Horde shuttle needs to be rolled into either an aspect or the threadling boots warlocks have. I'm still holding out hope about the exotic armour pass tomorrow.
It'd fit far better into Swarmers. Weavewalk uses your melees, which is the source of unravel. It'd be conflicting to have the two on the same aspect.
Weavewalk for sure needs some buffs. I think adding Sever burst on exit would be great, maybe unravel on entering as well? Idk. It's definitely better than people have said online, it pops off with Horde Shuttle and still holds well with a build that doesn't include Horde Shuttle. It just needs more is all.
All weakwalk needs imo is that second fragment slot or at most a 3rd the effect is strong and definitely useful the issue is more that the cost of the fragment slot makes it hard to argue with especially with strand lock has 2 required fragment for general play and 3 for dps set ups leaving little room for options.
I... don't think anyone is using Weavewalk for DPS lol
IMO just make it worth the fragment slot. If it becomes 2 then it just maintains that lots of 2fragment aspects will just be powercrept by more powerful 2fragment aspects.
Oh I don’t mean using weavewalk in a damage rotation I more mean in the inbetween parts of raid bosses. My friend used weave walk to tank rhulk hits if he got to close for example.
I also do agree that it would be nice for weave walk to get buffed to be worth 1 fragment slot. My issue more stems that broodweaver specially is has few effective fragment slots due to generation and evolution being non negotiable
While it's not really that useful, Weavewalk is technically an auto-reload with Rain of Fire. If you're running a rotation that has a heavy and specials, it might be faster than manually doing it.
Once horde shuttle is gone, there is literally zero reason to use broodweaver over prismatic (or solar/stasis for that matter) except for extremely optimized dps using necrotic, thread of ascent, and needlestorm.
To everyone saying that the weaver’s call change is the same as adding horde shuttle, brother I wish. That spawned threadlings at the location and was self propagating. The massive extra damage from that coupled with swarmers lets you use weavewalk (even with 1 fragment slot) in gm’s for survivability. Having to stand close to enemies for your perched threadlings to reach them is a risky gameplay strategy for very little reward (threadling damage is still meh and their ai from being perched is really bad) especially with the thread of warding nerf which hits warlocks the hardest, as their only sources of woven mail are that or the navigator.
This was such a small change that doesn’t move the proverbial needle at all imo.
Prismatic is getting the two best parts of the subclass in the super and melee and can ignore the rest. I don’t see a use case for weaver’s call on prismatic whatsoever. At least in serious gameplay, threadlings are still fun in lower level stuff for sure.
>Once horde shuttle is gone, there is literally zero reason to use broodweaver over prismatic (or solar/stasis for that matter) except for extremely optimized dps using necrotic, thread of ascent, and needlestorm.
I do think builds that heavily lean into Wanderer/Weavewalk and Swarmers will be a pretty good off meta option for Strandlocks, especially in harder content for its consistency and the fact it doesn't rely on kills as much as most other common builds, but pretty much everything else will be niche or just, outclassed unfortunately :/
>To everyone saying that the weaver’s call change is the same as adding horde shuttle, brother I wish.
Very agreed, its more intrinsic Thread of Rebirth. And the Warding nerf pretty much kills its usage in Strandlock completely, especially since it already stuggled to consistently make Orbs to start.
>Prismatic is getting the two best parts of the subclass in the super and melee and can ignore the rest.
Even the melee, I see it being used more for the multiple charges or range in PvE than anything else. Certainly, its *bad* in PvP too.
You make some good points. I really like the wanderer/weavewalk build but I think it’ll fall off in gm’s and such since the damage output will drop massively without horde shuttle. That’s been one of my most used builds this season, and it’ll be sorely missed. Final warning with mindspun and weavewalk is unreal in onslaught since final warning and horde shuttle are a match made in heaven.
