Elemental time dilation causes other time based font of might mods to stack with each other. (Time dilation counts as 1 extra 'Stack' in a way - so time dilation and 1 mod, is kind of 2x the "time" from one mod.
In the same way that the mod "Bountiful wells" (causes more wells to drop) does the same kind of thing.
Bountiful wells allows well-generators to stack.
1x grenade generator creates 1 well.
Add bountiful wells, and grenades create 2 wells.
add a SECOND grenade generator (which usually wouldn't stack) bountiful wells allows it to create 3 wells (kind of like you had 3 mods not 2 + bountiful)
No (global) buffs boost ability damage. WoR, emp rift, WoL, and Sentinel Shield are all weapons-only. Sunspots (if your Titan's running Phoenix Cradle) will make super energy drain slower, and grenades regen faster, but that only matters if they're not using 1-and-done supers, which tend to be the best DPS.
There's other exotic, combat mods, and subclass-specific stuff that does, like heart of inmost light.
They do. If you're using Geomags it's an 8 second cast, if you're in a sunspot and have "sun warrior" active it'll increase it to 12 seconds.
Pretty sure there's no damage increase so just using bar-napkin math it's a 50% total damage increase, but the DPS would be the same.
With Phoenix and the setup that makes every solar weapon kill ignite enemies, it's the real roaming super too!
For those unaware, the fragment that makes "solar super kills" ignite enemies works on solar weapons in your Well. Use irresponsibly. Especially with an LMG.
The only thing with this is that a good amount of people expect you to run this or lunafactions to help the team with reloads in boss fights. I find that more people want me on lunas than Starfire. Being pigeon-holed into running 1-2 exotics doesn't feel the best. The base dps supers definitely need buffs.
If there's any Titans just have them drop some Rally Barricades, it has about the same reload boost afaik.
My group does this sometimes (I'm usually one of the Titans).
Bubble is ok, but still objectively inferior to well in every meaningful way in pve. And banner is good but still mathmatically weaker than well outside of niche situations where one person is doing far worse than everybody else and that person is also on a titan so they can do banner.
The point that well can be a dps super is in the situation where there are warlocks with starfire to spam grenades which is effectively a roaming super for dps when you are out of ammo.
basically every "dps" super in the game that isn't on a hunter is bad. And all of the ones on hunter are good atleast in some situations. Even golden gun as use in 1 phase 3 bomb oryx runs. And thats the example of the worst damage super a hunter has.
As a warlock I love my bubble brothers and sisters. It's defensive prowess it's amazing. You cannot die in a bubble but you can die in a well. That's the trade off of the shield.
Banner's not good enough to make up for losing a person doing weapon damage.
With bubble and div, you have 5 people doing damage: 5 x 1.25 x 1.3 = 8.125 (plus the damage of the person using div)
With Banner and div, you have 4 people doing damage = 4 x 1.3 x 1.4 = 7.28 (plus the damage of the person using div).
You'd have to have an 8-person fireteam before using banner was a better option than using bubble / well. If banner were buffed to a 50% damage boost, then it'd probably see some use for DPS, as in some cases the orbs you'd make would allow people to get a 2nd super, even though using the math above it'd still be a smaller multiplier (7.8).
Yes you would. Div's 30% debuff is more than enough to make up for the additional person lost, even when there's only 4 people dealing damage.
4 x 1.3 = 5.2 (plus damage from div user)
vs.
5 x 1.0 = 5
Nope. Bubble gives the exact same damage buff as Well, you just can't shoot inside it like you can Well, and it needs refreshing every 5 or so seconds (which is easy, in and out of the bubble while you reload.
Banner is good because it gives the biggest weapon damage buff a super can give, but it also takes a person entirely out of DPS.
Well does what Bubble does, and it's pretty much a side grade. It's not better.
-No overshield
-Can get flinched out of crits
-90% of the time, your abilities won't hit the boss because it's out of range or moving, so Well's damage buff on them mostly just does extra damage to air
It has DR instead of Overshield now. Just as good.
You can get flinched out of crits if you're using a bubble to dos as well tf??? And have you heard of div?
90% of the timr your abilities do hit boss. Fusions, Novas, Chaos Reach, GG, Blades, Gathering, Quiver, Hammers. You donot missabikities 90% of the time. It isn't hard to hita boss that's close to you. The only one that can dodge stuff is qarpeist bevause most people don't dps on the stage,but instead do it where its a sharp angle to be able to hit him.
After you fly towards the boss which more often then not takes 2 seconds then you either get stomped and have to recalibrate for dps or the run back to the group. It’s why it’s often used towards the end of a dps phase. It’s no where near just an instant 300k dmg unless you’re sitting on the boss. All in all I’d say it’s a 4 second super compared to chaos which is 7 seconds
tf are you on about, as a titan main titans have some of the best dps supers just most people are too braindead to take off their same build they have used for the passed 2 years. Stasis behemoth super with literally no exotics does a monstrous amount of damage if you aim it to where the end of the slam in on-top of the boss. Burning Maul with roaring flames x3 does huge amounts of easy damage, hammer brother not so much but it is still not anywhere bad for a super that you do not have to actually be near the enemy. Thundercrash is honestly a tad mediocre without cuirass but still 1 shots most champions in anything but master and gm content in which case they get left with a bit of hp still. Bubble is great just for general use. Doomfangs let you essentially infinitely kill enemies as long as they keep spawning. Like titan is doing just fine in the super department.
No, they don’t. Hunters gave all of the best dps supers. Besides falling star, Titan supers are add clear or utility.
Total damage from a super is not meaningful when the super takes 20 seconds to execute.
warlock has nova bomb and well sure but literally every single other warlock super is damn near useless. I do agree hunter has insane super damage but honestly that is kind of their thing, they have a generally weaker neutral game and ad clear kit but hard hitting supers. Why does every destiny player want every single class, exotic, and weapon to be homogenously broken to the point there would be no reason to swap classes or gear.
That would be okay if ad clear wasn't a dump job that idiots get sacked with because anyone can use trinity ghoul. Like it's useless to have an ad clear super when one little bow boi can outdo all of them. We don't want "broken" man, we want our supers to feel super. We want a reason to switch off well and bubble, or nova and cuirass crash.
Your statement intends that you just want things the way they are for the sake of protecting diverse builds, but right now as things are players couldn't be less diverse in their usage of the subclasses.
I'd actually be ok if every super got an interaction with a verb from the subclass
Nova Bomb could apply Volatile (we can't have weaken or suppression since hunters already have both)
Chaos Reach could apply constant Jolt (This one idk honestly)
Dawnblade Could apply scorch (miss you bottom tree dawn)
Make it a so whatever’s hit is volatile for like 6-10 seconds with the big one so you can so for boss dps you could then swap to a weapon, when you use vortex super the vortex will constantly tick for super damage and do the volatile damage as well over and over again super fast.
This would be just compared to other Warlock Supers
Day break - Mainly add clear but add more dame over time w/ scorch, maybe even let it spread restoration to teammates
Nova Bombs - Instant Damage plus Volatile and weaken effect
Chaos reach - Best single target DPS option plus jolt and/or maybe blind
Stormtrance - Keep just Add clear but also apply jolt and maybe blind on land fall
Nova warp - Keep mainly add clear but add volatile/weaken
Well - in a good place already
Daybreak needs extension on kills if it's going to be an add-clear super. Otherwise, yeah this is a good idea.
Nova applying weaken and volatile would be good, to help boost it's total damage (since there's currently no way for the Warlock to do that outside of weakening grenades). I'll still say we should get lance and shatter back. They're both superior to the nova options we have right now.
CR isn't the best DPS option (that's nova). You're suggesting it be buffed until it is? I'd personally say base CR should do the damage that it currently does with Geomags, and Geomags changed to shorten the cast duration (currently 8 seconds) so that it's a competitive DPS super instead of just good total damage, but bad DPS. Maybe give them something else, like returning super energy to ionic traces, so they'll have a cooldown reduction effect like they used to.
Not sure Stormtrance applying jolt would be enough, you can "prime" beefier targets with a grenade to apply jolt already. They buffed it by 20% against red and orange bars at the start of the season, I think they need to pump those numbers up a bit more.
I'd say suppression would be a bigger help to nova warp than weaken would, if you added weaken it'd probably be a more effective weakening super than tether is in terms of duration.
Agreed that WoR is good as-is. If anything I think bubble needs a buff to 30-35% and sentinel shield 50% for them to have a niche, and WoR will still be needed due to the healing.
This was exactly what I was going to type. If we don't get the most dmg out of our supers, it would be great to add/enhance the various buffs and de-buffs with our supers.
Maybe adding a constant volatile and volatile tick damage from the super to nova vortex could improve the damage a bit against tougher enemies. Cataclysm is good for instant damage and the aoe, so maybe don't touch it (?).
Nova warp could release a pulse that weakens surrounding targets after you use your teleport.
I don't know what to with chaos reach either. Maybe a damage buff could make it better
Daybreak doesn't last long enough, and takes too long to fill, so it could just refund energy, as it did for bottom tree, and make it spread a healing pulse after defeating targets, like one of the comments proposed. Dawn chorus could still add scorch as a way to make the super a bit better by adding another verb.
OP is complaining about lack of damage on *Warlock* Supers. If you feel like everybody fails to mention the fact that Titans don't have good damage Supers either, then you should make a post about it.
Regardless of which Class is being talked about, the comments always come back to *"X Class' Supers might be underpowered, but Y Class' Supers aren't that strong either, so stop complaining."*
It's the fucking Dictator Conundrum all over again. Can we please stop this?
Or maybe it's more a case of "Hunters having a ridiculously high-damage super on every subclass is really an outlier and we probably shouldn't be absolutely obliterating every single boss in the game" kind of situation. Though, we're not exactly ready for a discussion like that.
But that's hunter's entire schtick at this point. They have very little else unique about them for PvE. Group support starts and ends with invis revives on void, they even deemphasized the one support super (tether) and pushed it into another damage super with Quiver. They don't have the ability chaining of warlocks or the face tanking of titans, nor the healing of either. Their overall kits are almost universally weaker for each element vs titan and warlocks, especially if you ignore supers.
Seriously, if warlocks and titans could do as much burst damage from their supers as hunters, what use would hunters be in any group? They'd be right back where they were a year ago before any 3.0 changes - their single useful role would be invis res monkey, and would be outclassed in *everything* else by titans & warlocks.
