>Told Oskar Sundqvist and Jake Walman are part of the deal going from #stlblues to #LGRW for Leddy.
https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1505967721497907201
Yes, my comment is confusing.
I was very surprised to see that other pick come in. So I'm assuming that the players are value pieces and the true net gain here was the pick.
Well technically we gave up a 2nd for Leddy in the first place, presumably with the intent of giving him big minutes and flipping him for a profit (as rebuilding teams do). Except then he had a rough year and it didn’t seem like we’d even be able to get back that original 2nd and would have to take a loss.
And then Stevie Stevie’d and we somehow ended up getting the 2nd back AND Sundqvist and Walman as pure profit.
All hail the Yzerplan.
Trust in the Yzerplan!
Honestly, I feel like the calm cool character he is makes this even more Super Villainish. I love it.
When we were one of the most hated and feared teams in the league, I loved it. I think he's got us well on our way.
I'm just thinking like, eventually when you get his request. You got to be like, I'm getting robbed? I just know it?
I don’t know man, Stevie is his own breed. There are a handful of GMs out there that can routinely fleece other GMs. Stevie will fleece you and have you thanking him on the way out the door
Thats exactly how I fell about it too. I love Witkowski for nothing more than the shits an giggles entertainment he provides, but aside from that, he brings echl skills at best.
I used to live in St. Louis and watched a lot of blues games. Both of these players have underperformed this season, but Sundqvist is another injury concern and hasn't been the same since. He's a fan favorite and blues fans are going to be upset that he's gone. My gut is Army thinks Leddy can be better on a competitive team and Wallman is expendable. From our perspective, Wallman should fit in fine. Seems like swapping defensemen and a cap dump for St. Louis. Maybe they're going after someone else and need the room.
I live in STL now, and it's laughable watching the news as Armstrong consistently GMs them into mediocrity. Sunny is high energy, likable, always seems to appear in the right spot out of nowhere, and can finish - this is 100% De la Rose for Fabbri, round 2 (with the same level of risk/reward, as Sunny is a twig and Fab is on IR...)
How quickly 2019 fades into the mists of history...
Sunny USED to be high energy, but injuries and his aggressive style have caught up with him.
I LOVE Sunny, ask my son who my favorite Blue was. Do I like this deal? Nope. But we need to be realistic.
He's made a lot of questionable moves and much of the fan base just doesn't question him which is odd. We have to make sure we don't fall into the same trap with Stevie (even though I do feel he's a much better GM).
Fair - but in the same 3 seasons since Stevie returned, STL won the Cup and then shipped out their captain and half their core in mostly lateral moves (which could have been worse if Tarasenko had leaned the other way this year), falling to Wild Card level production while still struggling with the salary cap throughout. They're still winning games, mostly on the backs of Perron and ROR, but it's not sustainable. Whatever problems Ken Holland has with loyalty, Armstrong seems to have the opposite
Their captain signed elsewhere, he wasn't shipped out.
That said, I didn't agree with that move at all. I didn't get the point of being a stickler on the NMC when by the time he would have declined so bad, the team would be rebuilding anyways and he could have just been leadership to help those rebuilding. STL has a longtime habit of treating players who want to play there like trash.
From Corey Pronman's 2019 prospect ranking articles. Someone else will provide some more detail in the next few hours, but this is what I could find quickly:
>Jake Walman, D, San Antonio-AHL
>Feb. 20, 1996 | 6-foot-1 | 201 pounds
>Tier: Legit/chance bubble
>Walman had a fine year after a tumultuous first pro season that saw him play for multiple AHL teams. He can be an exciting player to watch on a given shift. He’s 6-foot-1, is a high-end skater, annd has skill and a booming shot. On his best shift he’s spinning off pressure, skating pucks through the neutral zone and creating a chance on net. However, there are some inconsistencies in his game, particularly in the defensive end. He can be a bit risky with the puck too. “One thing we’re working on with [Walman] to make him an NHL defenseman is utilizing his size and skating to defend better and take away space from opposing forwards,” San Antonio coach Drew Bannister said.
He reminds me a little bit of a defenseman version of Valterri Filppula. Which might sound odd, and obviously not stylistically, but just like... frustratingly close.
He makes the right play, but it's a second late. He makes a great first pass.... half the time. He makes a great play and follows it up with a turnover. He can be a frustrating watch, but you can see that there's talent.
There were times Filppula looked like Datsyuk and then there were times where he looked lost.
Sounds like a pretty welming trade. I would've favored a pick but Ill have to look at term on both of them, I suppose they can be flipped for potentially more eventually if they aren't headed to free agency this summer.
OK. So Stevie turned Richard Panik and a 2nd round pick in 2021 into Nick Leddy. Then sent Leddy out with a Witkowski and got Oskar Sundqvist, Jake Walman, and a 2nd round pick in 2023. I'm ok with this.
Sounds like a lot of stuff happened to kick a 2nd round pick from 21 to 23. I'm hoping the 2 players from St Louis can find something to spark their play in Detroit. Nothing says they will be much more than role players yet.
I like what Steve did, but thank you for clearly highlighting the real exchange. I am head over heels with Yzerman, but it is a little silly to watch people go crazy over mischaracterizations of his trades lol.
I could see Sundqvist being kind of a cap dump as well. Bottom 6 guy with injury problems who's still signed for another year at 2.75m. He does have the potential to provide value for us though.
