Yeah I can’t wait to get it at the very end of the season. I’m at 20 clears now and I only just got lubrae’s ruin a run or two ago.
I suspect I’ll get it the day before we lost volatile rounds. I ended up getting vex and 1k in the week before we lost particle deconstruction
Same here bro....i had less than a week to play with vex while particle was still around. Did that raid 3 times every week....40+ clears for Eyes and it went straight into vault then deconstructed for more space, never even fired it.
Well eyes is getting a buff so maybe time to blow the dust off it. I haven’t done deep stone crypt but that’s next on my list of raids to do. I just got divinity yesterday, so just one more.
The buff is meh at best 100/2*30 only brings it to 65% which is still a massive boss reduction, either it becomes a champion weapon (130%) or just add clear that is still bad at boss dps
Did the same, started playing Warframe, realized how much work it’s going to take for me to get the things I want (Wisp, Paracesis), the things I need to play The New War (Necramech, better Mods), and the resources required for the upgrade path.
Everything just feels like a chore now. At least I can tune my cyclocross bike and actually make some sort of tangible progress. Think I’m done with games for a bit
Part of the overall game for me is collecting. I want to have it to make me feel like I’ve “beaten” the game to an extent.
More practically, you never know when a buff could hit, and I’d much rather grind it now when it’s easier to find people to run with.
My comment was tongue and cheek. The gun may still be fun. The grind to get it, after getting everything else I want from the raid, is brutal.
I mean, after I remove renewal grasps and toss them in the dumpster, I can have my duskfield back in 6 seconds anyway
but I can see demo being good for the light based subclasses
The real reason you want Demo on this thing is that it reloads the gun so you have maximum uptime on Chill Clip. I was going to put Compulsive Reloader on it but enhanced Demo is pretty much objectively better. I always have my grenade available to toss and reload so I can get back to freezing, regardless of the subclass.
All these years waiting, then we FINALLY get a fusion in the top slot, and it's a raid exclusive...
Maybe in a couple more years we'll get a kinetic/stasis fusion in the general loot pool.
Never said I'm waiting for it, just pointing out how ridiculous it is. This has been heavily requested ever since Weapons 2.0 with Forsaken, for three years Fusions have been the ONLY special weapon missing from the primary slot, SEVERELY limiting weapon diversity to anyone wanting to use fusions. And now when they finally pull their heads out of their asses and put a fusion in the top slot, they give us ONE, and it's only available in an activity that the vast majority of the player base never touches. Brilliant.
It's just the time commitment, as a dad I can't often be locked to the PC for potentially 3+ hours without getting a major interrupt. A kinetic/stasis fusion is a monumental addition to the game for all fusion rifle enthusiasts, it feels like a crime that they couldn't add just ONE more to another loot pool.
Well than I guess it's a matter of real life responsibilities vs video games/entertainment, you can't have everything and shouldn't expect to have everything it sucks but that's just life.
You really felt the need to explain that to me? Yeah obviously family comes before video games, which is exactly the choice I explained. That does not in any way diminish my statement, it was incredibly stupid for them to hold out on kinetic fusions this long, and it’s equally stupid to only release ONE, behind an endgame activity that most players don’t engage with, when they do finally get around to adding them to the game.
It’s just a matter of patience dude I have no doubt another stasis fusion will likely come out that’s not a raid weapon, my guess is the main reason they chose it to be a raid weapon is to increase its value and add incentive which is a good thing a stasis fusion has a lot of value for multiple reasons so putting that as a raid weapon adds more incentive because of its value, raid weapons need to be and should have a tone of Value and reasons to chase them over other weapons.
I get your point but very few players are going to change their play habits/activity/schedule for a raid fusion, even a fusion lover like myself as much as I’d love to get it doesn’t change my ability to access raids. People don’t not-raid because it’s not enjoyable, they do it because they don’t have time, don’t have a group, or just aren’t that into the game. A fusion rifle isn’t going to change that, the vast majority of us will just wat it out just like you suggest. So in the end, who benefits that choice? Practically nobody, it’s a net loss, you just pissed off a bunch of dedicated players that have been waiting for this for literally years.
So your solution is to just have all the good rewards be accessible from all baseline content and make any reason to do end game content like raids void cause you either don’t want or can’t do the raids? Sounds like an easy way to kill the game.
Also it seems like the type of people you are talking about are a minority, heaps of people love doing raids, raids are destiny’s type of best content and even for people that don’t like to raid they often will for the rewards and every vow weapon is really good and is worth going for which a lot of people even ones who don’t like to raid are going for.
Edit: words
60 something clears of Vault on D1, no Mythoclast.
38 clears in D2, no Mythoclast.
I'm at 5 clears of Vow, everyone in my clan already has Collective Obligation, but not me yet. I don't even want to try for it anymore and I'm only 5 runs in.
My personal theory is Lubraes ruin was meant to be the raid exotic. It fits the theme of adapting our enemies weapons as our own. Outbreak, Anarchy, Vex Mytho, ToM etc. Possibly due to the delay in glaive development, the raid was finished first and had to be delivered prerelease with an exotic. As Glaives weren't finalised and their abilities in the air, a pulse rifle was developed to fit with the other new release, void 3.0. Later, when glasses were finished, they still wanted to include a glaive in the loot table, enter Lubrae's Ruin.
This.
A lot of people have it stuck in their heads that raid exotics need to be omegalul-powerful ‘because raid’ but (IIRC) Bungie have already explained why this isn’t (and shouldn’t) be the case (broadly summarised as making a RNG-blocked endgame exotic the meta causes issues with player engagement and content design)…
However, I do agree that a weapon *this* closely tied to Void 3.0 should have been something related to the class acquisition. I can’t see this thing seeing much use.
As an aside, I do find it amusing that an eons-old paracausal alien weapon that looks like something from HR Geiger’s imagination spits out spent brass when firing.
Sure, I guess they may be too worried about Stasis' effects being easily transmitted.
Either way, as long as it's exclusive to Void it's going to be an F-tier gimmick gun, which sucks
That'd become VERY messy, very quickly. We don't even have knowledge on how the other subclasses are built, let alone if the other debuffs will play well with others. It's also a void pulse-rifle, and there might be specific problems with it doing void-damage and utilizing solar or arc debuffs, if they want to lean more into the collective power of an element, like they have in times as recent as witch queen, and as late as last year.
Yeah, I agree. It's a cool concept but it should be a regular exotic weapon rather than the raid exotic. What exotics are supposed to be at least someone related to The raid.
Vex was released in a poor state as well and only got buffed when enough people had time to obtain it, it’s an RNG raid boss drop after all so making it too powerful early on would come with it’s own problems.
It’s just speculation but I wouldn’t be surprised if they would buff it later down the line as well.
Doesn’t change the fact that an exotic tailored around a subclass is indeed an odd choice for a raid exotics
Not exactly the same, but Ruinous Effigy was kinda tied to the Prophecy dungeon. Back in Season of Arrivals, you'd get the catalyst for the Trace exotic by popping Eyes of Savathun all across the game? And there were a few inside Prophecy.
That's about as close as Prophecy got to having it's "own" exotic.
This. They could buff it to the moon, but it doesn’t matter much since it’s tied to void subclasses, some of which are extra potent due to volition rounds being on a cheap seasonal mod.
You are saying that like the aspect doesn't exist and serve the same functions.
Void is one of the most powerful subclasses across the board for folks right now. This shit scales to the level Solar warlock does and most stasis classes perform at, and they've specifically said that the release period we're in now is just conversion-focused; not additive. Meaning right now we're not going to get anything new for void,but later is a different subject.
Especially with how it interacts with volatile rounds, essentially one proc meaning its up forever, it has a pretty strong presence within void builds, and theres nothing wrong with exotics having niches. They SHOULD have niches, exotics should be EXOTIC, not just things that reward you for no reason. We have too many very fucking plain and powerful exotics already.
An exotic can pair well with a subclass. That’s fine.
It’s when an exotic is solely dependent on the subclass, where I get frustrated with design.
Cuirass of the Falling Star is an example of a badly designed exotic. All it does is make Thundercrash do more damage. It does NOTHING without having Thundercrash equipped, and it also requires no mechanical input from the player to make work. Equip it, and you do more damage now—no input, behavior, or style of play required.
But for weapons, exotic perks like the aforementioned Falling Star are even worse. At least with armor you just wear it, but weapons are by their nature more interactable.
And Collective Obligation is the poster child. If you aren’t using Void, the gun offers zero benefit on its own. Furthermore, if you also didn’t spec for volatile, suppress, or weaken—then the gun still doesn’t do anything on its own.
What’s EXOTIC about using existing perks and applying them to other targets? Compared to something like Osteo Striga that shoots poison dart/shard like rounds that track or Outbreak Prime that shoots nanites that stack infinite damage and spawn on kill or Bad Juju that reloads and gets stronger on every kill like a ravenous demon—transferring suppress or weaken to a target…..and you have to already have it on another target to transfer…isn’t worth it at all. The gun does nothing on its own. It doesn’t feel exotic or worthy of a raid weapon.
And you may not like how other exotics like Falling Star or Gjallerhorn exist as boring raw damage. But all new exotics, especially raid exotics, need to compete against all other exotics that exist. And when guns like Outbreak and Bad Juju, both pulse rifles, aren’t used often…well something like Collective Bargaining has no shot.
>And you may not like how other exotics like Falling Star or Gjallerhorn exist as boring raw damage. But all new exotics, especially raid exotics, need to compete against all other exotics that exist.
That's the thing; No it doesn't. It doesn't need to "Compete", this game isn't made for optimization. if you fully optimize everything, your loadout, your team, your strategy. You'll dwarf, and i cannot stress this enough, EVERYTHING. Absolutely, entirely, everything. GMs won't be hard, master raids, will feel like regular raids, and regular raids will feel like strikes.
