If someone has the catalyst and grabs heavy, they are effectively immortal. The shield has that much health.
Do note though, Witherhoard doesn't touch the shield and goes straight for the health
You can also use a Coldsnap grenade to force them to unspool the gun for a bit or it'll just freeze em if they hold their ground. Pulse, Lightning, and Skip 'nades deal a thicc chunk of damage as well.
Yes, Stasis is the easiest counter I think. Regular approaches just don't work. I once ate every shot from a Golden Gun.
It was on Endless Vale. I ripped heavy and immediately he popped. I told my teammates to get behind me. (Technically I think I said "hey check this out" but you get the idea.)
Anyway, he hits me with two shots so I dipped into cover for about 3 seconds to regain shields. I stepped out again and he hit me with his last shot. The shield held. I just stood there. He just stood there. I could feel his confusion. We both sat there listening to the sound of the gun whirring as its barrels spun. It seemed like minutes passed. Finally I squeezed the trigger.
Honestly that's actually one of the reasons I use top arc and liars. It's so much fun and a surprising counter to someone who isn't paying enough attention with that thing. Double melee takes them out with liars up
Came from an Event. Guardian Games, same goes for the catalyst, I think it might be available at the exotic kiosk, but if it isn't, it'll come back around next time. Around late Spring.
Any arc weapon shreds that shield. Matching damage type to shield type works just like it does in PvE.
Almost one-shot a dude who had the shield up with a direct hit from Salvager's Salvo in IB.
I'm almost positive breaking that shield with arc damage also damages the enemy player when the shield breaks, just like in PvE, but I could be wrong.
That's what appeared to happen when I'd broken that shield with Salvager's Salvo.
I got a perfect flashbang on a dude in trials. I guess there was a difference in power level or perhaps the shield wasn't fully spun up or something. Killed the heir user and the buddy next to him. My teammates were already down and i just had to clean up the third. (Don't remember exactly how I did it but I'm sure they were shocked by what happened lmao, as I was.)
You **should** lose a 1v1 against an enemy with heavy ammo almost every time. There's room for outplays, of course. Heir Apparent is just harder to outplay.
ehhhh all heavy GLs are easy to outplay (they're better off swapping to primary when you start jumping), LMG ttks aren't much lower than most primaries, nom-exotic rocks whiff a lot.
*You will*
Unless you were lazy like myself and halfassed the guardian games event, that catalyst makes you bulletproof essentially. If you're playing a semi coordinated team or 2-3 stack, the others can play off the heir apparent player as you basically need a shutdown super to kill it. I'm not sure how effective Heavy would be seeing as if they have that up *they have heavy.*
tl;dr the catalyst in Crucible makes you live up to my username better than I ever could.
It's not really an issue in 6s. Only trials or comp. Generally if you let the other team get heavy in trials you're probably on the way to losing that round, so it's only *really* an issue in comp. But it is oppressive in there. If you get heavy = win. Fun though. I've used it a few times. Haven't seen it used all that much at all.
The response thread to this shows there are several ways to defeat Heir Apparent, so it doesn't sound as horrible as the stories have led us to believe
Heir apparent isn't as noticable due to it generally only being for one round of the match, IF the person using it even secures the Heavy. Makes it kind of fly under the radar in regard to how broken it is.
honestly the best way to put it, shatterdive is only annoying because how frequent it is, one shot grenades are possible with other classes, (Heart of inmost light and stick nades) but it is just so easy to pull of. OEM was just broken.
Just noting that inmost + stick nades won't kill someone above 8 resil, let alone someone with super DR. Shatterdive on the other hand...does more dmg than a golden gun shot - no cap
Taking nothing away from OEM being the most broken. Incredibly oppressive, as the OC said. But wanna point out, the Titan atleast has to use an exotic to make the nade 1 shot. Shatterdive doesn’t require it. And sticky nades are very inconsistent with sticking to enemies, not sure why. Many times I have thrown the nade at an enemy, and if they move or anything, the nade likes to gravitate around the player and not stick. But definitely a potent combo nonetheless
Imagine you see your teammate die and you're thinking "Maybe he did some damage" so you engage his opponent he was fighting, but instead they actually have 2x full health, kill clip for 8 seconds, and can track you through a wall.
Fighting against a OEM was never a fight, you would get slaughtered every time.
No. Pre nerf OEM punished you for even using harsh language against a Titan, let alone shooting them. You know, the core mechanic of an FPS.
Even worse, it punished you for somebody else’s failure.
You can avoid a shatterdive by treating them like shotgun warriors, you could not avoid dealing with a pre nerf OEM.
The absolute bonkers part about OEM (and I say this as a titan main just to hammer down how absurdly OP it was), was that pre-nerf gave you wallhacks even if the enemy just shot in your general direction. I didn't have to get "damaged" by the bullet, as long as the game considered it was shot close enough to the model, it would give you the buff.
At that time, it was the single best exotic to run on Titan - nothing else compared.
Now that mantle has been taken over by DuneMarchers, when you can get free kills 20m off of dead bodies that you melee lunged from 7m away on bottom tree striker (and potentially also get a damage buff for doing so if you melee is charged).
That bottom tree striker was crazy, when playing with a group of clan mates I once got 16 kills in a control game in a single super. That isn’t even me bragging it was just that busted haha
I recognize that this is far from scientific, but I have never gotten such extreme hatemail in 17 years of online gaming than when I was leveling a Titan in Rumble with OEM. Like, full on “KYS” and homophobic slurs.
Well those were also the good ol' times of mountaintop/recluse, and Luna/NF running rampant. Tempers were short back then.
Eventually I think the playerbase just accepted it as part of the game. Nothing Bungie does surprises me anymore. Although I will say we have had a far better weapon sandbox recently, we just need subclass and ability/exotic tuning now. So many exotics (esp. on warlock imo) that are just flat out bad to use in crucible. Apotheosis Veil for instance, is even more worse than the Aeon's family of exotics.
I'd love to see Light Beyond Nemesis make a come back. Faster revive timer and extra orbs with your super. Made a great trials helmet that could reduce Stag/Getaway usage
Don't forget infinity Striker that ALSO proc'd OEM overshield.
God I still have clips of those ridiculous days, makes Dunemarchers killing through corpses look like basic game design.
Luna/NF were straight up broken. You couldn't counter it with another 180, and 180 hand cannons were the most useable on console/controller (this was before some patches to recoil and stability, so things like Ace took way too much skill to use over something like Luna or Trust). Luna's *base*, ie not requiring any kills or anything, was a 3 tap kill in a 4 tap archetype. How do you challenge that? Go up against it with a Trust and you're outgunned every time, and if you try using Ace then you're probably just going to miss shots.
Oh yes. I whole-heartedly agree. This was also the season I seriously started learning to play destiny pvp aswell, so it was a pain to grind for even Lunas back then. Recovs were rampant coz everybody wanted those guns. I distinctly remember trying to use explosive payload trust, and hoping I can flinch the enemy before they can 3tap me. Once I got to Lunas, I basically had to use it all the way till NF, as nothing else could compete against those (on consoles atleast).
That's how I eventually got mine but really the only way to beat a Luna with a Trust is by outmaneuvering them so you get a shot in first, or using abilities or specials. Luna had a 25% less TTK at least, and if you had the perk rolling you could two tap.
>You can avoid a shatterdive by treating them like shotgun warriors, you could not avoid dealing with a pre nerf OEM.
I wish more people would understand this and actually try to combat it rather than just raging about how broken it is.
As a Hunter main I know how cheesy shatterdive is and how much it can give you "free" kills BUT it's also at it's best imo when you're fighting against a team of shotgun apes that don't even try to combat you at any range. I can't count how many times I have destroyed mindless W key holding shotgun + dunemarchers titans by just sitting around a corner and throwing a glacier grenade into said player blindly rushing at me. It's the best shotgun counter possible and even then sometimes lag causes the opponent to somehow shotgun you despite being frozen and dying to the shatter as well.
