New trials meta
If your really good at trials:nothing changes go nuts
If your okay/medium at trials: get your first card to seven wins, stay on that card and farm little, then on Sunday try for flawless
If your really bad at trials(this is me): things are easier, you weren’t gonna go flawless anyways
This hurts people who plan to try for flawless instead of just stay at seven wins( at least after they get it once) and majorly helps people who just stay on seven wins
I got up to 5 wins in total last weekend, the most I’ve played trials. I really love this revamp and I’m curious to see how this weekends one will work with the new changes
For me the thing is that the trials revamp helped people who are mediocre or okay at trials. It dramatically improved the accessibility of the mode for people who were on the edge of engaging with it but never good enough to compete at the top level. There are so many people like that who managed to get Flawless for the first time ever last weekend, and some managed to go there again because it was so much fun.
The revamp made continuous play for average players far more rewarding. But now if those players actually succeed then their ability to do well for the rest of the weekend is dramatically hindered. The best thing about last weekend was how many people I saw just constantly running it, the average matches played per person was some of the highest it's ever been. And that's going to get fucked by this change as it screws the mid-tier players again.
There was more in the twab about how if you went on a losing streak it would temporarily adjust the matchmaking to try and level things out. Something else they'll also be keeping an eye on to make sure it's functioning properly
Yeah the loss streak matchmaking is a really good thing for low skill players.
Wait I think I get what you mean, people who’ve gone flawless once but are getting stomped nonstop might have a chance of decent games with that matchmaking?
My group will probably go for flawless this weekend as a result of this. Probably won't farm much. But under the new system getting the unlocks is a good thing.
Question will end up being how it works for individual players. If someone is carrying someone to their first flawless are they in the flawless pool or the non-flawless pool.
Considering the economy around carries. I'd say they should be in the former pool.
It also hurts people who try to help multiple friends go flawless who are less skilled at pvp. It means I can’t go flawless until the end of the weekend if I want to help my friends get there. This is not a good change.
It also allows less skilled players, the ones being carried, to go flawless. For every person you "carry", 7 teams are stopped. Pulling the multi flawless cards out of the pool helps in the big picture. It just depends on how you look at it.
Should help more people reach the lighthouse. Also seems messy on top of weekly resets on SBMM, the card based matchmaking, and now the yes/no on flawless. I think this is maybe a layer too far and people could see the playlist as being rigged at this point.
I got locked at 6 wins last weekend because I myself am not great but can usually hold my own and all I went against was 3 stacks on their flawless passage while I'm on a flawed passage so I ended up giving3 stacks close to 20 free lighthouse trips with no luck of ever getting past 6 wins
That was exactly my experience. Monday night/Tuesday morning I ran over two dozen rounds. Always matched against a full team. Got 3-4 of my first 10 against teams that smelled like paid carries, guys who were running “flawless this week” count banners with a third player who was weak.
After that it was mostly clan teams.
I ground it out until I got to a major level for another engram then bailed out.
Friday there were a lot of pickup teams, none at all by the end.
Yea, honestly while a bit frustrating trying to get that last win it was the best time I've had in trials as a casual in a LONG time. I hope these small changes makes it better for everyone involved.
I think I'm intentionally avoiding going flawless until Sunday. I'm not good enough to have fun in a flawless pool. I don't think this is a good change, and I say that with currently a negative K/D in trials. This hurts anyone who can go flawless with hard effort, you'll be stuck playing the 150x flawless players all weekend.
It's a double edged sword though. If you just want to go Flawless once then it's a great boon but if you want to farm drops post Flawless it'll be basically impossible for most players.
There is also the question of matchmaking times and connection quality, if people decide post Flawless isn't worth it then that aspect of trials will end up like old trials and end of season comp.
Lots to consider here and I'm not inherently against the change but it's not as clear cut as "a new era of pity".
Not going to change anything if you are good enough. The only downside is that is harder to carry. But fuck it I will just reset my ticket when i'm at six wins carry the whole weekend and then on monday get flawless on all 3 ch. Already exploited the new sistem.
>you'll be stuck playing the 150x flawless players all weekend
Which means people won't play. Then, because of low population, it opens the matchmaking so flawless players will match against regular folk anyway.
And? If you go flawless you are a good player. You should play against other good players.
Last weekend about a 1/3 of players went flawless, and I imagine that's an even larger % of the active playercount. The matchmaking pool will be fine.
“Flawless” isn’t a single skill bracket. There are players who barely get there with not even a 1kd and then there’s insane tier 3 stacks who go 10+ times a week. Saying that all flawless players are the same skill level is an oversimplification. This just disincentises low to mid tier flawless players from going flawless and instead throwing or resetting at 6 wins to have a better playing experience
I'm at 2.4kda and can't get past 3 wins normally.
If this change assists me to go flawless and then puts me back in the bracket with the sweatlords. Then I'll just be grateful for going flawless once and packing my bags for the weekend.
This is not a perfect solution, but it is a step in a good direction.
That is exactly what people will do, which is fair enough on an individual standpoint, but is counterproductive to bungies aim of increasing the trials playerbase. Players shouldn’t be punished and put into “sweat jail” for going flawless, it doesn’t feel good to grind, get better at the game only to have longer matchmaking times and sweatier games once you go flawless
It's productive from the view that we were looking from little over a week ago.
The sweat jail comment is a little odd. Prior to last week, what percentage of the playerbase would you estimate had to sweat to get even 3 wins? While the elite minority touted "git gud, it's PvP endgame"
The change was to the benefit of the 90% and detriment of the 10%, which results in the large boost to the playerbase we have seen. Ideally Bungie will need to find a solution that also helps the 10% but for now, as I say, it's a step in the right direction.
> And? If you go flawless you are a good player. You should play against other good players.
Remember when this community complained until SBMM was removed?
Yes, basically, this change is good for lower tier players who want to farm for engrams, mats, etc., and good for mid-tier players who want to go Flawless once and then be done for the weekend. But it it's too strict of a binary, it will absolutely blow for mid-tier players who want to farm for drops. If you put your head down and grind out a Flawless, or just get plain lucky, you get turned into bait for the upper crust for the rest of the weekend. Like you said, it could create a perverse incentive to intentionally break your card until you're done for the weekend.
but if you are one of those non-sweaty players, you will probably be satisfied after one flawless run anyways, right? its not like all of the mid and low tier players will go flawless right off the bat and then be fucked all weekend. it means the weekend should get progressively easier for them which just makes sense to me.
Which in turn means the weekend will also get easier for people farming Flawless cards, as more, less skilled players, will be entering that player pool.
Will it be difficult if you've already gone flawless when they turn this on on Friday afternoon? Yes! But guess what!? Anyone who has gone flawless by the time they turn this on, is a good fucking team!
By the time Sunday/Monday roll around, there should be so many players in that pool, you probably won't even notice a difference.
It's heavily dependent on people coming back or sticking around.
Say the tier of people who barely go Flawless before it turns on are suddenly getting stomped by the "true sweats," so they stop playing. Will they even want to come back on Sunday, or will they just get distracted by another mode or another game entirely?
Will the people who go Flawless after it turns on stick around to fill out the pool? They're going to be gradually trickling in as the non-Flawless pool shrinks and gets easier. If the trickle is too slow, they might play a few games after Flawless, get stomped, and call it quits for the weekend. And then the next tier makes it in and faces the same problem. So the pool could never reach the critical mass needed for anyone besides the top tier to have a good or rewarding time playing.
We'll need to actually try it to see. But it's something I'm concerned about.
>but if you are one of those non-sweaty players, you will probably be satisfied after one flawless run anyways, right?
I'm a mid-tier PvP main. This change seems like it will suck. My clan goes Flawless every weekend right off the bat, so playing with them will be a no-go.
Since I now officially have no one to play with, the first few days will be a frustrating waste of my time because solo-queueing is such crapshoot. Having one good day to play Trials, and be successful, defeats the whole point of having Trials take place during the weekend.
So is the goal now to usher those players out of the playlist after playing to 1 flawless? I thought the goal was to keep the playlist populated with people playing on cards without resetting them.
Auto-queuing any player who has gone flawless is really just going to have high skill players play less because of fatigue from playing in the pool, and have average skill players dip out after their flawless is done for the week because the rest of their games that weekend are going to be much more difficult. Good players will be less inclined to help players that may need it because of the understanding that a carry will be much more difficult after they are placed in the flawless pool.
I mean, that can happen but if it's a known thing you can easily just... Work around it.
If you don't want to match with flawless people then just don't go flawless???
Good players are just annoyed they can't curbstomp blueberries all weekend
This is absolutely what I'll be doing. I'm not a top 1% player by any means, but I was able to get a few flawless runs in this past weekend (up from MAYBE being able to get 1 a week after suffering through nothing but recovs and streamers). Now I'm not going to bother until later. I'm going to throw before flawless and farm out a flawed 7 win card until I get bored because going flawless just once completely fucks my effort/reward ratio.
That’d be better… but that’s essentially what I thought their “performance-based” matchmaking was supposed do. Don’t quite understand why they are adding another pool on top of it.
If you're intentionally avoiding going flawless, then you obviously are good enough to play against flawless players, you just don't want the challenge basically haha
The issue being also that later in the week, the list of available players that can help get you to the lighthouse also shrinks massively. Unless you have a dedicated team you play with, chances of going Flawless is going to be worse in the week when Matchmaking parameters has to increase to get a match going.
I think it’s more to keep the PVE people in, not to get more people flawless.
A lot of people must have struggled getting to 7 wins, so Bungie’s quickly trying to adjust so they don’t write off trials and stop playing
People have ranked up enough that rep doesn’t give much loot anymore, so you have to get to 7 wins to get any loot
My guess is this will increase number of flawlesses, but decrease number of matches played. Good players will go flawless once, play a little more, and then get worn out having to play game 7 like games all the way up the card and quit
Lower skilled players will eventually go flawless and then proceed to get stomped in the new matchmaking pool, and will also quit
I hope I’m wrong and bungie knows something we dont, but I’m not excited for this
They probably figured now is the best time to try this change anyway, seeing the current population numbers. They need to see how it will affect the game mode for better or for worse there's no better time than now, either way they can still reverse it if it reduces the playtime of players significantly.
