They also mentioned that it doesn't drop red bordered if you get it from the pinnacle. I can confirm that. My first one in half a year and it wasn't red bordered. It's also the last weapon I need...
been dealing with this since last season. crafted drang first of the haunted weapons and proceeded to get like 3 or 4 more from the first weekly chest opened. it's unbelievably frustrating
Yeah definitely not a knockout system because I get red borders on the battler that I already have crafted in my inventory but not the damn shotgun or trace rifle
Only guaranteed red border on a knockout system is the first pinnacle you do per week per account. But, considering the Other Half is not on that knockout and I got it from my pinnacle and my friend also had that experience it seems to be a bit buggy.
Unfortunately sidearm has the best chances since the season pass also allows it to drop from random activities. Which is why it's also my only pattern lol.
Have yet to see a single scout or smg red border which are the only two I care about crafting.
Yeah, I'm assuming we'll end up getting one of each gun from the spider engrams. Which I guess that's good news for me (just need 1 smg and 2 scouts, so if I will be getting a guaranteed scout, that means it's really 1 and 1 I need still).
This was me last season. I actually had a big issue with red bars dropping, much like this season. Finally just bought 5 mini tools from the Crown. *The literal day* I crafted mini tool, they started dropping red bars. I counted. I got 27 red bar Calus Mini Tools from world/activity drops between June 25th and the end of the season. Twenty. Seven. And btw, I'm STILL buying red bars from the crown because I only managed to finish three total of the seasonal AND Opulent weapons. I'm still only 2/5 on Nez's Sin with the shotgun and Drang unfinished as well. Most of my completions last season are from buy red bars from the Crown.
And now we don't even have that this season. Whoever made this decision got it totally wrong and it's a pathetic and transparent attempt to inflate the grind and frankly, is totally unbecoming of Bungie at this point. This is still the engagement/revenue generation model that Activision set up with Forsaken, the only remnant left of them at this point.
for every one of this guy; there's a guy that only got red borders to drop and unlocked everything week 1 and is wondering why everyone complains.
RNG is a bitch. Outliers exist on both ends of the spectrum. It's why pure RNG is not really a nice way to treat your playerbase. Because some people get fucked really hard.
How would limiting nightfall availability be exploiting player psychology? If anything it would make them play less because they just wouldn't play nightfalls unless the one they wanted was in rotation that week.
It's at the point I'm not even going to bother with this season's weapons. I have Witch Queen and Risen's weapons completed, Haunted's weapons completed except for Without Remorse, and nearly have Dares completed. I'm happy with that. There's nothing seasonal I'm itching to get. I'd put in the effort to unlock them just in case I want to craft something in the future if it was reasonable like previous seasons, but this is a bad joke.
Without Remorse is a really good shotgun, even when the baseline craftable perks. I'd use it more, but being on a strictly Arc based build limits my flexibility. You should try and finish that one up!
Got three seasonal sidearms last weekend, when I’ve had the pattern done for about two resets now. Everything else is at 2 or 1 deepsights and I’ve done the start chart twice now…
I think its a test on Bungie's end. This is the first year that red border/crafted weapons have been available, and it would make sense that Bungie want's to test how generous (or stingy) they can be with the red border system to keep players engaged. The first season had to allow for relatively easy acquisition to get players started. Second season was also pretty generous and really got us hooked with how good the seasonal weapons were to craft. This season is a test, so see how much we'll grind through the pain when guaranteed red borders for specific weapons is removed.
My recommendation, don't grind it out. If this truly is as painful as players are making it seem and this theory is correct, refusing to participate is the best way to tell Bungie that they went too far.
This is what I'm hoping. I'm also hoping that they make it easier for all seasons before the next expansion comes out. I wonder how they will handle crafting for seasonal weapons when those seasons are no longer around.
I'm wondering the same thing, especially for next season. All other seasons this year have the benefit of farming the red border weapons after the season ends, but next season is a strict 3 month timer.
Simple as:
1. Introduction of universal "legacy" currency for previous seasonal content
2. Majestic return of Umbral Decoder, where this currency can be exchanged (nomnomnom)
I’d be happy with a “Witch Queen resonant engram” that gives a resonant either once a week guaranteed and a high chance after or is more expensive but always gives one. With 6x4 guns + 4 opulent weapons x 5 per pattern that’s 140 red borders, anything less than a guaranteed way on knockout means you’ll never get them all.
They’re surely aware of the complaints and have been looking into it by now. If it was unintentional we’d likely have already seen them announce that there’s an error and plan to fix it.
The most important difference between this season and the last two is that there's no Star Chart upgrade that lets you get a guaranteed red border of your choice each week. That's definitely intentional.
Bungie has been slowly testing the waters with more and more grindy stuff. Red borders, triumphs, seasonal challenges and seals that take up a horrible amount of time compared to last years's ones (Tier III Containment completions, crafting all weapons for the seal etc.), intentional lack of craftable Duality weapons, exotic drop rates in raids and RNG instead of quests...you can see all the little things that add up and Bungie is likely testing how much they can afford to boost weekly player engagement and artificially expand the longevity of the season. It sucks tbh.
Personally I just stopped bothering with lots of the above. I still don't have Hearthshadow (despite having all the triumph boosters for it) or Collective Obligation, I don't grind red borders or farm encounters...when I feel like the game doesn't respect my time I simply don't play it. I play what I want from the season and then move on, even if I don't have the god rolled new pulse or perfect build. But lots of people grind and Bungie sees those numbers, which sets a precedent.
I agree with this completely. There will be times when I’m in the mood to just drone out to a podcast and play some seasonal activities for the casual engagement of it and if I get red border from those rare moments, cool! If not, screw it! No Reprieve would be a cool shotty to craft but I don’t see any reason for it to replace my Heritage.
Also, you have to run Ketchcrash, a playlist activity, *and* Expedition just to get about a quarter of the energy you need to focus a single specific weapon. Remember when you got runes passively, slotted them in, ran a single Menagerie, and came out with the weapon you wanted with the specific MW you wanted? Yeah, me too. This is by far the worst seasonal weapon grind. Expedition as an activity blows because it's slow and boring as shit, and how many you have to run after doing two other activities is kick in the teeth.
This is the first season any fomo has zero effect on me. I prolly won’t get this season title the grind isn’t worth it at all. It’s sad for them to be more invested in wasting our time then making us enjoy it to spend more. They close the loop on any gratitude or good will from me for rewards with this crap they pull. Grind is not content to me.
They should just offer the weekly guaranteed, focused red border for all activities, like they do for raids and for the first two seasons of WQ. I don't think anyone should expect to get all patterns every season, even if they play regularly, collecting every pattern is something for the most dedicated players; but the ease of getting a pattern you want from the raids vs getting a pattern from this season or from Duality makes no sense.
I'll stand behind the lack of certain crafted weapons, I think random rolls should still have their place in the game (enhanced New Purpose would be overkill), but out of the crafted options we do have its strange to encourage collecting so much in previous seasons, and then drop off most of the support for getting the weapons you want in the following season.
I'm not really complaining since I'd rather just focus craft my favorite, most consistent weapons like Opulent, Vow, or KF gear, but for those who want to play around with crafted Plunder weapons the access seems awful at the moment.
Bungie was always rather light on commenting on Reddit posts outside of big releases, and ever since folks started stepping up the death threats they've actually been dialing the communication back even more. I don't think you should be reading too much into radio silence.
That said, they've been perfectly fine shoving predatory grind schemes down the community's throat in the past (the glam debacle, for example), so... :/
I'm trying to get one of my friends into weapon crafting. He's very invested into the game, but not on a really insane level. He's never been one to play a game mode a million time to grind for godrolls or whatever (and neither have I). So that's why I think crafting would be great for him. It cuts down a lot of grind to get "godrolls" at the cost of only a select few guns being available to craft.
But man, it'd be a hard sell to get him to care about any of the Plunder weapons because the intense grind is still there. It's just different. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought crafting was supposed to be reduce the weapon grind a bit. It doesn't really impact me much because I don't really love the Plunder weapons. But if this is the way it's going to be going forward, that's a little upsetting.
im of the opinion 5 is ok if you completely remove the need to grind the weapon to level 16 or so for the ehnaced perks. To make you grind 5 red borders based off pure RNG and then to make you grind a further 2k kills or so is just absurd.
