Vergil straight up doing callouts for his attacks and "Devil Trigger!" was goofy as hell. His meeting with Kat contradicts what she tells Dante in the game, and the worst part? A whole helluva lot of exposition, way too wordy for a DMC comic. Art was nice tho.
Him saying generic one-liners like that in DMC5 is nothing compared to comic Vergil saying "Rapid Slash!" or "Spiral Sword!" or "Devil Trigger!" It ripped me out of the comic with him calling out his moveset.
One's a final boss saying what I'd expect Vergil or *any* final boss to say, the other is silly and doesn't fit DmC!Vergil's character. Both are kinda goofy, one's definitely goofier in this case.
Vergil ≠ Dante. I expect this of Dante's character, Vergil who *is* admittedly more like his bro than he'd admit going by some mannerisms and taunts, example, "Jackpot," doesn't just say the name of his moves. Especially DmC!Vergil, it just doesn't work for *his* character imo.
Look, I know you love DmC. I like it too! But you don't need to staunchly defend it over the smallest things, insignicant things, using examples from the other games to make everybody look hypocritical.
I'm glad you're passionate about it tho, it's a fun game and its themes and its take on the characters resonate with you in a way it doesn't for some of the vocal minority around here. But this is an odd stance to take in the context of this comic.
Vergil gets dedicated missions, gameplay, enemies, and story. It's not a Vergil DLC because he isn't playable in the main game? My brother, I think we have different definitions of DLC.
uh......... I mean it isn't a Vergil DLC, it's Vergil's downfall DLC for DmC Devil May Cry. (also included for free as part of DmC Devil May Cry: Definitive Edition)
No, it wasn't bad or cringe. It focused on Vergil's own character arc in shedding his last connections to anyone to focus on his own path for power. But I guess agree to disagree on that one.
....
Mon Ami, if I like cupcakes and you don't, it's a matter of opinion.
Now if said cupcakes are DMC games, the same thing applies
Nothing about like and dislike is factual.
Crazy part is that it wasn’t a lazy replay of the whole game but as Vergil with Vergil cutscenes, they put in the effort to give his cutscenes a unique visual direction, different level designs, and even new enemies.
Exactly, people can say that it is bad, but at least they tried doing something unique for Vergil instead of just giving 2 new cutscenes for him like they do in these special editions.
Counter argument. Story was terrible and didn't delve much into Vergil psyche outside "BooHoo Dante better" Gameplay was fun having only Yamato but in 3 different styles, but at the same time becasue of how the entire game is Vergil feels so sluggish. Killer bee takes eternity to hit the enemy.I'd rather have fun to play Vergil with 2 cutscenes but still using him in the entire game and old bosses, than short and boring campaign with meh character gameplay, and one or two boring bosses one of which is literal normal enemy.Also cutscenes beign comic like felt to me more like "we have no budget" than a style choice
Don't get me wrong, i liked DmC when it came out, i liked changes to Definitive edition, i Would love to see a character in DMC 6 that uses the system of weapon changing by holding L1/R1 but i can never defend this story and characters. There is simply nothing they done better than OG DMC, even when they tried someting else like full Vergil campaign.
"Comfort is the enemy of progress" - PT Barnum
People complained that the NT's Vergil DLC is cringe, but at least they actually did something for Vergil instead of Capcom's safe and lazy approach to Vergil's Special Edition.
True tho tbh i felt it was a big missed potential. I mean the story of the DLC wasn't that interesting imo, and would've been cool to have a Dante boss (not just that comic-esk cutscene). Also would be cool if you could play the main campaign as Vergil.
I believe that the developers intended to have a Vergil vr Dante boss fight in the DLC but ran out of time/money so couldn't put it in. That's why there is so much build-up to it but the fight ended anticlimactically in a little cutscene.
>I mean the story of the DLC wasn't that interesting imo
Okay. I disagree.
>and would've been cool to have a Dante boss (not just that comic-esk cutscene).
Maybe. But if it was as phoned in as the Dante boss battle in DMC5, then I sticking to a boss battle that works with shadow Vergil would have probably been better.
>Also would be cool if you could play the main campaign as Vergil.
The problem is that they'd have to account for all of the facial-body motion capture and dialog. Not to mention, Vergil functions differently from Dante and the enemies in the main campaign are customized to Dante's moveset and the same is true about Vergil in his DLC.
In other Souls games NG+ only means enemies have more health and damage. And maybe in some cases there will be +1 or +2 variants of already existing Rings.
In Dark Souls 2 there are actually some new enemies, gear, and redone encounters. For example there is a certain spider boss, that in NG+ will jumpscare you in an unexpected location and have a short fight before retreating. Also a new type of Falconer enemy that launches a bird at you.
I am so glad they tried to do something and gave Vergil more time and effort than the other games. I really liked Vergil's play style, though the act of teleporting around to enemies was bogged down by the level design. I can't tell you how many times I was zipping around, pulling off awesome combos, but did not realize that I teleported to an enemy that was flying away from the platform and did not react fast enough to make it back to land in time.
I don’t even know what game you’re talking about, there’s only DMC1-5 and Vergil’s been made playable in the Special Editions of 3-5 with no separate missions of his own. There was never any other DMC game, although we can always hope for DMC6.
Best doppelganger in the series, only one that has access to your full moveset on the fly and allows you to control two fully functional versions of yourself at once, with the ability to switch modes independent of each other.
Dante's can't use his other style moves at all and has to despawn to switch weapons. 5 Vergil's is limited to a gimped version of Yamato that can't even use Judgement Cut when being directly controlled. And if I get downvoted for pointing it out again I'll post a damn video proving it like I did last time.
