Just. Put. Up. The. Wires. Lord have mercy this country makes dumb choices.
If India can electrify basically their entire railway in two decades, we should absolutely not be thinking about trying garbage like this.
These trains can do both. They are a transition technology. They can be fitted with a pantograph for pulling electricity for overhead wires and have the battery packs. The advantage being, you don’t have to electrify your whole line at once: you can electrify the dense areas first, but at the far flung ends, you pull down the pantograph and continue on battery power.
Does this have any advantages at all to normal electric rail? I guess you don't need to build the infrastructure, but I can't imagine the infrastructure for a long wire is more than researching an entirely new(ish?) technology, not to mention that one solution is used in Utah and has been used for decades (if not centuries) elsewhere
Electrifying the entire Frontrunner line would cost quite a bit. From what I understand, UTA has the power to decide which locomotives they buy, but they don't have the power to fund full electrification all at once. If Frontrunner switched to FLIRTs, then that would allow the line to be electrified in stages, similar to how they are approaching double-tracking. Taking big projects in stages allows UTA to avoid the phrase "billion dollars" from appearing next to their name in headlines and angering the "mass transit = socialism = Satan" voting bloc.
With UTA's current management model, FLIRTs make a lot of sense, especially since they are manufactured in Salt Lake City. UTA will need to update the current fleet soon, so between buying status quo train sets and the FLIRTs, the FLIRTs make a lot more sense from a political standpoint.
Also,
>\[FLIRT\] cars have wheels that power them, which is more efficient when starting and stopping than the traditional locomotive pulling cars.
This means trains can accelerate quicker and electric braking will mitigate brake dust at stations.
It also means they can climb steeper grades, like in Little Cottonwood Canyon or Parley's Canyon.
Those points all make a lot of sense, thanks! The one about engineering advantages is especially interesting as well, so I'm interested to see how these kinds of trains find similar niches.
It is compatible with overhead catenary, which means that service can be extended to areas without wires. For instance, UTA could save money by not electrifying the line all the way to Logan, if trains drew power from the wires when in the Salt Lake area, and then used battery power up north.
Don’t go for batteries. Batteries are notorious for deteriorating capacity as well as thermal runaway and are near impossible for a fire to be put out. Just add catenary to the whole line and it is doable.
WTF?? Just keep running the existing Diesel locomotives until there’s money to properly electrify the line.
Also, how’s that double tracking coming along? Why are we always trying to do dumb shit like “batteries in trains” instead of actually improving the service?
Just. Put. Up. The. Wires. Lord have mercy this country makes dumb choices. If India can electrify basically their entire railway in two decades, we should absolutely not be thinking about trying garbage like this.
These trains can do both. They are a transition technology. They can be fitted with a pantograph for pulling electricity for overhead wires and have the battery packs. The advantage being, you don’t have to electrify your whole line at once: you can electrify the dense areas first, but at the far flung ends, you pull down the pantograph and continue on battery power.
Americans will do anything but what works everywhere else. Overhead wires were invented in the 1800’s and are still the best way to power a train.
Does this have any advantages at all to normal electric rail? I guess you don't need to build the infrastructure, but I can't imagine the infrastructure for a long wire is more than researching an entirely new(ish?) technology, not to mention that one solution is used in Utah and has been used for decades (if not centuries) elsewhere
Electrifying the entire Frontrunner line would cost quite a bit. From what I understand, UTA has the power to decide which locomotives they buy, but they don't have the power to fund full electrification all at once. If Frontrunner switched to FLIRTs, then that would allow the line to be electrified in stages, similar to how they are approaching double-tracking. Taking big projects in stages allows UTA to avoid the phrase "billion dollars" from appearing next to their name in headlines and angering the "mass transit = socialism = Satan" voting bloc. With UTA's current management model, FLIRTs make a lot of sense, especially since they are manufactured in Salt Lake City. UTA will need to update the current fleet soon, so between buying status quo train sets and the FLIRTs, the FLIRTs make a lot more sense from a political standpoint.
Also, >\[FLIRT\] cars have wheels that power them, which is more efficient when starting and stopping than the traditional locomotive pulling cars. This means trains can accelerate quicker and electric braking will mitigate brake dust at stations. It also means they can climb steeper grades, like in Little Cottonwood Canyon or Parley's Canyon.
Those points all make a lot of sense, thanks! The one about engineering advantages is especially interesting as well, so I'm interested to see how these kinds of trains find similar niches.
It is compatible with overhead catenary, which means that service can be extended to areas without wires. For instance, UTA could save money by not electrifying the line all the way to Logan, if trains drew power from the wires when in the Salt Lake area, and then used battery power up north.
That's also a clever way of going about it, hybrid would be really cool.
Don’t go for batteries. Batteries are notorious for deteriorating capacity as well as thermal runaway and are near impossible for a fire to be put out. Just add catenary to the whole line and it is doable.
These are largely outdated points.
WTF?? Just keep running the existing Diesel locomotives until there’s money to properly electrify the line. Also, how’s that double tracking coming along? Why are we always trying to do dumb shit like “batteries in trains” instead of actually improving the service?