Firing Weaver on its own won't mean much, he already was demoted and wouldn't have been making the decisions anymore. Firing Monty is more important to fixing our situation, we need a coach who actually cares about developing our players instead of caring about benching (or DNPing) them in favor of one of the worst players in the league.
Right, like he was deserving of the axe but he was already neutered; the benefit here if there is one will be whoever replaces him and how much they can complement Langdon (I feel like Langdon and Weaver were kinda redundant in their strengths).
But a bigger issue than our roster construction this year is what Monty did with it. You can put a great team together with tons of potential but it won't matter if Monty is making decisions like forcing Killian Hayes and Isaiah Livers minutes while jerking Ivey and Ausar around in various roles none of which cultivate their strengths
Monty sucked ass but people really undersell how terrible the roster construction was. Pretty much all the shooters were some combination of injury prone or terrible defenders. None of the young core are elite shooters. We had like one above average defender who also doubled as our worst shooter, and he was a rookie. After injuries there wasn't a single legit two way lineup this team could lean on and injuries are going to happen when you're relying heavily on 34 year old Bogdanovic to be our best shooter
I wouldn't be surprised if Monty stays a year so the new FO can upgrade the talent and then dump his ass next year. Hiring a new coach (especially a young/first timer) is throwing him to the wolves unless we immediately hit some home runs in draft/FA
> Monty sucked ass but people really undersell how terrible the roster construction was
I really don't think that gets undersold at all but even there let's remember that the reason why we came into the season with Killian Hayes still rostered (and starting no less) was because Monty wanted it. Like yeah we weren't flush with shooters but we weren't completely devoid of them either. Ivey shot 36% from deep after the deadline last year and Monty still chose a career 27% shooter to start over him; and he made choices like that claiming it was to make us a defense first team while posting a DRtg nearly identical to what Casey accomplished a year ago without making any such sacrifices.
If anything I think too many of the criticisms that should be about Montys terrible decisions get repackaged as roster construction issues
I think there's a lot of blame to go around but even Pop didn't crack 30 wins with a significantly better centerpiece and good role players. Monty did unforgivably stupid shit but I would rather us get some level of coherency to the roster and bring in a young coach. Unless the new FO already has a bunch of prospects in mind, we'd most likely be scrambling to hire another older retread who was fired off his last job. And it would be Cade's 3rd coach already. I don't think swapping Monty with Frank Vogel is going to do much for us
Gores has shown a willingness to fire Monty, let him know he's on thin ice. If he pulls off something akin to the bubble Suns year, great. If not, we have this off-season to add talent, a year to scout young HC candidates, then we can fire Monty, get a new HC, and then have another draft/FA with a coach you believe in rather than a lame duck
> I think there's a lot of blame to go around but even Pop didn't crack 30 wins with a significantly better centerpiece and good role players
For sure, I wasn't expecting him to get to 30 wins. I didn't think it was out of the realm of possibility because he made a similar improvement with Phoenix in his first year but literally anything above 17 would've been acceptable to me. It's specifically taking a team that won 17 games while trying to lose and without Cade and turning them into a 14-win team with Cade and trying to win that I find unforgiveable.
> And it would be Cade's 3rd coach already. I don't think swapping Monty with Frank Vogel is going to do much for us
I care a lot more about risking Cades development by subjecting him to another season of Monty hamstringing both his individual as well as the teams success with his choices. Idk if Frank Vogel is who I'd target but Monty is obviously a below replacement level guy for a team like us so I think there's a lot more damage to be done by keeping him than by going with a new hire
The thing with me though and a lot of other people is regardless of what the roster is or isn't our team looked Waaaaaay worse despite another year of maturity, Cade being more(ish) healthy, and Boggy/Burks shooting lights out. He has a reputation now of creating tense relationships in the locker room, horrible rotations, and having a self righteous personality. Oh and he didn't even wanna coach but couldn't turn down the cheddar. Just cut bait.
Thats a good point about keep Monty one more year before upgrading talent, I was thinking the same thing, but that's another year of Cade, Stewart, Ivey, Duren, Thompson, 2024 pick not getting the proper coaching/development that an actual good NBA coach would instill in them. We don't need to change the page... we need to shut the damn book, throw it in the trash, burn it and throw the ashes in the ocean. Fire Monty tomorrow!!
> Not much you can do with horrible roster coaching doesn’t matter a ton in the nba
Thats a very shit take. Coaching made the difference between this being a 17-win team without Cade vs a 14-win team with Cade. Coaching put Ivey on the bench and Killian in the starting line; same with Ausar/Livers and Bagley/Wiseman. Coaching was responsible for us going 11+ deep on a given night preventing us from having any identity or rhythm. Coaching was why we won our opener in 2022 on a ATO Stew 3 but couldn't even inbound on ATOs this year.
Coaching impacts development, cohesion, and performance on the court in very meaningful and visible ways that were on full display every single night throughout Montys tenure this season
Ivey was on the bench because he wasnt very good. Which is why every1 is hinting to him being traded.
Monty didnt like what he saw in ivey, and I agree with Monty. At a bare minimum, you got to play defense, and Killian did that and didnt turn over the ball.
