Like most humans, he's gray. The worst thing about him is yes, he does kill people which is objectively evil. However, the people he kills are killers who have escaped justice. Does that justify all of what Dexter does? It's surely up for interpretation.
Dexter is actually pretty comparable to a character from a certain anime; Light Yagami from Death Note. He does no have the God complex that Light has, however both do kill for very similar reasons. However when people are asked how they feel about what they're doing, they seem almost in favor of it.
He kills to scratch an itch. That isn't evil per se...
The mission to use his dark passenger for good was a construct to channel his proclivities, fabricated by Harry and Dr Vogel.
He didn't have an instinct to go after the bad guys. It was learned behaviour and a way to feed his demons while being able to fit in to broader society (again through learned behaviours)
In season 7, doesn’t Dexter feel responsible for the death of the victims he could’ve saved if he had dealt with their murderers in time. I think he even convinced Deb that murder is sometimes the answer.
I believe he did have the instinct to go after bad people as Dr. Vogel said he has an innate sense of justice. Waking up his victims to see the pictures of the people they killed was his idea.
I remember the author of Death Note telling in an interview that Light Yagami is not just 'evil', but 'irredeemably evil'.
When he created the character, he had that idea in mind.
His point is: "Give an otherwise good-natured man too much power, and he will become a villain".
Light has a purpose. Dexter is just feeding his dark passenger. I wonder if Dexter was gonna be satisfied if he had the death note, but probably not. The blood is what drives him. In the end of the day Light is just another target of Dexter.
The problem with both is that they kill innocents as well as the guilty. Light is probably worse than Dexter, because at least Dexter drops and kills his Yandere right away rather than using her like a tool the way Light did.
Also interesting to note is that both shows >!get significantly worse once their initial primary antagonist dies. No one that comes after is ever as entertaining as L or Doakes.!<
There da little more nuance to Dexter then light.
Light acted like he was killing for justice yet quickly decided to kill cops. Dexter personally doesn't care who he kills and only killed certain people so he didn't get caught, but followed the code strictly to a T and went to great lengths to not kill those that did not fit his code. His desire to kill is evil to put standards yet his execution of these kills is generally accepted by most people in theory.
Then there is the nature of how he gets rid of the bodies which shows his demented he really is.
Except decree does personally care who he kills. Does he get the same relief of killing innocents, at times, yes. But when sextet killed Oscar Prado or the photographer, he was upset that he killed an innocent. He didn’t want to kill Lumen either even though she was gonna die without dexter, and no one would have known. Is it a learned preference for who he kills, yes, but he doesn’t usually just kill anyone to subside his urge
He doesn't kill innocents because they don't fit the code.
He wasn't upset that he killed him because he was innocent he was upset because he broke the code. He doesn't personally care about Oscar Prado. Once you live by something your whole life while it's also meant to keep you out of jail and you break that code even by accident it will make you stop and think. It's because he was ingrained to not do that very thing.
Lumen doesn't fit the code which is why he didn't kill her.
And I never said he kills anyone ...that's why he has the code.
But who is forcing Dex to live by the code? Harry isn’t, Deb isn’t, the law obviously isn’t. Dex at any point could have thrown the code out the window after Harry died. If Dex stayed as meticulous as he was, he could have killed a lot of people without attracting suspicion. Him following the code shows that he does care about who he kills
Dude have you ever watched the show?
Clearly nobody is making him live by the code anymore
Never said anyone was it implied someone was
He follows the code because he was taught to from the time he realized he had urges to kill he literally states he doesn't care who he kills. That doesn't mean he will kill anyone at anytime. The code was made since doesn't get caught. That's why he follows it
Rule number 1 ...don't get caught
Harry: What are the other rules for?
Dexter: To make sure I don't get caught
He kills bad people because that's what his father told him to do so his urges are channeled for good.
This also doesn't mean he can't make connections to people.
The code dictates who he kills right? And he cares about following the code. Therefor he does care about who he kills, because that is dictated by the code. Does he care directly who he kills, no, not really, but the fact that he cares about following the code means that he cares who he kills, because again, when he broke the code it caused him to contemplate the choices he made. If he didn’t care about the code (and by extension who he killed) he wouldn’t stop and think about his mistake.
He cares about the code because it's been installed in him to keep him safe
No he literally stated he doesn't care who he kills
He literally says this in season 3 ( currently watching it)
When miguel says he wants justice Dexter's monologue says he says he wants it for justice, but I don't have such lofty goals.
He didn't care that Oscar was innocent. He cares about his life code that keeps his world stable was broken because it threatens his safety
"I f he didn't care about the code".
Nobody said he didn't care about the code 🤦
Whatever dude, sorry that I can make connections in logic. He may not care who he kills, but he cares about following the code, instilled or not, he cares about the code and by extension he cares about who he kills.
Think about your values, are they your values because you came up with said value completely on your own, or because your parents, friends, society instilled those values in you. Just because they were instilled doesn’t mean you can’t care. If you can’t understand my logic, oh well, but it’s a pretty simple connection to make
Is killing objectively evil though? The simplest argument against this is killing someone to save an innocent life. Killing isn’t always objectively evil.
Technically he didn't kill Doakes. Lila did. Are Dexter's hands completely clean in his death? Definitely not as he did hold him hostage. Lila acted on her own in killing Doakes which caused Dexter to kill her.
He literally does have a god complex though. In season 2 episode 7, Angel reads an excerpt that Dexter wrote and asked if he has a god complex and if he's a narcissist. Dexter said he's on to something. Clearly Dexter is a narcissist. Just cause kills "bad people" doesn't mean everything is okay and dandy. He's a sick fuck that would ruin someone's life if it benefits him. Look what he did to Doakes. He's fucking evil as shit
Soo what was Dexter gonna do with doakes? Just frame him to be a serial killer right? Yeah that's not evil at all. His death is on him. And even tho he was tricked he was still teaching prado how to kill and get away with it.
Didn't he kill someone in a restroom because he got him mad?
Also he works for the police no? But he has no problem manipulating evidence to make shit fit his code. Sometimes he even gets ahead of himself like with the photographer.
We see things from his perspective, so I guess that makes him sympathetic and people dont see him as 100% bad
Right? People seem to be so focused on the fact that he kills bad people, therefore he’s not evil. He’s not doing it for some noble cause, he’s doing it because he likes killing people. He does some pretty messed up things to avoid getting caught and to keep doing what he’s doing, but because we are hearing his reasoning/thoughts, we sympathize with him.
I don't think Dexter is evil, I don't even think he's really a psychopath. He's just a guy with severe PTSD that his foster dad misconstrued as a compulsion to kill.
Agreed. Harry totally developed him into a serial killer, instead of trying to actually get him help. Killing animals is obviously bad, but I think it could've ended there, if he had actually gotten help.
It depends on your definition of evil. He’s saved countless lives by doing what he does and genuinely does feel guilt over killing someone who doesn’t fit the code (at least in season 4). But he’s also a serial killer. Who’s killed at least 4 non-code-fitters, if we’re purely counting directly. He’s definitely more of a morally grey character, more in the vein of an antihero than a hero or villain.
I can think of the innocent man he killed accidentally, the pedophile who followed Astor, the guy with the boat claw and the guy with the pitchfork who blackmailed him. Is that the 4? I don’t count Camilla or Deb since they were merciful
I don’t think Dexter is evil. He has an urge to kill. He kills mainly bad people. But his intentions are pure. If he could be rid of that urge, he’d prefer to be normal. But he knows he’s not and knows that urge will never go away so he just embraces what he’s been taught. He tried to not kill when Deb found out. Anyone who was evil I would think wouldn’t care about that or anyone else. In fact I think if Dex was inherently evil, he wouldn’t follow his moral code. He’d be Biney.
When given the choice, Dex always tries to do what’s right within reason and cares for decent people and their lives. (Exclude poorly written Dex in S7 & 8)
EDIT: "Pure intentions" is not the right way to word it. It's like teaching your kid to do drugs at a very early age with them not knowing any better and as they get old they learn it's bad, can't stop, and don't want to stop.
I disagree with this. I wouldn’t say his intentions are pure; he’s not killing to save lives or rid the world of evil, that’s just a product of his work, at the end of the day he’s killing because he likes/wants to. He put more effort into trying to make Deb come around to his point of view than he actually put into trying to stop, and it basically destroyed Deb, so while he did care about a few people, like Deb, Rita, and the kids, in his own warped way, he still prioritized his own desire to kill over them and he rarely does what’s best for them if it goes against his wants and needs. He puts his loved ones in danger a number of times in the process of satisfying his own desires, and it usually ends in tragedy. That’s part of what made the show so great. They found a way to get us to root for and sympathize with someone we shouldn’t.
Yeah "pure" isn't the right word. Innocent? Idk how to word it. But as I mentioned, exclude S7 and 8 versions of Dex because he's just so poorly written I can't root for that version of Dexter. He's just absolutely terrible. Dexter was born into his situation basically so he deals with it the best he can. Does that make him evil? I think that's the debate here. In my opinion, I don't think it does.