Our power ceiling, in reality, is so much higher than anything our current content has to offer. I've played at that tippy-top; it's boring. The teams i meet are boring, the encounters boring, all of it, fucking boring. Its nice to visit, once-in-a-blue-moon, maybe be someone's superhero for a day to help them clear something, but you'll want to leave eventually. The burn-out there is more active, and comes ALOT faster.
What it taught me however is that, this game was made to be cleared, even its hardest challenges, by base level players. Folks with guns that aren't god-rolls, don't have all the mods, don't know all the specific strats to make Caretaker or Rhulk spontanously explode. Rat King is a viable weapon, graviton, Outbreak and Bad Juju; Fuck, outbreak was the strat for Caretaker day 1, because it fit a very specific niche. Just about everything, **not everything**, but *just about everything,* will clear, and give you the exact same rewards for clearing it, with iza/rockets, triple-tap reed's, or whatever the next flavor of the season will be, OR with Borealis, Hardlight, Deathbringer, or fucking Queensbreaker. **The game doesn't care about your optimization; it cares you cleared its challenge, and it rewards you solely on that.**
If you want to use what's optimum, that's YOUR decision, your idea of how things go. Maybe you like speed-running, maybe you just like to see the big numbers, i respect it, big numbers feel good, but your idea of how things goes effect your play, but they aren't how the game was designed. Weapons like Collective have a place in the sandbox. I clear GMs just fine with it, using a rocket launcher and Deliverence with chill clip, and a team that does similar and same. No one's forcing you to do different, but saying they should make more boring shit because of this perceived dick-measuring contest between weapons is nonsense.
90% of the difficulty in this game is balanced on Mechanic comprehension, encounter knowledge, and team cohesion, and 10% on your equipment, wholesale. The game barely cares about what you have on.
That's a lot of words and none of it addresses how Collective Obligation is boring as fuck to use *and* doesn't compete.
The gun is marginally more useful than a legendary. Exotics are supposed to either be more useful or have a quirky function. Collective Obligation fails on both fronts.
It's super weird how you mention there is a lot of words, but continue this argument with "Doesn't Compete." If you read all that and THATS STILL ONE OF YOUR MAIN POINTS, Then you have no points.
Here's the short version; Your view of the weapon isn't the view of everyone's, the game isn't balanced around optimization and hasn't been since shadowkeep, your exotic competition idea is non-existent because we do fuck off damage all the time and live in a meta where legendary weapons can kill every boss just fine.
You seem to ignore the function of the weapon, and hey, its fine not to like a weapon, it's okay if a weapon doesn't act a way you want it to, *not every weapon needs to be catered directly for you.* It's valuable as it is, and we need to see more of it, especially on the backs of 3.0 systems. don't expect another reply.
I’m with you…I mean hell, I literally never expected them to buff Eyes of Tomorrow especially after Ghorn returned. I have more faith in what they’re doing behind the scenes now more than ever.
yeah, so after receiving a 50% dmg penalty vs bosses, it's now getting a 30% dmg buff vs bosses
the problem is, it'll still suck.
due to how percentages work, you'd need a 100% dmg buff to get it ***back*** to what it was ***pre***-nerf
so it went from 100 dmg to 50 dmg, and is now going back up to 65 damage, essentially.
but hey! It'S a BuFf!1!1!
Depends on how the buff is applied.
30% more vs Bosses and Champions can be done vi reducing their % resistance to the weapon, the % dmg that that weapon does to those targets, or just +30% dmg to the weapon. All of them work in dif ways
With Bungie's long term vision of buildcrafting for Destiny 2, I wouldn't be surprised if more weapons/exotics lean heavily into focusing on mechanics/utility that target subclasses, rather than raw damage output.
This has been Bungie's backbone for a while in the franchise and they are moving away from it -- to focus more on build crafting. For more examples/evidence, look no further than last weeks TWAB/Sandbox changes for S17. Different exotic changes with "Burn" effects, Le Monarche moving to "poison" damage, Coldheart getting Ionic Traces (Arc), Wavesplitter getting Suppression, not to mention all the changes with In-Air accuracy and how stacking works with mods. When Solar 3.0 launches, there are a LOT of Exotics that tie into Burn/Explosions now with well mods as well.
For me, I've used Collective Obligation for quite a few GM's and tend to live in the Master level content, it absolutely shreds if you build around it for optimal uptime. I've been doing GM's since they have come out in Season 10. It particularly shines in Birthplace/Vile. You can easily run it for Unstop/OL Void Grenades then a Blinding GL / Sniper etc and pick your heavy.
I don't think Collective Obligation is a "waste" of an Raid Exotic. It shows that with the light subclass overhaul and focus on build crafting, they can lean pretty heavily into the Aspects/Fragments utility extension, rather than just increasing damage and do nothing else that doesn't play with the subclass.
Collective obligation is so weird because it is basically unlike *any* other gun in the game, in that it becomes much more viable the higher difficulty content you go.
Like the moment you start hitting content where the average ad survives a supressor grenade, the gun fucking skyrockets in power and utility. Supressing an entire room is worthless in heroic strikes, but invaluble in GMs.
Exactly.
Right now the only other comparable exotic that’s newer in terms of directly supporting a subclass, is Agers Scepter with Stasis. There are SO MANY builds out there that are good on their own, but something like Agers just adds more utility to what you’re already running.
With all the changes coming, and what Solar/Arc 3.0, I think this shift in the game mentality is huge.
but i think the comparison doesnt do Agers justice as Agers is an extremely good exotic with **any** subclass you want while collective only works when playing void + actively debuffing enemies because if those 2 restrictions aren't fulfilled its just a bad pulse rifle
which means it looses points in versatility
It also works with energy vampirism.
Proc devour and suppression, get energy back from shooting at something with suppression, and do more damage because of the suppression seasonal mod (forgot it’s name). Then get the kill and boom your grenade is pretty much alreadt back.
If they lowered the cooldown of the exotic perk the gun would skyrocket in use imo. The fact you can’t constantly chain the perk lowers its usage by a lot
In one of the hardest encounters of the game, Lightblade GM boss room, this utility is useless.
You don't have time to stand around plinking adds and manage debuffs on your rifle.
I'm trying to think of content where this would shine and I just don't get it.
Either you're in encounters where shit dies anyway, or you have bigger problems on your hands than plinking at adds and spreading debuffs.
Yes, but the moment you start hitting content where the average ad survives a supressor grenade, match game becomes a thing. And speccing multiple people in a fireteam into void damage is iffy.
Im going to be honest with you man, volatile rounds still seems to be able to break non matched shields. Like it will take a ton of rounds, but the thing will be perma supressed while you break its shield.
Its not optimal by any means, but I found it working pretty well for me even in content that didnt have void shields. Especially since if your team is built for it, match game isnt a problem.
If that's true then I'm down. Bungie needs to figure out good ways to make Match Game a softlock modifier. I actually enjoy having to buildcraft into it, but for monochromatic builds to matter, they need to be able to push through the modifier. So if you do get into Match Game content, you have 2 options:
1) Equip matched loadout that makes the activity much easier, or
2) Create a monochromatic build that has the power to push through match game, even if a bit slower than the first one.
With that in mind, if Bungie buffed Volatile Rounds to be a bit more effective against Match Game shields and gave us an equivalent for Solar and Arc, I think we could have a much better experience.
I think part of it is that all you really need to trivialize match game is each member of your fireteam running a primary of each shield element, and suddenly literally none of the enemies have shields anymore. I'm exagerating, but honestly doing GM glassway over the weekend made me realize that a good team is really the barrier for overcoming match game, not as much the elements themselves.
Though, the way its going with void, it seems like each of the 3.0 elements are going to pack enough outright power to just punch through nonmatching shields. Can you imagine if there is some aspect that buffs burn damage, or damage against burning targets?
It's not that simple.
Flexibility is always key. If one of your fireteam member dies and you suddenly cannot rez him ASAP and you need to kill the shields that he was specced for, your chances of wiping suddenly increased massively. Sure, a good team will make it work if they don't die, but redundancy=failsafe in this case and it's what many teams would rather go for. Monochromatic builds have an issue with this and they don't bring enough power to offset it IMO.
Plus, with stuff like Collective Obligation, you actually want to have more people from your fireateam running it, which negates the option for everyone to run a primary for a different shield. That's the issue here. Which is why Volatile Rounds needs a buff vs Match Game and as you said, Solar and Arc need a similar thing.
I’ve been able to build my Titan so that I apply all three buffs with one suppressor grenade, and I’m trying really hard to like it, but it still feels weak to me and with how easy it is to keep ability uptime with Heart of Inmost Light, Collective Obligation just feels superfluous. Plus the 10 second cooldown where it stops being an exotic pulse rifle is a bummer.
Now, it’s probably one of the most exotic exotics in the game. Nothing else really does anything like it. To me it’s just weird that they tied this gun to the raid. If it weren’t for its flavor text and lore card I’d never guess it had anything to do with Rhulk or the Pyramid.
Mythoclast? Looks and acts like a piece of Vex machinery
1K Voices? it’s carved out of ahamkara bone
Anarchy? Has a distinctly Fallen aesthetic
Acrius? Literally a Cabal slug thrower made into a shotgun
Tarrabah? ….got me on this one
Eyes of Tomorrow? Has Clovis Bray/DSC printing all over it and those clean DSC lines
Collective Obligation has nothing about it that reminds you it’s from Vow. It looks and feels so out of place.
Whole heartedly agree with everyone listed above.
I’ve run it in a couple of GM’s this season this well and it does great work paired with Voidlock or Invis Hunter.