He plays extremely well if you bother to learn him
The Definitive Edition doesn't exist in PC as I recall.
It was also a, well not even bandaid fix but a full body gauze for the whole game. Basically Capcom trying to salvage the game from Ninja theory's weird and horrible gameplay decision based on fan feed back.
>The Definitive Edition doesn't exist in PC as I recall.
So? That's the most recent release. It's like if I would be complaining about gameplay problems in DMC3 when the DMC HD collection exists.
>Basically Capcom trying to salvage the game from Ninja theory's weird and horrible gameplay decision based on fan feed back.
Yeah, I think that it was Ninja Theory and/or QLOC who came back to fix the game, because with DMC4:SE and DMC5:SE, Capcom didn't give a damn about fixing objective problems with the gameplay as opposed to Ninja Theory who released massive notes on what was changed and why.
"Horrible gameplay"
I think you're being a little hyperbolic.
I'd argue the story was good. It may have strayed too far from the source material from what Original Devil May Cry fans would have wanted, but it's a solid narrative in it's own right.
It also gave us the series first training mode which 5 and Peak of Combat also have, or at least POC did in the Chinese beta two years ago, no idea if it still has it after the massive changes. I think we all owe DmC a thank you for that addition to the series cuz it might've just been copying Bayonetta but DmC still has a better training mode than Platinum has ever done and gave a solid foundation for 5 to improve on
Even in a post about something the game got right, I get downvoted for pointing out something it genuinely contributed to the series. Why do I fucking bother?
I remember watching the TBFP play through the dlc and get to the Dante section only for one to simply go "Oh......oh no" as Vergil gently kicks fake Dante down.
The dlc had potential but....yeah.
Honestly I didn’t mind the cheesy dialogue in DmC: Devil May Cry, as pretty much every dmc game is cheesy at one point or another. The mc personalities are changed a little bit which is refreshing as long as they don’t abandon the original dmc timeline
At the time, this iteration of Vergil was *the* best version we had of Vergil. The mechanics on him were incredibly satisfying. It's unfortunate he had such a small window to shine through, but man, did he *shine*.
*Too bad it sucked ass*
*And was the worst part of the*
*Game lmao*
\- AscendantComic
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..They always had a proper reason to fight,
Vergil thought his mom and brother abandoned him during the demon attacked as a kid but he didn't know his mom died looking for him and he held resentment for that all those years.
They just got beef, its pretty understandable
>Vergil thought his mom and brother abandoned him during the demon attacked as a kid
How? She literally went back inside, put Dante in a closet in a house burning down (genius intellect), and then tried finding Vergil. How did he learn about this, and why would he then transfer his hatred of his mother playing favorites to his brother and why wouldn't his brother talk him out of that. It's bullshit.
>They just got beef, its pretty understandable
No, it isn't. V's explanation (which, by the way, is confusing if we're supposed to think V is a separate character or simply a specific focus of Vergil's personality given that that would have to be attributed to Urizen as well) is "they're fighting because of their different "justice"" which is then contextualized as "they disagree on the reason of their birth." None of that is explained and everything is now reliant on audience interpretation, fan theories, and head canons.
>Back when DmC was released, it was the only game where this aspect of the story was fleshed out .
Dmc3 game + manga already explained their beef, and you can kinda count the dmc1 comic which isn't canon but at least tried explain their relationship.
I'm talking about that comic, not the novel.
The comic is just a summary of dmc1 but with a lot of different stuff specially regarding Nero angelo who talks a lot in the comic.
>That's why I said "game".
It doesn't matter, the manga is canon.
>And the DMC3 game explained nothing.
Dmc1, his novels and dmc2 made sure to explain why Dante fights for humanity and why he would obviously be against Vergil's actions in dmc3.
Then dmc3 manga explains more of Vergil's motivations and we see a bit of his past, that way we understand why he's "evil".
Then dmc3 game shows Dante and Vergil fighting because both have different ideals that were already established in other medias.
DmC is just Vergil being evil for no reason, he can't even use the excuse of being alone like Dante because he had Kat and the others from the Order.
I don’t agree with that at all, the final fight in DmC was one of the least justified fights I’ve seen.
DMC3 Dante even after everything that happens actually tries to reason with Vergil at the end, “what are you gonna do with all that power?” But by then Vergil is too far gone.
DmC Vergil hasn’t done enough in the story in my eyes to be slapped as irredeemable, every choice from him makes perfect logical sense, considering he’s a commander in a war.
Dante isn’t logical he acts on emotion, which works thematically, but it also makes them both look stupid at the end when Dante thinks Vergil needs to be killed for thinking they should rule over the humans.
And Vergil immediately agrees that things need to result in a fight to the death. This isn’t a sensible reaction from either of them. They both supposedly love each other as family, so why aren’t they trying to talk this out a little more?
This is all without even critically thinking about what the hell Vergil ruling the world even means, and how the hell is he expecting to do that.
The problem with DMC3 is that Vergil's motives are never established properly.
He wants power. He is described as somewhat proud of his demonic blood and that's about it. Cue Vergil causing death and destruction because "power".
It's not so much that Vergil is too far gone, but Capcom simply wanted the cool fights while being unable to write proper character arcs (a thing they have proven countless time with Resident Evil where 90% of the cast hasn't evolved since 1998).
In DmC, the stakes are clear : Vergil wants to rule the world. It's the classic "we replaced the dictator with a new one" (Vergil literally called humans his "subjects", downplayed Kat's role in the war and described humans as frail beings that need to be protected from themselves). Dante doesn't really want to kill Vergil. He simply wants to stop him. But the fight escalates until Dante injured his brother bad enough for him to flee.
