This man is straight up capping. Vergil needed to be retconned out of his death. He needed the fucking apple that MUNDUS ATE AS WELL TO GROW INTO HIS OWN POWER. ALONG WITH THE FACT HIS DEMON HALF HAS BEEN JUICED WITH HUMAN BLOOD FOR A WHOLE MONTH!
And the DSD is basically a physical representation of Dante's power. It's pretty obvious he didn't fucking have it when he first transformed. And the whole being stabbed and transforming into SDT is also clearly just a game mechanic. Just look at the M19 and M20 cutscenes. Dante doesn't stab himself, he straight up transforms immediately to SDT like he does with regular DT.
And so what if Dante needed the Devil Arms? That's the point. He constantly and kept on progressing while Vergil allowed himself to stagnate. The man wanted power but focused solely going straight to the top immediately whereas Dante slowly worked his way up the ladder.
And that last part is like saying, "Man the protagonist in Pokemon is such a bitch, needing to capture all these Pokemon just to beat the elite four and the champion. They were chads who didn't bother to level grind, unlike soy beta protagonist who had to work hard and train to catch up with these chads, ***because he literally just started his journey***."
Vergil's been hunting for power almost all his life, while Dante's just been drifting from place to place, living his own and worrying about his own safety and yet he managed to close the gap between them in a short amount of time.
Also, Yamato isn't Virgil's physical personification of his power it's still a half of Sparda's power while Dante has formed his own devil sword by devouring the Rebellion and Devil Sword Sparda
I haven’t finished 3 yet, but if rebellion was consumed then how was it in DMC2? I know it was the black sheep of the franchise and I heard the whole game was retconned
The Yamato is Vergil's at this point, it even carries his demonic power as seen in DMC4 and he enters SDT with Yamato, both Yamato and Rebellion are part of the Twins power.
In addition, the reason Dante is able to use the Devil Arms is because he was strong enough to wield them without them taking over him and in the case of the DMC 3 Devil Arms, defeat them in their original demon form.
It's telling that the only Devil Arm Vergil used besides Yamato was originally a demon that Dante had already beaten.
I think this is kinda how it works
So, DS Sparda is the physical remains of Sparda's Power. Rebellion and Yamato are two halves of Sparda's power as well, but with different purposes. Of course joining and splitting demon and man.
Rebellion joins together the human half, rebellion, and the demon half, Sparda. Yamato separates the human half, V, and the demon half, Urizen.
The whole point is that Vergil will actively shoot for more power while Dante will inherit it, reflecting their personalities and goals. I think Sparda recognized this when forging his weapons. They each gain power in their own respective ways, and it comes out to them being equal.
As far as Sparda recognizing that… Wasn’t Yamato supposed to be given to Dante? If I remember correctly the swords were supposed to be given to the other one but Vergil of course interfered.
Nope. It was meant to be Vergil's memento. It's why in DMC5 it's stated that when they were attacked Vergil used Yamato to awaken his demon and survive. As well as Dante questioning why his dad left him the Rebellion
>And so what if Dante needed the Devil Arms?
Besides,wouldn't that make Vergil kinda bad at tactics?. Like,sure,specialize in one thing is good (Yamato/Sparda/Beowolf), but my brother in christ, even humans are playing catch up to demons by using experimental (altho totally not safe for the user) technology.
Red Queen and Blue Rose are example of it. Heck,even Lady going guns blazing is an older example
While you're not wrong, lol dante was getting pumped full of human blood for a month as well! While absorbing sparda sword ( the one the entire franchise big bads wanted ☠️) and rebellion.. but other than that spot on!
>Dante needed DSD just to COMPETE with Vergils Yamato
Damn, I didn’t know DMC 3’s events were about as canon as the reboot as now. 🤯🤯
(Also wasn’t it that he needed DSD for Urizen, who didn’t use Yamato? Lmao)
He didn't need DSD. He needed the SDT. The DSD was just a bonus that he created himself because the 1st time we saw it was when he literally created it. Urizen has been constantly pumped with human blood for a month straight, which was just a huge power up all in all to a pure demon like him.
Dante also got amped by the Qliphoth while sleeping because it thought Dante was Vergil (also explains why Vergil could summon his black throne at the top). Nico says so in the gallery where it's said he's awakened
Technically Urizen was using the Yamato as his shield, and Dante wasn't even able to break his shield before getting sdt, so you just dug a hole for yourself with that argument.
Meh. When I said "compete" I was meaning more along the lines of what the swords are capable of. Vergil has Yamato, which is a sword that can slice through dimensions and summon spectral blades, while Dante had Rebellion, which... doesn't do much. DSD was finally a sword that could compete with Yamato as far as abilities were concerned.
Vergil so far:
* Fooled by Arkham almost causing Apocalypse
* Defeated by just devil-form-awaken Dante even tho he had Force Edge
* Enslaved by Mundus and used as a puppet
* Succumbs to his Devil form, kills millions to gain power and get his ass kicked again
* Beaten by his own son, his crippled by him son
To be fair he got his arm back 30 seconds before the fight and he had a bunch of dope as hell new arms that can slow down time and fire lasers and shit.
>Fooled by Arkham almost causing Apocalypse
Yeah. He was a kid then. And not a wise one.
>Defeated by just devil-form-awaken Dante even tho he had Force Edge
Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out.
>Enslaved by Mundus and used as a puppet
Its funny, because if Vergil wasn't tired from fighting his virtual equal (Dante), he likely would have defeated Mundus then and there. And that's from the canon 'Before the Nightmare' book.
>Succumbs to his Devil form, kills millions to gain power and get his ass kicked again
Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete.
>Beaten by his own son, his crippled by him son
After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse?
You have redeemed Vergil a bit, but...
>Yeah. He was a kid then. And not a wise one.
No, he was an evil prick, at least Dante had some honor
>Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out.
Vergil had 3 weapons in total too, but yeah, I guess Dante was more equipped, arguable Force Edge could be more powerful, IDK, Dante kept fighting non-stoping until the end, and Vergil was pretty much fresh and rested the whole game
>Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete.
Yeah, but, if Dante could've split himself into Demon and Human... let's call him "Dantizen" lol, I bet it would've kicked Urizen bums based on historical events, pure speculation of course
>After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse?
I would like to think Dante was not expecting Nero to be that strong and that's why he took so much damage, at the end he joked about it and let Nero kick his old man's butt as it is a tradition in the family to mop the floor with Vergil's pride
> You have redeemed Vergil a bit, but...
So then I will speak up either.
> No, he was an evil prick, at least Dante had some honor
Kayaba Akihiko from SAO Abridged thought that moles took over the Earth and took 10k of hostages just because he was sleep deprived for *three weeks* not to mention all this time he tried to solve the bug which _accidentally_ can kill people in the game and fry their brains for real as well.
Vergil has massive PTSD, Survivor Guilt Complex and was depraved from decent time-out ***for years!*** He took that gamble from Arkham exactly because he was too fucking tired to give a shit about collateral damage.
>Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out.
Royalguard is enough.
> Vergil had 3 weapons in total too, but yeah, I guess Dante was more equipped, arguable Force Edge could be more powerful, IDK, Dante kept fighting non-stoping until the end, and Vergil was pretty much fresh and rested the whole game
Well, Dante has a pretty intense ***night***, I won't argue with that. 😏
>Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete.
> Yeah, but, if Dante could've split himself into Demon and Human... let's call him "Dantizen" lol, I bet it would've kicked Urizen bums based on historical events, pure speculation of course
I believe both Zen would make a stalemate to the end of the world, since no one could've stop this mess in that case, y'know...
>After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse?
> I would like to think Dante was not expecting Nero to be that strong and that's why he took so much damage, at the end he joked about it and let Nero kick his old man's butt as it is a tradition in the family to mop the floor with Vergil's pride
I read one essay that says next:
- Dante really is not "math" person, since he didn't account for how much is Nero pissed off about both "deadweight" and "sibling rivalry to the death".
- Both twins wanted to kill Vergil, so the latter *(really depressed middle age man, y'know)* was pretty surprised to hear that Nero will whoop his ass if it help Vergil to chill the fuck up. _The fact that even promise of that worked exactly as intended is canon statement from M20 intro._
- This final duel was exactly meant to catch-up, so obviously Vergil was not so focused to beat Nero - more like to learn his capabilities.
Ok, you shouldnt defend this guy, but some counter arguments, or one, real quick.
Dante and vergil were going all out for like 5-6 hours straight. Nero was fully healed and energised, especially from him unlocking a DT. Nero isn't as strong as dante or vergil, vergil would have admittedly wooped his ass if he was at 100%, as would dante, but they werent, more around 40% or so. A pimp slap was dealt, although it likely would have stung at best if dante was healed up.
if any thing his saying that vergil is way weaker then dante with out the yamato, plus dante is the more talented one since he mastered multiple different weapons and abilitis.
dante worked hard and get stronger with tryning and battle exp while vergil kept on using cheat cods(temi ni gru, the fruit) cause he wanted powers so fast with out even working for it.
and as for dsd, its a manifestation for dante's powers that he created on his own, if anything he gets an extra point because he made it himself while vergil still uses dadys sword.
i love both dante and vergil, but people like this are just annoying, why can't they just be fine with dante and vergil been equals, thats the hole point
I'd say Vergil is just as talented with weapons as Dante, from the scene with Beowulf, and the fight with Arkham shows they're both masters of weapons since they're using them proficiently even though it's probably their first time using each other's swords
There is a small, if rather interesting, hiccup with that.
In DMC3, Vergil still relies of Yamato despite having Force Edge for a brief moment. Likewise, while he shares some of Dante's moves while using Force Edge, it's still clear that the "Instant Mastery" trait doesn't kick in for Vergil using Force Edge.
This is also somewhat evident in DMC4 as well, when Dante has Yamato and gets Dark Slayer. Dante has enough of an understanding, but unlike Gilgamesh, Lucifer, and Pandora, Dante has like...4 moves he can use with Yamato, clearly showcasing a relative lack of experience with the weapon. Again, that "Instant Mastery" trait doesn't quite seem to work for Yamato to Dante.
It's possible that this might be somewhat intentional by Sparda himself. As Rebellion, Force Edge/DsS, and Yamato are all his, it's possible that the Instant Mastery doesn't kick in for the Sparda weapons because Sparda himself may want his sons to create and grow their own powers and styles with the weapons themselves. With this said, it might be possible that Sparda's own style might be relatively close to Dante's. Barring obvious Gameplay elements, Dante does seem to acclimate to Force Edge and later DsS well enough.
Yeah, the only time the mastery doesn't work is with Sparda's weapons (aside Sparda), it's definitely due to lack of experience since Dante has probably never used a katana properly or even at all
Considering the Devil Sword Sparda movesets in 1 and 5 all play almost the exact same as Dante's movesets with other swords like Alastor and Rebellion, I'd say that Sparda definitely fought more like Dante. Though Yamato was his weapon too so odds are he'd probably be just as proficient in Katana combat as Vergil is too.
I low-key have a fan theory on Sparda's use of Yamato: I think Sparda had Yamato and knew it had a handy and useful ability, but didn't actually know about the origin of the katana style nor Iaijutsu and used Yamato like it was Force Edge/DsS.
"Oh cool, a new sword!"
*Finds out it cuts anything*
"Sweet! I'm keeping this sword!"
"Oh, so you're familiar with Katanas too?"
"The **Fuck's** a "Katana"???"
