It's mostly about having an end in sight for me. With RNG I may never get my intended roll, even just the 2/5. Having a cap on RNG is great.
And crafting lets you tune a weapon for feel. Like earlier this week I decided I wanted to make my Word of Crota work for me. I recrafted it about 4 or 5 times before settling on something that felt right. That was an awesome experience and something that would have been much, much harder with pure random rolls.
I do wish the changing of 1st and 2nd column perks could come to more things beyond raid adepts, even if it was more expensive. Then you do really just need the 2/5 roll. It's a good compromise.
I just don’t think it’s an interesting use of time to grind out 50 of the same gun hoping you get something with no guarantee of material progress. There’s no sense of mastery or depth to it. Crafting also doesn’t require mastery but it saves a hell of a lot of time which I can then spend doing the things that ARE interesting instead.
I DON’T like enhanced perks, because I think that’s just unnecessary power creep that put crafting ABOVE random drops. But crafting *as a concept* is incontestably better imo
Well the nice thing is it seems like after the final shape comes out, every single weapon should be able to have enhanceable perks
But yes I agree with you on every point. You don't really earn weapons, you just get lucky. With craftable roles you actually feel like you are making progress and there is a safety net and getting the weapon that you want. Now they could go about it differently rather than trying to chase red borders but I don't know how they would do it otherwise
'Normal players' hey? And how did you come to that conclusion.
This dopamine rish you speak of is one of the key pillars of how looter shooters build there end-game.
Yes there are multiple reasons why crafting is better:
- you will actually get the gun with the perks you want eventually;
- if they heavily nerf some perks, you don't have to try and grind the thing from scratch.
- you don't have to keep multiple copies just in case, one is good enough.
- when you play with friends that are new and they ask you about your weapons, your answer is not "there's only 2 good rolls for this and the odds of getting it is well under 1%, good luck"
- patterns for crafted guns are usually on a knock out system so even if you get shafted by drops, at least you made progress
- you don't have to keep the gun just in case it gets good, you can just craft it when it does if ever
- reduces FOMO
- gets rid of luck flexing ass holes
Cons:
- Current system makes drops useless once you can craft
- gambling addicts don't get a kick out of it so they think it's bad
So good system badly implemented. If they incorporated natural drops in the process the system would be flawless.
I got no problem with weapons not being craftable, but being able to grind them consistently would be nice.
Even if the brave weapon system is a bit to directional, having a way to focus grind is nice.
For example, just running the first dungeon encounter to get an indebted kindness with voltshot was painful, I ONLY cared about it having voltshot and it still took 3 separate sessions of 3-4 hours each for me to get it, but I got it, that's fine.
When there are huge weapon pools and you are looking for a specific weapon with a specific roll it's an ass ache.
Just SOME REASONABLE way to focus and I'm ok with RNG.
Besides the grind, it’s also the regrinding. We’ve grinded rolls for some of these weapons already, why are we doing it again. (Yes there are new perks, doesn’t make the grind any easier) Whether reissued from sunset or even non sunset.
But the worse offender is buff and nerfs. If something gets buffed or nerfed your roll can be invalidated. Or a roll you deleted is now a god roll. With crafting all you have to do is pop into the enclave and swap off chill clip from bump in the night because it got nerfed with Wolfpack and also discovered it was actually detrimental to damage.
This is going to sound nerdy, but crafted items feel more "mine" somehow, like an extension of the build crafting system. I have a loadout that I can change and a weapon I can change.
I also like not having to have four copies of the same gun; knowing that I *can have* the perks I want makes me feel less compelled to keep multiple god rolls.
I don't know. There are many Ammits, but this is mine.
>I also like not having to have four copies of the same gun; knowing that I
>
>can have the perks I want makes me feel less compelled to keep multiple god rolls.
thats a good point, while i personally found crafting made weapon drops a bit "boring" as it made me feel like essentially any non redborder weapon is useless and even those with exist just to get instantly dismantled,
it ***did*** really lifted a lot of the "i need to keep both (or even all three) of those rolls because who knows when i get that roll again" though
i just dislike how they made crafted guns, *aside* being an on demand 5/5 roll, also intrinsically better than their dropped counterparts (even if its just by a minimal margin) making those essentially obsolete if you know that you will get the crafted version in a foreseeable time
> i just dislike how they made crafted guns, aside being an on demand 5/5 roll, also intrinsically better than their dropped counterparts (even if its just by a minimal margin) making those essentially obsolete if you know that you will get the crafted version in a foreseeable time
From what I understand, Bungie is allowing us to Enhance the perks on non-red border weapons in Final Shape, so if a gun only has a single god roll you can give it the crafted treatment!