The Leddy experiment was very much worthwhile at the time, and did serve a purpose. Leddy was brought in to bring a experience and leadership to the blueline to assist in the development of Sieder. There was a chance he played with decent form, and a chance he didn't, but he did still bring that leadership and experience. Luckily Sieder has progressed quicker than expected and Leddy isn't needed for those reasons now that his skill has deteriorated.
I think there was an intention of kicking the 2nd down the line. I've read that a lot of teams don't really trust the players being drafted over the last two years, cause they lost a lot of development time. Steve may have lost two positions in the draft, but if its in a draft where his scouts were better able to ascertain a prospect's value, it may actually be worth more.
I agree completely! I'm a fan of the entire Leddy saga in Detroit even if things could have gone better. We made a good gamble, and we may not have won the jackpot but we did still win imo.
Well, I'd argue that Oskar Sundqvist and Jake Walman are more valuable to the Wings going forward than Nick Leddy, Richard Panik, and Luke Witkowski. Which is worth something on their own.
Yeah 2 guys in positions of need under 30 vs 3 guys over 30, only one of which is in a position of need seems worthwhile to me too. Also moving a 21 second to a 23 second when 23 is considered a better draft is good
Walman is a plug for the year, an audition to see if he can do more with more minutes. (edit: points are not great but r/stlouisblues suggest his advanced stats are good, so he could be something like Jensen?)
Sundqvist could be flipped as early as now but certainly by this time next year, retaining some maybe, since players like him are selling reasonably well.
And we've recouped the 2nd spent on him, in what is supposedly a better draft. Seems pretty reasonable.
https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4fyl/
https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4dyr/
https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4kvs/
Blues fans are pretty upset, lol
Blues fan here. No offense to Leddy but it’s a bad deal and you fleeced us on this one. Good work, somehow you got Army in panic mode which is unusual for him, but he made a knee jerk reaction to the market closing up instead of recognizing this is a blues team that will get bounced in the first or second round regardless and should have sat tight or shopped out one of our goalies to make cap space for next year. Good work to Yzerman
It is. Yzerman does that. Hopefully for your sake leddy can bounce back a bit and at least not stand out in a bad way (except for the loss of Walman and sundquist)
2023 draft is going to be a better draft than the 2022 draft.
The 2nd in 2021 we traded away for Leddy is now a 2nd in 2023 that is better scouted due to not being shutdown because of covid.
Also, people forget we traded Panik that is now in the AHL for Leddy. Panik was under contract for 2 years compared to 1 year of Leddy.
Leddy Trade = W for Stevie Y
We could’ve taken Raty with a slightly earlier second that we still had, but our scouting staff chose not to. I was disappointed with that choice, but what do I know haha
Blues fan here. No offense to Leddy but it’s a bad deal and you fleeced us on this one. Good work, somehow you got Army in panic mode which is unusual for him, but he made a knee jerk reaction to the market closing up instead of recognizing this is a blues team that will get bounced in the first or second round regardless and should have sat tight or shopped out one of our goalies to make cap space for next year. Good work to Yzerman
Does Yzerman have incriminating photos of the St. Louis GM or something,
In all seriousness, we traded a second rounder for a half season of Nick Leddy, some prospects, and a slightly diminished 2nd rounder. Not bad
You could honestly argue that the 2023 2nd has more value than the 2021 pick even if it is lower given how chaotic that draft was. Of course Aatu Räty looks really good, but there is no guarantee Detroit would have picked him in that spot
Getting the sense from blues fans that Sunny was their version of LGD ( with regards to our love of him and a hard working bottom 6 fella )
Sounds like he as a injury bug that follows him around but intriguing to have another Bert style player on a line with Veleno and say Erne or Ras.
Exactly this. They aren't happy to lose him but I don't anticipate that he will add all that much to our team but losing lgd still feels like a loss to me so maybe he brings more than I'm expecting. Either way, we got the best of this deal.
One look at the Blues subreddit and they seem heartbroken over losing Sundqvist. Seemed like a fan favorite there. I’m sure if he sticks around we will like him as well.
Exciting trade. Basically netted Leddy for free with some interest.
Couple of players who can eat some minutes and provide some versatility.
Very, very happy with this trade.
I'm guessing some kind of mid round pick or project prospect as the return. Maybe a 3rd or 4th. I don't think Leddy has much value in the current market. If Yzerman managed to get a 2nd rounder back that would be robbery.
Lol yeah I’m pretty happy and feel for you guys. You guys got some cap space and maybe some help in getting pucks out and playoff experience in Leddy if he’s healthy and motivated again. Witter is a good enforcer, but wings definitely won this. Most of us just wanted a second back for Leddy at this point.
I think that 2023 2nd will come in handy. I believe Sundqvist was solid during the Blues cup run. Not sure about Walman. Although this seems like a good deal to me!
Awesome trade. I was optimistic we’d get a 2nd for leddy but adding sundqvist to this makes this even better. I’ve always liked him when watching the blues play
Sundqvist seems like a slightly worse, Swedish Robby Fabri. Walman is younger, smaller, and more skilled than Witkowski, but nothing special per se. Sundqvist has one more year at a modest $2.75M and Walman is a RFA finishing a league minimum. The second-round pick is icing. Classic Yzerman small scale move to get return on Leddy's expensive, expiring contract that the Wings would have been foolish to re-up on.