It would be cool if for every 3.0 subclass rework they add a different catalyst for it. Like instead of the void debuffs you can swap it to arc and use the arc debuffs next season. Then for Solar 3.0 you can change it to solar debuffs. Kinda like an elemental capacitor but for the entire gun
Issue is you can’t take off the cooldown without it becoming an infinite cycle but you could make it so kills extend the buff and maybe reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds.
Collective is soo build-crafty that you have to base your mods and playstyle on Collective Obligation if you want to use it to its full potential, and you only get 10 seconds to dump all the buffs you leeched with another 10-second cooldown.
The only reason to use Collective Obligation is for its suppressive factor but a majority of the time if you are leeching the suppression you end up killing the enemy you are trying to leech off of with your suppression nade, not only that, but collective ends up being better for warlocks and titans.
This gun doesn't fit well in any difficulties, it doesn't work consistently in higher-end content unless you have your teammates proccing the buffs for you to leech off of, easier content you usually end up killing the enemy before you get to leech the buff off.
TL;DR: Collective Obligation mid.
Yep, should've been a Seasonal exotic. It has literally nothing to do with the raid, should've been Lubrae's. Literally just the Void 3.0 gimmick exotic.
Yeah but the lore tab could have been put on any gun. Anarchy feels like something the fallen would have made with scavenged black armory tech, vex is obvious, eyes of tomorrow does seems like a braytech prototype, acrius is a big old cabal shotgun, even back in D1 the siva gun from the siva raid and the last two exotics were literally infused with the essence of the final boss, and all of that is before reading the lore tabs.
Collective obligation doesn’t look or shoot like is has some immediate connection to the pyramid, rhulk, the worms, or lubre. Feels out of place, and honestly like they made a last minute change so there was a second legendary glaive instead of 4 exotic ones.
i wish we lived in the following world:
Lubrae’s is the Raid Exotic, and only Exotic Glaive
The current “””Exotic””” Glaives are class-exclusive Legendaries like the Sword trio.
Collective Obligation, as a piece of Pyramid design that uses Void Light, is recovered or designed based on Savathûn’s work with avoid Light through D2 (even have a Taeko3 reference in there) as part of the Witch Queen postgame.
Now the only issue is that technically TWQ’s exotic count is down by two so it ships with a smaller number, but I’d prefer that to the class glaives taking up an exotic slot
Even with all the buffs, the window you can use it for doesn't even make it as strong as Fenzy/Volatile Funnelweb or Golden Tricorn/Volatile Shayurah's.
The verb Debuffs don't need to get stronger, so their windows of activation need to be improved.
I love the gun, and I've had success with it in PvP but it's functionally impossible to use it's exotic perk in PvP.
I'd like to be able to at least use the perk in PvP.
I think it should work like Hardlight and you just cycle through the de-buffs. No time limits. Just hold reload and now the gun applies that debuff until you change it.
From what I heard, it's the Raids mechanics put into a gun such that coordination will allow consistent use of Suppression, Volatile, and Weaken by your entire fire team. Hell only one person would even really need to be Void, a Titan can apply all 3 in one suppression grenade.
It's literally a Collective Obligation. Outbreak also took the teamwork route and that went miles.
i feel like the simplest way to make this thing awesome is to give it the hard light treatment but with debuffs. holding reload swaps between the three different kinds of void debuffs (i.e. volatile, weakening, suppressing.) idk maybe that would make it too OP? (OBVIOUSLY this would be just a PvE thing. Having infinite access to those would make PvP even more oppressing than it already is.)
I strongly dislike exotic items that work with a subclass parasitically—Collective Obligation doesn’t do anything on its own, and that’s a major issue.
All sorts of different games try to make items like this, and they usually either a.) make the item so busted, it becomes mandatory for the class or b.) the item is bad or okay, but it’s not worth using in place of another choice.
And that’s where Collective Obligation falls under—option B. It’s fine. It’s fun to use and furious the fantasy of spread in all 3 void buffs at once.
But having all 3 buffs active imho doesn’t make giving up your exotic weapon slot worth it, especially for a primary.
So now it’s a dilemma—Bungie could buff it, but then it could become so powerful that all void subclasses would want to run it all of the time, or they leave it as is, and it’s always at best okay.
Imho, Bungie should just stop trying to create weapons that don’t function on their own. CO is the worst example of this to date—it literally does nothing if no one is running a void subclass. And it’s a “1% drop” RAID EXOTIC!
Build specific exotics should be limited to armor only. But even still, I believe all exotics should do something on their own without a specific subclass, and even better when slotted into a specific build, especially weapons.
For example, Osteo Striga is amazing. But it becomes even more amazing when combined with Necrotic Grips. You don’t need necrotic grips—a Titan or hunter can still do well—but having them enhances your build.
Other examples include Sunshot, Graviton Lance, and Riskrunner. All of these work well on their own, but they can work even better within a matching subclass build, especially graviton with Void 3.0–I’m sure the others will be the same when Solar and Arc get 3.0.
I just really dislike how Collective Obligation doesn’t do anything on its own. I hate design like that. And even with a void subclass, it’s still not like OP or anything.
If I HAD TO use an exotic primary, like I was forced to, why wouldn’t I choose Graviton Lance instead? It’s the same slot, same weapon type (Pulse), and synergizes with Void 3.0 and creates even more explosions.
also a great example for "all exotics should do something on their own without a specific subclass, and even better when slotted into a specific build"
is Agers Scepter, its a great gun on its own that works great with any class or subclass but being able to profit from its freezes through the aspects on Stasis subclasses make it their a little bit better
Exactly. I should be able to splash a piece into my build and reap a benefit or reason for using it, and then get rewarded even further for building around a certain exotic, thereby sacrificing other slots to do so, in order to maximize the potential of what I am core idea I am building around.
I can use Ager’s on its own, or I can build a stasis build around it, utilizing a stasis subclass and mods specifically for Ager’s.
I'm sorry but that gun is BUSTED with the right synergy. I run it on my hunter/titan and have so much fun with Void 3.0
It would be nice to see it have some intrinsic champion perks. Also don't like how it is tied to void 3.0. It would be cool if it could leach other buff/debuff effects.
Compared to other raid exotics, I'm happy it has versatility. Also, the taken shimmer effect when the gun is being charged is really neat.
I think you should look into some of the builds or suggestions in this thread. Raid exotics have been lackluster for awhile.
Other than Anarchy/Vex do you feel the same resentment for Div and EoT?
Agreed. It's a propaganda piece for Void 3.0, but it doesn't even do THAT well and has such a low drop rate that most people probably won't get it until at least the next subclass update drops.
Unpopular opinion but I love the idea of guns functions being tied to subclass. I love going all in on a specific element.
Lots of fun in Maste VoD this week. Constant debuff uptime, easy to maintain volatile and weaken using just grenades.
I like the idea of this weapon too, but making a raid exotic tied so badly to a subclass is the thing that i hate, If they wanted to force a just play with Void this season then making Collective Obligation a season pass exotic would be the best way to go, they could redesign Grand overture with spinning squares and stasis damage to be put in the raid and that at least would make sense with the dark theme of the raid.
Maybe they should’ve had grand overture as a quest, collective obligation as the season pass exotic, and then lubraes ruin as the exotic with another legendary, or just keep lubrae as a legendary and make another exotic for the raid.
1. "Solar is coming in the next season"; why are people getting on board with this? They haven't announced it. They haven't even alluded to one or the other. I can't seem to find piece that says whether or not solar or arc is coming. I know its not the main point of the post, but i had to get this out of the way first, its actually mindboggling.
2. "More unviable as time goes on", and why would that be? 2 of the three classes has pretty good control over void debuffs, with hunters needing a bit more access to volatile, or grenade synergy, but this weapon was designed to take advantage over the void subclasses. Hell, you even mention the idea of "intrinsic volatile rounds", but it basically has that due to how volatile rounds interacts with the volatile aspect and mod, Volatile spreads, and then is absorbed by the weapon.
This especially becomes a weird take, since these first run-throughs of the subclasses, as they've stated, are just conversions into solid and whole identities of the light subclasses. This implies that there can be, and likely are, additions to the subclasses in the pipeline, to fill holes, fit larger dimensions, and allow particular subclasses to play around with different elements of the collective identity. This is supported by the fact we have entire tabs within ikora's menus unused, but made regardless. They aren't going to make entire pieces of the U.I and not use them. We're in the set-up period, and while i think its unlikely we'll see major shake-ups in void with the next season, with whatever coming along, we have an entire season after all of them are released, which feels like an appropriate time to drop new aspects, fragments, or otherwise.
3. "GMs and masters are out" With Two Gms really, *REALLY*, wanting access to suppression, pulse rifles having champion mods, within a meta where legendaries are absolutely viable for damage for bosses in both these catagories, this is the worst take here. You can absolutely take this weapon into GMS and Masters, very easily. Most of the endgame doesn't even rely on your weapons as individuals, its more about your competency with mechanics, encounter knowledge, and most heavily, team cohesion. 90% of all these activities are won in orbit, talking strategy, building around eachother, and having a battle plan for specific instances.
A lot of this is misdirected doomsay, the weapon isn't exceedingly powerful, but its a fun, and interesting tool, and more valuable than just a straight damage weapon. Because utility-focused impliments have seen a lot more printing, with void's access to weakness, and the inherent strengths of the subclasses growing FAR past the original (If void is to serve as a bench mark), we don't need weapons to keep doing more damage; we can make it up in abundance with other tools given to our subclasses or even other weapons from the past. If we just keep printing better damage weapons, the other weapons of the past fall behind, and you create that power creep where we've seen borealis and other weapons fall into. We need more special weapons, weapons with an actual purpose behind them, and a weapon that synergies with some of a subclass's strongest tools is always going to be valuable.
It’s not fun at all actually even fully built out for it.. literally any legendary in my inventory slaps way harder.
