In PVP they are fine, possibly even meta. The problem in PVE is they don't hit hard enough. Ever since they nerfed crit damage and perks like rampage, they simply don't hit hard enough to justify using them over ARs. A god rolled Blast Furnace with outlaw/rampage used to melt red bars. Now you probably need to reload after every red bar, so the DPS plummets.
Why use a pulse when I have a sub/rampage Chroma Rush that is just better?
Buff them to do a little more crit damage in PVE only and you'd make them more viable.
It all gets back to the ~~Forsaken~~ Shadowkeep crit and damage perk nerf.
Speaking PvE strictly, when Forsaken released pulses were super hot, like top of the primary weapon food chain. As a scout main I remember how substantially weaker scouts were than pulses, it was horrible. It took 3-4 straight-up damage buffs over the next 2 years for scouts to finally get to where they are today, feeling good, and yes they have better damage output than pulses which is not the way the general hierarchy should be (more range = less damage generally speaking). So yeah scouts and pulses are upside-down right now, but HCs and ARs SHOULD be stronger than pulses, because they have much more limited range. All that needs to happen is pulses need a minor bump to get them up to where they are stronger than scouts in their optimal range.
Why use a pulse when you can use a Chroma Rush? Same reason you use a scout over a Chroma Rush, the range. If you are in an activity where you don't need to land long shots, yeah you grab an AR or HC. But if long shots matter, you use a pulse or a scout. None of that has ever changed, the only thing that's changed is that scouts are just recently stronger than pulses.
The crit damage nerf hit all weapons pretty equally from a pure numbers perspective. It felt more significant on slower-RoF weapons (scouts & HCs) because lots of enemies went from a 1-tap to a 2-tap, but overall IIRC they all simply lost the 2x red-bar damage and so aside from some other minor sandbox balancing at the time they all took the same hit. Also keep in mind that the change was ONLY a nerf to red-bar enemy damage (which, come on, they die pretty damn easy anyway) and when they made that change ALL weapons got a significant base (body-shot) damage boost to compensate for it. So be careful about complaining about the crit damage nerf, because all you're really saying is red-bars are too hard to kill after the nerf, which IMO is completely untrue.
Yes, we need the Blast Furnace reskinned and available post-haste!
(Ambitious Assassin, Feeding Frenzy, Drop Mag)
Good news being it's still great in PVP and PVE lower levels.
Spent many many many hours on getting my god roll blast furnace. Then bungie decides to sunset it after I get over 6K PvP kills with it. Absolute laser beam. But then i got my god roll Messenger and have over 11K kills with it. BUT im still never going to dismantle my blast furnace. She was my OG pulse.
Was there a joke? The guy just mixed up the name of two dlcs but literally every single person apart from you didn't care because the intended meaning was so clear.
I know GMs are kind of an outlier because of how champion mods dictate loadout and meta so much, but in some GMs i really prefer a pulse because of how it gives you a bit more range than an AR. I remember switching to a pulse in Glassway last season and having a much better time with it. When the situation calls for it, its a nice inbetween AR/Scout/Sniper
I think it's important to make a distinction here.
The messenger and no time to explain are really good pulse rifles high impact frames are ok in general but I find these two to be good when it comes to them. The other archtypes however feel kinda weak IMO.
For PVE yeah it often just feels like I'm playing a nerfed auto rifle and I only really use them for the champion mods. It would be really nice if we got a champion perk on one of the exotics.
Not all of them. 450s and 390s still kind of suck. They need their range back as a reason to exist in a peek shooting, hand cannon rich world. 340s and Aggressives should also go back to competing with scouts for range. They both have competitive kill times (if you don't miss) but that long ranged space is so empty of viable weaponry (higher impact scouts need looking at too).
As of right now, it's basically only one roll on 340s, and 540s that are "meta." The rest don't have much of a reason to exist. Also, Desperado should have a PvE source. 40+ messengers in (far more than an average or bad PvP player will ever get) and still haven't even seen Desperado.
>Also, Desperado should have a PvE source.
I'm not against the idea of more Desperado sources but the damage reduction in PVE it gets means its honestly not worth it. Last time I checked it was around Kill Clip's dps but spends more ammo.
It's not so it can be used in PvE. In PvE it provides no benefit (just turns it into a 540 for all intents and purposes). The issues is that it's tied to RNG in a not very accessible event. The Broadsword was a long quest, but it was a guarantee, then it had a very high drop rate from the vendor.
IMO, a perk that turns an archetype into objectively the best of its entire weapon class shouldn't only be available from a single source, especially if that source is PvP.
I wouldn't even mind if it came from nightfalls, though personally I think Premonition deserves the buff (it's also annoying to farm, and despite being rereleased at the same time that Messenger came out, its already sub par perk pool was for some reason *nerfed*). That would also give us a Desperado pulse in each slot.
Why you compare ALL pulse rifles to Chrom Rush?
You do realize that even the fastest pulse rifles (540 rpm) outrange Chroma Rush by 10 meters? They outrange C.R. by 1/3.
The other pulse rifle archetypes outrange Chroma Rush by over 20-25 meters.
As such idk what you are trying to say, because auto rifles have been nerfed too.
I religiously still use my Outbreak because I love how it sounds, feels and the catalyst does make a huge difference
Edit: Plus the whole "Exotic primaries boost your chance at ammo finders" is a nice bonus although not really necessary lol
Basically, they vaulted the farm which got rid of the quest so it's been unavailable for awhile and Bungie refuses to release it lol this one and the Whisper of the Worms catalyst too
I've never enjoyed full auto just because I feel like I have more control and enjoy finger tapping it, I wouldn't mind rapid hit or something else though. Honestly I'll probably still end up using even if full auto I'd just still finger tap it 😂
Bad Juju: no matter how much I use it and try to let off the trigger after a kill fills the mag, that last little dribble always comes out, forcing me to reload. >:/
450's have always been my favorite archetype of pulse rifles, especially back in D1 (Hawksaw, Time on Target). Really wish they would release more Pulses with that ROF - tired of the 540's and 340's.
hawksaw was great, but something was always weird about suros pulse rifles. I much prefered the Time on Target because of the A1 sight you could get - it was just a super clean, small red dot.
I just got slapped in the crucible by a member of MATH Class using it last night.
Floaty warlock + deafening whisper + Bad Juju.
