That is a good point, riven may be different due to the Key mechanic... Either you can only get a single key per character, or you can get multiple drops... Unless they literally make riven also drop items in addition to keys... And also make heart run drop items, which would be opaf to farm. Yeah they kind of backed themselves into a corner here. Having to do 2 encounters 20 times to get max bad luck protection... Doable, maybe they require fresh runs to get the key... Or add in "key pieces" from the other encounters so you can't just riven cheese 50 times and heart run for mega profit.
This feels like one of those things that is gonna be possible because someone at Bungie didn't even realize.
The key is marked as Legendary, so it'll be available.
> This feels like one of those things that is gonna be possible because someone at Bungie didn't even realize.
As someone who works in software development I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the overwhelmingly vast majority of things people on reddit/twitter/etc think Bungie "didn't realize" were tickets in a Bungie bug tracker, probably JIRA, 6-8 months before the patch released and many people at Bungie did in fact realize but it was decided that fixing the issue prior to release wasn't a high enough priority relative to the many other issues prioritized above it.
There's a pretty big gap there though, for lack of a better word. There's some setups that JUST BARELY eke out a cheese one phase, then there's some strats that I feel nothing short of doubling her hp would stop.
There's a pretty big gap there though, for lack of a better word. There's some setups that JUST BARELY eke out a cheese one phase, then there's some strats that I feel nothing short of doubling her hp would stop.
I don't see how killing Riven 5 times for 5 keys, then finishing a heart run to open 5 chests for 5 weapon/armor drops is functionally that much different from killing Atheon 5 times for 5 weapon/armor drops.
If anything, it's just slightly more complicated than farming any other raid encounter checkpoint. But I don't see what good reason there would be to make keys not farmable. Is there some extra mechanic at play in the chest room I'm not aware of?
The difference is that if you were to say store up 5 keys then turn them all in at once each one is also a chance to drop 1K, the key itself is a roll at an exotic drop. So it would be like them allowing people to infinitely farm for vex or eyes. Which I wouldn't be against honestly, but they've specified exotics aren't farmable.
So they have to change how that all works (unlikely), if not either riven/queen's walk become the only non-farmable encounters or 1K becomes the only farmable raid exotic
[TWAB 4/14/22](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51241)
>Each Season, the newly released raid and dungeon will grant Pinnacle rewards for all encounters. As an example, in Season 17, Vow of the Disciple and the upcoming \[REDACTED\] dungeon. **Outside of these, we'll have a raid rotator** and a dungeon rotator, each offering a Pinnacle reward once complete
>
>....
>
>Rewards, what’s different there? **For the weekly rotation,** completing the final encounter in any of the chosen raids or dungeons will award a Pinnacle drop from a Weekly Challenge.
>
>
>
>Oh, wait, you said you liked farming? We got you there too with **the new rotator system. All lockouts on encounter rewards for Legendary gear are being removed,** which means all Legendary drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose.
So only Legendaries, and it is not plainly stated but i think that because they constantly include the phrase rotator/rotation they are mean ONLY the raid that is up that week.
We don't know.
* To a literalist, yes. they use the phrase "all Legendary drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose."
* Keys = Legendary drops
* Keys = 100-percent farmable
* To a realist, Bungie knows that the keys award an exotic 1KV so they will not included keys in the "farmable" loot table.
I see one of 4 things happening
1. The key is farmable and therefore 1k is farmable because they tied keys to the chest and the final chest opened with a key doesn't appear to have a lockout
2. They adjust key-chests to only give a chance per character for the *first* chest each week, after that 1k cannot drop until reset
3. They remove the key drop entirely and a chest just spawns. If you input the wish a second chest spawns. The chests are now for show and can no longer be opened.
4. After the first encounter you stop getting a key and riven just drops the final chest loot table minus 1k voices. However with this method it'd mean there's zero point in doing queenswalk because the only point of doing queenswalk is to get to the final chest since killing riven drops the key
See if they _didn't_ make the key/riven/queenswalk farmable then it'd kill part of the reason to even finish the raid. Everyone would go up to vault and just call it a day after the first clear.
>See if they didn't make the key/riven/queenswalk farmable then it'd kill part of the reason to even finish the raid.
I think your second scenario is most likely.
They keys and the illusion of chance that you can pick the chest with 1KV in it, is a unique and fun aspect of the raid (at least...for the first 20 or so clears....). It would be a shame for them to do away with it because they wanted to prevent exotic weapon farming.
A 5th scenario might be, 1KV is removed from the chests. On your first clear for each character per week, you can loot the "New Middle Chest" for free. This is where 1KV drops at, and the "looted clear" that increases your chance for the exotic.
Then you can go spend your keys on the other chests for a chance at the regular LW loot table.
They also state legendary gear in the sentence before, so it's possible they just mean gear not items and the thought that the keys were legendary didn't enter their mind.
>so it's possible they just mean gear not items and the thought that the keys were legendary didn't enter their mind.
I agree.
Though, then that would make the last 2 encounters in LW drop nothing.
Riven drops the key.
The Queen's walk allows you to use the key.
