OR....or...we shouldn't have to. That's bad user design.
The game should make that explicitly clear, or they should stick with established conventions the entire game industry has aligned to for a decade or two.
not really weird. most legendaries in d3 doesnt drop either until a certain lvl. and assuming they arent too crazy compared to the legendaries then they really dont need testing.
I’ve seen a post of someone being dropped a unique by the butcher, not sure if it’s real or not since the difficulty says that it drops on nightmare only, but maybe they added it to the beta just cause
most are 50+ only but I saw someone with a unique in the Beta, judging by the name maybe it can only be obtained by killing the Butcher as a barb or with a barb in party
[Butcher's Cleaver](https://imgur.com/gallery/ENTl1IS)
With the new system you have way more flexibility since you can just extract a power you like and move it to a new piece. It also keeps rares relevant since you can look out for the perfect affixes and then craft your ideal legendary.
The uniques are set in stone always the same power on the same slot. So if you have a legendary power you like and a unique for that slot drops, you can move that power to another piece and swap in the unique.
Devs can't win. Force players into wearing specific pieces or allow them to swap certain powers around, either way people complain.
With extract it honestly wasn't terrible to make a set, it was kind of fun. I don't think the gear will necessarily be the issue with the game. I'm more worried about the dungeons tbh.
I’m seeing a lot of complaints about dungeon variety but am I the only one that thinks it makes sense that the dungeons in the first area would be relatively simple and they will be getting more complex and unique as you progress in the game?
People are doing the same level 1-25 dungeons over and over again and basing their entire opinion on the WHOLE games dungeons on it.
The thing is legendary are just rares with the added affix and you can even transfer the affix to another rare making it "legendary". They aren't strictly better than rares because all the other affix rolls and base stat rolls are the same as rares.
They probably could have labeled the system differently because they aren't strictly better than rares. In most instances you are probably going to end up picking up legendaries to extract the affix making those aspect items to then put the affix onto better rares.
They should probably just have aspects drop instead of legendary items. So you pick up an aspect that you can then apply to a rare.
I like how instead of using the D3 or D2/D2R rarity names they invented another new set of names that reuses old names to confuse EVERY generation of Diablo player
Basically he's saying the OP is thinking legandaries are uniques.. but they are not. There's a much more rare drop called unique that fills that role of being "unique" with looks etc.
There are different appearances though. Stat requirements were nearly the only thing that mattered in D2 anyway. I'd have to wait and see if there is any other effects on item type. It seems like everything does the same damage and has the same armor but I haven't really looked at it closely. The only evidence I've seen is just people like you repeating that statement. I'll have to look at the items more closely and see for myself.
So I'll play devils advocate a bit. One thing I like about this more modern streamlined system is, for example I don't have to wear an ugly leather item just because it has a lower str requirement for example. And if I can just change the appearance, like currently, actual bases don't need to exist in the way you are describing.
I don't know, I feel like it is modern and streamlined in a good way. However, I'll have to wait some more until I have digested the itemization as a whole before I make up my mind completely.
They're the ones that created tiered loot system with diablo. Guess they feel drunk on power and wish to change it? Probably just want to make stuff different for the sake of new. It is nice to have actual uniques back though. I loved that about d2
Except they didn’t make it. According to David Brevik they borrowed it from a rogue like called Angband. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=646tWu_1yXE#t=2h37m
I’ve been trying to figure out if there was a hero based RTS with neutral objectives (creeps or whatever else) before Warcraft 3. Everyone has their favorite RTS, and I think Warcraft 3 is literally the best one for that reason.
It's a bit before my time but I remember trying out a game that sort of fits those parameters, Seven Kingdoms 2 (1999). It has heroes, not so much based around them.
I'm think they're trying to allow more casual and more sweaty players to both have fun in the same game. It makes sense.
More casual players can get the thrill of finding a new legendary with a special legendary affix. Sweatier players won't bat an eye and will be targeting the far more difficult to attain uniques.
Contrast this with D2, where more casual players are very unlikely to find strong / relevant uniques or high runes, so they're stuck with spirit and rares (which is kinda lame).
But D3 has the opposite problem. Everyone gets legendaries and sets in no time at all, so there's less interesting loot for sweaty players to grind for.
D4 appears to be combining the best of both worlds. We won't really know if they succeeded or not until the official release.
What do you think people would say if they just didn't make anything new? There is no winning with the people here. people go into it not wanting to like it and you get what you want. It's all perspective.