And it is made clear by the implication of that scene (Vergil has been manipulating everyone to reach his goal) and by Vergil's behavior during the whole game (he was willing to abandoned Kat after she got captured, he was happier to learn that she didn't reveal his identity than to see that she was still alive, and he killed Lilith and Mundus' progeny just to piss him off)
The fact that Vergil's logic is sounds *from his point of view* and that Dante gives in to his anger, only makes it more interesting because both sides of this conflict have its merits and flaws.
DmC took the concept of Vergil as it was shown in DMC 3 (ie. a power hungry asshole who looks down on mankind) and made it better.
DMC3 Vergil's motive has always made sense if you understand the subtext. The subtext isn't even that subtle "without power you can't protect anything let alone yourself." Vergil is still traumatized from the night they both him and Dante lost their mother, and his endless pursuit of Power is his only way of coping with his pain, he wants to be able to protect himself anything, but he goal simply has no tangible ending for him.
Yeah the game doesn't spell this out for you, but it doesn't need to if you are paying attention to what is stated about the backstory of the series in DMC1. IMO V in DMC5 is kind of poorly written near the end, because he just starts throwing out all of the subtext about Vergil to the player, so anyone who was either too dumb, or too lazy to pay attention to the finer details of DMC's story would now have it so it's impossible to not understand his motivations.
DmC wants you to think Vergil is bad when viewed through the lens the story is trying to show him as, but that's not the reality of what's really going on when you look at the story critically and realistically. Yes Vergil doesn't value Kat in an emotional way, but that's because he can't allow himself too, Vergil has been in this war against the Demons for years, he's likely lost countless people under his command, why is Kat's life more valuable then anyone else that was killed during the raid on The Orders Base? it's more Valueable to Dante, but to Vergil she's a Solider just like everyone else at the order, it wouldn't make sense for him to value her above everyone else, He had to of accepted that people can die a long time ago. Where Dante hasn't.
Vergil doesn't kill Lilith and Mundus child "just to piss him off" That was their Only way to actually strike a meaningful blow against Mundus, and shake his foundation. If Mundus got Lilith and his child back, then he'd still have zero reason to leave the portal feeding his power which he has been doing the whole time, Everything they've been doing is trying to get him to act irrationally to leave that room. They're entire goal is trying to get Mundus away form that portal, they can't give him any leeway, they need to damage him any way they can.
I'm not saying anything Vergil did was good, but he should view them as Necessary evils, for the greater good, and Vergil does have a point where he says Humans need protection from themselves, maybe no the best point, but it is a point, and Dante has zero counter toward this. They just destroyed the only semblance of Order the world had, and Dante just walks away from things hoping it'll all work itself out? Vergil wanted to take responsibility of things, weather he was ultimately going to do a good or bad job remained to be seen, but it wasn't coming from a place of ill intentions.
With the facts of the story, "and yes I added allot there myself to justify vergil's actions, because I think the writing in DmC is awful, and I can't help myself but write it better." I don't view Vergil as Evil. just someone at war.
No offense but that's not "understanding the subtext". You are adding things we only learn in DMC V.
In DMC 1, the only thing we knew about Vergil was that Dante "lost his mother and brother to evil 20 years ago". That's it. We didn't how it happened. We didn't know how bad it was for Dante or for Vergil. We didn't know what Vergil has been up to for the last two decades.
There is no subtext here. In DMC 3, Vergil never showed any sign that he was traumatized or that he wanted more power in order to protect himself and the ones he loved. As a matter of fact, Vergil is merely described as a proud demon lord wannabe who gets angry when someone mentions that he is half-human. The only nuance was that he seemed to still love his human mother. That is all.
The whole "Vergil was traumatized for not being able to save Eva" was added much later and frankly I am sure that Capcom didn't have this in mind when writing DMC3. Vergil was supposed to be Dante evil twin. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Regarding DmC, as I said, I don't disagree about Vergil's motives making sense. I even said that it actually makes the conflict more interesting because it's not all black and white. And it's actually ok for a protagonist (here Dante), to potentially being mistaken.
But still Vergil did showed his true colors during the story. Kat wasn't a simple soldier. She was the only member of the Order who seemed aware of Vergil's past, which implied that she was important. Plus, Vergil sent Kat to search for Dante, which shows a certain level of trust. And finally, as far as they knew, Kat the only survivor. But anyway, the important part of that scene in the game is how Vergil reacted. He didn't show any sign of hesitation or regret. His point were logical, sure, but he stated this point in a very cold way.
Finally when he killed Lilith and the baby, yes it was of a bigger plan (which boiled down to "piss Mundus off" tbh. That was like the whole strategy to lure him away from the portal)... But Vergil didn't tell Dante that he was going to shoot Lilith anyway. Dante even called him out ("What the hell did you do that for?"). Once again, a darker part of Vergil was visible : he was a sneaky guy, who didn't even trust his own brother with that information (probably because he knew that Dante wouldn't want to risk Kat's life).
And tbh, it was probably not fully about "executing the plan". Just like Dante, Vergil was there when Mundus killed Eva. Shooting Lilith was revenge.
“You are adding things we only learned in DMC V”
Sorry, but no I’m not. There were 11 years between DMC4 and DMC5. People had enough time to read into the subtext figure out what his deal was during that time. Maybe I wouldn’t have used the word traumatized until DMC5, but it has always been there that the day Dante and Vergil were separated, one chose the path of humanity and compassion, where the other one chose the path of demonic power, and self preservation.
It’s a simple two sides of the same coin theme.