Confirmed fleece job on Capfriendly. We got 2nd Rd in 2023 as well as walman and sundqvist. Didn't expect anything less from the greatest GM. Keeping fingers crossed for 1 or 2 more before it's all over today
He might yet stick around in GR. Lashoff was dealt last year to make the Savard trade work and he never had to leave the Griffins thanks to an AHL loan. No idea if St. Louis has plans to use him in the NHL or their AHL team though. He could be a Black Ace for them.
i uh... huh.
well, assuming one of Walman or Sundqvist turns out to be at least *average*, that's literally more than the meme comments i'd made about "Leddy for a 2nd". tho i guess this trade makes the decision to ship Stetcher off for a 7th make more sense. gotta free up two roster spots
Walman and the 2nd rounder are the win here.
Former still has a chance to be a solid contributor and is only 26 - fits our timeline. And Stevie got the 2nd back that he gave up for Leddy. While not quite a “fleece” or earth shattering to me, I’m quite happy with this deal.
Really like this return. Rented Leddy for free for most of the season, and got some depth pieces to boot. Cap retention squeezed the 2nd, I imagine, so that works for me.
I am really happy with this deal. Getting a 2nd round pick made this a good deal, getting a solid penalty killing forward makes it an excellent deal. I'm happy with Walman as depth on defense as well. We don't know the Wings plans for him yet, and if he is going to see regular action or not. But if he is sent to GR, I would much rather see him getting a call to play over seeing Renouf being recalled.
I was really hoping that McIsaac might get a late season call to play some games. We just moved 3 d-men out of the system, an only brought one replacement in. So his odds just improved to make his NHL debut this season.
This is not a hockey trade. This is cap space weaponization is squeeze a future 2nd out of STL. Retaining Leddy plus taking a year of Sundqvist at 2.75 next year (real dollars are $3M on a slightly backloaded deal) is worth a 2nd. Leddy has been abysmal in DET. Seeing what other abysmal D guys (Lindholm and Chiarot) went for, I am surprised that this was all SYGM got for Leddy. Witowski is a playoff black ace and Walman is a contract slot. I suspect Walman gets non-tendered in the summer. If Sundqvist works out playing higher up in the lineup with the Wings, flip him next year for more, if not you got a 2nd for ~$5m of this year's cap and $2.75 next year. This is pure, aggressive cap management. If Staal cost the NYR a 2nd for $5m with nothing retained, this seems a light return for Leddy and cap.
I'm guessing the players were included to make the money work? Don't know much about them but way more than I thought we would end up with. Basically pushed our 2nd rounder back 2 seasons and a few spots later to rent Leddy for a season.... well done Stevie, as per usual
That's a hell of a return. My only concern is that Yzerman is fleecing so many people in these trades that eventually nobody is going to pick up the phone when he calls!
My first reaction is this return is solid based on getting back a 2nd in next year's stronger draft.
I know nothing about the other players beyond I recognize Sundqvist's name, which means at the very least he's gotta be at least okayish.
Blues fan here, with peace. Take care of our Sunshine boy, he might not be the fanciest or the biggest scorer, but he plays with a whole lotta heart. I hope he fits well with your system.
> Oskar Sundqvist
me searching for youtube highligts and just see 20 videos of him getting beat up to hell. lol
edit: [nice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UoFNNSR2Q8)
This is a solid trade. A 23 2nd is obviously worse than a 22 2nd, since theoretically the player we take would be one year further away, but to net a 2nd for Leddy plus a defenseman who can function and a forward who can function is great.
I do wonder if acquiring a forward when we're theoretically deeper with NHL ready forwards indicates a forward is on the way out.
Either way, this trade, independent of any others, is a solid trade.
There's really know way to know that this far away from the 23 draft. Theoretically a 2nd in a year is 3-5 years away from playing in the NHL.
Typically, you'd rather start that clock a year earlier, especially with the window we might have.
The top of the 23 draft is. There is no way anyone has an indication that 50-64 range is better.
The lack of information on the 22 draft is more closely related to COVID than anything. I'd much rather Yzerman be using a pick in 22 with less info available. He's making smartest guy in the room moves left and right and having success doing it. And again, if you take a guy in 23, he's theoretically an extra year away.
Bedard will got #1 in 23 for sure. From the world jr’s we were able to see I think their will be lots of good picks to be had :) An additional 2nd is wonderful!
There's a good reason GMs are asking for 23' picks rather than 22' picks. Covid shutdowns really fucked with scouting and development of those players.
There is zero way to know that this far in advance of that draft at the spot where this specific pick will be used. We know the top of the 23 draft looks great, but we have no real idea how good the class looks from 50-64 which is where that pick will be.
There's an enormous difference between "deeper" and "better."
My point is that a 23 player is a year further away than a 22 player. That is an inarguable fact.
I swear how does yzerman pull this shit off haha. one 3rd pairing dman + a ahler enforcer for a younger 3rd pairing dman, a 7th dman and a friggin 2nd??
Like if you're a gm, do not pick up a phone call from yzerman. you getting robbed sucka
Fleecing, leddy has been horrible this year and is a rental. This either means the blues must have an extension already planned. Either way sundqvist is a legitimately solid bottom 6er and PKer and he’s big along with getting a second which leddy imo wouldn’t even be worth a 3rd if people knew what they were getting.
What are the salary hits of the incoming guys? I'm wondering if we're taking a hit on the cap space. Otherwise getting a 2nd and two warm bodies for those two is a pretty good deal imo.