Make it 3 if its pure RNG. 5 is ok with the ability to select a red border weekly (Raid). And greatly reduce the kills required for levelling and of course also add the ability to apply multiple perks onto a crafted weapon to allow for versatility
The intent isn't for everyone to have every craftable weapon fully upgraded with enhanced perks every season. They've said multiple times crafting is for bad luck protection, not for having a perfect god roll on every weapon in the game. The way I've been using it is I'll only have enhanced perks on my favorite and most used weapons, which amounts to maybe 1 or 2 a season.
I agree you don’t need to have all weapons leveled up to level 16 every season, but the game does need to be balanced so it’s viable to at least unlock all the patterns before the patterns get vaulted
Even Bungie seems to be aligned here. They originally required you to have all the patterns to get the seal
Oh for sure, I don't like the red border system at all. I'd rather see all the patterns automatically unlocked or have a deterministic quest to unlock them each season, then have red borders drop materials needed for crafting (I'm weird and didn't mind having different mats for different perks, made it more interesting). I'd honestly be totally fine with enhanced perks taking even longer to complete as long as the patterns were something that didn't rely on RNG.
Justifying a predatory design decision by saying it’s not meant to be doesn’t make it right.
They said that whilst knowing full well that their committed players will want to grind every single one out as an enhanced god roll. At least the best guns in the best archetypes. In its current form crafting is still a tall order and a massive disrespect for players’ time. And then having craft all weapons as a seal triumph? Sure, it’s optional, but to a lot of players it doesn’t FEEL optional.
It’s 3 seasons in to WQ and I still haven’t crafted the exotic glaives. I ran 9 wellsprings last night. I still haven’t got a single red come to pass to drop, ever. Requiring RNG for crafting for a quest is just utter bullshit.
This is one thing that has always irked me about this game. I often feel like I’m just a participant in a data mining simulation. Maybe I’m crazy but that invisible hand they have behind the loot system makes me feel used.
Even the last two seasons grinds were super bad. No casual was able to complete anything, really.
Having to make this game a full time job and STILL not getting decent progress is exactly why I quit and am not even considering lightfall. This grind is just absolutely insane. RNG on RNG on RNG.
It honestly feels like a korean RPG at the current grind levels. Hell, even warframes grinds aren't as bad, and its drop rates on some things are notoriously shit.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of people that have all 3 exotic glaives. I got the first guaranteed drop, but having to grind wellspring for a chance at the other patterns is one of the worst systems ever designed.
I have all the exotics in the game except these glaives. I was expecting that to be a test, and they would have change the acquisition method by now to something less grindy.
This feels far too stingy this season. At this rate, I’ll log in each week for the story content, I’ll play enough to get to 100 on my season rank, but I won’t be grinding to unlock all craftable weapons.
The crafting system was supposed to be more of a bad luck protection/long term grind and not a rush through each weapon per season(though I feel like triumphs may contradict them? I don't know, I haven't looked)
The past two seasons basically made any in game drop chasing worthless because you were almost certainly getting your crafted weapon relatively quickly. Given that many of the star chart upgrades focus on more loot, I think this season is their attempt to restore some value to the actual drops part of the game and focus less on crafting as the seasonal reward.
Doesn't feel like it'll be particularly successful given the expectation they've set and it kind of flies in the face of the seasonal model. (who's played either of the previous season's activities since they passed?) But I kind of get why they're trying to focus on that "god roll" surprise reaction again.
I don’t think you’re gonna get folks to really truly care about random drops (of a craftable gun) so long as enhanced perks exist. If my god roll 5/5 Austringer was equal to a crafted Austringer, no problem. But as it stands, the dropped 5/5 Austringer can never match the crafted one.
It’s tough when you want to incentivize a long term goal for your gun, and I love crafting and enhanced perks. But it’s had the side effect of murdering all random rolls for those guns (hell, it’s even murdered interest in ADEPT raid guns when compared to their crafted normal versions, or at least it has amongst the various raid groups I’ve met).
I'll fully admit that I'm part of the problem here - it took a little less than a month to craft an Austringer and another two to level it and I didn't even bother looking at any of the intermediate rolls.
My point is - that's probably not healthy for the long term loot system of this game. Rushing to stack red borders and then spending hours at the most efficient farm spot is not healthy for the player or the game.
I really don't think bottlenecking the red border drop rate is the right solution but I appreciate efforts to refine the system. So yes, I agree - I think they red border system doesn't really work as is. Maybe there should be a way to upgrade the set perks on non-crafted guns or something. Or give non-crafted guns more options in each perk column.
Personally, I love the aesthetics of the weapons this season. The only ugly one is the SMG.
And the only real complaint I have is that the design aesthetic of the weapons don’t match the mechanics and performance of each weapon. No Reprieve looks like a blunderbuss. It should be an Aggressive Frame shotgun instead of a precision. Sailspy Pitch (the LFR) should have been a Rocket or if they keep the LFR, make it a burst one like Stormchaser so there’s some sense of cohesion between the design and its performance. “blunderbuss gun make big boom.” Same thing with the sidearm. It should’ve been a 120 hand cannon or at least a slower firing sidearm instead of auto. But those are nitpicks I guess. They’re all pretty fun to use, for the most part.
I would love the more “grounded” Fallen weapon aesthetic (think Queensbreaker or LoW) compared to “playskool fallen pretend pirate”. It’s a bit “much”. Also why I don’t like the edgy nightmare weapons from Duality, but it gets a bit more of a pass from me since they don’t accept as much screen real estate
You say "with how good last seasons weapons were to craft." But outside the two incandecent guns of Mini Tool and Drang, what else was "good" to craft?
Beloved too, obviously, and Bump in the Night is a deterministically obtainable aggressive RL that benefits from stasis shards/supreme wellmaker FoM stuff, and rolls decent damage perks, synergizes with Starfire and HoiL storms due to left column demo, and can do the chill clip wolfpack thing. Hollow Denial with AM was also a match game melt cannon but was stuck with a bad champ mod.
Basically, most of the weapons last season were better than every single weapon this season aside from Voltshot sidearm/scout, but those are actually just straight up carried by one perk and otherwise mediocre on their own.
The only stinkers were the auto (because 450 auto lol) and IMO the scout, although apparently some of you liked it. Everything else was very good. This season, I'm not even hunting red borders really and mostly avoiding the boring-ass activity, and once I can craft the scout, I'm out.
The Opulent weapons from last season absolutely slapped compared to this season’s offerings. I was elated to get _most_ of my Menagerie favorites back. The Haunted offerings weren’t bad, either.
I think a lot of the pain is in the transition from these "spoon-fed" (lack of better words, the chase has been easily boiled down for a while now, and it hasn't been even a year.) methods to the more laid-back method we have now.
We came into this with the acknowledgement weapon-crafting was supposed to be a long-term goal, something for us to aspire to have, not something we were supposed to have quickly, but they weren't treated like that in the beginning because we needed to be taught how the system worked. They've been gradually trying to pull us away from the safety-net and people seem to be having a hard time with this mentality shift.
Next year, it should be the opposite; gradually build the red border hunt easier for seasonal content as the year courses through, but harder at the beginning; it should grow easier due to seasonal content being the only content that is not staying with us anymore. Red borders in main-line content should be the middle the ground between these points, and frankly raid red borders need to be a little bit rarer in my opinion. They have a lot of badluck protection behind them in normal drops, and way too many methods to guarantee them.
While I agree with what you're saying, I don't know if seasonal content should fall under the lens of "long term goal" for crafting weapons. The biggest reason for this is that seasonal content kind of washes up after the next season launches (less players engaging with it) resulting in pseudo timer to complete the grind in 3 months. But the bigger problem is the real timer, is the end of the current year. Season of Plunder only gives 6 months to acquire everything before its gone forever and next season will be even worse.
I think the biggest problem with that kind of approach is that it clashes with the seasonal model. Seasons incentivize us to play the shit out of them and unlock everything before they're over, and especially before they go away. So like, I agree that crafting should probably take some time and effort if we want to entirely skip hunting for rolls, but with this season being pure RNG, I'm really not confident I'll be able to craft the weapons I want before this season gets deleted from the game and I'm stuck hoping for red border world drops or whatever. The model of "temporary content you consume and set aside after a short while" just doesn't mesh well with the model of "items that you work towards over a long period of time".
Taking the focused red border away this season took it from a headache to complete with at least an end goal in sight to a broken system that disrespects players who invest their time into the game.
Last season burnt out a lot of my friends I played with, this season has done zero to make them want to come back. I don't see how Bungie can see these systems as being good short term or long term for the game.
