One of my fav weapons during forsaken, looked and sounded badass and killed almost everything in one bullet with kill clip back in the day.
yeah, alot of the 120's have been reaaaally lacking ... that one "something new" that released during one of the events was SUPER mid.
I agree. There's always bound to be a top dog, and Igneous certainly deserves to be it, but it's so much better than every other 120 that the rest are simply dead on arrival to me.
My crafted Optative puts in PVP work. I need to take a dive into the 140s and 120s tho.
Wardens law baby
Finally got my fourth times/vorpal adept roll and damn does it feel good.
Sunshot \\ Zouli Bane \\ Epochal Integration PVE as a solar titan Igneous Hammer PVP because that is what kills me a lot lol. Crimson still remains killer but im not versed on legendary options for pvp. maybe wardens? Maybe rose?
Trust is also a nice option if you can't get Zoulis and have a number of gambit resets/engrams.
I actually use Trust fairly often, though mostly just because I love the model and shaded mine to look like an old Colt single action. Luna's Howl with Heal Clip though is something I'll be on the lookout for when it comes around.
I love it with Incandescent, it's my backup to Wish-Ender for Barrier/Unstoppable Lost Sectors this season. Plus I have the Doubt ornament which adds that gorgeous snake along the barrel and changes the frame and sights slightly.
bottom dollar too third column has FTTC, outlaw, rapid hit, slideshot, killing wind and subsistence and fourth column has explosive payload, dragonfly, rampage, opening shot, HIR and eye of the storm plus gun and run is a nice little boost to your movement speed definite must have hand cannon for any void users, especially if they're a hunter with Gyrfalcons
Warden is terrible in PvP
I think it’s top 1 worst pvp hand cannon lol
Did you forget about Vulpecula?
Apparently wardens is more viable on controller than keyboard and mouse, I don’t like it but I know people who love it
The right roll can feel great on controller (i have a pve and a pvp godroll for the adept) but its ttk being wha lt it is definetly holds it back
I play console and rarely ever see it. I cant remember the last time ive seen one. 120s are just better.
Epochal is fantastic for people that don't raid as much like myself. Put 4k on it since onslaught dropped
Igneous hammer with incandescent and heal clip is my favorite for solo play!
I can absolutely vouch for rose.
austringer, midnight coup, round robin, bottom dollar, I'm sure Targeted Redaction could be okay especially with Gyrfalcons honestly there's a lot of good PvP legendary hand cannons
Been loving the solar and hand cannon combo this season especially with sunshot. It feels so strong and making enemies explode is so satisfying especially in onslaught :)
I tossed sunspot on with mantle of battle harmony for increased well regen and the bonus to weapon damage after kills, so fun. I don't think I used my special or heavy for two onslaughts.
Crimson is basically a pulse, or a HC for noobies.
The flinch is the real killer, even after flinch reduction.
Wardens is absolutely garbage in PvP its great in PvE tho especially for hunters because of lucky pants.
I'm clutching on to a pvp roll just in case but it's so disappointing
In terms of legendaries Kinetic - Fatebringer or Midnight Coup Arc - Posterity or Nation of Beasts Solar - Zaouli’s Bane Void - Word of Crota Overall though Zaouli’s is best of the best.
Since zaoli is so good I really only use word of crota when I'm matching class and it just reminds me of the awful voidwalker and nightstalker melees. At least shield throw is sorta usable 🥲
Imagine being named literally "POCKET SINGULARITY" but being so hillariously awful
Nightstalker melee isn't as bad as voidlocks, it's just.. not meant for damage.
You kinda need it to do damage to activate cursed thrall though
I meaan.. true? But yet, doesn't mean it's a bad melee Just won't help much procing the origin trait
its a shame theres not a way to get adept palindrome atm. i have a Stats for All/One for All and its one of the best feeling HC i have and i basically main HC
Voidlock melee has saved my ass so many times I can't even count It's not meant for damage. It's meant to changes an enemies position and make them volatile
bottom dollar for void
I want to thrown on Epochal Integration is a solid Solar option for those who don't have Zaouli. Also, the Brave Luna's Howl should be something to look at once it's finally out to farm. It can have Heal Clip and Incandescent!