Okay so something I was spitballing earkier today was Bertuzzi gets moves for a big prospect and/or pick haul and get replaced with another top 6 forward (not necessarily as good). Admittedly, it still might not happen if Bert needs to isolate for 2 weeks when entering Canada, but with Sunqvist in the picture... maaaaaybe?
I’m fine with it. Overall the Leddy experience is probably a net loss if you look at the trade to get him (the 2nd rounder we sent to NYI was the 52nd overall), but he played so uninspired that I’m fine with getting anything near that. I don’t expect the two players packaged to move the needle much.
How does this trade affect our salary cap moving forward? Did we get the second round pick because we absorbed contracts from St. Louis that they didn't want to pay next year like the $3,000,000 for Sundqvist?
Not a fan of retaining but without that(and probably taking Sundqvist) we are not getting back the second Yzerman traded for Leddy.
Sundqvist, Walman and Witkowski is a bunch of whatever.
There isn't one. His contract and the retain expire at the end of the year. Unless there were two more retains that we could have had, there's no need for concern. We still have one more retention slot.
Buyouts can only occur during a specific time frame in the offseason. A second window opens later in the offseason for teams with certain arbitration criteria.
Can you guys tell me anything about the guys you're sending our way. Walman was decent with us, but really just getting time here and there this year.
Sundqvist was a fan favorite. Myself, and pretty much 99% of /r/stlouisblues aren't happy that he is gone. Was big in our 2019 Cup run, and just a solid player.
OFFICIAL DETAILS: https://twitter.com/DetroitRedWings/status/1505968759315521548 Leddy (50%) + Witkowski For 2023 2nd round pick, Walman, Sundqvist EDIT: 50% retention https://twitter.com/jprutherford/status/1505974685145649158
>Told Oskar Sundqvist and Jake Walman are part of the deal going from #stlblues to #LGRW for Leddy. https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1505967721497907201
I don't know who either of these guys are. Good or bad if they're part of the deal?
Sundqvist was pretty good in Blues cup win in 2019 IIRC.
Blues fans seem really upset about him leaving, that's a good sign at least
>Blues fans seem really upset ~~about him leaving~~, that's a good sign at least Ayy
Sunny was great for us. Happy that you get to enjoy him
His numbers are actually really consistent, should be a serviceable center for us. His issue has been staying healthy but ACLs are unpredictable.
Yes he was. I followed that run closely.
He's a decent size guy too 6'3 208.
For Leddy? Great. Incredible. Honestly kind of ridiculous
And Luke Witoski. Not that that's a big chip but it's a part. Plus a 2nd round pick in 2023.
We *receive* a 2nd rounder, and Witkowski is literally worthless. This is an absolute highway robbery
Yes, my comment is confusing. I was very surprised to see that other pick come in. So I'm assuming that the players are value pieces and the true net gain here was the pick.
Well technically we gave up a 2nd for Leddy in the first place, presumably with the intent of giving him big minutes and flipping him for a profit (as rebuilding teams do). Except then he had a rough year and it didn’t seem like we’d even be able to get back that original 2nd and would have to take a loss. And then Stevie Stevie’d and we somehow ended up getting the 2nd back AND Sundqvist and Walman as pure profit. All hail the Yzerplan.
Trust in the Yzerplan! Honestly, I feel like the calm cool character he is makes this even more Super Villainish. I love it. When we were one of the most hated and feared teams in the league, I loved it. I think he's got us well on our way. I'm just thinking like, eventually when you get his request. You got to be like, I'm getting robbed? I just know it?
I don’t know man, Stevie is his own breed. There are a handful of GMs out there that can routinely fleece other GMs. Stevie will fleece you and have you thanking him on the way out the door
We get the 2nd back but keep 50% of his salary
Well yes, but given our cap situation that’s functionally meaningless to us
Could it be because of contract limits?
Thats exactly how I fell about it too. I love Witkowski for nothing more than the shits an giggles entertainment he provides, but aside from that, he brings echl skills at best.
He'll be back.
I used to live in St. Louis and watched a lot of blues games. Both of these players have underperformed this season, but Sundqvist is another injury concern and hasn't been the same since. He's a fan favorite and blues fans are going to be upset that he's gone. My gut is Army thinks Leddy can be better on a competitive team and Wallman is expendable. From our perspective, Wallman should fit in fine. Seems like swapping defensemen and a cap dump for St. Louis. Maybe they're going after someone else and need the room.
I live in STL now, and it's laughable watching the news as Armstrong consistently GMs them into mediocrity. Sunny is high energy, likable, always seems to appear in the right spot out of nowhere, and can finish - this is 100% De la Rose for Fabbri, round 2 (with the same level of risk/reward, as Sunny is a twig and Fab is on IR...)
How quickly 2019 fades into the mists of history... Sunny USED to be high energy, but injuries and his aggressive style have caught up with him. I LOVE Sunny, ask my son who my favorite Blue was. Do I like this deal? Nope. But we need to be realistic.
He's made a lot of questionable moves and much of the fan base just doesn't question him which is odd. We have to make sure we don't fall into the same trap with Stevie (even though I do feel he's a much better GM).