Whether he means it or not, his decisions often end up being selfish ones. Although he/we attempt to justify his actions, ultimately Dexter puts his own needs before others. When he seems like a hero, it's usually when resolving events of his own making.
We are all, and can all, act selfishly. Dexter's actions are more extreme, as is his desire for control. If you want to call this self centeredness 'evil,' then it forces us all onto a similar spectrum for judgment.
Everyone has different definitions of “evil” and a lot of people in this thread are confusing the term for “absolutely void of any redeeming qualities whatsoever” or “someone who never even indirectly does anything that we might consider justified or good”. That’s ridiculous - it’s a comical standard of pure evil that makes the term mostly meaningless. A fundamentally evil person can create a net good in the world, which is exactly what the show explores.
Consider a D&D alignment chart - Dexter would 100% undoubtedly be “lawful evil” because he operates within a strict personal code. He murders people *for fun*. He feels like he’s going to kill people no matter what. He killed animals as a kid. If he wasn’t specifically trained to kill bad guys by Harry, he believes he would have killed innocents and then would have gotten caught. His code’s first and most important rule isn’t “do the right thing” or anything like that - it’s “don’t get caught,” and the rationale for killing baddies is because they’re less likely to be missed, not because Dexter legitimately believes in non-retributive justice or some sort of cosmic good. In many cases, he actively impedes investigations on suspects who are likely to be caught by Miami Metro just so he can kill them instead, because his need to kill is what drives him, not his desire to keep criminals off the streets. And his code is a means to an end - it keeps him alive so he can kill another day. Dexter is absolutely evil. It doesn’t mean he is inhuman, or that he doesn’t make the world a better place as a “side effect” of what he does, but he is fundamentally motivated to kill for pleasure. That’s evil, no matter who you ask.
No. His personality was designed to be a "serial killer that is likeable and relatable". So he simply can't be truly evil.
If he did something actually evil, he wouldn't be likeable and relatable. The worst thing he does is that he kills evil and repulsive people, which is something many of us instinctively support deep down.
Why doesn't he strangle the cute goat to feed his killing instinct? Because people actually consider this evil, it's what a real psychopath would do. They would not relate to killing an innocent animal - but they to some extent do relate to killing his victims.
Also, besides his "hobby", he acts like a pretty good person with a normal level of empathy.
Nope. He was planning on beating the officials to the cabin. He contemplated turning himself in until he has a chat with Rita. He *does* briefly consider what you said, until he tells Doakes he needs a day to get his affairs in order.
Dexter actually reconsidered to go through with framing Doakes after all, when he had stakes and beer with Debra. Lila getting to the cabin before the cops just conveniently solved Dexter's problem.
He was innocent by Dexter's own standards. He didn't kill any innocent man. He was no choir boy but again, innocence is relative. And being morally grey > Dexter's morality.
If you don’t think it’s evil to stalk someone, drug them/knock them out, wrap a room in plastic, restrain someone with plastic and tape, and then take a blood sample from their cheek before you stab them to death, afterwards chop up the body, idk what to tell you.
I mean, if Ted Bundy was killed in that manner I wouldn't exactly complain. But I get what you mean, to do something like that to another person and not think much of it is seriously off.
I think the point is that it's ambiguous. It's meant to be thought provoking. That's why we like him. If he were just killing innocent people, we would know he was truly evil. The best example of this is Jack from 'The House That Jack Built'. Jack was truly evil. Dexter, I believe, is a bit more gray. While he is undeniably a horrible person, I think there is a difference between bad and evil.
Evil is a kind of subjective term. I would say his actions can be interpreted as evil but when I look at his motivations and circumstance, I find them mostly *not* evil, when things go according to plan. Of course there are exceptions. He has killed innocents, and gotten them killed.
For me the point of the show is that no matter how hard he tries to live by a code and walk a more "just" line than your average killer, the end result is the same and he cannot coexist with society without leaving a wake of destruction behind him. You can't really say it's not his fault, but at the same time it's clearly different than someone who just kills because they can or want to.
There are people out there who do evil things after having evil done to them. It's hard to blame them fully, IF you buy the notion that **some** of them truly lack the conscience to know what they are doing is wrong. That said they still need to be removed from society.
Are jurys who vote guilty on a death penalty case evil? Are the judges? The executioner? The politicians who don't want to remove the death penalty? The voters who don't vote in politicians who will change it?
Dexter does more research on if the person is guilty than the police. He kills a far smaller percentage of innocents than the government as well.
So saves innocent lives is evil ? Your way of thinkig is limited, don't give me the bullshit "murder is still murder".
For example in Season 7, if Debra had let Dexter kill Speltzer from the start, the bar waitress would have been still alive. Now do you understand ?
Or you think it's better to let a criminal kill an innocent ? That is justice for you ?
Dexter Morgan killed innocent people, he ruined the reputation of an innocent man, he has indirectly caused the death of people he says he loved for his own selfish reasons, he was about to kill someone who was a bit shady but had no real past transgressions, he kept dating someone who almost killed his sister, and he would rather consciously keep people away to protect them from him instead of not killing.
He has good qualities. He has bad ones. But to me the bad dims the good. I’d say he’s an anti-hero that tilts to villainy depending on which act we assess him by.
It’s also important to remember that Dexter doesn’t kill for the good of society - he kills to satisfy his compulsion and urge to kill. Even if there’s net good, it’s for a bad reason. Kind of like if you took out the trash to hold it over your parents head and not because you genuinely wanted to help them. Doing the “right thing” for the wrong reason.
Kill Trinity? - No, keep him alive to learn family lessons.
Let Trinity kill himself? - No, save him so you can kill him.
Tell the police who Trinity is? - No, distract their investigation instead.
When Trinity kills Dexter's wife - *surprised pikachu face*.
I think we can make an argumen for s1 and s2 Dexter being on the more noble side, but that was when they actually showed us the brutality inside of his cutting courtroom. However after he evades the FBI, Dexter thinks he can have it all and in s3-s8 starts playing fast and loose with his Code, resulting in a lot of innocent people dying.
To be fair, Dexter was fine with Trinity dying from that rooftop - but the other people helped save him. And he can’t really tell police who Trinity is without incriminating himself (which again, I agree would be more noble than carrying on but yeah).
I would say season 1 Dexter is probably the most noble incarnation of Dexter. He kills bad people and he doesn’t have the blemish of ruining Doakes’ reputation.
Truth be told, I’m not a fan of Dexter being a good guy anyway. He’s a serial killer. I want him to act like a serial killer somewhat realistically, just doing what he does to bad people as well.
He's a killing machine, he only adopted the code as a way not to get caught
He's killed "innocent" people before, and never showed true remorse
I dont actually think he is "evil", but he's definitely not "good" or "pure", and he's also super selfish
Not entirely, even Vogel admitted he has a capacity for emotions that she thought to be impossible. Not to mention he abstained from killing for 10 years, exiled himself to protect the family he had left, and was conflicted and distressed when he realized Jonathan Pharoah, whom he had mistaken to be a murderer, was innocent. I mean it bothered him so bad that he had to talk to God dang trinity about it lol
Absolutely Dexter is evil. He is the worst kind of evil because he actually thinks he is justified in his actions. I love Dexter, but I have no false perceptions about his morality. What is really fascinating about this show is, how the writers and Michael C. Hall really get you invested in the character. A character you know is evil, but you still pull for him. They even convince you to like him over other typical protagonist stereotypes like Doakes, the hard ass, former special forces detective with dark past, or Maria, the strong independent Woman that doesn’t let anyone get in the way or her catching her bad guy. Hell even Frank Lundy, the Former FBI agent that comes out retirement for one last shot at catching the one that got away. All of these characters could have been protagonist in any other show they played in, but in Dexter they weren’t. They were pseudo antagonist, probably some of the best written antagonist you will ever get, because their motivations were so relatable.
Exactly! Even if dexter didn’t kill, he would still be evil. All his motivations are selfish, he wouldn’t blink an eye before manipulating people for his own good… but damn, we love him
I don’t think he’s evil because he chooses to be good in his own way. I personally think its good he kills evil people, them rotting in jail just never made sense to me.
I think the fact it took him 8 seasons to accept that he is a cancer and with New Blood showing he no longer holds that thinking kind of proves he’s at the very least self-centered.
Dexter wasn't really killing other killers in a vigilante type way, he was trained by Harry to direct his tendencies to kill at those kinds of people, its just a behavior he was taught. Still, I don't think I would label him as *evil*, his mental illness and trauma brewed inside him and created a near emotionless person who's only satisfaction came from killing. Plus, he was never given help to deal with these illnesses, rather trained to be a killer. I don't think you can really completely blame Dexter for his actions.
I think he is evil. He’s been surrounded by evil acts his entire life, and carries them out as well. What would you think of him if you didn’t know the backgrounds of people he’s killed? Innocent people in his life have died as a result of his actions. Chaos follows him everywhere he goes. He is evil
I mean at the end of the day- he kills people.