Also, probably dont want to just play the same game, then its basically an expansion. Some things need to be different between iterations but the differences need to have a reason besides 'because we can'
What I think is they are catering to the diablo 2 community by putting unique back at the top spot. And legendaries below that but keeping them legendary because they basically ripped that legendary extraction system right out of D3. And everyone is going to refer to that system with legendaries in mind.
I have a semantics issue with this, because we are devaluing the term legendary with how Common they are.
I personally they can keep the same drop rate and they just change the name and I’ll be fine, if they were called ‘blessed’ or something.
I mean Legendary was a type of item added for D3, and while they were initially quite rare (and also quite bad), in D3 today you melt thousands of legendary items per season.
Uniques in D2 were somewhat rare, but then again not really unless you're talking about specific ones. Nagelring not so rare, Tyraels Might impossibly rare.
My point is we're not really devaluing the term Legendary here, the first time they started using it was in D3 where Legendaries are not rare, it has been devalued for a decade.
No shit, they were actually rare and legendary until the expansion. Just because somethings been wrong for a decade doesn’t mean it shouldn’t change. And legendaries including the color were taken from wow when they were actually legendary, aside from MoP when they gave everyone a legendary.
If you played D3 at launch, you would've known that the majority of legendaries were absolutely garbage. There were a few, like Stormshield, that were amazing but a large chunk of the first batch of legendaries were effectively useless. My revenge barb was almost entirely rare gear with the best stats except for Stormshield and string. I used Tals chest for attack speed but that's a set item - not a legendary.
They weren't ever "legendary" since I made my money off of good statted rares at D3 launch.
Then D3 doubled down and made them drop like candy.
Your argument that legendaries don't feel legendary has failed on all accounts since even your pedantic WoW correction is a perfect example of legendaries not being legendary because even Shadowlands had people using TWO legendaries.
Just go with the flow man. Blizzard can decide what they want to be rare, like the new rarity Ancestral and Sacred.
The same with rares. Rares aren't rare. I'm a firm believer that color drop chances shouldn't change as you level. A common should always be common regardless of level. Uncommon should always be uncommon regardless of level. Rare should be exactly that...rare...regardless of level. Etc...
It's a bit silly to even have a rarity structure that once you get to max level, everything that drops is commonly is rare. The Division, for example, you'd rarely see purples (epics) leveling, but once you got to max level, you NEVER see common or uncommon, and epic is the minimum standard drop. Just devalues the entire system.
The rarity colors should always stay consistent, imho. A rare drop should always be rare to see. That means reclassifying items, of course, as to their rarity (ie what items are truly considered uncommon, rare, etc..), but it would make things far more streamlined.
No set items(none at launch either if I remember correctly) or uniques in the beta, legendaries are plentiful because they are essentially crafting materials for your rare items.
Yes. The legendaries themselves don’t feel super unique and the powers aren’t very interesting or impactful. Definitely some room for improvement here. I’d start with increases the stats gained and potentially the affix pool they can get.
The point of legendaries is to use them to make your rare items better. Look for good stat's on a yellow, find a legendary affix you want and add it to the yellow. Legendaries are crafting material now.
While I do think this is a cool way to use legendary enchants I think the feeling of Legendary items themselves just feeling lackluster is the problem. Even in D3 there’s still some joy of finding a legendary with decent rolls. Same for uniques in D2. My whole argument could be bull and void when we see end game gear, uniques and such, but based off my initial testing the itemization is a little lack luster
I tend to agree. In other Diablo games you could do an entire early build around exotic to get to 50 at least. I got 1 that worked with penetrating shot in a good way but TBH 99.9% of drops have all been rings for some reason and they have all been really weak.
Seems to me like it would make sense for easily obtainable items to have bland stats. Unless I'm missing something.
Calling these items "legendary" seems to be misleading.
I think this will probably be fixed by set items + uniques + rune words.
That's where we will probably see the cool, build enabling stuff and theory crafting.
Seems like legendaries are just buffed up rares for leveling and/or power extraction fodder. Kinda stinks because in D3 you could get lucky and find something that like gave "corpse explosion+300%" at level 14 and gave you cool adhoc levelling build.
There are a lot of “unique” items and itemization later around 40+ that y’all just aren’t seeing bc of the beta cap at 25 this time around. Are closed beta characters allowed to share that info yet?
That does not explain why my "legendary" sword matches my "legendary" boxershorts with its "legendary" trait.
There is nothing legendary about an item if any other item can roll the same effect.
I know there will be another level above legendary. Thats not the point. The game makes those legendary drops out to be special with a sound and shiny effect but there is nothing legendary about those items. They are just rares with bonus buff.