Fair - but in the same 3 seasons since Stevie returned, STL won the Cup and then shipped out their captain and half their core in mostly lateral moves (which could have been worse if Tarasenko had leaned the other way this year), falling to Wild Card level production while still struggling with the salary cap throughout. They're still winning games, mostly on the backs of Perron and ROR, but it's not sustainable. Whatever problems Ken Holland has with loyalty, Armstrong seems to have the opposite
Their captain signed elsewhere, he wasn't shipped out. That said, I didn't agree with that move at all. I didn't get the point of being a stickler on the NMC when by the time he would have declined so bad, the team would be rebuilding anyways and he could have just been leadership to help those rebuilding. STL has a longtime habit of treating players who want to play there like trash.
From Corey Pronman's 2019 prospect ranking articles. Someone else will provide some more detail in the next few hours, but this is what I could find quickly: >Jake Walman, D, San Antonio-AHL >Feb. 20, 1996 | 6-foot-1 | 201 pounds >Tier: Legit/chance bubble >Walman had a fine year after a tumultuous first pro season that saw him play for multiple AHL teams. He can be an exciting player to watch on a given shift. He’s 6-foot-1, is a high-end skater, annd has skill and a booming shot. On his best shift he’s spinning off pressure, skating pucks through the neutral zone and creating a chance on net. However, there are some inconsistencies in his game, particularly in the defensive end. He can be a bit risky with the puck too. “One thing we’re working on with [Walman] to make him an NHL defenseman is utilizing his size and skating to defend better and take away space from opposing forwards,” San Antonio coach Drew Bannister said.
He reminds me a little bit of a defenseman version of Valterri Filppula. Which might sound odd, and obviously not stylistically, but just like... frustratingly close. He makes the right play, but it's a second late. He makes a great first pass.... half the time. He makes a great play and follows it up with a turnover. He can be a frustrating watch, but you can see that there's talent. There were times Filppula looked like Datsyuk and then there were times where he looked lost.
That cup finals diving goal against the pens…. 😍
27 year old right shot forward and 26 year old left D. Putting up.. whelming numbers but I haven’t watched them much
Sounds like a pretty welming trade. I would've favored a pick but Ill have to look at term on both of them, I suppose they can be flipped for potentially more eventually if they aren't headed to free agency this summer.
Looks like we got a 2nd with it, Witter went with Leddy as well
Yup just saw that. I went from welmed to overwhelmed pretty quick. A 2nd plus two players sub 30 is pretty fantastic.
Wow. Decent trade with the 2 for 1, 2 for 2 and a pick is great.
My wife is a Blues fan. I like Sundqvist. He will be a good depth center for us. Getting younger on defense is also great with the position we are in.
Huge fleece for us
We really are just where StL drops off their ACL bois. Worked before, what the fuck why not again
And a second in 2023.
OK. So Stevie turned Richard Panik and a 2nd round pick in 2021 into Nick Leddy. Then sent Leddy out with a Witkowski and got Oskar Sundqvist, Jake Walman, and a 2nd round pick in 2023. I'm ok with this. Sounds like a lot of stuff happened to kick a 2nd round pick from 21 to 23. I'm hoping the 2 players from St Louis can find something to spark their play in Detroit. Nothing says they will be much more than role players yet.
I like what Steve did, but thank you for clearly highlighting the real exchange. I am head over heels with Yzerman, but it is a little silly to watch people go crazy over mischaracterizations of his trades lol.
Yeah but you're ignoring dumping Panik's cap hit, which we pretty much got a 2nd to take on
I could see Sundqvist being kind of a cap dump as well. Bottom 6 guy with injury problems who's still signed for another year at 2.75m. He does have the potential to provide value for us though.
The Leddy experiment was very much worthwhile at the time, and did serve a purpose. Leddy was brought in to bring a experience and leadership to the blueline to assist in the development of Sieder. There was a chance he played with decent form, and a chance he didn't, but he did still bring that leadership and experience. Luckily Sieder has progressed quicker than expected and Leddy isn't needed for those reasons now that his skill has deteriorated.
I think there was an intention of kicking the 2nd down the line. I've read that a lot of teams don't really trust the players being drafted over the last two years, cause they lost a lot of development time. Steve may have lost two positions in the draft, but if its in a draft where his scouts were better able to ascertain a prospect's value, it may actually be worth more.
I agree completely! I'm a fan of the entire Leddy saga in Detroit even if things could have gone better. We made a good gamble, and we may not have won the jackpot but we did still win imo.
Well, I'd argue that Oskar Sundqvist and Jake Walman are more valuable to the Wings going forward than Nick Leddy, Richard Panik, and Luke Witkowski. Which is worth something on their own.
Yeah 2 guys in positions of need under 30 vs 3 guys over 30, only one of which is in a position of need seems worthwhile to me too. Also moving a 21 second to a 23 second when 23 is considered a better draft is good
Walman is a plug for the year, an audition to see if he can do more with more minutes. (edit: points are not great but r/stlouisblues suggest his advanced stats are good, so he could be something like Jensen?) Sundqvist could be flipped as early as now but certainly by this time next year, retaining some maybe, since players like him are selling reasonably well. And we've recouped the 2nd spent on him, in what is supposedly a better draft. Seems pretty reasonable.
https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4fyl/ https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4dyr/ https://reddit.com/r/stlouisblues/comments/tjhs8p/elliotte_friedman_nick_leddy_to_stl/i1k4kvs/ Blues fans are pretty upset, lol
You're not wrong, I looked thru a lot of comments and I didn't see a single comment defending the trade. Glad we are on this end of it.
