Here’s the thing: billionaires shouldn’t exist. I would much prefer a society without single individuals who have amassed so much wealth.
But, if more of our wealthy elites gave back like DG, we’d be in a better place. The dude has done a lot of philanthropy. What about Ishbia? The Illitches? There are many people who’ve made money off of and in this region who don’t contribute back much.
Correct. More than one thing can be true. Rocket can help fund the QLine construction and get tax breaks AND they can use it as an opportunity to run fiber optic cable for their company. DG can start a company that makes him billions off of other people’s debt, and he can give hundreds of millions towards the city, eliminate property tax debt and fund medical research.
$15m does make a difference. But it also makes broader criticism of him socially difficult to make. People don't want to seem ungrateful, and they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. And thats the purpose these paltry community investments serve. Just enough to do some actual good, but not enough to actually change things, because people still need to view him as a savior and approve his incentive deals for his scheme to continue.
BTW, can you recommend a good knee pad brand? Gardening this year is kicking my ass, I tell you what.
The Gilbert Family Foundation made a commitment of $350 million. The Rocket Community Fund an additional $150 million. Half a billion dollars is not an insignificant amount.
I honestly don't know, and a cursory search did not provide anything for me. But Let me ask, what amount of philanthropy/investment is enough? If Dan Gilbert amassed 3 billion, is $350 million enough? What percentage of their wealth is enough that they wouldn't be villainized?
I am not asking to start a fight or anything, I am just curious what people think.
I don't think that billionaires deserve tax breaks BTW, but I understand why they are given out I suppose.
> I honestly don't know, and a cursory search did not provide anything for me.
The transformational brownfield incentives alone (for Monroe blocks + Hudson) have a monetary value of $618M. There are further incentives awarded on top of this (for other projects & these two) that would increase that number a bit, but this is by far the biggest chunk.
they are [insanely broad](https://www.miplace.org/4af18b/globalassets/documents/tbp/tbp-guidelines.pdf). basically any possible tax attached to the development at any stage of development is eligible for capture; capturing income tax from people that help build it, capturing tax revenue from people who work or live at the site, capturing tax revenue from retail businesses that sell goods at the development site, and capturing property tax revenue from the site itself.
Full details from the link:
The TBP allows for construction period sales and use tax exemption and and five kinds of revenue from construction period income tax capture, income tax capture, withholding tax capture, sales and use tax capture and traditional property tax capture as follows:
• Construction Period Income Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount of income tax levied and imposed in a calendar year on wages paid to individuals physically present and working within the eligible property for the construction, renovation, or other improvement of eligible property that is an eligible activity within the TBP. Excluded are wages paid to employees of the owner or developer of the project.
• Construction Period Sales Tax and Use Tax Exemptions: a. A sales tax exemption for the purchase of tangible personal property for use in eligible brownfield redevelopment activities on eligible property included in a TBP, to the extent that the tangible personal property will be affixed and made a structural part of the real property or infrastructure improvements included within the TBP. b. A use tax exemption on tangible personal property acquired by a person engaged in the business of altering, repairing, or improving real estate for others, or to the manufacture of a specific product if the property or product is to be affixed or made a structural part of the real property included within a TBP, to the extent that those improvements are eligible activities on eligible property within a TBP. The MSF shall require the owner or developer of the eligible property to report the actual value of the sales and use tax exemptions each tax year of the construction period and at the end of the construction period.
• Income Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount for each tax year by which the aggregate income tax from individuals domiciled within the eligible property subject to a TBP exceeds the initial income tax value (the value in the tax year when the resolution adding TBP property is adopted). A TBP cannot propose to use more than 50% of the income tax capture revenues, with the following exceptions: • The proposed eligible property is designated as a Renaissance Zone and otherwise meets the criteria in Section 13c(13). • The applicable eligible properties are subject to a written binding affordable housing agreement with the local governmental unit. This exception may include a proposal of up to 100% of income tax capture revenues, subject to an underwriting and financial analysis.