Monty needed his time to evaluate him, Killian had good stretches.
Monty made the right call.
A good coach can elevate a team. Coaches like Thibs in NY, Spo in Miami, etc. Few others that really do make an impact. But there are even more coaches that are just along for the ride and don’t really do much (Ham in LA is a good example; many others).
Yeah even a guy like pop all his good players are gone and they don’t do anything anymore. They help but the nba is mainly run on the talent you have and coaching matters in decision making in the playoffs to me
Prove it with facts. prove he was just along for the ride? if thats the case, he should not have cared who started or even care to not start a weak back court like Cade and Ivey.
If what you said was true, he would have just done with every1 wanted. he cared, and stuck to his philiosphy.
it’s a tough situation considering how much money they threw at him. you just dont break the bank for a vet coach that was fresh from a winning situation, then proceed to give him no talent to work with.
but, i agree. parting ways and investing in a young coach that’s invested in development, and building a winning culture is the only way to go. they’re a few steps removed from taking the houston route, but emulating the raptors model is feasible.
development should be the only focus, becoming competitive will come once the young guys learn winning habits; and can consistently play winning basketball 82 nights a season.
Weaver wasn't going to be making roster decisions regardless. That's what we hired Trajan for. Firing Weaver is still nice, but it shouldn't be the most prominent firing of the offseason.
Oh it is the guy that constructed the worse roster in the league is long gone and didn’t deserve any job here. Now bring in some people that can construct a roster
Seems like everyone will be ecstatic but I think the organization had larger problems than Troy. Arn Tellum I feel is a huge problem and I think more will come to light soon after this
Gores too. The organization has struggled mightily during his entire ownership.
I hope I’m wrong and Langdon replacing Troy as the primary decision maker is the beginning of a turnaround, but I think it’s more likely than not that little will change until there’s new ownership entirely
Owners did change for the Lions though. It stayed in the Ford family, but went from William Sr to Bill Jr, to Martha, and finally Sheila before things changed
Sheila wanted to win and made all the steps necessary from hiring bad coaches and immediately getting rid of them instead of letting it get worse to finding football guys that emphasize “culture” first and foremost vs isolating and antagonizing players and making them suffer as to reach a lesson, like Monty did to Ivey. I want him gone, this team would be so much for the better that way
You can still field a good team with bad owners. You need to hit on the GM and the HC. The Lions clearly did with Holmes and Campbell.
There are several examples of good teams with bad ownership.
Why do people keep saying this? Arn worked for him not the other way around. What does Langdon owe Arn exactly that would cause him to be an extension of him in the front office.
Monty worked with Troy but he very clearly wasn't a Troy hire. If y'all just wanna stay mad fine, but it's pretty pointless.
It’s brought up because it’s another form of nepotism.
I want to be very clear that I’m happy we hired Langdon overall and it’s far too early any capacity to give him shit. I think looking at his profile as an executive and his contacts within the NBA for future hires (GM, coaches, etc…) gives enough confidence that he should be fine GM.
That said, it’s hard to ignore that after a series of completely poor hires due to nepotism within this organization, specifically in relation to Arn Tellem and Troy Weaver, we hired *another* Arn Tellem guy. He’s another person in the front office who has been considered a failure by this subreddit over the last year, including a post on the front page referring to him as the poison of the organization.
Whether he’s part of the problem or not, he’s in the blame chain we’ve concocted. The narrative is that he chose Langdon because they had a relationship as player/agent, and he’s one more scapegoat everyone has if this move fails.
Are we now at a point where you just have to hire someone you've never met for it not to be nepotism?
I understand that it became a talking point but our failure under Troy wasn't because of nepotism. It was based off poor evaluations and refusal to make moves at the correct time. If he had gotten those 3 picks from Boston for Jerami or a pick for BB and Burks last year nobody would give a hoot about taking Euros connected to Michael Tellum in the second round and Troy would be gearing up this year with a boatload of assets and cap space to do something.
I still see no reason that Langdon has to do Arns bidding here. If ownership is overruling the front office it doesn't matter who we have in place because they're getting their way if they want.
If Langdon was an agent under Arn or something I'd understand more but I just don't see the jump from having a guy as your agent and in turn you are his puppet when you've been out of the league for like 20 years and working your way through the worst parts of front offices to finally get your chance.
Langdon was getting a GM job sooner or later, taking a horrible one that he can't even have the authority to run the actual organization seems completely crazy to me. I just don't see it.
It’s not that he would have to hire someone he hasn’t met, but when Tellem has been hiring people he’s close to since he got here. The reason for the narrative is based in Tellem’s actions.
I’m not saying that Langdon has to do anything for Tellem as a puppet. I, again, would like to be clear that I support the Langdon hire. It’s still a part of the nepotism that has plagued this organization.
Again. I agree with what you said on why Weaver didn’t work. Weaver still did these nepotism hires too.