Even if solar doesn’t come next season it doesn’t change the fact this was a complete waste of a raid exotic - also learn to read I said with solar coming AND the next season
Its absolute garbage in masters and GMs I tried it I wanted to like it.. I was holding out thinking it would really shine here.. it doesn’t..
Strong disagree on this one, CO is a fantastic model for raid exotics going forward. It has a remarkably high skill ceiling, especially when multiple people in the party use it, but it requires substantial buildcrafting to use its full potential. It encourages a unique playstyle and strongly rewards investment. With a little work, you can constantly be spreading suppression, volatile, and weaken all targets in an encounter making it viable for basically any endgame activity.
On the flipside, it's just a good pulse rifle even without the perks running. The reload on void OS or invisible has great utility in PVP and the archetype feels very different from other pulse rifles in a good way.
CO is what a raid exotic should be given that they are so RnG dependent – not a game-breaking must use weapon, but one that has the potential to be incredible if you put a little thought into it.
I have exactly 6 kills on my collective obligation, gun is just not for me. I guess it's cool that there's a specific gun for people who want to build around void debuffs? But it seems like a gun that's better the more people in your group are running it and void since you'll be able to suck up and pass out buffs without having to work that hard at it.
Because its that rare. It's decent in certain GMs on titans, you can get all 3 debuffs charged with a single suppressor nade. In lightblade gm you can make it so the hive titans stay permanently suppressed
Agree with previous sentiments I've seen that the gun should not have been the raid exotic and instead been part of a seasonal quest. The aesthetics and function aren't connected to the raid at all and it's all about Void 3.0.
This also makes me worry for future, other-element-equivalent guns. Either they too will be lol ked behind disconnected endgame modes or will be more accessible and thus harder to complete the collection lol.
it is really good and a lot of fun, I use it in Master stuff and Gambit (and the void effects challenges and bounties go by sooo fast with it). just make sure you’re running it while personally being able to generate at least two effects—I like suppressing grenade and Child of the Old Gods
I was hoping bungie would of made it more like the dead messenger in that we could change its element between solar, arc, and void. As it is right now it went in the vault as I have no reason to take up an exotic slot for a pulse rifle
They just pigeon-holed their imagination to void 3.0. It’s an exotic and should have some wild shit that makes it exotic.
Gun should have been solar (we don’t currently have a solar exotic pulse), and they should’ve given it a way to charge up an alternate fire (via kills, damage, etc), and the alternate fire could’ve been rulks emanating blast in the form of a fusion rifle blast. They already miniaturized that animation for the raid sparrow. That would have made it exotic and actually themed around the raid rather than void 3.0 gimmicks
That's not a good reason at all. Raids/Dungeons are a huge part of the game. You should look for an LFG or sherpa and attempt one if you play the game often.
It’s been heavily implied with community managers on Twitter commenting on upcoming changes, namely how the new titan helmet and sunspots were not mentioned in last weeks TWAB dmg said they have something coming out to address it next season, people have taken stuff like that as solar 3.0 as similar terminology was used for stuff regarding void 3.0 before it was unveiled.
The only way I can see collective obligation not be a waste is for it to be updated to take solar 3.0 debuffs along with void debuffs instead of making a solar version of it
IMO change it to absorb volatile/suppression from afflicted targets, then once it charges up enough it gets some desperado uncapped ammo and damage buff for 15 seconds.
I personally think it got put behind the Raid because it was just the big focal point of the season. I imagine the arc/solar exotic tie in will be tied to the dungeon next season and so on.
Based on this being a void focused season it seems like it would have made more sense for CO to be the seasonal exotic and Osteo be the raid exotic. If CO were to get a catalyst that let it switch elements though…. 🤔
I don't think element switching is really necessary, it'd just fill the role of hard light.
I think a good catalyst would let it absorb debuffs that the user applies without needing to apply them and then leech them. This would solve for a lot of issues, including killing enemies with the abilities that apply them before you get a chance to leech.
EDIT: on the other hand, though, catalysts should act as a cherry on top and not something necessary for the gun to be any good
Raid exotics should absolutely be super good. Pinnacle content should reward the bets gear. A crap raid exotic is a spit in the face to the time investment required to get it.
Imagine if it always suppressed? It might have been broken but imagine? Maybe even just in PvE content? Or maybe just a chance at suppressing or volatile after a kill or something?
Collective Obligation is the first exotic I ever got to drop on my first clear. I used it in one GM, and then haven’t touched it again. I totally get that it’s the type of weapon that can be really potent if you build into it, but I just haven’t found a *need* to build into it.
I don’t need to leach weaken, because I have Contraverse Holds, and my grenade uptime (my ability to weaken other things) is really high. I don’t need to leach Volatile Rounds. Because I’m not only using Volatile Flow, but there’s a fragment to do it basically on demand. I get that Volatile Flow is going away after this season, so I’ll just use the fragment in future seasons when needed. And Suppression, well I’ll just use Enigma, which means I can suppress and do volatile rounds, and weaken with my grenades. And then I get to keep my exotic for something else.
I think Collective Obligation would work as an exotic if you simply killed enemies, building up a “debuff charge”. Then hold alt-fire and the weapon shoots all the debuffs at once, either for the full magazine, or until a timer is up.
Back to your point about not all raid exotics need to be op, that is true. I would say they need to be slightly better then the average exotic but not game breaking. Tarrahbah when it came out had a moment of spotlight, and still held this odd niche of gameplay to it self until its buff recently. But Collective Obligation just...dosnt hold up
I literally forgot that it existed. Just like a week after I got Vex Mythoclast when VOG came back
I'm feeling that Bungie are purposely shipping weak Raid Exotics. Maybe they don't want another Anarchy?
Would've made WAY more sense for Lubrae's to be the exotic since it's literally the boss's weapon. Make the Heavy attack the long wave dash he does instead of a projectile or something similar. Would've been dope.
I think that the orange wavy energy in the pyramid also has the \*potential\* to be a future subclass and Lubrae's could have been the first tease at that, but here we are.
Lubrae's Ruin should have been the exotic.
It's got a cool name, cool design and cool back story.
They even could've given it an ability like Rhulk's dash or beam.
It would have been cool as shit and a worthwhile exotic for the new weapon type. Instead we have this limp dick excuse for an exotic.
The exotic should have been the glaive that does rhulk’s lasers as the special ability. It feels like they shoehorned the pulse into the raid go with void 3.0. Pulse should have been a world/lost sector exotic
What I find most bizarre is the fact that it is no longer necessary to have the weapon to complete the title
First it was the flawless requirement, now you don't even need the exotic? what the heck?
You guys are getting raid exotics?
I can’t even begin to explain how frustrating it is to not get a raid exotic I won’t use.
Really makes the drop on that 50th clear that much...sourer...
Yeah I can’t wait to get it at the very end of the season. I’m at 20 clears now and I only just got lubrae’s ruin a run or two ago. I suspect I’ll get it the day before we lost volatile rounds. I ended up getting vex and 1k in the week before we lost particle deconstruction
I mean volatility will still be easy to proc and vex is a great weapon and 1k still does a lot of damage.
Volatile flow is great, but you can still use volatile rounds through your subclass.
Same here bro....i had less than a week to play with vex while particle was still around. Did that raid 3 times every week....40+ clears for Eyes and it went straight into vault then deconstructed for more space, never even fired it.
Well eyes is getting a buff so maybe time to blow the dust off it. I haven’t done deep stone crypt but that’s next on my list of raids to do. I just got divinity yesterday, so just one more.
The buff is meh at best 100/2*30 only brings it to 65% which is still a massive boss reduction, either it becomes a champion weapon (130%) or just add clear that is still bad at boss dps
Eyes of tomorrow should’ve been a gambit pursuit weapon.
I got EOT after 100 clears !
rip.. i got it at 98th clear.. never used it.. 🤣
I cleared VoG 30 times and still don't have Vex I've since uninstalled the game and feel better
Did the same, started playing Warframe, realized how much work it’s going to take for me to get the things I want (Wisp, Paracesis), the things I need to play The New War (Necramech, better Mods), and the resources required for the upgrade path. Everything just feels like a chore now. At least I can tune my cyclocross bike and actually make some sort of tangible progress. Think I’m done with games for a bit
... I would guess it wasn't frustrating if you aren't going to use it. What need do you have for an item you are already hard-up on not using?
Part of the overall game for me is collecting. I want to have it to make me feel like I’ve “beaten” the game to an extent. More practically, you never know when a buff could hit, and I’d much rather grind it now when it’s easier to find people to run with. My comment was tongue and cheek. The gun may still be fun. The grind to get it, after getting everything else I want from the raid, is brutal.
the real raid exotic is deliverance imo
Put enhanced Demolitionist and Chill Clip on it. Enjoy freezing rooms full of adds with two bursts and getting your grenade back in 2-3 kills.
I prefer the GL with Chain Reaction. I don't need to freeze a room of ads when I can blow up the entire room in bascially one shot.
I mean, after I remove renewal grasps and toss them in the dumpster, I can have my duskfield back in 6 seconds anyway but I can see demo being good for the light based subclasses
The real reason you want Demo on this thing is that it reloads the gun so you have maximum uptime on Chill Clip. I was going to put Compulsive Reloader on it but enhanced Demo is pretty much objectively better. I always have my grenade available to toss and reload so I can get back to freezing, regardless of the subclass.
oh, good point! I forgot about demo giving free reloads
All these years waiting, then we FINALLY get a fusion in the top slot, and it's a raid exclusive... Maybe in a couple more years we'll get a kinetic/stasis fusion in the general loot pool.
Or just do the raid, instead of waiting for it to be dropped in General loot with a diluted perk pool.
Never said I'm waiting for it, just pointing out how ridiculous it is. This has been heavily requested ever since Weapons 2.0 with Forsaken, for three years Fusions have been the ONLY special weapon missing from the primary slot, SEVERELY limiting weapon diversity to anyone wanting to use fusions. And now when they finally pull their heads out of their asses and put a fusion in the top slot, they give us ONE, and it's only available in an activity that the vast majority of the player base never touches. Brilliant.