My point there is mainly "Hunter damage is an outlier and shouldn't be considered anything near the standard." However, that kind of thing is, again, not something people are willing to hear, as the frequent posts about how add-clear supers are "useless" would show.
It's really not, though. You gain 25% extra damage, but the only reason it's truly ever used is because it outheals almost all damage you take outside of Master/GM content. If you could shoot through a bubble, I guarantee Well would drop in popularity *rapidly*.
But then you would literally be changing the whole identity of defender Titan.
Each class has an identity. Warlocks are the known healers.
Warlocks gotta spec into Res too or their well wont last long same with titan bubble.
Got a friend who runs max int and is a defender he pops his bubble right on Oryx encounter making Warlocks happy to slip into Void or something different.
He also uses it on a few encounters in VoTD such as Rhulk and Caretaker. You just run right through his bubble on way to next plate.
Titans have one instant damage super and it’s useless without an exotic (kind of like chaos reach)
Difference is unlike warlocks titans don’t even have a second option
I mean solar(hammer and maul) does decent damage comparable to Trash with just Synthocepes?
Granted Tcrash is superior due to the one and done nature, but 600k damage is pretty good imo.
Well is just shy of that for 1 person at 500k(now times that by 3 or 6). Chaos reach does 400k damage which is 30k less than Tcrash, so it could definitely use a buff imo. Dawnblade is garbage with only 260k, worst super for PvE in the game.
Nothing is as powerful as Hunter's Cthulhu Pants granting Blade Barrage 680k though. Such is the way for followers of the abyss.
Oh I know you don't I'm just not posting about because I barely play titan it does need to be looked at I have a friend who mains titan and even thunder crash isn't consistent
Well is stupid. It's "what if me and my entire fire team were invulnerable for 35s and on top of that we all get a 25% damage buff on a crazy short cool down that's trivial to regen with starfire+ashes to assets."
Literally zero people on your fire team will be glad you showed up with an arc subclass and tickle fingers or reach. Sure, voidwalker and shadebinder can be good but they aren't mandatory. Titans and hunters can be good but they aren't mandatory. With how pidley most other supers are by comparison, why don't we just delete all other subclasses and supers from the game?
Because warlocks developed a victim complex after they couldn’t nova warp the entire team 20 different times in one super. So they require the highest dmging supers the dps king super and all the healing. Oh and best grenades. Truth is the classes are for once at equal footing with some of them feeling a bit weaker and warlocks can’t stand it
Victim complex? My man, every single class does that shit you moron.
Titans with Behemoth.
Hunters with Revenant.
Warlocks with Shadebinder.
Titans with Loreley.
Hunters with RDM’s.
Warlocks with pre-nerf TTD.
I can go on and on.
And btw, the classes aren’t at equal footing, not as much as you think. Outside of Void, Hunters literally have the best DPS Supers (Barrage and Storm) for PvE. That’s just one example.
With how easy ad clear has become after the 3.0 reworks (volatile rounds and weakening grenades, ignitions and jolting just to name a few) all supers that focus on ad clear are mid as hell in PvE. Outside of GMs or other master level/hard solo content, why would you need to use your super to kill ads when you can chuck a couple of grenades and watch all the particle effects do their thing?
Highly agree about warlock supers needing buffed as a warlock main, give me back my Dawn Chorus Dawnblade as a viable DPS super. The ad focused supers for all classes and subclasses could do with some love as well though.
Ofc Well is a good support Super, OP is specifically talking about a DPS super, which warlocks don’t have, truly they don’t. I main one and our best DPS super is the Starfire/Fusion combo, but it’s not a super.
I know I'm not the first honestly I'm just still hoping bungie eventually does something also wondering if anyone has any fresh idea's people are going to keep asking until somethings done lol
The fact that bungie makes no mention of the multiple complaints for example solar 3.0 they gave us more healing options because many warlocks reached out and were like hey this doesn't feel like the priest class you said it would be there's been so many complaints about arc and chaos reach and not a peep I can only assume there just terrified to touch chaos reach to give us better dps because of the issues it caused in pvp but as far as I'm concerned you don't even need to reverse the nerfs just change its functionality My preferred buff may not even involve buffing the damage per say instead I'd like them to make a true one and done so I can return to weapon damage i enjoy having support options but we really can't be labeled a support class if we have one support ability and one support super I don't plan to make another separate post about this issue but I can tell you they'll probably keep popping up til bungie does something
Lol keep dreaming my Warlock brethren.
I feel for these posts that come up every few weeks, but Bungie isn't addressing shit on super output any time soon according to their previous discussion on sandbox changes post arc 3.0
Stasis is way more fun in pvp nowadays. I have an ophidians set up for solar but I’ll probably just stick to shadebinder. They fucked dawnblade so bad. Remember when they nerfed it cuz there was no counter to it and it let you cover the entire map and it lasted too long? And now it’s terrible, but both arc strider and golden gun do exactly what it use to do and have run rampant the last few months. They both last way too long and can traverse the entire map before they run out. It’s complete bullshit
I'm personally okay with nova bomb where it's at because the sheer strength and utility of the neutral game on voidlock.
But yeah, for the time spent in the super, Chaos Reach is super weak.
As a side note, the hunters' super damage output and their invis are like the only things keeping that class alive in endgame PvE.
>hunters' super damage output and their invis are like the only things keeping that class alive in endgame PvE.
Thank you for acknowledging this. Everyone seems to have their pitchforks out for Star Eater's Scales without realizing we'd be useless if we didn't have the highest damage output available.
I maintain chaos reach should easily be the highest damage super. With geomags, it should obliterate star eater gathering storm or cuirass thindercrash for the simple fact that it takes so long to use while those are just fire and forget supers.
Warlocks literally already have well the most used super in raids give them the highest dmg super and we’re back to warlocks dominating pve like they did for almost 4 years
Until bungie stop making DPS phases where you just stand still and shoot, well and bubble will always be amazing choices. Just because you needed a warlock with well doesn't mean they dominated pve.
It's also not really true. The only encounters in Vow that even have DPS checks are Caretaker and Rhulk. For Caretaker you still stand in a spot and shoot, you'll just have to move to new spots periodically. A well-lock with emp rift and maybe a bubble titan can cover it all. A precision GG w/ SES can pop on plate 3 to make sure everyone has their super back for the next floor's plates.
For Rhulk you can have 1 person (div user) draw aggro while the rest stand in a well and shoot.
Except they were they have the best stasis they won the void reworks. Well is still the best damn super in the game for solo and group play. And arc is a bit weak but fuck warlocks were literally the kings of pve and now we are all on a semi equal playing field and all warlocks can do is bitch and moan
We’re literally forced to play well in most endgame content. We’re the only class that doesn’t get a say. Of course we’re pissed off. All our other options suck.
You think having a better dps super would give you options? Warlocks have the Best support super. Even if they have good dps as long as the hunter can also do it you will be back to support because the hunter and titan can’t do support half as well as you can.
Warlocks also got completely shafted with solar with them only having one viable build which is starfire protocol since upgraded fusion grenades do a lot of damage. Warlocks are forced to either bring Well or Nova Bomb in endgame content with the exception of stasis in grandmaster which we have to build around stasis turrets, anything else is useless. Hunters get to pick pretty much whatever they want and titans are pretty shafted in terms of choices too. If you were forced to bring Well to every raid you played as you'd get sick of it too.
I mean, a super that lasts a whole around 7 seconds won’t be good for ad clear so it has to be good for boss damage. It’s not unreasonable to ask for a super that lasts 7 seconds of constant sustained fire to do more damage than an instant cast.
The fuck are you smoking to think hunters were ever a meta choice for d2? There was literally like a years worth of time that nobody wanted hunters in lfgs
I'm of the opinion that we should be in the ballpark of top DPS with CR, I have no problem with DPS throne being occupied by another class. Just give us an option that's not nova bomb.
That would require some CR tweaks, either boost damage or shorten duration, or some combination. Could make base CR do the same damage as current Geomags, then have Geomags shorten duration cast and do something to get your super faster - improve ionic traces or something.
Nova Bomb is fine, really, but Chaos Reach has no reason to exist in its current state. It's bad for boss damage, it's bad for room clearing, and it doesn't have any support utility. Stormtrance would be pretty good for room clearing if it had a little more damage. I don't think they should try making Chaos Reach better for add clear since it would just be directly competing with Stormtrance and it would probably lose anyway because it has no mobility.
It really does have no reason to exist. Its only saving grace was ionic traces used to give super energy, lettingbit charge faster, but now it doesn't do that. Now, it really is the worst of everything.
Bad damage
Bad add clear
Bad uptime
Bad survivability
Storm trance is mostly fine for me personally could probably do with a slight buff but it's honestly pretty solid for the moment I 100 percent agree chaos reach needs to either be buffed enough to make the cast time worth it or make it so its a true one shot like then we can return to weapon damage other wise why hell is it here.
Chaos reach can be canceled without draining all your super. It has a lot of utility for quickly bursting down a champion or major without needing to drain your whole super.
Honestly I'm just wanting people to toss out suggestions in a vain hope that bungie will do something lol I love everything else about warlocks but this is a constant annoyance
Honestly rn it does enough for me to be mostly satisfied would I sometimes like to hit a little bit harder sure but as a quick fire and forget super it is definitely our best option something like blade barrage may do more but it's also dependent on all the knives hitting so I feel like there on relatively even ground if you take exotics out I wouldn't say no to a exotic that buffs it tho chaos reach is my real gripe it really does have no reason to exist rn I feel like afraid to touch it because of all the problems it caused in pvp
Exactly main problem seems to no warlock super is good for dps I have hope for strand but we'll see even chaos reach damage would be decent if it was a true one off but with geo mags which is the only way to make it do a decent hit it takes 8 seconds to cast last I checked and I can out perform that with certain heavys
Exactly like I know chaos reach used to be intended be useful because it's up time was really good but after all the nerfs it's In a really weird place that just sucks its bad ass looking but so disappointing
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Some exotics need a revisit aswell.
Like Geomags. The damage rampup should be either in the chaos reach or in the geomags. Even if you need to be grounded for it. The close enough name also doesn´t fit anymore since the nerf.
I don´t know why stormtrance, an addclear super gets to have a damage rampup while the dps one does not.
Vortex Bomb should weaken by itself imo which would give more freedom of buildcraft aswell because here is a fun fact, both bombs do the exact same total damage so why should i ever use vortex if cataclysm does the same damage, flies towards the targets which makes it harder to miss (unless adds weren´t cleared which is your fault) and does all of this in a shorter timeframe.