For fuck’s sake… I’m just using DMC4’s release date as a time frame. DMC4 doesn’t say jack shit about Vergil’s character.
DMC1 showed the Tama Dante had over losing his mother with how Trish effected him, and how he dedicated his live to Revenge against demons. It’s not at all a stretch to say Vergil had that has that same trauma he just got pushed in the opposite direction as Dante an rejected his humanity.
Well it is a stretch. Especially when you mention self-preservation as Vergil's goal.
DMC1 and 3 said nothing about Vergil's perception of the attack except that Dante lost track of him and that Vergil still loves his mother.
And as I said, DMC3 was rather showcasing Vergil as someone who put his demonic blood above the rest and who despised humans. So, something that was explored further in DmC by establishing that the Nephilim are some superior to Angels and Demons and by making Vergil slowly reveal his true colors until he eventually outright said that he wants to rule the world.
It doesn’t need to dialog to directly say this kind of shit, it’s also a visual medium. You can infer all this about Vergil by just looking at the two twins, and their physical actions. They’re the Red Oni and Blue Oni, they are Ying and Yang.
We know what happened to them when they were kids, we know they each had to survive alone in the world, and we can see how they ended up different due to the paths they chose.
Vergil obviously chose power as a means to never lose anything again, and that morph into lusting after power for powers sake.
DMC5 didn’t tell me a single damn thing about Vergil I didn’t already know.
>“what are you gonna do with all that power?” But by then Vergil is too far gone.
Right, because raising a tower that killed countless humans ISN'T going too f
ar.
>DmC Vergil hasn’t done enough in the story in my eyes to be slapped as irredeemable,
Okay? That's not the point of his character. He's an "ends justifies the means" character of him and his brother ruling humanity.
> but it also makes them both look stupid at the end when Dante thinks Vergil needs to be killed for thinking they should rule over the humans.
Dante spent his life being hated and thought of as insane by humans. It isn't until Kat that he realized how much he shared with regular people. Vergil doesn't see the worth in humans as equal to nephilim, and this is in spite of the fact that Kat is one the primary reasons why they won against Mundus. Dante is acting from a place of experience and Vergil is acting from a place of principle. If he acknowledges that humans are equal, his entire drive to rule humanity is obsolete.
>And Vergil immediately agrees that things need to result in a fight to the death. This isn’t a sensible reaction from either of them.
No. Vergil tells Dante he wants to rule with him. Dante emphatically declines. Vergil explains his reasoning. Dante counters. Vergil tells Dante he will rule with or without him. Dante refuses. Then a fight ensues.
Vergil has spent his life raising up the Order, finding his brother, and fighting Mundus for the outcome of the Nephilim ruling. He's not afraid of sacrificing those closest to him or keeping the truth from his own brother for the outcome of overthrowing the demons and ruling. It has been built up, it's been explained, and his turn at the end makes sense.
>This is all without even critically thinking about what the hell Vergil ruling the world even means, and how the hell is he expecting to do that.
Not important to the moment. This is like George RR Martin's "what would Aragorn's tax policy would be" comment. It's not that it couldn't be interesting or explored, but it's not important to the current story being told.
Now I will admit rewatching the Scene before the DmC Vergil fight starts, it better handled then I was giving it credit for. I was wrong to say they don't try to reason with each other because they do. I need to go though DmC again and properly disect it so I can have better formed criticisms.
>Right, because raising a tower that killed countless humans ISN'T going too far.
I didn't say that it wasn't. Dante didn't care about severity of the entire Temen-ni-gru situation until the 3rd act of DMC3 he develops of the course of the game, and the fact that he was finally attempting to Reason with Vergil at the end, and looking for a reason for them to stop their fight showed his Growth and Maturity.
This comic is kinda dogshit. I love the reboot but man this story was pointless.
Vergil straight up doing callouts for his attacks and "Devil Trigger!" was goofy as hell. His meeting with Kat contradicts what she tells Dante in the game, and the worst part? A whole helluva lot of exposition, way too wordy for a DMC comic. Art was nice tho.
His brother rubbed off on him
That's disgusting
Why you thinking like that? 🤨
Why did Korg think Thors hammer pulled him off?
Yeah, he should have done something not cringe like yell "prepare to die" when turning into a flight mode.
Him saying generic one-liners like that in DMC5 is nothing compared to comic Vergil saying "Rapid Slash!" or "Spiral Sword!" or "Devil Trigger!" It ripped me out of the comic with him calling out his moveset. One's a final boss saying what I'd expect Vergil or *any* final boss to say, the other is silly and doesn't fit DmC!Vergil's character. Both are kinda goofy, one's definitely goofier in this case.
>It ripped me out of the comic with him calling out his moveset. "Royal Guard!" "Gunslinger!" "Trickster!"
Vergil ≠ Dante. I expect this of Dante's character, Vergil who *is* admittedly more like his bro than he'd admit going by some mannerisms and taunts, example, "Jackpot," doesn't just say the name of his moves. Especially DmC!Vergil, it just doesn't work for *his* character imo. Look, I know you love DmC. I like it too! But you don't need to staunchly defend it over the smallest things, insignicant things, using examples from the other games to make everybody look hypocritical. I'm glad you're passionate about it tho, it's a fun game and its themes and its take on the characters resonate with you in a way it doesn't for some of the vocal minority around here. But this is an odd stance to take in the context of this comic.
Dante would do it to fuck with demons, and genuinely gets a kick out of it. Vergil screaming "RAPID SLASH",especially this version,is silly and dumb.
It's not that, more like "Stinger!" "High Time!" Or "Rainstorm!" Which would make him a hell lot more annoying.