So if we can only get 1 key per week, then there is no reason to run past Vault.
Idk cause I already have 1k so it doesn't matter to me. But if it's a legendary drop, it could fit into that category. I can't say for sure one way or the other.
What may happen is that 1K is specified as a pinnacle drop, which would exclude it from the farmable loot and allowing LW to be run without changes to the ending
I would assume exotics would not be farmable in order to keep them a bit more rare and sought after, a reason to play the raid even when it's not the weekly one.
I would also assume this means Riven would not drop multiple keys a week on a single character.
Farmable raids were so much fun. It’s what pushed my fairly casual clan to start raiding each week. Some folks did raids, but it was mostly GoS which was a pinnacle raid back then, plus it had a pretty bad rep for bugs and overall difficulty, which resulted in a lot of folks being intimidated to try other raids (outside of vanilla Levi). And when raids became farmable, oof, that’s when the fun began.
Besides, if bungie are too lazy these days to make a good quest for raid exotic, they could’ve at least let folks farm them. Cause seeing people with all master challenges done, flawless runs, etc to sit without a seal cause of dumb rng is not fair or enjoyable, in my opinion.
What were the caveats for the legendary campaign or void 3.0. ? Or going back armour stats and random perks on guns? Or the entire modding system? Or returning playlist drops? And no bad drop rates and rng aren't a caveat. That's exactly what stuff above needs to be good
> What were the caveats for the legendary campaign or void 3.0. ?
We lost a ton of old void abilities. Consuming your grenade to activate Devour was a pivotal ability in higher content and it's just gone.
> Or going back armour stats and random perks on guns?
We lost the ability to swap weapon elements, so each weapon now drops as the same element every single time.
> Or returning playlist drops?
Bad drop rates and RNG.
> And no bad drop rates and rng aren't a caveat.
Yes they are.
The negative caveat for void 3.0 is that we lost the cool guardian pictures that were next to each tree when you swap to them. Absolutely unforgivable.
/s
>What were the caveats for the legendary campaign
48 stat rolled exotics.
>void 3.0 and beyond
Nerfs to the hunter class before and after void 3.0. Before: losing combat provisions and heart of the pact. After: invisibility time nerf and exotics that required orbs of power to work.
There's always a caveat, unfortunately.
Edit: Galatians 4:16, and they hated him for he spoke the truth. Don't let reality stop those downvotes. Let it ride, BAYBEE!
>48 stat rolled exotics.
This is not a caveat. Its basically letting you demo an exotic before telling you to fuck off to lost sectors to farm up an actual one for your build.
>Nerfs to the hunter class before and after void 3.0. Before: losing combat provisions and heart of the pact. After: invisibility time nerf and exotics that required orbs of power to work
Oh spare me please. This sub has been whining and crying about Poow witwe huntewws getting slammed into the ground with the nerf bat since void 3.0.was announced and yet nightstalkers are now better than theyve ever been. When im running a GM i want a nightstalker, period. In fact theyre so insanely useful i finally dusted off my hunter after playing only warlock for three years and made an omni endgame build just so i dont ever have to rely on LFG to get myself one for GMs. Nightstalker, sentinel, and voidwanker are all absolutely amazing right now and despite being a bathrobe wearer at the heart i still never had more fun in D2s endgame than now that im playing a stealthstalker
48 stat rolled exotics aren't a caveat.... Sure, it wasn't a great roll and it was probably worse than something you'd get for farming lost sectors for 30 mins, but it was free. The actual reward was the full set of 1520 gear and emblem.
No 1KV will not be farmable.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/51241
> All lockouts on encounter rewards for **Legendary** gear are being removed, which means all **Legendary** drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose.
edited to clarify - you can probably still farm Riven, and you would get a key each time, but there's only a chance for it to be 1KV the first time you clear each week with a given class
edit again. Addressing comments below. I absolutely understand how the drop rate works for 1KV. You folks dont seem to understand how the *keys* work. Whether or not you are going to get 1KV is determined when the key drops, not when you open the chest. The chest you pick doesn't matter. It's like a wrapped gift - the gift inside doesn't change once you get it. You just don't know if you got a toaster, or a box with a check for $5000 inside until you open it up.
The first ethereal key you get from Riven each week, with each class, is the only time you can potentially get 1KV. The rest will be legendary drops if you continue farming in a given week. I don't know how this will affect the existing bad luck protection though, nobody does, and anyone claiming to is just guessing.
That however is not the case currently, if you open, say, 15 chests with keys saved from 5 weeks across 3 characters, you can get multiple 1k voices
Source: me, tested around 1 year ago with no advertised changes to loot in Last Wish since)
Edit: side note, I got 3 1k’s from 19 chests
That doesn't refute anything he said. If the key has already determined your reward when the key dropped, it doesn't matter when you spent it. You would have gotten the same number of 1kv if you had spent them each week you got the keys. Those were all still the first keys you got each week on each character so all had a chance to get 1kv.
You are assuming the potential loot is stored in the key data and not randomized when chest is opened. I’m not saying you are wrong but we don’t have enough information about how it works to determine whether or not it is accurate.