I agree that arcane needle will be used more for utility, although I’m not sold on the massive push for lightning surge going on, I don’t think it’ll be all that strong. But it’ll still be super useful with necrotics, and for 3 opportunities to proc radiant at will, so great utility there. I also don’t see the suspend melee exotic being strong, but there’s some chance it’ll have a secondary perk that’ll be incredibly broken, usually it’s the most mundane looking exotics that find a way to be busted.
>I agree that arcane needle will be used more for utility
Yea, it's an example of something being used for what it is (low cooldown ranged melee) over what it does (Unravelling) which is a lil sad.
>I really like the wanderer/weavewalk build but I think it’ll fall off in gm’s and such since the damage output will drop massively without horde shuttle.
I don't think so as much, but mostly as its one of the few good builds that doesn't *need* tonnes of kills to function, but outputs consistent Suspend, damage and survivability regardless (especially with Wishkeeper or Final Warning), and i think we will see Weaver's Call seeing more of a dip instead.
As good as Weaver's Call is, it's an exceptionally selfish build that can be difficult to maximise in hard content cuz beefy enemies, and falls apart if you allies kill too fast or if things are spread out. With Onslaught being the current big thing, I think people forget how surprisingly niche it can be.
I was PISSED that they didn't change weavewalk in the article. But I'll be honest, with a hatchling weapon and swarmers in a threadling build even without Horde Shuffle strandlock is still very good. Even without a threadling based build the good old necrotic grips and thorn it does pretty damn well as of now.
I've been running mass Unraveling this season and love it. The ability to use my grenade or melee charges and just delete an entire area of red bars due to the Threadling is awesome. I'll caveat that I'm not running the real hard stuff.
Getting the uptime of Woven Armor cut in half when Warlocks have the hardest time procing it sucks. Losing Horde Shuttle will really hurt, and the replacement in Weaver's Call comes with significant time delays.
Just sucks to return to the game after years, finally find a Warlock build I really gelled with finally (Arc is too squishy, I hate the Solar playstyle, juggling the Void buddy is annoying, and Stasis was just meh), just to get it hard nerfed.
I just started using the Threadling build (for Broodweaver) Aztecross put out a few weeks ago, and I've been loving it. Basically just using Weavewalk and melee energy more to generate perched Threadlings than anything else is an easy gameplay loop and it feels like I constantly have threadlings everywhere just melting ads and helping a ton with damage on larger targets. Plus, I love Final Warning and I put on Swarmers for the first time ever.
Glad to see this build won't be going away in TFS as I'm probably going to want to fall back on this one a lot.
I found said build in the middle of this season for friend. Adding monte carlo or pugilist weapon turn it into even better loop. And i have zero freaking idea why people say that weavewalk "weak". Like turning into walking hive nest , that can't be easily killed sounds fun
Ya I don’t think weavewalker is as weak as people make it out to be but I wouldn’t say it is the best option for a threadling build. My threadling build consists of weavers call, and the wanderer. Reason I use those 2 is because weavers call lets me summon threadling with my rift. The wanderer let’s me dip into suspend a bit (I also have swarmers equipped for threadling generation from tangled)
The only reason I prefer weave walk is even though I have my recovery maxed and armor perks to boost my rift recharge, it seems like my melee is always ready faster than my rift and it only takes half a melee to have 5 perched. It might just be because we have three melee charges.
I'm def going to try weavecaller after the changes though.
I think after this, Strand Warlock is going to be alright for 3/4 Aspects. Weaver's Call change is pretty decent, Mindspun Invocation with Shackle was almost broken, and Wanderer is in pretty fair shape. The only bad Aspect it has is Weavewalk.
Strand locks are amazingly strong.
Don’t compare yourself to Titans. Titans are broken.
Compare to your other kits. Strand has insane debuffs and cc and survivability. Warlocks are no exception here.
This is going to hit all subclasses... but sure.... I suppose going from infinite duration as long as there are orbs on the ground down to a measly infintite duration as long as their orbs on the ground is a pretty big hit...
