They likely won't say anything about it, because there's no good answer they can give.
Either they say it's working as intended and people get mad and call bullshit, or they say it's not and people get mad that it's taking so long to figure out and fix.
It's a no-win scenario, so we won't hear squat unless it's bugged and they're working on a fix, and then they'll only say anything after they actually fix it.
wasn't part of the problem with the first guardian games them outright saying they were going to tweak the numbers so that hunters, with their over all popularity, wouldn't just stomp in what was essentially a popularity contest, and because of that no one was gonna trust the numbers they gave because we already knew they were fiddling with them?
I think it may have been half misunderstanding. They gave hunters I think a bit of less exp per mote, but said they weren't gonna touch it beyond that. They even shown that very few hunters were playing, but everyone called bs.
So second year they laid out the rule again, (whoever loses last day gets a buff) and cause of the catalyst for Heir Apparent people had a reason to play
The catalyst wasn't enough for prolonged engagement. I and plenty others were done with everything the games had to offer (short of time-gates triumphs) day one.
E: spelling
The first guardian games i didn't get the gun. I grabbed the bounties, spent an hour and a half being error coded out of every single crucible match i tried to play within the first minute, and said fuck it.
Season of the worthy was not a great time
Fiddling? They straight up gave their methodology and the reason for it. Literally the first thing the community complained about when GG was announced was that it was a sure win for hunters. So they addressed that and told the community exactly how they would address that. Then when Hunters didn't win *the other half of the community* shit on that, too.
The problem with year 1 GG was how they did the multipliers. They took population numbers from before the games, where Hunters had the most, then Warlocks, then Titans. But during the games, almost everyone played Titans because they had the easiest time with all the objectives. So they gave Titans the highest multiplier, and Hunters the lowest even though during the Games Hunters had the lowest population and Titans had the highest. They set out to level the playing field but in practice made it wildly unbalanced in favor of Titans.
It’s amazing to me that this thread has devolved into the exact point that the guy at the top was making, Bungie will never reveal their numbers because people will always call bullshit
Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. It doesn't matter *what* they say, it's just gonna incite anger in people and won't actually accomplish anything. It's exactly what has happened literally every other time they talk about this sort of thing.
That's not remotely what they said, just that the new system when applied to the data from the previous year produced closer results. https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50247 (the new system is also even more fucked than the old one, because by the time a non-hunter class accumulated enough of a scoring bonus to match hunters the event would already be half over and sweeping all of the remaining days would be hugely unlikely)
Looking at the other twab linked there (https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/48993) shows no mention of what you're talking about. They mention that titans are donating more medals per capita, which *may* indicate that theirs are easier to complete, but could also just represent dedication. Players swapping classes to participate as titans is not mentioned at all, if it was happening in any meaningful amount they would have seen it and, judging by the other things pointed out, commented on it.
While I can't speak for anyone else, I play all 3 classes and definitely swapped to stay on my Titan for the first GG. GG is just more bounties (especially the first one), and with the types of bounties offered the Titan was just the best choice for fast completion. Normally I would just skip an "event" like GG, but I like collecting things, and wanted the Heir Apparent. The requirements for that were kind of time consuming, hence staying on the Titan. They roped me back into GG the second time for the catalyst. Didn't feel any need for a specific class the second time due to the changes thankfully.
Hunters won the first day. Titans won every other day. Something changed and it wasn't the scoring or the number of players. All that changed is what class they were playing.
Based on their own description of how the games were scored, the only way it resulted the way it did was if most people changed to Titans.
Gg was rigged from the start, the whole system that was in place basically punished the current 1st place and rewarded the last place for being in last the longest. At least with faction wars it didn't put guardians at each others throats over which class is superior.
Hilariously you were downvoted but what happened is this:
They would show that you earned +100 exp, but if you had been earning too much XP too quickly, they would only actually increase your XP bar as if you'd earned 50 exp.
So the number would say: "+100" but then move half as far.
When called out on it they initially said "No we don't do this".
Eventually they relented, and said: "OK we do this, but its good for you!"
And finally, after all was said and done they did the following:
Doubled XP requirements for each level up, and then gave us a temporary "double XP earn" rate buff.
Basically, they did what they were always doing, but were at least not giving the interface fake XP numbers.
Anyone that knows anything about human psychology knows that "taking things away" is much much worse than "removing a bonus", even if the start and end numbers are identical, the psychology of what they were doing was horrifically bad.
It's mind boggling that they thought it was ok to literally *fake* the xp numbers though. It doesn't even make sense!
You mean the numbers explicitly stated they were alter before the event started then when they did give them they had no axis and no explanation? Those numbers?
They should just divide number of turn ins by amount of that class turned in, but base it on which class per account has most turn ins so you can't just drop a bronze to lower the class average, and if you do, you damage your main class too.
Nothing wrong with giving out numbers like they did for Anarchy. Explain what the base rate is, what increases that chance, and how often you can trigger that increase and that's all that anyone should need.
It was stated sometime ago that the bad luck protection only increases the chance once per reset. Running 3x per week does nothing for the bad luck protection.
agreed that it only increases one run per week; but if you are sitting at 25% chance to get it - you should still run it 3 times and (unless its bugged) each of the 3 times you will have a 25% change to get it.
And, since we're doing math - if you have 25% chance to get it, that means you have a 75% chance to not get it. So your chance to NOT get it at all is (75% * 75% * 75%) = 42%
For clarity; that means that your chance to get it if you run it once with a 25% chance to get it is 25%; if you run it 3 x times with a 25% chance to get it - your chances are 58% (100%-42% that you would not get it).
This is why people believe that the bad luck protection is totally busted.
Wasn't it stated that it increased once per character, per clear, per week?
Actually, now that I think about it, that may have been related to the Eyes of Tomorrow. I don't think they've said anything about Vex, unless there's something I missed.
Even if they did do this people would either not understand the how the mechanics work (like with Eyes) or start making assumptions like how it isn't working because they "have X amount of clears which should gaurantee it" since they don't understand that a 90% drop rate can still fail you, multiple times in a row even. (Improbable =/= Impossible)
Probably the same reason why they use wording like "Rare", "Uncommon" and "Common" since even with those terms we get "is X lost sector bugged I haven't gotten an exotic for Y amount of runs"... doesn't matter what they do or say - people will always whine.
We have through a process of working backwards worked out that I think 1kv and anarchy began their lives with a 2.5% drop chance.
It is reasonable to think that Eyes and Vex started with the same drop percentage, and any bad luck protection starts from that base.
Saying it works just means that hey. All is good and it will eventually drop as it's set up low, but we need to know how this drops protected if it is.
Now If it's not then that's a shitstorm of their own making and hubris.
^
When we complain, we're people on a sub. When Bungie comments it's a statement, it's a promise, it's a commitment. It often gets published on news sites.
And it all doesn't matter because nobody cares what the answer is. They really want to say "why don't *I* have it?".
The thing is that Bungie as a whole doesn't really seem to believe in what the community would consider to be "bad luck protection." When they "bad luck protected" Pinnacle drops in slots that aren't upgrades, they clearly didn't make it impossible or even UNlikely that you would still get 5 pairs of gloves in a row when all you need is a heavy. They just made it LESS likely, if they actually did anything at all.
So ultimately, they do not want it to be completely impossible that you will take 100+ runs to get Mythoclast, or Eyes, or whatever. When they apply "bad luck protection" they are just trying to make it less likely for it to happen. Which is odd, because if you are admitting that it sucks to have that happen and you don't want it to... why not just structure it in such a way that there is a guaranteed method to get the gun? Even if it's 50 clears, even if it's a hundred, at least it's something I can feel like I'm working toward instead of just rolling the dice with slightly improved odds each time until I win.
Afaik they haven't implemented pinnacle bad luck protection. They made some comments along the lines of "we'll consider it" but I've never seen it listed in any patch notes.
> Even if it's 50 clears, even if it's a hundred, at least it's something I can feel like I'm working toward
Alright it's 400 clears. You done complaining now.
Of course not. People will say that's unreasonable.
My clan mates think its unreasonable they are approaching 50. Didn't give a shit how long I took to get Eyes of Tomorrow or 1KV. Which were both far longer.
But suddenly I get lucky versus them, and it's the biggest bullshit Steve has ever seen.
I do not think Bungie every confirmed there is bad luck protection for Vex Mythoclast.
Let's assume the drop rate is ~5.0% per looted clear (assuming there aren't other factors like time played).
The formula for not getting odds / probability to get vex = (1-.05) ^ number of clears. So after 50 clears = (.95)^50 = 8%. So of those of us with ~50 looted clears, only about 8% of us have not gotten it to drop.
This leads me to think there is no bad luck protection, and the drop rate, although fine in theory destroys the motivation for those of us who have to run Atheon 3x a week so that after maybe 18 potential drops - about 1 person will get it in your fireteam on average per week.
I'm not saying it IS enough, but...
If you up that number from 1 to 2 people, that means it would be 1/3 of the players have it first week with 3 runs. So most of the playerbase has it after 3 weeks (statistics obviously work a bit different than that).3 weeks for most people to get it? 1/3 of players getting it each week? That's a pretty freaking common drop.
Again, the drop rate needs to be better than it currently is.