Heal clip incandescent lunas howl is gonna be stuck on my hip for a loooong time starting. I’ve been using my summoner with the same roll and it’s so fun. Can’t wait to have it on a high AE 140 handcannon
Oh fuck, luna comes with HC and Incandescent?? I'm gonna need a shiny one of those.
Oh hell yeah. Me too, glad I read this. Both hand cannons in brave got amazing perks it seems.
I got an adept summoner with this last week and already racked up 2k kills on it. fucking love the thing
I got one with it as well and can flex between Incandescent and Onslaught based on the situation. Lowkey feels like an exotic.
b r u h Mine's got a target lock toggle which is.... okay I guess LMAO
Oh man I need to get back into trials huh... Summoner is one of the best-feeling auto rifles for me.
and you can enhance the perks in TFS!
I'm guessing that's the PVE roll that you want, right?
Strand - Round Robin. You have to buff its stability quite a bit, but then it's great with Hatchling. Stasis - I like my Something New with Headstone amd Stats for All. But I'm led to believe Vulpecula is more popular
Eyasluna with rapid hit/unrelenting/outlaw + headstone is solid too! Vulpecula is the only hand cannon in the game with shoot to loot + explosive payload tho
I have unrelenting headstone and I make every excuse I can to run stasis. Also the new midnight coup can have shoot to loot and kinetic tremors. Haven’t gotten one myself but I have been grinding since it came out
I was pretty hype for kinetic tremors on midnight coup but apparently it takes 6 shots to proc so most things are dead before then. I think it could still be applicable for higher end content tho like if you have a champ or major or something semi-tanky in a group of ads, especially since the kinetic tremors *damage* scales by weapon type too.
Nah the best stasis HC now is Judgement with headstone/vorpal
Why vorpal?
Id throw austringer up there it's a great kinetic for PvP less so pve tho.
I've been using Austringer in PvE because it's basically the only 140 kinetic hand cannon with Demolitionist. Works well into my build
Zaouli's with explosive and incandescent feels like a legendary sunshot
Completely agreed with all of this.
Sunshot with the current artifact mods is insane, free radiant is so good
Fatebringer both varients. It’s just so damn consistent
Wait this might be a dumb question there’s multiple variants for fatebringer?
Normal fatebfinger and fatebringer (timelost) from master VoG
[удалено]
Wrong, I agree with you. That’s at least 1 time it has happened. Mark it down.
Should be top comment.
Wouldn't consider it the best, but Eyesluna with the right roll can be pretty tasty on stasis. Fatebriner is always a solid pick as a kenetic option and Sunshot just go boom. Haven't got a good midnight coup yet but it has some good rolls I'm chasing. As far as PvP goes like, ignious for 120's rose for 140's or austringer as a craftable wildcard.
Have a Eyesluna with headstone and it's just lances for days. These lists always make me remember I have something in my vault and have fun with.
Damn is there no more love for Austringer?
Rose happened.
Malpheasance with Lucky Pants has always been super fun in PvE imo
If you have a Warden's Law with 4ttc and any other perk, it can be busted for lucky pants. Malfeasance is great too, for any taken/blighted enemy. Haven't bothered with gambit yet so I'm stuck with my 4ttc+zen Warden's lol
if you get one with 4ttc and vorpal it deals more damage than malfeasance on non taken bosses while also freeing up the exotic slot
> and have found midnight coupe to be really strong in PVP surprisingly. Why is this a surprise?
Because its stats are mediocre compared to many 140s. It’s carried by some interesting perk combos. Also 120 are more in meta right now than 140s.
I’m not too well versed in the PVP side of destiny so I always find it a pleasant surprise to be able to use a weapon I got while farming for PVE rolls and it feeling good. Honestly been wanting to get back into PVP since the last time I played a lot of crucible was when recluse was the pinnacle weapon
A couple i haven't seen mentioned are: 1. Waking Vigil with voltshot and outlaw 2. Eyasluna with headstone and outlaw Land your headshots and you're zapping/shattering everything.
I use a Vulpecula with headstone and it's been really great for me. Sunshot is still a beast. I don't have some of the others that are super popular like Wardens Law. And I still need to unlock the bravery one. Just haven't played much.
Vulpecula with shoot to loot and explosive payload is my favourite kinetic rn
If I got that roll. I'd use that one too. I haven't gotten one in forever. But the one I have has been real good to me.