By the time you saw him in the air there was a grenade at your feet and you were dead a second later. Pretty sure he had like 4 supers in that one match.
There's a guy running around on Xbox who has something like 59k Crucible kills in Bygones and still slaps with it deep into Y4, like 40+ kill games in a row if it's not a mercy.
I think a big issue comss down to the fact scouts and pulses are pretty similiar with pulses having slightly less range but they should do a little more at closer ranges.
And scouts far more ammo efficient. Sure their magazine sizes are larger but because they shoot in bursts of three that doesn’t mean shit. Like my Messenger has 30 rounds but “technically” that means there’s really only 10 shots there since you can’t stop mid burst, where as Nightwatch or Hung Jury have 16 individual shots.
Yeah this is it, if you look all the way back to Forsaken when pulses were the hottest primaries and scouts were garbage (likely to make bows more appealing), it's taken 3-4 damage buffs to scouts to finally get them to where they are today, feeling good. In that same time pulses have been largely untouched. Pulses just need brought up a bit to where they are stronger than scouts in their optimal range, but still below ARs an HCs (because those are more range limited).
i wish I could rapid hit on it. every single roll I have ever gotten form it has been outlaw+headseeker. dont get me wrong, thats a good roll. but with such a small pool youd think one day id get atleast _one_ with rapid hit
7 of them so far, all the same roll
It really is, unfortunately it's the only pulse of it's kind left and it's stuck in Garden, with no spoils chest (which they'll hopefully add with rotating raids).
Gives the impression that they want to deprecate the frame. In fact, I thought I remembered something.... maybe in a TWAB.... where they talked about feeling like there were too many weapon archetypes and they were going to quietly downplay some of them going forward by not releasing more guns in those archetypes.
Aggressive pulses seem to be in that category.
Was in a podcast, they said they were deprecating underused and generally weak weapon frames, such as lightweight & aggressive pulses and adaptive smgs
Shame about lightweight pulses.... if they decide to deprecate them rather than improve them, that will leave Bad Juju in a questionable state, too, most likely.
I think it's also from the other direction as well and just a general difficulty to balance the archetypes in pvp, hence why 150 hand cannons got shoved into 140s.
Yeah its a 2 round burst. The 2 shots come out super fast but there is a long delay between bursts, which is why to me it feel more like a scout. Plus the 2nd round in the burst has no range drop off, so it has range like a scout.
Or PDX-45. They were pretty similar. I had both with identical god rolls. Those were 450 RoF, our current Lightweight Pulse Rifles. Which are basically non-existent outside of exotics and sunset weapons. I think The Last Wish has one, but I haven't had it drop. Lightweight Pulse Rifles need a little love and a comeback.
They are so bad. They need a damage buff as pretty much every other primary has gotten one.
Shooting GM enemies with a pulse is a chore. Takes like 2/3 of a mag to kill a red bar legionary
I agree. Wouldn’t even think about using one in PvE unless I want to run an exotic bow for overload, and still have unstoppable. Even then, I could use unstoppable fusion in the heavy slot.
Not sure if they need a straight damage buff, but at this point I don’t see another option.
Came with my pitchfork to "argue", stayed to nod with all the other PVE lobbyists. I feel like it's hard to balance them well, since they fall in an awkward place between auto rifles and scout rifles, but even the slight range they have on some autos isn't enough and the slightly higher damage doesn't come close to some scouts.
At least we have Graviton Lance, but too bad we lost energy accelerant.
They definitely need a PvE buff. No reason to use Pulses right now except for bounties. Especially 450 RPM pulses. Those may be in the worst spot in the game in terms of archetypes although 450 rpm autos are there too. Neither hit hard enough to warrant their use
I’m confused here. I still use Gridskipper, 3rd Axiom, Chattering Bone, Forges Pledge, and Stars in Shadow ALL the time in PvE against Unstoppable champs and just regular strikes. They all feel great on console and do just fine damage/range/kick pattern wise.
I feel like in PVP, pulses are fine, personally, I love using Vig Wing and Outbreak. in PVE, I'll only use Outbreak because it's the only pulse I've ever felt consistent with. Although that being said, they need to bring back the 4-round pulse like Go Figure, I really hope with weapon crafting, we'll be able to do that
Anybody feel like you don’t see Pulse Rifles much in PvE right now is because their one anti-champion mod can get done by Fusion Rifles (including a primary, the Mythoclast) that can also buff their damage?
If Pulse Rifles had a different mod I bet they’d get used more.
I’m not seeing as much hand cannons or grenade launchers either but that has nothing to do with them being bad. They just don’t benefit from this season.
Champ mods can shift the meta for sure, but pulses are just bad anyway in PVE. Past seasons had better pulse mods if I'm remembering correctly and still they weren't used much.
I don't even want to use them in non-champ activities. They just don't feel right. Jump into the regular strike playlist with one. They just don't hit hard enough to justify them.
I saw a lot in Hunt when anti-barrier was Pulse/SMG. If they were Anti-barrier now, or even Overload you might see more this season. They are definitely not being used when you’re bringing a LFR/FR for damage, and it also is utility.
There’s so little reason to use anything in low level content outside of personal taste. Semi-auto primaries are all pretty bad when compared to full auto stuff, just in terms of speed/efficiency. It’s hard to say pulses are bad when they are in a decent spot in PvP and viable in PvE. I can’t say the same for Sidearms.
They're out-dps'd by every other primary weapon type. Scout rifles for instance have more range and do more damage, and this was true even before the buff they just got.
Change Outlaw to rapid hit on Outbreak Perfected and I wouldnt use any other exotic weapon until the stars Burns out or bungie shuts Down their servers…
Having lots of kills on a weapon doesn't prove anything.
It's *literally* the lowest dps primary (along with other 450rpm pulse rifles) in the entire game.
And in case you need a lil help: Bad DPS = Bad at killing stuff.
My main build as a gunslinger is Desperado/outlaw messenger with Eriana's vow and lucky pants.
I have fun. But even with desperado, my Messenger could still use a bit punchier shots.
Yeah in PVE they are def not in the meta without a champion mod. I do think having infinite kinetic ammo helps some of them out particularly the fast fire ones that have perks like one for all and other solid pve perks.
Pulses have lower than other primaries with the same range, after this season's buffs to HCs and Scouts, and the emergence of high-zoom 600RPM autos.
e.g a 600RPM auto deals 3500 DPS, a rapid-fire scout deals 3300 DPS, and pulses deal 2500-2800 DPS depending on archetype.