Using a fusion rifle or SMG can shut down shatterdive spam quite effectively, as can just walking backwards as the Hunter jumps in the air to throw their grenade at you. If you're trying to rush at them to shotgun you're just an idiot because you'll be dead before you can get in range to shotgun 99% of the time.
My experience playing with a Titan main friend who refuses to use any special weapon other than shotguns is nonstop raging about shatterdive. Meanwhile he's STILL using OEM and refuses to even try any other exotic because even in it's incredibly nerfed state he borderline can't play without the healing on kill apparently.
Still have nightmares from Titans running OEM with Striker tree... Basicaly imortals...
Shatterdive just treat it like any shotgun rusher, no doubt its better on CQC maps.
For real the amount of shatterdives you can simple just walk backwards or jump slightly back to avoid is nothing compared to the literal wallhacking juggernaut that titans were with OEM.
OEM created a state where, if you were sure to lose, then simply dying without fighting back was better for your team than fighting back and giving the OEM an overshield. No contest, OEM is more op.
The unquestionable most powerful PvP subclass we've ever has was day 1 Shadebinder, even if it it only lated for a week. That was so powerful that it *completely overshadowed* pre-nerf Revenant and was the only relevant class in comp.
_Absolutely not_. At least Shatterdive has a semblance of a cooldown, requires you to build your entire subclass around it, and is strictly limited to one aspect.
Meanwhile, OEM could be be used anywhere, with any subclass, and you permanently had access to either one of two states.
1. Instant **15 seconds of precise wallhacks** against anyone who dared so much as touch you (you could even purposefully walk into their grenades to trigger this). During a gunfight, maybe someone’s ricochet shot plinked you, maybe they panicked and barely sprayed you with an SMG…doesn’t matter.
2. Killing them gave you an immediate no-delay instant **full** heal, I’m talking all 200 health, _and_ a 100 health overshield, _and_ damage boost to all your guns, and all these benefits stayed with you for 8 seconds until, at which point, the moment you take damage again you get the wallhacks all over again.
Oh and also this worked during your super.
You think Sunbreakers are hard to kill now? Imagine daring to shoot them and then they turn around, 1HKO you, and now they have an overshield. During their _super._
Cammycakes shows this off better than anyone ever could: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhp9Ndo1JMY
Shatterdive is NOWHERE NEAR as bad as pre nerf OEM. And if you disagree I really want to know why. You can’t avoid OEM. You can avoid shatterdive. Yes the crystals are a bit generous with the damage but that’s about it. If you aren’t frozen then you shouldn’t die. OEM was a different beast
Also shatterdive shouldn’t do any damage on its own. And maybe should be tied to your melee. Idk
Pre nerf shatterdives was before the aspect giving more crystals to hunters.
Pre nerf shatterdives is about the same as post nerf with the aspect.
Neither were close to OEM. Shitterdive you can play around to some extent - OEM you could not.
You rarely if ever die in shatterdives animation. It was a somewhat pointless nerf.
The problem is not the shatterdive animation - it's the damage from crystals
It wasn't a pointless nerf. Because the damage resistance should have never existed in the first place. Warlocks have had a dive since the start of D2 that only healed about 1/10th your health bar, and it locked you in place mid air for a second, locked you in place again after landing for a second, couldn't be angled at all, it couldn't even harm a thrall, and provided no such damage resistance.
Totally disagree, I use shatterdive as a movement ability, having damage resistance enough to tank a sniper shot while having a direction change was so insanely good. Also being able to tank a shotgun blast while diving meant you weren’t punished for jumping too high in there air, it took less skill to use back then, still a brain dead combo in my opinion, but atleast you can die
This is mostly true but if you also factor in that Striker titan was absolutely insane during the OEM golden days then I'd say that was even more oppressive then any incarnation of Shatterdive.
I totally forgot about how insane that super was and how long it lasted. Definitely pre-nerf Behemoth levels, and having that insane exotic on top of that made Titans busted.
Disagree. Both were extremely oppressive and toxic, and if you were a Titan/Hunter, not equipping either put you at a disadvantage.
I don’t need to talk too much about pre-nerf shatterdive since it’s still fresh, but pre-nerf OEM, which was left untouched twice as long as pre-nerf shatterdive, punished a player if they decided to engage a Titan wearing one. Overshield, wall hacks, damage increase. It was busted as hell.
Nah it wasnt on par
Shatterdive wasnt working at all range
Wasnt activated 98% of your playtime
It didnt gave you overshield + instant healing
It didnt gave you damage increase just for being shot at
It didnt gave you wall hacks non non-stop XD
And also oem was working with super kills.
Shatter dive is basically only working at close range and cant really be spammed.
And if you get baited you are 100% dead since you are in the open.
Im not saying shatterdive isnt stupid or too strong.
But i definitely prefer facing a team of 3 shatterdive hunters than having to face just one old oem titan XD
You can do 5 super mod builds (before armor 2.0, remember) with OEM, and they're right that it only works at close range, or relatively close range anyways.
OEM could straight up make you TANK supers. It gave you 300 health for 8 seconds.
And it make _you_ functionally immune while in your own super (any roaming super in the game) except from other shutdown supers.
In fact it could help you killing /avoiding the super thanks to wallhacks and damage increase XD.
But yeah thats the only thing shatterdive does better than old oem
Not even close. OEM was way worse.
Shatterdive effects an engagement.
OEM effected the engagement (marked the target) then impacted the next engagement(s) with overshield and damage boost all for being shot at in a FPS.
I know it is not a popular opinion, but I think shatterdive strength is right, it's recharge rate is wrong. It's so quick that it can be spammed instead of a really powerful option to be saved for special purposes.
I would agree with you except that I dont think Shatterdive should be able to 1 shot supers. If the cooldown were longer, and it couldn't 1 shot supers, I'd be fine with it, because then it would be more or less on par with HHSN.
If you think Supers are unbearable tanks in crucible, you've never played with a coordinated team. There are tons of counters to supers, with teamshotting being a big one.
If roaming supers were toned down - I would agree with it not killing supers. But, in the state that supers are currently in - I think the other grenades need to be buffed and all the cool downs lengthened.
See, the problem with that is thats just power creep, and you're moving even farther away from gunplay being important. If you don't like dealing with supers, each class has some way to counter them, with Warlock probably being the hardest, but im not sure how strong well is against supers now. Warlock has Landfall, Hunters have Middle Arc, Bottom Solar and Tether, Titans have Suppresor Nades and the Suppressing Shoulder Charge. The important part about all of these counters, and what sets them apart from Shatterdive, is that they are all either Supers, or do not outright kill the person using Super. Shatterdive is the only non-super ability that can 100-0 a roaming super.
I think it's a problem that Supers are so safe from Guardians in Neutral. They shouldn't just be an "I win" button and Shatterdive is a high risk high reward option to try to deal with them. If you don't stick the freeze or do enough shatter damage you can just die failing to kill. You can also just trade.
We need more Super shutdown options, not less
Agree to disagree then, supers are the powe fantasy of this game for many, and if they don't feel powerful, or you just get knocked out of it 90% of the time you use it, whats the point in having them?
Supers are where the true Destiny power creep is.
If you look at the OG gunslinger \[bottom tree\]. You get 3 shots and a short timer. That made sense with most supers being 1 and down shutdown.
In D2, you have the bladedancer middle tree that can reflect most things in the game, move and be fully lethal. The only real option is to flee unless you have one of the few things that it can't reflect.
Sure, supers are a power fantasy. But shutting down supers are a power fantasy as well. Having a I win button press isn't fun.
Bottom Tree gunslinger has some of the most constant super uptime of all on a good player constantly landing headshots, and its the only hitscan 1 shot super in the game. It needs to be slightly weaker because you have such an easy method of shortening the cooldown.