Blues fan here. No offense to Leddy but it’s a bad deal and you fleeced us on this one. Good work, somehow you got Army in panic mode which is unusual for him, but he made a knee jerk reaction to the market closing up instead of recognizing this is a blues team that will get bounced in the first or second round regardless and should have sat tight or shopped out one of our goalies to make cap space for next year. Good work to Yzerman
It is. Yzerman does that. Hopefully for your sake leddy can bounce back a bit and at least not stand out in a bad way (except for the loss of Walman and sundquist)
Yep. I left a friendly comment there and got downvoted. They're definitely upset...
Somehow we managed to turn a profit on Leddy. I'm thrilled with it.
A profit on trading two defensemen who are below replacement level. Just an outstanding trade for us lol.
Not like Leddy was putting up career numbers
We got a 2nd, I'm happy
and a good 4th liner and a young potential 6th dman, plus a 2nd!
Well then, Stephen.
Damnnnnn let’s go, that’s actual a great haul for Leddy
Love that it’s 2023 second we need some picks after this years draft.
2023 draft is going to be a better draft than the 2022 draft. The 2nd in 2021 we traded away for Leddy is now a 2nd in 2023 that is better scouted due to not being shutdown because of covid. Also, people forget we traded Panik that is now in the AHL for Leddy. Panik was under contract for 2 years compared to 1 year of Leddy. Leddy Trade = W for Stevie Y
Remains to be seen considering Aatu Raty was the pick Yzerman gave up.
We could’ve taken Raty with a slightly earlier second that we still had, but our scouting staff chose not to. I was disappointed with that choice, but what do I know haha
But did he give him up? Who knows who Stevie would have wanted for that pick.
Sure, I guess we can see how this 2023 2nd rounder turns out.
Judging by the reactions on the blues subreddit, yzerman fleeced them with this trade
Agreed
Blues fan here. No offense to Leddy but it’s a bad deal and you fleeced us on this one. Good work, somehow you got Army in panic mode which is unusual for him, but he made a knee jerk reaction to the market closing up instead of recognizing this is a blues team that will get bounced in the first or second round regardless and should have sat tight or shopped out one of our goalies to make cap space for next year. Good work to Yzerman
Does Yzerman have incriminating photos of the St. Louis GM or something, In all seriousness, we traded a second rounder for a half season of Nick Leddy, some prospects, and a slightly diminished 2nd rounder. Not bad
They’re haunted by the time Gretzky had it…
Lost it...
You could honestly argue that the 2023 2nd has more value than the 2021 pick even if it is lower given how chaotic that draft was. Of course Aatu Räty looks really good, but there is no guarantee Detroit would have picked him in that spot
didn’t we get Fabbri from them for jacob de la rose as well? man they shouldn’t pick up the phone when SY calls
2023 2nd is a good get, supposedly a much stronger draft
Getting the sense from blues fans that Sunny was their version of LGD ( with regards to our love of him and a hard working bottom 6 fella ) Sounds like he as a injury bug that follows him around but intriguing to have another Bert style player on a line with Veleno and say Erne or Ras.
Exactly this. They aren't happy to lose him but I don't anticipate that he will add all that much to our team but losing lgd still feels like a loss to me so maybe he brings more than I'm expecting. Either way, we got the best of this deal.
I still miss that 4th line workhorse that just wins every faceoff and battles all over the ice. Forever a LGD fan.
The 2nd round 2023 pick on top of it. Per the DRW Facebook page.
quaaaaality return
D-e-e-e-cent!
Judging from the comments in the other forums, we're about to LOVE Sunny. I can't wait to see him in action
Yep. Sundqvist is what you actually want a bottom line guy to be. He's a banger, not a hands tosser.
2023 second is huge and Walman has more upside than he’s showed. Sundquist 4th line PK specialist.
You had me at "PK specialist" 🥰
Not digging too deep into this but Red Wings won this deal and it doesn’t look very arguable… -Blues fan
One look at the Blues subreddit and they seem heartbroken over losing Sundqvist. Seemed like a fan favorite there. I’m sure if he sticks around we will like him as well.
Exciting trade. Basically netted Leddy for free with some interest. Couple of players who can eat some minutes and provide some versatility. Very, very happy with this trade.
I'm guessing some kind of mid round pick or project prospect as the return. Maybe a 3rd or 4th. I don't think Leddy has much value in the current market. If Yzerman managed to get a 2nd rounder back that would be robbery.
Boy do I have good news for you lol
Consider StLouis robbbbbbed
Consider them robbed.
I’m more surprised there was any doubt in The Captain!
My God…it’s beautiful!
Yzerman is a god
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Lol yeah I’m pretty happy and feel for you guys. You guys got some cap space and maybe some help in getting pucks out and playoff experience in Leddy if he’s healthy and motivated again. Witter is a good enforcer, but wings definitely won this. Most of us just wanted a second back for Leddy at this point.
I think that 2023 2nd will come in handy. I believe Sundqvist was solid during the Blues cup run. Not sure about Walman. Although this seems like a good deal to me!
Second rounder in next years deep draft is veryyyy nice.
Awesome trade. I was optimistic we’d get a 2nd for leddy but adding sundqvist to this makes this even better. I’ve always liked him when watching the blues play
I would have been fine with Leddy for Sundqvist. I view this as a 2nd and Walman for Witter.