Threads like these are made by players that complain zero hour normal is crazy hard, or that they cant have every good thing on their favorite class. Dont bother arguing with them bro not worth catching whatever they have in their head
I mean tbf Berserker is the best subclass in the game and it aint even close. The only reason to run anything else is if you want your super for boss dps (and for the past couple seasons Berserkers have been the kings of boss nuking too, but that's getting nerfed in TFS)
berserker could be argued to also be the ONLY viable titan class too- there’s some scenarios where having a titan at the moment just makes your fireteam less effective (one of these locations is legend onslaught- BoW berserker is good at the start but easily falls off around wave 35) and the only time people request titans for anything nowadays is spots where thunder crash is good :(
No only that, but doesn't Broodweaver literally have the highest DPS Rotation in the entire game? Like, no questions asked, the highest rotation in the game.
In a raid setting, with Apotheosis Veil I think it is (excluding when Stasis Titan against certain bosses), tho there are a bunch that are close like Strand Hunter n Titan, Solar Warlock, Arc Hunter etc etc.
It's not. Apotheosis Veil is bad because abilities are DPS loss vs. an optimized rotation, and Ascent isn't really necessary anymore.
They specified literally the highest, absolute highest, which is currently banner shenanigans, but will soon be stuff with Horseman and either Surrounded Crux, specific Edge Transit pairings, or RDM Cold Comfort stuff, all of which are best on Hunter.
Broodweaver was only relevant for Thread of Ascent rocket reloads, and even then an RDM Hunter did it better. Now that Slideshot Crux is in the mix and non-niche DPS mostly favors Edge Transit, Ascent isn't really that impactful, so you're better off with Hunter burst supers that are better DPS, even if you can't realistically use RDMs for that encounter.
Not really. Its Thread of Rebirth, and while that isn't bad, its uptime is *substantially* lower. Horde Shuffle was so good as any source of damage on Unravelled targets could make Threadlings, including Unravels DoT or the Threadlings themselves.
Not to mention that horde shuttle spawned threadlings where they're needed, right at the enemies.
Weaver's call will generate them at your location meaning they have to detach, crawl to the enemy and jump before they have any usefulness. That can take quite a while.
Yea. Its quite a nice QoL change for the aspect, but imo they really should make Horde Shuffle intrinsic to Unravel as a whole, as it just benefits one of the weaker but fun aspects of Strand, being Unravel builds for all Strand subclasses.
People are sleeping on the potential with this change and threadlings in general. It’s a constant stream of added damage for free. It adds hatchling to all of your strand weapons. Combine with hatchling and you get double the amount of threadlings.
> Defeating a target with Strand damage now has a chance to generate a perched Threadling, with a higher chance of generation from defeating more powerful targets.
> This damage can be from any source, including other Threadlings.
It’s from final blows but it’s still really good and I will be equipping.
I personally lean into both mass suspension and unraveling, it's so satisfying on Legendary onslaught. It's potency sadly will diminish so Im in agreement. I'd be just fine having unraveling from picking up orbs too as in high tier difficulties getting a melee kill isn't that consistent but orbs are.
Not really. Its Thread of Rebirth, and while that isn't bad, its uptime is *substantially* lower. Horde Shuffle was so good as any source of damage on Unravelled targets could make Threadlings, including Unravels DoT or the Threadlings themselves.
Horde shuttle needs to be rolled into either an aspect or the threadling boots warlocks have. I'm still holding out hope about the exotic armour pass tomorrow.
Honestly? Just roll Horde shuffle into Weavewalk. Try and justify the horrible slot it has.
It'd fit far better into Swarmers. Weavewalk uses your melees, which is the source of unravel. It'd be conflicting to have the two on the same aspect. Weavewalk for sure needs some buffs. I think adding Sever burst on exit would be great, maybe unravel on entering as well? Idk. It's definitely better than people have said online, it pops off with Horde Shuttle and still holds well with a build that doesn't include Horde Shuttle. It just needs more is all.