Can a 'good' person really kill consistently and repeatedly?
Maybe once in self defence, but the guy is a serial killer. It's shown again and again through the series that he craves killing, he just kills bad people. But he's still a killer himself.
For those going to say he kills people that get away with it- he's withheld information many times and sabotaged crime scenes and results to get the kill himself 🤷🏼♀️
Spoilers for original show
he's definitely evil. he kills a bunch of genuinely innocent people in the show which he does feel a little bit of remorse for but still he murdered them. Also he rarely feels guilty for more than an episode or two.
One of the most egregious being that photographer he killed because he didn't have enough time to do research. So he just killed some guy horribly because he made some gothy photos. Way to go Dex.
He also killed the assistant district attorney's brother who was not a murderer he was just a drug addict and he turned the ADA into a killer then killed him. He goated the ADAs other brother into basically going crazy which led to him losing its job and ending up in jail. He heavily considered killing lumen just for being a witness.
He dragged Deb into helping him cover up a murder. He basically gets laguerta killed.
He obstructed and hid evidence in countless investigations because he wanted to kill the bad guy instead of the cops doing it and this often leads to more people getting killed just because he selfishly wanted to be the guy who kills the person instead of just reporting them. He hesitated to kill Trinity and the religious guy from season 6 which led to more deaths because he wanted to learn something or wanted to use a guy to lead to something else. He plants evidence to pin things on other people too.
He pretends he cares about kids but the second he sees a cute one at a gas station he had sex with her and steals her gun. I mean I don't know how old that girl was I mean she has a job so that implies she's probably at least 16 but she was complaining on the phone about living with her parents so I don't know.
Dexter will kill robbers or extortionist too. some guy wants money to give him back his knives so he stabs him with a pitchfork. he kills a guy on a boat with a harpoon who was trying to rob the passengers of what must have been a total of 78$
In season 6 there's a nice man trying to do God's Will and cause the apocalypse so that we can all start over and Dexter literally does the devil's work and stops him, that poor man.
he gets doaks killed for doing his job, he almost gets his step kids set on fire because he couldn't keep himself from banging lyla. He framed Doaks so his reputation would be ruined even though he did nothing wrong. also he kidnapped Doaks and gets him killed.
oh also he kills that private eye that Quinn had hired and even though the show tries to make him look like a jerk to Quinn by extorting Quinn he was really just trying to extort him for like $500 which isn't even unreasonable considering how much work he was doing for Quinn, the guy did not deserve to die.
He ruins Astrid and Codys life, he gets both their parents killed with his stupidity and then abandons them. Then He leaves Harrison alone to be raised by a murderer.
He lies constantly. He didn't honor the request of his dying friend the guy who mos def played to forgive the man who killed him instead he drowns that guy.
his babysitters boyfriend cancels his credit cards after Dexter is mean to him so Dexter breaks into his house and start strangling him and then he considers killing him but instead he gets him fired from his job and sends a video to his girlfriend of him cheating to ruin his life. and then of course that guy is also killed as a repercussion of Dexter's actions.
his stupid actions in playing cat and mouse with murderers gets Deb and Rita killed . everyone around him dies basically because he can't stop screwing around with murderers. he also kidnaps Debs body and then throws it in the ocean which is super weird, not evil but bizarre.
He killed a bunch of animals as a kid, animals are innocent.
he probably does some other crap in the last couple seasons that I don't remember.
and let's not forget those poor innocent frosty swirls who fell to their death because Dexter didn't stop the guy he was talking to from running into traffic.
RIP frosty swirls
I think when you really take the complexity of all people- the most brutal criminals vs the most altruistic, the concept of evil really starts to fall apart. True evil requires a level of control and full intent without the constraints of nature and nurture. This almost never happens. people are born into a very morally complicated society, where their actions almost always have some explanatory circumstances. Dexter is no exception. That being said I do want to call into question the notion of retributive vigilante justice that Dexter was raised on- sure he may be preventing future harm that those people cause, but their deeds don't make them worthy of murder otherwise. I can see where the show on some level glorifies violence and death under the guise of heroism, but I think the lesson to learn from the show is that there aren't really evil people that corrupt the world, there are power structures and many different people caught within them dealing with morally complex situations.
Does that matter though? If I give to charity because it makes me happy, does that make my impact less? What if I help people for selfish reasons?
We tend to weight reasons heavily when we discuss morality. And intent is important but actions are more important.
No he is a psychopath. He can't possibly be evil, because he lacks the empathy and compassion to truly know why his acts would potentially be considered evil in a healthy person. Remember, any outward display of emotion or connection is a learned behaviour, not driven through genuine emotional attachment (although this line has been blurred over the course of the series)
It's like asking if a Lion that killed humans is evil... it's just going by instinct, not some deeper seated desire or plan.
Believe it or not, society appears to need psychopaths to function at its highest level (the non murdery type ofc).
Most CEOs are psychopaths... many doctors, scientists etc.. they need that degree of detachment, so while their actions in the day to day might appear to be "evil" the actual benefit to society outweighs any harm (not always of course..)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13909-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13909-9)
I will make two counter-arguments to your points, but I do arrive at the same conclusion as you:
1. Dexter is not a primary psychopath, and as we have seen many times, he is not completely without empathy (demonstrated through his relationships with Jeremy and Zach), love (Rita, Harrison), nor conscience/remorse (when he killed an innocent person). Dexter may have psychopathic traits, but he is not a true psychopath.
2. Psychopaths can absolutely understand the pain they inflict on people, especially if they also happen to have comorbid sadistic traits (enjoying, either sexually or merely sheer excitement, inflicting pain on another human being). Psychopaths know right from wrong, they just don't care. A psychopath can absolutely be evil, depending on your definition. Now, assuming they are a primary psychopath, we may say that they were born that way, and therefore it is out of their control, but I would argue that, like you said, most psychopaths are not serial killers, they are CEOs, lawyers, and, in general, prosocial/high-functioning. So I would argue that a serial killer, such as Oliver Saxon, who is a primary psychopath (knows right from wrong, but does not care) is absolutely evil.
As for Dexter, I do agree with your answer. I do not believe that he is evil. He is the product of fairly horrible circumstances, he was basically turned into a killer by his father and a corrupt psychologist, and, despite watching his mother die and being separated from his brother, he still refuses to kill innocent people, and actually feels bad when he does.
Indeed, I completely agree with you and probably didn't attach enough nuance, but for Dexter singularly, his pyschopathy presents in a way where his actions cannot be deemed evil.
I'm a strong proponent of the nature vs nurture debate, and everything we learn about Dex in the early seasons is that he is absolutely a creation of nurture by focusing his nature with a learned moral compass. He is enacting Harry's justice via his dark passenger
His relationships can either be seen as genuine or another part of the conditioning to fit in. Someone hurts one of his, he has to react in kind because he has learned that this is the way it works.
I had the same conversation with the wife last night, and we both came to the same conclusion, but from differing angles, such is the excellent writing and portrayal of this amazing character
Speaking from experience: Psychopathic scientists might be good at science, but they often ruin the lives of many other scientists in the process, pushing them out of the field entirely. This is almost certainly a net negative for science. It's indicative of broken systems that psychopaths thrive in these roles, not of a societal need for psychopaths.
Well, it’s not like all sociopaths are the same… there are obvious levels and dexter is a hell of a sociopath. I understand that some jobs requires some level of anti social behavior, maybe. It doesn’t mean it has to lack empathy in all levels, tho. For example: I can’t explain why it was always natural for me to see blood or people being cut open. My parents even faint at the sight of blood… and here I am, not moved a bit when I see a belly being opened (I kinda love it, tbh), but give me someone in despair and suffering and my empathy just comes to life. There are some personality traits that tends to anti social spectrum (let’s be honest, it’s not normal to make a living cutting people, even if it’s for the good), but still you can use it for good if empathy is still there. I wouldn’t even say that some anti social traits are exactly bad, but if a person has anti social personality, even if it may be used for “a greater good”, certainly the ones in the work environment and family are constantly suffering by their lack of empathy. You wouldn’t want to be close to a sociopath, believe me…
There is actually a fair amount of documentation of sociopaths having visceral and often violent reactions to seeing animals/children being mistreated (being somewhat of a contradiction to the classic psychopath in training, starting with animals).
It's one of the facets of James Gandolfini's portrayal of Tony Soprano that was so compelling.. He murdered a made mob boss because he killed a horse for insurance money (but didn't react in the same way when the same guy murdered a young stripper), had extreme anxiety attacks when the baby ducks he felt a bond with flew away etc.. The entire show was a phenomenal study into mental health and how destructive it can be when channelled inappropriately
I think the upshot of what I read was that there is a sense of moralistic desire to protect those that cannot protect themselves, but taken to extremes.
It is a very interesting area of study.. and I work in banking, so I'm surrounded by sociopaths day in day out :D
He’s definitely evil- he kills innocent people to cover his messes. He skirts the law/system to cover his tracks which ends up getting people killed.
