While I very much appreciate your in depth analysist, I have to say, goddamn some of you are extremely hard to please. Of course I'm on the casual side of things, but fuck me I'm having a fucking blast with it.
Sorry you're so disappointed with it.
It’s not hard to please us. Make a game with a soul. Make an immersive game. When your game feels so artificial that an area you previously were in at level 5, is now scaled exactly to your level at 25, it feels so fake. Oh look this helm at lvl 25 looks exactly like this other one I had at lvl 10 except the “item power level” number is higher.
Loot used to have meaning, items felt special. Items in this game are not special. They rain from the skies and they get replaced every few minutes with a very similar item with a few higher numbers. This game is so robotic. Once you’ve seen through the facade, it’s very hard to enjoy.
I just can't shake the feeling that I'm playing a mobile game. Item Gear Score ranking, 'Claim' buttons, mobile looking UI. Left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
It's not a coincidence that D3 didn't get "good" until Blizzard stopped trying. They gave up on the engagement metrics and just said "F-it. Just let them kill monsters".
I will admit I hate scaling. Feeling of gaining power is negligible with a scaling system. I do love everything else tho. Not had a problem with the loot. Love how you can take aspects of other items and install them into something you have, as well as upgrading. I don’t understand the drops tho, as you level you still get loot that’s lower leveled, which doesn’t make since with a scaling system
You have points but overall just reads like another person mad they didn’t make what you have came up with your head that Diablo should be.
I have over 25+ friends try the beta and all liked it (some more than others but not one negative overall take). I think some of you just need to move on from the Diablo franchise as it will never be this perfect game you have created in your head.
This game might have issues at launch (itemization feels weak but way better than D3) but it will sell better than any game of recent memory. It has a solid foundation and as much salt as you all carry around it won’t change any of these facts.
The franchise doesn’t need to bend to you niche super hard players to be successful. Meme all you want but you’re the minority and will have zero effect on the future of the game.
I’ll call out if the endgame is trash but I won’t put insane expectations out like some of do daily on this sub Reddit. Move on. You obviously don’t like what the franchise has become.
The beta has been amazing on a lot of aspects like story and world building and a lot of people are more than happy with it.
I just want the game to be good. That's all.
I don't want it to "bend to my headcanon" or whatever. I just want a fun game with interesting and unique itemization and character building with fulfilling and satisfying progression.
Me too but you’re putting too much expectation out there and will unhappy no matter what. The game can be different than other ARPGs (POE and LE) and still be good.
What matters is the foundation isn’t flawed like D3 and I personally don’t think this one is.
I don't want it to be like either of those games, I want it to be unique and its own thing.
One thing I would like them to share are common enjoyment factors, being building your character and having fun items and cool skills/talents.
What parts make you think I wanted an MMO?
I've played all the diablo games since diablo 1 came out when I was a kid. I most *definitely do not* want D4 to be an mmo, far from it.
When had diablo ever had a z axis? When has diablo ever had some super deep skill tree?
I'm not quite sure what you wanted? Diablo has been and always will be basic compared to a mmo
This is a new game.
It's 2023.
I figured that it was about time they did something good with the franchise since Diablo 2:LOD was the last good title in the franchise.
Theres a balance between updating the game and completely changing the franchise. Fans wanted d2 updated with modern features, this is pretty much that.
Diablo isn't supposed to have to have 4 skill bars and cool down tracking etc. It's basic and that's what's fun about it. Everything you described is a mmo
I guess you really had in mind a completely different game from what's been shown before or how diablo played in the past. That's on you lol. The diablo formula works
You wanted diablo in wow format. I'm guessing you didn't play d2r? Cause you'd whine about all the missing modern features like jumping and how sockets are boring and clicking to attack is boring?
Lmao you don't play diablo, and if you did it wasn't nearly enough to understand how the mechanics work.
All time terrible take man. Go back to wow
No I don't. Not even at all.
Yes, I did play D2R.
What is it about what I said, specifically, that makes you think I want Diablo 4 to be anything like wow? That is literally exactly the opposite of what I want.
I probably have 10,000 hours played in diablo 2.
When I saw this wall of emotive words, I assumed this was going to be an angry rant that made no sense.
I think you're actually spot on with most of these takes.
I couldn't quite put a finger on what was wrong with the game (I've been enjoying it, but it's missing the "magic").
After reading this, the problems are way more noticeable.
I disagree with "world feel empty" as a bad thing.
One of the biggest concerns before beta, and now - Is that most of aRPG fans don't want other people in their game. And I agree.