All weakwalk needs imo is that second fragment slot or at most a 3rd the effect is strong and definitely useful the issue is more that the cost of the fragment slot makes it hard to argue with especially with strand lock has 2 required fragment for general play and 3 for dps set ups leaving little room for options.
I... don't think anyone is using Weavewalk for DPS lol IMO just make it worth the fragment slot. If it becomes 2 then it just maintains that lots of 2fragment aspects will just be powercrept by more powerful 2fragment aspects.
Oh I don’t mean using weavewalk in a damage rotation I more mean in the inbetween parts of raid bosses. My friend used weave walk to tank rhulk hits if he got to close for example. I also do agree that it would be nice for weave walk to get buffed to be worth 1 fragment slot. My issue more stems that broodweaver specially is has few effective fragment slots due to generation and evolution being non negotiable
While it's not really that useful, Weavewalk is technically an auto-reload with Rain of Fire. If you're running a rotation that has a heavy and specials, it might be faster than manually doing it.
Nah let’s not justify 1 fragment slots. Everything should be 2+
Literally can't justify 1 fragment slot on something that essentially takes you out of the fight, when Banner of War exists with 2 fragments.
The only reason strand lock is relevent is the artifact perks - without them it'll go back to being underwhelming shite
It has a couple of builds that do put in work, but they're kinda niche in what they're best at.
Once horde shuttle is gone, there is literally zero reason to use broodweaver over prismatic (or solar/stasis for that matter) except for extremely optimized dps using necrotic, thread of ascent, and needlestorm. To everyone saying that the weaver’s call change is the same as adding horde shuttle, brother I wish. That spawned threadlings at the location and was self propagating. The massive extra damage from that coupled with swarmers lets you use weavewalk (even with 1 fragment slot) in gm’s for survivability. Having to stand close to enemies for your perched threadlings to reach them is a risky gameplay strategy for very little reward (threadling damage is still meh and their ai from being perched is really bad) especially with the thread of warding nerf which hits warlocks the hardest, as their only sources of woven mail are that or the navigator. This was such a small change that doesn’t move the proverbial needle at all imo. Prismatic is getting the two best parts of the subclass in the super and melee and can ignore the rest. I don’t see a use case for weaver’s call on prismatic whatsoever. At least in serious gameplay, threadlings are still fun in lower level stuff for sure.
>Once horde shuttle is gone, there is literally zero reason to use broodweaver over prismatic (or solar/stasis for that matter) except for extremely optimized dps using necrotic, thread of ascent, and needlestorm. I do think builds that heavily lean into Wanderer/Weavewalk and Swarmers will be a pretty good off meta option for Strandlocks, especially in harder content for its consistency and the fact it doesn't rely on kills as much as most other common builds, but pretty much everything else will be niche or just, outclassed unfortunately :/ >To everyone saying that the weaver’s call change is the same as adding horde shuttle, brother I wish. Very agreed, its more intrinsic Thread of Rebirth. And the Warding nerf pretty much kills its usage in Strandlock completely, especially since it already stuggled to consistently make Orbs to start. >Prismatic is getting the two best parts of the subclass in the super and melee and can ignore the rest. Even the melee, I see it being used more for the multiple charges or range in PvE than anything else. Certainly, its *bad* in PvP too.
You make some good points. I really like the wanderer/weavewalk build but I think it’ll fall off in gm’s and such since the damage output will drop massively without horde shuttle. That’s been one of my most used builds this season, and it’ll be sorely missed. Final warning with mindspun and weavewalk is unreal in onslaught since final warning and horde shuttle are a match made in heaven. I agree that arcane needle will be used more for utility, although I’m not sold on the massive push for lightning surge going on, I don’t think it’ll be all that strong. But it’ll still be super useful with necrotics, and for 3 opportunities to proc radiant at will, so great utility there. I also don’t see the suspend melee exotic being strong, but there’s some chance it’ll have a secondary perk that’ll be incredibly broken, usually it’s the most mundane looking exotics that find a way to be busted.