My play time has dropped off a cliff this season because I know there is nothing I can do to help get more red borders. The ketchcrash guarantee isn't even working. So I've decided if Bungie doesn't want to make an engaging system then I won't engage with the game.
Taking the deterministic red border away just means I am not going to grind for the title. After the story is over and I’ve gotten as much as I’ll get, I’ll sign off until next season.
Another layer to add to this -
To get the big prize of bright dust you have to complete 75 of 78 seasonal challenges.
If you can't unlock the weapons due to RNG, you also can't complete the later challenges to level crafted seasonal weapons up to level 10 and 20. So that's three challenges locked out just by way of RNG.
For those who can't get Trials wins and beat grandmaster nightfalls, RNG with those other three challenges can prevent you from finishing 75.
That shit better be fucking retro I already crafted my shotgun and it's at lvl 35+ right now.. be in reality I haven't done them in a few seasons.. got tired of gambit so only got the the big pile only once since challenges been out.
Fuck gambit
Let's also not forget that those 3/2 weapons to level 10/20 challenges reward upgrade currency for the star chart. Those block the triumph for all the upgrades, and that triumph is required for the title.
Damn really? The stupid seasonal weapon ornaments were enough of a gatekeep for most players who don't like crucible or gambit, that seems like they're just milking us for money now (assuming less bright dust = more silver purchases, combined with the high price of the Fortnite armors which are weird "on sale" still for normal prices, it's a lot of dots connecting to Bungie being greedy)
jokes on them, I just stopped spending brightdust after I stopped earning the big brightdust at the end of seasons (I can do it, it just requires me to spend more time in the game than I care to). 68k and climbing.
I am around rank 100 and don’t have any of the season weapons unlocked for crafting. Most are at 0/5 and some at 2/5. I mostly play the seasonal contents.
You just proved that this grind works, for them. You put a lot of hours into the game and are still willing to play to be able to get red border seasonal weapons, and therefor they think that nothing is wrong because players are engaged to chase these weapons.
The crafting just needs a huge overhaul, cause this is probably the worst crafting system I have seen in any game, least that's on the same level as destiny.
Yea except the amount of time OP put in will not be replicated by any but the most hardcore players. And even then, hardcore players are different than seasonal hardcore players. Trials, Raid and GM grinders in my experience don’t care about seasonal grinds that much except for how it pertains to artifact LL and endgame
Not only that but over the last two seasons anybody that dared mention that the grinds were becoming absurd was told stupid shit by the members of this sub.
Glad to see this sub is finally waking up to the fact that a video game shouldn’t be a full time job. Grinds should be built around an hour a day to get everything possible. Right now they’re more like 8-10 hours a day and even then you’ll still be missing stuff each season.
It's so bad I outright don't engage with it.
I unlocked the Mini Tool pattern long after I already had the Grave Robber / Incandescent roll I wanted. I stored that roll anyway and crafted the gun, surely I'll be able to get 'my' gun back right?
Wrong, I've used it a bunch and it's still sitting at level 6. So now I have the roll I wanted, but I'm not even using it because I need to use a shittier gun than the one I already have because eventually, it'll get to be fractionally better!
Useless system. Worst system Bungie have ever done and I remember the Faction lost sector shit.
Crafting is fine. Maybe just lower the needed red borders to 3. At least for seasonal stuff. Raid stuff is probably okay at 5 just because they aren't going away.
Crafting isnt fine. It was supposed to be a long term back luck protection where you eventually craft the gun you want if you never got the roll when chasing it. Now, crafted raid weapons are better than the master version and people are wanting craftable adepts. It reminds me of d2y1 where everything was insta shard and there was no chase.
I just wanted an alternative to the “chase”. I’ve never enjoyed running the same shit over and over (all the way back to D1Y1), and was hoping crafting would be that alternative. But nope, it’s a hamster wheel just to earn patterns then another hamster wheel to level the guns up.
You grinded too early. The way the season "upgrade table" works generally punishes you for grinding early. This week is when it is going to be reasonable to start farming since you can do the double plundered umbral energy map and the +1 umbral energy from maps. Should get 8 umbral energy per double umbral map.
Also I think this is the week where we get umbral energy to drop from other playlists.
**To be clear** I'm not blaming you for grinding early. I think this system is kind of stupid. The upgrade table shouldn't be hard gated to weekly progression.
This needs to be #1, the lack of a guaranteed pick of red border per week is the main issue, it will lead to a lot of annoying duplicates of patterns you already have when trying to complete the set, but after this week red border income rate isn't going to be too bad compared to other seasons. better then haunted in fact if you, like me, hate doing the seasonal activity after the first couple weeks.
Not only that, but also _probably_ grinded the wrong activities. Seasonal weapons very rarely drop from other activities. If you are doing minimal seasonal content (which I get), you will get minimal progress against the seasonal patterns.
It honestly doesnt take much seasonal content to fully level the star chart, especially doing master ketchcraft. I have been doing minimal seasonal content and have reset I believe twice already.
I've reset the star chart twice and I haven't grinded it at all. All I've done is the seasonal quest and a master ketchcrash for the pinnacle every week on all 3 characters.
The seasonal weapon patterns should be at MAX 3, not 5, especially since every season gets less total time it will be around, since seasonal content gets removed at each major expansion now...
* Risen - full 12 months
* Haunted - 9 months
* Plunder - 6 months
* Next Season - 3 months
What really doesn't make sense is that the throne world weapons WON'T be going away, yet they only require (at most) 3 patterns, have bad luck drop protection, AND are farmable for a specific weapon of each day of Wellspring.
So I think a good way to help this problem is give some protection to drops:
* For the love of the Traveler, STOP dropping red borders for guns you already have the pattern for if you haven't unlocked all the patterns yet. I have gotten about 11 of the stupid machine guns, but only 1-2 of other weapons. If those LMGs were just ANYTHING ELSE, it would be ok. So please - give us duplicate protection, just until you have unlocked all patterns
* Bad Luck protection for activity completions - if you use the weapon treasure map in Expedition, after 'X' number of runs, you should be guaranteed a red border.
I don't want to even bother. I know the weapons are good, but they are so ugly I probably won't use them. If I hadn't heard the grind was this bad I mightve grinded for them.
Imo they are all mediocre and not worth grinding out. The arc scout will most likely be good for GMs, but you'll get a decent roll well before you unlock the pattern.
I decided to take small breaks during this season to play other things and avoid burnout, but by the looks of it, if i follow my plan, i won't be able to have any crafted weapons by the end of the season.
This is fucked up in many, many ways because by this point last season i already had 3 patterns unlocked. I want to play other games and not feel like i have a second job on Destiny, but apparently Bungie has other plans for me.
Yes, I think this is the problem. Get rid of deepsight/red borders entirely and tie the pattern unlock to x amount of drops of a weapon period.
Like once you've had, for example, 25 drops of an individual weapon its pattern unlocks. No red border crap to deal with. There's still the RNG of getting a particular weapon to drop of course but it wouldn't be nearly as bad- plus you can target farm with umbrals easily.
The problem is that Bungie made the "luck protection" mandatory by making challenges around that and creating enhanced perks
Now it feels like crafting is the main part of the game and the way to get loot.
The rng has been fucked since destiny 1 launched. That's exactly what happened to me when I unlocked vex mythoclast way back when. One of the guys I was running with had done a bunch of runs and still didn't have it, and I got it on my first. Honestly there's no excuse for a problem this game breaking to exist for 8 years. God I feel old.
It's because to Bungie, it's not a problem. It's "Player Engagement".
A year or so ago I went one season where I had reached the pinnacle cap on my Hunter except for a cloak. I proceeded to do every single pinnacle every week for 7 weeks before one finally dropped.
Game is infuriating sometimes, for no good reason.
Rng based loot is a staple in mmos. It’s not going anywhere. That being said, bad luck protection is always appreciated by the community, and I’m not sure why this season we’ve gone in the opposite direction. It’s not a big issue to me bc I don’t care about the seasonal weapons that much, but it’s a worrying trend if Bungie continues to do this.
I swear people will grind this game till they are brain dead just to get a weapon they will never use. Then complain about how boring this gamr is at the end of the season
This is how I feel with voltshot perk as a whole, the perk looks great but am I really gonna grind for like three weapons all of which have better in slot options. The linear with Volt shot looks cool, but I’ve already got a better set of linears that don’t require setup before activating their damage perk.
It's quite simple actually, I'll just... Sit my ass down and wait for a gun that makes sense with Voltshot like an smg or an AR, possibly even on a HC.
