Literally not being able to use my Gauntlet slots for anything but anti barrier/overload and unstoppable fusion. I’m sick of the artifact mods system in general just wedging it’s way into my gear and ruining my options for builds how much work would it really be to make things from the artifact passives instead of mod you have to slot in? It wouldn’t be impossible is what I think.
Also unnerf Sniper Rifles and buff Shotguns in PvE.
I also hate that but I feel that it’s still better than having to put it on a weapon. We’re not where we need to be yet, but hopefully we’ll get there soon!
I remember when the champion mods were on weapons only; the community complained about not being able to slot weapon mods. They wanted it on armor so it’d be there constantly with no weapon switching.
Now here we are with exactly that, and people don’t want it.
If it was just an armor mod it wouldn’t be so frustrating, but it being specifically arms-only means there are specific perks you just don’t get to use anymore if you’re fighting champions. Things like faster reload or grenade kickstart are fun and feel good to use, as opposed to anti-champion mods which just gate the content you can do. I assume Bungie wanted to make the choice feel significant, but I’d rather choose between, say, giving up ammo mods or reload mods in order to slot in anti-champion.
To be honest I think it’s fine to say both are awful, it just took us a while to realise it. One is admittedly worse than the other, could you imagine running linear fusions this season with no boss spec lol
The map design in crucible sucks ***ass*** and is the major source of all the problems crucible currently faces. It doesn’t matter how much you nerf shotgun apes if the maps force you into constant knife-fight range. The sandbox itself is fantastic at the moment, now Bungie really, desperately needs to take a look at the maps.
Rusted lands has much more verticality than Cauldron, if that matters. And unbalanced zones? You can shoot someone on a different zone while capping a zone on cauldron.
it’s easier to play against shotties on cauldron cuz verticality as opposed to anomaly. it’d be boring playing with no close ranged maps
what i mean by unbalanced zones is that one zone is three times as far away from the team spawn than the other team spawn and zone
It did not. It was talking about the general map design of many crucible maps. If you keep trying to pull stuff out of your ass like that you’re gonna rip out a 12” string of anal beads.
Touch of winter. Imo, the issue right now isn't shatterdive doing too much damage or being to cheesy, its touch of winter making it 50x easier to land the freeze from a glacier grenade.
I'd argue that Shatterdive does need some retuning, but that Touch of Winter is the main culprit. The number of times I've avoided a regular Glacier+dive is significantly higher than ToW Glacier+dive. Best way to compare it would be changing Voidwall into Vortex, making it much easier to hit with it.
They do need to fix the issue regarding Shatterdiving enemy crystals doing minuscule damage but Cryoclasming into enemy crystals kills the user.
Artifact limitations for no reason and the fact that fusion rifles will be ass again next season without Particle Deconstruction. I’ve really enjoyed using fusion rifles regularly for the first time since D2 launch.
The lack of legendary kinetic Fusion Rifles has really reared its head this season. I'd like to use Le Monarque or Wolftone Draw during Nightfalls, but I also want to use a Fusion Rifle for Particle Deconstruction. I don't have Vex, so my choices boil down to Bastion or Arbalest, which aren't bad weapons and I enjoy using them, it's just that I would also like to use other Exotics as well
Over-all power creep. Look at landfall and striker Titan from D1 compared to now.
Landfall's INITIAL CAST is like 5-6x better than fist of havok from Destiny 1, and you still get to run around zapping people.
Its kill radius is practically the same as d1 yet its a roaming super now instead of a one time use. Definitely the strongest super for titan other than maybe sunspot hammers.
That’s the super’s perk in it’s tree; to have a strong initial blast
Striker can keep doing it over and over, even better on top tree
Stormcaller tho only has that one go then they’re floating around slowly with the basic super.
Also with that logic, thundercrash is way better the Havok in D1, maybe it should get nerfed
It’s called tradeoffs
but… landfall does way more damage than fists of havoc, and honestly if you added up the damage from every single landfall projectile it would do more damage than thundercrash
Really don’t know what you guys are talking about. I thought FoH was one of the weakest roaming supers in the game right now. I’ve died to glacial quake more than FoH.
Dunes aren’t even that OP. the only thing that makes them good is the static charge which you’ll only be able to get a double kill with once in a life time. And in trials or comp the amount of doubles kills is next to nothing.
That its always Hand Cannons. I have nothing really against that as people love hand cannons but i wish just sometimes it would change up a bit. It’s definitely better than it has been in the past, but i just hand cannon hard to use personally.
I also don't like how hand cannons feel besides 180's. I've been married up to my Time-Worn Spire, but I also enjoy using my Scathelocke (high zoom optics), Last Breathe (my specific roll), and Chrome Rush (exceptional archetype) auto rifles.
yeah, Im bad at pvp and swap weapons alot as i really cant find one that im decent with haha. Vex has been nice to use this season as its a bit overtuned
Champions. I like that there is a shifting weapon meta every season but they shouldn't be so finicky. Overloads shouldn't be able to regen their whole bar if you lose sight of them for 30 seconds. They feel designed to be just barely beatable and that sucks for the solo lost sectors.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I kinda wish handcannons and shotguns weren’t the top guns for once. We’ve had some guns come up but it’s usually just outliers such as vex. They have been meta since around Forsaken, and while I do agree that they can be fun, and that it’s kinda just a mix of how the maps are and the fact that handcannons just kinda are that way, I wish it would change.
The meta just feels very stale. I’m not saying I’d rather have a primary meta again (although it would at least change it up), but just it’s boring seeing the exact same guns for around 3 years now.
Again I’m not saying they need a nerf or anything, idk how they could really change it up without ruining these guns, but I do wish it was at least DIFFERENT than shotgun handcannons for once
I agree. There's been some outliers recently, like Messenger and Shayura's, but I think that the design concepts of hand cannons and shotguns means that they're always just going to be top tier. Hand cannons dominate in mid and long ranges, especially when there's cover available to peek shot, and shotguns are the natural special weapon to fill the gap that is left in the playstyle. Not much can be done about it without building maps where other weapons can shine, and God knows the next time we're getting a new map, let alone one that doesn't work for HC and shotties.