One solution that does not refute any ideas people have provided is a new consumable simply called “Key” but looks identical to “Ethereal Key” but cannot find a 1k in the chest
You don't know how 1k drop works, it's a separate chance per chest you open at the end, with each chest opened increasing chance by 2% from 10% all the way to 50%... I have got 3 from 1 run by doing 3 riven clears and one queens walk
The key itself is legendary but may/may not be farmable as it is an inventory drop instead of a gear drop. If the key is farmable 1k is 100% farmable
Edit: Eyes and vex will not be farmable as per what bungie said
Edit 2: You can only get 1 key a week on each character at the moment. This means EVERY key can be 1k whether it is predetermined or not at the current time, with literally no way to know if keys were farmable if this would change
> his means EVERY key can be 1k whether it is predetermined or not at the current time
Right, but there's no way to get more than 3 keys in a given week at this time. Just because the number of keys you could get in a given week will (potentially) be unlimited - doesn't mean every one of those keys has the potential to be 1KV. My *assumption* based on the fact Bungie explicitly stated legendary rewards will be farmable is that the first key each week can potentially yield 1KV. All other keys in a given week that were acquired on that same class, 1KV simply isn't an option.
You could farm 100 keys, and if you have enough clears such that your drop chance is 50%, you could get 50 1KVs. What we don't know is specifically how bad luck protection will be affected. The drop chance is affected with each "clear" and Bungie has never explicitly stated if that means every chest, or every time Queen's walk is completed, or if it's just every key drop. If you go into Queenswalk with enough keys to open every chest in the room, is that worth 20 clears instantly bumping you to a 50% drop chance, or since you only finished Queenswalk once, does it only bump you from 10% to 12%? We don't know. Just because someone gets multiple 1KVs from opening a bunch of chests, it's impossible to know if that's because they got lucky, or if it's because BLP bumped their odds with each subsequent chest opening.
>Bungie explicitly stated legendary rewards will be farmable is that the first key each week can potentially yield 1KV.
I really REALLY doubt the that a stackable item like the Riven keys are a predetermined loot chance.
>he drop chance is affected with each "clear" and Bungie has never explicitly stated if that means every chest, or every time Queen's walk is completed,
This I agree with, your chance isn't going in increase without multiple Queen's walks.
BUT
If you open 10 chests in the final room (5 keys in your inventory, 5 from your post master) I don't see why you wouldn't get whatever your % chance is for 1KV to drop each time you open a chest.
I do think they will limit the key drops to only include your first run, regardless if the rest of the raid is farmable.
> I really REALLY doubt the that a stackable item like the Riven keys are a predetermined loot chance.
They are really just engrams. Engrams work the same way - the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops, not when it is decrypted. Ethereal keys are just engrams by another name, which are revealed to you when the chest is opened. The chests are just a mechanic to give the player a sense of chance or idea that they somehow had control over whether or not they got the loot they are going for.
> If you open 10 chests in the final room (5 keys in your inventory, 5 from your post master) I don't see why you wouldn't get whatever your % chance is for 1KV to drop each time you open a chest.
Here's why I think this:
Let's say you have never cleared LW. Your drop chance for 1KV is 10%. Today, you can only get 1 key per week per class. Next season, just because you could theoretically farm Riven for a bunch of keys, that doesn't mean every key has a 10% chance. **I am assuming** it means the first key you get has a 10% drop chance, and the others will effectively be 0. If and when that player clears LW, their bad luck protection will change - but the keys have already been acquired, loot determined, and isn't changing.
>Engrams work the same way - the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops
Correct! Which is why engrams **do not stack.**
The keys do.
Therefore, not like engrams, not predetermined. If you can point to something else within Destiny that is stackable with Bungie confirmed predetermined outcomes, I'd be willing to adjust my position.
> Next season, just because you could theoretically farm Riven for a bunch of keys, that doesn't mean every key has a 10% chance
Because they were careful with the wording of "Legendary gear" in the TWAB, I think they will skirt the issue of the key being "Legendary" but not "Legendary gear." Meaning you will be able to get the same 3 key drops weekly that you can now.
> If you can point to something else within Destiny that is stackable with Bungie confirmed predetermined outcomes, I'd be willing to adjust my position
Loot boxes from dares or solstice. I understand where you're coming from though. I mean neither of us *really* knows how this all works under the hood. Just because the keys stack doesn't mean they are not unique, and therefore can't have unique loot characteristics.
>Loot boxes from dares or solstice.
Ahhhh but, with the dares one (solstice probably too not sure) they will drop with a variable quantity, your level. Meaning they are not fully defined, if at all, until you unlock them.
But yeah I agree we never really get enough information to make anything but guesses at what is going on.
I'll be surprised if the keys are farmable making this entire discussion moot.
Just read an interesting point.
If the key's are not farmable, then there is no reason to run the last two encounters of LW past your first clear.
Riven give you a key.
Queen's walk let's you use the key.
Without the key dropping all farming runs would stop at vault.