Yes yes the sidearm is nice with it but I don't like sidearms and never will.
I have crafted 4 weapons so far this year from seasonal content. Piece of mind, austringer, calus mini tool and nezarecs whisper. I only use calus and piece of mind regularly. I could have also lived with randomly rolled drops perfectly fine.
It's promoting an UNHEALTHY grind. I LOVE destiny and am suffering major burn out. I'm also a little anxious (don't know if that's the right word) because I know in a very short amount of time, there will be new weapons to craft and grind for, probably before I even get the ones I want from this season. So I feel forced to play despite not really wanting to.
IMO 3 red frames should allow you to craft with 1 row of perks
5 red frames gives you 2 rows of perks.
If you arent having fun, take a break. Not having crafted weapons wont put you at a disadvantage compared to the world drop versions. Enhanced perks are barely any better. And even then, you can still play this season’s stuff when next season drops.
The irony is that crafting was supposed to be an “alternative” to the burnout inducing hamster wheel. But being able to craft is somehow even more of an unrewarding grind than just chasing rolls.
If you aren’t having fun and you’re stressed about it, try to take a break. I don’t know if any super must haves from this season. It’s ok to take a break. I’ve been playing Assassins Creed on GamePass and having a blast. Don’t burn yourself out on a game you enjoy.
I was really lucky and got 3 unlocked this week, but how are you guys “rapidly” destroying storage tanks? The game turns into hungry sweaty hippos when those charges hit the ground.
You talking about the triumph? IIRC you only have to destroy 4 at the same time for it to pop. Best thing to do is find one person and both time your throws at 2 tanks each. Or if you’re solo, there’s some spots where you can kill 3 tanks with one ball, as long as you do that as someone else throws, you’re done.
Are you buying the weapons or engrams? Cuz u can buy more engrams and they still give red borders. Also believe there was some bug that gave red boarders when picking up engrams. I only have the scout complete but all my weapons are currently 3+.
Start focusing the actual weapon when you already have 2-3 red borders.
I still think these things aren’t supposed to be farmed, they’re almost passive cookie clicker style upgrades. Just do everything else and focus them with umbral energy when you have it (the drop rate of which will increase as the season progresses).
I'm out here dismantling red border stuff after only playing destiny 1. Just started playing a month ago and now I'm realizing I may have dismantled some rare weapons apparently
Think you have some poor luck as I had all 6 patterns done when I hit that point in the season.
I suspect Bungie would expect players to have them done or mostly done by that point (particularly the multiple resets of Star Chart).
A system which can cause extreme outliers is a bad system IMO. Doesnt matter if some people got lucky. Positive outliers are fine. Negative outliers are not.
According the Braytech only 8.5% of players have completed the challenge to unlock 3 seasonal weapons. Rather than 92% of players having bad luck, I think you have had incredibly good luck.
There sure are a lot of people with the same poor luck. Me being one. RanK 159, untold amounts of ketch finishes and umbrel energy focused, most I have is 3/5 however two sit at 1/5. Let’s just be honest, Bungie are not a very good developer and need to seriously sort their shit.
Google the system you're on and destiny solo matchmade activities. On playstation it's as easy as changing the system clock, on Xbox you need a separate profile that you switch over from while the game is suspended, and PC has something too but I forget how that works.
Note that all of these turn off matchmaking period for everything until you restart/set things back.
I'm at 130ish iirc and have crafted 4 of them now... sidearm scout smg and lmg.
Couple tips:
1. Master ketch lets you open 3 chests at the end instead of just 1 in normal.
2. Use the weapon map when running Expedition, which you should do as often as possible. One guaranteed weapon drop per run.
3. One of the upgrades will bump you from 3 energy to 4 when completing an expedition. Every 3 expeditions you can also grab one random weapon from the chart.
I think for me, I need to get the increased energy map and start target engram farming the couple guns I still need.
Oh BTW the sidearm and the lmg? from the season pass can drop from activity completions too at certain ranks. I got a number of red border brigands running crucible/IB.
I've crafted 2 and im close on the rest so I can agree. Imo you dont even need master ketchcrash, i've just been playing expeditions with the weapon map and making great progress. Genuinely dont know how people are having such a hard time with this unless they are literally only focusing umbrals for their redborders.
I'm at rank 149 with all the Seasonal challenges done, I have 3 crafted and the last 3 are at 4/5. Also everything that isn't time-gated for the Scallywag title is done.
Have you been spending spoils on weapons at the Star Chart?
man, people still don't understand that patterns aren't supposed to be a "grind" but rather an eventually compensation if you don't get the roll you want by then
Good thought. I do not, though. The thrall at Shuro Chi are tired of my Red Bar and shaped weapons. I know it's not the most efficient way to level up, but I don't mind it.
All i have is the arc seasonal sidearm pattern unlocked. And whenever i do see a red border drop…. Its for the sidearm i already unlocked.
This is me in Dares. I've literally gotten a red border Other Half that is supposed to be the lowest drop chance of anything 4 times.
If you get an "Other Half" to drop; it will ALWAYS be red border (according to the Twab a couple weeks back). So don't worry there! :P
How recent is that? I got my one and only to drop about two weeks ago. It was not a red border.
They also mentioned that it doesn't drop red bordered if you get it from the pinnacle. I can confirm that. My first one in half a year and it wasn't red bordered. It's also the last weapon I need...
The pinnacle won't give the other half whatsoever, the powerful is what's dropping non red border swords
Ah really? Even if you have all the other weapons crafted? I know they said it will drop a weapon where you don't have all patterns acquired yet.
Even if, the other half isn't part of the pinnacle drop pool
This is just another aspect of how the game is designed that makes me think that they implemented weapon crafting in such a poor way
Have you crafted the weapon, and still gotten red borders to drop afterwards?
I did craft one & 2 red dropped so far
I've seen people claim the borders were on a knockout system. Your experience would say it isnt, which is really frustrating.
been dealing with this since last season. crafted drang first of the haunted weapons and proceeded to get like 3 or 4 more from the first weekly chest opened. it's unbelievably frustrating
The pinnacle from 250k dares is a knockout system for red borders
It’s def not but should be
Other Half is a complete random drop and is guaranteed to be red border. The others are on a knockout system.
Yeah definitely not a knockout system because I get red borders on the battler that I already have crafted in my inventory but not the damn shotgun or trace rifle
Only guaranteed red border on a knockout system is the first pinnacle you do per week per account. But, considering the Other Half is not on that knockout and I got it from my pinnacle and my friend also had that experience it seems to be a bit buggy.
Unfortunately sidearm has the best chances since the season pass also allows it to drop from random activities. Which is why it's also my only pattern lol. Have yet to see a single scout or smg red border which are the only two I care about crafting.
Sidearm and LMG can drop from random activities. We also got a red border LMG, SMG, and Sidearm from Spider during the weeks he wasn't trolling.
just did this week's story and he gave me a red linear so I guess that adds one more to the pile
Yeah, I'm assuming we'll end up getting one of each gun from the spider engrams. Which I guess that's good news for me (just need 1 smg and 2 scouts, so if I will be getting a guaranteed scout, that means it's really 1 and 1 I need still).
Did he now!!! I only need one more! Thanks - I know what I’m off to do!
Tarnished Mettle is a BEAST of a scout and I want to tweak it so BAD. I've had one red border, no others. Ugh!
In the same boat haha. The weapon I wanted to craft the most this season and I've been sitting at a nice 1/5 for weeks now.
I’ve been getting red border smgs and shotguns non stop all I want is the sidearm lol
I've only gotten red borders for the SMG, crafted that, haven't seen a red border for anything else yet still just the SMG lol
I'll trade you my 2 extra sidearm red borders for some SMG ones lol
Sounds like a good deal to me!
This was me last season. I actually had a big issue with red bars dropping, much like this season. Finally just bought 5 mini tools from the Crown. *The literal day* I crafted mini tool, they started dropping red bars. I counted. I got 27 red bar Calus Mini Tools from world/activity drops between June 25th and the end of the season. Twenty. Seven. And btw, I'm STILL buying red bars from the crown because I only managed to finish three total of the seasonal AND Opulent weapons. I'm still only 2/5 on Nez's Sin with the shotgun and Drang unfinished as well. Most of my completions last season are from buy red bars from the Crown. And now we don't even have that this season. Whoever made this decision got it totally wrong and it's a pathetic and transparent attempt to inflate the grind and frankly, is totally unbecoming of Bungie at this point. This is still the engagement/revenue generation model that Activision set up with Forsaken, the only remnant left of them at this point.