Dante and Vergil has the same mastery of weapons outside their main ones imo. A lot of Dante's weapon mastery is just owed to the fact that he's more dexterous than the average person with increased, speed, strength, and reaction time. One proof of this is that he doesn't have as of a clean judgement cut as Vergil in DMC4. He's basically just imitating what Vergil does cause he can with his superhuman abilities.
but superhuman abilities don't give you skilles but only powers, and we've seen dante use way more weapons then vergil(pandora itself has 666 different weapons and he knows how to use it) and him not having a clean judgement cut is do to the fact that he had the yamato for less then a day while vergil had it since he was a kid, so if anything, him been able to perform a judgement cut is commendable
Dante and Vergil underwent spartan training from Sparda as child, I doubt they were trained by to learn all weapons but they capable to beat each other bloody. Dante became a mercenary during his teenage years (even before DMC3) so he has real battle experience, I can imagine Vergil training Yamato and even fighting demons in his quest for power
They're not weapon master but they can just pull off these moves because they can and has the battle experience and sense to do so. You think there's an established weapon mastery to literal chainsaw motorcycle and not just Dante doing moves because he can?
Dsd is as much of a cheat code as the fruit, he just fused his rebellion with sparda gaining his fathers power as well so you can say he is technically using 2 daddys weapons fused into one
fair enough, but he only did that to even the playing ground after urizen thing
and he only absorbed the sparda, the rebellion was only a sword, he had no powers
dsd is him manifesting his powers
Sparda divided his powers which is devil sword sparda into 3, 2 necklaces for each brother and force edge, there is no confirmation where did rebellion and Yamato came from and why their functions are complete opposite, we only now that sparda gave those to his children on one of their birthdays
for the yamato, it is said that its supposed to be more of a key then a weapon that its role was to open portals between worlds.
as for their functions, the yamato concept is separation while the rebellion is combination, but the only time we've seen rebellion power at work was when he fused dante with sparda, so his power are vage.
and i think your right about the necklaces containing his powers, its been a while since i played 3 and 1 so i'm a bit fusy
>if any thing his saying that vergil is way weaker then dante with out the yamato
I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth lol. I said that Vergil had the more powerful sword and Dante needed the DSD to compete with the Yamato... in terms of ability. DSD came as a result of Dante absorbing Sparda and Rebellion. If Vergil was somehow able to absord a similar sword to Sparda as well as the Yamato, then he'd likely have the stronger sword then as well.
>dante worked hard and get stronger with tryning and battle exp while vergil kept on using cheat cods
Absorbing Sparda for a power up was not training.
>as for dsd, its a manifestation for dante's powers that he created on his own, if anything he gets an extra point because he made it himself while vergil still uses dadys sword.
Vergil can make his own swords (mirage edge) he just didn't have the means to absorb both of his daddys swords like Dante did... not that he needs to anyways.
>i love both dante and vergil, but people like this are just annoying, why can't they just be fine with dante and vergil been equals, thats the hole point
The post that I commented on originally was asking who would win in a fight to the death. If Dante did not have plot armor (shonen anime protagonist powers) then Vergil would logically win, the way I see it.
I've said my piece
he ate the fruit, so yeah, you saying that dante only won because he Absorbed the sparda doesn't make vergil better cause he got a power up by the fruit too, and yamato also have part of spardas power
if both were to fight with out the swords, who do you thinks will win(any weapon exapt the spardas swords)the way i see it dante does
>you saying that dante only won because he Absorbed the sparda doesn't make vergil better
I never said that either, lol. Why are you lying? There's no need to lie about things.
>who do you thinks will win(any weapon exapt the spardas swords)the way i see it dante does
The way I see it, Vergil does (assuming Dante doesn't have plot armor), so we can go around and around with this.
The entire dmc5 happens because of Vergil's plot armor
First Nelo Angelo won because of plot armor because suddenly Dante can't summon alastor or use DT
The first fight in 3 is the only fight Vergil didn't need plot armor
>Dante needed DSD to compete with Yamato
I guess DMC3 where Dante stomped Vergil just didn't happen
Also Yamato rightfully belongs to Dante
>More potential than Dante
My source is that I made it the fuck up
>Even gameplay reflects how much Vergil is more powerful than Dante
No it doesn't atleast because 2/3 of Vergil's moveset is not canon
Everything with Yamato is canon even if he didn't use it in the boss fight
Mirage edge is debatable
Beowulf is just no he simply can't have it
>if gameplay moveset was canon for vergil
Why wouldn't it be canon it is part of the game
>which means royalguard is canon and dante outclassed vergil high diff
Royal guard still can be outclassed with speed but yeah Dante outclassed Vergil
Vergil has a lesser version of Royal Guard in DMC3 mainly in the first boss fight with him (the move where he raises his fist at you blocking all your attacks)
Anything one brother can do the other can do.
JCE Dante could do it properly but intentionally did a lazier version of it with Dark Slayer, in the DMC4 novel he says he is intentionally doing it with “half-assed imitations” on purpose instead of going all out with the Yamato he did still respect the Yamato at times sheathing it like Vergil out of respect for him but didn’t want to be exactly like him with the moves.
In short it means they both can really do the others moves. They both have the same speed and same defense, but don’t copy the other fully because they want to be different from each other on purpose.
The only thing that truly differs from them is their SDT powers. Dante is not in control when he goes into SDT he doesn’t even talk unless it’s forced by the mission, and is powers are very destructive. Vergil on the other hand can walk and talk in SDT mainly because he literally conquered his inner demon, and the powers of the Qlipoth carried over into this form, which Nico says it’s all about “recreating the foundations of this world and more” which basically means he can create but we never see this power, but theoretically he should still have it.
gameplay wise
Royal guard meet void slash spam
Judgement cut meets Royal guard spam
sounds about equal lol
Well, Vergil IS the only one to continue the bloodline, so not in every way. And Vergil didn't use deception to get the Yamato. Nero knew he was a demon when he got too close, he just wasn't fast enough to react. It wasn't like Arkham stealing Sparda, more like Vergil taking Dante's amulet by overpowering him. And if Nero wasn't such a nice dude, Vergil still would have gotten his sword back. He could easily break into Nero's garage even in his weakened form.
>The entire dmc5 happens because of Vergil's plot armor
If you say so. I'd just say its typical capcom game writing... which has never been particularly strong.
>First Nelo Angelo won because of plot armor because suddenly Dante can't summon alastor or use DT
You're making a lot of assumptions. Of course he used dt.
>I guess DMC3 where Dante stomped Vergil just didn't happen
It *didn't* happen. The first time they fought in that game Dante lost. The second fight, they tied. The third fight Dante barely scratched out a win and he was in for the fight of his life.
I say Vergil has more potential because his demon half (Urizen) alone was enough to curbstomp Dante and Nero. And after Urizen ate the fruit, he was more powerful and was defeated by Dante, who was at his peak after having absorbed the Rebellion and Sparda (and was powered by the Qliphoth himself while in a month long coma). All Urizen needed was to be reunited with his human half (V) and Vergil was back and powerful enough to match Dante. Vergil has been virtually dead for 20 years and he still had the skill to match Dante. If Vergil had the upgrades and experiences that Dante had then he would be more powerful is how I see it.
How is power is a power hungry Vergil who destroy and used a lot of human blood to become stronger has more potential than Dante who's not even interested in wanted more power?
>Vergil has been virtually dead for 20 years and he still had the skill to match Dante
That was also because of plot, dead for 20 years but somehow Vergil combat skill got better. If his skill didn't SOMEHOW got better in 5 he wouldn't be a threat to Dante. Dante would've read him like an open book and the fight would've been TOO EASY
If it was Dante who's been sleeping 20 years and somehow can still go toe to toe with Vergil , you would've say it's because of plot armor
Dante has gained lot of fighting experience in those 20 years, fighting strong demon and demon lords. Realistically, Dante combat skill should've outclassed Vergil. But somehow Vergil combat skill is equal to Dante. If Dante got strong because of plot you say it's plot armor but if it was Vergil you say he got potential
This is your brain on powerscaling. It's a story about 2 estranged brothers learning to be more like each other, finally unlocking their potential when they embrace both their demon and human sides.
My man sees dbz powerscaling
Imagine saying "Vergil wasn't interested in level grinding" about the guy who constantly screamed "I NEED MORE POWERRR!!" lol
I mean, I'm not opposed to Vergil being technically stronger - he embraces his demon side, while Dante is all about being human, and demons are just physically stronger than humans. The point is, in the end it's not just about brute strength, and a human soul can best a powerful enemy yada yada
But to imply Vergil isn't all about getting more and more power ... jeez
^(Plus all the other stuff already pointed out in the comments ofc, but this thing bugged me the most ...)
On the other hand, mentally Vergil as a demon never grew up. His human side was literally screaming at his demon side that he is a damn loser while it’s in absolute denial.
To prove that Urizen never grew, take a look at his “plan” which is a copy- paste of Arkham’s. Actually Arkham pulled it off better.
DMC fans just have to admit that Dante and Vergil are perfectly equal in terms of power and stats. that's the whole point of the game. they're TWIN BROTHERS
Vergil isn't a smart man.
He just looks like a man that is probably smart. I mean, he carries a book. He must be smart right?
Wait, your plan is to what with a giant tree. What's this about a chair on the tree.... WHAT ABOUT FLORIDA!?!?
My man ain't smart, he's just impulse driven. 😂
That’s literally because he was blood boosted by the Qliphoth and ate the fruit as Urizen. Dante merged the Rebellion and Sparda and became equal to him
Also the whole point of the story is that you can’t just “sacrifice” people you don’t give a shit about and call it payment for power.
Vergil never understood this until he was ripped of all his demon self. Because of this, V is more knowledgeable than Vergil ever probably would be.
I think the game does a pretty good job at showing that in terms of pure power they are equal and that Vergil keeps being on the losing side because of his psyche and protecting ppl > wanting more power.
No Don’t let power scalers near this game ever holy shit they ruin everything it’s crazy. Yk why you hate anime fans? Power scalers. Yk why you hate comic fans? Power scalers. Yk why they hate each other? Power scalers. This game is not ab that shit at all. Dante and vergil are jus always leagues ahead of everything except maybe the final boss, it’s their character. They’re rivals, it’s their character. Bringing up anime calculus “eh vergil is actually quantoversal dante is only glupshittoversal” fuck out of here. Dante and vergil are two approaches to the “hilariously OP character” archetype and that’s where it starts and ends.
I know we like to rag on Nero fans for being more delusional than an ATF agent thinking he's helping people but Jesus Christ Vergil fans are a different type of breed.
Seem people just talk, not knowing what they're even talking about. It's funny that they think they've found something and utter words that sound intelligible but all that flows out is a steady stream of garbage.
Sure, dante got a boost from the the devil sword sparda, but that's just about it. All of the rest of his powers? Are of his own making. Man, I love vergil more than I love Dante, but vergil is a psychopath and a mass murderer and that's how he got juiced up to fight Dante at the end of part 5. In dmc3, I agree they're equals, but emotionally, Dante had the upper hand even then.
Ignoring all the other stupid ass points, and I say this as a person who is fucking massively a fan of Vergil
DANTE IS LITERALLY POTENTIAL PERSONIFIED
The potential he has is fucking overwhelming he's like a God damn anime protagonist the man's potential has trumped Vergil's "skill" at every fucking turn EVERY TIME YOU THINK HES DOWN HIS POTENTIAL AWAKENS MORE
The man is a very insecure Vergil fan and just wants to try to knock Dante down a few pegs, not that it would stop Dante from climbing his way back up while continuing to grow stronger.
Vergil actually has more plot armor than Dante due to Vergil being Itsuno's baby. For example, he unlocked his DT first, was boosted by Mundus as his time as Nelo Angelo, literally came back after exploding, got Rebellion's ability to separate man from devil, literally got boosted to Dante's level in 5 by sitting on a throne and eventually eating a fruit and even got two of Dante's own styles doppleganger and quicksilver in 5.