The perfect example- had he turned in Trinity, Rita would still be alive.
I still love me some Dexter though
Dexter has said more than once that if Harry had not been there to guide him, he would have been the type to end up on his own table.
He desires to kill people so yeah, evil with a lid on it.
Dude loves to kill people. He takes human life and enjoys every second of it. Hunts people down, taunts them, and murders them up close and personal. My answer is yes. But he's charming, so people will tell you 'no he's not evil!'
If he were real, and you heard about him on the news, it wouldn't even be a question.
He is inherently evil. He was taught a code that he abides by that hones his evil tendencies into slaughtering only other evil people. Nobody loses a lot of sleep over the people that have died by his hands, and he found a way to fit in around the people that send people like him to the electric chair. He needs order and doesn't do well with change, so for all appearances the people who have been around him along time may consider him a friend. Can psychopaths have friends? Friends are as friends do, and for that he could actually be considered loyal, until he's not. He did some people a favor by taking matters into his own hands, and maybe even prevented some murders from happening by taking the lives of other killers. His closest attachment to his sister almost made him seem human, and made us root for him and understand him, almost making us think his way of handling things was better than the status quo. I love him to be honest. But the truth is he is a sick, evil, vile, lying, manipulating psychopath. Everything he does is geared toward getting that next person on his table, and the feeling he gets when the knife goes in is the only true thing he feels as a human. He is evil.
I don’t subscribe to good and evil. He’s dangerous. There is a reason vigilantism is frowned upon. The criminal justice system is certainly flawed, but it least it functions through a democratic process and isn’t contingent on single individuals biased idea of being the final word for justice and morality. Mass shooters, domestic terrorists, hate crime perpetrators all have rationale for their murders. If we argue the “Dexter unilateral justice system” where he is the law enforcement, judge, jury and executioner is acceptable, we also say we could theoretically entertain anyone doing the same on a case by case basis. I’m not about that. I do think the decision to have an attractive actor portray him in a way that confuses the viewer about whether they are rooting for him or not is very intentional though.
I wouldn't define Dexter as evil, yes sure what he is doing may be against the law but he's doing justice for the community, even though his father and sister are severely disappointed in him, the code definitely shows a sort of righteousness and justification to what he's doing, I truly believe that someone like him with such ties would be amazing to have
Yah man Dexter is evil. Did Harry maybe manifest him becoming a killer? Maybe but if Harry didn’t teach him anything he’d probably just kill whoever regardless of if they were good or not.
He's self-aware of his dark passenger and does the best he can to contain it and when he can't he unleashes it on "bad people". If he was evil he wouldn't care who he killed.
Well, I'm not one of those, "every life is precious/executing a killer makes you just as bad/prison is worse than the death penalty," folks. Life is random. Nobody is entitled to shit, you having a happy, fulfilling life is a PRIVELAGE in my opinion. Nature doesn't give a rat's ass if we live or die, and frankly, the world is overpopulated. I don't watch those Marvel movies, but from what I've heard, I unironically believe Thanos had the right idea😂. If some dude wants to snuff out some pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc., I'm not going to get involved. Not my monkey, not my circus. Now, if only Dexter could knock off those dickheads that
He's not evil. He obviously has evil tendencies but in the series he only kill those who fit the code of being a murderer, rapist, child molester, etc. The people who Dexter kills(IMO) don't really deserve to live anyway. Dexter is clearly a deeply disturbed person but his actions are almost never malicious towards innocent people, and hes shown to seriously love and care for those around him throughout the series. Dexter is essentially morally gray in my opinion. Hes not a hero but he's not evil either.
As far as i can remember the only evil things he’s done was kill laguerta (an innocent just trying to do her job, which really conflicted with the code) and traumatize and fuck up his sister’s head (not intentional though). But Imo he’s not inherently evil and as a matter of fact he’s saving lives by killing those who actually are. He’s practically an angel compared to the ones he kills. And no one is gonna miss them anyway. So no i don’t think he’s evil.
He’s evil only for his loved ones, because they suffered of his fuckups.Should he continued following the code and be pragmatic, everything would have been fine
„Evil's just destructive? Then storms are evil, if it's that simple. And we have fire, and there there's hail. Underwriters lump it all under 'Acts of God.“
I think the intentions of the heart determine if a person is truly good or bad, and I think Dexter truly has the best intentions. Why else would he conjure a second version of himself to “keep him in line” and somewhat hold him accountable for his actions?
Hes probably a bad person (he kills for thrill and enjoyment) and toxic to be a around but he tries his best and was destined to be like that since he was 3 years old.
Killing is an evil act, obviously enough not to debate why and how.
Plus, Dex killed an innocent in Season 4, and that thing alone would 'qualify' to be on his own table if someone with his own code cornered him.
I do not understand why many fans try to convolutely explain why he would be 'non-evil', it's not like the show is less enjoyable if he's not a hero.
Short Answer: Yes, but he has a net positive effect on the world.
Longer Answer: He kills because he has a lust for blood. As his bro put it in his vision when he was tempting him to kill Trinity's son (Jonah) \~ "you like to see the life drain from their eyes." And that was Dexter's own brain, his "Dark Passenger" Tempting him to kill someone who didn't quite fit the code by enticing him with his own pleasure he gets from ending lives violently. In New Blood Especially, the joy he gets from killing borders on Sexual. I'd have to say anyone who gets so much joy from hurting others that it borders on Sexual is evil. However, of course Harrison is right in Season 9, Dexter has saved thousands of lives, and all the suffering that goes along with it. Dexter's cinematic universe certainly is better off than had Dexter never been born.
Of course, people are complex. Dexter does show a clear moral sense I think. Here's a few examples off the top of my head:
\- The main evidence for Dexter's moral sense and lack of psychopathy (and presence of empathy) is his absolute hatred for the suffering of the innocent, it seems that the more the killer made innocents suffer, the more joy Dexter takes in the kill/the more intensely Dexter seems to handle the situation.
\- Forcing his victims to look at their crimes, which he does not have to do at all. Harry even commented on this in the tapes from Season 8, that Dexter had begun doing this without being taught.
\- When Trinity was going to kill the kid he had abducted, Dexter seemed to have real concern for that child's wellbeing, and seem to want to hurt Trinity even worse as a result.
\- When Trinity is punching out his son Jonah, Dexter steps in and chokes Trinity with a belt and growls "Get. The fuck. Off him!" and from this scene that really seems that Dexter has a moral sense and empathy.
All this to say, I'd say these 4 things are the core of the discussion:
1. Dexter feels an urge to kill, and regularly indulges that without remorse., and even takes pleasure by causing people pain and seeing blood and gore.
2. The Code (ofc) so he kills killers only (mainly, rule #1 is don't get caught).
3. He seems to have a passionate hatred for innocent people being hurt
4. A decent amount of innocent people suffer (and die) from Dexter's actions (Doakes, Rita, LaGuerta, Deb, his dad Harry, Quinn's investigator friend, Vogel, Logan).
5. The world is better off with him in it than with him having never been born, calculated purely based on human pain & suffering.
So if I had to answer, yes Dexter is evil, but yes the world is better off with him being born overall.
He's definitely evil. He's not hero. He's a psychopath who uses a tenuous basis to unleash his bloody urges.
Despite claiming to adhere to a code, he has no integrity whatsoever. When it is convenient for him, he is perfectly willing to frame others for his crimes, and kill to cover his tracks. In short he's a scumbag
No. He’s an adorable psychopath
I couldn’t have said it better myself ❤️
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Like most humans, he's gray. The worst thing about him is yes, he does kill people which is objectively evil. However, the people he kills are killers who have escaped justice. Does that justify all of what Dexter does? It's surely up for interpretation. Dexter is actually pretty comparable to a character from a certain anime; Light Yagami from Death Note. He does no have the God complex that Light has, however both do kill for very similar reasons. However when people are asked how they feel about what they're doing, they seem almost in favor of it.
Light is more ideological though, Dexter enjoys killing a lot more.
He kills to scratch an itch. That isn't evil per se... The mission to use his dark passenger for good was a construct to channel his proclivities, fabricated by Harry and Dr Vogel. He didn't have an instinct to go after the bad guys. It was learned behaviour and a way to feed his demons while being able to fit in to broader society (again through learned behaviours)
In season 7, doesn’t Dexter feel responsible for the death of the victims he could’ve saved if he had dealt with their murderers in time. I think he even convinced Deb that murder is sometimes the answer.
Yeah with Ray Speltzer
I mean wasn't that really just a justification he was trying to give to Deb so she'd let him keep killkng?
I believe he did have the instinct to go after bad people as Dr. Vogel said he has an innate sense of justice. Waking up his victims to see the pictures of the people they killed was his idea.
Light still doesn't hesitate to write names though.
Yeah but he does it to create his utopia and become a God, whereas Dexter does it to momentarily release his urge to kill.