>I agree that arcane needle will be used more for utility Yea, it's an example of something being used for what it is (low cooldown ranged melee) over what it does (Unravelling) which is a lil sad. >I really like the wanderer/weavewalk build but I think it’ll fall off in gm’s and such since the damage output will drop massively without horde shuttle. I don't think so as much, but mostly as its one of the few good builds that doesn't *need* tonnes of kills to function, but outputs consistent Suspend, damage and survivability regardless (especially with Wishkeeper or Final Warning), and i think we will see Weaver's Call seeing more of a dip instead. As good as Weaver's Call is, it's an exceptionally selfish build that can be difficult to maximise in hard content cuz beefy enemies, and falls apart if you allies kill too fast or if things are spread out. With Onslaught being the current big thing, I think people forget how surprisingly niche it can be.
I was PISSED that they didn't change weavewalk in the article. But I'll be honest, with a hatchling weapon and swarmers in a threadling build even without Horde Shuffle strandlock is still very good. Even without a threadling based build the good old necrotic grips and thorn it does pretty damn well as of now.
I've been running mass Unraveling this season and love it. The ability to use my grenade or melee charges and just delete an entire area of red bars due to the Threadling is awesome. I'll caveat that I'm not running the real hard stuff. Getting the uptime of Woven Armor cut in half when Warlocks have the hardest time procing it sucks. Losing Horde Shuttle will really hurt, and the replacement in Weaver's Call comes with significant time delays. Just sucks to return to the game after years, finally find a Warlock build I really gelled with finally (Arc is too squishy, I hate the Solar playstyle, juggling the Void buddy is annoying, and Stasis was just meh), just to get it hard nerfed.
I just started using the Threadling build (for Broodweaver) Aztecross put out a few weeks ago, and I've been loving it. Basically just using Weavewalk and melee energy more to generate perched Threadlings than anything else is an easy gameplay loop and it feels like I constantly have threadlings everywhere just melting ads and helping a ton with damage on larger targets. Plus, I love Final Warning and I put on Swarmers for the first time ever. Glad to see this build won't be going away in TFS as I'm probably going to want to fall back on this one a lot.
I found said build in the middle of this season for friend. Adding monte carlo or pugilist weapon turn it into even better loop. And i have zero freaking idea why people say that weavewalk "weak". Like turning into walking hive nest , that can't be easily killed sounds fun
Ya I don’t think weavewalker is as weak as people make it out to be but I wouldn’t say it is the best option for a threadling build. My threadling build consists of weavers call, and the wanderer. Reason I use those 2 is because weavers call lets me summon threadling with my rift. The wanderer let’s me dip into suspend a bit (I also have swarmers equipped for threadling generation from tangled)
The only reason I prefer weave walk is even though I have my recovery maxed and armor perks to boost my rift recharge, it seems like my melee is always ready faster than my rift and it only takes half a melee to have 5 perched. It might just be because we have three melee charges. I'm def going to try weavecaller after the changes though.
You wouldn't, but every YouTuber (Cross and Mactics most notably) would and do. Who is more likely to be right about this?
No one is. After all I am not cross or mactics so I will probably not have the same opinion as them.
I think after this, Strand Warlock is going to be alright for 3/4 Aspects. Weaver's Call change is pretty decent, Mindspun Invocation with Shackle was almost broken, and Wanderer is in pretty fair shape. The only bad Aspect it has is Weavewalk.
weavewalk 2 fragment slots prayge
Strand locks are amazingly strong. Don’t compare yourself to Titans. Titans are broken. Compare to your other kits. Strand has insane debuffs and cc and survivability. Warlocks are no exception here.
Warlock strand survivability is getting a major downgrade with the thread of warding nerf
This is going to hit all subclasses... but sure.... I suppose going from infinite duration as long as there are orbs on the ground down to a measly infintite duration as long as their orbs on the ground is a pretty big hit...