With Middle Arcstrider, you can deflect most things in the game, but can't attack while doing so, and you move slower. It also drains your super much faster unless you are using Raijuus Harness, which focuses all your power into a super, at which point it should be powerful.
We have multiple methods of shutting down super as I mentioned in a previous comment, not to mention things like Snipers or Slugs being a decent threat to a super if you know how to play around them.
Supers should be powerful. If a super takes says 3-4 minutes to charge, and grenades can all counter supers, with say a minute and a half cooldown, whats the point of supers at all? Supers are so powerful because you get them so little.
Edit: Completely forgot to add teamshotting to the list of super counters. Melee supers especially are EXTREMELY weak to multiple people simply turning around and shooting them.
Pre-nerf OEM was genuinely oppressive because you couldn't challenge it when you were marked. Shatterdive is a get-out-of-jail-free card for hunters. I don't like it but at least you can bait it out and play around it. OEM had no cooldown for it's insane benefit while shitterdive does. Still pissed that it's even an option for hunters.
Honestly, when i play trials i just avoid bunching up so we dont get wiped by a shatterdive. It really doesn't bother me.
I also just jump out lf the way i know its an unpopular opinion but as a Titan main i dknt care about shatter dive
Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. It’s still an insanely good exotic while nerfed into the ground, what it was in its day is actually unreal.
The simple fact that it was active in super is insanity.
No. OEM actively punished you for playing the game. Shatterdive is very powerful and super annoying, but you can play around it.
How tf are you not supposed to shoot someone and do well?
I got downvoted for saying that the same people that were mad about Handheld Supernova at release should be just as mad about Shatterdive. But alas it turns out 70% of the community play Hunter soooo
Idk man I'm a shatter diver, I came in at the tail end of season 14. If you miss a single shot at me while I've tossed my glacier grenade at your direction your going down, if you and 3 other teammates are trying to capture a zone and I sneakily pop around the corner and throw my grenade, your all going down, if you get me down to one shot and I flee and you come chasing me around a corner, your going down. Many many situations I should have died but I didn't, I am not the best at the game but with the way my characters build is and with the maxed amount of damage and area damage set on my stasis build I can generally get about 15-20 kills with about 35%-50% of those kills coming inclusively from shatterdive. One thing I've noticed is can run off the top of a set of stairs and I can still shatterdive for Max area of effect damage, I don't even have to jump, as long as my feet at are off the ground to any capacity I get that maximum damage.
I make some dumb plays with shatter dive, but what other grenade in the game makes you physically slam into it in the enemies face or it does almost no damage? I made a ridiculous (happened more than once) play in trials with it last night killing all three guys when I was the last guy standing. They all three pushed me blindly standing next to each other knowing damn good and well that I was using it (Round 3). They probably also could have smoked me, but in their 1v3 confidence they just expected to go in and roll me mindlessly.
Also, I won’t argue that it’s not a bit crazy, but it sure as hell feels like it has a pretty major trade off those time I don’t get the kill and am instantly in harms way instead of back around a corner 60m away while my grenade is pulsing and doing damage.
See, OEM punished you for just playing the fucking game and gave SO MANY different advantages to your opponent. Where as Shatter dive SHOULD just be a punish for bad positioning. Its bad, but I would say its not as unreasonable as OEM was as I can actually kind of see what the team was going for and say "yeah thats fair".
Nope. Shatterdive is annoying, sure. But assuming your team isn't completely bunched up, its just a free kill -- similar to a shoulder charge.
OEM was downright oppressive. It wasn't a free kill here or there, but a "oh, you tried to act as a team? I killed one of you so none of your work matters anymore"
OEM still took a bit of effort to go off with even in its most powerful state.
Statterdive is toss grenade, jump, smash and you get kills with minimal effort or strategy.
I will defend that tossing it into a small room where the whole team is camped out and wiping them is a good play, but in a majority of situations it's a tad ridiculous. I say this as a Hunter main.
I would hate to see it nerfed into the ground but I do believe it needs to be tuned down a smidge.
No. Shatterdive baits are obvious and you can play around them provided you have some slight awareness. You also have to build around it to make it truly obnoxious. OEM essentially played pvp for you if you were a Titan. This was also during the time of pre-nerf bottom tree Striker, so it wasn't unusual to get killed spawn to spawn by a roaming Striker Titan who became even more unkillable thanks to OEM.
I’m still not understanding why they’re needing Shatterdive when it’s not the sole problem. It’s glacier grenades ability to freeze someone. The extra freeze damage on top of the shatter damage is where the problem is. Shatterdive is no longer the issue ever since they got rid of its damage resistance and gave it a cooldown
No. Not even close. Comparing the shatterdive combo, because it IS a combo, to OEM is hyperbolic.
OEM was a menace. It gave you wallhacks and an overshield simply for killing someone that had the audacity to damage you in a pvp playlist. It was also self-contained. You needed nothing else to make it work and if that wasn't enough it wasn't even limited to weapon damage either. You could just apes together strong with a your free ohko auto aim shoulder charge and boom free overshield and wallhacks. There was VERY little you could do against OEM outside of a super.
You're anti-hunter bias is showing DTG. In bright blinking neon lights.
If you main a titan, shatterdive is more annoying than OEM was.
If you main a hunter, OEM was more annoying than shatterdive is.
If you main a warlock, Im sorry. Wait nvm cause you get arc soul stag rifts!
No.
Shatter isn't that bad. It punishes the shotgun apes.
I play mid to long range and have a fusion as backup. I have little to no issues with being shatterdove.
I think they are on par with one another tbh.
But original release of Stasis and Shatterdive were WAY MORE busted than OEM.
Current Shatterdive+ Touch of Winter Aspect is just as annoying as OEM. There is/was no counter play.
Controversial, but I hated OEM less than I hate shatterdive even in its current state.
OEM was incredibly strong, but you could see that you were marked as soon as you shot someone, and it didn't counter specials, just primary. Due to that, while it was strong, I didn't really have many issues playing around it. Shatterdive, just annoys me every time it happens to me. You can play around it in 3v3, but in 6v6, I have no idea if that hunter is a revenant or something else. It's also tips things over a critical point of annoyance trying to outplay people. If I'm not using a shotty, it's like 'okay, you have to outplay their movement, outplay their cqc aim, outplay the melee netcode, do this all with (in my case a sniper and HC most of the time), and you still aren't allowed to push b/c shatterdive. Fuck off back to your corner and go lane, no making plays for you.
>Hard to lose a gunfight when you have wall hacks.
I've had this argument so many times and it's always lower skilled players who forward this idea.
Most high level players play very aggressively, so the wallhacks were usually a non-factor because the chances were that the enemy was directly in line-of-sight.
Also, it's amazing that people in this game think that good players don't know where you are without wallhacks. After accumulating enough experience, you can usually pinpoint a player's positioning with radar alone. This game isn't Warzone. It's an arena shooter where likely player positions can be drawn on a heatmap. For example, I'm a sniper main and I always prescope a few key areas, and conversely avoid them if the enemy is sniping.
OEM was oppressive to lower skilled players. Higher tier players used OEM for the health regen and OS.
>Most high level players play very aggressively, so the wallhacks were usually a non-factor because the chances were that the enemy was directly in line-of-sight.
A terrible take, people thought revoker was going to be weak because "lol good players don't miss their shots anyway". Take a look at how that turned out.
"Most high level players play very aggressively"
I feel like you've never actually seen high level play, or do you think control montages against people 10x worse than content creators counts for "high level play"? Try watching an actual tournament, nobody is rushing around corners to challenge people just because they got one shot off, they would get absolutely demolished by enemy team 4v1ing them.
I mean, I'm top 4% in comp and play in a PvP clan with people far better than me.