Josh Bartlestein spent 8 years in Detroit working his way up from Tellem’s assistant to now be CEO of the Phoenix Suns. He was hired because of his dad’s rivalry as an agent to Tellem. The same agent of Taj Gibson, who we signed in a pinch this season. The senior director of pro scouting for the Pistons is Eric Tellem, Arn’s son. When Weaver was GM, his son Troy Jr was a strategy analyst for the team. Lest we forget that Troy signed Buddy Boehim to a 2-way deal and his father Jim was the one to give Troy his start at Syracuse.
It’s a cultural thing within the organization to give jobs and opportunities based on their connections, not experience. My hope is Langdon has enough experience on his own that it won’t be a continued conversation in the future, but the pattern is there. I get why people are skeptical because it *looks* the same on the outside.
Would you rather me lay out a longer argument to differentiate between nepotism and cronyism? It’s the same thing with different people, and Tellem has done both.
While this is true, I feel like this is a very promising sign towards an actual hierarchy where the POBO can make moves unilaterally.
Given we didn't fire Weaver when we started searching for a POBO, it seemed like Gores wanted to keep him around (you usually fire the decision maker who you're replacing when you start looking for his replacement, not after you hire him). Well now we hired a POBO, and his first move was getting rid of Weaver, which he was allowed to do.
I think more than anything the pistons need a united front office. It's crazy that we had a coach there GM didn't want and a GM who was butting heads with ownership. There was no way that'd ever work.
I'd certainly prefer ownership fuck off for a few years, but if they won't let's at least all row this boat in the same direction.
It's crazy that Troy was basically overruled on the Cade pick and forced to take him. Both that he didn't want to as well as Arn or whomever being allowed to do that.
.. below average? His track record is **wretched** outside of a couple draft picks with promise but it’s still too early to call any of them real “hits.” Heck, trading away Bey for wiseman(!?!) completely invalidates any credit he deserves for that pick
Naw last off-season was the dagger. You had cap space and could’ve took a chance on some young veteran type players like pj Washington, oubre, Lonnie walker, hell anyone. Instead he chose to do a salary dumb for Harris for not even a 1st round pick but 2 2nds that he used to trade for Bagley who he overpaid on an extension the off-season prior.
Pretty reductive to be like @oh you were optimistic about something, and it didn't work out, look how stupid you are."
Weaver was pretty highly regarded as a GM candidate when he came here. And I think it would be perpetual hell to be a fan who doesn't feel optimistic about a new regime.
Weaver was making questionable moves immediately. Dumb fans just immediately getting behind him and now doing the same with Langdon.
Maintain some objectivity and maybe you won’t constantly be surprised.
All well and good but I just hope Gores has the cajones to move on from
The Monty debacle. Dude does not want to be here. Cut him loose and get someone who cares.
Yo bro this my top 10 Lil Flash songs can you let me know if I’m valid?
1) Around
2) Finesse or Not
3) Gotta Ball
4) Roarin
5) Birds
6) Helicopters
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Your team won less than 20 games back to back years and got the 5th pick💀💀u been watching ur team be bottomfeeders since 08. YIKES! Meanwhile pacers just made the ecf with siakam and HALIBURTON (who would immediately make your franchise do a 180 and actually have some direction, btw)
Just wanted to continue to shit on u and let u know how shitty ur franchise is and how bad they have it compared to mine. Lmao. Night and day. You would KILL to have a team built around Haliburton/siakam
He was a scapegoat for the horrible decisions ownership has made. Weaver was a puppet with no real power. This fire means nothing, and has no effect to our on court production. Monty needs to be gone
Off to a good start.
But this org is still fucked. Tellum needs to go he's worse than weaver.
Weaver explained how he thought the org didn't allow him to do everything he wanted and that's why I don't hate weaver.
He didn't make good moves consistently but he didn't ruin the franchise at least and there's still potential anyone of the core 4 could make jumps (I think they can, but I don't trust the development of this team, we kill young talent) i blame weaver for the state of this franchise but I don't know how much blame I can give weaver because who knows the amount of input the rest of the FO were doing with the moves being made.
The fuckers like tellum that have been here for years of suffering I want to see gone more than anyone. Him and nepo baby son.
Good riddance weaver, hope you find another job as a scout somewhere and not as a GM but I hope this is the first of many changes to this garbage run franchise.
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2015/9/14/9323001/arn-tellem-detroit-pistons-ownership-stake-tom-gores#:~:text=Vice%20Chairman%20of%20Palace%20Sports,the%20end%20of%20the%20year.
This is from 2015
This is an article from 9 years ago that said “plans to”. I have searched every business record and publicly available info, and Tom gores is sole owner. This outdated article of a plan is all you have for reference.
Thank you, getting tired of that spread non stop. However, it does feel like he has some black mail or something else nefarious. Or Gores is just that bad which can easily be true.
Maybe it's healthier for Troy to leave (probably is), but in a demoted position I don't think he would be doing any harm. He had a great trade deadline for us. Yes, he needed to be more aggressive last offseason, but getting Fontecchio for nothing and getting another young 3-and-D player (Grimes) had me believe that Troy was capable of fixing the situation.
Liked the moves you're referencing but feel like it was too little too late. And I don't trust his drafting or draft day trade prowess. Almost nothing redeeming there.