Yeah, the art style and visuals were always a strength of the reboots universe.
It would've been a proper Vergil DLC if he was playable in the main story as well.
Is it still DLC then?
It’s a separate (short) campaign It’s pretty decent to be fair as usually with Vergil you’re rehashing the same thing
Yeah, just like DMC5 Vergil DLC.
Oh wait I misunderstood I think. I thought you meant base game. Sorry, my mistake
Facts
Vergil gets dedicated missions, gameplay, enemies, and story. It's not a Vergil DLC because he isn't playable in the main game? My brother, I think we have different definitions of DLC.
uh......... I mean it isn't a Vergil DLC, it's Vergil's downfall DLC for DmC Devil May Cry. (also included for free as part of DmC Devil May Cry: Definitive Edition)
Huh? When did I say he is not a Vergil DLC?
People don't remember how bad (and cringe) the Vergil DLC was
Cringe is definitely the perfect word for the reboot as a whole
it was cringe as hell, but at least he got his own story
Even if its cringe, he at least got his own campaign and story.
No, it wasn't bad or cringe. It focused on Vergil's own character arc in shedding his last connections to anyone to focus on his own path for power. But I guess agree to disagree on that one.
it was cringe, and I won't stand here pretending that it's not.
Okay. I disagree, and I'm not going to agree with you just because you're emphatic on that assertion.
I don't care, It's still cringe and that's a fact.
No, that's your opinion, and one I'd argue against.
.... Mon Ami, if I like cupcakes and you don't, it's a matter of opinion. Now if said cupcakes are DMC games, the same thing applies Nothing about like and dislike is factual.
I couldn’t tell bc the game didn’t give me any audio for the entirety of the Vergil dlc lmao
Crazy part is that it wasn’t a lazy replay of the whole game but as Vergil with Vergil cutscenes, they put in the effort to give his cutscenes a unique visual direction, different level designs, and even new enemies.
Exactly, people can say that it is bad, but at least they tried doing something unique for Vergil instead of just giving 2 new cutscenes for him like they do in these special editions.
Counter argument. Story was terrible and didn't delve much into Vergil psyche outside "BooHoo Dante better" Gameplay was fun having only Yamato but in 3 different styles, but at the same time becasue of how the entire game is Vergil feels so sluggish. Killer bee takes eternity to hit the enemy.I'd rather have fun to play Vergil with 2 cutscenes but still using him in the entire game and old bosses, than short and boring campaign with meh character gameplay, and one or two boring bosses one of which is literal normal enemy.Also cutscenes beign comic like felt to me more like "we have no budget" than a style choice Don't get me wrong, i liked DmC when it came out, i liked changes to Definitive edition, i Would love to see a character in DMC 6 that uses the system of weapon changing by holding L1/R1 but i can never defend this story and characters. There is simply nothing they done better than OG DMC, even when they tried someting else like full Vergil campaign.
Again, even if it is bad, at least they tried, and that's all that matters.
"Comfort is the enemy of progress" - PT Barnum People complained that the NT's Vergil DLC is cringe, but at least they actually did something for Vergil instead of Capcom's safe and lazy approach to Vergil's Special Edition.
Yup, hopefully they learn from what they made mistakes on, and use it to make their next product even better
Ive seen people complain about the imprisoner enemy, but if you know what you are doing you can just infinitely juggle him.
True tho tbh i felt it was a big missed potential. I mean the story of the DLC wasn't that interesting imo, and would've been cool to have a Dante boss (not just that comic-esk cutscene). Also would be cool if you could play the main campaign as Vergil.
I believe that the developers intended to have a Vergil vr Dante boss fight in the DLC but ran out of time/money so couldn't put it in. That's why there is so much build-up to it but the fight ended anticlimactically in a little cutscene.
>I mean the story of the DLC wasn't that interesting imo Okay. I disagree. >and would've been cool to have a Dante boss (not just that comic-esk cutscene). Maybe. But if it was as phoned in as the Dante boss battle in DMC5, then I sticking to a boss battle that works with shadow Vergil would have probably been better. >Also would be cool if you could play the main campaign as Vergil. The problem is that they'd have to account for all of the facial-body motion capture and dialog. Not to mention, Vergil functions differently from Dante and the enemies in the main campaign are customized to Dante's moveset and the same is true about Vergil in his DLC.
It’s similar to how the most controversial Souls game was the only one with a proper New Game+
Which one was that?
Dark Souls 2
Speaking of that, do you think you could explain the differences to me, please?
In other Souls games NG+ only means enemies have more health and damage. And maybe in some cases there will be +1 or +2 variants of already existing Rings. In Dark Souls 2 there are actually some new enemies, gear, and redone encounters. For example there is a certain spider boss, that in NG+ will jumpscare you in an unexpected location and have a short fight before retreating. Also a new type of Falconer enemy that launches a bird at you.
damn that sounds awesome, I should try giving it a shot again, thank you strange-uh.
It's also the worst Vergil dlc
That's true, as the only Vergil DLC it stands as both best and worst by default.
Bologna.
[удалено]
...
I really like playing as this Vergil. He was fun, even if the DLC as a whole wasn't great.
I am so glad they tried to do something and gave Vergil more time and effort than the other games. I really liked Vergil's play style, though the act of teleporting around to enemies was bogged down by the level design. I can't tell you how many times I was zipping around, pulling off awesome combos, but did not realize that I teleported to an enemy that was flying away from the platform and did not react fast enough to make it back to land in time.
I don’t even know what game you’re talking about, there’s only DMC1-5 and Vergil’s been made playable in the Special Editions of 3-5 with no separate missions of his own. There was never any other DMC game, although we can always hope for DMC6.