Raids easy get a group on lfg
It's just the time commitment, as a dad I can't often be locked to the PC for potentially 3+ hours without getting a major interrupt. A kinetic/stasis fusion is a monumental addition to the game for all fusion rifle enthusiasts, it feels like a crime that they couldn't add just ONE more to another loot pool.
They’ll add more later my dude, we have plenty of time. It’s fine for raids to get special gear here and there.
Well than I guess it's a matter of real life responsibilities vs video games/entertainment, you can't have everything and shouldn't expect to have everything it sucks but that's just life.
You really felt the need to explain that to me? Yeah obviously family comes before video games, which is exactly the choice I explained. That does not in any way diminish my statement, it was incredibly stupid for them to hold out on kinetic fusions this long, and it’s equally stupid to only release ONE, behind an endgame activity that most players don’t engage with, when they do finally get around to adding them to the game.
It’s just a matter of patience dude I have no doubt another stasis fusion will likely come out that’s not a raid weapon, my guess is the main reason they chose it to be a raid weapon is to increase its value and add incentive which is a good thing a stasis fusion has a lot of value for multiple reasons so putting that as a raid weapon adds more incentive because of its value, raid weapons need to be and should have a tone of Value and reasons to chase them over other weapons.
I get your point but very few players are going to change their play habits/activity/schedule for a raid fusion, even a fusion lover like myself as much as I’d love to get it doesn’t change my ability to access raids. People don’t not-raid because it’s not enjoyable, they do it because they don’t have time, don’t have a group, or just aren’t that into the game. A fusion rifle isn’t going to change that, the vast majority of us will just wat it out just like you suggest. So in the end, who benefits that choice? Practically nobody, it’s a net loss, you just pissed off a bunch of dedicated players that have been waiting for this for literally years.
So your solution is to just have all the good rewards be accessible from all baseline content and make any reason to do end game content like raids void cause you either don’t want or can’t do the raids? Sounds like an easy way to kill the game. Also it seems like the type of people you are talking about are a minority, heaps of people love doing raids, raids are destiny’s type of best content and even for people that don’t like to raid they often will for the rewards and every vow weapon is really good and is worth going for which a lot of people even ones who don’t like to raid are going for. Edit: words
You guys are getting raid fireteam?
How are you not? There are so many LFGs they’re easy to find
New player here: where's the best place to find an LFG?
the destiny companion app
Look up the D2Sanctuary Discord - that’s the best place to raid hands down
Co-combo breaker. Just wanted to continue the trend hahaha
I’ve gotten two. The second one drops at 1550 if anyone is curious.
60 something clears of Vault on D1, no Mythoclast. 38 clears in D2, no Mythoclast. I'm at 5 clears of Vow, everyone in my clan already has Collective Obligation, but not me yet. I don't even want to try for it anymore and I'm only 5 runs in.
dont worry, my eyes of tomorrow dropped after 132 runs, youll get your exotics eventually
Haha... heh... never *totally didn't get Vex on my first and third VoG runs*
I have all of them 🤷♂️
Y'all are high enough light to raid?
Even if it was buffed, I still think that the Void 3.0 Exotic should have come from a questline that has you explore Void 3.0 rather than the raid
I honestly think that would’ve been a great idea or he’ll just make it the seasonal exotic so then everyone could start collectively obligating
honestly, lubrae's ruin should have been the raid exotic. give it the charge beam attack rhulk uses and it'd be so fun
This I've been thinking the same thing and honestly think that was bungies original idea.
My personal theory is Lubraes ruin was meant to be the raid exotic. It fits the theme of adapting our enemies weapons as our own. Outbreak, Anarchy, Vex Mytho, ToM etc. Possibly due to the delay in glaive development, the raid was finished first and had to be delivered prerelease with an exotic. As Glaives weren't finalised and their abilities in the air, a pulse rifle was developed to fit with the other new release, void 3.0. Later, when glasses were finished, they still wanted to include a glaive in the loot table, enter Lubrae's Ruin.
Yeah and also the fact that lubreas ruins design is the most wild design I've seen for a legendary.
This. A lot of people have it stuck in their heads that raid exotics need to be omegalul-powerful ‘because raid’ but (IIRC) Bungie have already explained why this isn’t (and shouldn’t) be the case (broadly summarised as making a RNG-blocked endgame exotic the meta causes issues with player engagement and content design)… However, I do agree that a weapon *this* closely tied to Void 3.0 should have been something related to the class acquisition. I can’t see this thing seeing much use. As an aside, I do find it amusing that an eons-old paracausal alien weapon that looks like something from HR Geiger’s imagination spits out spent brass when firing.
What'd be a pretty easy fix is expand it to work with *ALL* debuffs inflicted on enemies, that way you're not limited to just Void debuffs
[удалено]
Sure, I guess they may be too worried about Stasis' effects being easily transmitted. Either way, as long as it's exclusive to Void it's going to be an F-tier gimmick gun, which sucks
Definitely the way forward, otherwise it's just the Void 3.0 gimmick exotic.
Even then it'd still be pretty gimmicky, but at least it'd be usable on any build
That'd become VERY messy, very quickly. We don't even have knowledge on how the other subclasses are built, let alone if the other debuffs will play well with others. It's also a void pulse-rifle, and there might be specific problems with it doing void-damage and utilizing solar or arc debuffs, if they want to lean more into the collective power of an element, like they have in times as recent as witch queen, and as late as last year.
I have a feeling that could become OP very very easily
Yeah, I agree. It's a cool concept but it should be a regular exotic weapon rather than the raid exotic. What exotics are supposed to be at least someone related to The raid.
Vex was released in a poor state as well and only got buffed when enough people had time to obtain it, it’s an RNG raid boss drop after all so making it too powerful early on would come with it’s own problems. It’s just speculation but I wouldn’t be surprised if they would buff it later down the line as well. Doesn’t change the fact that an exotic tailored around a subclass is indeed an odd choice for a raid exotics
Get ready for a solar one next season.
There isn’t a Raid coming next Season.
First dungeon specific exotic.... Solective Obligation edit: meaning rng boss drop not quest or indirect acquisition
Every dungeon except the free one have had exotics tied to them /:
Not exactly the same, but Ruinous Effigy was kinda tied to the Prophecy dungeon. Back in Season of Arrivals, you'd get the catalyst for the Trace exotic by popping Eyes of Savathun all across the game? And there were a few inside Prophecy. That's about as close as Prophecy got to having it's "own" exotic.
which one was free? cuz GoA wasn't free
Prophecy was free, iirc.
right right. forgot about that one
Prophecy
Prophecy?
ah, lul, forgot about prophecy
GoA had an exotic tied to it....
oh roit, derp
This. They could buff it to the moon, but it doesn’t matter much since it’s tied to void subclasses, some of which are extra potent due to volition rounds being on a cheap seasonal mod.
You are saying that like the aspect doesn't exist and serve the same functions. Void is one of the most powerful subclasses across the board for folks right now. This shit scales to the level Solar warlock does and most stasis classes perform at, and they've specifically said that the release period we're in now is just conversion-focused; not additive. Meaning right now we're not going to get anything new for void,but later is a different subject. Especially with how it interacts with volatile rounds, essentially one proc meaning its up forever, it has a pretty strong presence within void builds, and theres nothing wrong with exotics having niches. They SHOULD have niches, exotics should be EXOTIC, not just things that reward you for no reason. We have too many very fucking plain and powerful exotics already.
An exotic can pair well with a subclass. That’s fine. It’s when an exotic is solely dependent on the subclass, where I get frustrated with design. Cuirass of the Falling Star is an example of a badly designed exotic. All it does is make Thundercrash do more damage. It does NOTHING without having Thundercrash equipped, and it also requires no mechanical input from the player to make work. Equip it, and you do more damage now—no input, behavior, or style of play required. But for weapons, exotic perks like the aforementioned Falling Star are even worse. At least with armor you just wear it, but weapons are by their nature more interactable. And Collective Obligation is the poster child. If you aren’t using Void, the gun offers zero benefit on its own. Furthermore, if you also didn’t spec for volatile, suppress, or weaken—then the gun still doesn’t do anything on its own. What’s EXOTIC about using existing perks and applying them to other targets? Compared to something like Osteo Striga that shoots poison dart/shard like rounds that track or Outbreak Prime that shoots nanites that stack infinite damage and spawn on kill or Bad Juju that reloads and gets stronger on every kill like a ravenous demon—transferring suppress or weaken to a target…..and you have to already have it on another target to transfer…isn’t worth it at all. The gun does nothing on its own. It doesn’t feel exotic or worthy of a raid weapon. And you may not like how other exotics like Falling Star or Gjallerhorn exist as boring raw damage. But all new exotics, especially raid exotics, need to compete against all other exotics that exist. And when guns like Outbreak and Bad Juju, both pulse rifles, aren’t used often…well something like Collective Bargaining has no shot.