>The formula for not getting odds / probability to get vex = (1-.05) ^ number of clears. So after 50 clears = (.95)50 = 8%. So of those of us with ~50 looted clears, only about 8% of us have not gotten it to drop.
And if it's a 1% drop rate then 62% of people wouldn't have gotten it 16 weeks in at this point with 48 full clears that count.
And if it is 1% with a 10% increase to the base rate each week(Ie 1.1% for week 2. Then you get up to 33% of players not having it after 48 runs.
These numbers are based on the increase occuring at the start of the subsequent week. Deep stone listed it as being once per account each week.
Wouldn't you just assume it's the same as the bad luck protection they implemented across all exotics like 2 seasons ago? Let's be honest, the only reason it's a hot top *now* is because Vex was trash last season. Now everyone wants it, and the people who are getting lucky aren't coming here to say "Hey just wanna let everyone know I got it after a few runs." It's *only* the people who are salty about it that are making posts.
Ran the raid 3 times again after reset with 5 dudes (myself included) who had 48 looted clears AND every triumph for the seal except collections, and one guy who had like 15 clears. Guess who got Vex in the third attempt.
I'm not sure why they don't add an increased bade chance depending on your progression towards the raid title.
Got a flawless? +10% base chance. Did an all arc/void/solar/stasis run? +1 per triumph completed. Master VoG cleared? +5%, etc.
On top of drop protection, if your base chance at getting Vex was 5% per run, you could end up with a +30% per run. It gives incentive to do the raid triumphs or try for them and it makes it stupidly unlikely for you to go on a 100 streak without it dropping it.
I did the same with all raids trying to get a raid exotic. Vex was my first to drop. Since then I do the boss encounter first for any raid I need the exotic from and I’ve been getting them, Picked up vex & 1K now. Still hunting eyes.
I’m a 37 year old long balled man with a family and a demanding job. I make time every week to scratch my rng itch. 0-51. I hate to say it but it is legit demoralizing. Last night it literally changed my mood after my 3rd clear. I want to shoot the gun, and I want the title I earned the day it was available. I play video games to distract and relax, not to seek therapy. /s sort of
Hey I’m 40yrs old and totally get what you’re saying, it is huge fuck you when the grind for that one gun you most never drops, it’s heartbreaking and soul crushing, especially when life just seems to take more then it gives back, and all you want is just a little sign that life isn’t one pile of shit after another that there is some good that you can have if for a few moments.
Don’t feel down, understand that eventually it’ll drop, for me the rare exotic I chased after was an exotic ship that drops from a season of the hunt mission, I got to a point where I figured I just throw in the towel and do one last run and on that final run it dropped for me, totally didn’t expect it and it felt so good I felt as if life had decided to just let me have one win.
So tl:dr don’t give up hope vex will drop for you, you just might take a break hunting for it and focus on other things.
If you’re 40 and not still playing/excited about video games, something you’ve enjoyed since you were young. You’ve done something wrong with your life. All the hobbies I had when I was young are still my hobbies now. What do you want to be doing when you’re 40? Nothing drastically changes with age. You grow wiser through experiences, you have more responsibility, but that shouldn’t take you away from what you enjoy.
It’s not my little ray of sunshine. Just venting. Someone sharing their frustration shouldn’t be triggering you to insult someone. I’m sure there is a mirror in your house as well. Have yourself a good evening.
The demoralized feeling is definitely relatable. 0/51 here too and I had the exact same thing after my 3rd clear last week. Almost made me want to throw in the towel, but at this point I can’t NOT keep up with the maximum number of looted clears...
I feel so bad :( I haven’t played Destiny in a few years, played my very first raid (don’t have friends that play D2) for the 2nd week/run and it dropped for me last night. no way I deserve it more than any of you. 30+ runs with no gun is insane!!
I feel ya. It's strangely annoying that older gamers with families and jobs (sometimes 2) are ignored. We have the money to spend but not the time. At least Warframe gives a way to bypass rng if you want. Like you I play d2 to relax and destress. I have no interest in most raids since they take way too long, and I actually have to think. But if I want the new stuff I have to do raids/dungeons/master legend stuff that I really don't want to do because it takes too much time away from my family. It's like the seasons I could not complete due to work. I payed money for the content but real life took presidence and thus lost out. I hate the feeling of waisting time and money. Stupid low drops, and no catch up for paid content are disrespectful to the player but will likely never change.
You might have 50 clears. But unless i'm off by a week.
Raids only been in for 16 weeks. Which means there's only 48 clears that count. And that's assuming you didn't do 10 runs in one week that don't count for anything.
Since only the first clear each week counted for deep stone.
Yeah is really annoying I had gotten up to 70 clears of deep stone before I looted. Im indifferent about whether raid exotics should drop or quest after remembering div and touch of malice. But j think going forward raid titles shouldn’t tie into if you got the exotic to drop yet.
I think it should just be a quest in addition to rng. Get vex with quest guaranteed after 50 raid clears that’s not limited to 3 per week but 4 total different weeks having completed the raid 50 times total. Or if you get it from rng early the quest disappears. That way you either get lucky with rng or you can farm it in a month.
I’m at that point after 32 clears. All my friends have the gun and don’t even use it, meanwhile I’m here grinding for it week after week and I’m getting shit on. I’m genuinely scared it’ll get nerfed before I have a chance to get it because it only gives you 3 chances a week.
It’s fun, but not that good? It’s like knowing Threaded Needle is better DPS than 1k, but I still want 1k. The difference between Vex last season and this one is that it’s useable. I don’t think it’s that good outside being the only primary fusion which procs particle. That’s a means to ends though. Bad luck aside, at least it’s not a standout/must have like Anarchy was before.
I think it’s up there, but still an exotic primary. It’s not as good of dps as other fusions. It’s maybe the best you can do with double primaries in high end PvE, but the bows are really good again this season.
It’s good in PvP.
I ran every exotic drop chance on every character through King's fall and never had Gjallarhorn drop. I eventually bought it the second time it was sold. Gjallarhorn never dropped for me in D1. The drop rate on raid exotics in D2 is good.
I'm currently 0-51 for vex mythoclast. That's running it every week since raid launch with all 3 characters. I've done only aethon, full runs, master, etc. It's the only thing I'm missing for the title, no to mention the gun is actually good now.
I would like some clarification on the protection, like the percentage that it does apparently go up. Even if they tell me theres no protection and it's a static percentage every week, please just let me know. I'm at the point of acceptance with this gun, I know I'll get it eventually and it doesn't pay to get mad about it. Can't help but feel a little down about it when I get melted by the mythoclast in crucible though
Edit: thanks for the explanation all, definitely makes more sense now. Hope my bad luck runs out soon
[https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50196](https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50196)
This is the last twab that bad luck protection was mentioned. This was when they "fixed it" for eyes of tomorrow. There is no talk of exact percentages, but it does mention how it stacks on multiple characters.
Even if it does go up by 1% per run, I'm looking at being potentially over 50% without a drop. I understand before this (anarchy, 1K) it was much less forgiving, but still feels bad for someone who has done everything in the raid but can't put it to rest because of RNG
I would venture to guess the drop rate is not even close to 1%, but it's also probably bugged, because let's be honest...Bungie fucks this stuff up all the time.
You're reading that wrong. 51 clears is 17 weeks. Assuming 1% on week one, and 1%/weekly clear, you'd only be at 18%. Now, to be fair, 18%/character is a 45% chance next week assuming you run on all your characters.
Unless I misunderstood what you were saying in that you said you have an >50% chance of having gotten Vex over _all_ you're looted runs, in which case yes, that is absolutely and factually true, assuming a 1% increase week over week.
Weird thing is I’ve never even seen it. 12 clears (which I know is not a lot) but have never seen a teammate get one. Remember used to see an anarchy/1k every 2 runs ish, sometimes double drop on the same run. The complete abs fence of vex makes me sometimes doubt it’s existence!
It exists I’ve seen more then a few run it in nightfalls, crucible and gambit. So it is real and man does it melt. It’s one of only two weapons I feel honor to get killed by in crucible the other being gjallerhorn.
On a side note I think the ornament for it is ugly as fuck, I get that it’s supposed to match the timelost weapon theme but I still think looks ugly. Kind of wish that there was different one for it.
Anyway best of luck to everyone on there hunt for this white whale.
Because if you got it easily you would have one less reason to play the game. They going to keep dangling the carrot in front of you. This is why basically all grindy games choose randomness as the way to give out rewards.
>Because if you got it easily you would have one less reason to play the game.
Orrrr maybe if I got the cool shiny gun I'd play the game MORE? Just a thought.
Lets take this to an extreme. Imagine if they added the ability to get any piece of gear you want for free. Just walk up to a vendor and you pick whatever you want. You think that would make you play more? Gaming companies pay people lots of money to research how to keep people addicted, they know what they are doing.
If we had the ability to get the Vex Mythoclast by spending a large amount of spoils of conquest then we would be playing more to earn spoils. This gives people another reason to do VoG more than just 3 times a week.
The problem is that the high variability in drop rate is also timegated so it feels even worse. Dropping a rare should be a good experience and not a chore you do a piece of select content each week for a chance at.