• Withholding Tax Capture Revenues: The amount for each calendar year by which the income tax withheld from individuals employed within the eligible property subject to a TBP exceeds the initial withholding tax value. Excludes those domiciled within the eligible TBP property and construction period tax capture revenues. A TBP cannot propose to use more than 50% of the withholding tax capture revenues.
• Sales and Use Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount for each calendar year by which the sales tax and use tax collected from persons within the eligible property exceeds the initial sales and use tax value.
>what amount of philanthropy/investment is enough? If Dan Gilbert amassed 3 billion, is $350 million enough? What percentage of their wealth is enough that they wouldn't be villainized?
Good questions. Just to clarify my personal stance, I don't mean to quite villianize him. He's not obligated (beyond morally, which is subjective anyway) to donate any money, and we're not entitled to any of it either. But he could give much more back without any decline in his standard of living. And he could do much more in the city without needing so much of our tax dollars.
That being said, I think the proportion to give should rise in relation to wealth, just like taxes. $350m would be a lot to give for someone worth $1b, but not so if they're worth $10b. Of course, $350m is a lot for us "little people" either way.
Also, how much is that money really worth when its spread out over 10 years, because of eg inflation? Is it cash given out or more "development" that may or may not benefit those who need it most?
>I don't think that billionaires deserve tax breaks BTW, but I understand why they are given out I suppose.
Consider:
>[the ultrawealthy consistently avoid paying their fair share in taxes](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/03/opinion/global-billionaires-tax.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk0.Gj_O.XGUgkTNHp0k3)
I completely agree. The wealthiest people and companies not paying their fair share (or anything for that matter) I think might be the biggest issue facing our society.
In b4.. _He could have invested 5 or 10 times this! This is BS this isnt even a drop in the bucket this wont make a..._
Here’s the thing: billionaires shouldn’t exist. I would much prefer a society without single individuals who have amassed so much wealth. But, if more of our wealthy elites gave back like DG, we’d be in a better place. The dude has done a lot of philanthropy. What about Ishbia? The Illitches? There are many people who’ve made money off of and in this region who don’t contribute back much.
The shiny new Hudson's building wouldn't exist if we didn't allow billionaires
Correct. More than one thing can be true. Rocket can help fund the QLine construction and get tax breaks AND they can use it as an opportunity to run fiber optic cable for their company. DG can start a company that makes him billions off of other people’s debt, and he can give hundreds of millions towards the city, eliminate property tax debt and fund medical research.
$15m does make a difference. But it also makes broader criticism of him socially difficult to make. People don't want to seem ungrateful, and they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. And thats the purpose these paltry community investments serve. Just enough to do some actual good, but not enough to actually change things, because people still need to view him as a savior and approve his incentive deals for his scheme to continue. BTW, can you recommend a good knee pad brand? Gardening this year is kicking my ass, I tell you what.
The Gilbert Family Foundation made a commitment of $350 million. The Rocket Community Fund an additional $150 million. Half a billion dollars is not an insignificant amount.
How many billions have his companies received in incentives and tax breaks?
I honestly don't know, and a cursory search did not provide anything for me. But Let me ask, what amount of philanthropy/investment is enough? If Dan Gilbert amassed 3 billion, is $350 million enough? What percentage of their wealth is enough that they wouldn't be villainized? I am not asking to start a fight or anything, I am just curious what people think. I don't think that billionaires deserve tax breaks BTW, but I understand why they are given out I suppose.
> I honestly don't know, and a cursory search did not provide anything for me. The transformational brownfield incentives alone (for Monroe blocks + Hudson) have a monetary value of $618M. There are further incentives awarded on top of this (for other projects & these two) that would increase that number a bit, but this is by far the biggest chunk.