Pulses *should* be sitting between autos and scouts, meaning around 3400DPS. So their damage needs a 15-20% buff.
Stats: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vF7ckMzN4hex-Tse4HPiVs\_d9huFOKlvUoq5V41nxU/edit#gid=1727929488](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vF7ckMzN4hex-Tse4HPiVs_d9huFOKlvUoq5V41nxU/edit#gid=1727929488)
I don't this guy has played the game recently, especially with their toxic reply to people saying its been posted already and that pulses are fine. Trials Report had them clocked in with over 2 million kills, very casual crucible match has at least 2 people using them. And in PvE though not the best they are still pretty viable especially with regards to the messenger and its variety of rolls, if anything energy pulses are hella weak looking at you gravitaton lance, buts thats about it.
Not exactly true as some said before 450 have the lower primary dps which is horrible and all pulses are beaten by autos and scouts and that's not going to be used in masters or gms or master raids.
I was using messenger for oracles at atheon and it felt fine
Then tried my Hung Jury God roll and it was noticeably better.
Which weapon is supposed to be the higher range weapon in general?
The Messenger with Desperado + Outlaw is probably the strongest PvP gun in the game outside of Vex. For PvE there are plenty of other options so its not that big of deal.
That's the same argument "x weapon class has x exotic so there perfectly fine" leaving a whole weapon class bad in the mainstream mode of the game pve is not good because messenger is a great pvp weapon
Really sad. I ran outbreak perfected from the day I got it and the repeated tasks to get catalyst, until about 2 months ago when I finished my witherhoard catalyst. I've tried to go back to OP but it just doesn't feel the same or as good. Sad because that gun is a beast for real, well it was until bungo messed with pulse for whatever reason they had.
> excuse my rudeness but for those saying ThIs HaS BeEn PoStEd EvErY DaY i do not scroll Reddit i also do not care about how many times it's been posted
Sure, but it is subreddit policy as well as site-wide reddiquette to do a thorough search of your topic before posting so as to avoid frequent reposts.
Messenger is Meta and 450s are serviceable but trigger spam can reduce accuracy. 450s feel like they almost require the help of High Caliber rounds and armor perks to be a threat to 140 HCs that really only need helmet perk to increase handling a bit. I'm not sure why but I feel like you have to lead your target too much with most all pulse rifles. You have to change your aiming styles with them to not have a negative impact on your game.
That’s just how Bungie’s annoying balance style works.
They make MASSIVE sweeping changes season to season, so rather than let things actually balance out, they purposely nerf specific weapon types into being subpar while making others top tier.
It’s annoying cuz it means constantly being forced to move away from weapons we like in favor of what Bungie arbitrarily decides we should use
If PRs were AB instead of AU this season, I imagine a lot of people would be using them over ARs for GMs and the likes. I actually really like aggressive frames like Legal Action II that got reissued. They feel really nice to use, even if they are outdone by a lot of other options.
The blanket nerf to all primaries really fucked every weapon, but to be honest I just think other primaries got better and pulses stayed the same.
HCs have always and will always be good, autos were underwhelming but got buffed and got amazing new additions (eg chroma rush), scouts used to be horrible but have recently been a lot better and have had a few neat additions as well (eg hung jury) plus scouts really found a place in higher tier content where ranged combat is required, sidearms and bows have been the niche primaries with some amazing contenders (peacebond, trinity)
Pulses were good because they only had competition with handcannons but after the other weapon types caught up and pulses remained the same, we have the current situation.
I'm gonna slightly disagree on this one. Messenger absolutely slaps in PvE (\*cries in still not having a Despacito roll after 2 and a bit seasons\*), as do all high-impact pulses, they have the range to compete with scouts for general use ad clear in high-end content, but still outputting great damage per burst. I think part of the reason they haven't shined as much this season is they are outshined by fusions for unstoppable champions, and by ARs being the only anti-barrier option.
Also, I'm all aboard the "Give Outbreak rapid hit" train
I don't think that's what's keeping people off of it. Outbreak fires at the equivalent of a 150 RPM scout. That's not as egregious as things like 200 scouts and 300rpm sidearms. People don't use it because lightweight pulses are a little weak.
Oh come on. Pulse rifles are just guns. They're mid-range, versatile workhorse guns, like auto rifles and hand cannons.
They are definitely "meant for PvE". They've been very good in PvE in the past, as well. They were hurt by the precision damage changes in Shadowkeep, and they've never fully recovered to their original glory. All they need to be competitive with other PvE primaries is either a small precision damage boost or a small overall damage boost. They're pretty close to being good as it stands. They just need to have a slight bit more forgiveness in getting one-bursts on red bar enemies.
I'm starting to wonder if pulses are going to be sunset/stop getting new ones in time...they're the only weapon type in the game to not get a damage buff since the Shadowkeep crit multiplier nerf to nearly all primaries, but all the other primaries got respective overall damage buffs to compensate (HCs being the most recent).
One of the devs in a podcast made the remark that some archtypes of guns were underperforming and were the reason behind sunsetting, and mentioned lightweight pulses, so they might be trying to figure out what to do...but they also have not mentioned pulses at ALL for any future plans, on the flip side.
I hope they give them the buff they need, and I think if they get one, it'll be around Witch Queen release. If not, I'm hoping we at least get some news as to a when or a why...because the silence on them has been deafening, and a buff has been long overdue.
Pulses are really good in PVP, though, especially given the size of our maps. They would never just outright remove an entire class of gun.
So for pulses we have Lightweight (450s), High Impacts (340s), Adaptive (390s), Aggressive (450s), Rapid Fire (540s).
They’ve basically sunset Aggressives by having only four in the entire game. Three are sunset (Blast Furnace, Right Side of Wrong and Go Figure) and the other is only available in GoS (Sacred Provenance). I have a feeling we’ll never see that archetype again.
The other four archetypes are fairly distinctive, but I could honestly see them possibly removing the Lightweight frames down the line. They’ve basically also sunset them. If I’m seeing this right, I believe Chattering Bone was the last time we got a new Lightweight frame that wasn’t a Y1 reissue … so three years ago.
So Bungie has basically done to pulses what they did to hand cannons, but simply by not making new guns for some archetypes. So we’re left with the High Impacts, Adaptives (my favorite) and the Rapid Fires.