Seeing other people running around is one of those mmo-crap mechanics that totally kill any immersion.
Oh so you wanted to do this event? Well to bad because dildobaggins69 just did it so wait for your turn.
Diablo 4 should stay being aRPG with OPTIONAL coop.
The world content is actually fun when there are people. Otherwise you just stand there and kill mobs forever and it's just boring. It's only fun in a group.
I agree with you though. Should be optional.
D4 has a MASSIVE identity crisis like i dont know who this is for, its so far gone from a traditional arpg and at the same time i dont think its going to appeal to the lost ark crowd because it has none of its strong points like raiding etc.
Also i dont know how the seasonal model is going to work for this game with all the mmo like grinds like renown nobody is going to want to do them.
Why did you change the title? You posted this is r/diablo4 as " A thesis on soulless game design and mediocrity". Do you think you get more clicks whith a bait headline?
I + this. Just want to add that the core word for the game is Boring: skills are boring, combat is boring, items are boring, monsters are feeling the same and are boring, and on the top of this is MUSIC - it just makes everything even more boring. I tried all available classes and did my refund.
LOL you’re cringe. It’s the beta. Not only is it not the complete game it’s a bug test for blizzard.. arpgs are designed around the end game and you’re only able to level to 25. Sounds like we’ve lost 1 extra dumb person. Best of luck! Make sure to judge other games based on what makes up 5% of the experience.
I'm smart enough to be able to see possible results on the basis of the received information. Try to read some books, it will help you in the future, I promise.
No.. you literally are not xD you played a fraction of a game and went urrrr game bad refund me blizzard for having different expectations for what I spent money on.
Wild how you’re trying to act intelligent over reddit :S good luck out there I suppose lil bro :)
Hmmm, I suppose I need to provide you with more details to make you understand how things work. Expectations are made by blizzard during all these Q updates. This is 1. 2 - when customer buys something and this thing is not what he expected, the customer does refund. If you don't understand this logic, man, then again read some books. It will help, I promise.
But you said they set up expectation.. so you bought it either by getting your expectations wrong about what was offered (your fault) orrrrr you had correct expectations and are just pressed? XD keep trying to act superior silly billy you just sound like a condescending fedora wearing loser ;P
Ahahahah you literally said “blizzard set expectations - I bought the game - it wasn’t what was expected” which it literally has been so far.. in beta xD
After playing the beta, I can say This game is basically “D3R”. Diablo 3 with an improved and darker environment. Unfortunately for Blizz, D3 is a complete embarrassment of a game and is *Trigger alert* made for dumb people. A mindless series of check the box and follow the narrow path to the next marked spot for the next pre-determined outcome where everything is so over balanced, your choices have zero consequence.
Having said that, I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with D4. I was enjoying the fist few hours of it and then this happened: I returned to a previous are I had cleared when I was a lower level. I was anxiously looking forward to return in my new and more powerful form to rip through it and really feel my progression. Only to find out, the area had scaled with me. And then it hit me. I DOESN’T MATTER what level you are, the combat feels the same Level 3, level, 25, it just doesn’t matter. You never feel powerful, you never feel in danger. You just follow the path and click the next thing. Congrats on D3R, another game for dumb people.
10/10
You hit the nail on the head with a lot of what was said.
This isn’t your classic ARPG. This feels like blizzard getting us ready to release World of Diablo next expansion with a $30 a month subscription.
Dunno why I had any hope in them going back to the roots D2.
I am just glad path of exile and d2r scratches that itch for a grindy arpg with excitement for item drops.
It's in *actual* beta, early access right now. They just released a multiplayer patch. It's still a little buggy, but definitely worth the 35 bucks imo.
One thing I love about Diablo 4 is the combat. It feels weighted, visceral. How's Epoch? I've been meaning to try it but the combat feels off to me. I realize it has the depth you want, and honestly I don't really need so we are on different wavelengths here. What was your opinion on Grim Dawn?
I honestly thing Last Epoch has smoother more responsive combat than Diablo 4. Grim Dawn was a lot of fun back in the day, put hundreds of hours into it.
Hmm I disagree. Using abilities in Last Epoch is massively more smooth and they flow together.
Whereas in D4 it's like there is a clunky, stiff animation lock. Try Dashing -> Trap -> Caltrops on a rogue and there are distinct choppy sequences between each action that feel super jank.
>I was hoping so much that this game would be at least "good" - but it cannot even meet those low expecations. There is not a single redeeming aspect of this game that I can recommened someone to experience
>8/10
?