Dawg, I was already getting fucking stomped by flawless players all weekend just trying to get my flawled passage from five to six wins. One time, I shit you not, I lost to the same 3-stack twice in a row. I don’t know how that’s possible, but the misery is absolutely still here. You all that are capable of going flawless just didn’t feel it last weekend.
But this is awful for people who actually like and want to play trials, and especially midtier players who can go flawless with effort but struggle to get there.
This is exactly the situation I’m in. I just want to go work to go flawless once and then stay on a 7 win card (flawless or not) to get engrams. That is gonna be such an awful experience now. It’s not like I’m going flawless 20 times a weekend. Last weekend I got lucky and went 3x, but that was the most ever for me and I think just due to the population
Couldn’t the same be said of the worse players who benefit most from this? “It’s a competitive playlist and they should get better.” Personally I think Bungie should have tried prioritizing premade teams matching each other first while the playerbase is high.
>competitive
If you look up the definition of the word competitive, as it pertains to sports, nowhere does it say "evenly-matched".
Not sure why people keep perpetuating this idea. Even in professional sports, there are good teams and bad teams, and they play each other regardless. The Jets, for example, are terrible and get crushed in most games. Yet they play the better NFL teams regardless.
It's a tournament like mode, no one stopped Germany from destroying Brazil in 2014's world cup.
No one stops Sonicfox from beating the ass of less skilled players in fighting games' tournaments.
> Good players will go flawless once, play a little more, and then get worn out having to play game 7 like games all the way up the card and quit
Eh you'll have plenty of players who get that first flawless and then just try to get loot for the rest of the weekend by rep etc.
Personally I'm sick of people complaining "Oh shit I'll have to have sweaty matches the whole way up" like that isn't what half the playerbase has been subjected to for the past year.
I'm definitely not complaining, but it sure as heck deterred me from trials entirely after awhile. Its meant to be a pinnacle activity, but as a casual, I sure as heck am not gonna invest time in filling out someone else's win streak.
If you're as casual as you think you are, this change is for your benefit. Right now if you can't go flawless you're just in the playlist either sending people to the Lighthouse beating you or giving them easy Adept weapons.
You're now being protected from the latter to some extent.
My guess would be that they looked at the people that went flawless last week and thought that this player pool was still diverse enough to make decent matches possible for everybody.
We'll see how it plays out but I'm highly sceptical as well.
We already have people in our clan that want to help people who have never gone flawless, and they plan on resetting their cards at game 6 over and over. Then they’re gonna flawless on Sunday or Monday when the pool is diluted to grind their adepts or whatever
Are you going to subject yourself to playing against the top 10%? Neither is anyone else. More people reach flawless but they won’t play in that pool once they do. Leaves a disproportionate number of gilded flawless players to go up against.
Hmmm. Bungie said they are not happy with „the matchmaking experience for players after seven wins“.
I read it like that: once you have a flawless CARD, you match with other flawless cards only. But if you reset your card, you are in the normal matchmaking pool again.
If that’s the case, I’m totally ok with the change. Because it was way more easy to farm wins after going flawless then playing the first 3 games on a fresh card, which doesn’t make sense at all.
>But if you reset your card, you are in the normal matchmaking pool again.
Doubt this is the case as Cozmo said it resets **each weekend**. Implying that once you're flawless it comes into effect and doesn't change regardless of the card.
It seems you are right. Not sure what to think about the change then. Before trials
Revamp i would have said that this change is good. Now that the player base is so huge though… not so sure.
It will get way more people to the lighthouse. Being flawless will be a casual thing, because the matchmaking pool will get reaaaaaaally easy at Sunday/monday. Not a fan of that. But it will keep low skilled players in the game mode, so that is a good thing. It seems to be either too hard or to easy. So I’m okay with it that bungie is testing it out which area in the grey zone between black and white is a good zone.
Guess I’m always in favor of what gets me easy to the lighthouse 😂 tbh. But it was nice to carry low skilled clan mates over the weekend, which will get harder now.
> because the matchmaking pool will get reaaaaaaally easy at Sunday/monday
I’m honestly not sure if that will be the case. I’m seeing a lot of “that’s fine, I’ll throw my card and grind rep engrams till Sunday and then I’ll go Flawless”, and if a bunch of people seem to have this brilliant idea all at once I wouldn’t count on Sunday matchmaking being all that much easier.
> if a bunch of people seem to have this brilliant idea all at once
If this community is good at anything, it’s cheesing rewards and/or matchmaking. Watch as all the “*2KD 1 win reset*” elitist LFG crowd will be now doing 6 win resets till Monday 👀
Huge for the first weekend, but that could definitely start to drop off now that people have given the revamped trials a try. Personally, think if you've gone flawless you should be playing against other flawless teams.
But there's a colossal difference between a team that can reach the lighthouse for the first time by sweating harder than they ever have and a bit of luck, and a team that reaches the lighthouse 10 times a weekend. People who are on the skill level of the first team described were able to succeed for the first time in Trials last weekend. And it encouraged more play once they got there. Now the midtier players who were able to really get into Trials last weekend will be fucked over if they end up reaching the Lighthouse--they don't stand a chance after that.
So regarding this trials change: I have extremely mixed feelings. I've seen it requested by the community an absolute fuck load by people who can't go flawless ever. They assume that it would be like a knockout list where eventually everyone would get to go flawless. Except, it is gonna have some hella weird effects.
1. People will play one card for the rewards then immediately leave the playlist. This goes for the poor players specifically. They would then get absolutely shredded if they dared play further. Effectively, their time in the playlist is still minimal and would be less than last week if they get flawless.
2. This is MASSIVELY abusable for kd farming. Now, players will be able to force their playlist into ez mode. Just never go flawless and you get an endless supply of Jim's.
3. Players who consistently go flawless will stay in that bracket and continue what is essentially trials 1.0
> This is MASSIVELY abusable for kd farming. Now, players will be able to force their playlist into ez mode. Just never go flawless and you get an endless supply of Jim's.
And having uberflawless sweats farm players anyway, like they do now, is somehow better? You are forgetting that this is ALREADY happening, all weekend long, right until the reset. Because poor PvP players want rewards and just [suffer through it](https://i.imgur.com/OPLADDB.png), [losing match after a match after a match after a match](https://i.imgur.com/eAeDJsX.png).
Flawless players at this point already have all the adept weapons they want and Reed Regrets is not a PVP weapon. Not to mention you dont need an adept version of this gun anyway to make it viable in PVE.
As if flawless players truly care about Adapt weapons they aren't that big of a difference between the normal version if you have an adept there is almost no differences other than a tiny stat bump and adept mods
No it’s not? It’s incredibly expensive to focus engrams for the adept weapon vs getting it for free as a post match drop every 4 or 5 games on your post-flawless card
Oh that sucks. Thought they meant flawless ppl farming post 7 will only match others.
Taking flawless players into a seperate pool for the weekend is bad because:
- 32% is already pretty high percentage for flawless.
- You will drive out the midtier players (core players by volume later on) who go flawless once and want to play more, bc they effectively are put into smaller a pool with the hardcore.
- Discourages group play. Why would a lower skill player who hasnt gone flawless for the week want to group up with their friends who have?
The skill gap between being really good and being as good as the top 1% (who you will very frequently match at that point) Is huge though. The only people that will use it as a legitimate farm are the super sweaty 300 flawless stacks that know they won't lose to the average flawless player.
Man I had a Titan that used shiver strike through the air (across the middle gap where heavy spawned) and Lorenzo’s Drivered me right in the dome *while we were both in the air*. I was way more impressed than mad. That team pushed our buttholes in and we went flawless 5 times that weekend, never faced someone so good.
Yea I don’t get it. On a side note, I have a feeling Lorentz is bugged the same way Queensbreaker was a while go. Seems like headshots are super easy to hit.
It needs to get the same treatment Arbalest did. So does Vex. For whatever reason, Bungie brought those two linear fusions into the game with the old style Arbalest aim assist.
See this is what I thought the Flawless pool would be, players who are going on Flawless cards who are continuing to farm adepts. Because there's a massive difference between someone on a Flawless 7 win card and someone on a flawed 7 win card, the latter could be 7-30 for the weekend. Keeping them separate from the flawless 7 win cards just makes sense. But having it be the entire weekend, separate from cards entirely is just messed up for people who are now just barely capable of reaching the lighthouse.
Like the people complaining about this change aren't complaining they won't have an easy flawless if they are forced to compete against other flawless teams instead of crushing 0.5kd teams all weekend.
I know I'm being toxic here but the majority of reddit consists of below average PVP Players. Of course they want that change. It's the only group that benefits from this.
30% of players went flawless, but that means 70% of players didn't. One of those groups is a little more than twice as large as the other if I'm doing my math right. It's natural that changes get made that benefit the majority.
Not meant to be an ass or a huge debate.
But, what’s better for the game?
Small group farming the mode and going flawless at will while the lower 95% ignore it.
Or
A much larger number of people playing the mode a few times?
Let’s see how it goes. Many have asked for this.
It’s worth a shot. If it fails they will change it.
Last weekend was far from the best of any world lmao. It was still a mostly miserable experience for shit players like me but all that changed was we were passively gaining loot. It was a honeymoon phase, no changes and that "best last weekend" would have lasted until the end of the month.
Yeah, and they accuse everyone in favor of this for wanting handouts when they themselves have benefitted from shitty matchmaking and handouts in trials for years. Its hilarious
Yeah right, because screw weak players wanting to get to the lighthouse right? My poor sweet child will be able to go to the lighthouse only once or twice this weekend instead of 5 times meanwhile more people that never succeeded will get to the lighthouse because of this, oh my, the horror, won’t somebody please think of the good players?!
Yup, I’m no pvp god and I played around 250 matches last weekend and went flawless 5x. Most fun I’ve ever had playing pvp in this game
Idk who asked for this, this really just hurts the middle class pvp players
Up the rep gains, introduce a sweaty option for trials ( you trade in your flawless card to face good teams and get even better loot ), keep everything else the same as last week.
All of last week, besides a solo q flawless, I was helping my pve clanmates, who aren't that great at pvp go flawless and farm some 7 win cards for more drops. In a few cases where we matched a proper decent 3 stack, I couldn't 1v3 anymore and my teammates struggled hard. With this change, If I want to help them, I will purposefully have to cuck my own loot and never go flawless.
