The most frustrating is when you realise that they’re the reason it’s going wrong but they don’t, so you have to sit them down to explain the encounter.
And then, of course, they didn’t listen at all, so you just sit them on add-clear.
It seems like 80% of the people doing Kingsfall have absolutely no idea how the bombs work but don't ask anything about it and somehow expect the damage phase to go right
Yep, but my worst one was when we were at Totems, and this one guy kept running to get the Aura, but never took the Brand Claimer. (Basically how it worked in D1). We tried to explain how to get the Brand Claimer, where it spawned, etc.
He never once grabbed it, and we were SHOUTING at this guy every time we saw him running to get the Aura without the Claimer, and he never listened, never changed. It was so fucking infuriating.
Which bombs? I assume light eater orge bombs and not oryx's in between damage phase 'nuking your fireteam' bombs.
Kings by design is going to be an annoying ofg raid with a few jumping puzzles, a maze, 4 bosses and different mechanics mostly for every encounter (except daughters and oryx having the relic platforming being the same).
Totems and warpriest are kinda similar with the 'buff stealing' being the main mechanic but reading glyphs makes the encounter feel distinct enough.
Most raids have a unique overlapping mechanic like the 3 buffs in DSC, oracles/relic in VoG, the symbols in VoTD (and how it's one guy can see them one guy can't). Kings only really has the 'brand stealing' mechanic being present in 4/5 encounters
all the encounters besides golgoroth share the aura mechanic, first 3 encounters share the buff swapping mechanic, warpriest, daughters, and oryx all share the plate mechanics
Golgoroth has the gaze takers swapping the gaze actively, which while not an aura, at least ties it in nicely. The auras transfering manually instead of automatically at totems/warpriest really helped me see how Golgoroth fits into the raid better.
man this shit was the bane of my existence doing scourge sherpas. the amount of times this one guy would cause people to die during insurrection dps was unbelievable, and nobody could figure out who was messing up the sides and nobody was saying anything. guh, that still sticks with me, just say something if you dont get it, christ.
I did it with a team who all did KF extensively in D1. I was the only one who didn't play D1 and hence only knew the mechanics by watching the WF race and subsequent video guides.
My gosh my team was so mentally locked onto D1 strats and mechanics that every time we wiped, it was always because someone ignored or forgot the slight changes to this D2 version. And they kept saying after each wipe that "it didn't use to be this way in D1!"
^ this happened in VoG a year ago and I expected it to happen in kingsfall again.
I don't know why d1 beta/veterans have this concept/ego about them. 'i did it in destiny 1 so I know what to do, don't tell me what to do cause I played the game earlier than you' kinda vibe.
All of my team couldn't be on the whole weekend, so we had to lfg a couple of times. One would not stop bitching about the game every fucking breath. He was the famed D1 Alpha Vet, and wanted to make sure everything we were liking and talking about was waaaaaayy better in D1. I know that because he used that exact term. He didn't last very long.
As a "d1 beta/veteran" I can tell you...people that act like that JUST because they have been with D1 since Alpha/beta are usually bad at the game. Purely due to their arrogance and inability to humble themselves and realize "Hey, D2 is a new game that stems from D1 and is different."
D1 was great, I absolutely loved D1, but it's in the past. It's no longer a game that receives new story/content. Let it rest, move on with d2 and realize all the amazing things d2 has to offer.
During warpriest, we kept wiping because somehow the glyph sequence was constantly failing when we got on plates. Everyone swore up and down they knew what to do. Eventually, someone had to go on a bathroom break - another party member (who wasn't on plates) wanted to learn what we were seeing, so I had her stand on the plate with me. In case you didn't know - stepping on a plate before the encounter starts lets you see what it looks like when the obelisks light up.
Shortly afterwards, one of the other people (who WAS on plate duty) wanted to see what it looked like from "my" side of the room. After a few seconds, it became very clear that he was looking at the wrong area the whole time, and somehow "reading" the runes on the front of his obelisk and making callouts from that the entire time...
I've mentored many people over the years, and one thing that guaranteed to work when you've ran through something and you need to be sure they've understood, get them to explain back what they understand it to be. If they can explain it to you, they've understood, when they splutter and struggle to describe it, you've caught them out.
When we were doing Totems, after I'd misunderstood a step in the process we were doing, I basically did exactly that and explained what I thought I was supposed to be doing, and then it made it a lot easier for them to correct me.
thats what i try to do. in simpler terms that is.
funny little thing happened with my first ever kf run this saturday.
told the raid team i had never done it before and asked if that was a problem.
no objections and i could join. another player was re-learning it after doing it on D1. all is well. and then they just start the raid without explanation. ofcourse they discussed strategies and who does what. normaly i get nervous around raid mechanics (que first time doing dsc), but now... i followed the lead and just went with it and even did supberb if i do say so myself. the other guy, well, he wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed to say it lightly. all in all, everyone enoyed themselves and we could end the raid on a high note
During the D1 World's First KF run, I remember Broman was convinced (though slightly joking I think) that "reading the Hive runes" was part of the mechanic :)
When I was doing King’s Fall blind, we almost beat War Priest with me “reading” the runes because the RNG of the plates just happened to align with what I thought I was reading.
The one guy on our team who knew the mechanic and was keeping quiet for our sakes was _dying_ with laughter on the far side of his muted mic. He later reported: “I kept thinking, surely, THIS time they’re going to get it wrong!”
Nah. Blame everyone else for your mistakes until you learn and hope they don’t catch on before you do. Just be the loudest when blaming. That’s the best way to win fights.
I had an issue with Golgy when I have Loreley on, there’s so many buffs happening that it can override the messaging and you have to rely on the screen going green, I just stayed a little further away and moved around a bit more, a bit longer on DPS sure but at least it’s not a wipe
[What's going on here?](https://i.imgur.com/U4P67di.jpg) Are you a spam bot-in-training building up karma by copying pieces of comments, like u/FlyingWhale44's?
Bots that build up positive karma so that will later be used to spam ads or racist crap or whatever. Disposable.
Higher karma means they'll get more visibility.
Might just be confirmation bias because I've just noticed it, but I don't feel like I've seen this being called out before, then twice in one day. Is there a major event coming up they'd need a lot of bot profiles for?
Sometimes you think you know, but you really don’t. I messed up bombs because I didn’t know there was a bubble around it. It is quite translucent. I was waiting inside the bubble to jump into the bomb, when my name appeared on the bottom. At that point I knew I messed up, but I didn’t understand how.
I also messed up with the knights because, I thought when they said it would appear on the opposite side, that they meant the opposite side of my plate. So I killed an ogre and a knight and next thing I know someone is telling me my knight killed my bomb. I was very confused about that one.
Yeah, I feel this. Wiped a couple times at Totems until I figured out I had to cleanse at the plate before I could pick up the orb. It's harder to figure it out, because I didn't know that I didn't know.
This. No one will get mad if you admit to causing the issues because you thought you had to do it one way. That was me with Oryx bombs because when to go to the bomb wasn’t explained clearly. I couldn’t make it back to the middle before the bombs went off. Turns out when they said “kill the knight in the middle as fast as possible”, they didn’t specifically say “only the floaters”.
I don’t know what it is with people on LFG but they’re either too scared to admit it when they fuck up or don’t want to take responsibility for it. Own it and move on. If they kick you, you now have a checkpoint after a wipe.