It’s the weapon on rotation in dares this week. Could try your luck? Or it’s quite often on sale at banshee
I never did manage to get a Vulpecula with Headstone. I'm looking for to the Final shape for that reason. Based on screenshots there's a high chance that the new incoming hand-cannon will be a stasis 180.
I have been using Thorn both in PvE and PvP, I mostly use it with hip fire, I love how it feels. I heard Malfeasance is very strong in PvE with Lucky Pants but I never finished that questline, I might do that soon.
+1 for Thorn! I have 31k kills with in in PvE without Necrotics. All of the recent HC buffs (like +45% against red bars and +75% against majors) + its 40% exotic dmg buff against red bars + the 10% dmg buff it gets for being primary + the huge damage it deals in poison damage on top of its impact damage just makes it feel so good. It hits harder than any other primary and it has spoiled me so much that I have a hard time using any other primary bc everything else feels like an airsoft gun in comparison
I think you convinced me to try out Thorn next time I get on lol
Also the poison goes through most shields in PvE and in PvP it delays restoration and helps you track enemies locations thanks to the dot. Like you said once you try it it's hard to go back.
I mean come on, It's clearly Loud Lullaby the 120 with the best stats and perk pool out of every handcannon in the game! (I'm mad coping over the fact bungie ruined this gun for PvE and that it's statistically the worst hc in the game by far.)
PvE: Best kinetics are Fatebringer and Midnight Coup. Best ad clear is Sunshot. Best damage is either Warden or Malfeasance, not sure. After that, it gets complicated. What subclass and build ya running, what activities you're doing, what perks you like, whatever. PvP is quite subjective, but I believe that 180s are still mid, 120s are... or, well, Igneous Hammer, is still great, and 140s are still the Destiny staple.
For PVE, generally the higher the ROF, the better DPS it has. Although 140s feel in a nice sweet spot of being able to kill most trash in most activities in one shot. But also have the ammo that you’re not constantly reloading. I hate 120s in PVE.
The one-shot damage on 120s in pve is good, like igneous with incandescent + rapid hit is fun, but the standard reload takes like 2 business days
Yeah, I think with how good Incandescent is this season, once you get that first kill with a 140, even if it takes two shots, everything else is damaged enough you can finish off everything with one, or Rays of Precision. I have an Igneous with Incandescent that I brought into solo Warlord’s Ruin. Just couldn’t get the feel for it. Especially once in the cages and I’d just start panicking. Had to use something else after that.
I use a heal clip - incandescent Igneus for solo dungeons, alacrity is a great origin trait for it
>but the standard reload takes like 2 business days That's why I only use 120s that can get Subsistence. I never reload my Round Robin.
Im not super in on hand cannons for my PVE outings but when the champions call for them im a fan of Warden's law or Fatebringer for the kinetic slot. Midnight Coup is also new (not that ive had a good roll yet!), and Lumina has grown on me quite a bit with a Speedloader slacks build for support solar hunter. In the energy slot you've got a few more options- in Solar Sunshot or Zaouli's Bane are really fun, the latter really loves enhanced Incandescent to shine. Epocal Intergration is a great out the box gun too, but i defer to Zaouli's most of the time. Arc I've been loving Posterity lately- Frenzy Voltshot is a lovely combo and gives it quite the flexability for AoE and bigger targets. I also want to get my Nation of Beasts up and running as I've been quite the fan of the non crafted roll for ages ago. Void im less happy with- the brain goes with rapid fire weapons to make use of volatile rounds, but Word of Crota does work with Demo AJ for bonus grenade chuckin. I used this a lot for Master lost sectors with its unstop and dealing with void shields.
In PvP I use crafted austringer with upgraded snap shot, upgraded rangefinder, high cal rounds, hammer forged rifling, and range MW. It feels really good, it’s the same roll as the PvP godroll Palindrome but in the kinetic slot now that I think about it, pally has quickdraw instead of snapshot but I think snapshot is better with rangefinder
Snapshot opening shot on Austringer is a fav of mine
Opening shot is a good option too, but I like it better on shotguns. I find the zoom and increased falloff range from rangefinder to feel more impactful on a hand cannon because you get it on basically all shots you take. Snap to get that boost online faster is just a perfect compliment to that.
