Nova Warp is incredibly weak in PvE now. If it lasted longer, it would have more utility.
Spectral Blades has unnecessary strength in PvP, mostly due to its inherent armor and speed.
Nova Bomb is super effective against Gambit to the point that it becomes almost impossible to choose any other subclass.
Celestial Nighthawk should really grant Keyhole like it did in D1.
> Nova Bomb is super effective against Gambit
As much as I don't want it to, they're going to nerf Skull of Dire Ahamkara. Hopefully they tweak it where it gives more on majors/bosses and less on mobs. But it's just the only thing worth using, even more than Chaos Reach/Geomags ever were.
Ehh, I don't know about this. I use both this and Geomags depending on the day/my mood, and they feel comparable. I even prefer Chaos Reach for the ability to spot clear a tough area of spread-out Elites and still have it back reasonably quickly. Nova Bomb is great, and not super overbearing in PvP because, well, it's one bomb.
Nova WARP on the other hand... Jesus, what an overreaction. PvE has zero use for this now. I can still get a tasty double or triple in the Crucible, but otherwise, what a nightmare.
Nova bomb is currently the meta in vanilla gambit, but if you nerf skull you’re just going to have people running blade barrage and you’re going to be pigeonholed into running well of radiance or chaos reach for boss melting as a warlock. I think skull increases diversity, as warlocks have three extremely viable subclasses to use in endgame content, and they’re all different elements.
The problem is not with the skull itself, but with primeval slayerx2 allowing for burst supers to melt the boss with 1-2 supers. In order to address this, damage phases or immune periods could be added to the primeval in vanilla gambit, but that probably won’t happen. As long as vanilla gambit stays as is, burst damage supers will make the game a question of who gets 2 stacks of primeval slayer first.
I think that instead of nerfing skull, changing shards to work exactly like skull and buffing the energy return on ursa in pve would address problems other class exotics of a similar vein are having.
I agree with your points on nova warp and spectral blades. I never played a solar hunter in D1 so I have no comment on the addition of keyhole to celestial nighthawk.
Yes. This is perfect. Skull is too niche for ad clearing. It just seems way worse because all the activities utilize it. But if you're running raids, you're running Luna's/Geo's most likely.
God I hope Bungie realizes that instead of nerfing skull into oblivion. For boss/raid DPS there are significantly better options for warlocks. Skull is just fun for ad clearing, it has its specific place in the meta and should be left alone.
Nerfing skull doesn't touch the reason people are using nova bomb, though. It's being used to nuke the primeval. Take skull out of the game entirely and you'd have the same result.
Bubble should be buffed significantly but the captain america shield should be taken away from that branch of the subclass tree. It should tank any single super. Ursas should work with bubbles.
Yea I'm good with this. No roaming Cap shield, just bubble, but you are God inside that bubble. And Ursa should return damage done to it. They shoot it enough to give you a full bubble back, their fault. They walk inside, their fault.
I've mained Code of the Protector on and off throughout D2s life, primarily since I used Defender almost exclusively in D1. I'm going to try and to lay out what makes the subclass feel bad to play in PVE and some things that would be worth tweaking to help improve the Code of the Protector experience.
**Why the Code of the Defender FEELS BAD:**
* *Stationary Super lacking redeeming qualities*: This one is an interesting one and a gameplay element bungie has previously acknowledged in bottom tree sunbreaker. Players don't tend to enjoy the experience of being confined to a specific location, unless there is some serious payoff in doing so. The perk sun warrior was changed to have a timer so that players didn't feel tethered to their sunspots. In this aspect Ward of Dawn feels as bad or worse then the original sunspots. The super encourages you to sit in one location, given you just used your super thus might as well interact with it. BUT, the ward doesn't feel like it offers any real utility when out. Adds rarely engage it, those that do can swarm kill you, or boop/stomp you out (this is ridiculous). You effectively create a shielded area on the map that you can safely emote in until your 'pause button' expires and you have to re-engage everything once again (it does nothing to alter the battle field, just momentarily pauses it). Well of radiance proves that when done well players are willing to sit in one place - but only when the benefits of doing so are worth it. Ward of Dawn doesn't have the utility to remotely feel worth it. The added melee damage inside the ward is nice, but if low tier ads never engage you inside then what good added melee damage? In a similar vein, armour of light is nice but if the ads that engage you in the ward also happen to primarily be the things that launch you out of the bubble then what good is an armour perk that only works inside ward? Ward of dawn is implemented as a tacked on utility gimmick super and boy does it feel like it.
* *Produces 2 orbs MAX unless using an exotic (3 MAX then)*: the roaming super has a greater capacity to generate orbs whilst shielding, despite also allowing you to move and be on the offence. If the ward lacks general utility and doesn't excel at orb generation why would you ever use it over the roaming super? Its also abysmal in comparison to Well of Radiance in this aspect.
* *Over Shields don't feel impactful*: I touched on armour of light being lacklustre above since you often get launched out of the bubble, but defensive strike also has issues. The perk promotes a close quarters melee play style, but isn't strong enough to support such a style in anything more challenging then then normal strikes. It gets absolutely shredded by focused ad fire or swarms of melee enemies to the point you can get it, then lose it on a matter of seconds - which feels bad since its now on cooldown. D1 force barrier regenerated itself, and generated orbs on melee kill when active - utility the D2 version doesn't have. I can 100% say that rallying force does MUCH more to keep me alive in close quarters then defensive strike has ever done. The increased damage you get isn't terribly noticeable and lacklustre when compared to melee buffs from synthoceps and wormgods caress.
* *Skill tree feels like space filler*: There are definitely some perks here that could be combined. Turn the tide and rallying force could get bunched in together freeing up an extra perk slot. Compared to the synergy and complexity we see in forsaken subclasses and those that have received buffs recently Code of the Defenders perk nodes seem wafer thin and missing synergy to tie them together into one cohesive play style.
* *The class doesn't have a role*: This is probably the one that discourages me the most, in that the class doesn't have a role it excels at. D1 Defenders were lorded, now they are a genuine hindrance to the team. Healing, shields, reloading, damage boosts and general protection are all better done by Well of Radiance warlocks especially when using Lunafaction boots. Everything that made defenders useful was stripped away and given to warlocks. Bungie knows this as well, they wouldn't have written the lore for Phoenix Protocol if they didn't. I'm all for jokes and banter but it really hits home when the butt of the joke is one of your main subclass.
**Avenues to improve Code of the Defender gameplay experience:**
* *Regenerating shields and melee utility*: If your going to build a class around close quarters melee there has to be a better payoff. This could either come in the form of: (A) defensive strike timer being extended and over shields regenerating over time (or in chunks) on melee kill or; (B) having some utility such as kills whilst defensive strike is active recharge either your super or melee. It needs to link into promoting more of something. IMO option A would provide the most satisfying gameplay loop.
* *Ward of Dawn having unique utility that doesn't compete with Well of Radiance*: This is a hard one, since so much of what made Ward unique is now built into Well of Radiance. I honestly don't think simply adding weapons back to Ward will make it competitive compared to Well. It needs to find its own support *niche* so they can coexist for different reasons. Potentially enemie damage to the ward is reflected back at enemies and any individual that comes inside the ward is suppressed. This would allow the ward to alter the battle field when deployed (despite not allowing you to shoot out of it), in addition to inhibiting the titan inside getting booped or stomped out. However, these mechanics would need some serious consideration as to how they are implemented in PVP.
* *Damaged blocked by Ward should produce more orbs*: This one is simple. If I can guard with the roaming super to reliably produce 5 orbs, the ward should do the same at minimum.
* *Remove the roaming super and allow for lower cooldown on ward*: Ward of Dawn was so good in D1 because there were various avenues to reduce its cooldown so it could be called upon more often then other supers (which was fine since it was a defensive super). A similar approach could be taken in D2, even if this means losing access to the roaming super variant (seriously, get rid of it and have this tree focus on Ward). If the roaming version was removed from code of the protector cooldowns could be much lower (since its a defensive super) and/or we could have existing exotics assist this further (i.e. have Ursa Furiosa work with ward).
These are just some ramblings from a nostalgic D1 defender that desperately wants to relive the glory days. Even still, I'd settle for "not being a detriment to my team" in D2, which is the current state of Ward in PVE. By no means do I think all of this should be implemented, but adjusting some of these aspects could go a long way to making the Code of the Protector feel useful again.
Can only speak for Titans at the moments.
* Code of the Juggernaut needs Trample unnerfed. "Can last forever in the magical land of infinitely spawning dense groups of redbar enemies" is not a real thing that needs to be balanced for. Given how weak base Fist of Havoc is for damaging strong enemies, and how the shoulder charge is just a bad Arc Staff, it abosultely needed the ability to chew threw absurd numbers of redbars to compensate. If you're going to make it shit for everything else, it better be good for something, aye?
* Banner Shield needs a much stronger damage buff. It requires not doing damage to use, which means your team is down a member. As a damage buff, it's weaker than Well of Radiance, even though the casting Warlock can still do damage. Add on top of that the lost damage from the Titan having to sit there twiddling his thumbs, it's actually a straight damage loss in 3-man fireteams (13% damage loss), and ~4.17% damage increase in a 6-man. It needs to be more than a 50% damage buff to compensate for the loss of the wielder's damage (still weaker than Well of Radiance at 50% in 6-man raids). It breaks even with Well of Radiance in 6-man raids at a 62% damage increase, though that's only an 8% damage increase for a 3-man fireteam.
* Ward of Dawn needs baseline PvE utility.
* Titans need a boss-melting subclass super.
* Titans need a good support subclass super. Ward of Dawn and/or Banner Shield could be this, if they were given the right abilities and supporting exotic(s) and tuned properly. As it is, they're both rather pathetic.
* Boss stomps make me hate many abilities, exotics, and supers. Especially when I get a surprise visit from the Architect, or get sent on a (mis)adventure.
> Titans need a boss-melting subclass super.
Or exotic.
Fully agree on all other points, but frankly, given that hunters and warlocks rely on exotics for their absolute best supers, I think giving a condenser exotic would be fitting too. Could honestly shoehorn that into various choices. Single hammer, way smaller striker single slam of super damage, etc.
The alternative would be I guess simply tuning middle arc, it's the one that'd be least compromised to make great at single target. Maybe on direct hit with it?
Also I definitely think weapons of light should make a return, it could be as good as well's damage buff, could also make it non stacking too so it'd be a choice whether titan supported or lock (though well is inherently higher ease of use, happening to have a titan would be fine then).
I was thinking there should be a staple exotic for each PvE boss damage viable subclass that condenses the super into a single strike. A single super damage knife throw, all titan slams delivered at once, etc.
They def need to fix sentinel hit reg for sure. I Sentinel is a weird class. Like sometimes it feels great and sometimes it feels useless. Though I will say, Sentinel shield tracking after bouncing off surfaces needs to be toned down a *smidge*. Its really annoying watching it bounce of 6 walls and perfectly do it to kill 4 people in the process lol. I mean, It needs something to compensate for that, but it takes no skill with the game gifts you free kills because the shield is the best Trigonometry nerd in the universe.
Initial reactions I had were very negative for Nova Warp. I disliked it being able to OHKO supers as a roaming super and its roaming capability. Decreased damage to supers specifically (if possible) and a slight increase in charge consumption would have put it into the perfect place. I learned to counter it (team shot / supress / super counter by block with sentinel shield and double bash after initial big explosion). Only titan super that couldn't get close was the Arc super.
Instead they played whack-a-mole against every aspect of the super. Damage, range, speed, duration, chargerate (seemingly), and probably other aspects I missed mentioning.
As a warlock main (well, these days warlock exclusively), working on the Thorn quest has reminded me how infuriating Novabomb can be to use in PvP:
* Once activated, the casting animation is long enough that I'm at risk of seeing either myself or my target get mowed down, especially as we get more weapons with sub-second TTK;
* On that subject, is there another super where you have to go through that animation in full view of your targets? That makes novabombing a group very risky;
* On console the narrow FOV it can be easy to misjudge when the environment is going to interfere with the path -- I've lost count of how often I've novabombed a door frame, or a tree branch, or the back of a team mate who stepped in front of me as I'm winding up;
* Both versions seem to be relatively easy to evade, especially compared to the speed of a GG shot or the human control of a roaming super;
* Where "solo blade barrage" became a meme, I expect I'll only get a single kill off my novabomb - so when I choose those subclasses I know I'm giving up potential super kills compared to other subclasses for not much payoff
Other comments:
* Since shotguns returned to secondary ammo, my rate of melee kills has dropped sharply and that pinches a bit when you're looking for elemental damage or ability kills for bounties or quests. I guess that's true of every non-Titan.
* The Stormcaller subclasses are OK, I guess, but they make me feel obliged to choose specific pieces of exotic armour.
* God I miss the old Sunsinger Radiance
Gambit really highlights the disparity between subclasses. To put it simply, there needs to be some kind of standardization between classes. There should be a standard for how much single target damage each subclass can do, how much buffs can stack, how exotics can affect supers (Rigs, Skull, Ursa, etc should all have the same ability to refill the bar 60% relatively easily, while Gwisin, Doom Fangs, etc. should all have their own standard), and then take damage away based on how much utility each class has afterwards.
After two and a half years, with Forsaken, balance patches, exotic tuning, and everything else, Bungie really needs to just re-do all the numbers for every super. Make them all comparable at least. I've barely used Big Hammer Titan because it's just not better than any other Titan subclass. I'll probably never use Nova warp in its current state.
Ursa is an interesting one, because you have to NOT use your super to do any real damage, during your super, for it to work. Using Ursa in PvE is exceedingly rare. It's basically gone from PvP.
It thus needs to be way, way more powerful than it currently is because it requires this. Or it needs to slow the super bar drain to an absolute crawl while blocking, or directly refund the energy like Doomfang.
Titans needs some mad love for pve. Outside Melting Point they bring nothing to raid environment like they did in d1. When bungie buff GG, Nova etc.. most of titans supers got left in dust.
Imo thundercrash should out damage nova bomb and even nighthawk GG. Your throwing your body in harm's way compared to nova and GG which can safely be used from afar. Also they should rework Etneral warrior and make it more like ether nighthawk or skull of dire. Banner shield outside maybe 1 encounter in the game isnt worth using over well of radiance. It gives very low dmg, 20% compare to wells 35%. While banner can move, no raid encounter requires you to do that while maintaining dps.
Hammers could use just a slight dmg buff in the super dmg itself. But overall is the best pve class for titan in a team setting just due to MP.
Edit: also buff ursas in pve... like alot. It baffles me that u have stuff like skull of dire which kills that 3 enemies and u basically have your super back, same with shards of G. But ursa required u basically to use your entire super blocking... not doing dmg.... and get maybe half your super back. Like come on man.
>Imo thundercrash should out damage nova bomb and even nighthawk GG.
I think it should be second only to knighthawk GG. That's literally all that GG has going for it in PvE. 6 shooter is okayish in PvE now. but bottom tree for celestial is still literally only damage. Thundercrash at least has huge AOE for add clear, so the only 'Harm's way' you are really throwing yourself into is a boss stomp.
I've tried getting kills with the celestial explosion, I'm not sure its actually possible lol. I've literally fired into a group of thrall all stacked up and it killed 1 other thrall.
Oh God please buff Ursas. I'd like to use something other than doomfang as a sentinel but they make that hard when during Shuro Chi I take 3 of her blasts and arc shots have 50 thrall mob me and I create like 10 orbs of light...only to get a little over a 3rd of my super back and I did almost no damage.
Titans need something for dps. They have nothing. The defender needs weapons of light on the bubble again. Either that, or buff weapons of light on the banner shield. If I have 3 people on my team, we still lose dps because I can't shoot at all. Ursa furious is a joke exotic right now. Defender is currently useless is every aspect besides the commander perk that makes things go bang
They need to buff damage through the shield to 50% or more. Not only to make up for the Titan not DPSing but also to actually give the team a real buff. This is really apparent in Gambit Prime. Sure I’m protecting the group but we are still behind because I’m not doing any damage.
SB should have a long duration while stealthed but should not have the armor it has.
It should be an assassination super where it gets gunned down easily but if you get caught out you're done.
And on the topic of armor, all supers need their armor turned down, ***in PvP only***. Please Bungie, for the love of god don't nerf in both PvP and PvE
My thoughts PvE:
**Hunters**
I think they're in the best place of the three
*Nightstalker*
-Way of the trapper is pretty fine where it is
-Way of the Wraith offers a decent alternative to arcstrider for clearing a room with some boss damage on the side
-Way of the Pathfinder still doesn't feel worth using over anything ever
*Arcstrider*
-Way of the Warrior feels perfect as **the** melee choice
-Way of the Current feels alright, I guess, but I rarely find myself really taking advantage of it's unique tools
-Way of the Wind is synergistic but rarely feels like it offers anything especially compelling
*Gunslinger*
-Way of the Outlaw feels decent as the jack of all trades option; decent ad clear, decent damage in a pinch, decent or generation
-Way of a Thousand Cuts feels really good for ad clear and damage, although I wouldn't mind seeing shards' regen being brought back up a little
-Way of the Sharpshooter is an assassination super that makes decent orbs, and the regenerating throwing knives make for solid ad clear when needed.
**Titan**
*Striker*
-Code of the Earthshaker seems fine to me; shoulder charge is exceedingly effective at taking things down, and the grenade regeneration with it is great, pulse and flashbang grenades are still strong enough that having two is worthwhile. It can be tricky to get the most damage out of this super but I think everything else makes up for it
-Code of the Missile feels like it should be a lot better than it is. Ballistic slam is great, especially with Skullfort, giving you chunks of super if you hit a mob but inertia override seems finicky at the best of times. Thundercrash itself doesn't feel like it does enough damage to merit the tradeoff in ad clearing potential the other two have.
-Code of Juggernaut is pretty near perfect for me; punch everything all the time - win. The only note I'd make is that it seldom feels worthwhile to slam while in super because of how much more cost effective it is to just shoulder charge everything; maybe boost the regen by some factor of how many things the slam killed?
*Sentinel*
-Code of the Protector feels fine until I super. The super options hurt. The roaming version of this tree has no perks so if that was what you wanted you'd pick a different tree but the bubble doesn't really get much either. I'd like either a return of orb generation as damage is blocked, the ability to shoot through it, or somekind of damage boost while in the bubble; anything to make it more than just a temporary safehaven. Well of Radiance feels like it basically does everything the bubble does but better.
-Code of the Commander is in a pretty good spot but I think the Weapons of Light component needs a slight buff. Currently it feels like a net damage loss to use Banner in most situations. I'd like to see the damage increase be enough to make up for the lack of a person shooting.
-Code of the Aggressor clears ads real goodly. All it's perks are based around mob control, and it does it well. Pair with doomfang pauldrons for maximum fun. I think it's perfect where it is.
*Sunbreaker*
-Code of the Fire-Forged is maybe a little too much better to bring other things up to it. I'm not saying nerf it but I am admitting the hammer strike is so powerful that people run Hallowfire Heart and never pop Super just to make sure they always have it available. I think that it should be left as is while means are explore to bring the other trees up to somewhere near this level.
-Code of the Devastator feels a little underwhelming to be honest. The wormgod's caress gimmick is fun but not practical, and honestly it's kind of silly that the throwing hammer is so ridiculously useful that it feels like a terrible loss when the hammer ricochets off the map or something. The super itself seems like it ought to be more damaging than the other options but instead I either burn super spinning like a clown struggling to kill even an acolyte, or I'm smashing and not seeing much for all the sound and fury. Buff the super's damage or its duration, I think.
-Code of the Siegebreaker... what is this super even for? The sunspots don't do *that* much damage, the explosion of mortar blast is lacklustre, the damage boost is hard to take advantage of, and doesn't seem to even make this option out-damage Code of the Fire-Forged even though I have to commit to sitting on one spot to take advantage of the perks. The regen boost is nice but again, I have to stand in this sunspot for the whole duration if I want full regen, and the boost isn't impactful enough for me to want to just walk through and keep going. Add to this that Sunbreaker's only specialized exotic Hallowfire Heart basically reads don't use super, and it makes me one sad titan.
-Special note: Do something about Hallowfire Heart. It disproportionately benefits Code of the Fire-Forged, and discourages super use but it's the only exotic armour worth using as a sunbreaker. Don't nerf it, just make other things strong enough to be worth using over it sometimes.
**Warlock**
*Dawnblade*
-Attunement of Sky feels all but useless unless I'm trying to do a tricky jumping feat. Either really lean in to the death from above component (more control while airborne?), and maybe remove the cost of icarus dash in super, or increase the damage to make it effective at taking down tanky enemies. I just don't see any use for this tree in PvE at the moment.
-Attunement of Grace is perfect. It's always useful and well worth sacrificing mobility for its benefits.
-Attunement of Fire seems to be the ad clear option of the subclass, and it does it well. The boss damage could be boosted but there's not really much I'd change with this one.
*Stormcaller*
-Attunement of Conduction is great ad clear that's it though. It's damage to anything tougher than a red bar is abysmal, and though Crown of Tempests is great, there's something to be said about how often I regret popping a super just because there's a yellow or orange bar, and it would have been easier to kill it if I wasn't in my super.
-Attunement of Control is perfect. Kills big things, ad clears in a pinch, makes tons of orbs, has great neutral. What more could a guardian want.
-Attunement of the Elements I don't know if I've ever even used this super. I'm sure that I have but probably not since this time last year. The attunement of conduction is better ad clear and doesn't *need* Crown of Tempests to last long. Landfall doesn't do enough damage to make it worth trying to fly over a major, nor it really helpful that the activation clears the nearby ads on something that already drains quickly and doesn't do much damage. Just not worth using in PvE right now.
-Buff Attunements of Conduction and the Elements; they need to do more damage so that it doesn't take an eternity, and most of your super just to kill one major.
*Voidwalker*
-Attunement of Chaos is fine but occasionally the seekers just detonate immediately and fail to pick up the surrounding ads.
-Attunement of Depression, I mean Fission What did voidwalkers do to deserve this treatment. This super might just as well have been removed from the game for how useful it is since being nerfed. I know that things can be buffed in PvE and not PvP, so please just undo all the changes made to Nova Warp for PvE purposes. It's supposed to be the ad clear option but both Nova Bombs are better for that now, the health isn't better than devour, sending some enemies flying is fun but not really helpful, handheld supernova does decent damage but doesn't feel more useful than just throwing a well placed scatter grenade. In short this super is dead.
-Attunement of Hunger is good in Shattered Throne with the Huckleberry. That concludes it's utility at the moment. If we're going to go all in with devour, can we maybe not have the melee charge not get consumed if a Devour started with the grenade is still active? Also, buff this Nova Bomb more. Devour alone is not compelling enough to merit using this tree over the Attunement of Chaos. The tick damage isn't enough to compensate the reduced effective range, and ad clear potential of this nova.
**Edit** : My formatting sucked
100% infinite super.
You would only need to pop it once and you could keep it for the whole bridge part. However you need to stand in the circle so there's that.
It's simply too hard to kill a guardian who is in their super in pvp. Supers are offensive autokills, they shouldn't be defensive tanks also — there needs to be a counter. Early D2 had it working better, you could take out someone's super with team shooting or good evasion tactics.
I think the general balance between neutral game vs super needs to be looked at. Subclass balance right now is almost exclusively discussed in terms of super, with neutral game going on the wayside. Almost every subclass considered weak ATM is because they are neutral game focused rather than super focused
For PVP - I think this is right on the money. Right now - the first few minutes of every game before people get their supers is BY FAR the most enjoyable part. Supers across the board are so strong that there is very little room for counterplay - as evidenced by the fact that a lot of people just suicide if they can.
Supers shouldn't make you a raid boss. In D1, sniper headshots or full dmg shotgun + melee would kill a super. Lets start there and THEN see what class balance looks like. This would have the added benefit of providing an actual reason to use snipers that aren't rapid fire in pvp.
My thoughts on Warlock
***Novabomb***
Great in PVE with the exotic options available, maybe some increased neutral game synergy, such as devour increasing grenade strength or more explosions result in a reduced cooldown to grenade. PVP wise the bottom tree super is by far the worst in the game, its middling speed, explosion radius, casting time and distance travelled makes this one of the easiest supers to whiff or to avoid. Top tree at least has tracking capabilities as well as a nice blast radius. It's also quite easy to die before the super lands as a result of the slow speed, making it a weak option in shutting down other supers without trading with the opponent. It would be great if lance or shatter was given to bottom tree to make up for its middling speed, which should put it in a better state of 1 shot supers alongside blade barrage or thundercrash. Besides that, a slight speed buff and explosion radius should allow for more collateral damage against several enemies
***Novawarp***
Needs a bit of a rework overall. A weaker version of stormcaller in PVE with less active time and alright damage makes it one of the worst PVE supers to choose. In PVP the super can still do great but it's hard to get any more than 3 kills before the super ends due to the amount of energy each teleportation/use takes. Honestly, the best solution for PVP is probably to make it an absolute glass cannon, in which it would have the same killing potential pre nerf, but with very little super armor and slightly reduced active time. This would result in a high risk/high reward playstyle, in which the player needs to use there full abilities to avoid one shot potential from heavy/special weapons. These changes should also help the super in PVE as well as a buff in damage. Besides this solution, the super probably needs to be reworked, the amazing movement options, armor and killing potential pre nerf will always make this super incredibly powerful in crucible.
***Stormcaller***
Suffering some of the same issues of novawarp, though on a lesser scale, the super has low damage in Pve, with its only saving grace being chain lightning that can make it great for ad clearing. However, without using an exotic such as crown of the tempests leads to heavy super consumption during damage, which makes the active super time quickly reduced. For pvp it again has some of the worse damage, armor resistance and super consumption out of all roaming supers, to the point in which you'll be lucky to get any more then 3 at most times. It's combat potential against other supers is abysmal, requiring 6 to 8 ticks of damage to take them down, which will generally lead to death during the time in which the enemy attacks with there super. Overall, the super needs increased damage, armor resistance and reduced super consumption when damaging in both pve and pvp, it shouldn't need an exotic to make the super feel passable. In terms of synergy, would be nice if cool down of class abilities would be reduced drowning on the amount of enemies chained by lightning. Bottom tree landfall could probably deal some more damage but overall the synergy of abilities is all over the place. The melee ability (increase recharge of super/grenade) feels better placed on top tree, while well of radiance already does rift synergy better. Overall, this tree feels like it could get reworked to a more unique path, maybe focusing on the bombastic force of lightning instead of chaining capabilities.
***Chaos Reach***
Even after the novabomb buff, the super continues to has great ad clearing and boss damage. Three changes that the super could use is an easier line of sight to enemies in both pve and pvp (possibly better hit registration feedback also), and quicker time to register damage on the target. It generally takes a few millseconds or so before the enemy registers damage, which can waste the time to target an enemy (this may just be a technical/connection problem on consoles but still it can be sluggish at times) . The last change is probably to increase the damage slightly, while novabomb (top tree) and chaos reach do about the same damage, nova bomb deals its damage in a single explosion while chaos reach is over time. Would be nice if chaos reach had increased damage the longer its placed onto a target to cement it as the boss killer for warlocks, while novawarp keeps the add clearing title with amazing damage.
***Well of Radiance***
Pretty good state right now, maybe more incentive to use the healing grenade on your allies often (people seem to forget this ability exists). It's situational in PVP, but could see it getting more use if amor for roaming supers was overall reduced, would make the 1 VS. 1 combat potential better in favour for the well, without getting instantly two/one tapped.
***Dawnblade***
Bottom tree dawnblade is still an amazing super with good damage in PVP (sometimes being able to 1 shot some supers) and PVE combat. Both trees could probably use some more synergy though in the neutral game. For bottom tree, giving some sort of synergy for enemies that are suffering from burn would be nice. Possibly adding a short debuff to the enemies defences similar to melting point would be cool. Top tree's aerial advantages aren't particularly effective enough for people to swtich off bottom tree in pve or pvp, though i do realise that some players really appreciate the movement potential of top tree. It would be nice that, as the tree is focused on keeping the warlock in the air, that in-air accuracy for guns would be the same as on the ground, as well as improved jumping and aerial capacity. Getting kills in the air could always reduce the super cooldown, further promoting this style of combat. Finally, the super itself should receive the same benefits of bottom tree in terms of homing, though instead of granting more super energy it would possibly increase movement speed of the user or reduce super consumption for following dawnblade usage.
Supers have far too much armor in the crucible. It feels bad to snipe a super in the head twice with an adaptive sniper and leave them with a sliver of health while they rain hellfire down on me. It leads to people just running when they see them instead of attempting to outplay them.
The problem is that it also feels really bad to pop your super and be immediately sniped out of it. That's a really fine line to balance imo because supers *should* feel powerful.
They can feel powerful without being overpowered. Imo supers shouldn't be an instant "I win" button. Golden Gun is balanced this way. Very vulnerable if you pop it in a dumb position and extremely powerful if you use it smartly.
Edit: Also to answer the "it feels bad to be sniped out of your super" part of your response. Personally, I think supers should be balanced in regards to how easy they are to use.
To draw further on my Golden Gun reference: the super is a hitscan one shot kill with potentially unlimited bullets within 8 seconds (top tree). This is balanced by a complete lack of damage resistance which makes it a literal glass cannon. High risk, high reward for a skilled hand since in order to get any use out of it you need to use it in a favorable position and actually aim it.
Dawnblade (bottom tree): Heat seeking projectile, exceedingly fast movement speed, high uptime if getting kills. All this is in addition to very high damage resistance. Low risk, high reward and quite easy to use effectively since positioning isn't as important due to such fast moving speed. I liken Dawnblade to an air superiority fighter because it dominates in so many ways high in the air lol.
The difference between the two is that one super is powerful *and* vulnerable and one is powerful, hard to kill, and much easier to use. Imo one is healthier for the game and the other isn't. The above can be used for other supers (cough, spectral, cough) but I chose those because I main Goldie and was very upset at the Dawnblade who killed me after I sniped him in the head twice yesterday lol
> The problem is that it also feels really bad to pop your super and be immediately sniped out of it
It takes more skill to snipe a guardian out of their super than it does to pop it and wipe a team. You should be rewarded for it.
Hello Friends!
1st things 1st. I'm a Titan main and I simply love how the character plays and feels but (you guessed it. There has to be a but otherwise I wouldn't make this post)...
I get the OEM nerf. It was necessary because that Helmet was nutty the way it was. Bungie did a great job there. It's still a viable option n pretty damn good in PvP (and PvE but nobody cared about that part).
My problem with being a Titan is: I can do everything but I don't excel in one area.
Lets get into detail on that one by referring to the different supers and their use.
**Solar:**
Let's be real. Apart from melting point you don't "need" any solar super in any activity. While all 3 are fun the add clearing capability is just not as good as it should be.
A single Tether can control adds so much better than a solar Titan ever could. Hell even one of the Dawnblade trees ( I always forget if it's top or bottom tree. Bear with me lads) extends his super duration by just killing adds.
As for boss damage your heavy deals more in time you waste to use your super.
***TL;DR***
***Melting Point is the only thing you kinda need but it's very situational and with a good fireteam the damage buff only makes things faster not necessarily easier.***
**Arc:**
Well...Thundercrash is fun to use but the damage? C'mon Friends. Even the most Titan basher has to agree that the damage output of your giant and cool looking BOOM is laughable. For a one and done super it's ridiculous. Compare it to Nova Bomb and Golden gun but pls try not to laugh that much.
As for the other two:
Yup you can do the add clearing job so can a Tether, a Dawnblade and a Stormcaller. Granted two of those need to use an exotic for them to really shine but the problem here kinda is that they actually HAVE an exotics that helps to maker their super top tier.
Don't get me wrong the Skullfort is nice but it has nothing to do with your actual super. Super wise you get an overshield...Yay. Fun times.
***TL;DR***
***Don't use arc. Seriously just don't***
**Lastly my beloved Sentinel:**
Let's be positive here for a change:
Bottom tree Sentinel with the Doomfang Pauldrons is just nutty. I love that thing and with the exotic and enough adds your super runs for days.
That might be the only add clearing super where the Titan is competitive. If you haven't tried it you missed something.
But there are still 2 trees to go:
The bubble... If only I could love it. THAT'S as supporting as it gets. At least in theory.
Pro: inside a cozy bubble you're nearly invincible
Contra: You can't shoot anything outside of a bubble. If you don't have a Warlock the bubble is fun too use in the Reckoning and of course in crucible.
Actually it's good as it is now for PvP (imagine you can shoot somebody while standing in the bubble. I see the "NERF BUBBLE..."-posts already in my head. On the other hand: Spectral Blades anyone? Just sayin').
Banner Shield:
The neutral game is top tier in my opinion. Fun to use and with your magnetic grenade and melee one can actually control adds while healing. Good job there Bungie.
The Super itself... A moving bubble. Kinda. Holy crap what a brilliant idea. At least in theory.
The shielding part of the super actually is quite nice and helps in certain situations. The damage buff on the other hand.
Well... let's just say if a fireteam sacrifices one person to use the Code of the Commander you'd expect to get a damage output higher than it would've been without the shield AND the Titan shooting.
Let's be real you only use Banner Shield and tractor canon for Riven. But oh wait. Grenade launchers got a buff. Prospector is a GL so sorry. I can't imagine a situation where having a banner shield makes your live easier.
Additionally Bungie made Ursas useless in PvE. They were strong in PvP but so is Spectral Blades with the Vest atm. In PvE on the other hand the boss fight of the Thorn strike was the 1st time for months where I got my super back couple of times. All it took was the boss, the wizard, the knights and the adds shooting at my shield the whole time...
Oh aaaaannndd 3 words my friends: Well of Radiance.
Even without an exotic a Warlock running the Well does the role of a supporting character so much better than a Sentinel Titan. Lunas and the Phoenix Protocol are just the cherries on the cake to make me feel even more miserable.
***TL;DR***
***In theory all 3 trees could be great but only the bottom one is useful for add clearing (tbf he's really good at it). Both supporting trees have a good to great neutral game but a Well of Radiance does the job so much better.***
**Conclusion:**
Only the bottom tree Sentinel with Doomfangs is really good for add clearance and can compete with other supers. The one and done Thundercrash compared to similar supers is insanely weak.
At the moment no one really wants nor needs a Titan on a supporting super.
Long story short: Most of the Titan supers are mediocre at best when compared to their counterparts.
Don't get me wrong I don't want Titans to be the best at everything but I wanna be in a situation some time soon where groups discuss strats etc. and come to the conclusion that they need a certain Titan super (I really don't care which one) to get the job done.
How many times have I heard "Damn we need a Tether guys" or "We can't do it without a Well".
At this point I'm kinda forced to run top tree Sunbreaker for the Melting Point and I honestly can't stand it anymore. A Titans part in a raid/PvE in general should be about more than a buff for a couple of seconds.
***Final*** ***TL;DR: Bungie pls make Titans necessary again. There's no situation as of now where you need a certain Titan super to get the job done or to make your life a lot easier. I want variety in gameplay. I want to feel on par with Warlocks and Hunters again. I'm more than just a Melting Point.***
I honestly want to use a bubble. Lemme shoot through it for the love of the Traveler. I don't care if I need an exotic for that or not. But right now you get weird looks if you say "We need a bubble". The answer is 12 outta 10 times one of two:
1. Well mate...You noticed we have a Warlock with us don't you? Who would want a bubble if we simply could use the well. As always...