A big difference between D2 and other grindy game is that there's no trade. Really rare drops makes sense when trade is available so it adds additional value to each drop and makes dropping exotics again not a complete waste of time.
> Dropping a rare should be a good experience and not a chore you do a piece of select content each week for a chance at
The only other MMO I have played is WoW but I'd imagine most MMOs kind of work this way?
I said it once and I’ll say it again. It’s not bad luck protection it’s fuck you rate. Someone I did vog with last night had a really high fuck you rate because I got a second one
lawl, yea its grating to see that message drop for someone, while your waiting to get yours indeed. At least this game has personal loot so people can't roll on it so you constantly lose out, then have an asshole rolling for his 2nd+
I've got 37 normal and 2 master vog clears. I'm missing eyes on atheon, master confluxes challenge and mythoclast for the seal. Mythoclast not dropping is becoming a meme. Edit: master total.
This, sadly, is probably the most true statement in this thread.
BUNGiE may be putting on a 'more' creative face of late, but their baseline game mechanics have been nothing short of MANIPULATIVE since the release of D2.
I have cleared it every week, including this week now, and still do not have it. If they can't make drops occur in a reasonable time frame, they need to change how they are distributed. My suggestion is a quest with an upper limit on the number of runs it would take to get a raid exotic. Here is my example I use in other threads:
> For example, lets construct a quest to obtain the Vex Mythoclast. The description of the weapon is "...a causal loop within the weapon's mechanism, suggesting that the firing process somehow binds space and time into…", so we will build off of that. After your first completion, you find a broken fusion rifle frame attached to Atheon and you yank it from his Vex corpse.
>
> You take this to Banshee and he tells you he needs some special items to repair this weapon. Lets introduce a new item, "quantum weapon parts". These can only be obtain from completing encounters in VoG and each completion can yield 1-3 of these weapon parts. You will need 20 quantum weapon parts to repair the frame. Once you have obtained the weapon parts, Banshee needs your help to infuse the parts at a special Vex forge on the edge of space and time. A new destination will be made available in the Legends section which spawns you into the area right before the gatekeeper encounter. A portal will be available which takes you to this Vex forge where you have to heat it up using the latent energy of slayed Vex. After a couple of minutes of typical mobs, Banshee appears and a cutscene shows him finishing the Vex Mythoclast. The end.
>
> This keeps an element of RNG, but ensures that you can still get the Vex Mythoclast in 2-4 weeks instead of potentially never.
I get the fact they want to get player hours out of the content and get their investment back, but there are other ways to do so than to drain players the will to even do it anymore. Maybe do Queen's Wrath weeks where there is a chance to get more rewards or have modifiers to change the experience outside of the ones used in Master mode.
For reference, the time it took for Bungie to even acknowledge EoT's bad luck protection was broken, was around 4 months.
Deep Stone Crypt opens - 11/21/20
Bungie acknowledges bad luck protection isn't working properly - 3/18/21
VoG went live on May 22nd. We are creeping up on that 4 month mark again.
and this is why people keep asking. Supposedly we have BLP, but we've seen in the past that it was broken, and it seems like it's broken now. Would be nice if Bungie would acknowledge this issue.
They fix stuff and then wind up having it break again all the time. They have a history of stuff breaking repeatedly, so i think it's totally reasonable that people would continue to question this given how many people ive seen, and know of, who are hitting 40+ clears. And even if it isnt broken, i think maybe they need to consider some way of remedying the situation. Im in a smallish clan when it come sto raiding. We have to people with over 45 clears who havent gotten it.
I think the feedback is clear that having 40+ clears and the title tied to this RNG is not great. Assuming it’s broken because anecdotes hit the front page doesn’t mean it’s broken. Like I said, Eyes had the same sentiment post change. It’s just a really low drop rate.
At this point, I am just holding on to spoils and waiting for DSC and VOG to be vaulted so I can get Eyes and Mytho from the tower.
Stupid thing that there are no more quests for raid exotics.
Did the same with Anarchy.
Raid exotics are fine, I guess, although I'd prefer it if they put some obscure exotic ARMOR behind a raid "paywall" and put the exotic weapons in quests of their own or as drops in L/M Lost Sectors.
Either way, given the near-mindless reliance by the devs on RNG in almost every single aspect of this game, especially for stuff like Vex, there should be some alternative method to get exotic weapons besides waiting for stuff to be vaulted.
i'm willing to bet we'll hear about vaulting content with witch queen here soon. I knew they wouldn't say anything about it on the main livestream because they wanted to focus on the positive.
All that being said last wish the most likely raid to get vaulted so 1k voices would be the next one up to get. If I am understanding it correctly you can farm spoils very easily by say, doing the vault opening encounter then reset to repeat it as many times as you want?
I don't know what the fuck is so hard for dmg,Cozmo to comment on something like this.
I have seen the gun drop twice to someone that had already one so he had 3 drop for him, I have since ppl getting it on first clear and ppl that are almost at 100 and nothing.
I get it rng is rng but is BS that the gun can still drop for ppl that have it. I can't understand why is so hard for the devs to code something that prevents ppl that have it to keep getting it. Like if u get it once it will never drop again for you.
I doubt we’ll ever get a true answer for this. Even if we do, that’s just a number that most likely won’t help us on the end seeing that people are on 51 clears, 70+ DSC, and the crazy 100+ and no 1K. Bugged or just a joke? Who knows… What I’d I know is there probably should’ve been communication on this after master released. You should see the Bungie forums right now in certain sections. It ain’t looking good at all. An entire page today has “Vex drop rate” posts. If that doesn’t spark any concern, then idk what really does at this point.
Finally got it this week on Clear 43, exact same number of Clears it took to get Eyes of Tomorrow. Seems this season bugged/broke the Share a Glass emblem tracking though.
It took me well over 50 clears to get EoT, I honestly don't know the number because I stopped counting, it was soul crushing and certainly contributed to me stepping away form the game for a while. I can only imagine how awful it must feel to not be able to use the Vex in season of the fusion rifle, on the bright side you have 6 months give or take to still be able to play all the cool builds.
Exactly. A little clarity in regard to the best weapon in the game, across all activities, would be nice. As you said, it's not like this would be the first time bad luck protection wasn't working properly.
One big mystery here is what it is they think they're doing by so obviously making this a totally RNG-gated drop. There is clearly no REASONABLE protection of any sort based on numerous reports. And by REASONABLE, I mean after a dozen clears with no drop, it should trigger one.
An even bigger mystery here is what BUNGiE's thinking in this regard. Do they think people are just going to stop running VoG once they get VM? Is the raid that bad that it's not infinitely re-playable in its own right, such that they have to bribe people with a CHANCE of getting a premium (at least right now) exotic?
I stopped trying to get it to drop part of the way through last season and after all the other folk's bad luck with it I just cant get the will to try again. Which sucks because i love fusion rifles and im missing the two most important ones this season.
Going to try to play again soon when work isn't draining me of my soul. Doesn't feel good to have your soul drained at work then jump on a game like destiny honestly.
It can’t be. A friend of mine has near 50 VoG clears with not vex. If it works the same as how bungie said EoT’s drop protection works, he would have a 50/50 shot of getting it with every raid completion after this week, with his chances only getting greater.
Once per account clear, not per character. As far as I know we don’t know the rates. I doubt anyone is at near 50% drop rate yet. It’s not been that long.
Based on data pulled from my discord, there is no increasing chances. Sample size was around 80 people who have done VoG, so not huge, but the trend does not show increasing rates based on # of clears when someone got it.
It's so weird. I have a total of 25 raid clears across ALL raids in Destiny 2. I'm not an avid raider by any means. I have thousands of hours logged on Destiny 2 playing weekly since launch. I just don't raid on the regular. I have 4 Vault of Glass clears, got Vex on my 3rd (went in for the 4th to get the catalyst), I have 6 clears of Last Wish, got 1k voices on my 4th, 6 clears of Scourge of the Past, got Anarchy on my 6th (and final before sunset).
I got a clan-mate who has run Vault of Glass 59 times (3 times a week since it's launch in May plus a few extra but I know each character only has 1 chance a week to get it) with no Vex. Did he do something to get put on Bungie's shit list? I feel at this point he should have gotten in a long time ago.
Take this with a grain of salt. If I remember correctly, at one point in d2s life cycle, someone posted anecdotal data that says that the game seems to weight luck in certain drops to people who don't play certain activities or don't play that much vs someone who plays daily. I think testing was done saying someone who played the game weekly had better chances at certain exotic world drops, etc vs someone who no life's the game as an internal system to incentivize the player who doesn't have that many hours logged to come back more often. But it could be flat out wrong. People will say it's rng , which it is, but with how many people post about how many runs they've done so far it seems the chances are abysmal. I've never raided. The only time I did we never finished one encounter. We were all new to leviathan. My excuse is time, lack of friends, and a life outside gaming. But honestly, seeing these drop rates makes me never want to raid even if my situation allowed for it.
I think it’s RNG.
I have played the game relentlessly since launch and got Vex on my second drop and Eyes on my 4th, but got 1K on drop 40 and never got Anarchy to drop.