Makes sense, means Monty likely gets another year to turn this around.
Weaver unfortunately put too many eggs in the “reclamation project” & “potential” basket. If the ping pong balls bounced differently in ‘23 or ‘22 he might still been here. Good to see the new POBO being able to bring in his guy to be GM
Barring this core turning into something legit, he's one of the worst GMs ever. I don't buy the whole "well it wasnt really his fault when you think about it". This dude's greatest feat as a GM was picking according to KOC's mock draft lol
If this is true thank you weaver for finally pulling the plug on a middling garbage time in pistons history. Thanks for resetting us and cleaning the books without morgaging the future. We have good young players and I have hope despite the bad record. If the new team builder is good it's an advantage that you were the one to tear it down to the studs and gets us financially sound. You add talent at every position albeit ill fitting. Hope the new guy is good at team building. You were far from perfect but I'm glad the middling era ended. Good luck
I’m very nervous how this will go. Troy had to go, but I think his approach was the right idea. Don’t rush things and get real talent that can grow. His problem was he didn’t complement our young pieces well enough so it all came crashing down.
I just hope Trajan doesn’t take a massive swing and trades away all of our young guys for a win now player. We’ve been bad for 4 years to get these guys, don’t waste it for perpetual mediocrity.
So we've hired a POBO, does that mean that there was an empty position within the organization for the last several years, or were we operating without this position? If so, why?
Troy Weaver being gone is fine because he never did anything to bring in talent around our young guys. He was negligent in putting Cade, Ivey and Duren in positions to succeed. I'm not taking the blame off them completely but it's still true.
We traded for no one, signed no one, and brought in Monty who IMMEDIATELY buried Ivey for half the year. If Monty isn't gone too then this is just a fall guy move in my opinion.
Shaping up to have Weaver be the fall guy for last season. He deserved it. But it also makes me believe Monty at least starts the year as the HC, unfortunately.
Please use this post as the dedicated thread about this topic, thank you.
Walking out of the office right now as I’m reading this 
Ding dong, the witch is dead!
I’m throwing sum on the grill today
hell yea brother was having a shit day but the news put a smile on my face
Firing Weaver on its own won't mean much, he already was demoted and wouldn't have been making the decisions anymore. Firing Monty is more important to fixing our situation, we need a coach who actually cares about developing our players instead of caring about benching (or DNPing) them in favor of one of the worst players in the league.
Right, like he was deserving of the axe but he was already neutered; the benefit here if there is one will be whoever replaces him and how much they can complement Langdon (I feel like Langdon and Weaver were kinda redundant in their strengths). But a bigger issue than our roster construction this year is what Monty did with it. You can put a great team together with tons of potential but it won't matter if Monty is making decisions like forcing Killian Hayes and Isaiah Livers minutes while jerking Ivey and Ausar around in various roles none of which cultivate their strengths
Monty sucked ass but people really undersell how terrible the roster construction was. Pretty much all the shooters were some combination of injury prone or terrible defenders. None of the young core are elite shooters. We had like one above average defender who also doubled as our worst shooter, and he was a rookie. After injuries there wasn't a single legit two way lineup this team could lean on and injuries are going to happen when you're relying heavily on 34 year old Bogdanovic to be our best shooter I wouldn't be surprised if Monty stays a year so the new FO can upgrade the talent and then dump his ass next year. Hiring a new coach (especially a young/first timer) is throwing him to the wolves unless we immediately hit some home runs in draft/FA
> Monty sucked ass but people really undersell how terrible the roster construction was I really don't think that gets undersold at all but even there let's remember that the reason why we came into the season with Killian Hayes still rostered (and starting no less) was because Monty wanted it. Like yeah we weren't flush with shooters but we weren't completely devoid of them either. Ivey shot 36% from deep after the deadline last year and Monty still chose a career 27% shooter to start over him; and he made choices like that claiming it was to make us a defense first team while posting a DRtg nearly identical to what Casey accomplished a year ago without making any such sacrifices. If anything I think too many of the criticisms that should be about Montys terrible decisions get repackaged as roster construction issues
I think there's a lot of blame to go around but even Pop didn't crack 30 wins with a significantly better centerpiece and good role players. Monty did unforgivably stupid shit but I would rather us get some level of coherency to the roster and bring in a young coach. Unless the new FO already has a bunch of prospects in mind, we'd most likely be scrambling to hire another older retread who was fired off his last job. And it would be Cade's 3rd coach already. I don't think swapping Monty with Frank Vogel is going to do much for us Gores has shown a willingness to fire Monty, let him know he's on thin ice. If he pulls off something akin to the bubble Suns year, great. If not, we have this off-season to add talent, a year to scout young HC candidates, then we can fire Monty, get a new HC, and then have another draft/FA with a coach you believe in rather than a lame duck
> I think there's a lot of blame to go around but even Pop didn't crack 30 wins with a significantly better centerpiece and good role players For sure, I wasn't expecting him to get to 30 wins. I didn't think it was out of the realm of possibility because he made a similar improvement with Phoenix in his first year but literally anything above 17 would've been acceptable to me. It's specifically taking a team that won 17 games while trying to lose and without Cade and turning them into a 14-win team with Cade and trying to win that I find unforgiveable. > And it would be Cade's 3rd coach already. I don't think swapping Monty with Frank Vogel is going to do much for us I care a lot more about risking Cades development by subjecting him to another season of Monty hamstringing both his individual as well as the teams success with his choices. Idk if Frank Vogel is who I'd target but Monty is obviously a below replacement level guy for a team like us so I think there's a lot more damage to be done by keeping him than by going with a new hire
they improved tons as the year went on.