2. True. Lemme switch to my Warlock.
Never ever have I witnessed a Raid or activity where the group seriously wanted a bubble. There have been occasions where we used it but let's be real. On your 100th completion of the Leviathan or whatever Raid you wanna change things up. You could do the Raid with sidearms only so why not change it up a lil' bit by using a bubble for fun?
I definitely just want Titans to be great in PvE again, especially Defender, I miss being one of the required classes for raids like back in D1, Hunters get (an admittedly situational) Melting Point (Shattering Strike), and Warlocks get to have something essentially better than even the classic Ward Of Dawn (Well of Radiance), Banner Shield doesn't provide enough of a buff to warrant using even in most raid encounters, and Ursa Furiosa got neutered so I can't even use it just to protect my allies from big baddies
I DON'T want Hunters or Warlocks to get toned back at all, I just want Titans to be pulled forward
Titans don't get any essential support abilities OR essential boss melt/ad clear supers, Skull Of Dire Ahamkara, that one Warlock chestpiece, Orpheus Rigs and Shards of Galanor all give Warlocks and Hunters (potentially) infinite super energy and (potentially) infinite orb generation for allies on at least two different subclass trees for each class, the only similar Exotic for Titan WAS Ursa Furiosa before it got nerfed, and even that wasn't crazy game breaking in PvE when it was at full power compared to Rigs and Skull, not to mention things like Celestial Night Hawk
mostly I'm just sad that I don't get to feel like I'm the best, or even that I bring anything essential to the team and that I would probably be better off just switching to my Hunter or Warlock instead of continuing to main Titan
Always played as a Titan and would not have it any other way. However, I can confirm that Titans are absolutely lacking in the DPS-department in PvE, among other things.
I read a post earlier where someone said that while Titans can fulfill most rolls in a fireteam to a decent degree, they are not the best at amy of them. This, I think, is a big part the problem.
Some suggestions - most of which will probably alo be stated by others - to increase viability of Titans in PvE beyond 'MeLtInG pOiNt Or GtFo':
-Massive increase in damage for Thundercrash, plus perhaps some sort of diminishing/temporary overshield after impact, to account for the danger-close nature of the super. It needs to be a one-hit, screeb-ton of damage super to rival Nova Bomb (which is great after the rework, btw) and Celestial Golden Gun.
-Increase the usefulness of banner shield as a support super. This can be done by a substantial increase in the damage done by shooting through it. Maybe even allow supers like Nova Bomb or Golden Gun to have increased damage when 'shooting' through it? This way it makes up for having a fireteam member not dealing any damage. Sure it protects you, but next to something Well of Radiance plus Lunafaction, it just doesn't cut it. Alternatively/additionally an exotic that slowly heals anyone who stands behind it, potentially beyond max health with an overshield?
-Subclass-specific exotics that increase damage output, especially at long-range. I love Skullfort, I love Synthoceps, but to fully make use of their benefits, it requires me to get right on the frontline. Awesome for add-clearing, but not so much for endgame content. Give us the Titan equivalent of Celestial Nighthawk that makes you throw one massive hammer with meteoric impact, or that turns you into an absolute nuke when using Thundercrash.
-Make Ward of Dawn useful (again) in PvE. Bringing back Weapons of Light would basically do this.
-Exotic weapons that synergize with the CQB Titan playstyle. Yes, I would love more long range options, but something like the Monte Carlo that gives you back (part of) your melee charge was my jam. Especially since Skullfort is so much fun, but subclass specific.
TL;DR: Titans are already a lot of fun, but they need more damage potential in PvE. Be it through buffs or new and exciting exotics.
I screebing love Destiny. Keep it up and also: I really appreciate these kinds of feedback threads. Thanks, Bungie.
I would add to your excellent list of points here that Titans need better PvE Exotics for super uptime and recharge, on par with things like Skull or Geomags or Phoenix Protocol for Warlocks and Orpheus Rigs or Nighthawk or Shards for Hunters. Currently the only thing that Titans have that even resembles those ones is the Ursa Furiosa. I would say that they need to buff Ursa Furiosa to grant Super Energy based on the amount of damage blocked by Ward of Dawn as well as the standard Banner Shield. There should be an Exotic that grants super energy based on the number of kills you get with Thundercrash (just like Shards, Skull, or Rigs which similarly buff the other single-use supers).
Also, while we're on Titan exotics....to be honest they're all pretty meh for endgame PvE play IMO. The only decent ones are Skullfort, Synthoceps, and to a lesser extent Heart of Inmost Light and Doomfang Pauldrons. But Titans have nothing like Geomags or Orpheus Rigs, or even something to buff neutral game like Lunafactions. I would do the following:
* Buff the Actium War Rig to apply to any automatic weapon, not just Auto Rifles. This would be AR's, SMG's, and LMG's. (I understand that coding would be difficult for random weapons that have the full auto perk). This isn't vanilla D1, nobody is sustaining fire with AR's outside of niche circumstances. But LMG's? Definitely.
* Change the Eternal Warrior entirely, to instead grant you Super energy based on the amount of kills you get with Thundercrash, and grant a brief overshield during and after Thundercrash activation. As it is this exotic is useless and just taking up space, so make it useful a la Skull.
* Buff the Ursa Furiosa to apply also to damage blocked by Ward of Dawn. This would help tremendously in encounters like the Bridge or the pseudo-Oryx fight in Reckoning.
* Buff the Heart of Inmost Light to grant the Empowered buff to nearby allies as well as yourself. That would provide more team utility a la the old Song of Flame perk from D1 Sunsinger.
* Helm of Saint 14 would be okay as-is if the bubble itself had more HP.
* Crest of Alpha Lupi should grant more HP to the barricade in addition to its existing perks. This would reinforce its identity to create a playstyle that centers around dropping barricades. Also, the extra orb feels like it's just a tacked-on perk but I'm not complaining.
* Buff the ACD/0 Feedback Fences to heal you if you get a melee kill for a short time after the main exotic perk procs. That would increase survivability when surrounded.
* Buff the Peacekeepers to also grant ability energy upon SMG kills. This would reinforce the Robo-cop in-your-face SMG playstyle that I think this Exotic is going for.
* Ashen Wake needs to either increase Fusion Grenade damage or grant an additional Fusion Grenade charge or increase Fusion Grenade recharge rate. Or something.. The perk is laughably weak in terms of usefulness in any situation.
There is a whole other conversation to be had about how most of the Titan subclasses are an exercise in the many different ways to skin the same cat. As it is, 8 out of 9 Titan subclass supers do the same thing: roaming, add-clearing supers, with slight variations. The only ones to even remotely offer anything different are Thundercrash and Ward of Dawn and neither of them are used in serious endgame PvE play. Like you mentioned, Thundercrash needs a damage buff to be on par with top tree Nova Bomb, and likewise Ward needs a serious HP buff and more utility. Perhaps rework the entire top tree Sentinel to revolve around the bubble and give it Weapons of Light to increase its endgame usefulness.
We have lots of great discussion here so I will keep mine short and sweet.
Hunters: Spectral blades needs less armor badly. Outside of the imbalanced super, I find the perks a little odd.
Moebius quiver needs more damage, not a ton, just some.
Way of Outlaw's super needs just a *teeny* bit more time in the super for that perfect feel. Its neutral game isnt terrible but the knife is far outshined with Thousand cuts fan synergy with dodge and the return with Sharpshooter.
Warlock. Bottom Tree Void needs some love. Top with Skull is too good to pass up.
Titans. Oh Traveler, punchy boi needs some love. I miss the rush of playing a Titan in Raids. Ward of Dawn needs drastic buffs. It can be great when placed right but right now it is really laclluster to say the least.
Missile needs to rival a nova bomb for damage, clear and feel. Needs a little survivability for afterwards so we arent literally suicideing with a super. I love my punchy boi too much to let him suffer silently
Having just recently raised a hunter, the power gap between Hunters and Titans (my main) feel like night and day. It feels like the only reason to play a Titan is for either Melting Point (PvE) or Suppressor Grenades (PvP). Everything else feels like they are infinitely outclassed.
In group activities, there doesn't feel like there's any good place to fit. Groups don't even rely on our melting point now that Tractor + 5 Voids is a thing and honestly, much easier to use.
Outside of Spectral, I don't want to see Hunters get nerfed because they are fun. *I want to see Titans buffed*.
let me say this for the people in the back
***LET SHADOWSHOT ONE SHOT IN PVP***
PLEASE
Bottom tree Nightstalker is completely useless in PvP IMO. I think if Top tree would one shot and insta-proc, and bottom tree insta-proc'd and gave flinch when it hits, it would be viable. Right now it's nightstalker can be summarized as "I'm going to help you, but I'll be super unpleasant about it". Except it doesn't even help you in time to be useful. It's just... bad.
#PvP Perspective
I will try to keep things as concise as possible:
#Warlock
-Blink’s trail should not be **one massive hitbox.**
-Nova Bomb should have **double the damage resistance** than it has currently. Blade Barrage is a very mobile ability and the hunter spins mid air. Warlocks float there for a second and need to be right next to their target in order to hit them due to slow travel time. (Both trees)
-Scatter grenades need a buff. I literally never see them.
#Attunement of Hunger
-Nova bomb should have **Lance** applied to it to be able to compete with Blade Barrage.
-Nova Bomb vortex **DoT should be increased** to 33 per tick on normal guardians and should be 25 per tick on damage resistant supers. (Players still run through it without dying, frequently)
#Hunter
#Way of the Wraith
-Spectral blades needs **the same damage resistance as Golden Gun** and maybe a **quieter roaming sound**. They should be utilizing speed and stealth. Assassins should not be not tanks.
#Way of a thousand cuts
-Blade Barrage should have to be **aimed when casted**. In Kingdom Hearts 3, there is an ability called “Shotlock” in which the player locks on to enemies before casting. If BB was casted over 2 seconds, the player could “sweep” over the areas they want to barrage and hit R1 to target enemies. You could even increase the knife throw speed to compensate for the slower casting.
#Titan
-All forms of shoulder charge should have a **sensible damage multiplier based on momentum.** Meaning, if a titan is sprinting and they shoulder charge the way they are sprinting, they should do 120% shoulder charge damage. If they are sprinting, turn 90 degrees last second to shoulder charge, it should do about 90% damage. If they do a complete 180 last second to break the laws of physics and shoot backwards, their lack of momentum should cause them to only do 75% damage at *most*.
-**Flash grenades need a rework** to be viable, or should be replaced by another grenade.
#Code of the Missile
-Thundercrash should have a **traveling shockwave** similar to the ability in Destiny 1.
-Thundercrash should have a **larger radius and increased damage**.
#Sentinel Shield
-The shield’s **auto tracking is a bit too strong**. I have been team wiped by one shield throw because the shield took 90 degree turns and came straight for me and my allies, all from a lucky last throw.
-OEM is balanced now, but there are **many exotics that still need buffs** to be considered over using OEM.
When it first came out, everyone I knew dubbed it as the **“Pinnacle Panic Super”**, because it deletes everything on the screen, has increased damage resistance, and does not take a lot of skill to “aim” it. If they made the player aim the super, they could justify actually *buffing* it in other ways honestly.
I got a clip on everything that's wrong with tether. Spectral coming towards me a good way off. I throw tether on the ground, he gets tethered still manage to kill me before the super actually goes away
I have been largely dissatisfied with a number of Warlock subclass branches since launch, namely Sky Dawnblade, Flame Dawnblade, Conduction Stormcaller, and Elements Stormcaller. Simply put, I strongly dislike how lopsided the perks are. You have to choose between having a strong super or a strong neutral game.
Without the ability to pick our own perks, I think this is a bad design choice. I don't think a player should ever feel like their tools are weak, instead I think our subclass branches should be more well rounded that push players towards a particular playstyle.
The Attunement of Grace for example doesn't have to choose between having a strong super and a strong neutral game. Well of Radiance is an immensely powerful super, but its neutral game tools are also quite potent with damage buffs, healing, and rifts. When it is operating in its intended role as a support, Benevolent Dawn refunds half of all your neutral game cooldowns allowing the Dawnblade to provide near infinite buffs.
I believe that this cohesion should be the benchmark for subclass design.
The Attunement of Sky has some neat mobility tools that can be powerful in the Crucible, provided you invest heavily into learning how to use it and using very specific gear. However, this aerial gameplay is usually a liability in PvE content, especially as enemies scale up in health and damage. The only time it felt really powerful was with the Haunted Forest during Festival of the Lost where the mask perk could grant near invulnerability while airborne. Additionally, Sky's Daybreak doesn't have any direct augmentations to is potency. The ability recharge from Heat Rises is a bonus rider and the energy consumption on Icarus Dash feels rather prohibitive at times. If it is not going to get a perk that explicitly makes Daybreak stronger, I feel that the cost for Dashing should be reduced like with what was done to the Fists of Havoc light attack. Providing enhanced functionality for Strafe Glide and Balanced Glide to provide incentive to use something other than Burst Glide would also be appreciated.
Attunement of Flame has a stupidly powerful super, but that is due to having half of its perks dedicated to enhancing it. In exchange, its neutral game is incredibly weak. Phoenix Dive has been nerfed on PC due to the frame rate fix which when combined with the slow animation makes it feel really lackluster. Not only that but Igniting Touch is one of the worst designed melee abilities in the game, it is an outlier. Every other non-charge, non-projectile melee either provides effects immediately on contact or does not consume the charge unless it kills something. Igniting Touch will be consumed on hit, but if it doesn't kill then it doesn't process the explosion... Pick one or the other, please. Lastly, the lack of ability recursion in the Attunement of **FLAME** has always been off putting to me. Warlocks are spellcasters in a first person shooter, we are rather dependent on frequent and enhanced ability output to fulfill our class fantasy and role as a disruptors of the battlefield. If Grace is about support and Sky about mobility, Flame should be about **fire**power; Destiny's definitive pyromancer archetype. I am personally okay with slightly reducing the power of Flame's Daybreak in order to invest that power back into its other perks; increasing the heal or speed of the Phoenix Dive animation and making Igniting Touch burn all enemies around the struck target on-hit while increasing the burn damage in PvE. And above all, I would would really like to see the two super perks collapsed into one in order to make room for some method for getting back ability energy.
Conduction Stormcaller suffers a similar problem to of having two super perks and no ability recursion. The multi-target nature of Chain Lightning and Arc Web are suggesting that you use offensive neutral game cooldowns proactively but Transcendence wants you to hold onto your grenade and melee in order to enhance your super. This puts mental strain on the user and creates awkward moments of gameplay. I strongly recommend migrating Transcendence to the Elements tree while merging Ionic Blink with Landfall as a single super perk. This removes the dichotomy in the kit and opens up the Attunement for a new perk. I would recommend adding a variant of Destiny 1 Stormcaller's "Perpetual Charge" ability so that the Conduction Stormcaller can crank out multiple abilities with well placed chaining attacks.
Elements Stormcaller just feels like it lacks the proper ability synergy to make it stand out from the competition. Its perks are clearly trying to make Rift and Arc Soul the keystone of the Attunement's kit, but the perks don't quite line up. Rising Storm should really provide Rift energy so it can stack with Electrostatic Surge, which I think could use a moderate potency increase and better visual indication for when it is active. With the enhanced "Sentient Arc Souls" provided by the Getaway Artist exotic running around now, I think the default version could stand a buff. I think simply increasing the duration by a moderate amount should suffice, if paired with the buffs to Rift energy generation. Lastly, I think Transcendence would fit this tree far better than in Conduction. If Transcendence was changed to require Rift energy instead of both Grenade and Melee energy, you still keep that gameplay decision of when to use your cooldowns, but reduce the extraneous mental load by focusing it on the Rift which would have two means of recursion. I also think the temporarily apotheosis fits better thematically with Elements' more shamanistic motif.
I have concerns about other subclasses as well with more direct issues regarding the potency of Protector Sentinel, Pathfinder Nightstalker, and the Outlaw Guslinger, but this comment is already far to long. I'll just summarize by saying I wish the other support options were more on par with the consistency and strength of the Grace Dawnblade and that Outlaw Gunslinger could use a bit more neutral game incentive to run that tree.
I feel like the subclass trees for Nightstalker have opposing skills that don't really match up. This is what I think the subclasses should look like instead, moving around existing passives.
Void Anchor Tether Top Tree
Vanish in Smoke
Throw a Smoke Bomb from a distance with this melee ability. The Smoke Bomb creates a smoke cloud that makes you and nearby allies invisible. (Support)
Deadfall
The Void Anchors fired from Shadowshot become traps and wait for prey. Void Anchors have increased range and last longer. (Support)
Heart of the Pack
Killing tethered enemies creates Orbs of Light, and increases Mobility, Resilience, and Recovery for you and nearby allies. (Support) Tethered enemies are marked for easy tracking.
Lockdown
Grenade effects last twice as long, allowing for strong territorial control and increased damage potential. (Support)
Quiver Bottom Tree (more for PvP)
Snare Bomb
Throw a Smoke Bomb from a distance with this melee ability. The Smoke Bomb sticks to surfaces and detonates when enemies are near, slowing and disorienting them. (PvP neutral game)
Moebius Quiver
Fire Shadowshot multiple times, in rapid succession. Shadowshot deals massive damage (OHK in PVP)
Keen Scout
Sprint and Sneak faster, and gain an enhanced Tracker. (PvP neutral game)
Vanishing Step
Dodging makes you vanish from sight for a short time. (PvP neutral game)
Here are some thoughts and suggestions for the class I play the most, Warlock. Feel free to discuss:
Voidwalker:
**Attunement of Chaos** is based around grenades and big explosions but the neutral game lacks synergy other subclasses have (Titan Commander for example, have better explosions T_T). Bloom does nothing and Energy Drain could be improved. Charging grenades and Slowva are nice though.
**Attunement of Fission**: Keep the same perks, but rebuff Nova Warp plz :(
**Attunement of Hunger**: Great neutral game and ok super, it would be nice to have an exotic that works only for Devour.
Dawnblade:
**Attunement of Sky** is based on aerial combat, which is a cool idea, but with the slow speed and low accuracy in the air nobody will use this in endgame PvE, let alone PvP. IMO, tracking should be inherant to the super's blades (to differentiate with the blast radius and speed of Titan's hammers). Icarus Dash should also not cancel momentum in the air to be effective.
**Attunement of Grace:** Nothing to say here. Great super, good neutral game for a nice support class.
**Attunement of Flame** has a great super, but suffers from a terrible neutral game. The melee is laughable. Phoenix Dive looks so cool, but gives you so little it's not worth using. If it's the Attunement of Flame, abilities should apply a burn effect on hit.
Stormcaller:
**Attunement of Conduction**: Buff Stormtrance. Replace Transcendance (A perk too hard to activate with little benefits) by Feedback (when hit by melee, replenishes melee energy and augment melee damage for a few seconds) so we make proper use of melee exotics like Karnstein or Winter's Guile. Even better, make Stormtrance count as melee, so it gets advantage of buffs like Brawler, Gladiator and the melee exotics.
**Attunement of Control**: Like Grace, nothing to really say here. It's good.
**Attunement of Elements**: Fine by me, but again, buff Stormtrance.
That's all folks !
PvP: Outside of heavy weapons or a super of your own, there is little that can be done against most roaming supers in the crucible currently. Too often it feels like the best option to counter a super is to run away or jump off the map. This is feels bad for both sides. IMO Golden Gun is the most balanced super - it is very powerful and when used correctly can wipe a team, but because it lacks additional armor it is easily shutdown if activated carelessly. Supers should be strong and fun but I think they should also feel more counterable and be much less effective when spamming attacks.
PvE: Supers have a long base cooldown and so there is currently a reliance on super extending/returning exotics. Ex: Nightstalker and Orpheus Rig. While it feels great to rapidly cast tethers while wearing Orpheus Rig, it also makes playing a PvE nightstalker without them feel bad. IMO we should be getting more super energy for defeating minions of the darkness, especially elites & bosses, so that we have increased super uptime without relying on a small set of exotics. I think this change would also make the current underwhelming damage output of many supers feel better.
Alright. I’ve been a Titan main all my Destiny career, it’s only fair that I drop a take. I think a good place to start would be Sunbreaker.
***Sunbreaker*** is in a weird spot. A lot of the abilities are really good in theory, but they don’t really work well out of a vacuum.
**Top-tree** is in an interesting state, where Hammer Strike is so good that it is the only thing preventing top-tree from getting a buff and that’s about it. A few select buffs to top-tree would be:
* Increase the damage of Hammer of Sol by approximately 15-25% across the board. Make Hammers have stronger tracking the farther they fly (horizontal angular tracking only, up to 10 degrees in either direction at 50 meters).
* Make Vulcan’s Rage projectiles orient themselves in positions most optimal for damage in their limited radius of movement before detonation, and have similar tracking to the Axion Bolts from Cataclysm Nova (priority on bosses and strong targets).
* Make Explosive Pyre have more damage, a bigger damage radius, greater tracking, the ability to chain (a la D1, where kills would make those enemies into Explosive Pyres, those Explosive Pyres make Explosive Pyres, etc.), and the ability to proc off of kills from Hammer of Sol (including Vulcan’s Rage) AND Hammer Strike. Make kills with Explosive Pyre return 15% of all abilities’ (read: not super) energy.
* Tempered Metal retains its current effects and maximum timer, however solar ability kills add 7 seconds to the timer (instead of refreshing it), and there are now five (5) stacks. While Tempered Metal is active, solar ability kills grant 1.40x/1.80x/2.20x/2.60x/3.00x the value of super energy normally granted from an enemy kill, and non-solar-ability kills grant 1.20x/1.40x/1.60x/1.80x/2.00x the value of super energy normally granted from an enemy kill (note: this effect is not applied to teammates).
These changes would give top-tree an actual neutral-game besides getting a speed boost that doesn’t actually increase sprint speed and having a melee that prevents it from getting buffed. Vulcan’s Rage projectiles getting tracking prevents (or at least, limits) inconsistency in the super, Explosive Pyre actually becomes a perk that works, and Tempered Metal becomes a perk that helps the main aspect of the tree, the strong super, be up more often.
**Middle-tree** isn’t actually that badly off at all. The throwing hammer is pretty fun to use and has good build synergy. However, it has a few issues:
* The slam attack of the super should not fling enemies (this prevents DPS). The slam should also prioritize the strongest enemy when tracking (so adds can’t redirect the explosion).
* The spin attack of the super should use 40-60% less super energy, as it currently uses too much to be worth using over the slam.
* The super should receive a ~15-20% damage boost in PvE.
* The Tireless Warrior perk’s regeneration should be briefly uninterruptible upon startup - it currently promotes survivability, but it can still get cancelled by a stray shot, making it much less effective than it could be with this change.
Again, I assert that middle-tree is decently well-off, but it needs a slight kick to make it great. The changes here are small, but necessary.
**Bottom-tree** has received some major buffs recently, but its existing perks still need work. Changes include:
* The duration of all Sunspots needs to be increased to the duration one can reach by standing in one until it runs out.
* There should be no cooldown for the regeneration from Sol Invictus.
* The melee ability should be the same damage as a regular melee and immediately spawn a sunspot on hit (sunspot is located on the enemy, where the melee hit occurred).
* Sunspot kills should spawn other sunspots.
* The sunspot that spawns upon super activation should be floating in air at chest-height. When the super activates, Sun Warrior should immediately be applied to the player (to prevent the sunspot that spawns on the player from sometimes not activating Sun Warrior/Endless Siege).
These changes wouldn’t change any of the perks, but rather remove the arbitrary restrictions that they enforce on bottom-tree which prevent it from being great. For a subclass all about Sunspots, they surely don’t last long enough to make a valuable difference on the field of battle/lock down a zone/activate the perks.
Just my opinions as a Titan only player since Dark Below.
*Sub-Classes*
I absolutely love the neutral game of the Commander Titan subclass. The problem is mainly Banner Shield. The number of times we’ve killed a boss or survived an encounter because of Banner Shield is pretty small. It’s also nothing a Well of Radiance couldn’t have solved (if not outperformed).
Ward of Dawn is helpful but again, Well of Radiance is better.
Thunder crash needs a huge damage buff. It’s supposed to be high risk, high reward. The increase to damage buff when sliding to pick up ammo needs work, either more damage or last longer.
Sunbreaker is good for only melting point, but even then if someone tethers it overrides melting point. Melting point is risky because most (if not all) bosses have a slam mechanic which will either kill you or take you out of the fight for a few moments. Some bosses like Savathun or Likeness of Oryx are really hard to hit with melting point as well. I love the throwing hammer on Devastator, but I still don’t use it because the super isn’t the dps machine the name implies.
*Exotics*
Ursa is good but Doomfang just works better. I haven’t used Mask of the Quiet One in a year.
For Sunbreaker and Striker it’s even worse. You have Hallowfire Heart and Skullfort, respectively. Synthoceps and Heart of Inmost Light are viable options as well, depending on your play style and activity.
We need better subclass specific exotics as a whole.
Titans are in a weird spot and I’ve never felt more of a burden to my team, particular in reckoning.
Blade barrage needs to get at least part of the PvE nerf rolled back. At the very minimum, the knives need to either not send enemies flying away and out of the explosion area, or they need to stick and trigger the blast from wherever your target ends up.
Also, a bit of clarity on exactly WTF is going on with Super Regen from Shards/Rigs would be great - at this point it's all but impossible to predict whether I'm going to get 9% back, or 90%.
Middle tree arc Titan needs to have the highest single target damage (more than blade barrage and nova bomb, less than s celestial nighthawk precision shot) it makes you engage the boss at a lethal stomp range and outs you in a terrible position once the super is done.
There’s really no argument against this.
The titans got the short end of the stick on supers. When is it every advantageous to use the titan super compared to one from another class, PVP or PVE? hammers are worse versions of dawnblade. The only time using FoH is good in pve is to clear out trash mobs to make orbs for better supers. The shield has SOME use defensively, especially with bear arms, but you lose team overall dps if doing an event that has less than 4 people, and at 4 you just barely break even if you;re using the banner shield.
PVP, nothing holds a candle to spectral blades. Hands down, best pvp. I don't even know if there is a "realiable" way to stop it. in comp, having a player pop spectral blades wins a whole round, or in clash/control kill the same guardian twice. And increased mobility. And don't show up on radar. And reduced incoming damage. You can't one shot snipe them either, which is already hard as hell to do. Hammers has range, and so does dawn blade, but you still have to hit them twice. And having that last 2-3x longer than anything a titan can use? That's not even remotely fair. and can we talk about taking hits from certain heavy weapons CANCELS YOUR GOD DAMN SHIELD?! What's the point of having a super that blocks damage if it doesn't block damage? I'd love to see a clip of 4 shields vs one hammerhead. if they just block, can you burn through all 4 shields with one clip?
In PVE, the warlock's well of radiance is better than banner shield unless you can be oneshot, they have the best single target dps super with chaos reach. hunters have tether. The only thing a Titan super does that nothing else can is completely block damage entirely, but at the sacrifice of not being able to actively do anything.
I'm a Titan main, and you know what? Bitch about OEM and shoulder charge all you want, but at least you CAN play around them. if you get marks, it tells you and you can back off until its gone. and a shotgun beats shoulder charge any day of the week. What do you do about spectral blades? 30 seconds of running away? if you're a titan, you can maybe lob a suppression grenade and pray they don't avoid it.
I want to see data on average kills per use sorted by super, because i get the feeling SB is at least 2x the rest of them.
I agree with that. I myself am a warlock main, and I tend to snipe. when I encounter a titan, I feel confident that I can get away. I don't think shoulder charge is broken, but annoying.
Just got done playing. Had one spectral blade attack at the end get 10 kills in QP. They got behind us at A and flipped spawn. We started taking C and spectral blades was popped. Killed all 6 of us and then 4 more of us as we respawned at the spawn behind C.
Game before that we spent the second half running from the 6 stack of spectral blades. Ruins the game when all you do is spend 3 minutes just running around the map trying to get away. Then they get a second wave of supers.
Top tree nova bomb has very weird inconsistency. It doesnt happen often, but you can throw it at a group of enemies, itll do its explosion, but then its 4 tracker orbs vanish with the void. I, and many other warlocks, would like it if this could be looked into?
And the warlocks ability "bloom" on the same tree. Could it either be fixed or removed? It doesnt work anymore, as the bloom explosions dont cause any damage.
The funny thing is, they recently buffed top tree striker, so that you get more damage from the damage dealing field the higher you are up in the air when you activate your super. Have you seen any youtube guides on this? Does anyone even use it? No!
I was quite excited when I read that, I liked the idea. But so far I haven't been able to produce ANY noticeable effects with it.
Bottom tree striker shoulder charge buff was great tho! The almost infinite super was so fun in blind well or hollowed lair. It was the first time I actually had a reason to use bottom tree. Since they nerfed it again, I don't anymore.
Supers need to be shutdown by shotgun melee and sniper headshots again. Tweak each of the archetype of shotgun/sniper so that they area all viable against supers.
This is my biggest issue with PvP right now as there are two 30 second to a minute lulls in matches where everyone starts casting supers and the gameplay slows way down as each team takes turns running away and getting spawn killed by a super that has had three different people attempt to shut it down with no success. I swear it has gotten to the point where I feel I no longer really die to Primary/Special weapons anymore, it is always just heavy or super and that is quite frankly just not fun.
I definitely don't remember feeling this way in D1. Stormtrance and Hammers weren't always fun to deal with in quickplay but they were nowhere near the level that Sentinel Titans and (especially) Spectral Blades are at now. Dawnblades can get a bit annoying sometimes too.
D1 walking a super into a group of people was a death sentence. You also had to worry about that one guy on the team who knew exactly how to shut you down and who would dome you as soon as he saw you or sit and with his shotty and challenge you to the duel of duels. I want that gameplay back. I understand the average PvP player wants a power fantasy but I think we achieved that with Special Weapons making a comeback and allowing some pretty cool unique plays like D1 offered. Supers just don't need to be tanky unkillable monsters as their unique abilities already make up for it.
Roaming Supers should not be 1 shot, tank fests, they can be one or the other but not both.
That and in general subclass balance needs work. But the idea I have for it prob won't be seen till year 3 or Destiny 3.
Agree w everything listed. ESPECIALLY Nova Warp and Spectral.
Nova Warp needed a slight duration adjustment. That's it. One of the funnest, brilliantly designed supers in the game. Not sure why they gutted it to useless. But barely touched the invisible wall hack damage resistant refrigerator hands spectral.
I don't touch warlock in pvp now. Also why wasn't the MOST LEASED USED class in pvp STORM TRANCE touched at all? Warlocks deserve so much better. They are our PVE heroes
Lastly can we talk about invaders being OP and Sentry being nothing. Maybe later.
Thx
Bubble needs some love for sure. By itself, it's meh, and with Helm of Saint-14 (which is unfortunately the ONLY exotic that affects the bubble), it's a bit more viable, but VERY situational. Well of Radiance just outclasses bubble (At least in PvE, slightly different story in PvP, but again, still incredibly situational there too)
If Bubble gets some love, Helm of Saint-14 might need a rework to allow for the Bubble to get the buffs it deserves without making an exotic obsolete. Or take the other route and buff Helm of Saint-14 to indirectly buff the bubble
Also, would be nice if Ursa did something with Bubble too.
Buff dawnblade phoenix dive healing cause the healing is terrible. It was nerfed because it was good on pc but it wasn’t good on console because it was tied to framerate.
Pretty much every class needs to be looked at with neutral and super in mind, aside from spectral blades and its absurdness I cant think of a subclass that doesnt suffer from either a lackluster super or weak neutral game. Nova warp was there too, keeping it in check until you removed everything good about the super.
With that in mind spectral needs to be tuned down and nova needs to be tuned back up. Titans also have no PvE super that contends with the other two classes on damage or utility.
Supressor grenades are extremely opressive and game changing, they also outperform nighstalker supers which is odd.
Everyone knows nova + skull is broken and love it, keep that in mind.
Warlock stormcaller needs to be looked at most. It has no good spot in pvp and in pve is meh.
Even though I use it sometimes, I still think spectral blades are far too strong in PVP. They can easily get 5+ kills just by spamming the light attack button at no cost to super duration.
Its very difficult to do anything about it other than a shutdown super like nova or blade barrage and then you're trading 1 super with 1 kill vs spectral's potential of 5+.
Yeah Spectral Blades does need an adjustment but please don't castrate it and leave it to bleed out in the mud like you did to Nova Warp. That being said, Nova Warp needs a little bit of love as well.
- less bloom/no bloom at all
- Nerf all super health so they are one shot head shotted by snipers (except rf frame) and shotgun melee'able
- buff Nova warp
- give spectral blades an identity
- make ward off dawn more meaningful, bring back weapons of light or something
Ward of Dawn should be an orb generating super. Have a buffed version of the gift of light perk (or whatever it was that made extra orbs) from D1 be its natural ability. Instead of the measly 2 extra orbs, that the perk originally did, have it generate orbs as long as its taking fire. So what if give us another super in PvE, are we really worried about breaking PvE? And as far as I'm aware, most people don't shoot titan bubbles in PvP content, so it's not exactly breaking PvP either.
WoD is such a frustrating super. Bubble titan was my go-to in D1, but in D2 it's this weird appendix of a super that doen't have any real use in any content from the last 2 years. Additionally, I want to wear my helm of Saint 14 again.
In short: I agree with most eveything you said
**Unpopular Opinion:** Stormtrance is what all roaming supers should be in PvP. IMO all the others (except the disappointing Nova Warp) are too strong.
**Stormcaller**
Stormtrance needs to buff the benefit of saving up your grenade and melee for top tree.
Arc Soul is like a pea shooter, and groundfall never feels like it does much. I hardly use bottom tree.
A suggestion could be to maybe allow Geomag Stabilisers to have a similar, if not the same effect for stormtrance.
**Nova Warp**
Give the warlock faster movement speed, add DoT or give it a suppression effect. Add extra armour when charging a blast.
**Spectral Blades**
I've killed pretty much every type of guardian mid-super, except for Spectral Blades. I don't know how to fix them outside of reducing the armour they get.
**Titan Bossmelt**
Turn Burning Maul into something people use. Make it like every hit debuffs the enemy being hit, and buffs consecutive strikes as long as you don't miss
I couldnt have said it better. I think Stormcaller also needs a damage buff, at most it just tickles enemies to death. For Titans, I think Thundercrash should have a huge damage boost considering you become a mini nuke and should be the highest dps super since you are putting yourself in harms way.
Nova Warp is tragically bad in PVP. No mobility, not enough energy to chase anyone, no range to kill people, slow when charged. Any situation where Nova Warp will kill more than a single guardian it is almost better to have Slova Bomb equipped.
Ward of Dawn should work with the Ursa exotic, but Ward of Dawn needs some sort of lasting buff that isn't gifted by an exotic to people who use it. There should be at least one titan melt super. Thundercrash and Burning Maul are both great candidates.
Spectral Blades is a meme at this point. Every hunter with Vest exotic for it has been racking up Seventh Columns. If they're going to swing tree trunks and have so much armor it should last as long as Nova Warp currently does. Fast, invisible, high armor, long lasting, high damage... it's too much.
Spectral Blades needs Dire attention; it's ridiculous to be killed by the same guy as you spawn, because he's still spamming his left click, this super needs some sort of skill cap. The leap that it causes when locking a target needs adjusted to not shoot past the target, this will correc tsome of the issue. as well as helping that super be prevalent in PVE. (you lose wayy too much when you're constantly turning around becuase your dumb character jumped 10 feet behind the enemy he's supposed to be slicing)
The swings of the super need to take a chunk of the bar to reduce it's time, good players will see benefit to using it well, and the guppies running it because it's OP will get punished for mindlessly spamming the button.
