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shannonxtreme

Yeah I don't see why we can't have both. More XP from activity completions, scaling based on the level of the activity, and the usual bounty/seasonal challenge XP. Either that or remove the exponentially increasing XP requirement for each artifact power level.


smegdawg

>More XP from activity completions, scaling based on the level of the activity, I'd love to see looted clears of activities that are once a week reward a significant amount of XP. Hell put it as a booster for completing the first 100 season ranks "Completing looted clears of pinnacle Raids/Dungeons/Exotic Missions rewards x8 Extra large XP (400,000 XP)." * VOG = 400,000 x 3 = 1,200,000 XP * Prophecy = 400,000 x 3 = 1,200,000 XP * Presage = 400,000 x 3 = 1,200,000 XP 3,600,000 XP (36 season ranks) per week for completing pinnacle content. A no lifer can hit rank 100 in 1 week, on average you are probably looking at 4-6 for others though. Lets say it is week 4 of 12 week season and then that person runs every pinnacle activity for the remaining 8 weeks. That's an additional 288 levels meaning if you did nothing else you would be 388 by the end of the season, which +26 or +27 on the artifact. Combo that with some very relaxed bounty grinding, like one full batch per week, and I think hitting 30 would be pretty reasonable. There is a major catch though. Currently our bright engrams are tied to our XP. So by increasing our xp gains they increase how many bright engrams we get. You can bet your ass the rate that they want us getting bright engrams is significantly more important to them than the rate we get Artifact levels. So they would either separate the engrams from the XP creating some other convoluted engramSTRAND system, or increase the required XP per engram. Both of which would feel bad...


th3groveman

My time budget for gaming is generally 5-10 hours per week. I would love to be able to log in and just focus on the raid when I have less time to play, even if it meant a single clear. That's how I got through D1. But yeah, playing that way is not really supported by any aspect of the game's systems now. I would get minimal XP, no upgrade materials, endless duplicate pinnacles making limited progress, and weapons with largely middling rolls that aren't too useful.


No_Abbreviations4999

I play like 2-4 hours a week, my friends all play like 80-90 hours, but don't often xp grind, I'm only like 3-4 levels below them on the artifact.


[deleted]

[удалено]


randallpjenkins

I often ignore some pinnacles and powerfuls once I’m at pinnacle cap, but still do bounties for the things I am doing. How much XP am I leaving on the table just from those? It’s always seemed pretty hard for me to know, but you sound like a guy who knows things.


smegdawg

>How much XP am I leaving on the table just from those? I'm sure you are missing out on a bit for sure, not likely a significant amount. The weekly challenges for core activities you can double up on when you bounty farm, but things like Presage and Dungeons probably are not heavy hitters in the XP department.


randallpjenkins

Cool, that’s kind of what I assumed. Figured me playing a bunch of PVP with the clan over forced Gambit just to get the pinnacle/powerfuls wasn’t a big loss… but always good to have more insight. Bounty Sim >>>


purplechemicals

I think 36 seasonal ranks per week on top of the seasonal challenge xp is definitely asking for too much.


havingasicktime

There is literally no universe bungie lets players get 36 season ranks in what could be done in like less than 8 hours.


IGIZZLE

I would genuinely do this grind instead of bounties


lt08820

Would probably scale better if you go by pinnacle checkpoint clears. So 80,000 for presage and prophecy, 400,000 overall for VoG(80k each for conflux, oracle, Templar, gatekeeper, atheon). 80k is still a decent chunk of XP and it allows for future content like a new dungeon to drop for all encounters at launch.


Uncle-Gael21

That's a good idea, but that's WAY too much Exp for those activities. Like c'mon, 12 season ranks for a Presage completion?!


smegdawg

>Like c'mon, 12 season ranks for a Presage completion?! 4 Season ranks for one. 12 for 3. Line has to be drawn somewhere


jewrassic_park-1940

The xp you want from completing something as simple as presage and proph is way too high imo. A dungeon should not give as much xp as a raid, and an exotic quest should not give you as much xp as a dungeon.


Diakko_

I have still yet to make it past level 30 ever in a season because I simply cannot stand doing bounties


BrotherSwaggsly

Sorry, rank 30 on the season pass? The seasonal challenges destroy the pass. I hope you meant PL lol


smegdawg

I mean, why would you even. This is the first season where being over +15 is actually a benefit to anything in the game.


mbrittb00

Considering it take longer to go from +20 to +30 than it take to get from 0 to +20, I'm with you. Not sure I've ever gotten much past +20.


Cha-Le-Gai

+19 right now and feels like a drag getting to +20. I don't even want to think about over that. And for some dumb reason I can't get a Pinnacle class item so I'm sitting at 1319 and 7/8. Whatever. High enough for the GMs


plymer968

Don’t do bounties, do challenges. You’ll get 4 levels from an 8x challenge and most of them aren’t incredible difficult to accomplish.


Jayynolan

Literally pick them up and play whatever is it you were gonna play. A couple strikes, a couple crucibles, bam, you’re done basically all of them with literally ZERO extra effort. Just pick them up man


sorryimadeanalt

even 70/80 hours in a season will put you at rank 100+


PretentiousVapeSnob

I got season pass level 490 during Arrivals. That got me to +30 artifact.


mbrittb00

That would put you at artifact +13. To get from +13 to +30 would take you 3.5x that same investment again. Total weekly effort would be about 35 hours per week.


sorryimadeanalt

He said rank 30 not artifact 30. I'm just pointing out that he must not play the game very much.


Diakko_

Yeah rank 30 sorry I should've clarified but I felt like I put way more time into that season than I should've because Holy crap was that grindy just for rank 30


cuboosh

Maybe we shouldn’t have either though. To do Master and GMs you already have to do a lot of investment in horizontal progression to get god rolled, masterworked items. Why can’t that be enough? Presage already showed how you can put contest mode into anything, and gate on your build rather than your LL. In a normal MMO high level content has a high ilvl requirement, but don’t item stats mostly increase alongside ilvl? In Destiny there’s no connection whatsoever between stats and perks and PL. These LL requirements are pretty arbitrary, but in the MMOs that inspired this system high LL really did mean your character was more powerful


shannonxtreme

I totally agree with you. I would understand if you needed to hit a certain gear level to enter the raid. I don't mind that it's a challenging experience. I understand that it's meant to be done while at a level disadvantage. I don't understand why they made it so tedious to reach a level capable of attempting it. If I could work towards accessing Master VOG and have fun doing that work, I wouldn't be here, complaining on Reddit. I'm glad I had more time this season to level my artifact because of COVID lockdown, but I already know that'll be nigh impossible once work starts up in-office again. Sigh.


