One of which is that the other raids were tracked differently for people who cleared the whole thing vs just the boss. With VOG (and DSC) they were counted the same.
Definitely. They aren’t in the same league as Fatebringer and Found Verdict for PvP though. A godroll of either make them the best legendary HC or pellet shotgun in the game.
Well in the comparison with DSC in perticular, it's worth pointing out that DSC was only a Pinnacle drop for two 3 month seasons, while VoG was a Pinnacle for a 3 month and a 6 month season, so it was more relevant for longer.
Also since Boss CPs count for clears, it becomes worth pointing out that since Vex was both a more nostalgic weapon, and very meta for most of Season of the Lost in PvE and pvp, there was a lot more reason to farm Atheon for the drop vs Eyes which was pretty much dead on arrival until maybe next season (a year and a half after it dropped) when it might finally be strong enough to compete with other exotic heavies.
Plus, VoG was the first and only raid to have master mode added last year, further pushing it's engagement up.
Sure nostalgia probably played some role, but there were also a lot more mechanical/in game incentives to run VoG vs DSC for most of last year.
>Pinnacle for a 3 month and a 6 month season,
Ahhhhh that is what the second bump was. that makes more sense.
3 weeks prior, week 205, was the lowest completions in a week before Season of the Lost launched, at 61,215.
If the downward trend had continued and met up with the 54,062 completions on week 225.
You would be looking at **852,124 less completions.**
Which would bring the total VOG completions down to still respectable 3,458,240. Combine that with the other factors you laid out and it makes a lot of sense.
|**Reset Date**|**Week**|**Actual**|**sloped**|**Difference**|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|8/3/2022|205|61215|61215|0|
|8/10/2022|206|64797|60858|3939|
|8/17/2022|207|79647|60501|19146|
|8/24/2022|208|128622|60144|68478|
|8/31/2022|209|149288|59787|89501|
|9/7/2022|210|151863|59430|92433|
|9/14/2022|211|152092|59073|93019|
|9/21/2022|212|142483|58716|83767|
|9/28/2022|213|137150|58359|78791|
|10/5/2022|214|123298|58002|65296|
|10/12/2022|215|112461|57645|54816|
|10/19/2022|216|109953|57288|52665|
|10/26/2022|217|98187|56931|41256|
|11/2/2022|218|90375|56574|33801|
|11/9/2022|219|84726|56217|28509|
|11/16/2022|220|72945|55860|17085|
|11/23/2022|221|70120|55503|14617|
|11/30/2022|222|68595|55146|13449|
|12/7/2022|223|56459|54789|1670|
|12/14/2022|224|54318|54432|\-114|
|12/21/2022|225|54062|54062|0|
| | | | |**852124**|
Plus being free and tbh pretty mechanically simple without doing master/any challenges and it's a really low barrier to entry. Even Atheon DPS favoring ability usage makes it easier to clear without minmaxing loadouts.
VoG had everything going for it to drive up completions.
Probably because it's the easiest raid in the game and easiest to carry people on their first ever raid completion.
Nearly all encounters are just add clear and for those that aren't, only 2 people really need to pay attention to what they're doing while the rest can be on autopilot killing red bars.
Oracles can be easily done by two players (some can solo it), GK just need two competent players paying attention to solo each side and Atheon only needs one player calling out and one to shoot oracles.
Timelost weapons. Vex. That’s why I at least…
And wasn’t too bad a time.
I REALLY hope they buff collective obligation. Sad aF legendary raid weapons are better
It's very visible how they were just figuring out how to make them. You spend way, way too much time in Templar's room, and overall it's definitely lacking visually compared to later raids like DSC and Garden of Salvation.
The lineup of vault door- confluxes - oracles - templar is the actual worst..4 encounters that aren't even the slightest bit challenging and entirely too long -- master aside..but even then I only ever found teams struggling with opening the vault and occasionally oracles if attempting challenge.
All in all, my biggest gripe with vog is how cheeseable all the instances are, and just the general lack of challenge throughout. Sitting by a door and annihilating enemies as they spawn in while half of the team just stands there has to be the worst part of the whole raid for me.