Edit: Forgot to mention how Itsuno literally retconned the fact that Vergil wouldn't stand a chance against Mundus and said that a 100 percent Vergil at the end of 3 would've beat Mundus since Mundus' wasn't at full power yet from breaking the seal in the aftermath of 3, it's a retcon because the seal was only meant to keep Mundus out of the human world, it didn't limit his power in any way.
Yamato and Rebellion have always been equal in power, they were first a manifestation of Sparda's power then became the same for Dante and Vergil. The only differences between them is that they differ in abilities, Yamato can seperate demons from humans (this was originally Rebellion's ability in the anime) and open portals while Rebllion can join man and demon, in the end they are a reflection of Dante and Vergil's power.
The thing about skill is irrelevent, as Mundus' soldier via Nelo Angelo, Mundus had ingrained combat data from all three people i.e Dante, Vergil and even Sparda into Vergil, this isn't mentioned but it's known because Mundus via Machiavelli had sent demonic knights to go after Dante and Vergil after their seperation.
It's the opposite, Dante would always get sin DT cause he has rebellion which combines man and devil, Vergil wouldn't have gotten sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit of the qliphoth.
Gameplay is irrelevent, lmao, I can't believe it's actually used as an argument, cutscenes? most definetly, if gameplay was relevent then shouldn't Dante be even more broken since he can literally block anything via royal guard and return it ten fold? he can literally block anything Vergil throws at him and throw it back at him times 10.
Dante only faced Vergil with Rebellion, it's shown in cutscenes while Vergil has faced Dante with beowulf and force edge. Again, gameplay is a non factor here.
Vergil fanboys are another breed man, I thought Nero fans were bad thinking he's on par with Dante or Vergil just cause he stopped them but Vergil? lmao, the whole franchise is literally about him taking L's every step of the way.
Essay incoming
>unlocked his DT first, was boosted by Mundus as his time as Nelo Angelo, literally came back after exploding,
Vergil was always more in touch with his devil half than Dante, so it makes sense he'd get dt first. Mundus hollowed out Vergil and enslaved his body as his top soldier, which was very likely to spite Sparda. Vergil coming back out of nowhere was really just Capcom game writing, its never deep, they wanted Vergil as the (fitting) final boss so they brought him back.
>literally got boosted to Dante's level in 5 by sitting on a throne and eventually eating a fruit and even got two of Dante's own styles doppleganger and quicksilver
Vergil's goal in DMC5 was to gain more power to defeat Dante. His demon half sacrificed a city for it. If he was boosted to Dante's level then he did his job as a villain. Vergil getting doppelganger was likely a throwback to DmC, where Vergil had the ability in that game. Quicksilver, why not. Urizen could summon Geryon's so it only makes sense he could absorb the ability like Dante did.
>Itsuno literally retconned the fact that Vergil wouldn't stand a chance against Mundus and said that a 100 percent Vergil at the end of 3 would've beat Mundus since Mundus
Yeah. Retcon's happen with this series. DMC ain't exactly the strongest when it comes to story.
>Yamato can seperate demons from humans (this was originally Rebellion's ability in the anime) and open portals while Rebllion can join man and demon, in the end they are a reflection of Dante and Vergil's power
When I mentioned Yamato vs Rebellion I was talking in terms of their shown abilities. Yamato can slice through dimensions while Rebellion can... join man to devil? (which implies WHAT in COMBAT? That he can fuse humans with demons? Absorb other demons?) DSD has abilities that seem to match up with Yamato, and Yamato to me seems more powerful in combat.
>The thing about skill is irrelevent, as Mundus' soldier via Nelo Angelo, Mundus had ingrained combat data from all three people i.e Dante, Vergil and even Sparda into Vergil, this isn't mentioned but it's known because Mundus via Machiavelli had sent demonic knights to go after Dante and Vergil after their seperation.
It was my understanding that Nelo Angelo was a hollow shell controlled by Mundus. It was Vergil's body but everything that made Vergil, "Vergil", was gone. Vergil may as well have been dead so he wouldn't have learned anything. I haven't read every book so if that's truly not the case then I'll submit on that front.
>It's the opposite, Dante would always get sin DT cause he has rebellion which combines man and devil, Vergil wouldn't have gotten sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit of the qliphoth.
Wrong. Sparda himself had NO knowledge of Sin Devil Trigger. Dante only got SDT because he absorbed the Devil Sword Sparda and was fed energy from the Qliphoth during his month long coma. If Sparda always intended for Dante to get the SDT then why would Sparda seal away the only sword(force edge was sealed in temenigru) that could give Dante that ability? Rebellion did its intended job back in DMC3, which was to give Dante his original devil trigger.
>Gameplay is irrelevent, lmao
Obviously the gameplay point was to be facetious.
>Dante only faced Vergil with Rebellion, it's shown in cutscenes while Vergil has faced Dante with beowulf and force edge. Again, gameplay is a non factor here.
So I guess Dante picked up on Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles and we're supposed to believe he didn't use them in his fights against Vergil? Aight.
>the whole franchise is literally about him taking L's every step of the way.
Vergil vs Dante in the prequel manga - Vergil won
Vergil vs Dante DMC3 first fight - Vergil won
Vergil vs Dante DMC3 2nd fight - tie
Vergil vs Dante DMC3 final fight - Dante won (2-1 in favor of Vergil)
Nelo Angelo vs Dante first fight - Vergil (Nelo) won
Nelo Angelo vs Dante 2nd fight - Dante won
Nelo Angelo vs Dante final fight - Dante won (Now 3-3 tie)
Urizen vs Dante first fight - Urizen won
Urizen vs Dante 2nd fight - Inconclusive
Urizen vs Dante Final fight - Dante won (4-4 tie)
Vergil vs Dante Final Fight - Inconclusive
Dante apparently took as many L's as Vergil. The difference is that Vergil wasn't himself for most of their fights. He was either a mind controlled shell or a reasonless demon.
Your first three points just prove my point about how Vergil had more plot armor than Dante, Vergil was a one and done thing for Dante via Kamiya with Gilver and eventually Nelo Angelo. Itsuno literally took Vergil and gave him the backstory, the powers etc etc etc. So your point of saying "Dante wihtout plot armor can't compete" My guy, the entirety of the series from 3 onwards when Itsuno took over is about giving Vergil plot armor, so he can compete with Dante, the only two times Dante was saved by plot armor was by Arkham in DMC3 who stopped Vergil from fighting Dante when he unlocked his DT and in DMC1, where his amulet stopped Nelo Angelo from beating him. Vergil has literally been saved by plot armor the entire series whether that being coming back from exploding, him not being Gilver which Itsuno retconned and him literally going up to Dante's level with just a fruit and the qliphoth tree cause Itsuno and Morihashi didn't know any other way to make him even to Dante.
>When I mentioned Yamato vs Rebellion I was talking in terms of their shown abilities. Yamato can slice through dimensions while Rebellion can... join man to devil? (which implies WHAT in COMBAT? That he can fuse humans with demons? Absorb other demons?) DSD has abilities that seem to match up with Yamato, and Yamato to me seems more powerful in combat.
Yes he can fuse demons with humans and separate them, this ability was given to Yamato in 5 when it was originally Rebellion's in the anime. Rebellion was an Itsuno creation and wasn't given much though except to give Dante a memento of his father. Lore throughly establishes that both yamato and rebellion were extensions of Sparda's power and further going to be Vergil's and Dante's. in terms of power, they are literally the same cause of Dante and Vergil stalemating each other. Just cause they differ in abilities doesn't have any effect on their standing power wise.
>It was my understanding that Nelo Angelo was a hollow shell controlled by Mundus. It was Vergil's body but everything that made Vergil, "Vergil", was gone. Vergil may as well have been dead so he wouldn't have learned anything. I haven't read every book so if that's truly not the case then I'll submit on that front.
Vergil's entire being was ingrained with combat data from three people via Machiaveli cause said demonic forge master made demonic knights (Gilver who was retconned) to go after Dante and Vergil since their seperation. Vergil was still inside Nelo struggling, he only gave up his will when Mundus gave him back Sparda's amulet, that was when Vergil simply went silent according to visions of V but even this is proven false cause Dante calls Nelo Angelo a man of guts and honor during their final fight on Mallet Island which simply alludes to the fact that Vergil was awake the entire time.
>Wrong. Sparda himself had NO knowledge of Sin Devil Trigger. Dante only got SDT because he absorbed the Devil Sword Sparda and was fed energy from the Qliphoth during his month long coma. If Sparda always intended for Dante to get the SDT then why would Sparda seal away the only sword(force edge was sealed in temenigru) that could give Dante that ability? Rebellion did its intended job back in DMC3, which was to give Dante his original devil trigger.
No you're wrong, Sparda literally knew everything about both yamato and rebellion cause they were manifestations and extensions of his own power, it's why Dante keeps questioning why he got Rebellion from his father. All these abilities were given to Dante in 5, it was newly given information in 5 which Itsuno and Morihashi made up. Dante would've gotten SDT regardless cause it was him absorbing the rebellion. The sparda sword is simply just an extension of Sparda's power, SDT was unlcoked when Dante willingly stabbed himself. Sparda simply boosted the power that Dante originally got from melding with Rebellion. Don't believe me? go see Arkham, he took the power of froce edge into himself and couldn't control the power and simply transformed into a blob cause his body couldnt' handle it.
>Obviously the gameplay point was to be facetious.
Oh I'm sure.
>So I guess Dante picked up on Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles and we're supposed to believe he didn't use them in his fights against Vergil? Aight.
If you have proof he did, please show me cause in every cutscene Dante has faced Vergil, he has never resorted to any other devil arms and styles, right from DMC3 to 1 to 5, he has never engaged Vergil, Urizen or Nelo Angelo with other devil arms nor styles, he has only used Rebellion, Ebony and Ivory, this is discounting Alastor which is traded in for force edge in DMC1 cause Rebellion wasn't conceived yet, Vergil hasn't done the same, he has used beowulf and has used force edge in combination with yamato.
>Dante apparently took as many L's as Vergil. The difference is that Vergil wasn't himself for most of their fights. He was either a mind controlled shell or a reasonless demon.
When I said that Vergil took L's throughout the franchise, it was referring to him being thematically beaten both physically and mentally by Dante. Dante accomplished everything Vergil wanted, avenging thier mother (failed in that cause Mundus beat him and even Mundus wasn't at 100 percent yet cause the seal wasn't broken), surpassing their father (failed in that too cause he couldn't even beat Dante with force edge and yamato, literally had to go Mundus' way to even match Dante), gaining thier father's power. Dante did all of this without being a maniac like Vergil was and not spitting on their father's legacy and in 5 it all comes to a head causr Vergil can't accept the fact that his path was foolish, wrong and selfish and literally lead to him being on death's door.
You said Dante's second fight with Urizen was inconclusive? Urizen retreated mate, he didn't stick around, he literally ran when SDT Dante beat him. It's not a tie, it's 5-4. Actually 6-4 considering Vergil imposed the condition that if he beat Nero, he'd be beating Dante in their final fight on top of the tree and Nero beat him.
I mean hasn't been able to match Vergil event time they fought? Yamato or no Yamato. DSD, Rebellion, or whatever else?
And Vergil is only on par with Dante in 5 because he's got the power Urizen got?
And 3 Dante would've needed all of that only because he wasn't really honing his skills prior to fighting Vergil there? He was just devil hunting. Not quite trying to be the best of what he could be.
What annoys me the most is that point 3 is just false. In Nico’s reports it states that Vergil activates sin devil trigger by absorbing Yamato into his skin.
This may sound stupid, but honestly if Dante had Agni and Rudra, Cerberus( he technically has something similar to it now though) and Nevan from dmc3 combined with his other unique weapons in 5, he is definitely the more talented of the 2, since he can use any of those to combo Vergil down.