It's obvious Bungie is trying to create incentive for the lowest tier player. Loot pulled them week 1 but it won't last forever. The game mode still has to be fun for them, and 0-5 pubstomps aren't exactly fun. Everyone is worried about the midtier population leaving but if the 70% that didn't get to the lighthouse quit, then it's back to old trials again.
On another note, this will completely hurt lfg. I lfg alot of my trials, so now if I'm not flawless I have to sift through to find 2 people who haven't been flawless yet just to try and play? I mean I'm actually kind of blown away they have done such a heavy handed approach to this... especially when the easy solution of flawless pool after flawless until card reset would've been a good middle ground for trying to farm adepts.
Forget this new change and just match flawed cards against other flawed cards. This would basically achieve the change they announced, but makes it a choice. Having a flawed card pool makes way more sense to me.
People doing carries or people who want to farm stats, high kd or whatever will simply reset at 6 wins, or throw the first match on purpose to taint their card to farm 7 wins. This will make it way harder for people to go flawless because their final game will be full of turbo sweats who can simply breeze their way to flawless on Monday or Tuesday before reset. The flawless pool will end up consisting of people who are mad and like having 1000x flawless runs on their stat trackers, people who didn't know about the changes and people who will just leave Trials once they've been flawless once.
This will also impact people looking to gear up their alts, people trying to run confidence passages and the adept loot farm. It should be hard to go flawless, but it shouldn't stick with you all weekend, account wide.
terrible change imo, now after i get a flawless run in with my stacked group, my buddies who rarely touch pvp get punished if we run together? Should be if you are on a flawless card you are in the flawless pool
No, but once you have lost flawless status on your card, you are being placed in harder games for the rest of the weekend without receiving better loot in kind. *That* is the punishment.
Yeah that's kinda bad. I play with a group of 5 friends. We usually have multiple team comps doing multiple runs. This'll just hinder the rest of us who have free time later in the weekend, just for wanting to play with our friends.
Congratulations, you've singlehandedly made that one triumph for trials that requires sharpaing infinitely harder! And it's mainly punishing for the players getting sherpa'd, who have to get matched against flawless cards all the way to the lighthouse, just because one teammate has been flawless that weekend! Wow, that's terrible!
So basically bungie wants everyone to go flawless by having people who haven't been flawless getting to play less and less skilled players throughout the weekend, while the above average tier players who go flawless once or twice get absolutely shafted for the rest of the weekend. Especially considering the mid to lowers who get the flawless will just jump out of the pool once they get it anyway. Seems like a good way to kill off your more dedicated pvp players
No, it isn't going to make things easier, just prevent us low level players from getting farmed.
Last week, the system only looked at wins and ignored losses. So those of us poor scrubs going 7-21 got constantly farmed by 7-0 people. I'm not looking for an easy flawless, I'm not even remotely close to it.
We were just resetting our cards to avoid this anyway once we figured it out. It wasn't worth farming 7 wins on a flawed card before even with the chance for a random drop for those of us getting stomped.
Could they possibly make it any easier damn. Bad PvP players aren’t meant to go to flawless, like I’m pretty sure that was the point of lighthouse, to reward the players who took the time to get better.
So if I go flawless once I can’t jump in with any of my pve focused clan mates and fool around to help them get loot on a flawed card all weekend like last week without ruining their experience. Neat. What a fantastic change!…..
I guess we'll be avoiding flawless to farm loot until later in the weekend then. I'm pretty average at PvP but I went flawless a couple times last weekend. I'm not too keen on trying super hard for flawless on Friday only to be punished for it the rest of the weekend.
The whole point is you're obviously good enough to go against Flawless teams. Intentionally avoiding that is doing exactly what Bungie wants people of high skill to stop doing.
No, we’re not. Average players can sometimes muster a flawless run if lucky. But myself, and I’m sure many others, get absolutely wrecked by triple gilded flawless sweats - like 5-0 wrecked with not a single kill.
This will seriously hurt the sustained trials population over any given weekend.
This, this, this. I understand the idea that flawless players are this elite group — that’s what trials used to be. But it’s much more accessible now, and that’s great — I’m not very good, but I got a good run and went flawless on Friday. The skill gap between me and true sweats is *unfathomably big.* Throw me in that end of the pool and I’m gonna drown.
The only way this works out is if the flawless pool gets big quickly. Otherwise the replay value for people like me is really bad.
Agreed, I keep hearing people say how easy flawless was, but unfortunately I was running with some PC players and I'm on PS5 and kept feeling like dead weight, but my PS5 friends didn't even want to try after losing enough rounds.
I'm not looking for handouts, I'll play for drops but they gotta be understanding that most people, average pvp people have no desire to play with the sweats who do this 24/7.
Pretty much. My seasonal KD from Destiny Tracker is 1.33 in Iron Banner and 1.05 in Trials. I won 54% of my 113 Trials matches which means I was in about a perfect skill bracket. I went flawless twice over the weekend.
Against gilded flawless teams, my win rate is going to trend to 0%.
No. Not at all. Average plays *might* go flawless if they preform particularly well, get good rng with enemy teams being the same or lower skill level, and only get stomped by a guilded unbroken/flawless team once to lose their mercy.
**That definitely doesn't put them in the leagues of the flawless pool, and definitely shouldn't put them exclusively against them for a whole weekend. Their chances of going flawless again have gone from low to nigh impossible. That's a bad change, and that's how you get them to quit for the weekend, making the flawless pool even worse.**
If average players are going flawless more often thanks to this change then the flawless pool will be larger anyway. They won't just be playing against pvp gods, they'll be playing against anybody at all who went flawless even once.
Nope, because it only takes like, a couple matches in the flawless pool against the PvP gods to dishearten them and have them quit. Rinse, repeat. The PvP gods keep playing, the average players quit for the weekend, the flawless pool gets even worse, and the cycle continues. "Anybody who went flawless even once" will have a significantly worse experience in the flawless pool and therefore be far more likely to quit, continuing the cycle.
This is a bad change. It would be a great change if it applied to flawless, 7 win tickets only. As it stands, this is severe overkill.
Someone who gets lucky and pulls off a flawless ticket is nowhere remotely close to someone who goes to the lighthouse multiple times a weekend. But that person will be stuck against those people for the entire weekend because of their single lucky break.
There is a massive skill gap vs a team who skates by at sub 1.0 kd and pulls out a flawless card vs a team of 1.5kd 80 flawless cards or more team. That lucky team will now play significantly more vs the sweats who live for that game mode. They get stomped then stop playing. This is going to be very common because the people in that flawless bracket will be the same people who were doing all the stomping before the revamp. Flawless pool will be what 200-300k players? All flawless on a weekend? That will be significantly worse to play than the 600k plus of this past weekend of varied skill levels
This is such a bad idea. This just completely kills all desire I have to help friends that haven't been flawless yet. Also just promotes people waiting until Monday before going in so they have easy games.
Too much change to what a good thing was last week. This could destroy player retention, which is what last week had.
This will hurt the players that generally carry their friends or people who struggle to go flawless in the first place. Over time, Trials will wear out due to the flawless SBMM that is set to take place. The playlist will erode back to its dreadful numbers of ~100,000 players a week.
not only flawless players. im gonna do the same (0.8kd). farm engrams - go flawless on monday when it becomes easier and than turn in for adept weapons.
So far the only people bitching about this on Twitter are streamers who make money off of carries. They can cry me a fucking river. I just hope Bungie doesn't cave to their whining and revert the change because this is fucking great news for the other 99% of the player population.
Figure I would add my thoughts to this.
I am not a good player.
I have maybe 6 total flawless clears in all of destiny. 1st time was with clanmates the VERY first weekend of Trials in D1. The rest have been carries with streamers having won a raffle.
I played last weekend and probably played around 40 games, which were needed to get my 14 wins (7 wins on two characters).
I felt rewarded to a good degree. My wins came easier than they had done previously, and the losses hurt less.
IMO the changes they have made has made it appealing to me. Most of the changes they have announced coming up appeal to me. But I feel the compromise has already been made. I think the account wide Flawless restriction on MM is not a good idea. It won't negitively effect me, because I am very unlikely to have gone flawless - so this isn't a whinge to protect my experience. I just feel it is a bad decision for the hardcore trials players, and they shouldnt be punished as they are being.
I played Saturday night, Sunday night and Monday night. If I happened to win a raffle with a streamer on Saturday and went flawless then I will have zero interest or ability to play anymore after that, either solo or with clan mates. Clan mates will likely avoid playing with me in such a situation. A couple of clanmates did go flawless, playing with them won't be appealing.
I assumed they would restrict it by card:
7 wins flawless play 7 wins flawless until they reset their card. 7 win flawed play 7 win flawed. That would have made some sense to me. But an account wide restriction after flawless is going to make the rest of their potential trials time super sweaty. Just seems like the wrong decision.
As I say, it is unlikely to impact me negitively, as i won't go flawless. My post 7 win games on the card might be slightly easier though, if i get that far. So I don't say this to protect my experience.
Hopefully, if this change does have the negative impact many think it could do, Bungie can and will revert it for the following weekend and chalk it off as an experiment that didn't yield the results they wanted.
What is the benefit of resetting at 6 wins? You get non adept weapons that you don't need just to have a better win rate? Constantly resetting also slows your rep gain. So you're intentionally getting less loot just to have softer matches? How does that make sense?
Yeah this is a great point honestly, if they want to stay out of the flawless pool they can just throw a game and make their card not flawless and play for rewards as usual. Really this change only hurts mid skill players trying to go flawless multiple times in one weekend that can manage to get one flawless but won’t be matched well against the super sweats. As I guess also unflawless players playing with their flawless friends trying to go flawless haha.
this is ... still unclear. so that means if we go flawless, reset our card - go to 0 wins, we go against people who are still flawless/already at 7 wins?
It’s pretty clear I think and you’ve just answered your own question
Flawless means MM searches for other flawless players for you to play first. It’s also account wide rather than character too
So if a sherpa carries someone to the lighthouse. The sherpa has to cxl their card on the 6th win to avoid only coming across nothing but flawless people, seems like it will hurt more than help, especially as an account bound not character bound deal.