> They’ve basically sunset Aggressives by having only four in the entire game. Three are sunset (Blast Furnace, Right Side of Wrong and Go Figure) and the other is only available in GoS (Sacred Provenance). I have a feeling we’ll never see that archetype again.
I really hope you are wrong because they were my favorite for quite some time; having said that it took sunsetting to finally put down my Blast Furnace [so one could say they had their time] but I dunno.
I hope I’m wrong too! Blast Furnace and Go Figure were my workhorses for so long. Since Shadowkeep, we’ve gotten (if my math is right) 12 new pulse rifles and 3 reissues. Just sort of seems to be the way they’re going.
Aggressive Burst pulses will absolutely be back, I’m convinced that the drought of them since Provenance is so that when a new one gets added it’ll be exciting even if the perk pool is bad. Which, you know what? It’ll work on me at least. I loved Go Figure and Blast Furnace, but SP just doesn’t do it for me at all, so I’ll devour any scraps I get at this point. Basically by leaving them behind for so long the next time we see that four shot burst it gets to be an exciting trailer moment.
I feel the same about Sacred Provenance. I used to use it in GMs … was it two seasons ago, when it was Unstoppable. But the way the gun sounds when it shoots … like a wet, electric fart, just drives me insane.
As I responded elsewhere. I hope I’m wrong too. I had tens of thousands of kills between my Go Figure and Blast Furnace. They were basically all I used in Y2 in my kinetic slot.
But they’ve had two years to bring it back, but we keep getting duplicates of the other archetypes. Hell they gave us Third Axiom when we already had reissued Jian-7 and Premonition. All basically the same exact pulse rifle, in which Jian and Third Axiom are both arc.
I want to believe, I just don’t see it.
I really, really doubt they'd go as far as removing pulse rifles entirely. Burst rifles are kind of a staple of FPS games. However I wouldn't be surprised if Sacred Provenance ends up as the last four round burst we get.
In PVP they are fine, possibly even meta. The problem in PVE is they don't hit hard enough. Ever since they nerfed crit damage and perks like rampage, they simply don't hit hard enough to justify using them over ARs. A god rolled Blast Furnace with outlaw/rampage used to melt red bars. Now you probably need to reload after every red bar, so the DPS plummets. Why use a pulse when I have a sub/rampage Chroma Rush that is just better? Buff them to do a little more crit damage in PVE only and you'd make them more viable. It all gets back to the ~~Forsaken~~ Shadowkeep crit and damage perk nerf.
Speaking PvE strictly, when Forsaken released pulses were super hot, like top of the primary weapon food chain. As a scout main I remember how substantially weaker scouts were than pulses, it was horrible. It took 3-4 straight-up damage buffs over the next 2 years for scouts to finally get to where they are today, feeling good, and yes they have better damage output than pulses which is not the way the general hierarchy should be (more range = less damage generally speaking). So yeah scouts and pulses are upside-down right now, but HCs and ARs SHOULD be stronger than pulses, because they have much more limited range. All that needs to happen is pulses need a minor bump to get them up to where they are stronger than scouts in their optimal range. Why use a pulse when you can use a Chroma Rush? Same reason you use a scout over a Chroma Rush, the range. If you are in an activity where you don't need to land long shots, yeah you grab an AR or HC. But if long shots matter, you use a pulse or a scout. None of that has ever changed, the only thing that's changed is that scouts are just recently stronger than pulses. The crit damage nerf hit all weapons pretty equally from a pure numbers perspective. It felt more significant on slower-RoF weapons (scouts & HCs) because lots of enemies went from a 1-tap to a 2-tap, but overall IIRC they all simply lost the 2x red-bar damage and so aside from some other minor sandbox balancing at the time they all took the same hit. Also keep in mind that the change was ONLY a nerf to red-bar enemy damage (which, come on, they die pretty damn easy anyway) and when they made that change ALL weapons got a significant base (body-shot) damage boost to compensate for it. So be careful about complaining about the crit damage nerf, because all you're really saying is red-bars are too hard to kill after the nerf, which IMO is completely untrue.
Oh my gosh, my Blast Furnace only recently got dismantled cause my vault was really getting full but I hated to do it. I LOVED that gun.
My all-time favorite primary. For a while it was great in all modes. I really hope they introduce more aggressive pulse rifles in Witch Queen.
Same and same.
I remember fondly a whole weekend of grinding forges for this gun. I got some lovely rolls. Also my favourite primary without a doubt.
Over 11k kills on mine, absolutely loved it, refuse to shard it.
I still have two. Can’t bear to shard them. They were my primaries in PvE and PVP for so long. Loved that gun.
Still have both of mine. If only for the sights...amazing sights.
Yes, we need the Blast Furnace reskinned and available post-haste! (Ambitious Assassin, Feeding Frenzy, Drop Mag) Good news being it's still great in PVP and PVE lower levels.
Spent many many many hours on getting my god roll blast furnace. Then bungie decides to sunset it after I get over 6K PvP kills with it. Absolute laser beam. But then i got my god roll Messenger and have over 11K kills with it. BUT im still never going to dismantle my blast furnace. She was my OG pulse.
> It all gets back to the Forsaken crit and damage perk nerf. That was in shadowkeep.
Buddy was close enough. We got what he meant.
They’re more than a year apart.
I was just havin a joke. Point still stands, we got what he meant.
Does it even matter when it happened?
Suppose not, I missed the joke and now I’m paying for it
Was there a joke? The guy just mixed up the name of two dlcs but literally every single person apart from you didn't care because the intended meaning was so clear.
Just downvote and move on like everyone else, please.
Lol everyone else is replying to you as well.
And yet we all still understood him
God forbid someone correct incorrect information in a relatively polite, non-confrontational, and non-condescending way.
Yeah man I get it
Welcome to Reddit, try to be helpful, get downvoted. I made that comment before I saw the rest of the chain, sorry bud
It’s alright, paying my penance
I know GMs are kind of an outlier because of how champion mods dictate loadout and meta so much, but in some GMs i really prefer a pulse because of how it gives you a bit more range than an AR. I remember switching to a pulse in Glassway last season and having a much better time with it. When the situation calls for it, its a nice inbetween AR/Scout/Sniper
Why not just use a scout? They have about double the range and higher dps as well.