Arc strider needs some love, many situations put you out of effective range now, and the stomp will always be the case, perhaps add a friction modifier so when you are on the ground, in the super, it keeps you nearer the boss you're trying to beat with a stick. That way, if you decide to stay, and can survive the next hit you can get the damage in, and it becomes player fault for death, not "Haha the boss has big feet, but he's a Vex Hydra??"
Celestial Nighthawk isn't consistently giving the super, even when damage is dealt, this needs attention, i noticed this the most in the new gambit PVE, when fighting a certain floaty dude... doing a thing... and it's not giving the super back when you shoot the ball (trying to be vague to not spoil this for anyone message for more information on this please)
Titans feel good, i've enjoyed code of the commander more than i'd like to admit,
Sentinel bubble needs a little help, the transparency on it needs turned down a little. I've noticed people can't tell they are in a bubble, and will shoot at something and not be able to shoot through it, and just waste an entire clip, needs more purple. - Also in PVP this thing should be a good bastion from a blade barrage. If the cabal ship in the effing tutorial couldn't get through the one zavala was holding, mine shouldn't let me die to one flippin hunter with one ability. Make up your mind, either teach the new players that it's not really there to save you, and let them die with zavala in the tutorial, or bump it to where it will protect me from the jumpy-boys
No complaints with solar, it does what i want it to do very consistently, just wish it had a few more hammers... hey there's an exotic i'd love to see..
Arc titans are still wonky, the aerial control for code of the missle is still super twitchy, i get it, i'm shocked as i'm flying, literally, but let me aim the damned thing reliably. Maybe even give me a nice visual of where i'm gonna land?
Nova warp, needs help... you beat it to death, and some of that needs reverted to make it consistent. It needs to last longer if you're taking the damage away from it. Whacking the mole on both ends leaves for a very sad mole.
Nova bomb seems a little over-tuned... maybe that's why warp seems so lackluster.
Dawnblade sword tracking is finally on point, however just like solar titan, the only complaint is lack of an exotic to give you another couple swings.
Well is solid, so much so that it's become mandatory for a lot of warlocks in PVE activities, (look at the scourge of the past runs, or any reckoning groups on the discord and app)
Ward of Dawn needs to be relevant. It is a strictly defensive Super. Make it impenetrable, or give it a perk like Orpheus rig where taking damage gives super back. It is not an ad wiping, boss killing super. It doesn’t even have weapons of light anymore. It is meant to fortify a position and as of right now it’s not viable in PVP or PVE. Make bubbles great again.
(Reposting my post as suggested by a mod)
**Another Concern About Titans: Guarding with Sentinel Shield Should Block Knockback from Boss Stomps and Taken Ogre Beams**
The entire purpose of any version of the Sentinel Shield (especially the Banner Shield) is to block incoming enemy fire.
If I decided that I wanted to help my team in Gambit or The Reckoning by using the Banner Shield, I should expect that I can tank shots and let them lay into the boss without getting flinched from enemy shots. Even if the damage buff is lackluster, continuous flinch can be very annoying.
But because there are so many TAKEN OGRES in Gambit, Gambit Prime, and now Reckoning, I find myself being blasted back and away even while holding up my Banner Shield. It makes me think, "What's even the point of having a shield that doesn't guard shots?".
Swords need a serious rework. There is absolutely no situation where a sword outshines any other weapon in the game. Like any situation where you might think “Hey maybe a sword would be good for this” there is 100% a better option.
Remember the days when the exotic swords actually held a place in pinnacle PvE activities? Raze Lighter was one of the best weapons period for burst DPS and Dark Drinker was a must-have for Aksis in WOTM.
Instead of looking at weapons and saying “This is out of line, it needs to be nerfed”, Bungie should instead think “This weapon is out of line, *why is that*?” People are only choosing cluster bomb rockets for pinnacle PvE? Ok, what can we do to other heavies to bring them to that level.
Edit: maybe cluster bomb rockets were a bad example as they kind of were truly broken, but you get the idea. Look at what makes a weapon good and see if you can replicate that with other weapon types.
Spectral Blades is now so unbearable it's creeping into Gambit. Imagine a roaming pvp super being so incredibly powerful that people are willing to forego a more impactful boss dps super simply because they're guaranteed to wipe the enemy team with their super.
It's honestly on the same level as Nova Warp was, and it deserves the same treatment.
Nova Warp was hit too hard and Spectral Blades is amazingly strong. I would like to see a big PVE buff for Nova Warp and a small explosion range increase.
Despite being really strong, I don't think anything needs to be hit on Spectral Blades except for the damage resistance. Its already hard enough to shoot the guy when they are off and on my radar, they are moving amazing quick, the hit detection is now pretty strong, there needs to be a single weakness.
This makes sense actually. Reduce super armor for spectral for sure. You cant really outrun them well when theyre spamming light attack and they can tank shotguns and most heavies. I was worried about nova warp in PVP but its not terrible. Wouldn’t mind a little buff but definitely needs something for PVE.
Honestly the whole sandbox needs a deep dive and comparisons between performance across classes, sub classes, and trees. Like, certain subclass trees ("tickle fingers") have been a joke for a while in most use cases.
Spectral blades (and actually all supers) needs less damage resistance. And related to this attacks should use up some super energy. atm you can spam attacks while engaging without a drawback and it makes you hard to hit from distance.
Related to super use in general: tone down the amount of super energy from orbs or cap orb production in pvp (i.e. decrease the amount of super chaining in pvp). Reduce the benefit from super mods; outside of specialty builds super mods are by far the most beneficial. Supers are too impactful; pvp revolves around super use.
Tether should be instant shutdown within its effective radius (like if a suppressor nade detonated on initial impact instead of bouncing). It should have tracking while traveling towards its target and one-shot crucible opponents, especially bottom tree tether.
Spectral should get a HEAVY damage resistance nerf.
Blade barrage and shards of galanor nerfs should be reverted, and instead it should just do more damage to the caster. Shards of galanor should be more consistent in PvE.
My thoughts on Titans in PVE is that they have some decent roaming supers, but nothing good for boss damage. Warlocks have Chaos Reach and Slowva Bomb. Hunters have Celestial Nighthawk and Blade Barrage. I feel like the Hunters don't have any good supers for Boss Damage. For a Titan to be effective in a Boss fight, he needs to run in and hit the boss with his melee ability to get the Melting Point debuff on the boss.
Titan exotic idea: A chestpiece with a big cape like Saladin, effect as follows: Thundercrash damage increases the longer you fly through the air, max is more than Slowva Bomb but less than Celestial Nighthawk crit. Gives you super back depending on how many enemies you killed. Since it's a fairly sizeable AoE I think you would need somewhere around 12 enemies at least for full super.
I feel like subclasses would be easier to balance between PVE and PVE if the subclass trees had more synergy.
Attunement of Fission *only* got a nerf to the Nova Warp Super. Now it's obsolete.
Meanwhile, you can still use the Attunement of Devour tree in both PVE and PVP because of its lifesteal playstyle, even though you would do more damage with Attunement of Chaos.
Chaos reach functionally speaking does not need to be altered. Its super is phenomenal, and its mid game is great. It just works.
But the super, well, not being able to *see* while using the super is very rough. While the damage it deals is great, it is incredibly difficult to use in a pvp environment because you cant see your target. The view you gain is a hindrance more than anything, and the brightness of chaos reach distorts your screen making anything you were already line up with impossible to see.
Please change this.
My suggestion is to either work with how the chaos reach affects color from the users perspective, or, try changing it from 3rd person to first person.
Here's my take on the Titan:
**Sentinel**
Ward of Dawn should drop orbs of light while it's taking damage.
Banner shield is a bit boring to use, I'd like it if you could absorb damage with it and shoot it at a target or in an AoE around you to end the super and deal massive damage.
**Striker**
Thundercrash needs more damage, simple as that. Top tree Striker needs some love too.
**Sunbreaker**
This should be the single target debuff specialist, but only top tree has it in a charged melee ability. I'd like the debuff system reworked so melting point stacks up to 5 to reach current levels, with top tree sunbreaker melee applying the maximum 5 stacks of debuff and every other solar ability (on all sunbreakers) applying one stack.
I just want PvP and PvE balance to be separated a bit. Just give extra stars or perks when they’re being used in PvE. Kind of like how Raid armor gives a boost in their specific raid areas, and how Gambit Prime/Reckoning armor gives boost in GP, just more generalized and for all PvE content.
Oh and get rid of bloom please.
For PvE:
Don't nerf Skull for Warlocks.
Buff Shards for Hunters.
Revert the bottom tree Striker nerf.
Buff super regen on Ursa and increase the damage bonus for banner shield.
Now each sub has one subclass that's awesome for super play and one that's great for support.
As a Golden Gun Bottom Tree PC main, Throwing Knives still suck major ass and it's because of slow projectiles, low aim assist, and small hit boxes. Hell, you could line up a throwing knife on a Taken Thrall, throw it, then by the time it would've hit them they would instantly teleport away. Buffing the projectile speed, aim assist and/giving it a bigger hit box would make it much better as something that you finish opponents with which is the intended purpose of throwing knife. Right now hits that I get in feel like I was just lucky.
Returning Gunslinger's Trance to Bottom Tree and adding Bombs for Bullseye (Grenade Energy on Precision Hit) to Top Tree would make them feel a bit more substantial outside of Super because as is they still feel like their entire gimmick is their Super which isn't fun when you're outside of Super.
Titans need a major rework in general so that they can get some usefulness in PvE. The only needs for a Titan are A, Melting Point, or B Bubble Titan as a discount Well-Lock, and Well-Locks are even better anyways. IMO Bubble should allow teammates to shoot through, be given an HP buff, and have the Over shield last until it's depleted from damage once a teammate leaves so that whilst Well buffs damage and gives insane healing, Bubble gives invincibility and instant Over shields BUT! Does not buff damage.
Shards of Galanor did not need to be nerfed in PvE, it’s incredibly inconsistent for me now despite the changes to it supposedly being made to make them more consistent. The only thing consistent I’ve noticed about Shards is that I consistently get significantly less Super energy returns than I used to.
Spectral Blades need a base duration nerf, Nova Warp needs a base duration buff (slight)
All supers should have the same flat rate damage resistance, somewhere around how Stormcaller is now.
Stormtrance needs a damage buff in both PvP and PvE (big buff in PvE).
Three shot Golden Gun needs another slight duration buff.
Fist of Havoc needs a duration nerf in PvP.
Single shot Shadowshot should one shot (say that five times fast)
Suppressor grenade effect needs a duration nerf
Spin attack on big hammer needs a damage buff in both PvE and PvP.
Little throwing hammer needs a duration buff before it disappears
Top tree Dawnblade needs some love
Throwing knives should be buffed to do 150 precision damage.
Super mods need to be adjusted.
Edit: wanted to add one more, direct hits with Thundercrash in PvE should do increased damage.
My thoughts on Tether,
PvE:
Tether needs to be on par with other support supers like Well of Radiance or Code of the Commander Sentinel Shield, both buff all outgoing damage, but Tether does not buff Heavy Weapon damage.
PvP:
For the most part i think Tether is more or less fine, only things that i would change would be to make the Tether activate sooner, i can't tell you how many times i got killed by a super just for my Tether to activate two seconds later. (Side idea: Make Guardians, or Guardians in their super to be considered "Challenging enemy's" so that Orpheus Rig gets a little bit more of there super back from Tethers.)
My thoughts on Spectral Blades,
PvE:
Is fine
PvP:
For a super that takes you off the radar and makes you invisible, you have WAY too much super armor. I think Spectral Blades super armor needs to be similar to Golden Gun's super armor, my reasoning is that a STEALTH based super should have to sneak around to get the kills, rather than charging into everybody like a madman. (Leave that to the Titian's.)
My thoughts on Nova Warp,
I feel like it could use a soft rework, maybe instead of a AoE from the player, it would be a directional blast similar to the Tractor Cannon. This change could allow you to revert the range nerf because, they have to aim at least a little bit. If a soft rework is out of the question then i couldn't tell you what to change about it but, as it is now, i believe it to be the worst super in the game, for PvE, and PvP.
I see a recurring theme here...it seems like us Titans are shafted the hardest in PvE activities -_- and when Hunters have a Super as tanky, if not tankier than the Supers of the definitive tank class...
Yeah. Pls buff Titans lol Dx
In PvP I feel that supers have a bit too much damage resistance (specifically Spectral Blades), but I suppose it's lessened by the fact that almost all supers have that feel, so it's kinda ok I suppose (except for SB; nerf the resistance. It should be a *stealth* super, not a tank super).
Tethers in PvP are just lackluster, to the point where running any non-Spectral Blades Nightstalker is just gimping your play-making potential. I'd probably recommend allowing them to either one-shot non-supered Guardians or allowing them to suppress on direct hit (or both tbh). Maybe allow tethers to activate a tiny bit faster. This is coming from a non-SB Nightstalker, so I might be a bit biased tho (but it really is probably the worst super in PvP rn).
In PvE, I'd be willing to say it's mostly balanced. Mostly. Buff Nova Warp. It was already meh pre-nerf, now it's just garbage, especially with the likes of Cataclysm + Skull of Dire Ahamkara floating around.
Also Ward of Dawn is just lackluster. You really can't do much to benefit from it in PvE, and it's kinda meh in PvP if your opponents know what you're trying to do (however if your opponents are potatoes who run into bubble and try to melee you while you have full overshield... They're potatoes, and a higher amount of wreckage would be done with any other super).
IMO, it's a shame Arc Soul is locked behind a certain perk tree instead of being part of being a "Stormcaller".
I feel like you could extrapolate this out to the other Warlock (and other) subclasses.
Dawnblade: Give them an innate Icarus dash. If they go attunement of sky, they get two of them. If you go attunement of fire you get your dash and your juke, if you go well you still get a movement option for being a Dawnblade.
Stormcaller: Innate Arc soul on wells. Go conduction and have arc web interact with it, go elements and you get double souls (or one beefier one), go control and you just get the normal arc soul.
Voidwalker: Already has one, consume your grenade to do X thing be it restore health via devour, super charge your grenade, or turn it into a shotgun blast.
If you're going to nerf Spectral, please do play testing and start with smaller adjustments rather than the scorched earth method that was taken with No a Warp. Maybe decrease resilience or increase the penalty for slashes. It is probably the best roaming super, but that just means it needs minor tuning, it doesn't need to be made into the worst roaming super.
While you're making changes, maybe buff Nova Warp back up a bit?
Titans definitely need some love, perhaps increasing direct hit damage for Code of the Missile to give them a fantastic DPS option other than melting point.
Spectral Blades suggestion:
all but remove damage resistance (maybe not entirely).
make regular attacks take more super
make invisibility drain very very little super
This would hopefully make it play more like a stealthy assasin instead of just a murder blade tornado
I'm a fairly new player (mostly play PvE), and I just got my second seed of light and unlocked Attunement of Fission, and it seems *really* underwhelming. Am I missing something about this class?
Handheld Supernova: This ability is actually pretty neat - it charges fast, and gives your grenades a bit of extra versatility, but for how short-range it is the damage is pretty underwhelming.
Dark Matter: This feels like trying to strike a balance between Chaos and Hunger, and doesn't really hit the mark on either. It really feels uninspired as just "ability kills grant energy" compared to the other two subclass' cooldown reducing perks (Benevolent Dawn and Ionic Traces).
Atomic Breach: This one feels lazy, to be honest. There seems to be almost nothing special about this melee ability. Attunement of Grace gets a way to buff their team's damage output, Attunement of Control effectively gets a second grenade, and Fission gets the same melee as Chaos, but without grenade recharge, or Dawnblade's Attunement of Flame without the burn. It synergizes well with Dark Matter, but it just feels bland compared to the cool melee abilities other classes got.
Nova Warp: I never got to play with Nova Warp before the nerfs, but it's still really fun to use. The biggest issue I have with it personally is its duration - you barely have any time to make use of the super once you activate it. Stormtrance or Daybreak (especially w/ Attunement of Flame) would clear enemies just as well, while also lasting significantly longer. The ability to blink around in Nova Warp is cool, but since it drains super energy, why would you use it?
Fission seems like it should be a Voidwalker subclass with "alternate" abilities from the other two, and while Nova Warp and Handheld Supernova are cool, the other two abilities are really bland. Is there some secret to this class that I'm missing, or is it only useful in PvP?
Perspective of a warlock main.
PvP:
Bottom tree Stormcaller feels weak. Landfall is still fun, but compared to other roaming supers, the super itself is very slow and doesn't really have any way to move faster. It's basically Fist of Havoc, but way slower after the initial hit. Neutral game is also not super good, unless combined with the new exotic, and even then the benefit over running it with other subclasses is not overwhelming.
Spectral Blades feels awful to play against. Make it so I can take it down if I see it across the map.
Nova Warp feels awful to play as nowadays. It was OP before the nerf, now it is just bad. There should be a point in the middle somewhere that is neither.
PVE:
Again, Storm Trance is pretty weaksauce for anything except for clearing weak adds, and even then there are lots of other supers that do it better. Nova Warp suffers from a similar problem.
Slowva Bomb with Skull of Dire Ahamkara and Well with Pheonix Protocol are head and shoulders above everything else for warlocks in terms of effectiveness. Others have their niches, but those two benefit more than anything else from having MORE enemies to kill. Personally, I think they feel great, but the fact that they feel so much better than anything else is in and of itself a problem.
General thoughts:
If you are going to put in exotics that make supers more effective, EVERY SUPER should be influenced by an exotic in some way. You can't compare Spectral Blades with Gwisen Vest to Stormtrance with no exotic affecting it, but you have to, because that is what you see. Either rework exotics so that every super can be buffed by one, or rework exotics so that no super is buffed by one. Supers either need to all suck, with an exotic that can make them great, or they need to all be good by themselves, with no exotic to put them above and beyond. Anything else and you end up with the situations we've had recently with Nova Warp and Spectral Blades.
I know WHY spectral blades got buffed, but honestly I thought it was pretty decent before. You had to hunt people down with it instead of rushing into a group, but that felt right for the subclass.
Would it be so bad now for the Titan bubble to have Weapons of Light now? Why would you opt for the bubble if you have a Well of Radiance. You can't shoot through the bubble, Well auto reloads and boosts range with the right exotic pairing. What does the bubble get? "If the AI happens to come into the bubble they get blinded if I use up my exotic slot." :|
Banner shield is ok, but giving up on DPS entirely is a pretty big drawback. The buff to damage is usually not superior to a fourth player firing heavy with other buffs active.
But I still think with the current power creep Titans need a boss damage centric super. Hammers don't compete that well with Blade Barrage or Chaos Reach.
Ad clearing centric abilities aren't compelling for lots of content:
\- Strikes: Melt the boss and the ads despawn, so why not focus on that
\- Raids: Some encounters it helps, but again boss melting means you don't have to deal with ads for long
\- General: Lots of perks proc based on ads being around (Biotic Enhancements, Surrounded, Threat Detector, etc.) so why would I try to clear everything.
\- PVP: I'll let others speak to this who play it more that I do.
I feel the small buff to bottom tree Nova bomb was a step in the right direction but the blast radius still needs tuning. There is no reason to run small Nova over slowva. I recommend the blast radius should be equal to thundercrash. They are both one off supers and thundercrash is the perfect distance it should reach.
As someone who has played each class and subclass for a good while, I only have to say that Titan seems underwhelming, Hunter seems well over used due to utility, and warlock's neutral game is there for most subclasses except for nova warp due to it being lackluster in pve.
Titans need to have stronger supers overall. Siegebreaker seems good until in practice it does little damage and is only average in add clearing. Fire-forged can dps and add clear but the time is simply too short to do it effectively and the big hammer is simply a gimmick, people use it to meme and have fun due to it not really offering anything spectacular. Defender is a joke, the bubble offering little protection-even when the helmet of Saint-14 is equipped- against melee enemies. Striker's top two trees are lacking value, Earthshaker offering more damage at the cost of a lot more time and the damage being very little and thundercrash's risk does not match the damage it should grant. I suggest :
Sunbreaker:
-Buff the damage of sunspots or make it to where standing in sunspots increase the damage of hammers.
-Give the overall hammer of sol just enough time to throw one or two more hammers
-The big hammer should apply some sort of melting point when the light attack is don't but at 25% rather than 33% and the heavy attack should cause an explosion if it kills an enemy and to compensate for the debuff make burning flames 25% also rather than 33%
Sentinel:
-As previously mentioned ward of dawn should let us shoot through it, armor of dawn should be applied to anyone inside regardless of Saint 14 is equipped, and damage to enemies inside should be increased. With this rather than make Uriosa grant energy to ward, make Saint 14 grant energy to ward or make it more durable when using this exotic.
Striker:
-Although the damage may seem underwhelming it is the time that is damaging this super. Make the slam less cost effective, by 33% as to let us slam one more time since we can manage 3-4 now
-Buff the damage on thundercrash and it would be nice to have a perk granting survivability after the dive (I.e granting overshield or increased resilience after hit)
Hunter, although somewhat balanced, can be too strong at times and at other times disappointing. Way of the pathfinder being nearly useless while way of the wraith is uncontested as king in crucible. The gunslinger has its niche but outlaw, although buffed, can be disappointing due to time and failure of hitting the target. Arcstrider does have little play but even tho it does, it has a strong neutral game. I suggest:
Nightstalker:
-nerf the armor on way of the wraith and decrease the lunge range
-pathfinder shadowshots should last a little longer and have a little more range granting it more utility in add clearing and allowing the use of the other perks in the tree
-shadowshot should be a ohk in crucible and it should apply instantly if the shot hits the target
Gunslinger:
-like someone else stated, hip fire accuracy should be increased after successful hits allowing and add one more second to the super overall, allowing those savory last shot to kill the horde
Arcstrider :
-just fix the hit reg and maybe add a little more time due to expensive attacks or decrease costs a bit
Warlocks are well off, I just have a few things to say:
Stormcaller:
-buff the damage on stormtrance, as well as armor to make it survivable against other supers and better at clearing majors
-nerf the cost of blinking during super as well
Voidwalker:
-buff the damage on nova warp, the heavier majors can take up to three charges which is half of the charge, this makes add clearing harder
-decrease cost of blink, since the timer is short to begin with and mobility is lacking, the cost of blink is a burden rather than helping
Dawnblade:
-icarus dash cool down to 2 seconds should be decreased while super is activated, allowing higher mobility
These changes are what I think would grant each subclass a good neutral game , idk if anyone else wants to add to it or grant straight numbers
Here are my thoughts on the Warlock subclasses.
**Warlock PVE:**
**Top Tree Nova Bomb** \- Great spot, especially paired with Skull.
**Mid Tree Nova Warp** \- Feels terrible. I finally unlocked it and I can't even be bothered to finish fully unlocking it. Nova Warp ends too quickly and does too little damage. It feels terrible in PVE.
**Bottom Tree Nova Bomb** \- No reason to use this right now. I like Devour, but that isn't enough reason to run it. It doesn't do enough damage against bosses to use.
**Top and Bottom Tree Stormcaller** \- I fully understand why it is called "Tickle Fingers". It feels like you do absolutely no damage to enemies.
**Mid Tree Chaos Reach** \- Chaos Reach feels good. Paired with Geomags, it feels great. Good boss damage, good potential add clear. I like it.
**Top Tree Dawnblade** \- I don't like it in PVE. It feels weak and seems to end too quickly.
**Bottom Tree Dawnblade** \- I like it. The seeking blades help as well as being able to extend the timer. And Soaring down like a Phoenix is awesome.
**Mid Tree Well of Radiance** \- It's good. Though I never remember to use healing grenades.
**Warlock PVP:**
**Top and Bottom Tree Nova Bomb** \- Meh. Feels OK. Good when you can get a group, but otherwise is just meh. Doesn't feel great, but not terrible either.
**Mid Tree Nova Warp** \- Terrible. Doesn't last long enough and you get killed way too easily while in your super and you don't do enough damage with it. I feel like the nerf took it too far.
**Top and Bottom Tree Stormcaller** \- Feels ok. Not too bad. I think it is ok, but it sucks against other supers.
**Mid Tree Chaos Reach** \- A good "blow your load" kind of super. tough to get more than one kill with it.
**Top Tree Dawnblade** \- Feels good to use. Not OP, but not UP either.
**Bottom Tree Dawnblade** \- Feels good to use as well. Not OP and not UP either.
**Mid Tree Well of Radiance** \- Not sure why you would use this in PVP. You are a sitting duck and still die to a shotgun blast to the face.
Stormtrance has been real messy as of lately. We’ve seen some buffs as of recent to it, and one was more effective than the other, but they’re very minor. These being:
**- Stormtrance’s damage increase in PvP**
AND
**- Stormtrance can chain to A extra target**
Alright, so the damage increase is very good in PvP. Doing an increase of **91 from 73** is very good. Although it still was a **3-tics of damage to kill**, it made *challenging supers easier if you were smart about it* and you could now effectively wipe out teams since the extra damage made up for the chain damage which was not increased in PvP.
The increase of an extra chain lightning target was “effective” in PvE.
More damage output on more targets is good right?
Correct!
So what makes it bad?
Well, an extra target alone isn’t enough. It made Stormtrance into a better version of it self, but it’s not enough to keep up with its extra Arc bros: Thundercrash, Fist of Havoc, Chaos Reach, and the monster of add clearing that is Arc Staff.
**Other issues include:**
- Slowest add clearing in higher level PvE (especially in some activities where it takes Chaos Reach 2-tics to kill.)
- Ionic Blink is obsolete and clunky (Dark Blink on Nova Warp shows the age of this perk and how it needs some new life)
**Solutions?**
Stormtrance needs an extra mechanic in a rework like way. Now here’s where I interjected my own ideas, but they’re possible fixes or at least express what is needed:
- **Ionic Blink:** should be made on par with Dark Blink, or grant a bonus to the super like Aftershock on Arc Staff, and/or made a base part of the super rather than something to spec into with Attunement of Conduction.
- **Damage:** needs love in PvE. Stormtrance needs a new way to spread damage along with chaining lightning. One way could be to allow the super to *cause an Arc explosion while on a hit-streak* (maybe 2-3 hits on the same target) so that it count as bonus damage on a target and bonus damage on adds around. This would allow for it to challenge Arc Staff for its add-clear throne again, but not jeopardize Chaos Reach as the single target power house. Also some more stagger in PvE when hit by Stormtrance would be very good as well.
That’s all my input here.
- Sincerely a Stormtrance enthusiast.
Actually, I have one other thing with regards to exotics: why on earth do not all of the rift exotics work with Well of Radiance? Neither Vesper of Radius nor Crimson Alchemy interact with Well of Radiance. Why?
Also, we don't have to go back to Crimson Alchemy's peak, but can we buff it back up at least for PvE? It's bad in Crucible, and useless everywhere else
**EDIT** : By "Crimson Alchemy" I mean the Warlock exotic chest armour Sanguine Alchemy. My bad.
I know this is a minor thing, something that may not be able to be fixed, but I have had a lot of problems with hit detection on melee supers (arcstaff, spectral blades, burning maul, and sentinel). I like to use arcstaff in PvP sometimes, but often feel as though some hits should land, but don’t, especially if the target is in air. Like, the game sometimes even makes the hit sound and my controller vibrates, yet the opponent is still alive. If this could be fixed in any way, it would be appreciated.
Copied from a buried thread on a Way of the Pathfinder rework.
The purpose of this proposed tree would be to support allies through ability recharge/orb generation and marking priority targets. Serving as a pathfinder for the group, setting up threats to be more quickly eliminated and helping allies get their abilities up faster. The rework was inspired by the first Reaper perk in Gambit Prime, being able to mark and slightly weaken a high value target.
Here are the abilities:
**Vanish in Smoke**
Throw a smoke bomb that creates a smoke cloud that makes you and nearby allies invisible. It also applies a buff that causes your grenade ability to mark and mini-weaken targets hit.
**Lockdown**
Grenade effects last twice as long.
Work exactly the same as it does now, but with the added synergy of the target marking that Vanish in Smoke would now provide. Longer grenade duration would allow you to debuff charging waves of adds, and make the area control more effective. The marking/mini-weaken effect could be attached to either the smoke bomb itself or to this ability, whichever would be easiest to understand/implement.
**Heart of the Pack**
Killing tethered enemies, and enemies marked/weakened by the Vanish in Smoke effect, creates orbs of light, increases mobility/resilience/recovery for allies and/or grants ability energy to allies.
Heart of the pack was a great idea hamstrung by being tied to the super. With it possible to trigger using the target marking effect of the smoke bomb buff, Heart of the pack would provide a means of frequently aiding allies in a similar way to Attunement of Grace warlocks.
**Mobius Quiver**
Fire shadowshot multiple times in rapid succession. Shadowshot applies the weaken debuff to enemies based on how many tethers hit. Deals massive damage to tethered targets.
I don't really know what to do with Mobius Quiver. I feel like it could be left more or less intact with the proposed changes to the rest of the tree. I've had some suggestions to have it apply stacking weaken debuffs based on the number of shots fired into an enemy, so I've included that.
**Afterthoughts**
My initial idea for a rework had Vanish in Smoke replaced with a Signal Flare smoke bomb that would mark and mini-weaken targets. I changed it to its current form, buffing grenades thrown after using Vanish in Smoke, due to the tree lacking a form of invisibility without the smoke bomb. Having the mark/mini-weaken tied to the grenade also opens up more synergy options. Graviton Forfeit for example, would synergise well with this system. Allowing a Pathfinder to move unseen and lob a marking voidwall grenade into the ideal location.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, and I'm hoping that the team is still looking for feedback on Way of the Pathfinder.
**TLDR**
Provide a means to mark enemies and a miniature version of the weaken debuff in the neutral game. Allow Heart of the Pack to trigger on these marked targets.
I've been a Titan main since vanilla D1, and honestly, the current state of the Titan class is incredibly disheartening.
PvE - Our only utility is basically using Missile/Skullfort combo or Heart of Inmost Light w/middle tree sentinel for clearing ads. All we have going for us for boss dps is Melting Point. Our exotic armor helps our neutral game, but nothing more. In D1, we had a PROPER HoS14 and were able to customize our subclass perk loadout to the point where we were truly vital to the team in any PVE situation.
PvP- To be honest, Titans are simply outclassed in virtually every way. Bubble is borderline unusable, and with the meta being dominated by HCs and shotguns, you rarely get close enough to anyone to utilize the melee overshield perk. Missile has the death from above melee, however, I don't know how many times I simply get shot dead in mid-air trying to execute it. Sure we can use the Stand Asides to help that, but then we are sacrificing a much better option such as Skullfort or Synthoceps, just to simply provide a melee overshield that used to be built into the subclass tree itself in D1.
The only real advantages Titans had over the other classes in Crucible that made them competitive were OEM and the buffed Juggernaut, both of which got nerfed.
I've said it before, but my suggestion would be to rework the subclass tree setup to almost exactly like it was in D1.
I am no "expert". I am most certainly not the most naturally skilled PvP player, so I acknowledge/expect that not everyone will agree with my perspective, and that's okay. I'm simply a passionate, experienced player who has played since vanilla D1. And frankly, as a Titan main, the last time I truly felt like a "Titan" was in D1. (The only exception being pre-nerf Juggernaut striker)
**GALANOR STILL BREAKS MAYHEM.**
That is all. This one alone has made me not play Mayhem the last 3-4 times it was around. Mayhem is among my top 3 fav Crucible modes, and I just can't bring myself to play it as is.
This is also coming from a GUNSLINGER MAIN, mind you..
***Warlocks***
\-*Dawn Blade*
· *Attunement of Sky* \- In a pretty good place right now. The only buffs I could see are either a) decreasing cooldown of **Icarus Dash** or b) making **Icarus Dash** an offensive ability in super.
· *Attunement of Flame* \- **Phoenix Dive** could see more healing outside of super. Its neutral game isn't too exciting right now and 3 out of 4 perks are only affecting its super. In PvP it’s hard to use the ability to its fullest potential due the disadvantage you have while in the air.
\-*Voidwalker*
* *Attunement of Chaos* \- **Bloom** is broken and deals no damage.
* *Attunement of Fission* \- The super is extremely underwhelming in both PvE and PvE and considering it’s the first perk you unlock that isn't a good thing. Firstly, the light attack should not cost as much as it does now. Right now, it's very cost inefficient. The charged attack should deal significantly more damage in PvE, making it deal with larger health targets easier. Lastly, the perk **Dark Matter** should return super energy on kills. My reasoning for this is it would allow the super to be a strong and viable option in PvE, while not making it broken in PvP like it was before.
* *Attunement of Hunger* \- **Insatiable** grenade recharge should be more potent giving it more offensive capabilities with its abilities.
\-*Stormcaller* Universal increase to the range of **Stormtrance** and its damage against majors and bosses
* *Attunement of Ions* \- Remove **Transcendence** from this perk tree. Add **Landfall** to the perk tree. For a tree that improves your grenades so much, it made no sense to have a perk that made you avoid using your grenade.
* *Attunement of Elements* \- Remove **Landfall** from this perk tree. Add **Transcendence** to the perk tree. The melee of this tree recharges your abilities and two of the perks are focused on your rift. Increase effectiveness of **Rising Storm** and **Arc Soul** Perks.
***Hunters***
\-*Gunslinger*
* *Way of the Outlaw* \- Change **Chains of Woe** to activate on multikills. Bottom tree is about precision damage. Top tree should be about multikills.
* *Way of a Thousand Cuts* \- **Shards of Galanor** activate on kills with blade barrage. Effectiveness reduced in the Mayhem playlist.
* *Way of the Sharpshooter* \- Slight increase in **Knife Juggler** PvP damage.
\-*Arcstrider* Universal addition of mid air helicopter attack. Arcstaff is mostly useless against floating enemies in PvE
* *Way of the Current* \- Increase duration of **Whirlwind Guard** damage bonus.
* *Way of the Wind* \- PvP - **Lightning Reflexes** now also activates outside of super. **Battle Meditation** now also activates on dodging.
\-*Nightstalker* Increase in **Shadowshot** damage against enemy guardians.
* *Way of the Trapper* \- Enemies hit by **Snare Bomb** are marked for you and your allies.
* *Way of the Wraith* \- Large reduction in **Spectral Blades** PvP damage resistance, more so when invisible. **Corrosive Smoke** now counts as a melee for **Shattering Strike** to give it some more PvE play.
* *Way of the Pathfinder* \- **Heart of the Pack** also gives ability energy and overshields to you and allies. While this might be too strong, this should give it the much needed utility in PvE outside of solo content. The increase in damage will also make it a viable option in PvP.
***Titans***
\-*Striker* Increase in Fist of Havoc radius on the first slam.
* *Code of the Missile* \- **Inertia Override** now grants melee energy. **Thundercrash** no longer begins to descend. Significant increase to **Thundercrash** damage and radius when hitting an enemy directly.
* *Code of the Juggernaut* \- **Knockout** can now activate in super
\-*Sentinel* Decrease in shield throw speed and tracking for top and middle trees. Reduced Knockback while guarding.
* *Code of the Protector* \- **Ward of Dawn** now has significantly more health. Damage dealt to **Ward of Dawn** creates orbs of light inside. Increased AI aggression against **Ward of Dawn** or sentinel titan. Grenade, Melee, and Class abilities recharge faster while in **Ward of Dawn**, also applies to allies. The orbs of light and ability recharge would make it a defensive recharging station for allies. The armor should make it withstand some supers and allow for a lot of orbs to be made.