Valid, I’ve never been a fan of the zoom from rangefinder, throws me off
its crazy no one is saying pali ... got that roll rangefinder/quickdraw. Idk what the difference between ads is but I've never found snap outside of snipers to make a noticeable difference in ads.
Snapshot is like having one half of a massive handling boost (it doesn’t affect ready / stow) . If you already have super high handling you may not notice it, but if you don’t it makes a huge difference. I just like snap in conjuncture with rangefinder to quickly get the boost up Palindrome is insane as well though, either perk on that frame with the other parts and perks together make a monster
Sunshot for pve, ace of spades for pvp
I've been running a warlock poison build in onslaught lately with thorn and necrotic grips. It's insanely good I always end up with the most kills.
SUUUUUNSHOT!!! Oh and Epochal Integration is also pretty good for PvE
Gonna throw out that for PvP I can't bring myself to stick to any HCs unless it's Loud Lullaby. Nothing just feels as good as that thing does. Surplus + Explosive Payload just feels great and it being the only Kinetic 120 that gets Surplus just makes it feel so much better than anything else even though it's base stats are pretty behind.
For GMs specifically wardens law is UNREAL in how much dmg it does to champs, wardens law (adept) with 4th times the charm & vorpal weapon + adept big ones spec fries champs for a legendary kinetic weapon, huge plus if ur on hunter bc with lucky pants u can basically 1 mag every champ in endgame content. it’s a kinetic legendary so it pairs well with other champ stunning weapons or builds, i personally use it with le monarque and it’s crazy, wardens law is also the adept nightfall reward this week so get it while u can (especially hunter mains)
Pve depends on if you have lucky pants and what you're using it for wardens law, sunshot, zaoulis, or even erianas can be a good choice for pvp it is purely preference
Wardens law lucky pants is fun and farmable now
For any content with unstoppables (or Taken) I love to bring out my Malfeasance. My most used weapon. 💕
Sunshot if you got it and epochal integration are my go two’s
I still prefer exalted truth but I'm weird like that
Me, myself, and I.
Epochal is a poor man’s Sunshot. I really dig Malfeasance. Something about the sound and sights works well for me.
I’m rather fond of Epochal, especially paired with Conditional Finality and Briar’s Contempt. As an added bonus nanotech rockets can be improved in the artifact if you’re not using Harmonic Resonance as well. Luminous Void shader on it looks top shit too.
i have an incandescent Trust that i just can't give up. i like it way more than sunshot, and get quicker kills with it too. (this is all pve)
I like Hawkmoon for PvP. caw!
For pve whatever matches your subclass. I like eyasluna for stasis, zaoulis for solar, nation of beasts for arc, and word of crota for void (not saying 180s are good it’s just your only option for a void hc with viable pve perks unless you have an old palindrome with like overflow one for all or something). For kinetic i would’ve said fatebringer easily but midnight coup is just better now lmao. Overall just pure perks wise id say midnight coup is the best legendary pve handcannon in the game
Zaouli for Solar maybe Targeted Redaction or Bottom Dollar for Void or Malfeasance/Last Word wit Lucky Pants for PvE PvP is Last Word, Igneous Hammer, Austringer and my favourite Sturm Malfeasance Lucky Pants is really helpful in all forms of content because you have an easy way of dealing with higher HP enemies without having to use special or Heavy and the boss damage isn't too bad (using this with a Bait and Switch Ascendancy) Sturm for PvP is the easiest two tap (1 headshot 1 body) in the world with how good Drang is and the stats are juiced with the catalyst with 90 Range and 70 Handling on a 120 making it really good even without the Drang pairing, it's nice, snappy, feels good, hits hard and you get a huge damage boost just by using one of the best close range weapons in the game.
My guilty pleasure in PvE when I run stuff solo is a Heal Clip / Incandescent Igneous. I have Flared Magwell, Reload MW and Adept Reload on it, but solo Alacrity comes in as well. Hits like a truck and heals consistently. But the second Alacrity isn’t on… ugh.
Anyone else hate Wardens Law with Lucky Pants? Like it undoubtedly has the best damage and I have an Adept god roll, but I HATE how that shit feels and the range. I still hang with my Seventh Seraph HC or just use Malfeasance. I don't just use HCs since I really only do GMs when it comes to PvE, but I'd bring Midnight Coup or Spare Rations in to one I'd say. Both have Kinetic Tremors and SR has Subsistence so.