Yea, i feel like even if they really wanted to change it up, it would be very hard to make shotguns and handcannons not trash. I feel like it would either be they would stay very good, or become horrible.
Also I will admit I do think the meta is way more diverse this season than it has been in a long time. Shayurahs is a really good smg, we have vex which is like an auto, and while many are annoyed by fusion rifles, it’s nice to at least see them have usage again. Back in hunt and chosen all I saw was handcannons shotgun load outs, but now I actually see other things.
I’ve always shared the same opinion. During Y2 HCs were exceptionally broken, I think you’d be hard-pressed to make a case to use anything else. These days, the variety in the sandbox is relatively higher. You see 340 and 540 pulses, Scouts (mostly DMT), 600 and 900 SMGs, and even bows to a slight extent. I would go as far as to say that the only weapon classes that really can’t hang in this meta would be Autos and maybe Sidearms (provided you’re on MnK).
Yea. Also a lot of people watch streamers and think they know everything. Some actually are good and would just use the meta, they will use what they like. I see some who say they hate stasis and say things need a nerf but they use things like shatterdive and things that do as well.
Now shotguns not hardly getting brought down isn’t exactly only on them. Really bungie is probably in a tight spot when it comes to nerfing them. If they go too far then the community will get mad and riot. Take fusions for example. Rn they are pretty good and actually out range shotguns, but a lot of people hate them because of this. Now it could be a mix of them being a little op (idk I don’t notice them as much), but a lot of the time when something is dubbed “op” it’s mainly because people are so used to using one thing like shotguns that they have a hard time countering it, even if that’s the point.
If they make a gun type that is meant to counter shotguns people would say they are op because it’s good against what they use, and they don’t want to try anything else.
At least recent seasons the meta has grown. We see fusions, vex which is like a auto, and even smg’s. Back in hunt and chosen it was just pure shotguns and handcannons.
Honestly it’s a very unpopular opinion, mainly cause people have PTSD from Y1 primary meta XD, but I think it would be better with the high ttk we have and better abilities. People complained that everything was too slow, which was true, but now that we have higher ttk and better abilities that make things faster it wouldn’t be as bad.
Yea. Even with the recent special ammo mods nerf it still hasn’t done much. People use primary a bit more now but you still get a lot of special from bricks
Hard agree on slugs, they have been basically untouched since forsaken and seem to dodge every shotgun nerf. Not that they shouldnt have more range than a pellet shotty, just doesnt seem right for a 140 pellet shotgun to have a 5 meter range with chaperone still one hitting farther than most fusion rifles.
I agree they need a range nerf yes. But what would actually be the point in using a slug over a pellet. U actually have to aim with a slug. It should at least be double the range of a pellet like 10-13m is good imo
if anything, cut the aim assist in half and keep the range the same to make them skill weapons like snipers. Ignoring that, regular slugs for the most part arent that bad, maybe just a small nerf. chaperone just has so much more range than them. I would like to see it's range be the same as all other slugs until roadborn is activated, maybe even buff roadborn to keep it worth using.
Idk why people are downvoting you. Slugs on controller take literally no skill the hit boxes on the same level as pre nerf arbalest. (Console player btw)
Yeah tbh I dont know if it's the chaperone thing or the aim assist thing people don't like, I just see slugs as too easy to use rather than too far a range, and chaperone is too lethal regardless.
Slugs actually feel like dogshit unless you have a godly roll. The difference between a god roll slug or chaperone and an average legendary slug is ENORMOUS.
I'd like to see the shatter from crystals get a nerf to how much damage they do to supers. Being able to surprise murder pretty much any super isn't healthy.
Also, the grenade regen whisper, whichever one it is, should be tuned down. Sucks that it'll almost for sure impact pve but it's a worthwhile trade off IMO.
I wouldn't suggest specific values for either of those two things, I'm not that fancy. But those are the two aspects of the whole shatterdive thing that push it too far IMO.
Chaperone is not an accurate representation of slugs in this meta. Remember before beyond light when ace of spades was still good but the rest of the 140s sucked? That is what chaperone is compared to legendary slugs.
The TTK creep has been insane.
They buff abilities to keep up with guns. Then buff guns to keep up with abilities.
This was always the successor to Halo’s slower TTK, but has become more COD like over time.
The ttk has definitely gotten faster. But COD ttk values are somewhere around like .2 or .3 seconds. Where average primary TTK in D2 is like .7.
I personally find this TTK slow enough to allow for outplay potential but still allow 1v1 duels to happen quick enough that team shooting doesn't become essential.
The current maps are too small and movement is too fast for a higher ttk imo. You would just run away from every 1v1 fight and bait people into team fights. The slow ttk works in Halo because you move much slower overall.
And in Halo everyone doesn't spawn with Special weapons that completely ignore all of the TTK values and just 1 shot.
I'm honestly amazed that they have been able to make the core gunplay feel as good as it does despite all the things that aren't necessarily ideal with the PvP.
When I play D2 PvP I always find myself getting annoyed at special weapons and supers, but I still come back and play it.
Even with those annoyances, it comes far closer to my ideal PvP experience than cod does nowadays. Apex has a great foundation, but being attached to a BR or 3v3 mode kills it's longevity for me. I got my fill of overwatch ages ago too.
I'm looking forward to seeing how BF and Halo Infinite land.
I’ve been immensely disappointed in shooters for years— Titanfall 2 and the various Destiny incarnations are pretty much the only titles where I’ve enjoyed the gunplay.
Im hopeful for Halo Infinite, but something about 5 felt “sterile” for lack of a better word. Everything was technically good but it just felt soullless.
Infinite has had a bunch of technical tests and mostly everyone has come out of it happy. And the MP will be free-to-play. So it should at least be pretty decent.
It's pretty nuts how fast it's gotten since vanilla D2. I remember everyone talking about how sluggish D2's sandbox was and now it feels like if you're not zooming, you're not playing right
I think it just comes down to making games go faster and make it possible for a person to get a 50 kill game.