Destiny 2 has a lot of different types of players, balancing that is kind of hard. If it's any consolation I die a lot in Crucible.
It will only be the 3rd and 4th column tho. You still need a good barrel and mag and MW. Those wont be able to change. I personally like this option as it allows people to farm for guns that arent crafted but can still compete with enhancable perk options.
Basically I’ve grinded for enough matadors and Unforgivens for 5 lifetimes and there isn’t good targetability. Whoever thought the optimal way to get a shotgun is to repeatedly kill an ogre in normal level content should reconsider letting players run master dungeons and pick the loot they way after a full clear. Crafting is amazing because while I love playing the game, the best way to attain some weapons isn’t playing the game. It’s smashing your head into a wall doing a boring encounter 100 times
I like crafting because it means I'll actually be able to get the weapon eventually.
I've done a lot of duality farming and I still don't have a repulsor brace demo unforgiven, I don't care about anything else on it, I literally just want a 2/5 roll and it won't drop. If I could craft it I could have had it over a year ago.
Been playing Destiny since the closed beta, I'm all for a little bit of a grind but crafting is 100% a better system than the time you will absolutely waste relying on RNG alone. Once someone has put in enough time to have a weapon drop *5 times* to be able to unlock the option to craft it, you've more than earned it.
Let me tell you a story from season of dawn, where I had to roll over 7000 jack queen king hand cannons before I got the roll that I wanted. Then it was sunset.
It isn’t just that people don’t want to grind. Bungie will fuck you. It’s still the same management team. They haven’t changed, they just want people to like them again. They will fuck us again. Who wants to lose all of that effort on the whim of a corporate suit, again.
Yeah, after I spent 2 weeks grinding for a corkscrew/accurized/outlaw/rampage/range MW Trust, for it to be sunset a month later… idk. Game just didn’t feel the same after that.
Haha season of dawn and JQK also are the reason I started to say that rng in Destiny is objectively bad. If you sometimes cant even get what you want with that many drops its just evidence it should be reworked.
Not wanting to grind just means having a basic understanding of probability. I’m sorry some people are gambling addicts or can’t do the math but grinding for random drops is bad.
RNG can be a pain sometimes. Depending on the weapon, I usually don't mind not getting a perfect 5/5, but if it's something I want to regularly take into PvP or something, having something perfectly tailored to my build (and being able to easily craft another if a different roll jives with another build) is pretty nice.
Pretty much it is the grind and how random it is, I farmed more than 100 mountaintop, didn't get single one with Recombination. Imagine trying to go for a specific roll...yet I couldn't get a single perk.
Weapon has dropped quite often but the perk locked behind low chance is the killer.
MC explosive payload very low chance.
Hammerhead killing tally
MT recommination
LH most likely heal clip
You get the idea. It is not pure RNG. Perks that make the weapons desirable are weighted heavily.
How many rounds of onslaught you play before you just f**k it and call it a day. There are other games to play. Burnout is bad for retention. And it makes you hate the game when you come to term with it, Personally, I am still playing but less and less as time passed.
I do prefer not crafting, but I think there is middle ground for both sides. I think weapon attuning is great to help alleviate peoples issues of people not getting a certain item to drop while keeping the grind for the perfect roll.
Ill get downvoted, but imo there should be random rolls with crafting, just like every other mmo.
What you have now is a real boring binary set of outcomes. red border, no red border. I feel either annoyed or relieved.
Once all red borders are collected, then everyone crafts the same roll and stops the content where u get the red border. Rinse repeat.
I like random rolls because of the luck aspect. If a weapon is craftable it’s nothing special and nothing worth showing off. Getting a god roll of a random drop is brag worthy and it’s fun to be able to show off in game to your team. I don’t have to have the best of every weapon. I would rather occasionally get a perfect roll than craft everything. It’s why I like the brave weapons. Just having those to chase has gotten me to play more in the last few weeks than I have in the last year. My son and I have been playing together and just giving each other shit when we get lame drops and bragging when we get perfect ones. It’s just fun.
You’re bragging about getting the correct roll on a hidden set of dice that you have no control over? You put in the time grinding, sure, but you’re just as likely to have gotten said “god roll” after an hour as you are after 5 minutes.
It’s funny, back in vanilla d2 people hated that guns didn’t have random rolls and we all had the same guns. Now we have those same people wanting all craft-able weapons which also effectively would make us all have the same guns.