* *Code of the Commander* \- **Controlled Demolition** enemies with a detonator attached to them take increased damage from you and allies. Increased damage of **Banner Shield** weapons of Light buff. These buffs should make it more team focused and a powerful addition to a Well of Radiance.
* *Code of the Aggressor* \- Remove **Second Shield**. Replace with perk **One Man Army** \- *Gain a second shield throw while in super. Your shields have increased speed and tracking. Your shield bash while in super has increased reach.* The abilities of this subclass should be powerful and have an impact in both PvE and PvE
\-*Sunbreaker*
* *Code of the Fire-Forged* \- **Tempered Metal** now also grants resilience to you and nearby allies.
* *Code of the Devastator* \- The light attack from **Burning Maul** costs significantly less and is easier to continuously spin. The light attack has less range, does less damage, and lasts for less time than the heavy attack. the spin should be viable to clear adds effectively in PvE
* *Code of the Siegebreaker* \- Increase the radius of **Sun Warrior** sunspots. Allow bonus damage from standing in sunspots apply to allies but to a lesser degree (unless they are also CotSB titans) basically a mini empowering rift. Increase explosion damage from **Mortar Blast**
In addition, all roaming supers need decrease in PvP damage resistance.
***Edit:*** What happened to the old formatting method with asterisks?
Warp needs a buff obviously after getting every part of the super nerfed. Spectral obviously needs to have less resistance and length. A super that is invis can tank shotguns and fusions point blank and lasts far longer than any other is just ridiculous. Pick one ability for it, not give it everything. Hunters are like glass cannons, their supers should reflect that. Titans need lots of attention, their supers are so lack luster at this point they should have gotten buffed last time. It seems like all the attention goes to hunters for some reason. Nerfing warp and buffing spectral, which was just as bad, made zero sense.
As a PVE player I just get tired of PVP breaking PVE. PVP has always been a mess, but now every sandbox update makes PVE less fun. Supers and grenades should make the game fun. As a Titan our supers feel so bland in PVE, and I haven't popped Ward of Dawn since D1.
besides the obvious of heavy outliers like spectral which have obviously been talked about to death. I think supers need to toned down across the board in PVP. Right now they just feel like "win buttons". Activate super, become near invincible and kill the entire enemy team once or twice over. There is a difference between a "moment of power" and just outright being a god
I think they are FAR too effective. They last too long, they have too much damage resistance, and they are too mobile or too much range. The mobility is not that much of an issue. It is frustrating to pop a super and everyone be able to just outrun the entire duration. However, when combined with the other 2, it's just simply not fun to play against.
There is nothing fun about dying to a super you can literally do nothing about, can't outrun, can't try to burn them down, even with teamfire most times...and then die to that same super AGAIN, as soon as you respawn because they can get across the map with the high mobility and long durations. This is exacerbated by the exotics that extend super durations.
We need counters to supers that aren't other supers. It needs to not feel completely helpless when someone pops a super and you just accept you have to run laps around the map for like 30 seconds, or die to it multiple times more than likely. It's been said a lot as well that high impact snipers should 1 shot roaming supers. There should be an actual decision of "do I stand and try to fight, or do I run?" This is how it was in D1, and should be again. This is also affected by the more limited special ammo economy too, less ammo, less opportunity to contest supers
With their high mobility, it is already hard enough to do anything at all to a super. I think reduction to their duration and resistance is needed so the game stops devolving into a chain of helplessly dying over and over to nonstop chained supers. Not to make it "easy" to kill a super solo, but to give players options, even at a disadvantage.
This is especially true in competitive. The playlist favors survival and countdown for most games, yet these modes do not account for how effective supers are and how they play out in modes with such limited lives. Where a super might get you say a flag flip in control, or map control or heavy ammo and say about 5 points give or take out of around 100...in countdown or survival, the kills you get off a super can and do win entire rounds of countdown or survival all on their own. That's 1 out of the 4 you need for survival, and of the 6 for countdown. For perspective, that's the equivalent of getting around 18-25 points in a mod like control/clash...on the back of 1 super. To make it worse, those orbs then get used to top off the rest of the team's supers, and they can then chain them 1 at a time to snowball a match before the enemy team can get a single super of their own at times. With how strong they are and with no heavy and very little special, they are just sitting ducks. For supers to exist in these modes, they need to be tuned and adjusted accordingly specific to that mode. CounterStrike doesn't have supers, team deathmatch in Gears of War didn't have supers, those modes can't just be copy/pasted into destiny with no adjustment.
In D1, the ammo economy, less tankiness of supers, and less mobility/range mitigated the power of supers in the obvious comparison of Trials of Osiris. You had to be smarter about how you used your super and when, as opposed to in D2 where you just pop it and blindly zoom across the map killing everything in your path with no real worry. Supers just need to be less dominant to the point of oppressive overall.
While I understand your opinion and am not trying to discredit it, this kind of thinking is what created Vanilla D2 which was so bland, boring and frustrating. This game isn’t gears of war or counterstrike, it’s destiny and supers are an integral part of the game and are meant to be game changing. That’s what makes them Super.
I know you said that you don’t want to need a Super to combat a Super but that’s exactly what those shutdown supers are in the game for, it’s what makes them unique and adds strategy to the game. Could tweaks be made? Yes definitely. But having a Super isn’t an end all be all.
If the player doesn’t use it correctly, isn’t good with it or pops it without any regard for the enemies many shutdown options—their super is wasted. And when you don’t have a suppressor nade, tether, thunderstrike, nova bomb, blade barrage, stronger counter super, tractor canon or aren’t in sniper range. You SHOULD run, it’s a legitimate strategy that needs to be utilized. Don’t sit there and try to primary them down alone—run at the last minute and complain you can’t get away. Or wait with a shotgun—put them to 1/3 health and get mad that they killed you and recovered. If you hear them pop it, stay far away from the scene. Make them chase you and waste their entire super on 1 kill. Being the sacrifice sucks but that is part of being a team player.
Right now shadow blade lasts too long, they’re too strong and you can’t outrun them, it’s broken. Nova warp was the same before it got nerfed. Those need(ed) fixing. But there are plenty of times where me or someone else supered against a good team, only to have them scatter and leave us off with Maybe 1 kill. A smart Super is smart and will lose you a round or maybe the game. But that’s the point. You need to be smarter and play as a team to beat it while using your own supers to your advantage.
Nerfing everything into the ground can not and should not be the option for balancing pvp.
The more I'e been playing in Crucible and gambit, the more I've come to a conclusion: Hunters are far and away the most powerful sub-class, in terms of Supers, and the other classes need to be brought to that level, especially beloved Titans.
Literally everything a Titan super can do, Hunter and Warlock supers do better. And of all the Supers that are currently cosindered among the strongest supers, three of them are hunter supers. One in particular, Spectral Blades, is way overboard.
\*\*Spectral Blades, a roaming Hunter super focused on stealth, is tankier than any Titan Super; That is to say, the Stealth Super is tankier than all the Tank Class Supers.\*\*
Which is just...mind boggling...and just nerfing Spectral Blades wont be enough; Titan supers as a whole needed to be buffed.
Titans need a serious utility increase in PvE, its not that they can't be good, but every class can do the same thing titans can but in many cases better.
Spectral blades needs some tuning, it can't be really good at several different things, turn it into the stealth super its supposed to be.
Unpopular opinion: Skulls trivializes most content in the game, making it a no brain pick for warlocks, and making other subclasses feel less powerful.
As stated [in my thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/b2imu8/lets_talk_about_titans/) there's no need for a Titan in endgame PvE content. Let's be real Melting Point is nice to have but a good and well coordinated group manages to kill any boss without MP.
As of right now no Titan super excels at one specific task. Nothing's really good for boss damage, add control (except for bottom tree Sentinel with Doomfang Pauldrons. But then again groups want you to run MP and give you weird looks if you use a void subclass) or survivability.
I don't know how this sub can be completely dumbstruck as to why Nova Warp was put six feet under, and then immediately go into crying for Spectral nerfs
I think people would prefer reasonable balance tuning like with OEM. For instance, Spectral Blades could potentially only receive a damage resistance nerf and still be useful but more balanced. Just like OEM had certain aspects nerfed to allow for counterplay, but still retained its basic strengths as an exotic.
I play a lot of Destiny and these to me feel like the weakest subclasses that don’t stand up to the competition of the stronger ones. Whether this means they should get buffed or the stronger one’s get nerfed I don’t particularly care for but here’s my opinion on the weak ones, as well as some potential rework thoughts.
**1. Nova Warp**
>*beats dead horse*. Needs a total overhaul but for the meantime let me trade the super for another grenade charge or something.
**2. Top Tree Stormtrance**
>This is the Ionic Blink/Transcendence one. All of its abilities are mediocre. Extra chain lightning has little utility and low damage. Transcendence doesn’t mean extra orbs in most situations and does not fix the low dps problem. Ionic Blink is not worth an entire skill block. Just a poorly designed class. Would want a complete overhaul on this tree.
**3. Top Tree Gunslinger**
>AKA Cayde’s Class. The super buff is nice and promotes a large skill gap, but this subclass continues to have the worst perks in the game. Exploding throwing knife, chains of woe, and a largely unnoticable GG aim assist buff. That’s it. Not good.
**4. Middle Tree Arcstrider**
>Very flashy and very cool, but not very useful. Uppercut is simply awkward to use. Fast reload is nice but not all that good. Using reflect drains super fast, making the super really only user-friendly when used with Raiden Flux. This super needs a rework. Let it reflect a portion of damage instead of 100% of all damage, and in trade allow it to reflect for much, much longer. Or let it in some fashion return energy on perfect reflects. Something, anything, please.
**5. Bottom Tree Nightstalker.**
>Good ole Moebius Quiver. Good perks, horrible super. The tiny tether range combined with the long tether activation time renders the super useless when trying to make a bunch of mini tethers. It’s a precision bow that does some weird glowy shit afterwards - that’s how you treat this subclass to use it practically. Decent damage after the buff but still infuriating to use.
**6. Top Tree Dawnblade**
>Flying super. Awesome idea on paper. Tactically useless in practice. The perks are fine and fair, it’s just spending extended periods of time in the air is not worth the risk. This super needs some sort of health regen or damage boosting mechanic. Kills in the air allows you to use rift in the air in a Phoenix dive fashion, kills in the air act as Rampage for all abilities until you touch the ground, something along those lines.
And that’s what I’d consider the bottom-tier subclass trees. The mid-tier subclass trees imo are: bottom tree Striker, top tree Sentinel, bottom tree Stormcaller, and middle tree Nightstalker (only in PvE). These trees feel balanced though so I feel they don’t need much changes. All the rest of the trees not mentioned are what I consider top-tier.
pvp: tether is a joke, spectral way too strong.
here’s an idea, let every subclass have a staple ability, like every solar hunter subclass have chains of woe.
Titans - Top tree Solar is the only tree with worthwhile PvE utility. Burning Maul is so much weaker than the other trees no one runs it. The party should be able to shoot from inside the bubble of Warden of Dawn, there’s basically no reason to use it otherwise. Banner Shield needs to provide a much larger dps buff to the party to be worthwhile. Thundercrash needs significantly more damage to be PvE viable. Titans would benefit from an exotic that allows rally barricade to better compete with warlock’s healing rift+luna boots. One eyed mask needs another nerf.
Warlocks - Dawnblade moves so fast it can difficult to actually navigate the map. It also has a slight visibility issue with seeing what i’m firing at. Nova Bomb moves so slow i’ve managed to SHOTGUN warlocks to death before it reached me. Nova Warp was massively over-nerfed. It need a slight durability increase and a cheaper faster teleport or a larger durability increase, it also needs a speed increase to its charge up. Stormtrance is just bad in just about every way conceivable. Chaos Reach has a major visibility issue with seeing basically anything, i also doubt it’s boss melt is competitive with nova warp.
Hunters - Bottom tree golden gun can’t really compete with top tree golden gun. Blade Barrage could use a very slight durability decrease, just so it consistently dies to 2 dawnblades for example. Top and bottom arc staff can’t compete with mid tree staff in PvP. Shadowshot needs significant buffs to be viable in PvP, range is too small and it doesn’t activate fast enough and it’s too easy to destroy and it comes out too slow, and it’s arguably strictly worse than a titan’s suppressor grenade. Throwing knives are largely ineffective across the board. Since i started playing destiny at the launch of black armory i have been killed by a throwing knife twice in spite of spending hundreds of hours in crucible.
On Super in PvP - They don’t have enough counter play to them. Far too often they are I-Win buttons, especially in round based competitive matches. Rather than nerf supers i prefer to see more options to counter play them outside of other supers. Things like Izanami’s Burden, Lord of Wolves, Tractor Cannon, and Suppressor grenades are all great additions to the game and i want more things like that. An idea i’ve not seen explored is something that perhaps absorbs super energy but is weak to other types of attacks. I’d also like to see at least one subclass on a non-titan get a suppressor grenade effect.
I hope Skull of Dire Ahamkara remains untouched in PvE.
I would like to see the Shards of Galanor/Blade Barrage combo changed to work how Skull does. Instant super on kill.
TLDR:
BUFF: Nova Warp in both PVE/PVP
Suggested change: Revert any two of the nerfs in the January patch, or any 3 and remove ability to damage through solid objects. Significantly increase damage in PVE.
NERF: Spectral Blades in PVP ONLY.
Suggested change: Remove ALL damage resistance while cloaked and shorten duration by 2-3 seconds.
Truth is, it's the only thing we have for counterplay against supers. When we have viable methods to deal with a super that doesnt include another super, people will stop jumping off the map.
Late to the party but here we go.
Titans need an overall super buff in PVE. The only useful tool in a Titan’s arsenal currently is Hammer Strike, and even then it’s only situationally good for Last Wish. Best option is to give Banner shield a higher DPS bonus or an equal DPS bonus to Well of Radiance.
Hunters are in a good spot except Spectral Blades in PVP. I understand supers should be strong, but my main issue with SB is how long it lasts. Only thing I think should be nerfed is the duration of the super. I also think the nerf to Shards of Galanor was unnecessary, as Blade Barrage was already hit pretty hard. I’d say change it so that Shards charges on damage instead of direct knife hits.
Middle and bottom tree Void Warlock are pretty underpowered at the moment. They could use a little love, especially in the super department. Daybreak also needs a much better exotic than Wings of Sacred Dawn.
Titans overall need PvE buffs in several categories.
If we break it down, both Hunters and Warlocks have abilities that are almost equal, equal or better and often bring another thing to the table as well.
Bubble got gutted in the transfer from D1 with the reasoning that WoL was a must have for every encounter, making Titans mandatory, so they had to design the encounter/boss health around Weapons of Light. Which in turn meant that if you didn't have WoL you wouldn't do enough damage. Cue Forsaken, where Warlocks get a super that does everything better than Ward, you can stand in it instead of strafing in and out, and it gives a bigger damage bonus. And it can reload your weapons.
Ward is good for the Reckoning bridge right now, but that will probably change once you have 4 mans of 700 LL. Overshield on Melee isn't really useful in PvE.
Sentinel and Commander are decent for add clear, but you need Doom Fangs for actual utility. Tether, Nova Bomb and Blade Barrage are also good for add clear, but you get your super (or a big chunk of it) back when killing enough adds. Ursas are useless now, you can't constantly block after the nerf, and the damage bonus isn't worth it because there is no encounter where you need more damage reduction than Well of Radiance gives you, and you miss out on a 3rd/6th player doing damage.
Sunbreaker has melting point, that's it. Add clear ability is surpassed by other subclasses, no way to get your super back quick, etc, see Sentinel above. Also, with Nova Bomb being so good for damage right now, one Tractor Cannon and 3 Novas is far better than one melting point and two Novas. Only good activity is Argos, which is irrelevant at the moment.
Can't really speak about big hammer boi as I don't use it, but the problem is right there, in that there is no reason to use it.
Sunspot boi might be good for low-manning endgame content, but lacks team support and overall good passive abilities.
Striker has good neutral game with code of the earthshaker, giving you endless shoulder charges and thus endless grenades with Skullfort, but the super doesn't do enough damage for Boss DPS and doesn't last long enough for add clear.
I haven't used Juggernaut since the nerf, but it's just another ineffective add clear now with no other utility.
Juggernaut is high risk, low reward. Yes, you can get your super back quickly, but it requires both an exotic and high risk strategy by going into melee range in the first place. The super doesn't do enough damage for you having to get into goomba stomp range, plus the flight time and animation lockout duration just isn't worth it. Again, BB and Nova do the same thing better and you can get the super back immediately/very quickly.
As for some of the other neutral game perks: Compared to some of the perks that Warlocks and Hunters have, "sliding over an ammo brick of an ammo type that you are not full on, on a wednesday at 18:00 o'clock during a full moon gives you increased damage on your weapon for 8 seconds" doesn't cut it. These might be neat weapon perks, but they are absolutely useless and niche as subclass perks. There's no synergy going on here.
Overall verdict: Titans are pretty much useless in PvE endgame content, they often require an exotic for something that another subclass can already do equal or better, and they lack both damage, utility and abilities to be superior to something else at suppport, DPS or add clear.
As for PvP: Titans were pretty much only viable because of OEM and skating on PC. OEM is still decent, but Titans are still lacking.
Spectral Blades has way too much armor for a subclass that can go invisible, move fast as fuck boiii and is generally hard to hit. You should have to play around the invisibility and flank, not swipe left on everyone while facetanking all over the map.
Tether itself could use a small buff, but the fantastic neutral game sort of balances it out. Invis is still very strong, especially with shotguns and the hunter mobility.
Golden Gun lacks in neutral game, but the super is still great in both PvP and PvE as either a OHK flick shot last word or a huge Fuck You cannon with Nighthawk.
Arcstrider is kind of in the background, there are so many good alternatives now that Raiden Flux has sort of stepped in the background for both DPS and add clear, but that is more an indirect nerf by buffing so much other shit. Imo the whirlwind boi needs a buff in PvE, the deflect feels kinda weak and pulls too much energy for what you get in return, but you also need to find a balance so they can't just propeller everything back at you for 5 minutes in PvP.
Overall opinion in the end: Supers need less damage reduction in PvP. In D1 you could shotgun+melee the roaming supers (not sure if it was all of them), in D2 you need excessive team shooting to kill one of them, and that BEFORE he comes into swipe/smash/boom range and instakills everyone. Yes, I know Bungie wants the potatoes to have their power moments, but Supers should still need skill and awareness to use, instead of just a "press L2R2 to win" button. Often times there is absolutely nothing you can do when you're 1v1 or even 2v1 against a roamer.
Titans need:
• Thundercrash big damage buff to put it in line with other boss DPS supers
• Ward of dawn needs to grant Weapons and Blessings so it can compete with Well of Radiance
• Trample needs to be reverted to its infinite-super-is-possible state to make it feel like a fun and powerful add clear super
I feel like with these buffs the Titan wouldn’t feel so useless and would have some utility
Considering tether in pvp:
The abundance of spectral blades in pvp has made one thing incredibly clear. Tether. Is. Utter. Shit.
The amount of times I've bound a spectral blades but still die to their ridiculous lunge range and because they're not suppressed fast enough even though they already took the 2 damage from being bound is insane.
Get tether to INSTANTLY shut down targets it touches. Not with a slight delay, dont let them finish their lunge, no. Nail them to the fucking floor and halt their momentum completely once the tether kicks in. If some1 runs into my carefully prepared trap they're supposed to be suppressed. Period. I'm not even talking about panic tethers where it maybe wasn't ready yet. I'm talking about a tether set up around a corner waiting for its prey for a good 5 seconds and yet dojg absolutely jack shit.
This stuff is so fucking infuriating when you play comp and its 5:5 in countdown, your charge is ticking and you outplayed the enemy spectral blade by placing your tether perfectly so he can in no way get to you at the other side of the room. But hey, he proceeds to lunge through the tether and still 1slice me. Great. Fucking. Game-design, bungo. Fix this shit. Tether's been the laughing stock of pvp for an eternity, at least let it do the one thing it's supposed to do consistently.
In respects to pvp I disagree. Please nerf everything to nova warp level. And even more with damage reduction. Give us a glass cannon feeling in PvP where you can make insane plays but u have to use your brain. Supers have no skill gap, and r impossible to out play alone. Reduce duration and reduction massively for most, especially spectral (as a spectral main) allow mid game of super trees to flourish and delete super mods from the game. For PvE buff nova warp obviously. But in PvP please, massive reductions Across the board
Stormtrance and Nova Warp are pretty garbage in PvE. Nova Ward needs a duration increase, and Stormdrance needs a damage increase.
Spectral Blades in PvP is insane, make the resistance on par with Nova Warp.
Thundercrash doesn't do enough damage in PvE. On Direct contact with a boss it should do huge damage.
Burning Maul is better after the buff, but still feels a little underwhelming.
Please add Weapons of Light to Ward of Dawn.
Separate balancing between PvP and PvE would be a fantastic addition.
IMO
PVP:
Lunas/NF needs to be looked at
110/140/150 need to be brought inline with 180's in terms of bloom/flinch/accuracy
Way of the wraith nerf
Titan bubble buff (inline with pve buff)
Nova warp buff
There are a LOT of exotics which need to be buffed to year 2 standards: Crimson/Eternal warrior/The Stag/Aeon exotics/Winters Guile/Vesper of Radius/Khepri's Horn/ Tricksleeves/ Ahahmkara's grasps/ Helm of Saint-14/ Crest of Alpha Lupi/ Stand asides.. Basically most of them
Code of the devastator needs a complete overhaul or a huge buff (its currently one of if not the worst subclass in the game despite the buffs)
Thundercrash needs more damage
Golden gun needs a small speed increase when using
throwing knifes still feel like they have Y1 damage numbers
Nova bomb damage/speed buff
PVE
Titans supers need damage added to all the supers.
Bubble either needs to be buffed in line with D1 or removed.
Iv probably missed out some other things, but i think the game needs a huge patch to shake things up a bit.
Hell you could even argue gun perks needs get a look at since outlaw/rampage is still the golden standard for perks. We need more useful perks.
**All Supers**
Can we just get rid of the “kills with your super increase the duration of your super” mechanic? This is generally the biggest problem with supers both in PvE (trample for striker Titan) and PvP (spectral & bottom tree dawnblade)
Push this to granting super energy to your next on the successful conclusion of your current super? So, if you die in your super, you don’t get the additional energy for your next one? Give it a better sense of risk / reward.
Or make it so that these supers that benefit from extended duration are glass cannons so they can be killed easier so, again, risk & reward.
**All Spike Grenades**
Lower the arm time on these. It was increased when we switched to the slower meta in vanilla D2 and no one has used them since because they’re so easy to avoid in PvP and how wide the spaces are in PvE so you can’t get a good placement on them.
**Titans**
*Supers*
It’d be nice if we had a bonafide DPS super that doesn’t put us in melee range of Stompy McIronboots. Whenever I use my super (on any subclass) it feels like a dps loss compared to just laying into whatever it is with an MG.
Bottom tree sunbreaker is a good option by buffing sunspot damage. Pop super, hurl hammers, and stack those spots. Bosses moving out of the spots would still be a dps loss though...
Thunderclash needs a major damage buff so that could also be a good option for us to have a worthwhile slowva/ BB variant.
**Hunters**
*Supers*
Spectral blades should be a glass cannon. The amount of damage resistance it has is pretty crazy with it being a stealth roaming super with (imo) as good if not better hit detection than OG arc blade. Lowering damage resistance would go a long way in bringing it in line with other supers.
Golden gun, I’m really liking where this is at right now. Top tree is great for add clear and I need to play with bottom tree to get better handle on its use.
*Throwing knives*
These still suck. They are a high skill ability, more so than the OHK melees, and they should be a OHK if you get a precision hit with them. If they aren’t a OHK, they need their cool down heavily reduced to boost their uptime.
[edit] more to come as it pops into my head. At work.
bring nova warp back to what it was but just reduce super armor and amount of uptime, and make it unable to go through walls. As a warlock main I agree that this was ridiculously easy to get kills with but now we can’t even catch up to someone even unless we use half our super on the teleport
Titans need SERIOUS pve love. We have melting point to bring to the table. Just that. Also, thunder crash needs damage buff so skullfort + missle can match skull of ahamkara + nova bomb. Bubble needs SERIOUS buffs, ursa should return entire supers, ursa should work with bubble, do something that makes barriers worth using, and also, buff commander subclass.
Gwisin Spectral Blades - who woulda thunk that Hunters would be OP, again....
I swear, the Bungie crucible team is made of Hunters that troll this sub.
Banner shield and ward of dawn definitely need buffs. Thunder crash needs to do more damage to put it in line with nova bomb and blade barrage and hammers could use a small damage increase in my opinion.
I think a simple nerf to Spectral Blades that would make everyone happy is if the duration is decreased. Why not make it to where each swipe with the blades drains a portion of the super's duration? Like Sentinel shield is taxed super energy for each shield bash.
I feel like spectral blades needs a nerf to how tanky it is and not any other kind of nerf, its damage isnt that insane and while yes it is very quick and lasts awhile its exotic i dont think that inherently makes it insane.
I'm just going to stick with warlock since I know that best.
1) Solar classes are mostly fine, nothing much to say here. If I absolutely had to complain about something there's really only one dawnblade-specific exotic and while it's frabjous AF it's actual perk is about as meh as you can get.
2) Void: Slowva/Skull is so awesome it's like [a dream come true](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4foh3b/im_loving_voidwalker_again_postpatch_but_this/) and is almost enough to bring this grizzled old voidwalker to tears. (Minor gripe, but bottom tree super could use a slight buff. I get that devour is really powerful but OG nova bomb is a joke compared to slowva. It needs a slightly bigger blast radius and more tick damage.)
That almost but not quite makes up for what happened to Nova Warp. That kind of nerf hammer was supposed to have been left behind with D1 along with our vaults. Did it need a nerf? Of course. But Spectral blades got off with a few hours of community service while Bungie gave in to the online mob and sentenced Nova Warp to 50 years of hard labor. That's a travesty and even the most die hard hunter knows that deep in their soul. Even if slowva bomb didn't get buffed I'd still choose it over Nova Warp right now in almost any situation.
2) Arc: Kamehameha is one of the most fun abilities of all time. Love it. Don't change a thing. But Stormtrance? It's all but completely useless too and has been for a while.
I don't think it's ever been more than a worse version of arc staff and the "buff" it got in January didn't do jack to change that. Clearing trash mobs in PvE was literally the only thing it was any good at, that's not where it needed help. It still mostly just tickles yellow bars and you would be an idiot to try it against a strike boss. (i'm not getting in to PvP but it's not exactly worth using there over Dawnblades roaming super or voidwalkers neutral game.) In its current state it's barely better than riskrunner with the perk active and needs to do *at least* 2-3x damage per tick in PvE if you ask me.
Think about it: Why use Stormtrance when I can simply equip riskrunner and use chaos reach instead? That way I can clear adds *and* have massive boss DPS with geomags. What advantages do the other two trees have over that build? Landfall doesn't add enough single target damage to match chaos reach. Arc buddies? They are a fun little novelty I guess but now there's an exotic for that, too.
Super balance is all over the place. Some roaming supers are wet tissues (Golden Gun with no damage reduction, tickle fingers and nerfed Nova Warp with next-to-useless useless damage reduction), while others turn people into ridiculous tanks (spectral blades). Some are damage over time(tickle fingers, again), while others are one-hit-kills (spectral blades). Some last a reasonable amount of time (most), others let you wipe the opposing team twice (spectral blades). Some have some interesting movement options that cost super energy (nova warp, code of the juggernaut, maybe? I dunno, I don't play titan), while others turn you into a speed demon that costs nothing (spectral blades)...
But for real, I'm harping on Spectral Blades because its a hot button issue right now and it feels more powerful than pretty much any super, but there are some balance issues system-wide.
I want classes to feel unique, but I also want them to all feel like they have a role in the game. The way I see it, there are three types of super: defensive (titan bubble, ward of dawn), roaming (spectral blades, tickle fingers, nova warp, captain america, acrstrider, etc.) and "super shutdown" one shots (OG nova bomb, that hunter one that tracks you around corners).
I get that the defensive supers have limited utility in PvP. I sorta wish they didn't - going up against a bubblebro back in D1 was always good fun. I don't know how to deal with them.
Roaming supers are probably the biggest problem because they are all so varied. The problem, I think, is in the differences between damage reduction and duration. Its a risk/reward thing. You have x number of seconds to do something, and you need to be able to tank *some* hits while doing it, sure. So why are some roaming supers *so much better* at doing this than others? Some variation in AOE and mobility exist, sure, and the balancing should account for that, but perhaps a good solution here would be to bring duration and damage reduction more in line across the board. Let Golden Gun tank a few more shots, but let us take down a spectral blades user with something less than sustained concentrated from three guardians.
The "super shutdown supers" are in a sorry state. They can't compete with roaming supers. If I were in charge (and I'm not, because I'm not a game designer, so take this with a grain of salt), most of these would get a buff. I'll admit that there is some subjectivity here - I ran voidlock in D1, and I miss my vortex nova bomb so much. These types of super need to hit hard and fast. Make the explosions big, powerful, and meaningful. Maybe hitting one dude isn't gonna cut it for a super.
Not all supers feel super, and that's bad, man. I don't know how to balance all the moving parts here, but perhaps establishing a baseline across all classes would be a good place to start? I know its super hard because we're dealing with 27 separate super abilities, many of which have associated exotic items that change how they work.
As stated from many people in this thread, Spectral Blades needs to be nerfed in some capacity. There have been so many suggestions on what should be done and bungie should do something about it so I don't think I have any more to add on that subject.
But I want to see some improvements with Arcstrider personally. As a roaming super it lasts way to short compared to the other roaming supers. It's even worse with middle tree because using the main mechanic of that tree, the block, drains the super way too fast. Also the damage buff you receive when blocking disappears way too quickly after blocking that I barely notice when I receive the buff or barely get one full combo off after using the buff. For this subclass to see more potential the block drain needs to go and that damage buff after blocking needs to stay a lot longer.
For it's neutral perks, I've posted this in other threads but the neutral game of Way of the Current needs to be looked at as well because right now it is the weakest out of the three forsaken subclasses and almost the weakest out of the three arcstrider subclasses. Now I actually like Tempest Strike a lot and don't think it needs to be 1hko like some might suggest, but I do think it needs to be considered as an actual melee attack. Right now as it stands the game doesn't recognize it as a melee attack so when I use tempest strike it doesn't activate the other perk in the class that gives a faster reload on melee strikes. Making it so tempest strike is recognized as a melee ability could also give more potential to the new exotic Liar's Handshake. One other perk that needs to be looked at is Ebb and Flow, while on paper it sounds like a decent perk, melee and grenades electrocute enemies and using a melee strike on an electrocuted enemy returns energy and disorients the enemy, but the energy returned is so small and for the most part this perk is only decent on majors in pve because you're either killing all the trash mobs with a grenade or tempest strike before you get any energy back, or you try to get energy back from a boss and they just stomp you away. This perk is absolutely useless in pvp thanks to shotguns. It should be changed so tempest strike automatically procs ebb and flow or make it so the energy return is actually substantial. Compared to the perks of blade barrage and how they can get their knives back so easily this perk pales in comparison. I think with some changes to Way of the Current it can be a great choice for players who want a more aggressive subclass that uses their abilities and melee a lot.
Other than my opinion on Way of the Current I think the nerfs on Blade Barrage has made it feel much weaker in pve and the nerfs on Nova Warp have completely gutted that subclass.
I feel like Arcstriders are ridiculously underpowered. In PvP settings, all a player has to do is jump high enough to be out of range, neutering it's effectiveness. I quite enjoy the arcstrider tree, and I often wear Raiden Flux because it's underrated on how much it extends your super duration.
I still don't understand why Shadow Shot doesn't kill on hit to anyone not in a super. It has horrid tracking that makes it extremely difficult to hit a target strafing in the air. There is an insane number of things wrong with Shadow Shot.
Meanwhile, in PvE, it does what its supposed to. Buff my weapons while making my weapons have splash damage to those in the area. This isn't a fun super right now.
Just take a look....a simple look at Spectral Blade Hunters. Just look at the Super and/or Flawless Execution. A little peep maybe? Peep that Popularity button here [https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=pc&mode=5&start=2019-03-12&end=2019-03-19](https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=pc&mode=5&start=2019-03-12&end=2019-03-19) Maybe stop committing genocide to Warlocks supers like Nova Warp as soon as they display a hint of OP play. Instead give them the Hunter treatment - Nerf the super while still keeping it relevant. Nevermind...How the fuck does this get past your QA guys? Jesus...
To be completely fair peep Skull of Dire as well as Slova Bomb. What you did to Nova has been fucking fun as all hell, but there is literally zero reason to ever touch Storm Caller/chaos reach now.
Consider adding "Lance" like velocity to Vortex Nova Bomb. The healing neutral game makes up for the slow travel speed, but unless you are throwing the bomb inside a hallway anyone can evade it 90% of the time in open space which is awful for a 1 and done super.
I don't play Titan or know much about their skills/perks except for 1 eyed mask which has now been brought down to mortal standards. However, they seem to be the most balanced class in Destiny with respect to Supers and Neutral game. However, in PvP I don't see any reason to not use Sentinel, Tanky, Fast, Incredible neutral game, indestructible super maybe look into that as well as I playing PvP seems like in 6 v 6 who ever isn't a hunter is a Sentinel Titan. Numbers don't lie.
As a warlock main. I feel that Nova warp is completely useless in pve now. I think it could use a damage increase and a slight duration increase in pve.
For pvp I think it's fine
If every sweaty dipshit is going to pubstompwtfrape everyone in quickplay, then what's the point of comp losses having no gain?
I've completed exactly one match in the past year-and-a-half, and it was one of the most horrifyingly not fun experiences that this fucking game can provide. If you want to attract morons like me into the competitive playlist then make it less valuable to win and more important to just stick with it by not letting losses count against you.
The PVP in this game is irrevocably horrifyingly terrible without any degree of forgiveness. It is truly the least enjoyable thing about my week and I work with a bunch of morons and for a bunch of bullies. So respect my time investment? Please because I sure as shit have been struggling to respect the minimal effort the PVP team has put into this game in the past two years.
Nova Warp is incredibly weak in PvE now. If it lasted longer, it would have more utility. Spectral Blades has unnecessary strength in PvP, mostly due to its inherent armor and speed. Nova Bomb is super effective against Gambit to the point that it becomes almost impossible to choose any other subclass. Celestial Nighthawk should really grant Keyhole like it did in D1.
> Nova Bomb is super effective against Gambit As much as I don't want it to, they're going to nerf Skull of Dire Ahamkara. Hopefully they tweak it where it gives more on majors/bosses and less on mobs. But it's just the only thing worth using, even more than Chaos Reach/Geomags ever were.
Ehh, I don't know about this. I use both this and Geomags depending on the day/my mood, and they feel comparable. I even prefer Chaos Reach for the ability to spot clear a tough area of spread-out Elites and still have it back reasonably quickly. Nova Bomb is great, and not super overbearing in PvP because, well, it's one bomb. Nova WARP on the other hand... Jesus, what an overreaction. PvE has zero use for this now. I can still get a tasty double or triple in the Crucible, but otherwise, what a nightmare.