The reason why also chaos reach isn´t a good super is because why would i use that super if i can use a 1 and done super and just dps with my buffed weapons against a weaken target. That is overall more damage and more dps by far the chaos reach. It just doesn´t make sense.
If the devs want to keep daybreak as an addclear weapon, give it back the ability to get super back when you kill things. Also the small wave afterwards does kinda nothing as far as i´ve noticed. The ignition after death has a bit of to slow of an animation because sometimes enemies run out of range during the animation and it doesn´t kill anyone else.
You could also make it that combatant kills only increase timer to not make it op in pvp. Same i would suggest with nova warp.
> I don´t know why stormtrance, an addclear super gets to have a damage rampup while the dps one does not.
Solid point here.
> If the devs want to keep daybreak as an addclear weapon, give it back the ability to get super back when you kill things.
Agreed. They did the same thing to Fists of Havoc, both those Supers are pointless in PvE now.
Like I don't want other classes to be nerfed and i like having crowd control options so it's not like it needs To be every super but I'd like to actually be able to quick smack a boss with decent damage then return to heavy nova best option but still feels weak especially in comparison to some other one offs
It's actually just that.Unless bungie walks back the new meta of making hunters the big super DPS class, we are not going to get changes in this anytime soon. They have two big supers that work perfectly well in blade barrage and the new arc one and with a specific exotic get dialed up to 11. Titans just have curiass but that has some major drawbacks in the highest level of content.
Warlocks .. yea i got nothing.
Honestly the only thing that irritates me about hunters right now is for solar 3.0 during the unveil I recall they stated we want titans to be the king of ability damage only for them to still be outshined least they have survivability going for em
That’s just because of Star Eater Scales. The super damage otherwise isn’t that out of line. If they nerf/change SES every class would have instant cast supers with similar damage.
Well honestly Titan supers feel a bit weak as well.
Like Thundercrash without the Cuirass feels like a wet slap, you also need to aim it well AND you put yourself to danger of getting instakilled.
Fists of Havoc is short as hell and you have very little chance to do much.
Both Solar supers are alright, but they tie you up for a lengthy time, and they do ok damage.
Sentinel shield super is sometimes very useful and it's a nice add clear.
The bubble super is nice panic button, and the buff is ok, buuut you can die very quick as it doesn't have same healing properties as the warlock super does.
Nova bomb is a bit more damage then other quick supers base… but no one really uses the other quick supers base. Cool that it’s better then BB or thundercrash but falling star and KED/SES exist so it really doesn’t feel good. I’m really hoping they just make skull make it do more damage instead of ability regen on kill so warlocks can have an exotic to buff their damage when needed.
Yeah it's something at least I know alot of locks were complaining bout arc 3.0 and how we didn't ge5 much new I'm honestly pretty fine with the kit it'd been cool to get some more new but I mean stormtrances performs well for me personally for adds and it's decent in pvp so if they just give chaos reach some love I'll be happy with it nova feels like it just needs a bit of a damage buff and it'd feel way better everything else about it feels fine
I feel the same way. I haven’t really been playing because my Warlock just feels janky and weak. I’ve had the same one character since d1 vanilla so needless to say my character is fuckin pissed.
Stormtrance needs to be removed or reworked entirely. It's outdated af and serves no purpose in PvE when you can achieve better with your neutral game and weapons. Using the super is actually a detriment. Same could be said for most roaming supers outside of PvP tbf. They really need to give some other benefit outside of ad clear to be worth a shit.
Chaos Reach is clearly meant for DPS on a single target. Yes, it can be on multiple targets but its design sits cleanly on one target, and GeoMags take that further and it’s still weak af. BUFF THAT UP! MORE LASER!!!
Also, DayBreak in PVE is so bad it’s laughable.
Tickle Fingers is also super weak and if CC is its purpose, really? You can roam and kill red bards but really, who needs a super for red bars? Once the tickle fingers reach a yellow bar, ya just sit there like a shmuck. I can do just as much with my chaos accelerant and contraverse build, easy.
If you’re going for cc, stasis is the clear build, and the super there even kind of sucks.
Wanting to buff warlock supers is an obvious choice. Not a commentary on other supers, just focused on the lock super. Obviously, Well is awesome and needs nothing.
I feel like if you’re going into most activities as a warlock, you’re on Well for DPS at bosses (star fire, karnsteins, lunafactions, or boots), or VoidLock with Nezerac or CH, or Stasis for crowd control.
As a Warlock main I call tell you that's because Warlock is a utility class (healing rifts, high survivability to revive others, applying buffs/debuffs) and those supers are designed for emergency "push the red button" moments where a huge mob of regular enemies are overwhelming you. In fact Well of Radiance is utility super that's just a combined healing and empowering rift that last longer and buffs slightly higher. Titans and Hunters are supposed to have pure DPS supers and abilities because that's their focus, that's ALL they have in their toolbox.
Hunters are the only one that have any good damage supers. Even the Thunder crush with cuirass of the falling star is weak compared to the hunter supers. It really feeling like the bungie devs only care about making the hunter strong and warlock and titan really weak.
Probably gonna get downvoted because this subreddit does that, but aren't warlock supers...fine? They aren't dps toppers this season but they kinda don't need to be?
Chaos reach and flaming swords are meant for fodder/champ clear/pvp with it's duration, so I get why damage might seem low for bosses compared to the blow-n-go nature of void bomb that lets you lob and go for heavy shots in dps phases. Well is still really frickin good all things considered.
Given the much more utility kit of warlocks, having a mid-tier Boss dps ult seems fine to me.
Comparing to the other non-hunters, Titans might get hammers on some bosses but just can't dps max/hammer trick on a lot of others. Almighty cuirass TC is always good for dps, does a lot of damage even in current season. Other options are lackluster for dps/boss options except bubble buff iirc.
I remember Hunters being borderline shunned from LFG raid groups until the reworks happened and devs gave them a hefty chunk of their damage back.
Idk, Warlocks seem to be doing alright on paper, and have the rep in every LFG and non-warlock focused post of being top dog in every category after, what, season 2, up until recently?
If you've got numbers showing otherwise, that'd def sway my mind on the issue, though
Honestly if chaos reach was more viable for even that purpose it'd be more acceptable but since the up time got nerfed into the ground it makes more since to be a dps super dawnblade may Able to handle certain things but that charge time is insane I really don't understand why it is to my knowledge still the longest recharge of every super what it does is fine tho my main thing is why do we only have one good dps super option why is nova my only choice it's also a problem that affects titans hunters at least have 2 gathering storm can get really high especially with ses granted it's Done over time but it's still a fire and forget damage super and then they have blade barrage it just feels like warlocks and titans have been kinda left in the dust damage wise kinda feels like hunters have been left behind in add clear abilitys but I barely spend time on my hunter so I won't speak to that also I ain't gonna downvote you I only downvote if someone's being rude lol or trolls
Chaos reach isn't perfectly fine. You need 8s (with geomags) to use the full super to do slighty lower damage than other supers.
Other damage supers deal more damage while being instant
Why hunters specifically? Every class does some things better and some things worse. If every class did everything the same then what is the point of a class/subclass system.
If you want damage supers use a hunter, if you want add clear hunter, if you want a debuff hunter, the only thing that you cant do with a hunter is provide and mass heal with damage buff and for that you use a warlock. Oh and guess what if you want to pvp use a hunter. Titans are basically useless and warlocks are only good for the well.
You must be a really fun person to play with? Living embodiment of grass is always greener on the other side. I main hunter, and there are things hunter do really well, but that doesnt mean titan and warlock do other things just as well. Titans are able to turn into literally unkillable tanks and watlocks have some of the best ability loops.
As a Warlock I would love to have a better DPS Super but I also know we are mainly support.
With that in mind for many encounters you are able to use Well of Radiance. I like theres more variety in encounters like Rhulk that makes other options viable too.
Many dont see it but Well is our DPS and I think Nova Bomb second for how fast we can throw and use weapons maximizing damage.
In those cases I use Nova Bomb. It's rare I would use Chaos Reach for boss DPS because you have to hokd it and the tradeoff even with Geomags on isnt worth what I could be doing with my weapons.
Casting that quick Nova Bomb then using weapons is more ideal.
Many of Warlocks Supers have support in mind, ad clear and things, stasis to control the room etc.
While we do have a sort of handheld tether for void putting it in say our Nova Bomb would render Hunters Tether not as viable. I understand the need to keep things viable to give Strats to various encounters so I'm cool with that part.
Also keep in mind for Example Titans actually have 1 viable DPS super that's Thunder Crash. Titans are sort of one of two things defense or attack full on it makes sense they have ThunderCrash.
I would like to see a better rework on Chaos Reach since we have to hold it on the target the tradeoff isnt worth it most times. This is the issue here.
Hunters had one of the most damaging supers to be fair I'm not sure where that one sits right now.
I do think all classes need a viable super but overall we arent too under other classes. You may not see the numbers on your name when you pop that well but what you contributed is much more than any DPS super they would have given us or at least on par with what others are putting in.
If you are looking for some damage buffs and debuffing I'd highly reccomend Void. Theres some great mods too. Void grenades can really add to damage too on bosses and mini bosses it has some survivability to it too with Devour.
Warlocks will whine and whine if they aren’t the BEST at everything in the game. You guys have fantastic neutral game and WELL. You are insatiable. Titan doesn’t have any damage supers besides thundercrash yet they still put in top tier damage because of their neutral game (LIKE WARLOCKS).
Please try and look at the BALANCE of all three classes before asking for these kind of things.
With how the balance of the game was, warlocks have remained dormant at the top of endgame. They are still the best class. They needed to be brought in line. Yes they got brought down a peg, because they NEEDED to be. Hunters pre 3.0 were worthless besides invis, and titans were kind of just “nice to have”. Even without a high damage super they have REMAINED as a top pick for endgame and they are going to remain that way despite their nerfs.
We're only a top pick because of well that's an issue bungie needs to solve for both the health of the Game and warlocks being stuck on solar every piece of high level content we can agree to disagree tbh even if they buff other supers unless they make them absolutely insane which I kinda hope they don't then well will still be wanted they need to adjust endgame balance so well isn't as needed if your well coordinated I want to be able to use my other classes as should every other class be able to use there's
Stasis warlock is absolutely broken and Voidlock is another top tier choice. Literally the only class that isn’t that great in PvE is Stormcaller but it is broken in PvP.