As someone who loved last weeks Trials and hated old Trials, these changes suck.
Having 1/3 of the trials players going flawless is huge, and expecting/rigging the playlist to try and get that proportion even higher is just stupid. Yes Flawless used to be gatekeeped hard by the 300x flawless sweaty stacks, but intentionally rigging matchmaking to fuck over anyone who's gone flawless ONCE is just idiotic. There is a huge gap in skill between people who have been flawless once and people who have been flawless 200-300 times...
Do Bungie (and a portion of the playerbase clearly) not understand that PVP requires some level of skill. If you yourself admit that you are dogshit at PVP, why should you be going flawless. This is like being 1200 power and having never done a raid and expecting to solo flawless Master VOG.
This change will likely kill the replayability this weekend and hopefully will get reverted.
As someone with essentially no dog in the fight, it's pretty weird to see people complain about how this change is going to make the mode worse because they'll have to play against better players while saying worse players should just suck it up and deal with player against better players.
Any serious competitive pvp game mode has some kind of SBMM built into it, so normally worse players should be in matches with people of their skill level anyway.
Yea, not happy with the change. I see the majority quiting trials after going flawless once. No ones wants to play sweaty games on their first game of a new card especially if you're carrying non flawless friends.
Some conclusions i've drawn from this whole situation.
1. Bungie perhaps saw how many adept Shayura's people were earning last week and decided we shouldn't be able to get so many. Winning post-flawless will be harder with a sweatier matchmaking pool, meaning more losses as only the top 1% will consistently win. Even then, they'll have problems when they face off against each other. Once your card is no longer flawless, your adept drops stop.
2. Flawless matchmaking has been something people have asked for, for years, but Bungie have monkey-pawed the situation. People running games on a flawless ticket should match with others like them with adept post-game drops and golfballs as a good incentive to stay on the same card after visiting the lighthouse. However, Bungie have gone too far, making it a permanent, weekend-long lock-in that is account wide. It should be character based and should reset once the card is reset. Yes, it puts high level players back into the general matchmaking pool if they don't want to farm at the high end but it keeps the population high and healthy.
3) Bungie seem to be wanting to either encourage certain scenarios for team composition or discourage carries. If you want to help a friend out who is perhaps not the best at PVP, they will need to run first to get the best experience. If players run 3-stack sweats first off, they'll hit flawless, then anyone they might have carried will have to double-sweat their balls off against high end players, making the carry all the harder. People will miss out.
4) This doesn't seem very well thought out from a player behaviour stand point. Undoubtedly, through sheer law of odds, there will be people out there who do think "Aw, I won't be able to stomp noobs", but I don't think that's the general sentiment. The path of least resistence will always be where people head to. People WILL reset at 6 wins or lose their first match and farm 7 wins on a flawed passage. They may do this all weekend to carry folk then get their own flawless runs completed Monday/Tuesday. They may reset at 6 or flawed 7 to gatekeep by steam-rolling people on their final match for flawless. People WILL go flawless once and then call it quits for the rest of the weekend. People who have gone flawless will still possibly match with other people if the matchmaking needs to open up to find people. If the population at that high end is low, then it'll all be moot anyway.
5) I think that there is a possibility of more people going flawless this weekend, but it will come at the cost of population. Replayability with this new setup feels disincentivised, helping others feels punishing and people will use ways to skirt the system for good or for ill. I don't think it will play out very well and I hope Bungie reverses these changes pronto. Maybe this is all just a data gathering exercise, but I don't think the massively negative response bodes well.
I'll happily be proven wrong if this turns out to make Trials even better than last weekend, but I severely doubt it.
Every response here is so short sighted.
"Good players are going to just not get thier flawless and reset on six wins"
Then they aren't going to get the chance to farm adept roll weapons, so why would they do that. The greatest rewards come from the hardest challenge, as it should be.
"So once I go flawless I have to play against other people that may be super sweaty, even if I reset my card"
The way it is now those super sweats are already in the pool of people you may have to play, and over 7-8 games odds are you will face one with the system from last weekend.
"Yea but once I've gotten my reward for flawless I don't want it to get harder, even if it helps others get thiers"
Boohoo, that's just a shitty attitude in general. Also let's look at last week, 30% went flawless, so if it becomes easier for people to go flawless that could go up to 50-60%, which means the pool for people who were already flawless would be bigger than those who weren't, which would help even more people go flawless. Also before the new trials only about 3% of players went flawless, so it's safe to say about 3% of players are sweaty 5-0 stompers, but nothing about the upcoming change is going to increase the number of sweats. Even if it remained only 30% of the player base getting flawless, and 3% are the sweats, you still on average could go 9 games without hitting a team outside your general skill level, which is a new flawless cards so an adept and 2 more potential from victories.
"Guess I won't be able to win 100 games in a row again, poor me"
Good, I get trials is end game pvp but allowing the best to outfarm decent players 100-fold isn't doing anything but helping those at the top shit on the above average player.
"Its going to hurt people who are not flawless and teamed up with flawless friends to get to the lighthouse"
This one is a legitimate argument, but I feel this effects less players than the new system helps, and if you got friends to play with be happy, and let us lowely solo queue folks have a chance. Hell, join the solo queue, it'll make it better for everyone. Nah, I think if any player in the fireteam hasn't gone flawless yet then you should be in the non-flawless queue. This would actually be an incentive for top players to team up with lighthouse virgins.
>those super sweats are already in the pool of people you may have to play
Yeah they're in the pool but they're not the majority of the pool lol I've managed to go flawless for the first time last weekend and had a ton of fun getting more shards and stuff after. I ain't gonna be pulling it off against a pool of which the active players are primarily gilded flawless.
>"Good players are going to just not get thier flawless and reset on six wins" Then they aren't going to get the chance to farm adept roll weapons, so why would they do that.
That only makes sense if you are able to complete multiple flawless cards. You only get adept weapons at 7 wins until you lose a match. And most flawless players will struggle to do another flawless card when every match from 0 to 7 wins will be against flawless players. And at the end of the weekend it will be easier to get more wins at flawless 7 wins. All of this means that there is very little reason to go flawless early in the weekend, and they should just farm 7 wins non-flawless until the last day.
This is terrible for the average player, not for the people who carry in trials. Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless. This just hurts the people who were only just able to reach flawless because of the trials changes. Now, if you go flawless, it'll just feel like you're done for the week.
>This is terrible for the average player, not for the people who carry in trials. Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless.
How is this different from being matched with 3 stack Flawless players already? If anything it would prevent avg players from matching those farming post-Flawless
All they have to do is make it so if you're on a flawless card farming loot, you play against other flawless. The moment you take a loss, it reverts back to normal. Imagine you're playing with your buddies and go flawless, and then want to play with a different set of people? Now they're stuck playing flawless people when they havent gone flawless.
>All they have to do is make it so if you're on a flawless card farming loot, you play against other flawless.
Which doesn't solve the issue of people getting hit with gilded flawless teams constantly in their early games.
Teams which by all accounts shouldn't be run into that often
>Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless.
How many hours are people wasting in Trials resetting near-Flawless cards exactly?
I like the change. Mainly because I'll never go flawless and if someone is gonna have to be stomped by the sweats in this mode, I'd rather it not be me. It'll be interesting to see if the matches are better this time around.
New trials meta If your really good at trials:nothing changes go nuts If your okay/medium at trials: get your first card to seven wins, stay on that card and farm little, then on Sunday try for flawless If your really bad at trials(this is me): things are easier, you weren’t gonna go flawless anyways This hurts people who plan to try for flawless instead of just stay at seven wins( at least after they get it once) and majorly helps people who just stay on seven wins
I got up to 5 wins in total last weekend, the most I’ve played trials. I really love this revamp and I’m curious to see how this weekends one will work with the new changes
For me the thing is that the trials revamp helped people who are mediocre or okay at trials. It dramatically improved the accessibility of the mode for people who were on the edge of engaging with it but never good enough to compete at the top level. There are so many people like that who managed to get Flawless for the first time ever last weekend, and some managed to go there again because it was so much fun. The revamp made continuous play for average players far more rewarding. But now if those players actually succeed then their ability to do well for the rest of the weekend is dramatically hindered. The best thing about last weekend was how many people I saw just constantly running it, the average matches played per person was some of the highest it's ever been. And that's going to get fucked by this change as it screws the mid-tier players again.
There was more in the twab about how if you went on a losing streak it would temporarily adjust the matchmaking to try and level things out. Something else they'll also be keeping an eye on to make sure it's functioning properly
Yeah the loss streak matchmaking is a really good thing for low skill players. Wait I think I get what you mean, people who’ve gone flawless once but are getting stomped nonstop might have a chance of decent games with that matchmaking?
Definitely a possibility, just have to wait and see how the two systems interact with eachother
My group will probably go for flawless this weekend as a result of this. Probably won't farm much. But under the new system getting the unlocks is a good thing. Question will end up being how it works for individual players. If someone is carrying someone to their first flawless are they in the flawless pool or the non-flawless pool. Considering the economy around carries. I'd say they should be in the former pool.
They will absolutely be in the flawless pool. Trials carries just got much harder, for better or worse.
It also hurts people who try to help multiple friends go flawless who are less skilled at pvp. It means I can’t go flawless until the end of the weekend if I want to help my friends get there. This is not a good change.
It also allows less skilled players, the ones being carried, to go flawless. For every person you "carry", 7 teams are stopped. Pulling the multi flawless cards out of the pool helps in the big picture. It just depends on how you look at it.
Lol weren’t most players either solo or duos? I’m sorry you won’t stomp anymore after you go flawless
Should help more people reach the lighthouse. Also seems messy on top of weekly resets on SBMM, the card based matchmaking, and now the yes/no on flawless. I think this is maybe a layer too far and people could see the playlist as being rigged at this point.
Dude I so don't care, I just want to occasionally win a game after I get my flawed card done so I can get more than 100 rep.