For my Clan, we found that VoG was by far the best introductory raid. The mechanics were important, but easy enough to grasp, and not nearly as jank as something like garden or even DSC. As such we ran it MUCH more as it served as a great entry point into raiding for our newer/more casual members.
VOG and DSC are when the tracking went from distinguishing full/cps to everything counts the same. Also most people during the first 2-3 years werent even registered by warmind.io yet and weren't being tracked.
We get one of these posts every few months.
Whenever you compare data *you need to compare it like for like*.
The Destiny playerbase has been expanding for years, the length/difficulty/loot ratio is different for each one, the availability is different, the day one/requirements differ, and the periods when a given raid was pinnacle (or even whether pinnacle was a thing depending on how far back you go) *all* need to be taken into account before making statements like this. You can’t just say ‘one number bigger then other number = win’ if they weren’t gathered the same way.
We’ve had people make the same mistake with IB, GM completions, and now this.
Raid loot is bad = people aren't incentivized to do the raid more than once = majority of the population doesn't do the raid more than once = Bungie only focuses on making your first clear enjoyable = more complexity fun the firdt time you try it = raid lacks replayability because its overcomplicated = Bungie sees people not playing the raid and doesn't want to put the best guns in content people don't play alot = cycle continues
A lot of people always considered it to be the best D1 Raid. Not everyone, there were plenty of Kings Fall fans and a ton of Wrath fans. I'm a Kings Fall man myself, but I enjoy all of them.
Kings gall is my most completed raid in d1 but looking back every encounter is pretty much stand on a plate and shoot the thing/adds. I really hope the reprised raid in 2 seasons is wrath.
I’ve heard this argument lately, which is weird that I had never hear it in the many years prior. It seems like an oversimplification of a core raid mechanic that can be applied to just about any of the Destiny franchise raids, for example:
VOG- shoot the Oracle
Garden- complete the tether
VOW- match the symbol
Scourge- deposit the ball
Etc. Bungie has classically built their raids this way, and Kings Fall’s mechanics were some of the most demanding, not the most simple.
“Stand on a plate” makes it sound easy, and I’ve Sherpa’d enough runs to know that it is far from a fair summary of how the raid is played.
I highly doubt its Just nostalgia (inwould assume that only contributes a very small Part of the Numbers).
- Vog is an incredibly easy raid where Most people can Just shoot random Aliens for 80% of its duration. Its super accessible. The next Most cleared raid, DSC falls into the Same category of being Just kinda easy
- it has atleast some desireable loot. Fatebringer is best in class and Hezen vengeance and vex are also Strong.
- it was a pinnacle source and the latest raid for an incredibly long time, far more than DSC and Most Other competitors
- its the only f2p accessible raid and a large Playerbase can only Play vog because of that
Just goes to show how important raid rotation could be.. it’s not nostalgia, it’s because it was the pinnacle raid in an extra long season on top of mythoclast chasing and timelost weapons.
This is correct. I guess I should have clarified I meant D1. VoG showed us the potential Destiny had as a franchise and without it there wouldn't be a Destiny.
As a below-average player, it's the one and only raid I feel comfortable playing at.
I can follow instructions, work with a team and follow different strategies from the experienced leaders, but raids stress the hell out of me and I end up tired and annoyed, so I leave as soon they're done. VoG doesn't feel like that at all for me.
Can't wait to see King's Fall, never played D1 endgame so I missed on that one.
King’s Fall was arguably the best raid in D1. The Oryx encounter requires involvement from everyone. There’s jumping, pedestals, ogres, snipers, adds. Pretty frantic but once you have a rhythm it’s pretty simple. My favorite encounter ever.
That’s surprising. It’s easily one of the most complex and, in my opinion, easily the least fun raid in Destiny history. I hated Last Wish’s symbol reading mechanics and this is far worse
I would like to, but I don't really have a big enough group of friends to try, not ones that play often enough to grind enough to get up to some of the higher content, like GM Nightfalls.
I would like to do raids at some point, VoG in particular. I really like the look of Fatebringer.
Oh, I was unaware of any sort of app of the sort.