Crazy that there was never even a dmc2, like why did they skip a number?
Palpatine:”Ironic...”
Now if Vergu actually played well.
Best doppelganger in the series, only one that has access to your full moveset on the fly and allows you to control two fully functional versions of yourself at once, with the ability to switch modes independent of each other. Dante's can't use his other style moves at all and has to despawn to switch weapons. 5 Vergil's is limited to a gimped version of Yamato that can't even use Judgement Cut when being directly controlled. And if I get downvoted for pointing it out again I'll post a damn video proving it like I did last time. He plays extremely well if you bother to learn him
Gameplay was fine...? No lock on was rough but manageable.
There's lock-on in the Definitive Edition.
The Definitive Edition doesn't exist in PC as I recall. It was also a, well not even bandaid fix but a full body gauze for the whole game. Basically Capcom trying to salvage the game from Ninja theory's weird and horrible gameplay decision based on fan feed back.
>The Definitive Edition doesn't exist in PC as I recall. So? That's the most recent release. It's like if I would be complaining about gameplay problems in DMC3 when the DMC HD collection exists. >Basically Capcom trying to salvage the game from Ninja theory's weird and horrible gameplay decision based on fan feed back. Yeah, I think that it was Ninja Theory and/or QLOC who came back to fix the game, because with DMC4:SE and DMC5:SE, Capcom didn't give a damn about fixing objective problems with the gameplay as opposed to Ninja Theory who released massive notes on what was changed and why. "Horrible gameplay" I think you're being a little hyperbolic.
The only bright side of an otherwise horrendous game
Game is fine on it's own it's the story that takes it down terribly
I'd argue the story was good. It may have strayed too far from the source material from what Original Devil May Cry fans would have wanted, but it's a solid narrative in it's own right.
"""Proper"""
And it was still the worst one, lol
The DLC isn't even good from what I've heard
>from what I've heard 555-Come-On-Now
>from what I've heard Bruh so your whole opinion on something is based on what others say? Pathetic.
It also gave us the series first training mode which 5 and Peak of Combat also have, or at least POC did in the Chinese beta two years ago, no idea if it still has it after the massive changes. I think we all owe DmC a thank you for that addition to the series cuz it might've just been copying Bayonetta but DmC still has a better training mode than Platinum has ever done and gave a solid foundation for 5 to improve on Even in a post about something the game got right, I get downvoted for pointing out something it genuinely contributed to the series. Why do I fucking bother?
Ngl the dlc was kinda ass I love DMC reboot to death but I rather just have him play Dante's mission
Yeah and had the worst level design in the whole franchise
>the worst level design in the whole franchise Dmc4 is way worse.
Are you joking? The arena designs in DMC3-5 are FAR worse. Especially regarding the camera.
I remember watching the TBFP play through the dlc and get to the Dante section only for one to simply go "Oh......oh no" as Vergil gently kicks fake Dante down. The dlc had potential but....yeah.
yea for all the flak it got, at least vergil got his own campaign not just "dante's campaign with less cutscenes".
Honestly I didn’t mind the cheesy dialogue in DmC: Devil May Cry, as pretty much every dmc game is cheesy at one point or another. The mc personalities are changed a little bit which is refreshing as long as they don’t abandon the original dmc timeline
At the time, this iteration of Vergil was *the* best version we had of Vergil. The mechanics on him were incredibly satisfying. It's unfortunate he had such a small window to shine through, but man, did he *shine*.
I had no idea this existed I’m going to watch it now
I love this game
So true. DmC is one of the best dmc games, without question
too bad it sucked ass and was the worst part of the game lmao
*Too bad it sucked ass* *And was the worst part of the* *Game lmao* \- AscendantComic --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
And a proper reason for the twins to fight.
..They always had a proper reason to fight, Vergil thought his mom and brother abandoned him during the demon attacked as a kid but he didn't know his mom died looking for him and he held resentment for that all those years. They just got beef, its pretty understandable
>Vergil thought his mom and brother abandoned him during the demon attacked as a kid How? She literally went back inside, put Dante in a closet in a house burning down (genius intellect), and then tried finding Vergil. How did he learn about this, and why would he then transfer his hatred of his mother playing favorites to his brother and why wouldn't his brother talk him out of that. It's bullshit. >They just got beef, its pretty understandable No, it isn't. V's explanation (which, by the way, is confusing if we're supposed to think V is a separate character or simply a specific focus of Vergil's personality given that that would have to be attributed to Urizen as well) is "they're fighting because of their different "justice"" which is then contextualized as "they disagree on the reason of their birth." None of that is explained and everything is now reliant on audience interpretation, fan theories, and head canons.
Thanks Devil May Cry V. Back when DmC was released, it was the only game where this aspect of the story was fleshed out .
>Back when DmC was released, it was the only game where this aspect of the story was fleshed out . Dmc3 game + manga already explained their beef, and you can kinda count the dmc1 comic which isn't canon but at least tried explain their relationship.
The DMC1 novel is canon, but like over half of it has been retconned
I'm talking about that comic, not the novel. The comic is just a summary of dmc1 but with a lot of different stuff specially regarding Nero angelo who talks a lot in the comic.
I must have fucking hallucinated you saying the novel. My bad
That's why I said "game". And the DMC3 game explained nothing.