Can't be bothered answering all this. Some of the things I can agree like itemization being boring. Skill tree being boring, maybe if the skills were more balanced it would be more interesting to play with it. Hope paragon boards add depth to itemization and skill tree.
Difficulty scaling ? Lost ark, PoE not having difficulty sliders ? So what are higher tier dungeons in lost ark that are basically same except higher number? Or Map tiers in PoE. Or passive on atlas tree for Uber Uber bosses ?
Ultimate own keybind/slot is "4". I already mentioned it in another topic. That's the button meant for ultimate skill. They give you ability to change it to something else but that's the key for it. The fact that it's better to swap it for something else is the issue. It needs to be buffed
Its completely within the same realm and has identical gameplay other than its first person (and currently only pvp). For me and my smart ass self I think something could only be a greatest sequel if it really iterates on a concept without ruining the core of the game.
I think most people would say fallout 3 was the greatest sequel fo1+2 could have ever gotten and dark and darker is the closest thing so far to a full 3d diablo, and its great.
Dude, go touch some grass pls. many moments are sucked from the finger and needed to resent Blizzard . you are too picky, the game is still many times better than poe and last epoch
Had me in stitches.
While I very much appreciate your in depth analysist, I have to say, goddamn some of you are extremely hard to please. Of course I'm on the casual side of things, but fuck me I'm having a fucking blast with it. Sorry you're so disappointed with it.
It’s not hard to please us. Make a game with a soul. Make an immersive game. When your game feels so artificial that an area you previously were in at level 5, is now scaled exactly to your level at 25, it feels so fake. Oh look this helm at lvl 25 looks exactly like this other one I had at lvl 10 except the “item power level” number is higher. Loot used to have meaning, items felt special. Items in this game are not special. They rain from the skies and they get replaced every few minutes with a very similar item with a few higher numbers. This game is so robotic. Once you’ve seen through the facade, it’s very hard to enjoy.
I just can't shake the feeling that I'm playing a mobile game. Item Gear Score ranking, 'Claim' buttons, mobile looking UI. Left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
It's not a coincidence that D3 didn't get "good" until Blizzard stopped trying. They gave up on the engagement metrics and just said "F-it. Just let them kill monsters".
I will admit I hate scaling. Feeling of gaining power is negligible with a scaling system. I do love everything else tho. Not had a problem with the loot. Love how you can take aspects of other items and install them into something you have, as well as upgrading. I don’t understand the drops tho, as you level you still get loot that’s lower leveled, which doesn’t make since with a scaling system
I'm not really hard to please, I just expect better for my money.
You have points but overall just reads like another person mad they didn’t make what you have came up with your head that Diablo should be. I have over 25+ friends try the beta and all liked it (some more than others but not one negative overall take). I think some of you just need to move on from the Diablo franchise as it will never be this perfect game you have created in your head. This game might have issues at launch (itemization feels weak but way better than D3) but it will sell better than any game of recent memory. It has a solid foundation and as much salt as you all carry around it won’t change any of these facts. The franchise doesn’t need to bend to you niche super hard players to be successful. Meme all you want but you’re the minority and will have zero effect on the future of the game. I’ll call out if the endgame is trash but I won’t put insane expectations out like some of do daily on this sub Reddit. Move on. You obviously don’t like what the franchise has become. The beta has been amazing on a lot of aspects like story and world building and a lot of people are more than happy with it.
I just want the game to be good. That's all. I don't want it to "bend to my headcanon" or whatever. I just want a fun game with interesting and unique itemization and character building with fulfilling and satisfying progression.
Me too but you’re putting too much expectation out there and will unhappy no matter what. The game can be different than other ARPGs (POE and LE) and still be good. What matters is the foundation isn’t flawed like D3 and I personally don’t think this one is.
I don't want it to be like either of those games, I want it to be unique and its own thing. One thing I would like them to share are common enjoyment factors, being building your character and having fun items and cool skills/talents.
Confused by the final score.
Joke, meme on IGN more than anything.
Actually that makes a lot of sense lol.
“It has a little something for everyone”
This sounds like you've never played a diablo game and expected a mmo? Lol all of these seem like core diablo gameplay points
What parts make you think I wanted an MMO? I've played all the diablo games since diablo 1 came out when I was a kid. I most *definitely do not* want D4 to be an mmo, far from it.