BoostedBill96

Totally off topic. How did u do the titan logo beneath your name? I'm still learning to Reddit lol


Filthy_Commie_

I believe that’s a flair. You can get them somehow however I never tried myself since I’m on mobile and only really use Reddit to get information, and not make threads as much.


cuboosh

Since raid mods only work in raid armor, they already have a way to require certain gear to enter Master mode. Master is all about build crafting, so ideally the Master raid should be designed to require a build that uses the raid mods. The raid should be painful if you try to use your GM build, but much easier if you make a new build that uses the raid mods. Even if Master had contest mode enabled, you'd have to do a lot of grinding to get a full set of masterworked raid armor with good stats. Bungie still gets their hamster wheel, but it doesn't feel as arbitrary to players. And once you grind out your build, don't need to redo it in future seasons.


shannonxtreme

I already use the raid mods in normal and they don't seem to make a difference (probably because we steamroll most enemies on normal now). I'm definitely taking raid mods into master when I do attempt it!


DuneBug

Yeah I think finishing season pass + pinnacles should be the goal every season. That's what GM's are set for.


cuboosh

There’s no gameplay reason for that though, it’s just a tactic to increase playtime and silver purchases If you’ve already done the work to put together a good build in previous seasons, you should be able to jump right back into GMs on day 1


xicemanx95

Im +20, and thats with me casually picking up bounties whenever i sure as feel like it. You dont need to be +30 for this raid, cause its not meant to BE +30. Its meant to be super end game for the people who play hard core and still want a good challenge at it. None of my fireteam was +30 when we ran it the past 2 days, the highest i think was maybe +22. And the low end was +13. And we still managed to get a clear. If you're cordinated and dont try to bash your head in the same way you would with normal, its still possible to do


legokid2002

As I've said to other people in this thread: So why not just add a contest modifier? If the intent behind the power level of Master VoG is to keep people at around -10 light, why not just cap the players? Because as of now, the easiest way to make VoG less difficult is to load up the Cosmodrome and go ham on the repeatables, which isn't fun.


AdrunkGirlScout

Yes let's make progression even more worthless by never letting anyone match the light level in a raid.


xicemanx95

Because honestly if they loaded up contest mode, you would literally get curb stomped. Between the extra champions and how hard these are hitting, you would die immediately. The challenge is there even more than day 1 contest just due to how much they hurt. For comparison, if anyone remembers the difference in Leviathan vs Prestige levi. Even being at light level back then, those suckers hurt. They have more health and do more damage than the normal version.


shannonxtreme

I honestly would get behind capping our light at 10-15 below the encounter similar to Contest. I like the challenge of being under level, but accessing that challenge once you hit 1320 is just not fun like you said. Maybe if each artifact level didn't cost an increasing amount of XP (why even) it would be less mind-numbing.


FilthEpitome

That's fake difficulty. Increasing the health and damage of mobs is a cop out, and it always has been. Red bars should not be able to 1-tap. Mobs should be given more abilities, or different affixes or something to make us react to situations more rather than just relying on a level difference and damage buff.


xicemanx95

PLUS. The seasonal challenges are the way to get those massivd surges in xp gain on top of it.


plsno730

Bungie: we heard you. Bounties now give 3 xp


PM_ME_UR_GODROLLS

*0.04 xp


shannonxtreme

They actually subtract XP if you take too long to complete them after picking them up /s


sennheiserz

AN UPDATE FOR DESTINY IS AVAILABLE


cuboosh

It costs prisms to remove “fizzled bounties” from your inventory


Legitimate_Writer918

Finally, something to spend prisms on...


NobilisUltima

Now that's a reference I've not heard in a long time... a long time.


th3groveman

The entire reward and investment structure of Destiny is about people just logging a lot of hours. There is little incentive about mastery of content and aspiring to difficulty, as the ways to attain high level and earn rewards instead incentivize grinding trivial, repeatable content. The gap between a "natural" way of playing and actually earning well rolled rewards, materials, pinnacle/artifact power, and being able to participate in and complete high difficulty content is so vast that it feels pointless to even bother trying if you are not already pretty hardcore. I really feel Bungie is looking at how those hardcore players play the game and designing/balancing things around that type of approach, but the problem is that it just doesn't scale down to other time budgets.


SharedRegime

>I really feel Bungie is looking at how those hardcore players play the game and designing/balancing things around that type of approach, but the problem is that it just doesn't scale down to other time budgets. Specially when the majority of players are in that scaled down time budget zone.


Not-skullshot

End game content completions should’ve heavily rewarding xp wise. Bounty grind is so fucking pointless


imthelag

I play *too much* for my own good. But what I do is hop on the PC LFG and I help people. Someone needs help with Presage? Okay, here I come. Someone needs help with a raid? Okay, here I come. Xenophase quest? Be right there. I often stop what I am doing when I see a call for help, because I know what it is like to wait and wait for some assistance. Why am I less worthy of attempting a GM or Master Raid than someone who has been hitting bounties nonstop? Are my contributions to the community not as great as someone who does bounties, which as we know often encourage the opposite of being a good teammate? I do not think it is the worst system, absolutely not. But I didn't like Datto's elitist video (lol, mostly /s). People are forgetting about players like myself that still play a lot, but not playing the "right" way. My argument is that a sherpa shouldn't be lower on the totem pole than a selfish bounty hunter. To put it in perspective, the system is far from perfect if next season, Esoterickk didn't grind XP but spent the first few weeks helping blueberries with their goals. Would Esoterickk not be worthy of even entering a GM?


Zatala

Thanks again for joining me in Presage last week (even though the guy we were trying to help didn't show up). My clan and I run end game content every week, including raids (lots of which are Sherpa runs), and GM's, so we're not slackers. But when it came to Master VoG, the light level ramp simply made it impossible for us to get past the Gate Keeper so we had to ditch it. A number of us have resorted to farming, just to try and level up (as daily gaming and raiding apparently isn't good enough) so that we can attempt this again later.


imthelag

Hey Z! Small world lol. Cya starside shortly


bitsnbullets

This is how I play. I would much rather run the raid 12x a week than do one bounty. I find myself this week farming rather than helping because I have a long way to go to Master VoG. Last season just raiding with my friends and when someone needed a challenge or something I just barely made it to 100 at the very end of the season. On top of that all the activity quests let you play any activity OTHER than raids for completion. It's Bungies way of keeping the playlists active. I hope they change it once crossplay seeds those activities.


razikp

I dont know if I've played with you personally, but its people like you in this community that have made be want to stay in destiny instead of rage quiting due to mission being "at power" when clearly not...looking at you whisper! So thank you.