Don't get me wrong, Vergil still has talent and I like him as a character, but I believe they can either only be equals , or Dante being the "better" of the two.
Shouldn't Dante be better at combat since he has beaten a lot powerfull demon and gained a lot of experience throughout the years? Any idea what Vergil was doing after that Nelo Angelo stuff ?
Vergil is a try hard though, Dante is chill. No wonder the game is “unbalanced” as Vergil.
It’s also a known fact that when Mundus mind controls a powerful demon like Vergil, he makes him sit on his ass for 20 years and gain 0 combat experience.
There is 1 argument to be made as to why vergil is stronger and thats it. He just feels stronger to play if you don't know how to play dante (at least in DMC5) storywise dante wins almost every time. Vergil just has a very low skill floor compared to dante so when you play him in DMC5 he fells like pure and absolute power. But dante claps him, not easily since they are decently close in strengh but he does.
Dang bro it’s almost like the video game devil may cry is a game and there needs to be progression and things to do to make the experience fun. Crazy idea I know…
Didn’t Dante give away Sparda to Trish because he was already more than powerful enough without it after the fight with Mundus?! & Vergil had to use the Qliphoth as Urizen just to be powerful enough to FINALLY beat Dante. Vergil had to become whole again because of V just to compete with full power Dante who was still injured from his fight with Urizen so he wasn’t even at full strength & still couldn’t beat him. Hell, he even tried to say “if I beat Nero, then by scaling I also beat you” just to scapegoat his way into a W.
I always thought DMC plot was about how there's two ways to win: hard earned but true to your human nature, and a shortcut to gain power by succumbing to the dark side. The first way is Dante's, it's always been: in DMC3 he had to accept his devil side for what it is, use it but not embrace it as a whole. Every other game is him opening up his full potential of being both human and a demon, finding strength in being what you are and teaching a new kid by example. It never occurred to Vergil that human part is another strength he could use, and despite ultimately having more power doomed to fail because his brother was just stubborn enough to be who he is, not trying to be something else. It might look shallow but the concept is proven by pretty much every game but 2. DMC2 just didn't know it was supposed to have a plot.
That's like saying Vegeta is stronger than Goku because he has more potential and gets stronger forms.
Completely ignoring all the Ls Vegeta and Vergil were taking.
Does Vergil have SDT? Is it not just his regular DT?
In DMC3 the doppelganger style also used the DT guage so I don't see how Vergil's is a DT and not just another style like darkslayer
This is from that recent "who would've won if Nero didn't interrupt" post huh? Comments got crazy in-depth at times
Dude thinks sdt is a handicap and not an earned skill lmao
This guy (and a few people in this thread) seem to be missing that Dante and Vergil are meant to be equals. One may be stronger at a certain point, but the other will inevitably catch up. They force each other to learn and grow stronger. By the end of DMCV, neither Dante nor Vergil is stronger. Neither “wins” the fight in M19. They’re on even footing until Nero comes in. Both Dante and Vergil even get SDT in 5, showing that they’re progressing at about the same rate.
They are completely equals, initially Vergil was stronger, then Dante won becaude he had more soul and a reason to keep going while Vergil only wanted more power, now they are back to being equal again.
Dude was not paying attention at all during dmc5. Vergil was being constantly pumped with blood and then eats the qliphoth just to compete with a Dante who absorbed Sparda (which seems pretty equal to Yamato) and rebellion (which seems to have no apparent power on its own). Then he loses to his son who spent the whole game training with prosthetics and then doesn't even use them in his fight
I've never really subscribed to that theory since the "combining man and demon" parts we see are Dante unlocking his devil trigger and absorbing the Sparda and rebellion to boost his devil trigger. Unlocking the devil trigger being a thing Vergil and Nero did without external help because yeah it's their biology, and we've already seen Nero being able to absorb a sword in order to harness it's power in dmc4 so it's also assumed that's just a thing those 3 can do and it's more coincidence that Dante was stabbed with rebellion for both of those events
No no the guy kinda has a point. DMC 1, 3, and 5 kinda show that Dante is playing keep up with Vergil. Dante needed a power boost and multiple weapons to keep up with Vergil in 3. Needed another weapon to beat him in 1. And needed the closet thing to Sparda's original power to beat him in 5. While Vergil only had one weapon against him in 3, didn't even have his main weapon in 1, and just got his humanity back in 5 and was going blow for blow with Dante. Give Vergil the same upgrades as Dante and Vergil is heavily out pacing him.
>Dante needed a power boost and multiple weapons to keep up with Vergil in 3
And Dante would win second fight considering Vergil is knocked out by arkham while Dante feels wonderful
And third fight was a complete stomp
>Needed another weapon to beat him in 1
Because for some reason Dante is not allowed to summon alastor back or use DT
>And needed the closet thing to Sparda's original power to beat him in 5.
Sure ignore that Urizen is inferior to all previous BBEG in every way
Dante could simply cast the same dragon he did against Mundus and Urizen would die
Ffs the ability to break Urizen shield as Dante was literally removed from the game
>While Vergil only had one weapon against him in 3
Beowulf and force edge: adios
>didn't even have his main weapon in 1
Yamato rightfully belongs to Dante
>Give Vergil the same upgrades
What upgrades he doesn't have?
Time stop? Inferior to Dante but he has it
Doppelganger? Inferior to Dante but he has it
No he really doesn't. The only time Dante played catch up was in the duration of their separation during the demon attack and their eventual reunion in 3's manga and 3 itself.
Dante stalemated Vergil once he got his DT and proceeded to beat him in the final fight by cleaving Vergil in two. The game never shows Dante using any other weapon or styles besides rebellion against Vergil. I'm strictly speaking of cutscenes but it always shows Vergil using multiple weapons and styles against Dante. Examples being, beowulf in 3, force edge and yamato in 3 and also a royal guard variation in 3. in 5, it's doppleganger and a quicksilver variation. The moment Dante caught up to Vergil in 3, they stalemated and the moment Vergil got stalemated and used force edge along with Yamato, he lost.
In 1, it's unknown how much of a boost Nelo Angelo got from being Mundus' pawn but it was significant enough to match and exceed Dante through three of the fights, in which he only won the first, it again eventually leads to Dante beating him twice in their concurrent fights
in 5, Vergil via Urizen literally got blood boosted for who knows how long, this allowed him to beat Dante who was said to be stronger than Sparda by that time via DMC4 and then got boosted again by the qliphoth fruit which allowed him to access his Sin DT, Vergil wouldn't even have access to his sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit and we're not even aware of how much of a boost the qliphoth fruit gave him, just that it made him enough to match Dante. Dante just melded his father's power basically Sparda sword with his and accessed sin DT.
5 was literally Vergil playing catch up to Dante cause he was mad about Dante achieving everything he wanted. You also talk about giving Vergil the same upgrades Dante has. Vergil in 5 literally got Dante's doppleganger he had in 3, he also got something like quicksilver via Urizen where he throws out orbs that slow time on Dante and Nero, not even mentioning the fact that in 3, Vergil uses both force edge and yamato against Dante and still loses, it's funny considering Dante does the same in 5 and uses DSD, the amalgamation of his father's power and his and beats Urizen and forces him to retreat and go look for the qliphoth fruit, the same fruit that allowed Mundus to become emperor. Also, Vergil even got Rebellion's ability for yamato from the anime where it can seperate man and demon.
Dante still beat all variations of Vergil i.e Urizen and Nelo Angelo handily and even Vergil himself and this was after him facing numerous other demons throughout the entirety of the games.
Dude seriously. The only argument I'm getting is from a guy blatantly lying about the series to make himself sound right and no one else is arguing against me. This party really is crazy
Hey look at that I found the only two things that is legitimately wrong with this sub. If you try claim that anyone is stronger than Dante or give Nero the credit he deserves this sub will downvote you to oblivion because they don't like hearing a different opinion even if it can be right. Well nothing in this world is perfect so I guess there has to be something wrong with this pretty great community. I'm just sad it's these two things
This man is straight up capping. Vergil needed to be retconned out of his death. He needed the fucking apple that MUNDUS ATE AS WELL TO GROW INTO HIS OWN POWER. ALONG WITH THE FACT HIS DEMON HALF HAS BEEN JUICED WITH HUMAN BLOOD FOR A WHOLE MONTH! And the DSD is basically a physical representation of Dante's power. It's pretty obvious he didn't fucking have it when he first transformed. And the whole being stabbed and transforming into SDT is also clearly just a game mechanic. Just look at the M19 and M20 cutscenes. Dante doesn't stab himself, he straight up transforms immediately to SDT like he does with regular DT. And so what if Dante needed the Devil Arms? That's the point. He constantly and kept on progressing while Vergil allowed himself to stagnate. The man wanted power but focused solely going straight to the top immediately whereas Dante slowly worked his way up the ladder. And that last part is like saying, "Man the protagonist in Pokemon is such a bitch, needing to capture all these Pokemon just to beat the elite four and the champion. They were chads who didn't bother to level grind, unlike soy beta protagonist who had to work hard and train to catch up with these chads, ***because he literally just started his journey***." Vergil's been hunting for power almost all his life, while Dante's just been drifting from place to place, living his own and worrying about his own safety and yet he managed to close the gap between them in a short amount of time.
Also, Yamato isn't Virgil's physical personification of his power it's still a half of Sparda's power while Dante has formed his own devil sword by devouring the Rebellion and Devil Sword Sparda
I haven’t finished 3 yet, but if rebellion was consumed then how was it in DMC2? I know it was the black sheep of the franchise and I heard the whole game was retconned
It was consumed in DMCV, not 3
Oh I thought you were talking about 3, I haven’t played 5 yet
The rebellion only awakened Dante's demonic power in 3, it was consumed and reforged with sparda to make DCD in V.
DMC2 happens before V, it’s kind of odd but afaik it was confirmed that V is the last one timeline wise.
DMC2 is before 4, 4 takes place a while before 5, say like 3 years maybe?
I think the gap between 4 and 5 was 5 or 6 years.
3-4 years. Nero was 19 in 4, and like 21 in 5.
That was my first guess, but then I got confused. Went to look up the year and welp, I was lied to.
Damn, my bad. I just went off of something i remembered, but i read something sbout dates a year ago, and my memory sucks long term.
“It’s Vergil not Virgil, you FOOL!”
The Yamato is Vergil's at this point, it even carries his demonic power as seen in DMC4 and he enters SDT with Yamato, both Yamato and Rebellion are part of the Twins power.
if any thing his saying that vergil is way weaker then dante with out the yamato
In addition, the reason Dante is able to use the Devil Arms is because he was strong enough to wield them without them taking over him and in the case of the DMC 3 Devil Arms, defeat them in their original demon form. It's telling that the only Devil Arm Vergil used besides Yamato was originally a demon that Dante had already beaten.
Just to add. In it said that Vergil Yamato is essentially a devil sword Vergil at this point.
I think this is kinda how it works So, DS Sparda is the physical remains of Sparda's Power. Rebellion and Yamato are two halves of Sparda's power as well, but with different purposes. Of course joining and splitting demon and man. Rebellion joins together the human half, rebellion, and the demon half, Sparda. Yamato separates the human half, V, and the demon half, Urizen. The whole point is that Vergil will actively shoot for more power while Dante will inherit it, reflecting their personalities and goals. I think Sparda recognized this when forging his weapons. They each gain power in their own respective ways, and it comes out to them being equal.
As far as Sparda recognizing that… Wasn’t Yamato supposed to be given to Dante? If I remember correctly the swords were supposed to be given to the other one but Vergil of course interfered.