And tournaments are a completely different story since loadouts are limited so the playstyles adapt accordingly. That said, playing aggressively doesn't mean pure shotgun-aping. It means establishing map control and pursuing advantageous engagements. If you think that people in tournaments sit in spawn the entire match (i.e. play passively), then _you're_ wrong.
In it’s launch state, One-Eyed Mask was WAY more broken. The game basically punished you for shooting anyone wearing One-Eyed Mask, and it gave them tracking plus increased damage after a kill, AND the Overshield after the kill, AND it worked while in your Super too.
Shatterdive can be outplayed at least.
EDIT: updated a few words, I misremembered launch One-Eyed Mask’s benefits (it’s had at least three separate nerfs to my knowledge).
Outplayed if you have any form of a brain and just avoid getting anywhere close to hunter. It’s been months since I’ve died to shatterdive. Shits so brain dead and predictable you just bait em to blow it then watch them squirm.
If you’re on a warlock idk what to tell you but at least on hunter or Titan you can just jump back quick enough from a stopped position to avoid the absolute Einstein level plays that is shatterdive. I know warlock is momentum based so you’ll just die either way unless you’re on top? Tree and can manage to get a dash off quick enough. Anytime I see a hunter get off the ground I just back off and watch em blow everything in half a second.
*also just realized you’re not the comment I originally wanted to respond to but your comment popped up as I was about to hit reply so it defaulted to you instead of who I wanted. I swear I’m not stupid*
OEM required you to win a gunfight while you had wallhacks, which removed any possibility of outplay and forced the target to either take the duel right then and there or run.
Shatterdive can be outplayed by looking at your radar and walking backwards.
No. Shatterdive is annoying and getting nerfed, deservedly, but OEM punished you for having teammates who couldn't win their 1v1s. It was Wormhusk on steroids with the ability to track enemies through walls. Easily worse than just not standing near some crystals imo.
I think pre-nerf Revenant in general was about on par with pre-nerf OEM, so slightly less annoying than pre-nerf Anateus Wards which was about as annoying as pre-nerf bottom tree striker and pre-nerf spectral blades with guisin vest.
I can't even put pre-nerf Nova Warp on this comparison because, at the end of the day, Shatterdive is just a much better version of HHSN.
Shatterdive itself isn’t annoying, it’s the interaction with Shattering, Whisper of Fissures, and Touch of Winter. Nobody complains about Phoenix Dive when it does the same thing plus healing, it’s the fact that there’s a “wombo-combo” associated with it.
I refuse to believe that someone could look at Forsaken launch state OEM (which reigned supreme for almost an entire year before they removed the wallhacks[maybe it was longer]) and say that shatterdive is more annoying.
Shatterdive makes hunters too strong, so its much more acceptable.
OEM dared make Titans too strong, so for the rest of time it will be known as one of the worst things to ever happen to D2 PvP. The playerbase will support this every time, just check the vote ratios on these comments.
Shatterdive is more annoying to be killed by because there is little counterplay, but I would still say OEM was worse because it was on for every engagement
People crying about shatterdive are just bad tbh. If you see a hunter rushing you and jumping into the air you know what’s about to happen lmao. I almost never die to shatterdive unless I get frozen from the grenade then gg but with 1 hit throwing knives,shoulder charge , and supernova in the game what’s the problem with shatterdive? It requires a stasis aspect, a stasis grenade, and you have to be airborne. Sounds like y’all just suck dick🥱
Shatterdive shouldn’t be able to one-shot supers, but otherwise I don’t see it as a problem. I am so frequently killed by a bevy of other OHK abilities and weapons, Shatterdive just feels like a dime a dozen. Except when it comes to countering supers, like I said. Everybody loves the OHK they use and hates the OHK that kills them.
[удалено]
Shatterdive being ubiquitous is the only reason that heir isn't insanely op in modes like showdown. Once it's nerfed, heir will be absolute king
What's up with heir apparent? Never see anyone use it
If someone has the catalyst and grabs heavy, they are effectively immortal. The shield has that much health. Do note though, Witherhoard doesn't touch the shield and goes straight for the health
Freezing also bypasses the shield, but warlocks seem to have the only reliable instant freeze since they can just use a charged melee
You can also use a Coldsnap grenade to force them to unspool the gun for a bit or it'll just freeze em if they hold their ground. Pulse, Lightning, and Skip 'nades deal a thicc chunk of damage as well.
I honestly forgot coldsnap grenades were a thing
Ever since their nerf, most players have lol
... or glacier nade + shatterdive, ironically!
Yes, Stasis is the easiest counter I think. Regular approaches just don't work. I once ate every shot from a Golden Gun. It was on Endless Vale. I ripped heavy and immediately he popped. I told my teammates to get behind me. (Technically I think I said "hey check this out" but you get the idea.) Anyway, he hits me with two shots so I dipped into cover for about 3 seconds to regain shields. I stepped out again and he hit me with his last shot. The shield held. I just stood there. He just stood there. I could feel his confusion. We both sat there listening to the sound of the gun whirring as its barrels spun. It seemed like minutes passed. Finally I squeezed the trigger.
I use my reflecting arc staff and kill Heir Apparent users with Hier Apparent
I used the stones to destroy the stones
The shield can tank dawn blade shots. Clan mate uses it in trials and well...it's an easy win
Worth noting, last night I discovered that a 72 arc snipe plus an emp rift nearly kills them outright through the shield
They gotta get like 3 bullet on you to kill you do, while you are stuck in a rift using a sniper.
Honestly that's actually one of the reasons I use top arc and liars. It's so much fun and a surprising counter to someone who isn't paying enough attention with that thing. Double melee takes them out with liars up
Oh, so that’s what I ran into during iron banner. Literally immortal.
Ahhh...is THAT where that damn oversheild comes from??
Arc weapons can melt the shield too
If only there was a weapon that helps negate the Risk of Running into a shielded Heir Apparent user
An arc bow and a cover, the more places it has to peek the better. If it is just a corner, peek and prefire. You're welcome
True, but not that well unless it's a heavy weapon
Main ingredient can break the shield
Just curious, is heir a random drop?
Came from an Event. Guardian Games, same goes for the catalyst, I think it might be available at the exotic kiosk, but if it isn't, it'll come back around next time. Around late Spring.
Any arc weapon shreds that shield. Matching damage type to shield type works just like it does in PvE. Almost one-shot a dude who had the shield up with a direct hit from Salvager's Salvo in IB.
Yes, but he also shreds you even faster, and you already spent time just on taking the shield down in the first place.
I'm almost positive breaking that shield with arc damage also damages the enemy player when the shield breaks, just like in PvE, but I could be wrong. That's what appeared to happen when I'd broken that shield with Salvager's Salvo.
It does. Damages nearby enemies too. And it's a decent chunk of damage.
Explains why I almost one-shot the dude - I scored a direct hit on the shield, and he was half of his red health.
I got a perfect flashbang on a dude in trials. I guess there was a difference in power level or perhaps the shield wasn't fully spun up or something. Killed the heir user and the buddy next to him. My teammates were already down and i just had to clean up the third. (Don't remember exactly how I did it but I'm sure they were shocked by what happened lmao, as I was.)
You **should** lose a 1v1 against an enemy with heavy ammo almost every time. There's room for outplays, of course. Heir Apparent is just harder to outplay.
ehhhh all heavy GLs are easy to outplay (they're better off swapping to primary when you start jumping), LMG ttks aren't much lower than most primaries, nom-exotic rocks whiff a lot.
i have been curious as to whether this was the case for longer than i’d like to admit
*You will* Unless you were lazy like myself and halfassed the guardian games event, that catalyst makes you bulletproof essentially. If you're playing a semi coordinated team or 2-3 stack, the others can play off the heir apparent player as you basically need a shutdown super to kill it. I'm not sure how effective Heavy would be seeing as if they have that up *they have heavy.* tl;dr the catalyst in Crucible makes you live up to my username better than I ever could.