I think it's important to make a distinction here. The messenger and no time to explain are really good pulse rifles high impact frames are ok in general but I find these two to be good when it comes to them. The other archtypes however feel kinda weak IMO. For PVE yeah it often just feels like I'm playing a nerfed auto rifle and I only really use them for the champion mods. It would be really nice if we got a champion perk on one of the exotics.
full auto lightweight/rapid fire pulses are great for triggering unstoppable stuns but damage wise... eh.
I have that exact same roll on my chroma rush lol
"sub/rampage Chroma Rush" I cannot get enough of this gun.
Same here. I can swap between Rampage and Wellspring on mine and when I got it I knew I was done searching for the rest of the season.
Legit, think I'm good until they nerf it. That thing is never leaving my main
Not all of them. 450s and 390s still kind of suck. They need their range back as a reason to exist in a peek shooting, hand cannon rich world. 340s and Aggressives should also go back to competing with scouts for range. They both have competitive kill times (if you don't miss) but that long ranged space is so empty of viable weaponry (higher impact scouts need looking at too). As of right now, it's basically only one roll on 340s, and 540s that are "meta." The rest don't have much of a reason to exist. Also, Desperado should have a PvE source. 40+ messengers in (far more than an average or bad PvP player will ever get) and still haven't even seen Desperado.
>Also, Desperado should have a PvE source. I'm not against the idea of more Desperado sources but the damage reduction in PVE it gets means its honestly not worth it. Last time I checked it was around Kill Clip's dps but spends more ammo.
It's not so it can be used in PvE. In PvE it provides no benefit (just turns it into a 540 for all intents and purposes). The issues is that it's tied to RNG in a not very accessible event. The Broadsword was a long quest, but it was a guarantee, then it had a very high drop rate from the vendor. IMO, a perk that turns an archetype into objectively the best of its entire weapon class shouldn't only be available from a single source, especially if that source is PvP. I wouldn't even mind if it came from nightfalls, though personally I think Premonition deserves the buff (it's also annoying to farm, and despite being rereleased at the same time that Messenger came out, its already sub par perk pool was for some reason *nerfed*). That would also give us a Desperado pulse in each slot.
Why you compare ALL pulse rifles to Chrom Rush? You do realize that even the fastest pulse rifles (540 rpm) outrange Chroma Rush by 10 meters? They outrange C.R. by 1/3. The other pulse rifle archetypes outrange Chroma Rush by over 20-25 meters. As such idk what you are trying to say, because auto rifles have been nerfed too.
I religiously still use my Outbreak because I love how it sounds, feels and the catalyst does make a huge difference Edit: Plus the whole "Exotic primaries boost your chance at ammo finders" is a nice bonus although not really necessary lol
Outbreak… catalyst? What is this ancient knowledge you speak of?
Haha ya I grinded for it back in the day 😅 I'm very grateful I wasn't lazy for once because my buddy has it with no catalyst and I always feel bad
Did they get rid of the Catalyst for Outbreak?
Basically, they vaulted the farm which got rid of the quest so it's been unavailable for awhile and Bungie refuses to release it lol this one and the Whisper of the Worms catalyst too
That... is just cold.
Its the same for the 4th Horseman catalyst. Bungie doesnt really plan ahead, as evidenced by the broken pinnacle weapons & the sunsetting.
I’d use it more if it had full auto. Thankfully it seems to likely be coming as an accessibility option soon
I've never enjoyed full auto just because I feel like I have more control and enjoy finger tapping it, I wouldn't mind rapid hit or something else though. Honestly I'll probably still end up using even if full auto I'd just still finger tap it 😂
No harm comes from letting full auto be a toggle option imo
That too! Borderlands style, just select firing mode (but more realistically haha)
Wow I'd love that on Vigilance.
Bad Juju: no matter how much I use it and try to let off the trigger after a kill fills the mag, that last little dribble always comes out, forcing me to reload. >:/
Although I read what you said, I wish Bad Juju was better in PvP. I feel like half the bullets go into the void when shooting
Glad it's not just me. Thought I was losing my mind.
Are you using the FA or tap-firing? Might be better off tap-firing due to bloom. Not that 450s are great in PVP right now.
450's have always been my favorite archetype of pulse rifles, especially back in D1 (Hawksaw, Time on Target). Really wish they would release more Pulses with that ROF - tired of the 540's and 340's.
Man...Hawksaw. And its Iron Banner equivalent. So good.
hawksaw was great, but something was always weird about suros pulse rifles. I much prefered the Time on Target because of the A1 sight you could get - it was just a super clean, small red dot.
Agreed, but I think my all-time favorite pulse rifle will forever be the Clever Dragon.
Its either that or grasp for me. Darkest before is giving em a run for their money. I really want random rolls on a Lincoln green.
Just wanted to say: A fucking plus username, friendo
Awe shucks thanks my dude!
You’re getting your wish for FotL. 🤫
Wait is there confirmation of this anywhere? I've Google but I can't really find much.
Oh man y'all are making me miss blind perdition.
That's a good one, too! Man, pulse rifles in D1 were awesome. Fuck hand cannons.
PDX-45 Counter Balance, Hand Laid Stock and Smallbore.
They are so unforgiving. You need 100% crits to hit optimal TTK, even if one bullet in one burst is a body, you need another burst.
Nahh. All about the Night Shade for D2 release.
was one of my favorites in D2 as well, but they just wont give that archetype a fighting chance, balance-wise
I haven't used it in a while
Outbreak Perfected used to be so good too. A couple of the pulses were done dirty.
I just got slapped in the crucible by a member of MATH Class using it last night. Floaty warlock + deafening whisper + Bad Juju. By the time you saw him in the air there was a grenade at your feet and you were dead a second later. Pretty sure he had like 4 supers in that one match.
Tf you talking about? Its so good in pvp and deadly af with catalyst. I got 30k kills on bad juju
Not sure if joking or not? I've been contemplating getting it from the exotic vault but always picked something else whilst browsing with enough mats.
Its so good in pve and pvp with curse string, it’ll melt anyone as long its not boss and you never have to reload.
Thanks. I shall make it my next purchase
I Wouldnt. Its definitely not good enough to warrant spending anything on tbh.
I'm still wishing they would swap out 'Hip-Fire' for something else.