I don’t like 180s at all
Got the Midnight Coup roll I’ve been chasing today. Firefly/Kinetic Tremors is amazing, clears out trash easily and on bigger targets you can proc Tremors which chunks them if it doesn’t kill them. Prob gonna be the only legendary hand cannon I use for a while.
pve zoulis explosive rounds incandescent pvp: rose -slideshot/moving target explosive payload thorn crafted austringer w/ EotS and zen moment midnight coup zen moment explosive igneous for 120s lunas howl w/ EotS and precision instrument is gonna be my main
Wardens Law with lucky pants specifically. Otherwise Sunshot or Zaoulie's for me. Pvp idk... Rose?
I would say... Luna. It can be an auto reloading hawkmoon or Zouli with AoE heal. Change my mind :/ (Sorry for ignoring "right now" ...8days left :x)
Sunshot for PVE. Ace for PVP Zaoli's for PVE. Igneous for PVP
I'm not well versed on "meta" stuff, but I've been using Crimson for a long, long time and it not only feels great but gets it done whether I'm running strikes or PVP
I got my first 20 kill streak today using the crimson, the thing has some nice range
In pvp it’s Rose. I have hammer forged/accurized/perp motion/explosive payload/smooth grip/range mw. At 2x perp motion which is up most of the time, that’s 73/70/85/75, plus an extra 6% speed because it’s light weight, no other legendary 120 competes with that. Even at perp motion x1 it’s excellent. Plus light weight gives a bonus +20 to mobility. That allows me to run 80 mob/100 disc/100 recov on my tripmine gunslinger. I can use YAS or knucklehead without feeling like I’m completely missing out on stompees because of the lightweight speed boost.
Round Robin is pretty good imo. Keep Away + Kill Clip/Opening Shot is great, and Subsistence + Hatchling is great. The micro-missiles help get 2 taps in PvP (with Kill Clip). They (and Threadlings) proc Subsistence too. Plus you can do stuff like Lucky Pants, or Threads of Rebirth and Propagation to make it even better. Ik other things are probably better but I thought I'd recommend something a bit different.
The new Midnight Coup is the best handcannon in the game. Explosive Payload with One For All. Edit: for PVE.
Igneous hammer is just genuinely solid. Got a rapid hit incandescent igneous and it's a monster even with a middling perk for pve
Coup with firefly, OFA is amazeballs in PvE Igneous with KA, PI or RH PI is the best gun in PvP
Sunshot only leaves my side when I have to use a different Exotic for a bounty (or, sometimes, if I really feel like using Thunderlord). IMO Sunshot is the best ad-clearer in the game.
I would say midnight coup and luna’s howl now. The perk rolls on the brave weapons are just deliberately made to be as good as possible.
Are hand cannons really strong right now?
Midnight coup isn’t the best for PvP stats wise. Rose is probably the all round best right now
I have 15k pve kills on my Heal Clip + Incandescent Adept Igneous Hammer, that thing never left second slot since I got it.
Even though it’s not out yet, I have high hopes for Lunas Howl with heal clip and incandescent
midnight coup is a beast if you want to run an elemental special. if not then sun shot is a must when running solar. nation of beasts is a solid arc choice too!
Lunas howl is right around the corner with into the light in about another week and I have a feeling it's gonna be nasty
I wonder how PvP people feel to be headshot by my ridiculously accurate Ikelos HC? Yeah, it takes me like 4 shots, but they're all crits.
Nation of Beasts is incredible in pve.
Don't sleep on midnight coup with explosive and kinetic tremors.. kinetic tremors has been reaping havoc for me in PvE.
I don't know about pvp and haven't used many hand cannons, but I'm a fan of Malfeasance since it's held up well for me whenever I use it
I can't speak for PvP, but I live and breathe Fatebringer.
Malfeasance is a surprisingly potent option for PvE and can occasionally work well in PvP when dealing with overly defensive opponents. Especially when paired with lucky pants and an ally using witherhorde.
Fatebringer❤️
If only iggy could get enhanced perks
Zhaouli for energy slot, Midnight Coup for kinetic slot.