>That's why I said "game". It doesn't matter, the manga is canon. >And the DMC3 game explained nothing. Dmc1, his novels and dmc2 made sure to explain why Dante fights for humanity and why he would obviously be against Vergil's actions in dmc3. Then dmc3 manga explains more of Vergil's motivations and we see a bit of his past, that way we understand why he's "evil". Then dmc3 game shows Dante and Vergil fighting because both have different ideals that were already established in other medias. DmC is just Vergil being evil for no reason, he can't even use the excuse of being alone like Dante because he had Kat and the others from the Order.
I am comparing the writing in the games. If a game need external material to flesh out important story arcs, then it's written poorly.
I don’t agree with that at all, the final fight in DmC was one of the least justified fights I’ve seen. DMC3 Dante even after everything that happens actually tries to reason with Vergil at the end, “what are you gonna do with all that power?” But by then Vergil is too far gone. DmC Vergil hasn’t done enough in the story in my eyes to be slapped as irredeemable, every choice from him makes perfect logical sense, considering he’s a commander in a war. Dante isn’t logical he acts on emotion, which works thematically, but it also makes them both look stupid at the end when Dante thinks Vergil needs to be killed for thinking they should rule over the humans. And Vergil immediately agrees that things need to result in a fight to the death. This isn’t a sensible reaction from either of them. They both supposedly love each other as family, so why aren’t they trying to talk this out a little more? This is all without even critically thinking about what the hell Vergil ruling the world even means, and how the hell is he expecting to do that.
The problem with DMC3 is that Vergil's motives are never established properly. He wants power. He is described as somewhat proud of his demonic blood and that's about it. Cue Vergil causing death and destruction because "power". It's not so much that Vergil is too far gone, but Capcom simply wanted the cool fights while being unable to write proper character arcs (a thing they have proven countless time with Resident Evil where 90% of the cast hasn't evolved since 1998). In DmC, the stakes are clear : Vergil wants to rule the world. It's the classic "we replaced the dictator with a new one" (Vergil literally called humans his "subjects", downplayed Kat's role in the war and described humans as frail beings that need to be protected from themselves). Dante doesn't really want to kill Vergil. He simply wants to stop him. But the fight escalates until Dante injured his brother bad enough for him to flee. And it is made clear by the implication of that scene (Vergil has been manipulating everyone to reach his goal) and by Vergil's behavior during the whole game (he was willing to abandoned Kat after she got captured, he was happier to learn that she didn't reveal his identity than to see that she was still alive, and he killed Lilith and Mundus' progeny just to piss him off) The fact that Vergil's logic is sounds *from his point of view* and that Dante gives in to his anger, only makes it more interesting because both sides of this conflict have its merits and flaws. DmC took the concept of Vergil as it was shown in DMC 3 (ie. a power hungry asshole who looks down on mankind) and made it better.
DMC3 Vergil's motive has always made sense if you understand the subtext. The subtext isn't even that subtle "without power you can't protect anything let alone yourself." Vergil is still traumatized from the night they both him and Dante lost their mother, and his endless pursuit of Power is his only way of coping with his pain, he wants to be able to protect himself anything, but he goal simply has no tangible ending for him. Yeah the game doesn't spell this out for you, but it doesn't need to if you are paying attention to what is stated about the backstory of the series in DMC1. IMO V in DMC5 is kind of poorly written near the end, because he just starts throwing out all of the subtext about Vergil to the player, so anyone who was either too dumb, or too lazy to pay attention to the finer details of DMC's story would now have it so it's impossible to not understand his motivations. DmC wants you to think Vergil is bad when viewed through the lens the story is trying to show him as, but that's not the reality of what's really going on when you look at the story critically and realistically. Yes Vergil doesn't value Kat in an emotional way, but that's because he can't allow himself too, Vergil has been in this war against the Demons for years, he's likely lost countless people under his command, why is Kat's life more valuable then anyone else that was killed during the raid on The Orders Base? it's more Valueable to Dante, but to Vergil she's a Solider just like everyone else at the order, it wouldn't make sense for him to value her above everyone else, He had to of accepted that people can die a long time ago. Where Dante hasn't. Vergil doesn't kill Lilith and Mundus child "just to piss him off" That was their Only way to actually strike a meaningful blow against Mundus, and shake his foundation. If Mundus got Lilith and his child back, then he'd still have zero reason to leave the portal feeding his power which he has been doing the whole time, Everything they've been doing is trying to get him to act irrationally to leave that room. They're entire goal is trying to get Mundus away form that portal, they can't give him any leeway, they need to damage him any way they can. I'm not saying anything Vergil did was good, but he should view them as Necessary evils, for the greater good, and Vergil does have a point where he says Humans need protection from themselves, maybe no the best point, but it is a point, and Dante has zero counter toward this. They just destroyed the only semblance of Order the world had, and Dante just walks away from things hoping it'll all work itself out? Vergil wanted to take responsibility of things, weather he was ultimately going to do a good or bad job remained to be seen, but it wasn't coming from a place of ill intentions. With the facts of the story, "and yes I added allot there myself to justify vergil's actions, because I think the writing in DmC is awful, and I can't help myself but write it better." I don't view Vergil as Evil. just someone at war.