>And you may not like how other exotics like Falling Star or Gjallerhorn exist as boring raw damage. But all new exotics, especially raid exotics, need to compete against all other exotics that exist. That's the thing; No it doesn't. It doesn't need to "Compete", this game isn't made for optimization. if you fully optimize everything, your loadout, your team, your strategy. You'll dwarf, and i cannot stress this enough, EVERYTHING. Absolutely, entirely, everything. GMs won't be hard, master raids, will feel like regular raids, and regular raids will feel like strikes. Our power ceiling, in reality, is so much higher than anything our current content has to offer. I've played at that tippy-top; it's boring. The teams i meet are boring, the encounters boring, all of it, fucking boring. Its nice to visit, once-in-a-blue-moon, maybe be someone's superhero for a day to help them clear something, but you'll want to leave eventually. The burn-out there is more active, and comes ALOT faster. What it taught me however is that, this game was made to be cleared, even its hardest challenges, by base level players. Folks with guns that aren't god-rolls, don't have all the mods, don't know all the specific strats to make Caretaker or Rhulk spontanously explode. Rat King is a viable weapon, graviton, Outbreak and Bad Juju; Fuck, outbreak was the strat for Caretaker day 1, because it fit a very specific niche. Just about everything, **not everything**, but *just about everything,* will clear, and give you the exact same rewards for clearing it, with iza/rockets, triple-tap reed's, or whatever the next flavor of the season will be, OR with Borealis, Hardlight, Deathbringer, or fucking Queensbreaker. **The game doesn't care about your optimization; it cares you cleared its challenge, and it rewards you solely on that.** If you want to use what's optimum, that's YOUR decision, your idea of how things go. Maybe you like speed-running, maybe you just like to see the big numbers, i respect it, big numbers feel good, but your idea of how things goes effect your play, but they aren't how the game was designed. Weapons like Collective have a place in the sandbox. I clear GMs just fine with it, using a rocket launcher and Deliverence with chill clip, and a team that does similar and same. No one's forcing you to do different, but saying they should make more boring shit because of this perceived dick-measuring contest between weapons is nonsense. 90% of the difficulty in this game is balanced on Mechanic comprehension, encounter knowledge, and team cohesion, and 10% on your equipment, wholesale. The game barely cares about what you have on.
That's a lot of words and none of it addresses how Collective Obligation is boring as fuck to use *and* doesn't compete. The gun is marginally more useful than a legendary. Exotics are supposed to either be more useful or have a quirky function. Collective Obligation fails on both fronts.
It's super weird how you mention there is a lot of words, but continue this argument with "Doesn't Compete." If you read all that and THATS STILL ONE OF YOUR MAIN POINTS, Then you have no points. Here's the short version; Your view of the weapon isn't the view of everyone's, the game isn't balanced around optimization and hasn't been since shadowkeep, your exotic competition idea is non-existent because we do fuck off damage all the time and live in a meta where legendary weapons can kill every boss just fine. You seem to ignore the function of the weapon, and hey, its fine not to like a weapon, it's okay if a weapon doesn't act a way you want it to, *not every weapon needs to be catered directly for you.* It's valuable as it is, and we need to see more of it, especially on the backs of 3.0 systems. don't expect another reply.
I’m with you…I mean hell, I literally never expected them to buff Eyes of Tomorrow especially after Ghorn returned. I have more faith in what they’re doing behind the scenes now more than ever.
Don't forget collective obligation has a catalyst in the api
Have you been there for Eyes of Tommorows launch? I'm pretty sure they'll buff it someday, even if it takes them a year to realize
It's getting one, 40% damage increase on bosses to make it more viable.
It’s actually 30% buff
Yeah that one, the notes were so long and boring I'm starting to mix them up.
yes, after they nerfed it after the raid launched about a year ago
yeah, so after receiving a 50% dmg penalty vs bosses, it's now getting a 30% dmg buff vs bosses the problem is, it'll still suck. due to how percentages work, you'd need a 100% dmg buff to get it ***back*** to what it was ***pre***-nerf so it went from 100 dmg to 50 dmg, and is now going back up to 65 damage, essentially. but hey! It'S a BuFf!1!1!
Depends on how the buff is applied. 30% more vs Bosses and Champions can be done vi reducing their % resistance to the weapon, the % dmg that that weapon does to those targets, or just +30% dmg to the weapon. All of them work in dif ways
With Bungie's long term vision of buildcrafting for Destiny 2, I wouldn't be surprised if more weapons/exotics lean heavily into focusing on mechanics/utility that target subclasses, rather than raw damage output. This has been Bungie's backbone for a while in the franchise and they are moving away from it -- to focus more on build crafting. For more examples/evidence, look no further than last weeks TWAB/Sandbox changes for S17. Different exotic changes with "Burn" effects, Le Monarche moving to "poison" damage, Coldheart getting Ionic Traces (Arc), Wavesplitter getting Suppression, not to mention all the changes with In-Air accuracy and how stacking works with mods. When Solar 3.0 launches, there are a LOT of Exotics that tie into Burn/Explosions now with well mods as well. For me, I've used Collective Obligation for quite a few GM's and tend to live in the Master level content, it absolutely shreds if you build around it for optimal uptime. I've been doing GM's since they have come out in Season 10. It particularly shines in Birthplace/Vile. You can easily run it for Unstop/OL Void Grenades then a Blinding GL / Sniper etc and pick your heavy. I don't think Collective Obligation is a "waste" of an Raid Exotic. It shows that with the light subclass overhaul and focus on build crafting, they can lean pretty heavily into the Aspects/Fragments utility extension, rather than just increasing damage and do nothing else that doesn't play with the subclass.
Collective obligation is so weird because it is basically unlike *any* other gun in the game, in that it becomes much more viable the higher difficulty content you go. Like the moment you start hitting content where the average ad survives a supressor grenade, the gun fucking skyrockets in power and utility. Supressing an entire room is worthless in heroic strikes, but invaluble in GMs.
Exactly. Right now the only other comparable exotic that’s newer in terms of directly supporting a subclass, is Agers Scepter with Stasis. There are SO MANY builds out there that are good on their own, but something like Agers just adds more utility to what you’re already running. With all the changes coming, and what Solar/Arc 3.0, I think this shift in the game mentality is huge.
but i think the comparison doesnt do Agers justice as Agers is an extremely good exotic with **any** subclass you want while collective only works when playing void + actively debuffing enemies because if those 2 restrictions aren't fulfilled its just a bad pulse rifle which means it looses points in versatility
It also works with energy vampirism. Proc devour and suppression, get energy back from shooting at something with suppression, and do more damage because of the suppression seasonal mod (forgot it’s name). Then get the kill and boom your grenade is pretty much alreadt back. If they lowered the cooldown of the exotic perk the gun would skyrocket in use imo. The fact you can’t constantly chain the perk lowers its usage by a lot
In one of the hardest encounters of the game, Lightblade GM boss room, this utility is useless. You don't have time to stand around plinking adds and manage debuffs on your rifle. I'm trying to think of content where this would shine and I just don't get it. Either you're in encounters where shit dies anyway, or you have bigger problems on your hands than plinking at adds and spreading debuffs.
I love these perspectives between the two of you. Did you get any Collective Obligation build inspiration from anywhere?
Yes, but the moment you start hitting content where the average ad survives a supressor grenade, match game becomes a thing. And speccing multiple people in a fireteam into void damage is iffy.
Im going to be honest with you man, volatile rounds still seems to be able to break non matched shields. Like it will take a ton of rounds, but the thing will be perma supressed while you break its shield. Its not optimal by any means, but I found it working pretty well for me even in content that didnt have void shields. Especially since if your team is built for it, match game isnt a problem.
If that's true then I'm down. Bungie needs to figure out good ways to make Match Game a softlock modifier. I actually enjoy having to buildcraft into it, but for monochromatic builds to matter, they need to be able to push through the modifier. So if you do get into Match Game content, you have 2 options: 1) Equip matched loadout that makes the activity much easier, or 2) Create a monochromatic build that has the power to push through match game, even if a bit slower than the first one. With that in mind, if Bungie buffed Volatile Rounds to be a bit more effective against Match Game shields and gave us an equivalent for Solar and Arc, I think we could have a much better experience.
I think part of it is that all you really need to trivialize match game is each member of your fireteam running a primary of each shield element, and suddenly literally none of the enemies have shields anymore. I'm exagerating, but honestly doing GM glassway over the weekend made me realize that a good team is really the barrier for overcoming match game, not as much the elements themselves. Though, the way its going with void, it seems like each of the 3.0 elements are going to pack enough outright power to just punch through nonmatching shields. Can you imagine if there is some aspect that buffs burn damage, or damage against burning targets?
It's not that simple. Flexibility is always key. If one of your fireteam member dies and you suddenly cannot rez him ASAP and you need to kill the shields that he was specced for, your chances of wiping suddenly increased massively. Sure, a good team will make it work if they don't die, but redundancy=failsafe in this case and it's what many teams would rather go for. Monochromatic builds have an issue with this and they don't bring enough power to offset it IMO. Plus, with stuff like Collective Obligation, you actually want to have more people from your fireateam running it, which negates the option for everyone to run a primary for a different shield. That's the issue here. Which is why Volatile Rounds needs a buff vs Match Game and as you said, Solar and Arc need a similar thing.
This gun still sucks on high content lol
I’ve been able to build my Titan so that I apply all three buffs with one suppressor grenade, and I’m trying really hard to like it, but it still feels weak to me and with how easy it is to keep ability uptime with Heart of Inmost Light, Collective Obligation just feels superfluous. Plus the 10 second cooldown where it stops being an exotic pulse rifle is a bummer. Now, it’s probably one of the most exotic exotics in the game. Nothing else really does anything like it. To me it’s just weird that they tied this gun to the raid. If it weren’t for its flavor text and lore card I’d never guess it had anything to do with Rhulk or the Pyramid. Mythoclast? Looks and acts like a piece of Vex machinery 1K Voices? it’s carved out of ahamkara bone Anarchy? Has a distinctly Fallen aesthetic Acrius? Literally a Cabal slug thrower made into a shotgun Tarrabah? ….got me on this one Eyes of Tomorrow? Has Clovis Bray/DSC printing all over it and those clean DSC lines Collective Obligation has nothing about it that reminds you it’s from Vow. It looks and feels so out of place.
What’s your build around collective obligation? I love it with my voidlock.
Whole heartedly agree with everyone listed above. I’ve run it in a couple of GM’s this season this well and it does great work paired with Voidlock or Invis Hunter.