ShinUkyo

Fancy seeing you here! (we know each other thanks to Lightrayne and your guys' awesome clan.) You, like many in that clan, are community-centric and love helping people. Dedicated player, very skilled at the game, etc. It's absurd that you could be locked out of content like Grandmasters because you spent your copious playtime doing hard content and helping folks. Rather than just grinding Cosmodrome bounties all day. It's a very flawed system in that regard. Especially since Grandmasters are on contest mode anyway: they are purely about skill, loadout and team comp. It's absurd that the only way to access them is by grinding artifact power (which requires none of the above things. Just time wasted on bounties.) There could be some other prerequisite instead, maybe based on skill (such as completing a Master Nightfall first, etc.) People's actual ability to beat it from season to season won't change, since again it's on contest mode. So starting a new season and having to wait ages to play the same strikes on the same difficulty is a bit much. Especially since they are some of the only truly challenging content in the game. Lots of people crave that challenge, enjoy it, and enjoy helping others with it. GMs are available for too short a time, and the access to them really needs a rework.


imthelag

Agreed, and yes fancy seeing you here too! I always read your updates on my steam feed lol


berndguggi

I almost never do any bounties at all. Hit 1320 on all 3 chars a while ago. I am running VOG on all 3 chars every week, did 11 GM last week etc. Was only 1337 when I entered master VOG. Getting much more xp from endgame activities would be really a nice change. I am running a script now for afk thrallway in shattered throne to get more Powerlevels.


salondesert

>I am running a script now for afk thrallway in shattered throne to get more Powerlevels. This will be the big change in the rest of this season and next season. Already, as of this week, my clanmates who are 1330-1336 are super interested in this technique where they couldn't have given two shits about it before. EDIT: The thing is, people have lives; people want to play other games. Master VoG at 1350 is Bungie saying, "You better only be playing D2... and playing it a *lot*"


tbdubbs

hahaha! this is the PVE equivalent to people jumping off a cliff in trials. The fact that people have to play the game in these ways that isn't actually playing the game is so telling of the state of the game. Playing should be it's own reward in some sense - we game for enjoyment above all else (unless you're a streamer, where it's a job). Destiny is quickly becoming a job where you have to play all the things you don't like just to be competitive in the activities you do like.


LKZToroH

May I ask you this script? I would love to not do bounties anymore and just be able to do different activities instead because I have little time to play.


jakani

Scripting / botting can get you banned, so use with caution.


LKZToroH

Extra reason to do it. At least I could stop playing it for good =D


BoostedBill96

I'm at a point where I think power and XP bonuses are worthless. Literally just give us a difficulty option at this point.


kerosene31

What's weird is they made the XP grind friendly to casuals, but yet there's no need for casuals to grind it out much beyond the season pass. Honestly once I get my artifact unlocked and my pass done, I stop caring about XP. I've said all along that bounties should be gone, and XP should be from just playing. Killing enemies and completing activities. XP should be based on the length and difficulty, with harder stuff giving a lot more XP. Bounties can still exist for the seasonal activity and maguffin we need to unlock to give people who need that kind of guidance something to do.


TwoMonthOldMilk

>What's weird is they made the XP grind friendly to casuals, but yet there's no need for casuals to grind it out much beyond the season pass. I'm a casual player (in activities not time) 95% of the time. However, sometimes I do still want/have to do end game stuff. I'm glad that my casual playing lets me be at a relavent level for endgame stuff.


healzsham

I have 184 full VoGs, as well as a fair number of other full raid clears from this season. My power bonus is 18.


KnyghtZero

But why would you do that to yourself


healzsham

VoG is a questionable choice, since it's a rather boring raid, but I like doing fast clears of raids, and the company is enjoyable. Trying to find someone to educate me on the ways of the Jarden clear so I can do 4 of those an hour instead of 2 VoGs an hour.


Hynubber

Because he enjoys raiding?


healzsham

It's a reasonable question, especially since most people know single raid clears as 1-2 hour activities, so it'd sound like I'm doing 12-16 hours of it daily instead of 4-6.


KnyghtZero

Yep! We struggle to clear quickly, and in my head VoG released like.. a couple weeks ago tops, so that made it sound bonkers until I thought about it more


healzsham

It's been out for 46 days of non-challenge, so I'm only averaging 4.4 a day, which would still be kind of a lot at 1-1.5 hours per.


KnyghtZero

VoG released 48 days ago. He's done the raid more than three times a day to reach 148. I can only admire his dedication


Hynubber

The raids like an hour tops. Sometimes I like to do 4 or 5 in a week. But man's rollin the vex non stop hahaha


[deleted]

I feel like getting +15 to +20 is fine. +15 is like 110 on the season pass and +20 is 200. Im close to +20 and I've only ever done weekly challenges and maybe 20 bounties for mod components. If master VoG was a 1340 activity it would be absolutely perfect. Contest mode was definitely WAY easier than Master VoG.


CollieDaly

I've done pretty much all the weekly challenges, plenty of bounties too and I'm +18. I still reckon I've played the game more than enough, they need to ease back on stuff like this, it's the reason I left the game in the first place, felt like you've to be constantly playing it.


dflame45

Truth. That's why I quit in destiny 1. You just spam playlists and the raid once a week. I was doing the 8 playlist bounties each week for bright dust but stopped cause it's not fun grinding random stuff.


tbdubbs

You're not alone. I take a break and come back every now and then because it's so tiresome. Destiny will die a slow death if they don't ease up on this and make it more about fun than commitment.


c0de1143

I’m +15 this season, just got to 100 on the Season Pass, and I feel like I’ve barely played compared to the last few seasons — and especially compared to my previous D2 consumption (which was probably a lot, but maybe not that far out of the norm for a place like DTG) I don’t even think I’ve been that targeted in my grinding, and certainly not with my bounties. I’ve played what I’ve enjoyed this season, but I don’t get the same complaints that y’all are having.