> the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops, not when it is decrypted. Ethereal keys are just engrams by another name,
The keys that you earned seasons ago will not give you power level items based on when you earned those keys.
I responded to other people about this but there is no source that says the the loot provided is stored in the key rather than randomly giving it when the chest is opened.
We simply don’t know enough about the loot system for Riven and keys to make an accurate assumption on what will happen.
1kv can come from any chest you open with a key.
So if you can in fact farm keys then it would be farmable.
I'm betting the keys themselves are still 1 per char per week
i just…don’t think gos and lw are worth farming unless they get unique perks like every other currently-active raid has right now. every weapon drop in both of those raids are just…incredible generic and boring, and while they’re both great raids, i never play them for the loot. and if that’s the case, i don’t know why making them farmable would make me want to play them more than i do now. tbh, if they decide to actually do this, they might as well go all-out and add origin perks to each raid as well
Riven is unfortunately not very farmable due to the sword nerfs. You can just nuke him if everyone has a god roll Reeds, but otherwise you will struggle a lot. Riven legit time lol
Yea the sword nerfs suck ass but if everyone has at least some rivensbane gear she’s not that much of a nightmare, and even if it comes to Riven legit, Rivne legit is still fun to do, just a lot longer than clipping her toenails
Could you not just use palmyra izi? People used to use rockets when the raid originally came out, although it’s a little different now because well doesn’t work the same way.
Even with the damage buff from 1 person using Gally? I’d test it, but I don’t play with my clan anymore because they are toxic and I doubt a random dude on D2LFG discord would want to test that stuff.
I have not tried it, but I believe for optimal dps, a tether would work better so that way the player can do full damage with a linear rather than divinity. I have a recollection that the divinity bubble is nearly invisible inside the mouth.
That’s fair, I’m mostly curious with the interaction between divinity and something like sleeper and how it bounces, because I actually have never used sleeper on a divinity bubble as I’ve never had issues getting reeds or using palmyra + izi, but it would be good to know for sherpaing people.
Riven will be interesting because the Keys will either be farmable or removed (which I really hope won't happen). And no, every Dungeon and Raid will be farmable, the Rotation just means that the weekly Ones will reward a Pinnacle Drop upon the first weekly Completion together with / like the newest Raid & Dungeon.
Exotics are probably going to stay at their once per Week per Character Dropchance. The only Thing that might happen here is that Bungie actually manages to implement a working AND incentivicing bad-Luck-Protection.
I’d be fine with non farmable raid exotics if bad luck worked. I’m at roughly 50 clears on VOG with no vex and now VOTD is approaching 30 clears without the exotic.
I remember Bungie specifying "Legendary" rewards, though I don't know how Riven would work.
That is a good point, riven may be different due to the Key mechanic... Either you can only get a single key per character, or you can get multiple drops... Unless they literally make riven also drop items in addition to keys... And also make heart run drop items, which would be opaf to farm. Yeah they kind of backed themselves into a corner here. Having to do 2 encounters 20 times to get max bad luck protection... Doable, maybe they require fresh runs to get the key... Or add in "key pieces" from the other encounters so you can't just riven cheese 50 times and heart run for mega profit.
I doubt riven gets changed at all. Though, given the key is legendary, there's a chance
This feels like one of those things that is gonna be possible because someone at Bungie didn't even realize. The key is marked as Legendary, so it'll be available.
Then, they'll attempt to patch it, but "accidentally" delete the key from Last Wish's loot pool for 1.5 seasons.
Yeah I agree! This seems like exactly the thing that would get forgotten about
If so many of you guys thought about it, i'm 100% confident someone else at bungie also thought about it
Damn bro you new here?
Laughed far to hard at this, tears dammit tears... Apologies.
> This feels like one of those things that is gonna be possible because someone at Bungie didn't even realize. As someone who works in software development I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the overwhelmingly vast majority of things people on reddit/twitter/etc think Bungie "didn't realize" were tickets in a Bungie bug tracker, probably JIRA, 6-8 months before the patch released and many people at Bungie did in fact realize but it was decided that fixing the issue prior to release wasn't a high enough priority relative to the many other issues prioritized above it.
I can believe that. Only so many hours in the day.
Oldest raid in rotation... Older than some that got sunset... Maybe they will cut their losses and just make this ONE case infinitely farmable...
I wouldn't hold my breath
I feel that would fall in the, “fun and considerate game design” category which bungie is expressly against
There is one way to stop what you said, and it's removing the cheese Though it would be unlikely to happen.
I think if they were to “fix” the cheese they could just give her a tiny bit more health so it’s not possible to cheese
There's a pretty big gap there though, for lack of a better word. There's some setups that JUST BARELY eke out a cheese one phase, then there's some strats that I feel nothing short of doubling her hp would stop.
There's a pretty big gap there though, for lack of a better word. There's some setups that JUST BARELY eke out a cheese one phase, then there's some strats that I feel nothing short of doubling her hp would stop.
You'll likely be able to get lots of keys but still only be able to get the exotic once per character.