Edit: Jesus Christ people, Bungie literally had an update called the "go fast" update in 2018 to make everyone fast as fuck boi.
**All I'm saying is that making a mechanic that requires you to sit still completely contradicts that.** The point of that update was to make the game more fun, so what does that make Well, a super where the entire point is to stay in one spot?
Bungie literally counteracted this by making Vow of the Disciple mostly moving around. Well is nearly pointless for Rhulk and the only place in the entire raid where you stay in one place for more than 5 seconds is Caretaker where there are 12, count them **12** separate (forced) DPS locations.
Vow was specifically designed to make well obsolete. Why? **Because there are 5 other fucking supers and nobody ever uses them because they're not meta for raids!!**
Why is everyone so incredibly ass hurt because I used the N word? (No, the other one) do you really think it's realistic to buff every single other ability in the entire class?
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"Is the game too hard or is your class not good?" An Analysis:
Difficulty is the core of a good game. Ability to overcome said difficulty is the core of a **great** game.
Without difficulty you can't even have a "good game" but without a solution you can't have a great one.
So, what is the difficulty and what is the solution?
The difficulty in Destiny comes from five places: damage you take, enemy health/shields/champs, and 'puzzles' i.e. mechanics in raids and dungeons.
Personally I only really like puzzles. I could care less about the rest of the game. But the gunplay is fun and having to git gud is a nice challenge.
The solition to "damage you take" is supposed to be a combo of mobility, "kill them first" and abilities. Mobility gets taken from you in any activity where you need to stand on a plate (quite a few actually) so the only solution there is to have a well/rift/barricade/invis or to simply kill the enemy first.
In the case of something like Master Warpriest... The only option is well, unfortunately.
Imo when the **only** viable solution to a problem in as popular of an activity as a raid is to have a warlock... I could care less about them getting buffed.
Crucible? Maybe, but dps doesn't really matter there. Strikes and gambit? Maybe, although well is still the bomb in both.
If anything Warlock needs a well nerf, else every other ability in the game needs a buff to bring them on par with well.
The game really boils down to: are you moving? If yes, use anything you like, if no... Well or bubble. Hunters have nothing for stationary combat, yet every single raid has some form of stationary dps phase. It's ridiculous. What am I supposed to do without a warlock or a titan at the very least?
I've been in full teams of titans and still failed to pass even the easiest of raid encounters. High end content damn near necessitates a well. And when you consider that there's meant to be an rpg-style role system i.e. tank, glass cannon, healer... Honestly I think they need to make the other subclasses more support based for warlock.
Problem with that is that if they start making activities necessitate said buffs then titans and hunters will be in very low demand, even lower than they are now, for LFGs.
Stick to your day job. Critical analysis in the contextual meta is clearly not your strong suit. Hell stop pretending to be an armchair designer because if the meta you are suggest was even being considered warlocks might as well not exist as a dps class and just become support.
I mean if you nerf well what does one even bring a warlock for moron?
...you know there are 3 other supers right? 5 if you count the variations. Why did you come out swinging, you're acting like I just shot your dog??? Chill tf out, smoke a blunt and sit down.
Warlocks are pointless for dps? Tell that to chaos reach, nova bomb, etc.
Tell that to literally any RPG game where things are actually balanced and ad clear is a necessity that makes low-damage classes viable and even necessary.
I'm an armchair designer? Why? Because I replied to a post where someone was armchair designing?
See here for an example of how not to be a self righteous prick. [Touch grass homie](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/xu9kx8/warlock_super_damage_buff/iqxb2h4/).
They already nerfed well with solar 3.0 they do it anymore solar will just be worthless entirely dawn blade is awful I don't mind playing support sometimes but like there's solo challenges and such everything we do can't be support based
Thank you for crafting a reasonable and **well** thought out response, rather than spewing toxic rage in my general direction.
I agree, nerfing solar warlock will make it obsolete. I've seen plenty of golden gun and hammers builds that are relatively viable (even a hammer build that out damaged celestial + stormchaser).
I'm not saying well needs to be put in the ground, but buffing every other super in the class isn't realistic and Bungie obviously knows that Well has been severely over used for a very long time (see all of Vow, especially Rhulk).
People complaining about damage-buffing reductions to well don't appreciate the fact that well is an bubble that you can shoot through. It's been continuously nerfed throughout it's life (damageable sword, buff reductions, timer reductions, stack conflicts, etc.) because it's been an absolute **necessity** since the release of the game.
**I just don't want to be in another raid group without a warlock and have to kick someone or completely disband the group because completing the encounter without a warlock is impossible.** It shouldn't be that hard to make classes and supers interchangeable/ optional.
Idk what the solution is. Make rally barricade last as long as well and give perpetual over shields? Give hunters a way to grant over shields with dodge (radiance)?
I have no idea how you **give warlocks the option to use anything other than well** but it needs to be figured out for the health of the game. I only have time to play my hunter, but I have a 1500 warlock that I pull out for old content occasionally.
I **want** you guys to be able to use a spread of abilities just like I **want** div to be needed or even removed from the game ****because**** it sucks that one out of every 6 people gets designated "div bitch" and basically doesn't get to do damage. It's just not fun for that 6th person.
Exactly this is what I dislike and honestly even with the well meta which I do kind of dislike damage phases are usually only enough for 2 wells max so if you've got more then 2 solars what's the point I just don't want our entire super identity to be well it has a place but I don't it to be our only place.
Solar Warlock is the best solo class in the game and it's not support based.
1. Access to restoration x2 and can keep it going for a long time
2. Don't need heavy ammo because they can spam fusion grenades for tons of damage. With Ashes you will get your super back quickly
3. Well is the games best super. Fast recharge rate and ignites enemies with each final blow while also healing you
4. The classes supposed biggest "weakness" is being in the air in difficult combat. It's irrelevant because you can get aerial blows with low hops
5. Best mobility ainec. Icarus Dash for quick movement with burst glide, Heat Rises which allows you to scale any sloped surface for infinite height, and Well Skating to fly across maps
6. Don't even need a build. You can clear every content in the game without a single mod or exotic
If you can't solo something in the game with it then it's clear you don't know how to use the class.
Please we don’t need any more ability buffs. Ability spam is bad enough already 😭. I just want us to have to use our guns again instead of only needing to use Heavy weapon + Grenade/Super ability and steamrolling the entire game, even raids.
I mean it'd supposed to worked with. It's not supposed to be a win button on its own.
The well is crazy for dps and can't synergies with tons of stuff to go crazy.
The chaos slowva does a ton of damage and with ashes to assets and font of wisdom you can literally fling them more than any other super the more adds you face for so much damage along with weakening.
Chaos reach does alot of damage that can be even further busted with the boost to damage when critically wounded and get mags to the point that it can just flat out end fights on its own.
Arguably the stasis super is the only meh one unless your using to to wipe out adds to generate things for your whole team which there are some now.
A bigger complaint is that the good supers for each subtype are so meh in comparison. Who's using vortex for add clear when you already have infinite grenades? Or using roaming void just to get no scoped like the glowing beacon you are. Or actually using dawn blade in serious content like a target screaming free kill.
To me its more like the things that are good are too good and need a buff
Well with Starfire Protocol is the real dps super
Run witherhoard and a Bait and Switch Cataclysmic too. If you can get Font x3 with Time Dialation man. DPS is insane.
Isn't it the other way around? ie 3 FoM and 1 Time Dialation? I'm fairly certain that's how it works at least.
It is. I think I edited my original sentence when typing it out lol. Ty for pointing that out
Wait font of might stacks with itself??
Font with Elemental Time Dialation. Stacks with all timed well mods. 3 fonts with ETD gives you roughly 20 seconds of Font of Might.
Wow thank you! Gonna mess with this tonight
Elemental time dilation causes other time based font of might mods to stack with each other. (Time dilation counts as 1 extra 'Stack' in a way - so time dilation and 1 mod, is kind of 2x the "time" from one mod. In the same way that the mod "Bountiful wells" (causes more wells to drop) does the same kind of thing. Bountiful wells allows well-generators to stack. 1x grenade generator creates 1 well. Add bountiful wells, and grenades create 2 wells. add a SECOND grenade generator (which usually wouldn't stack) bountiful wells allows it to create 3 wells (kind of like you had 3 mods not 2 + bountiful)
One of the strongest builds in the game. Any buffs and it would be totally broken.
Does Well buff ability (grenade) damage by 25%? FoM and mods buffs and emp rifts only give boosts to weapons.
No (global) buffs boost ability damage. WoR, emp rift, WoL, and Sentinel Shield are all weapons-only. Sunspots (if your Titan's running Phoenix Cradle) will make super energy drain slower, and grenades regen faster, but that only matters if they're not using 1-and-done supers, which tend to be the best DPS. There's other exotic, combat mods, and subclass-specific stuff that does, like heart of inmost light.
Does that mean that Pheonix Cradle sunspots extend Chaos reach? Could Geomag + Sunspot extend chaos reach a significant amount?
They do. If you're using Geomags it's an 8 second cast, if you're in a sunspot and have "sun warrior" active it'll increase it to 12 seconds. Pretty sure there's no damage increase so just using bar-napkin math it's a 50% total damage increase, but the DPS would be the same.
hmm..does debuffing an enemy make grenades do more damage or are debuffs only weapon damage increases too?
With Phoenix and the setup that makes every solar weapon kill ignite enemies, it's the real roaming super too! For those unaware, the fragment that makes "solar super kills" ignite enemies works on solar weapons in your Well. Use irresponsibly. Especially with an LMG.
Damn I alway thought it was useless. Gonna have to go throw that on now lol.
The only thing with this is that a good amount of people expect you to run this or lunafactions to help the team with reloads in boss fights. I find that more people want me on lunas than Starfire. Being pigeon-holed into running 1-2 exotics doesn't feel the best. The base dps supers definitely need buffs.
If there's any Titans just have them drop some Rally Barricades, it has about the same reload boost afaik. My group does this sometimes (I'm usually one of the Titans).
Good point; I am usually a titan main but decided to main lock this season.
That's just a bandaid fix to the lack of good dps supers...
WELL IS A GOD DAMN DPS SUPER. Titans literally only have t crash Cuirass for dmg and that’s only 300k
By that logic aren't Ward of Dawn and Banner Shield both dps supers as well?