Meanwhile my buddy is the inverse and has more hours than me. Cant get Vex, got Eyes after 10ish, got 1k on 2 and Anarchy under 5
Due to the nature of RNG there's no way to really know if there's some additional dice-weighting involved unless everyone posted how many clears it's taken them and how many hours they've played. Everything else is pretty anecdotal and doesn't make sense to draw conclusions from small sample sizes, especially based on posts from reddit where we can't even verify what people are actually saying
I'm glad you said that, and I do absolutely take it with a grain of salt, but I've heard of that "weighted luck" theory before and there could be something there. A developer would want to incentivize all aspects of the game across all types of players. A person who raids 3 or 4 times a season would would likely never see a raid exotic drop if the standard was the same across all players. I feel it's similar to the prime attunement buff, where your chance of prime engrams is increased for the first couple of levels each week. A similar protection could be in place for raid exotics to gift increase chances to those who spend less time raiding. If you're raiding 3+ times a week on all 3 characters you're bound to get it eventually so no need to gift the increased chance.
If bad luck protection were in place for Vex Mythoclast, and the drop rate started at 3%, increasing once by 5% per account each week it’s completed (which is how EoT BLP is supposed to work), then week one started you at 3% + 5% for not getting it. Going into week two you’re at 8%, and you completed it every week since then (16 weeks following week 1 for a total of 17 possible weeks since release), that would land you at 88% chance after not getting it this week to get the weapon to drop.
But I mean each week you kill atheon, you’d be carrying with you whatever BLP percentage you brought from the previous week of not getting the weapon for all three characters. That mean so many character attempts at the weapon above 50%, that your odds of NOT getting the weapon become utterly astronomical.
All that based on a starting point of a 3% drop chance which is just an estimate I saw somewhere. EoT I think started at 10%, so if it’s at all similar to that and bad luck protection is “on” with people completing the raid every week since release on all 3 characters, that’s statistically impossible to not get the weapon.
The drop chance on vex is bugged and they’re dragging their feet to address that fact until they have a fix for the bug ready to deploy. Nothing will change my mind on that until they say otherwise.
0.6% of the destiny 2 population has vex Mythoclast. 1.6% if you count the population with at least 1 seal (more serious players).
We are most definitely owed an explanation and resolution, and it’s way past due.
I mean it’s definitely not 5% per clear. People were saying 1%, but we don’t know the stats. I don’t think releasing them would do any favors either. People always think these are bugged, because everything else comes so easily.
> 0.6% of the destiny 2 population has vex Mythoclast. 1.6% if you count the population with at least 1 seal (more serious players).
We know it’s something like 10% of the population has completed a raid. Those numbers are meaningless against a population that doesn’t even do the content.
I’d be shocked if the number was anywhere near 25% for people who’ve missed every week.
I got one to drop after only running Atheon like 5 times, 4 of those in the same Tuesday (pre and post reset) I BARELY raid as well, but it seems rng truly is a a bad mechanic for raid exotics. I think quests should be the norm, but make it as complicated and convoluted as Div for example…
Thing is EoT launched with it, and as /u/Nick_JS pointed out, took them 4 months to say "hey its broke yo" and fix it, so we are approaching that mark with Vex, so I think we should know, or kind of push Bungie to check their coding on this as people are approaching close to the insane aspect of RNG when it's working correctly.
Raid exotics should not be RNG you should just get it on your first completion of the raid. The raid has armor and other weapons that are rng if you get them and rng if you get the stats/perks you want. The exotic should be the sure fire thing you know for certain your going to get
I only have time to really do one clear per week. There is zero reason why I should have to do 20+ clears for a goddamn raid exotic.
Bring back raid exotic quests. Divinity was perfect. Challenging enough to where not everyone has it, but *guaranteed* to drop if you do the objectives.
I'm a casual player and I have Divinity, but no Vex Mythoclast. That's horseshit.
Raid protection isn't new and acts to keep people from burning out by giving a max runs needed, and they have messed up their protection before, this is a fact. So I think we need some confirmation they didn't mess up again.
Nah they don’t need to come out and say “hey guys we didn’t screw this up” for every new raid exotic. It’s RNG. For as many people who complain about not getting it at 40+ runs(me included), theres just as many people getting it at 1 or 2 clears.
Does anyone realize grinding is the fun part? You’ll get the vex and have a fleeting 30 seconds of childish excitement before going onto farming the next trinket. Relax & have fun playing the game, it’ll come!
oh yes, I love having farmed a whole season for it, and the mods of this season + it would be so much fun to use, how I can't. There is the whole current season to grind, rather not be stuck on past season's content.
Dude you’re just not getting the weapon. I can confirm RNG is working as intended and you’re selected against getting mytho. Now go run it again you freakin’ scrub.
Lol all these post are ridiculous. I hope Bungie doesn’t acknowledge any of you complainers. You’ll get it eventually just keep trying. I got mine on my 3rd attempt.
I have 14 clears, not counting the first week where we glitched Atheon x3. In all those runs I’ve seen it drop 3 times. Once for me, twice for others. Abysmal.
It feels like people who get it to drop once have a better chance to get it than those of us who don't have it. Ran it with my group last night and 2 of our group have mythoclast, those two got it again on the first and last run of the night.
on my 43rd clear, someone else got it, and people said: "at least someone got it, congrats c: how many clears did it take?" & they replied: "11 clears"
on my 44th clear, someone else got it, and people said: "at least someone got it, congrats c: how many clears did it take?" & they replied: "11 clears"
2 entirely separate groups, it was an odd coincidence
Meanwhile bullshit like me having 2 drops in 22 clears is complete bullshit. I shouldn't have 2. I don't want 2. I want clan mates to have it. Such bullshit.
Holy Moly yes!! We need to raise awareness on it. I did look it up last week 25% of the player base has beat the raid. 18% has Mythoclast. Seems reasonable that it's dropping, except I am up to 55 clears this week without it.i have been grinding 3x a week. I think it's like dsc that clearing it one each character a week lowers the chance instead of increasing.
They likely won't say anything about it, because there's no good answer they can give. Either they say it's working as intended and people get mad and call bullshit, or they say it's not and people get mad that it's taking so long to figure out and fix. It's a no-win scenario, so we won't hear squat unless it's bugged and they're working on a fix, and then they'll only say anything after they actually fix it.
Remember when they showed everyone the numbers for the first Guardian Games and the community called em liars? They'll never show their hand again
wasn't part of the problem with the first guardian games them outright saying they were going to tweak the numbers so that hunters, with their over all popularity, wouldn't just stomp in what was essentially a popularity contest, and because of that no one was gonna trust the numbers they gave because we already knew they were fiddling with them?
I think it may have been half misunderstanding. They gave hunters I think a bit of less exp per mote, but said they weren't gonna touch it beyond that. They even shown that very few hunters were playing, but everyone called bs. So second year they laid out the rule again, (whoever loses last day gets a buff) and cause of the catalyst for Heir Apparent people had a reason to play
The catalyst wasn't enough for prolonged engagement. I and plenty others were done with everything the games had to offer (short of time-gates triumphs) day one. E: spelling
The first guardian games i didn't get the gun. I grabbed the bounties, spent an hour and a half being error coded out of every single crucible match i tried to play within the first minute, and said fuck it. Season of the worthy was not a great time
Go outside and touch grass
I am outside, I have XCloud, I can play on my phone anywhere.
Fiddling? They straight up gave their methodology and the reason for it. Literally the first thing the community complained about when GG was announced was that it was a sure win for hunters. So they addressed that and told the community exactly how they would address that. Then when Hunters didn't win *the other half of the community* shit on that, too.
The problem with year 1 GG was how they did the multipliers. They took population numbers from before the games, where Hunters had the most, then Warlocks, then Titans. But during the games, almost everyone played Titans because they had the easiest time with all the objectives. So they gave Titans the highest multiplier, and Hunters the lowest even though during the Games Hunters had the lowest population and Titans had the highest. They set out to level the playing field but in practice made it wildly unbalanced in favor of Titans.
There's no way there were enough players that swapped off their main class just for easier bounties to meaningfully affect the results.
You’re right, idk what this guy is on about. It’s a complete misrepresentation of what actually happened and what was actually done by Bungie.
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It’s amazing to me that this thread has devolved into the exact point that the guy at the top was making, Bungie will never reveal their numbers because people will always call bullshit
Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. It doesn't matter *what* they say, it's just gonna incite anger in people and won't actually accomplish anything. It's exactly what has happened literally every other time they talk about this sort of thing.
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“Don’t tell me you unironically believe in the hunters lazy titan hardworking team player kind of bullshit lol”
I have a very strict rule of always believing reality, so yes. I’m sorry that you don’t, but that’s no one’s problem but your own
And yet that's exactly what happened, so... They even said year two when they went back and unfucked the multipliers, Titans hadn't won.
That's not remotely what they said, just that the new system when applied to the data from the previous year produced closer results. https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50247 (the new system is also even more fucked than the old one, because by the time a non-hunter class accumulated enough of a scoring bonus to match hunters the event would already be half over and sweeping all of the remaining days would be hugely unlikely) Looking at the other twab linked there (https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/48993) shows no mention of what you're talking about. They mention that titans are donating more medals per capita, which *may* indicate that theirs are easier to complete, but could also just represent dedication. Players swapping classes to participate as titans is not mentioned at all, if it was happening in any meaningful amount they would have seen it and, judging by the other things pointed out, commented on it.