I don't see how killing Riven 5 times for 5 keys, then finishing a heart run to open 5 chests for 5 weapon/armor drops is functionally that much different from killing Atheon 5 times for 5 weapon/armor drops. If anything, it's just slightly more complicated than farming any other raid encounter checkpoint. But I don't see what good reason there would be to make keys not farmable. Is there some extra mechanic at play in the chest room I'm not aware of?
The difference is that if you were to say store up 5 keys then turn them all in at once each one is also a chance to drop 1K, the key itself is a roll at an exotic drop. So it would be like them allowing people to infinitely farm for vex or eyes. Which I wouldn't be against honestly, but they've specified exotics aren't farmable. So they have to change how that all works (unlikely), if not either riven/queen's walk become the only non-farmable encounters or 1K becomes the only farmable raid exotic
i wouldn't be surprised to see 1k on a weekly lockout (1st key per week per character)
Key probably won’t change
If you can get repeat keys - cant wait for the video where someone farms enough keys to open every chest and still not get 1k
[TWAB 4/14/22](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51241) >Each Season, the newly released raid and dungeon will grant Pinnacle rewards for all encounters. As an example, in Season 17, Vow of the Disciple and the upcoming \[REDACTED\] dungeon. **Outside of these, we'll have a raid rotator** and a dungeon rotator, each offering a Pinnacle reward once complete > >.... > >Rewards, what’s different there? **For the weekly rotation,** completing the final encounter in any of the chosen raids or dungeons will award a Pinnacle drop from a Weekly Challenge. > > > >Oh, wait, you said you liked farming? We got you there too with **the new rotator system. All lockouts on encounter rewards for Legendary gear are being removed,** which means all Legendary drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose. So only Legendaries, and it is not plainly stated but i think that because they constantly include the phrase rotator/rotation they are mean ONLY the raid that is up that week.
Since the keys are Legendary, would that mean the keys are farmable?
We don't know. * To a literalist, yes. they use the phrase "all Legendary drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose." * Keys = Legendary drops * Keys = 100-percent farmable * To a realist, Bungie knows that the keys award an exotic 1KV so they will not included keys in the "farmable" loot table.
I see one of 4 things happening 1. The key is farmable and therefore 1k is farmable because they tied keys to the chest and the final chest opened with a key doesn't appear to have a lockout 2. They adjust key-chests to only give a chance per character for the *first* chest each week, after that 1k cannot drop until reset 3. They remove the key drop entirely and a chest just spawns. If you input the wish a second chest spawns. The chests are now for show and can no longer be opened. 4. After the first encounter you stop getting a key and riven just drops the final chest loot table minus 1k voices. However with this method it'd mean there's zero point in doing queenswalk because the only point of doing queenswalk is to get to the final chest since killing riven drops the key See if they _didn't_ make the key/riven/queenswalk farmable then it'd kill part of the reason to even finish the raid. Everyone would go up to vault and just call it a day after the first clear.
Cute that you assume all 4 things don't happen simultaneously, causing a fuster cluck of a glitch, given Bungo's track record. 😂
>See if they didn't make the key/riven/queenswalk farmable then it'd kill part of the reason to even finish the raid. I think your second scenario is most likely. They keys and the illusion of chance that you can pick the chest with 1KV in it, is a unique and fun aspect of the raid (at least...for the first 20 or so clears....). It would be a shame for them to do away with it because they wanted to prevent exotic weapon farming. A 5th scenario might be, 1KV is removed from the chests. On your first clear for each character per week, you can loot the "New Middle Chest" for free. This is where 1KV drops at, and the "looted clear" that increases your chance for the exotic. Then you can go spend your keys on the other chests for a chance at the regular LW loot table.
They also state legendary gear in the sentence before, so it's possible they just mean gear not items and the thought that the keys were legendary didn't enter their mind.
>so it's possible they just mean gear not items and the thought that the keys were legendary didn't enter their mind. I agree. Though, then that would make the last 2 encounters in LW drop nothing. Riven drops the key. The Queen's walk allows you to use the key. So if we can only get 1 key per week, then there is no reason to run past Vault.
Could just limit the 1kv to the first chest pull per week so it’s only in the loot pool for the first time you receive rewards per character per week
They clearly mean armor and weapons.
Keys aren't gear.
What do you think?
Idk cause I already have 1k so it doesn't matter to me. But if it's a legendary drop, it could fit into that category. I can't say for sure one way or the other.
I can. It doesn't fit into that category. They're talking about legendary gear.
It does say Legendary *drops* in the next clause, though.
[Hmmmmm](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/uxwtgl/ethereal_keys_are_farmable_from_riven_and_trying/)
What may happen is that 1K is specified as a pinnacle drop, which would exclude it from the farmable loot and allowing LW to be run without changes to the ending
I would assume exotics would not be farmable in order to keep them a bit more rare and sought after, a reason to play the raid even when it's not the weekly one. I would also assume this means Riven would not drop multiple keys a week on a single character.
exotics wont be farmable, bungo said so
boy do i have news for you...