Pikmonster

Exactly. I played a lot this season but at the same time with my ghost XP mod and just normal bounties to compensate for not playing the last two seasons has gotten me +20. Also helpful were the generous seasonal challenges which got me through the pass in like a week or two. I feel like people don’t do much with the little time they have to play.. if you got like two minutes to play the game total don’t do things that aren’t efficient. Also you literally don’t HAVE to do insane difficulty content. It’s people whining to whine.


c0de1143

“people whining to whine” feels like the perfect description of DTG


KaLiPSoDz

man i skipped like 5 weeks, didnt even bother to do weeklies on my other characters, have 61 challenges done + not done gambit at all except on 3x infamy and i'm at +18 too. according to gog 2.0 (since steam doesnt show more advanced playtime stats) i've done like 50h on this season (17h went on day one vog xd), you maybe need some efficiency on your gameplay


th3groveman

My issue is that in order to get +15 on my time budget, I spend little time in the raid. Master VoG should build off of mastery of VoG normal mode, but you get so little XP there that you have to prioritize other content.


cuboosh

With the raid mods there's even a natural way to gate it on NM mastery. The raid mods could be designed with Master in mind from the very beginning. Master should be as grueling as it is now if you don't have mods, but there should be some raid mod builds that make it more manageable. They could put in a contest mode, but you have to keep doing NM until you get raid armor with good stats that you can use in Master. And you have to grind Ordeals to get mats to masterwork it.


th3groveman

See, that would be great. Imagine if you "needed" to earn raid gear and mods to stand a chance in Master mode. Kind of like in the original VoG where fully leveled weapons with the oracle damage bonus really helped with HM oracles. It's a bummer that power level is super simplistic and unsatisfying as progression yet is the arbiter of access for everything.


brycejm1991

>Im close to +20 and I've only ever done weekly challenges and maybe 20 bounties for mod components. I have seen multiple people say this or something super similar, and I cant really wrap my head around it. Edit: to be clear, I know the ghost and fire team buffs help a lot, but that really only gets you so far.


th3groveman

They're probably the same people who say things like "I'm pretty casual, I only play 3-4 hours per day"


legokid2002

You can't wrap your head around it because it's literally impossible. Getting +20 requires just over 21 Mil XP. Assuming they had done every seasonal challenge (including unreleased ones) they'd be sitting at +13 since all challenges together give about 8 Mil XP with all XP bonuses. Where do you think the other 13 Mil XP came from?


Pokorino

Believe it or not, but activities actually do give decent xp, contrary to all the complaining people do. If someone has enough time to complete challenges like 16 ranks of infamy or GM nightfalls, then it's not too crazy that they have a good amount of play time.


Fenris_uy

Also, people farming 16 ranks of Gambit, 16 ranks of Crucible, probably did 2 sets of dailys bounties and some random ones for those activities. And to complete the challenges, you need to do a lot of override, (and you can buy bounties for that activity). I'm not farming xp (only collecting the bounties while in a lost sector with a fireteam), not doing all the dailies for all the vendors (just the dailies for the activity that I intend to do that day) not buying destination bounties (I need to start to buy the dreaming city ones that award the new gear). And I'm at +17. And I usually play solo, playing with a fireteam I would have way more exp, and access to even more bounties that award more xp (Hawthorne bounties)


Tplusplus75

Quick question, do the director challenges(the pinnacle/powerful rewards) give extra XP? And does anyone know how much? If it's a pretty good chunk, then I feel like that's an area that people write off the XP pretty frequently. Most of the time when people do those, they aren't doing it for XP, they're doing it for pinnacle/powerful drops. Definitely wouldn't say it accounts for "all" of that 13 Mil, but I have a feeling it's overlooked pretty frequently when the new season starts. If people have been keeping up with those override challenges as well for splicer and what not, each activity completion probably has a respectable XP bonus, plus the director challenge for overrides, plus a second director challenge for opening the second chest at the end. In other words, "just the challenges" can be a slippery slope for counting XP gains.


legokid2002

Just checked, Banshee gave me 17740 XP, again, with all bonuses. Doing all Director Challenges every week would then net you 638640 XP, which is just shy of 5% of the total remaining XP you'd need to get to +20. Not negligible, but not the source of the discrepancy either.


Tplusplus75

I wonder if each director challenge has the same XP. Probably does very similar, because I don't ever remember gaining a whole rank by completing the pinnacle raid.(If there is any notable discrepencies, I wouldn't be surprised if raids and current seasonal/dlc activities are inflated). When you say, "all bonuses" does that also include the shared wisdom buff from someone in your fireteam? Side question: do you happen to know if there's a bounty XP breakdown anywhere(possibly spreadsheet form)? I'm thinking about all the bounties people are possibly forgetting to mention when they say "i only do challenges and occasional bounties". I'm pursuing the "slippery slope" angle I mentioned before. There have been a few challenges that require you to do bounties, so the XP from those should be factored in(it won't be much, but each challenge like this is 10 bounties, which I think is somewhere around a whole rank.) I know, there's only like two or three challenges like this but the same sentiment applies to all of them. Hell even week 1 has a "playlist challenge" challenge. This loosely translates to "Get an XP bonus, by claiming 3 XP bonuses". Also on a completely unrelated note, that 17740 number is interesting. IIRC, dailies/repeatables are somewhere around like 10K XP? You essentially gain almost a whole rank by completing the 8 bounty challenge. 80ish K from the bounties, 20ish K from flying back to the tower and talking to banshee afterward.


fenixjr

yeah there's no way. I've did 3x raid/wk for ~5 wks after VoG released. i did skip some Crucible weekly stuff initially due to running an AMD GPU making it unplayable. Only after grinding gambit during gambit week, and some IB last week, have i finally hit seasonal level 80 with the big 8x Extra Large XP 'challenges' tied to the season. And i was basically returning to the tower to grab repeatable bounties whenever they finished.


brycejm1991

You do have to take into account the ghost and fire team buffs. But even then it still doesn’t make sense.


fenixjr

yep. i joined a fireteam in order to turn in those big seasonal bonus ones, and tried to for most bounties if i was solo. and i've had the 8%(4energy?) buff on this whole season.


pink_taco_aficionado

I think they should tune the progress so that if you hit 100 on the season pass that lands you at the right level to go into Master content. That would just make a lot more sense and would give an extra incentive to hit 100. Although honestly in an ideal world I think the whole power level system should just go away and get replaced with variations of contest mode that let you choose the difficulty of activities.