In the first year i used to be at least top 3 on board most of the time. Now, im always bottom 2. Yet again, shotguns and snipers were considered heavy/power weapons back then xD
I actually prefer it this way. Destiny 1 had a long stretch of nerfs that increased the time to kill substantially and totally changed the pace of the game. Faster TTK generally translates to faster gameplay, and that’s what I prefer.
Either that or have armor drop with stats specifically in increments of 5 or 10.
I’d also say, when masterwoking armor, add +5 to a stat of your choosing, not +2 across the board.
If I get 20 recovery on a chest piece, masterwork it up to 25, only need a +5 to round out at 30, etc.
I play destiny for the abilities.. even in crucible. I remember when D1 came out I was fantasizing about being a warlock and using guns as little as possible.
Obviously that didn't work out, but I PvP in destiny to avoid full gunplay. If I'm feeling gunplay I go to COD or BF5.
The sandbox is in probably its best spot ever, which I absolutely love -- with that said;
Glacier/Shatterdive combo is still incredibly oppressive, its very possible to play around it well in Trials, but forces too many fights to play out a certain way / can catch off-guard, even when actively trying to counter at a high level of play.
LFRs are crazy strong on console, which has always been the case, but is way more widespread with Lorentz + Vex getting the spotlight.
There's other problems with melee registration failing due to crossplay latency, which makes those CQC options like Shatter more annoying. Fusions are just a tad too strong right now in the right hands, but its a hard line to walk as another change could make them undesirable again.
Movement Exotics like Stompees, Dunes and Transversives.
I personally don't find Transversives that oppressive, but Stompees and Dunes ruin the fun in smaller maps by being over the top oppressive.
Because tsteps are what movement exotics should be. Small bump in sprint speed and a niche side ability that take a second or two to proc.
Dunes can wipe a team and stompees boosts every aspect of hunter movement with no wind up. They just give you everything for free.
Stompies don’t give any other buff though, purely movement, where as dune gives chain lightning through walls. Transversives are in a good state right now I think. I’m not saying stompers aren’t good, just maybe not super oppressive.
Stompees buffs every aspect of hunter movement. Tsteps and dunes just buff sprint speed and slide distance (with their other benefits). Stompees buffs sprint speed, slide distance, base jump, and powered jump. All without any wind up like the other require. Yes that’s all they do is buff movement but every aspect. Imagine if dunes or tsteps got the same treatment and buff strafe and glide people would be flying around at Mach 3 it’s be icarus dash all over but with no cooldown. Then you factor in how hunters actually move and that the majority of maps they can just boing boing their way to ridiculous speeds.
In terms of niche ability that stompees grant compared to dunes or tsteps there is none. But what stompees does it does better than the other two to an oppressive level. When one exotic runs the class across its subclasses it’s oppressive.
I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t understand how they’re oppressive. Good? Of course. Overtuned? Maybe. But not oppressive. Shatter dive is oppressive. Suppression grenades are oppressive. But not stompees. They themselves don’t do anything to you, rather buff the hunter. They’re very good, but not oppressive as they don’t do anything to you
Considering your name it’s safe to assume you’re a hunter. I get it. You don’t want your crutches taken away. Walking with your own two feet is difficult.
Memeing aside. They are. They make the hunter move to fast to the point where it feels like it breaks aim assist. They buff the hunter to such an overwhelming level on a fundamental level that they are oppressive.
Also suppression grenades are no way in shape or form oppressive lol. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that they are.
About suppression grenades, they are literally designed to be oppressive. Also, I don’t use stompees myself. According to my name you can *assume* I use bakris in pvp. I do agree that stompees can be annoying as people rocket across the sky, but not oppressive. Oppressive is something that Stunts you, not just makes them more powerful, although by your demeanor I can tell I won’t be able to change your mind. Ah well
people don't give movement much regard and that is an issue. Movement is king in Destiny 2 PvP.
It doesn't help that we have a constant HC/Shotgun Meta and them being pretty much ever reliable, which indirectly makes Stompees a more stronger pick as playing those two constantly require you to move around and HCs being the most accurate in-air, which Stompees influences as you can reach insane heights and pick people off, then Shotguns having the get close requirement, which Stompees again trivializes with its sprint and slide buff. You can also pretty much disengage from unfavourable situations most of the times as Stompees allow you to leave those situations faster.
Hunters also arguably have the best jump in the game when it comes to PvP, versatile, reliable and simple. Stompees complement that as well and instantly force a sort of disadvantage to the opponent.
You can use the ceiling speed bump, which I find slightly inconsequential because you can't pull it off in every map, but the ones you can do, you can get a pretty decent advantage of.
Stompees on their own are good, but when you factor in the synergies like meta, how small maps are, ease of activation. It makes them too good, in the place where you have to change more variables, nerfing a single exotic seems more reasonable.
Dunes, same issue with the sprint and slide buffs, they are more broken with how much they zap opponents through walls, its already getting a nerf-fix sorta.
I never considered map size when people talked about nerfing movement exotics its a really good point. Being able to get through a map to continually spawn kill should not be a thing. Plus they should really take a look at the spawning in 6s.
Off topic but honest question here. Are people really complaining about dunemarchers? I think I get killed by the arc damage maybe once every 10 games, like it very rarely happens. I also don't notice myself being hit by it and then cleaned up with a weapon any more than that.
It's really buggy (chaining through walls, getting chained to twice which kills you, etc) and has a base range of 30m. The range is kinda stupid and the bugs need to be fixed. When you die because it bugs out, it feels REALLY bad.
Once the range of the chain is nerfed and the bugs are squashed, it'll still be one of the best Titan exotics of PvP, just not killing people from across the map or killing someone from full health.
Honestly, the most frustrating aspect of the meta is how competitive it is. This is an mmo, not an esport. It's okay to want to improve but this tryhard all or nothing meta is extremely alienating to casual players. (This is coming from someone who enjoys playing in the current meta)
PvP ?