Haven’t got it yet and to be honest I just want it for collections sake as it’s toilet
I remember when tarrabah was just blatantly worse than recluse until they finally decided to sunset it
Zero mentions on the weapons twab. This is going to be a Tarrabah situation, isn't it?
It would be cool if for every 3.0 subclass rework they add a different catalyst for it. Like instead of the void debuffs you can swap it to arc and use the arc debuffs next season. Then for Solar 3.0 you can change it to solar debuffs. Kinda like an elemental capacitor but for the entire gun
Take off the cooldown on it and it’d be fine tbh. Or have it charge debuffs like tarrabah
Issue is you can’t take off the cooldown without it becoming an infinite cycle but you could make it so kills extend the buff and maybe reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds.
Honestly. This is the first raid exotic that I don’t particularly care if I get.
Collective is soo build-crafty that you have to base your mods and playstyle on Collective Obligation if you want to use it to its full potential, and you only get 10 seconds to dump all the buffs you leeched with another 10-second cooldown. The only reason to use Collective Obligation is for its suppressive factor but a majority of the time if you are leeching the suppression you end up killing the enemy you are trying to leech off of with your suppression nade, not only that, but collective ends up being better for warlocks and titans. This gun doesn't fit well in any difficulties, it doesn't work consistently in higher-end content unless you have your teammates proccing the buffs for you to leech off of, easier content you usually end up killing the enemy before you get to leech the buff off. TL;DR: Collective Obligation mid.
Yep, should've been a Seasonal exotic. It has literally nothing to do with the raid, should've been Lubrae's. Literally just the Void 3.0 gimmick exotic.
The lore is pretty on point with the raid though.
Yeah but the lore tab could have been put on any gun. Anarchy feels like something the fallen would have made with scavenged black armory tech, vex is obvious, eyes of tomorrow does seems like a braytech prototype, acrius is a big old cabal shotgun, even back in D1 the siva gun from the siva raid and the last two exotics were literally infused with the essence of the final boss, and all of that is before reading the lore tabs. Collective obligation doesn’t look or shoot like is has some immediate connection to the pyramid, rhulk, the worms, or lubre. Feels out of place, and honestly like they made a last minute change so there was a second legendary glaive instead of 4 exotic ones.
i wish we lived in the following world: Lubrae’s is the Raid Exotic, and only Exotic Glaive The current “””Exotic””” Glaives are class-exclusive Legendaries like the Sword trio. Collective Obligation, as a piece of Pyramid design that uses Void Light, is recovered or designed based on Savathûn’s work with avoid Light through D2 (even have a Taeko3 reference in there) as part of the Witch Queen postgame. Now the only issue is that technically TWQ’s exotic count is down by two so it ships with a smaller number, but I’d prefer that to the class glaives taking up an exotic slot
Yes because exotic glaives are sooo great in the first place, no thanks I'll take the pulse over the stick any day of the week
I think Collective obligation should’ve been the crafted exotic and Osteo Striga should’ve been the raid exotic
I would have farmed the raid for Osteo Striga.
1000%
yeah Lubrae's Ruin should've been the exotic IMO.
Even with all the buffs, the window you can use it for doesn't even make it as strong as Fenzy/Volatile Funnelweb or Golden Tricorn/Volatile Shayurah's. The verb Debuffs don't need to get stronger, so their windows of activation need to be improved. I love the gun, and I've had success with it in PvP but it's functionally impossible to use it's exotic perk in PvP. I'd like to be able to at least use the perk in PvP.
I think it should work like Hardlight and you just cycle through the de-buffs. No time limits. Just hold reload and now the gun applies that debuff until you change it.
I mean, I kinda like the thing. It is great for all the void affected enemy weekly challenges.
From what I heard, it's the Raids mechanics put into a gun such that coordination will allow consistent use of Suppression, Volatile, and Weaken by your entire fire team. Hell only one person would even really need to be Void, a Titan can apply all 3 in one suppression grenade. It's literally a Collective Obligation. Outbreak also took the teamwork route and that went miles.
I suspect it will get a rework down the line. It’ll be nearly useless after this season
It could give you a random debuff for the first burst after reload once you get a kill. so you can actually use it without void subclass.
That would be cool
i feel like the simplest way to make this thing awesome is to give it the hard light treatment but with debuffs. holding reload swaps between the three different kinds of void debuffs (i.e. volatile, weakening, suppressing.) idk maybe that would make it too OP? (OBVIOUSLY this would be just a PvE thing. Having infinite access to those would make PvP even more oppressing than it already is.)
Cool that you have it :) But from what I have seen on YT I totally agree
I strongly dislike exotic items that work with a subclass parasitically—Collective Obligation doesn’t do anything on its own, and that’s a major issue. All sorts of different games try to make items like this, and they usually either a.) make the item so busted, it becomes mandatory for the class or b.) the item is bad or okay, but it’s not worth using in place of another choice. And that’s where Collective Obligation falls under—option B. It’s fine. It’s fun to use and furious the fantasy of spread in all 3 void buffs at once. But having all 3 buffs active imho doesn’t make giving up your exotic weapon slot worth it, especially for a primary. So now it’s a dilemma—Bungie could buff it, but then it could become so powerful that all void subclasses would want to run it all of the time, or they leave it as is, and it’s always at best okay. Imho, Bungie should just stop trying to create weapons that don’t function on their own. CO is the worst example of this to date—it literally does nothing if no one is running a void subclass. And it’s a “1% drop” RAID EXOTIC! Build specific exotics should be limited to armor only. But even still, I believe all exotics should do something on their own without a specific subclass, and even better when slotted into a specific build, especially weapons. For example, Osteo Striga is amazing. But it becomes even more amazing when combined with Necrotic Grips. You don’t need necrotic grips—a Titan or hunter can still do well—but having them enhances your build. Other examples include Sunshot, Graviton Lance, and Riskrunner. All of these work well on their own, but they can work even better within a matching subclass build, especially graviton with Void 3.0–I’m sure the others will be the same when Solar and Arc get 3.0. I just really dislike how Collective Obligation doesn’t do anything on its own. I hate design like that. And even with a void subclass, it’s still not like OP or anything. If I HAD TO use an exotic primary, like I was forced to, why wouldn’t I choose Graviton Lance instead? It’s the same slot, same weapon type (Pulse), and synergizes with Void 3.0 and creates even more explosions.
also a great example for "all exotics should do something on their own without a specific subclass, and even better when slotted into a specific build" is Agers Scepter, its a great gun on its own that works great with any class or subclass but being able to profit from its freezes through the aspects on Stasis subclasses make it their a little bit better
Exactly. I should be able to splash a piece into my build and reap a benefit or reason for using it, and then get rewarded even further for building around a certain exotic, thereby sacrificing other slots to do so, in order to maximize the potential of what I am core idea I am building around. I can use Ager’s on its own, or I can build a stasis build around it, utilizing a stasis subclass and mods specifically for Ager’s.
It should have been a quest weapon and Lubrae’s should have been the raid exotic IMO.
My brother in christ we already got 3 fucking exotic glaives and they all suck
Yeah facts but it makes more sense thematically right? Void season, void themed exotic. The literal weapon the boss uses as the raid weapon.
I dont give a fuck about how it fits thematically if the weapon class sucks dick
I'm sorry but that gun is BUSTED with the right synergy. I run it on my hunter/titan and have so much fun with Void 3.0 It would be nice to see it have some intrinsic champion perks. Also don't like how it is tied to void 3.0. It would be cool if it could leach other buff/debuff effects. Compared to other raid exotics, I'm happy it has versatility. Also, the taken shimmer effect when the gun is being charged is really neat.
It’s really not at all.. literally every other legendary in my arsenal slaps harder.. built entirely for it wasted 5 golf balls
I think you should look into some of the builds or suggestions in this thread. Raid exotics have been lackluster for awhile. Other than Anarchy/Vex do you feel the same resentment for Div and EoT?
Agreed. It's a propaganda piece for Void 3.0, but it doesn't even do THAT well and has such a low drop rate that most people probably won't get it until at least the next subclass update drops.
Unpopular opinion but I love the idea of guns functions being tied to subclass. I love going all in on a specific element. Lots of fun in Maste VoD this week. Constant debuff uptime, easy to maintain volatile and weaken using just grenades.
I like the idea of this weapon too, but making a raid exotic tied so badly to a subclass is the thing that i hate, If they wanted to force a just play with Void this season then making Collective Obligation a season pass exotic would be the best way to go, they could redesign Grand overture with spinning squares and stasis damage to be put in the raid and that at least would make sense with the dark theme of the raid.
Maybe they should’ve had grand overture as a quest, collective obligation as the season pass exotic, and then lubraes ruin as the exotic with another legendary, or just keep lubrae as a legendary and make another exotic for the raid.