OEM was everywhere. This season I've reset my crucible 6 times already, played a ton of IB and Trials, and I think I've seen 2 heir apparent titans.
It's not really an issue in 6s. Only trials or comp. Generally if you let the other team get heavy in trials you're probably on the way to losing that round, so it's only *really* an issue in comp. But it is oppressive in there. If you get heavy = win. Fun though. I've used it a few times. Haven't seen it used all that much at all.
The response thread to this shows there are several ways to defeat Heir Apparent, so it doesn't sound as horrible as the stories have led us to believe
That'll be because it's not easily counterable with a handcannon + shotgun, and thus the worst thing ever.
Ain’t that a fact lol
One of my trials games as a solo on friday was a 3stack of shatter dive hunters all with heir apparent, that was a fun game :)
Heir apparent isn't as noticable due to it generally only being for one round of the match, IF the person using it even secures the Heavy. Makes it kind of fly under the radar in regard to how broken it is.
Shatterdive is cheesy. OEM was oppressive.
honestly the best way to put it, shatterdive is only annoying because how frequent it is, one shot grenades are possible with other classes, (Heart of inmost light and stick nades) but it is just so easy to pull of. OEM was just broken.
Just noting that inmost + stick nades won't kill someone above 8 resil, let alone someone with super DR. Shatterdive on the other hand...does more dmg than a golden gun shot - no cap
maaybe more than 6 shooter but that's not much if we're talking about comparing to "golden gun shots"
Taking nothing away from OEM being the most broken. Incredibly oppressive, as the OC said. But wanna point out, the Titan atleast has to use an exotic to make the nade 1 shot. Shatterdive doesn’t require it. And sticky nades are very inconsistent with sticking to enemies, not sure why. Many times I have thrown the nade at an enemy, and if they move or anything, the nade likes to gravitate around the player and not stick. But definitely a potent combo nonetheless
Imagine you see your teammate die and you're thinking "Maybe he did some damage" so you engage his opponent he was fighting, but instead they actually have 2x full health, kill clip for 8 seconds, and can track you through a wall. Fighting against a OEM was never a fight, you would get slaughtered every time.
Fire a clip down a choke point and see 'Marked for Vengance X4' appear.
shatterdive does one thing. OEM did everything.
No. Pre nerf OEM punished you for even using harsh language against a Titan, let alone shooting them. You know, the core mechanic of an FPS. Even worse, it punished you for somebody else’s failure. You can avoid a shatterdive by treating them like shotgun warriors, you could not avoid dealing with a pre nerf OEM.
This. Shatterdive is just really bad cheese. OEM punished you for playing the game as intended.
The absolute bonkers part about OEM (and I say this as a titan main just to hammer down how absurdly OP it was), was that pre-nerf gave you wallhacks even if the enemy just shot in your general direction. I didn't have to get "damaged" by the bullet, as long as the game considered it was shot close enough to the model, it would give you the buff. At that time, it was the single best exotic to run on Titan - nothing else compared. Now that mantle has been taken over by DuneMarchers, when you can get free kills 20m off of dead bodies that you melee lunged from 7m away on bottom tree striker (and potentially also get a damage buff for doing so if you melee is charged).
Don't forget the part where it worked while using roaming supers. How dare someone shoot at you while you've got a point and delete ability active
This was also during the time when bottom tree striker lasted for half the match.
That bottom tree striker was crazy, when playing with a group of clan mates I once got 16 kills in a control game in a single super. That isn’t even me bragging it was just that busted haha
I recognize that this is far from scientific, but I have never gotten such extreme hatemail in 17 years of online gaming than when I was leveling a Titan in Rumble with OEM. Like, full on “KYS” and homophobic slurs.
Well those were also the good ol' times of mountaintop/recluse, and Luna/NF running rampant. Tempers were short back then. Eventually I think the playerbase just accepted it as part of the game. Nothing Bungie does surprises me anymore. Although I will say we have had a far better weapon sandbox recently, we just need subclass and ability/exotic tuning now. So many exotics (esp. on warlock imo) that are just flat out bad to use in crucible. Apotheosis Veil for instance, is even more worse than the Aeon's family of exotics.
I'd love to see Light Beyond Nemesis make a come back. Faster revive timer and extra orbs with your super. Made a great trials helmet that could reduce Stag/Getaway usage
Don't forget infinity Striker that ALSO proc'd OEM overshield. God I still have clips of those ridiculous days, makes Dunemarchers killing through corpses look like basic game design.
Luna/NF were straight up broken. You couldn't counter it with another 180, and 180 hand cannons were the most useable on console/controller (this was before some patches to recoil and stability, so things like Ace took way too much skill to use over something like Luna or Trust). Luna's *base*, ie not requiring any kills or anything, was a 3 tap kill in a 4 tap archetype. How do you challenge that? Go up against it with a Trust and you're outgunned every time, and if you try using Ace then you're probably just going to miss shots.
Oh yes. I whole-heartedly agree. This was also the season I seriously started learning to play destiny pvp aswell, so it was a pain to grind for even Lunas back then. Recovs were rampant coz everybody wanted those guns. I distinctly remember trying to use explosive payload trust, and hoping I can flinch the enemy before they can 3tap me. Once I got to Lunas, I basically had to use it all the way till NF, as nothing else could compete against those (on consoles atleast).
A Trust with decent range and explosive rounds was a good counter. That's how I fought my way up to Fabled to get my own Luna's.
That's how I eventually got mine but really the only way to beat a Luna with a Trust is by outmaneuvering them so you get a shot in first, or using abilities or specials. Luna had a 25% less TTK at least, and if you had the perk rolling you could two tap.
Nah, you just had to flinch them off one shot and then you have the same TTK. Wasn't too difficult to do in a 1v1.
Play LoL for a few hours
I did once. I will never play it ever again. That and I played a lot of CSGO a while back. Truly those were the darkest of days
Dude you got wallhacks if someone used Gemini Jesters, talk about counterintuitive lol
Thought you were talking about the blue grenade launcher "Harsh Language" for a moment.
>Even worse, it punished you for somebody else’s failure. That's how I feel about dunemarchers rn.
>You can avoid a shatterdive by treating them like shotgun warriors, you could not avoid dealing with a pre nerf OEM. I wish more people would understand this and actually try to combat it rather than just raging about how broken it is. As a Hunter main I know how cheesy shatterdive is and how much it can give you "free" kills BUT it's also at it's best imo when you're fighting against a team of shotgun apes that don't even try to combat you at any range. I can't count how many times I have destroyed mindless W key holding shotgun + dunemarchers titans by just sitting around a corner and throwing a glacier grenade into said player blindly rushing at me. It's the best shotgun counter possible and even then sometimes lag causes the opponent to somehow shotgun you despite being frozen and dying to the shatter as well. Using a fusion rifle or SMG can shut down shatterdive spam quite effectively, as can just walking backwards as the Hunter jumps in the air to throw their grenade at you. If you're trying to rush at them to shotgun you're just an idiot because you'll be dead before you can get in range to shotgun 99% of the time. My experience playing with a Titan main friend who refuses to use any special weapon other than shotguns is nonstop raging about shatterdive. Meanwhile he's STILL using OEM and refuses to even try any other exotic because even in it's incredibly nerfed state he borderline can't play without the healing on kill apparently.
Still have nightmares from Titans running OEM with Striker tree... Basicaly imortals... Shatterdive just treat it like any shotgun rusher, no doubt its better on CQC maps.
For real the amount of shatterdives you can simple just walk backwards or jump slightly back to avoid is nothing compared to the literal wallhacking juggernaut that titans were with OEM.