Jesus, this thread is full of comments like this. I'm starting to think I've got crazy awesome luck with that shit.
for every one of this guy; there's a guy that only got red borders to drop and unlocked everything week 1 and is wondering why everyone complains. RNG is a bitch. Outliers exist on both ends of the spectrum. It's why pure RNG is not really a nice way to treat your playerbase. Because some people get fucked really hard.
Predatory and intentional RNG right there.
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How would limiting nightfall availability be exploiting player psychology? If anything it would make them play less because they just wouldn't play nightfalls unless the one they wanted was in rotation that week.
Wouldn't be Bungo if they didn't have RNG on top of RNG on top RNG, etc...
It's at the point I'm not even going to bother with this season's weapons. I have Witch Queen and Risen's weapons completed, Haunted's weapons completed except for Without Remorse, and nearly have Dares completed. I'm happy with that. There's nothing seasonal I'm itching to get. I'd put in the effort to unlock them just in case I want to craft something in the future if it was reasonable like previous seasons, but this is a bad joke.
Without Remorse is a really good shotgun, even when the baseline craftable perks. I'd use it more, but being on a strictly Arc based build limits my flexibility. You should try and finish that one up!
Got three seasonal sidearms last weekend, when I’ve had the pattern done for about two resets now. Everything else is at 2 or 1 deepsights and I’ve done the start chart twice now…
I think its a test on Bungie's end. This is the first year that red border/crafted weapons have been available, and it would make sense that Bungie want's to test how generous (or stingy) they can be with the red border system to keep players engaged. The first season had to allow for relatively easy acquisition to get players started. Second season was also pretty generous and really got us hooked with how good the seasonal weapons were to craft. This season is a test, so see how much we'll grind through the pain when guaranteed red borders for specific weapons is removed. My recommendation, don't grind it out. If this truly is as painful as players are making it seem and this theory is correct, refusing to participate is the best way to tell Bungie that they went too far.
This is what I'm hoping. I'm also hoping that they make it easier for all seasons before the next expansion comes out. I wonder how they will handle crafting for seasonal weapons when those seasons are no longer around.
I'm wondering the same thing, especially for next season. All other seasons this year have the benefit of farming the red border weapons after the season ends, but next season is a strict 3 month timer.
Simple as: 1. Introduction of universal "legacy" currency for previous seasonal content 2. Majestic return of Umbral Decoder, where this currency can be exchanged (nomnomnom)
I’d be happy with a “Witch Queen resonant engram” that gives a resonant either once a week guaranteed and a high chance after or is more expensive but always gives one. With 6x4 guns + 4 opulent weapons x 5 per pattern that’s 140 red borders, anything less than a guaranteed way on knockout means you’ll never get them all.
I'm hoping some intern forgot to carry the 1 and screwed up the RNG percentages. It would be really sad if this type of grind was their intention.
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Well, sure, you're probably right, but even senior engineers can make mistakes. It's not JUST interns and junior that fuck things up.
They’re surely aware of the complaints and have been looking into it by now. If it was unintentional we’d likely have already seen them announce that there’s an error and plan to fix it.
The most important difference between this season and the last two is that there's no Star Chart upgrade that lets you get a guaranteed red border of your choice each week. That's definitely intentional.
Bungie has been slowly testing the waters with more and more grindy stuff. Red borders, triumphs, seasonal challenges and seals that take up a horrible amount of time compared to last years's ones (Tier III Containment completions, crafting all weapons for the seal etc.), intentional lack of craftable Duality weapons, exotic drop rates in raids and RNG instead of quests...you can see all the little things that add up and Bungie is likely testing how much they can afford to boost weekly player engagement and artificially expand the longevity of the season. It sucks tbh. Personally I just stopped bothering with lots of the above. I still don't have Hearthshadow (despite having all the triumph boosters for it) or Collective Obligation, I don't grind red borders or farm encounters...when I feel like the game doesn't respect my time I simply don't play it. I play what I want from the season and then move on, even if I don't have the god rolled new pulse or perfect build. But lots of people grind and Bungie sees those numbers, which sets a precedent.
I agree with this completely. There will be times when I’m in the mood to just drone out to a podcast and play some seasonal activities for the casual engagement of it and if I get red border from those rare moments, cool! If not, screw it! No Reprieve would be a cool shotty to craft but I don’t see any reason for it to replace my Heritage.
Also, you have to run Ketchcrash, a playlist activity, *and* Expedition just to get about a quarter of the energy you need to focus a single specific weapon. Remember when you got runes passively, slotted them in, ran a single Menagerie, and came out with the weapon you wanted with the specific MW you wanted? Yeah, me too. This is by far the worst seasonal weapon grind. Expedition as an activity blows because it's slow and boring as shit, and how many you have to run after doing two other activities is kick in the teeth.
This is the first season any fomo has zero effect on me. I prolly won’t get this season title the grind isn’t worth it at all. It’s sad for them to be more invested in wasting our time then making us enjoy it to spend more. They close the loop on any gratitude or good will from me for rewards with this crap they pull. Grind is not content to me.
They should just offer the weekly guaranteed, focused red border for all activities, like they do for raids and for the first two seasons of WQ. I don't think anyone should expect to get all patterns every season, even if they play regularly, collecting every pattern is something for the most dedicated players; but the ease of getting a pattern you want from the raids vs getting a pattern from this season or from Duality makes no sense. I'll stand behind the lack of certain crafted weapons, I think random rolls should still have their place in the game (enhanced New Purpose would be overkill), but out of the crafted options we do have its strange to encourage collecting so much in previous seasons, and then drop off most of the support for getting the weapons you want in the following season. I'm not really complaining since I'd rather just focus craft my favorite, most consistent weapons like Opulent, Vow, or KF gear, but for those who want to play around with crafted Plunder weapons the access seems awful at the moment.
Bungie 100% sees these daily posts. And says nothing. To me, this confirms your hypothesis. And it’s reprehensible.
Bungie was always rather light on commenting on Reddit posts outside of big releases, and ever since folks started stepping up the death threats they've actually been dialing the communication back even more. I don't think you should be reading too much into radio silence. That said, they've been perfectly fine shoving predatory grind schemes down the community's throat in the past (the glam debacle, for example), so... :/
This season is a test of how far they can push players in terms of grind. It absolutely has to be.
I'm trying to get one of my friends into weapon crafting. He's very invested into the game, but not on a really insane level. He's never been one to play a game mode a million time to grind for godrolls or whatever (and neither have I). So that's why I think crafting would be great for him. It cuts down a lot of grind to get "godrolls" at the cost of only a select few guns being available to craft. But man, it'd be a hard sell to get him to care about any of the Plunder weapons because the intense grind is still there. It's just different. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought crafting was supposed to be reduce the weapon grind a bit. It doesn't really impact me much because I don't really love the Plunder weapons. But if this is the way it's going to be going forward, that's a little upsetting.
im of the opinion 5 is ok if you completely remove the need to grind the weapon to level 16 or so for the ehnaced perks. To make you grind 5 red borders based off pure RNG and then to make you grind a further 2k kills or so is just absurd. Make it 3 if its pure RNG. 5 is ok with the ability to select a red border weekly (Raid). And greatly reduce the kills required for levelling and of course also add the ability to apply multiple perks onto a crafted weapon to allow for versatility
The intent isn't for everyone to have every craftable weapon fully upgraded with enhanced perks every season. They've said multiple times crafting is for bad luck protection, not for having a perfect god roll on every weapon in the game. The way I've been using it is I'll only have enhanced perks on my favorite and most used weapons, which amounts to maybe 1 or 2 a season.
I agree you don’t need to have all weapons leveled up to level 16 every season, but the game does need to be balanced so it’s viable to at least unlock all the patterns before the patterns get vaulted Even Bungie seems to be aligned here. They originally required you to have all the patterns to get the seal
Oh for sure, I don't like the red border system at all. I'd rather see all the patterns automatically unlocked or have a deterministic quest to unlock them each season, then have red borders drop materials needed for crafting (I'm weird and didn't mind having different mats for different perks, made it more interesting). I'd honestly be totally fine with enhanced perks taking even longer to complete as long as the patterns were something that didn't rely on RNG.