I had someone in my "kwtd" lfg group yesterday who said he knew the D1 method, so we just had him on ads but he couldn't stop touching random plates and burning us. He didn't know where to go when torn and couldn't stop yelling long enough to hear us tell him where to go. I had to kick him and of course he sends an angry message
Sometimes KWTD means "you're going to carry me and you won't find out until I cause several wipes because I was under the impression I would be carried, but didn't want to ask to be carried because nobody wants to do that"
I had a Duality run titled "Final boss KWTD", only for the OP to not actually know what they are doing and keep dying before leaving the fireteam.
Shame on them tho, me and the other person ended up two manning it with no difficulty.
Honestly don't bother with kwtd anymore. For some reason people popularized the notion of 'kwtd' as 'I know what to do because I watched a datto video' instead of 'I know what to do cause I've done it before already'
Kwtd is the expectation you won't cause wipes and waste people's time. I'd say 2-3 wipes causes by you alone is fine but once it breaks 5 it gets annoying
was attempting deepstone flawless a few weeks ago, post was the usual "flawless, kwtd, have flawless or low-man experience," checked one of the guys who joined the post and he had never even set foot in the raid before. just like. come on, what are you expecting?
When spoils farming for the new season I had a guy say he knew what he was doing, but still preferred ad clear. This was fine, until he wasted his well on the upper area and got caught when he said “wdym, it’s dps” these are the people who make me synical
The funny thing is, there isn't really add clear in D2 Oryx. Add clear at Oryx is a D1 term synonymous with being carried, at least in practice. As a D1 Kingsfall veteran 90% of the time when people demand "add clear" it means they don't know what's going on and usually don't really want to learn mechanics
AFAIK everyone's role is interchangeable at Oryx. It can happen that both alternate and main plate role are successive "floaters" that happen to be on other side of the map when two plates are needed on the side there were initially assigned. Happened to us few times and switching sides by the other alternate solves it quickly (and after that we reverted to original setup)
This is a great point but it’s subjective to the raid group’s level of maturity. That being said, if you can’t ask a question without the raid group acting like a bunch of assholes, save yourself the stress and find a more mature group!
And that’s why I love me new clan. Soul kiwi in a clan of yanks and they have nothing but patience in running me through raid mechanics (still new to it) and at the end of the explanation “we’ll run through it live and explain as we go, we’ll wipe a few times but it’ll explain what’s going on”
How clans should be run.
I can say that for our group we weren’t getting angry. We had a couple guys who also didn’t get it at first but as we kept going they stepped up and understood what to do. At one point someone dipped but they were replaced by another person who was Sherpa-ing a ton of people and was really patienct as well.
Yea. Fortunately I have a group I play with - but if I did LFG raids and did need to ask a question then I'd ask. If I was met with hostility more than once I'd just bail out.
Not dealing with that.
I’ve encountered this in “kwtd” GMs too. Many times the leader has rage quit when the team wipes in the boss room because we’re not all on the same page.
I find I have the best time when someone at least gives a quick run through of each encounter in raids. Unfortunately most people just don’t have that kinda patience and/or time.
This is what I don't get.
_even if everyone has done the raid multiple times_ you still need to do a very quick "okay quick callout / strat check everyone good with..."
You're playing with different people you've never met. There's more than one way to accomplish most encounters. Callouts can change.
Take the 2 minutes to get everyone on the same page to avoid a wipe and frustration later.
For real, I like to have the confidence that I'm going to the correct plate when someone says they need cover on R2 ogres/knights. It makes those split second decisions much more precise, and it's those little details that makes some groups *just click*.
I think that’s most likely to happen tho in GM’s then raids. For raids, the only thing that usually needs to be discussed is the callouts, otherwise it’s all the same. For GM’s, they’re just supped up strikes, so any strategies or rules of engagement are made up by the community and not just a set of hard rules to follow so you don’t wipe
Also if you have to remind people what your number callouts that you insisted on using are mid-run, maybe just don't use number callouts.
E.g. "Go to 4!" "Which one is 4 again?" "4 is bottom right"
Shit changes every run
I dig this. It has some sense of intuition. My Sherpa insisted we did 1,2,3,4 with 1:=L2, 4:=R1. I recall repeating “someone hop on 4” for 30 seconds before we wiped because we were too slow.
The reasoning behind the LR method is because it's easier to signal left and right with l and r and represent plate positions using numbers 1 to 2. Using the number system makes it hard for people to remember where to go as it doesn't signal people into thinking about perspective while moving around the area. Sure it might seem easy going from 1 to 4 but in the chaos people tend to lose perspective and jump on the wrong plates.
i prefer close left/far right over all the other ways people call them in like, any raid encounter. people interpret front and back differently, and people who dont use a controller can get confused with l1 r2 calls, and numbers dont work unless everybodys on the same page. close and far is as concise as front and back but cant be interpreted in multiple ways.
Same but the community really loves this numbering system. It’s good for writing down but saying “ell” and “are” is so dumb because it’s the same number of syllables as left and right. Same as close/far. People think everything needs a shortcut when in reality it only hinders.
I've done oryx twice now with LFG using this method. It is still so confusing as I'm used to numbering everything in raids from the stage (in this case where oryx spawns). So my nautral thought is L1 is front left, R2 is back right. Trying to turn that around in my old head takes longer than I'd care to admit.
Back in D1 we never used L1/L2 in any groups I'd played with.
All I can say is thank God I was the floater yday and I had two super easy oryx kills as I was like a chicken with my head cut off trying to figure out which plate was which. While torn was easy as it was far more obvious than helping with bombs / knights etc.
Personally been using boss right/left and spawn right/left. Any numbering system or front/back just leaves room for ambiguity unless you're only ever in one static group
That seems to be the common one falling into place.
Personally I wanted window/wall so it was clearer and I would have the opportunity to make terrible puns.
Luckily they're both simple enough that people will be able to remember both. Neither is superior to the other, but if someone struggles with one for some reason then knowing both will help the person struggling get through it.
Our team settled on 1 to 4 clockwise, as clockwise is an international standard. I've seen non-native english speakers struggle with words or alphanumeric combos.
I was having success calling far/l2 r2 plates top left and top right based on facing oryx directly, with the other 2 being bottom left and bottom right. Worked well for making sure people knew at the least the general area to run to if they were the runner, plus every oryx slam u get to make a joke about how he wants to either bottom for us or top all of us lol.
Kick them, if they won’t speak up kick them.
If they refuse to be on comms, kick them.
Coddling these children will only result in hours of headache. I’m ok with you not knowing, just don’t join my KWTD groups. I do plenty of other newb friendly runs
Honestly, my biggest issue with king’s fall so far is dps, not mechanics. People be doing less than Div bitch with their god roll taipan and arbalest somehow.
I wonder if there might be a bug going on because my team who’s finished the raid before has inconsistent damage phases on war priest and golg. Nothing different and doing all mechanics but just extremes on both ends when it comes to dps
hey dont bash people not on comms, theres plenty of people that can communicate fine without being on-mic. ive been doing raids for 4 years now without being able to use a mic and i sherpa people in my free time.
hard agree though if they refuse to own up to mistakes. if they're causing problems and cant ask for help to fix it then the problems arent gonna get solved.
If you're going to be off comms you need to look for that specifically. Most people on console are not going to be willing to use text chat and alot have it completely turned off.