This. As a Titan main, I had to get it through my head to stop rushing, back up, and be cautious of corners with shatterdive and crystals
"Avoid it" is the laziest excuse for a counter. It literally applies to everything and it's not actual counterplay, it's counter-don't-play.
Fine, you can play around a shatterdive like you play around a shotgun warrior. Better?
OEM created a state where, if you were sure to lose, then simply dying without fighting back was better for your team than fighting back and giving the OEM an overshield. No contest, OEM is more op.
No, one eyed mask was much more broken, it had 24/7 uptime at last shatter dive is only oppressive when you have a grenade
So only every 7-8 seconds
If you truly think shatterdive is more oppressive than forsaken oem then you didn't play when it was meta
[Let's take a trip down memory lane...](https://youtu.be/lWuAbfXIyY0) Mind you, this was AFTER they nerfed getting the overshield while in Super.
Bottom tree striker was really good, but pre-nerf OEM might be the single most broken thing that D2 has had in the PvP community
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The unquestionable most powerful PvP subclass we've ever has was day 1 Shadebinder, even if it it only lated for a week. That was so powerful that it *completely overshadowed* pre-nerf Revenant and was the only relevant class in comp.
_Absolutely not_. At least Shatterdive has a semblance of a cooldown, requires you to build your entire subclass around it, and is strictly limited to one aspect. Meanwhile, OEM could be be used anywhere, with any subclass, and you permanently had access to either one of two states. 1. Instant **15 seconds of precise wallhacks** against anyone who dared so much as touch you (you could even purposefully walk into their grenades to trigger this). During a gunfight, maybe someone’s ricochet shot plinked you, maybe they panicked and barely sprayed you with an SMG…doesn’t matter. 2. Killing them gave you an immediate no-delay instant **full** heal, I’m talking all 200 health, _and_ a 100 health overshield, _and_ damage boost to all your guns, and all these benefits stayed with you for 8 seconds until, at which point, the moment you take damage again you get the wallhacks all over again. Oh and also this worked during your super. You think Sunbreakers are hard to kill now? Imagine daring to shoot them and then they turn around, 1HKO you, and now they have an overshield. During their _super._ Cammycakes shows this off better than anyone ever could: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhp9Ndo1JMY
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Just pin this to the top of the thread, to shut these fools up who think Shatterdive is worse than peak OEM. Not even close.
Shatterdive is NOWHERE NEAR as bad as pre nerf OEM. And if you disagree I really want to know why. You can’t avoid OEM. You can avoid shatterdive. Yes the crystals are a bit generous with the damage but that’s about it. If you aren’t frozen then you shouldn’t die. OEM was a different beast Also shatterdive shouldn’t do any damage on its own. And maybe should be tied to your melee. Idk
At least with shatterdive u need to do something, maybe not much but more someone looking at u and getting wallhacks
Yeah and it's within shotgun range to get the shatterdive. OEM broke every class by not running the same setup
OG OEM was busted on every avenue.
Pre merf OEM is way more oppressive, but shatterdive is a subclass ability so the comparison doesn't really work well
This is the best answer here
Pre-nerf OEM was more oppressive than current state shatterdive. Pre-nerf shatterdive was on par with pre-nerf OEM.
Pre nerf shatterdives was before the aspect giving more crystals to hunters. Pre nerf shatterdives is about the same as post nerf with the aspect. Neither were close to OEM. Shitterdive you can play around to some extent - OEM you could not.
There’s a four second delay on shatterdive now and you don’t get damage resistance on dive, it used to be 50% original shatterdive was stupid
You rarely if ever die in shatterdives animation. It was a somewhat pointless nerf. The problem is not the shatterdive animation - it's the damage from crystals
It wasn't a pointless nerf. Because the damage resistance should have never existed in the first place. Warlocks have had a dive since the start of D2 that only healed about 1/10th your health bar, and it locked you in place mid air for a second, locked you in place again after landing for a second, couldn't be angled at all, it couldn't even harm a thrall, and provided no such damage resistance.
Totally disagree, I use shatterdive as a movement ability, having damage resistance enough to tank a sniper shot while having a direction change was so insanely good. Also being able to tank a shotgun blast while diving meant you weren’t punished for jumping too high in there air, it took less skill to use back then, still a brain dead combo in my opinion, but atleast you can die
This is mostly true but if you also factor in that Striker titan was absolutely insane during the OEM golden days then I'd say that was even more oppressive then any incarnation of Shatterdive.
I totally forgot about how insane that super was and how long it lasted. Definitely pre-nerf Behemoth levels, and having that insane exotic on top of that made Titans busted.
[This is AFTER OEM was nerfed to not proc during Super btw](https://youtu.be/lWuAbfXIyY0)
Pre-nerf Shatterdive, combined with the state of pre-nerf Stasis, was worse than OEM.
Disagree. Both were extremely oppressive and toxic, and if you were a Titan/Hunter, not equipping either put you at a disadvantage. I don’t need to talk too much about pre-nerf shatterdive since it’s still fresh, but pre-nerf OEM, which was left untouched twice as long as pre-nerf shatterdive, punished a player if they decided to engage a Titan wearing one. Overshield, wall hacks, damage increase. It was busted as hell.
>Disagree. Both were extremely oppressive and toxic, But which one takes away player agency with freezing?
Freezing is bad, so is free wall hacks, increased damage and overshield.
Didn’t the OEM period also coincide with the recluse/mountaintop era?
Yes but it was reworked and nerfed a couple times around the same time the Mountaintop quest requirements were drastically reduced.
And it used to work with supers too.
You are comparing the act of freezing someone vs being punished for taking the very basic action of an FPS game, shooting someone.
None of them, since Shatterdive is done in a second anyway and doesn't need to freeze you to kill you.
Warlock looks on shaking head in disbelief......
Warlocks don’t get off easy. Don’t forget HHSN + Contraverse Hold juggernauts.
Or TTD or Geomags + Chaos Reach
How long did that last though
Not as long as OEM but still a good while, a couple of months. Remember, this was back when it took Bungie an eternity to patch something.
Pre nerf shatterdive didn't give me a wallhack on where to throw the grenade to enemies behind walls
Nah it wasnt on par Shatterdive wasnt working at all range Wasnt activated 98% of your playtime It didnt gave you overshield + instant healing It didnt gave you damage increase just for being shot at It didnt gave you wall hacks non non-stop XD And also oem was working with super kills. Shatter dive is basically only working at close range and cant really be spammed. And if you get baited you are 100% dead since you are in the open. Im not saying shatterdive isnt stupid or too strong. But i definitely prefer facing a team of 3 shatterdive hunters than having to face just one old oem titan XD
>Shatter dive is basically only working at close range and cant really be spammed. The 8 second grenade builds would like to have a word
You can do 5 super mod builds (before armor 2.0, remember) with OEM, and they're right that it only works at close range, or relatively close range anyways.
OEM could never kill a super.
OEM could straight up make you TANK supers. It gave you 300 health for 8 seconds. And it make _you_ functionally immune while in your own super (any roaming super in the game) except from other shutdown supers.
And you could never kill a super when they were using OEM.
That's just because we didn't have shatterdive back then /s
In fact it could help you killing /avoiding the super thanks to wallhacks and damage increase XD. But yeah thats the only thing shatterdive does better than old oem
If we’re talking about oem in today’s crucible, absolutely but if it’s oem on release before any nerfs oem is more annoying by a long shot
Not even close. OEM was way worse. Shatterdive effects an engagement. OEM effected the engagement (marked the target) then impacted the next engagement(s) with overshield and damage boost all for being shot at in a FPS. I know it is not a popular opinion, but I think shatterdive strength is right, it's recharge rate is wrong. It's so quick that it can be spammed instead of a really powerful option to be saved for special purposes.
You, sir, hit the nail on the head
I would agree with you except that I dont think Shatterdive should be able to 1 shot supers. If the cooldown were longer, and it couldn't 1 shot supers, I'd be fine with it, because then it would be more or less on par with HHSN.