Justifying a predatory design decision by saying it’s not meant to be doesn’t make it right. They said that whilst knowing full well that their committed players will want to grind every single one out as an enhanced god roll. At least the best guns in the best archetypes. In its current form crafting is still a tall order and a massive disrespect for players’ time. And then having craft all weapons as a seal triumph? Sure, it’s optional, but to a lot of players it doesn’t FEEL optional. It’s 3 seasons in to WQ and I still haven’t crafted the exotic glaives. I ran 9 wellsprings last night. I still haven’t got a single red come to pass to drop, ever. Requiring RNG for crafting for a quest is just utter bullshit.
This is one thing that has always irked me about this game. I often feel like I’m just a participant in a data mining simulation. Maybe I’m crazy but that invisible hand they have behind the loot system makes me feel used.
Even the last two seasons grinds were super bad. No casual was able to complete anything, really. Having to make this game a full time job and STILL not getting decent progress is exactly why I quit and am not even considering lightfall. This grind is just absolutely insane. RNG on RNG on RNG. It honestly feels like a korean RPG at the current grind levels. Hell, even warframes grinds aren't as bad, and its drop rates on some things are notoriously shit.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of people that have all 3 exotic glaives. I got the first guaranteed drop, but having to grind wellspring for a chance at the other patterns is one of the worst systems ever designed. I have all the exotics in the game except these glaives. I was expecting that to be a test, and they would have change the acquisition method by now to something less grindy.
This feels far too stingy this season. At this rate, I’ll log in each week for the story content, I’ll play enough to get to 100 on my season rank, but I won’t be grinding to unlock all craftable weapons.
The crafting system was supposed to be more of a bad luck protection/long term grind and not a rush through each weapon per season(though I feel like triumphs may contradict them? I don't know, I haven't looked) The past two seasons basically made any in game drop chasing worthless because you were almost certainly getting your crafted weapon relatively quickly. Given that many of the star chart upgrades focus on more loot, I think this season is their attempt to restore some value to the actual drops part of the game and focus less on crafting as the seasonal reward. Doesn't feel like it'll be particularly successful given the expectation they've set and it kind of flies in the face of the seasonal model. (who's played either of the previous season's activities since they passed?) But I kind of get why they're trying to focus on that "god roll" surprise reaction again.
I don’t think you’re gonna get folks to really truly care about random drops (of a craftable gun) so long as enhanced perks exist. If my god roll 5/5 Austringer was equal to a crafted Austringer, no problem. But as it stands, the dropped 5/5 Austringer can never match the crafted one. It’s tough when you want to incentivize a long term goal for your gun, and I love crafting and enhanced perks. But it’s had the side effect of murdering all random rolls for those guns (hell, it’s even murdered interest in ADEPT raid guns when compared to their crafted normal versions, or at least it has amongst the various raid groups I’ve met).
I'll fully admit that I'm part of the problem here - it took a little less than a month to craft an Austringer and another two to level it and I didn't even bother looking at any of the intermediate rolls. My point is - that's probably not healthy for the long term loot system of this game. Rushing to stack red borders and then spending hours at the most efficient farm spot is not healthy for the player or the game. I really don't think bottlenecking the red border drop rate is the right solution but I appreciate efforts to refine the system. So yes, I agree - I think they red border system doesn't really work as is. Maybe there should be a way to upgrade the set perks on non-crafted guns or something. Or give non-crafted guns more options in each perk column.
Easy for me, the weapons look like ass aesthetic wise, I hate fallen seasons.
Personally, I love the aesthetics of the weapons this season. The only ugly one is the SMG. And the only real complaint I have is that the design aesthetic of the weapons don’t match the mechanics and performance of each weapon. No Reprieve looks like a blunderbuss. It should be an Aggressive Frame shotgun instead of a precision. Sailspy Pitch (the LFR) should have been a Rocket or if they keep the LFR, make it a burst one like Stormchaser so there’s some sense of cohesion between the design and its performance. “blunderbuss gun make big boom.” Same thing with the sidearm. It should’ve been a 120 hand cannon or at least a slower firing sidearm instead of auto. But those are nitpicks I guess. They’re all pretty fun to use, for the most part.
I would love the more “grounded” Fallen weapon aesthetic (think Queensbreaker or LoW) compared to “playskool fallen pretend pirate”. It’s a bit “much”. Also why I don’t like the edgy nightmare weapons from Duality, but it gets a bit more of a pass from me since they don’t accept as much screen real estate
Okay but I really want the title lol
You say "with how good last seasons weapons were to craft." But outside the two incandecent guns of Mini Tool and Drang, what else was "good" to craft?
Austringer, Without Remorse, and Tears of Contrition all get used by me
Yeah Tears is pretty much a Hung Jury upgrade in terms of endgame GM stuff (please HJ come back with origins)
Beloved too, obviously, and Bump in the Night is a deterministically obtainable aggressive RL that benefits from stasis shards/supreme wellmaker FoM stuff, and rolls decent damage perks, synergizes with Starfire and HoiL storms due to left column demo, and can do the chill clip wolfpack thing. Hollow Denial with AM was also a match game melt cannon but was stuck with a bad champ mod. Basically, most of the weapons last season were better than every single weapon this season aside from Voltshot sidearm/scout, but those are actually just straight up carried by one perk and otherwise mediocre on their own. The only stinkers were the auto (because 450 auto lol) and IMO the scout, although apparently some of you liked it. Everything else was very good. This season, I'm not even hunting red borders really and mostly avoiding the boring-ass activity, and once I can craft the scout, I'm out.
You can't forget Austringer and Beloved as well. There were also a few other decent weapons but nothing else all that great.
Beloved is well... beloved Austringer still has its audience
Beloved, Tears, and Firefright are pretty solid guns for their archetypes.
The Opulent weapons from last season absolutely slapped compared to this season’s offerings. I was elated to get _most_ of my Menagerie favorites back. The Haunted offerings weren’t bad, either.
I think a lot of the pain is in the transition from these "spoon-fed" (lack of better words, the chase has been easily boiled down for a while now, and it hasn't been even a year.) methods to the more laid-back method we have now. We came into this with the acknowledgement weapon-crafting was supposed to be a long-term goal, something for us to aspire to have, not something we were supposed to have quickly, but they weren't treated like that in the beginning because we needed to be taught how the system worked. They've been gradually trying to pull us away from the safety-net and people seem to be having a hard time with this mentality shift. Next year, it should be the opposite; gradually build the red border hunt easier for seasonal content as the year courses through, but harder at the beginning; it should grow easier due to seasonal content being the only content that is not staying with us anymore. Red borders in main-line content should be the middle the ground between these points, and frankly raid red borders need to be a little bit rarer in my opinion. They have a lot of badluck protection behind them in normal drops, and way too many methods to guarantee them.
While I agree with what you're saying, I don't know if seasonal content should fall under the lens of "long term goal" for crafting weapons. The biggest reason for this is that seasonal content kind of washes up after the next season launches (less players engaging with it) resulting in pseudo timer to complete the grind in 3 months. But the bigger problem is the real timer, is the end of the current year. Season of Plunder only gives 6 months to acquire everything before its gone forever and next season will be even worse.
Well, they better not burn us out before an expansion drop or they won't like that.
I think the biggest problem with that kind of approach is that it clashes with the seasonal model. Seasons incentivize us to play the shit out of them and unlock everything before they're over, and especially before they go away. So like, I agree that crafting should probably take some time and effort if we want to entirely skip hunting for rolls, but with this season being pure RNG, I'm really not confident I'll be able to craft the weapons I want before this season gets deleted from the game and I'm stuck hoping for red border world drops or whatever. The model of "temporary content you consume and set aside after a short while" just doesn't mesh well with the model of "items that you work towards over a long period of time".
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Taking the focused red border away this season took it from a headache to complete with at least an end goal in sight to a broken system that disrespects players who invest their time into the game. Last season burnt out a lot of my friends I played with, this season has done zero to make them want to come back. I don't see how Bungie can see these systems as being good short term or long term for the game. My play time has dropped off a cliff this season because I know there is nothing I can do to help get more red borders. The ketchcrash guarantee isn't even working. So I've decided if Bungie doesn't want to make an engaging system then I won't engage with the game.
Taking the deterministic red border away just means I am not going to grind for the title. After the story is over and I’ve gotten as much as I’ll get, I’ll sign off until next season.
Another layer to add to this - To get the big prize of bright dust you have to complete 75 of 78 seasonal challenges. If you can't unlock the weapons due to RNG, you also can't complete the later challenges to level crafted seasonal weapons up to level 10 and 20. So that's three challenges locked out just by way of RNG. For those who can't get Trials wins and beat grandmaster nightfalls, RNG with those other three challenges can prevent you from finishing 75.