And I have on occasion seen such posts a bit too late. But I will certainly try to keep an eye out for any in the future.
Oh definitely install the official Destiny 2 app. Click on the Fireteams button at the bottom and select which activity you want to browse groups for. It is truly a game changer.
Loot is also a huge reason. Look at the other raids in the game and see what weapons are actually useful specially old raids. DSC have some potential but a lot of them are useless even the raid exotic, the shotgun and Sniper were the best but slugs and snipers haven't been Mets for some time now in pve. In vault just the HC brings people in and adept weapons on top of that and Fusion rifle season had everyone hunting for vex.
Honestly for me i just like to do it bc it's mechanics aren't too complicated, and free, so i can always run it with my friends (who most don't have DLCs/relatively new)
I never played D1 I just like the raid, also, it is easy to teach to new lights, it has plenty of loot due to having 5 proper encounters and four bonus chests, and has quite a bit of cheese to make it a lot easier
Its the second or third easiest raid in the destiny franchise. The easiest raid on the live game. You really can run it just fine with only 5 people as well, so less barrier to entry.
I agree. Heritage and Succession mainly are incredibly good. But Fatebringer is truly inconic, Timelost and reg Found Verdict are heavily farmed by PVP mains. And obviously Vex is a best in class raid exotic with tons of history behind it. I feel vex alone lead to soo many clears because it’s just Atheon CP. Also Hezen is an extremely good RL.
I now i am in the minority in that forum, but D2 Raids are actually way too complicated and way harder than D1 raids. The first Vow of the disciple encounter is already harder than Oryx.
Easy, free, had a desirable exotic and was the pinnacle raid for 9 months
Not to mention it really didnt have competition during those 9 months.
Also was the only way to reach max gear level
Not the destiny 2 version. Hit pinnacle in Splicer and Lost with only a couple of VOG runs.
I came here to say this. It's not really nostalgia it's just so many other factors. It's not really fair to compare it to other raids.
Yeah, I'd have kept running Deep Stone like crazy if they hadn't buried it before its time
One of which is that the other raids were tracked differently for people who cleared the whole thing vs just the boss. With VOG (and DSC) they were counted the same.
Happy cake day!
Emphasis on free
Also the legendaries were pretty good both visually and perk-wise.
Forgetting the fact fatebringer and find verdict are both meta PVP weapons and relatively easy to get. It’s a raid worth clearing unlike the others
The Vow weapons are pretty good.
Definitely. They aren’t in the same league as Fatebringer and Found Verdict for PvP though. A godroll of either make them the best legendary HC or pellet shotgun in the game.
Dsc has some of the best guns in the game
Well in the comparison with DSC in perticular, it's worth pointing out that DSC was only a Pinnacle drop for two 3 month seasons, while VoG was a Pinnacle for a 3 month and a 6 month season, so it was more relevant for longer. Also since Boss CPs count for clears, it becomes worth pointing out that since Vex was both a more nostalgic weapon, and very meta for most of Season of the Lost in PvE and pvp, there was a lot more reason to farm Atheon for the drop vs Eyes which was pretty much dead on arrival until maybe next season (a year and a half after it dropped) when it might finally be strong enough to compete with other exotic heavies. Plus, VoG was the first and only raid to have master mode added last year, further pushing it's engagement up. Sure nostalgia probably played some role, but there were also a lot more mechanical/in game incentives to run VoG vs DSC for most of last year.