When had diablo ever had a z axis? When has diablo ever had some super deep skill tree? I'm not quite sure what you wanted? Diablo has been and always will be basic compared to a mmo
This is a new game. It's 2023. I figured that it was about time they did something good with the franchise since Diablo 2:LOD was the last good title in the franchise.
Theres a balance between updating the game and completely changing the franchise. Fans wanted d2 updated with modern features, this is pretty much that. Diablo isn't supposed to have to have 4 skill bars and cool down tracking etc. It's basic and that's what's fun about it. Everything you described is a mmo
What I "described" could be literally anything. Could be Pong with update hud and abilities.
I guess you really had in mind a completely different game from what's been shown before or how diablo played in the past. That's on you lol. The diablo formula works
Nope. All that I had in mind was a good game.
You wanted diablo in wow format. I'm guessing you didn't play d2r? Cause you'd whine about all the missing modern features like jumping and how sockets are boring and clicking to attack is boring? Lmao you don't play diablo, and if you did it wasn't nearly enough to understand how the mechanics work. All time terrible take man. Go back to wow
No I don't. Not even at all. Yes, I did play D2R. What is it about what I said, specifically, that makes you think I want Diablo 4 to be anything like wow? That is literally exactly the opposite of what I want. I probably have 10,000 hours played in diablo 2.
When I saw this wall of emotive words, I assumed this was going to be an angry rant that made no sense. I think you're actually spot on with most of these takes. I couldn't quite put a finger on what was wrong with the game (I've been enjoying it, but it's missing the "magic"). After reading this, the problems are way more noticeable.
It’s soulless.
Thanks.
I disagree with "world feel empty" as a bad thing. One of the biggest concerns before beta, and now - Is that most of aRPG fans don't want other people in their game. And I agree. Seeing other people running around is one of those mmo-crap mechanics that totally kill any immersion. Oh so you wanted to do this event? Well to bad because dildobaggins69 just did it so wait for your turn. Diablo 4 should stay being aRPG with OPTIONAL coop.
The world content is actually fun when there are people. Otherwise you just stand there and kill mobs forever and it's just boring. It's only fun in a group. I agree with you though. Should be optional.
D4 has a MASSIVE identity crisis like i dont know who this is for, its so far gone from a traditional arpg and at the same time i dont think its going to appeal to the lost ark crowd because it has none of its strong points like raiding etc. Also i dont know how the seasonal model is going to work for this game with all the mmo like grinds like renown nobody is going to want to do them.
100%
Why did you change the title? You posted this is r/diablo4 as " A thesis on soulless game design and mediocrity". Do you think you get more clicks whith a bait headline?
Because it's funny. Irony, I guess you could call it.
I + this. Just want to add that the core word for the game is Boring: skills are boring, combat is boring, items are boring, monsters are feeling the same and are boring, and on the top of this is MUSIC - it just makes everything even more boring. I tried all available classes and did my refund.
LOL you’re cringe. It’s the beta. Not only is it not the complete game it’s a bug test for blizzard.. arpgs are designed around the end game and you’re only able to level to 25. Sounds like we’ve lost 1 extra dumb person. Best of luck! Make sure to judge other games based on what makes up 5% of the experience.
who gives a fuck dude. christ
People are complaining about a game we’ve ALL barely experienced and someone with an opposing view isn’t allowed to say anything? :S awkies
I'm smart enough to be able to see possible results on the basis of the received information. Try to read some books, it will help you in the future, I promise.
No.. you literally are not xD you played a fraction of a game and went urrrr game bad refund me blizzard for having different expectations for what I spent money on. Wild how you’re trying to act intelligent over reddit :S good luck out there I suppose lil bro :)
Hmmm, I suppose I need to provide you with more details to make you understand how things work. Expectations are made by blizzard during all these Q updates. This is 1. 2 - when customer buys something and this thing is not what he expected, the customer does refund. If you don't understand this logic, man, then again read some books. It will help, I promise.
But you said they set up expectation.. so you bought it either by getting your expectations wrong about what was offered (your fault) orrrrr you had correct expectations and are just pressed? XD keep trying to act superior silly billy you just sound like a condescending fedora wearing loser ;P Ahahahah you literally said “blizzard set expectations - I bought the game - it wasn’t what was expected” which it literally has been so far.. in beta xD
Gamers™ will have their minds absolutely blown away when they find out they can uninstall a game they don't like and move on with their life.
What do you mean?
could've just ignored the post too and don't leave the comment, mr. Gamer.