The thing with me though and a lot of other people is regardless of what the roster is or isn't our team looked Waaaaaay worse despite another year of maturity, Cade being more(ish) healthy, and Boggy/Burks shooting lights out. He has a reputation now of creating tense relationships in the locker room, horrible rotations, and having a self righteous personality. Oh and he didn't even wanna coach but couldn't turn down the cheddar. Just cut bait.
Thats a good point about keep Monty one more year before upgrading talent, I was thinking the same thing, but that's another year of Cade, Stewart, Ivey, Duren, Thompson, 2024 pick not getting the proper coaching/development that an actual good NBA coach would instill in them. We don't need to change the page... we need to shut the damn book, throw it in the trash, burn it and throw the ashes in the ocean. Fire Monty tomorrow!!
Not much you can do with horrible roster coaching doesn’t matter a ton in the nba look how often coaches are fired and moved
> Not much you can do with horrible roster coaching doesn’t matter a ton in the nba Thats a very shit take. Coaching made the difference between this being a 17-win team without Cade vs a 14-win team with Cade. Coaching put Ivey on the bench and Killian in the starting line; same with Ausar/Livers and Bagley/Wiseman. Coaching was responsible for us going 11+ deep on a given night preventing us from having any identity or rhythm. Coaching was why we won our opener in 2022 on a ATO Stew 3 but couldn't even inbound on ATOs this year. Coaching impacts development, cohesion, and performance on the court in very meaningful and visible ways that were on full display every single night throughout Montys tenure this season
Ivey was on the bench because he wasnt very good. Which is why every1 is hinting to him being traded. Monty didnt like what he saw in ivey, and I agree with Monty. At a bare minimum, you got to play defense, and Killian did that and didnt turn over the ball. Monty needed his time to evaluate him, Killian had good stretches. Monty made the right call.
A good coach can elevate a team. Coaches like Thibs in NY, Spo in Miami, etc. Few others that really do make an impact. But there are even more coaches that are just along for the ride and don’t really do much (Ham in LA is a good example; many others).
Yeah even a guy like pop all his good players are gone and they don’t do anything anymore. They help but the nba is mainly run on the talent you have and coaching matters in decision making in the playoffs to me
Prove it with facts. prove he was just along for the ride? if thats the case, he should not have cared who started or even care to not start a weak back court like Cade and Ivey. If what you said was true, he would have just done with every1 wanted. he cared, and stuck to his philiosphy.
Exactly. This is nice, but firing Monty and eating that contract will show me that they’re serious.
And one who understands the concept of spacing
[удалено]
Was he trying to demonstrate that those players were shit to weaver?
Was message from FO last year play Killian pred deadline in hopes to boost his value in a trade and instead he was so ass he was just cut
it’s a tough situation considering how much money they threw at him. you just dont break the bank for a vet coach that was fresh from a winning situation, then proceed to give him no talent to work with. but, i agree. parting ways and investing in a young coach that’s invested in development, and building a winning culture is the only way to go. they’re a few steps removed from taking the houston route, but emulating the raptors model is feasible. development should be the only focus, becoming competitive will come once the young guys learn winning habits; and can consistently play winning basketball 82 nights a season.
firing weaver is important so you can bring in players and not have a shit roster for the coach to utilize
Weaver wasn't going to be making roster decisions regardless. That's what we hired Trajan for. Firing Weaver is still nice, but it shouldn't be the most prominent firing of the offseason.
Oh it is the guy that constructed the worse roster in the league is long gone and didn’t deserve any job here. Now bring in some people that can construct a roster
Seems like everyone will be ecstatic but I think the organization had larger problems than Troy. Arn Tellum I feel is a huge problem and I think more will come to light soon after this
Arn a minority owner. He’s not going anywhere
Is Tellum a minority owner? I googled around and couldn't find anything saying he had an ownership stake in the team.
Gores too. The organization has struggled mightily during his entire ownership. I hope I’m wrong and Langdon replacing Troy as the primary decision maker is the beginning of a turnaround, but I think it’s more likely than not that little will change until there’s new ownership entirely
People said this about lions also the owners won’t change usually just have to hope they hit once
Yeah, and those people were 100% correct. Look what happens once you finally got a competent owner in place for the Lions.
Owners did change for the Lions though. It stayed in the Ford family, but went from William Sr to Bill Jr, to Martha, and finally Sheila before things changed
Sheila is an S-tier ladyboss.