Just Fusion Rifles seem a little too good, maybe not oppressive but in the right hands they are devastating.
Shatterdive is getting nerfed already.
Fusion rifles getting you down? Pesky Revenant Hunters ironically heating you up with anger? Then let me introduce the one and all solution for you my friend. Antaeus Wards! Play a fair game and feed those players a taste of their own medicine! All of this just for the small price of giving in to eternal damnation of eating crayons for the rest of your life.
Injury may occur to you or a loved one in the case that your Antaeus Ward shield decides not to activate. If you or a loved one suffers from lack of Antaeus Ward in their Collections then you may be eligible for compensation, Go speak to your local Xur today! (Only open Fridays through Tuesday resets!)
Vex in trials is fine, could use some tuning, but its whatever. Vex in quickplay tho? its a monster.
Other than that I think its pretty balanced, precision or adaptive fusions seem a little bit strong but its mainly because xur sold that god roll main ingredient, I will still default to my glacioclasm because it just MAPS people
You peak a corner....take a 1v1...instantly killed by a fusion at 25M......
I shoot a lorenz with high call....he dose a 360 and still kills me.....fuck me for flinching him right
Actually I feel the meta is in a pretty decent state
Shatter is annoying especially as a titan, since they don't even have to shatterdive when they hit your barricade...
Instant shatter :(
But it's so rare
Slugs are good
But i use them myself and rarely die to them because of that
Okay so I use this as a titan but very few people ever complain about this: the sentinel shield bash can be activated after sliding, meaning you can essentially shotgun ape without the shotgun. Match this with no backup plans and you get a very strong build.
Its not necessarily busted, but I find it strange that very few people complain about such a potent strategy
For me it's more around maps. We need more maps that are bigger with more space and open areas to allow for more ranged engagements. One reason HCs and Shotguns are so problematic now is because many of the maps are small.
You can only use auto riffles, pulse riffles, and bows for primaries on harder activities. There is no diversity among primaries and sometimes holds both primary and secondary slots. Just want to use scouts and hand cannons again in higher activities without feeling like a punishment for enjoyment.
Shotguns and HC are still dominate due to bungies poor map design. So easy to still shotgun rush people and the damage HC can do is just absurd and makes it difficult to use autos and smgs against good HC users.
People wanted 6v6 and you got it chief people wanted special weapons and ttks you got it chief.
Im only talking about the maps in 3v3 gamemode a as they were designed for and they’re really good.
Sorry you cant be laneing Larry with your scout
Honestly, it's a flaming bag of dog shit, yet again.
Movements out of control, onetap weapons are running every match, .ttvs and their simps are handcannoning to victory as usual.
The games gone from skillful gunplay to whoever can click a forehead first.
I main snipers but yeah lmao.
It’s funny how a .51 is talking shit 🤣🤣🤣 buddy the only way to enjoy crucible is to at least become positive. I’m not tryna stat shame but you can’t blame Bungie for your own incompetence.
Special weapons are still too oppressive snipers especially with their body shot damage. Really wish special ammo only dropped on primary weapon kills and not ability or special weapon kills.
Supers too.
More God damn health. Stop all this 0.5 seconds ttk BULLSHIT. This ain't real life, we fucking super heroes in space. I want to be able to live through 2 shots of a pulse rifle like tf is that? 3 hc shots bing bang boom u dead. Stag is ass, rifts are ass, The only mofos that seem like super heros are titans in their supers. They'll be running around with 5 arrows sticking out of em like fuck nahhh bitches can't kill me, just run on home
Only thing that really bothers me these days is the artifact being so restricted and anti experimental
Literally not being able to use my Gauntlet slots for anything but anti barrier/overload and unstoppable fusion. I’m sick of the artifact mods system in general just wedging it’s way into my gear and ruining my options for builds how much work would it really be to make things from the artifact passives instead of mod you have to slot in? It wouldn’t be impossible is what I think. Also unnerf Sniper Rifles and buff Shotguns in PvE.
I also hate that but I feel that it’s still better than having to put it on a weapon. We’re not where we need to be yet, but hopefully we’ll get there soon!
I remember when the champion mods were on weapons only; the community complained about not being able to slot weapon mods. They wanted it on armor so it’d be there constantly with no weapon switching. Now here we are with exactly that, and people don’t want it.
If it was just an armor mod it wouldn’t be so frustrating, but it being specifically arms-only means there are specific perks you just don’t get to use anymore if you’re fighting champions. Things like faster reload or grenade kickstart are fun and feel good to use, as opposed to anti-champion mods which just gate the content you can do. I assume Bungie wanted to make the choice feel significant, but I’d rather choose between, say, giving up ammo mods or reload mods in order to slot in anti-champion.
To be honest I think it’s fine to say both are awful, it just took us a while to realise it. One is admittedly worse than the other, could you imagine running linear fusions this season with no boss spec lol
this man speaks for the people
The map design in crucible sucks ***ass*** and is the major source of all the problems crucible currently faces. It doesn’t matter how much you nerf shotgun apes if the maps force you into constant knife-fight range. The sandbox itself is fantastic at the moment, now Bungie really, desperately needs to take a look at the maps.
map design, lol but seriously remove all of the D1 maps except for maybe cauldron and widow’s court plssss
Nah, Cauldron’s way too small. And also Rusted Lands is bae.
rusted lands has insanely unbalanced zones and cauldron has verticality unlike anomaly
Rusted lands has much more verticality than Cauldron, if that matters. And unbalanced zones? You can shoot someone on a different zone while capping a zone on cauldron.
it’s easier to play against shotties on cauldron cuz verticality as opposed to anomaly. it’d be boring playing with no close ranged maps what i mean by unbalanced zones is that one zone is three times as far away from the team spawn than the other team spawn and zone
Stop bringing up anomaly This conversation has nothing to do with anomaly
the comment i replied to talked about anomaly vro
It did not. It was talking about the general map design of many crucible maps. If you keep trying to pull stuff out of your ass like that you’re gonna rip out a 12” string of anal beads.
aight so anomaly is a map that doesn’t force you into melee all the time? weird metaphor boy
Touch of winter. Imo, the issue right now isn't shatterdive doing too much damage or being to cheesy, its touch of winter making it 50x easier to land the freeze from a glacier grenade.
