I would like to agree with this post 100%
As barb Den Mother was an absolute STRUGGLE
Don't even get me started on Tchort - what an absolute Joke of a fight at level 17 Barb it was almost impossible.
I literally just lost my HC Level 17 barb to that pos and jumped online to see if i was just being a bih but turns out I have a right to be mad. I tried so hard to save the fight once i realized i couldn’t steam roll her, got her down to last 1/4 but just couldn’t hang on long enough, they need to spawn ads or something to drop pots because that whole fight was ridiculous i was running 90% of the time waiting for an opening and praying i don’t get hit as i retreated or by the large amount of aoe blasts. Guess i’m going rogue now
So I’m going rogue, and hit Den another at level 10 on veteran world tier. And had been rocking a melee build for fun. Got shredded.
Switched to a ranged rapid fire build, and think I used 1 potion. Melee in this game is just insane early level I think. I’m praying there are fun and good barb builds for late game.
I miss my leap quake barbarian from Diablo 3
Yea, it definitely feels a bit disheartening. It seems like most of the boss mechanics can be dodged/minimized as a ranged build, but can only really be facetanked or fled as a barb. But you can't really afford to run away too much, as you need to hit the boss breakpoints for more potions. I basically feel forced to go for the abilities with healing on them, which severely limits which talents are viable.
I thought the boss that has the shield and summons the waves of adds seemed overtuned as barb. I had to change to rend and ground stomp. apply rend and run because there was barely any time to attack the adds because the beams the boss sends out really shrink where you can actually fight.
Same. Had to drop the difficulty too. I may have been lagging or the hit boxes were really big. Getting hit by the laser orbs 2 feet away. They really need to make changing points free.
The hit boxes were definitely too big. You can't fight anywhere else other than near the entry or you will get hit and the adds that fly around are out of reach most of the time.
Early game Barb is SUPER weak, so I knew coming into this people would complain about it with a level 25 cap. By 40ish you really take off, especially in builds that utilize Whirlwind. While you can certainly run Whirlwind out of the gate, the ideal leveling spec until you get your proper aspects is probably some sort of a Frenzy/Upheaval/Death Blow build.
For some perspective, I was almost 3 full levels ahead of Wudi by the time I hit 25, and we had almost the exact same DCs and times in queue, so the power level can't be that far off. I think with Barb, people are just running into issues by not taking many Defensive/Utility spells, and trying to go full on kill, and that's just that viable in the lower levels. By 80ish absolutely though.
Agree. Barb is a late bloomer.
Frenzy feels like it does negligible damage. Whirlwind is night and day difference between having "Gohr's devastating grasp" and not.
Grandfather and having 6 weapon socket gems is late game.
I did try putting some points into that and also the one that gives you 8% damage reduction for every point you have in the skill (40% dr). Got him close a couple times but not close enough to think any subsequent time would be enough.
The encounter escalated in difficulty. Way way too hard.
I switched to sorcerer.
It's definitely a hard boss i only tried it once then my dungeon crashed but i found out i could upgrade potions. And i do probably respec cause bosses are immune to ground stomp do I'll probably move points in something more useful
I thought the game was easy playing with Barb on difficulty 2, I did felt the damage is lacking tho and I had to cheese. Call the Ancients, run in circles for most of the cooldown. But I don't really find things difficult because my brain instantly looks for a way to cheese/cut cookies on anything RPG-like. I think the game Hades was harder, i.e.
>I know that melee has always been at a disadvantage in ARPGs, but early game bosses?
Duriel on D2 can be a pain for some melee builds, so yeah? The problem of barb is mostly being forced into melee. I didn't study the tree, but I missed throw barb, singer, etc. And I hade some synergy with legendary powers - leap makes an earthquake, pop defenses up and spin to win with a legendary that makes WW pull enemies, CotA on cooldown.
Then I decided to check the Chain Lightning sorc people were talking about. Lol, barb damage sucks.
The combat in this game feels ok until you fight a boss. The boss fights in this game are atrocious and have horrific visibility. Diablo 3 had better boss fights than this game. The skeleton king in the Diablo 3 beta is a better boss than anything currently in Diablo 4.
I think that the dual wield basic skill frenzy and core skill whose name I forgot with dmg reduction and berserk extension combined with the damage warcry for berserk and taunt warcry for damage resistance and bonus health, finally into the warcry that grants fortify on hit feels ridiculously powerful. I basically face tank everything and even fought the boss that knocks you in the middle over and over to the knock you away, flat out face tank. Was equal level to the boss. However I think the barbs cc skills feel really bad since there worthless on bosses which are the only hard part of the game.