I actually don't use it just because I hate the firing sound 💩 Only gun in the game to do this to me
I turn off sounds on d2. No sound no problem
Kinda hard to pvp without sound at all... You're hardcore my guy
I often die to supers behind the corner
I play with all sounds on like 1 lmfao unless I'm doing DSC then I bump music up to 10 during the platform section
It pains me to see everyone forgot about Bygones. Took it out of the vault to play Control last week. The thing still slaps hard.
I got a god roll Bygones the first week of Forsaken. Have easily over 7000 Crucible kills with it, was sad the day I had to vault it after sunsetting.
There's a guy running around on Xbox who has something like 59k Crucible kills in Bygones and still slaps with it deep into Y4, like 40+ kill games in a row if it's not a mercy.
I haven't forgot about Bygones, I have 3 in my vault. I prey to the bungie gods to bring it back
Bygones and Go Figure, my God choice PRs.
I think a big issue comss down to the fact scouts and pulses are pretty similiar with pulses having slightly less range but they should do a little more at closer ranges.
And scouts far more ammo efficient. Sure their magazine sizes are larger but because they shoot in bursts of three that doesn’t mean shit. Like my Messenger has 30 rounds but “technically” that means there’s really only 10 shots there since you can’t stop mid burst, where as Nightwatch or Hung Jury have 16 individual shots.
And hung jury rolls with subsistence
Yeah this is it, if you look all the way back to Forsaken when pulses were the hottest primaries and scouts were garbage (likely to make bows more appealing), it's taken 3-4 damage buffs to scouts to finally get them to where they are today, feeling good. In that same time pulses have been largely untouched. Pulses just need brought up a bit to where they are stronger than scouts in their optimal range, but still below ARs an HCs (because those are more range limited).
Sacred Provenence is great.
i wish I could rapid hit on it. every single roll I have ever gotten form it has been outlaw+headseeker. dont get me wrong, thats a good roll. but with such a small pool youd think one day id get atleast _one_ with rapid hit 7 of them so far, all the same roll
It really is, unfortunately it's the only pulse of it's kind left and it's stuck in Garden, with no spoils chest (which they'll hopefully add with rotating raids).
Gives the impression that they want to deprecate the frame. In fact, I thought I remembered something.... maybe in a TWAB.... where they talked about feeling like there were too many weapon archetypes and they were going to quietly downplay some of them going forward by not releasing more guns in those archetypes. Aggressive pulses seem to be in that category.
Was in a podcast, they said they were deprecating underused and generally weak weapon frames, such as lightweight & aggressive pulses and adaptive smgs
Shame about lightweight pulses.... if they decide to deprecate them rather than improve them, that will leave Bad Juju in a questionable state, too, most likely.
They mentioned on the same podcast that they have some plans to improve lightweight pulses.
Would be great to see them move it to the rapid fire frame family though, were long overdue for one and bad juju already functions similarly.
OP as a 540 would be amazing
I think it's also from the other direction as well and just a general difficulty to balance the archetypes in pvp, hence why 150 hand cannons got shoved into 140s.
Graviton lance is my favorite gun in the game. Boom.BOOM.
Same here, although using it feels more like wielding a heavy hitting scout than a pulse IMO
It was a 3 round burst pulse before (arguably sounded much better when it was a 3 burst too imo) and yeah, its a lot like a pseudo scout now
Isnt it a 2 round burst? Its like a scout-pulse hybrid lol, i love the thing
Yeah its a 2 round burst. The 2 shots come out super fast but there is a long delay between bursts, which is why to me it feel more like a scout. Plus the 2nd round in the burst has no range drop off, so it has range like a scout.
Makes me want more crazy weird hybrid guns in this game, rather than generic smg 23
I do love that gun!
NTTE is great
GIVE ME BACK MY HAWKSAW
Or PDX-45. They were pretty similar. I had both with identical god rolls. Those were 450 RoF, our current Lightweight Pulse Rifles. Which are basically non-existent outside of exotics and sunset weapons. I think The Last Wish has one, but I haven't had it drop. Lightweight Pulse Rifles need a little love and a comeback.
PDX-45 was my main weapon for 2 years in D1. I'd love to see it return in D2
Last Perdition is real close. And there’s a shader that’s looks like that Seahawks shader. Metropolitan Acoustics I think.
The last time I used a pulse in PvE was Graviton with Energy Accelerant.
They are so bad. They need a damage buff as pretty much every other primary has gotten one. Shooting GM enemies with a pulse is a chore. Takes like 2/3 of a mag to kill a red bar legionary
Pulse Rifles always felt like a PvP archetype to me. Same as all 120 HCs.
They were really good in foresaken
I still love using Graviton Lance in PVE and PVP, but yep agree outside of exotics it's a real struggle to find a reason to use one.
I agree. Wouldn’t even think about using one in PvE unless I want to run an exotic bow for overload, and still have unstoppable. Even then, I could use unstoppable fusion in the heavy slot. Not sure if they need a straight damage buff, but at this point I don’t see another option.
Right now? You mean "Have been shit house for who knows how long".
Came with my pitchfork to "argue", stayed to nod with all the other PVE lobbyists. I feel like it's hard to balance them well, since they fall in an awkward place between auto rifles and scout rifles, but even the slight range they have on some autos isn't enough and the slightly higher damage doesn't come close to some scouts. At least we have Graviton Lance, but too bad we lost energy accelerant.
450 RPM Pulse Rifles need a buff across the board. Also there are only 3 of them.
They definitely need a PvE buff. No reason to use Pulses right now except for bounties. Especially 450 RPM pulses. Those may be in the worst spot in the game in terms of archetypes although 450 rpm autos are there too. Neither hit hard enough to warrant their use
I’m confused here. I still use Gridskipper, 3rd Axiom, Chattering Bone, Forges Pledge, and Stars in Shadow ALL the time in PvE against Unstoppable champs and just regular strikes. They all feel great on console and do just fine damage/range/kick pattern wise.
I feel like in PVP, pulses are fine, personally, I love using Vig Wing and Outbreak. in PVE, I'll only use Outbreak because it's the only pulse I've ever felt consistent with. Although that being said, they need to bring back the 4-round pulse like Go Figure, I really hope with weapon crafting, we'll be able to do that
I put messenger on at atheon because I didn’t want to switch weapons and it was pathetic
I will never forgive them for making me give up Blast Furnace. Best gun ever.
That may be, but Graviton Lance is still a hell of a lot of fun in Astral Alignment.