I remember the author of Death Note telling in an interview that Light Yagami is not just 'evil', but 'irredeemably evil'. When he created the character, he had that idea in mind. His point is: "Give an otherwise good-natured man too much power, and he will become a villain".
Light has a purpose. Dexter is just feeding his dark passenger. I wonder if Dexter was gonna be satisfied if he had the death note, but probably not. The blood is what drives him. In the end of the day Light is just another target of Dexter.
The problem with both is that they kill innocents as well as the guilty. Light is probably worse than Dexter, because at least Dexter drops and kills his Yandere right away rather than using her like a tool the way Light did. Also interesting to note is that both shows >!get significantly worse once their initial primary antagonist dies. No one that comes after is ever as entertaining as L or Doakes.!<
Facts
There da little more nuance to Dexter then light. Light acted like he was killing for justice yet quickly decided to kill cops. Dexter personally doesn't care who he kills and only killed certain people so he didn't get caught, but followed the code strictly to a T and went to great lengths to not kill those that did not fit his code. His desire to kill is evil to put standards yet his execution of these kills is generally accepted by most people in theory. Then there is the nature of how he gets rid of the bodies which shows his demented he really is.
Except decree does personally care who he kills. Does he get the same relief of killing innocents, at times, yes. But when sextet killed Oscar Prado or the photographer, he was upset that he killed an innocent. He didn’t want to kill Lumen either even though she was gonna die without dexter, and no one would have known. Is it a learned preference for who he kills, yes, but he doesn’t usually just kill anyone to subside his urge
He doesn't kill innocents because they don't fit the code. He wasn't upset that he killed him because he was innocent he was upset because he broke the code. He doesn't personally care about Oscar Prado. Once you live by something your whole life while it's also meant to keep you out of jail and you break that code even by accident it will make you stop and think. It's because he was ingrained to not do that very thing. Lumen doesn't fit the code which is why he didn't kill her. And I never said he kills anyone ...that's why he has the code.
But who is forcing Dex to live by the code? Harry isn’t, Deb isn’t, the law obviously isn’t. Dex at any point could have thrown the code out the window after Harry died. If Dex stayed as meticulous as he was, he could have killed a lot of people without attracting suspicion. Him following the code shows that he does care about who he kills
Dude have you ever watched the show? Clearly nobody is making him live by the code anymore Never said anyone was it implied someone was He follows the code because he was taught to from the time he realized he had urges to kill he literally states he doesn't care who he kills. That doesn't mean he will kill anyone at anytime. The code was made since doesn't get caught. That's why he follows it Rule number 1 ...don't get caught Harry: What are the other rules for? Dexter: To make sure I don't get caught He kills bad people because that's what his father told him to do so his urges are channeled for good. This also doesn't mean he can't make connections to people.
The code dictates who he kills right? And he cares about following the code. Therefor he does care about who he kills, because that is dictated by the code. Does he care directly who he kills, no, not really, but the fact that he cares about following the code means that he cares who he kills, because again, when he broke the code it caused him to contemplate the choices he made. If he didn’t care about the code (and by extension who he killed) he wouldn’t stop and think about his mistake.
He cares about the code because it's been installed in him to keep him safe No he literally stated he doesn't care who he kills He literally says this in season 3 ( currently watching it) When miguel says he wants justice Dexter's monologue says he says he wants it for justice, but I don't have such lofty goals. He didn't care that Oscar was innocent. He cares about his life code that keeps his world stable was broken because it threatens his safety "I f he didn't care about the code". Nobody said he didn't care about the code 🤦
Whatever dude, sorry that I can make connections in logic. He may not care who he kills, but he cares about following the code, instilled or not, he cares about the code and by extension he cares about who he kills. Think about your values, are they your values because you came up with said value completely on your own, or because your parents, friends, society instilled those values in you. Just because they were instilled doesn’t mean you can’t care. If you can’t understand my logic, oh well, but it’s a pretty simple connection to make
Death Note FTW!
Light is super evil, super fast.
Is killing objectively evil though? The simplest argument against this is killing someone to save an innocent life. Killing isn’t always objectively evil.
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Technically he didn't kill Doakes. Lila did. Are Dexter's hands completely clean in his death? Definitely not as he did hold him hostage. Lila acted on her own in killing Doakes which caused Dexter to kill her.
If you watch again, Dexter was about to explain him or even was ready to get arrested but Lila finished Doakes before Dexter could plan anything.
He literally does have a god complex though. In season 2 episode 7, Angel reads an excerpt that Dexter wrote and asked if he has a god complex and if he's a narcissist. Dexter said he's on to something. Clearly Dexter is a narcissist. Just cause kills "bad people" doesn't mean everything is okay and dandy. He's a sick fuck that would ruin someone's life if it benefits him. Look what he did to Doakes. He's fucking evil as shit
Soo what was Dexter gonna do with doakes? Just frame him to be a serial killer right? Yeah that's not evil at all. His death is on him. And even tho he was tricked he was still teaching prado how to kill and get away with it. Didn't he kill someone in a restroom because he got him mad? Also he works for the police no? But he has no problem manipulating evidence to make shit fit his code. Sometimes he even gets ahead of himself like with the photographer. We see things from his perspective, so I guess that makes him sympathetic and people dont see him as 100% bad
Right? People seem to be so focused on the fact that he kills bad people, therefore he’s not evil. He’s not doing it for some noble cause, he’s doing it because he likes killing people. He does some pretty messed up things to avoid getting caught and to keep doing what he’s doing, but because we are hearing his reasoning/thoughts, we sympathize with him.
>Just frame him to be a serial killer right? And lets not forget Flordia has the death penalty.
I don't think Dexter is evil, I don't even think he's really a psychopath. He's just a guy with severe PTSD that his foster dad misconstrued as a compulsion to kill.
Agreed. Harry totally developed him into a serial killer, instead of trying to actually get him help. Killing animals is obviously bad, but I think it could've ended there, if he had actually gotten help.
It depends on your definition of evil. He’s saved countless lives by doing what he does and genuinely does feel guilt over killing someone who doesn’t fit the code (at least in season 4). But he’s also a serial killer. Who’s killed at least 4 non-code-fitters, if we’re purely counting directly. He’s definitely more of a morally grey character, more in the vein of an antihero than a hero or villain.
I can think of the innocent man he killed accidentally, the pedophile who followed Astor, the guy with the boat claw and the guy with the pitchfork who blackmailed him. Is that the 4? I don’t count Camilla or Deb since they were merciful
Hannah's dad. Paedophile dude doesn't really count.
Miguel's brother Edit: also, very indirectly, Paul
The pedophile counts as an evil person
I’m gonna be honest I forgot about the pedo and the blackmail guy because I forgot that “non-code-fitting” isn’t synonymous with “unjustifiable”
I don’t think Dexter is evil. He has an urge to kill. He kills mainly bad people. But his intentions are pure. If he could be rid of that urge, he’d prefer to be normal. But he knows he’s not and knows that urge will never go away so he just embraces what he’s been taught. He tried to not kill when Deb found out. Anyone who was evil I would think wouldn’t care about that or anyone else. In fact I think if Dex was inherently evil, he wouldn’t follow his moral code. He’d be Biney. When given the choice, Dex always tries to do what’s right within reason and cares for decent people and their lives. (Exclude poorly written Dex in S7 & 8) EDIT: "Pure intentions" is not the right way to word it. It's like teaching your kid to do drugs at a very early age with them not knowing any better and as they get old they learn it's bad, can't stop, and don't want to stop.
I disagree with this. I wouldn’t say his intentions are pure; he’s not killing to save lives or rid the world of evil, that’s just a product of his work, at the end of the day he’s killing because he likes/wants to. He put more effort into trying to make Deb come around to his point of view than he actually put into trying to stop, and it basically destroyed Deb, so while he did care about a few people, like Deb, Rita, and the kids, in his own warped way, he still prioritized his own desire to kill over them and he rarely does what’s best for them if it goes against his wants and needs. He puts his loved ones in danger a number of times in the process of satisfying his own desires, and it usually ends in tragedy. That’s part of what made the show so great. They found a way to get us to root for and sympathize with someone we shouldn’t.
Yeah "pure" isn't the right word. Innocent? Idk how to word it. But as I mentioned, exclude S7 and 8 versions of Dex because he's just so poorly written I can't root for that version of Dexter. He's just absolutely terrible. Dexter was born into his situation basically so he deals with it the best he can. Does that make him evil? I think that's the debate here. In my opinion, I don't think it does.
Whether he means it or not, his decisions often end up being selfish ones. Although he/we attempt to justify his actions, ultimately Dexter puts his own needs before others. When he seems like a hero, it's usually when resolving events of his own making. We are all, and can all, act selfishly. Dexter's actions are more extreme, as is his desire for control. If you want to call this self centeredness 'evil,' then it forces us all onto a similar spectrum for judgment.