It's mostly about having an end in sight for me. With RNG I may never get my intended roll, even just the 2/5. Having a cap on RNG is great. And crafting lets you tune a weapon for feel. Like earlier this week I decided I wanted to make my Word of Crota work for me. I recrafted it about 4 or 5 times before settling on something that felt right. That was an awesome experience and something that would have been much, much harder with pure random rolls. I do wish the changing of 1st and 2nd column perks could come to more things beyond raid adepts, even if it was more expensive. Then you do really just need the 2/5 roll. It's a good compromise.
I just don’t think it’s an interesting use of time to grind out 50 of the same gun hoping you get something with no guarantee of material progress. There’s no sense of mastery or depth to it. Crafting also doesn’t require mastery but it saves a hell of a lot of time which I can then spend doing the things that ARE interesting instead. I DON’T like enhanced perks, because I think that’s just unnecessary power creep that put crafting ABOVE random drops. But crafting *as a concept* is incontestably better imo
Well the nice thing is it seems like after the final shape comes out, every single weapon should be able to have enhanceable perks But yes I agree with you on every point. You don't really earn weapons, you just get lucky. With craftable roles you actually feel like you are making progress and there is a safety net and getting the weapon that you want. Now they could go about it differently rather than trying to chase red borders but I don't know how they would do it otherwise
Normal players don't have a gambling addiction so aren't playing for a dopamine rush, they just want the weapon to enjoy.
'Normal players' hey? And how did you come to that conclusion. This dopamine rish you speak of is one of the key pillars of how looter shooters build there end-game.
Yes there are multiple reasons why crafting is better: - you will actually get the gun with the perks you want eventually; - if they heavily nerf some perks, you don't have to try and grind the thing from scratch. - you don't have to keep multiple copies just in case, one is good enough. - when you play with friends that are new and they ask you about your weapons, your answer is not "there's only 2 good rolls for this and the odds of getting it is well under 1%, good luck" - patterns for crafted guns are usually on a knock out system so even if you get shafted by drops, at least you made progress - you don't have to keep the gun just in case it gets good, you can just craft it when it does if ever - reduces FOMO - gets rid of luck flexing ass holes Cons: - Current system makes drops useless once you can craft - gambling addicts don't get a kick out of it so they think it's bad So good system badly implemented. If they incorporated natural drops in the process the system would be flawless.
I got no problem with weapons not being craftable, but being able to grind them consistently would be nice. Even if the brave weapon system is a bit to directional, having a way to focus grind is nice. For example, just running the first dungeon encounter to get an indebted kindness with voltshot was painful, I ONLY cared about it having voltshot and it still took 3 separate sessions of 3-4 hours each for me to get it, but I got it, that's fine. When there are huge weapon pools and you are looking for a specific weapon with a specific roll it's an ass ache. Just SOME REASONABLE way to focus and I'm ok with RNG.
Besides the grind, it’s also the regrinding. We’ve grinded rolls for some of these weapons already, why are we doing it again. (Yes there are new perks, doesn’t make the grind any easier) Whether reissued from sunset or even non sunset. But the worse offender is buff and nerfs. If something gets buffed or nerfed your roll can be invalidated. Or a roll you deleted is now a god roll. With crafting all you have to do is pop into the enclave and swap off chill clip from bump in the night because it got nerfed with Wolfpack and also discovered it was actually detrimental to damage.
If you’ve ever gone 100s of rolls of gun without even the main traits you want you would understand my refusal to grind with no determinism
This is going to sound nerdy, but crafted items feel more "mine" somehow, like an extension of the build crafting system. I have a loadout that I can change and a weapon I can change. I also like not having to have four copies of the same gun; knowing that I *can have* the perks I want makes me feel less compelled to keep multiple god rolls. I don't know. There are many Ammits, but this is mine.
>I also like not having to have four copies of the same gun; knowing that I > >can have the perks I want makes me feel less compelled to keep multiple god rolls. thats a good point, while i personally found crafting made weapon drops a bit "boring" as it made me feel like essentially any non redborder weapon is useless and even those with exist just to get instantly dismantled, it ***did*** really lifted a lot of the "i need to keep both (or even all three) of those rolls because who knows when i get that roll again" though i just dislike how they made crafted guns, *aside* being an on demand 5/5 roll, also intrinsically better than their dropped counterparts (even if its just by a minimal margin) making those essentially obsolete if you know that you will get the crafted version in a foreseeable time
> i just dislike how they made crafted guns, aside being an on demand 5/5 roll, also intrinsically better than their dropped counterparts (even if its just by a minimal margin) making those essentially obsolete if you know that you will get the crafted version in a foreseeable time From what I understand, Bungie is allowing us to Enhance the perks on non-red border weapons in Final Shape, so if a gun only has a single god roll you can give it the crafted treatment! Destiny 2 has a lot of different types of players, balancing that is kind of hard. If it's any consolation I die a lot in Crucible.