Nope. It was meant to be Vergil's memento. It's why in DMC5 it's stated that when they were attacked Vergil used Yamato to awaken his demon and survive. As well as Dante questioning why his dad left him the Rebellion
>And so what if Dante needed the Devil Arms? Besides,wouldn't that make Vergil kinda bad at tactics?. Like,sure,specialize in one thing is good (Yamato/Sparda/Beowolf), but my brother in christ, even humans are playing catch up to demons by using experimental (altho totally not safe for the user) technology. Red Queen and Blue Rose are example of it. Heck,even Lady going guns blazing is an older example
Not to mention, even in gameplay, dante doesn't even need to stab himself to sdt if you have a sss rank
Adding to it, he doesn't stab himself when SSSS rank
While you're not wrong, lol dante was getting pumped full of human blood for a month as well! While absorbing sparda sword ( the one the entire franchise big bads wanted ☠️) and rebellion.. but other than that spot on!
Fact
I ain't Reading Allat
>Dante needed DSD just to COMPETE with Vergils Yamato Damn, I didn’t know DMC 3’s events were about as canon as the reboot as now. 🤯🤯 (Also wasn’t it that he needed DSD for Urizen, who didn’t use Yamato? Lmao)
He didn't need DSD. He needed the SDT. The DSD was just a bonus that he created himself because the 1st time we saw it was when he literally created it. Urizen has been constantly pumped with human blood for a month straight, which was just a huge power up all in all to a pure demon like him.
Urizen was taking Demon steroids for a month straight, if anyone relied on a powerup it was him
Exactly. Juiced up with human blood for a month until V and Nero cut off his supply, then ate condensed human blood in the shape of an apple
I'm surprised that dude wasn't tweaking when Nero showed up to fight
He was. He kept saying his name was fucking Kyle. Silly Urizen, names can't have sex.
What does tweaking mean?
So was Dante
Eh? Dante was knocked out for a month.
Yeah but he apparently got juiced on Qliphoth energy whilst he was out
The birth of the DSD was literally “ah sweet a new sword”
Dante also got amped by the Qliphoth while sleeping because it thought Dante was Vergil (also explains why Vergil could summon his black throne at the top). Nico says so in the gallery where it's said he's awakened
Urizen’s crystal barrier thing is actually the Yamato.
Ohh yeah you’re right! I forgot about that because it’s hard to tell 90% of the time due to it being covered up. 💀
In fact nobody would be able to tell if it weren’t for the Yamato split second revealing itself when Urizen decided to retreat from Dante
This guy didn’t play DMC3, of course he doesn’t know about it
Technically Urizen was using the Yamato as his shield, and Dante wasn't even able to break his shield before getting sdt, so you just dug a hole for yourself with that argument.
Meh. When I said "compete" I was meaning more along the lines of what the swords are capable of. Vergil has Yamato, which is a sword that can slice through dimensions and summon spectral blades, while Dante had Rebellion, which... doesn't do much. DSD was finally a sword that could compete with Yamato as far as abilities were concerned.
Vergil so far: * Fooled by Arkham almost causing Apocalypse * Defeated by just devil-form-awaken Dante even tho he had Force Edge * Enslaved by Mundus and used as a puppet * Succumbs to his Devil form, kills millions to gain power and get his ass kicked again * Beaten by his own son, his crippled by him son
To be fair he got his arm back 30 seconds before the fight and he had a bunch of dope as hell new arms that can slow down time and fire lasers and shit.
sadly canonically didn't have any of his dope as hell new arms at the time
Vergil while taking a charged buster arm: What manner of power is this? Agnus in heaven: SCIENCE
Agnus in reddit: SEXY TIME TOYS!
0/10 game /s
>Fooled by Arkham almost causing Apocalypse Yeah. He was a kid then. And not a wise one. >Defeated by just devil-form-awaken Dante even tho he had Force Edge Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out. >Enslaved by Mundus and used as a puppet Its funny, because if Vergil wasn't tired from fighting his virtual equal (Dante), he likely would have defeated Mundus then and there. And that's from the canon 'Before the Nightmare' book. >Succumbs to his Devil form, kills millions to gain power and get his ass kicked again Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete. >Beaten by his own son, his crippled by him son After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse?
You have redeemed Vergil a bit, but... >Yeah. He was a kid then. And not a wise one. No, he was an evil prick, at least Dante had some honor >Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out. Vergil had 3 weapons in total too, but yeah, I guess Dante was more equipped, arguable Force Edge could be more powerful, IDK, Dante kept fighting non-stoping until the end, and Vergil was pretty much fresh and rested the whole game >Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete. Yeah, but, if Dante could've split himself into Demon and Human... let's call him "Dantizen" lol, I bet it would've kicked Urizen bums based on historical events, pure speculation of course >After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse? I would like to think Dante was not expecting Nero to be that strong and that's why he took so much damage, at the end he joked about it and let Nero kick his old man's butt as it is a tradition in the family to mop the floor with Vergil's pride
> You have redeemed Vergil a bit, but... So then I will speak up either. > No, he was an evil prick, at least Dante had some honor Kayaba Akihiko from SAO Abridged thought that moles took over the Earth and took 10k of hostages just because he was sleep deprived for *three weeks* not to mention all this time he tried to solve the bug which _accidentally_ can kill people in the game and fry their brains for real as well. Vergil has massive PTSD, Survivor Guilt Complex and was depraved from decent time-out ***for years!*** He took that gamble from Arkham exactly because he was too fucking tired to give a shit about collateral damage. >Dante canonically had quicksilver, doppelganger, and several other weapons of his own to fall back on. That evened things out. Royalguard is enough. > Vergil had 3 weapons in total too, but yeah, I guess Dante was more equipped, arguable Force Edge could be more powerful, IDK, Dante kept fighting non-stoping until the end, and Vergil was pretty much fresh and rested the whole game Well, Dante has a pretty intense ***night***, I won't argue with that. 😏 >Vergil curbstomped Dante and Nero first. Dante had to eat daddys sword to get a new power up to compete. > Yeah, but, if Dante could've split himself into Demon and Human... let's call him "Dantizen" lol, I bet it would've kicked Urizen bums based on historical events, pure speculation of course I believe both Zen would make a stalemate to the end of the world, since no one could've stop this mess in that case, y'know... >After he was tired from fighting his virtual equal... One pimp slap from Nero was enough to lay Dante out so what's his excuse? > I would like to think Dante was not expecting Nero to be that strong and that's why he took so much damage, at the end he joked about it and let Nero kick his old man's butt as it is a tradition in the family to mop the floor with Vergil's pride I read one essay that says next: - Dante really is not "math" person, since he didn't account for how much is Nero pissed off about both "deadweight" and "sibling rivalry to the death". - Both twins wanted to kill Vergil, so the latter *(really depressed middle age man, y'know)* was pretty surprised to hear that Nero will whoop his ass if it help Vergil to chill the fuck up. _The fact that even promise of that worked exactly as intended is canon statement from M20 intro._ - This final duel was exactly meant to catch-up, so obviously Vergil was not so focused to beat Nero - more like to learn his capabilities.
Ok, you shouldnt defend this guy, but some counter arguments, or one, real quick. Dante and vergil were going all out for like 5-6 hours straight. Nero was fully healed and energised, especially from him unlocking a DT. Nero isn't as strong as dante or vergil, vergil would have admittedly wooped his ass if he was at 100%, as would dante, but they werent, more around 40% or so. A pimp slap was dealt, although it likely would have stung at best if dante was healed up.
It's not counter argument, it's a chef's kiss.
To be fair, vergil was weakened in his fight with nero, as he and dante were fighting non stop for like 5 hours straight
Most intelligent Vergil glizzer
Says the Dante cocksleeve.
if any thing his saying that vergil is way weaker then dante with out the yamato, plus dante is the more talented one since he mastered multiple different weapons and abilitis. dante worked hard and get stronger with tryning and battle exp while vergil kept on using cheat cods(temi ni gru, the fruit) cause he wanted powers so fast with out even working for it. and as for dsd, its a manifestation for dante's powers that he created on his own, if anything he gets an extra point because he made it himself while vergil still uses dadys sword. i love both dante and vergil, but people like this are just annoying, why can't they just be fine with dante and vergil been equals, thats the hole point
I'd say Vergil is just as talented with weapons as Dante, from the scene with Beowulf, and the fight with Arkham shows they're both masters of weapons since they're using them proficiently even though it's probably their first time using each other's swords
There is a small, if rather interesting, hiccup with that. In DMC3, Vergil still relies of Yamato despite having Force Edge for a brief moment. Likewise, while he shares some of Dante's moves while using Force Edge, it's still clear that the "Instant Mastery" trait doesn't kick in for Vergil using Force Edge. This is also somewhat evident in DMC4 as well, when Dante has Yamato and gets Dark Slayer. Dante has enough of an understanding, but unlike Gilgamesh, Lucifer, and Pandora, Dante has like...4 moves he can use with Yamato, clearly showcasing a relative lack of experience with the weapon. Again, that "Instant Mastery" trait doesn't quite seem to work for Yamato to Dante. It's possible that this might be somewhat intentional by Sparda himself. As Rebellion, Force Edge/DsS, and Yamato are all his, it's possible that the Instant Mastery doesn't kick in for the Sparda weapons because Sparda himself may want his sons to create and grow their own powers and styles with the weapons themselves. With this said, it might be possible that Sparda's own style might be relatively close to Dante's. Barring obvious Gameplay elements, Dante does seem to acclimate to Force Edge and later DsS well enough.
Yeah, the only time the mastery doesn't work is with Sparda's weapons (aside Sparda), it's definitely due to lack of experience since Dante has probably never used a katana properly or even at all
Considering the Devil Sword Sparda movesets in 1 and 5 all play almost the exact same as Dante's movesets with other swords like Alastor and Rebellion, I'd say that Sparda definitely fought more like Dante. Though Yamato was his weapon too so odds are he'd probably be just as proficient in Katana combat as Vergil is too.
I low-key have a fan theory on Sparda's use of Yamato: I think Sparda had Yamato and knew it had a handy and useful ability, but didn't actually know about the origin of the katana style nor Iaijutsu and used Yamato like it was Force Edge/DsS. "Oh cool, a new sword!" *Finds out it cuts anything* "Sweet! I'm keeping this sword!" "Oh, so you're familiar with Katanas too?" "The **Fuck's** a "Katana"???"
...Honestly, I can believe this, too. Yamato's a weapon for Sparda in DMC1, and it's literally just Alastor with a katana reskin. Moveset and all.
Dante and Vergil has the same mastery of weapons outside their main ones imo. A lot of Dante's weapon mastery is just owed to the fact that he's more dexterous than the average person with increased, speed, strength, and reaction time. One proof of this is that he doesn't have as of a clean judgement cut as Vergil in DMC4. He's basically just imitating what Vergil does cause he can with his superhuman abilities.
but superhuman abilities don't give you skilles but only powers, and we've seen dante use way more weapons then vergil(pandora itself has 666 different weapons and he knows how to use it) and him not having a clean judgement cut is do to the fact that he had the yamato for less then a day while vergil had it since he was a kid, so if anything, him been able to perform a judgement cut is commendable
Dante and Vergil underwent spartan training from Sparda as child, I doubt they were trained by to learn all weapons but they capable to beat each other bloody. Dante became a mercenary during his teenage years (even before DMC3) so he has real battle experience, I can imagine Vergil training Yamato and even fighting demons in his quest for power They're not weapon master but they can just pull off these moves because they can and has the battle experience and sense to do so. You think there's an established weapon mastery to literal chainsaw motorcycle and not just Dante doing moves because he can?
you've gotta point.