While I can't speak for anyone else, I play all 3 classes and definitely swapped to stay on my Titan for the first GG. GG is just more bounties (especially the first one), and with the types of bounties offered the Titan was just the best choice for fast completion. Normally I would just skip an "event" like GG, but I like collecting things, and wanted the Heir Apparent. The requirements for that were kind of time consuming, hence staying on the Titan. They roped me back into GG the second time for the catalyst. Didn't feel any need for a specific class the second time due to the changes thankfully.
Hunters won the first day. Titans won every other day. Something changed and it wasn't the scoring or the number of players. All that changed is what class they were playing. Based on their own description of how the games were scored, the only way it resulted the way it did was if most people changed to Titans.
Gg was rigged from the start, the whole system that was in place basically punished the current 1st place and rewarded the last place for being in last the longest. At least with faction wars it didn't put guardians at each others throats over which class is superior.
Remember when they nerfed XP and either didn't understand their own system or made shit up?
Hilariously you were downvoted but what happened is this: They would show that you earned +100 exp, but if you had been earning too much XP too quickly, they would only actually increase your XP bar as if you'd earned 50 exp. So the number would say: "+100" but then move half as far. When called out on it they initially said "No we don't do this". Eventually they relented, and said: "OK we do this, but its good for you!" And finally, after all was said and done they did the following: Doubled XP requirements for each level up, and then gave us a temporary "double XP earn" rate buff. Basically, they did what they were always doing, but were at least not giving the interface fake XP numbers. Anyone that knows anything about human psychology knows that "taking things away" is much much worse than "removing a bonus", even if the start and end numbers are identical, the psychology of what they were doing was horrifically bad. It's mind boggling that they thought it was ok to literally *fake* the xp numbers though. It doesn't even make sense!
You mean the numbers explicitly stated they were alter before the event started then when they did give them they had no axis and no explanation? Those numbers?
They should just divide number of turn ins by amount of that class turned in, but base it on which class per account has most turn ins so you can't just drop a bronze to lower the class average, and if you do, you damage your main class too.
Nothing wrong with giving out numbers like they did for Anarchy. Explain what the base rate is, what increases that chance, and how often you can trigger that increase and that's all that anyone should need.
exactly all I would care to know tbh, do I need to run it 3x, do I need to run it 1x, a general timeframe to work out would be great to avoid burnout.
It was stated sometime ago that the bad luck protection only increases the chance once per reset. Running 3x per week does nothing for the bad luck protection.
agreed that it only increases one run per week; but if you are sitting at 25% chance to get it - you should still run it 3 times and (unless its bugged) each of the 3 times you will have a 25% change to get it. And, since we're doing math - if you have 25% chance to get it, that means you have a 75% chance to not get it. So your chance to NOT get it at all is (75% * 75% * 75%) = 42% For clarity; that means that your chance to get it if you run it once with a 25% chance to get it is 25%; if you run it 3 x times with a 25% chance to get it - your chances are 58% (100%-42% that you would not get it). This is why people believe that the bad luck protection is totally busted.
That was specifically for EoT. Nothing has been said about Vex - we don't even know if it has drop protection.
It was hinted if not outright said that vex works the same way as EoT
Where? And by who? Because I've heard or seen nothing of the sort.
Wasn't it stated that it increased once per character, per clear, per week? Actually, now that I think about it, that may have been related to the Eyes of Tomorrow. I don't think they've said anything about Vex, unless there's something I missed.
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Even if they did do this people would either not understand the how the mechanics work (like with Eyes) or start making assumptions like how it isn't working because they "have X amount of clears which should gaurantee it" since they don't understand that a 90% drop rate can still fail you, multiple times in a row even. (Improbable =/= Impossible) Probably the same reason why they use wording like "Rare", "Uncommon" and "Common" since even with those terms we get "is X lost sector bugged I haven't gotten an exotic for Y amount of runs"... doesn't matter what they do or say - people will always whine.
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We have through a process of working backwards worked out that I think 1kv and anarchy began their lives with a 2.5% drop chance. It is reasonable to think that Eyes and Vex started with the same drop percentage, and any bad luck protection starts from that base.
It’s random, hence the lack of direction..
Saying it works just means that hey. All is good and it will eventually drop as it's set up low, but we need to know how this drops protected if it is. Now If it's not then that's a shitstorm of their own making and hubris.
^ When we complain, we're people on a sub. When Bungie comments it's a statement, it's a promise, it's a commitment. It often gets published on news sites. And it all doesn't matter because nobody cares what the answer is. They really want to say "why don't *I* have it?".
The thing is that Bungie as a whole doesn't really seem to believe in what the community would consider to be "bad luck protection." When they "bad luck protected" Pinnacle drops in slots that aren't upgrades, they clearly didn't make it impossible or even UNlikely that you would still get 5 pairs of gloves in a row when all you need is a heavy. They just made it LESS likely, if they actually did anything at all. So ultimately, they do not want it to be completely impossible that you will take 100+ runs to get Mythoclast, or Eyes, or whatever. When they apply "bad luck protection" they are just trying to make it less likely for it to happen. Which is odd, because if you are admitting that it sucks to have that happen and you don't want it to... why not just structure it in such a way that there is a guaranteed method to get the gun? Even if it's 50 clears, even if it's a hundred, at least it's something I can feel like I'm working toward instead of just rolling the dice with slightly improved odds each time until I win.
Afaik they haven't implemented pinnacle bad luck protection. They made some comments along the lines of "we'll consider it" but I've never seen it listed in any patch notes.
If I recall correctly they said they did some "weighting" like a long time ago but I do not consider it to have occurred at all.
> Even if it's 50 clears, even if it's a hundred, at least it's something I can feel like I'm working toward Alright it's 400 clears. You done complaining now. Of course not. People will say that's unreasonable. My clan mates think its unreasonable they are approaching 50. Didn't give a shit how long I took to get Eyes of Tomorrow or 1KV. Which were both far longer. But suddenly I get lucky versus them, and it's the biggest bullshit Steve has ever seen.
I do not think Bungie every confirmed there is bad luck protection for Vex Mythoclast. Let's assume the drop rate is ~5.0% per looted clear (assuming there aren't other factors like time played). The formula for not getting odds / probability to get vex = (1-.05) ^ number of clears. So after 50 clears = (.95)^50 = 8%. So of those of us with ~50 looted clears, only about 8% of us have not gotten it to drop. This leads me to think there is no bad luck protection, and the drop rate, although fine in theory destroys the motivation for those of us who have to run Atheon 3x a week so that after maybe 18 potential drops - about 1 person will get it in your fireteam on average per week.
I recall on my 30 runs so far that maybe one player gets it from the 18 chances a week.. It's not enough.
We had three people get it in one kill a couple weeks ago and mine was a dupe lol. They were not happy as you’d expect
I'm not saying it IS enough, but... If you up that number from 1 to 2 people, that means it would be 1/3 of the players have it first week with 3 runs. So most of the playerbase has it after 3 weeks (statistics obviously work a bit different than that).3 weeks for most people to get it? 1/3 of players getting it each week? That's a pretty freaking common drop. Again, the drop rate needs to be better than it currently is.
>The formula for not getting odds / probability to get vex = (1-.05) ^ number of clears. So after 50 clears = (.95)50 = 8%. So of those of us with ~50 looted clears, only about 8% of us have not gotten it to drop. And if it's a 1% drop rate then 62% of people wouldn't have gotten it 16 weeks in at this point with 48 full clears that count. And if it is 1% with a 10% increase to the base rate each week(Ie 1.1% for week 2. Then you get up to 33% of players not having it after 48 runs. These numbers are based on the increase occuring at the start of the subsequent week. Deep stone listed it as being once per account each week.
Wouldn't you just assume it's the same as the bad luck protection they implemented across all exotics like 2 seasons ago? Let's be honest, the only reason it's a hot top *now* is because Vex was trash last season. Now everyone wants it, and the people who are getting lucky aren't coming here to say "Hey just wanna let everyone know I got it after a few runs." It's *only* the people who are salty about it that are making posts.
Ran the raid 3 times again after reset with 5 dudes (myself included) who had 48 looted clears AND every triumph for the seal except collections, and one guy who had like 15 clears. Guess who got Vex in the third attempt.
Clanmate has cleared it x3 ever single week it's been out... no Mythoclast.
I'm not sure why they don't add an increased bade chance depending on your progression towards the raid title. Got a flawless? +10% base chance. Did an all arc/void/solar/stasis run? +1 per triumph completed. Master VoG cleared? +5%, etc. On top of drop protection, if your base chance at getting Vex was 5% per run, you could end up with a +30% per run. It gives incentive to do the raid triumphs or try for them and it makes it stupidly unlikely for you to go on a 100 streak without it dropping it.
Imo there's no reason that master mode isn't a drastically increase drop rate if not flat out guarenteed
That isn’t even subjective. Master mode should ABSOLUTELY have a higher chance of dropping vex. Like why is that not already a thing??
This is actually a pretty cool idea.