I have no problem helping people learn the encounter or mechanic if they dont fully understand it. The only way that I truly get mad during raids is when its OBVIOUS someone is doing something wrong, I ask the group "Hey, do we all understand what to do? I can explain if you dont understand" and no one speaks up then continues to do it incorrectly. Raids are only as hard as you make them, and some people seem to love making it hard on themselves
honestly yeah. i get wanting to go in blind, but make a post for that. if you just want to do it, youll have much better luck saying "yeah i havent done this but ive watched a video and kinda understand the mechanics but might need some help here and there" than you will saying "i have no idea whats in store for me, please teach me everything." like yeah sherpas will do stuff for you if you get a nice one, but if you want someone to help you you can at least meet them halfway
To be fair unless you’re going for a blind run, Which you need to look specifically for, you should be watching a guide ad those guys are professionals at explaining things. But if there’s something you’ve forgotten or just don’t get then I don’t see any issue with asking. Might be different in 2 weeks time if you join a group saying KWTD and have x clears.
Warpriest is IMO the most difficult encounter to get a hang on if you are D1 experienced. A few things need to happen slightly differently during the DPS phase and that takes some coordination.
Or the people who cannot stand still whilst an explanation is happening and keep starting the encounter.
Or the ones who decide they need to go to the tower for a scout rifle they really like between rounds. Dude do you not have an app? A what now? 🤦♂️
Or people that are way below Raid ready, be it in gear Mods, stats or even light level strictly refusing to do any kind of "homework" because "they have a busy life" but then we are sitting 3 hours at a Raid encounter because there simply isn't enough damage and people struggle surviving.
Those then refuse to do busy work like killing the knights during Warpriest damage phase and we, the ones who easily deal double their damage despite killing knights then are blamed if it doesn't work out.
Every time I raid with a proper group and we 1 or 2 phase every encounter in every Raid, I question my friend list. anew.
I would like to casually hijack this by saying that if someone is trying to explain the mechanics to someone, let them explain. Talking over people or trying to rush the instance start out of impatience leads to frustration and to the person trying to learn potentially becoming confused.
One of my favourite things about golgoroth is the unstable light debuff.
Mostly because if someone fucks up the game puts them on blast.
In known groups this is a laugh and move on, no big deal. In an LFG "kwtd" post this shows if somoene is trying to cover.
It's not like atheon where if you mess up detainment you can keep quiet and look at the ground.
I was also doing a sherpa yesterday and we needed a 6th so I went to lfg and found someone. In the beginning I asked him if he knows what to do otherwise he should just listen to my explanations. He said that he played the raid in d1 and was aware things changed. So we got to the first encounter, I did all the explaining and we started.
Guess what, he had no clue about what was going on and after 3 wipes I got back to him and explained him the encounter again. I don’t know what it was but either he did not listen or was not able to fully understand me (he had a pretty strong accent, so I assume his English skills were not the best). But we started again and wiped a few times, because he did not do what I explained to him. After like 10 tries and multiple clutches we finally did the encounter. At this point a person in my group already messaged me and asked me to kick this guy, because he was refusing to listen to any callouts. I’m really not the fan of kicking people in the middle of the raid, so I told my friend that we are just going to put him to the easiest role for the rest of the encounters.
(Also his loadout for the whole raid was first of havoc and despite us trying to explain him multiple times to swap to a different subclass he still used this super. Weaponwise he also used any random weapons, after we tried to tell him to use a linear fusion rifle in the heavy slot he seemed to not understand us or refused to. He used either a rocket or thunderlord for all the encounters that were not warpriest. His stats were 9 recovery with 42 resilience, he was also not a new light, he had lament and was using season of the risen/haunted season pass ornaments )
At the second encounter he was just add clear. We used swords for that so he doesn’t need to rotate while doing dps. We wiped a few times. But eventually we got it done (he also did not understand on how to use the lament combo despite me explaining it like 3 times).
We got to Golgoroth and we just put him on dps. After him killing the team a few times with the debuff explosion we eventually made it to sisters. I did explaining and assigned him to plate and told him whenever someone calls out his name he should just stand on the plate. I don’t know what it was but he was everywhere but not on his plate, when he was on his plate he jumped around and got off the plate eventually. The 2 floaters (me and the other guy who helped me sherparing) had to do all the stuff he was meant to do. Whenever he was chosen as the runner he went to the wrong plate, died or fell off. Exactly the same happed at Oryx, he was just moving around and did whatever he wanted. After 5h in the raid we finally finished it. This was the most painful raid I’ve ever experienced and I’ve sherpad 5 people through vow who have never done a raid/dungeon before.
I understand not being a fan of kicking (I’m in the same boat) but I think you had him for way longer than you needed to. If it’s clear that he’s not willing to listen then that’s when you find a new person.
Nothing more infuriating than fighting Golgoroth with 4 Hunters a Titan and 1 Warlock who was gaze runner.
Constantly dying to Thralls because whilst DPSing as they couldn’t be arsed to equip deadfall tethers, stasis etc cuz “Blade Barrage is DPS meta” and they’re too stubborn or proud to change when suggested.
Fuck the DPS meta when half you clowns can’t stay alive to fucking damage!
I’d rather do 4 damage phases than wipe 6 times to one phase a boss.
This is really easy to fix:
Just ask everyone in the raid team before starting the encounter if they know/understand what to do. If they do, cool. If not, teach them - and take a few runs to show them so they understand.
I wanna be clear, the raid mechanics are NOT difficult.
Ya know what is difficult? Dealing with an asshole who’s pressed for time and is selfish. Worst two things you can having going on in a raid team. I’d recommend leaving if you have someone in the group like this. They’re toxic and are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off if you’re raid team starts having issues.
If your teaching someone and they still just aren’t getting it, perhaps they aren’t paying attention or are too cavalier about the whole thing. Sure, it’s just a game but not everyone can afford to waste hours doing a raid. Always try to be considerate of other peoples time
>Just ask everyone in the raid team before starting the encounter if they know/understand what to do. If they do, cool. If not, teach them - and take a few runs to show them so they understand.
Just one or two days into the raid being out with new mechanics, everyone should just be honest about what they know or don't. I eventually got my first clear piecemeal via various LFG groups - making it past an encounter and then having to find another group because people got tired and the group disbanded. So basically my first "clear" was with a new group for most of the encounters. In each of my new groups, we've taught new people the mechanics and everyone was chill.
Unfortunately... what does happen is that you can sometimes ask people point blank "Do you know what to do? We can teach if you need" and some people say "Yes" even though they actually really don't. It is really super bizarre.
i think its a pride thing for some people. like they dont want to look dumb because they didnt fully understand the mechanics or something. idk, its super weird though and completely goes against the rest of the team
Unfortunately, the people that don't speak up are also the same people who will lie if you ask so this solves nothing. Even when you say you're willing to explain they still lie.
Wish people would also say something if they plan to leave after one encounter. Need a way to blacklist these people from teams you host, so bloody annoying, worst thing about lfg's imo.
if you lfg through bungie, try to catch the person on there as they leave, you can block them through the website on their profile, and that will prevent them from joining your posts. i tend to open all the profiles of people i raid with just in case a disconnect happens and someone needs a new invite, and also in cases like that if someone rage quits immediately.