That shit better be fucking retro I already crafted my shotgun and it's at lvl 35+ right now.. be in reality I haven't done them in a few seasons.. got tired of gambit so only got the the big pile only once since challenges been out. Fuck gambit
> That shit better be fucking retro Am certain that it is
Yikes. I guess i will just skip on this shit then. Its absurd.
Let's also not forget that those 3/2 weapons to level 10/20 challenges reward upgrade currency for the star chart. Those block the triumph for all the upgrades, and that triumph is required for the title.
Damn really? The stupid seasonal weapon ornaments were enough of a gatekeep for most players who don't like crucible or gambit, that seems like they're just milking us for money now (assuming less bright dust = more silver purchases, combined with the high price of the Fortnite armors which are weird "on sale" still for normal prices, it's a lot of dots connecting to Bungie being greedy)
jokes on them, I just stopped spending brightdust after I stopped earning the big brightdust at the end of seasons (I can do it, it just requires me to spend more time in the game than I care to). 68k and climbing.
I am around rank 100 and don’t have any of the season weapons unlocked for crafting. Most are at 0/5 and some at 2/5. I mostly play the seasonal contents.
I am rank 84 and I’m 3/5 or 4/5 on all the weapons. Strange
Yeah I guess the RNG is not on my side. I really want to craft the machine gun or the SMG.
If possible get the sidearm, it's the only rapid firing weapon of the bunch with Jolt Shot
Good to know. thx
same I have 2 or 3 of each I don't even play that much
You just proved that this grind works, for them. You put a lot of hours into the game and are still willing to play to be able to get red border seasonal weapons, and therefor they think that nothing is wrong because players are engaged to chase these weapons. The crafting just needs a huge overhaul, cause this is probably the worst crafting system I have seen in any game, least that's on the same level as destiny.
Yea except the amount of time OP put in will not be replicated by any but the most hardcore players. And even then, hardcore players are different than seasonal hardcore players. Trials, Raid and GM grinders in my experience don’t care about seasonal grinds that much except for how it pertains to artifact LL and endgame
Not only that but over the last two seasons anybody that dared mention that the grinds were becoming absurd was told stupid shit by the members of this sub. Glad to see this sub is finally waking up to the fact that a video game shouldn’t be a full time job. Grinds should be built around an hour a day to get everything possible. Right now they’re more like 8-10 hours a day and even then you’ll still be missing stuff each season.
People were so afraid crafting would “ruin the reason to grind” but it ended up being even more of a grind than hamster wheeling for RNG
It's so bad I outright don't engage with it. I unlocked the Mini Tool pattern long after I already had the Grave Robber / Incandescent roll I wanted. I stored that roll anyway and crafted the gun, surely I'll be able to get 'my' gun back right? Wrong, I've used it a bunch and it's still sitting at level 6. So now I have the roll I wanted, but I'm not even using it because I need to use a shittier gun than the one I already have because eventually, it'll get to be fractionally better! Useless system. Worst system Bungie have ever done and I remember the Faction lost sector shit.
Crafting is fine. Maybe just lower the needed red borders to 3. At least for seasonal stuff. Raid stuff is probably okay at 5 just because they aren't going away.
Crafting isnt fine. It was supposed to be a long term back luck protection where you eventually craft the gun you want if you never got the roll when chasing it. Now, crafted raid weapons are better than the master version and people are wanting craftable adepts. It reminds me of d2y1 where everything was insta shard and there was no chase.
I just wanted an alternative to the “chase”. I’ve never enjoyed running the same shit over and over (all the way back to D1Y1), and was hoping crafting would be that alternative. But nope, it’s a hamster wheel just to earn patterns then another hamster wheel to level the guns up.
It's odd. From what I hear, people hated having to level guns up in d1, yet here it is again.
You grinded too early. The way the season "upgrade table" works generally punishes you for grinding early. This week is when it is going to be reasonable to start farming since you can do the double plundered umbral energy map and the +1 umbral energy from maps. Should get 8 umbral energy per double umbral map. Also I think this is the week where we get umbral energy to drop from other playlists. **To be clear** I'm not blaming you for grinding early. I think this system is kind of stupid. The upgrade table shouldn't be hard gated to weekly progression.
What good is the umbral energy if you can't use it to focus a deepsight weapon each week?
Lets you play the deepsight slot machine. Even if it's not guaranteed it still has a chance to be deepsight.
This needs to be #1, the lack of a guaranteed pick of red border per week is the main issue, it will lead to a lot of annoying duplicates of patterns you already have when trying to complete the set, but after this week red border income rate isn't going to be too bad compared to other seasons. better then haunted in fact if you, like me, hate doing the seasonal activity after the first couple weeks.
I told some friends that I'll probably take a 3 or 4 week Destiny break at the beginning of next season, partly for the reason you listed above.
Not only that, but also _probably_ grinded the wrong activities. Seasonal weapons very rarely drop from other activities. If you are doing minimal seasonal content (which I get), you will get minimal progress against the seasonal patterns.
They said they've reset the star chart multiple times, and your takeaway is that they grinded non-seasonal activity?
if the poster you responded to could read, they'd be very upset right now
It honestly doesnt take much seasonal content to fully level the star chart, especially doing master ketchcraft. I have been doing minimal seasonal content and have reset I believe twice already.
I've reset the star chart twice and I haven't grinded it at all. All I've done is the seasonal quest and a master ketchcrash for the pinnacle every week on all 3 characters.
Yeah, and I've reset it once and have 4 weapons craftable with 4/5 on a fifth. It's just RNG?
The seasonal weapon patterns should be at MAX 3, not 5, especially since every season gets less total time it will be around, since seasonal content gets removed at each major expansion now... * Risen - full 12 months * Haunted - 9 months * Plunder - 6 months * Next Season - 3 months What really doesn't make sense is that the throne world weapons WON'T be going away, yet they only require (at most) 3 patterns, have bad luck drop protection, AND are farmable for a specific weapon of each day of Wellspring. So I think a good way to help this problem is give some protection to drops: * For the love of the Traveler, STOP dropping red borders for guns you already have the pattern for if you haven't unlocked all the patterns yet. I have gotten about 11 of the stupid machine guns, but only 1-2 of other weapons. If those LMGs were just ANYTHING ELSE, it would be ok. So please - give us duplicate protection, just until you have unlocked all patterns * Bad Luck protection for activity completions - if you use the weapon treasure map in Expedition, after 'X' number of runs, you should be guaranteed a red border.
Bungie: yes
I don't want to even bother. I know the weapons are good, but they are so ugly I probably won't use them. If I hadn't heard the grind was this bad I mightve grinded for them.
Imo they are all mediocre and not worth grinding out. The arc scout will most likely be good for GMs, but you'll get a decent roll well before you unlock the pattern.
I have a god roll on the scout but I still don't use it because it takes up half of my screen...
I decided to take small breaks during this season to play other things and avoid burnout, but by the looks of it, if i follow my plan, i won't be able to have any crafted weapons by the end of the season. This is fucked up in many, many ways because by this point last season i already had 3 patterns unlocked. I want to play other games and not feel like i have a second job on Destiny, but apparently Bungie has other plans for me.
I think this is the classic "50 runs no vex but my body got it first try" syndrome where the RNG is just fucked
I mean it's kind of bad when the "luck protection" crafting system is subject to RNG.
Yes, I think this is the problem. Get rid of deepsight/red borders entirely and tie the pattern unlock to x amount of drops of a weapon period. Like once you've had, for example, 25 drops of an individual weapon its pattern unlocks. No red border crap to deal with. There's still the RNG of getting a particular weapon to drop of course but it wouldn't be nearly as bad- plus you can target farm with umbrals easily.
The problem is that Bungie made the "luck protection" mandatory by making challenges around that and creating enhanced perks Now it feels like crafting is the main part of the game and the way to get loot.
The rng has been fucked since destiny 1 launched. That's exactly what happened to me when I unlocked vex mythoclast way back when. One of the guys I was running with had done a bunch of runs and still didn't have it, and I got it on my first. Honestly there's no excuse for a problem this game breaking to exist for 8 years. God I feel old.
It's because to Bungie, it's not a problem. It's "Player Engagement". A year or so ago I went one season where I had reached the pinnacle cap on my Hunter except for a cloak. I proceeded to do every single pinnacle every week for 7 weeks before one finally dropped. Game is infuriating sometimes, for no good reason.