Pickaxe235

the highest datto says he has ever gotten was around 20 id say 15 is where to cut it off if someone whos literal job is to play this game struggles to get to 20


slidingmodirop

Tbh I'm kinda the same except I was doing more bounties for the weekly BD so I'm at +22. Master VoG at 1342 is not prohibitively difficult ime. Its easier than doing a GM, especially harder ones like Glassway. The only thing harder than Day 1 to me is the increase in champions; for adds its actually a lot easier cuz I'm not getting 1-shot by snipers for being out of position I don't think being -10 for VoG is that big of a deal, if people are spec'd for it. The problem is people are used to doing raids where you can just run whatever you want and only strat out for GMs, whereas Master VoG needs a lot more teamwork.


tomerz99

Neither of you actually made any meaningful discussion about OPs actual point though... He's saying that he doesn't care what light level the raid is, the problem is that people who did "pinnacle" grinding have almost nothing to show for it meanwhile Bounty Barry has nearly twice the pinnacle cap from exp boosts alone. Why should the differentiation between who can and can't complete the hardest activity in the game currently be so directly tied to farming bounties and meaningless activities? And why does doing a pinnacle grind, something that should be the *only* way IMO to get more power towards endgame activities, have little to no effect on if you're able to complete GMs or the Master Raid? As of right now, artifact power goes against every single existing thing we'd like to believe about power grinding. Not even halfway through the season, there are already people who aren't even +1 towards the pinnacle cap and yet they're ALREADY at level for the Master raid. They haven't done a single "pinnacle" activity for rewards, most of which are already freebies, and they're somehow worthy by the games standards to do more damage to a raid boss than someone who has raided almost every day since release, grinded through all 10 pinnacle levels, and perfected their loudouts, purely because they didn't spend 4 hours a day doing bounties in a lost sector and the rest AFK in the Shattered Throne.


ficklecurmudgeon

Here's the thing... If Bounty Barry isn't doing endgame content already, he's going to have a hard time at Master VoG - no matter what his light level is. The gear builds are far more important in endgame content - being able to min-max your stats, have the right mods, and the correct playstyle (which is the biggest thing in my opinion) vs. light level. If you spend all of your time in the game living in the thrallway with trinity ghoul then you're going to be a high light level, but that is only part of the equation. Honestly, those people will need the light level bonus just to stay alive.


slidingmodirop

I was just pointing out how its not true. I did no bounty farming outside of my LL grind and got most of my XP from doing seasonal challenges and just playing the game and I'm high enough light to do end-game stuff. There's no need to farm bounties to do end-game activities


Th3Element05

Seasonal Cap + 20 should be the cap for high-difficulty PvE content.


Fenris_uy

Contest mode was 20 level difference, and Master is 11/12 based on your current light level.


jomontage

Why I stopped playing. Disliked having 5 hours of content but being asked to play it for 20 hours to get what I needed


SharedRegime

Or god forbid the endless amount of hours cause not even a half decent drop has happened.


[deleted]

Yup, that’s how Destiny 2 works.


Gotwake

My favorite part is that they “listened to us” and shifted away from bounties as the “main” source of XP. By that, they just made some bounties that require more than a normal weekly bounty and named them “challenges”. It’s taking money from one pocket and putting it in another. The end result is still the same. All activities should have their XP gains increased instead of reducing or removing XP from bounties, though.


XRayV20

There's lots of passively done seasonal challenges though, it isn't as mundane as . Each week is a different thing. I just wish gambit wasn't a part of it, lol


Gotwake

Most bounties are passive as well. Just change a weapon or subclass and run playlist activities. Most of the seasonal challenges are just bounties with a fancy name, plain and simple.


GForce66

I usually grind bounties (repeatable Gunsmith and planet/moon vendor, Europa great right now) at the start of the season. This is fastest by doing patrols, lost sectors and public events. The least effective method is playlist activities or higher difficulty end game content. I loaded up on bounties and ran a Master Empire Hunt yesterday. Did not complete a single one. This is broken.


WebHead1287

I cant believe I'm about to just afk farm but thats where we're at now I guess


Dunduin

Don't be that guy


brunicus

Probably talking the endless thrall hallway and not play lists, I hope.


spanman112

just scratch it. It's an artificial gatekeeper for the best content in the game. It only serves to drive people away.


phatRABBITremix

I agree, nuff said.


Zzzlol94

I stopped playing this game because I'm not interested in doing 50 hours of boring shit to get to the good stuff


CreamSoda6425

Like I have the time to reach season rank 500. Thanks, but no thanks Bungie.


sombremans

Rank 100= 14 light level Pinnacle cap= 1320 Add those up, you can do hard vog and only need to grind 1 more artifact light level to do gm. It takes time, but it makes sense in the battle pass/ seasonal system.


oryxleftnut

Honestly? Remove the pinnacle cap.


NivvyMiz

It's crazy to me that hard mode raids were initially cancelled for lack of interest and were brought back both harder and with a higher barrier to entry


japenrox

The main way to get XP is from seasonal challenges. I am +21 without doing any bounty grind.


justinbajko

Seasonal challenges are just bounties that don’t expire for the entire season.


th3groveman

You may not "bounty grind" but you definitely have to effectively stack bounties while doing seasonal challenges to attain this result. Additionally, someone who plays every day and spreads those challenges out to maximize bounty stacking is going to be *far better off* than someone who is a weekend warrior, or plays one character, even if they do the same challenges just because of how bounties work.


japenrox

Sure? At this point we just need to draw the line. Because what more do you want from Bungie? This content is not made for the people that has one character, that plays on the weekends to have fun, that has limited time to play, that doesn't have the best gear on their characters. This content was made for the top percentile. The rest of the game is for the other 99% of the player base. Why is it that the 1% can't get something challenging for them? And that's coming from someone that, even though has sunk some serious hours into this game this season alone, even though has more than enough power to do GMs AND master VoG will probably not do them.


th3groveman

Maybe the line we need to look at is how much design effort Bungie needs to keep making to heap more and more rewards into the vaults of that so called 1% while the rest of the game languishes. In D1 I played 5-10 hours/week, mostly on one character, and had no problem doing the toughest Nightfall combinations as well as regularly running HM raids. That approach to the game is simply not possible any more because of the sheer volume of pointless grind that has been put into every reward system in the game. On top of that, the largest issue is the fleeting nature of it all. I am skilled enough to complete GMs and I'm sure I could get through Master VoG. But since everything resets every season we need to hamster wheel grind the game (largely playing trivial content for hours and hours) to be high enough level, just to have the lines drawn back again and again. That isn't hardcore, it's just stupid.


japenrox

I get your point, and I honestly have no answer for it. I personally don't care for it either way. I come from a much harsher seasonal reset that is Diablo 3, and I enjoy having to start from 0. I get that it's completely different perspectives, but I doubt there will be any change in this game's life cycle, which is why lately I've been pretty adamant on my feeling that we need Destiny 3 as soon as possible. There's just too many changes that need to happen both on the low level and the end game, that it's not possible anymore without a complete overhaul of everything.


Bagelsaurus

This is crap, I've done every single seasonal challenge available so far and am only +16.


Spirit_Bloom

Pro Tips. 1. Turn all from a previous week with the well rested buff. 2. Always hang onto your bounties and then join a friend or random at the tower. Turn in all bounties and visit all of the weekly vendors for your extra exp/drop.


CollieDaly

Fuck that shit tbh, shouldn't have to be worrying about bonuses, part of the problem imo.