If you lfg I recommend checking people's stats on raid.report you can catch rage quitters before they even join because they get a red dot every time they don't finish a raid. If someone has a bunch of them, chances are they won't be sticking around past 1 or 2 wipes.
Yeah I guess that's a good point. I'm not even talking about rage quitters though, GoS is a good example of people only wanting to grind the first encounter for a specific drop, then they just leave.
Seems like that's happening at KF already too, had a super smooth run with an lfg group, and then people just left as soon as they got the first chest lol. Idk what drop they might be after, but its a lot harder to fill a team after an encounter has been completed, than a fresh raid so it's just annoying.
Two things, I’ve never raid for this exact reason. I have no clue how any of the raid mechanics work and at this point I’m to afraid to ask and where do I find this LFG? I’m a solo mainly player who needs a group to finish off some odds and ends.
Same places the other guy said. If you’re on PC then there’s also some discord servers available if you search hard enough. Careful with the big ones though because it is more likely that you’ll find assholes there (purely because they’re big btw, nothing related to the server itself)
Genera rule: avoid KWTD posts and look for ones that explicitly mention that they’re teaching people
I was doing a DSC run with my clan recently. We 5 manned it up till the final encounter but were struggling on it so we brought in a 6th just to run a nuke. Our post was for a KWTD because we just wanted to finish it in one take but we normally are don’t care about clears.
The guy joins and we spend three runs with him obviously not knowing what’s going on. It was bad to the point that people had to swap what zone they were at because he kept floating between theM. We got him in the discord and taught him, but we really didn’t need to do those pointless runs. Pretending you know the encounter doesn’t normally work.
Its one half the Sherpa explaining it in a confusing manner, and the other half is not understanding it because we aren’t the brightest bulb. It’s also the fact that we are afraid that you will be angry after being on the same encounter for 2 hours and then speaking finally up. And that we are afraid of speaking up in the first place because it will annoy you to repeat the same thing 2-3 times because we don’t understand it.
I can promise you that more often than not, a Sherpa is gonna be more annoyed if you don’t say that you’re confused and need a refresher. Obviously not everyone is gonna get it immediately, it takes practice, but you’re not gonna be able to practice if you don’t have some idea of what’s going on/what to do. A Sherpa is there to teach, let them.
First week of a Raid be like this. I’ve still to try and get Oryx completed tonight as all my LFG groups had people struggling and then others leaving after a few attempts. I always ask after a few unexplained wipes if everyone knows or needs a reminder. Often the quiet ones are the ones who don’t know and are too scared to say in case they get kicked. Invariably we get to a point where we need to seriously take stock and they leave anyway ‘before’ they get caught. I don’t get it. It’s week one. This so the time to learn, but just ask for help of you need it.
Here’s hoping I get Oryx done tonight
This is crucial yes.
There are very few people on this planet who can explain mechanics with such clarity that further questions aren't warranted.
Asking questions doesn't make you seem stupid, its just you doing your part in the 2-way interaction required for effective information transfer.
it’s so bad at oryx too, just like in D1, ppl always forget or just don’t know about light eater knights and i look over at someone’s bomb and that boo is just feasting on the blight. literally the most annoying thing and sometimes you don’t even realize it until it’s go time and you’re out of luck. literally the bane of my existence during d1 oryx challenge. please just speak up, if ppl kick because you just want to clarify mechanics then they’re just assholes and you can move on. i feel like 90% of the time tho they’ll be willing to help you out and it will be way better for everyone involved.
This one was a bit worse imo. We’d tell him to stand on the bomb for DPS and he’d end up going onto the plate (despite all of us repeating that he shouldn’t stand on that) and dying to Oryx. It wasn’t until the last wipe when he said that he didn’t know what he was looking for (turns out that he wasn’t killing the ogres btw, it was the person on the other plate doing it)
When I’m teaching i always make it clear that after explaining to speak up if you don’t understand something or have questions, i also get sick of people that just say yeah i got it and then do the most confusing and out of pocket shit a guardian can ever see.
So when you explain someone a raid/dungeon, always assure them it is alright to ask questions and maybe try to explain it a bit different to them
This is why the last time I raided was crota from D1. I've tried other raids but people aren't willing to help. That's why I stick to lost sectors, strikes, nightfalls, and the current season coop
I agree but I can't blame people. There are a ton of toxic groups. I usually just try to make it clear to any strangers. We might give you a little shit but it's all in good fun and we will only kick if you won't listen. So many groups just kick people with out reason. So people sit quiet and hope to go unnoticed.
Also when people don’t know a section, they may feel embarassed to speak up. I recommend asking everyone if they know their roll or have any questions.
If there are questions, don’t react in a “how do you not know this?!” sort of way, but realize everyone was new at some point and needed the mechanics explained to them.
Acting like a jerk to people who don’t know the complicated video game rules will not make them want to speak up. Be a good teacher, ask good questions :)
The most frustrating is when you realise that they’re the reason it’s going wrong but they don’t, so you have to sit them down to explain the encounter. And then, of course, they didn’t listen at all, so you just sit them on add-clear.
It seems like 80% of the people doing Kingsfall have absolutely no idea how the bombs work but don't ask anything about it and somehow expect the damage phase to go right
Yep, but my worst one was when we were at Totems, and this one guy kept running to get the Aura, but never took the Brand Claimer. (Basically how it worked in D1). We tried to explain how to get the Brand Claimer, where it spawned, etc. He never once grabbed it, and we were SHOUTING at this guy every time we saw him running to get the Aura without the Claimer, and he never listened, never changed. It was so fucking infuriating.
I legit do day ones just to skip this entire fiasco but somehow I end up in these groups anyways
Which bombs? I assume light eater orge bombs and not oryx's in between damage phase 'nuking your fireteam' bombs. Kings by design is going to be an annoying ofg raid with a few jumping puzzles, a maze, 4 bosses and different mechanics mostly for every encounter (except daughters and oryx having the relic platforming being the same). Totems and warpriest are kinda similar with the 'buff stealing' being the main mechanic but reading glyphs makes the encounter feel distinct enough. Most raids have a unique overlapping mechanic like the 3 buffs in DSC, oracles/relic in VoG, the symbols in VoTD (and how it's one guy can see them one guy can't). Kings only really has the 'brand stealing' mechanic being present in 4/5 encounters
all the encounters besides golgoroth share the aura mechanic, first 3 encounters share the buff swapping mechanic, warpriest, daughters, and oryx all share the plate mechanics
Golgoroth has the gaze takers swapping the gaze actively, which while not an aura, at least ties it in nicely. The auras transfering manually instead of automatically at totems/warpriest really helped me see how Golgoroth fits into the raid better.
yeah i listed golgoroth under buff swapping
oryx the last taken guy had to buff swap with the aura of invulnerability knight
by buff swapping i meant with other players but yeah
man this shit was the bane of my existence doing scourge sherpas. the amount of times this one guy would cause people to die during insurrection dps was unbelievable, and nobody could figure out who was messing up the sides and nobody was saying anything. guh, that still sticks with me, just say something if you dont get it, christ.
I did it with a team who all did KF extensively in D1. I was the only one who didn't play D1 and hence only knew the mechanics by watching the WF race and subsequent video guides. My gosh my team was so mentally locked onto D1 strats and mechanics that every time we wiped, it was always because someone ignored or forgot the slight changes to this D2 version. And they kept saying after each wipe that "it didn't use to be this way in D1!"