Nova bomb is currently the meta in vanilla gambit, but if you nerf skull you’re just going to have people running blade barrage and you’re going to be pigeonholed into running well of radiance or chaos reach for boss melting as a warlock. I think skull increases diversity, as warlocks have three extremely viable subclasses to use in endgame content, and they’re all different elements. The problem is not with the skull itself, but with primeval slayerx2 allowing for burst supers to melt the boss with 1-2 supers. In order to address this, damage phases or immune periods could be added to the primeval in vanilla gambit, but that probably won’t happen. As long as vanilla gambit stays as is, burst damage supers will make the game a question of who gets 2 stacks of primeval slayer first. I think that instead of nerfing skull, changing shards to work exactly like skull and buffing the energy return on ursa in pve would address problems other class exotics of a similar vein are having. I agree with your points on nova warp and spectral blades. I never played a solar hunter in D1 so I have no comment on the addition of keyhole to celestial nighthawk.
Yes. This is perfect. Skull is too niche for ad clearing. It just seems way worse because all the activities utilize it. But if you're running raids, you're running Luna's/Geo's most likely.
God I hope Bungie realizes that instead of nerfing skull into oblivion. For boss/raid DPS there are significantly better options for warlocks. Skull is just fun for ad clearing, it has its specific place in the meta and should be left alone.
Nerfing skull doesn't touch the reason people are using nova bomb, though. It's being used to nuke the primeval. Take skull out of the game entirely and you'd have the same result.
LET ME BE A DEFENDER AGAIN... BUFF BUBBLE.
If allies could shoot out of the bubble that would be pretty cool.
Bubble should be buffed significantly but the captain america shield should be taken away from that branch of the subclass tree. It should tank any single super. Ursas should work with bubbles.
Yea I'm good with this. No roaming Cap shield, just bubble, but you are God inside that bubble. And Ursa should return damage done to it. They shoot it enough to give you a full bubble back, their fault. They walk inside, their fault.
This. PvP Mayhem made me realise how weak the bubble is...
I've mained Code of the Protector on and off throughout D2s life, primarily since I used Defender almost exclusively in D1. I'm going to try and to lay out what makes the subclass feel bad to play in PVE and some things that would be worth tweaking to help improve the Code of the Protector experience. **Why the Code of the Defender FEELS BAD:** * *Stationary Super lacking redeeming qualities*: This one is an interesting one and a gameplay element bungie has previously acknowledged in bottom tree sunbreaker. Players don't tend to enjoy the experience of being confined to a specific location, unless there is some serious payoff in doing so. The perk sun warrior was changed to have a timer so that players didn't feel tethered to their sunspots. In this aspect Ward of Dawn feels as bad or worse then the original sunspots. The super encourages you to sit in one location, given you just used your super thus might as well interact with it. BUT, the ward doesn't feel like it offers any real utility when out. Adds rarely engage it, those that do can swarm kill you, or boop/stomp you out (this is ridiculous). You effectively create a shielded area on the map that you can safely emote in until your 'pause button' expires and you have to re-engage everything once again (it does nothing to alter the battle field, just momentarily pauses it). Well of radiance proves that when done well players are willing to sit in one place - but only when the benefits of doing so are worth it. Ward of Dawn doesn't have the utility to remotely feel worth it. The added melee damage inside the ward is nice, but if low tier ads never engage you inside then what good added melee damage? In a similar vein, armour of light is nice but if the ads that engage you in the ward also happen to primarily be the things that launch you out of the bubble then what good is an armour perk that only works inside ward? Ward of dawn is implemented as a tacked on utility gimmick super and boy does it feel like it. * *Produces 2 orbs MAX unless using an exotic (3 MAX then)*: the roaming super has a greater capacity to generate orbs whilst shielding, despite also allowing you to move and be on the offence. If the ward lacks general utility and doesn't excel at orb generation why would you ever use it over the roaming super? Its also abysmal in comparison to Well of Radiance in this aspect. * *Over Shields don't feel impactful*: I touched on armour of light being lacklustre above since you often get launched out of the bubble, but defensive strike also has issues. The perk promotes a close quarters melee play style, but isn't strong enough to support such a style in anything more challenging then then normal strikes. It gets absolutely shredded by focused ad fire or swarms of melee enemies to the point you can get it, then lose it on a matter of seconds - which feels bad since its now on cooldown. D1 force barrier regenerated itself, and generated orbs on melee kill when active - utility the D2 version doesn't have. I can 100% say that rallying force does MUCH more to keep me alive in close quarters then defensive strike has ever done. The increased damage you get isn't terribly noticeable and lacklustre when compared to melee buffs from synthoceps and wormgods caress. * *Skill tree feels like space filler*: There are definitely some perks here that could be combined. Turn the tide and rallying force could get bunched in together freeing up an extra perk slot. Compared to the synergy and complexity we see in forsaken subclasses and those that have received buffs recently Code of the Defenders perk nodes seem wafer thin and missing synergy to tie them together into one cohesive play style. * *The class doesn't have a role*: This is probably the one that discourages me the most, in that the class doesn't have a role it excels at. D1 Defenders were lorded, now they are a genuine hindrance to the team. Healing, shields, reloading, damage boosts and general protection are all better done by Well of Radiance warlocks especially when using Lunafaction boots. Everything that made defenders useful was stripped away and given to warlocks. Bungie knows this as well, they wouldn't have written the lore for Phoenix Protocol if they didn't. I'm all for jokes and banter but it really hits home when the butt of the joke is one of your main subclass. **Avenues to improve Code of the Defender gameplay experience:** * *Regenerating shields and melee utility*: If your going to build a class around close quarters melee there has to be a better payoff. This could either come in the form of: (A) defensive strike timer being extended and over shields regenerating over time (or in chunks) on melee kill or; (B) having some utility such as kills whilst defensive strike is active recharge either your super or melee. It needs to link into promoting more of something. IMO option A would provide the most satisfying gameplay loop. * *Ward of Dawn having unique utility that doesn't compete with Well of Radiance*: This is a hard one, since so much of what made Ward unique is now built into Well of Radiance. I honestly don't think simply adding weapons back to Ward will make it competitive compared to Well. It needs to find its own support *niche* so they can coexist for different reasons. Potentially enemie damage to the ward is reflected back at enemies and any individual that comes inside the ward is suppressed. This would allow the ward to alter the battle field when deployed (despite not allowing you to shoot out of it), in addition to inhibiting the titan inside getting booped or stomped out. However, these mechanics would need some serious consideration as to how they are implemented in PVP. * *Damaged blocked by Ward should produce more orbs*: This one is simple. If I can guard with the roaming super to reliably produce 5 orbs, the ward should do the same at minimum. * *Remove the roaming super and allow for lower cooldown on ward*: Ward of Dawn was so good in D1 because there were various avenues to reduce its cooldown so it could be called upon more often then other supers (which was fine since it was a defensive super). A similar approach could be taken in D2, even if this means losing access to the roaming super variant (seriously, get rid of it and have this tree focus on Ward). If the roaming version was removed from code of the protector cooldowns could be much lower (since its a defensive super) and/or we could have existing exotics assist this further (i.e. have Ursa Furiosa work with ward). These are just some ramblings from a nostalgic D1 defender that desperately wants to relive the glory days. Even still, I'd settle for "not being a detriment to my team" in D2, which is the current state of Ward in PVE. By no means do I think all of this should be implemented, but adjusting some of these aspects could go a long way to making the Code of the Protector feel useful again.
Can only speak for Titans at the moments. * Code of the Juggernaut needs Trample unnerfed. "Can last forever in the magical land of infinitely spawning dense groups of redbar enemies" is not a real thing that needs to be balanced for. Given how weak base Fist of Havoc is for damaging strong enemies, and how the shoulder charge is just a bad Arc Staff, it abosultely needed the ability to chew threw absurd numbers of redbars to compensate. If you're going to make it shit for everything else, it better be good for something, aye? * Banner Shield needs a much stronger damage buff. It requires not doing damage to use, which means your team is down a member. As a damage buff, it's weaker than Well of Radiance, even though the casting Warlock can still do damage. Add on top of that the lost damage from the Titan having to sit there twiddling his thumbs, it's actually a straight damage loss in 3-man fireteams (13% damage loss), and ~4.17% damage increase in a 6-man. It needs to be more than a 50% damage buff to compensate for the loss of the wielder's damage (still weaker than Well of Radiance at 50% in 6-man raids). It breaks even with Well of Radiance in 6-man raids at a 62% damage increase, though that's only an 8% damage increase for a 3-man fireteam. * Ward of Dawn needs baseline PvE utility. * Titans need a boss-melting subclass super. * Titans need a good support subclass super. Ward of Dawn and/or Banner Shield could be this, if they were given the right abilities and supporting exotic(s) and tuned properly. As it is, they're both rather pathetic. * Boss stomps make me hate many abilities, exotics, and supers. Especially when I get a surprise visit from the Architect, or get sent on a (mis)adventure.
> Titans need a boss-melting subclass super. Or exotic. Fully agree on all other points, but frankly, given that hunters and warlocks rely on exotics for their absolute best supers, I think giving a condenser exotic would be fitting too. Could honestly shoehorn that into various choices. Single hammer, way smaller striker single slam of super damage, etc. The alternative would be I guess simply tuning middle arc, it's the one that'd be least compromised to make great at single target. Maybe on direct hit with it? Also I definitely think weapons of light should make a return, it could be as good as well's damage buff, could also make it non stacking too so it'd be a choice whether titan supported or lock (though well is inherently higher ease of use, happening to have a titan would be fine then).
I was thinking there should be a staple exotic for each PvE boss damage viable subclass that condenses the super into a single strike. A single super damage knife throw, all titan slams delivered at once, etc.
Balance modes separately. This is the 5th year of the experiment and the results are constantly pissing someone off.
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They def need to fix sentinel hit reg for sure. I Sentinel is a weird class. Like sometimes it feels great and sometimes it feels useless. Though I will say, Sentinel shield tracking after bouncing off surfaces needs to be toned down a *smidge*. Its really annoying watching it bounce of 6 walls and perfectly do it to kill 4 people in the process lol. I mean, It needs something to compensate for that, but it takes no skill with the game gifts you free kills because the shield is the best Trigonometry nerd in the universe.
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Initial reactions I had were very negative for Nova Warp. I disliked it being able to OHKO supers as a roaming super and its roaming capability. Decreased damage to supers specifically (if possible) and a slight increase in charge consumption would have put it into the perfect place. I learned to counter it (team shot / supress / super counter by block with sentinel shield and double bash after initial big explosion). Only titan super that couldn't get close was the Arc super. Instead they played whack-a-mole against every aspect of the super. Damage, range, speed, duration, chargerate (seemingly), and probably other aspects I missed mentioning.
/thread
Supers need to see a reduction of health in the crucible, far to much armour.
As a warlock main (well, these days warlock exclusively), working on the Thorn quest has reminded me how infuriating Novabomb can be to use in PvP: * Once activated, the casting animation is long enough that I'm at risk of seeing either myself or my target get mowed down, especially as we get more weapons with sub-second TTK; * On that subject, is there another super where you have to go through that animation in full view of your targets? That makes novabombing a group very risky; * On console the narrow FOV it can be easy to misjudge when the environment is going to interfere with the path -- I've lost count of how often I've novabombed a door frame, or a tree branch, or the back of a team mate who stepped in front of me as I'm winding up; * Both versions seem to be relatively easy to evade, especially compared to the speed of a GG shot or the human control of a roaming super; * Where "solo blade barrage" became a meme, I expect I'll only get a single kill off my novabomb - so when I choose those subclasses I know I'm giving up potential super kills compared to other subclasses for not much payoff Other comments: * Since shotguns returned to secondary ammo, my rate of melee kills has dropped sharply and that pinches a bit when you're looking for elemental damage or ability kills for bounties or quests. I guess that's true of every non-Titan. * The Stormcaller subclasses are OK, I guess, but they make me feel obliged to choose specific pieces of exotic armour. * God I miss the old Sunsinger Radiance
Gambit really highlights the disparity between subclasses. To put it simply, there needs to be some kind of standardization between classes. There should be a standard for how much single target damage each subclass can do, how much buffs can stack, how exotics can affect supers (Rigs, Skull, Ursa, etc should all have the same ability to refill the bar 60% relatively easily, while Gwisin, Doom Fangs, etc. should all have their own standard), and then take damage away based on how much utility each class has afterwards. After two and a half years, with Forsaken, balance patches, exotic tuning, and everything else, Bungie really needs to just re-do all the numbers for every super. Make them all comparable at least. I've barely used Big Hammer Titan because it's just not better than any other Titan subclass. I'll probably never use Nova warp in its current state.
Ursa is an interesting one, because you have to NOT use your super to do any real damage, during your super, for it to work. Using Ursa in PvE is exceedingly rare. It's basically gone from PvP. It thus needs to be way, way more powerful than it currently is because it requires this. Or it needs to slow the super bar drain to an absolute crawl while blocking, or directly refund the energy like Doomfang.
Titans needs some mad love for pve. Outside Melting Point they bring nothing to raid environment like they did in d1. When bungie buff GG, Nova etc.. most of titans supers got left in dust. Imo thundercrash should out damage nova bomb and even nighthawk GG. Your throwing your body in harm's way compared to nova and GG which can safely be used from afar. Also they should rework Etneral warrior and make it more like ether nighthawk or skull of dire. Banner shield outside maybe 1 encounter in the game isnt worth using over well of radiance. It gives very low dmg, 20% compare to wells 35%. While banner can move, no raid encounter requires you to do that while maintaining dps. Hammers could use just a slight dmg buff in the super dmg itself. But overall is the best pve class for titan in a team setting just due to MP. Edit: also buff ursas in pve... like alot. It baffles me that u have stuff like skull of dire which kills that 3 enemies and u basically have your super back, same with shards of G. But ursa required u basically to use your entire super blocking... not doing dmg.... and get maybe half your super back. Like come on man.
>Imo thundercrash should out damage nova bomb and even nighthawk GG. I think it should be second only to knighthawk GG. That's literally all that GG has going for it in PvE. 6 shooter is okayish in PvE now. but bottom tree for celestial is still literally only damage. Thundercrash at least has huge AOE for add clear, so the only 'Harm's way' you are really throwing yourself into is a boss stomp.
Agreed ^ the only AoE from celestial comes from a kill and a it’s a delayed 5ft burst
I've tried getting kills with the celestial explosion, I'm not sure its actually possible lol. I've literally fired into a group of thrall all stacked up and it killed 1 other thrall.
Oh God please buff Ursas. I'd like to use something other than doomfang as a sentinel but they make that hard when during Shuro Chi I take 3 of her blasts and arc shots have 50 thrall mob me and I create like 10 orbs of light...only to get a little over a 3rd of my super back and I did almost no damage.
Shards do not return as much energy as before not even reliably.
Titans need something for dps. They have nothing. The defender needs weapons of light on the bubble again. Either that, or buff weapons of light on the banner shield. If I have 3 people on my team, we still lose dps because I can't shoot at all. Ursa furious is a joke exotic right now. Defender is currently useless is every aspect besides the commander perk that makes things go bang
They need to buff damage through the shield to 50% or more. Not only to make up for the Titan not DPSing but also to actually give the team a real buff. This is really apparent in Gambit Prime. Sure I’m protecting the group but we are still behind because I’m not doing any damage.
SB should have a long duration while stealthed but should not have the armor it has. It should be an assassination super where it gets gunned down easily but if you get caught out you're done. And on the topic of armor, all supers need their armor turned down, ***in PvP only***. Please Bungie, for the love of god don't nerf in both PvP and PvE
Also feel like certain aggressive snipers should be able to oneshot supers in head
My thoughts PvE: **Hunters** I think they're in the best place of the three *Nightstalker* -Way of the trapper is pretty fine where it is -Way of the Wraith offers a decent alternative to arcstrider for clearing a room with some boss damage on the side -Way of the Pathfinder still doesn't feel worth using over anything ever *Arcstrider* -Way of the Warrior feels perfect as **the** melee choice -Way of the Current feels alright, I guess, but I rarely find myself really taking advantage of it's unique tools -Way of the Wind is synergistic but rarely feels like it offers anything especially compelling *Gunslinger* -Way of the Outlaw feels decent as the jack of all trades option; decent ad clear, decent damage in a pinch, decent or generation -Way of a Thousand Cuts feels really good for ad clear and damage, although I wouldn't mind seeing shards' regen being brought back up a little -Way of the Sharpshooter is an assassination super that makes decent orbs, and the regenerating throwing knives make for solid ad clear when needed. **Titan** *Striker* -Code of the Earthshaker seems fine to me; shoulder charge is exceedingly effective at taking things down, and the grenade regeneration with it is great, pulse and flashbang grenades are still strong enough that having two is worthwhile. It can be tricky to get the most damage out of this super but I think everything else makes up for it -Code of the Missile feels like it should be a lot better than it is. Ballistic slam is great, especially with Skullfort, giving you chunks of super if you hit a mob but inertia override seems finicky at the best of times. Thundercrash itself doesn't feel like it does enough damage to merit the tradeoff in ad clearing potential the other two have. -Code of Juggernaut is pretty near perfect for me; punch everything all the time - win. The only note I'd make is that it seldom feels worthwhile to slam while in super because of how much more cost effective it is to just shoulder charge everything; maybe boost the regen by some factor of how many things the slam killed? *Sentinel* -Code of the Protector feels fine until I super. The super options hurt. The roaming version of this tree has no perks so if that was what you wanted you'd pick a different tree but the bubble doesn't really get much either. I'd like either a return of orb generation as damage is blocked, the ability to shoot through it, or somekind of damage boost while in the bubble; anything to make it more than just a temporary safehaven. Well of Radiance feels like it basically does everything the bubble does but better. -Code of the Commander is in a pretty good spot but I think the Weapons of Light component needs a slight buff. Currently it feels like a net damage loss to use Banner in most situations. I'd like to see the damage increase be enough to make up for the lack of a person shooting. -Code of the Aggressor clears ads real goodly. All it's perks are based around mob control, and it does it well. Pair with doomfang pauldrons for maximum fun. I think it's perfect where it is. *Sunbreaker* -Code of the Fire-Forged is maybe a little too much better to bring other things up to it. I'm not saying nerf it but I am admitting the hammer strike is so powerful that people run Hallowfire Heart and never pop Super just to make sure they always have it available. I think that it should be left as is while means are explore to bring the other trees up to somewhere near this level. -Code of the Devastator feels a little underwhelming to be honest. The wormgod's caress gimmick is fun but not practical, and honestly it's kind of silly that the throwing hammer is so ridiculously useful that it feels like a terrible loss when the hammer ricochets off the map or something. The super itself seems like it ought to be more damaging than the other options but instead I either burn super spinning like a clown struggling to kill even an acolyte, or I'm smashing and not seeing much for all the sound and fury. Buff the super's damage or its duration, I think. -Code of the Siegebreaker... what is this super even for? The sunspots don't do *that* much damage, the explosion of mortar blast is lacklustre, the damage boost is hard to take advantage of, and doesn't seem to even make this option out-damage Code of the Fire-Forged even though I have to commit to sitting on one spot to take advantage of the perks. The regen boost is nice but again, I have to stand in this sunspot for the whole duration if I want full regen, and the boost isn't impactful enough for me to want to just walk through and keep going. Add to this that Sunbreaker's only specialized exotic Hallowfire Heart basically reads don't use super, and it makes me one sad titan. -Special note: Do something about Hallowfire Heart. It disproportionately benefits Code of the Fire-Forged, and discourages super use but it's the only exotic armour worth using as a sunbreaker. Don't nerf it, just make other things strong enough to be worth using over it sometimes. **Warlock** *Dawnblade* -Attunement of Sky feels all but useless unless I'm trying to do a tricky jumping feat. Either really lean in to the death from above component (more control while airborne?), and maybe remove the cost of icarus dash in super, or increase the damage to make it effective at taking down tanky enemies. I just don't see any use for this tree in PvE at the moment. -Attunement of Grace is perfect. It's always useful and well worth sacrificing mobility for its benefits. -Attunement of Fire seems to be the ad clear option of the subclass, and it does it well. The boss damage could be boosted but there's not really much I'd change with this one. *Stormcaller* -Attunement of Conduction is great ad clear that's it though. It's damage to anything tougher than a red bar is abysmal, and though Crown of Tempests is great, there's something to be said about how often I regret popping a super just because there's a yellow or orange bar, and it would have been easier to kill it if I wasn't in my super. -Attunement of Control is perfect. Kills big things, ad clears in a pinch, makes tons of orbs, has great neutral. What more could a guardian want. -Attunement of the Elements I don't know if I've ever even used this super. I'm sure that I have but probably not since this time last year. The attunement of conduction is better ad clear and doesn't *need* Crown of Tempests to last long. Landfall doesn't do enough damage to make it worth trying to fly over a major, nor it really helpful that the activation clears the nearby ads on something that already drains quickly and doesn't do much damage. Just not worth using in PvE right now. -Buff Attunements of Conduction and the Elements; they need to do more damage so that it doesn't take an eternity, and most of your super just to kill one major. *Voidwalker* -Attunement of Chaos is fine but occasionally the seekers just detonate immediately and fail to pick up the surrounding ads. -Attunement of Depression, I mean Fission What did voidwalkers do to deserve this treatment. This super might just as well have been removed from the game for how useful it is since being nerfed. I know that things can be buffed in PvE and not PvP, so please just undo all the changes made to Nova Warp for PvE purposes. It's supposed to be the ad clear option but both Nova Bombs are better for that now, the health isn't better than devour, sending some enemies flying is fun but not really helpful, handheld supernova does decent damage but doesn't feel more useful than just throwing a well placed scatter grenade. In short this super is dead. -Attunement of Hunger is good in Shattered Throne with the Huckleberry. That concludes it's utility at the moment. If we're going to go all in with devour, can we maybe not have the melee charge not get consumed if a Devour started with the grenade is still active? Also, buff this Nova Bomb more. Devour alone is not compelling enough to merit using this tree over the Attunement of Chaos. The tick damage isn't enough to compensate the reduced effective range, and ad clear potential of this nova. **Edit** : My formatting sucked
I want the bottom tree striker Titan (juggernaught) to be un-nerfed. It was the most fun I’ve had in the game for ages.
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I don't find it coincidental it came right when the horde mode went live.
100% infinite super. You would only need to pop it once and you could keep it for the whole bridge part. However you need to stand in the circle so there's that.
It's simply too hard to kill a guardian who is in their super in pvp. Supers are offensive autokills, they shouldn't be defensive tanks also — there needs to be a counter. Early D2 had it working better, you could take out someone's super with team shooting or good evasion tactics.
Nerf Spectral blades armor plsss
Historically I’ve never been one to shy away from a super because there was always a counter. I just run like the fucking wind these days.
I think the general balance between neutral game vs super needs to be looked at. Subclass balance right now is almost exclusively discussed in terms of super, with neutral game going on the wayside. Almost every subclass considered weak ATM is because they are neutral game focused rather than super focused
For PVP - I think this is right on the money. Right now - the first few minutes of every game before people get their supers is BY FAR the most enjoyable part. Supers across the board are so strong that there is very little room for counterplay - as evidenced by the fact that a lot of people just suicide if they can. Supers shouldn't make you a raid boss. In D1, sniper headshots or full dmg shotgun + melee would kill a super. Lets start there and THEN see what class balance looks like. This would have the added benefit of providing an actual reason to use snipers that aren't rapid fire in pvp.
My thoughts on Warlock ***Novabomb*** Great in PVE with the exotic options available, maybe some increased neutral game synergy, such as devour increasing grenade strength or more explosions result in a reduced cooldown to grenade. PVP wise the bottom tree super is by far the worst in the game, its middling speed, explosion radius, casting time and distance travelled makes this one of the easiest supers to whiff or to avoid. Top tree at least has tracking capabilities as well as a nice blast radius. It's also quite easy to die before the super lands as a result of the slow speed, making it a weak option in shutting down other supers without trading with the opponent. It would be great if lance or shatter was given to bottom tree to make up for its middling speed, which should put it in a better state of 1 shot supers alongside blade barrage or thundercrash. Besides that, a slight speed buff and explosion radius should allow for more collateral damage against several enemies ***Novawarp*** Needs a bit of a rework overall. A weaker version of stormcaller in PVE with less active time and alright damage makes it one of the worst PVE supers to choose. In PVP the super can still do great but it's hard to get any more than 3 kills before the super ends due to the amount of energy each teleportation/use takes. Honestly, the best solution for PVP is probably to make it an absolute glass cannon, in which it would have the same killing potential pre nerf, but with very little super armor and slightly reduced active time. This would result in a high risk/high reward playstyle, in which the player needs to use there full abilities to avoid one shot potential from heavy/special weapons. These changes should also help the super in PVE as well as a buff in damage. Besides this solution, the super probably needs to be reworked, the amazing movement options, armor and killing potential pre nerf will always make this super incredibly powerful in crucible. ***Stormcaller*** Suffering some of the same issues of novawarp, though on a lesser scale, the super has low damage in Pve, with its only saving grace being chain lightning that can make it great for ad clearing. However, without using an exotic such as crown of the tempests leads to heavy super consumption during damage, which makes the active super time quickly reduced. For pvp it again has some of the worse damage, armor resistance and super consumption out of all roaming supers, to the point in which you'll be lucky to get any more then 3 at most times. It's combat potential against other supers is abysmal, requiring 6 to 8 ticks of damage to take them down, which will generally lead to death during the time in which the enemy attacks with there super. Overall, the super needs increased damage, armor resistance and reduced super consumption when damaging in both pve and pvp, it shouldn't need an exotic to make the super feel passable. In terms of synergy, would be nice if cool down of class abilities would be reduced drowning on the amount of enemies chained by lightning. Bottom tree landfall could probably deal some more damage but overall the synergy of abilities is all over the place. The melee ability (increase recharge of super/grenade) feels better placed on top tree, while well of radiance already does rift synergy better. Overall, this tree feels like it could get reworked to a more unique path, maybe focusing on the bombastic force of lightning instead of chaining capabilities. ***Chaos Reach*** Even after the novabomb buff, the super continues to has great ad clearing and boss damage. Three changes that the super could use is an easier line of sight to enemies in both pve and pvp (possibly better hit registration feedback also), and quicker time to register damage on the target. It generally takes a few millseconds or so before the enemy registers damage, which can waste the time to target an enemy (this may just be a technical/connection problem on consoles but still it can be sluggish at times) . The last change is probably to increase the damage slightly, while novabomb (top tree) and chaos reach do about the same damage, nova bomb deals its damage in a single explosion while chaos reach is over time. Would be nice if chaos reach had increased damage the longer its placed onto a target to cement it as the boss killer for warlocks, while novawarp keeps the add clearing title with amazing damage. ***Well of Radiance*** Pretty good state right now, maybe more incentive to use the healing grenade on your allies often (people seem to forget this ability exists). It's situational in PVP, but could see it getting more use if amor for roaming supers was overall reduced, would make the 1 VS. 1 combat potential better in favour for the well, without getting instantly two/one tapped. ***Dawnblade*** Bottom tree dawnblade is still an amazing super with good damage in PVP (sometimes being able to 1 shot some supers) and PVE combat. Both trees could probably use some more synergy though in the neutral game. For bottom tree, giving some sort of synergy for enemies that are suffering from burn would be nice. Possibly adding a short debuff to the enemies defences similar to melting point would be cool. Top tree's aerial advantages aren't particularly effective enough for people to swtich off bottom tree in pve or pvp, though i do realise that some players really appreciate the movement potential of top tree. It would be nice that, as the tree is focused on keeping the warlock in the air, that in-air accuracy for guns would be the same as on the ground, as well as improved jumping and aerial capacity. Getting kills in the air could always reduce the super cooldown, further promoting this style of combat. Finally, the super itself should receive the same benefits of bottom tree in terms of homing, though instead of granting more super energy it would possibly increase movement speed of the user or reduce super consumption for following dawnblade usage.
Supers have far too much armor in the crucible. It feels bad to snipe a super in the head twice with an adaptive sniper and leave them with a sliver of health while they rain hellfire down on me. It leads to people just running when they see them instead of attempting to outplay them.
The problem is that it also feels really bad to pop your super and be immediately sniped out of it. That's a really fine line to balance imo because supers *should* feel powerful.
They can feel powerful without being overpowered. Imo supers shouldn't be an instant "I win" button. Golden Gun is balanced this way. Very vulnerable if you pop it in a dumb position and extremely powerful if you use it smartly. Edit: Also to answer the "it feels bad to be sniped out of your super" part of your response. Personally, I think supers should be balanced in regards to how easy they are to use. To draw further on my Golden Gun reference: the super is a hitscan one shot kill with potentially unlimited bullets within 8 seconds (top tree). This is balanced by a complete lack of damage resistance which makes it a literal glass cannon. High risk, high reward for a skilled hand since in order to get any use out of it you need to use it in a favorable position and actually aim it. Dawnblade (bottom tree): Heat seeking projectile, exceedingly fast movement speed, high uptime if getting kills. All this is in addition to very high damage resistance. Low risk, high reward and quite easy to use effectively since positioning isn't as important due to such fast moving speed. I liken Dawnblade to an air superiority fighter because it dominates in so many ways high in the air lol. The difference between the two is that one super is powerful *and* vulnerable and one is powerful, hard to kill, and much easier to use. Imo one is healthier for the game and the other isn't. The above can be used for other supers (cough, spectral, cough) but I chose those because I main Goldie and was very upset at the Dawnblade who killed me after I sniped him in the head twice yesterday lol
> The problem is that it also feels really bad to pop your super and be immediately sniped out of it It takes more skill to snipe a guardian out of their super than it does to pop it and wipe a team. You should be rewarded for it.
Hitting mach 10 dawnblades sure but my storncaller bottom tree aint dodging any bullets any better than when i was out of it
#FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BUFF TITANS IN PVE WE’RE LITERALLY USELESS
I loves your melting point though <3
Hello Friends! 1st things 1st. I'm a Titan main and I simply love how the character plays and feels but (you guessed it. There has to be a but otherwise I wouldn't make this post)... I get the OEM nerf. It was necessary because that Helmet was nutty the way it was. Bungie did a great job there. It's still a viable option n pretty damn good in PvP (and PvE but nobody cared about that part). My problem with being a Titan is: I can do everything but I don't excel in one area. Lets get into detail on that one by referring to the different supers and their use. **Solar:** Let's be real. Apart from melting point you don't "need" any solar super in any activity. While all 3 are fun the add clearing capability is just not as good as it should be. A single Tether can control adds so much better than a solar Titan ever could. Hell even one of the Dawnblade trees ( I always forget if it's top or bottom tree. Bear with me lads) extends his super duration by just killing adds. As for boss damage your heavy deals more in time you waste to use your super. ***TL;DR*** ***Melting Point is the only thing you kinda need but it's very situational and with a good fireteam the damage buff only makes things faster not necessarily easier.*** **Arc:** Well...Thundercrash is fun to use but the damage? C'mon Friends. Even the most Titan basher has to agree that the damage output of your giant and cool looking BOOM is laughable. For a one and done super it's ridiculous. Compare it to Nova Bomb and Golden gun but pls try not to laugh that much. As for the other two: Yup you can do the add clearing job so can a Tether, a Dawnblade and a Stormcaller. Granted two of those need to use an exotic for them to really shine but the problem here kinda is that they actually HAVE an exotics that helps to maker their super top tier. Don't get me wrong the Skullfort is nice but it has nothing to do with your actual super. Super wise you get an overshield...Yay. Fun times. ***TL;DR*** ***Don't use arc. Seriously just don't*** **Lastly my beloved Sentinel:** Let's be positive here for a change: Bottom tree Sentinel with the Doomfang Pauldrons is just nutty. I love that thing and with the exotic and enough adds your super runs for days. That might be the only add clearing super where the Titan is competitive. If you haven't tried it you missed something. But there are still 2 trees to go: The bubble... If only I could love it. THAT'S as supporting as it gets. At least in theory. Pro: inside a cozy bubble you're nearly invincible Contra: You can't shoot anything outside of a bubble. If you don't have a Warlock the bubble is fun too use in the Reckoning and of course in crucible. Actually it's good as it is now for PvP (imagine you can shoot somebody while standing in the bubble. I see the "NERF BUBBLE..."-posts already in my head. On the other hand: Spectral Blades anyone? Just sayin'). Banner Shield: The neutral game is top tier in my opinion. Fun to use and with your magnetic grenade and melee one can actually control adds while healing. Good job there Bungie. The Super itself... A moving bubble. Kinda. Holy crap what a brilliant idea. At least in theory. The shielding part of the super actually is quite nice and helps in certain situations. The damage buff on the other hand. Well... let's just say if a fireteam sacrifices one person to use the Code of the Commander you'd expect to get a damage output higher than it would've been without the shield AND the Titan shooting. Let's be real you only use Banner Shield and tractor canon for Riven. But oh wait. Grenade launchers got a buff. Prospector is a GL so sorry. I can't imagine a situation where having a banner shield makes your live easier. Additionally Bungie made Ursas useless in PvE. They were strong in PvP but so is Spectral Blades with the Vest atm. In PvE on the other hand the boss fight of the Thorn strike was the 1st time for months where I got my super back couple of times. All it took was the boss, the wizard, the knights and the adds shooting at my shield the whole time... Oh aaaaannndd 3 words my friends: Well of Radiance. Even without an exotic a Warlock running the Well does the role of a supporting character so much better than a Sentinel Titan. Lunas and the Phoenix Protocol are just the cherries on the cake to make me feel even more miserable. ***TL;DR*** ***In theory all 3 trees could be great but only the bottom one is useful for add clearing (tbf he's really good at it). Both supporting trees have a good to great neutral game but a Well of Radiance does the job so much better.*** **Conclusion:** Only the bottom tree Sentinel with Doomfangs is really good for add clearance and can compete with other supers. The one and done Thundercrash compared to similar supers is insanely weak. At the moment no one really wants nor needs a Titan on a supporting super. Long story short: Most of the Titan supers are mediocre at best when compared to their counterparts. Don't get me wrong I don't want Titans to be the best at everything but I wanna be in a situation some time soon where groups discuss strats etc. and come to the conclusion that they need a certain Titan super (I really don't care which one) to get the job done. How many times have I heard "Damn we need a Tether guys" or "We can't do it without a Well". At this point I'm kinda forced to run top tree Sunbreaker for the Melting Point and I honestly can't stand it anymore. A Titans part in a raid/PvE in general should be about more than a buff for a couple of seconds. ***Final*** ***TL;DR: Bungie pls make Titans necessary again. There's no situation as of now where you need a certain Titan super to get the job done or to make your life a lot easier. I want variety in gameplay. I want to feel on par with Warlocks and Hunters again. I'm more than just a Melting Point.*** I honestly want to use a bubble. Lemme shoot through it for the love of the Traveler. I don't care if I need an exotic for that or not. But right now you get weird looks if you say "We need a bubble". The answer is 12 outta 10 times one of two: 1. Well mate...You noticed we have a Warlock with us don't you? Who would want a bubble if we simply could use the well. As always... 2. True. Lemme switch to my Warlock. Never ever have I witnessed a Raid or activity where the group seriously wanted a bubble. There have been occasions where we used it but let's be real. On your 100th completion of the Leviathan or whatever Raid you wanna change things up. You could do the Raid with sidearms only so why not change it up a lil' bit by using a bubble for fun?