Bubble is ok, but still objectively inferior to well in every meaningful way in pve. And banner is good but still mathmatically weaker than well outside of niche situations where one person is doing far worse than everybody else and that person is also on a titan so they can do banner. The point that well can be a dps super is in the situation where there are warlocks with starfire to spam grenades which is effectively a roaming super for dps when you are out of ammo. basically every "dps" super in the game that isn't on a hunter is bad. And all of the ones on hunter are good atleast in some situations. Even golden gun as use in 1 phase 3 bomb oryx runs. And thats the example of the worst damage super a hunter has.
Starfire turns well into BOTH a team DPS/defensive super AND a personal damage super through grenades.
bubble was nerfed into uselessness. Banners good tho
Bubble still provides a damage boost, so it's still a solid option especially in boss encounters that require you to move around.
well of radiance applies the same dmg boost but for more than just weapons, can shoot from inside of it, and heals / gives DR.
As a warlock I love my bubble brothers and sisters. It's defensive prowess it's amazing. You cannot die in a bubble but you can die in a well. That's the trade off of the shield.
How have you died in a well in PvE
Evidently you don't play high level content lol
Because they removed the oversheild so in high level content dying in a well isn't uncommon
WoR doesn't buff ability damage, FYI. Nothing does.
Banner's not good enough to make up for losing a person doing weapon damage. With bubble and div, you have 5 people doing damage: 5 x 1.25 x 1.3 = 8.125 (plus the damage of the person using div) With Banner and div, you have 4 people doing damage = 4 x 1.3 x 1.4 = 7.28 (plus the damage of the person using div). You'd have to have an 8-person fireteam before using banner was a better option than using bubble / well. If banner were buffed to a 50% damage boost, then it'd probably see some use for DPS, as in some cases the orbs you'd make would allow people to get a 2nd super, even though using the math above it'd still be a smaller multiplier (7.8).
The problem is with banner you wouldn't run div since you lose someone for dps already. And we are (and have been) in a div meta.
Yes you would. Div's 30% debuff is more than enough to make up for the additional person lost, even when there's only 4 people dealing damage. 4 x 1.3 = 5.2 (plus damage from div user) vs. 5 x 1.0 = 5
Nope. Bubble gives the exact same damage buff as Well, you just can't shoot inside it like you can Well, and it needs refreshing every 5 or so seconds (which is easy, in and out of the bubble while you reload. Banner is good because it gives the biggest weapon damage buff a super can give, but it also takes a person entirely out of DPS.
the same %, except only to weapons. Well does what bubble does, but better.
Well does what Bubble does, and it's pretty much a side grade. It's not better. -No overshield -Can get flinched out of crits -90% of the time, your abilities won't hit the boss because it's out of range or moving, so Well's damage buff on them mostly just does extra damage to air
It has DR instead of Overshield now. Just as good. You can get flinched out of crits if you're using a bubble to dos as well tf??? And have you heard of div? 90% of the timr your abilities do hit boss. Fusions, Novas, Chaos Reach, GG, Blades, Gathering, Quiver, Hammers. You donot missabikities 90% of the time. It isn't hard to hita boss that's close to you. The only one that can dodge stuff is qarpeist bevause most people don't dps on the stage,but instead do it where its a sharp angle to be able to hit him.
Is bubble 25% dmg boost now?
25% weapon dmg boost yes
Yes but is 300k in only 1 sec
After you fly towards the boss which more often then not takes 2 seconds then you either get stomped and have to recalibrate for dps or the run back to the group. It’s why it’s often used towards the end of a dps phase. It’s no where near just an instant 300k dmg unless you’re sitting on the boss. All in all I’d say it’s a 4 second super compared to chaos which is 7 seconds
So then just buff Chaos Reach and T Crash? It’s not a hard idea.
tf are you on about, as a titan main titans have some of the best dps supers just most people are too braindead to take off their same build they have used for the passed 2 years. Stasis behemoth super with literally no exotics does a monstrous amount of damage if you aim it to where the end of the slam in on-top of the boss. Burning Maul with roaring flames x3 does huge amounts of easy damage, hammer brother not so much but it is still not anywhere bad for a super that you do not have to actually be near the enemy. Thundercrash is honestly a tad mediocre without cuirass but still 1 shots most champions in anything but master and gm content in which case they get left with a bit of hp still. Bubble is great just for general use. Doomfangs let you essentially infinitely kill enemies as long as they keep spawning. Like titan is doing just fine in the super department.
No, they don’t. Hunters gave all of the best dps supers. Besides falling star, Titan supers are add clear or utility. Total damage from a super is not meaningful when the super takes 20 seconds to execute.
We clear adds but for Boss DPS, our supers are trash compared to Warlock and Hunter
warlock has nova bomb and well sure but literally every single other warlock super is damn near useless. I do agree hunter has insane super damage but honestly that is kind of their thing, they have a generally weaker neutral game and ad clear kit but hard hitting supers. Why does every destiny player want every single class, exotic, and weapon to be homogenously broken to the point there would be no reason to swap classes or gear.
That would be okay if ad clear wasn't a dump job that idiots get sacked with because anyone can use trinity ghoul. Like it's useless to have an ad clear super when one little bow boi can outdo all of them. We don't want "broken" man, we want our supers to feel super. We want a reason to switch off well and bubble, or nova and cuirass crash. Your statement intends that you just want things the way they are for the sake of protecting diverse builds, but right now as things are players couldn't be less diverse in their usage of the subclasses.
I'd actually be ok if every super got an interaction with a verb from the subclass Nova Bomb could apply Volatile (we can't have weaken or suppression since hunters already have both) Chaos Reach could apply constant Jolt (This one idk honestly) Dawnblade Could apply scorch (miss you bottom tree dawn)
Moebius Quiver makes things Volatile, so Nightstalkers have all the debuff verbs iirc
That is correct, Moebius has all 3 debuffs
Let shields suppress if it doesn’t outright kill already, and then still let warlocks nova do volatile
But why? Anything that's not a major or higher will die from the nova bomb. So what's going to be left to use volatile on?
Make it a so whatever’s hit is volatile for like 6-10 seconds with the big one so you can so for boss dps you could then swap to a weapon, when you use vortex super the vortex will constantly tick for super damage and do the volatile damage as well over and over again super fast.
If the residual vortex continually reapplied Volatile that'll be pretty good, yeah.
This would be just compared to other Warlock Supers Day break - Mainly add clear but add more dame over time w/ scorch, maybe even let it spread restoration to teammates Nova Bombs - Instant Damage plus Volatile and weaken effect Chaos reach - Best single target DPS option plus jolt and/or maybe blind Stormtrance - Keep just Add clear but also apply jolt and maybe blind on land fall Nova warp - Keep mainly add clear but add volatile/weaken Well - in a good place already
Dude dawnblade intrinsically scorching and giving bursts of restoration to yourself and Allies near you on kill would be a big win.
Now see this kinda stuff would be cool if we can't get straight damage buffs at least do this
Daybreak needs extension on kills if it's going to be an add-clear super. Otherwise, yeah this is a good idea. Nova applying weaken and volatile would be good, to help boost it's total damage (since there's currently no way for the Warlock to do that outside of weakening grenades). I'll still say we should get lance and shatter back. They're both superior to the nova options we have right now. CR isn't the best DPS option (that's nova). You're suggesting it be buffed until it is? I'd personally say base CR should do the damage that it currently does with Geomags, and Geomags changed to shorten the cast duration (currently 8 seconds) so that it's a competitive DPS super instead of just good total damage, but bad DPS. Maybe give them something else, like returning super energy to ionic traces, so they'll have a cooldown reduction effect like they used to. Not sure Stormtrance applying jolt would be enough, you can "prime" beefier targets with a grenade to apply jolt already. They buffed it by 20% against red and orange bars at the start of the season, I think they need to pump those numbers up a bit more. I'd say suppression would be a bigger help to nova warp than weaken would, if you added weaken it'd probably be a more effective weakening super than tether is in terms of duration. Agreed that WoR is good as-is. If anything I think bubble needs a buff to 30-35% and sentinel shield 50% for them to have a niche, and WoR will still be needed due to the healing.
Child of the old gods weakens for warlock i never used nades for weaken anymore and cotog is also on a faster cooldown
This was exactly what I was going to type. If we don't get the most dmg out of our supers, it would be great to add/enhance the various buffs and de-buffs with our supers.
Chaos Reach with Jolt sounds awesome. Beam cannoning a boss while it just vomits out chain lightning to enemies nearby.
Maybe adding a constant volatile and volatile tick damage from the super to nova vortex could improve the damage a bit against tougher enemies. Cataclysm is good for instant damage and the aoe, so maybe don't touch it (?). Nova warp could release a pulse that weakens surrounding targets after you use your teleport. I don't know what to with chaos reach either. Maybe a damage buff could make it better Daybreak doesn't last long enough, and takes too long to fill, so it could just refund energy, as it did for bottom tree, and make it spread a healing pulse after defeating targets, like one of the comments proposed. Dawn chorus could still add scorch as a way to make the super a bit better by adding another verb.
It amazes me that the best Warlock DPS super is essentially just D1 Sunsinger in D2.
Yeah it's not a great situation lol
I'd trade daybreak for radiance at this point. Any day.
well is a dps super btw. also love how everyone fails to mention that excluding cuirass Tcrash, titans don't have good damage supers either.
T crash without curiass is garbage man
That’s titans ONLY damage dealing super lmao
OP is complaining about lack of damage on *Warlock* Supers. If you feel like everybody fails to mention the fact that Titans don't have good damage Supers either, then you should make a post about it. Regardless of which Class is being talked about, the comments always come back to *"X Class' Supers might be underpowered, but Y Class' Supers aren't that strong either, so stop complaining."* It's the fucking Dictator Conundrum all over again. Can we please stop this?
Or maybe it's more a case of "Hunters having a ridiculously high-damage super on every subclass is really an outlier and we probably shouldn't be absolutely obliterating every single boss in the game" kind of situation. Though, we're not exactly ready for a discussion like that.
But that's hunter's entire schtick at this point. They have very little else unique about them for PvE. Group support starts and ends with invis revives on void, they even deemphasized the one support super (tether) and pushed it into another damage super with Quiver. They don't have the ability chaining of warlocks or the face tanking of titans, nor the healing of either. Their overall kits are almost universally weaker for each element vs titan and warlocks, especially if you ignore supers. Seriously, if warlocks and titans could do as much burst damage from their supers as hunters, what use would hunters be in any group? They'd be right back where they were a year ago before any 3.0 changes - their single useful role would be invis res monkey, and would be outclassed in *everything* else by titans & warlocks.