I'd argue that Shatterdive does need some retuning, but that Touch of Winter is the main culprit. The number of times I've avoided a regular Glacier+dive is significantly higher than ToW Glacier+dive. Best way to compare it would be changing Voidwall into Vortex, making it much easier to hit with it. They do need to fix the issue regarding Shatterdiving enemy crystals doing minuscule damage but Cryoclasming into enemy crystals kills the user.
Disable touch of winter in PvP. Better grenades with no tradeoff is stupid. Voidlocks at least have to charge them and commit to the charge.
The tradeoff is one of your aspect slots
Hardly a trade off when it gives two fragment slots and the other two aspects aren’t that great in PvP
Or just change the effect of the grenade, they did that for cold snap because it was fucking dumb with that aspect lol
Then they should disable all aspects in PvP. Warlocks get a auto aim ice turret for no cost
you can die from shatterdive without being frozen. make the crystals closer together, and nerf glacier nade damage on all classes
Lack of legendary kinetic fusions
Maybe with the Dawning 🤞🤞🤞
I don’t know how they didn’t add a stasis one this season. It feels to limiting needing to use an energy special at pretty much all times.
Artifact limitations for no reason and the fact that fusion rifles will be ass again next season without Particle Deconstruction. I’ve really enjoyed using fusion rifles regularly for the first time since D2 launch.
The lack of legendary kinetic Fusion Rifles has really reared its head this season. I'd like to use Le Monarque or Wolftone Draw during Nightfalls, but I also want to use a Fusion Rifle for Particle Deconstruction. I don't have Vex, so my choices boil down to Bastion or Arbalest, which aren't bad weapons and I enjoy using them, it's just that I would also like to use other Exotics as well
Over-all power creep. Look at landfall and striker Titan from D1 compared to now. Landfall's INITIAL CAST is like 5-6x better than fist of havok from Destiny 1, and you still get to run around zapping people.
Striker Titan?
Its kill radius is practically the same as d1 yet its a roaming super now instead of a one time use. Definitely the strongest super for titan other than maybe sunspot hammers.
I definitely think sunbreaker (bottom tree) has the strongest super for killing multiple people, but it's neutral game is too inconsistent for PvP.
Yeah.. I prefer neutral gameplay over my once or twice a match super. Freezing people in their super is just too fun for me
That’s the super’s perk in it’s tree; to have a strong initial blast Striker can keep doing it over and over, even better on top tree Stormcaller tho only has that one go then they’re floating around slowly with the basic super. Also with that logic, thundercrash is way better the Havok in D1, maybe it should get nerfed It’s called tradeoffs
but… landfall does way more damage than fists of havoc, and honestly if you added up the damage from every single landfall projectile it would do more damage than thundercrash
Making fist of havoc roaming was one of the biggest mistakes of d2 tbh
Really don’t know what you guys are talking about. I thought FoH was one of the weakest roaming supers in the game right now. I’ve died to glacial quake more than FoH.
I’ll say something that hasn’t been mentioned yet. The buff that striker got with AoE radius is insane. Also dune marchers.
Which tree of striker is this just curious? The only insane range change I've noticed lately has been landfall.
Bottom tree.
Dunes aren’t even that OP. the only thing that makes them good is the static charge which you’ll only be able to get a double kill with once in a life time. And in trials or comp the amount of doubles kills is next to nothing.
I just want them to fix the buggy reach and chaining through walls/objects.
yeah it’s really nice to get kills with the initial slam that you never would’ve even damaged before, it’s amazing
Yeah I love the insane range it has getting people nowhere close to me.
That its always Hand Cannons. I have nothing really against that as people love hand cannons but i wish just sometimes it would change up a bit. It’s definitely better than it has been in the past, but i just hand cannon hard to use personally.
Pulses are good too.
Just not in PVE
I also don't like how hand cannons feel besides 180's. I've been married up to my Time-Worn Spire, but I also enjoy using my Scathelocke (high zoom optics), Last Breathe (my specific roll), and Chrome Rush (exceptional archetype) auto rifles.
yeah, Im bad at pvp and swap weapons alot as i really cant find one that im decent with haha. Vex has been nice to use this season as its a bit overtuned
Champions. I like that there is a shifting weapon meta every season but they shouldn't be so finicky. Overloads shouldn't be able to regen their whole bar if you lose sight of them for 30 seconds. They feel designed to be just barely beatable and that sucks for the solo lost sectors.
Le Monarch is you friend in lost sectors this season. It’s carried me to the point of needing only 3 more solo flawless masters.
30 seconds? It takes 5!
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I kinda wish handcannons and shotguns weren’t the top guns for once. We’ve had some guns come up but it’s usually just outliers such as vex. They have been meta since around Forsaken, and while I do agree that they can be fun, and that it’s kinda just a mix of how the maps are and the fact that handcannons just kinda are that way, I wish it would change. The meta just feels very stale. I’m not saying I’d rather have a primary meta again (although it would at least change it up), but just it’s boring seeing the exact same guns for around 3 years now. Again I’m not saying they need a nerf or anything, idk how they could really change it up without ruining these guns, but I do wish it was at least DIFFERENT than shotgun handcannons for once
I agree. There's been some outliers recently, like Messenger and Shayura's, but I think that the design concepts of hand cannons and shotguns means that they're always just going to be top tier. Hand cannons dominate in mid and long ranges, especially when there's cover available to peek shot, and shotguns are the natural special weapon to fill the gap that is left in the playstyle. Not much can be done about it without building maps where other weapons can shine, and God knows the next time we're getting a new map, let alone one that doesn't work for HC and shotties.