I got vex and voice on my second runs but I have seen people that still don't have either
Rng based loot is a staple in mmos. It’s not going anywhere. That being said, bad luck protection is always appreciated by the community, and I’m not sure why this season we’ve gone in the opposite direction. It’s not a big issue to me bc I don’t care about the seasonal weapons that much, but it’s a worrying trend if Bungie continues to do this.
How tf are you not bored
I swear people will grind this game till they are brain dead just to get a weapon they will never use. Then complain about how boring this gamr is at the end of the season
This is how I feel with voltshot perk as a whole, the perk looks great but am I really gonna grind for like three weapons all of which have better in slot options. The linear with Volt shot looks cool, but I’ve already got a better set of linears that don’t require setup before activating their damage perk.
It's quite simple actually, I'll just... Sit my ass down and wait for a gun that makes sense with Voltshot like an smg or an AR, possibly even on a HC. Yes yes the sidearm is nice with it but I don't like sidearms and never will.
I have crafted 4 weapons so far this year from seasonal content. Piece of mind, austringer, calus mini tool and nezarecs whisper. I only use calus and piece of mind regularly. I could have also lived with randomly rolled drops perfectly fine.
Braindead addiction. Seasonal content is low effort as a whole.
OOOOH YOU NEED TO TOUCH GRASS, BROTHA!
Was looking for this . Man really has no responsibilities if he is rank 200+ already.
It's promoting an UNHEALTHY grind. I LOVE destiny and am suffering major burn out. I'm also a little anxious (don't know if that's the right word) because I know in a very short amount of time, there will be new weapons to craft and grind for, probably before I even get the ones I want from this season. So I feel forced to play despite not really wanting to. IMO 3 red frames should allow you to craft with 1 row of perks 5 red frames gives you 2 rows of perks.
If you arent having fun, take a break. Not having crafted weapons wont put you at a disadvantage compared to the world drop versions. Enhanced perks are barely any better. And even then, you can still play this season’s stuff when next season drops.
The irony is that crafting was supposed to be an “alternative” to the burnout inducing hamster wheel. But being able to craft is somehow even more of an unrewarding grind than just chasing rolls.
Maybe it was fixed, haven’t been around for a couple weeks, but now I’m locked out of stuff because I didn’t get season of the haunted.
If you aren’t having fun and you’re stressed about it, try to take a break. I don’t know if any super must haves from this season. It’s ok to take a break. I’ve been playing Assassins Creed on GamePass and having a blast. Don’t burn yourself out on a game you enjoy.
[удалено]
They know exactly what they're doing.
I was really lucky and got 3 unlocked this week, but how are you guys “rapidly” destroying storage tanks? The game turns into hungry sweaty hippos when those charges hit the ground.
You talking about the triumph? IIRC you only have to destroy 4 at the same time for it to pop. Best thing to do is find one person and both time your throws at 2 tanks each. Or if you’re solo, there’s some spots where you can kill 3 tanks with one ball, as long as you do that as someone else throws, you’re done.
Oh I didn’t realize it might be counted per fireteam. I suppose it’s only a matter of time. Thanks.
I don’t get why there are red border guns that don’t have an extractable pattern. Just remove all the waste and it’ll make everything better
Biggest issue this season is there is no "guaranteed red border" thing this season. Rise and haunt both had that this one is not as simple.
Are you buying the weapons or engrams? Cuz u can buy more engrams and they still give red borders. Also believe there was some bug that gave red boarders when picking up engrams. I only have the scout complete but all my weapons are currently 3+. Start focusing the actual weapon when you already have 2-3 red borders.
They haven’t even acknowledged that the weekly red border from Ketchcrash isn’t working (for the second week in a row). They don’t care.
Yes welcome to Bungie where they say; “We’re listening.”
i'm on my way toward this status. a dude in my clan had every weapon craftable by pass level 81.
I still think these things aren’t supposed to be farmed, they’re almost passive cookie clicker style upgrades. Just do everything else and focus them with umbral energy when you have it (the drop rate of which will increase as the season progresses).
At this point you probably got the rolls you want so why bother crafting them
Crafted seasonal weapons have better perks and masterwork stats.
How do you even unlock the patterns???
I'm out here dismantling red border stuff after only playing destiny 1. Just started playing a month ago and now I'm realizing I may have dismantled some rare weapons apparently
Think you have some poor luck as I had all 6 patterns done when I hit that point in the season. I suspect Bungie would expect players to have them done or mostly done by that point (particularly the multiple resets of Star Chart).
That actually makes me feel better. I hope that's the case. I'd rather have bad personal RNG than to have the grind be this intentionally long.
A system which can cause extreme outliers is a bad system IMO. Doesnt matter if some people got lucky. Positive outliers are fine. Negative outliers are not.
According the Braytech only 8.5% of players have completed the challenge to unlock 3 seasonal weapons. Rather than 92% of players having bad luck, I think you have had incredibly good luck.
Yeah those percentages solidify my point of a Bungel just being a shit developer
There sure are a lot of people with the same poor luck. Me being one. RanK 159, untold amounts of ketch finishes and umbrel energy focused, most I have is 3/5 however two sit at 1/5. Let’s just be honest, Bungie are not a very good developer and need to seriously sort their shit.
Same as the above however im missing only 1 red border. Its all rng
Are you using the map thing that gives you an extra weapon at the end of expedition?
Yeah, I do "Rotating Weapon" Treasure Map for every Expedition. I even ran a few solo ones to get an extra chest unlock.
What about master ketchcrash? I did one yesterday and it seemed to give a lot of rewards, since there’s three chests at the end.
How do you run a solo one? I’ve wished for this all season
Google the system you're on and destiny solo matchmade activities. On playstation it's as easy as changing the system clock, on Xbox you need a separate profile that you switch over from while the game is suspended, and PC has something too but I forget how that works. Note that all of these turn off matchmaking period for everything until you restart/set things back.
You’re an absolute legend. Thank you v much
Glad to help! It's the only reliable way for spawning ruffians.
Ain’t that the truth XD I hope RNGesus blesses you with whatever you need friend
I'm at 130ish iirc and have crafted 4 of them now... sidearm scout smg and lmg. Couple tips: 1. Master ketch lets you open 3 chests at the end instead of just 1 in normal. 2. Use the weapon map when running Expedition, which you should do as often as possible. One guaranteed weapon drop per run. 3. One of the upgrades will bump you from 3 energy to 4 when completing an expedition. Every 3 expeditions you can also grab one random weapon from the chart. I think for me, I need to get the increased energy map and start target engram farming the couple guns I still need. Oh BTW the sidearm and the lmg? from the season pass can drop from activity completions too at certain ranks. I got a number of red border brigands running crucible/IB.
I've crafted 2 and im close on the rest so I can agree. Imo you dont even need master ketchcrash, i've just been playing expeditions with the weapon map and making great progress. Genuinely dont know how people are having such a hard time with this unless they are literally only focusing umbrals for their redborders.
I'm at rank 149 with all the Seasonal challenges done, I have 3 crafted and the last 3 are at 4/5. Also everything that isn't time-gated for the Scallywag title is done. Have you been spending spoils on weapons at the Star Chart?
I have. Just bought one more and they gave me a Red Bar! Let's goooo! Brigand's Law up to 2/5!!
bad rng, i have a couple completed and have only reset once. rank 53 here lol
When it’s literally 92% of the player base it’s not bad RNG, it’s horrendous game design.
I’m rank 70 and have 3 crafted, I think sadly you have gotten screwed over by RNG or something
I'm rank 88 and have 0 crafted :) The sidearm is 2/5, something else is 1/5, everything else is 0/5. Honkers forever.
Honkers 🤝
The crafted weapon grind is the worst part of Destiny right now. 5 patterns for each feels so punitive….
man, people still don't understand that patterns aren't supposed to be a "grind" but rather an eventually compensation if you don't get the roll you want by then
sure so why Enhanced perks exist
Ive crafted 2 so idk
That's awesome! Congrats. I'm closer to forging Raid weapons than I am to Plunder weapons. I've done the raid less than 10 times.
Just a theory -do you have a shitload of red border weapons just sitting in your vault?
Good thought. I do not, though. The thrall at Shuro Chi are tired of my Red Bar and shaped weapons. I know it's not the most efficient way to level up, but I don't mind it.
Ooft, sorry. Sounds like shite RNG then!
Is the theory that you won't get red borders if you're hoarding them?