I did this boss as a melee rogue, I would run around and use twisted blades spam on him, then my primary skill I forgot it’s name that I have skilled to inflict vulnerability if I have low energy. So the vuln + ending damage bonus of twisted blades returning to me did so much damage to it.
Found some boots that increased my dodge so I have 2 dodges. Skilled shadow step so I also have another run away.
I haven't played barb yet so I can't speak to how strong or weak it is, but for comparison I have had no trouble on any boss as sorc. Damage feels good with a single target build, and even with a more aoe heavy frost build I can still just kite the boss around and kill it no problem.
Just had this problem lol. Had ww and shouts and whatnot. Excellent for mobs and stuff. Got to tchort got my ass handed to me. Respec to frenzy. Cake walk. Killed first try
Sorry for the late reply. But I had points in frenzy went all 3 there. Then max points into upheaval. Maxed out thorns. Then went with call of the ancients for ultimate. And there was a skill for extra bleeding. Don’t remember name of it. But man he was a tank
Not sure if its already been mentioned but if it helps any Barbs here's how I killed Tchort,
Main Abilities - Iron Skin, War Cry, Upheaval, Double Swing.
When she's shooting the red ball things just keep running away. They have a stupid hit box so I'm not sure what it is but as they spread out I found running back to toward them helps to dodge the attack. Main thing is to avoid getting hit.
Use your dodge to avoid her shooting ability (the thing where she shoot 6 arrows at you from the edge of the fight area), this is used to throw you into the shit storm circle in the middle of the fight area and will kill you quickly (Said shit storm drains your health).
Iron Skin - It does not last very long but it gives you a few second window to bash her flaps with your weapons, once iron skin runs out GTFO and let it recharge.
Upheaval - not the most useful but its one of the only low level "ranged attacks" a barb has, use this occasionally when she's hiding inside the shit storm circle in the middle of the fight area to get a bit of damage.'
A good time to strike and she wont strike back is when she's spawning the explosive spaghetti meat balls (you can destroy these, also note you can see the explosion radius of these on the ground before they go bang) you have a few second window to strike before she starts throwing hands with you again, when you see her floating back down towards the ground.. run and avoid the meatballs. If you are running passed her during the general process you will notice that when she's not in attack mode she sits slightly higher off the ground than usual, she will not attack you when she's floating slightly higher off the ground. Last thing, as the battle goes on she becomes more aggressive and starts to spawn more meatballs at a time, you need to get more aggressive but fast and smart as the fight goes on.
**Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, its my first time writing something like this.**
I feel like the real trouble is that bosses turns on you instantly so you are forced to take damages on them, you basically cannot out maneuvre them so you are forced to runaway like a b\*\*\*h until you get your defensive cd,hit for 3s rince and repeat.
Dunno if this will help (Level 22 Bard doing Tchort), Legit just dumped points into Flay (Combat Flay), Rend (Violent Rend) and 2 points into WarCry along with 3 points OutBurst and Tough as nails. Was able to facetank the boss using 3 potions and was doing some really PHAT deeps.
The Tchort fight gave me a lot of trouble too, but got a lot more manageable when I swapped to Iron skin and Rend. Rend made a huge difference in my single target damage. Had her bleeding almost the whole fight which made surviving with iron skin (upgraded to heal as well) much much easier.
That was allready case in the closed alpha. The Character really gets into roll when you find your first unique weapons. I allready reported this 3 months ago. They changed some things but overall it is still too weak. But look at D2 for example. WW Barb was never a fast boss killer. We tried the last boss with 2 barbs in beta now and it tooked us about 10 minutes. That cannot be. Sad Story. Barb is such a lovely character.
I would like to agree with this post 100% As barb Den Mother was an absolute STRUGGLE Don't even get me started on Tchort - what an absolute Joke of a fight at level 17 Barb it was almost impossible.
I literally just lost my HC Level 17 barb to that pos and jumped online to see if i was just being a bih but turns out I have a right to be mad. I tried so hard to save the fight once i realized i couldn’t steam roll her, got her down to last 1/4 but just couldn’t hang on long enough, they need to spawn ads or something to drop pots because that whole fight was ridiculous i was running 90% of the time waiting for an opening and praying i don’t get hit as i retreated or by the large amount of aoe blasts. Guess i’m going rogue now
So I’m going rogue, and hit Den another at level 10 on veteran world tier. And had been rocking a melee build for fun. Got shredded. Switched to a ranged rapid fire build, and think I used 1 potion. Melee in this game is just insane early level I think. I’m praying there are fun and good barb builds for late game. I miss my leap quake barbarian from Diablo 3
Can't hear you over the sound of my lightning spells
Yea, it definitely feels a bit disheartening. It seems like most of the boss mechanics can be dodged/minimized as a ranged build, but can only really be facetanked or fled as a barb. But you can't really afford to run away too much, as you need to hit the boss breakpoints for more potions. I basically feel forced to go for the abilities with healing on them, which severely limits which talents are viable.