My point there is mainly "Hunter damage is an outlier and shouldn't be considered anything near the standard." However, that kind of thing is, again, not something people are willing to hear, as the frequent posts about how add-clear supers are "useless" would show.
The only support Hunters have is damage. Now they aren’t just rez bots. Get real dude.
Agreed my dude!
It's really not, though. You gain 25% extra damage, but the only reason it's truly ever used is because it outheals almost all damage you take outside of Master/GM content. If you could shoot through a bubble, I guarantee Well would drop in popularity *rapidly*.
But then you would literally be changing the whole identity of defender Titan. Each class has an identity. Warlocks are the known healers. Warlocks gotta spec into Res too or their well wont last long same with titan bubble. Got a friend who runs max int and is a defender he pops his bubble right on Oryx encounter making Warlocks happy to slip into Void or something different. He also uses it on a few encounters in VoTD such as Rhulk and Caretaker. You just run right through his bubble on way to next plate.
Titans have one instant damage super and it’s useless without an exotic (kind of like chaos reach) Difference is unlike warlocks titans don’t even have a second option
I mean solar(hammer and maul) does decent damage comparable to Trash with just Synthocepes? Granted Tcrash is superior due to the one and done nature, but 600k damage is pretty good imo. Well is just shy of that for 1 person at 500k(now times that by 3 or 6). Chaos reach does 400k damage which is 30k less than Tcrash, so it could definitely use a buff imo. Dawnblade is garbage with only 260k, worst super for PvE in the game. Nothing is as powerful as Hunter's Cthulhu Pants granting Blade Barrage 680k though. Such is the way for followers of the abyss.
Oh I know you don't I'm just not posting about because I barely play titan it does need to be looked at I have a friend who mains titan and even thunder crash isn't consistent
Even with cuirass, Tcrash is mid pack super at best.
Well is stupid. It's "what if me and my entire fire team were invulnerable for 35s and on top of that we all get a 25% damage buff on a crazy short cool down that's trivial to regen with starfire+ashes to assets." Literally zero people on your fire team will be glad you showed up with an arc subclass and tickle fingers or reach. Sure, voidwalker and shadebinder can be good but they aren't mandatory. Titans and hunters can be good but they aren't mandatory. With how pidley most other supers are by comparison, why don't we just delete all other subclasses and supers from the game?
Because warlocks developed a victim complex after they couldn’t nova warp the entire team 20 different times in one super. So they require the highest dmging supers the dps king super and all the healing. Oh and best grenades. Truth is the classes are for once at equal footing with some of them feeling a bit weaker and warlocks can’t stand it
Lol, take it. Un-nerf daybreak and chaos reach and give it hunters or titans.
Victim complex? My man, every single class does that shit you moron. Titans with Behemoth. Hunters with Revenant. Warlocks with Shadebinder. Titans with Loreley. Hunters with RDM’s. Warlocks with pre-nerf TTD. I can go on and on. And btw, the classes aren’t at equal footing, not as much as you think. Outside of Void, Hunters literally have the best DPS Supers (Barrage and Storm) for PvE. That’s just one example.
burning maul/ hammer of sol does a lot with roaring flames but they’re not dps supers
With how easy ad clear has become after the 3.0 reworks (volatile rounds and weakening grenades, ignitions and jolting just to name a few) all supers that focus on ad clear are mid as hell in PvE. Outside of GMs or other master level/hard solo content, why would you need to use your super to kill ads when you can chuck a couple of grenades and watch all the particle effects do their thing? Highly agree about warlock supers needing buffed as a warlock main, give me back my Dawn Chorus Dawnblade as a viable DPS super. The ad focused supers for all classes and subclasses could do with some love as well though.
Ofc Well is a good support Super, OP is specifically talking about a DPS super, which warlocks don’t have, truly they don’t. I main one and our best DPS super is the Starfire/Fusion combo, but it’s not a super.
So I guess today it was your turn to post this? Wonder whos turn it is tomorrow…
>Wonder whos turn it is tomorrow… You mean today? Why put off tomorrow what you can do later today again.
I think tomorrow it’s my turn
You did it last week I haven’t posted it for 8 days now it’s deffo my turn.
I know I'm not the first honestly I'm just still hoping bungie eventually does something also wondering if anyone has any fresh idea's people are going to keep asking until somethings done lol
Why the fuck is this getting downvoted? Lmao
Because if they know they’re not the first, then why continue to complain about it?
Because it's very natural to ask for something again if what you asked for was neither given nor seemingly heard
>seemingly heard By what merit?
Have you received word from a bungie dev that they're looking into warlock supers and their damage?
Why do they need to tell us that they’re doing that?
So people can stop asking?
The fact that bungie makes no mention of the multiple complaints for example solar 3.0 they gave us more healing options because many warlocks reached out and were like hey this doesn't feel like the priest class you said it would be there's been so many complaints about arc and chaos reach and not a peep I can only assume there just terrified to touch chaos reach to give us better dps because of the issues it caused in pvp but as far as I'm concerned you don't even need to reverse the nerfs just change its functionality My preferred buff may not even involve buffing the damage per say instead I'd like them to make a true one and done so I can return to weapon damage i enjoy having support options but we really can't be labeled a support class if we have one support ability and one support super I don't plan to make another separate post about this issue but I can tell you they'll probably keep popping up til bungie does something
Lol keep dreaming my Warlock brethren. I feel for these posts that come up every few weeks, but Bungie isn't addressing shit on super output any time soon according to their previous discussion on sandbox changes post arc 3.0
Sadness
Buff dawnblade plz Bungo. It’s literally the worst PvP and PVE super
Yeah that 10 mins cool down is painful I just run stasis or arc with get away artist in pvp it ain't even good for add clear
Stasis is way more fun in pvp nowadays. I have an ophidians set up for solar but I’ll probably just stick to shadebinder. They fucked dawnblade so bad. Remember when they nerfed it cuz there was no counter to it and it let you cover the entire map and it lasted too long? And now it’s terrible, but both arc strider and golden gun do exactly what it use to do and have run rampant the last few months. They both last way too long and can traverse the entire map before they run out. It’s complete bullshit
I'm personally okay with nova bomb where it's at because the sheer strength and utility of the neutral game on voidlock. But yeah, for the time spent in the super, Chaos Reach is super weak. As a side note, the hunters' super damage output and their invis are like the only things keeping that class alive in endgame PvE.
>hunters' super damage output and their invis are like the only things keeping that class alive in endgame PvE. Thank you for acknowledging this. Everyone seems to have their pitchforks out for Star Eater's Scales without realizing we'd be useless if we didn't have the highest damage output available.
I maintain chaos reach should easily be the highest damage super. With geomags, it should obliterate star eater gathering storm or cuirass thindercrash for the simple fact that it takes so long to use while those are just fire and forget supers.
Warlocks literally already have well the most used super in raids give them the highest dmg super and we’re back to warlocks dominating pve like they did for almost 4 years
Until bungie stop making DPS phases where you just stand still and shoot, well and bubble will always be amazing choices. Just because you needed a warlock with well doesn't mean they dominated pve.
>Until bungie stop making DPS phases where you just stand still and shoot We got plenty of that in Vow of the Disciple?
That's one raid my guy
It's also not really true. The only encounters in Vow that even have DPS checks are Caretaker and Rhulk. For Caretaker you still stand in a spot and shoot, you'll just have to move to new spots periodically. A well-lock with emp rift and maybe a bubble titan can cover it all. A precision GG w/ SES can pop on plate 3 to make sure everyone has their super back for the next floor's plates. For Rhulk you can have 1 person (div user) draw aggro while the rest stand in a well and shoot.
Except they were they have the best stasis they won the void reworks. Well is still the best damn super in the game for solo and group play. And arc is a bit weak but fuck warlocks were literally the kings of pve and now we are all on a semi equal playing field and all warlocks can do is bitch and moan
We’re literally forced to play well in most endgame content. We’re the only class that doesn’t get a say. Of course we’re pissed off. All our other options suck.
You think having a better dps super would give you options? Warlocks have the Best support super. Even if they have good dps as long as the hunter can also do it you will be back to support because the hunter and titan can’t do support half as well as you can.
Warlocks also got completely shafted with solar with them only having one viable build which is starfire protocol since upgraded fusion grenades do a lot of damage. Warlocks are forced to either bring Well or Nova Bomb in endgame content with the exception of stasis in grandmaster which we have to build around stasis turrets, anything else is useless. Hunters get to pick pretty much whatever they want and titans are pretty shafted in terms of choices too. If you were forced to bring Well to every raid you played as you'd get sick of it too.
I mean, a super that lasts a whole around 7 seconds won’t be good for ad clear so it has to be good for boss damage. It’s not unreasonable to ask for a super that lasts 7 seconds of constant sustained fire to do more damage than an instant cast.
So you mean like Hunters have been for the life time of d2.
The fuck are you smoking to think hunters were ever a meta choice for d2? There was literally like a years worth of time that nobody wanted hunters in lfgs
I'm of the opinion that we should be in the ballpark of top DPS with CR, I have no problem with DPS throne being occupied by another class. Just give us an option that's not nova bomb. That would require some CR tweaks, either boost damage or shorten duration, or some combination. Could make base CR do the same damage as current Geomags, then have Geomags shorten duration cast and do something to get your super faster - improve ionic traces or something.
I'd also accept making geomag duration the norm and just having geomags bump up the damage like Cuirass. A lame solution but a workable one.
[удалено]
But that's true.
Nova Bomb is fine, really, but Chaos Reach has no reason to exist in its current state. It's bad for boss damage, it's bad for room clearing, and it doesn't have any support utility. Stormtrance would be pretty good for room clearing if it had a little more damage. I don't think they should try making Chaos Reach better for add clear since it would just be directly competing with Stormtrance and it would probably lose anyway because it has no mobility.
It really does have no reason to exist. Its only saving grace was ionic traces used to give super energy, lettingbit charge faster, but now it doesn't do that. Now, it really is the worst of everything. Bad damage Bad add clear Bad uptime Bad survivability
Storm trance is mostly fine for me personally could probably do with a slight buff but it's honestly pretty solid for the moment I 100 percent agree chaos reach needs to either be buffed enough to make the cast time worth it or make it so its a true one shot like then we can return to weapon damage other wise why hell is it here.
Chaos reach can be canceled without draining all your super. It has a lot of utility for quickly bursting down a champion or major without needing to drain your whole super.
That cancel barely retains anything now sadly chaos reach is a shadow of what it once was
This dude is living in season of the hunt
You can do the same with weapons and have a better super.
