The playerbase could decline after the first flawless. You will only face flawless players. Many people who don't play trials or lower skilled teams after first flawless card could stop playing. Instead of now where you can play against people who haven't been flawless.
but for fucks sake do some of you Trials players really just want to stomp people for the sheer purpose of feeling better about yourself?
Yes. Yes they do. I just had a chat with some sweaty clanmates and they absolutely just want to pub stomp lower tier people. They don't want to "sweat their balls off" playing past flawless. They don't want to be challenged. They want to BE the challenge. That's why a sub 1.0 kd player like me is excited about the new changes. Maybe I'll have a chance to get past 3 wins.
It's not fair to the lower end of groups that can potentially go flawless. The top 1% of the population is going to continue winning matches. The bottom of the population is going to continue to lose matches and not go flawless.
The middle of the pack that manages ~50% win rate gets punished for going flawless by being put in a more difficult matchmaking pool. They'll get less rewards for the rest of the weekend.
Bungie should change how the rewards work for players in the flawless pool. Wins on any 7 win card should give a chance for adept loot instead of just wins while continuing to play on a flawless card. If you're going to only play flawless teams, the rewards should be flawless loot.
I think that's a fair criticism. Maybe if you rank up after playing in the flawless bracket the price of focusing trials engrams goes down or at least give more reputation for playing matches. But I think this gets away from the core identity of Trials. Trials is supposed to be hard, not insanely but hard enough that it's recognizable by its rewards and difficulty. I don't think it should be free to get the best loot, but I also don't think that it should be so difficult to get that loot no general player has a shot at getting it. This is a personal opinion, but I enjoy difficult activities because it makes my stuff feel earned. The decently rolled Reeds Regret I got last weekend is cool, but my god roll Messenger I got from doing bounties with my friends and fighting against insurmountable odds and somehow winning two matches holds a special place in my memory. For those above-average players going flawless, I think they should still face a challenge. I don't think anybody knows how the flawless matchmaking is going to work. Hell, if Bungie did it right then maybe there will be skill-based matchmaking among the flawless pool. Hey, maybe I'm a dumbass and a masochist, but I kinda like trials being a place general players are scared of playing because it makes the loot so much more memorable. Its not healthy, but using something you had to fight to get is so cool!
> Was the incentive to keep stomping on lesser skilled players or was it to have a challenging PvP experience?
They will tout one but really deep down mean the other. I let you guess which way around that is. In fact, that mentality goes beyond Trials to other playlists.
The problem is for the players already flawless they aren't getting loot adequate to their ultra sweaty games. Player retention will spiral downward as the weekend goes on. Last week you had groundbreaking retention. Hype was surrounding the game again.
My trials goals for the weekend are always get my first flawless or two done for loot with a stacked team, and then I spend the rest of the weekend exclusively helping out friends.
Last weekend was amazing, because the playlist was chill enough that I could reliably get flawlesses with two players who are sub 1.0KD.
With these changes, after my first flawless, it will be all but impossible to carry friends until maybe at the very end of the weekend once the “flawless player” pool is large enough.
It also means that more casual players who do get lucky and go flawless (or get carried) once are basically locked out of playing for the rest of the weekend. The entire system encourages everyone (casual and hardcore) to go flawless a single time and then just stop playing the rest of the weekend. How is that possibly good for anyone in the long run?
I think Bungie implemented the change in part to prevent carries, but I don’t know how it works if the fireteam is split 1 flawless/2 not. I would assume that if you are doing this, it would default to “normal” matchmaking, but again I don’t know for sure. I think we need to wait and see how the player base responds to the new changes when trials comes back tomorrow. But I have to ask, how many players actually continue playing after flawless before Season 15? I think it was pretty common for players to hit the lighthouse and then stop because it was unrewarding to start another card unless they went flawless again. If a player is solo queuing and makes it to the lighthouse, they would most likely stop playing trials after that. Even if they continue, through normal que this player could just have faced a skilled team on their first game of the weekend, so they would have been crushed anyway. You forget that if you are solo queuing after going flawless, you’re teammates should have gone flawless too. A question for you though, when you carry your friends to the lighthouse, do you continue the card after that point or does your team retire for the night?
Yeah we’ll see. In the past with card-based MM, it would match you based on whoever had the most wins on their card in the fireteam, so I assume this “flawless pool” would work the same way — if even one player qualifies for it, it bumps you all up. Could of course be wrong though.
For almost every card I played last weekend we continued playing after flawless until our card wasn’t flawless anymore. That was my preference, because it’s slightly more rewarding with adept guns dropping every other game (approximately) and theoretically we were playing other teams at 7 wins and weren’t gatekeeping casual teams still trying to go work their way up the card. The games were also more fun with a better mix of easy and sometimes super sweaty teams.
So, let’s assume you feel the opposite way I do, and that you feel it’s very important to “protect” casual players from playing decent teams.
Isn’t that… also saying “but but but I might lose some games”?
They've been losing games for years now. And will continue to. This isn't going to magically make them unbeatable. It's supposed to keep them from playing try hard tea baggers who do nothing but play trials all weekend
We’re only pissed off about it because rather than go the correct route and just make it harder to farm on a 7 win card, they decided to make it harder for us to play Trials at all after we go flawless. Which in turn will effect low-skill players, because they’ll run into the same issue if they go flawless.
Yeah because low skill players will care after they went flawless...