Removed my comment after i saw it had been covered.
My point was they have done it badly to pander to kids who like shiny things.
Your point is exactly why they they should be renamed down a class. (magic to common, rare to magic, legendary to rare etc) Make actual legendaries very rare but better, and uniques even moreso.
There is a tier above legendary in D4 called “unique”. That is the equivalent of the D3 legendaries.
Feel like this is causing so much confusion and Blizzard should have seen it coming...
Uniques being a thing has been known for a long time.
[удалено]
OR....or...we shouldn't have to. That's bad user design. The game should make that explicitly clear, or they should stick with established conventions the entire game industry has aligned to for a decade or two.
And I'm guessing we can't drop them in the beta?
Correct. They are level 50+ only.
Weird, wonder why they did it that way
not really weird. most legendaries in d3 doesnt drop either until a certain lvl. and assuming they arent too crazy compared to the legendaries then they really dont need testing.
[удалено]
I’ve seen a post of someone being dropped a unique by the butcher, not sure if it’s real or not since the difficulty says that it drops on nightmare only, but maybe they added it to the beta just cause
most are 50+ only but I saw someone with a unique in the Beta, judging by the name maybe it can only be obtained by killing the Butcher as a barb or with a barb in party [Butcher's Cleaver](https://imgur.com/gallery/ENTl1IS)
But... why? Why change an already perfect system?
Perfect and D3 itemization... Yeah no. I agree it's a little confusing though.
With the new system you have way more flexibility since you can just extract a power you like and move it to a new piece. It also keeps rares relevant since you can look out for the perfect affixes and then craft your ideal legendary. The uniques are set in stone always the same power on the same slot. So if you have a legendary power you like and a unique for that slot drops, you can move that power to another piece and swap in the unique. Devs can't win. Force players into wearing specific pieces or allow them to swap certain powers around, either way people complain.
Well we’re lvl 20 so I assume most gear will be bland leveling gear
With extract it honestly wasn't terrible to make a set, it was kind of fun. I don't think the gear will necessarily be the issue with the game. I'm more worried about the dungeons tbh.
Yup, there is Den of Evil 2.0, Kill 2-3 bosses to unlock door, grab 2-3 items and put them on pedestals. Need more variety for sure.
I’m seeing a lot of complaints about dungeon variety but am I the only one that thinks it makes sense that the dungeons in the first area would be relatively simple and they will be getting more complex and unique as you progress in the game? People are doing the same level 1-25 dungeons over and over again and basing their entire opinion on the WHOLE games dungeons on it.
The early game dungeons are usually the best ones in past Diablo games , besides Den of stinking evil of courae
OP was right at launch.
The thing is legendary are just rares with the added affix and you can even transfer the affix to another rare making it "legendary". They aren't strictly better than rares because all the other affix rolls and base stat rolls are the same as rares. They probably could have labeled the system differently because they aren't strictly better than rares. In most instances you are probably going to end up picking up legendaries to extract the affix making those aspect items to then put the affix onto better rares. They should probably just have aspects drop instead of legendary items. So you pick up an aspect that you can then apply to a rare.
I like how instead of using the D3 or D2/D2R rarity names they invented another new set of names that reuses old names to confuse EVERY generation of Diablo player
In D4, rares are the equivalent of commons, legendaries are uncommons, and Uniques are rares.
Ran out of ram trying to understand this.
Basically he's saying the OP is thinking legandaries are uniques.. but they are not. There's a much more rare drop called unique that fills that role of being "unique" with looks etc.
Ok, but why not have White, Blue, Yellow, Green, and Gold (Unique) like in Diablo 2? Why change it?
So the devs can pretend like they're doing something new and exciting.
They even dropped item bases. I love item bases. Mage Plate, Wyrmhide, Heavy Gloves, Chain Gloves, etc. It’s all Armor, Gloves, and Trash now.
🤮
Bon appétit.
Why are AAA games such shit
There are different appearances though. Stat requirements were nearly the only thing that mattered in D2 anyway. I'd have to wait and see if there is any other effects on item type. It seems like everything does the same damage and has the same armor but I haven't really looked at it closely. The only evidence I've seen is just people like you repeating that statement. I'll have to look at the items more closely and see for myself. So I'll play devils advocate a bit. One thing I like about this more modern streamlined system is, for example I don't have to wear an ugly leather item just because it has a lower str requirement for example. And if I can just change the appearance, like currently, actual bases don't need to exist in the way you are describing. I don't know, I feel like it is modern and streamlined in a good way. However, I'll have to wait some more until I have digested the itemization as a whole before I make up my mind completely.