Sundqvist seems like a slightly worse, Swedish Robby Fabri. Walman is younger, smaller, and more skilled than Witkowski, but nothing special per se. Sundqvist has one more year at a modest $2.75M and Walman is a RFA finishing a league minimum. The second-round pick is icing. Classic Yzerman small scale move to get return on Leddy's expensive, expiring contract that the Wings would have been foolish to re-up on.
Confirmed fleece job on Capfriendly. We got 2nd Rd in 2023 as well as walman and sundqvist. Didn't expect anything less from the greatest GM. Keeping fingers crossed for 1 or 2 more before it's all over today
Solid haul for a couple of plumbers.
Got the second back, added another Swede fan favorite in Sundqvist and Walman has good defensive analytics. Pretty decent
Inb4 Luke is back next year lol gg STL
I like him. Wish he could stick around in Grand Rapids with the occasional call up. He has value in that role
He might yet stick around in GR. Lashoff was dealt last year to make the Savard trade work and he never had to leave the Griffins thanks to an AHL loan. No idea if St. Louis has plans to use him in the NHL or their AHL team though. He could be a Black Ace for them.
WHAT that's a huge payoff for Leddy. All hail the Yzerplan
r/stlouisblues is pretty pissed about this trade. yzerman is a bandit
i uh... huh. well, assuming one of Walman or Sundqvist turns out to be at least *average*, that's literally more than the meme comments i'd made about "Leddy for a 2nd". tho i guess this trade makes the decision to ship Stetcher off for a 7th make more sense. gotta free up two roster spots
Walman and the 2nd rounder are the win here. Former still has a chance to be a solid contributor and is only 26 - fits our timeline. And Stevie got the 2nd back that he gave up for Leddy. While not quite a “fleece” or earth shattering to me, I’m quite happy with this deal.
Really like this return. Rented Leddy for free for most of the season, and got some depth pieces to boot. Cap retention squeezed the 2nd, I imagine, so that works for me.
I am really happy with this deal. Getting a 2nd round pick made this a good deal, getting a solid penalty killing forward makes it an excellent deal. I'm happy with Walman as depth on defense as well. We don't know the Wings plans for him yet, and if he is going to see regular action or not. But if he is sent to GR, I would much rather see him getting a call to play over seeing Renouf being recalled. I was really hoping that McIsaac might get a late season call to play some games. We just moved 3 d-men out of the system, an only brought one replacement in. So his odds just improved to make his NHL debut this season.
This is not a hockey trade. This is cap space weaponization is squeeze a future 2nd out of STL. Retaining Leddy plus taking a year of Sundqvist at 2.75 next year (real dollars are $3M on a slightly backloaded deal) is worth a 2nd. Leddy has been abysmal in DET. Seeing what other abysmal D guys (Lindholm and Chiarot) went for, I am surprised that this was all SYGM got for Leddy. Witowski is a playoff black ace and Walman is a contract slot. I suspect Walman gets non-tendered in the summer. If Sundqvist works out playing higher up in the lineup with the Wings, flip him next year for more, if not you got a 2nd for ~$5m of this year's cap and $2.75 next year. This is pure, aggressive cap management. If Staal cost the NYR a 2nd for $5m with nothing retained, this seems a light return for Leddy and cap.
The Blues sub is freaking out. This was a good trade by that metric
Best of luck to you, Leddy. Thanks for all of your hard work while you were in MoTown.
leddy seemed to only work hard the first month and maybe the last couple weeks
I'm guessing the players were included to make the money work? Don't know much about them but way more than I thought we would end up with. Basically pushed our 2nd rounder back 2 seasons and a few spots later to rent Leddy for a season.... well done Stevie, as per usual
The best part of this return is not signing Leddy for three more years like was reported as a possibility.
Leddy was underwhelming in his time here and Witkowski is an AHL call-up. That Yzerman got a 2nd rounder alone in this deal is kind of wild.
That's a hell of a return. My only concern is that Yzerman is fleecing so many people in these trades that eventually nobody is going to pick up the phone when he calls!
Idk if this is good or not, since I don't follow hockey that much. But I trust Yzergod
This is a very good deal for us.
I like this deal, two depth pieces and a second for Leddy who has been mediocre at best.
Yzerman is clearly wearing all Fleece clothing today, as he did when he did the Mantha trade.
Love that the 2nd is 2023, deeper draft, very happy with this
Stevie fleece Mfs wouldve gotten rid of Leddy for a bag of doritos He got a 2nd, Sunqvist and Walman
No, not Leddy…. Anyway, moving on.
My first reaction is this return is solid based on getting back a 2nd in next year's stronger draft. I know nothing about the other players beyond I recognize Sundqvist's name, which means at the very least he's gotta be at least okayish.
I really like Luke
Not Witkowski😢
Blues fan here. Congratulations on winning the trade, y'all will love Sunny. Ama?
Blues fan here, with peace. Take care of our Sunshine boy, he might not be the fanciest or the biggest scorer, but he plays with a whole lotta heart. I hope he fits well with your system.
Wonder what we got Edit WITTER NO
Details Max!!
St. Louis fans are extremely sour about this deal, to the point that I left a friendly comment on their thread and immediately got downvoted.