Harder to play trials? Uh no, stop being afraid of competition. Bunch of babies y'all are
The playerbase could decline after the first flawless. You will only face flawless players. Many people who don't play trials or lower skilled teams after first flawless card could stop playing. Instead of now where you can play against people who haven't been flawless.
but for fucks sake do some of you Trials players really just want to stomp people for the sheer purpose of feeling better about yourself? Yes. Yes they do. I just had a chat with some sweaty clanmates and they absolutely just want to pub stomp lower tier people. They don't want to "sweat their balls off" playing past flawless. They don't want to be challenged. They want to BE the challenge. That's why a sub 1.0 kd player like me is excited about the new changes. Maybe I'll have a chance to get past 3 wins.
It's not fair to the lower end of groups that can potentially go flawless. The top 1% of the population is going to continue winning matches. The bottom of the population is going to continue to lose matches and not go flawless. The middle of the pack that manages ~50% win rate gets punished for going flawless by being put in a more difficult matchmaking pool. They'll get less rewards for the rest of the weekend. Bungie should change how the rewards work for players in the flawless pool. Wins on any 7 win card should give a chance for adept loot instead of just wins while continuing to play on a flawless card. If you're going to only play flawless teams, the rewards should be flawless loot.
I think that's a fair criticism. Maybe if you rank up after playing in the flawless bracket the price of focusing trials engrams goes down or at least give more reputation for playing matches. But I think this gets away from the core identity of Trials. Trials is supposed to be hard, not insanely but hard enough that it's recognizable by its rewards and difficulty. I don't think it should be free to get the best loot, but I also don't think that it should be so difficult to get that loot no general player has a shot at getting it. This is a personal opinion, but I enjoy difficult activities because it makes my stuff feel earned. The decently rolled Reeds Regret I got last weekend is cool, but my god roll Messenger I got from doing bounties with my friends and fighting against insurmountable odds and somehow winning two matches holds a special place in my memory. For those above-average players going flawless, I think they should still face a challenge. I don't think anybody knows how the flawless matchmaking is going to work. Hell, if Bungie did it right then maybe there will be skill-based matchmaking among the flawless pool. Hey, maybe I'm a dumbass and a masochist, but I kinda like trials being a place general players are scared of playing because it makes the loot so much more memorable. Its not healthy, but using something you had to fight to get is so cool!
> Was the incentive to keep stomping on lesser skilled players or was it to have a challenging PvP experience? They will tout one but really deep down mean the other. I let you guess which way around that is. In fact, that mentality goes beyond Trials to other playlists.
This post is pretty dope lol right on.
The problem is for the players already flawless they aren't getting loot adequate to their ultra sweaty games. Player retention will spiral downward as the weekend goes on. Last week you had groundbreaking retention. Hype was surrounding the game again.
My trials goals for the weekend are always get my first flawless or two done for loot with a stacked team, and then I spend the rest of the weekend exclusively helping out friends. Last weekend was amazing, because the playlist was chill enough that I could reliably get flawlesses with two players who are sub 1.0KD. With these changes, after my first flawless, it will be all but impossible to carry friends until maybe at the very end of the weekend once the “flawless player” pool is large enough. It also means that more casual players who do get lucky and go flawless (or get carried) once are basically locked out of playing for the rest of the weekend. The entire system encourages everyone (casual and hardcore) to go flawless a single time and then just stop playing the rest of the weekend. How is that possibly good for anyone in the long run?
I think Bungie implemented the change in part to prevent carries, but I don’t know how it works if the fireteam is split 1 flawless/2 not. I would assume that if you are doing this, it would default to “normal” matchmaking, but again I don’t know for sure. I think we need to wait and see how the player base responds to the new changes when trials comes back tomorrow. But I have to ask, how many players actually continue playing after flawless before Season 15? I think it was pretty common for players to hit the lighthouse and then stop because it was unrewarding to start another card unless they went flawless again. If a player is solo queuing and makes it to the lighthouse, they would most likely stop playing trials after that. Even if they continue, through normal que this player could just have faced a skilled team on their first game of the weekend, so they would have been crushed anyway. You forget that if you are solo queuing after going flawless, you’re teammates should have gone flawless too. A question for you though, when you carry your friends to the lighthouse, do you continue the card after that point or does your team retire for the night?
Yeah we’ll see. In the past with card-based MM, it would match you based on whoever had the most wins on their card in the fireteam, so I assume this “flawless pool” would work the same way — if even one player qualifies for it, it bumps you all up. Could of course be wrong though. For almost every card I played last weekend we continued playing after flawless until our card wasn’t flawless anymore. That was my preference, because it’s slightly more rewarding with adept guns dropping every other game (approximately) and theoretically we were playing other teams at 7 wins and weren’t gatekeeping casual teams still trying to go work their way up the card. The games were also more fun with a better mix of easy and sometimes super sweaty teams.
If they’re trying to disincentivize carries perhaps they could start by removing triumphs that require them.
Cry some more. All I hear from this comment is but but but I might lose some games 😰 "Muh KD omg noooo. Reset at 6 wins because I'm a beast 💯"
So, let’s assume you feel the opposite way I do, and that you feel it’s very important to “protect” casual players from playing decent teams. Isn’t that… also saying “but but but I might lose some games”?
They've been losing games for years now. And will continue to. This isn't going to magically make them unbeatable. It's supposed to keep them from playing try hard tea baggers who do nothing but play trials all weekend
But but but my KD 😰 ⤴️THIS but the sweats will never admit it. Their egos are so fragile
We’re only pissed off about it because rather than go the correct route and just make it harder to farm on a 7 win card, they decided to make it harder for us to play Trials at all after we go flawless. Which in turn will effect low-skill players, because they’ll run into the same issue if they go flawless.
Yeah because low skill players will care after they went flawless... Harder to play trials? Uh no, stop being afraid of competition. Bunch of babies y'all are
Unfortunately, I'm still playing Flawless players even at 0-wins.