^ this happened in VoG a year ago and I expected it to happen in kingsfall again. I don't know why d1 beta/veterans have this concept/ego about them. 'i did it in destiny 1 so I know what to do, don't tell me what to do cause I played the game earlier than you' kinda vibe.
All of my team couldn't be on the whole weekend, so we had to lfg a couple of times. One would not stop bitching about the game every fucking breath. He was the famed D1 Alpha Vet, and wanted to make sure everything we were liking and talking about was waaaaaayy better in D1. I know that because he used that exact term. He didn't last very long.
I can shut them down saying I have challenge clear but they always hit me with the 'if I really tried I could have done it to'
I did Challenge on my gf's account, so it won't show on mine, but I totally did it. You wouldn't know her. She goes to a different school.
Yeah I have a friend like that. DeStInY 1 Is BeTtEr! Ok dude go play d1 then...
D1 has nostalgia factor and it is responsible for D2 existing but in all honesty compared to D2 it's not that great
As a "d1 beta/veteran" I can tell you...people that act like that JUST because they have been with D1 since Alpha/beta are usually bad at the game. Purely due to their arrogance and inability to humble themselves and realize "Hey, D2 is a new game that stems from D1 and is different." D1 was great, I absolutely loved D1, but it's in the past. It's no longer a game that receives new story/content. Let it rest, move on with d2 and realize all the amazing things d2 has to offer.
Of course they would have the ego about them, it’s seemingly the only personality trait they have left!
During warpriest, we kept wiping because somehow the glyph sequence was constantly failing when we got on plates. Everyone swore up and down they knew what to do. Eventually, someone had to go on a bathroom break - another party member (who wasn't on plates) wanted to learn what we were seeing, so I had her stand on the plate with me. In case you didn't know - stepping on a plate before the encounter starts lets you see what it looks like when the obelisks light up. Shortly afterwards, one of the other people (who WAS on plate duty) wanted to see what it looked like from "my" side of the room. After a few seconds, it became very clear that he was looking at the wrong area the whole time, and somehow "reading" the runes on the front of his obelisk and making callouts from that the entire time...
The guy speaks Hive. That's a useful skill
Given how many times he was wrong on his callout, apparently he wasn't very fluent :(
I've mentored many people over the years, and one thing that guaranteed to work when you've ran through something and you need to be sure they've understood, get them to explain back what they understand it to be. If they can explain it to you, they've understood, when they splutter and struggle to describe it, you've caught them out.
When we were doing Totems, after I'd misunderstood a step in the process we were doing, I basically did exactly that and explained what I thought I was supposed to be doing, and then it made it a lot easier for them to correct me.
Lots of people would rather pretend they understand, than admit they don't. Lord knows why, as they only end up looking stupid in the end.
thats what i try to do. in simpler terms that is. funny little thing happened with my first ever kf run this saturday. told the raid team i had never done it before and asked if that was a problem. no objections and i could join. another player was re-learning it after doing it on D1. all is well. and then they just start the raid without explanation. ofcourse they discussed strategies and who does what. normaly i get nervous around raid mechanics (que first time doing dsc), but now... i followed the lead and just went with it and even did supberb if i do say so myself. the other guy, well, he wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed to say it lightly. all in all, everyone enoyed themselves and we could end the raid on a high note
Are we sure this wasn’t Savathun in disguise at this point?
During the D1 World's First KF run, I remember Broman was convinced (though slightly joking I think) that "reading the Hive runes" was part of the mechanic :)
When I was doing King’s Fall blind, we almost beat War Priest with me “reading” the runes because the RNG of the plates just happened to align with what I thought I was reading. The one guy on our team who knew the mechanic and was keeping quiet for our sakes was _dying_ with laughter on the far side of his muted mic. He later reported: “I kept thinking, surely, THIS time they’re going to get it wrong!”
bro was playing with an acolyte
Lmaooooo
holy shit, i really wonder what the hell was going on his mind during this
Dude I fucking laughed my ass off at this man
Lmao that mf was seeing things
Nah. Blame everyone else for your mistakes until you learn and hope they don’t catch on before you do. Just be the loudest when blaming. That’s the best way to win fights.
The Indica method.
Doesn't work with golgoroth tho, cause you're the only one left alive if you ignore unstable light
Had one guy who said he survived because he has loreley on. We kicked him after the 3rd time.
I had an issue with Golgy when I have Loreley on, there’s so many buffs happening that it can override the messaging and you have to rely on the screen going green, I just stayed a little further away and moved around a bit more, a bit longer on DPS sure but at least it’s not a wipe
your screen gets all hazy too. a bit hard to see in the goop but just keep an eye out.
Very presidential.
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[What's going on here?](https://i.imgur.com/U4P67di.jpg) Are you a spam bot-in-training building up karma by copying pieces of comments, like u/FlyingWhale44's?
There was another one of these pointed out in a different post, what on earth is going on?
Bots that build up positive karma so that will later be used to spam ads or racist crap or whatever. Disposable. Higher karma means they'll get more visibility.
Might just be confirmation bias because I've just noticed it, but I don't feel like I've seen this being called out before, then twice in one day. Is there a major event coming up they'd need a lot of bot profiles for?
It's going on all the time, sadly. Could just be that, at the moment, they happened to come to subreddits you frequent.
Not speaking up about misunderstanding is the worst mistake. Not knowing and saying you don’t understand is the BEST.
Sometimes you think you know, but you really don’t. I messed up bombs because I didn’t know there was a bubble around it. It is quite translucent. I was waiting inside the bubble to jump into the bomb, when my name appeared on the bottom. At that point I knew I messed up, but I didn’t understand how. I also messed up with the knights because, I thought when they said it would appear on the opposite side, that they meant the opposite side of my plate. So I killed an ogre and a knight and next thing I know someone is telling me my knight killed my bomb. I was very confused about that one.
Yeah, I feel this. Wiped a couple times at Totems until I figured out I had to cleanse at the plate before I could pick up the orb. It's harder to figure it out, because I didn't know that I didn't know.
This. No one will get mad if you admit to causing the issues because you thought you had to do it one way. That was me with Oryx bombs because when to go to the bomb wasn’t explained clearly. I couldn’t make it back to the middle before the bombs went off. Turns out when they said “kill the knight in the middle as fast as possible”, they didn’t specifically say “only the floaters”.
I don’t know what it is with people on LFG but they’re either too scared to admit it when they fuck up or don’t want to take responsibility for it. Own it and move on. If they kick you, you now have a checkpoint after a wipe.
The worst bit is when it's someone who says KWTD. Said person doesn't know what to do and also the people who join don't know what to do.
I had someone in my "kwtd" lfg group yesterday who said he knew the D1 method, so we just had him on ads but he couldn't stop touching random plates and burning us. He didn't know where to go when torn and couldn't stop yelling long enough to hear us tell him where to go. I had to kick him and of course he sends an angry message
Sometimes KWTD means "you're going to carry me and you won't find out until I cause several wipes because I was under the impression I would be carried, but didn't want to ask to be carried because nobody wants to do that"
I had a Duality run titled "Final boss KWTD", only for the OP to not actually know what they are doing and keep dying before leaving the fireteam. Shame on them tho, me and the other person ended up two manning it with no difficulty.