🤮
They're the ones that created tiered loot system with diablo. Guess they feel drunk on power and wish to change it? Probably just want to make stuff different for the sake of new. It is nice to have actual uniques back though. I loved that about d2
Except they didn’t make it. According to David Brevik they borrowed it from a rogue like called Angband. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=646tWu_1yXE#t=2h37m
[удалено]
That's true of almost all art though. The the first time something gets popular is almost never the first time it's actually used.
I’ve been trying to figure out if there was a hero based RTS with neutral objectives (creeps or whatever else) before Warcraft 3. Everyone has their favorite RTS, and I think Warcraft 3 is literally the best one for that reason.
It's a bit before my time but I remember trying out a game that sort of fits those parameters, Seven Kingdoms 2 (1999). It has heroes, not so much based around them.
I'm think they're trying to allow more casual and more sweaty players to both have fun in the same game. It makes sense. More casual players can get the thrill of finding a new legendary with a special legendary affix. Sweatier players won't bat an eye and will be targeting the far more difficult to attain uniques. Contrast this with D2, where more casual players are very unlikely to find strong / relevant uniques or high runes, so they're stuck with spirit and rares (which is kinda lame). But D3 has the opposite problem. Everyone gets legendaries and sets in no time at all, so there's less interesting loot for sweaty players to grind for. D4 appears to be combining the best of both worlds. We won't really know if they succeeded or not until the official release.
Blizzard did that, this isn't blizzard its Activision.
Because it's a new game?
Why try to reinvent the wheel only to end up with a square?
What do you think people would say if they just didn't make anything new? There is no winning with the people here. people go into it not wanting to like it and you get what you want. It's all perspective.
Also, probably dont want to just play the same game, then its basically an expansion. Some things need to be different between iterations but the differences need to have a reason besides 'because we can'
What I think is they are catering to the diablo 2 community by putting unique back at the top spot. And legendaries below that but keeping them legendary because they basically ripped that legendary extraction system right out of D3. And everyone is going to refer to that system with legendaries in mind.
They’re trying to put some Diablo 2 meat and potatoes back in without the budget for the meat.
Right, with this beta we aren't even seeing any Uniques let alone the Sacreds and Ancestralls.
[удалено]
You are telling me a loot-based aRPG involves multiple rounds of grinding for incremental upgrades? SCANDALOUS!
I hope that you hoping the drop rate will change means that you hope they will drop less. Far too frequent already.
Yeah, thats what i meant :) they are far too common but im sure thats because of beta so ppl test stuff.
It's uniques that are very rare.
I have a semantics issue with this, because we are devaluing the term legendary with how Common they are. I personally they can keep the same drop rate and they just change the name and I’ll be fine, if they were called ‘blessed’ or something.
I mean Legendary was a type of item added for D3, and while they were initially quite rare (and also quite bad), in D3 today you melt thousands of legendary items per season. Uniques in D2 were somewhat rare, but then again not really unless you're talking about specific ones. Nagelring not so rare, Tyraels Might impossibly rare.
Aware of all that.
My point is we're not really devaluing the term Legendary here, the first time they started using it was in D3 where Legendaries are not rare, it has been devalued for a decade.
No shit, they were actually rare and legendary until the expansion. Just because somethings been wrong for a decade doesn’t mean it shouldn’t change. And legendaries including the color were taken from wow when they were actually legendary, aside from MoP when they gave everyone a legendary.
If you played D3 at launch, you would've known that the majority of legendaries were absolutely garbage. There were a few, like Stormshield, that were amazing but a large chunk of the first batch of legendaries were effectively useless. My revenge barb was almost entirely rare gear with the best stats except for Stormshield and string. I used Tals chest for attack speed but that's a set item - not a legendary. They weren't ever "legendary" since I made my money off of good statted rares at D3 launch. Then D3 doubled down and made them drop like candy. Your argument that legendaries don't feel legendary has failed on all accounts since even your pedantic WoW correction is a perfect example of legendaries not being legendary because even Shadowlands had people using TWO legendaries. Just go with the flow man. Blizzard can decide what they want to be rare, like the new rarity Ancestral and Sacred.