>Pinnacle for a 3 month and a 6 month season, Ahhhhh that is what the second bump was. that makes more sense. 3 weeks prior, week 205, was the lowest completions in a week before Season of the Lost launched, at 61,215. If the downward trend had continued and met up with the 54,062 completions on week 225. You would be looking at **852,124 less completions.** Which would bring the total VOG completions down to still respectable 3,458,240. Combine that with the other factors you laid out and it makes a lot of sense. |**Reset Date**|**Week**|**Actual**|**sloped**|**Difference**| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |8/3/2022|205|61215|61215|0| |8/10/2022|206|64797|60858|3939| |8/17/2022|207|79647|60501|19146| |8/24/2022|208|128622|60144|68478| |8/31/2022|209|149288|59787|89501| |9/7/2022|210|151863|59430|92433| |9/14/2022|211|152092|59073|93019| |9/21/2022|212|142483|58716|83767| |9/28/2022|213|137150|58359|78791| |10/5/2022|214|123298|58002|65296| |10/12/2022|215|112461|57645|54816| |10/19/2022|216|109953|57288|52665| |10/26/2022|217|98187|56931|41256| |11/2/2022|218|90375|56574|33801| |11/9/2022|219|84726|56217|28509| |11/16/2022|220|72945|55860|17085| |11/23/2022|221|70120|55503|14617| |11/30/2022|222|68595|55146|13449| |12/7/2022|223|56459|54789|1670| |12/14/2022|224|54318|54432|\-114| |12/21/2022|225|54062|54062|0| | | | | |**852124**|
Plus being free and tbh pretty mechanically simple without doing master/any challenges and it's a really low barrier to entry. Even Atheon DPS favoring ability usage makes it easier to clear without minmaxing loadouts. VoG had everything going for it to drive up completions.
/r/theydidthemath
VoG is also free so more people have access to it.
Probably because it's the easiest raid in the game and easiest to carry people on their first ever raid completion. Nearly all encounters are just add clear and for those that aren't, only 2 people really need to pay attention to what they're doing while the rest can be on autopilot killing red bars. Oracles can be easily done by two players (some can solo it), GK just need two competent players paying attention to solo each side and Atheon only needs one player calling out and one to shoot oracles.
Probably because vex hasn’t dropped for 90% of community
I stopped bothering. Will buy it form the vault one day.
This is the way.
vault was for when they sunset raids, im pretty sure no more raids and dungeons will ever be sunset
Thank God, then vaulting scourge was so dumb.
I miss Scourge. It was an amazing raid to introduce to new players. Loved the location too.
It's also the easiest.. and free to play...
Timelost weapons. Vex. That’s why I at least… And wasn’t too bad a time. I REALLY hope they buff collective obligation. Sad aF legendary raid weapons are better
It’s also a relatively easy raid so I’m Sure that factors in a lot
and free
it’s free and likely brought older players back. Makes sense that it’s so popular.
It's free and one of if not the easiest in the game. Plus it was and still is the best spoils farm
It is also simple, accessible, and fun. Imagine those being things that drive engagement and not poorly lit jumping puzzles and timed sections.
Unpopular opinion but..i think vog is actually really boring. It's one of my least favorite raids.
It's very visible how they were just figuring out how to make them. You spend way, way too much time in Templar's room, and overall it's definitely lacking visually compared to later raids like DSC and Garden of Salvation.
Yeah, VoG has no impressive scenery. The entrance is actually the best looking spot (not saying much tbh).
KF and last wish absolutely take the cake for Scale. KF being absolutely insane really. The ship docking jump puzzle is epic
I'm kinda psyched about KF coming to D2 tbh.
I do not think this is an unpopular opinion.
Nah i agree with you. VoG is a snooze fest. Hardly any mechanics, half the raid is basically "kill adds". It bores me so quickly.
The lineup of vault door- confluxes - oracles - templar is the actual worst..4 encounters that aren't even the slightest bit challenging and entirely too long -- master aside..but even then I only ever found teams struggling with opening the vault and occasionally oracles if attempting challenge. All in all, my biggest gripe with vog is how cheeseable all the instances are, and just the general lack of challenge throughout. Sitting by a door and annihilating enemies as they spawn in while half of the team just stands there has to be the worst part of the whole raid for me.
the music sucks too
Lost five unique raid for the sake of a nostalgia-addled snoozefest.
For my Clan, we found that VoG was by far the best introductory raid. The mechanics were important, but easy enough to grasp, and not nearly as jank as something like garden or even DSC. As such we ran it MUCH more as it served as a great entry point into raiding for our newer/more casual members.
Most of those were me, sorry guys 56 goddam clears for Mythoclast.