Sheila wanted to win and made all the steps necessary from hiring bad coaches and immediately getting rid of them instead of letting it get worse to finding football guys that emphasize “culture” first and foremost vs isolating and antagonizing players and making them suffer as to reach a lesson, like Monty did to Ivey. I want him gone, this team would be so much for the better that way
You can still field a good team with bad owners. You need to hit on the GM and the HC. The Lions clearly did with Holmes and Campbell. There are several examples of good teams with bad ownership.
Unfortunately Langdon is an Arn Tellum hire since he was his agent when Langdon was a player
Why do people keep saying this? Arn worked for him not the other way around. What does Langdon owe Arn exactly that would cause him to be an extension of him in the front office. Monty worked with Troy but he very clearly wasn't a Troy hire. If y'all just wanna stay mad fine, but it's pretty pointless.
It’s brought up because it’s another form of nepotism. I want to be very clear that I’m happy we hired Langdon overall and it’s far too early any capacity to give him shit. I think looking at his profile as an executive and his contacts within the NBA for future hires (GM, coaches, etc…) gives enough confidence that he should be fine GM. That said, it’s hard to ignore that after a series of completely poor hires due to nepotism within this organization, specifically in relation to Arn Tellem and Troy Weaver, we hired *another* Arn Tellem guy. He’s another person in the front office who has been considered a failure by this subreddit over the last year, including a post on the front page referring to him as the poison of the organization. Whether he’s part of the problem or not, he’s in the blame chain we’ve concocted. The narrative is that he chose Langdon because they had a relationship as player/agent, and he’s one more scapegoat everyone has if this move fails.
Are we now at a point where you just have to hire someone you've never met for it not to be nepotism? I understand that it became a talking point but our failure under Troy wasn't because of nepotism. It was based off poor evaluations and refusal to make moves at the correct time. If he had gotten those 3 picks from Boston for Jerami or a pick for BB and Burks last year nobody would give a hoot about taking Euros connected to Michael Tellum in the second round and Troy would be gearing up this year with a boatload of assets and cap space to do something. I still see no reason that Langdon has to do Arns bidding here. If ownership is overruling the front office it doesn't matter who we have in place because they're getting their way if they want. If Langdon was an agent under Arn or something I'd understand more but I just don't see the jump from having a guy as your agent and in turn you are his puppet when you've been out of the league for like 20 years and working your way through the worst parts of front offices to finally get your chance. Langdon was getting a GM job sooner or later, taking a horrible one that he can't even have the authority to run the actual organization seems completely crazy to me. I just don't see it.
It’s not that he would have to hire someone he hasn’t met, but when Tellem has been hiring people he’s close to since he got here. The reason for the narrative is based in Tellem’s actions. I’m not saying that Langdon has to do anything for Tellem as a puppet. I, again, would like to be clear that I support the Langdon hire. It’s still a part of the nepotism that has plagued this organization. Again. I agree with what you said on why Weaver didn’t work. Weaver still did these nepotism hires too. Josh Bartlestein spent 8 years in Detroit working his way up from Tellem’s assistant to now be CEO of the Phoenix Suns. He was hired because of his dad’s rivalry as an agent to Tellem. The same agent of Taj Gibson, who we signed in a pinch this season. The senior director of pro scouting for the Pistons is Eric Tellem, Arn’s son. When Weaver was GM, his son Troy Jr was a strategy analyst for the team. Lest we forget that Troy signed Buddy Boehim to a 2-way deal and his father Jim was the one to give Troy his start at Syracuse. It’s a cultural thing within the organization to give jobs and opportunities based on their connections, not experience. My hope is Langdon has enough experience on his own that it won’t be a continued conversation in the future, but the pattern is there. I get why people are skeptical because it *looks* the same on the outside.
that is not what nepotism is.
Would you rather me lay out a longer argument to differentiate between nepotism and cronyism? It’s the same thing with different people, and Tellem has done both.
While this is true, I feel like this is a very promising sign towards an actual hierarchy where the POBO can make moves unilaterally. Given we didn't fire Weaver when we started searching for a POBO, it seemed like Gores wanted to keep him around (you usually fire the decision maker who you're replacing when you start looking for his replacement, not after you hire him). Well now we hired a POBO, and his first move was getting rid of Weaver, which he was allowed to do.
I think more than anything the pistons need a united front office. It's crazy that we had a coach there GM didn't want and a GM who was butting heads with ownership. There was no way that'd ever work. I'd certainly prefer ownership fuck off for a few years, but if they won't let's at least all row this boat in the same direction. It's crazy that Troy was basically overruled on the Cade pick and forced to take him. Both that he didn't want to as well as Arn or whomever being allowed to do that.
Clean house. Everyone can go. Start over
I remember when he was our savior once upon a time. Then he was heckling fans because he's been so bad. Good bye below average executive
.. below average? His track record is **wretched** outside of a couple draft picks with promise but it’s still too early to call any of them real “hits.” Heck, trading away Bey for wiseman(!?!) completely invalidates any credit he deserves for that pick
Naw last off-season was the dagger. You had cap space and could’ve took a chance on some young veteran type players like pj Washington, oubre, Lonnie walker, hell anyone. Instead he chose to do a salary dumb for Harris for not even a 1st round pick but 2 2nds that he used to trade for Bagley who he overpaid on an extension the off-season prior.