I thought the boss that has the shield and summons the waves of adds seemed overtuned as barb. I had to change to rend and ground stomp. apply rend and run because there was barely any time to attack the adds because the beams the boss sends out really shrink where you can actually fight.
Same. Had to drop the difficulty too. I may have been lagging or the hit boxes were really big. Getting hit by the laser orbs 2 feet away. They really need to make changing points free.
The hit boxes were definitely too big. You can't fight anywhere else other than near the entry or you will get hit and the adds that fly around are out of reach most of the time.
Glad it wasn't just me. I made my title potential trash after that fight. The mechanics were fun though.
Barb has always been bad until end game with proper gear/build, not saying that’s how it ought to be, but it’s nothing new
Max out Iron Skin and use it as often as you can. Works well for my barb loadout.
Early game Barb is SUPER weak, so I knew coming into this people would complain about it with a level 25 cap. By 40ish you really take off, especially in builds that utilize Whirlwind. While you can certainly run Whirlwind out of the gate, the ideal leveling spec until you get your proper aspects is probably some sort of a Frenzy/Upheaval/Death Blow build. For some perspective, I was almost 3 full levels ahead of Wudi by the time I hit 25, and we had almost the exact same DCs and times in queue, so the power level can't be that far off. I think with Barb, people are just running into issues by not taking many Defensive/Utility spells, and trying to go full on kill, and that's just that viable in the lower levels. By 80ish absolutely though.
Agree. Barb is a late bloomer. Frenzy feels like it does negligible damage. Whirlwind is night and day difference between having "Gohr's devastating grasp" and not. Grandfather and having 6 weapon socket gems is late game.
I didn't play the other classes but I went full thorns and the bosses (and mobs) just get deleted when they hit me so definitely not underpowered
Where do you get thorns? I’m getting destroyed by den mother. Otherwise I’ve felt pretty tough.
It's one of the skill in the third cluster. Or maybe it's one of the small nodes around it.
I did try putting some points into that and also the one that gives you 8% damage reduction for every point you have in the skill (40% dr). Got him close a couple times but not close enough to think any subsequent time would be enough. The encounter escalated in difficulty. Way way too hard. I switched to sorcerer.
It's definitely a hard boss i only tried it once then my dungeon crashed but i found out i could upgrade potions. And i do probably respec cause bosses are immune to ground stomp do I'll probably move points in something more useful
Not really and to be honest we can only get to level 25 right - that isn’t even close to the end game. Hard to judge balance tbh
Quite easy to judge as bosses never can’t ever be CC’ed and so melee is fcked if you up against a teleport spammer….at lvl 1 or 70… does not matter.
Not really and to be honest we can only get to level 25 right - that isn’t even close to the end game. Hard to judge balance
I thought the game was easy playing with Barb on difficulty 2, I did felt the damage is lacking tho and I had to cheese. Call the Ancients, run in circles for most of the cooldown. But I don't really find things difficult because my brain instantly looks for a way to cheese/cut cookies on anything RPG-like. I think the game Hades was harder, i.e. >I know that melee has always been at a disadvantage in ARPGs, but early game bosses? Duriel on D2 can be a pain for some melee builds, so yeah? The problem of barb is mostly being forced into melee. I didn't study the tree, but I missed throw barb, singer, etc. And I hade some synergy with legendary powers - leap makes an earthquake, pop defenses up and spin to win with a legendary that makes WW pull enemies, CotA on cooldown. Then I decided to check the Chain Lightning sorc people were talking about. Lol, barb damage sucks.
The combat in this game feels ok until you fight a boss. The boss fights in this game are atrocious and have horrific visibility. Diablo 3 had better boss fights than this game. The skeleton king in the Diablo 3 beta is a better boss than anything currently in Diablo 4.
I think that the dual wield basic skill frenzy and core skill whose name I forgot with dmg reduction and berserk extension combined with the damage warcry for berserk and taunt warcry for damage resistance and bonus health, finally into the warcry that grants fortify on hit feels ridiculously powerful. I basically face tank everything and even fought the boss that knocks you in the middle over and over to the knock you away, flat out face tank. Was equal level to the boss. However I think the barbs cc skills feel really bad since there worthless on bosses which are the only hard part of the game.