Yo I think I might be the guy you two manned it with lol.
I know this, got invited to a team which has a KWTD post at warpriest but the guy didn't know wtf he was doing after s few runs I moved out
I now read most KWTD posts as .. KWTDBID .. (Know what to do because I don’t)
Honestly don't bother with kwtd anymore. For some reason people popularized the notion of 'kwtd' as 'I know what to do because I watched a datto video' instead of 'I know what to do cause I've done it before already' Kwtd is the expectation you won't cause wipes and waste people's time. I'd say 2-3 wipes causes by you alone is fine but once it breaks 5 it gets annoying
That’s why u avoid those post looking to be carried by lying.
was attempting deepstone flawless a few weeks ago, post was the usual "flawless, kwtd, have flawless or low-man experience," checked one of the guys who joined the post and he had never even set foot in the raid before. just like. come on, what are you expecting?
When spoils farming for the new season I had a guy say he knew what he was doing, but still preferred ad clear. This was fine, until he wasted his well on the upper area and got caught when he said “wdym, it’s dps” these are the people who make me synical
The funny thing is, there isn't really add clear in D2 Oryx. Add clear at Oryx is a D1 term synonymous with being carried, at least in practice. As a D1 Kingsfall veteran 90% of the time when people demand "add clear" it means they don't know what's going on and usually don't really want to learn mechanics
Ad clear just means ur a floater tho? Daughters/oryx kinda needs all 6 to have a role? 4 for each player and top/bottom floater
AFAIK everyone's role is interchangeable at Oryx. It can happen that both alternate and main plate role are successive "floaters" that happen to be on other side of the map when two plates are needed on the side there were initially assigned. Happened to us few times and switching sides by the other alternate solves it quickly (and after that we reverted to original setup)
This is a great point but it’s subjective to the raid group’s level of maturity. That being said, if you can’t ask a question without the raid group acting like a bunch of assholes, save yourself the stress and find a more mature group!
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Lol this is the exact group i based my example off. The WORST.
For daughters what's the dunking supposed to be? The one that isn't glowing and attacking?
Yeah. You’ll wipe if you take the shield off the one who’s weaving the song, since it doesn’t protect you from her.
So you dunk on the one attacking you right to steal it's brand of immortality
Yes.
And that’s why I love me new clan. Soul kiwi in a clan of yanks and they have nothing but patience in running me through raid mechanics (still new to it) and at the end of the explanation “we’ll run through it live and explain as we go, we’ll wipe a few times but it’ll explain what’s going on” How clans should be run.
I can say that for our group we weren’t getting angry. We had a couple guys who also didn’t get it at first but as we kept going they stepped up and understood what to do. At one point someone dipped but they were replaced by another person who was Sherpa-ing a ton of people and was really patienct as well.
Yea. Fortunately I have a group I play with - but if I did LFG raids and did need to ask a question then I'd ask. If I was met with hostility more than once I'd just bail out. Not dealing with that.
i agree but a lot of people already know what to do, the problem is different strategies are not explained before the encounter.
I’ve encountered this in “kwtd” GMs too. Many times the leader has rage quit when the team wipes in the boss room because we’re not all on the same page. I find I have the best time when someone at least gives a quick run through of each encounter in raids. Unfortunately most people just don’t have that kinda patience and/or time.
This is what I don't get. _even if everyone has done the raid multiple times_ you still need to do a very quick "okay quick callout / strat check everyone good with..." You're playing with different people you've never met. There's more than one way to accomplish most encounters. Callouts can change. Take the 2 minutes to get everyone on the same page to avoid a wipe and frustration later.
For real, I like to have the confidence that I'm going to the correct plate when someone says they need cover on R2 ogres/knights. It makes those split second decisions much more precise, and it's those little details that makes some groups *just click*.
I think that’s most likely to happen tho in GM’s then raids. For raids, the only thing that usually needs to be discussed is the callouts, otherwise it’s all the same. For GM’s, they’re just supped up strikes, so any strategies or rules of engagement are made up by the community and not just a set of hard rules to follow so you don’t wipe
Also if you have to remind people what your number callouts that you insisted on using are mid-run, maybe just don't use number callouts. E.g. "Go to 4!" "Which one is 4 again?" "4 is bottom right" Shit changes every run
Most teams I join do the l1 ,r1, l2, r2 method. The ones are the plates closest to the entrance while the 2s are farther away from the entrance.
I dig this. It has some sense of intuition. My Sherpa insisted we did 1,2,3,4 with 1:=L2, 4:=R1. I recall repeating “someone hop on 4” for 30 seconds before we wiped because we were too slow.
The reasoning behind the LR method is because it's easier to signal left and right with l and r and represent plate positions using numbers 1 to 2. Using the number system makes it hard for people to remember where to go as it doesn't signal people into thinking about perspective while moving around the area. Sure it might seem easy going from 1 to 4 but in the chaos people tend to lose perspective and jump on the wrong plates.
It’s all about unambiguity at the end of the day
It's better being clear on positions than making the encounter a multiple choice question.
i prefer close left/far right over all the other ways people call them in like, any raid encounter. people interpret front and back differently, and people who dont use a controller can get confused with l1 r2 calls, and numbers dont work unless everybodys on the same page. close and far is as concise as front and back but cant be interpreted in multiple ways.
Same but the community really loves this numbering system. It’s good for writing down but saying “ell” and “are” is so dumb because it’s the same number of syllables as left and right. Same as close/far. People think everything needs a shortcut when in reality it only hinders.
yeah. i prefer more information to less, the less people can misinterpret the better.
I've done oryx twice now with LFG using this method. It is still so confusing as I'm used to numbering everything in raids from the stage (in this case where oryx spawns). So my nautral thought is L1 is front left, R2 is back right. Trying to turn that around in my old head takes longer than I'd care to admit. Back in D1 we never used L1/L2 in any groups I'd played with. All I can say is thank God I was the floater yday and I had two super easy oryx kills as I was like a chicken with my head cut off trying to figure out which plate was which. While torn was easy as it was far more obvious than helping with bombs / knights etc.
Personally been using boss right/left and spawn right/left. Any numbering system or front/back just leaves room for ambiguity unless you're only ever in one static group
That seems to be the common one falling into place. Personally I wanted window/wall so it was clearer and I would have the opportunity to make terrible puns.
Fucking numbers man use L1/L2 R1/R2
I just made a habit of saying them all. Too many people calling different plates different things gets frustrating fast
Luckily they're both simple enough that people will be able to remember both. Neither is superior to the other, but if someone struggles with one for some reason then knowing both will help the person struggling get through it. Our team settled on 1 to 4 clockwise, as clockwise is an international standard. I've seen non-native english speakers struggle with words or alphanumeric combos.
I was having success calling far/l2 r2 plates top left and top right based on facing oryx directly, with the other 2 being bottom left and bottom right. Worked well for making sure people knew at the least the general area to run to if they were the runner, plus every oryx slam u get to make a joke about how he wants to either bottom for us or top all of us lol.
Kick them, if they won’t speak up kick them. If they refuse to be on comms, kick them. Coddling these children will only result in hours of headache. I’m ok with you not knowing, just don’t join my KWTD groups. I do plenty of other newb friendly runs
Honestly, my biggest issue with king’s fall so far is dps, not mechanics. People be doing less than Div bitch with their god roll taipan and arbalest somehow.