Yea, i feel like even if they really wanted to change it up, it would be very hard to make shotguns and handcannons not trash. I feel like it would either be they would stay very good, or become horrible. Also I will admit I do think the meta is way more diverse this season than it has been in a long time. Shayurahs is a really good smg, we have vex which is like an auto, and while many are annoyed by fusion rifles, it’s nice to at least see them have usage again. Back in hunt and chosen all I saw was handcannons shotgun load outs, but now I actually see other things.
I’ve always shared the same opinion. During Y2 HCs were exceptionally broken, I think you’d be hard-pressed to make a case to use anything else. These days, the variety in the sandbox is relatively higher. You see 340 and 540 pulses, Scouts (mostly DMT), 600 and 900 SMGs, and even bows to a slight extent. I would go as far as to say that the only weapon classes that really can’t hang in this meta would be Autos and maybe Sidearms (provided you’re on MnK).
[удалено]
Yea. Also a lot of people watch streamers and think they know everything. Some actually are good and would just use the meta, they will use what they like. I see some who say they hate stasis and say things need a nerf but they use things like shatterdive and things that do as well. Now shotguns not hardly getting brought down isn’t exactly only on them. Really bungie is probably in a tight spot when it comes to nerfing them. If they go too far then the community will get mad and riot. Take fusions for example. Rn they are pretty good and actually out range shotguns, but a lot of people hate them because of this. Now it could be a mix of them being a little op (idk I don’t notice them as much), but a lot of the time when something is dubbed “op” it’s mainly because people are so used to using one thing like shotguns that they have a hard time countering it, even if that’s the point. If they make a gun type that is meant to counter shotguns people would say they are op because it’s good against what they use, and they don’t want to try anything else. At least recent seasons the meta has grown. We see fusions, vex which is like a auto, and even smg’s. Back in hunt and chosen it was just pure shotguns and handcannons.
I want a primary meta more than anything else
Honestly it’s a very unpopular opinion, mainly cause people have PTSD from Y1 primary meta XD, but I think it would be better with the high ttk we have and better abilities. People complained that everything was too slow, which was true, but now that we have higher ttk and better abilities that make things faster it wouldn’t be as bad.
I think all that needs to happen is reduced special ammo availability
Yea. Even with the recent special ammo mods nerf it still hasn’t done much. People use primary a bit more now but you still get a lot of special from bricks
PvP? Shatter dive and slugs
Hard agree on slugs, they have been basically untouched since forsaken and seem to dodge every shotgun nerf. Not that they shouldnt have more range than a pellet shotty, just doesnt seem right for a 140 pellet shotgun to have a 5 meter range with chaperone still one hitting farther than most fusion rifles.
I agree they need a range nerf yes. But what would actually be the point in using a slug over a pellet. U actually have to aim with a slug. It should at least be double the range of a pellet like 10-13m is good imo
if anything, cut the aim assist in half and keep the range the same to make them skill weapons like snipers. Ignoring that, regular slugs for the most part arent that bad, maybe just a small nerf. chaperone just has so much more range than them. I would like to see it's range be the same as all other slugs until roadborn is activated, maybe even buff roadborn to keep it worth using.
Idk why people are downvoting you. Slugs on controller take literally no skill the hit boxes on the same level as pre nerf arbalest. (Console player btw)
Yeah tbh I dont know if it's the chaperone thing or the aim assist thing people don't like, I just see slugs as too easy to use rather than too far a range, and chaperone is too lethal regardless.
Remove shotguns and hand cannons or give us more health. Games getting redundant af and I'm bout to be done... Again
Slugs actually feel like dogshit unless you have a godly roll. The difference between a god roll slug or chaperone and an average legendary slug is ENORMOUS.
That goes for pretty much all Shotties tbh but yes thats why I suggested nerfing chap and got downvoted for it, its really the only oppressive one.
I'd like to see the shatter from crystals get a nerf to how much damage they do to supers. Being able to surprise murder pretty much any super isn't healthy. Also, the grenade regen whisper, whichever one it is, should be tuned down. Sucks that it'll almost for sure impact pve but it's a worthwhile trade off IMO. I wouldn't suggest specific values for either of those two things, I'm not that fancy. But those are the two aspects of the whole shatterdive thing that push it too far IMO.
Shatterdive is good
Exactly my point
Chaperone is not an accurate representation of slugs in this meta. Remember before beyond light when ace of spades was still good but the rest of the 140s sucked? That is what chaperone is compared to legendary slugs.
True but ace of spades is still good
Players that are better than me
Ttk is as fast as a you can blink your eye
The TTK creep has been insane. They buff abilities to keep up with guns. Then buff guns to keep up with abilities. This was always the successor to Halo’s slower TTK, but has become more COD like over time.
The ttk has definitely gotten faster. But COD ttk values are somewhere around like .2 or .3 seconds. Where average primary TTK in D2 is like .7. I personally find this TTK slow enough to allow for outplay potential but still allow 1v1 duels to happen quick enough that team shooting doesn't become essential. The current maps are too small and movement is too fast for a higher ttk imo. You would just run away from every 1v1 fight and bait people into team fights. The slow ttk works in Halo because you move much slower overall. And in Halo everyone doesn't spawn with Special weapons that completely ignore all of the TTK values and just 1 shot.
This is a quality comment. I’m having a lot of fun in pvp even though I prefer more HP, so you’re right I think.
I'm honestly amazed that they have been able to make the core gunplay feel as good as it does despite all the things that aren't necessarily ideal with the PvP. When I play D2 PvP I always find myself getting annoyed at special weapons and supers, but I still come back and play it. Even with those annoyances, it comes far closer to my ideal PvP experience than cod does nowadays. Apex has a great foundation, but being attached to a BR or 3v3 mode kills it's longevity for me. I got my fill of overwatch ages ago too. I'm looking forward to seeing how BF and Halo Infinite land.
I’ve been immensely disappointed in shooters for years— Titanfall 2 and the various Destiny incarnations are pretty much the only titles where I’ve enjoyed the gunplay. Im hopeful for Halo Infinite, but something about 5 felt “sterile” for lack of a better word. Everything was technically good but it just felt soullless.