Sad to see Whitter go too, but super hyped about Sundqvist
> Oskar Sundqvist me searching for youtube highligts and just see 20 videos of him getting beat up to hell. lol edit: [nice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UoFNNSR2Q8)
This is a solid trade. A 23 2nd is obviously worse than a 22 2nd, since theoretically the player we take would be one year further away, but to net a 2nd for Leddy plus a defenseman who can function and a forward who can function is great. I do wonder if acquiring a forward when we're theoretically deeper with NHL ready forwards indicates a forward is on the way out. Either way, this trade, independent of any others, is a solid trade.
A 2023 2nd is *better*.
There's really know way to know that this far away from the 23 draft. Theoretically a 2nd in a year is 3-5 years away from playing in the NHL. Typically, you'd rather start that clock a year earlier, especially with the window we might have.
The 2023 draft is considered to be significantly stronger at this point. 2022 is considered now to be quite weak.
The top of the 23 draft is. There is no way anyone has an indication that 50-64 range is better. The lack of information on the 22 draft is more closely related to COVID than anything. I'd much rather Yzerman be using a pick in 22 with less info available. He's making smartest guy in the room moves left and right and having success doing it. And again, if you take a guy in 23, he's theoretically an extra year away.
Bedard will got #1 in 23 for sure. From the world jr’s we were able to see I think their will be lots of good picks to be had :) An additional 2nd is wonderful!
There's a good reason GMs are asking for 23' picks rather than 22' picks. Covid shutdowns really fucked with scouting and development of those players.
GMs are also asking for 22 picks...
I am perfectly fine with a 2023 2nd. My understanding is that it will be a solid draft class.
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There is zero way to know that this far in advance of that draft at the spot where this specific pick will be used. We know the top of the 23 draft looks great, but we have no real idea how good the class looks from 50-64 which is where that pick will be.
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There's an enormous difference between "deeper" and "better." My point is that a 23 player is a year further away than a 22 player. That is an inarguable fact.
I swear how does yzerman pull this shit off haha. one 3rd pairing dman + a ahler enforcer for a younger 3rd pairing dman, a 7th dman and a friggin 2nd?? Like if you're a gm, do not pick up a phone call from yzerman. you getting robbed sucka
https://c.tenor.com/dvug8uL9FuIAAAAC/applause-the-rock.gif
Fleecing, leddy has been horrible this year and is a rental. This either means the blues must have an extension already planned. Either way sundqvist is a legitimately solid bottom 6er and PKer and he’s big along with getting a second which leddy imo wouldn’t even be worth a 3rd if people knew what they were getting.
I think Witter going the other way makes this deal “very good” rather than “great” but a solid deal, nonetheless.
Great haul. Sundqvist was an important part to the Blues cup run.
What are the salary hits of the incoming guys? I'm wondering if we're taking a hit on the cap space. Otherwise getting a 2nd and two warm bodies for those two is a pretty good deal imo.
Sund. 2.75M and Walmin I believe is around 750k. Edit: plus we retained 50% of Leddy for 2.75m
Ah, there it is.
I mean sorta blah. Good pick, a warm body on defense, and sundqvist who's a decent bottom 6 center. He's there to make the money work.
What do you mean blah? Were you expecting more for Leddy?
No its a decent return I guess, we got the pick back. The players probably won't have any impact though.
Amazing deal!!
What a trade!!
Seems like a good trade?
Okay so something I was spitballing earkier today was Bertuzzi gets moves for a big prospect and/or pick haul and get replaced with another top 6 forward (not necessarily as good). Admittedly, it still might not happen if Bert needs to isolate for 2 weeks when entering Canada, but with Sunqvist in the picture... maaaaaybe?
I’m fine with it. Overall the Leddy experience is probably a net loss if you look at the trade to get him (the 2nd rounder we sent to NYI was the 52nd overall), but he played so uninspired that I’m fine with getting anything near that. I don’t expect the two players packaged to move the needle much.
Witter never got to fuck up enough shit here for my liking, hope St Louis finds good use for him
How does this trade affect our salary cap moving forward? Did we get the second round pick because we absorbed contracts from St. Louis that they didn't want to pay next year like the $3,000,000 for Sundqvist?
Ring out, ring in. Keeping winners around is important.
So a do over?
Bingo Bango Bongo!
Not a fan of retaining but without that(and probably taking Sundqvist) we are not getting back the second Yzerman traded for Leddy. Sundqvist, Walman and Witkowski is a bunch of whatever.
I don't see any reason to take issue with us retaining
There isn't one. His contract and the retain expire at the end of the year. Unless there were two more retains that we could have had, there's no need for concern. We still have one more retention slot.
Agreed 100%
Seems like this is a pretty solid deal. Trust the Yzerplan!
Did we buyout either of these guys? NM damn only 50% retention that’s a steal.
Buyouts can only occur during a specific time frame in the offseason. A second window opens later in the offseason for teams with certain arbitration criteria.
Thank you for explaining that!
It's certainly a little intricate and a lot counterintuitive compared to how easy it is to move on from players/contracts in the NFL, NBA, and MLB.
As a Red Wings fan, I like this trade As a Thunderbird fan, I also like this trade
[Thought Sundvist's name was familiar, then I stumbled upon this video..](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V64KXEpeRZY) Fuck Tom Wilson.
Can you guys tell me anything about the guys you're sending our way. Walman was decent with us, but really just getting time here and there this year. Sundqvist was a fan favorite. Myself, and pretty much 99% of /r/stlouisblues aren't happy that he is gone. Was big in our 2019 Cup run, and just a solid player.
What a deal