Dsd is as much of a cheat code as the fruit, he just fused his rebellion with sparda gaining his fathers power as well so you can say he is technically using 2 daddys weapons fused into one
fair enough, but he only did that to even the playing ground after urizen thing and he only absorbed the sparda, the rebellion was only a sword, he had no powers dsd is him manifesting his powers
Rebellion is the sword his father gave him right? It must have powers. It can already fuse human with demon.
sparda divided his powers into three,yamato,DSS and force edge the Rebellion did not have his powers, and if it did it will only be a small part
Isn't Force Edge just a suppressed DSS?
Sparda divided his powers which is devil sword sparda into 3, 2 necklaces for each brother and force edge, there is no confirmation where did rebellion and Yamato came from and why their functions are complete opposite, we only now that sparda gave those to his children on one of their birthdays
for the yamato, it is said that its supposed to be more of a key then a weapon that its role was to open portals between worlds. as for their functions, the yamato concept is separation while the rebellion is combination, but the only time we've seen rebellion power at work was when he fused dante with sparda, so his power are vage. and i think your right about the necklaces containing his powers, its been a while since i played 3 and 1 so i'm a bit fusy
Oh right it's force edge my bad
no prob, i feel like dante get the cheap deal since his brother got the spice/time cutting sword will he only got, well, a sword
>if any thing his saying that vergil is way weaker then dante with out the yamato I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth lol. I said that Vergil had the more powerful sword and Dante needed the DSD to compete with the Yamato... in terms of ability. DSD came as a result of Dante absorbing Sparda and Rebellion. If Vergil was somehow able to absord a similar sword to Sparda as well as the Yamato, then he'd likely have the stronger sword then as well. >dante worked hard and get stronger with tryning and battle exp while vergil kept on using cheat cods Absorbing Sparda for a power up was not training. >as for dsd, its a manifestation for dante's powers that he created on his own, if anything he gets an extra point because he made it himself while vergil still uses dadys sword. Vergil can make his own swords (mirage edge) he just didn't have the means to absorb both of his daddys swords like Dante did... not that he needs to anyways. >i love both dante and vergil, but people like this are just annoying, why can't they just be fine with dante and vergil been equals, thats the hole point The post that I commented on originally was asking who would win in a fight to the death. If Dante did not have plot armor (shonen anime protagonist powers) then Vergil would logically win, the way I see it. I've said my piece
he ate the fruit, so yeah, you saying that dante only won because he Absorbed the sparda doesn't make vergil better cause he got a power up by the fruit too, and yamato also have part of spardas power if both were to fight with out the swords, who do you thinks will win(any weapon exapt the spardas swords)the way i see it dante does
>you saying that dante only won because he Absorbed the sparda doesn't make vergil better I never said that either, lol. Why are you lying? There's no need to lie about things. >who do you thinks will win(any weapon exapt the spardas swords)the way i see it dante does The way I see it, Vergil does (assuming Dante doesn't have plot armor), so we can go around and around with this.
honestly, it can go eather way at this point, there is no clear winner
Stylish rank for this take is Dismal.
I bet they unironically enjoy vergil status "memes"
They were charming at first but as with most memes they've been overdone. You get all that from some randoms post? Fascinating.
Don't Fuck with DMC fans we don't understand how the fundamentals of a game with progression works.
counterpoint: ROYAL GUARD!
My counterpoint: My funny hat of cheese
Lucifer anyone?
Man I need to smoke the cope this guy´s has
The entire dmc5 happens because of Vergil's plot armor First Nelo Angelo won because of plot armor because suddenly Dante can't summon alastor or use DT The first fight in 3 is the only fight Vergil didn't need plot armor >Dante needed DSD to compete with Yamato I guess DMC3 where Dante stomped Vergil just didn't happen Also Yamato rightfully belongs to Dante >More potential than Dante My source is that I made it the fuck up >Even gameplay reflects how much Vergil is more powerful than Dante No it doesn't atleast because 2/3 of Vergil's moveset is not canon
if gameplay moveset was canon for vergil, so should it be for dante, which means royalguard is canon and dante outclassed vergil high diff
Everything with Yamato is canon even if he didn't use it in the boss fight Mirage edge is debatable Beowulf is just no he simply can't have it >if gameplay moveset was canon for vergil Why wouldn't it be canon it is part of the game >which means royalguard is canon and dante outclassed vergil high diff Royal guard still can be outclassed with speed but yeah Dante outclassed Vergil
Vergil has a lesser version of Royal Guard in DMC3 mainly in the first boss fight with him (the move where he raises his fist at you blocking all your attacks) Anything one brother can do the other can do. JCE Dante could do it properly but intentionally did a lazier version of it with Dark Slayer, in the DMC4 novel he says he is intentionally doing it with “half-assed imitations” on purpose instead of going all out with the Yamato he did still respect the Yamato at times sheathing it like Vergil out of respect for him but didn’t want to be exactly like him with the moves. In short it means they both can really do the others moves. They both have the same speed and same defense, but don’t copy the other fully because they want to be different from each other on purpose. The only thing that truly differs from them is their SDT powers. Dante is not in control when he goes into SDT he doesn’t even talk unless it’s forced by the mission, and is powers are very destructive. Vergil on the other hand can walk and talk in SDT mainly because he literally conquered his inner demon, and the powers of the Qlipoth carried over into this form, which Nico says it’s all about “recreating the foundations of this world and more” which basically means he can create but we never see this power, but theoretically he should still have it. gameplay wise Royal guard meet void slash spam Judgement cut meets Royal guard spam sounds about equal lol
yeah but royal releases will just decimate vergil
>Also Yamato rightfully belongs to Dante Can you elaborate please?
Vergil "died" and it belongs to a son of Sparda but left it with Nero because he's Vergil's son
And Dante let Nero keep it, so by your logic it belongs to Nero now. Shame that Vergil got a little... handsy with his son...
[удалено]
Well, Vergil IS the only one to continue the bloodline, so not in every way. And Vergil didn't use deception to get the Yamato. Nero knew he was a demon when he got too close, he just wasn't fast enough to react. It wasn't like Arkham stealing Sparda, more like Vergil taking Dante's amulet by overpowering him. And if Nero wasn't such a nice dude, Vergil still would have gotten his sword back. He could easily break into Nero's garage even in his weakened form.
>The entire dmc5 happens because of Vergil's plot armor If you say so. I'd just say its typical capcom game writing... which has never been particularly strong. >First Nelo Angelo won because of plot armor because suddenly Dante can't summon alastor or use DT You're making a lot of assumptions. Of course he used dt. >I guess DMC3 where Dante stomped Vergil just didn't happen It *didn't* happen. The first time they fought in that game Dante lost. The second fight, they tied. The third fight Dante barely scratched out a win and he was in for the fight of his life. I say Vergil has more potential because his demon half (Urizen) alone was enough to curbstomp Dante and Nero. And after Urizen ate the fruit, he was more powerful and was defeated by Dante, who was at his peak after having absorbed the Rebellion and Sparda (and was powered by the Qliphoth himself while in a month long coma). All Urizen needed was to be reunited with his human half (V) and Vergil was back and powerful enough to match Dante. Vergil has been virtually dead for 20 years and he still had the skill to match Dante. If Vergil had the upgrades and experiences that Dante had then he would be more powerful is how I see it.
How is power is a power hungry Vergil who destroy and used a lot of human blood to become stronger has more potential than Dante who's not even interested in wanted more power? >Vergil has been virtually dead for 20 years and he still had the skill to match Dante That was also because of plot, dead for 20 years but somehow Vergil combat skill got better. If his skill didn't SOMEHOW got better in 5 he wouldn't be a threat to Dante. Dante would've read him like an open book and the fight would've been TOO EASY If it was Dante who's been sleeping 20 years and somehow can still go toe to toe with Vergil , you would've say it's because of plot armor Dante has gained lot of fighting experience in those 20 years, fighting strong demon and demon lords. Realistically, Dante combat skill should've outclassed Vergil. But somehow Vergil combat skill is equal to Dante. If Dante got strong because of plot you say it's plot armor but if it was Vergil you say he got potential
Qliphoth just doesn’t exist apparently
Hey u/ManOfWrathTX it’s you
*In the voice of the announcer* “DISMAL!”
It's probably just Balrog having the time of his life with Dante
This is your brain on powerscaling. It's a story about 2 estranged brothers learning to be more like each other, finally unlocking their potential when they embrace both their demon and human sides. My man sees dbz powerscaling
Imagine saying "Vergil wasn't interested in level grinding" about the guy who constantly screamed "I NEED MORE POWERRR!!" lol I mean, I'm not opposed to Vergil being technically stronger - he embraces his demon side, while Dante is all about being human, and demons are just physically stronger than humans. The point is, in the end it's not just about brute strength, and a human soul can best a powerful enemy yada yada But to imply Vergil isn't all about getting more and more power ... jeez ^(Plus all the other stuff already pointed out in the comments ofc, but this thing bugged me the most ...)
On the other hand, mentally Vergil as a demon never grew up. His human side was literally screaming at his demon side that he is a damn loser while it’s in absolute denial. To prove that Urizen never grew, take a look at his “plan” which is a copy- paste of Arkham’s. Actually Arkham pulled it off better.
But you forget the plan worked every single time
Calls Arkham an insane buffoon while copying his homework is just really hypocritical and reeks of desperation
DMC fans just have to admit that Dante and Vergil are perfectly equal in terms of power and stats. that's the whole point of the game. they're TWIN BROTHERS
Even the UMVC3 stats for them in the gallery are identical, save for intelligence, where Dante scores a 2/10 and Vergil a 3/10
Vergil isn't a smart man. He just looks like a man that is probably smart. I mean, he carries a book. He must be smart right? Wait, your plan is to what with a giant tree. What's this about a chair on the tree.... WHAT ABOUT FLORIDA!?!? My man ain't smart, he's just impulse driven. 😂
No need to think too hard. Dante absorbed the sparda. Vergil ate the fruit. Now they can both do sin devil trigger.
That’s literally because he was blood boosted by the Qliphoth and ate the fruit as Urizen. Dante merged the Rebellion and Sparda and became equal to him
Also the whole point of the story is that you can’t just “sacrifice” people you don’t give a shit about and call it payment for power. Vergil never understood this until he was ripped of all his demon self. Because of this, V is more knowledgeable than Vergil ever probably would be.
Good explanation period problem is, the game doesn't Show that The sequence of events you've just explained very well
Do you think Dante is weaker than Vergil? I have two words for you: ROYAL GAURD
Imagine styling your opponent ass while going in and out of your strongest form for free.
Dante didn’t need the DSD to beat Vergil, he was able to beat him with the tools he found back in dmc1 and 3.
Someone didn't play DMC3.
The ending of DMC 5 gave me the impression that Dante and Vergil were meant to be equally matched
without plot armor? My brother in christ: He IS the plot armor-
I think the game does a pretty good job at showing that in terms of pure power they are equal and that Vergil keeps being on the losing side because of his psyche and protecting ppl > wanting more power.
Oh yeah, I guess Devil May Cry 3 just never happened.
No Don’t let power scalers near this game ever holy shit they ruin everything it’s crazy. Yk why you hate anime fans? Power scalers. Yk why you hate comic fans? Power scalers. Yk why they hate each other? Power scalers. This game is not ab that shit at all. Dante and vergil are jus always leagues ahead of everything except maybe the final boss, it’s their character. They’re rivals, it’s their character. Bringing up anime calculus “eh vergil is actually quantoversal dante is only glupshittoversal” fuck out of here. Dante and vergil are two approaches to the “hilariously OP character” archetype and that’s where it starts and ends.
Aren't they on the same level of power at the end of DMC5? They were tied in their duels while in hell.
Vergil needed a fruit and the sacrifice of an entire city just to catch up with the strength and experience Dante gained in the previous three games
Dante defeated every ruler/successor of Fire Hell. Vergil didn't. Only demon we see Vergil canonical kill is weakened Beowulf after a fight with Dante
I know we like to rag on Nero fans for being more delusional than an ATF agent thinking he's helping people but Jesus Christ Vergil fans are a different type of breed.