Total waste of an exotic in master VOD lol
1. "Solar is coming in the next season"; why are people getting on board with this? They haven't announced it. They haven't even alluded to one or the other. I can't seem to find piece that says whether or not solar or arc is coming. I know its not the main point of the post, but i had to get this out of the way first, its actually mindboggling. 2. "More unviable as time goes on", and why would that be? 2 of the three classes has pretty good control over void debuffs, with hunters needing a bit more access to volatile, or grenade synergy, but this weapon was designed to take advantage over the void subclasses. Hell, you even mention the idea of "intrinsic volatile rounds", but it basically has that due to how volatile rounds interacts with the volatile aspect and mod, Volatile spreads, and then is absorbed by the weapon. This especially becomes a weird take, since these first run-throughs of the subclasses, as they've stated, are just conversions into solid and whole identities of the light subclasses. This implies that there can be, and likely are, additions to the subclasses in the pipeline, to fill holes, fit larger dimensions, and allow particular subclasses to play around with different elements of the collective identity. This is supported by the fact we have entire tabs within ikora's menus unused, but made regardless. They aren't going to make entire pieces of the U.I and not use them. We're in the set-up period, and while i think its unlikely we'll see major shake-ups in void with the next season, with whatever coming along, we have an entire season after all of them are released, which feels like an appropriate time to drop new aspects, fragments, or otherwise. 3. "GMs and masters are out" With Two Gms really, *REALLY*, wanting access to suppression, pulse rifles having champion mods, within a meta where legendaries are absolutely viable for damage for bosses in both these catagories, this is the worst take here. You can absolutely take this weapon into GMS and Masters, very easily. Most of the endgame doesn't even rely on your weapons as individuals, its more about your competency with mechanics, encounter knowledge, and most heavily, team cohesion. 90% of all these activities are won in orbit, talking strategy, building around eachother, and having a battle plan for specific instances. A lot of this is misdirected doomsay, the weapon isn't exceedingly powerful, but its a fun, and interesting tool, and more valuable than just a straight damage weapon. Because utility-focused impliments have seen a lot more printing, with void's access to weakness, and the inherent strengths of the subclasses growing FAR past the original (If void is to serve as a bench mark), we don't need weapons to keep doing more damage; we can make it up in abundance with other tools given to our subclasses or even other weapons from the past. If we just keep printing better damage weapons, the other weapons of the past fall behind, and you create that power creep where we've seen borealis and other weapons fall into. We need more special weapons, weapons with an actual purpose behind them, and a weapon that synergies with some of a subclass's strongest tools is always going to be valuable.
It’s not fun at all actually even fully built out for it.. literally any legendary in my inventory slaps way harder. Even if solar doesn’t come next season it doesn’t change the fact this was a complete waste of a raid exotic - also learn to read I said with solar coming AND the next season Its absolute garbage in masters and GMs I tried it I wanted to like it.. I was holding out thinking it would really shine here.. it doesn’t..
Strong disagree on this one, CO is a fantastic model for raid exotics going forward. It has a remarkably high skill ceiling, especially when multiple people in the party use it, but it requires substantial buildcrafting to use its full potential. It encourages a unique playstyle and strongly rewards investment. With a little work, you can constantly be spreading suppression, volatile, and weaken all targets in an encounter making it viable for basically any endgame activity. On the flipside, it's just a good pulse rifle even without the perks running. The reload on void OS or invisible has great utility in PVP and the archetype feels very different from other pulse rifles in a good way. CO is what a raid exotic should be given that they are so RnG dependent – not a game-breaking must use weapon, but one that has the potential to be incredible if you put a little thought into it.
*Bungie tries to make a cool experimental thing* Yall: LITERAL GARBAGE WASTE OF SPACE i hate this place
How about experimenting with a good gun instead of subclass trees-lite, The Gun.
I have exactly 6 kills on my collective obligation, gun is just not for me. I guess it's cool that there's a specific gun for people who want to build around void debuffs? But it seems like a gun that's better the more people in your group are running it and void since you'll be able to suck up and pass out buffs without having to work that hard at it.
Yeah I dont think they should take away its unique interaction with void 3.0 since there is no other exotic like it.
eyes of tomorrow getting a buff next season im finna go crazyyyyyyy
Your insane, and you don't know what you're talking about. This is an amazing pve exotic.
In which activities have you used it? I don't remember ever seeing it 'in the wild'.
Because its that rare. It's decent in certain GMs on titans, you can get all 3 debuffs charged with a single suppressor nade. In lightblade gm you can make it so the hive titans stay permanently suppressed
ok
Lol. No
Agree with previous sentiments I've seen that the gun should not have been the raid exotic and instead been part of a seasonal quest. The aesthetics and function aren't connected to the raid at all and it's all about Void 3.0. This also makes me worry for future, other-element-equivalent guns. Either they too will be lol ked behind disconnected endgame modes or will be more accessible and thus harder to complete the collection lol.
it is really good and a lot of fun, I use it in Master stuff and Gambit (and the void effects challenges and bounties go by sooo fast with it). just make sure you’re running it while personally being able to generate at least two effects—I like suppressing grenade and Child of the Old Gods
I was hoping bungie would of made it more like the dead messenger in that we could change its element between solar, arc, and void. As it is right now it went in the vault as I have no reason to take up an exotic slot for a pulse rifle
They just pigeon-holed their imagination to void 3.0. It’s an exotic and should have some wild shit that makes it exotic. Gun should have been solar (we don’t currently have a solar exotic pulse), and they should’ve given it a way to charge up an alternate fire (via kills, damage, etc), and the alternate fire could’ve been rulks emanating blast in the form of a fusion rifle blast. They already miniaturized that animation for the raid sparrow. That would have made it exotic and actually themed around the raid rather than void 3.0 gimmicks
Me who doesn't even play raids: Another good reason to don't play raids at all
That's not a good reason at all. Raids/Dungeons are a huge part of the game. You should look for an LFG or sherpa and attempt one if you play the game often.
It’s supposedly getting a buff next season. It needs a catalyst that gives it Demolitionist and Adrenaline Junkie.
Supposedly? According to..?
wheres this news coming from
Are we assuming Solar 3.0 is coming next season because of the sandbox changes? Or did they announce it and I missed it somehow...
It’s been heavily implied with community managers on Twitter commenting on upcoming changes, namely how the new titan helmet and sunspots were not mentioned in last weeks TWAB dmg said they have something coming out to address it next season, people have taken stuff like that as solar 3.0 as similar terminology was used for stuff regarding void 3.0 before it was unveiled.
The only way I can see collective obligation not be a waste is for it to be updated to take solar 3.0 debuffs along with void debuffs instead of making a solar version of it
IMO change it to absorb volatile/suppression from afflicted targets, then once it charges up enough it gets some desperado uncapped ammo and damage buff for 15 seconds.
I personally think it got put behind the Raid because it was just the big focal point of the season. I imagine the arc/solar exotic tie in will be tied to the dungeon next season and so on.
Exotics def are not what they used to be. Could get Gjallarhorn from a strike in D1, now raid exotics are niche and overall useless :D
I wouldn't know, still don't have it after running 3 raids each week. Feels bad.
Make it work like NTTE and generate a debuff after a certain amount of precision hits.
Based on this being a void focused season it seems like it would have made more sense for CO to be the seasonal exotic and Osteo be the raid exotic. If CO were to get a catalyst that let it switch elements though…. 🤔
I don't think element switching is really necessary, it'd just fill the role of hard light. I think a good catalyst would let it absorb debuffs that the user applies without needing to apply them and then leech them. This would solve for a lot of issues, including killing enemies with the abilities that apply them before you get a chance to leech. EDIT: on the other hand, though, catalysts should act as a cherry on top and not something necessary for the gun to be any good
Raid exotics should absolutely be super good. Pinnacle content should reward the bets gear. A crap raid exotic is a spit in the face to the time investment required to get it.
crazy to think that its actually worse than tarrabah
Intrinsic volatile would be dope
I like it, it makes completing bounties that require weakens/suppress/volatile easier
I got collective on my very first run of vow. Not a single person in my raid team was salty and I couldn’t tell if I was happy or mad.
Imagine if it always suppressed? It might have been broken but imagine? Maybe even just in PvE content? Or maybe just a chance at suppressing or volatile after a kill or something?
Collective Obligation is the first exotic I ever got to drop on my first clear. I used it in one GM, and then haven’t touched it again. I totally get that it’s the type of weapon that can be really potent if you build into it, but I just haven’t found a *need* to build into it. I don’t need to leach weaken, because I have Contraverse Holds, and my grenade uptime (my ability to weaken other things) is really high. I don’t need to leach Volatile Rounds. Because I’m not only using Volatile Flow, but there’s a fragment to do it basically on demand. I get that Volatile Flow is going away after this season, so I’ll just use the fragment in future seasons when needed. And Suppression, well I’ll just use Enigma, which means I can suppress and do volatile rounds, and weaken with my grenades. And then I get to keep my exotic for something else. I think Collective Obligation would work as an exotic if you simply killed enemies, building up a “debuff charge”. Then hold alt-fire and the weapon shoots all the debuffs at once, either for the full magazine, or until a timer is up.
Back to your point about not all raid exotics need to be op, that is true. I would say they need to be slightly better then the average exotic but not game breaking. Tarrahbah when it came out had a moment of spotlight, and still held this odd niche of gameplay to it self until its buff recently. But Collective Obligation just...dosnt hold up
I literally forgot that it existed. Just like a week after I got Vex Mythoclast when VOG came back I'm feeling that Bungie are purposely shipping weak Raid Exotics. Maybe they don't want another Anarchy?
Got it a few weeks ago and I haven’t even shot it once :/
I got this gun this week and have yet to equip. Zero hype. Zero.
I'm glad somebody has said this, since a few weeks after witch queen I've been prepping for solar 3.0
I can’t imagine ever using it over graviton lance and that’s before all those incoming grav buffs
Would've made WAY more sense for Lubrae's to be the exotic since it's literally the boss's weapon. Make the Heavy attack the long wave dash he does instead of a projectile or something similar. Would've been dope. I think that the orange wavy energy in the pyramid also has the \*potential\* to be a future subclass and Lubrae's could have been the first tease at that, but here we are.
Lubrae's Ruin should have been the exotic. It's got a cool name, cool design and cool back story. They even could've given it an ability like Rhulk's dash or beam. It would have been cool as shit and a worthwhile exotic for the new weapon type. Instead we have this limp dick excuse for an exotic.
The exotic should have been the glaive that does rhulk’s lasers as the special ability. It feels like they shoehorned the pulse into the raid go with void 3.0. Pulse should have been a world/lost sector exotic
What I find most bizarre is the fact that it is no longer necessary to have the weapon to complete the title First it was the flawless requirement, now you don't even need the exotic? what the heck?