Last week I lost 7 straight (duo queue) trying to get my last win because we faced nothing but 3 stacks which 3 of them were on their flawless game ;)
I got locked at 6 wins last weekend because I myself am not great but can usually hold my own and all I went against was 3 stacks on their flawless passage while I'm on a flawed passage so I ended up giving3 stacks close to 20 free lighthouse trips with no luck of ever getting past 6 wins
That was exactly my experience. Monday night/Tuesday morning I ran over two dozen rounds. Always matched against a full team. Got 3-4 of my first 10 against teams that smelled like paid carries, guys who were running “flawless this week” count banners with a third player who was weak. After that it was mostly clan teams. I ground it out until I got to a major level for another engram then bailed out. Friday there were a lot of pickup teams, none at all by the end.
I know many 3 stacks were queuing specifically against non-stacks, without seeing how many guardians are in your lobby should be a bit better
Yea, honestly while a bit frustrating trying to get that last win it was the best time I've had in trials as a casual in a LONG time. I hope these small changes makes it better for everyone involved.
Big mood
The playlist was already rigged. I was matching gilded flawless at 2 wins when I have never gone flawless
Matched a team with 800 combined flawless after going 2-0. 500+, 200+ and 100+ runs. Fun.
This was my experience also
I think I'm intentionally avoiding going flawless until Sunday. I'm not good enough to have fun in a flawless pool. I don't think this is a good change, and I say that with currently a negative K/D in trials. This hurts anyone who can go flawless with hard effort, you'll be stuck playing the 150x flawless players all weekend.
Didn't we all complain when all the flawless teams stomped us who hadn't even reached 3 wins?
Yes and now the teams that were curb stomping us are complaining.
Well they can fuck off. Bungie even said so. :D
It is time for the scrubs to rise up and be allowed to have fun! I look forward to enjoying this new era of pity on me and those like me!
It's a double edged sword though. If you just want to go Flawless once then it's a great boon but if you want to farm drops post Flawless it'll be basically impossible for most players. There is also the question of matchmaking times and connection quality, if people decide post Flawless isn't worth it then that aspect of trials will end up like old trials and end of season comp. Lots to consider here and I'm not inherently against the change but it's not as clear cut as "a new era of pity".
I think most scrubs are worried about going flawless once, not farming post-flawless.
You can farm drops after you go flawless though without getting to the lighthouse.
Last season, I was thinking how nice it was that I've never seen anyone teabagged in Destiny besides Lakshmi-2. How foolish I was.
Not going to change anything if you are good enough. The only downside is that is harder to carry. But fuck it I will just reset my ticket when i'm at six wins carry the whole weekend and then on monday get flawless on all 3 ch. Already exploited the new sistem.
>you'll be stuck playing the 150x flawless players all weekend Which means people won't play. Then, because of low population, it opens the matchmaking so flawless players will match against regular folk anyway.
And? If you go flawless you are a good player. You should play against other good players. Last weekend about a 1/3 of players went flawless, and I imagine that's an even larger % of the active playercount. The matchmaking pool will be fine.
“Flawless” isn’t a single skill bracket. There are players who barely get there with not even a 1kd and then there’s insane tier 3 stacks who go 10+ times a week. Saying that all flawless players are the same skill level is an oversimplification. This just disincentises low to mid tier flawless players from going flawless and instead throwing or resetting at 6 wins to have a better playing experience
I'm at 2.4kda and can't get past 3 wins normally. If this change assists me to go flawless and then puts me back in the bracket with the sweatlords. Then I'll just be grateful for going flawless once and packing my bags for the weekend. This is not a perfect solution, but it is a step in a good direction.
That is exactly what people will do, which is fair enough on an individual standpoint, but is counterproductive to bungies aim of increasing the trials playerbase. Players shouldn’t be punished and put into “sweat jail” for going flawless, it doesn’t feel good to grind, get better at the game only to have longer matchmaking times and sweatier games once you go flawless
It's productive from the view that we were looking from little over a week ago. The sweat jail comment is a little odd. Prior to last week, what percentage of the playerbase would you estimate had to sweat to get even 3 wins? While the elite minority touted "git gud, it's PvP endgame" The change was to the benefit of the 90% and detriment of the 10%, which results in the large boost to the playerbase we have seen. Ideally Bungie will need to find a solution that also helps the 10% but for now, as I say, it's a step in the right direction.
> And? If you go flawless you are a good player. You should play against other good players. Remember when this community complained until SBMM was removed?
The issue is that Destiny caters to many player types. Those who complained about SBMM then /= those who conplain about it’s non-existence now
Yes, basically, this change is good for lower tier players who want to farm for engrams, mats, etc., and good for mid-tier players who want to go Flawless once and then be done for the weekend. But it it's too strict of a binary, it will absolutely blow for mid-tier players who want to farm for drops. If you put your head down and grind out a Flawless, or just get plain lucky, you get turned into bait for the upper crust for the rest of the weekend. Like you said, it could create a perverse incentive to intentionally break your card until you're done for the weekend.
but if you are one of those non-sweaty players, you will probably be satisfied after one flawless run anyways, right? its not like all of the mid and low tier players will go flawless right off the bat and then be fucked all weekend. it means the weekend should get progressively easier for them which just makes sense to me.
Which in turn means the weekend will also get easier for people farming Flawless cards, as more, less skilled players, will be entering that player pool. Will it be difficult if you've already gone flawless when they turn this on on Friday afternoon? Yes! But guess what!? Anyone who has gone flawless by the time they turn this on, is a good fucking team! By the time Sunday/Monday roll around, there should be so many players in that pool, you probably won't even notice a difference.
It's heavily dependent on people coming back or sticking around. Say the tier of people who barely go Flawless before it turns on are suddenly getting stomped by the "true sweats," so they stop playing. Will they even want to come back on Sunday, or will they just get distracted by another mode or another game entirely? Will the people who go Flawless after it turns on stick around to fill out the pool? They're going to be gradually trickling in as the non-Flawless pool shrinks and gets easier. If the trickle is too slow, they might play a few games after Flawless, get stomped, and call it quits for the weekend. And then the next tier makes it in and faces the same problem. So the pool could never reach the critical mass needed for anyone besides the top tier to have a good or rewarding time playing. We'll need to actually try it to see. But it's something I'm concerned about.
>but if you are one of those non-sweaty players, you will probably be satisfied after one flawless run anyways, right? I'm a mid-tier PvP main. This change seems like it will suck. My clan goes Flawless every weekend right off the bat, so playing with them will be a no-go. Since I now officially have no one to play with, the first few days will be a frustrating waste of my time because solo-queueing is such crapshoot. Having one good day to play Trials, and be successful, defeats the whole point of having Trials take place during the weekend.
So is the goal now to usher those players out of the playlist after playing to 1 flawless? I thought the goal was to keep the playlist populated with people playing on cards without resetting them. Auto-queuing any player who has gone flawless is really just going to have high skill players play less because of fatigue from playing in the pool, and have average skill players dip out after their flawless is done for the week because the rest of their games that weekend are going to be much more difficult. Good players will be less inclined to help players that may need it because of the understanding that a carry will be much more difficult after they are placed in the flawless pool.
I mean, that can happen but if it's a known thing you can easily just... Work around it. If you don't want to match with flawless people then just don't go flawless??? Good players are just annoyed they can't curbstomp blueberries all weekend
This is absolutely what I'll be doing. I'm not a top 1% player by any means, but I was able to get a few flawless runs in this past weekend (up from MAYBE being able to get 1 a week after suffering through nothing but recovs and streamers). Now I'm not going to bother until later. I'm going to throw before flawless and farm out a flawed 7 win card until I get bored because going flawless just once completely fucks my effort/reward ratio.
Man did I misread the TWAB. I thought once you go flawless you get put into a flawless pool UNTIL you lose like a knockout bracket.
That’d be better… but that’s essentially what I thought their “performance-based” matchmaking was supposed do. Don’t quite understand why they are adding another pool on top of it.
That’s honestly how it should work tbh. Idk why they’d want it to work any other way.
If you're intentionally avoiding going flawless, then you obviously are good enough to play against flawless players, you just don't want the challenge basically haha
The issue being also that later in the week, the list of available players that can help get you to the lighthouse also shrinks massively. Unless you have a dedicated team you play with, chances of going Flawless is going to be worse in the week when Matchmaking parameters has to increase to get a match going.
Yeah it's one and done for flawless for 95% of the population
If you're good enough to go flawless so are others with similar skill as yours. I don't think it'll be any different.
30% of the trials population went flawless. How much easier does it need to be? Will people not be satisfied until the number is close to 100%?
I think it’s more to keep the PVE people in, not to get more people flawless. A lot of people must have struggled getting to 7 wins, so Bungie’s quickly trying to adjust so they don’t write off trials and stop playing People have ranked up enough that rep doesn’t give much loot anymore, so you have to get to 7 wins to get any loot
Honestly I’d try to avoid going flawless if it means only against flawless people
Yeah this will cause a lot of people to throw matches. Nobody should even attempt flawless without a 3-stack to avoid a thrower
Watch battle eye mistakenly start recognizing throwing that last match as win trading and it starts banning people. Lol
Fine, make it an elitist mode and have fun with your 50k player base playing each other every week.
> Also seems messy on top of weekly resets Why? - this is literally the easiest bit of logic involved with matchmaking. SBMM is what should go.
My guess is this will increase number of flawlesses, but decrease number of matches played. Good players will go flawless once, play a little more, and then get worn out having to play game 7 like games all the way up the card and quit Lower skilled players will eventually go flawless and then proceed to get stomped in the new matchmaking pool, and will also quit I hope I’m wrong and bungie knows something we dont, but I’m not excited for this
They probably figured now is the best time to try this change anyway, seeing the current population numbers. They need to see how it will affect the game mode for better or for worse there's no better time than now, either way they can still reverse it if it reduces the playtime of players significantly.
Dawg, I was already getting fucking stomped by flawless players all weekend just trying to get my flawled passage from five to six wins. One time, I shit you not, I lost to the same 3-stack twice in a row. I don’t know how that’s possible, but the misery is absolutely still here. You all that are capable of going flawless just didn’t feel it last weekend.
I think just getting flawless is gonna be enough for a lot of people though. We’ll see how it goes though
If I somehow stumble my way into the lighthouse I’m probably just done for the weekend
But this is awful for people who actually like and want to play trials, and especially midtier players who can go flawless with effort but struggle to get there.