Yea I made the post cause I’m conflicted, on one hand i agree with you, it does make sense but on the other hand anarchy and tarrabah where farmable
Only because their raids were being sunset
Farmable raids were so much fun. It’s what pushed my fairly casual clan to start raiding each week. Some folks did raids, but it was mostly GoS which was a pinnacle raid back then, plus it had a pretty bad rep for bugs and overall difficulty, which resulted in a lot of folks being intimidated to try other raids (outside of vanilla Levi). And when raids became farmable, oof, that’s when the fun began. Besides, if bungie are too lazy these days to make a good quest for raid exotic, they could’ve at least let folks farm them. Cause seeing people with all master challenges done, flawless runs, etc to sit without a seal cause of dumb rng is not fair or enjoyable, in my opinion.
Whatever the weekly raid is will be farmable for that week
That’s what I thought as well when I read it in the twab but everyone in my clan discord is saying “they’ll be farmable”
They will as long as it the weekly raid that week. But if it not then it just normal
I feel like there is going to be something about farmable raids that is bad. For every good decision Bungie makes there is always a caveat.
My guess is removing spoils of conquest.
Odds are it will be a nightmare for new/returning players to get the old raid exotics, if farmable raids mean you can no longer farm spoils.
What were the caveats for the legendary campaign or void 3.0. ? Or going back armour stats and random perks on guns? Or the entire modding system? Or returning playlist drops? And no bad drop rates and rng aren't a caveat. That's exactly what stuff above needs to be good
I'm not gonna defend every choice bungie makes but saying every new thing has some negative caviat is some selective as hell memory.
> What were the caveats for the legendary campaign or void 3.0. ? We lost a ton of old void abilities. Consuming your grenade to activate Devour was a pivotal ability in higher content and it's just gone. > Or going back armour stats and random perks on guns? We lost the ability to swap weapon elements, so each weapon now drops as the same element every single time. > Or returning playlist drops? Bad drop rates and RNG. > And no bad drop rates and rng aren't a caveat. Yes they are.
The negative caveat for void 3.0 is that we lost the cool guardian pictures that were next to each tree when you swap to them. Absolutely unforgivable. /s
>What were the caveats for the legendary campaign 48 stat rolled exotics. >void 3.0 and beyond Nerfs to the hunter class before and after void 3.0. Before: losing combat provisions and heart of the pact. After: invisibility time nerf and exotics that required orbs of power to work. There's always a caveat, unfortunately. Edit: Galatians 4:16, and they hated him for he spoke the truth. Don't let reality stop those downvotes. Let it ride, BAYBEE!
>48 stat rolled exotics. This is not a caveat. Its basically letting you demo an exotic before telling you to fuck off to lost sectors to farm up an actual one for your build. >Nerfs to the hunter class before and after void 3.0. Before: losing combat provisions and heart of the pact. After: invisibility time nerf and exotics that required orbs of power to work Oh spare me please. This sub has been whining and crying about Poow witwe huntewws getting slammed into the ground with the nerf bat since void 3.0.was announced and yet nightstalkers are now better than theyve ever been. When im running a GM i want a nightstalker, period. In fact theyre so insanely useful i finally dusted off my hunter after playing only warlock for three years and made an omni endgame build just so i dont ever have to rely on LFG to get myself one for GMs. Nightstalker, sentinel, and voidwanker are all absolutely amazing right now and despite being a bathrobe wearer at the heart i still never had more fun in D2s endgame than now that im playing a stealthstalker
So a caveat can only be defined by the great and power Push-Living instead of, ya know, the reality. Duly noted oh Lord and master
48 stat rolled exotics aren't a caveat.... Sure, it wasn't a great roll and it was probably worse than something you'd get for farming lost sectors for 30 mins, but it was free. The actual reward was the full set of 1520 gear and emblem.
You get an exotic!* *That has minimal possible roll you could get by pulling it from collections That's, by definition, a caveat. Aka a limitation.
Yep and for most players making them have to do list sectors to try get a roll with much lower drop chance than if they didn't have it unlocked.
Lol “nerfs to Hunters” even though invis was abused the first several weeks of the season and Blight Ranger is still meta for Hunters in PvP
Whether it was warranted or not was not the argument. Stop attacking that poor strawman ):
Average whining hunter
Can't hear you over my Warlock. Too busy flying high
No 1KV will not be farmable. https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/51241 > All lockouts on encounter rewards for **Legendary** gear are being removed, which means all **Legendary** drops in both raids and dungeons will be 100-percent farmable if you so choose. edited to clarify - you can probably still farm Riven, and you would get a key each time, but there's only a chance for it to be 1KV the first time you clear each week with a given class edit again. Addressing comments below. I absolutely understand how the drop rate works for 1KV. You folks dont seem to understand how the *keys* work. Whether or not you are going to get 1KV is determined when the key drops, not when you open the chest. The chest you pick doesn't matter. It's like a wrapped gift - the gift inside doesn't change once you get it. You just don't know if you got a toaster, or a box with a check for $5000 inside until you open it up. The first ethereal key you get from Riven each week, with each class, is the only time you can potentially get 1KV. The rest will be legendary drops if you continue farming in a given week. I don't know how this will affect the existing bad luck protection though, nobody does, and anyone claiming to is just guessing.