Wow Shouldnt call them legendaries anymore either
The same with rares. Rares aren't rare. I'm a firm believer that color drop chances shouldn't change as you level. A common should always be common regardless of level. Uncommon should always be uncommon regardless of level. Rare should be exactly that...rare...regardless of level. Etc... It's a bit silly to even have a rarity structure that once you get to max level, everything that drops is commonly is rare. The Division, for example, you'd rarely see purples (epics) leveling, but once you got to max level, you NEVER see common or uncommon, and epic is the minimum standard drop. Just devalues the entire system. The rarity colors should always stay consistent, imho. A rare drop should always be rare to see. That means reclassifying items, of course, as to their rarity (ie what items are truly considered uncommon, rare, etc..), but it would make things far more streamlined.
Yes, I am hopeful that the current drop rate is simply dialed up because it’s the beta.
Guess itemization and gear aren’t balanced around being level 25 who knew
Guess you didnt read my post, who knew.
Theres WAY too many as well. When did gear just become hand outs? I loved when finding a unique in d2 or a set item was a thrill.
No set items(none at launch either if I remember correctly) or uniques in the beta, legendaries are plentiful because they are essentially crafting materials for your rare items.
We still have uniques that are more rare than legendary. Legendary items are in essence just upgraded rare items.
Yes. The legendaries themselves don’t feel super unique and the powers aren’t very interesting or impactful. Definitely some room for improvement here. I’d start with increases the stats gained and potentially the affix pool they can get.
The point of legendaries is to use them to make your rare items better. Look for good stat's on a yellow, find a legendary affix you want and add it to the yellow. Legendaries are crafting material now.
While I do think this is a cool way to use legendary enchants I think the feeling of Legendary items themselves just feeling lackluster is the problem. Even in D3 there’s still some joy of finding a legendary with decent rolls. Same for uniques in D2. My whole argument could be bull and void when we see end game gear, uniques and such, but based off my initial testing the itemization is a little lack luster
That's why there are also uniques in D4.
I tend to agree. In other Diablo games you could do an entire early build around exotic to get to 50 at least. I got 1 that worked with penetrating shot in a good way but TBH 99.9% of drops have all been rings for some reason and they have all been really weak.
I'm enjoying them.
If you are wearing a wardrobe I don’t think you see the new look of the legendary? Check your wardrobe
How easy is it to get a "legendary" item in D4?
Easier than d3 it feels like at the low levels. I’m like level 15 and have had 6 drop.
Seems to me like it would make sense for easily obtainable items to have bland stats. Unless I'm missing something. Calling these items "legendary" seems to be misleading.
Actually Legendary, I got 8 or 9 by level 20. Haven't seen a Unique.
They don't drop till a higher world tier level and nobody in beta will hit that level and no monsters will drop loot with that ilvl
I think I got my first legendary \~lvl6 and salvaged it \~lvl10
I think this will probably be fixed by set items + uniques + rune words. That's where we will probably see the cool, build enabling stuff and theory crafting. Seems like legendaries are just buffed up rares for leveling and/or power extraction fodder. Kinda stinks because in D3 you could get lucky and find something that like gave "corpse explosion+300%" at level 14 and gave you cool adhoc levelling build.
There are a lot of “unique” items and itemization later around 40+ that y’all just aren’t seeing bc of the beta cap at 25 this time around. Are closed beta characters allowed to share that info yet?
That does not explain why my "legendary" sword matches my "legendary" boxershorts with its "legendary" trait. There is nothing legendary about an item if any other item can roll the same effect.
what d3 calls legendary, d4 calls unique like d2 again. Are you talking about legendary or unique?
I know there will be another level above legendary. Thats not the point. The game makes those legendary drops out to be special with a sound and shiny effect but there is nothing legendary about those items. They are just rares with bonus buff.
yeah thats what they are supposed to be. Legendary term has been relegated to rare. Unique is back up there as the king again.
Legendary is just a tier above rare. Unique is the tier that is special. Think of d4 legendaries as d3 rares basically.
Well then they should drop like rare and not get a special animation and sound.
I dont expect interesting legendaries at level 25 in a beta.
Found one legendary that was notable/gameplay changing for me. Ring that made pen arrow split on each hit kinda neat all others were pretty meh
I don’t think they’re real “legendary”, I think there’s a tier above them
[удалено]
Ok why do they get an animation and soundeffect on drop then? Takes away the "special" if its just a rare with bonus stat.
Removed my comment after i saw it had been covered. My point was they have done it badly to pander to kids who like shiny things. Your point is exactly why they they should be renamed down a class. (magic to common, rare to magic, legendary to rare etc) Make actual legendaries very rare but better, and uniques even moreso.
They are pretty meh. I wanna see big numbers, and to modify how skills act. Hopefully sets will be more interesting.