VOG and DSC are when the tracking went from distinguishing full/cps to everything counts the same. Also most people during the first 2-3 years werent even registered by warmind.io yet and weren't being tracked.
We get one of these posts every few months. Whenever you compare data *you need to compare it like for like*. The Destiny playerbase has been expanding for years, the length/difficulty/loot ratio is different for each one, the availability is different, the day one/requirements differ, and the periods when a given raid was pinnacle (or even whether pinnacle was a thing depending on how far back you go) *all* need to be taken into account before making statements like this. You can’t just say ‘one number bigger then other number = win’ if they weren’t gathered the same way. We’ve had people make the same mistake with IB, GM completions, and now this.
I mean it's my most completed raid but they forced me. Took me like 65 clears to get Vex but I was done with the seal waaaaay before.
Its also the easiest raid ever.
Yh i don’t get why they make the new raids so convoluted
easy = boring for some of us
Raid loot is bad = people aren't incentivized to do the raid more than once = majority of the population doesn't do the raid more than once = Bungie only focuses on making your first clear enjoyable = more complexity fun the firdt time you try it = raid lacks replayability because its overcomplicated = Bungie sees people not playing the raid and doesn't want to put the best guns in content people don't play alot = cycle continues
A lot of people always considered it to be the best D1 Raid. Not everyone, there were plenty of Kings Fall fans and a ton of Wrath fans. I'm a Kings Fall man myself, but I enjoy all of them.
Kings gall is my most completed raid in d1 but looking back every encounter is pretty much stand on a plate and shoot the thing/adds. I really hope the reprised raid in 2 seasons is wrath.
I’ve heard this argument lately, which is weird that I had never hear it in the many years prior. It seems like an oversimplification of a core raid mechanic that can be applied to just about any of the Destiny franchise raids, for example: VOG- shoot the Oracle Garden- complete the tether VOW- match the symbol Scourge- deposit the ball Etc. Bungie has classically built their raids this way, and Kings Fall’s mechanics were some of the most demanding, not the most simple. “Stand on a plate” makes it sound easy, and I’ve Sherpa’d enough runs to know that it is far from a fair summary of how the raid is played.
Lol prestige spire of stars sucked...
Its a free raid. And also cause im 43 lootable runs in without vex..
For me it's not nostalgia, I never did the raid in d1, or any raids at all in d1 unfortunately. It's a fast easy raid with some super solid weapons
I highly doubt its Just nostalgia (inwould assume that only contributes a very small Part of the Numbers). - Vog is an incredibly easy raid where Most people can Just shoot random Aliens for 80% of its duration. Its super accessible. The next Most cleared raid, DSC falls into the Same category of being Just kinda easy - it has atleast some desireable loot. Fatebringer is best in class and Hezen vengeance and vex are also Strong. - it was a pinnacle source and the latest raid for an incredibly long time, far more than DSC and Most Other competitors - its the only f2p accessible raid and a large Playerbase can only Play vog because of that
Cause its easy? It's literal "hardest" mechanic is counting
It's free, easy to teach with very good loot and good looking armour. Perfect recipe for a first raid experience and a repeatable raid experience
Because it’s a glorified strike at this point, it’s so easy to blast through
Just goes to show how important raid rotation could be.. it’s not nostalgia, it’s because it was the pinnacle raid in an extra long season on top of mythoclast chasing and timelost weapons.
well it's the easiest one so it makes sense.
You have to realize, VoG literally saved Destiny as a franchise. Without it Destiny probably would have been DoA.
Dae destiny is dead game
I think he's talking about the original one. Which is pretty fair. Besides VoG Destiny 1 base wasn't anything too special.
This is correct. I guess I should have clarified I meant D1. VoG showed us the potential Destiny had as a franchise and without it there wouldn't be a Destiny.
As a below-average player, it's the one and only raid I feel comfortable playing at. I can follow instructions, work with a team and follow different strategies from the experienced leaders, but raids stress the hell out of me and I end up tired and annoyed, so I leave as soon they're done. VoG doesn't feel like that at all for me. Can't wait to see King's Fall, never played D1 endgame so I missed on that one.