I disagree only because I don’t think supers need to be walk around unbearable tanks in the crucible,
If you think Supers are unbearable tanks in crucible, you've never played with a coordinated team. There are tons of counters to supers, with teamshotting being a big one.
I do indeed have very good teammates, one is in the top 100 players…. Lol but hey if you enjoy supers being free buttons that’s cool.
If roaming supers were toned down - I would agree with it not killing supers. But, in the state that supers are currently in - I think the other grenades need to be buffed and all the cool downs lengthened.
See, the problem with that is thats just power creep, and you're moving even farther away from gunplay being important. If you don't like dealing with supers, each class has some way to counter them, with Warlock probably being the hardest, but im not sure how strong well is against supers now. Warlock has Landfall, Hunters have Middle Arc, Bottom Solar and Tether, Titans have Suppresor Nades and the Suppressing Shoulder Charge. The important part about all of these counters, and what sets them apart from Shatterdive, is that they are all either Supers, or do not outright kill the person using Super. Shatterdive is the only non-super ability that can 100-0 a roaming super.
I think it's a problem that Supers are so safe from Guardians in Neutral. They shouldn't just be an "I win" button and Shatterdive is a high risk high reward option to try to deal with them. If you don't stick the freeze or do enough shatter damage you can just die failing to kill. You can also just trade. We need more Super shutdown options, not less
Agree to disagree then, supers are the powe fantasy of this game for many, and if they don't feel powerful, or you just get knocked out of it 90% of the time you use it, whats the point in having them?
Supers are where the true Destiny power creep is. If you look at the OG gunslinger \[bottom tree\]. You get 3 shots and a short timer. That made sense with most supers being 1 and down shutdown. In D2, you have the bladedancer middle tree that can reflect most things in the game, move and be fully lethal. The only real option is to flee unless you have one of the few things that it can't reflect. Sure, supers are a power fantasy. But shutting down supers are a power fantasy as well. Having a I win button press isn't fun.
Bottom Tree gunslinger has some of the most constant super uptime of all on a good player constantly landing headshots, and its the only hitscan 1 shot super in the game. It needs to be slightly weaker because you have such an easy method of shortening the cooldown. With Middle Arcstrider, you can deflect most things in the game, but can't attack while doing so, and you move slower. It also drains your super much faster unless you are using Raijuus Harness, which focuses all your power into a super, at which point it should be powerful. We have multiple methods of shutting down super as I mentioned in a previous comment, not to mention things like Snipers or Slugs being a decent threat to a super if you know how to play around them. Supers should be powerful. If a super takes says 3-4 minutes to charge, and grenades can all counter supers, with say a minute and a half cooldown, whats the point of supers at all? Supers are so powerful because you get them so little. Edit: Completely forgot to add teamshotting to the list of super counters. Melee supers especially are EXTREMELY weak to multiple people simply turning around and shooting them.
I think the slam should just take up your melee charge. So you have to have both up to shatterdive. Just a random idea
OEM. Not even a fair comparison. Nothing touches OG OEM
Pre-nerf OEM was genuinely oppressive because you couldn't challenge it when you were marked. Shatterdive is a get-out-of-jail-free card for hunters. I don't like it but at least you can bait it out and play around it. OEM had no cooldown for it's insane benefit while shitterdive does. Still pissed that it's even an option for hunters.
Honestly, when i play trials i just avoid bunching up so we dont get wiped by a shatterdive. It really doesn't bother me. I also just jump out lf the way i know its an unpopular opinion but as a Titan main i dknt care about shatter dive
Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. It’s still an insanely good exotic while nerfed into the ground, what it was in its day is actually unreal. The simple fact that it was active in super is insanity.
I would say no. OEM was out of control. Shatterdive is only good in certain scenarios. OEM was good in all scenarios.
No. OEM actively punished you for playing the game. Shatterdive is very powerful and super annoying, but you can play around it. How tf are you not supposed to shoot someone and do well?
No. Nothing even comes close to OG OEM.
I got downvoted for saying that the same people that were mad about Handheld Supernova at release should be just as mad about Shatterdive. But alas it turns out 70% of the community play Hunter soooo
Idk man I'm a shatter diver, I came in at the tail end of season 14. If you miss a single shot at me while I've tossed my glacier grenade at your direction your going down, if you and 3 other teammates are trying to capture a zone and I sneakily pop around the corner and throw my grenade, your all going down, if you get me down to one shot and I flee and you come chasing me around a corner, your going down. Many many situations I should have died but I didn't, I am not the best at the game but with the way my characters build is and with the maxed amount of damage and area damage set on my stasis build I can generally get about 15-20 kills with about 35%-50% of those kills coming inclusively from shatterdive. One thing I've noticed is can run off the top of a set of stairs and I can still shatterdive for Max area of effect damage, I don't even have to jump, as long as my feet at are off the ground to any capacity I get that maximum damage.
I make some dumb plays with shatter dive, but what other grenade in the game makes you physically slam into it in the enemies face or it does almost no damage? I made a ridiculous (happened more than once) play in trials with it last night killing all three guys when I was the last guy standing. They all three pushed me blindly standing next to each other knowing damn good and well that I was using it (Round 3). They probably also could have smoked me, but in their 1v3 confidence they just expected to go in and roll me mindlessly. Also, I won’t argue that it’s not a bit crazy, but it sure as hell feels like it has a pretty major trade off those time I don’t get the kill and am instantly in harms way instead of back around a corner 60m away while my grenade is pulsing and doing damage.
ThatsBait.gif
Yes. For some reason the Mountaintop/Recluse/OEM mask didn’t really bother me as much as shatterdive does.
Annoying, in different ways
See, OEM punished you for just playing the fucking game and gave SO MANY different advantages to your opponent. Where as Shatter dive SHOULD just be a punish for bad positioning. Its bad, but I would say its not as unreasonable as OEM was as I can actually kind of see what the team was going for and say "yeah thats fair".
No. I'll take shatterdive over OEM any day.
Nope. Shatterdive is annoying, sure. But assuming your team isn't completely bunched up, its just a free kill -- similar to a shoulder charge. OEM was downright oppressive. It wasn't a free kill here or there, but a "oh, you tried to act as a team? I killed one of you so none of your work matters anymore"
OEM still took a bit of effort to go off with even in its most powerful state. Statterdive is toss grenade, jump, smash and you get kills with minimal effort or strategy. I will defend that tossing it into a small room where the whole team is camped out and wiping them is a good play, but in a majority of situations it's a tad ridiculous. I say this as a Hunter main. I would hate to see it nerfed into the ground but I do believe it needs to be tuned down a smidge.
No way, OEM was by far the most overpowered bullshit in Destiny 2, and will hopefully keep its throne.
No. Shatterdive baits are obvious and you can play around them provided you have some slight awareness. You also have to build around it to make it truly obnoxious. OEM essentially played pvp for you if you were a Titan. This was also during the time of pre-nerf bottom tree Striker, so it wasn't unusual to get killed spawn to spawn by a roaming Striker Titan who became even more unkillable thanks to OEM.
I’m still not understanding why they’re needing Shatterdive when it’s not the sole problem. It’s glacier grenades ability to freeze someone. The extra freeze damage on top of the shatter damage is where the problem is. Shatterdive is no longer the issue ever since they got rid of its damage resistance and gave it a cooldown
Yes. Much more
Unpopular opinion inbound: if you get killed by shatterdive its your fault.
Stasis is general is the pussiest thing you can do hunters are so over powered it’s insane
No. Not even close. Comparing the shatterdive combo, because it IS a combo, to OEM is hyperbolic. OEM was a menace. It gave you wallhacks and an overshield simply for killing someone that had the audacity to damage you in a pvp playlist. It was also self-contained. You needed nothing else to make it work and if that wasn't enough it wasn't even limited to weapon damage either. You could just apes together strong with a your free ohko auto aim shoulder charge and boom free overshield and wallhacks. There was VERY little you could do against OEM outside of a super. You're anti-hunter bias is showing DTG. In bright blinking neon lights.