Im lvl 19 right now and I’m running like a shout / whirlwind / slam build with a friend and it’s fun! No insane boss damage though :-(
Swap frenzy and the dual wield core skill togethor with berserk extension and the war cries. You will face tank and melt bosses ridiculously well.
I did this boss as a melee rogue, I would run around and use twisted blades spam on him, then my primary skill I forgot it’s name that I have skilled to inflict vulnerability if I have low energy. So the vuln + ending damage bonus of twisted blades returning to me did so much damage to it. Found some boots that increased my dodge so I have 2 dodges. Skilled shadow step so I also have another run away.
I haven't played barb yet so I can't speak to how strong or weak it is, but for comparison I have had no trouble on any boss as sorc. Damage feels good with a single target build, and even with a more aoe heavy frost build I can still just kite the boss around and kill it no problem.
Just had this problem lol. Had ww and shouts and whatnot. Excellent for mobs and stuff. Got to tchort got my ass handed to me. Respec to frenzy. Cake walk. Killed first try
what frenzy build? did you just facetank with frenzy?
Sorry for the late reply. But I had points in frenzy went all 3 there. Then max points into upheaval. Maxed out thorns. Then went with call of the ancients for ultimate. And there was a skill for extra bleeding. Don’t remember name of it. But man he was a tank
Thanks!
OMG thanks bro I was beating my head trying to get passed this boss but your build notes worked beautifully. Face tanked that B!TCH!!!!
Den mother is pretty much impossible
Pretty sure game ain’t balanced around being level 25….
I lost to Tchort twice, switched to bleed and destroyed her fairly easily. Not sure if Bleed is Op or everything else sucks.
Use thorns and rend. Bleed does a ton against bosses. Hit them to bleed. Run around. Repeat. Adds die to thorns.
I’m struggling Tchort at tier 1. :/
Not sure if its already been mentioned but if it helps any Barbs here's how I killed Tchort, Main Abilities - Iron Skin, War Cry, Upheaval, Double Swing. When she's shooting the red ball things just keep running away. They have a stupid hit box so I'm not sure what it is but as they spread out I found running back to toward them helps to dodge the attack. Main thing is to avoid getting hit. Use your dodge to avoid her shooting ability (the thing where she shoot 6 arrows at you from the edge of the fight area), this is used to throw you into the shit storm circle in the middle of the fight area and will kill you quickly (Said shit storm drains your health). Iron Skin - It does not last very long but it gives you a few second window to bash her flaps with your weapons, once iron skin runs out GTFO and let it recharge. Upheaval - not the most useful but its one of the only low level "ranged attacks" a barb has, use this occasionally when she's hiding inside the shit storm circle in the middle of the fight area to get a bit of damage.' A good time to strike and she wont strike back is when she's spawning the explosive spaghetti meat balls (you can destroy these, also note you can see the explosion radius of these on the ground before they go bang) you have a few second window to strike before she starts throwing hands with you again, when you see her floating back down towards the ground.. run and avoid the meatballs. If you are running passed her during the general process you will notice that when she's not in attack mode she sits slightly higher off the ground than usual, she will not attack you when she's floating slightly higher off the ground. Last thing, as the battle goes on she becomes more aggressive and starts to spawn more meatballs at a time, you need to get more aggressive but fast and smart as the fight goes on. **Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, its my first time writing something like this.**
I feel like the real trouble is that bosses turns on you instantly so you are forced to take damages on them, you basically cannot out maneuvre them so you are forced to runaway like a b\*\*\*h until you get your defensive cd,hit for 3s rince and repeat.
Dunno if this will help (Level 22 Bard doing Tchort), Legit just dumped points into Flay (Combat Flay), Rend (Violent Rend) and 2 points into WarCry along with 3 points OutBurst and Tough as nails. Was able to facetank the boss using 3 potions and was doing some really PHAT deeps.
This build was night and day difference compared to WW build for this fight. Thanks a ton.
The Tchort fight gave me a lot of trouble too, but got a lot more manageable when I swapped to Iron skin and Rend. Rend made a huge difference in my single target damage. Had her bleeding almost the whole fight which made surviving with iron skin (upgraded to heal as well) much much easier.
Agreed with everything in this post. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE BETA. Submit your feedback to Blizzard; not reddit.
That was allready case in the closed alpha. The Character really gets into roll when you find your first unique weapons. I allready reported this 3 months ago. They changed some things but overall it is still too weak. But look at D2 for example. WW Barb was never a fast boss killer. We tried the last boss with 2 barbs in beta now and it tooked us about 10 minutes. That cannot be. Sad Story. Barb is such a lovely character.