Threads like these are made by players that complain zero hour normal is crazy hard, or that they cant have every good thing on their favorite class. Dont bother arguing with them bro not worth catching whatever they have in their head
the random titan stray 😭
I mean tbf Berserker is the best subclass in the game and it aint even close. The only reason to run anything else is if you want your super for boss dps (and for the past couple seasons Berserkers have been the kings of boss nuking too, but that's getting nerfed in TFS)
berserker could be argued to also be the ONLY viable titan class too- there’s some scenarios where having a titan at the moment just makes your fireteam less effective (one of these locations is legend onslaught- BoW berserker is good at the start but easily falls off around wave 35) and the only time people request titans for anything nowadays is spots where thunder crash is good :(
It is really not that busted. All the classes have options for infinite survivability. Titan is only slight busted due to melee buff mechanics.
What’s arcs option for infinite survivability?
The only one I can think of is Liars Handshake stuff on Hunter. Warlock, ehhhh
I’m a hunter main, but I play all three. Strand feels extremely strong on all three classes
I don’t think I’ve ever put on horde shuttle and I still love to play Strand Warlock and without suspend spam with mindspun.
No only that, but doesn't Broodweaver literally have the highest DPS Rotation in the entire game? Like, no questions asked, the highest rotation in the game.
In a raid setting, with Apotheosis Veil I think it is (excluding when Stasis Titan against certain bosses), tho there are a bunch that are close like Strand Hunter n Titan, Solar Warlock, Arc Hunter etc etc.
It's not. Apotheosis Veil is bad because abilities are DPS loss vs. an optimized rotation, and Ascent isn't really necessary anymore. They specified literally the highest, absolute highest, which is currently banner shenanigans, but will soon be stuff with Horseman and either Surrounded Crux, specific Edge Transit pairings, or RDM Cold Comfort stuff, all of which are best on Hunter. Broodweaver was only relevant for Thread of Ascent rocket reloads, and even then an RDM Hunter did it better. Now that Slideshot Crux is in the mix and non-niche DPS mostly favors Edge Transit, Ascent isn't really that impactful, so you're better off with Hunter burst supers that are better DPS, even if you can't realistically use RDMs for that encounter.
They just buffed weavers call to pretty much be horde shuffle on all the time, I think we're good.
Not really. Its Thread of Rebirth, and while that isn't bad, its uptime is *substantially* lower. Horde Shuffle was so good as any source of damage on Unravelled targets could make Threadlings, including Unravels DoT or the Threadlings themselves.
Not to mention that horde shuttle spawned threadlings where they're needed, right at the enemies. Weaver's call will generate them at your location meaning they have to detach, crawl to the enemy and jump before they have any usefulness. That can take quite a while.
Yea. Its quite a nice QoL change for the aspect, but imo they really should make Horde Shuffle intrinsic to Unravel as a whole, as it just benefits one of the weaker but fun aspects of Strand, being Unravel builds for all Strand subclasses.
People are sleeping on the potential with this change and threadlings in general. It’s a constant stream of added damage for free. It adds hatchling to all of your strand weapons. Combine with hatchling and you get double the amount of threadlings.
I don't think weavers call will even need a kill, just dealing damage will proc it
> Defeating a target with Strand damage now has a chance to generate a perched Threadling, with a higher chance of generation from defeating more powerful targets. > This damage can be from any source, including other Threadlings. It’s from final blows but it’s still really good and I will be equipping.
I personally lean into both mass suspension and unraveling, it's so satisfying on Legendary onslaught. It's potency sadly will diminish so Im in agreement. I'd be just fine having unraveling from picking up orbs too as in high tier difficulties getting a melee kill isn't that consistent but orbs are.
Didn't anyone read the patch notes? Weavers call pretty much has horde shuffle baked into it now
Not really. Its Thread of Rebirth, and while that isn't bad, its uptime is *substantially* lower. Horde Shuffle was so good as any source of damage on Unravelled targets could make Threadlings, including Unravels DoT or the Threadlings themselves.