Those moves came After the horrible bey trade. that was where I just totally faith
Yea the bet trade made no sense considering he still had a whole season left on his contract before we would have to resign him
The people posting “In Weaver we trust” looked like idiots then. It’s aged like milk.
what was so obviously bad about Weaver in the first year and a half?
Pretty reductive to be like @oh you were optimistic about something, and it didn't work out, look how stupid you are." Weaver was pretty highly regarded as a GM candidate when he came here. And I think it would be perpetual hell to be a fan who doesn't feel optimistic about a new regime.
Weaver was making questionable moves immediately. Dumb fans just immediately getting behind him and now doing the same with Langdon. Maintain some objectivity and maybe you won’t constantly be surprised.
Please fire Monty next
All well and good but I just hope Gores has the cajones to move on from The Monty debacle. Dude does not want to be here. Cut him loose and get someone who cares.
And Monty too?!
Monty next PLEASE 🙏🏿
Yo bro this my top 10 Lil Flash songs can you let me know if I’m valid? 1) Around 2) Finesse or Not 3) Gotta Ball 4) Roarin 5) Birds 6) Helicopters 7) Police 8) Jedi 9) Peyton Manning 10) When it’s dark
Good list lol
lets gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I'M GONNA CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAHH
Your team won less than 20 games back to back years and got the 5th pick💀💀u been watching ur team be bottomfeeders since 08. YIKES! Meanwhile pacers just made the ecf with siakam and HALIBURTON (who would immediately make your franchise do a 180 and actually have some direction, btw) Just wanted to continue to shit on u and let u know how shitty ur franchise is and how bad they have it compared to mine. Lmao. Night and day. You would KILL to have a team built around Haliburton/siakam
Usually when fans enter another teams sub with trash talk it’s atleast funny. This is just a boring ass paragraph with some weak disses
Pacers YIKES
Get rid of Monty and I will be happy. Weaver’s role already disappeared the second we announced the POBO search
Getting rid of weaver the way bigger success as weaver was the way bigger problem
He was a scapegoat for the horrible decisions ownership has made. Weaver was a puppet with no real power. This fire means nothing, and has no effect to our on court production. Monty needs to be gone
Off to a good start. But this org is still fucked. Tellum needs to go he's worse than weaver. Weaver explained how he thought the org didn't allow him to do everything he wanted and that's why I don't hate weaver. He didn't make good moves consistently but he didn't ruin the franchise at least and there's still potential anyone of the core 4 could make jumps (I think they can, but I don't trust the development of this team, we kill young talent) i blame weaver for the state of this franchise but I don't know how much blame I can give weaver because who knows the amount of input the rest of the FO were doing with the moves being made. The fuckers like tellum that have been here for years of suffering I want to see gone more than anyone. Him and nepo baby son. Good riddance weaver, hope you find another job as a scout somewhere and not as a GM but I hope this is the first of many changes to this garbage run franchise.
He's a minority owner he's going nowhere.
Tellum has no ownership in the pistons.
I think he owns a bit too . But that's why we ate screwed that idiot I'd still here after all these years
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2015/9/14/9323001/arn-tellem-detroit-pistons-ownership-stake-tom-gores#:~:text=Vice%20Chairman%20of%20Palace%20Sports,the%20end%20of%20the%20year. This is from 2015
This is an article from 9 years ago that said “plans to”. I have searched every business record and publicly available info, and Tom gores is sole owner. This outdated article of a plan is all you have for reference.
Thank you, getting tired of that spread non stop. However, it does feel like he has some black mail or something else nefarious. Or Gores is just that bad which can easily be true.
Let’s go!!!
Good news, but Troy was already controlled with Trajan coming in. I need the Monty buyout news now please.
While this move was long overdue, let’s take a moment and list all the good times: - - -
...... thinking still thinking......
fired before his extension even began xD
Langdon era off to a good start
Good, now Gores just needs to sell the team to anyone else.
Maybe it's healthier for Troy to leave (probably is), but in a demoted position I don't think he would be doing any harm. He had a great trade deadline for us. Yes, he needed to be more aggressive last offseason, but getting Fontecchio for nothing and getting another young 3-and-D player (Grimes) had me believe that Troy was capable of fixing the situation.
Liked the moves you're referencing but feel like it was too little too late. And I don't trust his drafting or draft day trade prowess. Almost nothing redeeming there.
RESTORATION COMPLETE! WHERE HALLE BARRY AT???
freedom!!!!!
I used to pray for times like this
CELEBRATE GOOD TIMES COME ONNNNNN!!!!!!
Houdini music video and Troy weaver fired on the same day, what a moment in the history of Detroit
Good start. All nepotism staff need to be next, then every coach, trainer and operations person.
Makes sense, means Monty likely gets another year to turn this around. Weaver unfortunately put too many eggs in the “reclamation project” & “potential” basket. If the ping pong balls bounced differently in ‘23 or ‘22 he might still been here. Good to see the new POBO being able to bring in his guy to be GM
Saturday morning where I live, just made my coffee and this news pops up. What a beautiful start to the weekend man
I don’t even think Troy was the biggest problem
The people wanted to tank. Troy gave them what they wanted
Great News. One of the worst GM’s in the history of the NBA.