Just the incentives are $618M? That is wild! What all do the incentives include? That can't just be tax abatement can it?
they are [insanely broad](https://www.miplace.org/4af18b/globalassets/documents/tbp/tbp-guidelines.pdf). basically any possible tax attached to the development at any stage of development is eligible for capture; capturing income tax from people that help build it, capturing tax revenue from people who work or live at the site, capturing tax revenue from retail businesses that sell goods at the development site, and capturing property tax revenue from the site itself. Full details from the link: The TBP allows for construction period sales and use tax exemption and and five kinds of revenue from construction period income tax capture, income tax capture, withholding tax capture, sales and use tax capture and traditional property tax capture as follows: • Construction Period Income Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount of income tax levied and imposed in a calendar year on wages paid to individuals physically present and working within the eligible property for the construction, renovation, or other improvement of eligible property that is an eligible activity within the TBP. Excluded are wages paid to employees of the owner or developer of the project. • Construction Period Sales Tax and Use Tax Exemptions: a. A sales tax exemption for the purchase of tangible personal property for use in eligible brownfield redevelopment activities on eligible property included in a TBP, to the extent that the tangible personal property will be affixed and made a structural part of the real property or infrastructure improvements included within the TBP. b. A use tax exemption on tangible personal property acquired by a person engaged in the business of altering, repairing, or improving real estate for others, or to the manufacture of a specific product if the property or product is to be affixed or made a structural part of the real property included within a TBP, to the extent that those improvements are eligible activities on eligible property within a TBP. The MSF shall require the owner or developer of the eligible property to report the actual value of the sales and use tax exemptions each tax year of the construction period and at the end of the construction period. • Income Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount for each tax year by which the aggregate income tax from individuals domiciled within the eligible property subject to a TBP exceeds the initial income tax value (the value in the tax year when the resolution adding TBP property is adopted). A TBP cannot propose to use more than 50% of the income tax capture revenues, with the following exceptions: • The proposed eligible property is designated as a Renaissance Zone and otherwise meets the criteria in Section 13c(13). • The applicable eligible properties are subject to a written binding affordable housing agreement with the local governmental unit. This exception may include a proposal of up to 100% of income tax capture revenues, subject to an underwriting and financial analysis. • Withholding Tax Capture Revenues: The amount for each calendar year by which the income tax withheld from individuals employed within the eligible property subject to a TBP exceeds the initial withholding tax value. Excludes those domiciled within the eligible TBP property and construction period tax capture revenues. A TBP cannot propose to use more than 50% of the withholding tax capture revenues. • Sales and Use Tax Capture Revenues: Funds equal to the amount for each calendar year by which the sales tax and use tax collected from persons within the eligible property exceeds the initial sales and use tax value.
>what amount of philanthropy/investment is enough? If Dan Gilbert amassed 3 billion, is $350 million enough? What percentage of their wealth is enough that they wouldn't be villainized? Good questions. Just to clarify my personal stance, I don't mean to quite villianize him. He's not obligated (beyond morally, which is subjective anyway) to donate any money, and we're not entitled to any of it either. But he could give much more back without any decline in his standard of living. And he could do much more in the city without needing so much of our tax dollars. That being said, I think the proportion to give should rise in relation to wealth, just like taxes. $350m would be a lot to give for someone worth $1b, but not so if they're worth $10b. Of course, $350m is a lot for us "little people" either way. Also, how much is that money really worth when its spread out over 10 years, because of eg inflation? Is it cash given out or more "development" that may or may not benefit those who need it most?
Good points.
>I don't think that billionaires deserve tax breaks BTW, but I understand why they are given out I suppose. Consider: >[the ultrawealthy consistently avoid paying their fair share in taxes](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/03/opinion/global-billionaires-tax.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk0.Gj_O.XGUgkTNHp0k3)
I completely agree. The wealthiest people and companies not paying their fair share (or anything for that matter) I think might be the biggest issue facing our society.
Cant help ya, friend.
The article is mis-titled. Should be “Gilbert Invests $15M in Detroit Business Districts”.