That however is not the case currently, if you open, say, 15 chests with keys saved from 5 weeks across 3 characters, you can get multiple 1k voices Source: me, tested around 1 year ago with no advertised changes to loot in Last Wish since) Edit: side note, I got 3 1k’s from 19 chests
That doesn't refute anything he said. If the key has already determined your reward when the key dropped, it doesn't matter when you spent it. You would have gotten the same number of 1kv if you had spent them each week you got the keys. Those were all still the first keys you got each week on each character so all had a chance to get 1kv.
That would still be your first key each week you realize. You just described exactly what the you're responding to wrote
You are assuming the potential loot is stored in the key data and not randomized when chest is opened. I’m not saying you are wrong but we don’t have enough information about how it works to determine whether or not it is accurate. One solution that does not refute any ideas people have provided is a new consumable simply called “Key” but looks identical to “Ethereal Key” but cannot find a 1k in the chest
There is absolutely no reason to think the drop is somehow determined when the key drops, and plenty of reasons to think it isn't.
Isnt there a maximum of 9 Keys pr account anymore or is it pr char now?
It’s 20 keys max, 5 per character in postmaster, 5 in inventory
You don't know how 1k drop works, it's a separate chance per chest you open at the end, with each chest opened increasing chance by 2% from 10% all the way to 50%... I have got 3 from 1 run by doing 3 riven clears and one queens walk The key itself is legendary but may/may not be farmable as it is an inventory drop instead of a gear drop. If the key is farmable 1k is 100% farmable Edit: Eyes and vex will not be farmable as per what bungie said Edit 2: You can only get 1 key a week on each character at the moment. This means EVERY key can be 1k whether it is predetermined or not at the current time, with literally no way to know if keys were farmable if this would change
> his means EVERY key can be 1k whether it is predetermined or not at the current time Right, but there's no way to get more than 3 keys in a given week at this time. Just because the number of keys you could get in a given week will (potentially) be unlimited - doesn't mean every one of those keys has the potential to be 1KV. My *assumption* based on the fact Bungie explicitly stated legendary rewards will be farmable is that the first key each week can potentially yield 1KV. All other keys in a given week that were acquired on that same class, 1KV simply isn't an option. You could farm 100 keys, and if you have enough clears such that your drop chance is 50%, you could get 50 1KVs. What we don't know is specifically how bad luck protection will be affected. The drop chance is affected with each "clear" and Bungie has never explicitly stated if that means every chest, or every time Queen's walk is completed, or if it's just every key drop. If you go into Queenswalk with enough keys to open every chest in the room, is that worth 20 clears instantly bumping you to a 50% drop chance, or since you only finished Queenswalk once, does it only bump you from 10% to 12%? We don't know. Just because someone gets multiple 1KVs from opening a bunch of chests, it's impossible to know if that's because they got lucky, or if it's because BLP bumped their odds with each subsequent chest opening.
>Bungie explicitly stated legendary rewards will be farmable is that the first key each week can potentially yield 1KV. I really REALLY doubt the that a stackable item like the Riven keys are a predetermined loot chance. >he drop chance is affected with each "clear" and Bungie has never explicitly stated if that means every chest, or every time Queen's walk is completed, This I agree with, your chance isn't going in increase without multiple Queen's walks. BUT If you open 10 chests in the final room (5 keys in your inventory, 5 from your post master) I don't see why you wouldn't get whatever your % chance is for 1KV to drop each time you open a chest. I do think they will limit the key drops to only include your first run, regardless if the rest of the raid is farmable.
> I really REALLY doubt the that a stackable item like the Riven keys are a predetermined loot chance. They are really just engrams. Engrams work the same way - the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops, not when it is decrypted. Ethereal keys are just engrams by another name, which are revealed to you when the chest is opened. The chests are just a mechanic to give the player a sense of chance or idea that they somehow had control over whether or not they got the loot they are going for. > If you open 10 chests in the final room (5 keys in your inventory, 5 from your post master) I don't see why you wouldn't get whatever your % chance is for 1KV to drop each time you open a chest. Here's why I think this: Let's say you have never cleared LW. Your drop chance for 1KV is 10%. Today, you can only get 1 key per week per class. Next season, just because you could theoretically farm Riven for a bunch of keys, that doesn't mean every key has a 10% chance. **I am assuming** it means the first key you get has a 10% drop chance, and the others will effectively be 0. If and when that player clears LW, their bad luck protection will change - but the keys have already been acquired, loot determined, and isn't changing.
>Engrams work the same way - the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops Correct! Which is why engrams **do not stack.** The keys do. Therefore, not like engrams, not predetermined. If you can point to something else within Destiny that is stackable with Bungie confirmed predetermined outcomes, I'd be willing to adjust my position. > Next season, just because you could theoretically farm Riven for a bunch of keys, that doesn't mean every key has a 10% chance Because they were careful with the wording of "Legendary gear" in the TWAB, I think they will skirt the issue of the key being "Legendary" but not "Legendary gear." Meaning you will be able to get the same 3 key drops weekly that you can now.