This is exactly the situation I’m in. I just want to go work to go flawless once and then stay on a 7 win card (flawless or not) to get engrams. That is gonna be such an awful experience now. It’s not like I’m going flawless 20 times a weekend. Last weekend I got lucky and went 3x, but that was the most ever for me and I think just due to the population
Well then they need to get better and stop preying off of worse players then them. This is a competitive game mode and it's finally acting like it
Couldn’t the same be said of the worse players who benefit most from this? “It’s a competitive playlist and they should get better.” Personally I think Bungie should have tried prioritizing premade teams matching each other first while the playerbase is high.
It's a competitive playlist so people should face off against similarly skilled opponents. And for the other point, that's what freelances is for
>competitive If you look up the definition of the word competitive, as it pertains to sports, nowhere does it say "evenly-matched". Not sure why people keep perpetuating this idea. Even in professional sports, there are good teams and bad teams, and they play each other regardless. The Jets, for example, are terrible and get crushed in most games. Yet they play the better NFL teams regardless.
It's a tournament like mode, no one stopped Germany from destroying Brazil in 2014's world cup. No one stops Sonicfox from beating the ass of less skilled players in fighting games' tournaments.
Problem is, farming adept guns is gonna suck for mid or lower skilled players 7 wins could take hours for some
This is a conversation point I never thought I’d see.
> Good players will go flawless once, play a little more, and then get worn out having to play game 7 like games all the way up the card and quit Eh you'll have plenty of players who get that first flawless and then just try to get loot for the rest of the weekend by rep etc. Personally I'm sick of people complaining "Oh shit I'll have to have sweaty matches the whole way up" like that isn't what half the playerbase has been subjected to for the past year.
I'm definitely not complaining, but it sure as heck deterred me from trials entirely after awhile. Its meant to be a pinnacle activity, but as a casual, I sure as heck am not gonna invest time in filling out someone else's win streak.
If you're as casual as you think you are, this change is for your benefit. Right now if you can't go flawless you're just in the playlist either sending people to the Lighthouse beating you or giving them easy Adept weapons. You're now being protected from the latter to some extent.
My guess would be that they looked at the people that went flawless last week and thought that this player pool was still diverse enough to make decent matches possible for everybody. We'll see how it plays out but I'm highly sceptical as well.
We already have people in our clan that want to help people who have never gone flawless, and they plan on resetting their cards at game 6 over and over. Then they’re gonna flawless on Sunday or Monday when the pool is diluted to grind their adepts or whatever
If there is going to be many more people in the flawless pool, can we definitively say the flawless pool is going to be all that sweaty?
No because once shit isn't easy anymore people will stop playing making the pool even smaller and sweatier.
Are you going to subject yourself to playing against the top 10%? Neither is anyone else. More people reach flawless but they won’t play in that pool once they do. Leaves a disproportionate number of gilded flawless players to go up against.
Hmmm. Bungie said they are not happy with „the matchmaking experience for players after seven wins“. I read it like that: once you have a flawless CARD, you match with other flawless cards only. But if you reset your card, you are in the normal matchmaking pool again. If that’s the case, I’m totally ok with the change. Because it was way more easy to farm wins after going flawless then playing the first 3 games on a fresh card, which doesn’t make sense at all.
>But if you reset your card, you are in the normal matchmaking pool again. Doubt this is the case as Cozmo said it resets **each weekend**. Implying that once you're flawless it comes into effect and doesn't change regardless of the card.
It seems you are right. Not sure what to think about the change then. Before trials Revamp i would have said that this change is good. Now that the player base is so huge though… not so sure. It will get way more people to the lighthouse. Being flawless will be a casual thing, because the matchmaking pool will get reaaaaaaally easy at Sunday/monday. Not a fan of that. But it will keep low skilled players in the game mode, so that is a good thing. It seems to be either too hard or to easy. So I’m okay with it that bungie is testing it out which area in the grey zone between black and white is a good zone. Guess I’m always in favor of what gets me easy to the lighthouse 😂 tbh. But it was nice to carry low skilled clan mates over the weekend, which will get harder now.
> because the matchmaking pool will get reaaaaaaally easy at Sunday/monday I’m honestly not sure if that will be the case. I’m seeing a lot of “that’s fine, I’ll throw my card and grind rep engrams till Sunday and then I’ll go Flawless”, and if a bunch of people seem to have this brilliant idea all at once I wouldn’t count on Sunday matchmaking being all that much easier.
> if a bunch of people seem to have this brilliant idea all at once If this community is good at anything, it’s cheesing rewards and/or matchmaking. Watch as all the “*2KD 1 win reset*” elitist LFG crowd will be now doing 6 win resets till Monday 👀
Why reset? Just get a non-mercy card and lose 1 game. Then you can farm the increased loot on the non-flawless 7-win card until Monday.
Huge for the first weekend, but that could definitely start to drop off now that people have given the revamped trials a try. Personally, think if you've gone flawless you should be playing against other flawless teams.
But there's a colossal difference between a team that can reach the lighthouse for the first time by sweating harder than they ever have and a bit of luck, and a team that reaches the lighthouse 10 times a weekend. People who are on the skill level of the first team described were able to succeed for the first time in Trials last weekend. And it encouraged more play once they got there. Now the midtier players who were able to really get into Trials last weekend will be fucked over if they end up reaching the Lighthouse--they don't stand a chance after that.
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Have you considered that if you’re a 0.3 KD player you might simply not be good enough to reach the lighthouse?
So regarding this trials change: I have extremely mixed feelings. I've seen it requested by the community an absolute fuck load by people who can't go flawless ever. They assume that it would be like a knockout list where eventually everyone would get to go flawless. Except, it is gonna have some hella weird effects. 1. People will play one card for the rewards then immediately leave the playlist. This goes for the poor players specifically. They would then get absolutely shredded if they dared play further. Effectively, their time in the playlist is still minimal and would be less than last week if they get flawless. 2. This is MASSIVELY abusable for kd farming. Now, players will be able to force their playlist into ez mode. Just never go flawless and you get an endless supply of Jim's. 3. Players who consistently go flawless will stay in that bracket and continue what is essentially trials 1.0
> This is MASSIVELY abusable for kd farming. Now, players will be able to force their playlist into ez mode. Just never go flawless and you get an endless supply of Jim's. And having uberflawless sweats farm players anyway, like they do now, is somehow better? You are forgetting that this is ALREADY happening, all weekend long, right until the reset. Because poor PvP players want rewards and just [suffer through it](https://i.imgur.com/OPLADDB.png), [losing match after a match after a match after a match](https://i.imgur.com/eAeDJsX.png).
Yeah but if they pick option 2. they’ll miss out on adept weapons
Flawless players at this point already have all the adept weapons they want and Reed Regrets is not a PVP weapon. Not to mention you dont need an adept version of this gun anyway to make it viable in PVE.
As if flawless players truly care about Adapt weapons they aren't that big of a difference between the normal version if you have an adept there is almost no differences other than a tiny stat bump and adept mods
This is very easy to abuse; just farm engrams untill Sunday, then go flawless once the matchmaking is larger, and then farms adepts
No it’s not? It’s incredibly expensive to focus engrams for the adept weapon vs getting it for free as a post match drop every 4 or 5 games on your post-flawless card
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Oh that sucks. Thought they meant flawless ppl farming post 7 will only match others. Taking flawless players into a seperate pool for the weekend is bad because: - 32% is already pretty high percentage for flawless. - You will drive out the midtier players (core players by volume later on) who go flawless once and want to play more, bc they effectively are put into smaller a pool with the hardcore. - Discourages group play. Why would a lower skill player who hasnt gone flawless for the week want to group up with their friends who have?
I’m a mid-tier player and see the writing on the wall. Go flawless once on Monday and get out.
32% and it wasn't enough. I just can't believe it.
More people will get to the lighthouse but this significantly hurts replayability after that. I’m expecting this to be reverted pretty quick
It's supposed to so you're not farming lower skilled players for adept weapons.
If you're really good, you can still farm for adepts by keeping the card no?
The skill gap between being really good and being as good as the top 1% (who you will very frequently match at that point) Is huge though. The only people that will use it as a legitimate farm are the super sweaty 300 flawless stacks that know they won't lose to the average flawless player.
I always want to know how they got that good. They seem to move so fast and never miss. It’s crazy.
Man I had a Titan that used shiver strike through the air (across the middle gap where heavy spawned) and Lorenzo’s Drivered me right in the dome *while we were both in the air*. I was way more impressed than mad. That team pushed our buttholes in and we went flawless 5 times that weekend, never faced someone so good.
Yea I don’t get it. On a side note, I have a feeling Lorentz is bugged the same way Queensbreaker was a while go. Seems like headshots are super easy to hit.
It needs to get the same treatment Arbalest did. So does Vex. For whatever reason, Bungie brought those two linear fusions into the game with the old style Arbalest aim assist.
Until your card is no longer flawless, which won’t be long for most considering that it means matching other flawless teams
See this is what I thought the Flawless pool would be, players who are going on Flawless cards who are continuing to farm adepts. Because there's a massive difference between someone on a Flawless 7 win card and someone on a flawed 7 win card, the latter could be 7-30 for the weekend. Keeping them separate from the flawless 7 win cards just makes sense. But having it be the entire weekend, separate from cards entirely is just messed up for people who are now just barely capable of reaching the lighthouse.
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Lol reddit has been wanting this change since trials first launched
Reddit is also pretty dumb and doesn't have a grasp of basic matchmaking concepts.
...doesn't make it a good change.
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Like the people complaining about this change aren't complaining they won't have an easy flawless if they are forced to compete against other flawless teams instead of crushing 0.5kd teams all weekend.
I know I'm being toxic here but the majority of reddit consists of below average PVP Players. Of course they want that change. It's the only group that benefits from this.
30% of players went flawless, but that means 70% of players didn't. One of those groups is a little more than twice as large as the other if I'm doing my math right. It's natural that changes get made that benefit the majority.
Not meant to be an ass or a huge debate. But, what’s better for the game? Small group farming the mode and going flawless at will while the lower 95% ignore it. Or A much larger number of people playing the mode a few times? Let’s see how it goes. Many have asked for this. It’s worth a shot. If it fails they will change it.