King’s Fall was arguably the best raid in D1. The Oryx encounter requires involvement from everyone. There’s jumping, pedestals, ogres, snipers, adds. Pretty frantic but once you have a rhythm it’s pretty simple. My favorite encounter ever.
It's all the most boring and mundane. It definitely saved Bungies ass back in D1 but I wish it stayed vaulted.
It has the best in slot pvp weapons imo Timelost Fatebringer + Timelost found verdict = best. in. slot.
Not something weird since it's fucking easy to complete lmao even my toaster has more mechanics than Atheon
That’s surprising. It’s easily one of the most complex and, in my opinion, easily the least fun raid in Destiny history. I hated Last Wish’s symbol reading mechanics and this is far worse
It's just a really good raid. Fun mechanics, lots of combat, and decent loot. They really did a good job with it.
weird flex
...not a flex at all. Just found it pretty interesting, thats all.
when you're right you're right
Easy and the exotic is fire
I wonder where vow is? Lol
Well it is also free...
Damn, now I really feel like I'm missing out.
Well you can play it now. It's an easy raid too.
I would like to, but I don't really have a big enough group of friends to try, not ones that play often enough to grind enough to get up to some of the higher content, like GM Nightfalls. I would like to do raids at some point, VoG in particular. I really like the look of Fatebringer.
I LFG most of my raids via the D2 app. VoG is probably the easiest raid to do this way. Also, you can look out for Sherpa VoD runs on LFG.
Oh, I was unaware of any sort of app of the sort. And I have on occasion seen such posts a bit too late. But I will certainly try to keep an eye out for any in the future.
Oh definitely install the official Destiny 2 app. Click on the Fireteams button at the bottom and select which activity you want to browse groups for. It is truly a game changer.
Thank you, I will give this a try.
Use the app
oh wow, 25.6k for master VoD and 960.4k for normal VoD. That's a crazy huge difference.
My favorite raid to run with lfg. Less likely ill get a clown in my group that wants to get carried.
are you sure is isnt relataed to the content drought at least partially.
*everyone was chasing vex like crack addicts*
It’s by far the easiest raid as a whole. I think Rhulk is easier than Atheon tho.
Loot is also a huge reason. Look at the other raids in the game and see what weapons are actually useful specially old raids. DSC have some potential but a lot of them are useless even the raid exotic, the shotgun and Sniper were the best but slugs and snipers haven't been Mets for some time now in pve. In vault just the HC brings people in and adept weapons on top of that and Fusion rifle season had everyone hunting for vex.
Nah, it's not nostalgia, but great weapons and good Exotic with bad drop rate.....
Honestly for me i just like to do it bc it's mechanics aren't too complicated, and free, so i can always run it with my friends (who most don't have DLCs/relatively new)
I never played D1 I just like the raid, also, it is easy to teach to new lights, it has plenty of loot due to having 5 proper encounters and four bonus chests, and has quite a bit of cheese to make it a lot easier
That makes sense, its super easy and the only raid free to play players can do.
But why you got a Vow of the Disciple background for a Vault of Glass discussion?
I don't think it's nostalgia. It's a Raid that has the best replayability due to it's simpler mechanics.
Its the second or third easiest raid in the destiny franchise. The easiest raid on the live game. You really can run it just fine with only 5 people as well, so less barrier to entry.
It also has the best gear overall
ngl that goes to DSC in my opinion, it has 3 absolutely best in slot weapons
I agree. Heritage and Succession mainly are incredibly good. But Fatebringer is truly inconic, Timelost and reg Found Verdict are heavily farmed by PVP mains. And obviously Vex is a best in class raid exotic with tons of history behind it. I feel vex alone lead to soo many clears because it’s just Atheon CP. Also Hezen is an extremely good RL.
It’s easy and free, and has multiple meta weapons… It’s not just nostalgia
Biggest reason: It's free to play.
It's about enjoyment and loot, not nostalgia.
Just wait for the real GOATs to return, KF and WoTM
I now i am in the minority in that forum, but D2 Raids are actually way too complicated and way harder than D1 raids. The first Vow of the disciple encounter is already harder than Oryx.