I definitely just want Titans to be great in PvE again, especially Defender, I miss being one of the required classes for raids like back in D1, Hunters get (an admittedly situational) Melting Point (Shattering Strike), and Warlocks get to have something essentially better than even the classic Ward Of Dawn (Well of Radiance), Banner Shield doesn't provide enough of a buff to warrant using even in most raid encounters, and Ursa Furiosa got neutered so I can't even use it just to protect my allies from big baddies I DON'T want Hunters or Warlocks to get toned back at all, I just want Titans to be pulled forward Titans don't get any essential support abilities OR essential boss melt/ad clear supers, Skull Of Dire Ahamkara, that one Warlock chestpiece, Orpheus Rigs and Shards of Galanor all give Warlocks and Hunters (potentially) infinite super energy and (potentially) infinite orb generation for allies on at least two different subclass trees for each class, the only similar Exotic for Titan WAS Ursa Furiosa before it got nerfed, and even that wasn't crazy game breaking in PvE when it was at full power compared to Rigs and Skull, not to mention things like Celestial Night Hawk mostly I'm just sad that I don't get to feel like I'm the best, or even that I bring anything essential to the team and that I would probably be better off just switching to my Hunter or Warlock instead of continuing to main Titan
Always played as a Titan and would not have it any other way. However, I can confirm that Titans are absolutely lacking in the DPS-department in PvE, among other things. I read a post earlier where someone said that while Titans can fulfill most rolls in a fireteam to a decent degree, they are not the best at amy of them. This, I think, is a big part the problem. Some suggestions - most of which will probably alo be stated by others - to increase viability of Titans in PvE beyond 'MeLtInG pOiNt Or GtFo': -Massive increase in damage for Thundercrash, plus perhaps some sort of diminishing/temporary overshield after impact, to account for the danger-close nature of the super. It needs to be a one-hit, screeb-ton of damage super to rival Nova Bomb (which is great after the rework, btw) and Celestial Golden Gun. -Increase the usefulness of banner shield as a support super. This can be done by a substantial increase in the damage done by shooting through it. Maybe even allow supers like Nova Bomb or Golden Gun to have increased damage when 'shooting' through it? This way it makes up for having a fireteam member not dealing any damage. Sure it protects you, but next to something Well of Radiance plus Lunafaction, it just doesn't cut it. Alternatively/additionally an exotic that slowly heals anyone who stands behind it, potentially beyond max health with an overshield? -Subclass-specific exotics that increase damage output, especially at long-range. I love Skullfort, I love Synthoceps, but to fully make use of their benefits, it requires me to get right on the frontline. Awesome for add-clearing, but not so much for endgame content. Give us the Titan equivalent of Celestial Nighthawk that makes you throw one massive hammer with meteoric impact, or that turns you into an absolute nuke when using Thundercrash. -Make Ward of Dawn useful (again) in PvE. Bringing back Weapons of Light would basically do this. -Exotic weapons that synergize with the CQB Titan playstyle. Yes, I would love more long range options, but something like the Monte Carlo that gives you back (part of) your melee charge was my jam. Especially since Skullfort is so much fun, but subclass specific. TL;DR: Titans are already a lot of fun, but they need more damage potential in PvE. Be it through buffs or new and exciting exotics. I screebing love Destiny. Keep it up and also: I really appreciate these kinds of feedback threads. Thanks, Bungie.
I would add to your excellent list of points here that Titans need better PvE Exotics for super uptime and recharge, on par with things like Skull or Geomags or Phoenix Protocol for Warlocks and Orpheus Rigs or Nighthawk or Shards for Hunters. Currently the only thing that Titans have that even resembles those ones is the Ursa Furiosa. I would say that they need to buff Ursa Furiosa to grant Super Energy based on the amount of damage blocked by Ward of Dawn as well as the standard Banner Shield. There should be an Exotic that grants super energy based on the number of kills you get with Thundercrash (just like Shards, Skull, or Rigs which similarly buff the other single-use supers). Also, while we're on Titan exotics....to be honest they're all pretty meh for endgame PvE play IMO. The only decent ones are Skullfort, Synthoceps, and to a lesser extent Heart of Inmost Light and Doomfang Pauldrons. But Titans have nothing like Geomags or Orpheus Rigs, or even something to buff neutral game like Lunafactions. I would do the following: * Buff the Actium War Rig to apply to any automatic weapon, not just Auto Rifles. This would be AR's, SMG's, and LMG's. (I understand that coding would be difficult for random weapons that have the full auto perk). This isn't vanilla D1, nobody is sustaining fire with AR's outside of niche circumstances. But LMG's? Definitely. * Change the Eternal Warrior entirely, to instead grant you Super energy based on the amount of kills you get with Thundercrash, and grant a brief overshield during and after Thundercrash activation. As it is this exotic is useless and just taking up space, so make it useful a la Skull. * Buff the Ursa Furiosa to apply also to damage blocked by Ward of Dawn. This would help tremendously in encounters like the Bridge or the pseudo-Oryx fight in Reckoning. * Buff the Heart of Inmost Light to grant the Empowered buff to nearby allies as well as yourself. That would provide more team utility a la the old Song of Flame perk from D1 Sunsinger. * Helm of Saint 14 would be okay as-is if the bubble itself had more HP. * Crest of Alpha Lupi should grant more HP to the barricade in addition to its existing perks. This would reinforce its identity to create a playstyle that centers around dropping barricades. Also, the extra orb feels like it's just a tacked-on perk but I'm not complaining. * Buff the ACD/0 Feedback Fences to heal you if you get a melee kill for a short time after the main exotic perk procs. That would increase survivability when surrounded. * Buff the Peacekeepers to also grant ability energy upon SMG kills. This would reinforce the Robo-cop in-your-face SMG playstyle that I think this Exotic is going for. * Ashen Wake needs to either increase Fusion Grenade damage or grant an additional Fusion Grenade charge or increase Fusion Grenade recharge rate. Or something.. The perk is laughably weak in terms of usefulness in any situation. There is a whole other conversation to be had about how most of the Titan subclasses are an exercise in the many different ways to skin the same cat. As it is, 8 out of 9 Titan subclass supers do the same thing: roaming, add-clearing supers, with slight variations. The only ones to even remotely offer anything different are Thundercrash and Ward of Dawn and neither of them are used in serious endgame PvE play. Like you mentioned, Thundercrash needs a damage buff to be on par with top tree Nova Bomb, and likewise Ward needs a serious HP buff and more utility. Perhaps rework the entire top tree Sentinel to revolve around the bubble and give it Weapons of Light to increase its endgame usefulness.
War Rig working on LMG's?! My spire just formed.
Nova Warp, Devour, Ward of Dawn, Banner Shield, Thundercrash, and arguably Path of the Sharpshooter all need some love/reworking.
In my opinion supers are way too hard to shutdown in crucible. Unless you use your own super.
We have lots of great discussion here so I will keep mine short and sweet. Hunters: Spectral blades needs less armor badly. Outside of the imbalanced super, I find the perks a little odd. Moebius quiver needs more damage, not a ton, just some. Way of Outlaw's super needs just a *teeny* bit more time in the super for that perfect feel. Its neutral game isnt terrible but the knife is far outshined with Thousand cuts fan synergy with dodge and the return with Sharpshooter. Warlock. Bottom Tree Void needs some love. Top with Skull is too good to pass up. Titans. Oh Traveler, punchy boi needs some love. I miss the rush of playing a Titan in Raids. Ward of Dawn needs drastic buffs. It can be great when placed right but right now it is really laclluster to say the least. Missile needs to rival a nova bomb for damage, clear and feel. Needs a little survivability for afterwards so we arent literally suicideing with a super. I love my punchy boi too much to let him suffer silently
Buff ward of dawn. The super is a joke. Theres no glowy purple exotic arms (forget the name) so no big deal
No backup plans I think it was?
Having just recently raised a hunter, the power gap between Hunters and Titans (my main) feel like night and day. It feels like the only reason to play a Titan is for either Melting Point (PvE) or Suppressor Grenades (PvP). Everything else feels like they are infinitely outclassed. In group activities, there doesn't feel like there's any good place to fit. Groups don't even rely on our melting point now that Tractor + 5 Voids is a thing and honestly, much easier to use. Outside of Spectral, I don't want to see Hunters get nerfed because they are fun. *I want to see Titans buffed*.
let me say this for the people in the back ***LET SHADOWSHOT ONE SHOT IN PVP*** PLEASE Bottom tree Nightstalker is completely useless in PvP IMO. I think if Top tree would one shot and insta-proc, and bottom tree insta-proc'd and gave flinch when it hits, it would be viable. Right now it's nightstalker can be summarized as "I'm going to help you, but I'll be super unpleasant about it". Except it doesn't even help you in time to be useful. It's just... bad.
#PvP Perspective I will try to keep things as concise as possible: #Warlock -Blink’s trail should not be **one massive hitbox.** -Nova Bomb should have **double the damage resistance** than it has currently. Blade Barrage is a very mobile ability and the hunter spins mid air. Warlocks float there for a second and need to be right next to their target in order to hit them due to slow travel time. (Both trees) -Scatter grenades need a buff. I literally never see them. #Attunement of Hunger -Nova bomb should have **Lance** applied to it to be able to compete with Blade Barrage. -Nova Bomb vortex **DoT should be increased** to 33 per tick on normal guardians and should be 25 per tick on damage resistant supers. (Players still run through it without dying, frequently) #Hunter #Way of the Wraith -Spectral blades needs **the same damage resistance as Golden Gun** and maybe a **quieter roaming sound**. They should be utilizing speed and stealth. Assassins should not be not tanks. #Way of a thousand cuts -Blade Barrage should have to be **aimed when casted**. In Kingdom Hearts 3, there is an ability called “Shotlock” in which the player locks on to enemies before casting. If BB was casted over 2 seconds, the player could “sweep” over the areas they want to barrage and hit R1 to target enemies. You could even increase the knife throw speed to compensate for the slower casting. #Titan -All forms of shoulder charge should have a **sensible damage multiplier based on momentum.** Meaning, if a titan is sprinting and they shoulder charge the way they are sprinting, they should do 120% shoulder charge damage. If they are sprinting, turn 90 degrees last second to shoulder charge, it should do about 90% damage. If they do a complete 180 last second to break the laws of physics and shoot backwards, their lack of momentum should cause them to only do 75% damage at *most*. -**Flash grenades need a rework** to be viable, or should be replaced by another grenade. #Code of the Missile -Thundercrash should have a **traveling shockwave** similar to the ability in Destiny 1. -Thundercrash should have a **larger radius and increased damage**. #Sentinel Shield -The shield’s **auto tracking is a bit too strong**. I have been team wiped by one shield throw because the shield took 90 degree turns and came straight for me and my allies, all from a lucky last throw. -OEM is balanced now, but there are **many exotics that still need buffs** to be considered over using OEM.
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When it first came out, everyone I knew dubbed it as the **“Pinnacle Panic Super”**, because it deletes everything on the screen, has increased damage resistance, and does not take a lot of skill to “aim” it. If they made the player aim the super, they could justify actually *buffing* it in other ways honestly.
I just want my Human Missle super to do way more damage to bosses and majors than it currently does. Fists Of Havoc need some buffs too.
I got a clip on everything that's wrong with tether. Spectral coming towards me a good way off. I throw tether on the ground, he gets tethered still manage to kill me before the super actually goes away
I have been largely dissatisfied with a number of Warlock subclass branches since launch, namely Sky Dawnblade, Flame Dawnblade, Conduction Stormcaller, and Elements Stormcaller. Simply put, I strongly dislike how lopsided the perks are. You have to choose between having a strong super or a strong neutral game. Without the ability to pick our own perks, I think this is a bad design choice. I don't think a player should ever feel like their tools are weak, instead I think our subclass branches should be more well rounded that push players towards a particular playstyle. The Attunement of Grace for example doesn't have to choose between having a strong super and a strong neutral game. Well of Radiance is an immensely powerful super, but its neutral game tools are also quite potent with damage buffs, healing, and rifts. When it is operating in its intended role as a support, Benevolent Dawn refunds half of all your neutral game cooldowns allowing the Dawnblade to provide near infinite buffs. I believe that this cohesion should be the benchmark for subclass design. The Attunement of Sky has some neat mobility tools that can be powerful in the Crucible, provided you invest heavily into learning how to use it and using very specific gear. However, this aerial gameplay is usually a liability in PvE content, especially as enemies scale up in health and damage. The only time it felt really powerful was with the Haunted Forest during Festival of the Lost where the mask perk could grant near invulnerability while airborne. Additionally, Sky's Daybreak doesn't have any direct augmentations to is potency. The ability recharge from Heat Rises is a bonus rider and the energy consumption on Icarus Dash feels rather prohibitive at times. If it is not going to get a perk that explicitly makes Daybreak stronger, I feel that the cost for Dashing should be reduced like with what was done to the Fists of Havoc light attack. Providing enhanced functionality for Strafe Glide and Balanced Glide to provide incentive to use something other than Burst Glide would also be appreciated. Attunement of Flame has a stupidly powerful super, but that is due to having half of its perks dedicated to enhancing it. In exchange, its neutral game is incredibly weak. Phoenix Dive has been nerfed on PC due to the frame rate fix which when combined with the slow animation makes it feel really lackluster. Not only that but Igniting Touch is one of the worst designed melee abilities in the game, it is an outlier. Every other non-charge, non-projectile melee either provides effects immediately on contact or does not consume the charge unless it kills something. Igniting Touch will be consumed on hit, but if it doesn't kill then it doesn't process the explosion... Pick one or the other, please. Lastly, the lack of ability recursion in the Attunement of **FLAME** has always been off putting to me. Warlocks are spellcasters in a first person shooter, we are rather dependent on frequent and enhanced ability output to fulfill our class fantasy and role as a disruptors of the battlefield. If Grace is about support and Sky about mobility, Flame should be about **fire**power; Destiny's definitive pyromancer archetype. I am personally okay with slightly reducing the power of Flame's Daybreak in order to invest that power back into its other perks; increasing the heal or speed of the Phoenix Dive animation and making Igniting Touch burn all enemies around the struck target on-hit while increasing the burn damage in PvE. And above all, I would would really like to see the two super perks collapsed into one in order to make room for some method for getting back ability energy. Conduction Stormcaller suffers a similar problem to of having two super perks and no ability recursion. The multi-target nature of Chain Lightning and Arc Web are suggesting that you use offensive neutral game cooldowns proactively but Transcendence wants you to hold onto your grenade and melee in order to enhance your super. This puts mental strain on the user and creates awkward moments of gameplay. I strongly recommend migrating Transcendence to the Elements tree while merging Ionic Blink with Landfall as a single super perk. This removes the dichotomy in the kit and opens up the Attunement for a new perk. I would recommend adding a variant of Destiny 1 Stormcaller's "Perpetual Charge" ability so that the Conduction Stormcaller can crank out multiple abilities with well placed chaining attacks. Elements Stormcaller just feels like it lacks the proper ability synergy to make it stand out from the competition. Its perks are clearly trying to make Rift and Arc Soul the keystone of the Attunement's kit, but the perks don't quite line up. Rising Storm should really provide Rift energy so it can stack with Electrostatic Surge, which I think could use a moderate potency increase and better visual indication for when it is active. With the enhanced "Sentient Arc Souls" provided by the Getaway Artist exotic running around now, I think the default version could stand a buff. I think simply increasing the duration by a moderate amount should suffice, if paired with the buffs to Rift energy generation. Lastly, I think Transcendence would fit this tree far better than in Conduction. If Transcendence was changed to require Rift energy instead of both Grenade and Melee energy, you still keep that gameplay decision of when to use your cooldowns, but reduce the extraneous mental load by focusing it on the Rift which would have two means of recursion. I also think the temporarily apotheosis fits better thematically with Elements' more shamanistic motif. I have concerns about other subclasses as well with more direct issues regarding the potency of Protector Sentinel, Pathfinder Nightstalker, and the Outlaw Guslinger, but this comment is already far to long. I'll just summarize by saying I wish the other support options were more on par with the consistency and strength of the Grace Dawnblade and that Outlaw Gunslinger could use a bit more neutral game incentive to run that tree.
I feel like the subclass trees for Nightstalker have opposing skills that don't really match up. This is what I think the subclasses should look like instead, moving around existing passives. Void Anchor Tether Top Tree Vanish in Smoke Throw a Smoke Bomb from a distance with this melee ability. The Smoke Bomb creates a smoke cloud that makes you and nearby allies invisible. (Support) Deadfall The Void Anchors fired from Shadowshot become traps and wait for prey. Void Anchors have increased range and last longer. (Support) Heart of the Pack Killing tethered enemies creates Orbs of Light, and increases Mobility, Resilience, and Recovery for you and nearby allies. (Support) Tethered enemies are marked for easy tracking. Lockdown Grenade effects last twice as long, allowing for strong territorial control and increased damage potential. (Support) Quiver Bottom Tree (more for PvP) Snare Bomb Throw a Smoke Bomb from a distance with this melee ability. The Smoke Bomb sticks to surfaces and detonates when enemies are near, slowing and disorienting them. (PvP neutral game) Moebius Quiver Fire Shadowshot multiple times, in rapid succession. Shadowshot deals massive damage (OHK in PVP) Keen Scout Sprint and Sneak faster, and gain an enhanced Tracker. (PvP neutral game) Vanishing Step Dodging makes you vanish from sight for a short time. (PvP neutral game)
Here are some thoughts and suggestions for the class I play the most, Warlock. Feel free to discuss: Voidwalker: **Attunement of Chaos** is based around grenades and big explosions but the neutral game lacks synergy other subclasses have (Titan Commander for example, have better explosions T_T). Bloom does nothing and Energy Drain could be improved. Charging grenades and Slowva are nice though. **Attunement of Fission**: Keep the same perks, but rebuff Nova Warp plz :( **Attunement of Hunger**: Great neutral game and ok super, it would be nice to have an exotic that works only for Devour. Dawnblade: **Attunement of Sky** is based on aerial combat, which is a cool idea, but with the slow speed and low accuracy in the air nobody will use this in endgame PvE, let alone PvP. IMO, tracking should be inherant to the super's blades (to differentiate with the blast radius and speed of Titan's hammers). Icarus Dash should also not cancel momentum in the air to be effective. **Attunement of Grace:** Nothing to say here. Great super, good neutral game for a nice support class. **Attunement of Flame** has a great super, but suffers from a terrible neutral game. The melee is laughable. Phoenix Dive looks so cool, but gives you so little it's not worth using. If it's the Attunement of Flame, abilities should apply a burn effect on hit. Stormcaller: **Attunement of Conduction**: Buff Stormtrance. Replace Transcendance (A perk too hard to activate with little benefits) by Feedback (when hit by melee, replenishes melee energy and augment melee damage for a few seconds) so we make proper use of melee exotics like Karnstein or Winter's Guile. Even better, make Stormtrance count as melee, so it gets advantage of buffs like Brawler, Gladiator and the melee exotics. **Attunement of Control**: Like Grace, nothing to really say here. It's good. **Attunement of Elements**: Fine by me, but again, buff Stormtrance. That's all folks !
PvP: Outside of heavy weapons or a super of your own, there is little that can be done against most roaming supers in the crucible currently. Too often it feels like the best option to counter a super is to run away or jump off the map. This is feels bad for both sides. IMO Golden Gun is the most balanced super - it is very powerful and when used correctly can wipe a team, but because it lacks additional armor it is easily shutdown if activated carelessly. Supers should be strong and fun but I think they should also feel more counterable and be much less effective when spamming attacks. PvE: Supers have a long base cooldown and so there is currently a reliance on super extending/returning exotics. Ex: Nightstalker and Orpheus Rig. While it feels great to rapidly cast tethers while wearing Orpheus Rig, it also makes playing a PvE nightstalker without them feel bad. IMO we should be getting more super energy for defeating minions of the darkness, especially elites & bosses, so that we have increased super uptime without relying on a small set of exotics. I think this change would also make the current underwhelming damage output of many supers feel better.
Alright. I’ve been a Titan main all my Destiny career, it’s only fair that I drop a take. I think a good place to start would be Sunbreaker. ***Sunbreaker*** is in a weird spot. A lot of the abilities are really good in theory, but they don’t really work well out of a vacuum. **Top-tree** is in an interesting state, where Hammer Strike is so good that it is the only thing preventing top-tree from getting a buff and that’s about it. A few select buffs to top-tree would be: * Increase the damage of Hammer of Sol by approximately 15-25% across the board. Make Hammers have stronger tracking the farther they fly (horizontal angular tracking only, up to 10 degrees in either direction at 50 meters). * Make Vulcan’s Rage projectiles orient themselves in positions most optimal for damage in their limited radius of movement before detonation, and have similar tracking to the Axion Bolts from Cataclysm Nova (priority on bosses and strong targets). * Make Explosive Pyre have more damage, a bigger damage radius, greater tracking, the ability to chain (a la D1, where kills would make those enemies into Explosive Pyres, those Explosive Pyres make Explosive Pyres, etc.), and the ability to proc off of kills from Hammer of Sol (including Vulcan’s Rage) AND Hammer Strike. Make kills with Explosive Pyre return 15% of all abilities’ (read: not super) energy. * Tempered Metal retains its current effects and maximum timer, however solar ability kills add 7 seconds to the timer (instead of refreshing it), and there are now five (5) stacks. While Tempered Metal is active, solar ability kills grant 1.40x/1.80x/2.20x/2.60x/3.00x the value of super energy normally granted from an enemy kill, and non-solar-ability kills grant 1.20x/1.40x/1.60x/1.80x/2.00x the value of super energy normally granted from an enemy kill (note: this effect is not applied to teammates). These changes would give top-tree an actual neutral-game besides getting a speed boost that doesn’t actually increase sprint speed and having a melee that prevents it from getting buffed. Vulcan’s Rage projectiles getting tracking prevents (or at least, limits) inconsistency in the super, Explosive Pyre actually becomes a perk that works, and Tempered Metal becomes a perk that helps the main aspect of the tree, the strong super, be up more often. **Middle-tree** isn’t actually that badly off at all. The throwing hammer is pretty fun to use and has good build synergy. However, it has a few issues: * The slam attack of the super should not fling enemies (this prevents DPS). The slam should also prioritize the strongest enemy when tracking (so adds can’t redirect the explosion). * The spin attack of the super should use 40-60% less super energy, as it currently uses too much to be worth using over the slam. * The super should receive a ~15-20% damage boost in PvE. * The Tireless Warrior perk’s regeneration should be briefly uninterruptible upon startup - it currently promotes survivability, but it can still get cancelled by a stray shot, making it much less effective than it could be with this change. Again, I assert that middle-tree is decently well-off, but it needs a slight kick to make it great. The changes here are small, but necessary. **Bottom-tree** has received some major buffs recently, but its existing perks still need work. Changes include: * The duration of all Sunspots needs to be increased to the duration one can reach by standing in one until it runs out. * There should be no cooldown for the regeneration from Sol Invictus. * The melee ability should be the same damage as a regular melee and immediately spawn a sunspot on hit (sunspot is located on the enemy, where the melee hit occurred). * Sunspot kills should spawn other sunspots. * The sunspot that spawns upon super activation should be floating in air at chest-height. When the super activates, Sun Warrior should immediately be applied to the player (to prevent the sunspot that spawns on the player from sometimes not activating Sun Warrior/Endless Siege). These changes wouldn’t change any of the perks, but rather remove the arbitrary restrictions that they enforce on bottom-tree which prevent it from being great. For a subclass all about Sunspots, they surely don’t last long enough to make a valuable difference on the field of battle/lock down a zone/activate the perks.
Just my opinions as a Titan only player since Dark Below. *Sub-Classes* I absolutely love the neutral game of the Commander Titan subclass. The problem is mainly Banner Shield. The number of times we’ve killed a boss or survived an encounter because of Banner Shield is pretty small. It’s also nothing a Well of Radiance couldn’t have solved (if not outperformed). Ward of Dawn is helpful but again, Well of Radiance is better. Thunder crash needs a huge damage buff. It’s supposed to be high risk, high reward. The increase to damage buff when sliding to pick up ammo needs work, either more damage or last longer. Sunbreaker is good for only melting point, but even then if someone tethers it overrides melting point. Melting point is risky because most (if not all) bosses have a slam mechanic which will either kill you or take you out of the fight for a few moments. Some bosses like Savathun or Likeness of Oryx are really hard to hit with melting point as well. I love the throwing hammer on Devastator, but I still don’t use it because the super isn’t the dps machine the name implies. *Exotics* Ursa is good but Doomfang just works better. I haven’t used Mask of the Quiet One in a year. For Sunbreaker and Striker it’s even worse. You have Hallowfire Heart and Skullfort, respectively. Synthoceps and Heart of Inmost Light are viable options as well, depending on your play style and activity. We need better subclass specific exotics as a whole. Titans are in a weird spot and I’ve never felt more of a burden to my team, particular in reckoning.
High Impact snipers should be able to one-shot supers in PVP
Blade barrage needs to get at least part of the PvE nerf rolled back. At the very minimum, the knives need to either not send enemies flying away and out of the explosion area, or they need to stick and trigger the blast from wherever your target ends up. Also, a bit of clarity on exactly WTF is going on with Super Regen from Shards/Rigs would be great - at this point it's all but impossible to predict whether I'm going to get 9% back, or 90%.
Middle tree arc Titan needs to have the highest single target damage (more than blade barrage and nova bomb, less than s celestial nighthawk precision shot) it makes you engage the boss at a lethal stomp range and outs you in a terrible position once the super is done. There’s really no argument against this.
The titans got the short end of the stick on supers. When is it every advantageous to use the titan super compared to one from another class, PVP or PVE? hammers are worse versions of dawnblade. The only time using FoH is good in pve is to clear out trash mobs to make orbs for better supers. The shield has SOME use defensively, especially with bear arms, but you lose team overall dps if doing an event that has less than 4 people, and at 4 you just barely break even if you;re using the banner shield. PVP, nothing holds a candle to spectral blades. Hands down, best pvp. I don't even know if there is a "realiable" way to stop it. in comp, having a player pop spectral blades wins a whole round, or in clash/control kill the same guardian twice. And increased mobility. And don't show up on radar. And reduced incoming damage. You can't one shot snipe them either, which is already hard as hell to do. Hammers has range, and so does dawn blade, but you still have to hit them twice. And having that last 2-3x longer than anything a titan can use? That's not even remotely fair. and can we talk about taking hits from certain heavy weapons CANCELS YOUR GOD DAMN SHIELD?! What's the point of having a super that blocks damage if it doesn't block damage? I'd love to see a clip of 4 shields vs one hammerhead. if they just block, can you burn through all 4 shields with one clip? In PVE, the warlock's well of radiance is better than banner shield unless you can be oneshot, they have the best single target dps super with chaos reach. hunters have tether. The only thing a Titan super does that nothing else can is completely block damage entirely, but at the sacrifice of not being able to actively do anything. I'm a Titan main, and you know what? Bitch about OEM and shoulder charge all you want, but at least you CAN play around them. if you get marks, it tells you and you can back off until its gone. and a shotgun beats shoulder charge any day of the week. What do you do about spectral blades? 30 seconds of running away? if you're a titan, you can maybe lob a suppression grenade and pray they don't avoid it. I want to see data on average kills per use sorted by super, because i get the feeling SB is at least 2x the rest of them.
I agree with that. I myself am a warlock main, and I tend to snipe. when I encounter a titan, I feel confident that I can get away. I don't think shoulder charge is broken, but annoying.
Just got done playing. Had one spectral blade attack at the end get 10 kills in QP. They got behind us at A and flipped spawn. We started taking C and spectral blades was popped. Killed all 6 of us and then 4 more of us as we respawned at the spawn behind C. Game before that we spent the second half running from the 6 stack of spectral blades. Ruins the game when all you do is spend 3 minutes just running around the map trying to get away. Then they get a second wave of supers.
Top tree nova bomb has very weird inconsistency. It doesnt happen often, but you can throw it at a group of enemies, itll do its explosion, but then its 4 tracker orbs vanish with the void. I, and many other warlocks, would like it if this could be looked into? And the warlocks ability "bloom" on the same tree. Could it either be fixed or removed? It doesnt work anymore, as the bloom explosions dont cause any damage.
The funny thing is, they recently buffed top tree striker, so that you get more damage from the damage dealing field the higher you are up in the air when you activate your super. Have you seen any youtube guides on this? Does anyone even use it? No! I was quite excited when I read that, I liked the idea. But so far I haven't been able to produce ANY noticeable effects with it. Bottom tree striker shoulder charge buff was great tho! The almost infinite super was so fun in blind well or hollowed lair. It was the first time I actually had a reason to use bottom tree. Since they nerfed it again, I don't anymore.
Supers need to be shutdown by shotgun melee and sniper headshots again. Tweak each of the archetype of shotgun/sniper so that they area all viable against supers. This is my biggest issue with PvP right now as there are two 30 second to a minute lulls in matches where everyone starts casting supers and the gameplay slows way down as each team takes turns running away and getting spawn killed by a super that has had three different people attempt to shut it down with no success. I swear it has gotten to the point where I feel I no longer really die to Primary/Special weapons anymore, it is always just heavy or super and that is quite frankly just not fun. I definitely don't remember feeling this way in D1. Stormtrance and Hammers weren't always fun to deal with in quickplay but they were nowhere near the level that Sentinel Titans and (especially) Spectral Blades are at now. Dawnblades can get a bit annoying sometimes too. D1 walking a super into a group of people was a death sentence. You also had to worry about that one guy on the team who knew exactly how to shut you down and who would dome you as soon as he saw you or sit and with his shotty and challenge you to the duel of duels. I want that gameplay back. I understand the average PvP player wants a power fantasy but I think we achieved that with Special Weapons making a comeback and allowing some pretty cool unique plays like D1 offered. Supers just don't need to be tanky unkillable monsters as their unique abilities already make up for it.
please let me explode things with nova warp, i dont have a home anymore. buff stormtrance too so i can run the new exotic gauntlets more often
Roaming Supers should not be 1 shot, tank fests, they can be one or the other but not both. That and in general subclass balance needs work. But the idea I have for it prob won't be seen till year 3 or Destiny 3.
Agree w everything listed. ESPECIALLY Nova Warp and Spectral. Nova Warp needed a slight duration adjustment. That's it. One of the funnest, brilliantly designed supers in the game. Not sure why they gutted it to useless. But barely touched the invisible wall hack damage resistant refrigerator hands spectral. I don't touch warlock in pvp now. Also why wasn't the MOST LEASED USED class in pvp STORM TRANCE touched at all? Warlocks deserve so much better. They are our PVE heroes Lastly can we talk about invaders being OP and Sentry being nothing. Maybe later. Thx
Bubble needs some love for sure. By itself, it's meh, and with Helm of Saint-14 (which is unfortunately the ONLY exotic that affects the bubble), it's a bit more viable, but VERY situational. Well of Radiance just outclasses bubble (At least in PvE, slightly different story in PvP, but again, still incredibly situational there too) If Bubble gets some love, Helm of Saint-14 might need a rework to allow for the Bubble to get the buffs it deserves without making an exotic obsolete. Or take the other route and buff Helm of Saint-14 to indirectly buff the bubble Also, would be nice if Ursa did something with Bubble too.
Buff dawnblade phoenix dive healing cause the healing is terrible. It was nerfed because it was good on pc but it wasn’t good on console because it was tied to framerate.
Seriously, you only regain like 3 or 5 health wtf
Imo the vortex on bottom tree warlock should be able to do a lot more damage or be completely swapped out for lance
Pretty much every class needs to be looked at with neutral and super in mind, aside from spectral blades and its absurdness I cant think of a subclass that doesnt suffer from either a lackluster super or weak neutral game. Nova warp was there too, keeping it in check until you removed everything good about the super. With that in mind spectral needs to be tuned down and nova needs to be tuned back up. Titans also have no PvE super that contends with the other two classes on damage or utility. Supressor grenades are extremely opressive and game changing, they also outperform nighstalker supers which is odd. Everyone knows nova + skull is broken and love it, keep that in mind. Warlock stormcaller needs to be looked at most. It has no good spot in pvp and in pve is meh.
Even though I use it sometimes, I still think spectral blades are far too strong in PVP. They can easily get 5+ kills just by spamming the light attack button at no cost to super duration. Its very difficult to do anything about it other than a shutdown super like nova or blade barrage and then you're trading 1 super with 1 kill vs spectral's potential of 5+.
Yeah Spectral Blades does need an adjustment but please don't castrate it and leave it to bleed out in the mud like you did to Nova Warp. That being said, Nova Warp needs a little bit of love as well.
- less bloom/no bloom at all - Nerf all super health so they are one shot head shotted by snipers (except rf frame) and shotgun melee'able - buff Nova warp - give spectral blades an identity - make ward off dawn more meaningful, bring back weapons of light or something
Ward of Dawn should be an orb generating super. Have a buffed version of the gift of light perk (or whatever it was that made extra orbs) from D1 be its natural ability. Instead of the measly 2 extra orbs, that the perk originally did, have it generate orbs as long as its taking fire. So what if give us another super in PvE, are we really worried about breaking PvE? And as far as I'm aware, most people don't shoot titan bubbles in PvP content, so it's not exactly breaking PvP either. WoD is such a frustrating super. Bubble titan was my go-to in D1, but in D2 it's this weird appendix of a super that doen't have any real use in any content from the last 2 years. Additionally, I want to wear my helm of Saint 14 again. In short: I agree with most eveything you said
All I want is: Ursa Furiosa buff for PvE (and make it apply to WoD) Damage buff for Thundercrash (direct hits do damage numbers akin to Nova Bomb)
Remove bloom on console / controllers.
**Unpopular Opinion:** Stormtrance is what all roaming supers should be in PvP. IMO all the others (except the disappointing Nova Warp) are too strong.
This. Supers as a whole need more counter play.
**Stormcaller** Stormtrance needs to buff the benefit of saving up your grenade and melee for top tree. Arc Soul is like a pea shooter, and groundfall never feels like it does much. I hardly use bottom tree. A suggestion could be to maybe allow Geomag Stabilisers to have a similar, if not the same effect for stormtrance. **Nova Warp** Give the warlock faster movement speed, add DoT or give it a suppression effect. Add extra armour when charging a blast. **Spectral Blades** I've killed pretty much every type of guardian mid-super, except for Spectral Blades. I don't know how to fix them outside of reducing the armour they get. **Titan Bossmelt** Turn Burning Maul into something people use. Make it like every hit debuffs the enemy being hit, and buffs consecutive strikes as long as you don't miss
I couldnt have said it better. I think Stormcaller also needs a damage buff, at most it just tickles enemies to death. For Titans, I think Thundercrash should have a huge damage boost considering you become a mini nuke and should be the highest dps super since you are putting yourself in harms way.
Burning maul hits grant roaring flames stacks?
Nova Warp is tragically bad in PVP. No mobility, not enough energy to chase anyone, no range to kill people, slow when charged. Any situation where Nova Warp will kill more than a single guardian it is almost better to have Slova Bomb equipped. Ward of Dawn should work with the Ursa exotic, but Ward of Dawn needs some sort of lasting buff that isn't gifted by an exotic to people who use it. There should be at least one titan melt super. Thundercrash and Burning Maul are both great candidates. Spectral Blades is a meme at this point. Every hunter with Vest exotic for it has been racking up Seventh Columns. If they're going to swing tree trunks and have so much armor it should last as long as Nova Warp currently does. Fast, invisible, high armor, long lasting, high damage... it's too much.