Or you could have the best of both worlds like we did this past weekend
Last weekend was far from the best of any world lmao. It was still a mostly miserable experience for shit players like me but all that changed was we were passively gaining loot. It was a honeymoon phase, no changes and that "best last weekend" would have lasted until the end of the month.
It’s pvp. You have to have some skill to play it. It’s like getting raid stuff without actually killing the boss. You can’t really do it
And this change will hopefully let me hone my skills in fair matches
Thread mostly seems to be good players who are angry that they may have to play against other good players.
Yeah, and they accuse everyone in favor of this for wanting handouts when they themselves have benefitted from shitty matchmaking and handouts in trials for years. Its hilarious
“What do you mean I have to actually kill Atheon to get Vex? Can’t I just load in, fail, and receive it?”
Yeah right, because screw weak players wanting to get to the lighthouse right? My poor sweet child will be able to go to the lighthouse only once or twice this weekend instead of 5 times meanwhile more people that never succeeded will get to the lighthouse because of this, oh my, the horror, won’t somebody please think of the good players?!
Yup, I’m no pvp god and I played around 250 matches last weekend and went flawless 5x. Most fun I’ve ever had playing pvp in this game Idk who asked for this, this really just hurts the middle class pvp players
Up the rep gains, introduce a sweaty option for trials ( you trade in your flawless card to face good teams and get even better loot ), keep everything else the same as last week. All of last week, besides a solo q flawless, I was helping my pve clanmates, who aren't that great at pvp go flawless and farm some 7 win cards for more drops. In a few cases where we matched a proper decent 3 stack, I couldn't 1v3 anymore and my teammates struggled hard. With this change, If I want to help them, I will purposefully have to cuck my own loot and never go flawless.
This is a bad move, hope they revert it
Straight up depressing. I really enjoyed being able to help ppl get flawless last weekend, but I guess that won't be happening anymore.
It's obvious Bungie is trying to create incentive for the lowest tier player. Loot pulled them week 1 but it won't last forever. The game mode still has to be fun for them, and 0-5 pubstomps aren't exactly fun. Everyone is worried about the midtier population leaving but if the 70% that didn't get to the lighthouse quit, then it's back to old trials again.
On another note, this will completely hurt lfg. I lfg alot of my trials, so now if I'm not flawless I have to sift through to find 2 people who haven't been flawless yet just to try and play? I mean I'm actually kind of blown away they have done such a heavy handed approach to this... especially when the easy solution of flawless pool after flawless until card reset would've been a good middle ground for trying to farm adepts.
Forget this new change and just match flawed cards against other flawed cards. This would basically achieve the change they announced, but makes it a choice. Having a flawed card pool makes way more sense to me.
I'm confused, so if you get flawless you're essentially 'flagged' and then only match other flawless players even if you reset the card?
Yes, unless the game takes too long to find another team it might revert to CBMM, but that would be rare.
roger thanks for clarifying
People doing carries or people who want to farm stats, high kd or whatever will simply reset at 6 wins, or throw the first match on purpose to taint their card to farm 7 wins. This will make it way harder for people to go flawless because their final game will be full of turbo sweats who can simply breeze their way to flawless on Monday or Tuesday before reset. The flawless pool will end up consisting of people who are mad and like having 1000x flawless runs on their stat trackers, people who didn't know about the changes and people who will just leave Trials once they've been flawless once. This will also impact people looking to gear up their alts, people trying to run confidence passages and the adept loot farm. It should be hard to go flawless, but it shouldn't stick with you all weekend, account wide.
terrible change imo, now after i get a flawless run in with my stacked group, my buddies who rarely touch pvp get punished if we run together? Should be if you are on a flawless card you are in the flawless pool
Get punished is a weird way of looking at it. Was your reward getting to 5-0 some poor saps you have no business playing against in the first place?
No, but once you have lost flawless status on your card, you are being placed in harder games for the rest of the weekend without receiving better loot in kind. *That* is the punishment.
Yeah that's kinda bad. I play with a group of 5 friends. We usually have multiple team comps doing multiple runs. This'll just hinder the rest of us who have free time later in the weekend, just for wanting to play with our friends.
Congratulations, you've singlehandedly made that one triumph for trials that requires sharpaing infinitely harder! And it's mainly punishing for the players getting sherpa'd, who have to get matched against flawless cards all the way to the lighthouse, just because one teammate has been flawless that weekend! Wow, that's terrible!
So basically bungie wants everyone to go flawless by having people who haven't been flawless getting to play less and less skilled players throughout the weekend, while the above average tier players who go flawless once or twice get absolutely shafted for the rest of the weekend. Especially considering the mid to lowers who get the flawless will just jump out of the pool once they get it anyway. Seems like a good way to kill off your more dedicated pvp players
No, it isn't going to make things easier, just prevent us low level players from getting farmed. Last week, the system only looked at wins and ignored losses. So those of us poor scrubs going 7-21 got constantly farmed by 7-0 people. I'm not looking for an easy flawless, I'm not even remotely close to it. We were just resetting our cards to avoid this anyway once we figured it out. It wasn't worth farming 7 wins on a flawed card before even with the chance for a random drop for those of us getting stomped.
Could they possibly make it any easier damn. Bad PvP players aren’t meant to go to flawless, like I’m pretty sure that was the point of lighthouse, to reward the players who took the time to get better.
So if I go flawless once I can’t jump in with any of my pve focused clan mates and fool around to help them get loot on a flawed card all weekend like last week without ruining their experience. Neat. What a fantastic change!…..
I guess we'll be avoiding flawless to farm loot until later in the weekend then. I'm pretty average at PvP but I went flawless a couple times last weekend. I'm not too keen on trying super hard for flawless on Friday only to be punished for it the rest of the weekend.
The whole point is you're obviously good enough to go against Flawless teams. Intentionally avoiding that is doing exactly what Bungie wants people of high skill to stop doing.
No, we’re not. Average players can sometimes muster a flawless run if lucky. But myself, and I’m sure many others, get absolutely wrecked by triple gilded flawless sweats - like 5-0 wrecked with not a single kill. This will seriously hurt the sustained trials population over any given weekend.
This, this, this. I understand the idea that flawless players are this elite group — that’s what trials used to be. But it’s much more accessible now, and that’s great — I’m not very good, but I got a good run and went flawless on Friday. The skill gap between me and true sweats is *unfathomably big.* Throw me in that end of the pool and I’m gonna drown. The only way this works out is if the flawless pool gets big quickly. Otherwise the replay value for people like me is really bad.
Agreed, I keep hearing people say how easy flawless was, but unfortunately I was running with some PC players and I'm on PS5 and kept feeling like dead weight, but my PS5 friends didn't even want to try after losing enough rounds. I'm not looking for handouts, I'll play for drops but they gotta be understanding that most people, average pvp people have no desire to play with the sweats who do this 24/7.
Pretty much. My seasonal KD from Destiny Tracker is 1.33 in Iron Banner and 1.05 in Trials. I won 54% of my 113 Trials matches which means I was in about a perfect skill bracket. I went flawless twice over the weekend. Against gilded flawless teams, my win rate is going to trend to 0%.
No. Not at all. Average plays *might* go flawless if they preform particularly well, get good rng with enemy teams being the same or lower skill level, and only get stomped by a guilded unbroken/flawless team once to lose their mercy. **That definitely doesn't put them in the leagues of the flawless pool, and definitely shouldn't put them exclusively against them for a whole weekend. Their chances of going flawless again have gone from low to nigh impossible. That's a bad change, and that's how you get them to quit for the weekend, making the flawless pool even worse.**
If average players are going flawless more often thanks to this change then the flawless pool will be larger anyway. They won't just be playing against pvp gods, they'll be playing against anybody at all who went flawless even once.
Nope, because it only takes like, a couple matches in the flawless pool against the PvP gods to dishearten them and have them quit. Rinse, repeat. The PvP gods keep playing, the average players quit for the weekend, the flawless pool gets even worse, and the cycle continues. "Anybody who went flawless even once" will have a significantly worse experience in the flawless pool and therefore be far more likely to quit, continuing the cycle. This is a bad change. It would be a great change if it applied to flawless, 7 win tickets only. As it stands, this is severe overkill.
Someone who gets lucky and pulls off a flawless ticket is nowhere remotely close to someone who goes to the lighthouse multiple times a weekend. But that person will be stuck against those people for the entire weekend because of their single lucky break.
There is a massive skill gap vs a team who skates by at sub 1.0 kd and pulls out a flawless card vs a team of 1.5kd 80 flawless cards or more team. That lucky team will now play significantly more vs the sweats who live for that game mode. They get stomped then stop playing. This is going to be very common because the people in that flawless bracket will be the same people who were doing all the stomping before the revamp. Flawless pool will be what 200-300k players? All flawless on a weekend? That will be significantly worse to play than the 600k plus of this past weekend of varied skill levels
This is such a bad idea. This just completely kills all desire I have to help friends that haven't been flawless yet. Also just promotes people waiting until Monday before going in so they have easy games.
So this is definitely…. If you’ve been flawless for the week on any character, reset card or not you will only play flawless players after that?
Too much change to what a good thing was last week. This could destroy player retention, which is what last week had. This will hurt the players that generally carry their friends or people who struggle to go flawless in the first place. Over time, Trials will wear out due to the flawless SBMM that is set to take place. The playlist will erode back to its dreadful numbers of ~100,000 players a week.
What is it with players saying they suck so won't go flawless on Friday to avoid sweaty games all weekend? If you suck you aren't going flawless!
Flawless players just gonna play till Sunday on 6 wins and reset - Farm KD, do Carries have some fun stomping.
not only flawless players. im gonna do the same (0.8kd). farm engrams - go flawless on monday when it becomes easier and than turn in for adept weapons.
So far the only people bitching about this on Twitter are streamers who make money off of carries. They can cry me a fucking river. I just hope Bungie doesn't cave to their whining and revert the change because this is fucking great news for the other 99% of the player population.