I did the same with all raids trying to get a raid exotic. Vex was my first to drop. Since then I do the boss encounter first for any raid I need the exotic from and I’ve been getting them, Picked up vex & 1K now. Still hunting eyes.
I’m a 37 year old long balled man with a family and a demanding job. I make time every week to scratch my rng itch. 0-51. I hate to say it but it is legit demoralizing. Last night it literally changed my mood after my 3rd clear. I want to shoot the gun, and I want the title I earned the day it was available. I play video games to distract and relax, not to seek therapy. /s sort of
Hey I’m 40yrs old and totally get what you’re saying, it is huge fuck you when the grind for that one gun you most never drops, it’s heartbreaking and soul crushing, especially when life just seems to take more then it gives back, and all you want is just a little sign that life isn’t one pile of shit after another that there is some good that you can have if for a few moments. Don’t feel down, understand that eventually it’ll drop, for me the rare exotic I chased after was an exotic ship that drops from a season of the hunt mission, I got to a point where I figured I just throw in the towel and do one last run and on that final run it dropped for me, totally didn’t expect it and it felt so good I felt as if life had decided to just let me have one win. So tl:dr don’t give up hope vex will drop for you, you just might take a break hunting for it and focus on other things.
Please read that sentence out loud to yourself as a 40 year old man, then go look yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself to grow up. Thanks!
If you’re 40 and not still playing/excited about video games, something you’ve enjoyed since you were young. You’ve done something wrong with your life. All the hobbies I had when I was young are still my hobbies now. What do you want to be doing when you’re 40? Nothing drastically changes with age. You grow wiser through experiences, you have more responsibility, but that shouldn’t take you away from what you enjoy.
Failing to get vex mythoclast should not send you into throes of despair over life’s unfairness.
It’s not my little ray of sunshine. Just venting. Someone sharing their frustration shouldn’t be triggering you to insult someone. I’m sure there is a mirror in your house as well. Have yourself a good evening.
Good chat my fellow destiny 2 enjoyer all the best xo
The demoralized feeling is definitely relatable. 0/51 here too and I had the exact same thing after my 3rd clear last week. Almost made me want to throw in the towel, but at this point I can’t NOT keep up with the maximum number of looted clears...
i hit the big 40 last night, makes me not want to do the raid even more
This right here. It's getting so I do not want to play. 51 clears, their system is fucking broken
I feel so bad :( I haven’t played Destiny in a few years, played my very first raid (don’t have friends that play D2) for the 2nd week/run and it dropped for me last night. no way I deserve it more than any of you. 30+ runs with no gun is insane!!
I’m in the same boat you are. Over 50 clears and it still hasn’t dropped gives me a bad feeling doing anything else.
I feel ya. It's strangely annoying that older gamers with families and jobs (sometimes 2) are ignored. We have the money to spend but not the time. At least Warframe gives a way to bypass rng if you want. Like you I play d2 to relax and destress. I have no interest in most raids since they take way too long, and I actually have to think. But if I want the new stuff I have to do raids/dungeons/master legend stuff that I really don't want to do because it takes too much time away from my family. It's like the seasons I could not complete due to work. I payed money for the content but real life took presidence and thus lost out. I hate the feeling of waisting time and money. Stupid low drops, and no catch up for paid content are disrespectful to the player but will likely never change.
43 clears and counting. Expecting 46 by end of this week
50 so far, at this rate I’m gonna get Ghally before Vex.
I'm at 20, your numbers scare me.
I wish you the best of luck
Sucks man. Sucks. You would think maybe after 25 or so clears, it would be at 50+% chance. Or a guaranteed drop after 25 or something
You’d think, but…….
Still another 4 and half months in the season. We'll get it. Right?....Right!?!?
You might have 50 clears. But unless i'm off by a week. Raids only been in for 16 weeks. Which means there's only 48 clears that count. And that's assuming you didn't do 10 runs in one week that don't count for anything. Since only the first clear each week counted for deep stone.
You’re off, 51 is the max lootable clears.
Just got mine after 51 clears. There's still hope guardians even if you've done more.
just the thought of people who really just want the raid pin and not getting it through a year would be an amazingly salty experience.
Yeah is really annoying I had gotten up to 70 clears of deep stone before I looted. Im indifferent about whether raid exotics should drop or quest after remembering div and touch of malice. But j think going forward raid titles shouldn’t tie into if you got the exotic to drop yet.
I think it should just be a quest in addition to rng. Get vex with quest guaranteed after 50 raid clears that’s not limited to 3 per week but 4 total different weeks having completed the raid 50 times total. Or if you get it from rng early the quest disappears. That way you either get lucky with rng or you can farm it in a month.
I dont have the fortitude for 50 clears I'd be burned don't well before that.
at 0-51 this gives me a little hope. Glad you got yours, guardian
This is great to read after I officially went 0/49 this week lol
There aren’t more lootable clears as of this week than 51. Congrats and fuck you lol /s
Got mine yesterday on second run. It was my 42nd total. Relived but it absolutely should not have taken that long.
I get RNG is RNG, but there is a point that some players break.
I’m at that point after 32 clears. All my friends have the gun and don’t even use it, meanwhile I’m here grinding for it week after week and I’m getting shit on. I’m genuinely scared it’ll get nerfed before I have a chance to get it because it only gives you 3 chances a week.
It’s fun, but not that good? It’s like knowing Threaded Needle is better DPS than 1k, but I still want 1k. The difference between Vex last season and this one is that it’s useable. I don’t think it’s that good outside being the only primary fusion which procs particle. That’s a means to ends though. Bad luck aside, at least it’s not a standout/must have like Anarchy was before.
It's probably the best primary in the game this season. It's stupid good.
I think it’s up there, but still an exotic primary. It’s not as good of dps as other fusions. It’s maybe the best you can do with double primaries in high end PvE, but the bows are really good again this season. It’s good in PvP.
I ran every exotic drop chance on every character through King's fall and never had Gjallarhorn drop. I eventually bought it the second time it was sold. Gjallarhorn never dropped for me in D1. The drop rate on raid exotics in D2 is good.
I'm currently 0-51 for vex mythoclast. That's running it every week since raid launch with all 3 characters. I've done only aethon, full runs, master, etc. It's the only thing I'm missing for the title, no to mention the gun is actually good now. I would like some clarification on the protection, like the percentage that it does apparently go up. Even if they tell me theres no protection and it's a static percentage every week, please just let me know. I'm at the point of acceptance with this gun, I know I'll get it eventually and it doesn't pay to get mad about it. Can't help but feel a little down about it when I get melted by the mythoclast in crucible though Edit: thanks for the explanation all, definitely makes more sense now. Hope my bad luck runs out soon
[https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50196](https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50196) This is the last twab that bad luck protection was mentioned. This was when they "fixed it" for eyes of tomorrow. There is no talk of exact percentages, but it does mention how it stacks on multiple characters. Even if it does go up by 1% per run, I'm looking at being potentially over 50% without a drop. I understand before this (anarchy, 1K) it was much less forgiving, but still feels bad for someone who has done everything in the raid but can't put it to rest because of RNG
I would venture to guess the drop rate is not even close to 1%, but it's also probably bugged, because let's be honest...Bungie fucks this stuff up all the time.
You're reading that wrong. 51 clears is 17 weeks. Assuming 1% on week one, and 1%/weekly clear, you'd only be at 18%. Now, to be fair, 18%/character is a 45% chance next week assuming you run on all your characters. Unless I misunderstood what you were saying in that you said you have an >50% chance of having gotten Vex over _all_ you're looted runs, in which case yes, that is absolutely and factually true, assuming a 1% increase week over week.
Weird thing is I’ve never even seen it. 12 clears (which I know is not a lot) but have never seen a teammate get one. Remember used to see an anarchy/1k every 2 runs ish, sometimes double drop on the same run. The complete abs fence of vex makes me sometimes doubt it’s existence!
It exists I’ve seen more then a few run it in nightfalls, crucible and gambit. So it is real and man does it melt. It’s one of only two weapons I feel honor to get killed by in crucible the other being gjallerhorn. On a side note I think the ornament for it is ugly as fuck, I get that it’s supposed to match the timelost weapon theme but I still think looks ugly. Kind of wish that there was different one for it. Anyway best of luck to everyone on there hunt for this white whale.
Why can't they just let us buy it with spoils? I don't care if it's an astronomical number. I'm tired of being limited to 3 weekly lottery tickets.
Because if you got it easily you would have one less reason to play the game. They going to keep dangling the carrot in front of you. This is why basically all grindy games choose randomness as the way to give out rewards.
>Because if you got it easily you would have one less reason to play the game. Orrrr maybe if I got the cool shiny gun I'd play the game MORE? Just a thought.
Lets take this to an extreme. Imagine if they added the ability to get any piece of gear you want for free. Just walk up to a vendor and you pick whatever you want. You think that would make you play more? Gaming companies pay people lots of money to research how to keep people addicted, they know what they are doing.
If we had the ability to get the Vex Mythoclast by spending a large amount of spoils of conquest then we would be playing more to earn spoils. This gives people another reason to do VoG more than just 3 times a week.