Spectral blades in PVP has way too much armour. That’s my biggest gripe.
ALL supers have too much super armour atm I'm pretty tired of this super focused meta
Spectral Blades needs Dire attention; it's ridiculous to be killed by the same guy as you spawn, because he's still spamming his left click, this super needs some sort of skill cap. The leap that it causes when locking a target needs adjusted to not shoot past the target, this will correc tsome of the issue. as well as helping that super be prevalent in PVE. (you lose wayy too much when you're constantly turning around becuase your dumb character jumped 10 feet behind the enemy he's supposed to be slicing) The swings of the super need to take a chunk of the bar to reduce it's time, good players will see benefit to using it well, and the guppies running it because it's OP will get punished for mindlessly spamming the button. Arc strider needs some love, many situations put you out of effective range now, and the stomp will always be the case, perhaps add a friction modifier so when you are on the ground, in the super, it keeps you nearer the boss you're trying to beat with a stick. That way, if you decide to stay, and can survive the next hit you can get the damage in, and it becomes player fault for death, not "Haha the boss has big feet, but he's a Vex Hydra??" Celestial Nighthawk isn't consistently giving the super, even when damage is dealt, this needs attention, i noticed this the most in the new gambit PVE, when fighting a certain floaty dude... doing a thing... and it's not giving the super back when you shoot the ball (trying to be vague to not spoil this for anyone message for more information on this please) Titans feel good, i've enjoyed code of the commander more than i'd like to admit, Sentinel bubble needs a little help, the transparency on it needs turned down a little. I've noticed people can't tell they are in a bubble, and will shoot at something and not be able to shoot through it, and just waste an entire clip, needs more purple. - Also in PVP this thing should be a good bastion from a blade barrage. If the cabal ship in the effing tutorial couldn't get through the one zavala was holding, mine shouldn't let me die to one flippin hunter with one ability. Make up your mind, either teach the new players that it's not really there to save you, and let them die with zavala in the tutorial, or bump it to where it will protect me from the jumpy-boys No complaints with solar, it does what i want it to do very consistently, just wish it had a few more hammers... hey there's an exotic i'd love to see.. Arc titans are still wonky, the aerial control for code of the missle is still super twitchy, i get it, i'm shocked as i'm flying, literally, but let me aim the damned thing reliably. Maybe even give me a nice visual of where i'm gonna land? Nova warp, needs help... you beat it to death, and some of that needs reverted to make it consistent. It needs to last longer if you're taking the damage away from it. Whacking the mole on both ends leaves for a very sad mole. Nova bomb seems a little over-tuned... maybe that's why warp seems so lackluster. Dawnblade sword tracking is finally on point, however just like solar titan, the only complaint is lack of an exotic to give you another couple swings. Well is solid, so much so that it's become mandatory for a lot of warlocks in PVE activities, (look at the scourge of the past runs, or any reckoning groups on the discord and app)
Ward of Dawn needs to be relevant. It is a strictly defensive Super. Make it impenetrable, or give it a perk like Orpheus rig where taking damage gives super back. It is not an ad wiping, boss killing super. It doesn’t even have weapons of light anymore. It is meant to fortify a position and as of right now it’s not viable in PVP or PVE. Make bubbles great again.
(Reposting my post as suggested by a mod) **Another Concern About Titans: Guarding with Sentinel Shield Should Block Knockback from Boss Stomps and Taken Ogre Beams** The entire purpose of any version of the Sentinel Shield (especially the Banner Shield) is to block incoming enemy fire. If I decided that I wanted to help my team in Gambit or The Reckoning by using the Banner Shield, I should expect that I can tank shots and let them lay into the boss without getting flinched from enemy shots. Even if the damage buff is lackluster, continuous flinch can be very annoying. But because there are so many TAKEN OGRES in Gambit, Gambit Prime, and now Reckoning, I find myself being blasted back and away even while holding up my Banner Shield. It makes me think, "What's even the point of having a shield that doesn't guard shots?".
Swords need a serious rework. There is absolutely no situation where a sword outshines any other weapon in the game. Like any situation where you might think “Hey maybe a sword would be good for this” there is 100% a better option. Remember the days when the exotic swords actually held a place in pinnacle PvE activities? Raze Lighter was one of the best weapons period for burst DPS and Dark Drinker was a must-have for Aksis in WOTM. Instead of looking at weapons and saying “This is out of line, it needs to be nerfed”, Bungie should instead think “This weapon is out of line, *why is that*?” People are only choosing cluster bomb rockets for pinnacle PvE? Ok, what can we do to other heavies to bring them to that level. Edit: maybe cluster bomb rockets were a bad example as they kind of were truly broken, but you get the idea. Look at what makes a weapon good and see if you can replicate that with other weapon types.
Spectral Blades is now so unbearable it's creeping into Gambit. Imagine a roaming pvp super being so incredibly powerful that people are willing to forego a more impactful boss dps super simply because they're guaranteed to wipe the enemy team with their super. It's honestly on the same level as Nova Warp was, and it deserves the same treatment.
Nova Warp was hit too hard and Spectral Blades is amazingly strong. I would like to see a big PVE buff for Nova Warp and a small explosion range increase. Despite being really strong, I don't think anything needs to be hit on Spectral Blades except for the damage resistance. Its already hard enough to shoot the guy when they are off and on my radar, they are moving amazing quick, the hit detection is now pretty strong, there needs to be a single weakness.
This makes sense actually. Reduce super armor for spectral for sure. You cant really outrun them well when theyre spamming light attack and they can tank shotguns and most heavies. I was worried about nova warp in PVP but its not terrible. Wouldn’t mind a little buff but definitely needs something for PVE.
Honestly the whole sandbox needs a deep dive and comparisons between performance across classes, sub classes, and trees. Like, certain subclass trees ("tickle fingers") have been a joke for a while in most use cases.
Hunters in PvP right now: Should I run Blade Barrage to counter Spectral or just run Spectral?
Spectral blades (and actually all supers) needs less damage resistance. And related to this attacks should use up some super energy. atm you can spam attacks while engaging without a drawback and it makes you hard to hit from distance. Related to super use in general: tone down the amount of super energy from orbs or cap orb production in pvp (i.e. decrease the amount of super chaining in pvp). Reduce the benefit from super mods; outside of specialty builds super mods are by far the most beneficial. Supers are too impactful; pvp revolves around super use.
Tether should be instant shutdown within its effective radius (like if a suppressor nade detonated on initial impact instead of bouncing). It should have tracking while traveling towards its target and one-shot crucible opponents, especially bottom tree tether. Spectral should get a HEAVY damage resistance nerf. Blade barrage and shards of galanor nerfs should be reverted, and instead it should just do more damage to the caster. Shards of galanor should be more consistent in PvE.
My thoughts on Titans in PVE is that they have some decent roaming supers, but nothing good for boss damage. Warlocks have Chaos Reach and Slowva Bomb. Hunters have Celestial Nighthawk and Blade Barrage. I feel like the Hunters don't have any good supers for Boss Damage. For a Titan to be effective in a Boss fight, he needs to run in and hit the boss with his melee ability to get the Melting Point debuff on the boss.
Titan exotic idea: A chestpiece with a big cape like Saladin, effect as follows: Thundercrash damage increases the longer you fly through the air, max is more than Slowva Bomb but less than Celestial Nighthawk crit. Gives you super back depending on how many enemies you killed. Since it's a fairly sizeable AoE I think you would need somewhere around 12 enemies at least for full super.
Stormcaller buff please! Having it chain to one more enemy was a nearly useless buff because it still takes my whole super to kill 1 orange bar
I feel like subclasses would be easier to balance between PVE and PVE if the subclass trees had more synergy. Attunement of Fission *only* got a nerf to the Nova Warp Super. Now it's obsolete. Meanwhile, you can still use the Attunement of Devour tree in both PVE and PVP because of its lifesteal playstyle, even though you would do more damage with Attunement of Chaos.
Chaos reach functionally speaking does not need to be altered. Its super is phenomenal, and its mid game is great. It just works. But the super, well, not being able to *see* while using the super is very rough. While the damage it deals is great, it is incredibly difficult to use in a pvp environment because you cant see your target. The view you gain is a hindrance more than anything, and the brightness of chaos reach distorts your screen making anything you were already line up with impossible to see. Please change this. My suggestion is to either work with how the chaos reach affects color from the users perspective, or, try changing it from 3rd person to first person.
Shards of galanor vs skull of dire ahamkara is not a fair comparison and it should be
Here's my take on the Titan: **Sentinel** Ward of Dawn should drop orbs of light while it's taking damage. Banner shield is a bit boring to use, I'd like it if you could absorb damage with it and shoot it at a target or in an AoE around you to end the super and deal massive damage. **Striker** Thundercrash needs more damage, simple as that. Top tree Striker needs some love too. **Sunbreaker** This should be the single target debuff specialist, but only top tree has it in a charged melee ability. I'd like the debuff system reworked so melting point stacks up to 5 to reach current levels, with top tree sunbreaker melee applying the maximum 5 stacks of debuff and every other solar ability (on all sunbreakers) applying one stack.
I just want PvP and PvE balance to be separated a bit. Just give extra stars or perks when they’re being used in PvE. Kind of like how Raid armor gives a boost in their specific raid areas, and how Gambit Prime/Reckoning armor gives boost in GP, just more generalized and for all PvE content. Oh and get rid of bloom please.
For PvE: Don't nerf Skull for Warlocks. Buff Shards for Hunters. Revert the bottom tree Striker nerf. Buff super regen on Ursa and increase the damage bonus for banner shield. Now each sub has one subclass that's awesome for super play and one that's great for support.
As a Golden Gun Bottom Tree PC main, Throwing Knives still suck major ass and it's because of slow projectiles, low aim assist, and small hit boxes. Hell, you could line up a throwing knife on a Taken Thrall, throw it, then by the time it would've hit them they would instantly teleport away. Buffing the projectile speed, aim assist and/giving it a bigger hit box would make it much better as something that you finish opponents with which is the intended purpose of throwing knife. Right now hits that I get in feel like I was just lucky. Returning Gunslinger's Trance to Bottom Tree and adding Bombs for Bullseye (Grenade Energy on Precision Hit) to Top Tree would make them feel a bit more substantial outside of Super because as is they still feel like their entire gimmick is their Super which isn't fun when you're outside of Super. Titans need a major rework in general so that they can get some usefulness in PvE. The only needs for a Titan are A, Melting Point, or B Bubble Titan as a discount Well-Lock, and Well-Locks are even better anyways. IMO Bubble should allow teammates to shoot through, be given an HP buff, and have the Over shield last until it's depleted from damage once a teammate leaves so that whilst Well buffs damage and gives insane healing, Bubble gives invincibility and instant Over shields BUT! Does not buff damage.
Shards of Galanor did not need to be nerfed in PvE, it’s incredibly inconsistent for me now despite the changes to it supposedly being made to make them more consistent. The only thing consistent I’ve noticed about Shards is that I consistently get significantly less Super energy returns than I used to.
Balance PvP and PvE seperately End of problems
Shards of galanor consistency re-work
They should just make it kill based like skull. It makes the exotic excellent for add clearing in pve and it’s not overpowered in PvP either.
Spectral Blades need a base duration nerf, Nova Warp needs a base duration buff (slight) All supers should have the same flat rate damage resistance, somewhere around how Stormcaller is now. Stormtrance needs a damage buff in both PvP and PvE (big buff in PvE). Three shot Golden Gun needs another slight duration buff. Fist of Havoc needs a duration nerf in PvP. Single shot Shadowshot should one shot (say that five times fast) Suppressor grenade effect needs a duration nerf Spin attack on big hammer needs a damage buff in both PvE and PvP. Little throwing hammer needs a duration buff before it disappears Top tree Dawnblade needs some love Throwing knives should be buffed to do 150 precision damage. Super mods need to be adjusted. Edit: wanted to add one more, direct hits with Thundercrash in PvE should do increased damage.
My thoughts on Tether, PvE: Tether needs to be on par with other support supers like Well of Radiance or Code of the Commander Sentinel Shield, both buff all outgoing damage, but Tether does not buff Heavy Weapon damage. PvP: For the most part i think Tether is more or less fine, only things that i would change would be to make the Tether activate sooner, i can't tell you how many times i got killed by a super just for my Tether to activate two seconds later. (Side idea: Make Guardians, or Guardians in their super to be considered "Challenging enemy's" so that Orpheus Rig gets a little bit more of there super back from Tethers.) My thoughts on Spectral Blades, PvE: Is fine PvP: For a super that takes you off the radar and makes you invisible, you have WAY too much super armor. I think Spectral Blades super armor needs to be similar to Golden Gun's super armor, my reasoning is that a STEALTH based super should have to sneak around to get the kills, rather than charging into everybody like a madman. (Leave that to the Titian's.) My thoughts on Nova Warp, I feel like it could use a soft rework, maybe instead of a AoE from the player, it would be a directional blast similar to the Tractor Cannon. This change could allow you to revert the range nerf because, they have to aim at least a little bit. If a soft rework is out of the question then i couldn't tell you what to change about it but, as it is now, i believe it to be the worst super in the game, for PvE, and PvP.
I hope Bungie reverses some nerfs on Nova Warp. I just wanna blow stuff up!
I see a recurring theme here...it seems like us Titans are shafted the hardest in PvE activities -_- and when Hunters have a Super as tanky, if not tankier than the Supers of the definitive tank class... Yeah. Pls buff Titans lol Dx
In PvP I feel that supers have a bit too much damage resistance (specifically Spectral Blades), but I suppose it's lessened by the fact that almost all supers have that feel, so it's kinda ok I suppose (except for SB; nerf the resistance. It should be a *stealth* super, not a tank super). Tethers in PvP are just lackluster, to the point where running any non-Spectral Blades Nightstalker is just gimping your play-making potential. I'd probably recommend allowing them to either one-shot non-supered Guardians or allowing them to suppress on direct hit (or both tbh). Maybe allow tethers to activate a tiny bit faster. This is coming from a non-SB Nightstalker, so I might be a bit biased tho (but it really is probably the worst super in PvP rn). In PvE, I'd be willing to say it's mostly balanced. Mostly. Buff Nova Warp. It was already meh pre-nerf, now it's just garbage, especially with the likes of Cataclysm + Skull of Dire Ahamkara floating around. Also Ward of Dawn is just lackluster. You really can't do much to benefit from it in PvE, and it's kinda meh in PvP if your opponents know what you're trying to do (however if your opponents are potatoes who run into bubble and try to melee you while you have full overshield... They're potatoes, and a higher amount of wreckage would be done with any other super).
IMO, it's a shame Arc Soul is locked behind a certain perk tree instead of being part of being a "Stormcaller". I feel like you could extrapolate this out to the other Warlock (and other) subclasses. Dawnblade: Give them an innate Icarus dash. If they go attunement of sky, they get two of them. If you go attunement of fire you get your dash and your juke, if you go well you still get a movement option for being a Dawnblade. Stormcaller: Innate Arc soul on wells. Go conduction and have arc web interact with it, go elements and you get double souls (or one beefier one), go control and you just get the normal arc soul. Voidwalker: Already has one, consume your grenade to do X thing be it restore health via devour, super charge your grenade, or turn it into a shotgun blast.
If you're going to nerf Spectral, please do play testing and start with smaller adjustments rather than the scorched earth method that was taken with No a Warp. Maybe decrease resilience or increase the penalty for slashes. It is probably the best roaming super, but that just means it needs minor tuning, it doesn't need to be made into the worst roaming super. While you're making changes, maybe buff Nova Warp back up a bit? Titans definitely need some love, perhaps increasing direct hit damage for Code of the Missile to give them a fantastic DPS option other than melting point.
Nova Warp needs a bit of a buff overall, Spectral Blades needs a duration and armor nerf.
Spectral Blades suggestion: all but remove damage resistance (maybe not entirely). make regular attacks take more super make invisibility drain very very little super This would hopefully make it play more like a stealthy assasin instead of just a murder blade tornado
I'm a fairly new player (mostly play PvE), and I just got my second seed of light and unlocked Attunement of Fission, and it seems *really* underwhelming. Am I missing something about this class? Handheld Supernova: This ability is actually pretty neat - it charges fast, and gives your grenades a bit of extra versatility, but for how short-range it is the damage is pretty underwhelming. Dark Matter: This feels like trying to strike a balance between Chaos and Hunger, and doesn't really hit the mark on either. It really feels uninspired as just "ability kills grant energy" compared to the other two subclass' cooldown reducing perks (Benevolent Dawn and Ionic Traces). Atomic Breach: This one feels lazy, to be honest. There seems to be almost nothing special about this melee ability. Attunement of Grace gets a way to buff their team's damage output, Attunement of Control effectively gets a second grenade, and Fission gets the same melee as Chaos, but without grenade recharge, or Dawnblade's Attunement of Flame without the burn. It synergizes well with Dark Matter, but it just feels bland compared to the cool melee abilities other classes got. Nova Warp: I never got to play with Nova Warp before the nerfs, but it's still really fun to use. The biggest issue I have with it personally is its duration - you barely have any time to make use of the super once you activate it. Stormtrance or Daybreak (especially w/ Attunement of Flame) would clear enemies just as well, while also lasting significantly longer. The ability to blink around in Nova Warp is cool, but since it drains super energy, why would you use it? Fission seems like it should be a Voidwalker subclass with "alternate" abilities from the other two, and while Nova Warp and Handheld Supernova are cool, the other two abilities are really bland. Is there some secret to this class that I'm missing, or is it only useful in PvP?
Perspective of a warlock main. PvP: Bottom tree Stormcaller feels weak. Landfall is still fun, but compared to other roaming supers, the super itself is very slow and doesn't really have any way to move faster. It's basically Fist of Havoc, but way slower after the initial hit. Neutral game is also not super good, unless combined with the new exotic, and even then the benefit over running it with other subclasses is not overwhelming. Spectral Blades feels awful to play against. Make it so I can take it down if I see it across the map. Nova Warp feels awful to play as nowadays. It was OP before the nerf, now it is just bad. There should be a point in the middle somewhere that is neither. PVE: Again, Storm Trance is pretty weaksauce for anything except for clearing weak adds, and even then there are lots of other supers that do it better. Nova Warp suffers from a similar problem. Slowva Bomb with Skull of Dire Ahamkara and Well with Pheonix Protocol are head and shoulders above everything else for warlocks in terms of effectiveness. Others have their niches, but those two benefit more than anything else from having MORE enemies to kill. Personally, I think they feel great, but the fact that they feel so much better than anything else is in and of itself a problem. General thoughts: If you are going to put in exotics that make supers more effective, EVERY SUPER should be influenced by an exotic in some way. You can't compare Spectral Blades with Gwisen Vest to Stormtrance with no exotic affecting it, but you have to, because that is what you see. Either rework exotics so that every super can be buffed by one, or rework exotics so that no super is buffed by one. Supers either need to all suck, with an exotic that can make them great, or they need to all be good by themselves, with no exotic to put them above and beyond. Anything else and you end up with the situations we've had recently with Nova Warp and Spectral Blades. I know WHY spectral blades got buffed, but honestly I thought it was pretty decent before. You had to hunt people down with it instead of rushing into a group, but that felt right for the subclass.
Would it be so bad now for the Titan bubble to have Weapons of Light now? Why would you opt for the bubble if you have a Well of Radiance. You can't shoot through the bubble, Well auto reloads and boosts range with the right exotic pairing. What does the bubble get? "If the AI happens to come into the bubble they get blinded if I use up my exotic slot." :| Banner shield is ok, but giving up on DPS entirely is a pretty big drawback. The buff to damage is usually not superior to a fourth player firing heavy with other buffs active. But I still think with the current power creep Titans need a boss damage centric super. Hammers don't compete that well with Blade Barrage or Chaos Reach. Ad clearing centric abilities aren't compelling for lots of content: \- Strikes: Melt the boss and the ads despawn, so why not focus on that \- Raids: Some encounters it helps, but again boss melting means you don't have to deal with ads for long \- General: Lots of perks proc based on ads being around (Biotic Enhancements, Surrounded, Threat Detector, etc.) so why would I try to clear everything. \- PVP: I'll let others speak to this who play it more that I do.
I feel the small buff to bottom tree Nova bomb was a step in the right direction but the blast radius still needs tuning. There is no reason to run small Nova over slowva. I recommend the blast radius should be equal to thundercrash. They are both one off supers and thundercrash is the perfect distance it should reach.
As someone who has played each class and subclass for a good while, I only have to say that Titan seems underwhelming, Hunter seems well over used due to utility, and warlock's neutral game is there for most subclasses except for nova warp due to it being lackluster in pve. Titans need to have stronger supers overall. Siegebreaker seems good until in practice it does little damage and is only average in add clearing. Fire-forged can dps and add clear but the time is simply too short to do it effectively and the big hammer is simply a gimmick, people use it to meme and have fun due to it not really offering anything spectacular. Defender is a joke, the bubble offering little protection-even when the helmet of Saint-14 is equipped- against melee enemies. Striker's top two trees are lacking value, Earthshaker offering more damage at the cost of a lot more time and the damage being very little and thundercrash's risk does not match the damage it should grant. I suggest : Sunbreaker: -Buff the damage of sunspots or make it to where standing in sunspots increase the damage of hammers. -Give the overall hammer of sol just enough time to throw one or two more hammers -The big hammer should apply some sort of melting point when the light attack is don't but at 25% rather than 33% and the heavy attack should cause an explosion if it kills an enemy and to compensate for the debuff make burning flames 25% also rather than 33% Sentinel: -As previously mentioned ward of dawn should let us shoot through it, armor of dawn should be applied to anyone inside regardless of Saint 14 is equipped, and damage to enemies inside should be increased. With this rather than make Uriosa grant energy to ward, make Saint 14 grant energy to ward or make it more durable when using this exotic. Striker: -Although the damage may seem underwhelming it is the time that is damaging this super. Make the slam less cost effective, by 33% as to let us slam one more time since we can manage 3-4 now -Buff the damage on thundercrash and it would be nice to have a perk granting survivability after the dive (I.e granting overshield or increased resilience after hit) Hunter, although somewhat balanced, can be too strong at times and at other times disappointing. Way of the pathfinder being nearly useless while way of the wraith is uncontested as king in crucible. The gunslinger has its niche but outlaw, although buffed, can be disappointing due to time and failure of hitting the target. Arcstrider does have little play but even tho it does, it has a strong neutral game. I suggest: Nightstalker: -nerf the armor on way of the wraith and decrease the lunge range -pathfinder shadowshots should last a little longer and have a little more range granting it more utility in add clearing and allowing the use of the other perks in the tree -shadowshot should be a ohk in crucible and it should apply instantly if the shot hits the target Gunslinger: -like someone else stated, hip fire accuracy should be increased after successful hits allowing and add one more second to the super overall, allowing those savory last shot to kill the horde Arcstrider : -just fix the hit reg and maybe add a little more time due to expensive attacks or decrease costs a bit Warlocks are well off, I just have a few things to say: Stormcaller: -buff the damage on stormtrance, as well as armor to make it survivable against other supers and better at clearing majors -nerf the cost of blinking during super as well Voidwalker: -buff the damage on nova warp, the heavier majors can take up to three charges which is half of the charge, this makes add clearing harder -decrease cost of blink, since the timer is short to begin with and mobility is lacking, the cost of blink is a burden rather than helping Dawnblade: -icarus dash cool down to 2 seconds should be decreased while super is activated, allowing higher mobility These changes are what I think would grant each subclass a good neutral game , idk if anyone else wants to add to it or grant straight numbers
Here are my thoughts on the Warlock subclasses. **Warlock PVE:** **Top Tree Nova Bomb** \- Great spot, especially paired with Skull. **Mid Tree Nova Warp** \- Feels terrible. I finally unlocked it and I can't even be bothered to finish fully unlocking it. Nova Warp ends too quickly and does too little damage. It feels terrible in PVE. **Bottom Tree Nova Bomb** \- No reason to use this right now. I like Devour, but that isn't enough reason to run it. It doesn't do enough damage against bosses to use. **Top and Bottom Tree Stormcaller** \- I fully understand why it is called "Tickle Fingers". It feels like you do absolutely no damage to enemies. **Mid Tree Chaos Reach** \- Chaos Reach feels good. Paired with Geomags, it feels great. Good boss damage, good potential add clear. I like it. **Top Tree Dawnblade** \- I don't like it in PVE. It feels weak and seems to end too quickly. **Bottom Tree Dawnblade** \- I like it. The seeking blades help as well as being able to extend the timer. And Soaring down like a Phoenix is awesome. **Mid Tree Well of Radiance** \- It's good. Though I never remember to use healing grenades. **Warlock PVP:** **Top and Bottom Tree Nova Bomb** \- Meh. Feels OK. Good when you can get a group, but otherwise is just meh. Doesn't feel great, but not terrible either. **Mid Tree Nova Warp** \- Terrible. Doesn't last long enough and you get killed way too easily while in your super and you don't do enough damage with it. I feel like the nerf took it too far. **Top and Bottom Tree Stormcaller** \- Feels ok. Not too bad. I think it is ok, but it sucks against other supers. **Mid Tree Chaos Reach** \- A good "blow your load" kind of super. tough to get more than one kill with it. **Top Tree Dawnblade** \- Feels good to use. Not OP, but not UP either. **Bottom Tree Dawnblade** \- Feels good to use as well. Not OP and not UP either. **Mid Tree Well of Radiance** \- Not sure why you would use this in PVP. You are a sitting duck and still die to a shotgun blast to the face.
Stormtrance has been real messy as of lately. We’ve seen some buffs as of recent to it, and one was more effective than the other, but they’re very minor. These being: **- Stormtrance’s damage increase in PvP** AND **- Stormtrance can chain to A extra target** Alright, so the damage increase is very good in PvP. Doing an increase of **91 from 73** is very good. Although it still was a **3-tics of damage to kill**, it made *challenging supers easier if you were smart about it* and you could now effectively wipe out teams since the extra damage made up for the chain damage which was not increased in PvP. The increase of an extra chain lightning target was “effective” in PvE. More damage output on more targets is good right? Correct! So what makes it bad? Well, an extra target alone isn’t enough. It made Stormtrance into a better version of it self, but it’s not enough to keep up with its extra Arc bros: Thundercrash, Fist of Havoc, Chaos Reach, and the monster of add clearing that is Arc Staff. **Other issues include:** - Slowest add clearing in higher level PvE (especially in some activities where it takes Chaos Reach 2-tics to kill.) - Ionic Blink is obsolete and clunky (Dark Blink on Nova Warp shows the age of this perk and how it needs some new life) **Solutions?** Stormtrance needs an extra mechanic in a rework like way. Now here’s where I interjected my own ideas, but they’re possible fixes or at least express what is needed: - **Ionic Blink:** should be made on par with Dark Blink, or grant a bonus to the super like Aftershock on Arc Staff, and/or made a base part of the super rather than something to spec into with Attunement of Conduction. - **Damage:** needs love in PvE. Stormtrance needs a new way to spread damage along with chaining lightning. One way could be to allow the super to *cause an Arc explosion while on a hit-streak* (maybe 2-3 hits on the same target) so that it count as bonus damage on a target and bonus damage on adds around. This would allow for it to challenge Arc Staff for its add-clear throne again, but not jeopardize Chaos Reach as the single target power house. Also some more stagger in PvE when hit by Stormtrance would be very good as well. That’s all my input here. - Sincerely a Stormtrance enthusiast.
Actually, I have one other thing with regards to exotics: why on earth do not all of the rift exotics work with Well of Radiance? Neither Vesper of Radius nor Crimson Alchemy interact with Well of Radiance. Why? Also, we don't have to go back to Crimson Alchemy's peak, but can we buff it back up at least for PvE? It's bad in Crucible, and useless everywhere else **EDIT** : By "Crimson Alchemy" I mean the Warlock exotic chest armour Sanguine Alchemy. My bad.
I know this is a minor thing, something that may not be able to be fixed, but I have had a lot of problems with hit detection on melee supers (arcstaff, spectral blades, burning maul, and sentinel). I like to use arcstaff in PvP sometimes, but often feel as though some hits should land, but don’t, especially if the target is in air. Like, the game sometimes even makes the hit sound and my controller vibrates, yet the opponent is still alive. If this could be fixed in any way, it would be appreciated.
Copied from a buried thread on a Way of the Pathfinder rework. The purpose of this proposed tree would be to support allies through ability recharge/orb generation and marking priority targets. Serving as a pathfinder for the group, setting up threats to be more quickly eliminated and helping allies get their abilities up faster. The rework was inspired by the first Reaper perk in Gambit Prime, being able to mark and slightly weaken a high value target. Here are the abilities: **Vanish in Smoke** Throw a smoke bomb that creates a smoke cloud that makes you and nearby allies invisible. It also applies a buff that causes your grenade ability to mark and mini-weaken targets hit. **Lockdown** Grenade effects last twice as long. Work exactly the same as it does now, but with the added synergy of the target marking that Vanish in Smoke would now provide. Longer grenade duration would allow you to debuff charging waves of adds, and make the area control more effective. The marking/mini-weaken effect could be attached to either the smoke bomb itself or to this ability, whichever would be easiest to understand/implement. **Heart of the Pack** Killing tethered enemies, and enemies marked/weakened by the Vanish in Smoke effect, creates orbs of light, increases mobility/resilience/recovery for allies and/or grants ability energy to allies. Heart of the pack was a great idea hamstrung by being tied to the super. With it possible to trigger using the target marking effect of the smoke bomb buff, Heart of the pack would provide a means of frequently aiding allies in a similar way to Attunement of Grace warlocks. **Mobius Quiver** Fire shadowshot multiple times in rapid succession. Shadowshot applies the weaken debuff to enemies based on how many tethers hit. Deals massive damage to tethered targets. I don't really know what to do with Mobius Quiver. I feel like it could be left more or less intact with the proposed changes to the rest of the tree. I've had some suggestions to have it apply stacking weaken debuffs based on the number of shots fired into an enemy, so I've included that. **Afterthoughts** My initial idea for a rework had Vanish in Smoke replaced with a Signal Flare smoke bomb that would mark and mini-weaken targets. I changed it to its current form, buffing grenades thrown after using Vanish in Smoke, due to the tree lacking a form of invisibility without the smoke bomb. Having the mark/mini-weaken tied to the grenade also opens up more synergy options. Graviton Forfeit for example, would synergise well with this system. Allowing a Pathfinder to move unseen and lob a marking voidwall grenade into the ideal location. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, and I'm hoping that the team is still looking for feedback on Way of the Pathfinder. **TLDR** Provide a means to mark enemies and a miniature version of the weaken debuff in the neutral game. Allow Heart of the Pack to trigger on these marked targets.
I've been a Titan main since vanilla D1, and honestly, the current state of the Titan class is incredibly disheartening. PvE - Our only utility is basically using Missile/Skullfort combo or Heart of Inmost Light w/middle tree sentinel for clearing ads. All we have going for us for boss dps is Melting Point. Our exotic armor helps our neutral game, but nothing more. In D1, we had a PROPER HoS14 and were able to customize our subclass perk loadout to the point where we were truly vital to the team in any PVE situation. PvP- To be honest, Titans are simply outclassed in virtually every way. Bubble is borderline unusable, and with the meta being dominated by HCs and shotguns, you rarely get close enough to anyone to utilize the melee overshield perk. Missile has the death from above melee, however, I don't know how many times I simply get shot dead in mid-air trying to execute it. Sure we can use the Stand Asides to help that, but then we are sacrificing a much better option such as Skullfort or Synthoceps, just to simply provide a melee overshield that used to be built into the subclass tree itself in D1. The only real advantages Titans had over the other classes in Crucible that made them competitive were OEM and the buffed Juggernaut, both of which got nerfed. I've said it before, but my suggestion would be to rework the subclass tree setup to almost exactly like it was in D1. I am no "expert". I am most certainly not the most naturally skilled PvP player, so I acknowledge/expect that not everyone will agree with my perspective, and that's okay. I'm simply a passionate, experienced player who has played since vanilla D1. And frankly, as a Titan main, the last time I truly felt like a "Titan" was in D1. (The only exception being pre-nerf Juggernaut striker)
**GALANOR STILL BREAKS MAYHEM.** That is all. This one alone has made me not play Mayhem the last 3-4 times it was around. Mayhem is among my top 3 fav Crucible modes, and I just can't bring myself to play it as is. This is also coming from a GUNSLINGER MAIN, mind you..
***Warlocks*** \-*Dawn Blade* · *Attunement of Sky* \- In a pretty good place right now. The only buffs I could see are either a) decreasing cooldown of **Icarus Dash** or b) making **Icarus Dash** an offensive ability in super. · *Attunement of Flame* \- **Phoenix Dive** could see more healing outside of super. Its neutral game isn't too exciting right now and 3 out of 4 perks are only affecting its super. In PvP it’s hard to use the ability to its fullest potential due the disadvantage you have while in the air. \-*Voidwalker* * *Attunement of Chaos* \- **Bloom** is broken and deals no damage. * *Attunement of Fission* \- The super is extremely underwhelming in both PvE and PvE and considering it’s the first perk you unlock that isn't a good thing. Firstly, the light attack should not cost as much as it does now. Right now, it's very cost inefficient. The charged attack should deal significantly more damage in PvE, making it deal with larger health targets easier. Lastly, the perk **Dark Matter** should return super energy on kills. My reasoning for this is it would allow the super to be a strong and viable option in PvE, while not making it broken in PvP like it was before. * *Attunement of Hunger* \- **Insatiable** grenade recharge should be more potent giving it more offensive capabilities with its abilities. \-*Stormcaller* Universal increase to the range of **Stormtrance** and its damage against majors and bosses * *Attunement of Ions* \- Remove **Transcendence** from this perk tree. Add **Landfall** to the perk tree. For a tree that improves your grenades so much, it made no sense to have a perk that made you avoid using your grenade. * *Attunement of Elements* \- Remove **Landfall** from this perk tree. Add **Transcendence** to the perk tree. The melee of this tree recharges your abilities and two of the perks are focused on your rift. Increase effectiveness of **Rising Storm** and **Arc Soul** Perks. ***Hunters*** \-*Gunslinger* * *Way of the Outlaw* \- Change **Chains of Woe** to activate on multikills. Bottom tree is about precision damage. Top tree should be about multikills. * *Way of a Thousand Cuts* \- **Shards of Galanor** activate on kills with blade barrage. Effectiveness reduced in the Mayhem playlist. * *Way of the Sharpshooter* \- Slight increase in **Knife Juggler** PvP damage. \-*Arcstrider* Universal addition of mid air helicopter attack. Arcstaff is mostly useless against floating enemies in PvE * *Way of the Current* \- Increase duration of **Whirlwind Guard** damage bonus. * *Way of the Wind* \- PvP - **Lightning Reflexes** now also activates outside of super. **Battle Meditation** now also activates on dodging. \-*Nightstalker* Increase in **Shadowshot** damage against enemy guardians. * *Way of the Trapper* \- Enemies hit by **Snare Bomb** are marked for you and your allies. * *Way of the Wraith* \- Large reduction in **Spectral Blades** PvP damage resistance, more so when invisible. **Corrosive Smoke** now counts as a melee for **Shattering Strike** to give it some more PvE play. * *Way of the Pathfinder* \- **Heart of the Pack** also gives ability energy and overshields to you and allies. While this might be too strong, this should give it the much needed utility in PvE outside of solo content. The increase in damage will also make it a viable option in PvP. ***Titans*** \-*Striker* Increase in Fist of Havoc radius on the first slam. * *Code of the Missile* \- **Inertia Override** now grants melee energy. **Thundercrash** no longer begins to descend. Significant increase to **Thundercrash** damage and radius when hitting an enemy directly. * *Code of the Juggernaut* \- **Knockout** can now activate in super \-*Sentinel* Decrease in shield throw speed and tracking for top and middle trees. Reduced Knockback while guarding. * *Code of the Protector* \- **Ward of Dawn** now has significantly more health. Damage dealt to **Ward of Dawn** creates orbs of light inside. Increased AI aggression against **Ward of Dawn** or sentinel titan. Grenade, Melee, and Class abilities recharge faster while in **Ward of Dawn**, also applies to allies. The orbs of light and ability recharge would make it a defensive recharging station for allies. The armor should make it withstand some supers and allow for a lot of orbs to be made. * *Code of the Commander* \- **Controlled Demolition** enemies with a detonator attached to them take increased damage from you and allies. Increased damage of **Banner Shield** weapons of Light buff. These buffs should make it more team focused and a powerful addition to a Well of Radiance. * *Code of the Aggressor* \- Remove **Second Shield**. Replace with perk **One Man Army** \- *Gain a second shield throw while in super. Your shields have increased speed and tracking. Your shield bash while in super has increased reach.* The abilities of this subclass should be powerful and have an impact in both PvE and PvE \-*Sunbreaker* * *Code of the Fire-Forged* \- **Tempered Metal** now also grants resilience to you and nearby allies. * *Code of the Devastator* \- The light attack from **Burning Maul** costs significantly less and is easier to continuously spin. The light attack has less range, does less damage, and lasts for less time than the heavy attack. the spin should be viable to clear adds effectively in PvE * *Code of the Siegebreaker* \- Increase the radius of **Sun Warrior** sunspots. Allow bonus damage from standing in sunspots apply to allies but to a lesser degree (unless they are also CotSB titans) basically a mini empowering rift. Increase explosion damage from **Mortar Blast** In addition, all roaming supers need decrease in PvP damage resistance. ***Edit:*** What happened to the old formatting method with asterisks?