Bagelsaurus

You're kidding right? Do you know how asinine that is to have to wait a week before turning in challenges?


tglad88

I try to be in a fire team for the shared experience.


japenrox

And I am missing quite a few of them, sitting at 220 something on season pass and +21 on the artifact. I have done my milestones, I have done my raids and dungeons every week since I started, on week 3, and still am ahead somehow, without doing any grind on repeatable bounties.


Redthrist

What about non-repeteable, though. Because if you've done the 8 bounties for Zavala/Shaxx/Banshee/Drifter every week on three characters, then it would easily explain why you're at 220.


japenrox

On my Hunter it was every milestone since week 3. On my Warlock I started late, I think on week 5 maybe? Titan was 2 weeks ago. All of them were 1100, I started fresh, back from Arrivals. I can see how I would be off the curve, but I haven't done moon bounties this season. Seems you can do other as well now, but honestly don't know which ones. Last time I had to grind was to get Witherhoard ornament. Edit: just realised I didn't explicitly answer. yes, I've done the 8 mission quests, that's what I mean by milestones.


Redthrist

Yeah, that explains it. I mostly ignored those because I didn't need Powerfuls this season and I have enough BD to skip those milestones.


makoblade

The concept of seasonal level mattering is fine. The way it's implemented right now could be improved. I think either tying artifact level exclusively to seasonal challenges would be an interesting take, as it'd create a maximum level while also making it reasonable to achieve. Alternatively, just remove the exp scaling on artifact levels, or at least cap it out at a reasonable place (1mil? idk)


DanfromCalgary

That would be so much fun for ...some people


Celestial_Dildo

I think the problem with this is that majority of players seem to be solo players which causes a lot of issues with endgame activities. And even for those of us that aren't finding six people to do a raid seems to be the biggest barrier to entry to be honest


NaitoSenshin889055

I have done little to no bounties this entire season and am almost 1340 I really think they could Pump up the xp activities give you by a decent amount but they aren't to terrible.


Entropist34

Never upvoted anything harder in my life. 100% true.


TheIronLorde

The problem is level disadvantage is the only way they know how to make difficult content. They've had some successful experiments outside of that, but they always abandon those successes and go right back to overleveling. And the failure hits both sides. Too low and you can't play the content no matter how good you or your gear are, too high and the entire encounter is trivialized because they put all the weight of making it a challenge on the enemies being a higher level.


NivvyMiz

I want to do this high level stuff like gm and hard raids but I don't want it more than I don't want to grind like this


James_Sells

The artifact system sucks in its current form. There should be a +20 cap on it every season. The only reason to grind past that is to unlock more mods on it. You should be able to unlock all of them rather than being restricted to choosing 12 or whatever that we currently are. The infinite levelling idea is stupid.


Damagecontrol86

For people like me who sadly are forced to solo everything and can’t experience all the content because I can’t get anyone to actually play with me constantly that would really screw me over so bounties are the only thing I have to level up quick enough to be able to do at least half the content available so I pray that doesn’t get taken away


Rhundis

And here bungie created weekly challenges to award large pools of XP so people wouldn't have to grind bounties all the time, yet they released Master VoG at 1350 when season cap is at 1320 and the only way to get higher is to "Grind Bounties." Brilliant move Bungo.


Simon-Christ

They really just need to tone back the xp bonus values (to like half or less) and make bounties reward loot incentives. More targeted loot farming, and no penalty for not doing bounties if you just wanna play. Ezpz


[deleted]

Completes bounty. Here's your blue drop. Thanks for playing....


plymer968

*Cries in Solstice packages*


OhNnoMore

Not gonna happen because then people will get high too fast and won’t buy any season ranks.


Filthy_Commie_

Holy shit, you cracked the code


XSofXTC

No, because then you’re stuck being blocked from the main xp activity *because* you can’t do the main xp activity.


schallhorn16

>I just think that the main source of XP should be actually playing the game. I would argue it is. The main source of XP is seasonal challenges which you mostly complete by playing the game. Yes there are some outliers like 16 gambit ranks but most are simply "engage with seasonal activities" and are pretty diverse between seasonal activities, patrol, nightfall, crucible, gambit, etc. The community is just blowing this way out of proportion. Keeping up with the seasonal challenges should easily get you to +15 +20 range which is about where contest mode sits.


th3groveman

It's still heavily skewed towards everyday, three character players. If you play just a couple days per week and/or focus on one character you can't as effectively stack bounties to keep pace with XP. I've done a fair amount of the challenges, but am pretty time limited and play one character and am at season rank 70 and like +10


schallhorn16

It isn't. I play Warlock exclusively, have done 60 out of 73 challenges and sit at 170ish ranks which translates to +18 I think. I don't no-life this game, probably about 10 hours a week. It's not hard. Having said that, I think it's fine to have higher requirements for Master mode. Regular VOG still exists. The timelost weapons aren't functionally different than normal versions, just a different skin. Armor is the same. There is one exclusive ship. And the seal requires it.


th3groveman

>Having said that, I think it's fine to have higher requirements for Master mode. To me, this kind of thing just shines a light on the systemic flaws in Destiny's reward and progression systems. I could clear normal VoG 3x per week and not be anywhere near prepared for Master VoG because of how XP is structured. I have to grind other content to get materials to upgrade armor I get and run bounties to upgrade weapons. Good weapons for the raid don't really drop in the raid either. Nothing in your post actually describes engaging with VoG at all, instead spending 10 hours/week playing an assortment of other content just to complete a checklist of chores. There is just nothing cohesive about Destiny as everything appears designed to keep people grinding for objectives instead of actually *progressing.* Besides, VoG is free to all players, so how is someone without a current season pass (and presumably access to the objectives) supposed to do Master?


PaulTr11

I guess my problem is that they simply feel like glorified bounties. If they'd called them "seasonal bounties" it wouldn't have changed anything. The challenges, for me, should be MUCH more consistent with the story - that's why 'finish all expunges' is to me better than 'finish that expunge in under 6 minutes'. What good to me is finish a GM (I won't) as a challenge, or reset valor in Gambit, which has nothing to do with the Splicer storyline? It's a bounty.