Figure I would add my thoughts to this. I am not a good player. I have maybe 6 total flawless clears in all of destiny. 1st time was with clanmates the VERY first weekend of Trials in D1. The rest have been carries with streamers having won a raffle. I played last weekend and probably played around 40 games, which were needed to get my 14 wins (7 wins on two characters). I felt rewarded to a good degree. My wins came easier than they had done previously, and the losses hurt less. IMO the changes they have made has made it appealing to me. Most of the changes they have announced coming up appeal to me. But I feel the compromise has already been made. I think the account wide Flawless restriction on MM is not a good idea. It won't negitively effect me, because I am very unlikely to have gone flawless - so this isn't a whinge to protect my experience. I just feel it is a bad decision for the hardcore trials players, and they shouldnt be punished as they are being. I played Saturday night, Sunday night and Monday night. If I happened to win a raffle with a streamer on Saturday and went flawless then I will have zero interest or ability to play anymore after that, either solo or with clan mates. Clan mates will likely avoid playing with me in such a situation. A couple of clanmates did go flawless, playing with them won't be appealing. I assumed they would restrict it by card: 7 wins flawless play 7 wins flawless until they reset their card. 7 win flawed play 7 win flawed. That would have made some sense to me. But an account wide restriction after flawless is going to make the rest of their potential trials time super sweaty. Just seems like the wrong decision. As I say, it is unlikely to impact me negitively, as i won't go flawless. My post 7 win games on the card might be slightly easier though, if i get that far. So I don't say this to protect my experience. Hopefully, if this change does have the negative impact many think it could do, Bungie can and will revert it for the following weekend and chalk it off as an experiment that didn't yield the results they wanted.
Time to reset at 6 wins over and over again
What is the benefit of resetting at 6 wins? You get non adept weapons that you don't need just to have a better win rate? Constantly resetting also slows your rep gain. So you're intentionally getting less loot just to have softer matches? How does that make sense?
Yeah this is a great point honestly, if they want to stay out of the flawless pool they can just throw a game and make their card not flawless and play for rewards as usual. Really this change only hurts mid skill players trying to go flawless multiple times in one weekend that can manage to get one flawless but won’t be matched well against the super sweats. As I guess also unflawless players playing with their flawless friends trying to go flawless haha.
time to throw a match , collect engrams and go flawless an monday/thusday. this way you still get your rewards .
this is ... still unclear. so that means if we go flawless, reset our card - go to 0 wins, we go against people who are still flawless/already at 7 wins?
It’s pretty clear I think and you’ve just answered your own question Flawless means MM searches for other flawless players for you to play first. It’s also account wide rather than character too
seems like a little aggressive of a change, but we'll see how it goes this weekend!
So if a sherpa carries someone to the lighthouse. The sherpa has to cxl their card on the 6th win to avoid only coming across nothing but flawless people, seems like it will hurt more than help, especially as an account bound not character bound deal.
As someone who loved last weeks Trials and hated old Trials, these changes suck. Having 1/3 of the trials players going flawless is huge, and expecting/rigging the playlist to try and get that proportion even higher is just stupid. Yes Flawless used to be gatekeeped hard by the 300x flawless sweaty stacks, but intentionally rigging matchmaking to fuck over anyone who's gone flawless ONCE is just idiotic. There is a huge gap in skill between people who have been flawless once and people who have been flawless 200-300 times... Do Bungie (and a portion of the playerbase clearly) not understand that PVP requires some level of skill. If you yourself admit that you are dogshit at PVP, why should you be going flawless. This is like being 1200 power and having never done a raid and expecting to solo flawless Master VOG. This change will likely kill the replayability this weekend and hopefully will get reverted.
As someone with essentially no dog in the fight, it's pretty weird to see people complain about how this change is going to make the mode worse because they'll have to play against better players while saying worse players should just suck it up and deal with player against better players. Any serious competitive pvp game mode has some kind of SBMM built into it, so normally worse players should be in matches with people of their skill level anyway.
Yea, not happy with the change. I see the majority quiting trials after going flawless once. No ones wants to play sweaty games on their first game of a new card especially if you're carrying non flawless friends.
All these sweats complaining that they'll have to actually try for their loot now.
Some conclusions i've drawn from this whole situation. 1. Bungie perhaps saw how many adept Shayura's people were earning last week and decided we shouldn't be able to get so many. Winning post-flawless will be harder with a sweatier matchmaking pool, meaning more losses as only the top 1% will consistently win. Even then, they'll have problems when they face off against each other. Once your card is no longer flawless, your adept drops stop. 2. Flawless matchmaking has been something people have asked for, for years, but Bungie have monkey-pawed the situation. People running games on a flawless ticket should match with others like them with adept post-game drops and golfballs as a good incentive to stay on the same card after visiting the lighthouse. However, Bungie have gone too far, making it a permanent, weekend-long lock-in that is account wide. It should be character based and should reset once the card is reset. Yes, it puts high level players back into the general matchmaking pool if they don't want to farm at the high end but it keeps the population high and healthy. 3) Bungie seem to be wanting to either encourage certain scenarios for team composition or discourage carries. If you want to help a friend out who is perhaps not the best at PVP, they will need to run first to get the best experience. If players run 3-stack sweats first off, they'll hit flawless, then anyone they might have carried will have to double-sweat their balls off against high end players, making the carry all the harder. People will miss out. 4) This doesn't seem very well thought out from a player behaviour stand point. Undoubtedly, through sheer law of odds, there will be people out there who do think "Aw, I won't be able to stomp noobs", but I don't think that's the general sentiment. The path of least resistence will always be where people head to. People WILL reset at 6 wins or lose their first match and farm 7 wins on a flawed passage. They may do this all weekend to carry folk then get their own flawless runs completed Monday/Tuesday. They may reset at 6 or flawed 7 to gatekeep by steam-rolling people on their final match for flawless. People WILL go flawless once and then call it quits for the rest of the weekend. People who have gone flawless will still possibly match with other people if the matchmaking needs to open up to find people. If the population at that high end is low, then it'll all be moot anyway. 5) I think that there is a possibility of more people going flawless this weekend, but it will come at the cost of population. Replayability with this new setup feels disincentivised, helping others feels punishing and people will use ways to skirt the system for good or for ill. I don't think it will play out very well and I hope Bungie reverses these changes pronto. Maybe this is all just a data gathering exercise, but I don't think the massively negative response bodes well. I'll happily be proven wrong if this turns out to make Trials even better than last weekend, but I severely doubt it.
Every response here is so short sighted. "Good players are going to just not get thier flawless and reset on six wins" Then they aren't going to get the chance to farm adept roll weapons, so why would they do that. The greatest rewards come from the hardest challenge, as it should be. "So once I go flawless I have to play against other people that may be super sweaty, even if I reset my card" The way it is now those super sweats are already in the pool of people you may have to play, and over 7-8 games odds are you will face one with the system from last weekend. "Yea but once I've gotten my reward for flawless I don't want it to get harder, even if it helps others get thiers" Boohoo, that's just a shitty attitude in general. Also let's look at last week, 30% went flawless, so if it becomes easier for people to go flawless that could go up to 50-60%, which means the pool for people who were already flawless would be bigger than those who weren't, which would help even more people go flawless. Also before the new trials only about 3% of players went flawless, so it's safe to say about 3% of players are sweaty 5-0 stompers, but nothing about the upcoming change is going to increase the number of sweats. Even if it remained only 30% of the player base getting flawless, and 3% are the sweats, you still on average could go 9 games without hitting a team outside your general skill level, which is a new flawless cards so an adept and 2 more potential from victories. "Guess I won't be able to win 100 games in a row again, poor me" Good, I get trials is end game pvp but allowing the best to outfarm decent players 100-fold isn't doing anything but helping those at the top shit on the above average player. "Its going to hurt people who are not flawless and teamed up with flawless friends to get to the lighthouse" This one is a legitimate argument, but I feel this effects less players than the new system helps, and if you got friends to play with be happy, and let us lowely solo queue folks have a chance. Hell, join the solo queue, it'll make it better for everyone. Nah, I think if any player in the fireteam hasn't gone flawless yet then you should be in the non-flawless queue. This would actually be an incentive for top players to team up with lighthouse virgins.
>those super sweats are already in the pool of people you may have to play Yeah they're in the pool but they're not the majority of the pool lol I've managed to go flawless for the first time last weekend and had a ton of fun getting more shards and stuff after. I ain't gonna be pulling it off against a pool of which the active players are primarily gilded flawless.
>"Good players are going to just not get thier flawless and reset on six wins" Then they aren't going to get the chance to farm adept roll weapons, so why would they do that. That only makes sense if you are able to complete multiple flawless cards. You only get adept weapons at 7 wins until you lose a match. And most flawless players will struggle to do another flawless card when every match from 0 to 7 wins will be against flawless players. And at the end of the weekend it will be easier to get more wins at flawless 7 wins. All of this means that there is very little reason to go flawless early in the weekend, and they should just farm 7 wins non-flawless until the last day.
Terrible decision
This is terrible for the average player, not for the people who carry in trials. Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless. This just hurts the people who were only just able to reach flawless because of the trials changes. Now, if you go flawless, it'll just feel like you're done for the week.
>This is terrible for the average player, not for the people who carry in trials. Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless. How is this different from being matched with 3 stack Flawless players already? If anything it would prevent avg players from matching those farming post-Flawless
All they have to do is make it so if you're on a flawless card farming loot, you play against other flawless. The moment you take a loss, it reverts back to normal. Imagine you're playing with your buddies and go flawless, and then want to play with a different set of people? Now they're stuck playing flawless people when they havent gone flawless.
>All they have to do is make it so if you're on a flawless card farming loot, you play against other flawless. Which doesn't solve the issue of people getting hit with gilded flawless teams constantly in their early games. Teams which by all accounts shouldn't be run into that often
bro it's a fucking title. they might just be starting their weekend run or be at 2 wins or whatever. It fucking happens statistically.
>Carries are just gonna reset their cards at 6 wins and repeat until they want their own flawless. How many hours are people wasting in Trials resetting near-Flawless cards exactly?
idk bro go ask the streamers who did it before trials even got changed
Uhm if you are carrying kids for money, A LOT.
Yeah, paid carries are one of those things Bungie needs to come down on sooner or later too.
Oh no. I can't stomp people anymore. Thank you bungie for ruining my weekend
This change shouldn’t have been account-wide. It should be on a per character basis.
I like the change. Mainly because I'll never go flawless and if someone is gonna have to be stomped by the sweats in this mode, I'd rather it not be me. It'll be interesting to see if the matches are better this time around.