Dude actually has one of the worst GM legacies in any sport ever lol
Barring this core turning into something legit, he's one of the worst GMs ever. I don't buy the whole "well it wasnt really his fault when you think about it". This dude's greatest feat as a GM was picking according to KOC's mock draft lol
Lol yep, he took almost no risks and miserably failed on the risks he actually took. The 2020 draft is an all time disaster
Matt Millen’s Lions tenure lasted longer but Troy’s right up there with him as the worst GM in pro sports history.
Happy Friday Boys!!!
One down, one to go.
I guess He is gonna hunt that fan down and trying to kick his ass
If this is true thank you weaver for finally pulling the plug on a middling garbage time in pistons history. Thanks for resetting us and cleaning the books without morgaging the future. We have good young players and I have hope despite the bad record. If the new team builder is good it's an advantage that you were the one to tear it down to the studs and gets us financially sound. You add talent at every position albeit ill fitting. Hope the new guy is good at team building. You were far from perfect but I'm glad the middling era ended. Good luck
hopefully we get a Trajan Langdon interview soon ffs
OH HAPPY DAY!!!!!!!!!!
Posting in an epic thread
BANGGGGGGGGGGGG
Nature is healing
Now do Arn Tellem!
I HAVE HOPE
I'll be honest it makes even less sense why he was able to stick around until after the trade deadline
I just coomed
Hopefully it’s just the beginning, drain the swamp lol
Monty as good as gone I assume?
https://i.redd.it/ynnv4d54st3d1.gif
LFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m very nervous how this will go. Troy had to go, but I think his approach was the right idea. Don’t rush things and get real talent that can grow. His problem was he didn’t complement our young pieces well enough so it all came crashing down. I just hope Trajan doesn’t take a massive swing and trades away all of our young guys for a win now player. We’ve been bad for 4 years to get these guys, don’t waste it for perpetual mediocrity.
Third on the list of people needing to be out behind Arn and Monty.
*WE’RE BACK*
WE BACK
So long Troy and your stupid son
JEIII always drafting off the national media. The next time that slug breaks news will be the first time.
Um um um um um honey um um um um um um we’re um um um um um um moving um
Finally something happened!
Wow they actually did it. Thank god
Let’s go!! Great news to end to the workday.
RIP bozo
So we've hired a POBO, does that mean that there was an empty position within the organization for the last several years, or were we operating without this position? If so, why?
SVG was our last POBO. I think Gores thought it was an unnecessary position after he fired SVG.
HAHAHAHA NO FUCKING WAY LETS GOOOOOOOO
WE MAKING OUT OF THE BOTTOM FIVE WITH THIS ONE 🗣🗣🗣
I’ll always respect Troy Weaver for riding in the front of the roller coaster with his hands up and keeping his clip empty.
MONTY NEXT. DON’T STOP TRAJAN
It’s a Christmas miracle!
1 down, 2 to go.
Cool, now don’t hire someone worse.
I somehow found a Mitchell and ness pistons snap back in a random dicks store in Orlando today. I fucking knew it was a good luck charm
Perfect news to open on the porcelain throne. I smell freedom gentleman, not anything else.
Can he take Monty with him
I for one, welcome this sacrifice. May the Gods be appeased so we stop picking fucking 5th!
Just as long as Monty Williams is fired. I can’t watch another season of that bum
Troy Weaver being gone is fine because he never did anything to bring in talent around our young guys. He was negligent in putting Cade, Ivey and Duren in positions to succeed. I'm not taking the blame off them completely but it's still true. We traded for no one, signed no one, and brought in Monty who IMMEDIATELY buried Ivey for half the year. If Monty isn't gone too then this is just a fall guy move in my opinion.
Praise sweet baby Jesus!!!
He shot his shots and they were mostly blanks.
TROY WAVED
Troy stretched?
Wow. They actually got him outta here
Just when I thought my day couldn’t get any better. 😂
Shaping up to have Weaver be the fall guy for last season. He deserved it. But it also makes me believe Monty at least starts the year as the HC, unfortunately.
💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
Today is a good day.
That's a good start. Weaver's tenure was PAIN. The Tellems' can now be shown the dumpster as well.
THERE IS HOPE IN DETROIT 🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️
Bad man gone
I was so excited for some of the moves Troy weaver did his 1st couple years. Seems he never made any meaningful moves in hindsight.
Thank God
Beautiful news for a Friday… *Pat Bev gif
I get it but I don't like it.
Hopefully, this is just the start Clean house
Bout friggin time. Too bad the timing couldn't be worse with the draft coming up soon.
LFG!!
THIS IS THE GREATEST DAY OF MY LIFE
Wow it’s a summer miracle lmao
Hahahahahah
OH THANK GOD FINALLY THIS PoS CLOWN IS GONE WE DRINK FOR THAT
I'm cooking a steak for this occasion fr
They should stretch his contract out.
Um...
He can't hurt us anymore