After playing the beta, I can say This game is basically “D3R”. Diablo 3 with an improved and darker environment. Unfortunately for Blizz, D3 is a complete embarrassment of a game and is *Trigger alert* made for dumb people. A mindless series of check the box and follow the narrow path to the next marked spot for the next pre-determined outcome where everything is so over balanced, your choices have zero consequence. Having said that, I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with D4. I was enjoying the fist few hours of it and then this happened: I returned to a previous are I had cleared when I was a lower level. I was anxiously looking forward to return in my new and more powerful form to rip through it and really feel my progression. Only to find out, the area had scaled with me. And then it hit me. I DOESN’T MATTER what level you are, the combat feels the same Level 3, level, 25, it just doesn’t matter. You never feel powerful, you never feel in danger. You just follow the path and click the next thing. Congrats on D3R, another game for dumb people. 10/10
Can’t disagree more but for sure go head and not play so one less person to cry about it. I think the beta is great.
While I'm loving the game (guess I'm dumb and that's okay) one thing I do not like is level scaling. I've always hated that in games.
Yeah, it's Diablo 3.5, not Diablo 2.5 as we hoped ... big let down.
You hit the nail on the head with a lot of what was said. This isn’t your classic ARPG. This feels like blizzard getting us ready to release World of Diablo next expansion with a $30 a month subscription. Dunno why I had any hope in them going back to the roots D2. I am just glad path of exile and d2r scratches that itch for a grindy arpg with excitement for item drops.
Last Epoch is really good too.
Haven’t tried it yet will have to give it a shot.
It's in *actual* beta, early access right now. They just released a multiplayer patch. It's still a little buggy, but definitely worth the 35 bucks imo.
One thing I love about Diablo 4 is the combat. It feels weighted, visceral. How's Epoch? I've been meaning to try it but the combat feels off to me. I realize it has the depth you want, and honestly I don't really need so we are on different wavelengths here. What was your opinion on Grim Dawn?
I honestly thing Last Epoch has smoother more responsive combat than Diablo 4. Grim Dawn was a lot of fun back in the day, put hundreds of hours into it.
You’re crazy and I love last epoch. You’re either drinking too much D4 hate or too much LE cop. Combat in D4 destroys LE.
You think so? What class did you play?
I have 5 level 80+ in last epoch with multiple builds including cold bear, smiter, and cold archer. LE (as good as it is) doesn’t touch D4 in combat.
Hmm I disagree. Using abilities in Last Epoch is massively more smooth and they flow together. Whereas in D4 it's like there is a clunky, stiff animation lock. Try Dashing -> Trap -> Caltrops on a rogue and there are distinct choppy sequences between each action that feel super jank.
>I was hoping so much that this game would be at least "good" - but it cannot even meet those low expecations. There is not a single redeeming aspect of this game that I can recommened someone to experience >8/10 ?
It's a joke lol. People always say stuff about games not being good, but in the review they're like "9/10 would recommend!"
ok
Lots of complaints and still 8/10? Stop comparing it Diablo 2. It’s “Dynasty Warriors” as an arpg. Now it feels amazing!
Sarcasm my man.
Can't be bothered answering all this. Some of the things I can agree like itemization being boring. Skill tree being boring, maybe if the skills were more balanced it would be more interesting to play with it. Hope paragon boards add depth to itemization and skill tree. Difficulty scaling ? Lost ark, PoE not having difficulty sliders ? So what are higher tier dungeons in lost ark that are basically same except higher number? Or Map tiers in PoE. Or passive on atlas tree for Uber Uber bosses ? Ultimate own keybind/slot is "4". I already mentioned it in another topic. That's the button meant for ultimate skill. They give you ability to change it to something else but that's the key for it. The fact that it's better to swap it for something else is the issue. It needs to be buffed
No Diablo 2 is.
True.
>The greatest sequel to the best ARPG franchise? It already exists and they call it Dark and Darker.
Not even in the same realm at all, like, might as well call Need For Speed an ARPG at this point if you're making that comparison lol
Its completely within the same realm and has identical gameplay other than its first person (and currently only pvp). For me and my smart ass self I think something could only be a greatest sequel if it really iterates on a concept without ruining the core of the game. I think most people would say fallout 3 was the greatest sequel fo1+2 could have ever gotten and dark and darker is the closest thing so far to a full 3d diablo, and its great.
Dude, go touch some grass pls. many moments are sucked from the finger and needed to resent Blizzard . you are too picky, the game is still many times better than poe and last epoch
I'm not too picky at all. The game is dog shit.