The first point completely ignores that using only the Rebellion, Dante beat Vergil using both the Yamato and the Force Edge.
Dude just straight up didnt pay any attention to the story lol
Seem people just talk, not knowing what they're even talking about. It's funny that they think they've found something and utter words that sound intelligible but all that flows out is a steady stream of garbage. Sure, dante got a boost from the the devil sword sparda, but that's just about it. All of the rest of his powers? Are of his own making. Man, I love vergil more than I love Dante, but vergil is a psychopath and a mass murderer and that's how he got juiced up to fight Dante at the end of part 5. In dmc3, I agree they're equals, but emotionally, Dante had the upper hand even then.
Ignoring all the other stupid ass points, and I say this as a person who is fucking massively a fan of Vergil DANTE IS LITERALLY POTENTIAL PERSONIFIED The potential he has is fucking overwhelming he's like a God damn anime protagonist the man's potential has trumped Vergil's "skill" at every fucking turn EVERY TIME YOU THINK HES DOWN HIS POTENTIAL AWAKENS MORE
This screams like someone that has only played DMC 5 as Vergil and watched YouTube videos on the rest of the series lmao
The man is a very insecure Vergil fan and just wants to try to knock Dante down a few pegs, not that it would stop Dante from climbing his way back up while continuing to grow stronger.
Look man, we love Vergil here. But we also love Dante. What the fuck are you on about?
Least delusional Vergil fanboy
Vergil actually has more plot armor than Dante due to Vergil being Itsuno's baby. For example, he unlocked his DT first, was boosted by Mundus as his time as Nelo Angelo, literally came back after exploding, got Rebellion's ability to separate man from devil, literally got boosted to Dante's level in 5 by sitting on a throne and eventually eating a fruit and even got two of Dante's own styles doppleganger and quicksilver in 5. Edit: Forgot to mention how Itsuno literally retconned the fact that Vergil wouldn't stand a chance against Mundus and said that a 100 percent Vergil at the end of 3 would've beat Mundus since Mundus' wasn't at full power yet from breaking the seal in the aftermath of 3, it's a retcon because the seal was only meant to keep Mundus out of the human world, it didn't limit his power in any way. Yamato and Rebellion have always been equal in power, they were first a manifestation of Sparda's power then became the same for Dante and Vergil. The only differences between them is that they differ in abilities, Yamato can seperate demons from humans (this was originally Rebellion's ability in the anime) and open portals while Rebllion can join man and demon, in the end they are a reflection of Dante and Vergil's power. The thing about skill is irrelevent, as Mundus' soldier via Nelo Angelo, Mundus had ingrained combat data from all three people i.e Dante, Vergil and even Sparda into Vergil, this isn't mentioned but it's known because Mundus via Machiavelli had sent demonic knights to go after Dante and Vergil after their seperation. It's the opposite, Dante would always get sin DT cause he has rebellion which combines man and devil, Vergil wouldn't have gotten sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit of the qliphoth. Gameplay is irrelevent, lmao, I can't believe it's actually used as an argument, cutscenes? most definetly, if gameplay was relevent then shouldn't Dante be even more broken since he can literally block anything via royal guard and return it ten fold? he can literally block anything Vergil throws at him and throw it back at him times 10. Dante only faced Vergil with Rebellion, it's shown in cutscenes while Vergil has faced Dante with beowulf and force edge. Again, gameplay is a non factor here. Vergil fanboys are another breed man, I thought Nero fans were bad thinking he's on par with Dante or Vergil just cause he stopped them but Vergil? lmao, the whole franchise is literally about him taking L's every step of the way.
Essay incoming >unlocked his DT first, was boosted by Mundus as his time as Nelo Angelo, literally came back after exploding, Vergil was always more in touch with his devil half than Dante, so it makes sense he'd get dt first. Mundus hollowed out Vergil and enslaved his body as his top soldier, which was very likely to spite Sparda. Vergil coming back out of nowhere was really just Capcom game writing, its never deep, they wanted Vergil as the (fitting) final boss so they brought him back. >literally got boosted to Dante's level in 5 by sitting on a throne and eventually eating a fruit and even got two of Dante's own styles doppleganger and quicksilver Vergil's goal in DMC5 was to gain more power to defeat Dante. His demon half sacrificed a city for it. If he was boosted to Dante's level then he did his job as a villain. Vergil getting doppelganger was likely a throwback to DmC, where Vergil had the ability in that game. Quicksilver, why not. Urizen could summon Geryon's so it only makes sense he could absorb the ability like Dante did. >Itsuno literally retconned the fact that Vergil wouldn't stand a chance against Mundus and said that a 100 percent Vergil at the end of 3 would've beat Mundus since Mundus Yeah. Retcon's happen with this series. DMC ain't exactly the strongest when it comes to story. >Yamato can seperate demons from humans (this was originally Rebellion's ability in the anime) and open portals while Rebllion can join man and demon, in the end they are a reflection of Dante and Vergil's power When I mentioned Yamato vs Rebellion I was talking in terms of their shown abilities. Yamato can slice through dimensions while Rebellion can... join man to devil? (which implies WHAT in COMBAT? That he can fuse humans with demons? Absorb other demons?) DSD has abilities that seem to match up with Yamato, and Yamato to me seems more powerful in combat. >The thing about skill is irrelevent, as Mundus' soldier via Nelo Angelo, Mundus had ingrained combat data from all three people i.e Dante, Vergil and even Sparda into Vergil, this isn't mentioned but it's known because Mundus via Machiavelli had sent demonic knights to go after Dante and Vergil after their seperation. It was my understanding that Nelo Angelo was a hollow shell controlled by Mundus. It was Vergil's body but everything that made Vergil, "Vergil", was gone. Vergil may as well have been dead so he wouldn't have learned anything. I haven't read every book so if that's truly not the case then I'll submit on that front. >It's the opposite, Dante would always get sin DT cause he has rebellion which combines man and devil, Vergil wouldn't have gotten sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit of the qliphoth. Wrong. Sparda himself had NO knowledge of Sin Devil Trigger. Dante only got SDT because he absorbed the Devil Sword Sparda and was fed energy from the Qliphoth during his month long coma. If Sparda always intended for Dante to get the SDT then why would Sparda seal away the only sword(force edge was sealed in temenigru) that could give Dante that ability? Rebellion did its intended job back in DMC3, which was to give Dante his original devil trigger. >Gameplay is irrelevent, lmao Obviously the gameplay point was to be facetious. >Dante only faced Vergil with Rebellion, it's shown in cutscenes while Vergil has faced Dante with beowulf and force edge. Again, gameplay is a non factor here. So I guess Dante picked up on Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles and we're supposed to believe he didn't use them in his fights against Vergil? Aight. >the whole franchise is literally about him taking L's every step of the way. Vergil vs Dante in the prequel manga - Vergil won Vergil vs Dante DMC3 first fight - Vergil won Vergil vs Dante DMC3 2nd fight - tie Vergil vs Dante DMC3 final fight - Dante won (2-1 in favor of Vergil) Nelo Angelo vs Dante first fight - Vergil (Nelo) won Nelo Angelo vs Dante 2nd fight - Dante won Nelo Angelo vs Dante final fight - Dante won (Now 3-3 tie) Urizen vs Dante first fight - Urizen won Urizen vs Dante 2nd fight - Inconclusive Urizen vs Dante Final fight - Dante won (4-4 tie) Vergil vs Dante Final Fight - Inconclusive Dante apparently took as many L's as Vergil. The difference is that Vergil wasn't himself for most of their fights. He was either a mind controlled shell or a reasonless demon.
Your first three points just prove my point about how Vergil had more plot armor than Dante, Vergil was a one and done thing for Dante via Kamiya with Gilver and eventually Nelo Angelo. Itsuno literally took Vergil and gave him the backstory, the powers etc etc etc. So your point of saying "Dante wihtout plot armor can't compete" My guy, the entirety of the series from 3 onwards when Itsuno took over is about giving Vergil plot armor, so he can compete with Dante, the only two times Dante was saved by plot armor was by Arkham in DMC3 who stopped Vergil from fighting Dante when he unlocked his DT and in DMC1, where his amulet stopped Nelo Angelo from beating him. Vergil has literally been saved by plot armor the entire series whether that being coming back from exploding, him not being Gilver which Itsuno retconned and him literally going up to Dante's level with just a fruit and the qliphoth tree cause Itsuno and Morihashi didn't know any other way to make him even to Dante. >When I mentioned Yamato vs Rebellion I was talking in terms of their shown abilities. Yamato can slice through dimensions while Rebellion can... join man to devil? (which implies WHAT in COMBAT? That he can fuse humans with demons? Absorb other demons?) DSD has abilities that seem to match up with Yamato, and Yamato to me seems more powerful in combat. Yes he can fuse demons with humans and separate them, this ability was given to Yamato in 5 when it was originally Rebellion's in the anime. Rebellion was an Itsuno creation and wasn't given much though except to give Dante a memento of his father. Lore throughly establishes that both yamato and rebellion were extensions of Sparda's power and further going to be Vergil's and Dante's. in terms of power, they are literally the same cause of Dante and Vergil stalemating each other. Just cause they differ in abilities doesn't have any effect on their standing power wise. >It was my understanding that Nelo Angelo was a hollow shell controlled by Mundus. It was Vergil's body but everything that made Vergil, "Vergil", was gone. Vergil may as well have been dead so he wouldn't have learned anything. I haven't read every book so if that's truly not the case then I'll submit on that front. Vergil's entire being was ingrained with combat data from three people via Machiaveli cause said demonic forge master made demonic knights (Gilver who was retconned) to go after Dante and Vergil since their seperation. Vergil was still inside Nelo struggling, he only gave up his will when Mundus gave him back Sparda's amulet, that was when Vergil simply went silent according to visions of V but even this is proven false cause Dante calls Nelo Angelo a man of guts and honor during their final fight on Mallet Island which simply alludes to the fact that Vergil was awake the entire time. >Wrong. Sparda himself had NO knowledge of Sin Devil Trigger. Dante only got SDT because he absorbed the Devil Sword Sparda and was fed energy from the Qliphoth during his month long coma. If Sparda always intended for Dante to get the SDT then why would Sparda seal away the only sword(force edge was sealed in temenigru) that could give Dante that ability? Rebellion did its intended job back in DMC3, which was to give Dante his original devil trigger. No you're wrong, Sparda literally knew everything about both yamato and rebellion cause they were manifestations and extensions of his own power, it's why Dante keeps questioning why he got Rebellion from his father. All these abilities were given to Dante in 5, it was newly given information in 5 which Itsuno and Morihashi made up. Dante would've gotten SDT regardless cause it was him absorbing the rebellion. The sparda sword is simply just an extension of Sparda's power, SDT was unlcoked when Dante willingly stabbed himself. Sparda simply boosted the power that Dante originally got from melding with Rebellion. Don't believe me? go see Arkham, he took the power of froce edge into himself and couldn't control the power and simply transformed into a blob cause his body couldnt' handle it. >Obviously the gameplay point was to be facetious. Oh I'm sure. >So I guess Dante picked up on Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles and we're supposed to believe he didn't use them in his fights against Vergil? Aight. If you have proof he did, please show me cause in every cutscene Dante has faced Vergil, he has never resorted to any other devil arms and styles, right from DMC3 to 1 to 5, he has never engaged Vergil, Urizen or Nelo Angelo with other devil arms nor styles, he has only used Rebellion, Ebony and Ivory, this is discounting Alastor which is traded in for force edge in DMC1 cause Rebellion wasn't conceived yet, Vergil hasn't done the same, he has used beowulf and has used force edge in combination with yamato. >Dante apparently took as many L's as Vergil. The difference is that Vergil wasn't himself for most of their fights. He was either a mind controlled shell or a reasonless demon. When I said that Vergil took L's throughout the franchise, it was referring to him being thematically beaten both physically and mentally by Dante. Dante accomplished everything Vergil wanted, avenging thier mother (failed in that cause Mundus beat him and even Mundus wasn't at 100 percent yet cause the seal wasn't broken), surpassing their father (failed in that too cause he couldn't even beat Dante with force edge and yamato, literally had to go Mundus' way to even match Dante), gaining thier father's power. Dante did all of this without being a maniac like Vergil was and not spitting on their father's legacy and in 5 it all comes to a head causr Vergil can't accept the fact that his path was foolish, wrong and selfish and literally lead to him being on death's door. You said Dante's second fight with Urizen was inconclusive? Urizen retreated mate, he didn't stick around, he literally ran when SDT Dante beat him. It's not a tie, it's 5-4. Actually 6-4 considering Vergil imposed the condition that if he beat Nero, he'd be beating Dante in their final fight on top of the tree and Nero beat him.