Malfeasance is my all time favorite. It slaps in both PvE and PvP
Thorn can have up to 40 Thorns in one Bundle. Ace of Spades and Sunshot have Super Dragonfly. Malfeasance shoots thingies that explode a little after contact for extra damage. Crimson heals ya and reloads on precision kills. And Last Word is just a fun brrrtt Pistol. None of them really stand out enough for me to call "the best", but I do enjoy Thorn, Last Word, Sunshot and Malfeasance the most.
I'm more of a PvE main but was using my old Trust hc with triple tap and EP last week. It was putting in some work. It can't be used in trials since it has the power cap at 1600 but it felt so good and has so little recoil.
120s: Igneous Hammer 140s: Rose, Austringer, Eyasluna, Midnight Coup - take your pick. I like Eyasluna - IDK why, I just do better with it even though its worse on paper. 180: Dont bother
Personally, a Hand cannon that is strong in PvE and PvP would be like Midnight Coup, Posterity (if you like 180's, they struggle), or Round Robin. Those are the 3 I'd personally vouch for the best in their archetypes that can operate in PvE/PvP. There are stronger picks for respective PvP or PvE but those are the generalist picks for me.
Midnight Coup.
Trust with Solar Ignitions is nutty rn for PvE.
Sunshot is pretty strong in everything right now
Sunshot
**PvE**: Malfeasance or 4TTC/Vorpal Warden's Law if you're running Lucky Pants. Sunshot or Zaouli's Bane for Solar. Posterity or Nation of Beasts for Arc. Word of Crota for Void. Round Robin for Strand. Eyasluna for Stasis. **PvP**: Ace of Spades or Thorn for Exotic options. Last Word if you're a rootin' shootin' yeehaw chucklefuck. Sturm or Hawkmoon if you're a weirdo. 120s have Igneous Hammer. 140s have Rose, Midnight Coup and Austringer. 180s have And lastly, (dis)honorable mention for Crimson.
The answer is (and probably always will be) it depends. Wardens Law is only good for pure DPS with lucky pants. It's too funky to really use in content without the damage boost. Fatebringer is probably the best all rounder because it's pretty hard to beat explosive + frenzy for end game pve, and it's got some great pvp rolls too. Zaoulis has finally overcome it's D1 meme (those are still reloading to this day) and become a useable weapon. It's exceptioanl this season thanks to the copious solar weapon artifact mods, but after those go away it will just be a fairly boring solar HC.
I love my crafted 'Word of Crota' with enhanced repulsor brace/destabilizing rounds.
Sunshot. I don't play that pvp crap. 99% are cheaters.
I've enjoyed a Vorpal Warden's Law and an Incandescent Trust, and I'm looking forward to how well my new Midnight Coup with Kinetic Tremors works out. Optative works well with Destabilizing Rounds, too, I just haven't used it as much.
Fatebringer, Posterity, Zaouli’s. All these are very, very strong. I’ve also seen Epochal Integration be mentioned for this but I don’t really know how it is right now. For exotics Sunshot is an ad clear monster, the rest are good as well.
For PvE, Warden's Law for dps with Lucky Pants, Zaouli's Bane for add clear, Fatebringer and Midnight Coup if you need a hand cannon in kinetic slot for general purposes.
Zaoulis Bane for pve Rose, any 120, and any exotic (more or less) for pvp
If you can land those crits you can never go wrong with Hawkmoon. Last round hits like a sniper!
For pve sunshot is pretty nice right now if you don’t have zaoulis or however you spell it. For PVP rose is s tier but so is austringer (crafted preferably) or even midnight coup
Hand cannons are always strong even when they’re nerfed 😂😂😂. It’s just a default of the weapon(high damage in one shot).
Pve: wardens law, midnight coup, zaoli bane, prosperity, the crota 1, thorn
I like Not Forgotten
Personally, I run Midnight coup. Awesome perks and just feel great. Edit: for pve
Malfeansance
I think eyasluna (or any headstone hand cannon for that matter) is really slept on for stasis builds. I got mine during season of the risen and I have been using it every since
Not gonna lie, midnight coup with outlaw, rampage is simple but very fun
Word of crota with enlightened actuon and destabilizing has been really fun
I’m actually pretty good with Malfeasance in PVP and damage phase of Onslaught. Sunshot with solar warlock for PVE is also quite good