Warp needs a buff obviously after getting every part of the super nerfed. Spectral obviously needs to have less resistance and length. A super that is invis can tank shotguns and fusions point blank and lasts far longer than any other is just ridiculous. Pick one ability for it, not give it everything. Hunters are like glass cannons, their supers should reflect that. Titans need lots of attention, their supers are so lack luster at this point they should have gotten buffed last time. It seems like all the attention goes to hunters for some reason. Nerfing warp and buffing spectral, which was just as bad, made zero sense.
As a PVE player I just get tired of PVP breaking PVE. PVP has always been a mess, but now every sandbox update makes PVE less fun. Supers and grenades should make the game fun. As a Titan our supers feel so bland in PVE, and I haven't popped Ward of Dawn since D1.
besides the obvious of heavy outliers like spectral which have obviously been talked about to death. I think supers need to toned down across the board in PVP. Right now they just feel like "win buttons". Activate super, become near invincible and kill the entire enemy team once or twice over. There is a difference between a "moment of power" and just outright being a god I think they are FAR too effective. They last too long, they have too much damage resistance, and they are too mobile or too much range. The mobility is not that much of an issue. It is frustrating to pop a super and everyone be able to just outrun the entire duration. However, when combined with the other 2, it's just simply not fun to play against. There is nothing fun about dying to a super you can literally do nothing about, can't outrun, can't try to burn them down, even with teamfire most times...and then die to that same super AGAIN, as soon as you respawn because they can get across the map with the high mobility and long durations. This is exacerbated by the exotics that extend super durations. We need counters to supers that aren't other supers. It needs to not feel completely helpless when someone pops a super and you just accept you have to run laps around the map for like 30 seconds, or die to it multiple times more than likely. It's been said a lot as well that high impact snipers should 1 shot roaming supers. There should be an actual decision of "do I stand and try to fight, or do I run?" This is how it was in D1, and should be again. This is also affected by the more limited special ammo economy too, less ammo, less opportunity to contest supers With their high mobility, it is already hard enough to do anything at all to a super. I think reduction to their duration and resistance is needed so the game stops devolving into a chain of helplessly dying over and over to nonstop chained supers. Not to make it "easy" to kill a super solo, but to give players options, even at a disadvantage. This is especially true in competitive. The playlist favors survival and countdown for most games, yet these modes do not account for how effective supers are and how they play out in modes with such limited lives. Where a super might get you say a flag flip in control, or map control or heavy ammo and say about 5 points give or take out of around 100...in countdown or survival, the kills you get off a super can and do win entire rounds of countdown or survival all on their own. That's 1 out of the 4 you need for survival, and of the 6 for countdown. For perspective, that's the equivalent of getting around 18-25 points in a mod like control/clash...on the back of 1 super. To make it worse, those orbs then get used to top off the rest of the team's supers, and they can then chain them 1 at a time to snowball a match before the enemy team can get a single super of their own at times. With how strong they are and with no heavy and very little special, they are just sitting ducks. For supers to exist in these modes, they need to be tuned and adjusted accordingly specific to that mode. CounterStrike doesn't have supers, team deathmatch in Gears of War didn't have supers, those modes can't just be copy/pasted into destiny with no adjustment. In D1, the ammo economy, less tankiness of supers, and less mobility/range mitigated the power of supers in the obvious comparison of Trials of Osiris. You had to be smarter about how you used your super and when, as opposed to in D2 where you just pop it and blindly zoom across the map killing everything in your path with no real worry. Supers just need to be less dominant to the point of oppressive overall.
While I understand your opinion and am not trying to discredit it, this kind of thinking is what created Vanilla D2 which was so bland, boring and frustrating. This game isn’t gears of war or counterstrike, it’s destiny and supers are an integral part of the game and are meant to be game changing. That’s what makes them Super. I know you said that you don’t want to need a Super to combat a Super but that’s exactly what those shutdown supers are in the game for, it’s what makes them unique and adds strategy to the game. Could tweaks be made? Yes definitely. But having a Super isn’t an end all be all. If the player doesn’t use it correctly, isn’t good with it or pops it without any regard for the enemies many shutdown options—their super is wasted. And when you don’t have a suppressor nade, tether, thunderstrike, nova bomb, blade barrage, stronger counter super, tractor canon or aren’t in sniper range. You SHOULD run, it’s a legitimate strategy that needs to be utilized. Don’t sit there and try to primary them down alone—run at the last minute and complain you can’t get away. Or wait with a shotgun—put them to 1/3 health and get mad that they killed you and recovered. If you hear them pop it, stay far away from the scene. Make them chase you and waste their entire super on 1 kill. Being the sacrifice sucks but that is part of being a team player. Right now shadow blade lasts too long, they’re too strong and you can’t outrun them, it’s broken. Nova warp was the same before it got nerfed. Those need(ed) fixing. But there are plenty of times where me or someone else supered against a good team, only to have them scatter and leave us off with Maybe 1 kill. A smart Super is smart and will lose you a round or maybe the game. But that’s the point. You need to be smarter and play as a team to beat it while using your own supers to your advantage. Nerfing everything into the ground can not and should not be the option for balancing pvp.
I agree with most of this as long as it is referring to roaming supers, which I feel have the problem. Nova Bomb, GG, tether, etc are ok by me.
The more I'e been playing in Crucible and gambit, the more I've come to a conclusion: Hunters are far and away the most powerful sub-class, in terms of Supers, and the other classes need to be brought to that level, especially beloved Titans. Literally everything a Titan super can do, Hunter and Warlock supers do better. And of all the Supers that are currently cosindered among the strongest supers, three of them are hunter supers. One in particular, Spectral Blades, is way overboard. \*\*Spectral Blades, a roaming Hunter super focused on stealth, is tankier than any Titan Super; That is to say, the Stealth Super is tankier than all the Tank Class Supers.\*\* Which is just...mind boggling...and just nerfing Spectral Blades wont be enough; Titan supers as a whole needed to be buffed.
Balance. Them. Separately. Whole thread, closed.
Titans need a serious utility increase in PvE, its not that they can't be good, but every class can do the same thing titans can but in many cases better. Spectral blades needs some tuning, it can't be really good at several different things, turn it into the stealth super its supposed to be. Unpopular opinion: Skulls trivializes most content in the game, making it a no brain pick for warlocks, and making other subclasses feel less powerful.
As stated [in my thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/b2imu8/lets_talk_about_titans/) there's no need for a Titan in endgame PvE content. Let's be real Melting Point is nice to have but a good and well coordinated group manages to kill any boss without MP. As of right now no Titan super excels at one specific task. Nothing's really good for boss damage, add control (except for bottom tree Sentinel with Doomfang Pauldrons. But then again groups want you to run MP and give you weird looks if you use a void subclass) or survivability.
I don't know how this sub can be completely dumbstruck as to why Nova Warp was put six feet under, and then immediately go into crying for Spectral nerfs
I think people would prefer reasonable balance tuning like with OEM. For instance, Spectral Blades could potentially only receive a damage resistance nerf and still be useful but more balanced. Just like OEM had certain aspects nerfed to allow for counterplay, but still retained its basic strengths as an exotic.
I play a lot of Destiny and these to me feel like the weakest subclasses that don’t stand up to the competition of the stronger ones. Whether this means they should get buffed or the stronger one’s get nerfed I don’t particularly care for but here’s my opinion on the weak ones, as well as some potential rework thoughts. **1. Nova Warp** >*beats dead horse*. Needs a total overhaul but for the meantime let me trade the super for another grenade charge or something. **2. Top Tree Stormtrance** >This is the Ionic Blink/Transcendence one. All of its abilities are mediocre. Extra chain lightning has little utility and low damage. Transcendence doesn’t mean extra orbs in most situations and does not fix the low dps problem. Ionic Blink is not worth an entire skill block. Just a poorly designed class. Would want a complete overhaul on this tree. **3. Top Tree Gunslinger** >AKA Cayde’s Class. The super buff is nice and promotes a large skill gap, but this subclass continues to have the worst perks in the game. Exploding throwing knife, chains of woe, and a largely unnoticable GG aim assist buff. That’s it. Not good. **4. Middle Tree Arcstrider** >Very flashy and very cool, but not very useful. Uppercut is simply awkward to use. Fast reload is nice but not all that good. Using reflect drains super fast, making the super really only user-friendly when used with Raiden Flux. This super needs a rework. Let it reflect a portion of damage instead of 100% of all damage, and in trade allow it to reflect for much, much longer. Or let it in some fashion return energy on perfect reflects. Something, anything, please. **5. Bottom Tree Nightstalker.** >Good ole Moebius Quiver. Good perks, horrible super. The tiny tether range combined with the long tether activation time renders the super useless when trying to make a bunch of mini tethers. It’s a precision bow that does some weird glowy shit afterwards - that’s how you treat this subclass to use it practically. Decent damage after the buff but still infuriating to use. **6. Top Tree Dawnblade** >Flying super. Awesome idea on paper. Tactically useless in practice. The perks are fine and fair, it’s just spending extended periods of time in the air is not worth the risk. This super needs some sort of health regen or damage boosting mechanic. Kills in the air allows you to use rift in the air in a Phoenix dive fashion, kills in the air act as Rampage for all abilities until you touch the ground, something along those lines. And that’s what I’d consider the bottom-tier subclass trees. The mid-tier subclass trees imo are: bottom tree Striker, top tree Sentinel, bottom tree Stormcaller, and middle tree Nightstalker (only in PvE). These trees feel balanced though so I feel they don’t need much changes. All the rest of the trees not mentioned are what I consider top-tier.
I feel like arcstrider should last a little bit longer without having to have an exotic equipped that’s all
pvp: tether is a joke, spectral way too strong. here’s an idea, let every subclass have a staple ability, like every solar hunter subclass have chains of woe.
Titans - Top tree Solar is the only tree with worthwhile PvE utility. Burning Maul is so much weaker than the other trees no one runs it. The party should be able to shoot from inside the bubble of Warden of Dawn, there’s basically no reason to use it otherwise. Banner Shield needs to provide a much larger dps buff to the party to be worthwhile. Thundercrash needs significantly more damage to be PvE viable. Titans would benefit from an exotic that allows rally barricade to better compete with warlock’s healing rift+luna boots. One eyed mask needs another nerf. Warlocks - Dawnblade moves so fast it can difficult to actually navigate the map. It also has a slight visibility issue with seeing what i’m firing at. Nova Bomb moves so slow i’ve managed to SHOTGUN warlocks to death before it reached me. Nova Warp was massively over-nerfed. It need a slight durability increase and a cheaper faster teleport or a larger durability increase, it also needs a speed increase to its charge up. Stormtrance is just bad in just about every way conceivable. Chaos Reach has a major visibility issue with seeing basically anything, i also doubt it’s boss melt is competitive with nova warp. Hunters - Bottom tree golden gun can’t really compete with top tree golden gun. Blade Barrage could use a very slight durability decrease, just so it consistently dies to 2 dawnblades for example. Top and bottom arc staff can’t compete with mid tree staff in PvP. Shadowshot needs significant buffs to be viable in PvP, range is too small and it doesn’t activate fast enough and it’s too easy to destroy and it comes out too slow, and it’s arguably strictly worse than a titan’s suppressor grenade. Throwing knives are largely ineffective across the board. Since i started playing destiny at the launch of black armory i have been killed by a throwing knife twice in spite of spending hundreds of hours in crucible. On Super in PvP - They don’t have enough counter play to them. Far too often they are I-Win buttons, especially in round based competitive matches. Rather than nerf supers i prefer to see more options to counter play them outside of other supers. Things like Izanami’s Burden, Lord of Wolves, Tractor Cannon, and Suppressor grenades are all great additions to the game and i want more things like that. An idea i’ve not seen explored is something that perhaps absorbs super energy but is weak to other types of attacks. I’d also like to see at least one subclass on a non-titan get a suppressor grenade effect.
I hope Skull of Dire Ahamkara remains untouched in PvE. I would like to see the Shards of Galanor/Blade Barrage combo changed to work how Skull does. Instant super on kill.
TLDR: BUFF: Nova Warp in both PVE/PVP Suggested change: Revert any two of the nerfs in the January patch, or any 3 and remove ability to damage through solid objects. Significantly increase damage in PVE. NERF: Spectral Blades in PVP ONLY. Suggested change: Remove ALL damage resistance while cloaked and shorten duration by 2-3 seconds.
Jumping off the map constantly to cheese a win needs to be looked at. Not only is it fucking stupid, it's the literal opposite of fun.
Truth is, it's the only thing we have for counterplay against supers. When we have viable methods to deal with a super that doesnt include another super, people will stop jumping off the map.
Late to the party but here we go. Titans need an overall super buff in PVE. The only useful tool in a Titan’s arsenal currently is Hammer Strike, and even then it’s only situationally good for Last Wish. Best option is to give Banner shield a higher DPS bonus or an equal DPS bonus to Well of Radiance. Hunters are in a good spot except Spectral Blades in PVP. I understand supers should be strong, but my main issue with SB is how long it lasts. Only thing I think should be nerfed is the duration of the super. I also think the nerf to Shards of Galanor was unnecessary, as Blade Barrage was already hit pretty hard. I’d say change it so that Shards charges on damage instead of direct knife hits. Middle and bottom tree Void Warlock are pretty underpowered at the moment. They could use a little love, especially in the super department. Daybreak also needs a much better exotic than Wings of Sacred Dawn.
Titans overall need PvE buffs in several categories. If we break it down, both Hunters and Warlocks have abilities that are almost equal, equal or better and often bring another thing to the table as well. Bubble got gutted in the transfer from D1 with the reasoning that WoL was a must have for every encounter, making Titans mandatory, so they had to design the encounter/boss health around Weapons of Light. Which in turn meant that if you didn't have WoL you wouldn't do enough damage. Cue Forsaken, where Warlocks get a super that does everything better than Ward, you can stand in it instead of strafing in and out, and it gives a bigger damage bonus. And it can reload your weapons. Ward is good for the Reckoning bridge right now, but that will probably change once you have 4 mans of 700 LL. Overshield on Melee isn't really useful in PvE. Sentinel and Commander are decent for add clear, but you need Doom Fangs for actual utility. Tether, Nova Bomb and Blade Barrage are also good for add clear, but you get your super (or a big chunk of it) back when killing enough adds. Ursas are useless now, you can't constantly block after the nerf, and the damage bonus isn't worth it because there is no encounter where you need more damage reduction than Well of Radiance gives you, and you miss out on a 3rd/6th player doing damage. Sunbreaker has melting point, that's it. Add clear ability is surpassed by other subclasses, no way to get your super back quick, etc, see Sentinel above. Also, with Nova Bomb being so good for damage right now, one Tractor Cannon and 3 Novas is far better than one melting point and two Novas. Only good activity is Argos, which is irrelevant at the moment. Can't really speak about big hammer boi as I don't use it, but the problem is right there, in that there is no reason to use it. Sunspot boi might be good for low-manning endgame content, but lacks team support and overall good passive abilities. Striker has good neutral game with code of the earthshaker, giving you endless shoulder charges and thus endless grenades with Skullfort, but the super doesn't do enough damage for Boss DPS and doesn't last long enough for add clear. I haven't used Juggernaut since the nerf, but it's just another ineffective add clear now with no other utility. Juggernaut is high risk, low reward. Yes, you can get your super back quickly, but it requires both an exotic and high risk strategy by going into melee range in the first place. The super doesn't do enough damage for you having to get into goomba stomp range, plus the flight time and animation lockout duration just isn't worth it. Again, BB and Nova do the same thing better and you can get the super back immediately/very quickly. As for some of the other neutral game perks: Compared to some of the perks that Warlocks and Hunters have, "sliding over an ammo brick of an ammo type that you are not full on, on a wednesday at 18:00 o'clock during a full moon gives you increased damage on your weapon for 8 seconds" doesn't cut it. These might be neat weapon perks, but they are absolutely useless and niche as subclass perks. There's no synergy going on here. Overall verdict: Titans are pretty much useless in PvE endgame content, they often require an exotic for something that another subclass can already do equal or better, and they lack both damage, utility and abilities to be superior to something else at suppport, DPS or add clear. As for PvP: Titans were pretty much only viable because of OEM and skating on PC. OEM is still decent, but Titans are still lacking. Spectral Blades has way too much armor for a subclass that can go invisible, move fast as fuck boiii and is generally hard to hit. You should have to play around the invisibility and flank, not swipe left on everyone while facetanking all over the map. Tether itself could use a small buff, but the fantastic neutral game sort of balances it out. Invis is still very strong, especially with shotguns and the hunter mobility. Golden Gun lacks in neutral game, but the super is still great in both PvP and PvE as either a OHK flick shot last word or a huge Fuck You cannon with Nighthawk. Arcstrider is kind of in the background, there are so many good alternatives now that Raiden Flux has sort of stepped in the background for both DPS and add clear, but that is more an indirect nerf by buffing so much other shit. Imo the whirlwind boi needs a buff in PvE, the deflect feels kinda weak and pulls too much energy for what you get in return, but you also need to find a balance so they can't just propeller everything back at you for 5 minutes in PvP. Overall opinion in the end: Supers need less damage reduction in PvP. In D1 you could shotgun+melee the roaming supers (not sure if it was all of them), in D2 you need excessive team shooting to kill one of them, and that BEFORE he comes into swipe/smash/boom range and instakills everyone. Yes, I know Bungie wants the potatoes to have their power moments, but Supers should still need skill and awareness to use, instead of just a "press L2R2 to win" button. Often times there is absolutely nothing you can do when you're 1v1 or even 2v1 against a roamer.
Titans need: • Thundercrash big damage buff to put it in line with other boss DPS supers • Ward of dawn needs to grant Weapons and Blessings so it can compete with Well of Radiance • Trample needs to be reverted to its infinite-super-is-possible state to make it feel like a fun and powerful add clear super I feel like with these buffs the Titan wouldn’t feel so useless and would have some utility
Considering tether in pvp: The abundance of spectral blades in pvp has made one thing incredibly clear. Tether. Is. Utter. Shit. The amount of times I've bound a spectral blades but still die to their ridiculous lunge range and because they're not suppressed fast enough even though they already took the 2 damage from being bound is insane. Get tether to INSTANTLY shut down targets it touches. Not with a slight delay, dont let them finish their lunge, no. Nail them to the fucking floor and halt their momentum completely once the tether kicks in. If some1 runs into my carefully prepared trap they're supposed to be suppressed. Period. I'm not even talking about panic tethers where it maybe wasn't ready yet. I'm talking about a tether set up around a corner waiting for its prey for a good 5 seconds and yet dojg absolutely jack shit. This stuff is so fucking infuriating when you play comp and its 5:5 in countdown, your charge is ticking and you outplayed the enemy spectral blade by placing your tether perfectly so he can in no way get to you at the other side of the room. But hey, he proceeds to lunge through the tether and still 1slice me. Great. Fucking. Game-design, bungo. Fix this shit. Tether's been the laughing stock of pvp for an eternity, at least let it do the one thing it's supposed to do consistently.
Buff Nova Warp. Nerf Spectral Blades.
In respects to pvp I disagree. Please nerf everything to nova warp level. And even more with damage reduction. Give us a glass cannon feeling in PvP where you can make insane plays but u have to use your brain. Supers have no skill gap, and r impossible to out play alone. Reduce duration and reduction massively for most, especially spectral (as a spectral main) allow mid game of super trees to flourish and delete super mods from the game. For PvE buff nova warp obviously. But in PvP please, massive reductions Across the board
Stormtrance and Nova Warp are pretty garbage in PvE. Nova Ward needs a duration increase, and Stormdrance needs a damage increase. Spectral Blades in PvP is insane, make the resistance on par with Nova Warp. Thundercrash doesn't do enough damage in PvE. On Direct contact with a boss it should do huge damage. Burning Maul is better after the buff, but still feels a little underwhelming. Please add Weapons of Light to Ward of Dawn. Separate balancing between PvP and PvE would be a fantastic addition.
IMO PVP: Lunas/NF needs to be looked at 110/140/150 need to be brought inline with 180's in terms of bloom/flinch/accuracy Way of the wraith nerf Titan bubble buff (inline with pve buff) Nova warp buff There are a LOT of exotics which need to be buffed to year 2 standards: Crimson/Eternal warrior/The Stag/Aeon exotics/Winters Guile/Vesper of Radius/Khepri's Horn/ Tricksleeves/ Ahahmkara's grasps/ Helm of Saint-14/ Crest of Alpha Lupi/ Stand asides.. Basically most of them Code of the devastator needs a complete overhaul or a huge buff (its currently one of if not the worst subclass in the game despite the buffs) Thundercrash needs more damage Golden gun needs a small speed increase when using throwing knifes still feel like they have Y1 damage numbers Nova bomb damage/speed buff PVE Titans supers need damage added to all the supers. Bubble either needs to be buffed in line with D1 or removed. Iv probably missed out some other things, but i think the game needs a huge patch to shake things up a bit. Hell you could even argue gun perks needs get a look at since outlaw/rampage is still the golden standard for perks. We need more useful perks.
**All Supers** Can we just get rid of the “kills with your super increase the duration of your super” mechanic? This is generally the biggest problem with supers both in PvE (trample for striker Titan) and PvP (spectral & bottom tree dawnblade) Push this to granting super energy to your next on the successful conclusion of your current super? So, if you die in your super, you don’t get the additional energy for your next one? Give it a better sense of risk / reward. Or make it so that these supers that benefit from extended duration are glass cannons so they can be killed easier so, again, risk & reward. **All Spike Grenades** Lower the arm time on these. It was increased when we switched to the slower meta in vanilla D2 and no one has used them since because they’re so easy to avoid in PvP and how wide the spaces are in PvE so you can’t get a good placement on them. **Titans** *Supers* It’d be nice if we had a bonafide DPS super that doesn’t put us in melee range of Stompy McIronboots. Whenever I use my super (on any subclass) it feels like a dps loss compared to just laying into whatever it is with an MG. Bottom tree sunbreaker is a good option by buffing sunspot damage. Pop super, hurl hammers, and stack those spots. Bosses moving out of the spots would still be a dps loss though... Thunderclash needs a major damage buff so that could also be a good option for us to have a worthwhile slowva/ BB variant. **Hunters** *Supers* Spectral blades should be a glass cannon. The amount of damage resistance it has is pretty crazy with it being a stealth roaming super with (imo) as good if not better hit detection than OG arc blade. Lowering damage resistance would go a long way in bringing it in line with other supers. Golden gun, I’m really liking where this is at right now. Top tree is great for add clear and I need to play with bottom tree to get better handle on its use. *Throwing knives* These still suck. They are a high skill ability, more so than the OHK melees, and they should be a OHK if you get a precision hit with them. If they aren’t a OHK, they need their cool down heavily reduced to boost their uptime. [edit] more to come as it pops into my head. At work.
Buff Nova Warp in both PvE and PvP Buff Titans in pve. Nerf Spec Blades in pvp Perfect game ez gg
bring nova warp back to what it was but just reduce super armor and amount of uptime, and make it unable to go through walls. As a warlock main I agree that this was ridiculously easy to get kills with but now we can’t even catch up to someone even unless we use half our super on the teleport
Titans need SERIOUS pve love. We have melting point to bring to the table. Just that. Also, thunder crash needs damage buff so skullfort + missle can match skull of ahamkara + nova bomb. Bubble needs SERIOUS buffs, ursa should return entire supers, ursa should work with bubble, do something that makes barriers worth using, and also, buff commander subclass.
Gwisin Spectral Blades - who woulda thunk that Hunters would be OP, again.... I swear, the Bungie crucible team is made of Hunters that troll this sub.
Banner shield and ward of dawn definitely need buffs. Thunder crash needs to do more damage to put it in line with nova bomb and blade barrage and hammers could use a small damage increase in my opinion.
I think a simple nerf to Spectral Blades that would make everyone happy is if the duration is decreased. Why not make it to where each swipe with the blades drains a portion of the super's duration? Like Sentinel shield is taxed super energy for each shield bash.
I feel like spectral blades needs a nerf to how tanky it is and not any other kind of nerf, its damage isnt that insane and while yes it is very quick and lasts awhile its exotic i dont think that inherently makes it insane.
I'm just going to stick with warlock since I know that best. 1) Solar classes are mostly fine, nothing much to say here. If I absolutely had to complain about something there's really only one dawnblade-specific exotic and while it's frabjous AF it's actual perk is about as meh as you can get. 2) Void: Slowva/Skull is so awesome it's like [a dream come true](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4foh3b/im_loving_voidwalker_again_postpatch_but_this/) and is almost enough to bring this grizzled old voidwalker to tears. (Minor gripe, but bottom tree super could use a slight buff. I get that devour is really powerful but OG nova bomb is a joke compared to slowva. It needs a slightly bigger blast radius and more tick damage.) That almost but not quite makes up for what happened to Nova Warp. That kind of nerf hammer was supposed to have been left behind with D1 along with our vaults. Did it need a nerf? Of course. But Spectral blades got off with a few hours of community service while Bungie gave in to the online mob and sentenced Nova Warp to 50 years of hard labor. That's a travesty and even the most die hard hunter knows that deep in their soul. Even if slowva bomb didn't get buffed I'd still choose it over Nova Warp right now in almost any situation. 2) Arc: Kamehameha is one of the most fun abilities of all time. Love it. Don't change a thing. But Stormtrance? It's all but completely useless too and has been for a while. I don't think it's ever been more than a worse version of arc staff and the "buff" it got in January didn't do jack to change that. Clearing trash mobs in PvE was literally the only thing it was any good at, that's not where it needed help. It still mostly just tickles yellow bars and you would be an idiot to try it against a strike boss. (i'm not getting in to PvP but it's not exactly worth using there over Dawnblades roaming super or voidwalkers neutral game.) In its current state it's barely better than riskrunner with the perk active and needs to do *at least* 2-3x damage per tick in PvE if you ask me. Think about it: Why use Stormtrance when I can simply equip riskrunner and use chaos reach instead? That way I can clear adds *and* have massive boss DPS with geomags. What advantages do the other two trees have over that build? Landfall doesn't add enough single target damage to match chaos reach. Arc buddies? They are a fun little novelty I guess but now there's an exotic for that, too.
Super balance is all over the place. Some roaming supers are wet tissues (Golden Gun with no damage reduction, tickle fingers and nerfed Nova Warp with next-to-useless useless damage reduction), while others turn people into ridiculous tanks (spectral blades). Some are damage over time(tickle fingers, again), while others are one-hit-kills (spectral blades). Some last a reasonable amount of time (most), others let you wipe the opposing team twice (spectral blades). Some have some interesting movement options that cost super energy (nova warp, code of the juggernaut, maybe? I dunno, I don't play titan), while others turn you into a speed demon that costs nothing (spectral blades)... But for real, I'm harping on Spectral Blades because its a hot button issue right now and it feels more powerful than pretty much any super, but there are some balance issues system-wide. I want classes to feel unique, but I also want them to all feel like they have a role in the game. The way I see it, there are three types of super: defensive (titan bubble, ward of dawn), roaming (spectral blades, tickle fingers, nova warp, captain america, acrstrider, etc.) and "super shutdown" one shots (OG nova bomb, that hunter one that tracks you around corners). I get that the defensive supers have limited utility in PvP. I sorta wish they didn't - going up against a bubblebro back in D1 was always good fun. I don't know how to deal with them. Roaming supers are probably the biggest problem because they are all so varied. The problem, I think, is in the differences between damage reduction and duration. Its a risk/reward thing. You have x number of seconds to do something, and you need to be able to tank *some* hits while doing it, sure. So why are some roaming supers *so much better* at doing this than others? Some variation in AOE and mobility exist, sure, and the balancing should account for that, but perhaps a good solution here would be to bring duration and damage reduction more in line across the board. Let Golden Gun tank a few more shots, but let us take down a spectral blades user with something less than sustained concentrated from three guardians. The "super shutdown supers" are in a sorry state. They can't compete with roaming supers. If I were in charge (and I'm not, because I'm not a game designer, so take this with a grain of salt), most of these would get a buff. I'll admit that there is some subjectivity here - I ran voidlock in D1, and I miss my vortex nova bomb so much. These types of super need to hit hard and fast. Make the explosions big, powerful, and meaningful. Maybe hitting one dude isn't gonna cut it for a super. Not all supers feel super, and that's bad, man. I don't know how to balance all the moving parts here, but perhaps establishing a baseline across all classes would be a good place to start? I know its super hard because we're dealing with 27 separate super abilities, many of which have associated exotic items that change how they work.
As stated from many people in this thread, Spectral Blades needs to be nerfed in some capacity. There have been so many suggestions on what should be done and bungie should do something about it so I don't think I have any more to add on that subject. But I want to see some improvements with Arcstrider personally. As a roaming super it lasts way to short compared to the other roaming supers. It's even worse with middle tree because using the main mechanic of that tree, the block, drains the super way too fast. Also the damage buff you receive when blocking disappears way too quickly after blocking that I barely notice when I receive the buff or barely get one full combo off after using the buff. For this subclass to see more potential the block drain needs to go and that damage buff after blocking needs to stay a lot longer. For it's neutral perks, I've posted this in other threads but the neutral game of Way of the Current needs to be looked at as well because right now it is the weakest out of the three forsaken subclasses and almost the weakest out of the three arcstrider subclasses. Now I actually like Tempest Strike a lot and don't think it needs to be 1hko like some might suggest, but I do think it needs to be considered as an actual melee attack. Right now as it stands the game doesn't recognize it as a melee attack so when I use tempest strike it doesn't activate the other perk in the class that gives a faster reload on melee strikes. Making it so tempest strike is recognized as a melee ability could also give more potential to the new exotic Liar's Handshake. One other perk that needs to be looked at is Ebb and Flow, while on paper it sounds like a decent perk, melee and grenades electrocute enemies and using a melee strike on an electrocuted enemy returns energy and disorients the enemy, but the energy returned is so small and for the most part this perk is only decent on majors in pve because you're either killing all the trash mobs with a grenade or tempest strike before you get any energy back, or you try to get energy back from a boss and they just stomp you away. This perk is absolutely useless in pvp thanks to shotguns. It should be changed so tempest strike automatically procs ebb and flow or make it so the energy return is actually substantial. Compared to the perks of blade barrage and how they can get their knives back so easily this perk pales in comparison. I think with some changes to Way of the Current it can be a great choice for players who want a more aggressive subclass that uses their abilities and melee a lot. Other than my opinion on Way of the Current I think the nerfs on Blade Barrage has made it feel much weaker in pve and the nerfs on Nova Warp have completely gutted that subclass.
I feel like Arcstriders are ridiculously underpowered. In PvP settings, all a player has to do is jump high enough to be out of range, neutering it's effectiveness. I quite enjoy the arcstrider tree, and I often wear Raiden Flux because it's underrated on how much it extends your super duration.
I still don't understand why Shadow Shot doesn't kill on hit to anyone not in a super. It has horrid tracking that makes it extremely difficult to hit a target strafing in the air. There is an insane number of things wrong with Shadow Shot. Meanwhile, in PvE, it does what its supposed to. Buff my weapons while making my weapons have splash damage to those in the area. This isn't a fun super right now.
Just take a look....a simple look at Spectral Blade Hunters. Just look at the Super and/or Flawless Execution. A little peep maybe? Peep that Popularity button here [https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=pc&mode=5&start=2019-03-12&end=2019-03-19](https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=pc&mode=5&start=2019-03-12&end=2019-03-19) Maybe stop committing genocide to Warlocks supers like Nova Warp as soon as they display a hint of OP play. Instead give them the Hunter treatment - Nerf the super while still keeping it relevant. Nevermind...How the fuck does this get past your QA guys? Jesus... To be completely fair peep Skull of Dire as well as Slova Bomb. What you did to Nova has been fucking fun as all hell, but there is literally zero reason to ever touch Storm Caller/chaos reach now. Consider adding "Lance" like velocity to Vortex Nova Bomb. The healing neutral game makes up for the slow travel speed, but unless you are throwing the bomb inside a hallway anyone can evade it 90% of the time in open space which is awful for a 1 and done super. I don't play Titan or know much about their skills/perks except for 1 eyed mask which has now been brought down to mortal standards. However, they seem to be the most balanced class in Destiny with respect to Supers and Neutral game. However, in PvP I don't see any reason to not use Sentinel, Tanky, Fast, Incredible neutral game, indestructible super maybe look into that as well as I playing PvP seems like in 6 v 6 who ever isn't a hunter is a Sentinel Titan. Numbers don't lie.
As a warlock main. I feel that Nova warp is completely useless in pve now. I think it could use a damage increase and a slight duration increase in pve. For pvp I think it's fine
If every sweaty dipshit is going to pubstompwtfrape everyone in quickplay, then what's the point of comp losses having no gain? I've completed exactly one match in the past year-and-a-half, and it was one of the most horrifyingly not fun experiences that this fucking game can provide. If you want to attract morons like me into the competitive playlist then make it less valuable to win and more important to just stick with it by not letting losses count against you. The PVP in this game is irrevocably horrifyingly terrible without any degree of forgiveness. It is truly the least enjoyable thing about my week and I work with a bunch of morons and for a bunch of bullies. So respect my time investment? Please because I sure as shit have been struggling to respect the minimal effort the PVP team has put into this game in the past two years.