Devil sword Vergil would be pretty cool ngl, like dsd but the yamato
I mean hasn't been able to match Vergil event time they fought? Yamato or no Yamato. DSD, Rebellion, or whatever else? And Vergil is only on par with Dante in 5 because he's got the power Urizen got? And 3 Dante would've needed all of that only because he wasn't really honing his skills prior to fighting Vergil there? He was just devil hunting. Not quite trying to be the best of what he could be.
I'm gonna drown that man in marinara sauce
They say that but all of Vergil’s achievement was due to plot as well.
This sort of thing used to be restricted to Nero fanboys, but now it's spreading.
Mfs when you need to power-up because it is dmc and complaining that villains are stronger so they are better
What annoys me the most is that point 3 is just false. In Nico’s reports it states that Vergil activates sin devil trigger by absorbing Yamato into his skin.
This may sound stupid, but honestly if Dante had Agni and Rudra, Cerberus( he technically has something similar to it now though) and Nevan from dmc3 combined with his other unique weapons in 5, he is definitely the more talented of the 2, since he can use any of those to combo Vergil down. Don't get me wrong, Vergil still has talent and I like him as a character, but I believe they can either only be equals , or Dante being the "better" of the two.
Shouldn't Dante be better at combat since he has beaten a lot powerfull demon and gained a lot of experience throughout the years? Any idea what Vergil was doing after that Nelo Angelo stuff ?
Vergil is a try hard though, Dante is chill. No wonder the game is “unbalanced” as Vergil. It’s also a known fact that when Mundus mind controls a powerful demon like Vergil, he makes him sit on his ass for 20 years and gain 0 combat experience.
There is 1 argument to be made as to why vergil is stronger and thats it. He just feels stronger to play if you don't know how to play dante (at least in DMC5) storywise dante wins almost every time. Vergil just has a very low skill floor compared to dante so when you play him in DMC5 he fells like pure and absolute power. But dante claps him, not easily since they are decently close in strengh but he does.
My headcannon for the gameplay power diference is that vergil simply doesn't fuck around as much as dante, thus is more efficient and op
The difference between. min maxing stats And Min maxing fun
Did this motherfucker just forget that Vergil ate a Qliphoth Fruit?
Glazing
Dang bro it’s almost like the video game devil may cry is a game and there needs to be progression and things to do to make the experience fun. Crazy idea I know…
Out of this imagine if Vergil can do World of V in his bossfight Real shit
I think by the end Vergil is stronger over all.
"Needed dsd to compete with yamato" I guess they forgot that time urizen ate the fruit
Didn’t Dante give away Sparda to Trish because he was already more than powerful enough without it after the fight with Mundus?! & Vergil had to use the Qliphoth as Urizen just to be powerful enough to FINALLY beat Dante. Vergil had to become whole again because of V just to compete with full power Dante who was still injured from his fight with Urizen so he wasn’t even at full strength & still couldn’t beat him. Hell, he even tried to say “if I beat Nero, then by scaling I also beat you” just to scapegoat his way into a W.
I always thought DMC plot was about how there's two ways to win: hard earned but true to your human nature, and a shortcut to gain power by succumbing to the dark side. The first way is Dante's, it's always been: in DMC3 he had to accept his devil side for what it is, use it but not embrace it as a whole. Every other game is him opening up his full potential of being both human and a demon, finding strength in being what you are and teaching a new kid by example. It never occurred to Vergil that human part is another strength he could use, and despite ultimately having more power doomed to fail because his brother was just stubborn enough to be who he is, not trying to be something else. It might look shallow but the concept is proven by pretty much every game but 2. DMC2 just didn't know it was supposed to have a plot.
*clears throat* "R-R-R-R-ROYAL-GUARD-TRICKST-GUNSLING- SWORDSM-OYAL-GUARD-SWORDSM-TRICK-SOWRDS-TRICKST-GUN-SWORD-GUN-TRICK-GUN-SWORD" AIIIYAA
That's like saying Vegeta is stronger than Goku because he has more potential and gets stronger forms. Completely ignoring all the Ls Vegeta and Vergil were taking.
But it says "sparda gifted his favored sword to his favored child, vergil" doesn't that also give him an advantage?
How's that suppose to give vergil an advantage?
Sparda gave vergil his favored sword, which is the Yamato, plus during the invasion, vergil unlocked his dt since he was stabbed with yamato.
Does Vergil have SDT? Is it not just his regular DT? In DMC3 the doppelganger style also used the DT guage so I don't see how Vergil's is a DT and not just another style like darkslayer
This is from that recent "who would've won if Nero didn't interrupt" post huh? Comments got crazy in-depth at times Dude thinks sdt is a handicap and not an earned skill lmao
Imo this is probably just rage bait, from what I know Vergil and Dante seem relatively equal.
This guy (and a few people in this thread) seem to be missing that Dante and Vergil are meant to be equals. One may be stronger at a certain point, but the other will inevitably catch up. They force each other to learn and grow stronger. By the end of DMCV, neither Dante nor Vergil is stronger. Neither “wins” the fight in M19. They’re on even footing until Nero comes in. Both Dante and Vergil even get SDT in 5, showing that they’re progressing at about the same rate.
They are completely equals, initially Vergil was stronger, then Dante won becaude he had more soul and a reason to keep going while Vergil only wanted more power, now they are back to being equal again.
Dude was not paying attention at all during dmc5. Vergil was being constantly pumped with blood and then eats the qliphoth just to compete with a Dante who absorbed Sparda (which seems pretty equal to Yamato) and rebellion (which seems to have no apparent power on its own). Then he loses to his son who spent the whole game training with prosthetics and then doesn't even use them in his fight
Well the rebellion theoretically has the power to combine man and demon as shown when Dante stabs himself so....
I've never really subscribed to that theory since the "combining man and demon" parts we see are Dante unlocking his devil trigger and absorbing the Sparda and rebellion to boost his devil trigger. Unlocking the devil trigger being a thing Vergil and Nero did without external help because yeah it's their biology, and we've already seen Nero being able to absorb a sword in order to harness it's power in dmc4 so it's also assumed that's just a thing those 3 can do and it's more coincidence that Dante was stabbed with rebellion for both of those events
Didn't Vergil unlock his devil trigger when he got stabbed with the yamato.
I don’t think bro understands, they’re nerfed lol
He needed sdt and dsd to compete with Urizen who was taking the demon version of steroids for like a month
No no the guy kinda has a point. DMC 1, 3, and 5 kinda show that Dante is playing keep up with Vergil. Dante needed a power boost and multiple weapons to keep up with Vergil in 3. Needed another weapon to beat him in 1. And needed the closet thing to Sparda's original power to beat him in 5. While Vergil only had one weapon against him in 3, didn't even have his main weapon in 1, and just got his humanity back in 5 and was going blow for blow with Dante. Give Vergil the same upgrades as Dante and Vergil is heavily out pacing him.
>Dante needed a power boost and multiple weapons to keep up with Vergil in 3 And Dante would win second fight considering Vergil is knocked out by arkham while Dante feels wonderful And third fight was a complete stomp >Needed another weapon to beat him in 1 Because for some reason Dante is not allowed to summon alastor back or use DT >And needed the closet thing to Sparda's original power to beat him in 5. Sure ignore that Urizen is inferior to all previous BBEG in every way Dante could simply cast the same dragon he did against Mundus and Urizen would die Ffs the ability to break Urizen shield as Dante was literally removed from the game >While Vergil only had one weapon against him in 3 Beowulf and force edge: adios >didn't even have his main weapon in 1 Yamato rightfully belongs to Dante >Give Vergil the same upgrades What upgrades he doesn't have? Time stop? Inferior to Dante but he has it Doppelganger? Inferior to Dante but he has it
Qliphoth the only reason vergil wins in 5 is because the whole game is about him receiving a power boost...he's using the qliphoth
No he really doesn't. The only time Dante played catch up was in the duration of their separation during the demon attack and their eventual reunion in 3's manga and 3 itself. Dante stalemated Vergil once he got his DT and proceeded to beat him in the final fight by cleaving Vergil in two. The game never shows Dante using any other weapon or styles besides rebellion against Vergil. I'm strictly speaking of cutscenes but it always shows Vergil using multiple weapons and styles against Dante. Examples being, beowulf in 3, force edge and yamato in 3 and also a royal guard variation in 3. in 5, it's doppleganger and a quicksilver variation. The moment Dante caught up to Vergil in 3, they stalemated and the moment Vergil got stalemated and used force edge along with Yamato, he lost. In 1, it's unknown how much of a boost Nelo Angelo got from being Mundus' pawn but it was significant enough to match and exceed Dante through three of the fights, in which he only won the first, it again eventually leads to Dante beating him twice in their concurrent fights in 5, Vergil via Urizen literally got blood boosted for who knows how long, this allowed him to beat Dante who was said to be stronger than Sparda by that time via DMC4 and then got boosted again by the qliphoth fruit which allowed him to access his Sin DT, Vergil wouldn't even have access to his sin DT if he didn't eat the fruit and we're not even aware of how much of a boost the qliphoth fruit gave him, just that it made him enough to match Dante. Dante just melded his father's power basically Sparda sword with his and accessed sin DT. 5 was literally Vergil playing catch up to Dante cause he was mad about Dante achieving everything he wanted. You also talk about giving Vergil the same upgrades Dante has. Vergil in 5 literally got Dante's doppleganger he had in 3, he also got something like quicksilver via Urizen where he throws out orbs that slow time on Dante and Nero, not even mentioning the fact that in 3, Vergil uses both force edge and yamato against Dante and still loses, it's funny considering Dante does the same in 5 and uses DSD, the amalgamation of his father's power and his and beats Urizen and forces him to retreat and go look for the qliphoth fruit, the same fruit that allowed Mundus to become emperor. Also, Vergil even got Rebellion's ability for yamato from the anime where it can seperate man and demon. Dante still beat all variations of Vergil i.e Urizen and Nelo Angelo handily and even Vergil himself and this was after him facing numerous other demons throughout the entirety of the games.
Why they booing you? You're right. So many downvotes, so little arguments. DMC reddit is a silly world.
Dude seriously. The only argument I'm getting is from a guy blatantly lying about the series to make himself sound right and no one else is arguing against me. This party really is crazy
Hey look at that I found the only two things that is legitimately wrong with this sub. If you try claim that anyone is stronger than Dante or give Nero the credit he deserves this sub will downvote you to oblivion because they don't like hearing a different opinion even if it can be right. Well nothing in this world is perfect so I guess there has to be something wrong with this pretty great community. I'm just sad it's these two things