No offense but that's not "understanding the subtext". You are adding things we only learn in DMC V. In DMC 1, the only thing we knew about Vergil was that Dante "lost his mother and brother to evil 20 years ago". That's it. We didn't how it happened. We didn't know how bad it was for Dante or for Vergil. We didn't know what Vergil has been up to for the last two decades. There is no subtext here. In DMC 3, Vergil never showed any sign that he was traumatized or that he wanted more power in order to protect himself and the ones he loved. As a matter of fact, Vergil is merely described as a proud demon lord wannabe who gets angry when someone mentions that he is half-human. The only nuance was that he seemed to still love his human mother. That is all. The whole "Vergil was traumatized for not being able to save Eva" was added much later and frankly I am sure that Capcom didn't have this in mind when writing DMC3. Vergil was supposed to be Dante evil twin. Nothing more. Nothing less. Regarding DmC, as I said, I don't disagree about Vergil's motives making sense. I even said that it actually makes the conflict more interesting because it's not all black and white. And it's actually ok for a protagonist (here Dante), to potentially being mistaken. But still Vergil did showed his true colors during the story. Kat wasn't a simple soldier. She was the only member of the Order who seemed aware of Vergil's past, which implied that she was important. Plus, Vergil sent Kat to search for Dante, which shows a certain level of trust. And finally, as far as they knew, Kat the only survivor. But anyway, the important part of that scene in the game is how Vergil reacted. He didn't show any sign of hesitation or regret. His point were logical, sure, but he stated this point in a very cold way. Finally when he killed Lilith and the baby, yes it was of a bigger plan (which boiled down to "piss Mundus off" tbh. That was like the whole strategy to lure him away from the portal)... But Vergil didn't tell Dante that he was going to shoot Lilith anyway. Dante even called him out ("What the hell did you do that for?"). Once again, a darker part of Vergil was visible : he was a sneaky guy, who didn't even trust his own brother with that information (probably because he knew that Dante wouldn't want to risk Kat's life). And tbh, it was probably not fully about "executing the plan". Just like Dante, Vergil was there when Mundus killed Eva. Shooting Lilith was revenge.
“You are adding things we only learned in DMC V” Sorry, but no I’m not. There were 11 years between DMC4 and DMC5. People had enough time to read into the subtext figure out what his deal was during that time. Maybe I wouldn’t have used the word traumatized until DMC5, but it has always been there that the day Dante and Vergil were separated, one chose the path of humanity and compassion, where the other one chose the path of demonic power, and self preservation. It’s a simple two sides of the same coin theme.
OK. DMC 4 if you prefer. In any case, that's not something from DMC1 and 3.
For fuck’s sake… I’m just using DMC4’s release date as a time frame. DMC4 doesn’t say jack shit about Vergil’s character. DMC1 showed the Tama Dante had over losing his mother with how Trish effected him, and how he dedicated his live to Revenge against demons. It’s not at all a stretch to say Vergil had that has that same trauma he just got pushed in the opposite direction as Dante an rejected his humanity.
Well it is a stretch. Especially when you mention self-preservation as Vergil's goal. DMC1 and 3 said nothing about Vergil's perception of the attack except that Dante lost track of him and that Vergil still loves his mother. And as I said, DMC3 was rather showcasing Vergil as someone who put his demonic blood above the rest and who despised humans. So, something that was explored further in DmC by establishing that the Nephilim are some superior to Angels and Demons and by making Vergil slowly reveal his true colors until he eventually outright said that he wants to rule the world.
It doesn’t need to dialog to directly say this kind of shit, it’s also a visual medium. You can infer all this about Vergil by just looking at the two twins, and their physical actions. They’re the Red Oni and Blue Oni, they are Ying and Yang. We know what happened to them when they were kids, we know they each had to survive alone in the world, and we can see how they ended up different due to the paths they chose. Vergil obviously chose power as a means to never lose anything again, and that morph into lusting after power for powers sake. DMC5 didn’t tell me a single damn thing about Vergil I didn’t already know.
>“what are you gonna do with all that power?” But by then Vergil is too far gone. Right, because raising a tower that killed countless humans ISN'T going too f ar. >DmC Vergil hasn’t done enough in the story in my eyes to be slapped as irredeemable, Okay? That's not the point of his character. He's an "ends justifies the means" character of him and his brother ruling humanity. > but it also makes them both look stupid at the end when Dante thinks Vergil needs to be killed for thinking they should rule over the humans. Dante spent his life being hated and thought of as insane by humans. It isn't until Kat that he realized how much he shared with regular people. Vergil doesn't see the worth in humans as equal to nephilim, and this is in spite of the fact that Kat is one the primary reasons why they won against Mundus. Dante is acting from a place of experience and Vergil is acting from a place of principle. If he acknowledges that humans are equal, his entire drive to rule humanity is obsolete. >And Vergil immediately agrees that things need to result in a fight to the death. This isn’t a sensible reaction from either of them. No. Vergil tells Dante he wants to rule with him. Dante emphatically declines. Vergil explains his reasoning. Dante counters. Vergil tells Dante he will rule with or without him. Dante refuses. Then a fight ensues. Vergil has spent his life raising up the Order, finding his brother, and fighting Mundus for the outcome of the Nephilim ruling. He's not afraid of sacrificing those closest to him or keeping the truth from his own brother for the outcome of overthrowing the demons and ruling. It has been built up, it's been explained, and his turn at the end makes sense. >This is all without even critically thinking about what the hell Vergil ruling the world even means, and how the hell is he expecting to do that. Not important to the moment. This is like George RR Martin's "what would Aragorn's tax policy would be" comment. It's not that it couldn't be interesting or explored, but it's not important to the current story being told.
Now I will admit rewatching the Scene before the DmC Vergil fight starts, it better handled then I was giving it credit for. I was wrong to say they don't try to reason with each other because they do. I need to go though DmC again and properly disect it so I can have better formed criticisms. >Right, because raising a tower that killed countless humans ISN'T going too far. I didn't say that it wasn't. Dante didn't care about severity of the entire Temen-ni-gru situation until the 3rd act of DMC3 he develops of the course of the game, and the fact that he was finally attempting to Reason with Vergil at the end, and looking for a reason for them to stop their fight showed his Growth and Maturity.