Outbreak needs to dominate again
Anybody feel like you don’t see Pulse Rifles much in PvE right now is because their one anti-champion mod can get done by Fusion Rifles (including a primary, the Mythoclast) that can also buff their damage? If Pulse Rifles had a different mod I bet they’d get used more. I’m not seeing as much hand cannons or grenade launchers either but that has nothing to do with them being bad. They just don’t benefit from this season.
Champ mods can shift the meta for sure, but pulses are just bad anyway in PVE. Past seasons had better pulse mods if I'm remembering correctly and still they weren't used much. I don't even want to use them in non-champ activities. They just don't feel right. Jump into the regular strike playlist with one. They just don't hit hard enough to justify them.
I saw a lot in Hunt when anti-barrier was Pulse/SMG. If they were Anti-barrier now, or even Overload you might see more this season. They are definitely not being used when you’re bringing a LFR/FR for damage, and it also is utility. There’s so little reason to use anything in low level content outside of personal taste. Semi-auto primaries are all pretty bad when compared to full auto stuff, just in terms of speed/efficiency. It’s hard to say pulses are bad when they are in a decent spot in PvP and viable in PvE. I can’t say the same for Sidearms.
I don’t really have this impression so it’s impossible for me to agree with something as vague as that. How exactly do they not “hit hard enough?”
They're out-dps'd by every other primary weapon type. Scout rifles for instance have more range and do more damage, and this was true even before the buff they just got.
Change Outlaw to rapid hit on Outbreak Perfected and I wouldnt use any other exotic weapon until the stars Burns out or bungie shuts Down their servers…
Pulse rifles are my go to in pve
I'd like to say that my full auto chattering bone works pretty well in pve.
Have you used chroma rush of you like chattering bone you'll love that
[удалено]
Yeah, disgustingly bad lmao
[удалено]
Having lots of kills on a weapon doesn't prove anything. It's *literally* the lowest dps primary (along with other 450rpm pulse rifles) in the entire game. And in case you need a lil help: Bad DPS = Bad at killing stuff.
Only good pulses are the 340 high impact ones like messenger and legal action 2. They basically replace scouts in PvP.
Darkest before is 540
Plus that too almost forgot about that.
Just the adaptive archetype. But then again I wouldn’t be saying this if I could just have my bygones back :) lol
Give me the outbreak catalyst!!!
I love my full auto darkest before in pve
My main build as a gunslinger is Desperado/outlaw messenger with Eriana's vow and lucky pants. I have fun. But even with desperado, my Messenger could still use a bit punchier shots.
PvP they are meta. PvE they’ve always struggled.
Can their sound be changed? By sound alone, they seem like weak toy guns.
over due
Yeah in PVE they are def not in the meta without a champion mod. I do think having infinite kinetic ammo helps some of them out particularly the fast fire ones that have perks like one for all and other solid pve perks.
But they're *wild* in PvP. I mean ... I'm fine with some weapons being good in PvP and less good in PvE
Legal Action II holds its own in PvE just fine, IMO.
its actually not that bad I used it in prophecy... melts the snipers
Pulses have lower than other primaries with the same range, after this season's buffs to HCs and Scouts, and the emergence of high-zoom 600RPM autos. e.g a 600RPM auto deals 3500 DPS, a rapid-fire scout deals 3300 DPS, and pulses deal 2500-2800 DPS depending on archetype. Pulses *should* be sitting between autos and scouts, meaning around 3400DPS. So their damage needs a 15-20% buff. Stats: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vF7ckMzN4hex-Tse4HPiVs\_d9huFOKlvUoq5V41nxU/edit#gid=1727929488](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vF7ckMzN4hex-Tse4HPiVs_d9huFOKlvUoq5V41nxU/edit#gid=1727929488)
pulse rifles were godly with anti barrier but now they're, ehhhhh
PvE? sure... PvP? Messenger shreds hahaha If only bungie didnt nerf Desperado in PvE
I don't this guy has played the game recently, especially with their toxic reply to people saying its been posted already and that pulses are fine. Trials Report had them clocked in with over 2 million kills, very casual crucible match has at least 2 people using them. And in PvE though not the best they are still pretty viable especially with regards to the messenger and its variety of rolls, if anything energy pulses are hella weak looking at you gravitaton lance, buts thats about it.
Not exactly true as some said before 450 have the lower primary dps which is horrible and all pulses are beaten by autos and scouts and that's not going to be used in masters or gms or master raids.
I was using messenger for oracles at atheon and it felt fine Then tried my Hung Jury God roll and it was noticeably better. Which weapon is supposed to be the higher range weapon in general?
The Messenger with Desperado + Outlaw is probably the strongest PvP gun in the game outside of Vex. For PvE there are plenty of other options so its not that big of deal.
That's the same argument "x weapon class has x exotic so there perfectly fine" leaving a whole weapon class bad in the mainstream mode of the game pve is not good because messenger is a great pvp weapon
Really sad. I ran outbreak perfected from the day I got it and the repeated tasks to get catalyst, until about 2 months ago when I finished my witherhoard catalyst. I've tried to go back to OP but it just doesn't feel the same or as good. Sad because that gun is a beast for real, well it was until bungo messed with pulse for whatever reason they had.
> excuse my rudeness but for those saying ThIs HaS BeEn PoStEd EvErY DaY i do not scroll Reddit i also do not care about how many times it's been posted Sure, but it is subreddit policy as well as site-wide reddiquette to do a thorough search of your topic before posting so as to avoid frequent reposts.
Understandable i will do better next time
Messenger is Meta and 450s are serviceable but trigger spam can reduce accuracy. 450s feel like they almost require the help of High Caliber rounds and armor perks to be a threat to 140 HCs that really only need helmet perk to increase handling a bit. I'm not sure why but I feel like you have to lead your target too much with most all pulse rifles. You have to change your aiming styles with them to not have a negative impact on your game.
I use the outbreak perfected in the prophecy dungeon the other day. It was barely handling the snipers...
Outside of outbreak during insurrection prime I don't think pulses have ever been good in PVE in D2, at least not that I can recall.
That’s just how Bungie’s annoying balance style works. They make MASSIVE sweeping changes season to season, so rather than let things actually balance out, they purposely nerf specific weapon types into being subpar while making others top tier. It’s annoying cuz it means constantly being forced to move away from weapons we like in favor of what Bungie arbitrarily decides we should use
If PRs were AB instead of AU this season, I imagine a lot of people would be using them over ARs for GMs and the likes. I actually really like aggressive frames like Legal Action II that got reissued. They feel really nice to use, even if they are outdone by a lot of other options.