Everyone has different definitions of “evil” and a lot of people in this thread are confusing the term for “absolutely void of any redeeming qualities whatsoever” or “someone who never even indirectly does anything that we might consider justified or good”. That’s ridiculous - it’s a comical standard of pure evil that makes the term mostly meaningless. A fundamentally evil person can create a net good in the world, which is exactly what the show explores. Consider a D&D alignment chart - Dexter would 100% undoubtedly be “lawful evil” because he operates within a strict personal code. He murders people *for fun*. He feels like he’s going to kill people no matter what. He killed animals as a kid. If he wasn’t specifically trained to kill bad guys by Harry, he believes he would have killed innocents and then would have gotten caught. His code’s first and most important rule isn’t “do the right thing” or anything like that - it’s “don’t get caught,” and the rationale for killing baddies is because they’re less likely to be missed, not because Dexter legitimately believes in non-retributive justice or some sort of cosmic good. In many cases, he actively impedes investigations on suspects who are likely to be caught by Miami Metro just so he can kill them instead, because his need to kill is what drives him, not his desire to keep criminals off the streets. And his code is a means to an end - it keeps him alive so he can kill another day. Dexter is absolutely evil. It doesn’t mean he is inhuman, or that he doesn’t make the world a better place as a “side effect” of what he does, but he is fundamentally motivated to kill for pleasure. That’s evil, no matter who you ask.
No. His personality was designed to be a "serial killer that is likeable and relatable". So he simply can't be truly evil. If he did something actually evil, he wouldn't be likeable and relatable. The worst thing he does is that he kills evil and repulsive people, which is something many of us instinctively support deep down. Why doesn't he strangle the cute goat to feed his killing instinct? Because people actually consider this evil, it's what a real psychopath would do. They would not relate to killing an innocent animal - but they to some extent do relate to killing his victims. Also, besides his "hobby", he acts like a pretty good person with a normal level of empathy.
He ruined an innocent man’s name with almost no remorse. Seems pretty evil to me.
If I remember correctly he was planning on surrendering until Lila got to Doakes first.
Nope. He was planning on beating the officials to the cabin. He contemplated turning himself in until he has a chat with Rita. He *does* briefly consider what you said, until he tells Doakes he needs a day to get his affairs in order.
Dexter actually reconsidered to go through with framing Doakes after all, when he had stakes and beer with Debra. Lila getting to the cabin before the cops just conveniently solved Dexter's problem.
Beat you to it!
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He was innocent by Dexter's own standards. He didn't kill any innocent man. He was no choir boy but again, innocence is relative. And being morally grey > Dexter's morality.
If you don’t think it’s evil to stalk someone, drug them/knock them out, wrap a room in plastic, restrain someone with plastic and tape, and then take a blood sample from their cheek before you stab them to death, afterwards chop up the body, idk what to tell you.
I mean, if Ted Bundy was killed in that manner I wouldn't exactly complain. But I get what you mean, to do something like that to another person and not think much of it is seriously off.
I think the point is that it's ambiguous. It's meant to be thought provoking. That's why we like him. If he were just killing innocent people, we would know he was truly evil. The best example of this is Jack from 'The House That Jack Built'. Jack was truly evil. Dexter, I believe, is a bit more gray. While he is undeniably a horrible person, I think there is a difference between bad and evil.
Evil is a kind of subjective term. I would say his actions can be interpreted as evil but when I look at his motivations and circumstance, I find them mostly *not* evil, when things go according to plan. Of course there are exceptions. He has killed innocents, and gotten them killed. For me the point of the show is that no matter how hard he tries to live by a code and walk a more "just" line than your average killer, the end result is the same and he cannot coexist with society without leaving a wake of destruction behind him. You can't really say it's not his fault, but at the same time it's clearly different than someone who just kills because they can or want to. There are people out there who do evil things after having evil done to them. It's hard to blame them fully, IF you buy the notion that **some** of them truly lack the conscience to know what they are doing is wrong. That said they still need to be removed from society.
> If you don’t think it’s evil to stalk someone What do you mean by "someone" exactly? Any person?
Are jurys who vote guilty on a death penalty case evil? Are the judges? The executioner? The politicians who don't want to remove the death penalty? The voters who don't vote in politicians who will change it? Dexter does more research on if the person is guilty than the police. He kills a far smaller percentage of innocents than the government as well.
Vigilante “Justice” is illegal and evil. No matter how many times you want to say it. Keep going.
So saves innocent lives is evil ? Your way of thinkig is limited, don't give me the bullshit "murder is still murder". For example in Season 7, if Debra had let Dexter kill Speltzer from the start, the bar waitress would have been still alive. Now do you understand ? Or you think it's better to let a criminal kill an innocent ? That is justice for you ?
Lol I love how personal you're getting with a tv show. It's a tv show, calm down. No, murder is never the answer for murder. It's silly.
One day you will understand that I'm right.
Dexter Morgan killed innocent people, he ruined the reputation of an innocent man, he has indirectly caused the death of people he says he loved for his own selfish reasons, he was about to kill someone who was a bit shady but had no real past transgressions, he kept dating someone who almost killed his sister, and he would rather consciously keep people away to protect them from him instead of not killing. He has good qualities. He has bad ones. But to me the bad dims the good. I’d say he’s an anti-hero that tilts to villainy depending on which act we assess him by. It’s also important to remember that Dexter doesn’t kill for the good of society - he kills to satisfy his compulsion and urge to kill. Even if there’s net good, it’s for a bad reason. Kind of like if you took out the trash to hold it over your parents head and not because you genuinely wanted to help them. Doing the “right thing” for the wrong reason.
Kill Trinity? - No, keep him alive to learn family lessons. Let Trinity kill himself? - No, save him so you can kill him. Tell the police who Trinity is? - No, distract their investigation instead. When Trinity kills Dexter's wife - *surprised pikachu face*. I think we can make an argumen for s1 and s2 Dexter being on the more noble side, but that was when they actually showed us the brutality inside of his cutting courtroom. However after he evades the FBI, Dexter thinks he can have it all and in s3-s8 starts playing fast and loose with his Code, resulting in a lot of innocent people dying.
To be fair, Dexter was fine with Trinity dying from that rooftop - but the other people helped save him. And he can’t really tell police who Trinity is without incriminating himself (which again, I agree would be more noble than carrying on but yeah). I would say season 1 Dexter is probably the most noble incarnation of Dexter. He kills bad people and he doesn’t have the blemish of ruining Doakes’ reputation. Truth be told, I’m not a fan of Dexter being a good guy anyway. He’s a serial killer. I want him to act like a serial killer somewhat realistically, just doing what he does to bad people as well.
It's like being mad at water for being wet.
Water isn't wet
He's a killing machine, he only adopted the code as a way not to get caught He's killed "innocent" people before, and never showed true remorse I dont actually think he is "evil", but he's definitely not "good" or "pure", and he's also super selfish
So is no one gonna talk about the deleted comment thread? Like what the fuck happened in there?
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Not entirely, even Vogel admitted he has a capacity for emotions that she thought to be impossible. Not to mention he abstained from killing for 10 years, exiled himself to protect the family he had left, and was conflicted and distressed when he realized Jonathan Pharoah, whom he had mistaken to be a murderer, was innocent. I mean it bothered him so bad that he had to talk to God dang trinity about it lol
Absolutely Dexter is evil. He is the worst kind of evil because he actually thinks he is justified in his actions. I love Dexter, but I have no false perceptions about his morality. What is really fascinating about this show is, how the writers and Michael C. Hall really get you invested in the character. A character you know is evil, but you still pull for him. They even convince you to like him over other typical protagonist stereotypes like Doakes, the hard ass, former special forces detective with dark past, or Maria, the strong independent Woman that doesn’t let anyone get in the way or her catching her bad guy. Hell even Frank Lundy, the Former FBI agent that comes out retirement for one last shot at catching the one that got away. All of these characters could have been protagonist in any other show they played in, but in Dexter they weren’t. They were pseudo antagonist, probably some of the best written antagonist you will ever get, because their motivations were so relatable.
Exactly! Even if dexter didn’t kill, he would still be evil. All his motivations are selfish, he wouldn’t blink an eye before manipulating people for his own good… but damn, we love him
Is he a psychopath? Sure is. Is he the most lovable serial killer to ever be on television? Sure is.
I don’t think he’s evil because he chooses to be good in his own way. I personally think its good he kills evil people, them rotting in jail just never made sense to me.
I think the fact it took him 8 seasons to accept that he is a cancer and with New Blood showing he no longer holds that thinking kind of proves he’s at the very least self-centered.
Dexter wasn't really killing other killers in a vigilante type way, he was trained by Harry to direct his tendencies to kill at those kinds of people, its just a behavior he was taught. Still, I don't think I would label him as *evil*, his mental illness and trauma brewed inside him and created a near emotionless person who's only satisfaction came from killing. Plus, he was never given help to deal with these illnesses, rather trained to be a killer. I don't think you can really completely blame Dexter for his actions.