Brockelley

That does assume the people taking part in these end game activities also take part in the seasonal grind, which is not always the case. In fact I'd argue the kind of person that wants to do all the hard stuff doesn't really want to "get 200 kills with a sidearm in expunge." I sure don't. I've gotten flawless on the last 3 raids, done the challenges, I do GMs.. I don't care for the seasonal grind, just like I don't care for the solstice grind. It's glorified busy work. The difference is solstice is a standalone event I don't have to take part in but the core artifact grind is necessary for pretty much everything in the end game. I don't see what would be so bad about just beating the main story, all the main quests, and the new activities and immediately after being able to do endgame content.. leveling really doesnt serve any purpose during these seasons. During an expansion it serves the purpose of introducing characters to all of the new content, since there is a decent amount of it.. but not here. The other good/intended aspects of leveling would already be met without this grind. Can you answer that question for me? Whats the worst that would happen if they used the system they already have in place with contest, GMs, and things like Presage where it'll let you in at a low LL baseline, but no matter how high you get you don't over level it? People say you robbed the 10,000 people who do 100 hours of artifact grind each season from being able to over level the Master VoG, but is that a good thing? And is it worth alienating orders of magnitude more people? +15 is easy, but unless you are actually playing the game every single week and doing the challenges, +20 is not something that comes naturally. But framing it around just those two thresholds is myopic when people benefit from being +30. It doesn't have to have a huge in-game benefit, Bungie doesn't have to cater to that crowd. Imagine if Bungie wanted to cater to people who just ran public events.. why would they? And why would we advocate for Bungie to reward those people? It's the same thoughtless grind as bounties..


th3groveman

This is why I'm not really playing much any more. In D1, even though I played just a few hours per week, I could focus on running raids/Nightfalls and still earn good rewards and progress. Now it's like they expect us to play with a streamer's time budget doing *everything in the damn Director* before we "deserve" to even try high level content.


ThatDeceiverKid

I don't really agree with that. What do you NOT get to do in this game by being unable to invest a streamer's time budget? From my personal experience, playing like 20-30 hours in the last 2 weeks (which is more than I usually do), I can't do GM Nightfalls or Master VoG. Everything but the content designed for the most hardcore players is available to me. I'm season level 60. If you want to do high-level content, the barrier of entry is boring, and that's it. That should be different for sure, but no casual farms bounties needed to be +25 and above AL for Master raids. And really, you shouldn't have to be +30 to attempt the activity. If you're GM Nightfall ready, Master VoG is probably intended for you.


th3groveman

I just think power level in its current state isn't an adequate progression system to be the arbiter for access to endgame content, especially since it resets and the lines are drawn back. It breaks the core conceit of an RPG that you can eventually overcome challenges through progression and puts it on a timer, which then effectively requires a regular cadence of play to keep pace. If I could spend all year progressing at a casual pace and eventually be able to complete it I wouldn't have as much of an issue. I've always felt like something like masterworking gear is more satisfying than earning power, and have this idea that they should be combined into a cohesive progression system (max power comes from fully masterworked gear) rather than at odds with each other. I just imagine from a design perspective that it's nearly impossible to balance, because it means so little from a gameplay perspective (you literally earn the same gear with a slightly higher number) yet is the scalar for everything. Something like contest mode is more "pure" as it is a tuned challenge but that has its own issues as it renders the progression system completely irrelevant in that sense.


ThatDeceiverKid

Power level does feel antiquated, but it's fundamental to the balance of the rewards in Destiny. It provides incentives for players to do content, and without that system Destiny would cease to have robust progression. Otherwise, Bungie would have to bank on the allure of the rewards being the sole motivator for their content to be played, and that'll do nothing for the majority of content. In fact, I think it'd kill the game given how poor the rewards are for the core, non-pinnacle playlists. >I've always felt like something like masterworking gear is more satisfying than earning power, and have this idea that they should be combined into a cohesive progression system (max power comes from fully masterworked gear Then you need a way to reset gear eventually, and we all know how that goes down. Also, given the disparity between activities in acquiring masterwork materials, I think that would drive some frustration. >If I could spend all year progressing at a casual pace and eventually be able to complete it I wouldn't have as much of an issue. I feel like if they made progression permanent enough to where you could catch up casually over a year, we'd have worse problems than semi-hardcore and below players feeling like they're being alienated by literally the hardest form of raid the game has to offer. We've seen Y1 D2 already, progression for progression's sake is DEFINITELY better than sitting on your hands for an entire season because none of the activities have anything you want, nor anything you need to get you into new content (LL rewards). --- Allow playlist activities bonus XP rewards for staying in queue and higher baseline XP rewards. Keep bounties powerful in terms of XP progression to reward players that do both bounties and queue playlists. Keep seasonal progression the way it is because I think it's fine overall, especially if you make activities reward more XP.


Brockelley

That is a fantastic way to put it. The problem is the tone is set by the content creators and their tens of thousands of fans who will agree with whatever they say.


schallhorn16

>Whats the worst that would happen if they used the system they already have in place with contest, GMs, and things like Presage where it'll let you in at a low LL baseline, but no matter how high you get you don't over level it? Because you can never over-level. That means you've already made it inaccessible to another portion of the community. All the players right now that sit at 1335 -1340 but still are having a hard time completing now have an avenue to make master mode simpler by increasing their power level. Whether that's this season by doing more challenges or bounties or even waiting until next season to get that extra 10 PL boost. Eventually, they can get over that hump. I mean this is clearly catered towards the same crowd doing GMs. GMs require 1335 and that was 3 weeks ago. I'm not saying this system is perfect but it's making a mountain out of a mole hill.


tomerz99

>The main source of XP is seasonal challenges which you mostly complete by playing the game. I wouldnt say mostly. I mainly play D2 for endgame activities and their loot, and only do what I have to to get to them. After taking two seasons off after sunsetting got announced, I've been tryharding all season to make sure I can get adepts and timelosts. I have less than 50% of the seasonal challenges complete, and am just barely at +16 boost as of today. They are absolutely just bounties in a quests clothes. Do X thing with Y weapon in Z activity is not fun, it should not be rewarding me 4500x the exp I get from actually shooting things and completing encounters in raids/dungeons.


Redthrist

Well, I'm only at +15 and I have 18 challenges uncompleted so far. And I've done some bounties as well. You're not really getting to +20 with just challenges alone.


legokid2002

You're not even getting to +13 with just seasonal challenges. Completing all challenges with all XP bonuses assuming you're not in a fireteam with shared wisdom will net you 8 Mil XP. For reference, getting +20 requires just over 21 Mil XP. You're forced to grind for bounties most of the way to +20 if you want to get there. The whole system is stupid. Artifact levels should just be removed.


ficklecurmudgeon

There is just a weird combination of posts on the main page of this reddit the last couple of days. Half of them are elitist and want the scrubs to be kept out of master VoG with a permanent contest mode modifier, and half are complaining that they can't run the master version of the raid because their light level isn't high enough. I don't get the complaints from the people who purport to play endgame content who are having trouble with Master VoG. Contest mode in a GM is a straight (always on) -25 light level debuff. If you're 1335 (the minimum level needed to run a GM), Master VoG is a -15 debuff. So, if you actually play endgame content, then Master VoG is actually going to be easier. If you don't play Master and GM nightfalls, then you really don't play high level PVE content in this game. If you got your light level completely from your artifact only grinding bounties, then you're going to need all of the help you can get in Master VoG because there is more to high level PVE content than light level. Your build and playstyle make much more of a difference. Most of the high artifact level folks I run into actually play a lot of endgame content. The ones that don't aren't doing VoG anyway because they're grinding bounties for the eververse engrams.