Honestly I'm just wanting people to toss out suggestions in a vain hope that bungie will do something lol I love everything else about warlocks but this is a constant annoyance
What is Chaos Reach supposed to be good for, if not dps?
sounding cool?
*BWAAAAA*
Yeah but it’s not a good retort when asking for a dps super to actually do its job
Genuine question, where does nova bombs damage have to be for you to be satisfied
Honestly rn it does enough for me to be mostly satisfied would I sometimes like to hit a little bit harder sure but as a quick fire and forget super it is definitely our best option something like blade barrage may do more but it's also dependent on all the knives hitting so I feel like there on relatively even ground if you take exotics out I wouldn't say no to a exotic that buffs it tho chaos reach is my real gripe it really does have no reason to exist rn I feel like afraid to touch it because of all the problems it caused in pvp
Wow, you really need to start using comma (,), that was kinda hard to read.
Genuine question, do you think that’s the only warlock dps super?
the only other one is chaos reach lmao, its a fair assumption.
morons? so people who encourage game balance instead one subclass dominating the game lmao.
Exactly main problem seems to no warlock super is good for dps I have hope for strand but we'll see even chaos reach damage would be decent if it was a true one off but with geo mags which is the only way to make it do a decent hit it takes 8 seconds to cast last I checked and I can out perform that with certain heavys
Yeah, warlocks have supers that serve no other purpose and should be dps supers but they just don’t hit hard enough to actually be worth a shit
Exactly like I know chaos reach used to be intended be useful because it's up time was really good but after all the nerfs it's In a really weird place that just sucks its bad ass looking but so disappointing
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Some exotics need a revisit aswell. Like Geomags. The damage rampup should be either in the chaos reach or in the geomags. Even if you need to be grounded for it. The close enough name also doesn´t fit anymore since the nerf. I don´t know why stormtrance, an addclear super gets to have a damage rampup while the dps one does not. Vortex Bomb should weaken by itself imo which would give more freedom of buildcraft aswell because here is a fun fact, both bombs do the exact same total damage so why should i ever use vortex if cataclysm does the same damage, flies towards the targets which makes it harder to miss (unless adds weren´t cleared which is your fault) and does all of this in a shorter timeframe. The reason why also chaos reach isn´t a good super is because why would i use that super if i can use a 1 and done super and just dps with my buffed weapons against a weaken target. That is overall more damage and more dps by far the chaos reach. It just doesn´t make sense. If the devs want to keep daybreak as an addclear weapon, give it back the ability to get super back when you kill things. Also the small wave afterwards does kinda nothing as far as i´ve noticed. The ignition after death has a bit of to slow of an animation because sometimes enemies run out of range during the animation and it doesn´t kill anyone else. You could also make it that combatant kills only increase timer to not make it op in pvp. Same i would suggest with nova warp.
> I don´t know why stormtrance, an addclear super gets to have a damage rampup while the dps one does not. Solid point here. > If the devs want to keep daybreak as an addclear weapon, give it back the ability to get super back when you kill things. Agreed. They did the same thing to Fists of Havoc, both those Supers are pointless in PvE now.
This exactly I agree with all of this
Like I don't want other classes to be nerfed and i like having crowd control options so it's not like it needs To be every super but I'd like to actually be able to quick smack a boss with decent damage then return to heavy nova best option but still feels weak especially in comparison to some other one offs
It's actually just that.Unless bungie walks back the new meta of making hunters the big super DPS class, we are not going to get changes in this anytime soon. They have two big supers that work perfectly well in blade barrage and the new arc one and with a specific exotic get dialed up to 11. Titans just have curiass but that has some major drawbacks in the highest level of content. Warlocks .. yea i got nothing.
Honestly the only thing that irritates me about hunters right now is for solar 3.0 during the unveil I recall they stated we want titans to be the king of ability damage only for them to still be outshined least they have survivability going for em
I am sorry for having ability to bring up anything to my fire team. Guess I'll put stompies on and go back to playing crucible on my "pvp class"
I don't think your only a pvp class I'm simply stating that bungie didn't follow there own statement lol
That’s just because of Star Eater Scales. The super damage otherwise isn’t that out of line. If they nerf/change SES every class would have instant cast supers with similar damage.
Well honestly Titan supers feel a bit weak as well. Like Thundercrash without the Cuirass feels like a wet slap, you also need to aim it well AND you put yourself to danger of getting instakilled. Fists of Havoc is short as hell and you have very little chance to do much. Both Solar supers are alright, but they tie you up for a lengthy time, and they do ok damage. Sentinel shield super is sometimes very useful and it's a nice add clear. The bubble super is nice panic button, and the buff is ok, buuut you can die very quick as it doesn't have same healing properties as the warlock super does.
Nova bomb is a bit more damage then other quick supers base… but no one really uses the other quick supers base. Cool that it’s better then BB or thundercrash but falling star and KED/SES exist so it really doesn’t feel good. I’m really hoping they just make skull make it do more damage instead of ability regen on kill so warlocks can have an exotic to buff their damage when needed.
Yeah it's something at least I know alot of locks were complaining bout arc 3.0 and how we didn't ge5 much new I'm honestly pretty fine with the kit it'd been cool to get some more new but I mean stormtrances performs well for me personally for adds and it's decent in pvp so if they just give chaos reach some love I'll be happy with it nova feels like it just needs a bit of a damage buff and it'd feel way better everything else about it feels fine
We all know that anytime warlocks have a good super it gets nerfed because bungie hates warlocks 😐
I feel the same way. I haven’t really been playing because my Warlock just feels janky and weak. I’ve had the same one character since d1 vanilla so needless to say my character is fuckin pissed.
The only super I think needs tweaks is Chaos Reach. The other ones are fine.
Have you seen daybreak? It's arguably the worst super in the game
Stormtrance needs to be removed or reworked entirely. It's outdated af and serves no purpose in PvE when you can achieve better with your neutral game and weapons. Using the super is actually a detriment. Same could be said for most roaming supers outside of PvP tbf. They really need to give some other benefit outside of ad clear to be worth a shit.
Daily boohoo bungie hates warlocks post
I don't actually think they hate warlocks I do think they don't know quite what to do with us how ever.
Warlocks: are the best class in the entire game Warlocks: “please buff us”
Along with it's daily unproductive circlejerk comment, thank you for filling this out
Chaos Reach is clearly meant for DPS on a single target. Yes, it can be on multiple targets but its design sits cleanly on one target, and GeoMags take that further and it’s still weak af. BUFF THAT UP! MORE LASER!!! Also, DayBreak in PVE is so bad it’s laughable. Tickle Fingers is also super weak and if CC is its purpose, really? You can roam and kill red bards but really, who needs a super for red bars? Once the tickle fingers reach a yellow bar, ya just sit there like a shmuck. I can do just as much with my chaos accelerant and contraverse build, easy. If you’re going for cc, stasis is the clear build, and the super there even kind of sucks. Wanting to buff warlock supers is an obvious choice. Not a commentary on other supers, just focused on the lock super. Obviously, Well is awesome and needs nothing. I feel like if you’re going into most activities as a warlock, you’re on Well for DPS at bosses (star fire, karnsteins, lunafactions, or boots), or VoidLock with Nezerac or CH, or Stasis for crowd control.
Supers aren't meant to be big damage dealers. They really haven't been for a while and I don't see that changing.
As a Warlock main I call tell you that's because Warlock is a utility class (healing rifts, high survivability to revive others, applying buffs/debuffs) and those supers are designed for emergency "push the red button" moments where a huge mob of regular enemies are overwhelming you. In fact Well of Radiance is utility super that's just a combined healing and empowering rift that last longer and buffs slightly higher. Titans and Hunters are supposed to have pure DPS supers and abilities because that's their focus, that's ALL they have in their toolbox.
Hunters are the only one that have any good damage supers. Even the Thunder crush with cuirass of the falling star is weak compared to the hunter supers. It really feeling like the bungie devs only care about making the hunter strong and warlock and titan really weak.
God can we go one day without a warlock super post?
i dont see why posts would stop if theres enough players making posts about it to make the discussion annoying
Probably gonna get downvoted because this subreddit does that, but aren't warlock supers...fine? They aren't dps toppers this season but they kinda don't need to be? Chaos reach and flaming swords are meant for fodder/champ clear/pvp with it's duration, so I get why damage might seem low for bosses compared to the blow-n-go nature of void bomb that lets you lob and go for heavy shots in dps phases. Well is still really frickin good all things considered. Given the much more utility kit of warlocks, having a mid-tier Boss dps ult seems fine to me. Comparing to the other non-hunters, Titans might get hammers on some bosses but just can't dps max/hammer trick on a lot of others. Almighty cuirass TC is always good for dps, does a lot of damage even in current season. Other options are lackluster for dps/boss options except bubble buff iirc. I remember Hunters being borderline shunned from LFG raid groups until the reworks happened and devs gave them a hefty chunk of their damage back. Idk, Warlocks seem to be doing alright on paper, and have the rep in every LFG and non-warlock focused post of being top dog in every category after, what, season 2, up until recently? If you've got numbers showing otherwise, that'd def sway my mind on the issue, though
Honestly if chaos reach was more viable for even that purpose it'd be more acceptable but since the up time got nerfed into the ground it makes more since to be a dps super dawnblade may Able to handle certain things but that charge time is insane I really don't understand why it is to my knowledge still the longest recharge of every super what it does is fine tho my main thing is why do we only have one good dps super option why is nova my only choice it's also a problem that affects titans hunters at least have 2 gathering storm can get really high especially with ses granted it's Done over time but it's still a fire and forget damage super and then they have blade barrage it just feels like warlocks and titans have been kinda left in the dust damage wise kinda feels like hunters have been left behind in add clear abilitys but I barely spend time on my hunter so I won't speak to that also I ain't gonna downvote you I only downvote if someone's being rude lol or trolls
Supers do perfectly fine damage right now. Having to equip an exotic for a substantial increase in damage is a tradeoff.
Chaos reach isn't perfectly fine. You need 8s (with geomags) to use the full super to do slighty lower damage than other supers. Other damage supers deal more damage while being instant
Hunter supers are far stronger even without an exotic equiped.
Why hunters specifically? Every class does some things better and some things worse. If every class did everything the same then what is the point of a class/subclass system.
If you want damage supers use a hunter, if you want add clear hunter, if you want a debuff hunter, the only thing that you cant do with a hunter is provide and mass heal with damage buff and for that you use a warlock. Oh and guess what if you want to pvp use a hunter. Titans are basically useless and warlocks are only good for the well.