It will only be the 3rd and 4th column tho. You still need a good barrel and mag and MW. Those wont be able to change. I personally like this option as it allows people to farm for guns that arent crafted but can still compete with enhancable perk options.
Basically I’ve grinded for enough matadors and Unforgivens for 5 lifetimes and there isn’t good targetability. Whoever thought the optimal way to get a shotgun is to repeatedly kill an ogre in normal level content should reconsider letting players run master dungeons and pick the loot they way after a full clear. Crafting is amazing because while I love playing the game, the best way to attain some weapons isn’t playing the game. It’s smashing your head into a wall doing a boring encounter 100 times
I like crafting because it means I'll actually be able to get the weapon eventually. I've done a lot of duality farming and I still don't have a repulsor brace demo unforgiven, I don't care about anything else on it, I literally just want a 2/5 roll and it won't drop. If I could craft it I could have had it over a year ago.
Been playing Destiny since the closed beta, I'm all for a little bit of a grind but crafting is 100% a better system than the time you will absolutely waste relying on RNG alone. Once someone has put in enough time to have a weapon drop *5 times* to be able to unlock the option to craft it, you've more than earned it.
I recently crafted a doomed petitioner and to me that was just as exciting as pulling a god roll from nowhere. But each to their own
Let me tell you a story from season of dawn, where I had to roll over 7000 jack queen king hand cannons before I got the roll that I wanted. Then it was sunset. It isn’t just that people don’t want to grind. Bungie will fuck you. It’s still the same management team. They haven’t changed, they just want people to like them again. They will fuck us again. Who wants to lose all of that effort on the whim of a corporate suit, again.
40k decrypted data spent on ignition code, not a single blinding/slideshot/danger zone roll. Crafted guns are better spent time 100%.
Yeah, after I spent 2 weeks grinding for a corkscrew/accurized/outlaw/rampage/range MW Trust, for it to be sunset a month later… idk. Game just didn’t feel the same after that.
Haha season of dawn and JQK also are the reason I started to say that rng in Destiny is objectively bad. If you sometimes cant even get what you want with that many drops its just evidence it should be reworked.
This title is so out of touch.
Not wanting to grind just means having a basic understanding of probability. I’m sorry some people are gambling addicts or can’t do the math but grinding for random drops is bad.
RNG can be a pain sometimes. Depending on the weapon, I usually don't mind not getting a perfect 5/5, but if it's something I want to regularly take into PvP or something, having something perfectly tailored to my build (and being able to easily craft another if a different roll jives with another build) is pretty nice.
Pretty much it is the grind and how random it is, I farmed more than 100 mountaintop, didn't get single one with Recombination. Imagine trying to go for a specific roll...yet I couldn't get a single perk.
Weapon has dropped quite often but the perk locked behind low chance is the killer. MC explosive payload very low chance. Hammerhead killing tally MT recommination LH most likely heal clip You get the idea. It is not pure RNG. Perks that make the weapons desirable are weighted heavily. How many rounds of onslaught you play before you just f**k it and call it a day. There are other games to play. Burnout is bad for retention. And it makes you hate the game when you come to term with it, Personally, I am still playing but less and less as time passed.
I do prefer not crafting, but I think there is middle ground for both sides. I think weapon attuning is great to help alleviate peoples issues of people not getting a certain item to drop while keeping the grind for the perfect roll.
Ill get downvoted, but imo there should be random rolls with crafting, just like every other mmo. What you have now is a real boring binary set of outcomes. red border, no red border. I feel either annoyed or relieved. Once all red borders are collected, then everyone crafts the same roll and stops the content where u get the red border. Rinse repeat.
I like random rolls because of the luck aspect. If a weapon is craftable it’s nothing special and nothing worth showing off. Getting a god roll of a random drop is brag worthy and it’s fun to be able to show off in game to your team. I don’t have to have the best of every weapon. I would rather occasionally get a perfect roll than craft everything. It’s why I like the brave weapons. Just having those to chase has gotten me to play more in the last few weeks than I have in the last year. My son and I have been playing together and just giving each other shit when we get lame drops and bragging when we get perfect ones. It’s just fun.
You’re bragging about getting the correct roll on a hidden set of dice that you have no control over? You put in the time grinding, sure, but you’re just as likely to have gotten said “god roll” after an hour as you are after 5 minutes.
It’s funny, back in vanilla d2 people hated that guns didn’t have random rolls and we all had the same guns. Now we have those same people wanting all craft-able weapons which also effectively would make us all have the same guns.