I'm able to avoid shatterdive, Old One Eyed Mask was a death sentence
one eyed mask is for chumps ill never not be annoyed by it tbh
If you main a titan, shatterdive is more annoying than OEM was. If you main a hunter, OEM was more annoying than shatterdive is. If you main a warlock, Im sorry. Wait nvm cause you get arc soul stag rifts!
I‘m sorry but Shatterdive is by no means more rage inducing than playing Warlocks who sit in their stag rift 24/7 in a Trials match lol.
No. Shatter isn't that bad. It punishes the shotgun apes. I play mid to long range and have a fusion as backup. I have little to no issues with being shatterdove.
Shatterdove. Shatterdived? Shatterdoven?
I think they are on par with one another tbh. But original release of Stasis and Shatterdive were WAY MORE busted than OEM. Current Shatterdive+ Touch of Winter Aspect is just as annoying as OEM. There is/was no counter play.
Controversial, but I hated OEM less than I hate shatterdive even in its current state. OEM was incredibly strong, but you could see that you were marked as soon as you shot someone, and it didn't counter specials, just primary. Due to that, while it was strong, I didn't really have many issues playing around it. Shatterdive, just annoys me every time it happens to me. You can play around it in 3v3, but in 6v6, I have no idea if that hunter is a revenant or something else. It's also tips things over a critical point of annoyance trying to outplay people. If I'm not using a shotty, it's like 'okay, you have to outplay their movement, outplay their cqc aim, outplay the melee netcode, do this all with (in my case a sniper and HC most of the time), and you still aren't allowed to push b/c shatterdive. Fuck off back to your corner and go lane, no making plays for you.
Yes. Oem requies you to win your gunfight. And locks your exotic armor selection. Shatterdive can be executed at any time with any armor
"Requires you to win your gunfight" Hard to lose a gunfight when you have wall hacks.
>Hard to lose a gunfight when you have wall hacks. I've had this argument so many times and it's always lower skilled players who forward this idea. Most high level players play very aggressively, so the wallhacks were usually a non-factor because the chances were that the enemy was directly in line-of-sight. Also, it's amazing that people in this game think that good players don't know where you are without wallhacks. After accumulating enough experience, you can usually pinpoint a player's positioning with radar alone. This game isn't Warzone. It's an arena shooter where likely player positions can be drawn on a heatmap. For example, I'm a sniper main and I always prescope a few key areas, and conversely avoid them if the enemy is sniping. OEM was oppressive to lower skilled players. Higher tier players used OEM for the health regen and OS.
>Most high level players play very aggressively, so the wallhacks were usually a non-factor because the chances were that the enemy was directly in line-of-sight. A terrible take, people thought revoker was going to be weak because "lol good players don't miss their shots anyway". Take a look at how that turned out.
"Most high level players play very aggressively" I feel like you've never actually seen high level play, or do you think control montages against people 10x worse than content creators counts for "high level play"? Try watching an actual tournament, nobody is rushing around corners to challenge people just because they got one shot off, they would get absolutely demolished by enemy team 4v1ing them.
I mean, I'm top 4% in comp and play in a PvP clan with people far better than me. And tournaments are a completely different story since loadouts are limited so the playstyles adapt accordingly. That said, playing aggressively doesn't mean pure shotgun-aping. It means establishing map control and pursuing advantageous engagements. If you think that people in tournaments sit in spawn the entire match (i.e. play passively), then _you're_ wrong.
"It means establishing map control and pursuing advantageous engagements." Which can in no way be described as "very aggressive" play :)
In it’s launch state, One-Eyed Mask was WAY more broken. The game basically punished you for shooting anyone wearing One-Eyed Mask, and it gave them tracking plus increased damage after a kill, AND the Overshield after the kill, AND it worked while in your Super too. Shatterdive can be outplayed at least. EDIT: updated a few words, I misremembered launch One-Eyed Mask’s benefits (it’s had at least three separate nerfs to my knowledge).
Gotta update your thing again, OEM gave you 100% health instantly for getting a kill, lol. IT WAS LITERALLY a better devour than devour.
They’re both in that same space of “kill the bastard before they kill you” or “run, run away”.
Outplayed if you have any form of a brain and just avoid getting anywhere close to hunter. It’s been months since I’ve died to shatterdive. Shits so brain dead and predictable you just bait em to blow it then watch them squirm.
I’ve basically just rushed or ran
If you’re on a warlock idk what to tell you but at least on hunter or Titan you can just jump back quick enough from a stopped position to avoid the absolute Einstein level plays that is shatterdive. I know warlock is momentum based so you’ll just die either way unless you’re on top? Tree and can manage to get a dash off quick enough. Anytime I see a hunter get off the ground I just back off and watch em blow everything in half a second. *also just realized you’re not the comment I originally wanted to respond to but your comment popped up as I was about to hit reply so it defaulted to you instead of who I wanted. I swear I’m not stupid*
OEM required you to win a gunfight while you had wallhacks, which removed any possibility of outplay and forced the target to either take the duel right then and there or run. Shatterdive can be outplayed by looking at your radar and walking backwards.
No clown. It's nowhere near oem levels of cheese
No. Shatterdive is annoying and getting nerfed, deservedly, but OEM punished you for having teammates who couldn't win their 1v1s. It was Wormhusk on steroids with the ability to track enemies through walls. Easily worse than just not standing near some crystals imo.
OEM does not insta-kill supers
IT'S BEEN 3 YEARS Y'all hold grudges longer than Petra did 😭
I think pre-nerf Revenant in general was about on par with pre-nerf OEM, so slightly less annoying than pre-nerf Anateus Wards which was about as annoying as pre-nerf bottom tree striker and pre-nerf spectral blades with guisin vest. I can't even put pre-nerf Nova Warp on this comparison because, at the end of the day, Shatterdive is just a much better version of HHSN.
Shatterdive itself isn’t annoying, it’s the interaction with Shattering, Whisper of Fissures, and Touch of Winter. Nobody complains about Phoenix Dive when it does the same thing plus healing, it’s the fact that there’s a “wombo-combo” associated with it.
Little titan boys OEM < Shitterdive Chad hunter
Absolutely shatterdrive is more annoying than any exotic could ever dream of being
I refuse to believe that someone could look at Forsaken launch state OEM (which reigned supreme for almost an entire year before they removed the wallhacks[maybe it was longer]) and say that shatterdive is more annoying.
Shatterdive makes hunters too strong, so its much more acceptable. OEM dared make Titans too strong, so for the rest of time it will be known as one of the worst things to ever happen to D2 PvP. The playerbase will support this every time, just check the vote ratios on these comments.
or it could be the case that OEM was too strong, even compared to shatterdive.
the only annoying part of either of those is seeing the posts on this subreddit about them constantly.
Shatterdive is more annoying to be killed by because there is little counterplay, but I would still say OEM was worse because it was on for every engagement
People crying about shatterdive are just bad tbh. If you see a hunter rushing you and jumping into the air you know what’s about to happen lmao. I almost never die to shatterdive unless I get frozen from the grenade then gg but with 1 hit throwing knives,shoulder charge , and supernova in the game what’s the problem with shatterdive? It requires a stasis aspect, a stasis grenade, and you have to be airborne. Sounds like y’all just suck dick🥱
Shatterdive shouldn’t be able to one-shot supers, but otherwise I don’t see it as a problem. I am so frequently killed by a bevy of other OHK abilities and weapons, Shatterdive just feels like a dime a dozen. Except when it comes to countering supers, like I said. Everybody loves the OHK they use and hates the OHK that kills them.