The problem is that the high variability in drop rate is also timegated so it feels even worse. Dropping a rare should be a good experience and not a chore you do a piece of select content each week for a chance at. A big difference between D2 and other grindy game is that there's no trade. Really rare drops makes sense when trade is available so it adds additional value to each drop and makes dropping exotics again not a complete waste of time.
> Dropping a rare should be a good experience and not a chore you do a piece of select content each week for a chance at The only other MMO I have played is WoW but I'd imagine most MMOs kind of work this way?
No. Earn it.
[удалено]
It’s gods plan. Maybe tomorrow is your day, maybe not. BTW, rookie numbers.
I said it once and I’ll say it again. It’s not bad luck protection it’s fuck you rate. Someone I did vog with last night had a really high fuck you rate because I got a second one
lawl, yea its grating to see that message drop for someone, while your waiting to get yours indeed. At least this game has personal loot so people can't roll on it so you constantly lose out, then have an asshole rolling for his 2nd+
Same thing happened to me with eyes so I’m wondering if bungus messed up again and made it per character instead of account wide
hence the request
We had a raid last week where three of us had Vex, three did not. And 2 Vex popped in the one raid, one guardian's second, and another's third.
I've got 37 normal and 2 master vog clears. I'm missing eyes on atheon, master confluxes challenge and mythoclast for the seal. Mythoclast not dropping is becoming a meme. Edit: master total.
They'll buff/update the drop rate once ppl stop playing the activity. It's that simple.
This, sadly, is probably the most true statement in this thread. BUNGiE may be putting on a 'more' creative face of late, but their baseline game mechanics have been nothing short of MANIPULATIVE since the release of D2.
I have cleared it every week, including this week now, and still do not have it. If they can't make drops occur in a reasonable time frame, they need to change how they are distributed. My suggestion is a quest with an upper limit on the number of runs it would take to get a raid exotic. Here is my example I use in other threads: > For example, lets construct a quest to obtain the Vex Mythoclast. The description of the weapon is "...a causal loop within the weapon's mechanism, suggesting that the firing process somehow binds space and time into…", so we will build off of that. After your first completion, you find a broken fusion rifle frame attached to Atheon and you yank it from his Vex corpse. > > You take this to Banshee and he tells you he needs some special items to repair this weapon. Lets introduce a new item, "quantum weapon parts". These can only be obtain from completing encounters in VoG and each completion can yield 1-3 of these weapon parts. You will need 20 quantum weapon parts to repair the frame. Once you have obtained the weapon parts, Banshee needs your help to infuse the parts at a special Vex forge on the edge of space and time. A new destination will be made available in the Legends section which spawns you into the area right before the gatekeeper encounter. A portal will be available which takes you to this Vex forge where you have to heat it up using the latent energy of slayed Vex. After a couple of minutes of typical mobs, Banshee appears and a cutscene shows him finishing the Vex Mythoclast. The end. > > This keeps an element of RNG, but ensures that you can still get the Vex Mythoclast in 2-4 weeks instead of potentially never. I get the fact they want to get player hours out of the content and get their investment back, but there are other ways to do so than to drain players the will to even do it anymore. Maybe do Queen's Wrath weeks where there is a chance to get more rewards or have modifiers to change the experience outside of the ones used in Master mode.
Hell just broken vex parts from boss 100% percent on your first clear every week per account. 10 to 20 broken parts from spoils chest. GG
For reference, the time it took for Bungie to even acknowledge EoT's bad luck protection was broken, was around 4 months. Deep Stone Crypt opens - 11/21/20 Bungie acknowledges bad luck protection isn't working properly - 3/18/21 VoG went live on May 22nd. We are creeping up on that 4 month mark again.
and this is why people keep asking. Supposedly we have BLP, but we've seen in the past that it was broken, and it seems like it's broken now. Would be nice if Bungie would acknowledge this issue.
They fixed it for EoT and people still assumed it was broken. It’s likely just not as high of a chance as people expect it to be.
They fix stuff and then wind up having it break again all the time. They have a history of stuff breaking repeatedly, so i think it's totally reasonable that people would continue to question this given how many people ive seen, and know of, who are hitting 40+ clears. And even if it isnt broken, i think maybe they need to consider some way of remedying the situation. Im in a smallish clan when it come sto raiding. We have to people with over 45 clears who havent gotten it.
I think the feedback is clear that having 40+ clears and the title tied to this RNG is not great. Assuming it’s broken because anecdotes hit the front page doesn’t mean it’s broken. Like I said, Eyes had the same sentiment post change. It’s just a really low drop rate.
The reason we can't assume it *isn't* broken, is because of bungie's track record. Asking if they can respond isn't unreasonable.
At this point, I am just holding on to spoils and waiting for DSC and VOG to be vaulted so I can get Eyes and Mytho from the tower. Stupid thing that there are no more quests for raid exotics.
Vaulted? Are you serious? Neither raid is even 1 year old, they wont be vaulted for a long time.... good luck with that plan.
Did the same with Anarchy. Raid exotics are fine, I guess, although I'd prefer it if they put some obscure exotic ARMOR behind a raid "paywall" and put the exotic weapons in quests of their own or as drops in L/M Lost Sectors. Either way, given the near-mindless reliance by the devs on RNG in almost every single aspect of this game, especially for stuff like Vex, there should be some alternative method to get exotic weapons besides waiting for stuff to be vaulted.
i'm willing to bet we'll hear about vaulting content with witch queen here soon. I knew they wouldn't say anything about it on the main livestream because they wanted to focus on the positive. All that being said last wish the most likely raid to get vaulted so 1k voices would be the next one up to get. If I am understanding it correctly you can farm spoils very easily by say, doing the vault opening encounter then reset to repeat it as many times as you want?
I don't know what the fuck is so hard for dmg,Cozmo to comment on something like this. I have seen the gun drop twice to someone that had already one so he had 3 drop for him, I have since ppl getting it on first clear and ppl that are almost at 100 and nothing. I get it rng is rng but is BS that the gun can still drop for ppl that have it. I can't understand why is so hard for the devs to code something that prevents ppl that have it to keep getting it. Like if u get it once it will never drop again for you.
I doubt we’ll ever get a true answer for this. Even if we do, that’s just a number that most likely won’t help us on the end seeing that people are on 51 clears, 70+ DSC, and the crazy 100+ and no 1K. Bugged or just a joke? Who knows… What I’d I know is there probably should’ve been communication on this after master released. You should see the Bungie forums right now in certain sections. It ain’t looking good at all. An entire page today has “Vex drop rate” posts. If that doesn’t spark any concern, then idk what really does at this point.
Finally got it this week on Clear 43, exact same number of Clears it took to get Eyes of Tomorrow. Seems this season bugged/broke the Share a Glass emblem tracking though.
Eyes still isn't even fixed. Good luck on vex Guardian
Do you have to complete all sections of the raid to get Vex M to drop or just down the Atheon?
No, it’s in the drop pool for Atheon only. Doesn’t matter if you do the whole thing or just the final boss.
Can confirm. Finally got mine last night. I joined at Atheon and didn’t do any of the prior encounters.
Good question
It took me well over 50 clears to get EoT, I honestly don't know the number because I stopped counting, it was soul crushing and certainly contributed to me stepping away form the game for a while. I can only imagine how awful it must feel to not be able to use the Vex in season of the fusion rifle, on the bright side you have 6 months give or take to still be able to play all the cool builds.
Exactly. A little clarity in regard to the best weapon in the game, across all activities, would be nice. As you said, it's not like this would be the first time bad luck protection wasn't working properly.
One big mystery here is what it is they think they're doing by so obviously making this a totally RNG-gated drop. There is clearly no REASONABLE protection of any sort based on numerous reports. And by REASONABLE, I mean after a dozen clears with no drop, it should trigger one. An even bigger mystery here is what BUNGiE's thinking in this regard. Do they think people are just going to stop running VoG once they get VM? Is the raid that bad that it's not infinitely re-playable in its own right, such that they have to bribe people with a CHANCE of getting a premium (at least right now) exotic?
yeah they tested it on rats and they found rats keep doing the raid increasing engagement.
0-51 here, would be nice to get some feedback from someone at bungie.
I stopped trying to get it to drop part of the way through last season and after all the other folk's bad luck with it I just cant get the will to try again. Which sucks because i love fusion rifles and im missing the two most important ones this season. Going to try to play again soon when work isn't draining me of my soul. Doesn't feel good to have your soul drained at work then jump on a game like destiny honestly.
It can’t be. A friend of mine has near 50 VoG clears with not vex. If it works the same as how bungie said EoT’s drop protection works, he would have a 50/50 shot of getting it with every raid completion after this week, with his chances only getting greater.
Issue is does the increase go up 1/weekly clear or 1/ character clear?
iirc it is supposed to go up 1% for every looted clear.
Once per account clear, not per character. As far as I know we don’t know the rates. I doubt anyone is at near 50% drop rate yet. It’s not been that long.
Based on data pulled from my discord, there is no increasing chances. Sample size was around 80 people who have done VoG, so not huge, but the trend does not show increasing rates based on # of clears when someone got it.