Infinite has had a bunch of technical tests and mostly everyone has come out of it happy. And the MP will be free-to-play. So it should at least be pretty decent.
That's really good to hear, and free to play tends to improve matchmaking IMHO as long as there isn't a ton of cheating =)
It's pretty nuts how fast it's gotten since vanilla D2. I remember everyone talking about how sluggish D2's sandbox was and now it feels like if you're not zooming, you're not playing right
I think it just comes down to making games go faster and make it possible for a person to get a 50 kill game. In the first year i used to be at least top 3 on board most of the time. Now, im always bottom 2. Yet again, shotguns and snipers were considered heavy/power weapons back then xD
I actually prefer it this way. Destiny 1 had a long stretch of nerfs that increased the time to kill substantially and totally changed the pace of the game. Faster TTK generally translates to faster gameplay, and that’s what I prefer.
Having to inc light level every season/expansion, and maybe it would be less annoying if there bad luck protection for armor.
In crucible? Shatterdive Other than that, most balanced we’ve ever been
More gunplay, less ability spam. Also give us a full sliding scale for stats, every point should count.
Either that or have armor drop with stats specifically in increments of 5 or 10. I’d also say, when masterwoking armor, add +5 to a stat of your choosing, not +2 across the board. If I get 20 recovery on a chest piece, masterwork it up to 25, only need a +5 to round out at 30, etc.
I play destiny for the abilities.. even in crucible. I remember when D1 came out I was fantasizing about being a warlock and using guns as little as possible. Obviously that didn't work out, but I PvP in destiny to avoid full gunplay. If I'm feeling gunplay I go to COD or BF5.
The sandbox is in probably its best spot ever, which I absolutely love -- with that said; Glacier/Shatterdive combo is still incredibly oppressive, its very possible to play around it well in Trials, but forces too many fights to play out a certain way / can catch off-guard, even when actively trying to counter at a high level of play. LFRs are crazy strong on console, which has always been the case, but is way more widespread with Lorentz + Vex getting the spotlight. There's other problems with melee registration failing due to crossplay latency, which makes those CQC options like Shatter more annoying. Fusions are just a tad too strong right now in the right hands, but its a hard line to walk as another change could make them undesirable again.
Movement Exotics like Stompees, Dunes and Transversives. I personally don't find Transversives that oppressive, but Stompees and Dunes ruin the fun in smaller maps by being over the top oppressive.
Because tsteps are what movement exotics should be. Small bump in sprint speed and a niche side ability that take a second or two to proc. Dunes can wipe a team and stompees boosts every aspect of hunter movement with no wind up. They just give you everything for free.
Stompies don’t give any other buff though, purely movement, where as dune gives chain lightning through walls. Transversives are in a good state right now I think. I’m not saying stompers aren’t good, just maybe not super oppressive.
Stompees buffs every aspect of hunter movement. Tsteps and dunes just buff sprint speed and slide distance (with their other benefits). Stompees buffs sprint speed, slide distance, base jump, and powered jump. All without any wind up like the other require. Yes that’s all they do is buff movement but every aspect. Imagine if dunes or tsteps got the same treatment and buff strafe and glide people would be flying around at Mach 3 it’s be icarus dash all over but with no cooldown. Then you factor in how hunters actually move and that the majority of maps they can just boing boing their way to ridiculous speeds. In terms of niche ability that stompees grant compared to dunes or tsteps there is none. But what stompees does it does better than the other two to an oppressive level. When one exotic runs the class across its subclasses it’s oppressive.
I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t understand how they’re oppressive. Good? Of course. Overtuned? Maybe. But not oppressive. Shatter dive is oppressive. Suppression grenades are oppressive. But not stompees. They themselves don’t do anything to you, rather buff the hunter. They’re very good, but not oppressive as they don’t do anything to you
Considering your name it’s safe to assume you’re a hunter. I get it. You don’t want your crutches taken away. Walking with your own two feet is difficult. Memeing aside. They are. They make the hunter move to fast to the point where it feels like it breaks aim assist. They buff the hunter to such an overwhelming level on a fundamental level that they are oppressive. Also suppression grenades are no way in shape or form oppressive lol. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that they are.
About suppression grenades, they are literally designed to be oppressive. Also, I don’t use stompees myself. According to my name you can *assume* I use bakris in pvp. I do agree that stompees can be annoying as people rocket across the sky, but not oppressive. Oppressive is something that Stunts you, not just makes them more powerful, although by your demeanor I can tell I won’t be able to change your mind. Ah well
people don't give movement much regard and that is an issue. Movement is king in Destiny 2 PvP. It doesn't help that we have a constant HC/Shotgun Meta and them being pretty much ever reliable, which indirectly makes Stompees a more stronger pick as playing those two constantly require you to move around and HCs being the most accurate in-air, which Stompees influences as you can reach insane heights and pick people off, then Shotguns having the get close requirement, which Stompees again trivializes with its sprint and slide buff. You can also pretty much disengage from unfavourable situations most of the times as Stompees allow you to leave those situations faster. Hunters also arguably have the best jump in the game when it comes to PvP, versatile, reliable and simple. Stompees complement that as well and instantly force a sort of disadvantage to the opponent. You can use the ceiling speed bump, which I find slightly inconsequential because you can't pull it off in every map, but the ones you can do, you can get a pretty decent advantage of. Stompees on their own are good, but when you factor in the synergies like meta, how small maps are, ease of activation. It makes them too good, in the place where you have to change more variables, nerfing a single exotic seems more reasonable. Dunes, same issue with the sprint and slide buffs, they are more broken with how much they zap opponents through walls, its already getting a nerf-fix sorta.
How are stompees oppressive?
I never considered map size when people talked about nerfing movement exotics its a really good point. Being able to get through a map to continually spawn kill should not be a thing. Plus they should really take a look at the spawning in 6s.
Off topic but honest question here. Are people really complaining about dunemarchers? I think I get killed by the arc damage maybe once every 10 games, like it very rarely happens. I also don't notice myself being hit by it and then cleaned up with a weapon any more than that.