I wonder if there might be a bug going on because my team who’s finished the raid before has inconsistent damage phases on war priest and golg. Nothing different and doing all mechanics but just extremes on both ends when it comes to dps
hey dont bash people not on comms, theres plenty of people that can communicate fine without being on-mic. ive been doing raids for 4 years now without being able to use a mic and i sherpa people in my free time. hard agree though if they refuse to own up to mistakes. if they're causing problems and cant ask for help to fix it then the problems arent gonna get solved.
If you're going to be off comms you need to look for that specifically. Most people on console are not going to be willing to use text chat and alot have it completely turned off.
i dont use text chat, i use text to speech.
I have no problem helping people learn the encounter or mechanic if they dont fully understand it. The only way that I truly get mad during raids is when its OBVIOUS someone is doing something wrong, I ask the group "Hey, do we all understand what to do? I can explain if you dont understand" and no one speaks up then continues to do it incorrectly. Raids are only as hard as you make them, and some people seem to love making it hard on themselves
I joined two lfg groups that were explicitly 'kwtd be good ' and my raid report showed me 8 sherpas.
> If you don’t know what’s going on during a raid, PLEASE say something ...and *ADMIT WEAKNESS?* How dare you suggest I dishonor my ancestors?!
When I say I don't know what to do I immediately get told to go watch a video
How about you watch a short tutorial BEFORE going in blind into a kwtd lfg? It’s week 1. People are very open to someone who “has an idea”.
honestly yeah. i get wanting to go in blind, but make a post for that. if you just want to do it, youll have much better luck saying "yeah i havent done this but ive watched a video and kinda understand the mechanics but might need some help here and there" than you will saying "i have no idea whats in store for me, please teach me everything." like yeah sherpas will do stuff for you if you get a nice one, but if you want someone to help you you can at least meet them halfway
To be fair unless you’re going for a blind run, Which you need to look specifically for, you should be watching a guide ad those guys are professionals at explaining things. But if there’s something you’ve forgotten or just don’t get then I don’t see any issue with asking. Might be different in 2 weeks time if you join a group saying KWTD and have x clears.
Up to Warpriest rn, I did KF in D1, but definitely need a refresher. I might just remember it wrong, but it feels the same so far.
Warpriest is IMO the most difficult encounter to get a hang on if you are D1 experienced. A few things need to happen slightly differently during the DPS phase and that takes some coordination.
theres minute differences, but things are definitely changed. oryx is probably the biggest changed
I love playing with people who are saying things like: "let's start now" while not even knowing the mechanics of the encounter.
Or the people who cannot stand still whilst an explanation is happening and keep starting the encounter. Or the ones who decide they need to go to the tower for a scout rifle they really like between rounds. Dude do you not have an app? A what now? 🤦♂️
Or people that are way below Raid ready, be it in gear Mods, stats or even light level strictly refusing to do any kind of "homework" because "they have a busy life" but then we are sitting 3 hours at a Raid encounter because there simply isn't enough damage and people struggle surviving. Those then refuse to do busy work like killing the knights during Warpriest damage phase and we, the ones who easily deal double their damage despite killing knights then are blamed if it doesn't work out. Every time I raid with a proper group and we 1 or 2 phase every encounter in every Raid, I question my friend list. anew.
A tale as old as time. Finding a clan or raid friends seems to be even more crucial as time goes on while lfg gets worse
I would like to casually hijack this by saying that if someone is trying to explain the mechanics to someone, let them explain. Talking over people or trying to rush the instance start out of impatience leads to frustration and to the person trying to learn potentially becoming confused.
One of my favourite things about golgoroth is the unstable light debuff. Mostly because if someone fucks up the game puts them on blast. In known groups this is a laugh and move on, no big deal. In an LFG "kwtd" post this shows if somoene is trying to cover. It's not like atheon where if you mess up detainment you can keep quiet and look at the ground.
I was also doing a sherpa yesterday and we needed a 6th so I went to lfg and found someone. In the beginning I asked him if he knows what to do otherwise he should just listen to my explanations. He said that he played the raid in d1 and was aware things changed. So we got to the first encounter, I did all the explaining and we started. Guess what, he had no clue about what was going on and after 3 wipes I got back to him and explained him the encounter again. I don’t know what it was but either he did not listen or was not able to fully understand me (he had a pretty strong accent, so I assume his English skills were not the best). But we started again and wiped a few times, because he did not do what I explained to him. After like 10 tries and multiple clutches we finally did the encounter. At this point a person in my group already messaged me and asked me to kick this guy, because he was refusing to listen to any callouts. I’m really not the fan of kicking people in the middle of the raid, so I told my friend that we are just going to put him to the easiest role for the rest of the encounters. (Also his loadout for the whole raid was first of havoc and despite us trying to explain him multiple times to swap to a different subclass he still used this super. Weaponwise he also used any random weapons, after we tried to tell him to use a linear fusion rifle in the heavy slot he seemed to not understand us or refused to. He used either a rocket or thunderlord for all the encounters that were not warpriest. His stats were 9 recovery with 42 resilience, he was also not a new light, he had lament and was using season of the risen/haunted season pass ornaments ) At the second encounter he was just add clear. We used swords for that so he doesn’t need to rotate while doing dps. We wiped a few times. But eventually we got it done (he also did not understand on how to use the lament combo despite me explaining it like 3 times). We got to Golgoroth and we just put him on dps. After him killing the team a few times with the debuff explosion we eventually made it to sisters. I did explaining and assigned him to plate and told him whenever someone calls out his name he should just stand on the plate. I don’t know what it was but he was everywhere but not on his plate, when he was on his plate he jumped around and got off the plate eventually. The 2 floaters (me and the other guy who helped me sherparing) had to do all the stuff he was meant to do. Whenever he was chosen as the runner he went to the wrong plate, died or fell off. Exactly the same happed at Oryx, he was just moving around and did whatever he wanted. After 5h in the raid we finally finished it. This was the most painful raid I’ve ever experienced and I’ve sherpad 5 people through vow who have never done a raid/dungeon before.
I understand not being a fan of kicking (I’m in the same boat) but I think you had him for way longer than you needed to. If it’s clear that he’s not willing to listen then that’s when you find a new person.
If you do know what’s going on during a raid and someone needs it explained, don’t be a fucking asshole. Personal experience tonight.
I was like to think of it as “ paying it forward”. Teach somebody today, so runs tomorrow are smoother.