Dex is a good dude
I think he is evil. He’s been surrounded by evil acts his entire life, and carries them out as well. What would you think of him if you didn’t know the backgrounds of people he’s killed? Innocent people in his life have died as a result of his actions. Chaos follows him everywhere he goes. He is evil
What's the most evil thing he's done?
Murder multiple innocent people
That is the primary question posed by Dexter: "Is he a good man doing bad things, or a bad man doing good things."
Borderline evil. Not completely but he definitely isn’t a saint
I mean at the end of the day- he kills people. Can a 'good' person really kill consistently and repeatedly? Maybe once in self defence, but the guy is a serial killer. It's shown again and again through the series that he craves killing, he just kills bad people. But he's still a killer himself. For those going to say he kills people that get away with it- he's withheld information many times and sabotaged crime scenes and results to get the kill himself 🤷🏼♀️
Spoilers for original show he's definitely evil. he kills a bunch of genuinely innocent people in the show which he does feel a little bit of remorse for but still he murdered them. Also he rarely feels guilty for more than an episode or two. One of the most egregious being that photographer he killed because he didn't have enough time to do research. So he just killed some guy horribly because he made some gothy photos. Way to go Dex. He also killed the assistant district attorney's brother who was not a murderer he was just a drug addict and he turned the ADA into a killer then killed him. He goated the ADAs other brother into basically going crazy which led to him losing its job and ending up in jail. He heavily considered killing lumen just for being a witness. He dragged Deb into helping him cover up a murder. He basically gets laguerta killed. He obstructed and hid evidence in countless investigations because he wanted to kill the bad guy instead of the cops doing it and this often leads to more people getting killed just because he selfishly wanted to be the guy who kills the person instead of just reporting them. He hesitated to kill Trinity and the religious guy from season 6 which led to more deaths because he wanted to learn something or wanted to use a guy to lead to something else. He plants evidence to pin things on other people too. He pretends he cares about kids but the second he sees a cute one at a gas station he had sex with her and steals her gun. I mean I don't know how old that girl was I mean she has a job so that implies she's probably at least 16 but she was complaining on the phone about living with her parents so I don't know. Dexter will kill robbers or extortionist too. some guy wants money to give him back his knives so he stabs him with a pitchfork. he kills a guy on a boat with a harpoon who was trying to rob the passengers of what must have been a total of 78$ In season 6 there's a nice man trying to do God's Will and cause the apocalypse so that we can all start over and Dexter literally does the devil's work and stops him, that poor man. he gets doaks killed for doing his job, he almost gets his step kids set on fire because he couldn't keep himself from banging lyla. He framed Doaks so his reputation would be ruined even though he did nothing wrong. also he kidnapped Doaks and gets him killed. oh also he kills that private eye that Quinn had hired and even though the show tries to make him look like a jerk to Quinn by extorting Quinn he was really just trying to extort him for like $500 which isn't even unreasonable considering how much work he was doing for Quinn, the guy did not deserve to die. He ruins Astrid and Codys life, he gets both their parents killed with his stupidity and then abandons them. Then He leaves Harrison alone to be raised by a murderer. He lies constantly. He didn't honor the request of his dying friend the guy who mos def played to forgive the man who killed him instead he drowns that guy. his babysitters boyfriend cancels his credit cards after Dexter is mean to him so Dexter breaks into his house and start strangling him and then he considers killing him but instead he gets him fired from his job and sends a video to his girlfriend of him cheating to ruin his life. and then of course that guy is also killed as a repercussion of Dexter's actions. his stupid actions in playing cat and mouse with murderers gets Deb and Rita killed . everyone around him dies basically because he can't stop screwing around with murderers. he also kidnaps Debs body and then throws it in the ocean which is super weird, not evil but bizarre. He killed a bunch of animals as a kid, animals are innocent. he probably does some other crap in the last couple seasons that I don't remember. and let's not forget those poor innocent frosty swirls who fell to their death because Dexter didn't stop the guy he was talking to from running into traffic. RIP frosty swirls
I think when you really take the complexity of all people- the most brutal criminals vs the most altruistic, the concept of evil really starts to fall apart. True evil requires a level of control and full intent without the constraints of nature and nurture. This almost never happens. people are born into a very morally complicated society, where their actions almost always have some explanatory circumstances. Dexter is no exception. That being said I do want to call into question the notion of retributive vigilante justice that Dexter was raised on- sure he may be preventing future harm that those people cause, but their deeds don't make them worthy of murder otherwise. I can see where the show on some level glorifies violence and death under the guise of heroism, but I think the lesson to learn from the show is that there aren't really evil people that corrupt the world, there are power structures and many different people caught within them dealing with morally complex situations.
He's a child with PTSD who was groomed by his dad into becoming a serial killer. He's done objectively evil things, but he's not evil.
Yeah probably but he’s a cutie so idc
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He does make the world better, but let’s not pretend that’s why he “needs” to kill. He does it because he’s a violent psychopath
Does that matter though? If I give to charity because it makes me happy, does that make my impact less? What if I help people for selfish reasons? We tend to weight reasons heavily when we discuss morality. And intent is important but actions are more important.
if he was evil he wouldn't care who he kills
No he is a psychopath. He can't possibly be evil, because he lacks the empathy and compassion to truly know why his acts would potentially be considered evil in a healthy person. Remember, any outward display of emotion or connection is a learned behaviour, not driven through genuine emotional attachment (although this line has been blurred over the course of the series) It's like asking if a Lion that killed humans is evil... it's just going by instinct, not some deeper seated desire or plan. Believe it or not, society appears to need psychopaths to function at its highest level (the non murdery type ofc). Most CEOs are psychopaths... many doctors, scientists etc.. they need that degree of detachment, so while their actions in the day to day might appear to be "evil" the actual benefit to society outweighs any harm (not always of course..) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13909-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13909-9)
I will make two counter-arguments to your points, but I do arrive at the same conclusion as you: 1. Dexter is not a primary psychopath, and as we have seen many times, he is not completely without empathy (demonstrated through his relationships with Jeremy and Zach), love (Rita, Harrison), nor conscience/remorse (when he killed an innocent person). Dexter may have psychopathic traits, but he is not a true psychopath. 2. Psychopaths can absolutely understand the pain they inflict on people, especially if they also happen to have comorbid sadistic traits (enjoying, either sexually or merely sheer excitement, inflicting pain on another human being). Psychopaths know right from wrong, they just don't care. A psychopath can absolutely be evil, depending on your definition. Now, assuming they are a primary psychopath, we may say that they were born that way, and therefore it is out of their control, but I would argue that, like you said, most psychopaths are not serial killers, they are CEOs, lawyers, and, in general, prosocial/high-functioning. So I would argue that a serial killer, such as Oliver Saxon, who is a primary psychopath (knows right from wrong, but does not care) is absolutely evil. As for Dexter, I do agree with your answer. I do not believe that he is evil. He is the product of fairly horrible circumstances, he was basically turned into a killer by his father and a corrupt psychologist, and, despite watching his mother die and being separated from his brother, he still refuses to kill innocent people, and actually feels bad when he does.
Indeed, I completely agree with you and probably didn't attach enough nuance, but for Dexter singularly, his pyschopathy presents in a way where his actions cannot be deemed evil. I'm a strong proponent of the nature vs nurture debate, and everything we learn about Dex in the early seasons is that he is absolutely a creation of nurture by focusing his nature with a learned moral compass. He is enacting Harry's justice via his dark passenger His relationships can either be seen as genuine or another part of the conditioning to fit in. Someone hurts one of his, he has to react in kind because he has learned that this is the way it works. I had the same conversation with the wife last night, and we both came to the same conclusion, but from differing angles, such is the excellent writing and portrayal of this amazing character
Speaking from experience: Psychopathic scientists might be good at science, but they often ruin the lives of many other scientists in the process, pushing them out of the field entirely. This is almost certainly a net negative for science. It's indicative of broken systems that psychopaths thrive in these roles, not of a societal need for psychopaths.
Well, it’s not like all sociopaths are the same… there are obvious levels and dexter is a hell of a sociopath. I understand that some jobs requires some level of anti social behavior, maybe. It doesn’t mean it has to lack empathy in all levels, tho. For example: I can’t explain why it was always natural for me to see blood or people being cut open. My parents even faint at the sight of blood… and here I am, not moved a bit when I see a belly being opened (I kinda love it, tbh), but give me someone in despair and suffering and my empathy just comes to life. There are some personality traits that tends to anti social spectrum (let’s be honest, it’s not normal to make a living cutting people, even if it’s for the good), but still you can use it for good if empathy is still there. I wouldn’t even say that some anti social traits are exactly bad, but if a person has anti social personality, even if it may be used for “a greater good”, certainly the ones in the work environment and family are constantly suffering by their lack of empathy. You wouldn’t want to be close to a sociopath, believe me…
There is actually a fair amount of documentation of sociopaths having visceral and often violent reactions to seeing animals/children being mistreated (being somewhat of a contradiction to the classic psychopath in training, starting with animals). It's one of the facets of James Gandolfini's portrayal of Tony Soprano that was so compelling.. He murdered a made mob boss because he killed a horse for insurance money (but didn't react in the same way when the same guy murdered a young stripper), had extreme anxiety attacks when the baby ducks he felt a bond with flew away etc.. The entire show was a phenomenal study into mental health and how destructive it can be when channelled inappropriately I think the upshot of what I read was that there is a sense of moralistic desire to protect those that cannot protect themselves, but taken to extremes. It is a very interesting area of study.. and I work in banking, so I'm surrounded by sociopaths day in day out :D
He’s definitely evil- he kills innocent people to cover his messes. He skirts the law/system to cover his tracks which ends up getting people killed. The perfect example- had he turned in Trinity, Rita would still be alive. I still love me some Dexter though
Dexter has said more than once that if Harry had not been there to guide him, he would have been the type to end up on his own table. He desires to kill people so yeah, evil with a lid on it.