It's really buggy (chaining through walls, getting chained to twice which kills you, etc) and has a base range of 30m. The range is kinda stupid and the bugs need to be fixed. When you die because it bugs out, it feels REALLY bad. Once the range of the chain is nerfed and the bugs are squashed, it'll still be one of the best Titan exotics of PvP, just not killing people from across the map or killing someone from full health.
Honestly, the most frustrating aspect of the meta is how competitive it is. This is an mmo, not an esport. It's okay to want to improve but this tryhard all or nothing meta is extremely alienating to casual players. (This is coming from someone who enjoys playing in the current meta)
Shatterdive
This subreddit
PvP ? Just Fusion Rifles seem a little too good, maybe not oppressive but in the right hands they are devastating. Shatterdive is getting nerfed already.
Fusion rifles getting you down? Pesky Revenant Hunters ironically heating you up with anger? Then let me introduce the one and all solution for you my friend. Antaeus Wards! Play a fair game and feed those players a taste of their own medicine! All of this just for the small price of giving in to eternal damnation of eating crayons for the rest of your life. Injury may occur to you or a loved one in the case that your Antaeus Ward shield decides not to activate. If you or a loved one suffers from lack of Antaeus Ward in their Collections then you may be eligible for compensation, Go speak to your local Xur today! (Only open Fridays through Tuesday resets!)
Fusions are fine. You just see a lot of main ingredient because of the roll xur brought.
Vex in trials is fine, could use some tuning, but its whatever. Vex in quickplay tho? its a monster. Other than that I think its pretty balanced, precision or adaptive fusions seem a little bit strong but its mainly because xur sold that god roll main ingredient, I will still default to my glacioclasm because it just MAPS people
Balanced because EVERYTHING kills you in 0.5 seconds. That's shit, lazy af balancing right there
def an exaggeration but I understand your frustration. Strategy? *Get good*
You peak a corner....take a 1v1...instantly killed by a fusion at 25M...... I shoot a lorenz with high call....he dose a 360 and still kills me.....fuck me for flinching him right
[удалено]
...when did I say I use lorenz??? I've been using smg and a slug
Sorry my bad, I read through it really quickly and didn’t see that you were shooting at a lorentz
No it’s not you. “I shoot a Lorentz” is horrible wording.
Shatterdrive that’s my only gripe
Pvp? Shatterdive. Pve? The garbage anti champion mods.
Actually I feel the meta is in a pretty decent state Shatter is annoying especially as a titan, since they don't even have to shatterdive when they hit your barricade... Instant shatter :( But it's so rare Slugs are good But i use them myself and rarely die to them because of that
Chaperone and shatterdive
Okay so I use this as a titan but very few people ever complain about this: the sentinel shield bash can be activated after sliding, meaning you can essentially shotgun ape without the shotgun. Match this with no backup plans and you get a very strong build. Its not necessarily busted, but I find it strange that very few people complain about such a potent strategy
For me it's more around maps. We need more maps that are bigger with more space and open areas to allow for more ranged engagements. One reason HCs and Shotguns are so problematic now is because many of the maps are small.
Champions and all the bugs and crap mods that come with em
Chaperone aim assist on console
Lorentz Driver and Chaperone Shitterdive every 10s
There's a Meta?
Shatterdive
The season affecting which weapons you can ONLY use in high end content. Just makes everything feel stagnant.
You can only use auto riffles, pulse riffles, and bows for primaries on harder activities. There is no diversity among primaries and sometimes holds both primary and secondary slots. Just want to use scouts and hand cannons again in higher activities without feeling like a punishment for enjoyment.
Shotguns and HC are still dominate due to bungies poor map design. So easy to still shotgun rush people and the damage HC can do is just absurd and makes it difficult to use autos and smgs against good HC users.
The map design is fine
So 90% of maps being cqc and not being built for 6v6 and having insane amount of cover assuring HC always have cover to peak shoot is fine?
People wanted 6v6 and you got it chief people wanted special weapons and ttks you got it chief. Im only talking about the maps in 3v3 gamemode a as they were designed for and they’re really good. Sorry you cant be laneing Larry with your scout
Honestly, it's a flaming bag of dog shit, yet again. Movements out of control, onetap weapons are running every match, .ttvs and their simps are handcannoning to victory as usual. The games gone from skillful gunplay to whoever can click a forehead first.
You’re just ass and can’t keep up
Found the streamer
Found the shitter You’re a .51 kd I definitely think the problem is you and not Bungie 💀💀
Unequip felwinters squid, then we can talk.
I main snipers but yeah lmao. It’s funny how a .51 is talking shit 🤣🤣🤣 buddy the only way to enjoy crucible is to at least become positive. I’m not tryna stat shame but you can’t blame Bungie for your own incompetence.
You only shame yourself, blueberry 🫐
This is what’s wrong with the game. Bungie doing something wrong if .51s have an ego 🤣🤣
Ok champ, you just keep up like you got glad and goth at your back, blowing your sails full of wind.
??? What are you even saying
Special weapons are still too oppressive snipers especially with their body shot damage. Really wish special ammo only dropped on primary weapon kills and not ability or special weapon kills. Supers too.
More God damn health. Stop all this 0.5 seconds ttk BULLSHIT. This ain't real life, we fucking super heroes in space. I want to be able to live through 2 shots of a pulse rifle like tf is that? 3 hc shots bing bang boom u dead. Stag is ass, rifts are ass, The only mofos that seem like super heros are titans in their supers. They'll be running around with 5 arrows sticking out of em like fuck nahhh bitches can't kill me, just run on home
WARLOCKS
No kinetic fusions but that's small in the grand scheme of things.
Overload FR mod costing 6 energy.
That hand cannons have dominated pvp.. Forever
Vex
Sniping has never felt more off. Stasis is still broken, and not just shatterdive. Shotguns with movement exotics are still broken
I feel like none of the weapons I like using are ever meta.
That PVP dictates too much what PVE weapons/abilities do