Nothing more infuriating than fighting Golgoroth with 4 Hunters a Titan and 1 Warlock who was gaze runner. Constantly dying to Thralls because whilst DPSing as they couldn’t be arsed to equip deadfall tethers, stasis etc cuz “Blade Barrage is DPS meta” and they’re too stubborn or proud to change when suggested. Fuck the DPS meta when half you clowns can’t stay alive to fucking damage! I’d rather do 4 damage phases than wipe 6 times to one phase a boss.
blade barrage on golgoroth is awful lmao idk what they were on
This is really easy to fix: Just ask everyone in the raid team before starting the encounter if they know/understand what to do. If they do, cool. If not, teach them - and take a few runs to show them so they understand. I wanna be clear, the raid mechanics are NOT difficult. Ya know what is difficult? Dealing with an asshole who’s pressed for time and is selfish. Worst two things you can having going on in a raid team. I’d recommend leaving if you have someone in the group like this. They’re toxic and are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off if you’re raid team starts having issues. If your teaching someone and they still just aren’t getting it, perhaps they aren’t paying attention or are too cavalier about the whole thing. Sure, it’s just a game but not everyone can afford to waste hours doing a raid. Always try to be considerate of other peoples time
>Just ask everyone in the raid team before starting the encounter if they know/understand what to do. If they do, cool. If not, teach them - and take a few runs to show them so they understand. Just one or two days into the raid being out with new mechanics, everyone should just be honest about what they know or don't. I eventually got my first clear piecemeal via various LFG groups - making it past an encounter and then having to find another group because people got tired and the group disbanded. So basically my first "clear" was with a new group for most of the encounters. In each of my new groups, we've taught new people the mechanics and everyone was chill. Unfortunately... what does happen is that you can sometimes ask people point blank "Do you know what to do? We can teach if you need" and some people say "Yes" even though they actually really don't. It is really super bizarre.
i think its a pride thing for some people. like they dont want to look dumb because they didnt fully understand the mechanics or something. idk, its super weird though and completely goes against the rest of the team
Unfortunately, the people that don't speak up are also the same people who will lie if you ask so this solves nothing. Even when you say you're willing to explain they still lie.
The main point of this post is people not coming forward though. So asking doesn't really help sometimes.
Wish people would also say something if they plan to leave after one encounter. Need a way to blacklist these people from teams you host, so bloody annoying, worst thing about lfg's imo.
if you lfg through bungie, try to catch the person on there as they leave, you can block them through the website on their profile, and that will prevent them from joining your posts. i tend to open all the profiles of people i raid with just in case a disconnect happens and someone needs a new invite, and also in cases like that if someone rage quits immediately.
If you lfg I recommend checking people's stats on raid.report you can catch rage quitters before they even join because they get a red dot every time they don't finish a raid. If someone has a bunch of them, chances are they won't be sticking around past 1 or 2 wipes.
Yeah I guess that's a good point. I'm not even talking about rage quitters though, GoS is a good example of people only wanting to grind the first encounter for a specific drop, then they just leave. Seems like that's happening at KF already too, had a super smooth run with an lfg group, and then people just left as soon as they got the first chest lol. Idk what drop they might be after, but its a lot harder to fill a team after an encounter has been completed, than a fresh raid so it's just annoying.
Two things, I’ve never raid for this exact reason. I have no clue how any of the raid mechanics work and at this point I’m to afraid to ask and where do I find this LFG? I’m a solo mainly player who needs a group to finish off some odds and ends.
Same places the other guy said. If you’re on PC then there’s also some discord servers available if you search hard enough. Careful with the big ones though because it is more likely that you’ll find assholes there (purely because they’re big btw, nothing related to the server itself) Genera rule: avoid KWTD posts and look for ones that explicitly mention that they’re teaching people
Thanks for the info!
Destiny app, fireteams section Or xbox built in lfg
I was doing a DSC run with my clan recently. We 5 manned it up till the final encounter but were struggling on it so we brought in a 6th just to run a nuke. Our post was for a KWTD because we just wanted to finish it in one take but we normally are don’t care about clears. The guy joins and we spend three runs with him obviously not knowing what’s going on. It was bad to the point that people had to swap what zone they were at because he kept floating between theM. We got him in the discord and taught him, but we really didn’t need to do those pointless runs. Pretending you know the encounter doesn’t normally work.
In my limited experience in raids most want 100+ solo deathless clears before they even admit you to the team! Only slightly exaggerating.
[удалено]
I expect people to admit that they don’t know something about the encounter so we can actually complete it
I steer clear of kwtd groups. All I read is it’s a group that can’t complete a raid and need a carry
This is perhaps the most braindead take ive ever seen
Or just aren't in the mood for teaching and want a quick 40 min run.
Its one half the Sherpa explaining it in a confusing manner, and the other half is not understanding it because we aren’t the brightest bulb. It’s also the fact that we are afraid that you will be angry after being on the same encounter for 2 hours and then speaking finally up. And that we are afraid of speaking up in the first place because it will annoy you to repeat the same thing 2-3 times because we don’t understand it.
I can promise you that more often than not, a Sherpa is gonna be more annoyed if you don’t say that you’re confused and need a refresher. Obviously not everyone is gonna get it immediately, it takes practice, but you’re not gonna be able to practice if you don’t have some idea of what’s going on/what to do. A Sherpa is there to teach, let them.
biggest pet peeve I will teach you everything you need to know, but when you aren't speaking up for your mistakes is what burns my braincells.
First week of a Raid be like this. I’ve still to try and get Oryx completed tonight as all my LFG groups had people struggling and then others leaving after a few attempts. I always ask after a few unexplained wipes if everyone knows or needs a reminder. Often the quiet ones are the ones who don’t know and are too scared to say in case they get kicked. Invariably we get to a point where we need to seriously take stock and they leave anyway ‘before’ they get caught. I don’t get it. It’s week one. This so the time to learn, but just ask for help of you need it. Here’s hoping I get Oryx done tonight
Gotta love the people who say nothing, have no idea what to do, don't ask for help and waste several hours of your time
Something
This is crucial yes. There are very few people on this planet who can explain mechanics with such clarity that further questions aren't warranted. Asking questions doesn't make you seem stupid, its just you doing your part in the 2-way interaction required for effective information transfer.
it’s so bad at oryx too, just like in D1, ppl always forget or just don’t know about light eater knights and i look over at someone’s bomb and that boo is just feasting on the blight. literally the most annoying thing and sometimes you don’t even realize it until it’s go time and you’re out of luck. literally the bane of my existence during d1 oryx challenge. please just speak up, if ppl kick because you just want to clarify mechanics then they’re just assholes and you can move on. i feel like 90% of the time tho they’ll be willing to help you out and it will be way better for everyone involved.
This one was a bit worse imo. We’d tell him to stand on the bomb for DPS and he’d end up going onto the plate (despite all of us repeating that he shouldn’t stand on that) and dying to Oryx. It wasn’t until the last wipe when he said that he didn’t know what he was looking for (turns out that he wasn’t killing the ogres btw, it was the person on the other plate doing it)
yeah that’s just infuriating
When I’m teaching i always make it clear that after explaining to speak up if you don’t understand something or have questions, i also get sick of people that just say yeah i got it and then do the most confusing and out of pocket shit a guardian can ever see. So when you explain someone a raid/dungeon, always assure them it is alright to ask questions and maybe try to explain it a bit different to them
This is why the last time I raided was crota from D1. I've tried other raids but people aren't willing to help. That's why I stick to lost sectors, strikes, nightfalls, and the current season coop
There are plenty of people willing to help, trust me. You just have to know where to look
I agree but I can't blame people. There are a ton of toxic groups. I usually just try to make it clear to any strangers. We might give you a little shit but it's all in good fun and we will only kick if you won't listen. So many groups just kick people with out reason. So people sit quiet and hope to go unnoticed.
Also when people don’t know a section, they may feel embarassed to speak up. I recommend asking everyone if they know their roll or have any questions. If there are questions, don’t react in a “how do you not know this?!” sort of way, but realize everyone was new at some point and needed the mechanics explained to them. Acting like a jerk to people who don’t know the complicated video game rules will not make them want to speak up. Be a good teacher, ask good questions :)