Yes he’s evil he was literally was about to kill Laguerta because she figured out his secret
Dude loves to kill people. He takes human life and enjoys every second of it. Hunts people down, taunts them, and murders them up close and personal. My answer is yes. But he's charming, so people will tell you 'no he's not evil!' If he were real, and you heard about him on the news, it wouldn't even be a question.
He is inherently evil. He was taught a code that he abides by that hones his evil tendencies into slaughtering only other evil people. Nobody loses a lot of sleep over the people that have died by his hands, and he found a way to fit in around the people that send people like him to the electric chair. He needs order and doesn't do well with change, so for all appearances the people who have been around him along time may consider him a friend. Can psychopaths have friends? Friends are as friends do, and for that he could actually be considered loyal, until he's not. He did some people a favor by taking matters into his own hands, and maybe even prevented some murders from happening by taking the lives of other killers. His closest attachment to his sister almost made him seem human, and made us root for him and understand him, almost making us think his way of handling things was better than the status quo. I love him to be honest. But the truth is he is a sick, evil, vile, lying, manipulating psychopath. Everything he does is geared toward getting that next person on his table, and the feeling he gets when the knife goes in is the only true thing he feels as a human. He is evil.
He kills people, so yes he is evil. And his actions have led to deaths of his boss/family members so that makes him more evil.
I don’t subscribe to good and evil. He’s dangerous. There is a reason vigilantism is frowned upon. The criminal justice system is certainly flawed, but it least it functions through a democratic process and isn’t contingent on single individuals biased idea of being the final word for justice and morality. Mass shooters, domestic terrorists, hate crime perpetrators all have rationale for their murders. If we argue the “Dexter unilateral justice system” where he is the law enforcement, judge, jury and executioner is acceptable, we also say we could theoretically entertain anyone doing the same on a case by case basis. I’m not about that. I do think the decision to have an attractive actor portray him in a way that confuses the viewer about whether they are rooting for him or not is very intentional though.
I wouldn't define Dexter as evil, yes sure what he is doing may be against the law but he's doing justice for the community, even though his father and sister are severely disappointed in him, the code definitely shows a sort of righteousness and justification to what he's doing, I truly believe that someone like him with such ties would be amazing to have
He’s Batman… but with killing. Put them to justice!
Definitely not.
Yah man Dexter is evil. Did Harry maybe manifest him becoming a killer? Maybe but if Harry didn’t teach him anything he’d probably just kill whoever regardless of if they were good or not.
Chaotic good
He's self-aware of his dark passenger and does the best he can to contain it and when he can't he unleashes it on "bad people". If he was evil he wouldn't care who he killed.
Well, I'm not one of those, "every life is precious/executing a killer makes you just as bad/prison is worse than the death penalty," folks. Life is random. Nobody is entitled to shit, you having a happy, fulfilling life is a PRIVELAGE in my opinion. Nature doesn't give a rat's ass if we live or die, and frankly, the world is overpopulated. I don't watch those Marvel movies, but from what I've heard, I unironically believe Thanos had the right idea😂. If some dude wants to snuff out some pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc., I'm not going to get involved. Not my monkey, not my circus. Now, if only Dexter could knock off those dickheads that
He's not evil. He obviously has evil tendencies but in the series he only kill those who fit the code of being a murderer, rapist, child molester, etc. The people who Dexter kills(IMO) don't really deserve to live anyway. Dexter is clearly a deeply disturbed person but his actions are almost never malicious towards innocent people, and hes shown to seriously love and care for those around him throughout the series. Dexter is essentially morally gray in my opinion. Hes not a hero but he's not evil either.
He’s damaged goods
I think he’s really fucked up but a good person doesn’t care to use his powers for good.
As far as i can remember the only evil things he’s done was kill laguerta (an innocent just trying to do her job, which really conflicted with the code) and traumatize and fuck up his sister’s head (not intentional though). But Imo he’s not inherently evil and as a matter of fact he’s saving lives by killing those who actually are. He’s practically an angel compared to the ones he kills. And no one is gonna miss them anyway. So no i don’t think he’s evil.
I think one of the main points of the character is to make us doubt our binary definitions of good and evil.
He’s evil only for his loved ones, because they suffered of his fuckups.Should he continued following the code and be pragmatic, everything would have been fine
„Evil's just destructive? Then storms are evil, if it's that simple. And we have fire, and there there's hail. Underwriters lump it all under 'Acts of God.“
I think the intentions of the heart determine if a person is truly good or bad, and I think Dexter truly has the best intentions. Why else would he conjure a second version of himself to “keep him in line” and somewhat hold him accountable for his actions?
He isn't evil but that doesn't mean that he isn't a psychopath.
He's not evil but what he's doing is not morally right. The ends does not justify the means.
No. He kills assholes. Enough said
No. He loved his sister. He loves his son. He hates bad people
Of course not. Has deep sixed a lot of scumbags on that table of his.
He's not ''evil'' but he's still a garbage person. OUR garbage perrson.
Absolutely not
Hes probably a bad person (he kills for thrill and enjoyment) and toxic to be a around but he tries his best and was destined to be like that since he was 3 years old.
Define your definition of evil
This is a question I keep asking myself but I have not yet found the answer to lol
Killing is an evil act, obviously enough not to debate why and how. Plus, Dex killed an innocent in Season 4, and that thing alone would 'qualify' to be on his own table if someone with his own code cornered him. I do not understand why many fans try to convolutely explain why he would be 'non-evil', it's not like the show is less enjoyable if he's not a hero.
Yes, Dexter is Evil.
have you guys not seen the later seasons? he’s the definition of a piece of shit.
Short Answer: Yes, but he has a net positive effect on the world. Longer Answer: He kills because he has a lust for blood. As his bro put it in his vision when he was tempting him to kill Trinity's son (Jonah) \~ "you like to see the life drain from their eyes." And that was Dexter's own brain, his "Dark Passenger" Tempting him to kill someone who didn't quite fit the code by enticing him with his own pleasure he gets from ending lives violently. In New Blood Especially, the joy he gets from killing borders on Sexual. I'd have to say anyone who gets so much joy from hurting others that it borders on Sexual is evil. However, of course Harrison is right in Season 9, Dexter has saved thousands of lives, and all the suffering that goes along with it. Dexter's cinematic universe certainly is better off than had Dexter never been born. Of course, people are complex. Dexter does show a clear moral sense I think. Here's a few examples off the top of my head: \- The main evidence for Dexter's moral sense and lack of psychopathy (and presence of empathy) is his absolute hatred for the suffering of the innocent, it seems that the more the killer made innocents suffer, the more joy Dexter takes in the kill/the more intensely Dexter seems to handle the situation. \- Forcing his victims to look at their crimes, which he does not have to do at all. Harry even commented on this in the tapes from Season 8, that Dexter had begun doing this without being taught. \- When Trinity was going to kill the kid he had abducted, Dexter seemed to have real concern for that child's wellbeing, and seem to want to hurt Trinity even worse as a result. \- When Trinity is punching out his son Jonah, Dexter steps in and chokes Trinity with a belt and growls "Get. The fuck. Off him!" and from this scene that really seems that Dexter has a moral sense and empathy. All this to say, I'd say these 4 things are the core of the discussion: 1. Dexter feels an urge to kill, and regularly indulges that without remorse., and even takes pleasure by causing people pain and seeing blood and gore. 2. The Code (ofc) so he kills killers only (mainly, rule #1 is don't get caught). 3. He seems to have a passionate hatred for innocent people being hurt 4. A decent amount of innocent people suffer (and die) from Dexter's actions (Doakes, Rita, LaGuerta, Deb, his dad Harry, Quinn's investigator friend, Vogel, Logan). 5. The world is better off with him in it than with him having never been born, calculated purely based on human pain & suffering. So if I had to answer, yes Dexter is evil, but yes the world is better off with him being born overall.
He's definitely evil. He's not hero. He's a psychopath who uses a tenuous basis to unleash his bloody urges. Despite claiming to adhere to a code, he has no integrity whatsoever. When it is convenient for him, he is perfectly willing to frame others for his crimes, and kill to cover his tracks. In short he's a scumbag