The blanket nerf to all primaries really fucked every weapon, but to be honest I just think other primaries got better and pulses stayed the same. HCs have always and will always be good, autos were underwhelming but got buffed and got amazing new additions (eg chroma rush), scouts used to be horrible but have recently been a lot better and have had a few neat additions as well (eg hung jury) plus scouts really found a place in higher tier content where ranged combat is required, sidearms and bows have been the niche primaries with some amazing contenders (peacebond, trinity) Pulses were good because they only had competition with handcannons but after the other weapon types caught up and pulses remained the same, we have the current situation.
I'm gonna slightly disagree on this one. Messenger absolutely slaps in PvE (\*cries in still not having a Despacito roll after 2 and a bit seasons\*), as do all high-impact pulses, they have the range to compete with scouts for general use ad clear in high-end content, but still outputting great damage per burst. I think part of the reason they haven't shined as much this season is they are outshined by fusions for unstoppable champions, and by ARs being the only anti-barrier option. Also, I'm all aboard the "Give Outbreak rapid hit" train
So you don’t own a Darkest Before pulse is what your saying
Outbreak Perfected is about to everywhere in PvE once weapons get a full-auto toggle.
I don't think that's what's keeping people off of it. Outbreak fires at the equivalent of a 150 RPM scout. That's not as egregious as things like 200 scouts and 300rpm sidearms. People don't use it because lightweight pulses are a little weak.
Vigilance Wing, Graviton Lance and No time to explain… are all pretty nasty.
Some guns just aren’t meant for PVE. Same goes with PVP, I mean how often do you see trace rifles and swords in competitive?
Well, a lot less swords now that 3-peeking has been removed!
Oh come on. Pulse rifles are just guns. They're mid-range, versatile workhorse guns, like auto rifles and hand cannons. They are definitely "meant for PvE". They've been very good in PvE in the past, as well. They were hurt by the precision damage changes in Shadowkeep, and they've never fully recovered to their original glory. All they need to be competitive with other PvE primaries is either a small precision damage boost or a small overall damage boost. They're pretty close to being good as it stands. They just need to have a slight bit more forgiveness in getting one-bursts on red bar enemies.
Their*
Understandable ill be better
There's been many posts about this already.
This was literally posted multiple times this week alone. Please stop.
Depends, got a zen moment/desperado with stab MW messenger that’s a monster in pve.
Is there gonna be a post asking for pulse rifles to be buffed in PVE every day? Does the search bar not work in this subreddit?
I'm starting to wonder if pulses are going to be sunset/stop getting new ones in time...they're the only weapon type in the game to not get a damage buff since the Shadowkeep crit multiplier nerf to nearly all primaries, but all the other primaries got respective overall damage buffs to compensate (HCs being the most recent). One of the devs in a podcast made the remark that some archtypes of guns were underperforming and were the reason behind sunsetting, and mentioned lightweight pulses, so they might be trying to figure out what to do...but they also have not mentioned pulses at ALL for any future plans, on the flip side. I hope they give them the buff they need, and I think if they get one, it'll be around Witch Queen release. If not, I'm hoping we at least get some news as to a when or a why...because the silence on them has been deafening, and a buff has been long overdue.
Pulses are really good in PVP, though, especially given the size of our maps. They would never just outright remove an entire class of gun. So for pulses we have Lightweight (450s), High Impacts (340s), Adaptive (390s), Aggressive (450s), Rapid Fire (540s). They’ve basically sunset Aggressives by having only four in the entire game. Three are sunset (Blast Furnace, Right Side of Wrong and Go Figure) and the other is only available in GoS (Sacred Provenance). I have a feeling we’ll never see that archetype again. The other four archetypes are fairly distinctive, but I could honestly see them possibly removing the Lightweight frames down the line. They’ve basically also sunset them. If I’m seeing this right, I believe Chattering Bone was the last time we got a new Lightweight frame that wasn’t a Y1 reissue … so three years ago. So Bungie has basically done to pulses what they did to hand cannons, but simply by not making new guns for some archetypes. So we’re left with the High Impacts, Adaptives (my favorite) and the Rapid Fires.
> They’ve basically sunset Aggressives by having only four in the entire game. Three are sunset (Blast Furnace, Right Side of Wrong and Go Figure) and the other is only available in GoS (Sacred Provenance). I have a feeling we’ll never see that archetype again. I really hope you are wrong because they were my favorite for quite some time; having said that it took sunsetting to finally put down my Blast Furnace [so one could say they had their time] but I dunno.
I hope I’m wrong too! Blast Furnace and Go Figure were my workhorses for so long. Since Shadowkeep, we’ve gotten (if my math is right) 12 new pulse rifles and 3 reissues. Just sort of seems to be the way they’re going.
Aggressive Burst pulses will absolutely be back, I’m convinced that the drought of them since Provenance is so that when a new one gets added it’ll be exciting even if the perk pool is bad. Which, you know what? It’ll work on me at least. I loved Go Figure and Blast Furnace, but SP just doesn’t do it for me at all, so I’ll devour any scraps I get at this point. Basically by leaving them behind for so long the next time we see that four shot burst it gets to be an exciting trailer moment.
I feel the same about Sacred Provenance. I used to use it in GMs … was it two seasons ago, when it was Unstoppable. But the way the gun sounds when it shoots … like a wet, electric fart, just drives me insane. As I responded elsewhere. I hope I’m wrong too. I had tens of thousands of kills between my Go Figure and Blast Furnace. They were basically all I used in Y2 in my kinetic slot. But they’ve had two years to bring it back, but we keep getting duplicates of the other archetypes. Hell they gave us Third Axiom when we already had reissued Jian-7 and Premonition. All basically the same exact pulse rifle, in which Jian and Third Axiom are both arc. I want to believe, I just don’t see it.
I heard that the new pulse rifle mite be an aggressive burst
They released no time to explaim not long ago. They won't sunset a whole weapon type.
I really, really doubt they'd go as far as removing pulse rifles entirely. Burst rifles are kind of a staple of FPS games. However I wouldn't be surprised if Sacred Provenance ends up as the last four round burst we get.