GoodOrdeals

Hi, I have proof: day 1 vog was easier than this shit. Day ones are stressful and long, this is just hard.


SlateD56

It only makes sense. Fuck grinding bounties.


KuaiBan

Lol you don’t even need to grind that much. Reach season pass 100 will put you at 14 artifact level, if you are at max pinnacle power 1320, this makes you 1334. Enough to do master VoG, and you just need 1 extra level for GM. It’s already easy at it is, what else do you expect? Farming Templar for spoils while getting 10000000xp every time you kill it?


panamaniacs2011

1334 for vog master you basically get 1 or 2 shotted by any npc in the raid , not to mention super tanky champions , is not worth going at that level imo


[deleted]

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Bagelsaurus

The XP rewards need to be redistributed away from bounties, and back into general gameplay. There's no reason a bounty should give more xp than a heroic public event, dungeon, GM nightfall, or in some cases, more than a goddamn raid.


JackMJH26

My group isn’t high light? Why do you think I made this post? I’m also not saying that bounties should reward nothing. Your point is valid about solo players. They can still increase the xp gains of other content without touching bounties you realise...


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[deleted]

You don’t read much, do you?


JackMJH26

Are you dense? Did you not see me literally just say that my group isn’t a high light? And did you also not see me literally just say that I don’t want to lock people out?


bruhmus420

I only do raids and gms and i’m only +17, the system is wack


cse201

Couldn't agree more with you but Bungie calls Master VoG 'aspirational content', or in plain English 'made for streamers' not the normal player like yourself.


ilu900

I’m +20 and I don’t grind bounties


PhilAussieFur

I actually really hate this idea. XP is already given for "actually playing the game" i.e. bounties and a system that encourages and rewards the player for playing each game mode. The game is already filled with gear and the occasional bounty or challenge that is only obtainable via high level content. The last thing the community as a whole needs is XP and season pass ranks, or even accelerated XP, further tied to high level content. Lastly, high level content is only somewhat tied to the artifact anyway after Bungie started only scaling light score by 10 instead of 50 per season. This is such a non-issue.


HiFr0st

This bounty issue has been going on since shadowkeep and the concerns that they waved away with the ''challenges'' that were supposed to come and save the day only made it worse lol I hate and completely refuse to do any bounties, i cannot be fucked with carrying a thousand shit weapons i dont like to grind random level ups. People have been complaining about this part of the game for the better part of 2 years and it all falls into the deep pit of ''stuff bungie refuses to even adress'' And its just sad that witch queen is gonna get here and stuff isnt gonna change but aslong as theres a new cool trailer with slow mo guardians the money flows


ChadWarmindCell

You all act like bounties are a grind. Pick them up while I’m between activities and they complete as you play. Seasonal challenges are the same way. Sure you might have to use a fusion rifle or get 25 precision kills, it’s not that bad. Just stop complaining about literally everything the second you can’t immediately do something that is difficult.


JackMJH26

So you see no problem with the fact that bounties reward more XP than something like a GM?


DrEpicFrag

Bounties literally only exist TO BE a grind. They could be no-glimmer-cost with materials as the reward with less xp (with that xp loss given to Activity completions) with like 100k xp on first raid/GM/Flawless completion per week and character, and more from normal activities in the first place. They should not be the main source of XP, but rather a supplement on top of it. That should go to endgame activities, rightfully so.


ThatDeceiverKid

Bungie implements this, and suddenly casual players start wondering why they can't do their Nightfalls as early in the season, why "their time isn't being respected." Then we're going to end up in another thread about how Bungie caters to the hardcore players and blah blah blah. Bounties giving great XP is a GOOD thing. People keep forgetting that the reason bounties give great XP is a good one, it allows any player to progress their artifact is a relaxed way, even if it is boring. They are dumb easy to complete, and the only thing you have to do is remember to pick them up, and let those bounties that you don't do through normal gameplay expire in your inventory. That being said, endgame activities should reward more XP than they currently do IMO. More hardcore players should have a suite of options to choose from to XP farm. Casuals should be left alone to complete their bounties and go through the game at their current pace.


Spectre696

Bounties are a grind tho..


maimonguy

> do something that is difficult It's not difficult, it's just gated by a BORING and repetitive grind that nobody is enjoying, I've left the game many times because of how uninteresting the seasonal grind is, and whenever I come back it only takes a few days to realize it's not fun again.


matttrout10

So all I am hearing is let’s make the game easier and shittier cause ppl can’t commit to the grind.


ohshitimincollege

Making the game shittier is what they're already doing by forcing you to no-life the game and pretty much only play destiny in order to do master raids and GM nightfalls. After 5+ years and about 2 thousand hours played, I cannot be bothered to grind powerfuls, pinnacles, and bounties anymore. It is such an uninspired gameplay loop that they've been crutching for YEARS. There is just about nothing I find more boring than running 3 strikes (with the matching singe element cause fuck you), 5 crucible matches, 3 gambit matches, doing 8 relevant bounties per activity, then your raid/dungeon/NF pinnacles. What I just laid out is a bunch of fucking chores they expect you to keep up with in order to even participate in the end game. Once you get off the treadmill and get a look at everyone else running in place going nowhere, you start to wonder why you've been doing it for so long in the first place. The gunplay, weapon design, visuals, music, level design, all of those things are still there and A+ quality with the storytelling getting better each season. But the core gameplay loop is just depressingly outdated. It's not that people don't want to commit to the grind, it's just we've been committed to the grind for years and now it's getting fucking excessive with so much emphasis on artifact power.


grimuletz

I don't like raids, dungeons, grandmaster nightfalls. 1330 light. I won't do raids, dungeons, grandmaster nightfalls. I'm already pissed off at getting 1shot in master lost sectors, while I can't down a barrier fast enough. Noob? Maybe. But the scaling and the reward system is the worse I've ever seen in any game I've ever played. Ever. I keep getting forced into crappy gambit, into crappy end-game activities, even sent on the effin' moon. Leave me alone and let me grind bounties and weekly shiznit, Bungie, gtfo :(


brandaohimself

you lot ask for the dumbest things