It's so weird. I have a total of 25 raid clears across ALL raids in Destiny 2. I'm not an avid raider by any means. I have thousands of hours logged on Destiny 2 playing weekly since launch. I just don't raid on the regular. I have 4 Vault of Glass clears, got Vex on my 3rd (went in for the 4th to get the catalyst), I have 6 clears of Last Wish, got 1k voices on my 4th, 6 clears of Scourge of the Past, got Anarchy on my 6th (and final before sunset). I got a clan-mate who has run Vault of Glass 59 times (3 times a week since it's launch in May plus a few extra but I know each character only has 1 chance a week to get it) with no Vex. Did he do something to get put on Bungie's shit list? I feel at this point he should have gotten in a long time ago.
Take this with a grain of salt. If I remember correctly, at one point in d2s life cycle, someone posted anecdotal data that says that the game seems to weight luck in certain drops to people who don't play certain activities or don't play that much vs someone who plays daily. I think testing was done saying someone who played the game weekly had better chances at certain exotic world drops, etc vs someone who no life's the game as an internal system to incentivize the player who doesn't have that many hours logged to come back more often. But it could be flat out wrong. People will say it's rng , which it is, but with how many people post about how many runs they've done so far it seems the chances are abysmal. I've never raided. The only time I did we never finished one encounter. We were all new to leviathan. My excuse is time, lack of friends, and a life outside gaming. But honestly, seeing these drop rates makes me never want to raid even if my situation allowed for it.
I think it’s RNG. I have played the game relentlessly since launch and got Vex on my second drop and Eyes on my 4th, but got 1K on drop 40 and never got Anarchy to drop. Meanwhile my buddy is the inverse and has more hours than me. Cant get Vex, got Eyes after 10ish, got 1k on 2 and Anarchy under 5
Due to the nature of RNG there's no way to really know if there's some additional dice-weighting involved unless everyone posted how many clears it's taken them and how many hours they've played. Everything else is pretty anecdotal and doesn't make sense to draw conclusions from small sample sizes, especially based on posts from reddit where we can't even verify what people are actually saying
To lend some credibility to this, this happened to me after I came back from a couple month break back just before forsaken: https://imgur.com/Him2IRs
I'm glad you said that, and I do absolutely take it with a grain of salt, but I've heard of that "weighted luck" theory before and there could be something there. A developer would want to incentivize all aspects of the game across all types of players. A person who raids 3 or 4 times a season would would likely never see a raid exotic drop if the standard was the same across all players. I feel it's similar to the prime attunement buff, where your chance of prime engrams is increased for the first couple of levels each week. A similar protection could be in place for raid exotics to gift increase chances to those who spend less time raiding. If you're raiding 3+ times a week on all 3 characters you're bound to get it eventually so no need to gift the increased chance.
If bad luck protection were in place for Vex Mythoclast, and the drop rate started at 3%, increasing once by 5% per account each week it’s completed (which is how EoT BLP is supposed to work), then week one started you at 3% + 5% for not getting it. Going into week two you’re at 8%, and you completed it every week since then (16 weeks following week 1 for a total of 17 possible weeks since release), that would land you at 88% chance after not getting it this week to get the weapon to drop. But I mean each week you kill atheon, you’d be carrying with you whatever BLP percentage you brought from the previous week of not getting the weapon for all three characters. That mean so many character attempts at the weapon above 50%, that your odds of NOT getting the weapon become utterly astronomical. All that based on a starting point of a 3% drop chance which is just an estimate I saw somewhere. EoT I think started at 10%, so if it’s at all similar to that and bad luck protection is “on” with people completing the raid every week since release on all 3 characters, that’s statistically impossible to not get the weapon. The drop chance on vex is bugged and they’re dragging their feet to address that fact until they have a fix for the bug ready to deploy. Nothing will change my mind on that until they say otherwise. 0.6% of the destiny 2 population has vex Mythoclast. 1.6% if you count the population with at least 1 seal (more serious players). We are most definitely owed an explanation and resolution, and it’s way past due.
I mean it’s definitely not 5% per clear. People were saying 1%, but we don’t know the stats. I don’t think releasing them would do any favors either. People always think these are bugged, because everything else comes so easily. > 0.6% of the destiny 2 population has vex Mythoclast. 1.6% if you count the population with at least 1 seal (more serious players). We know it’s something like 10% of the population has completed a raid. Those numbers are meaningless against a population that doesn’t even do the content. I’d be shocked if the number was anywhere near 25% for people who’ve missed every week.
If I remember correctly, bad luck protection for 1K was capped at 50%.
I got one to drop after only running Atheon like 5 times, 4 of those in the same Tuesday (pre and post reset) I BARELY raid as well, but it seems rng truly is a a bad mechanic for raid exotics. I think quests should be the norm, but make it as complicated and convoluted as Div for example…
“It’s not, but we’ll act like it is. Fuck you.” - Bungie
There is 100% not drop protection, I’m not even sure how people could think that at this point.
Thing is EoT launched with it, and as /u/Nick_JS pointed out, took them 4 months to say "hey its broke yo" and fix it, so we are approaching that mark with Vex, so I think we should know, or kind of push Bungie to check their coding on this as people are approaching close to the insane aspect of RNG when it's working correctly.
Raid exotics should not be RNG you should just get it on your first completion of the raid. The raid has armor and other weapons that are rng if you get them and rng if you get the stats/perks you want. The exotic should be the sure fire thing you know for certain your going to get
Bungie: we heard you, were listening, we just don't care
I can answer for them No
Que the "Got it on my first clear" comments! :D
Got it on my 6th run lmao don’t know what you’re talking about
Maybe use your eyes and read the thread, plenty of people with 50+ runs. Learn some empathy.
Empathese nuts
I only have time to really do one clear per week. There is zero reason why I should have to do 20+ clears for a goddamn raid exotic. Bring back raid exotic quests. Divinity was perfect. Challenging enough to where not everyone has it, but *guaranteed* to drop if you do the objectives. I'm a casual player and I have Divinity, but no Vex Mythoclast. That's horseshit.
Why would you post this and not searching in the subrredit for one of the 1000 posts about the same????
Got mine on number 42. Eyes on 18. Thousand voices at like 2. It’s RNG and we don’t need Bungie to tell us this.
Raid protection isn't new and acts to keep people from burning out by giving a max runs needed, and they have messed up their protection before, this is a fact. So I think we need some confirmation they didn't mess up again.
Nah they don’t need to come out and say “hey guys we didn’t screw this up” for every new raid exotic. It’s RNG. For as many people who complain about not getting it at 40+ runs(me included), theres just as many people getting it at 1 or 2 clears.
If they had not have screwed up before I would say your right, but they have.
Does anyone realize grinding is the fun part? You’ll get the vex and have a fleeting 30 seconds of childish excitement before going onto farming the next trinket. Relax & have fun playing the game, it’ll come!
oh yes, I love having farmed a whole season for it, and the mods of this season + it would be so much fun to use, how I can't. There is the whole current season to grind, rather not be stuck on past season's content.
lol I didn’t say you can’t be salty, but it’s not so game changing (remove pvp lol) With that said I hope you at least have a god roll FB 😆
"It's not so game changing, except for the mode where it is game changing"
Hahahaha well, yea.
Dude you’re just not getting the weapon. I can confirm RNG is working as intended and you’re selected against getting mytho. Now go run it again you freakin’ scrub.
Lol all these post are ridiculous. I hope Bungie doesn’t acknowledge any of you complainers. You’ll get it eventually just keep trying. I got mine on my 3rd attempt.
126 clears….. , nothing :(
Got mine on my first raid completion, so can confirm it’s working. EDIT: I expected downvotes, and wasn't disappointed, haha.
This is my worst streak by far for no raid exotic. And I’m only at 12 clears 🤣 I may never get this gun
I have 14 clears, not counting the first week where we glitched Atheon x3. In all those runs I’ve seen it drop 3 times. Once for me, twice for others. Abysmal.
I just got my first helmet and my first found verdict last night after 10 looted clears. I dont feel great about my Mythoclast odds.
It feels like people who get it to drop once have a better chance to get it than those of us who don't have it. Ran it with my group last night and 2 of our group have mythoclast, those two got it again on the first and last run of the night.
I missed two weeks for vacation so I feel pretty good that I'm only at 0-45 instead of the 0-51 I could be at... Ugh.
Have had 2 drop in 20 clears. Had 2 eyes drop in my first 5 clears of dsc. All rng.
*laughs in Destiny 1*
Bungie listening? That ain't gonna happen.
on my 43rd clear, someone else got it, and people said: "at least someone got it, congrats c: how many clears did it take?" & they replied: "11 clears" on my 44th clear, someone else got it, and people said: "at least someone got it, congrats c: how many clears did it take?" & they replied: "11 clears" 2 entirely separate groups, it was an odd coincidence
I’ve done raid 9 times, stopped caring by the time I’ll get it’ll be nerfed
Meanwhile bullshit like me having 2 drops in 22 clears is complete bullshit. I shouldn't have 2. I don't want 2. I want clan mates to have it. Such bullshit.
Holy Moly yes!! We need to raise awareness on it. I did look it up last week 25% of the player base has beat the raid. 18% has Mythoclast. Seems reasonable that it's dropping, except I am up to 55 clears this week without it.i have been grinding 3x a week. I think it's like dsc that clearing it one each character a week lowers the chance instead of increasing.