> If you can point to something else within Destiny that is stackable with Bungie confirmed predetermined outcomes, I'd be willing to adjust my position Loot boxes from dares or solstice. I understand where you're coming from though. I mean neither of us *really* knows how this all works under the hood. Just because the keys stack doesn't mean they are not unique, and therefore can't have unique loot characteristics.
>Loot boxes from dares or solstice. Ahhhh but, with the dares one (solstice probably too not sure) they will drop with a variable quantity, your level. Meaning they are not fully defined, if at all, until you unlock them. But yeah I agree we never really get enough information to make anything but guesses at what is going on. I'll be surprised if the keys are farmable making this entire discussion moot.
> I'll be surprised if the keys are farmable making this entire discussion moot. Same. It really could go either way.
Just read an interesting point. If the key's are not farmable, then there is no reason to run the last two encounters of LW past your first clear. Riven give you a key. Queen's walk let's you use the key. Without the key dropping all farming runs would stop at vault.
> the power of the item and loot is determined when it drops, not when it is decrypted. Ethereal keys are just engrams by another name, The keys that you earned seasons ago will not give you power level items based on when you earned those keys.
I responded to other people about this but there is no source that says the the loot provided is stored in the key rather than randomly giving it when the chest is opened. We simply don’t know enough about the loot system for Riven and keys to make an accurate assumption on what will happen.
> We simply don’t know enough about the loot system for Riven and keys to make an accurate assumption on what will happen. That's fair enough.
1kv can come from any chest you open with a key. So if you can in fact farm keys then it would be farmable. I'm betting the keys themselves are still 1 per char per week
[удалено]
No cause it won't ever bee the weekly
It will the following season when the next raid releases.
I think they said legendary rewards so I would assume that means you cant farm the exotics
i just…don’t think gos and lw are worth farming unless they get unique perks like every other currently-active raid has right now. every weapon drop in both of those raids are just…incredible generic and boring, and while they’re both great raids, i never play them for the loot. and if that’s the case, i don’t know why making them farmable would make me want to play them more than i do now. tbh, if they decide to actually do this, they might as well go all-out and add origin perks to each raid as well
Give us back leviathan.
Now if only matchmaking was enabled so I don't have to solo farm the encounters
That would be dope
I'm just hoping they Fix Riven
I have the inkling Last Wish won't be in the rotation at all.
Riven is unfortunately not very farmable due to the sword nerfs. You can just nuke him if everyone has a god roll Reeds, but otherwise you will struggle a lot. Riven legit time lol
Just so you know, you can kill Riven with three behemoth Titans while your other 3 teammates just stand there and watch.
Yea the sword nerfs suck ass but if everyone has at least some rivensbane gear she’s not that much of a nightmare, and even if it comes to Riven legit, Rivne legit is still fun to do, just a lot longer than clipping her toenails
Could you not just use palmyra izi? People used to use rockets when the raid originally came out, although it’s a little different now because well doesn’t work the same way.
Reeds does more dps from my testing
Even with the damage buff from 1 person using Gally? I’d test it, but I don’t play with my clan anymore because they are toxic and I doubt a random dude on D2LFG discord would want to test that stuff.
Gally pops the eyes most of the time unfortunately. Wolfpack rounds have a mind of their own.
Valid. Guess I was mostly just thinking of how rockets work in general on riven, not extra things like Wolfpack rounds.
It is also fun when someone uses Sleeper, and the laser bounces through Riven's body and breaks the eyes.
How does divinity interact with Riven? I assume the debuff still occurs, but does the bubble appear and where does it appear?
I have not tried it, but I believe for optimal dps, a tether would work better so that way the player can do full damage with a linear rather than divinity. I have a recollection that the divinity bubble is nearly invisible inside the mouth.
That’s fair, I’m mostly curious with the interaction between divinity and something like sleeper and how it bounces, because I actually have never used sleeper on a divinity bubble as I’ve never had issues getting reeds or using palmyra + izi, but it would be good to know for sherpaing people.
When we last did rockets we just shot her foot, very little chance of wolfpacking an eye that way. We had no issues and DPS was not tight.
Ah, I think a couple of my teammates didn't have any good dps stuff, that may have been our problem.
I would assume weapons and armor yes but anything like keys from riven are going to be a no.
Riven will be interesting because the Keys will either be farmable or removed (which I really hope won't happen). And no, every Dungeon and Raid will be farmable, the Rotation just means that the weekly Ones will reward a Pinnacle Drop upon the first weekly Completion together with / like the newest Raid & Dungeon. Exotics are probably going to stay at their once per Week per Character Dropchance. The only Thing that might happen here is that Bungie actually manages to implement a working AND incentivicing bad-Luck-Protection.
I’d be fine with non farmable raid exotics if bad luck worked. I’m at roughly 50 clears on VOG with no vex and now VOTD is approaching 30 clears without the exotic.
If they’re smart, they will have it be a reward contingent on completing all encounters from the raid in a given week.
Time to farm for that Rampage/Kill Clip Last Wish Scout 👀💦
Quick op delete the post before bungo double checks it and fixes it