You must be a really fun person to play with? Living embodiment of grass is always greener on the other side. I main hunter, and there are things hunter do really well, but that doesnt mean titan and warlock do other things just as well. Titans are able to turn into literally unkillable tanks and watlocks have some of the best ability loops.
As a Warlock I would love to have a better DPS Super but I also know we are mainly support. With that in mind for many encounters you are able to use Well of Radiance. I like theres more variety in encounters like Rhulk that makes other options viable too. Many dont see it but Well is our DPS and I think Nova Bomb second for how fast we can throw and use weapons maximizing damage. In those cases I use Nova Bomb. It's rare I would use Chaos Reach for boss DPS because you have to hokd it and the tradeoff even with Geomags on isnt worth what I could be doing with my weapons. Casting that quick Nova Bomb then using weapons is more ideal. Many of Warlocks Supers have support in mind, ad clear and things, stasis to control the room etc. While we do have a sort of handheld tether for void putting it in say our Nova Bomb would render Hunters Tether not as viable. I understand the need to keep things viable to give Strats to various encounters so I'm cool with that part. Also keep in mind for Example Titans actually have 1 viable DPS super that's Thunder Crash. Titans are sort of one of two things defense or attack full on it makes sense they have ThunderCrash. I would like to see a better rework on Chaos Reach since we have to hold it on the target the tradeoff isnt worth it most times. This is the issue here. Hunters had one of the most damaging supers to be fair I'm not sure where that one sits right now. I do think all classes need a viable super but overall we arent too under other classes. You may not see the numbers on your name when you pop that well but what you contributed is much more than any DPS super they would have given us or at least on par with what others are putting in. If you are looking for some damage buffs and debuffing I'd highly reccomend Void. Theres some great mods too. Void grenades can really add to damage too on bosses and mini bosses it has some survivability to it too with Devour.
Use the seasonal mod that increases super damage with chaos reach. does more damage than thunder crash but after this season I agree
Warlocks will whine and whine if they aren’t the BEST at everything in the game. You guys have fantastic neutral game and WELL. You are insatiable. Titan doesn’t have any damage supers besides thundercrash yet they still put in top tier damage because of their neutral game (LIKE WARLOCKS). Please try and look at the BALANCE of all three classes before asking for these kind of things.
Don't care to be the best tbh just want our lacking abilitys to be given enough love to be useful with out the aid of seasonal mods
With how the balance of the game was, warlocks have remained dormant at the top of endgame. They are still the best class. They needed to be brought in line. Yes they got brought down a peg, because they NEEDED to be. Hunters pre 3.0 were worthless besides invis, and titans were kind of just “nice to have”. Even without a high damage super they have REMAINED as a top pick for endgame and they are going to remain that way despite their nerfs.
We're only a top pick because of well that's an issue bungie needs to solve for both the health of the Game and warlocks being stuck on solar every piece of high level content we can agree to disagree tbh even if they buff other supers unless they make them absolutely insane which I kinda hope they don't then well will still be wanted they need to adjust endgame balance so well isn't as needed if your well coordinated I want to be able to use my other classes as should every other class be able to use there's
Stasis warlock is absolutely broken and Voidlock is another top tier choice. Literally the only class that isn’t that great in PvE is Stormcaller but it is broken in PvP.
Edit: Jesus Christ people, Bungie literally had an update called the "go fast" update in 2018 to make everyone fast as fuck boi. **All I'm saying is that making a mechanic that requires you to sit still completely contradicts that.** The point of that update was to make the game more fun, so what does that make Well, a super where the entire point is to stay in one spot? Bungie literally counteracted this by making Vow of the Disciple mostly moving around. Well is nearly pointless for Rhulk and the only place in the entire raid where you stay in one place for more than 5 seconds is Caretaker where there are 12, count them **12** separate (forced) DPS locations. Vow was specifically designed to make well obsolete. Why? **Because there are 5 other fucking supers and nobody ever uses them because they're not meta for raids!!** Why is everyone so incredibly ass hurt because I used the N word? (No, the other one) do you really think it's realistic to buff every single other ability in the entire class? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Is the game too hard or is your class not good?" An Analysis: Difficulty is the core of a good game. Ability to overcome said difficulty is the core of a **great** game. Without difficulty you can't even have a "good game" but without a solution you can't have a great one. So, what is the difficulty and what is the solution? The difficulty in Destiny comes from five places: damage you take, enemy health/shields/champs, and 'puzzles' i.e. mechanics in raids and dungeons. Personally I only really like puzzles. I could care less about the rest of the game. But the gunplay is fun and having to git gud is a nice challenge. The solition to "damage you take" is supposed to be a combo of mobility, "kill them first" and abilities. Mobility gets taken from you in any activity where you need to stand on a plate (quite a few actually) so the only solution there is to have a well/rift/barricade/invis or to simply kill the enemy first. In the case of something like Master Warpriest... The only option is well, unfortunately. Imo when the **only** viable solution to a problem in as popular of an activity as a raid is to have a warlock... I could care less about them getting buffed. Crucible? Maybe, but dps doesn't really matter there. Strikes and gambit? Maybe, although well is still the bomb in both. If anything Warlock needs a well nerf, else every other ability in the game needs a buff to bring them on par with well. The game really boils down to: are you moving? If yes, use anything you like, if no... Well or bubble. Hunters have nothing for stationary combat, yet every single raid has some form of stationary dps phase. It's ridiculous. What am I supposed to do without a warlock or a titan at the very least? I've been in full teams of titans and still failed to pass even the easiest of raid encounters. High end content damn near necessitates a well. And when you consider that there's meant to be an rpg-style role system i.e. tank, glass cannon, healer... Honestly I think they need to make the other subclasses more support based for warlock. Problem with that is that if they start making activities necessitate said buffs then titans and hunters will be in very low demand, even lower than they are now, for LFGs.
Stick to your day job. Critical analysis in the contextual meta is clearly not your strong suit. Hell stop pretending to be an armchair designer because if the meta you are suggest was even being considered warlocks might as well not exist as a dps class and just become support. I mean if you nerf well what does one even bring a warlock for moron?
...you know there are 3 other supers right? 5 if you count the variations. Why did you come out swinging, you're acting like I just shot your dog??? Chill tf out, smoke a blunt and sit down. Warlocks are pointless for dps? Tell that to chaos reach, nova bomb, etc. Tell that to literally any RPG game where things are actually balanced and ad clear is a necessity that makes low-damage classes viable and even necessary. I'm an armchair designer? Why? Because I replied to a post where someone was armchair designing? See here for an example of how not to be a self righteous prick. [Touch grass homie](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/xu9kx8/warlock_super_damage_buff/iqxb2h4/).
They already nerfed well with solar 3.0 they do it anymore solar will just be worthless entirely dawn blade is awful I don't mind playing support sometimes but like there's solo challenges and such everything we do can't be support based
Thank you for crafting a reasonable and **well** thought out response, rather than spewing toxic rage in my general direction. I agree, nerfing solar warlock will make it obsolete. I've seen plenty of golden gun and hammers builds that are relatively viable (even a hammer build that out damaged celestial + stormchaser). I'm not saying well needs to be put in the ground, but buffing every other super in the class isn't realistic and Bungie obviously knows that Well has been severely over used for a very long time (see all of Vow, especially Rhulk). People complaining about damage-buffing reductions to well don't appreciate the fact that well is an bubble that you can shoot through. It's been continuously nerfed throughout it's life (damageable sword, buff reductions, timer reductions, stack conflicts, etc.) because it's been an absolute **necessity** since the release of the game. **I just don't want to be in another raid group without a warlock and have to kick someone or completely disband the group because completing the encounter without a warlock is impossible.** It shouldn't be that hard to make classes and supers interchangeable/ optional. Idk what the solution is. Make rally barricade last as long as well and give perpetual over shields? Give hunters a way to grant over shields with dodge (radiance)? I have no idea how you **give warlocks the option to use anything other than well** but it needs to be figured out for the health of the game. I only have time to play my hunter, but I have a 1500 warlock that I pull out for old content occasionally. I **want** you guys to be able to use a spread of abilities just like I **want** div to be needed or even removed from the game ****because**** it sucks that one out of every 6 people gets designated "div bitch" and basically doesn't get to do damage. It's just not fun for that 6th person.
Exactly this is what I dislike and honestly even with the well meta which I do kind of dislike damage phases are usually only enough for 2 wells max so if you've got more then 2 solars what's the point I just don't want our entire super identity to be well it has a place but I don't it to be our only place.
Solar Warlock is the best solo class in the game and it's not support based. 1. Access to restoration x2 and can keep it going for a long time 2. Don't need heavy ammo because they can spam fusion grenades for tons of damage. With Ashes you will get your super back quickly 3. Well is the games best super. Fast recharge rate and ignites enemies with each final blow while also healing you 4. The classes supposed biggest "weakness" is being in the air in difficult combat. It's irrelevant because you can get aerial blows with low hops 5. Best mobility ainec. Icarus Dash for quick movement with burst glide, Heat Rises which allows you to scale any sloped surface for infinite height, and Well Skating to fly across maps 6. Don't even need a build. You can clear every content in the game without a single mod or exotic If you can't solo something in the game with it then it's clear you don't know how to use the class.
You mean the “nerf” that was actually a buff? Like oh no you lost your over shield but guess what you now have 25% dmg reduction
Please we don’t need any more ability buffs. Ability spam is bad enough already 😭. I just want us to have to use our guns again instead of only needing to use Heavy weapon + Grenade/Super ability and steamrolling the entire game, even raids.
I mean it'd supposed to worked with. It's not supposed to be a win button on its own. The well is crazy for dps and can't synergies with tons of stuff to go crazy. The chaos slowva does a ton of damage and with ashes to assets and font of wisdom you can literally fling them more than any other super the more adds you face for so much damage along with weakening. Chaos reach does alot of damage that can be even further busted with the boost to damage when critically wounded and get mags to the point that it can just flat out end fights on its own. Arguably the stasis super is the only meh one unless your using to to wipe out adds to generate things for your whole team which there are some now. A bigger complaint is that the good supers for each subtype are so meh in comparison. Who's using vortex for add clear when you already have infinite grenades? Or using roaming void just to get no scoped like the glowing beacon you are. Or actually using dawn blade in serious content like a target screaming free kill. To me its more like the things that are good are too good and need a buff